Another Retreat in The EV Wars

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Stellantis – parent company of Ram trucks as well as the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands – has just sounded the retreat.

Again.

A leaked internal memo orders a hard-stop on further spending on the “electrified” device that looks like a Ram 1500 pickup. The device – styled the Ram 1500 REV (an odd acronym to use since electric motors do not rev; they spin) “long range” – that was supposed to be in production by now is apparently not going to be produced at all. Of a piece with the hard-stop cancellation of the device Chrysler dealers were supposed to have been getting by now, which Stellantis decided to pull the plug on just a couple of weeks ago.

Probably because Stellantis’ new management is trying to salvage something from the wreckage left by former CEO Carlos Tavares, who gambled the future of all of these brand on the preposterous idea that they could successfully transition from selling vehicles to devices.

It’s a preposterous idea for several reasons but the main one – as regards the Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram brands especially – is that the people who bought vehicles made by these brands are interested in buying devices. It’s as silly an idea as Playboy – back in the day – trying to sell magazines that featured scantily clad men to heterosexual men.

Knowing your market being a necessary prerequisite to success in the market. More finely, knowing not to alienate your market. Stellantis’ new management appears to understand that’s exactly what the last couple of years of Tavares did. Chrysler needs a new device like a penguin needs a cactus.

It’s even worse for Dodge – and Ram.

It is almost certainly why Stellantis has delayed shipments of the new device made to look like a Charger that was supposed to have been shipped to Dodge dealers months ago. Thousands have been made but they haven’t been shipped – because the spectacle of them just sitting (unsold) on Dodge lots is something Dodge probably cannot survive. The word is that Dodge – i.e., Stellantis management – is working overtime to get an engined version of the Charger into production and to dealers in the hope of saving the brand from from bankruptcy.

And it is why the plug has been pulled on the device made to look like a Ram truck. Herewith the contents of memo:

As Stellantis continues to focus on the launch of the Ram 1500 Ramcharger and Ram 1500 REV (BEV L), the company has made the decision to CANCEL the Light Duty Ram 1500 DT BEV XL (long range variant). Consequently, we ask you to immediately cease all activities related to this project and suspend all incremental spending. Please note that the cancellation only applies to UNIQUE BEV XL parts. Work on any parts shared with the BEV L should NOT be cancelled/stopped.”

These are not my boldings – or use of ALL CAPS. They are the memo’s – which was written in this manner as a kind of banshee wail. In Scottish lore, a banshee’s wail is a harbinger of imminent death and that’s exactly it, as regards the “long range” device that looks like a Ram 1500 – which s now officially dead.

The device would probably have weighed around 10,000 pounds in order to be able to tout a best-case/fully charged “long range” of about 500 miles – assuming it’s not too cold out and you’re not hauling (or pulling) anything heavy in addition to the device, itself. Most of that extra weight being the device’s 168 kWh battery pack and 800 volt architecture.

You can imagine what all of that would have cost.

More to the point, what it would have cost Ram (and so, Stellantis) when the device didn’t sell on account of what it cost as well as the fact that probably not very many Ram buyers would have wanted to buy one irrespective of its cost.

So, time to cut bait.

But not altogether.

While the device called the Ram REV “long range” is kiboshed, Ram is still moving forward with a device with much less range and another kind of device. One that showcases everything that’s preposterous about devices by showing what’s necessary to make a device plausibly practical as a vehicle. That thing being – wait for it! – an engine.

More finely, an engine that burns gas – but not to propel the vehicle. Instead, the engine is used to power up the batteries that feed electricity to the electric motors that propel the vehicle. This rolling mockery of devices is styled the Ramcharger . . .  .

Get it?

It lugs around a V6 engine in addition to a pair of electric motors and a massive battery pack, which does give the thing a range of 700 miles and eliminates the need to stop – and wait – for a charge. Instead, the onboard gas engine charges the thing, so you only need to stop for long enough to refill the tank.

Well, why not just cut out the middle man and have the engine power the wheels and nix the electric motors and battery pack?

That might occur to Stellantis – and maybe in time, too.

. . .

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110 COMMENTS

  1. “Stellantis – parent company of Ram trucks as well as the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands”

    Ram trucks, Dodge and Jeep brands are the parent company of Stellantis. Fixed it for ya. Those brands are 90% of Stellantis profits.

  2. Stellantis proclaims an advance — but to where?

    ‘Stellantis on Wednesday announced its plans to relaunch production at the Belvidere Assembly Plant [in Illinois] starting in 2027.

    What kind of vehicle will be built in Belvidere?

    Stellantis says a mid-sized pickup truck is slated for production in Belvidere starting in 2027, but won’t say what make or model is planned.

    What kind of powertrain will the truck have?

    Whether the vehicle will be powered by an internal combustion engine, hybrid engine or electric motor was not announced.

    https://tinyurl.com/4kyjs4wx

    Do you believe in Santa Claus? It only takes one flack to draft a fact-free press release.

    What is a ‘mid-size pickup’ these days? About 5,000 lbs and 22 ft long?

    Stellantis may well go bankrupt before the Belvidere plant reopens.

    So what / who cares. 🙂

    • If Dodge has ANY brains whatsoever, they’ll make bring back the Dakota, and they’ll have 2 “special versions”…an R/T version with a hemi, and an off-road version similarly powered.

      And not a hybrid version in sight.

      If they priced it reasonably and made it reliable? The people would rejoice.

      • I agree, Letme –

        The Dakota was just the right size for buyers who wanted a truck with more towing/hauling (and people carrying) capability than a compact-sized pick-up but who are not interested in a huge full-size truck that’s oversized for their needs and also as or more expensive than a Mercedes or BMW,

        • Was lucky enough to find a well taken care of 1994 Dakota V6 for my daughter to drive when she turned 16. She’s 22 and still driving it. Very reliable.

    • Wait until the next plandemic, red flag laws, and anti-semitism laws. And lockdowns. And closed businesses.

      How many small businesses destroyed for the idolaters of Trump?

      It’s like they salivate at their own destruction and the destruction of their neighbors.
      Or like they’re pushing a distinct agenda…

        • There are 2 kinds of people, however because everything you have been taught is INVERTED (As above, So below…), ie the Star of Remphan, you know the 2 types of people as this:
          Optimists and Pessimists. To your inverted thinking (by design), thinking “positive” is, of course, POSITIVE. Because…they NAMED it that, duh. And negative thinkers…well, they made the word NEGATIVE, so I don’t even have to do any thinking for myself at all.

          See, that’s inverted thinking. It makes as little sense to hear as it does in practice.

          Now, here’s REAL THINK:
          There are 2 kinds of people.
          Those who live in reality.
          Those who live in fantasy.

          YOU call those who live in REALITY “PESSIMISTS”.
          Whereas I call those who live as “positive thinkers” FANTASTY WORLD NPC’s.

          You have no idea how you got to be programmed to think of people as “pessimists” and “optimists”, but it’s retardo inverted thinking.
          There is the real world.
          And there is fantasy world.

          Fantasy world is “Trump is your hero and he’s here to save the day.”
          It even SOUNDS F****** RETARDED.
          REALITY WORLD IS WHAT I HAVE SAID IT IS.

          I don’t care if you choose to live in fantasy world.
          Just…don’t try to spread that disgusting idolatry-filled inverted double think on me. For one, it simply doesn’t work. I don’t feel AT ALL GUILTY for not living in a fantasy world. And for another, you end up causing me to inadvertently say something that will upset your bosses.

            • That’s once again pre-programmed opposite / inversion-think.

              THIS is real-think:

              If you VOTE, then you perpetuate the system by lending it legitimacy when it has none. No matter who wins or who loses, you have no right to bitch. The only way to end a corrupt system, is to discontinue participation. This is a logical axiom.

              The funny thing is, you don’t even KNOW you’re stuck in opposite-think.

              But when faced with real-think logic, there really is nothing to say, is there?

              • Hi Let,

                I disagree with the assertion that voting legitimizes the system. It is a legitimate defensive action against the system. Voting for a given candidate is not a carte blanche approval of whatever that candidate may do. You voted for Trump because (as an example) he is the one more likely to get the border under control and not force your kids to learn all about “trans” people. Of course he may and probably will do other things you do not approve; that does not mean you approved them because you voted for him anymore than (if you could) vote for a new warden of the prison you’re in who promised to allow more yard time means you approve of being in a prison.

                The not voting thing, meanwhile, is great in principle. But the fact is most people are going to vote and that is going to decide the election – which will decide what is done to you (or not) by those elected.

                I consider it political triage. You try to save what can be saved. It does not mean you give up working toward something better.

                • It’s just that “something better” will never arrive because of “voting”.

                  It never has, and it never will.

                  There is nothing more astounding to me than people running off to “vote” to change their fates…

                  While completely forgetting that it’s “voting” that put them in their current spot to begin with.

                  • I disagree, LetMe –

                    It is not voting that created the authoritarian state. It is the people who created it. Certainly, voting has been used as their tool. But it is the people – not the vote, per se, that is the root of the trouble.

                    • If by this, you mean it’s our fault for sitting around instead of putting the 2nd amendment into play long ago, then on this we can agree. The lead vote is the greatest engine of political change. But there is a real problem when your government is a bankrupt corporation. Bankruptcy law states that the holder of DEBT INTEREST is the controller of the corporation, and all the “office holders” (senators, presidents, etc.) are merely “token positions”, necessary for the day to day operation OF the corporation.

                      This is basic bankruptcy law. You can ask any bankruptcy lawyer this and they’ll tell you just how correct this is.

                      The FACT is the corporation known as the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA has been BANKRUPT since 1933, 20 years after the Federal Reserve nearly to the day. Who controls the debt interest? The Federal Reserve. Who controls the Federal Reserve?

                      That’s who controls “America”.

                      You can vote and vote and vote and vote and vote and vote and vote until you run out of breath and DIE.

                      This isn’t ever going to change without open rebellion. Period.

                    • I don’t disagree, LetMe –

                      But things must coalesce in order for it to be purposeful; to have any chance of success. What good would it have done the individual who defended himself against a redcoat in say 1770? He’d likely have been tried, convicted – and duly hung. But by 1775, things had changed. We await the right moment.

                • RE: “Voting for a given candidate is not a carte blanche approval of whatever that candidate may do.”

                  P.C.R. seems to disagree, “When a president is elected, it means that the voters have chosen his policies.”

                  • I can’t name a single policy that I would have made or voted for. Not one. When they start making policies like…
                    “Leave the people alone.”
                    “Stop stealing the people’s money.”
                    Come find me.

    • That’s the order I’ve been waiting for, good for him but I won’t be surprised if the CIA “accidentally” destroyed them like the Abu Graib tapes. Fingers crossed.

  3. Oh I wonder what info they’ve gotten. They must have some idea what’s going on before pulling the trigger on these kinds of decisions.

  4. Yet another huge fire north of LA! I can’t wait to see all those EV fire vehicles go handle that. They made such things and sent them to Ukraine.

    • 21 minutes ago
      Dangerous winds prompt Southern California Edison to shut off power to thousands of customers. Here’s where. — LA Times

      So if your EeeVee wasn’t charged up, now you’re just S.O.L. to evacuate.

      Maybe offer up that EeeVee as a sacrifice to propitiate the fire gods. Worth a try …

    • California truly is a failed state. Driving on the 1O today I was struck with how much trash was blowing across the freeway starting around Fontana. Don’t remember ever seeing so much garbage. Yesterday, the border crossing was down to two lanes, one truck, one car. Took about an hour and a half to go the last five miles into Blythe. Bumper to bumper I could have walked it faster. Yeah, a failed state, but the weather is to die for. Don’t know how you stand it.

      • Here’s the funny part about that.
        If you believed in less government and personal responsibility…
        You’d pick that trash up, wouldn’t you? Organize a clean-up crew…you know…not wait for the gov to come and do something.

        The failure of our “governments” isn’t our only problem.

      • Hi Norman,

        My sister and her family live in Oceanside, CA – just outside San Diego. Literally every day for the past several weeks, my brother in law has been sending me pictures of derelicts crashed out on the sidewalk and videos of screaming, gesticulating schizophrenics – which he documents on his walk each day from where they live to a coffee shop he goes to each morning. This is in a “good neighborhood,” by the way.

        • Hi Eric,

          I was asked for money by homeless twice yesterday. Walking into a store in Los Alamitos, and out front of a drug store. At least they weren’t overly aggressive about it. Just a ‘bad day at black rock’ away from the schizophrenia is how I would describe most of them. I hope your BIL and sister stay safe. Personally, I feel naked not being able to carry at will.

          The place our elderly relative lives used to be very nice, twenty years ago. Now she cant face the reality of what it has become. The wife and I have tried to get her to come live with us, but she cant bear to leave ‘her church.’ The same church that required masks and vaccines to attend during the scamdemic.

  5. engineered equipment’, an acceptable warranty rate is anything under 2-3%. Once we hit 4-5% on a particular model, we open an investigation to fix it.

    Looks like human beings are also ‘engineered equipment’.

    We allowed 2-3% “acceptable defects” to own and manage the herd until it becomes obviously 4-5% psychopath. Then the gloves come off. The defect is shown in not comletely disavowing any and all affiliation with Satans sinagouge.

    Weve now passed this tipping point.

  6. Hyundai engine failure…..

    A tear down of a 1.6L Gamma II 1.6L 4cyl from a 2019 Kia Rio S with just 83k miles! The Gamma engine is in a ton of different Hyundai and Kia models and is still produced today. There are many different variants of this engine, this one being the G4FG, a non turbo direct injected engine that makes about 130hp found in the Hyundai Accent and Kia Rio.

    This engine clearly suffered a catastrophic event, but why? Was it poor maintenance? Run low on oil? Manufacturing defect?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9GJmdAeKWs

  7. In other EV news, four electric school buses caught fire overnight a couple days ago in Wilbraham, MA. I saw a brief mention of it on the tv “news” but no details and no mention since. The video showed the buses plugged into their chargers while burning so not sure what set them off but the temperatures were in the single digits which might have been a factor. Luckily the buses weren’t making their rounds so no kids got incinerated; no parent in their right mind should ever let their kids get onto one of those rolling crematoriums.

  8. It is not easy to build, manufacture, automobiles and trucks.

    Studebaker is gone, Nash is gone, AMC is gone, Maxwell is gone, many car companies have folded.

    Pontiac, Mercury, Oldsmobile, gone.

    Tesla will be too, only a matter of time.

    Nikola would jump out of his final resting spot and bitch slap Elon for being so haughty and stupid.

    David Buick would force Mary to clean out her desk, time to go.

    Dot gov has everybody running around like chickens with their heads chopped off.

    And I stood arrow straight
    Unencumbered by the weight of all these hustlers and their schemes
    I stood proud, I stood tall
    High above it all
    I still believed in my dreams
    – Bob Seger, Like a Rock

    • “Nikola would jump out of his final resting spot and bitch slap Elon for being so haughty and stupid.”

      Listen up griftgod! We know yr here.

  9. Another Advance in the Kei Truck Wars

    ‘Kaleb Sparks, a 26-year-old paramedic from Florida, ditched his Chevrolet Silverado pickup within six months of buying a Honda kei truck.

    ‘Sparks said he rarely needed the extra power offered by the larger Chevy, for which he paid $70,000 and added another $10,000 in accessories and modifications. The Honda, which cost him $7,500, is also more fun to drive and gets a better reaction, he said.

    “People are always rolling down their windows to say: ‘What is that thing?’ It’s mostly a dude magnet. Every guy that sees it is like: ‘That’s sick’,” Sparks said.

    ‘In one recent video, Cody Detwiler, the man behind the popular YouTube channel Whistlindiesel, welded a fighter-jet engine to the bed of a kei truck and filmed himself driving it down the road. “I was driving, let’s just say, possibly over the speed limit. It handled immaculately for what it is,” said Detwiler.

    The video, which has over six million views, resonated because the kei truck reflects American desires for cheap, fun cars at a time when vehicles have only been growing larger and more expensive, Detwiler said.

    In 2020, over 1,000 shipping containers containing kei trucks were sent to the U.S. from Japan, according Import Genius trade data. By 2023, the number of containers jumped to more than 4,000. This year’s [2024] figure looks to surpass that mark. – WSJ

    https://archive.ph/nBnUl#selection-5985.0-5985.212

    How complicated is this? Thousands of Americans are importing 25-year-old small, simple, lightweight trucks, because automakers in the US don’t offer them. DUHHH! Untapped market much??

  10. RE: Engine failures and overall quality slipping. Well, what was old is new again.
    The ‘70s piss poor body fit and finish, sloppy assembly work, thin paint jobs – it’s back baby! I complained about the subtle trim fit issues on my 2018 Grand Cherokee they made attempts to correct it but once poor quality is “baked in” good luck correcting it.
    One body shop guy summed it up “they’re spending on regulatory compliance and skimping on everything else”. I can almost tell you which Grand Cherokee is a 2018 by the misfit upper door trims and the chronic LH front fenders that are installed about a 1/16” too far back thus jammed into the A pillar and a tight clearance to the door.

    Then the ‘80s, GM 305 V8 soft cam failures, 454 oil burners, etc. And the glorious 200 series “metric” auto transmissions that would self destruct at about 60k miles.

    Once the bean counters over rule engineering and QA it’s over. No, you can’t short cut heat treat process. Yes, those cast iron blocks do need to age for two years (cast metal stress relief) prior to machining. Yes QA does need to do a batch sample to ensure those parts are good for final assembly. Can you “get away with it”, sometimes. Worth ruining your corporate reputation? Nope!

    • PS: My neighbor back in the ‘80s was a young mechanic at the local Chevy dealer. He did many V8 rear oil seal replacements under warranty. He was mad because too many came back in 6 months for the same leak, oil seal failed. Guy should have been an engineer – he was curious as to why, that no one could answer. So thought, is the crank moving while rotating wearing out the seal? Pulled the rear main cap, did the plastiguage check and found bearing clearance at the limit or out of tolerance on these engines. It was bad enough that an oversize bearing was required to get back into tolerance. The ones he fixed never came back. If I recall correctly his solution became a GM service fix for this chronic problem.

      • The inverse case would be, plastigauge shows bearing clearance below lower limit (too tight). Instead of the rear main seal failing, the bearing seizes up.

        No doubt such investigations are being done on GM’s failing L87 V8 engines. But we’ll never know the result, unless someone leaks it.

  11. “It’s as silly an idea as Playboy – back in the day – trying to sell magazines that featured scantily clad men to heterosexual men.”

    Porn check on aisle three.

    I think you meant Playgirl magazine?

    Asking for a friend.

    • It was definitely PlayGirl, but it was customized toward women. It was started by Douglas Lambert, whose wife gave him the idea of a “feminist” magazine to rival the success of PlayBoy. It failed miserably. Women do not get turned on visually like men do. That is why trashy romance novels are so poplar. It is much more fun to create him than seeing the reality across a magazine spread.

        • That is an interesting view, Ernie. I have only seen one naked man in my life, but I can’t say peeled potatoes is an image that ever came to mind. 😜

        • Interestingly one of my female friends & I were having a conversation about pockets, which men’s clothes have & are way more functional.

          I agree that not having pockets does suck, the thing is that women’s clothes are designed to show off the figure while men’s clothes are designed to conceal it. Which leaves a certain amount of baggies that you can put things into. …yes we could design women’s clothes with functional pockets but then they would all be running around looking like bull dykes. Which is not a bad thing, necessarily, it’s just that most women don’t seem to want to go out looking that way, more than they want functional pockets. As evidenced by the fact that they buy & wear this stuff.

          • The one thing I can think of that works with pockets for girls is the ‘70s cutoff summer shorts made from that years worn out jeans. The cutoff area would start to fringe and then the side seam start to unravel. By August it wasn’t just the weather that was hot!

            • In one of Seinfeld’s routines, he was lamenting the feeling of being naked as a man. He basically said he wanted to invent a belt with pockets hanging off so he could put his hands in his pockets while naked.

          • Hi Publius,

            Pockets are not enough space…this is why we, women, have pocketbooks. I carry half of the kitchen with me. Three or four pickets isn’t going to do it.

      • Ah yes, Playgirl. I remember it well. We would buy in on occasion and enjoyed it but also spent a lot of time giggling like little girls over the photos. It reminds me of a Seinfeld episode about nudity (the one with “good naked or bad naked.”) I think Elaine said something like “A naked woman is a work of art, a naked man is just … simian.”

    • Playboy went to hell back in 2015 I think when they featured a trans woman (sans penis) as their first transgender centerfold. No males were interested in viewing THAT. Go woke, go broke.

  12. This is kind of what I’ve been talking about in a different way. That is that these automakers KNEW this shit was going to blow up, one way or another, and they just don’t give a fuck.

    First, these corporations have “multi-national” or “foreign nationals” (aka eurofags) on their board of directors. Those eurofags didn’t get in control because they love cars, or engines, or the USA. Fuck no. They hate all of the above and the freedom that it brings the plebs.

    THAT is the entire reason for them being on the board, especially the CEOs that have essentially become celebrities that push the latest thing and are fawned over by the liberal lunatic MSM.

    They’re also clearly not involved because they’re particular good are running corporations, unless “running into the ground” is the criteria because they’re clearly good at that!

    They have always known this was going be a disaster, that they will just make it the problem of taxpayers to fix, and fix again, and again, while they walk away obscenely rich beyond our wildest dreams.

    All that wealth built on inflicting the misery of their insane agenda, 100%, no doubt on purpose.

  13. Perhaps we’ve reached Peak Insanity. Nature abhors idiocy and that’s what’s been pushing the rope of progress for some 25 years now thanks to the Gaia worshipers. If they have a “Vatican” it’s at 1001 I St. Sacramento, HQ of the CARB.

    I doubt Orange Man will do anything to correct this. It must collapse under the weight of its own contradictions, to borrow from A. Rand. What rises in its place is anyone’s guess at this point.

    We can only hope and pray…and keep our powder dry.

    • The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the state of entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time.

      The organized systems put into place which go against biological reality, human nature and 100+ years of automotive engineering and efficiency were doomed to fail at some point without constant artificial, external input.

      It seems a lot of chickens have come home to roost over the past few months.

  14. “Well, why not just cut out the middle man and have the engine power the wheels and nix the electric motors and battery pack?”

    I’d be ok eliminating the battery pack and having a locomotive style ICE-electric powerplant powering electric motors on one or both axles. There may be some advantage…particularly when towing heavy loads up long grades. Juice may not be worth the squeeze. The devices definitely are not.

    • I suspect the cooling problems there would be really tough to engineer out. The advantage of hub/pancake motors is compactness and high torque, and lighter weight.

      But when you’re towing and working them hard, those things are going to get hot. Same with regen braking, you’re pushing a whole lot of current through those windings.

      Simple air cooling probably won’t get you there, so you’re running some sort of liquid cooling, and if they’re hub motors now you have a bunch of hoses flexing constantly with suspension and steering. Not to mention the high current conductors flexing in the same modes.

      The devil is always in the details, and in design/engineering truly TANSTAAFL.

  15. ‘Also, I bet they are cheaping out on materials.’ — eric

    Me too. When an engine is ‘blueprinted’ for racing, every crank and con red bearing has its clearance checked and adjusted.

    Manufacturers don’t have time for that. Vendors are relied upon to produce parts to spec. If the bearing clearance is at or below the specified minimum, restricting oil flow, metal-to-metal friction will heat up the surfaces and weld them together, punching a rod through the block.

    We’ll see more of this. In a dying empire with little vocational education and a mostly mediocre workforce, basic functions like quality control go by the wayside. Fifty years on, we’ll be like Tanzanians trying to organize a moon launch, and ending up just setting the jungle on fire as the spider monkeys screech at us from the trees.

    • I’ve never “gotten” blueprinting. The tolerances on modern machines are so precise that little is gained by it. Though flowing and blueprinting things like ports and heads allow you to eke out every last bit of displacement and every last fraction of horsepower, it’s a really expensive process to do right and only worth it on high end rules based racing like NASCAR.

      When I build engines and when I talk to other builders, one of the unappreciated secrets to keeping it all together is Locktite. On rod bolts, main bolts, etc. Of course checking clearances is fundamental to the process.

      Love the Tanzanian visual.

      • Harley owner here, Locktite isn’t just a relationship it’s a love affair!

        The service manual is vital, as not just any Locktite will do. Cam sprocket and pinion sprocket bolts get a specific number red, as does the other end of the crank for the compensator / sprocket assy retainer bolt. Lots of Locktite Blue in lots of other places all over the externals of the engine and most anything bolted on.

        • They call em Milwaukee Shakers for good reason. I ride one too, but I only ride a few hundred miles per year these days, and the other 3 bikes and the convertibles get jealous if I spend too much time on one…

    • Hi Jim. Back in the 60’s didn’t Oldsmobile talk about select fit parts in their high performance engines to insure longer durability and higher performance? If so it is possible to do it but the desire has to be there first.

    • Modern “quality control” focuses a great deal more on following a process, versus sending out a product that functions well for what it was designed to do.

      Intercepting stuff that isn’t up to code costs money…so let’s see if we can get by with a wider tolerance so we can ship a higher percentage & meet those numbers.

      Most of the time, no one notices or complains. That’s a win, in corporate.

  16. ‘That thing being – wait for it! – an engine.’ — eric

    How’s that ‘engine’ thing workin’ out for EeeVee Mary over at GM? Not so well, I’m sorry to report:

    ‘Engine failures in almost 900,000 GM vehicles are being probed by the Feds, according to a new report from the New York Post.

    ‘U.S. auto safety regulators are investigating 877,710 General Motors vehicles with L87 V8 engines, including the popular Silverado, following 39 complaints of sudden engine failure.

    ‘NHTSA said the failures occur without warning, posing a crash risk. The issue, linked to bearing failures, can cause the engine to seize or a connecting rod to breach the engine block.’

    https://tinyurl.com/2e267fyw

    Bearing failures? What’s up with that? Over-stressed? Oil starvation? Overheating? V8s are a century-old technology, so needless to say, this shouldn’t be happening. But it gets worse:

    ‘A Deutsche Bank analyst commented on GM’s decision to acquire the remaining 10% of Cruise and integrate its development under GM’s operations.

    ‘The move shifts focus from costly robotaxi commercialization to advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS), like Level 3 autonomy for consumer vehicles. GM cited the high cost of scaling robotaxis, potentially in the tens of billions, as a key reason for the pivot, deeming it a poor risk/reward investment.’

    Which circles us back to Eric’s precept of ‘knowing your market, and knowing not to alienate your market.’ I don’t want no stinkin’ driver assistance. I won’t buy it. And I won’t accept it at any price, including FREE.

    So no sales for you, EeeVee Mary. Isn’t it about time you were turfed out? How did you induce ‘L87 V8 sudden death syndrome’? Gave them mRNA covid shots, did you, Nurse Mary?

    • Hi Jim,

      I think RG’s Caddy was one of these… remember? Brand-new and its engine failed shortly after they took delivery. And then they had to wrangle with GM to make it right. Ich scheisse uber alles!

      • Hi Eric.

        Whatever happened with durability testing of engines and other components? Back in the day everything got tested in test centers in places like Minnesota, Arizona etc. to make sure the car would last a few years past it’s warranty without problems. Now, not so much.

        • Hi Landru!

          Heck if I know – though I would be willing to bet that R&D is on a hurried-up schedule nowadays and much of it done “virtually” rather than actually. Also, I bet they are cheaping out on materials.

          • Virtual testing has become the bane of the auto industry. It is largely buzz word that “leadership” has glommed onto as the industry’s salvation.

            Why build expensive prototype vehicles and pay test engineers when you can pay an H1B visa holder to invent a questionable Simulink model and then “test” virtually. Problem is models are always over simplifications of the real world. Garbage in, garbage out.

            I’ve witnessed this transition over the course of my career in the industry. Where an OEM used to build 200 pre-production prototypes during the 90s – early 2000’s, they now build 75 – 90. There are not enough vehicles to do the physical test & validation work that needs to be done.

            • Hi Burn:

              If I remember history correctly; Michail Mil told the engineers under him to follow these simple rules:

              1- Make it simple

              2- Make it work

              3- Make it strong

              4- Make it last

              As you can tell nowhere did he say to make it cheap, lightweight or disposable. Property’s like that are probably bad in a helicopter.

              Perhaps we should consider these ideas in what we build, it’s probably not to late.

          • I work in engineering at the lower case car company. What Eric said is spot on MTB and Co just got rid of EVERYONE in durability test because as stated by another “leadership” dope ….”we dont need that anymore” lol

            • Hi Rob.

              You know if they “Proof Test” firearms maybe they should do that with cars. If your new rifle blew up after the third shot you would be angry and hurt badly, but if your new car’s engine seized solid after 1100 miles you might never buy the company’s products again. As that old customer retention joke goes “There are no new customers only someone else’s disgruntled former customers”. Sad that they can’t see that.

            • Are you serious? I only know a few at GM anymore and only in manufacturing but hadn’t heard this about durability. That is insanity!

        • I for one left native Minnesota in 80 because Halloween to April Fools its climate is dangerously unfit for human habitation. My brain doesnt operate well in cold like that. I dont drink so I never fit in anyway.

          Im putting Arizona off as long as my bones can stand this left coast downspout.
          Same reason as MN. Most of AZ climate is dangerously unfit for human life June thru September.

          Many great engineers in silly valley from those places in the good ol days 80s and 90s. Its always fit for human habitation there regardless of politics etc. Why homes are a million dolla.

          Such is the price of claustrophobia. I hate one thing. Being indoors smelling bad health.

          Fare thee well boomer snowbird. Enjoy goin mobile while it lasts cuz its over soon.

        • All steel which is hardenable has a very specific hardening and annealing process associated with it. Such as, water quench at 1250f, 500f anneal for 4 hours, ect.

          Modern parts makers don’t harden steels (like ball bearing steels) for maximum performance anymore. Parts makers have gone to heat treatment processes that are tailored specifically to meet warranty requirements, and no more.

          The reason is to sell more parts, obviously. Keep them coming back.

          When we figure out how to make manufacturers of the parts (and the companies that buy them) heat treat them for maximum performance, we’ll see the turnaround.

          • Like someone mentioned previously “devil in the details”.

            All manufacturing processes are in place for a reason. Material specs for a reason. Fastener grades for a reason.
            In aerospace before it all went digital we had multiple specification books that were the size of an old school Encyclopedia Brittanica set. Design guides a whole nother set.

            Most people have no idea what it takes to get a quality reliable product to market.

            I had a supervisor chide me “why do you spend so much time fussing over fasteners?” I reminded him you aren’t getting aircraft grade nuts and bolts at Home Depot. Told him “I’ll have the factory manager call YOU when he can’t install the flight control system due to missing fasteners”.

            • Supervisors are usually supervisors because they’re otherwise inept.

              When I was working at a major amusement park as a “Ride Maintenance Mechanic”, I was on the team that was getting the giant “sky swing” ride ready for opening. The ride spins by rotating the swing platform on a series of truck tires. As you might well imagine form a setup like that, checking the tire pressure is a big part of the opening day checks.

              It took our “supervisor” an hour to get us an air compressor. He ended up borrowing one from the paint department. He plugged in in, fired it up, and it then became a “head scratching moment” when it would only go to about 50 psi. We needed something like 135 psi, I can’t recall exactly. Adjustments to the regulator produced no effect. Clearly (to me, anyway), the painters had adjusted the electric regulator inside.

              So I said “Let me fix it.” I took the plastic cowl off of it with a screwdriver, found the regulator, and turned the screw. The compressor came to life and began filling up to its max pressure.

              He looked at me with amazement and said “I didn’t even know you could do that.”
              I said, “That’s why you’re the supervisor.”

    • Some of these new V8’s have died in under 500 miles and the replacement engines have died even quicker. It’s a sad day when a GM engine fails quicker than than what’s in a KIA.

      As for those EV’s from Dodge; apparently those cars are bricking almost instantly, many of which need new batteries before leaving the dealer lot (it sounds like a problem with the chips embedded with the batteries).

      Let’s just hope these experts don’t get involved with a redesign of the Amish wagons or then no one will be going anywhere.

    • I guarantee it is a lot more than 39 complaints…those are probably the ones that filed lawsuits. The service manager at the Cadillac dealership said this was becoming pretty standard and this was back in July 2023. I am sure it has gotten worse since then.

      One of the happiest days of my life is when I got that piece of crap lemon lawed. It is the quality of the materials they are using (or not using) along with zero quality control. They think by offering one a refurbished engine it makes everything better. Things today are not the worth the price we pay for them.

      I will never buy a new car again.

      • They think by offering one a refurbished engine it makes everything better.

        Totally agree that simply offering an engine swap is a disgrace.

        Once the engine is removed and replaced, the vehicle is never the same. New squeaks, rattles, leaks, pinched wiring, the list of potential install mistakes is endless.

        Then there is the loss of residual value that comes with a vehicle history like that.

        Glad you got yours bought back. It’s what any OEM should do . . . But all actively resist doing. Shame on all of them (including Toyota!).

        • It took five months and a UAW strike. GM refused a buyback, but after we threw a fit on a refurbished engine on a car that we just spent close to six figures on they agreed to provide us a new vehicle. Thanks to the UAW strike that October and me being a first rate bitch the General Manager at Cadillac through up his hands and called GM to push for a buyback.

        • Hi Philo,

          After the Cadillac fiasco hubby and I decided we were going to invest on various cars…late 1950s to early 2000s. We have purchased a few “newer” cars (early 2000s), but nothing from the 60s or 70s yet. Right now we are still shopping for land to build a butler building since we have run out of garage/shed space at the house.

          I do want a 1970 Chevelle and they actually have come down a little in price. So hopefully within the next year or two.

          • Big thumbs up on the ‘70 Chevelle! Solid midsize with many common parts across the GM family. Maybe a ‘71? The Commander had a ‘71 Nova I think that was the first year “no lead heads” in the 307 V8. What a wonderful car, Turbo 350 automatic that was bullet proof. We sold it at 18 years old what a mistake.

            The gal we bought it from had a brother worked at the Chevy dealer. Swung a special order for her on the paint, ‘68 Camaro Hugger Orange.
            Codes plate on the firewall had “ – – “ for the paint code so we had a rare Nova didn’t appreciate that at the time.

    • “U.S. auto safety regulators are investigating 877,710 General Motors vehicles with L87 V8 engines, including the popular Silverado, following 39 complaints of sudden engine failure.”

      I’m not saying there isn’t a problem with these engines but the numbers here don’t add up and are a case study in America’s’ math illiteracy problem.

      39/900,000 is 0.0000433333. That is a failure rate of 4 engines per 100,000 vehicles. This is not worthy of NHTSA involvement.

      Of these reported failures you can be assured some smaller percentage of those 39 that failed were caused by willful neglect as a customer and as trying to force a lemon law buyback.

      There must be a lot more going on behind the scenes than these numbers alone reflect.

      A disgruntled union member who working on an engine assembly line can easily cause a failure rate of 4 per 100,000 must by sabotaging a bearing install here or there.

      Same for any disgruntled QC inspector that fails to do proper audits.

      Same for any management that fails to heed the advice of QC and tries to push engines out the door in order to “make the days production numbers”.

      Something is fishy

        • Hi BID,

          Ours went 10 days after purchase and 260 miles and it was a complete brake failure. The engine seized at the dealership under the driving of the Service Manager. That’s when they told us there was a bearing problem.

          There is a whole lot more than 39 cases. I guarantee my number isn’t included in that. The Service Manager had already stated that it had occurred a few other times with other Cadillac engines. Unfortunately, it will probably take years for the actual truth to come out. It was either an engineering design flaw or the assembly plant was purposely skipping steps on the assembly line.

          Just to note, the engine failures are all vehicles being built in the Arlington, Texas plant. Something the NHTSA may want to look into.

      • Hi Burn,

        I’m hoping RG will chime in on this one. As I recall, she and her husband bought a new Escalade and within just a couple of weeks of having bought it, the engine failed catastrophically. I do not know exactly why, but I think the relevant question is – how could this have happened (absent abuse) given it was brand new and so, presumably, in “as new” working condition, with a crankcase full of fresh/clean oil? Anything you just buy that fails shortly after you buy merely because you used it for its designed/stated purpose is shoddy or defective, isn’t it?

        • “Anything you just buy that fails shortly after you buy merely because you used it for its designed/stated purpose is shoddy or defective, isn’t it?”

          Fully aligned to that.

          My main intent of my initial post is that the numbers don’t add up to a problem significant enough for NHTSA insolvent.

          I think there is more to this story than the numbers reflect.

          • Hi BID,

            I think this is a situation for the courts rather than the government. People have been defrauded, as I see it. GM ought to be made by the courts to make whole those it defrauded. I think this is how product liability stuff ought to be handled.

            • So true – and again in total agreement.

              The crux of this though is that the courts ARE Government and they ARE corrupt.

              In a true libertarian sense – ought to be private third party, independent binding arbitration that can’t be swayed by big corporate money and close connections to government.

      • Burn, I was wondering about that too.
        In my industry ‘engineered equipment’, an acceptable warranty rate is anything under 2-3%. Once we hit 4-5% on a particular model, we open an investigation to fix it.

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