The Cost of all This Convenience

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Am I the only one who doesn’t see think it was an ordeal to insert a key into an ignition switch to start a car’s engine? Or to turn a knob to increase – or decrease – the fan speed of the AC/heater?

Are we better off – especially financially – on account of the convenience of electric-computer controls for such things?

 

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35 COMMENTS

  1. My current and last car has a key.

    Three knob heater/AC(first time in the UK I’ve gad AC, it’s good to dry the air blowing on the windscreen, heat isn’t a problem in Scotland!)

    3 cylinder na engine

    5 speed manual gearbox, I’ve never owned an automatic in the UK, that’s for “posh” motors

    electric front windows, manual adjust mirrors ABS and hill start assist

    That’s it

    2019 Dacia Sandero 2nd gen, basically it’s a 2000s Renault Clio

    • Manual transmission, no safety crap, no tracker devices in the engines, no electronic junk. And how about bringing back the 8-cylinder engines, and to hell with the crappy gas mileage? People do not buy those for the gas mileage. Yeah, I dare say, LMTY, you would have a successful car company, sans the Feds screwing up a good thing.

      • In no uncertain terms, a car company under my guidance would break the way cars are currently made.
        1: The engine (a solenoid valve modular Boxster engine) would be the heart of the company. Imagine a modular block that you could scale out endlessly simply by bolting modules together. 1 module and you have a 2 cyl. 2 modules and you have a 4 cyl. The same engine could power the entire vehicle lineup, and do so without the trade-offs one would typically expect.

        2: The electrical system, the #1 thing holding back IC engines (ironically), would be 48v, powered by 4x off the shelf LiFePO4 batteries. It’s interesting to note that, despite our (righteous) resistance to EV’s, it is by matter of fact the 12v electrical system that has held us back for decades in IC technology.

        3: Materials – we would EMBRACE carbon fiber WHOLELY. One of the prime goals would be to make carbon fiber construction CHEAP. As it should be.

        4: Efficiency – would be available at the spin of a rheostat. Or power if you turn it the other way. Imagine being able to “dial in” 80 mpg, or 500 hp. From the same engine. With no trade-offs or sacrifices.

        5: COST – and here is where we rule the automotive industry and turn it on its ear. Because the engine that powers the lineup would be CHEAP TO PRODUCE. No rocker arms, no pushrods, no lifters, no cam shafts, no cam bearings, no timing chains, timing chain tensioners, the list goes on and on. A crank, connecting rods, wrist pins, and solenoid valves. And that’s the engine. Using this tech, we could produce engines for less than HALF what today’s automakers achieve. Instead of the engine being 40% of the car’s cost, it would be more like 15-20%. Miniscule by comparison.

        I sure wish I could win the lottery, lol, I could have an entire auto industry following us in less than a decade.

  2. From a manufacturing engineering standpoint, the “all electronics” are a huge timesaver in final assembly. Modules in the dash assembly, load that in the car hook up a wire harness, done. Old mechanicals – load the dash then attach the push pull cable for the HVAC then adjust the cable for proper blend door operation. Hook up vacuum lines to run the actuators for recirc, heat/vent/defrost airflow.

    Marketing loves it, look at all these buttons and wow now a touchscreen right in the dash!

    • Winner! Having worked in assembly plants the better part of my adult life – this is it.

      The fact that Mericans’ find it too burdensome to roll down a window or adjust a mirror just makes it that much easier to fleece them with power everything, electronics, and LCD displays.

      The fact that in this country a millionaire driving a $5000 97’ Camry is looked down on as “poor” while an broke idiot in a financed $80k truck is seen as “doing well” tells you all you need to know.

      Appearance is far more important to Mericans’ than substance.

      • Oh yes! Next door neighbor in the mid ‘80s relayed a conversation from another neighbor across the culdesac – “Sure feel sorry for those folks in the green house (The Commander and I) too bad they’re not doing better, just look at those old cars they drive”. These were the typical keep up with the Joneses that were buying new cars I swear every six months. Meanwhile, driving that long paid for ‘70 Firebird and ‘71 Nova allowed for fun summer vacations, fund some savings and The Commander to be a stay at home mom for many years with my modest income.

  3. Sorry for a second post….
    Another problem with the proximity key is…..remote duplication and theft of the entire car.

    These keys are always transmitting their signals into the atmosphere and with the proper software and equipment, can be duplicated and then the car can be stolen at the thief’s convenience.
    Toyota remotes can be turned off with a sequence of button pressings (thankfully my manual transmission Tacoma still has a keyed ignition.)
    However, not all manufacturers keys can be “disabled” so you should be storing the key in a Faraday pouch when not in use.

  4. The wizards on Madison Ave are amazing – particularly the “AWD/4WD IS SAFER!”
    Particularly when modern tire rubber compounds are even more amazing with their ability to outperform many of these mechanical 4WD/AWD systems.
    I recall (I think – C&D) an article from nearly 30 years ago where they pitted a FWD VW on snow tires against a AWD Audi on all seasons – and the VW beat it.
    More things to break, more 4WD systems that won’t be maintained and worse fuel economy all in the name of “saaaaaaafffffty” when all you need is a spare set of steel wheels and decent set of snow tires.

    • You make some valid points

      “when all you need is a spare set of steel wheels and decent set of snow tires.”

      I’m very familiar with Blizzaks, studs, chains, etc.

      Uhm . . . No. 2WD isn’t going to get you up the mountain road to my house right now.

    • Yeah, modern snow and ice tires are great. Put them on a 4 or AWD and they’re even better. In northern Minnesota, toilet paper is a luxury but 4wd is a necessity.

      • Sure, 30 years ago people who NEEDED 4WD/AWD bought them because they lived where it was an ABSOLUTE necessity to get around.
        Hence why AWD meant a Subaru, or oddball Civic/Tercel – or a REAL 4WD Jeep, pickup, etc.

        Growing up in WNY in the 80’s – where it snows plenty – 4WD trucks were rare, and mostly owned by plow contractors or actual off-roaders.
        Even neighborhood men who were avid hunters had RWD full size vans and p/u’s to carry deer carcasses and haul boats.
        2WD trucks got along just fine with snow tires and sandbags in the bed from Dec-Mar.
        Today, buying a 2WD requires a factory order.
        Even a Toyota salesman said that getting a FWD RAV4 in 2024 north of MD is a specialty.

        My point was that generally speaking, the merits of AWD/4WD for the vast majority of buyers is beyond overexaggerated.

  5. What’s with this preoccupation with “convenience”? Is it not convenient to have a motor vehicle that can take you where you want to go, when you want to go? Do we really need it to be ever more convenient, especially when it’s ever more expensive? God forbid you have to carry a key, and insert it into the ignition switch to start the car.

  6. The main advantage of a physical ignition switch is that you can turn the engine off when the car is moving in the unlikely event the computer malfunctions and sends the engine to a wide open throttle. I read of the case where a “Real Hero” risked his life to get ahead of a car so that it would crash into his cruiser and he would use his brakes to stop just before the road ended. Both cars were scrap but no one died or was injured so it shows some Heroes will do their jobs and then some.

    Guaranteed if I ever wind up with a car with only a start button I’ll be rigging a kill switch for that unlikely event.

    As for touch screens, my vintage Garmin makes you agree to not use the touch screen when the vehicle is moving. I have course tried to, it’s not safe so now I don’t. I can’t see running a multi level touch screen when the vehicle is moving, but maybe I’m not that smart.

  7. To answer the question, I agree that we are not better off.

    As I said in a comment to your (Eric’s) very recent “Heat” article, the bad things they are doing ARE intentional.

    Meanwhile, I think my 2004 Honda Element was just about the peak of balancing old-reliable with new-reliable tech. I have to, and want to, turn an ignition key. I don’t have, and don’t need, remote start. It has power windows, though I don’t require that convenience. No turbo, nor would I want turbo. No computer screen. No insulting and irritating “driver-assist” crap. The list goes on.

    So, I nominate the year 2004 as the peak year of auto quality. Anyone agree, disagree, and why?

    • Agree, that era was great. 2003 Ford Escape, probably the most reliable and solid car we’ve owned. Rare that I buy anything new, this one was worth it. Mechanical HVAC via three knobs. I must have the last SUV with NO antilock brakes. Solid V6 engine with metal chain driven cams. Drives like a go cart and with real brakes stops quick with excellent pedal feel. No leaks, one spark plug change one set of front brakes and replaced a noisy fuel pump, that’s it. Fluids and filters and two battery swaps. Turns 22 in March.

    • Too late. By early 2000’s vehicles were already moving to primitive CAN bus architecture.

      Late 90s. I’d probably argue for 96’ or 97’ right after OBDII diagnostics that make DIY work on fuel injection easier.

      Having had a 91’ Miata that was pre-OBD wasn’t terrible – just had to use the blinking Morse code to decipher the trouble code which wasn’t bad with a factory manual.

    • 96 was the peak or a little past it. 96 was when air bags showed up, which at the time I was impressed by. Good computerized engine controls for both multipoint EFI and for spark. Excellent materials and machining tolerances. Still, aside from the air bags, the peak did stretch out to 2010 or so, but after that the electronics got completely out of control.

    • Thank you for the several direct replies. “Burn It Down” and “Ernie” have sparked my memory and persuaded me to go pre-2000, to 1996.

      My second and last new car purchase was a 1996 Honda Del Sol. It had a couple of options I didn’t NEED, such as power windows. But it’s quality seemed flawless. I didn’t keep it long enough for a true longevity test, though, which would include rust-resistance.

      I sold it when I decided to flee this country for the first time, when I knew too much was wrong, but I didn’t yet have a clue as to the cause. I came back. Fled again. Figured it out. Came back again, to try to educate enough men, MEN, to fix it. Yeah, let us laugh together over that one. There aren’t enough MEN to even force the end of local masking policies let alone overthrow our Rulers.

  8. Recently had a rental car with all touchscreen controls along with lots of buttons for ASS, traction control etc. Had to pull into a parking spot and spend about ten minutes figuring out wtf did what and how. No way you can adjust this stuff without taking your eyes off the road and then maybe rear-ending somebody or ending up in a ditch. So where is the saaaaaaafety cult in all of this? More proof the PTB hate us and the freedom of movement our cars give us.

  9. One control for temperature, one for fan speed, and one for where the air is directed (windshield, face level, floor level) is simple and intuitive. It served three generations of auto drivers. It wasn’t broke and didn’t need fixing.

    Then chips came along. Simple functions that one can operate by feel without even taking eyes off the road were replaced by an inscrutable black box. How does its algorithm decide the mix of air temperature and fan speed? High temp + low fan speed, vs warm temp + high fan speed, for instance, when either will do?

    Answer: it’s proprietary. They’re not going to tell you. You may develop a ‘mental map’ eventually, if you pay attention. But if you happen not to like the black box programming, your option is to dispose of the vehicle, buy another mystery black box, and try, try again.

    Taking manual control away from drivers is a form of institutionalized oppression. Rise up and smite our tormentors, say I.

    Yeah, gold coast slave ship bound for cotton fields
    Sold in a market down in New Orleans
    Scarred old slaver know he’s doin’ alright
    Hear him chip his victims just around midnight

    — Rolling Stones, Brown Sugar

  10. Most annoying and “SAFETY VIOLATION” is taking your eyes off the road to adjust anything. My country road has NO shoulder, just a nice 4’ deep ditch. The Grand Cherokee at least still has buttons for heat up/down but little tactile feel as they’re flush with the surround bezel. Trying to keep one eye on the road and another locating the controls what a ridiculous dance. The Jeep has voice control which I gave up on as my stated terms and what it will recognize don’t agree. Switch out of Auto mode and then it’s on to the touch screen to select where the air comes out – floor, vents, or defrost. It doesn’t remember your selection either the next time out.

    First experience with the future was when we bought the ‘91 Silverado. Electronic HVAC control that you have to look at to set anything. My first thought back then “this is really annoying and certainly not smart for driving safely”.

    Best was the ‘70s GM like Eric’s ‘Bird and my ‘79 Pontiac. A lever for mode, another for temp, and up down small lever for the fan. Slide the mode lever all the way right for defrost which also kicked in the AC for a quick defog vital in the damp Puget Sound climate. A couple days experience and you never had to look at the controls, all by “clicks” of the mode lever and a thumbs width from left on the temp lever for a comfortable ride to work.

    • Nope. Ive owned all generation from 75 on cept of course toy eveeee.

      Simple analog electronic switchology of 2000 era cars is so much superior to mechanical linkages. All this was good up to the day some idiots decided to play microprocessor abuse and put them everywhere.

      One culprit was Lee Iaccoca in early 80s. Daytona Turbo Z anyone?

      His personal Cessna Citation had THE WORST POS AVIONICS I ever had to work on. Bendix junk attempt at faking real Collins Proline just like his trash chip filled fail cars.

      Thats one culprit who pushed uprocessor abuse on stupid slaves who lacked what it took to know better.

      Early 80’s is also when Apple Computer trained duped drones that EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING MUST be run thru and validated by a “cumputer”.

      Jamie. . . . and here we are.

      Denial is futile

  11. I am not opposed to little electro-mechanical switches/valves, etc… controlling HVAC, etc… As long as you can get to them easily enough to replace. Since most of them are inside the vehicle, they tend to last a very long time. But for sure, they have gone way too far now.
    An example is your heater core project, they are almost impossible to get in and out now.

    Where I draw the line is electro-mechanical devices in the engine. Actually in the engine, they will never last long. Even in the engine bay or outside is not good.

    There is a happy medium somewhere. We are way over the line, I’ll say the last 10 years or so.

  12. We recently rented a car for a family trip and the guy that was renting me the car kind of snickered when I didn’t know how to start the damn thing. You have to put your left hand on the mirror and the right hand on the wheel at exactly 2:00 while depressing the brake and reciting the incantation…

    All of my cars have keys. And being a competent male of the species, they all run flawlessly.

    • Turn off a keyed ignition, remove the key, and it’s in your hand. Muscle memory — no thinking required. Next step, attach the key chain to your caribiner or put it in your pocket.

      Versus, hit the ‘off’ button, open the door, and you may easily forget the fob lying in the console. There’s no intuitive connection between the ‘off’ button and the fob, so mistakes will be made. This is bad, stupid ergonomic design — a costly downgrade in functionality.

  13. A lot of this stuff is just “me too” marketing. Oh, GM has introduced climate control to all of their vehicles? Well, Ford better do it too, they don’t want to appear low tech. It might sway a few people on the fence at the dealer too, especially if they’re trading in a 15 year old vehicle.

    The thing I don’t get is why there are multiple “zones” in a small space like a car? Surely there can’t be that much of a difference between the driver and passenger setting, yet I can easily set one side to 79º and the other to LOº and the system will happily carry out my request. Maybe I can make a little thunderstorm over the center console.

    Dad’s ’76 Charger (first car we had with AC) had the old style sliders and buttons. The important thing is where they were located: Right next to the driver’s door. Dad (the driver) was in charge of our comfort. And like most men in the late ’70s he didn’t give one thought to his shivering wife and children. He paid for the AC and dammit, he’s going to use it!

    • My personal approach in winter is to run the heat full blast and occasionally roll down my window for cool down and fresh air. In summer, the reverse, put AC on max and let in some warm summer air occasionally. The wife and kids of course, hate it.

      • That’s funny. Dad did something similar when he found out if he pulled out the AC button it shut off the compressor. So run the air to just before frost formed on the dashboard, then shut off the compressor. It was pretty neat seeing the condensation fog come through the vents, but there were more than a few arguments between mom and dad over the practice.

        I remember helping a friend move. We were in the truck, I was driving. He reached over to add a little heat to the AC. I told him that my father would probably take me out of the will if I tried something like that.

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