Is my driver’s license a Real ID? Is Real ID an underhanded deal still ongoing?

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I thought Real ID was dead. Then the other day I went to get my drivers license renewed. Something new happened. As they took my photo they told me I had to keep my mouth closed.
Perhaps I should have refused to do so?

Usually I would have. For some reason I did not. [Maybe it was because, shockingly they had an attractive not-overweight blonde making the request, and I thought of you all paying and going along on these kinds of matters?]

In the past I got my drivers license on the spot, now however; they issued a temporary one and they mail the longer term one. I imagine that’s partly to verify a person’s home address.

Then I read this and wonder if I should have avoided getting a drivers license this year?:

Biometric Database of All Adult Americans Hidden in Immigration Reform

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/05/immigration-reform-dossiers/

I kind of feel creep’ed out by the whole thing, as if I’ve been misled, cataloged, branded like a cow, taken advantage of, and been used for someone else’s gain.

Is it just the particular state I’m in, or is Real ID going live everywhere, with or without the ok of The People and before any kind of vote?

[… As if voting mattered.]

Did I just make a huge mistake?

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67 COMMENTS

  1. If your know your new drivers license will have an RFID chip in it, just jump through the hoops like a good little sheep but when you get home, pop it in the microwave for 15 seconds or so. That’ll kill the chip deader than dead but leave the plastic readable.

    • 1. How long before that counts as defacing government property?
      2. How long before “they” decide it’s a real problem, that by being “invisible” to the ominpresent RFID scanners that I’m certain are planned for, you’re hiding the REAL threats you’re involved in? If you had nothing to hide, after all, you wouldn’t be killing the chip – it’s all for YOUR safety…

      I need to invest in lead.

  2. “other states are giving DLs out to illegal mexicans with NO documents at all, you show up, blabber in spanish, and they hand you a DL”

    If so, learn Spanish, get several.

  3. Georgia now requires a fingerprint, a birth cert, a SS card, and proof of address
    like a bank statement,
    all of which the state SCANS and COPIES! they dont just look at it and had it back to you, so in a few years they will have, a digital picture of your face, a copy of your SS card, a copy of your birth cert, all in one handy computer file.

    meanwhile Oregon, Indiana, and a couple other states are giving DLs out to illegal mexicans with NO documents at all, you show up, blabber in spanish, and they hand you a DL, no questions asked.

    Wonder whos gonna be the first english speaking white person to walk in, be denied a no doc DL and sue the state??

    • “meanwhile Oregon, Indiana, and a couple other states are giving DLs out to illegal mexicans with NO documents at all,”

      About 10 years ago, I was in line at the DMV behind a Spanish speaking immigrant who had applied for a DL, showing his visa and other documents. The lady behind the counter asked him if he wanted to register to vote at the same time. He didn’t understand and she pointed him to the line for photos.

      I told her she couldn’t get him to register to vote, because he wasn’t a citizen. She said she was just doing as she was told to do. Sheesh.

      Either she was a idiot who thought she was supposed to offer “motor voter” access to anyone, regardless of citizenship, or she had been instructed to offer it to aliens. One is as bad as the other, IMO.

  4. Declaration of Separation – To The Governments & People of Earth:
    http://billstclair.com/separation.html

    The Second Realm: We have no friends on Facebook.

    http://anarplex.net/hosted/files/two_realms.html
    https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/secondrealm/secondrealm.pdf
    https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/TheMaxims.pdf
    https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/Toward_A_Private_Digital_Economy/index.html
    https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/A_Lodging_of_Wayfaring_Men.pdf
    https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/aoa.html
    http://anarplex.net/hosted/files/agora.txt
    https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/secondrealm/blog_post.html
    https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/Alongside_Night_free30.pdf
    https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/last_trumpet/LTP.pdf
    http://anarplex.net/hosted/files/0007_End_All_Wars.pdf
    http://anarplex.net/hosted/files/0008_UnemployedGuide.pdf
    http://anarplex.net/hosted/files/fiftythings.html
    http://dailyanarchist.com/2011/06/21/how-and-why-to-get-to-silk-road/
    http://anarplex.net/hosted/files/buildingliberty.html

    5 values make up the cultural code of the Trans-National Vanguard. They are the core principles we implement in our lives together. Things we build on that guide our actions internally and externally.

    Our members subscribe to them, and they are mandatory for peaceful interaction with us. However, we do not expect them to be normative for others.

    NON-AGGRESSION
    We never start aggression against other people and property. But we are able and willing to defend ourselves.

    PRIVACY
    The individual has all rights to defend his data and information about him against spying and nosing-around. We so highly value privacy that many of our members have been leading entrepreneurs and activists in the field of “Privacy Enhancing Technologies”.

    PRIVATE PROPERTY
    Being able to plan, maintain and build up resources is fundamental for a peaceful survival. Only when clarity about the deciding authority concerning physical property exists, can people focus on the things that are of most importance to them.

    INDEPENDENCE
    Unnecessary inter-dependence is destabilizing societies and markets. Independence is what makes us more resilient against the changing tides of the future.

    OBSERVANCE
    Agreements are to be kept. Contracts are not to be broken. Only then, peaceful and reliable relationships can develop for mutual benefit.

    #darknets, #crypto-tribes, #cryptoanarchists

    • Fine stuff, Tor; I especially love the “Declaration of Separation”.

      I support it 100%–though I fall far short in living it.

      It goes back to the interminable “debate” with Handsome Jim re: paying income tax.

      Although morally, ethically, intellectually, spiritually I declare governments null and ineffectual…they still have the power of death over me.

      So I disgustedly render up as much as I absolutely have to to continue the most important pursuits in my life.

      What’s the solution?

      It’s to get as many OTHER people to embrace the precepts of the Declaration of Independence, and the Declaration of Separation, as we possibly can.

      Because then acting on it will become possible.

      • Or we go back to culling (to be more explicit this time) THEIR herd. In all nations, at all times, by whatever means are available.

        • “Or we go back to culling (to be more explicit this time) THEIR herd.”

          You seem to be in a hurry to get somebody to join you. Tell you what, strike “we”, insert “I”, then go show us how it’s done.

          • Still workin’ on that part. 😉
            Once it DOES start – I won’t be able to tell anyone, though.

            “Crazy, not stupid” ring a bell?

          • “Once it DOES start – I won’t be able to tell anyone, though.”

            Why tell anyone now? If I’m going to sucker punch a bigger man, I don’t warn him with a threat.

            I wouldn’t use another man’s blog like you’re doing and draw heat onto him. He doesn’t deserve to be used like that.

          • Ed, I threatened a guy once and didn’t mean it. I won’t ever threaten anyone else again and not mean it and won’t threaten him unless I mean to kill him and right at the end of the punchline before he can take it all in. Just kidding. I won’t threaten anyone. That has nothing to do with what I might do.

      • Or;

        Capt. Nately: Don’t you have any principles?

        Old man in whorehouse: Of course not!

        Capt. Nately: No morality?

        Old man in whorehouse: I’m a very moral man, and Italy is a very moral country. That’s why we will certainly come out on top again if we succeed in being defeated.

        Capt. Nately: You talk like a madman.

        Old man in whorehouse: But I live like a sane one. I was a fascist when Mussolini was on top. Now that he has been deposed, I am anti-fascist. When the Germans were here, I was fanatically pro-German. Now I’m fanatically pro-American. You’ll find no more loyal partisan in all of Italy than myself.

        Capt. Nately: You’re a shameful opportunist! What you don’t understand is that it’s better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

        Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It’s better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.

        Capt. Nately: How do you know?

        Old man in whorehouse: Because I am 107-years-old. How old are you?

        Capt. Nately: I’ll be 20 in January.

        Old man in whorehouse: If you live.

        🙂

      • The Ten Sovereign Precepts of the Self

        Self-Ownership

        I. The title of ownership is within myself. There is no written record anywhere that confers or detracts anything from my fee simple absolute title to my own life.

        Self-Authority

        II. The locus of authority is within myself. There is no official or building anywhere that I acknowledge as rightfully exercising any kind of prior restraint or restrictive covenants on my sovereign mind, body, and person.

        Self-Assertion(Self-Preservation)

        III. I alone must be the cause that gives the effect of asserting and retaining my individual rights of Life, Liberty, and Property.

        Self-Restraint(Self-Control)

        IV. I likewise grant and recognize each individual to be the exclusive Proprietor of his or her own Existence and of all products of that Existence, holding no Obligation binding among Individuals excepting those to which they voluntarily and explicitly consent;

        Self-Denial

        V. I swear by my life and freedom that under no Circumstances will I acknowledge any Liberty to initiate Force against another Person, and will instead defend the inalienable Right of Individuals to resist Coercion employing whatever Means are proven necessary;

        Self-Respect

        VI. I promise to hold inviolable any Relationships among Individuals which are totally voluntary, and that any Relationships not fully and mutually agreeable will therefore be considered empty and invalid;

        Self-Optimization

        VII. I promise to conform to the idea that Rights are neither collective nor additive but rather individual in Character. That two individuals will have no more Rights than one. Nor will two million nor two billion. Nor will any Group possess Rights in Excess of those belonging to its individual members;

        Self-Acceptance

        VIII. I pledge to maintain these Principles without Respect to any person’s Race, Nationality, Gender, Sexuality, Age, or System of Beliefs, and hold that any Entity or Association, however constituted, which acts to contravene these principles by initiation of Force – or Threat of Force – will have forfeited any Right to exist or be acknowleged.

        IX. Self-Sufficiency

        Upon unanimous consent of myself and all other Members or Inhabitants of my Household, Neighborhood, Village, Association or Territory, I further stipulate that this Agreement shall supersede all existing governmental Documents or Usages previously pertinent. I declare that all other Constitutions, Charters, Acts, Laws, Statutes, Regulations, or Ordinances contradictory or destructive to the Ends which I have here expressed will be considered null and void, and that this Declaration and Covenant, being the Property of myself and any other Signatories, will not be Subject to Interpretation excepting unless it should be agreed and consented to by myself and all other parties involved.

        Self-Evident

        X. I hold that this is merely a restatement of the natural and long acknowledged higher law. That this higher law can be deduced and elucidated upon consideration of our creation and the natural place of man in the natural order of that creation.

      • meth, there is this to consider, your considerations too I’d bet:
        “Only the IRS can attach 100% of a tax debtor’s wages and/or property.
        Only the IRS can invade the privacy of a citizen without court process of any kind.
        Only the IRS can seize property without a court order.
        Only the IRS can force a citizen to try his case in a special court governed by the IRS.
        Only the IRS can compel the production of documents, records, and other materials without a court case being in existence.
        Only the IRS can with impunity publish the details of a citizens debt.
        Only the IRS can legally, without a court order, subject citizens to electronic surveillance.
        Only the IRS can force waiver of statute of limitations and other citizen’s rights through the threat of Arbitrary assesment.
        Only the IRS uses extralegal coercion. Threats to witnesses to examine their taxes regularly produces whatever evidence the IRS dictates.
        Only the IRS is free to violate a written agreement with a citizen.
        Only the IRS uses reprisals against citizen and public officials alike.
        Only the IRS can take property on the basis of conjecture.
        Only the IRS is free to maintain lists of citizen guilty of no crime for the purpose of harassing and monitoring them.
        Only the IRS envelops all citizens.
        Only the IRS publicly admits that it’s purpose is to instill fear in the citizenry as a technique of performing it’s function.”
        — George V. Hansen
        (1930-) US Congressman (R-ID)

        Reprisals, sure enough.

    • What about those of us who believe we have already been aggressed against?
      An analogy would be Agent Orange used on our Vietnam troops (vets). Or Gulf War Syndrome, which it has been posited was due to “innoculations” pre-deployment.
      Etc…

      Stealing private property thourgh abuse of eminent domain? EPA deciding what you can and cannot do on your land? Arrested for indecent exposure, in your own home, because someone cut through YOUR yard? Killed for having a gun in your hand when the police break down your door at 3 AM?

      I could keep going, but I think the list of pretty long and I know it’s heinous, and more than the colonists endured back in 1770s. But the men then had their balls, most of us these days have been gelded…

      • “But the men then had their balls, most of us these days have been gelded…”

        I guess you still have yours, so show us what you’ve done lately.

        • To be honest, just staying alive. (No points there, I agree.)
          OTOH, if I’d single-handedly created the means to clean up the country, OpSec would mandate I STFU about it anyway. 😉

          There’s a plan for an armed march to DC, starting in Arlington, IIRC. Guy doing it is likely either (or both) a kook or a plant – but we’re really at the point where we MUST do something. Too many people seem happy to live on their knees.

          I see no point in working 9-5 (and often more, in IT), and have the money out the door before it’s even hit your bank account.

          • Actually DowmshiftFast5to1, I posted:

            “Maybe if they marched with painted plywood cutouts of their own guns and screamed through the White House windows: “Is THIS how you expect us to defend ourselves and our country?”, might get the message across. But someone might come up with a better chant ;)”

            I haven’t head any “upstage by fake gun” rumour, but probably because I been a bit preoccupied. Lemme know if you discover anything like this. Might be good to slam their brakes on if possible 🙂

  5. 19 States have “Real IDs” – Alabama, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, Maryland, Nebraska, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

    In Fall 2013, the DHS will issue a schedule with deadlines, beyond which you won’t be able to use non-compliant state IDs for federal purposes such as flying on commercial flights, etc.

    http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/transport/count-down-to-real-id.aspx

  6. Given enough time and complacency by the politically correct clovers, we’ll all be running like Tom Cruise (please tell me if I’m using foul language) in Minority Report.

    The advent of computers with digital storage and networking have been a boon to us average sheeples. Gubberment’s been a bit slower on the takeup, but as we’ve already seen fixed speed cams with plate-recog tech automagically compressing, encrypting and sending by radio comms the image, including the date, time and serial number of the device that captured it to “HQ”, where another computer takes over and, once again automagically sends the bill, all the while fully expecting you to survive your “speedy” trip home to receive it!

    We also have point-to-point cams here that track your time between cams and ping you if your time was too short according to THEIR math re speed limit.

    Human operators are only required if there’s a prob with reading the plate, where (and this has been proven to happen MANY times here in Oz) if a letter or number was too hard to make out, the fine was sent to those (more than one) that the character sorta matched. The same thing happens when it’s unclear which car was the offender. ALWAYS check the photo before court. They often make mistakes – and lie about it.

    That’s just ONE example where tech is gonna close in on our freedoms.

    On the fingerprint stuff, you don’t need to do a week of bricklaying to rub them off, just rub your hands on the concrete for a bit before you go in. They might be rough for a while, but it’s shitloads better than them having a magic “key” to your ID.

    Maybe you could even try a thin layer of PVA woodglue that goes transparent when dry. It’s water-based so it only takes a few minutes and due to the sweat on your hands, remains largely pliable like a glove.

    On facial recog, they measure nose to eye, eye to eye, mouth to eye, nose to chin and many other parameters. That’s why you have to keep your mouth closed. It’s not a perfect system. You can try lowering your jaw with your mouth closed to change just one parameter. If you can clench certain muscles around your head to change the way the skin hangs – like wiggling your ears – I can do it but it takes practice for many.

    Then again, maybe front up like a burn victim covered in a stocking or grow a full-face beard some months before the photo. One thing’s for sure, the tech ain’t perfect and might never be, but in the meantime there are ways to thwart it, such as the Right to privacy.

    They say you MUST have a “driver’s” licence and you MUST apply. We know that all law dictionaries define “driving” as a paid profession, otherwise it’s “travelling”. What many don’t know, is that Black’s law dictionary equates “must” with “may”. What you’re doing by “applying” is begging to be let into their gang and you submit to their rules.

    No man can be forced to beg and there is NO valid law or Act in existence that specifically and unequivocally repealed everyone’s Right to travel in the personal conveyance of the day, since the Magna Carta came into force in 1215! If they want to argue THAT, tell them to point to the VALID legislation that proves otherwise.

    Law must be written – it cannot be inferred nor implied.

    If I sound a little crazy, remember this:

    “When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.”

    Sorry about the long post 😉 /rant

    • Nice rant, ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N.

      There are illustrations on here showing how to beat facial recognition with makeup, looks like something from Blade Runner:

      Fool Facial Recognition Technology

      http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/rounds1.1.1.html

      Also, I got one of those camera red light running tickets in the mail once for a car I had sold, the plates were at the bottom of my toolbox when the ‘crime’ occurred. I guess they were just guessing?

      • Interesting. They couldn’t have been guessing – I reckon the plates were all legally swapped but they fuckered up on the records – something like phone companies do all the time 😉

        Were plates on it in the photo?

        • There was no photo sent, just a ticket.

          Not sure how they could have messed up the records, even If (a big IF) it was the same car.

          I’m 100% certain, but I doubt very much it was the same car.

          On the plus side, didn’t have to go to court about it to straighten it out. Just a phone call straitened it out. Which leads me to believe they were guessing. I don’t know what the deal was on their end.

  7. Maybe we should start packing some cotton in our cheeks like Marlon Brando did in The Godfather before our next “photo shoot.” I don’t know if that would screw uo your biometric geometry enough or not. Might be worth a try though.

    Speaking of cameras, an acquaintance of mine is a gun dealer. He was recently audited by the Bureau of Arson, Treason, Falsehood and Extermination (remember Waco?). He’s a small dealer that does most of his business at…GASP!…gun shows. He said he’s been audited annually (or did he say anally?) for the last three years. But this year they photographed his bound book. You don’t suppose they’re building a backdoor database of gun buyers do you? Naw. Our fine “public servants” wouldn’t do that to us. After all, it would be un-Constitutional…

    • It’s national law they can’t take the FORM out of the shop….
      No one said they couldn’t take the INFORMATION….

      More and more I wonder if Hitchiker’s guide had it right WRT how the human race formed: Worthless cast-offs of some alien race trying to better themselves. They bettered themselves by throwing away the lousy DNA in their non-productive citizens, for those who don’t know the story…

  8. Nah, you didn’t just make a huge mistake. You just took the path of least resistance, which is what most of us do. All the resistance to our being able to live our lives comes from government edicts.

    When the ‘Real ID’ thing arose about the time that the PATRIOT act was imposed, state GOP legislators in VA, headed by state sen. John Watkins of the 10th district, introduced “biometric identifiers” for the state drivers’ license.

    Though “Real ID’ turned out to be very unpopular with the voters, the Va state drivers’ license was still changed to included a B&W mug shot in place of the color photo, along with a transparent oval for a scan-friendly fingerprint. The fingerprint isn’t being taken yet and the transparent oval is filled by a scan-friendly copy of the ID photo. Still, the DL form is ready for the fingerprint, which is coming soon, you can rest assured.

    • Ed, it could be like Texas. I went in to get my Class A CDL renewed in 2012 and had to give them Both my thumbprints and noticed their camera was one of the new biometric facial recognition jobs. I couldn’t get a place to sit, not that I want to, because the place was packed with illegals getting a DL. If they had known, they might not have wanted to get a DL. Then again, I haven’t found any geniuses in that bunch. I may sound like a bigot but I have friends in Mexico I’ve driven 600 miles into Mexico to visit, almost to Guatemala, and they are Mexicans. I tried to sponsor one for a green card but he didn’t meet the requirements for the skills they wanted. I don’t know what they’re doing now. A friend saw a small Chevy Mexican only pickup this week on the interstate near S.A.

      • Texas started doing that shit quite a few years ago for even just your regular drivers. When I went in to renew, and met the unfriendly cows running the show, I asked why was it I need to give a fingerprint for the license. The answer?: “Well if we need to identify the body in case of a car wreck”. What the hell?! Just how difficult was it before? Not! So, no, I’m in no hurry to ever get another Texas drivers license. Just another case in point where the Midnight Cowboys in Austin are screwing everyone.

        • The first time I walked in and they did that thumb print, I nearly turned around and left. If I hadn’t known I’d have to show my license all the time I would have. Sounds like you no longer live here. Now Texans aren’t claiming Austin and want all the Commie yankee territory gone. No real Texan claims Austin now. I’ve said it before and my college buddies won’t admit it since they seem to still want to suck Ronnie off but it was under Ronnie we had the huge yankee influx along with all the shit laws and the state went straight to hell during his “reign of terror”. I’m trying to remember a prez I didn’t hate….nope, still no luck.

          • Back in Odessa working with pressure pumping services. Family still in the northwest and likely will remain until things settle down. People have gotten really greedy here, as before, and I’m waiting for it all to go to hell as it always has in the past. Austin? I weep over what once was. Now just another den of vipers.

          • MoT, funny you should use that term since a friend was here yesterday lately loose of Odessa since forming his own business. He spoke of the relief of getting away from the greed and hell of Odessa. Chances are you may have to wait longer this time. Eagle Ford looks to play for quite a while longer although the big plays may be closer to being between me and east Texas. I’d rather work Odessa than Longview. East Texas waterheads, always have a bassackward way of looking at things. I’d rather keep heading east and hang with coonasses, damn fun people those.

          • “Austin? I weep over what once was. Now just another den of vipers.”

            I don’t know if Austin was ever any better. In one of Larry McMurtry’s novels about Woodrow Call and Augustus McCrae, they were in Austin before Lincoln’s war and the author was describing the bunch of drunken grifters who populated the state house and senate.

            One scene described a house delegate run over by a freight wagon while passed out drunk in the thoroughfare, and another described McCrae’s description of “one of those ramshackly senators”.

            I’m hard put to imagine any state capitol that isn’t populated with the dregs of society. That’s the caliber of people attracted to politics, and it always has been.

    • If they ever mandate the fingerprint, I’m out – done. Not doing it.

      It’s one of my lines in the sand.

      Until I am convicted of a crime, I will not submit to fingerprinting.

      Fuck e’m and feed ’em fish heads!

      • “Until I am convicted of a crime, I will not submit to fingerprinting. ”

        The standard gateway for fingerprinting is for an arrest, so they have mine on file anyway. They’re going to keep pushing until they run out of steam. Every do-nothing job that’s added to government payrolls siphons off more of their steam.

        They’re going to collapse into a squirming pile of incompetent assholes sooner or later. All we have to do is outlive their teetering apparatus.

        • Moot point for me too Ed. I can’t say it doesn’t still PISS ME OFF though. We never had a winch puller like that although I lobbied for one. No unions here, bosses liked “old school”, in other words, waste way too much time killing yourself just because they had. It doesn’t build character, just a bad attitude.

        • I’m due to renew my “license” (aka identification car) in 2015.

          Coincidentally, I’m planning some woodworking the day before. Yeah, I plan THAT far ahead.

          And darned if I don’t often use superglue to tack pieces in place…and get it all over my thumbs.

          BTW the unsolved murder rate is more than 1/3…and increasing. That thumbprint? It’s to get you used to giving your print…in preparation for the enforced cashless society with biometric payment.

          Couldn’t scare the rubes with a mark on the hand or the forehead, so they just use the marks you’ve got already.

          Yeah. Fuck’em and feed’em fishheads.

          • meth, here’s what a friend from Navasota just sent me: It’s because our politicians are the absolute worst scum-suckers of the Earth. Isn’t our government a real Piece Of Shit? They need to get a speedy trial then executed by flinging them off a cliff. They don’t deserve a burial. Another friend said, Larry, why don’t you tell us what you really think? I’m still laughing. Larry is a 70 year old man, not some young hothead.

          • On the wood working….

            I don’t know what Illinois does these days but I’ll find out soon… given the condition the top layer of skin is on both my thumbs are in right now it should make for interesting thumb prints…

          • BrentP, I have friends who are masons. They have NO fingerprints. It’s a thought. Maybe I’ll try a stint of it before my license renews….nope, once a felon…….

          • “flinging off a cliff”–

            I dunno, 8south. Seems kinda barbaric, don’t you think? I mean, what if they landed on some perfectly innocent wildlife?

            And what about the run-off of toxic bile into the waterway?

            Always been a fan of hanging, myself; Saddam-style. Keeps all the purulence inside that putrescent bag of skin.

          • meth, I said the same thing. I suggested since there are always plenty of old ships not worth anything we load as many as required and send them into the Atlantic and scuttle them, feed the fishes.

          • Damn right, Eight. I got picked up in Longview after having been working as a helper on a masonry crew for a couple of weeks. The cop doing my intake got pissed off at me and claimed I was moving my fingers and smearing the card when he was trying to print me.

            An older cop looked at my hands and said, that I didn’t have any prints. He wasn’t surprised, but I was. I had told him I worked for Scarlett Masonry.

            Bricks and blocks will smooth your fingertips right off, even if your hands are callused.

          • Ed, what did they get you for? Being from out of state and having some money? I got robbed by a S.C. hiway patrol for the same offense.

          • “Ed, what did they get you for? ”

            DWI, of course. I was drunker than Cooter Brown, too. Funny thing, back then, DWI was just a kind of basic holding charge to get your drunk ass off the road. I couldn’t remember my boss’s number, but the guy riding with me came back in the morning and bailed me out.

            I never had to go back for a trial or anything else, no charges were ever filed, and the bail was the fine. Nowadays, if you get a DWI in East Texas, or anywhere else in the states, you may as well have robbed a bank.

            Funny also about you being from Texas and getting robbed in SC. I was from SC and was treated pretty fairly in Texas. Them were different days back then. We lived in a vastly different country in the ’70s, you know it?

            • Right you are, Ed.

              Hell, the ’80s were absolutely chill compared with today. True story:

              Back in ’87, I was riding with one of my high school friends in his SS Chevelle. He had several adult beverages in him when he did a burnout in front of a cop.

              Well, naturlich, the cop pulled him over. But instead of Glock drawn – or Tazered and proned on the pavement – guess what happened?

              The cop told me to drive my friend home – and get his ass the hell off the road.

              Not even a ticket.

              I have trouble sometimes believing that America even existed.

          • Ed, yeah, I know, the 70’s were a different planet almost. It was in the 70’s I got held up though. I know many people don’t understand this but back even in the late 60’s everybody on the east coast had a bad attitude toward Texans. They see a plate and automatically start talking trash. The worst load I ever got was in Virgina. For reasons I can only chalk up to envy, they couldn’t say enough bad things about those “big fancy Texas rigs” and I never drove anything “fancy”, not in any real sense. Texas has always been very strict about having everything up to snuff on a vehicle. You roll in this state and everything had better work and work correctly. They check the slack adjusters on your brakes, trailer as well as tractor. You get checked for everything and it had better be right. Yes I had both mirrors and multiple tail lamps, plenty of side markers and generally, it was fairly clean. You’d have thought those things were a crime there. Back then you’d see east coast trucks that were pure rolling junk, dangerous stuff. Not many people understand, although no doubt you do, how far it is across Texas. As old man Carter said to Jimmy Rodgers when visiting him in Texas, “I’ve never been so many miles and seen so little, never saw so many windmills and so few cattle”. We used to drive 90mph back in the 60’s when traveling. When I got my license at 14 I started doing all the driving since I was an old hand at it ha ha. We’d be in the middle of nowhere, some place that’s still in the middle of nowhere, and my dad would be chilly, probably wishing he’d bought that Buick that would cruise at 110 instead of the Chevy.

          • ” Not many people understand, although no doubt you do, how far it is across Texas”

            I didn’t realize it until I lived there. My younger brother came out to go to engineering school at LeTourneau. He told my work buddy’s dad that since he was in Texas, he wanted to drive out to “see the Alamo some afternoon”. The old man told him that it was as far from Longview to the Alamo as it was from our home town in SC to Longview.

            Texas is the BFS..Big Fuckin’ State. If you hit the road for the high plains, or the big empty west, your running gear had better be in good order, no shit. There’d better be some food and water on board, too.

          • “The cop told me to drive my friend home – and get his ass the hell off the road.

            Not even a ticket. ”

            Yep, there was a real rough old cop in my home town. He stopped me going up Main st. at about 2 am, drunker than $700.

            Once he saw it was me, he told me to go straight home and don’t come back out on the roads until daylight, at least.

            Nowadays, the young skinheads who patrol that town would probably shoot me or tazer me, just for being an old coot who told them to kiss my ass.

            Hell, I believe the 70s. I have trouble getting my head around what we live under these days, though.

            • Maybe there ought to be a rule:

              Only guys over 35 can be peace officers (screw cops).

              The more I roll it around in my head, the worse an idea it seems to me to give a buzz-cut 24-year-old authoritay over anyone.

              Time mellows you and gives perspective. You (hopefully) aren’t an insecure kid anymore – who over-reacts to any perceived affront to your status.

          • Ed, oh yes, we always had a large cooler on the headache rack and back porch. When you’re a heavy hauler you need all that space out back for tarps, chains, boomers, tool boxes, etc. There was a time that cooler could be full of adult beverages too although food and soft drink were necessities. I still travel that way to some extent. I will not eat fast food and avoid the convenience store drinks. I can load up on some leftovers, a gallon of water, maybe a munchy of some sort from home. My wife used to fix a cooler of food for me, so much better than road food.

        • “Every do-nothing job that’s added to government payrolls siphons off more of their steam.

          They’re going to collapse into a squirming pile of incompetent assholes sooner or later. All we have to do is outlive their teetering apparatus”

          Too funny really!

          From Longview what state?

          Sorry to hear they got your fingerprints, I’ve never got arrested thankfully but they got it in Cali DMV. I’m sure those have been sent to all kinds of archives. It’ll be a matter of time and DNA will be required to be a driver. It never ends.

          I went to Wells Fargo to start a business account about 7 years ago. They had me fill out 45 minutes of paperwork. Then the asssistant pulled out an inkpad and asked for my fingerprint. I said nope. “Standard if you have nothing to hide?” To which I replied this isn’t Napoleonic law and I don’t have to prove that I’m innocent, its not even your job to the do the alternative. Typical.

          • Longview is in East Texas. Nowadays, it’s standard procedure at Wells Fargo Banks to require a thunmbprint on checks, if you want to cash a check drawn on them.

            Since credit unions have become open to the public at large with no requirement for employee status anywhere, it makes more sense to me to use a credit union. I don’t use banking services very often anymore, anyway.

          • @Ed & Hot Rod (and anyone else)

            If you haven’t already, do yourself and everyone else a big favor–pull your money out of the big banks.

            The big six especially are THE enemy.

            And their service sucks.

            I pulled out two or three years ago and started banking with a small local bank. Absolutely night-and-day difference. Just for example; every couple of weeks I go in to pay myself from the business account to my account. I could do it online but the tellers are very pleasant and I get an official print-out.

            I walk in; they greet me by name. I ask to transfer X thousand…I don’t even have to tell them my account numbers. Done. Then I ask for X thousand in cash if I’m doing a gold/silver/lead purchase that month; she’ll reach into her drawer, pull out the cash, and hand it to me. Listen, the amounts are not big; I do reasonably well but I’m nowhere near a high-roller so the treatment’s not due to elevated status.

            And I’ve never shown ID except the first time I set up the accounts.

            No thumbprint, no multiple ID’s, no surly bitches snarling at you, no outrageous fees.

            It’s like banking in the 1950’s.

          • meth, the local bank is probably solvent also, not something you’ll get with the big six. I have friends who use BOA in Houston. Their accounts have all been hacked and they’ve lost thousands in each account every time. I told them many years ago to find a good local bank but they continue with BOA. I just don’t get it. They live in Huntsville. I think their local bank may be the oldest bank in Tx. I know it has a great rep and satisfied customers and it’s only right down the road. This guy is a doctor, just shows to go ya.

          • @8south:

            You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

            And as for those accounts being “hacked”–I’m deeply suspicious. I wonder if those were the first American “bail-ins” Cyprus-style.

            I did security work for two banks. The encryption we used was top-notch, and the measures we put around protecting the master keys were absolutely Byzantine in their complexity. It made it impossible for a single actor to compromise the keys.

            Now that said, we all know how incompetent and bureaucratic big corporations are…and I’m betting BOA’s IT standards are a hodge-podge boiling stew of inconsistencies, fiefdoms, in-fighting, and cluster-fucks.

            All the more reason not to trust the bastards.

            And besides…they stole our money with the bailoutes, and they continue to steal 85 Billion a month through QE Infinity.

            God how much abuse are people willing to take?

          • meth, this was probably 6-7 years ago, you know how time flies when you’re having fun with the feds. Back then all the Big banks were getting hacked left and right. Unless you live in the same town and have pressing financial business constantly as in constantly depositing cash from a retail business or something, I don’t understand why anyone would even want to walk into one of those banks. I used to service all the big banks, hauling their notes(and often they’d load me up with bags of cash they weren’t supposed to)and deposits to the airport. They were so under-staffed I would, at their request, open their business drawers, get out the forms, fill them out and run over for a quick signature, fill the bags and leave. This was du jour for BOA. The bigger the bank, the less oversight and that can be said for every bank I serviced. Once they’d seen me a few times, it was “help yourself” since they were so busy. And the outfit I worked for was very security minded too. I’d walk away from the pickup, loaded with countless bags from other banks, go into another bank and pick up bank bags, might easily take me 20 minutes or more, then haul their bags out and throw them on top of all the rest. I worried at first but then thought What, Me Worry? And what would have been the point? Nice to know how your deposits are being protected eh?

      • As a product of the public school system, in first grade my entire class was brought up to the office and fingerprinted by cops who were “showing us how they do their job”.

        If I keep talking shit about the government on the internet, maybe one of my fingerprints will miraculously show up at some crime scene. Kinda like the black man who gets pinned for a crime because our brilliant government detectives found a single one of the black man’s pubes in the carpet…No arguing against “hard” evidence… Zippity friggin’ doo dah.

        And Eightsouthman, that story about your friend Larry getting talked to like he’s a kid is classic. I do not have any patience to “debate” people who are politically correct, or pretend not to let emotion interject into what they’re saying. In any debate between two people there is certainly a right and wrong answer, and although it’s not always exactly black and white, one is correct and the other is a “fucking idiot who needs an open palmed slap across the face”. And on top of that, being polite and politically correct is exactly how the government has spun their power against the population. If “they” ask you politely to pull down your pants so they can check to see if you’re smuggling drugs up your ass, with their dick, you better do it because hey, they said “please”…

        • Jacob, this gets weirder and weirder since I just replied and asked him if the DOT still has the place in Madisonville(TX)(where he was speaking of)with the sign: Truckers, pull over, stop and drop trou….my words but what they do there.

        • @Jacob–

          Oh, they don’t say “please”.

          But they’re officials, and they’re wearing a shiny uniform.

          I think Jones is right; the average Amoricon would throw their child in a wood chipper if someone in a uniform told them to. “Oh yessir, yessir, anything you say sir thank you for your service sir!”

      • eric,
        If you’re around my age – I think you are, from the “about” page – You might already have been fingerprinted.
        I was in grade school when the local police came by and fingerprinted us all – it was the age of “Stranger Danger.” Now I wonder what happened to those fingerprints? Never done anything worth the time and effort for a fingerprint check, likely not going to, but…
        I’ll be fingerprinted if I ever get around to getting a gun permit.
        And the current assholes spewing their verbal diarrhea want to make it an annual occurrence, IIRC, all paid for by ME.

        THAT sort of bullshit is enough to make we WANT to commit unspeakable acts: I haven’t done anything, I am loyal to the ideals and principles of the Founders – and so _I_ am the Enemy to them.

        You want to play for blood, I’ll make it worth your while. A cornered coon is a vicious SOB. I plan to be vicious, escape, and then revisit the situation as many times as I survive. Like Jefferson: “… they believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, …”

        In their mind, I am the Devil.
        He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. -Friedrich Nietzsche, “Beyond good and evil” (Also echoed in V for Vendetta, as V and Evie discuss how V came to be: “What was done to me was monstrous.” “And so they created a monster.”)

        There are those who cannot resist. Too weak, too entangled, too sane, too kind.
        Those of us who have been cauterized of emotion and sanity must therefore shoulder the whole burden, determine what will actually make for good results – and soemtimes, good returns, as we may not return. If our death ends the problem, so be it – “I pay it willingly.” (QV Equilibrium) More likely, we would barely be a flash in the pan, so we need to be more and more off the grid, out of sight, frighteningly normal, and immensely powerful personally. Know the layouts of power grids; rail lines; airports; know response times of police; know where the police live; know where the mayor lives, and his and his family’s daily routines. Know the Millionaire Next Door, and whether he has true power connections – Bernanke, say, or Gates. When possible, know the police on first-name basis, too. And the mayor. And the judges. Know the priests, rabbis, teachers. Know the governor and legislators and state senators, and their guards. Know all these people, and be ready to kill them all as needed.
        And don’t be Kaczynski et al, or even Randy Weaver: be known without anyone knowing YOU. Be social, not withdrawn. Be a dealer, a supplier of needs, a businessman, banker, active in the community – and not as an Activist.

        DO NOT join groups like GOA or NRA, if possible be a good Democrat supporter (maskirovka). Remember, a gentleman is a man who thinks one thing and says another. Put this false-face into play, and you become their enemy, though they take you as friend. Educate the ones you can save; poison the rest by spreading quiet lies and dissent, casting doubt on the occupying army, and if needed, be ready to walk in with C4 and “forget” your special package(s).

        Then mourn in public, and NEVER rejoice. (Rejoicing is just as evil as they are.)

        They’ve fought this war for over 200 years. More than likely, our best bet is to make the infrastructure of the parasite class fall inwards on itself – and if you ARE the public star, whom everyone knows, you’re likely IN a leadership role – you can lead people whether they really want to go there or not. (And if they don’t want to go, it’s likely the right direction: towards self reliance (hard work), responsibility (freedom), etc.
        Until it’s time, you can lead the society (group, community, Capital-S State) into ruin. “As popular war increases – peace is closer.”
        Can’t make war if everyone else is thinking the same thing you are, the enemy is back to being the Outsider – and you have a stable society.

        A revolution is called a Revolution because it goes 360 degrees, and bites itself on the ass. “Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. ” Thomas Jefferson

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