A Robbery of a Different Kind

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The police state is not only here – it is being welcomed with open arms.

Exhibit A: In Aurora, Colorado, police searching for suspected bank robbers locked down an entire intersection, dragooned 40 random motorists out of their cars at gunpoint, handcuffed them and “asked” for permission to search their vehicles. (See here for the ABC News story.)

Naturally, no one refused permission.

The action itself is startling: 40 people, guilty of nothing more than proximity, of being in the same general area where a suspected criminal might also be, are literally pulled from their vehicles, shackled and detained for more than two hours – even after it was obvious they were guilty of no crime at all.

Even more startling, however, than these over-the-top tactics is the fact that (apparently) every one of these 40 innocent people complied without a peep of protest. Not one said: “I’m sorry officer, but unless I’ve committed a crime I’d like to be free to go about my business.” Not one said, ” I do not consent to any searches.”

None put up a fuss when the cuffs came out.

One woman interviewed by ABC News clucked happily: “Yeah, we all got cuffed (laugh) until they figured out who did what.” No doubt this woman will not object when a gang of armed men kicks in her door, invades her home and holds her family at gunpoint until they figure out who did what. After all, there are criminals about. They could be anywhere. Which means, anything is justified.

In the words of one ABC News blogger, “Sounds like the police did their job – and did it exceptionally well!” And another: “I think the police did a great job in an unusual circumstance and protected the people of the city from a dangerous criminal. Those people should praise the police, not sue them!”

The Accosted apparently agree. So far, according to news reports, none of the 40 has so much as filed a complaint.

This is an incredible thing. A lurid testimony as to the current state of the American mind – cowed, in awe of “law enforcement” – and utterly indifferent to the inevitable consequences of countenancing such thuggery.

And thuggery is precisely the right word. Because thugs use violence to intimidate and get what they want. They do not care how they get what they want.

Just so they get what they want.

Aurora, Colorado Police Chief – and four star “general” – Dan Oates agrees, describing the trampling of 40 innocent people’s civil liberties in pursuit of his Greater Good as a reasonable exercise of what he called “investigative detention” for a “reasonable” period of time.

The question arises: If it is “reasonable” to pull scores of random people out of their cars, handcuff them at gunpoint, search their vehicles under extreme duress and then “detain” them for hours, what would constitute unreasonable?

Summary execution, perhaps?

In fact, they might as well have just shot everyone. It’s logical, according to the unreasonable reasoning of General Oates. After all, God will know his own. The guilty would have been dealt with – and as the saying goes, you can’t make am omelet without breaking a few eggs… .

Americans are becoming so accustomed to tyranny they hardly notice it anymore. The outrageous has become the routine. And the routine quickly becomes accepted as normal. A nation that has been taught to raise its arms – and spread its legs – as a routine part of air travel, which thinks it’s ok to subject anyone arrested for any reason at all (including jaywalking) to forcible strip searches and which accepts random, dragnet-style searches of anyone at anytime as “reasonable” is fated to accept things far worse in due course. It’s now only a question of time. The principle of unreasonable authority – limitless, unconstrained by any civilized rules of engagement – has been accepted by millions of Americans. And the consequences of that ought to be obvious.

Except, of course, they are not.

Most people don’t see what’s coming because they view things in a limited way. The cops in Aurora were only trying to get their man, they will tell you. Such tactics would never be used against innocent people. It never occurs to them that in fact such tactics have already been used against innocent people. 40 of them, in fact. Not one of the 40 Accosted had to rob a bank – or even jaywalk – to be treated just the same as if they had robbed a bank. Just as we are treated as presumptive drunks at “sobriety checkpoints” – and just as we are treated as presumptive terrorists by the TSA.

What, then, will prevent the Boys in Blue from treating anyone they wish to as a “criminal” – given that it is no longer necessary for them to even pretend that us anyones have done anything at all?

Innocence itself is no longer a defense.

A scary thing.

If anyone’s paying attention.

Throw it in the Woods?








  1. I had (sadly) a family member tell me last night: “everything is not about the gov’t”.

    It’s not? Really? Name one thing that is not regulated, controlled and/or taxed by the gov’t.

    Even a garage sale is supposed to pay taxes. There is not a single aspect of one’s life that is not controlled by the gov’t. From the food we eat, the medical care we receive, the cars we drive, the homes we build the clothes we wear the schools we attend, EVERYTHING!

    To deny this and go around spouting: “we live in a free country” is just ignorant. Americans are about as free as a monkey in a cage since they even need the gov’ts permission to leave their own country – passport!

  2. So, I guess I would be correct when I say that the Aurora thugocracy actually arrested their “criminal suspect”?

    Nah–that would be giving them too much credit.

    I bet they found their suspect lurking in one of the autos they searched at that intersection.

    Surely, I must be joking! After all, their job is to catch criminals, right?

    I HAVE to be living in a dream-world to believe that! A dream-world where everybody does only what they are supposed to; a world where the cops have wooden legs, and the jails are made of tin (“Big Rock Candy Mountain”). But no: This is America! (Oops, I think I misspelled that: I meant Amerika).

    I know this brings up one of the reasons I specifically oppose federal bills that create spending for more cops. If you keep adding cops, then you will keep adding laws. And most of those laws will be useless laws that can only be dreamed up by paper-pushers that would serve no economic function in a real (I mean, free) society. I live in a county that survives with very low “criminal” activity, just 1 sheriff and 4 deputies. The worst I could expect from them would be the Barney Fife treatment. But I also know of some other areas that would probably guarantee me the Aurora treatment. Thankfully, I never drive in those areas.

  3. Bravo Mr. Peters! Your automotive/libertarian website is an island of sanity in an insane world. And well written too. You show us what one man can do to carry on the good fight.

    Good stuff on cars too.

    • Thank you, Matt!

      I’ve found over the years that “car guys” and “bike guys” tend to be inclined toward liberty – so it seemed like a good way to use both interests to pursue a mutual advantage. Without liberty, no cars (or bikes). And with cars (and bikes) no liberty, either!

  4. Nearly all of the Individuals who claim to hunger for Liberty and Justice studiously ignore the most powerful Lawful/Legal Weapon at their disposal.

    Working together, an Informed Grand Jury in every jurisdiction in America could make Office Holders (Including district attorneys.) tremble at the very thought of Grand Jury Presentment* Power.

    What would the lions do if the prey animals worked in concert to kill them? (A broken leg or jaw is a death sentence for a predator.) Instead, each merely runs or works his way toward the center of the herd in the hope that he will be eaten last.

    Human Beings ought to be smarter than that.


    *See: Fifth Amendment

  5. Randal Howard Paul’s call for limits to drone use.

    “The bill would also give Americans the ability to sue the government for violating the act. And, it would prohibit evidence collected with warrantless drone surveillance from being used as evidence in court.”

    No shit Sherlock, the naked eye provision has been in place all along. If you can’t see it with the naked eye it didn’t happen.


    So his idea is to barely limit the powers, maybe if they must. No problem though with using them against Americans overseas. No problem if you might be a suspected terrorist (meaning any of us), or on the border etc. This bill would actually codify into law their use in most cases. All they would need to do is claim you were dangerous. (like anyone who takes a piss off their back deck)

    Two gold stars for the newest giant flying douchebag.

  6. Freedom is being left alone. I no fucka with you, you no fucka with me. I sell to you, you sell to me, but only if both of us feel like it.

  7. Along with this one, I read thousands of US police misconduct and abuse stories annually. I am utterly saddened by how our country has devolved, and how the new face of law enforcement in Amerika has been trained to believe that Americans, liberty minded people, returning war vets, gun owners, and generally anyone who believes in the Constitution and our (former) rights are the enemy – and these LEOs believe that, and act accordingly.

    If I had been one of those 40 motorists I wuld have calmly and peacefully resisted their illegal detainment and search – although with a roid-head power-tripping cop pointing a shotgun at my head, it might have taken an extrordinary amount of courage to do so. If I had been there and done that, I could very well have ended up shot dead, and the Police Chief there, and the millions of sheeple would have said I deserved it – for resisting.

    • Indeed.

      1930s Germans were badge-lickers, too. They worshipped authority – the specific object of their Prussian school training regimen.Hence, they cheered the Fuhrer and his thugs – who promised ordnung.

      And, delivered.

  8. Slaves willingly forging their own chains.

    A person only has principles or values if they hold to them when it is difficult, not just when it is convenient, or safe.

  9. Eliminat “sovereign immunity” for ALL “public servants” and politicians and bureaucrats and you will see a wholesale change in their attitudes. When they realize that they are subject to lawsuits from those of us who pay their wages, things will change. Of course frivolous lawsuits will exist, but so what??

  10. I had the cops at my home looking for a man that I knew because he called his girlfriend who had just filed a restraining order against him using my phone earlier that day although he didn’t tell me. The cops asked if I minded it they search my house.
    Yes, I do mind because I told you he isn’t here. I was just in the house. It isn’t my job to keep track of him. That sounds like a job for the police. Good luck. Don’t give up your rights!

  11. I do not know where you all live. But here in Flint and Saginaw MI 1/2 the police have been laid off. The rest spend their time in bunkers , not on patrol. They only respond to the shooting and killing when called. We have daytime shoot-outs, drive by shooting, then they call on the public to help solve the crimes.
    Send some of your heavy handed police this way to clean up these towns. A grand mother was passing through on the freeway, stopped to get gas at the freeway station, and was shot and killed in a carjacking. It is hard to live in peace with this happening.

    • Dear Rick,
      Form a local patrol of armed men. Set up road blocks and control access to your neighborhood if it is really that bad. Create an armed neighborhood safe haven. There has to be more good people in the city than bad. Organize them and “police” yourselves. This is how it was done before we became a totalitarian state. Think… volunteer firefighters like rural communities.

    • I think you miss the point of this article. I live in a community with a lot of peace officers, and not law enforcement officers. Personally, you are responsible for you own protection. I was once threatened by a hard criminal visiting the neighbor across the street and trying to bully his way into the neighborhood.

      I and a couple neighbors stood up to him and wouldn’t put up with it. Even my local peace officer said, I’d be on my own for at least 60 seconds. I don’t know what you can do about your local problems, but allowing searches and arrests with out probable cause and warrant you may find may the next search mat be just random and by the “just because law”.

      Of course I respect your right to acquiesce to unlawful detainment so long as you don’t require me to experience the same. I once had a bully law enforcement goon try to get me to go along with his mischief. I didn’t and he knew better than to show up in court to be embarrassed; and I’m no lawyer either.

      The joke goes like this. An officer pulled over an elderly lady for a minor traffic violation. The officer noticed a gun in her purse. He asked if she had a permit to carry concealed. She responded “yes” and showed it to him. The officer notice a another gun under her jacket and asked, “well how many guns do you have?” She responded, “I have another in the glove box, one in the trunk, one shouldered and one in my boot. Why do you ask?

      The officer replied, “well what the heck are you afraid of?” She said, “Not a damn thing.”

      At the root of defense must be the individual man or woman. If you will notice even in even a well staffed police force, they respond to crime after the fact. A presence “may” limit it, but they respond after the fact 99% of the time.

      Learn how to defend yourself and stay out of harms way as much as you can. Don’t allow your government to limit your ability to defend you.

  12. Sheepledumb rules the day. In the advance of an economic storm, Ron Paul delegates should consider there may be no tomorrow. Rand Paul in 4 years (assuming good intentions) may be too late.

    As demonstrated here sheeple are so quick to grasp the threat on their individual freedom and liberty. So when the perfect economic storm hits, sheeple will look for that political mischief maker that will promise all. The sheeple will not only give up all their rights as well will give up their children’s rights and future; and as well give up yours and my rights too.

    “The law” is on the side of your conscience as a delegate. Just like Apollo Creed told Rocky Balboa, “There is no tomorrow”, don’t count on 4 years later for anything except misery. After all if you’re young it’s your future and not the future of those today wanting you to make their lives better at the expense of you and your future.

    Without violence you Ron Paul delegates can thumb your nose at the status quo of mischief makers at the convention and exercise the power you have to control your destiny but also do what is right.

  13. Hi Eric and the rest… Eric, great job staying on top of incidences like this one in CO. I read your blog quite often.

    After reading a lot of the posts here today, it became very apparent that most like griping about the symptoms of the disease rather than understanding the disease and dealing with it. Let me explain with a recent true story.

    In February I was invited to speak to the San Fernando Valley Patriots. I support what those folks are doing, however, what they are doing is reactionary. Freedom, on the other hand,is always proactive. (Still with me?)

    When I began the discussion, I asked the folks who of you stand for Freedom,raise your hands. Every hand in the room went up. Then I said, okay, let’s test that. I need five volunteers to tell us what Freedom is. There were five responses, and every one of them was different. Suddenly everyone realized that if everyone has their own definition of Freedom, then there is no Freedom. We were now dealing with the disease rather than the symptoms of the disease.If you need to, go back and reread Eric’s article above. It very nicely proves my point. The Aurora cops are not evil people. They are not bad Americans. They believe what they are doing is in the name of Freedom. Although I am in CA, one of them could just as easily been one of the five in my audience in February. Then there are the 40 folks detained.

    At the end of the discussion, I asked who would like to see how fast you can lose your Freedom? Everyone again raised their hands. So, I simply put forth, Tell me what Freedom is. Every person in the room looked down and said. “Oh crap!” And I responded, “You just lost it. That fast.”

    A question I ask folks is, are you willing to die for Freedom? Typically, I get a yes response. My next question is, are you willing to live for Freedom? Typical response, “What are you talking about?”

    The American founders did not invent Freedom, they were confronted with it and embraced it. Having done so, they attempted to design a structure of governance that would promote and protect Freedom for Freedom’s sake and Freedom to the individual. To work, the individual must also embrace Freedom. The country is it’s people. Government is the people. If those of us living today are not embracing Freedom, then what are we embracing. Or more pointedly, what are you embracing? If you do not know what Freedom is then you are not embracing Freedom. It really is that simple. For me, I am a slave to Freedom. I could go on, but not here.

    Eric, again thank you for caring and taking the time.

    For Freedom’s sake,

    The Freedom Driven Life: The Case for Freedom

    • If you read my link above, you will note…

      Survival EQUALS ability to adapt to environment EQUALS ability to choose correctly EQUALS freedom to choose.

      So, how can the circle be squared that freedom can be achieved / enforced by a$$holes telling you what to do and what not to do, at the point of a gun and incarcerating people for CHOOSING the “or else” option of their general “obey or else” demand, so long as “or else” is peaceful and harms no one? There is only ONE answer to this question. It cannot. The only “freedom” in this false proposition is “of predators, to prey”.

      It should also be noted that “obey” is a very narrow, specific demand, whereas “or else” is pregnant with the near infinite possibilities offered by reality constrained solely by the laws of physics and reality (absolute relationship between action and consequence).

      • Hey Bill… You’ve hit on point.

        Fact: The biggest detriment to your Freedom is everyone else. And the second biggest detriment to your Freedom is you. I always forget which one comes first.

        Or to put it another way: I am the biggest detriment to your Freedom and you are the biggest detriment to my Freedom. Also I am the biggest detriment to my Freedom and you are the biggest detriment to your Freedom. History proves it over and over.

      • Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.–Joplin

        In a simplified version:

        It is the ability to live your life without others cheating or harming you provided you do not harm or cheat others.

        It is the ability to own your own land out right without the need to pay yearly rent to the state.

        • “It is the ability to live your life without others cheating or harming you provided you do not harm or cheat others.”

          I wouldn’t characterize freedom as human perfection. There will always be those that violate your rights, but freedom is the ability to defend your rights and to choose to be part of a community that you feel comfortable and safe in. To choose freely who you sell your labor to and to feely enter into a contract and do with the fruits of your labor as you wish. Of course this extends to all personal posessions.

          • Don,

            Thanks for your comments. Freedom is not easy for me to put into a few words.

            One day I will need to speak to you about your experiences in Romania. I know someone that worked here in the states for a summer before returning to Romania. I enjoyed speaking with him and would like to visit Romania one day.

          • Okay Don… Great ideals! Now how do you get there?

            Let me pose two questions to everyone. I’m not picking on Don, but the questions are in line with his post here.

            Is Freedom free? Or is it a true statement that “Freedom isn’t free?”

            Are you willing to live for Freedom?

        • Why is such a patently simple idea so difficult to promulgate to the masses? You and I know this is what it;s all about, the evil rulers know the same. But the masses don’t get it. My guess is they’re cheap hookers.

        • Hi mithrandir… If I might. At the heart of your definition of Freedom is: Just leave me alone. That may sound abrupt, but at the heart of it that is exactly what you are saying, and that is not Freedom. And JJ’s lyrical definition is absolutely not true. But everyone knows that line.

          • Tim,

            I could not resist throwing in the line from JJ. 🙂

            It also requires that the individual respect the rights of others.

            How would you define freedom?

        • Mithrandir and Don, thanks for your answers. It sounds to me like you’d both agree with defining “freedom” as “the absence of aggression”. I like this definition, as it fits perfectly with the self-ownership and non-aggression principles. What do you think?

      • My definition:

        To be left in peace to live your life as you see fit, without interference, provided your actions cause no actual harm to others. To freely associate/transact business (or not) with whomever, for whatever reasons seem important to the parties involved – with no outside interference. To have one’s person respected as inviolate – as well as the fruits of the labor of one’s person. To live in a society in which the only claim others have on you is that you respect these freedoms as valid for others as others must respect them as valid for you.

        • Hi Eric… Okay, great! How do you accomplish that in this life? In order to get what you are wanting, you and those around you, or let’s go bigger and say the rest of the human race as those around you, have to embrace Freedom.

      • People complicate the concept of freedom too much.

        “Freedom is such a broad, all-encompassing subject,” they say to themselves. “How can I possibly sum it up in a sentence or two?

        But we are not talking poetry. We are talking politics. That narrows the discussion down considerably.

        Freedom: the absence of physical coercion by other human beings.

        Yes, it really is that simple.

        Behind every abrogation of freedom is, you guessed it, physical coercion by other human beings.

        Behind every abrogation of freedom is the initiation of force by some human beings against others.

        Behind every abrogation of freedom is the violation of the non-aggression axiom.

        Eliminate such physical coercion, such initiation of force, such aggression against others, and one is ipso facto free.

        • Excellent job of getting at the fundamentals, Bevin. It really is quite simple when the non-aggression axiom is invoked, though I had never put it together that way before. Thank you for the great insight.

          • Dear Mike,

            Thanks. Much appreciated.

            I’m no genius. If I were, I’d have made far more of my life and career than I have.

            But I am persistent. I always want to know “So what’s the bottom line?” That’s how I connect the dots.

            Hopefully I can do some good this way!

            • Hi Bevin,

              We’re of like minds!

              I, too, am persistent – and always try to find the common denominator; aka, the bottom line.

              I call it my Crap Cutter!

          • Dear Eric,

            I think that’s what makes the people here at your terrific website and at LRC hardcore libertarians or better still, market anarchists.

            The shared no bullshit “I want to know the bottom line” attitude.

            A good example is “monetary policy.”

            If someone refers to it as “monetary policy,” that is already a bad sign.

            If someone refers to it as “quantitative easing” that’s an even worse sign.

            But if someone refers to it by its proper name, LEGALIZED COUNTERFEITING, that’s the sign of an honest man with a fully functioning bullshit detector. That’s the sign of a kindred spirit!

          • Dear Eric,

            Sure thing!

            The online community you have created here is a breath of fresh air.

            It is also a meaningful contribution to the growth of liberty.

            Some political activists get frustrated with “talk, talk, talk.” They want to “do something.” They don’t realize we ARE “doing something.”

            Man-made political institutions are the external manifestation of peoples’ internal beliefs about how society should be organized.

            Change those beliefs by waging a war of ideas, and you WILL change the man-made political environment. Guaranteed.

            The most recent example was in 1989. A critical mass of people in the Eastern Bloc said to themselves, “Why should I put up with this crap anymore?” And the wall came tumbling down.

          • Dear Tim,


            As I see it, the problem may be political, but it is not necessarily configured exclusively (or even predominantly) at the political level.

            I feel it’s configured at the emotional and psychological level, which is deeper than the intellectual and ideological level.

            To change a nation’s politics, one must change its social psychology. A nation with a groupthink social psychology is not going to adopt laissez-faire economics and market anarchist politics.

            That’s why I feel Eric’s approach of provoking people to reevaluate their ingrained attitudes toward authority is so enormously valuable.

          • Dear Autolykos,

            A “nation” as currently defined.

            Not as defined once market anarchism replaces current collectivist concepts of “nationhood.”

            It’s a problem. The language itself has a collectivist, statist coloration.

        • My only quibble is over the use of the word “coercion”. Many people define that word as simply “the use or threat of force”. Under that definition, only *some* coercion is aggressive, with the rest being defensive. I think we all agree here that some use and threat of force is justified, namely in defense against aggressors.

      • Hey Autolykos… For the purposes of this discussion what I say Freedom is means nothing. The more important issues are what did the US Founders and the US Constitution framers say Freedom is? And the flow then follows, what do YOU say Freedom is?

        If the architects of the US Constitution used a definition of Freedom with which to design our governmental structure and your definition of Freedom is at odds with theirs, then there is going to be a problem. You must understand that the US Constitution stands unique to this day. It was the first written constitution in the entire history of the world. No other written constitutions since have copied the US Constitution. Every other constitution tells the government what they can do to rule the people. The US Constitution is designed to allow the American people to oversee the government. As I noted before, Freedom was the basis the framers used for their design.

        This creates a problem when folks from today remark that the US Constitution is outdated and really only worked for the folks of that time. They either foolishly or malevolently are saying Freedom was only for those people. They really do not understand, or worse, they do and their intent is malevolent.

        • If what I say freedom is means something, then what you say freedom is means something. So tell me, Tim, what do you say freedom is? If you say it’s what the US founders said it is, that’s fine, but then I’d like to know your understanding of what they said it is.

          • Hey howdy… What I said is that if what you say Freedom is, is not the same or, at least, close to what the US Founders and Framers embraced, then you would find yourself at odds with the whole basis of the US Constitution. And if you were having this conversation with someone else, your comment to them would be the same as mine to you, because it has to be. I am not trying to be evasive. It is difficult to get into a lengthy discussion on the subject in this venue. How do I know that? Because I wrote a book on Freedom. Unfortunately there is quite a bit that has to be undone (untangled). To make a statement without having the opportunity to lay out the case, becomes problematic.

            Let me offer some characteristics of Freedom and you decide if you agree, or not.

            Real Freedom promotes (perpetuates)Freedom

            Freedom is active and online 24/7, it is a part of everything -EVERYTHING – you do, even in un-free countries and cultures. The matter becomes how you respond to Freedom. That is the situation the folks in the 13 colonies found themselves.

            No Truth, no Freedom

            If you don’t know what Freedom is, you don’t have Freedom.

            If you don’t know what Freedom is and you are living in a Freedom-loving society, you are living in a situation of someone else’s making, and you are experiencing what they embraced, not what you embrace.

            Those few are all true characteristics of Freedom. What do you think?

          • Tim, with all due respect, I think I still have next to no idea what your definition of “freedom” is. Can you please give me your definition of “freedom”?

          • Okay Autolykos… Let me lay out in the absolutely simplest terms the concept of Freedom the US Founders and Constitutional framers used: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (The Golden Rule of Freedom)

            Think about it. Apply the concept to the US governmental design and you will see that that dynamic is exactly what they designed around. Again, that is the most simple explanation I can offer.
            What’s your thoughts?

          • Calling it “The Golden Rule of Freedom” implies that freedom is something other than that. But if you’re really defining “freedom” as “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, that’s fine.

            Aside from that, my thoughts are that the US governmental design was not designed around that notion of “freedom”. One example is the Fifth Amendment allowing for a form of eminent domain.

          • Autolykos… I understand and you can run with anything you want. Please allow me to clarify. There is no implication that Freedom is something different than the “Golden Rule of Freedom.” As I tried to make very clear, I used the absolute simplest way to articulate the answer you were asking me to share. There is more to Freedom, but not something different; just more fleshed out.

            Also, let me clarify that I did not give you my opinion. My opinion means absolutely nothing in this matter. Everything I have said here is well researched fact from the guys who put it together at the founding.Don’t take my word for it, check it out for yourself. I have.


      Beginning with the Drug War, do you support an across the board repeal of all Power that is repugnant to the Principles underpinning the Unanimous Declaration?

      • Tinsley,

        I think we’re both in agreement that one’s position on the drug question is an excellent way to parse the Clovers from the non.

        You either “package deal” (some people are irresponsible therefore everyone must be presumed irresponsible and treated as such) or you do not.

        You either believe a person owns his own body – or you do not.

        Pretty straightforward!

        • You are obviously among the few who truly understand.

          Many years ago I chanced upon something about philosopher Karl Popper that stuck and stayed. In Popper’s opinion it was best to attack and defeat the strongest part of an opponents argument right away.


          Because by defeating the strongest part of an opponents argument is to have defeated his argument in detail. Whereas if you timidly try to nibble your way toward the heart of the matter you give your opponent time to think, research, and shore up his defenses. You also give witnesses to the debate time to rationalize their own mistaken beliefs.

          The most sickening example of misguided anti-prohibition effort is the Oh Please Your Majesty be Merciful and Legalize Medicinal Marijuana bunch. I can think of no greater and more sickening example of the general misunderstanding of the legitimate power relationship between American Government and the Individual.

          I shudder whenever I consider how a pot using juror, rather than nullifying bad law, would vote to convict someone on trial for possession of heroin.

          Tinsley Grey Sammons (1936 –)

    • My understanding is you’re not even legally entitled to resist their entry. I mean, you can’t even tackle the SOB – or just say, get the fuck out – and bar the door.

        • Of course! The usual double standard. They are entitled to wide latitude and may err on the side of “officer safety.” But we mere Mundanes must accept our status as secondary to “officer safety” – even to the extent of being required to go supine in the face of criminal assault – provided it was done to us with “honest intent.”

          • This is why the term “public servant” makes my blood boil. Especially when it comes out of the mouth of a “public servant.”

            Talk about an Orwellian Big Lie. Anybody who pauses to think for even one minute cannot possibly fail to realize that our nominal servants are our actual masters.

            This irony is so obvious, Hollywood screenwriters and television writers have turned it into a joke, even a cliche.

            Some poor sap gets arrested by some LEO. He rants “I pay your salary! You work for me!” But the LEO continues cuffing him and shoving him into the squad car. The motto on the door of the squad car reads, “To Protect and Serve.”

            The Sheeple watching the scene in the theater or on the boob tube laugh on cue, oblivious to the decidedly unfunny implications of such stock scenes.

            The problem of course is that what the poor sap pays the LEO isn’t really a SALARY. What he pays the LEO is PROTECTION MONEY.

            Because beneath all the rhetoric about the “consent of the governed,” the poor sap never really consented to being governed. He merely acquiesced to being oppressed.

          • Maybe “public servant” doesn’t mean what we assume it does? Ever thought of that? Maybe it is a job description, as in what they do *to* you?

    • I didn’t know I needed anyone’s permission to defend my and my family’s safety in the first place.

      Isn’t it amazing the hold the gov’t has on people? All it takes in the gov’t giving it’s okeedokee and the entire fucking culture changes.

      Mind control man.

    • I spent a while reading that Mike (and also taking a nap :)) Good conversation. I thought the comment on the difference between a violation of civil law and criminal law was well put; the writer claimed that, if rights violations weren’t criminal there would have been no need for the armed response during the US Revolutionary War, (another war I didn’t recognize), and the Civil War. I thought it was a good point. Essentially, you don’t take aggressive thugs to court.

    • Mike in Spotsy – Thanks for the link. I left a comment over there. I would say the folks writing in favor the law at least ten to one. There was a lot of very clear objection far by the posters at allgov to government (and LEO’s in particular) having gone way too far. Of course there was some characteristic whining about how they put their lives on the line from the LEO’s, but even one deputy that posted recognized the importance of our 4th Amendment protections and said he had supported its passage. When I read that many pro-Liberty rants, posted in such a short time span, I start to feel a little better about my fellow countrymen. Apparently even the sheeple have their limits.

  14. The frogs have adapted to the heat of the pot, incrementally raised temperature, based on a plan by those who know EXACTLY what they are doing and “why it works, for THEM”. Whether or not it works for us is irrelevant, until the tipping point of “survival of the majority” is lost and then, “we lose it”. It is “duck and cover” time, stay out of the crossfire, use “plausible deniability” passive resistance:


    The first thing “robbed” was collective intelligence by central control and subversion of education and media. Now, THEY go for your jugular, the whole point. This has been going on for at least a century+. There is not much time left to notice and “course correct”

    As to collective intelligence, read this thread and I “rest my case”.

  15. I did read the posting about the two-teens at the stop lights scareing people with a cap gun in the 1980s. If they tried that in Flint and Saginaw MI now they would be dead, but not by the cops. We are having a rash of car to car shootings and wounding of a five year old girl . And if the teens would get away, they would be hunted down and killed , but not by the cops.

  16. Oh, and a quick rant — it makes my blood boil every time I hear a tax feeder call himself a “sheepdog,” herding and protecting us from the wolves because we’re too stupid and helpless to do it ourselves. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve gone to the range and outshot the cop in the next lane over, my shooting trips would pay for themselves.

    • Yup – and this:

      I have lots of guns. I carry a gun with me almost everywhere. But never in my life have I ever pointed a gun at another person or even threatened to.

      Unlike a cop.

  17. The police have basically given up any pretense of serving the people and concentrate mostly on serving the hand that feeds them. The drug war is fought because Pfizer, Merck, etc, would never be able to make a profit peddling their mood-altering tablets if people were able to go smoke weed, eat mushrooms, or even shoot up. They sometimes enforce laws about violent crimes against people, but will turn around and arrest anyone who insists on having the means of self-defense without a state-approved license. When they finally get armed military-grade drones (that’s coming), I dread the thought of how willing they’re going to be to drop a Hellfire on a house they “think” has bank robbers inside — sorry about the two-year old that’s taking a nap and had the wrong parents.

    • Eric Blair’s(George Orwell)father Richard worked for the Opium Department of the Indian Civil Service. Neither ever tried the stuff or even knew anyone who did.

      People who live in Casino Towns Vegas & Atlantic City with 24 hour drinking and gambling have no higher rates of drinking and gambling than anywhere else. So also there is no difference of personal habits in regions with small state licensed opium growing operations like there is in Northern India.

      In India, opium is collected by farmers who are licensed to grow a quarter acre of opium poppies, and who are required to sell at least 56 kilograms of unadulterated raw opium paste in order to retain their licenses.

      The price of opium paste in India is fixed by the government according to the quality and quantity tendered. The average is around $29 US per kilogram. Some additional money can be raised by drying the poppy heads and collecting poppy seeds. A small fraction of opium beyond the quota is available to be consumed locally or diverted to external black markets. The opium paste is dried and processed into government opium and alkaloid factories before it is packed into cases of 60 kilograms for export.

      There is no difference in drug use of these “drug crop” areas than in areas where tapioca or other crops are raised. It is the American minds that are the real casualties of the Baskins & Blackwaters 31 flavors of total war about 31 flavors of completely non-aggressive issues.

      • Thoughtful post! I get tired of all the arguments of “Well, if drugs were legal, more people would use them!” First off, it doesn’t matter who would or wouldn’t use it — it’s their choice. Second, in truth, anyone who wants to use drugs by and large can. People who pretend otherwise are just dirt ignorant about the world, so banning it has no effect but to enrich those who work in the Injustice System.

        • A human is basically a LandShark and all these prohibitions and restrictions have warped us into grinning jack-o-lantern caricatures of schlock-mockeries of pathetic, crippled, and mutated LandSharks which we still are; underneath the thin superglued papier-mâché of lies we are despotically forced to display in public.

        • Dear A Dude,

          I’m sure everybody here remembers this scene from Brian de Palma’s remake of “Scarface.”

          Every time I watch it, it cracks me up.

          Tony Montana is sitting in his tub watching TV, and railing at the TV news anchorman.

          NEWS ANCHORMAN: …the question is how with a small law enforcement budget do you put a dent in an estimated $100 billion a year business? It seems at times all you can do is put your finger in the dike and pray but now we are hearing voices that say the only way we can solve the drug problem is the same way Prohibition was solved. Not by outlawing the substances but by legalizing and taxing them. These voices say that will drive out the organized crime element… (pause for effect) I am not one of those voices.

          TONY MONTANA: (responding) What do you know — you never been right in your life, Vie baby… (to Manny) Guy never fuckin’ tells the truth. It’s the guys like him, the bankers and the politicians who want to keep the coke illegal so’s they can make more money and get the votes to fight the bad guys. They’re the bad guys. They’ll fuck anything for a buck….

          I’m sure none of us goes along with taxing substances after they’ve been made legal, but the scene is hilarious nevertheless.

    • “Mistakes” made in conducting the so-called Drug War are a horror story in their own right.

      America’s Drug War is a legal racket and those responsible for perpetuating such a Crime Against Humanity should be made to feel the sting of Justice. Were the power to administer the sting left to me it would be administered with alacrity. I would show no mercy to those who have violated their Oath of Office.

      • One of the things about the “drug war” that really bothers me is the now-common practice of seizing cash from motorists. Just having a certain sum in cash is now presumed evidence of criminal activity – and gives these sons of bitches legal authority to just take it from you.

        Two years ago, I hopped on my bike to travel 300 miles to buy a truck. My plan was to buy the truck, put the bike in the bed and drive home. I brought the purchase price – $7,200 in cash – with me. I always buy “cash on the barrelhead.”

        Now, if some badge-wearing thug had pulled me over for speeding or some such, discovered the cash, he could have just taken the money – on the theory that I was a drug kingpin of some kind. Then it would have been up to me – at my expense, on my time – to somehow prove the money was “legitimate.”

        I think something like this would push me over the edge.

  18. When my house gets robbed they fill out a standard form and forget it. When one of their sacred banks gets robbed they foam at the mouth. Not only are their tactics evil, so are their priorities.

    Time to “alter or abolish”… and water Mr. Jefferson’s tree.

  19. I think these 40 people were afraid for their lives. They were afraid to sue because of the same reason.
    The fact is those policemen should be fired on the spot without recourse to appeal. Who commanded that detail? Who in fact put themselves before the Bill of Rights and the Constitution? Where is the police department’s Internal Affairs department while all this is going on? Where is the officer of the court called the City Law Director?
    If I were a lawyer defending the actual crook I think I could have the charges dismissed because of unlawful conduct of the police. But that is based on a little something called past cases where judges have actually penalized the police for unlawful behavior in pursuit of a criminal.
    It is too easy for a city law director to look the other way when something like this happens, unless those people involved have their names in the spotlight of public opinion.
    “They” is too neutral. It should have names involved. Such as the names of those in charge of those policemen.
    The state attorney general should be involved to make sure that everything is following the letter of the law in these local jurisdictions. Too many times politicians like to dance around and say this is not my jurisdiction it is the judisdiction below me. When in fact, the buck should stop at the top. There is a chain of command. And these politicians own it.

      • It’s all too familiar. History will never repeat, but will often rhyme, I have observed.

        Vorwärts!(forward) said the German Socialist paper with Friedrich Engels as editor.
        Avanti!(forward) said the Italian Socialists newspaper edited by Mussolini and later burned down by him.
        Foяward! says the Chicago Socialist Mafia Machine of the Obama Socialists.

  20. Re: Overpopulation

    The consequences of stuffing ten pounds of feces into a bag made for one will always be unpleasant . . . and even dangerous.

  21. Americans – millions of them – are stupid, mean, irrational, authoritarian minded Babbits and poltroons. People who speak in “we” – and lust to control others.

    Spot on, Eric, but still too kind. Not your fault, though, since I really don’t think words exist that are venomous enough to describe what the masses of Amoricons (my favorite portmanteau of “American” and “moron”) has degenerated into. The depths of the disgust a liberty lover feels over the current situation just cannot be adequately described.

    On the other hand, what is REALLY frustrating is that in so many of these people who seem so hopelessly, brainlessly, irreversibly addicted to the authoritarian “herd mentality” there is yet a glimmer of recognition of just how un-free they are, yet they cannot seem to take things to the next level. I’ve actually had many conversations with random people about our current “lock-down nation.” Interestingly, the less “educated” these people are (that is, the more of them that are without post-secondary “education”), the more receptive they are to the ideas of liberty. It is those who have been indoctrinated by more than 12 years of statist collectivist garbage who are usually the most hopelessly brainwashed. Sadly, the leap of faith, though not really a very big one, that these people would need to take to experience life without the State is apparently just too big. They are so used to being caged, led, directed, shepherded, “cared for,” advised, legislated, subsidized, underwritten, educated, governed, and otherwise controlled, in whatever form you care to call it, that living as an actual free human being would be too great of a shock to their systems. They don’t realize that they engage in voluntary and mutually beneficial transactions with other human beings every single day of their lives, voluntary transactions that could easily apply to every aspect of life. This cowardice leads them to accept degradation and slavery as a given condition of existence.

    Will such people wake up and smell the aroma of freedom? Who knows, but current trends don’t augur well.

    • The media portrays those who don’t believe in the state as uneducated and stupid. Over and over again.

      There are many educated people who know liberty is the answer. The internet has shown that.

      I think ‘the hassle free zone’ plays a big role. The more “education” a person gets the more he knows what is acceptable socially and what is not. He has a career that can be harmed by having the wrong views. Nobody is going to fire someone blue collar because they have libertarian views. Just a shrug and thinking another uneducated blue collar type. Have a corporate career? Might not go so well.

      • Education and Learning are not synonyms. My formal education ended with the tenth grade while my Learning continued. Today this retired Blue Collar will debate members the so-called educated class anytime, so, bring ’em on.

        I’ve heard whining about not enough education since Sputnik one*. But consider this: Who but the formally educated class has brought America to its present state of impending ruin?

        Now that there are PCs and/or Macs in nearly every home in America, perhaps it’s time to rethink so-called education. Is it really necessary to maintain the present expensive educational infrastructure that does not seem to be working all that well? Judging from what it continues to produce, perhaps America’s education system should simply be called: THE ANUS.


        *As boosters go, it doesn’t get much more primitive than the clustered crap that panicked educated America by boosting a beeping grapefruit-sized Sputnik and later an unfortunate dog into orbit. For what did the poor Laika die?

        • Education and Learning are not synonyms.

          Bingo! (In fact, they’re more and more the polar opposite of one another.) I probably should have made that point clearer in my original post.

          Thanks, TGS.

    • I’m not optimistic, either. For similar reasons.

      Like you, I have had exhaustive (and exhausting) conversations with countless people – some of them probably a lot smarter than I in terms of raw IQ – who just can’t connect the dots. Or don’t care to.

      The problem is as much psychological as it is intellectual. There may just be a defective sub-species of human being, homo servilus who – much like a bee in a hive – is programmed to crave the collective (and therefore accepts its corollary – coercion).

      It’s very easy to get these people to reveal their true natures. Their meanness. Just let them know, for example, that you find sports worship disgusting. Or that you don’t subscribe to any particular religious doctrine. Let them discover that you don’t feel obliged to pay more taxes for “our children” – only an obligation to take care of your own children. Criticize war. Make a negative comment about cops.

      I’m going to do all I can to shut out any Fourth of July idiocy – a practice I’ve been following for several years now.

      • I used to go fishing on the fourth of july.

        Three years in a row I had an armed DNR guy interrogate me about what I was doing and demanded my papers, er I mean fishing license, while looking over my stuff.
        The rest of the year I would not be bothered by them.
        The symbolism of that wasn’t lost on me.

        So I stopped.

        I miss fishing, but I don’t miss encounters with the DNR.

        I usually just stay home on the fourth of july these days and do things around the place while minding my own business.

        I imagine that’s what everyone else here does on the fourth of july too?
        Or is there something else?

        One year (just for fun?) I went for a drive and counted the number of cops along the senic route.

        Wow, were there a lot of them, parked, hidden and partolling like on no other day.

        • I used to reside on a Lake in NY, 1.5 miles wide, 9 miles long.. this goes back to 2000, when .Gov really ramped up

          Any Holiday Weekend was a free-for-all Cop wise

          2 Police boats, Dept. of Enviornmental Conservation, Parks Dept, and once..

          even the freakin’ COAST GUARD

          now WTH do they have to do with an Inland Lake ..??

          sooo …

          with 6 -7 Enforcement Agency’s vying for your $$$

          we chose to take a “time out” on Holidays

          sad, isn’t it ..?

          • It’s very sad. Overpopulation and excessive government have spoiled many things that once were fun.


          • The shotgun shepherds are always tending their flocks. They make sure you are in the right corral and that you don’t forget about Old Mcdonald. Second-Hander Americans derive their self-worth from being the proud founder and head of the E-I-E-I-O world animal control alliance.

      • Homo-servilus indeed! People WANT to be slaves… it is the nature of the masses…

        Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness. (Exodus 14:12)

        • This, of course, is also the view of the elites. Unfortunately for us, we don’t want to be slaves – or a controlling elite, either. Thus we are fish out of water. At odds with both the masses – and the elites.

          • This view seems to come up over and over; that there are essentially three archetypes of human, which are the subservient “slave” type, the elite “dominant” type and the free individual. I don’t see it.

            The master/slave – dominant/submissive is a continuum. For every slave there is a master and vice verse. If you play that game at all you accept a master. The game is played to acquire slaves and limit masters, but it can never be won.

            The individual simply doesn’t play the game the same way. The goal is only to eliminate masters, with no attempt made to gain slaves. I think there are only two distinct strategies represented.

  22. Yeesh, I was dueling with a warmongering Hamiltonian warmonger on SHTFPlan and he would ALways use the word “WE” a shitload of times.

    I was hoping others would notice that B.S.

    Mike in Spotsy’s comment is Perfect.

      • Yes, me too. Using those collective pronouns muddles the conversation. It keeps it vague and omits the details while sounding meaningful. It’s not.

  23. Whenever I encounter the word “we” a little warning buzzer goes off in my gourd and I think: Lynch mob!

  24. Did any of you guys catch the article on the two letter word that undermines just about everything.


    This article is so 100% spot on. After reading it I realized just how often I use this word out of context. I often say “we” when I am referring to the West or our Government. For instance “we” decided to attack Iraq”. Now why in the fork would I say “we”? I didn’t decide to attack Iraq, so why should I include myself and everyone else in “we”? We need to do something about such and such. Well no, how about YOU do something about it? How about I do something about it?

    For instance I shouldn’t let them search MY car without a warrant!

    • Yeah Brad, that article really hit home for me. IIRC about ’96 is when I really woke up to this “we” did this or that mentality. Now when I hear someone say “we” sent troops over there or “our” government is doing this or that, I correct them. If I catch myself slipping, I immediately correct myself with “the criminals in DC” sent troops over there or “the federal government” is doing this or that. And I often season it a bit with “By the way, did you know there is over a trillion dollars worth of lithium in the mountains of Afghanistan?” Then I display my cell phone and point out that practically every one of them has a lithium ion battery now. Next I ask if they realize that the Chinese bribed the Afghani minister of the interior for a pipeline route shortly before the US gun-vernment decided that a bunch of goat herders with Kalashnikovs were suddenly an imminent threat to “our Homeland”. Then I ask, “Exactly what was it again that any Afghani ever did to you or me?” It wakes a lot of folks up when you put it that way. So class, your homework assignment is to make a conscious effort stop using “we” when referring to any of the criminal behavior “the” government engages in with money stolen from us at gunpoint. Extra credit will be given for explaining why. 😉

      • I have been using “the federal government” and other such terms for quite some time now. To the point where some have become annoyed with it.

        The language needs to be corrected. The state, government, is an institution, a corporation that the ruling class controls.

        When kings and such ruled, it was a family business. Today it is a corporation. A way that some people can have the benefit of being the ruling class without any personal obligation for the failures. A costly war could result in a bankrupt king. Today’s ruling class is smarter. Their wealth is not the line thanks to incorporating ruling over people into the state.

        Getting people to understand this first requires breaking this ‘we’ nonsense. Nobody uses ‘we’ for walmart, mcdonalds, or any other corporation even if they work for it. Same should be true for government.

        • I go one step further, Brent: a federal government would be one in which the states have power. Since that is no longer the case, I refer to the monstrosity in DC as the central government.

      • Boothe, your “we” rant was perfect too.

        … Only, Mass-man doesn’t do well at explaining the “why”. Causes a short circuit.

    • That is a great article, Brad. I read it on LRC the other day and resolved to avoid the “W” word from now on.

      A related word used by politicians is “our”, which of course is the possessive form of “we”. The most egregious example is when they advocate some measure for “our children”. WTF? I swear I have never fathered a child with any politician, so how could they possibly consider my kids as “our” children?

      For an interesting perspective on the word “we”, I highly recommend Ayn Rand’s short novel “Anthem”. It deals with a future society in which all individuality has been stamped out, and everyone thinks and speaks in terms of “we” and would never consider using “I”.

      • It is also evident whenever anyone speaks of another country. We always treat them as a collective too.

        Iraq invaded Kuwait. No, Saddam and his minions invaded the country of Kuwait. The Iraqi people had nothing to do with it nor did the Kuwaiti people.

        The U.S. doesn’t occupy Afghanistan, the U.S. military does. It has nothing to do with the American people. We are not all in this together. As the Pakistani women told Hillary: this is not our war, it’s yours forced upon us.

  25. You know Eric, it’s depressing to read these stories, but there are counter examples. It’s easy to lose track of that, and promoting only one side of the story can actually undermine rather than strengthen the resolve of the more independent folks who do “rage against the machine”. It’s kind of unfortunate that Chinese seem to be doing more active resisting than Americans, but then they’ve had a little more time to practice.

    Meanwhile, Obama openly defies a Federal Court’s injunction against the NDAA on grounds it really is unconstitutional no matter what his quisling Justice Department says. Depressing? Yes, but the upside is there was a hearing and an injunction was issued. Maybe not a blazing torch in the darkness, but at least a candle. Cheer up.

    • That is a good point to make. I have pointed out a few examples in Michigan. For instance, medical MJ, no more helmet law, fireworks are now legal, it’s easy to get a concealed weapons permit. I know that sometimes it feels like it’s one step forward and two steps back, but it is something.

      I don’t vote, but at times I will back a political cause. I know it seems kind of ignorant, but as I know many people will not protest openly against voting I do back some things. If people feel they must vote I do my best to get them to vote for liberty. For instance I donated a Fender Strat that I had custom painted for a Ron Paul fundraiser.

      I also helped my friend Linda Goldthorpe in her effort to defeat Bart Stupak. We didn’t win, but we woke a lot of people up. She does pro-bono legal work (you can guess how we met) She was also backed by Ron Paul. She is a homeschooler and a Constitutionalist. She is just an all around great lady with tons of guts.


      • Scott wrote, “but there are counter examples.”

        uh huh, right.

        It ain’t shit.

        Seriously, as if not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle makes up for tazering pregnant women and burning People alive in their homes for standing their ground.

        Scott wrote, “the upside is there was a hearing and an injunction was issued.”

        Dude, that ain’t jack shit.
        It’s meaningless.

        It’s nothing. It’s flap-jawing that amounts to nothing.

        Brad Smith writes, “I have pointed out a few examples in Michigan. For instance, medical MJ, no more helmet law, fireworks are now legal, it’s easy to get a concealed weapons permit. I know that sometimes it feels like it’s one step forward and two steps back, but it is something.”

        No dude, it’s nothing.

        The war against some drugs continues.
        Other bullshit actions continue on all the other categories. You’re being “mothered”… all of us are.

        Are you guys yelling, “Americans are free!”?

        HA! As fucking IF!

        For every firecracker that doesn’t result in a ticket, there’s A Blasphemy Conviction in Kansas


        In your state too, the machine marches on, it just seems like it’s a less weighty step, but for those in your state being stepped on, the boot feels as heavy as ever.

        I watched a film from the 1980’s recently, it reminded me how un-free we all are. I know, cause I felt VERY free in the 1980’s compared to now. Way.

        I can’t imagine how those of the 1970’s generation must feel, but I can kind of relate.

        /rant off.

        • “I watched a film from the 1980′s recently, it reminded me how un-free we all are. I know, cause I felt VERY free in the 1980′s compared to now. Way.”

          Me too.

          Just being able to go where you wanted, whenever, unmolested – legally entitled to be left alone – is one of the huge differences between Then and Now.

          Cops had to have a specific reason – probable cause – to stop you. If they didn’t and stopped you anyway, the law was on your side. And regardless, the culture was different: In general, they just left you alone. If you could have shown people from 1984 – the year I graduated high school – that it would be a routine thing to randomly stop masses of people, frisk them, search their vehicles and demand their papers; that government goons would paw your crotch at airports or force you to walk hands-up, I surrender, through a scanner – they’d either have never believed it or believed America had become the Soviet Union.

          Well, here we are.

          • Cops had to have a specific reason – probable cause – to stop you. If they didn’t and stopped you anyway, the law was on your side.

            Actually, the law still is on your side. The problem is that the black-robed criminals who have hijacked the mechanism for adjudicating the law, along with their toady henchmen (a.k.a. prosecutors) have been undermining it – unlawfully, of course. They get away with it by being able to count upon the fact that the mass of Amoricons, as you’ve pointed out, are so ignorant and so compliant that those of us who are ready and willing to do what needs to be done (hint: it involves removing these people from their sinecures, preferably peacefully, but through other means if that’s not feasible) are a distinct minority.

            Bottom line: Until that “goddamn piece of paper,” as the Bushtard put it, is formally burned on the steps of the Supreme Court, the law is still the law – even if those charged with upholding and safeguarding it have been criminally negligent in their duties.

          • Eric, I was in the class of ’80, not too far in front of you, and couldn’t have ever imagined metal detectors in schools, etc. Going to the airport just to hang around and look at the planes taking off and landing was actually “fun” back then. Now, just like Soylent Green, the fascist-corporatist government makes even that seem like a visit to prison.

            • Ditto.

              I grew up in the DC area; we used to go to Dulles and do just that – watch the planes, check stuff out. You could walk right in – right up to the gates – no one hassled you. It was nice. That America got pissed away – not by “the ragheads,” who never took a single freedom from me – but by my fellow Americans, who fear phantom “terrorists” more than the actually terroristic government. Despicable. May their chains rest heavily upon them.

          • wrong, sorry

            a Cop needs ” Reasonable Suspicion ” that a Crime has been committed to “detain”…eerrr.. Arrest You

        • The 1980s with the war on drugs and the late 1970’s reaction to allegedly lax treatment of criminals began the process of eroding freedoms. The 55 mph speed limit also contributed to a lot of this. Having laws virtually no one can obey, classifying many as criminals was part of the conditioning that was taking place. What was unbelievable at the time was that people actually publicly loved the double nickel while breaking it at will.

          I didn’t really feel free in the 1980’s and feel a lot less free today. Any encounter with law enforcement is life threatening, something that it likely wasn’t back then. Supreme court decisions that allow cops to beat up on people, be immune from lawsuits, and to violate the 4th amendment continue to be handed down.

          I have this foreboding feeling that things won’t get better in my lifetime and in fact will get worse. I believe that America’s best times left us in 1981, the year Reagan took office. I liked Reagan, but I also believe that the assassination attempt changed his presidency for the worse over time.

          If you really want to see how times have changed, pick out an episode of the Rockford Files from the 1970s and see how differently the cops and citizens were portrayed back then. Back then, cops were portrayed as public servants, not public tyrants.

          I hate what this country has become.

          • I got my license in 1980 and my first speeding ticket the same year. I remember from that first citation feeling abused. I remember wondering who I had hurt, what had I done wrong and so why was I being punished?

            On another note, that same year me and some friends egged a teacher’s house. We got caught and were taken “downtown” by the police. They gave us a stern talking to and let us go.

            If that would happen today those kids would be in handcuffs, at gun point, thrown in jail and tried as adults probably.

            • True story:

              In the early ’80s, when I was about 16 or 17, I was out driving around with my friend John. He had a great “war face,” if you know what I mean. Anyhow, we were two bored teenagers, out cruising in my Dad’s Camaro. To cure our boredom, we played a game. This game involved John’s war face – and a cap gun that looked like a .38 special. We’d pull up to another car at a light. John would give the guy in the other car his war face – and (slowly) pull the cap gun into view. Whereupon the guy in the other car would go bug-eyed, shit his pants and peel rubber outta there (or some combination of that). We’d piss ourselves laughing.

              Stupid teenage boys, that was us. But we meant no harm.

              Well, we did it a few times, got bored, stopped – and decided to go to a record store (remember, ’80s) to look at records.

              When we come out, there are five or six cop cars in the parking lot – all focused on my Dad’s car. At first, the situation is (to quote the fake OJ caller to Sam Donaldson) very tenses. But in short order, after we produce the fake gun, the cops realize we’re just idiot teenagers – not armed desperados. We get yelled at for a couple of minutes, but then are let go. Not even a ticket. No gun was drawn on us. No handcuffs. That’s it.

              And that’s the difference between then and now.

              I have an even better story I may spill about, too….

  26. What a perfect title: The police state is not only here – it is being welcomed with open arms.

    I don’t know which freaks me out more, the fact we’re in/going into a police state, or the fact that such is welcomed with applause.

    Your final photo was just about as fitting as a photo as there ever was, imho.

    Somehow though, it leaves out the ideas behind this photo and the emotions and feelings that go along with it:


    The People truly Do love the state more than their own children.

    It’s odd how, of the few People I still know from my youth, the Gen X [wow, what a loaded Logan’s Run kind of statement “Gen X” is?] the ones who vocalize about using the bully-whip of the state to crack down on freedom/liberty and competition – most of them, that’s doubly bizzare – were the ones I considered to be the most wild and lawless when we were young. WHAT happened to them?

    I’ve read often the same is said of the 1960’s generation. I guess the more things change, the more things really do stay the same.

    … until the crack-up-boom, that is.

    • Clark, I think the Gen X attitude is “we don’t want those who come after us to make the same mistakes”. This was the attitude of the Baby Boomers before them. It’s the attitude of overweening parents towards their children.

      It seems clear to me now that the state is really the authoritarian, my-children-are-my-property kind of family writ large. This means the roots of the state go down a lot deeper than even most libertarians realize. Unfortunately, it also means our work is doubly cut out for us.

  27. This article completely undermined my belief that Americans will one day hit the streets in armed resistance to the state once a certain line is crossed.

    Well truth be told it’s been crumbling for a long time, as it’s become obvious to me that the line was crossed long ago and nobody even noticed. But this?

    People who applaud the actions of officers who drag them from their cars at gunpoint and detain them will probably offer coffee to the thugs that come to their homes to disarm them and thank the guards at the FEMA camps for their service. Good Germans to the ugly end.

    May their chains rest lightly upon them…

    • “That line”… there is no line, for most People, imho. Such as you describe anyway.

      So long as Mass-man can still get his, he’s A-ok with… whatever.

      So long as Mass-man can still get that precious overtime at work and the paycheck still buys close to what it does now (or just enough?) it’s go-along-to-get-along time.

      The Austrian “crack-up-boom” is just about the Only thing which will change things, short of some kind of manipulated uprising and coup like they had in 1776. (See G. North about that.) And that’s no change at all.

      Do you think those drivers who were handcuffed would have been so compliant if they didn’t have jobs and the money they did get didn’t go far enough? I think that is the key. All the drivers I saw looked like they were on the way to work or had employed parents – having a car isn’t cheap, and that’s the first clue about these People. Their job and social status depended upon them being compliant.

      And that sucks. Cause it means (most) Americans/People don’t have backbone, contrary to what myths we’ve been fed our whole lives.

      My guess is, we’ll be led by the young and the old, cause they are the ones who will feel the effects from a crack-up-boom first.
      Take a look at (Stockton?) California and San Diego, do you think the goberment employees are going to be happy about having their plush benefits cut or having no job? THAT is a compliance sucker, and THAT is a good thing,… done in a hard way. Add in a dash of time like that and you have the recipe you’re thinking of.

      … Only, the People won’t have to do anything, the over-weighted monster will collapse from it own weight. What happens after that is the big question. …And how long it all takes.
      However; that time thing might mean there’s a period of chains.

      • I disagree an Austrian “crack up boom” will be a solution. ‘d even go so far as to say it’s part of the plan.

        Take away the jobs and “just enough to get by”, then herd the masses into government housing with rationed food. You’ll see levels of compliance like you’ve never seen before.

        Will there be holdouts? Maybe, but when the FDA shuts down your subsistence farm and makes it illegal for you to drink the unpasteurized milk from your goat and takes 50 percent of your harvest in taxes, you’re going to have a hard time of it, and that assumes you’re even able to subsistence farm.

        No, the smart money is moving. It’s over for America. This is a country of debtors and unless you want to be thrown into the camps to pay for the BMW your neighbor bought on credit you should be looking for another place to live.

        • Seems to me, the nature of a crack-up-boom removes the ability for “them” to herd the masses into government housing with rationed food.

          After a crack-up-boom the FDA will no longer have the ability to shut down your subsistence farm or make Anything illegal. That’s the nature of crack-up-booms, imho.

          Things might get to be like they are in Greece now, for awhile, this is Prior to a crack-up-boom, but after that, the old Soviet Union is the template.

          What soldier/cop will do anything for the Empire if their paycheck buys next to nothing and the benefits are worthless lies?

          Time will tell.

          And was this ever an interesting thread.

          Also, where you moving to?

          • The crack up can go two ways:

            1) the government is broke and closes up shop.
            2) the government doubles down with violence and takes what it can get.

            The FDA plays an important role for 2)

            The soviet union went quietly because Gorby made it go that way. I don’t think Obama, Romney or anyone else likely to hold the office any time soon given the present conditioning of the people is likely to stand up to the powers that be and do 1).

            US history does not show government is likely to pack up shop and go away. Those that have taken control of government have shown they aren’t likely to do that either. I can hope for 1) but everything points to 2). DHS didn’t buy all those bullets for nothing.

          • What happens, ultimately, depends on the character of the people.

            The Soviets, at least, have long had a streak of toughness – of “get it done.” They are a people with tremendous endurance and not to be fucked with.

            But Americans?

            Look at them.

            Cattle. Steers. No, dairy cows. Moooooooo! A people that reflexively defers to authority – willingly, worshipfully. A people that will happily submit to the most despicable degradation if it will “keep them safe.”

            The Soviets were not like that. They hated the government. The average American loves his. He is proud to be an American… and really does believe he’s free.

            It does not bode well.

          • It is indeed an interesting thread. I was sidetracked yesterday and just read this but Brent summarized the options and also leans towards my prognosis; the crack up boom will lead to “we’re the government and we’re here to help”, which most Americans will flock towards. People will move into FEMA camps with vigor– they will fight for the privilege. Once there, they will be put to good use dong WPA like jobs in return for food, water and shelter. I’m afraid this is how I see it going down. I realize it’s bleak, but consider this; America, by and large, owes money to someone. The soul of America was sold during the last decade of the 20th century; people margined themselves into massive debt during that decade, which was like none other in the history of the country. The debt will come due, and when it does there will be debtor’s prison and perhaps two or more generations will pay that debt.

            I have no debt. I haven’t ever lived beyond my means and my guess is nobody who comments on this site (or writes for it) ever has in any significant way. I do carry some debt, but I have assets that would allow me to pay it off tenfold tomorrow if need be. That’s what makes us unique. It’s also what makes it possible for us to get out of Dodge before the SHTF. There are countries that will welcome us.

            Will I lose in the proposition? Absolutely, and that’s the only reason I’m still here. I’ve invested 40 years and a lot of money in developing things I can’t take with me; friends, houses, farms, livestock. They will be liquidated at bargain basement prices when I leave and that makes me unhappy but what really makes me sad is they represent a life’s work I’ll never be able to repeat.

            Where? I think South America but other times I think Eastern Europe, which is where my ancestors come from. I can’t say I’ve made up my mind yet.

        • I’ve come to the same conclusion; America is lost, time to get out.

          For every ray of hope I get from talking to someone else who’s taken the red pill, I see five or ten incidents of sheepledom–like the 40 “investigatively detained” displaying their Stockholm syndrome.

          People who aren’t aware but aren’t actively for the state are living a sort of dreamlike existence; they imagine it will all be OK. Confirmation bias, normality bias–the ability of the human mind to draw a line between yesterday and today to project tomorrow have no idea of what’s coming.

          I just got back from a week in the sunny Mexican Riviera Maya south of Cancun. Had some interesting conversations; for instance, there’s no drug violence in Cancun despite tons of cocaine and ecstasy flowing through…because the gunverment and their more honorable partners the dealers have struck an accord: no violence, no enforcement.

          It’s a more free country than the US. The only thing that stops me moving there are their draconian gun laws.

          I’m actively looking. I don’t want to subject my kids to the hell that is going to transpire here in the next 5-10 years.

    • The line was crossed early in the Twentieth Century with the Harrison Act and also with the Sixteenth Amendment.

      • Tinsley, now you know that the Gun-vernment couldn’t let all those nasty “robber barons” and other “wealthy” scum (especially widows and orphans with trust funds) keep all that dividend money for themselves. Letting people keep gains made with their own money and savvy just wouldn’t be fair and equitable, now would it? So they *had* to pass the 16th Amendment (and do it so sloppily that there are those still questioning if it was actually ratified). After all if you want put the camel in the tent, you’ve got to get his nose under the flap to start with. Looks like we’ve got a whole heard of stinky federal dromedaries camped out with us now and at our expense.

        I was having a discussion about the income tax with an older couple in the aisle of a store a couple of years ago. I was pointing out how taxation is merely theft in varying degrees and that exchanging our labor for other commodities (money being one of them) is not only our right, but an even swap; hence no profit. Since the income tax was originally intended (supposedly) to tax corporate profits (corporations being a creature of the state and therefore subject to the will of the state), applying it to an individual’s wages is involuntary servitude and a clear violation of our rights. They were nodding in agreement to everything I was pointing out (because it was the plain truth).

        About that time this stocky no neck loudmouth walks up and obnoxiously interjects himself into our conversation with “Well you’re obviously more intelligent than I am, but everyone’s gotta’ pay their taxes. I’m a business man and I pay my taxes…” So I asked him if he didn’t believe that men with guns would come to his house, lock him up and take his stuff would he still pay the income tax? He sidestepped the issue with the typical ‘well you gotta’ have a government and cops and roads and such…’ and got so loud and obnoxious the couple I’d been talking to simply walked away and so did I. The only thing I can figure is his ‘business’ must rely on government largess to exist.

        He’d be one of the one’s standing there in handcuffs at the intersection inviting the cops out for coffee when they were done and thanking them for “their service.” If you tried to tell your fellow kidnapping victims at that intersection that their rights were being violated and were explaining it to them clearly and simply, it would be some round brown fuzzy moron like that screeching that you were “un-Amurrican” and probably some kind of “terrorist.” Frankly these days, the limp wristed simpering panty-waists that pass for my fellow countrymen deserve what they’re getting at the hands of their “public servants.” With the seeming popular approval of how our public servants “serve and protect”, we ought to just start calling wife beaters “attentive husbands” and child molesters “sex education specialists”.

        • Boothe wrote, “I was having a discussion about the income tax with an older couple in the aisle of a store a couple of years ago.”


          Boothe wrote, “He’d be one of the one’s standing there in handcuffs at the intersection inviting the cops out for coffee when they were done and thanking them for “their service.””

          And that there is Da problem. The wimpification of America.

          Boothe wrote, “screeching that you were “un-Amurrican” and probably some kind of “terrorist.””

          Yup,… Americans have gone bat-shit crazy.

          • Crazy?

            I wish it were only that.

            Crazy is a form of innocence.

            Americans – millions of them – are stupid, mean, irrational, authoritarian minded Babbits and poltroons. People who speak in “we” – and lust to control others.

            Outside of this board, it is extremely difficult to find people of goodwill who “don’t want nothin’ from no one, if they can’t get it on their own” and who believe that “if you don’t like the way I’m living, you just leave this long-haired country boy alone.”

            And who are willing to extend the same courtesy on return.

        • So they *had* to pass the 16th Amendment (and do it so sloppily that there are those still questioning if it was actually ratified).

          It wasn’t properly ratified, just as the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments also weren’t properly ratified either (i.e., the recently vanquished Southern States were forced at gunpoint –literally– to ratify these amendments).

        • Eliminate the IRS. Each level of government, from Corn Hole Arkansas to Washington D.C., should be financed from a single sales tax:

          Buyer to Seller.

          Seller to County.

          County to State and.

          State to National.

  28. Things being what they are, there can be no individual winners who would resist such trampling of their clear constitutional rights. Only victims: more than likely of the forgotten or dead variety.

    Thus, it becomes a matter of individual choice. Which of us, when caught up in such a circumstance, will choose to resist–even passively–and risk physical retaliation, imprisonment, death or any combination thereof? Without any significant support from our respective communities.

    Any victory will accrue to a generation just born or, more likely, not yet born. Those who take the ultimate risks and make the ultimate sacrifices to bring that victory about will remain unheralded, if not unknown.

    Which of us will stand for such martyrdom?

  29. Soooooo true. Kinds goes back to what I have said about feeling free versus being free. None of those motorists protested, because they did not “feel” they had their rights violated. This was accomplished through years of conditioning; having ones rights constantly violated in public schools, public roads, public finances like with the income tax, constantly being monitored, watched, having your calls monitored even texts, so really no one felt a shred of dismay or terror when they finally slap the cuffs on with no justification. There really is a nihilistic feeling of the inevitability here.

  30. It’s A Wonderful Life of a Different Kind.

    Neighborfag didn’t like jorge’s parenting skills, so he sees something says something, ups a vid, and now the police are after him. Fuck U Muntant Puritan Boatpeople. America sucks now, from the Califaggit Redwoods to the Bloombitch Islands.

    Wait until there’s 100,000s of Drones guaranteed to be their in 3o seconds or less or your beatings and taserings are free.

    Liveleak which has replaced Wikileaks starts to show it’s true JINGO color. Welcome to the World Wide Police Party. WOOT WOOT.


    Liveleak is run by a British soldierfag / Mi5 or whatevathefuk. Retired or active duty not sure. Anyone invent some new Wile E. Coyote shit and they’ll get a unrefusable offer from the ACME Aquisitions Agency.

    There’s a vid of him talking with a Nato Commander discussing his channel somewhere.

    It’s A Wonderful Life. Everyone sing, its the law. You’re money’s not in the bank ya see. Mildred dowry’s used to by drones to kill African peasants…

    • Tor:

      Just watched the video. Good link.

      Also just watched this one titled “Police Brutality in Long Beach”


      One of the comments (almost all are various shades of this):

      “Funny how these videos never show the full story…

      Love how he finally says ok ok and begins to comply, bloody rights they tased his ass, comply in the first place and it never would have never happened.”

      “Comply in the first place…”

      If that doesn’t say it all…

      • That vid shows our prison life experience for what it is. Comply or Cry. 3 strikes & then Comply or Die. No one cares if a shoplifter dies in custody. He’s a criminal, not somebody’s child. If you don’t like it here go somewhere else, probably the morgue, the barking old rabid Cujos demand their peace and quiet.

        I reject their story. I could care less if the constitution, statue of liberty, George Washington’s girdle, monumnents to the WWII Bands of Butchers, and everything else is shipped to Yucca Mountain & detonated with a 100 nuclear warheads. I hope all the Capitol buildings are sold to Arab’s to pay off our debts and get converted into Mosques.

        At least in longtime authoritarian nations like UK or France, there’s a subtle level of force before it gets physical.
        There’s an understanding that you’re punching your own face and beating yourself using state violence.
        The US is now totalitarian, all about lying to maintain our boast that we are better than authoritarianism.
        Through Media & the other five monopolies discussed on Infowars, Reality is manipulated to preserve America’s reputation.
        It’s plain to see our underlying character far less than any of the authoritarians, and it’s sinking even lower fast.

        We’re all flying on Con Air

        But that doesn’t really matter.

        All our lives, we’re on a nonstop flight around a star 500 lightseconds away
        We’ve been flying since way before the latest terrorists hijacked it
        If you have the will you can buy a stewardess a few drinks
        Maybe get her to do the mile high thing behind a curtain out of sight
        It stops mattering if you’re in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd class, as long as you get plenty of curtain time
        Eventually the seeds of determination grow and you get a few kids that fly free
        They leverage your will and maybe you combine 2nd & 3rd class and the entire 3rd class section is used for curtain time
        Words can be weapons that immobilize and incapacitate anyone who wants to stop my flightplan from being executed

        Stevie Wonder Pastime Paradise
        The Soul of America -Motown- 1st Detroit; Then LA Exile; Then NY Diaspora; & Now Supermax District 12

        They’ve been spending most their lives
        Keeping up a policestate paradise
        They’ve been working most their lives
        On a government gangster paradise
        They’ve been wasting most our lives
        Glorifying days long gone behind
        They’ve been wasting most our days
        Casting parts in extermination plays
        Tell me who of them will you come to be
        And how many of them are you and me

        They’ve been spreading most their lies
        About a future hightech paradise
        They’ve been wasting most their lives
        Dreaming of a future paradise
        They’ve been looking in their minds
        For the day that sorrow’s gone from time
        They keep telling of the day
        When the joys of life will come to stay
        Tell me who of them will you come to be
        And how many of them are you and me

        Gotta start living our own lives
        Making each day our own paradise
        Praise be to our chosen lives
        Living in our selfmade paradise
        Shame to anyones lives
        Living in policestate paradise

  31. The police said they were in pursuit of a dangerous man. So, in order to catch this dangerous man so he cannot threaten the well being of the citizens, the cops point loaded, deadly weapons at the citizens, threatening their well being.

    Once again, the gov’t has a monopoly on crime and uses that monopoly to break the law in the name of enforcing the law.

    And if the guy were to get away? So what. Were they afraid they’d never find him? Doesn’t the gov’t insure the banks? After all it’s only money. Were those people’s lives worth the cash?

    It’s all absurd.

    • The idea that money or an object can be replaced is only used to convince people to submit to aggression. To get people to submit to criminals and ultimately IMO submit to the state. If people stand up to robbery they might stand up to taxes because as we know they are with little exception*, the same thing. We must be trained to accept theft, to submit to it, that it is not worth it to fight.

      Government however does not and will never take robbery from it or its friends (banks) lightly. How replaceable what is taken is doesn’t matter. It’s a matter of not submitting to their power. There is no price too high (especially when it’s just the lives and property of the mundanes) to keep power and make sure people know they cannot at any level act against the state and its friends.

      Once one person gets away with it, others may try. If others try their way of life could collapse.

      It all makes perfect sense from their point of view. All very logical and rational.

      *some taxes are better described as user fees, government monopoly would then be the issue.

    • See, that is another perceptual trick. People don’t feel threatened by the police, when they should. That is one *ucked up thing…. when the police point guns at people, they feel safe….. when really they should feel threatened. I don’t care who points a gun at me, I am scared.

  32. The compliance of the masses is the result of a century of government schools. The cops and the people behaved exactly the way people are conditioned in the government schools.

    We are one mass controlled by authority. If anyone of us misbehaves we all will be punished. The rules will become more and more restrictive for all each time an individual gets out of line.

    Only respect for my property and the property of others would have kept me from ramming my way out of there. Locking the car up and walking away would have been very possible.

    • Amen brother. Please understand though they would steal your car, probably charge you with a crime for leaving it there, probably torture you with a gazer after you walked away….. Maybe this is weak, I would turn the other cheek, let em’s hand cuff me. Of course before hand I would ask if I was being detained, and if so what crime I had committed, ultimately answer no questions, ask for a lawyer and tell them I am scared and am going to remain SILENT.

          • An “Edit” button?

            Amen to that! An Edit button is a very good idea.

            Yeah, yeah, I know. We can always compose our messages offline, then paste them in. In theory that should be enough.

            But trust me, one millisecond after you click the Post button, you will invariably have a flash of insight about what you coulda, shoulda, woulda said instead.


            If it’s at all possible Eric, please add an “Edit” button.

      • One of the things that I find absurd is that for those of us who aren’t “good people” interactions with cops is a complex legal game with rules that are really only known to people who are in these situations every day.

        As much as I review the rules of these games I don’t remember all details and moves because I don’t do them every day. However a few are beginning to stick. I would not say anything to the cop but ask if I am under arrest and if I am free to go. This would at least establish I am being kept against my will.

    • “The compliance of the masses is the result of a century of government schools.” Great point. You do realize that turning out compliant citizens is the central purpose of the school system? If you want to be really scared, check out the writings of John Taylor Gatto. He was named the New York state teacher of the year, right before he resigned due to his realizing what the school system was really all about.

      • Yes I do realize it and I’ve read much of his writing. It was after I read his writings that my school experiences started making sense.

        • Great observation, Brent. Much of the schooling process really doesn’t make sense until you view it from the perspective that Gatto provides.

          I just wish most people would read his stuff. That could start a movement.

          • The sad –and scary– thing is that “private” schools, for the most part, aren’t much better. Most of them, especially those belonging to a religious order, teach the same blind obedience to the State that the public schools do.

            Home schooling your kids is TRULY the only way to go.

          • Yes, liberranter, home schooling is the way to go. The private schools employ teachers who have been through the same college curriculum as public school teachers (i.e., indoctrinated into collective thought processes) and use the same approved textbooks as public schools (i.e., thoroughly imbued with collective, politically correct content).

            • I also would home school. But in defense of some private schools, at least the teachers actually have the CVs to teach their various disciplines (e.g., a math teacher will have a degree in mathematics, not “education”). At least, that was true at one time. It may not be anymore.

      • Upon entering public school the six year old is indoctrinated immediately with the Pledge of Allegiance.
        The purpose of the pledge according to its creator, Francis Bellamy, “was to teach obedience to the state as a virtue”. When you’re dealing with innocent and uniformed children what else could be the purpose? What the hell do they know about the “United States of America and the republic for which it stands”? What do they know about the corrupt, dangerous and complex realities inherent in politics and government, the dissonance between what ought to be Liberty and Justice for all and what is increasingly “liberty” for some at the expense of injustice for the rest of us?

        All it takes is one important person in a child’s life to sow seeds of doubt, to encourage him to develop a thoughtful sense of skepticism, to show him why the state is his very dangerous enemy to be scorned and ridiculed.

        But as we humans are ever so complex this child will choose his own way and it may be contrary to your hopes.

  33. I saw the link a couple days ago from the LRC blog. I saw the comments mentioned, but I also saw some postive comments (probably from the people who came from LRC).

    I’m not sure if “conservatives” or “liberals” are more accepting of the police state. I just know if their “team” says it’s OK – then it must be OK.

    For example – If McCain had been elected instead of Obama – bet your bottom dollar that the left would be the ones bitching about the porno scanners. Now it’s the right making most of the noise about them. The same “anti-war” left has no problem with brown people (including babies) being blown to pieces in a drone attacks – as long as a democrat ordered it.

    Sickening. Exactly the same mentality of “sports fans” whose favorite player switches sides and suddenly – they hate them.

    • You are 100% correct. If Mcpalin tried the same BS as Obumer the left would be up in arms. Obumer is a more effective neo-con than Mcpalin could ever have hoped to be because the left will not complain about anything he does.

  34. Be polite and just say no. Cussing them out can lead to bad things happening.

    In Michigan the Department of natural resources (DNR) are even worse than cops. All they need is probable cause to search your house. Me and a friend were Crappie fishing and they asked for our ID and licenses. His computer was down and he didn’t notice my drivers license was years out of date or that my buddy had a warrant out for unpaid fines. We packed up and left but a few minuets later he was right on us. Pulled us over at gunpoint and cuffed my buddy then asked if he could search my car. I said no. I had a half a pint of Jim Beam tucked under the seat. He drove off with his “prisoner” and away I went. My buddy actually beat me back to the party we were headed to. The DNR “officer” must have flown the 50 miles back.

    Just remember if they have to ask they are admitting they don’t have probable cause. If they had probable cause they wouldn’t need to ask. As Nancy Reagan would say, Just Say No!

  35. Eric,

    It’s unfortunate that history repeats itself, and yet here we are. The masses will obey and follow no matter how many freedoms they lose. Blame nationalism, blame movies/tv, and blame peoples arrogance – the same arrogance German citizens during Hitler’s rein.


    Simply earning respect is no longer enough. America has arrived at a point in her history when respect for the Individual will have to be demanded and enforced.

    Legislative and judicial respect for the individual’s unalienable rights is at an all time low in America. It is good that government excesses are propagated more thoroughly than ever but bear in mind the fact that nothing moves until it is on the record*. Knowing this, what can WE the People do to correct this insufferable development?


    *There are discouraging obstacles to getting things “on the record” but if Human Rights are to be respected it must be done.

  37. My pops told me about this yesterday so I looked it up and sent you the links, it ruined my morning how no one demanded a warrant before their car was searched and now today I woke up to Rand Paul endorsing Mittens and am totally disgusted again.

    This could be a hell of a diet plan, everytime I get hungry I look for stories like this and I will instantly lose my apetite, at this rate I will be back to my high school weight ina few weeks.

      • I feel sorry for Ron. I too know what it’s like for offspring to betray me, especially given that I’ve raised them to know better.

        OTOH, Baby Boy Paul is going to be in for a very rude awakening, and is going to be made to look the fool that he is, when Willard gets his political ass kicked to pieces on the first Tuesday in November. We can only hope that the citizens of Kentucky toss his sorry ass out of office in preference for someone who doesn’t even pretend to be principled.

        • Yep. Rand Paul has started playing the game that Ron always rejected. The game will either destroy him or consume him.

        • Rand Paul has turned out to be James Taggart instead of Dagny Taggart.

          This is not good.

          But let’s not forget, the Senate already has 99 unprincipled statist power seekers. What’s one more? Really?

          After all, we are not monarchists like the Kennedys and the Bushes. What does it matter to us if a “princeling” turns out to be a bum?

          The real war is being waged on the battlefield of ideology and psychology. How does the next generation of young people think and feel?

          Are they future Clovers and Sheeple? Or are they future Paulistas, or better yet, future Rothbardians?

          • Ron Paul never coloured within the libertarian lines, yet I regard him as the greatest Libertarian Titan of all time.

            I choose to focus on my own Olympian betrayal of the Doctor of Liberty.

            Did I propose a new Paulistic Oath, far more ubiquitous than our previous elitist Hippocratic Oath, no I did not.

            Have I ministered as a Medicine Man to the throngs of broken liberty-starved tribes, walking and driving the trails of tears under surveilled weaponized gauntlets. No, I have not.

            No one has prevented me from offering a true system of required daily vitamins and needs for a healthy happy life. A dose of Vitamin L for liberty. A measure of Vitamin P for pursuit. Yet no new wealth has come forth from my keyboard in this regard.

            Why haven’t I compiled a new anatomy of freedom? One that details our bodies, lives, and neighborhoods; free of the false nationstate nomenclature and dishonorourable false case histories?

            It’s shameful I expected to receive freedom as a second hander from the Pauls. My anger at Rand’s individual decision reminds me how much individual initiative I am still lacking; initiative I’ll need if I ever hope to achieve personal liberty in my time.

          • I agree.

            Ron Paul has done more than his share, and for longer than most others.

            The son is not the father. No need to have any expectations of him.

            Leaders help us focus our energies, but in the end they are merely symbols of what we value — freedom.

          • In the old west, when a family wanted to move, nails being a very rare and cherished commodity the “old house” was set ablaze and a magnet was used to retrieve the nails.

            This is a perfect analogy! We all need to get our magnets ready, as this level of insanity has to burn down soon!

        • Incidentally, has anyone noticed how much Rand Paul’s endorsement of “Mitt” Romney sounded like the mealy-mouthed equivocations of one of the minor villains in Atlas Shrugged?

          And for that matter, how the name “Mitt” Romney sounds like the names of the minor villains in Atlas Shrugged?

          To wit: Kip Chalmers. Tinky Holloway. Mort Liddy. Cuffy Meigs. Chick Morrison.

          Especially ironic given Rand Paul’s first name. You can’t make stuff like this up.

          • I’m having to stay far, far away from any TV. One more commercial about how Mitt “created jobs” and I will have to smash something….

          • Don’t blame you one bit!

            I haven’t watched local TV here in Taipei for years.

            The local political news could be lethal. I already have hypertension.

            • Bevin,

              Since you’re an ex-pat, I’d be very interested to hear your take on life in Taipei – specifically, do you feel you have more real liberty there than we have here? Some examples would be illuminating. I know others are interested, too. The Titanic is going down and we’re all looking at ways to keep from drowning….

          • Dear Eric,

            In some respects, yes. More freedom. For example, income taxes here are roughly a third of what they are in the USSA.

            But give it time. The government here is a “democracy,” so it will catch up soon enough.

            Also, the cops here are more like the cops that Jeff Berwick talks about, relatively laid back. At least compared to the paramilitary goons who “protect and serve” the “freest people in the history of the world” in the USSA.

            In other respects, no. Less freedom. For example, no Second Amendment. But more importantly, no “gun culture” that was the source of the Second Amendment. No public awareness that the right to defend oneself with whatever means necessary is a natural right.

            Most disturbing of all though, is the blindly naive worship of “American style democracy” among the local intelligentsia.

            They pride themselves on the fact that Taiwan is “more democratic, more advanced, more progressive” than the Chinese mainland.

            They remind of “fashion victims” who are behind the curve and who proudly sport last year’s fashions.

            They don’t know how to react when I quote James Madison: “Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death.”

            Newspaper editorials here champion free markets. But in the very next paragraph they demand tax increases to reduce the gap between rich and poor.

            So it’s a mixed bag. Too bad the entire planet is already explored and settled. What I wouldn’t give to be able to escape to a frontier wilderness.

            • “Too bad the entire planet is already explored and settled. What I wouldn’t give to be able to escape to a frontier wilderness.”

              My sentiments exactly.

              My fantasy is that Tesla did indeed parse a new physics – and that the means to get off this rock already exists. That the technology is held close by a hidden few. That these few are not like the rest of them. And that they may induct some of us into their circle….

          • Good one, LOL. My favorite is Claude Slagenhop, president of Friends of Global Progress and sponsor of the Equalization of Opportunity Bill.

            Alissa Rosenbaum(Ayn)took 14 years to write that. Her literary mentor, Victor Hugo, took 17 years to write Les Miserables, which chronicled the end of the period of French Salons and Enlightenment, and the rise of the sans coulettes, (without short pants?) and the French Revolution.

            Victor also wrote the excellent Quatre-vingt-treize (93) which brings to life the Reign of Terror in France. If we’re not in a Reign of Terror, then no one ever was.

            Alissa lived through the death of free Russia, the Russian Revolution, and the Russian Reign of Terror.

            I find a lot to glean from her writings and experience, and not the misunderstood passages you hear regurgitated by the slowest common denominators.

          • Dear Tor,

            Yeah. Claud Slagenhop. Missed that one!

            Note: I’m a recovering “student of Objectivism” so I don’t want to misrepresent myself.

            I still agree with 90% of Ayn Rand’s ideas. But the cultism and purges got to be too much for me.

            Also her parochial notions about aesthetics simply don’t hold water.

            To me, Atlas Shrugged was a wonderful thought experiment, but a terrible novel.

            Hey, nobody’s perfect. Not even Ayn Rand.

            • Indeed.

              Rand was a brilliant but flawed (like us all) person. Ironically, the advocate of individualism defined individualism as conforming in lockstep with the ideas and value judgments of one individual – Ayn Rand herself!

              She was thus more authoritarian than her villains, who at least didn’t demand that people admire the same music or literature or many other things besides.

              As I see it, her error was not erecting her philosophical system on the principle of non-aggression. Period. That what one does – regardless of what one does – is of no public concern provided no one is aggressed against. People ought to be free to spend their lives wearing Captain Kirk outfits if they like – so long as they’re not trying to force anyone else to suit up as Sulu!

          • Dear Eric,

            Re: Ayn Rand. I could not agree more.

            There’s a Chinese term for what Rand underwent. It’s called “走火入魔,” pronounced “zhou huo ru mo.” It means “walking into the fire and being possessed by the devil.” It means “being seduced by the Dark Side” like Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader in Star Wars.

            It has a more esoteric meaning in spiritualism and metaphysics. But the pop culture meaning is usually the one referred to.

            She didn’t know where to draw the line in her quest for a “totally consistent philosophical system.”

            She failed to appreciate that as long as others did not violate her natural rights, then she had no moral right to condemn them as harshly as she did. She failed to recognize the limits of her own knowledge.

            She had reason to be contemptuous of the intellectual establishment.

            But she also had reason to be humble. She never did offer a convincing rebuttal of market anarchism. She simply begged the question with her unfinished anecdote about clashes between private defense agencies.

            For years I defended her minarchist position. But the illogical premise that “government is a necessary evil” stuck in my craw. if it’s evil, how can it be necessary?

            So I took Rand’s advice. I checked my premises. Sure enough, I eventually decided that the only philosophically consistent position, the only rigorously “Randian” position was market anarchism!

          • in regards to Ayn Rand, I have come to much the same conclusion, I think the Fountainhead is a better novel/story but Atlas Shrugged just carries more weight to me, I regularly cite the “I swear by my …” quote often.
            She was extremely flawed and in many ways a hypocrite but we all are, which is why no one is fit to rule over another.
            After the Paul debacle from last week and getting over the emotion of feeling betrayed I have realized that it isn’t the man or woman that is important. What is criticl is the ideas and philosophy that they inspired inside of me and how I decide to live my life. That was partially a result of reading and witnessing their work and I am thankful for it.

          • Dear Willy P,

            My feelings as well.

            The characters in The Fountainhead were more human. Atlas Shrugged is a political treatise masquerading as a political novel.

            John Galt is what is referred to as a “Mary Sue.” A character too perfect and flawless to be an actual human being.

            Henry Rearden was actually a much better character. Flawed but decent.

            I hate to say it, but Howard Fast, a Communist, wrote better political novels — qua novels — than Rand!

          • Dear Mike in Spotsy,

            No doubt about it.

            Beyond a certain point, Ayn Rand’s aesthetic theories were nothing more than the utterly arbitrary worshiping of her own whims, to use her own formulation.

            Yes, there is such a thing as a “sense of life.”

            Sylvia Plath had a very different “sense of life” than Jane Austen. No argument.

            But beyond that rough understanding, any attempt to pigeonhole complex human beings is worse than futile, it is inquisitorial.

            • “…and the silence from his father on the issue has been deafening.”

              That bothers me, also.

              Rand is now a public figure, so it’s not just a private family matter. Rand has used his father’s status to launch a political career – one based on the assumption that the son shares the father’s views. That’s clearly not the case. Ron ought to call him on it, in public.

              He’d do it if it weren’t his son.

          • agreed that if he is in disagreement he should be open about it but I don’t think it will happen. I also don’t think Ron will come out in favor or Romney either though. It is a no win situation.

            The saddest part for me is that Rand did what the leeches at Faux Noose, ICBS News and Crap News Network haven’t been able to do Ron Paul for quite a few years, he truly discredited his father.

          • Never seen Ron Paul call someone on their endorsements. Plus most of us see Ron Paul as he turned out after 30+ years of wisdom in the disgusting game. I’ll wager that Ron Paul supported some people we now find disgusting in his past.

            I don’t see Ron Paul exerting much control over his son. I say it goes like much else he does. He expresses what he’s learned/thinks and then people take it or leave it.

            I see Rand Paul’s point, what he’s trying to do. He’s trying to appeal to cloverites of the republican party. The ones who get offended by non-conformity. It’s the way to ‘win’. But it’s dirty even if it is for what we want.

        • I am not so much a fan of Ron Paul as I once was. In fact, it may be that the nut did NOT fall far from the tree. First, IMO, Ron Paul defected during the presidential race for reasons unknown to any of us. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps his family or his life was threatened. Then later I saw youtube clips of him saying there was nothing wrong with a global currency and a few other things like that. He lost my respect. Perhaps he never was what he held himself out to be during the election race. Maybe that is why Rand Paul SEEMS so different.

          • You might be on to something there, Laura… I, too, was disappointed by RP’s performance during the last presidential election but gave him the benefit of the doubt in view of his lifetime of work and because he is, after all, an elderly man at this point.

            But Rand Paul strikes me as a power-lusting shill who will say and do whatever he thinks he needs to in order to achieve office.

            In other words, a typical Republican (or Democrat).

    • Guess we know where Rand’s loyalties really lie, not with liberty or his father…..unless Ron feels the same way. Somethin to ponder.

      • If Ron feels the same way he can go to hell as well. However, I have never seen any inclination on his part to make me believe this is the case.

        The sad part is that if the Ron Paul movement is to continue it will have to be without his son.

        • I personally don’t think Ron will endorse Romney but I also don’t think he’ll come out against his son either.

          They aren’t the same person, another example of this would be Warren Buffet and his father, Howard Buffett, from a quick read he was a very ethical senator as opposed to his piece of shit son.

          Because I don’t see Ron coming out against his son, Rand might have done what all the neo-cons couldn’t do, discredit Ron Paul. Rand might be the only person Ron wouldn’t go against in public. Reminds me of the movie “Wanted” where an organization corrupts and uses an enemy’s son to kill his own father.
          Now the black mark on Ron Paul’s legacy will be Rand Paul.

          • I am afraid you are will be proven correct. It certainly will give tons of ammunition to the left and right.

          • Rand Paul has to learn things for himself. One thing that libertarians should not fall into is this genetic line thing. People are individuals.

            Also who knows what has been done behind the scenes. The status-quo power structure threatened to kill Ross Perot and/or his family.

            Furthermore men are flawed. The ideas are not.

          • I am most scared of this actually. Rand is the perfect successor, I think the presidency could be handed over because people will equate him with his dad. He would make excellent king.

          • I really don’t see the same ideas of liberty in Rand that I see in Ron.

            The ideas need to be in the people, not in some ‘leader’. It’s a war of ideas and the status quo cheats with manipulations and lies starting on people when they are small children.

      • Yeah, okay. So when the cops pulled you out of the car, did you use some type of lubricant before you bent over for them or did you just blow ’em. Good luck with the rest of your sorry subservient life, Gustyjackass.


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