You may remember the Toyota Avalon, which was Toyota’s top-of-the-line sedan. When it was last available – only three years ago – it came standard with a 3.5 liter V6 that touted 301 horsepower (this same engine used to be available in the slightly smaller Camry, until it was pulled from the lineup shortly after the Avalon was cancelled).
The Avalon’s replacement is a new model called Crown – and here’s where the juxtaposition gets interesting.
Just three years ago (less really as we’re only halfway through 2025) you could buy a brand-new 2022 Avalon with a V6 for $36,825. A 2025 Crown stickers for $41,440 to start – and for that you get a four cylinder/hybrid combo. But that’s not the most interesting thing. The Crown is available with a more powerful iteration of the hybrid combo that bolsters the output of the four using a turbo. The combined output increases to 340 horsepower and the MSRP increases to $54,990.
That used to buy a Lexus – and not an entry level model, either.
It amounts to an $18k increase vs. what it used to cost to buy a V6-powered Avalon. Put more finely, it amounts to a pricing out of middle-income people from owning a top-of-the-line Toyota; at least, one with any guts. The standard-engined Crown does deliver much better gas mileage than the Avalon (42 city, 41 highway vs. 22 city, 32 highway) but you’re not going to be saving any money. And you’re not getting better performance, either. The V6-equipped Avalon was quicker than the base-engined Crown.
Equipped with its available turbo-hybrid drivetrain, the Crown is quicker – but only slightly, because despite its horsepower advantage it has a weight disadvantage. The Avalon weighed 3,570 lbs. with its V6 engine. The Crown – with its turbo-hybrid drivetrain – weighs 4,343 lbs.
At least you get something more (literally) for your money.
But the point here is what you don’t get anymore – unless you have the extra $18k to spend to get it. That being power/performance equivalent to what you used to get in a top-of-the-line Toyota sedan less than three years ago. Put another way, the Crown – which is a nice car, as such – is a rolling barometer of our enserfment. The only people who can afford it – with its V6-equivalent turbo-hybrid drivetrain – are people with Lexus money to spend and even the base-engined Crown takes another $6k to buy vs. what it cost to buy an Avalon with a V6 less than three years ago.
A pattern – more like a trend – can be discerned. People of ordinary American means are being pushed out of of the kinds of cars they used to commonly be able to buy; i.e., nice cars with something more than a pathetic little four. Those with memories that extend farther back in time than 2015 or so will remember when a V6 was the base engine in many American cars that ordinary Americans could afford and there were even still V8 powered sedans within the means of ordinary Americans.
The Avalon, for instance, competed most directly with the Dodge Charger and its Chrysler- badged twin, the 300. All three came standard with V6 engines. If you wanted something a a little smaller and a little less expensive, there were sedans like the Camry and its main rivals, the Honda Accord and the Mazda6. They all offered V6 engines as optional equipment. Now none of them do. The Mazda6 is gone (probably because a Mazda4 would not sell). The Camry and the Accord come only with turbo-hybrid fours now and both cost as much so equipped as they used to with a V6. 
The hollowing out proceeds apace.
In another few years, it is likely that a four will seem luxurious and special because a car equipped with one will cost more than a car equipped with a V8 used to. As a final juxtaposition in relation to the latter, as recently as 2011 it was still possible for average Americans to buy a full-size/six-passenger, rear-drive sedan with a standard V8 engine – the Ford Crown Victoria – for about what it costs to buy a smaller, front-drive Camry with a four today.
A few years hence, Americans will likely count themselves fortunate to be able to afford a Corolla with a three.
If you like what you’ve found here please consider supporting EPautos.
We depend on you to keep the wheels turning!
Our donate button is here.
If you prefer not to use PayPal, our mailing address is:
EPautos
721 Hummingbird Lane SE
Copper Hill, VA 24079
PS: Get an EPautos magnet or sticker or coaster in return for a $25 or more one-time donation or a $10 or more monthly recurring donation. (Please be sure to tell us you want a magnet or sticker or coaster – and also, provide an address, so we know where to mail the thing!)
If you’d like a Baaaaa hat or other EPautos gear, see here!
We rented a Crown (not the top of the line Platinum) recently for a long trip since all of our cars are on the wrong side of 100k miles. That’s a mistake we won’t make again.
The 4-cylinder sounded like a tractor when you gave it the whip, the safety nannies were constantly jerking the wheel if the stupid HAL 9000 thought you were straying from your lane and the car constantly demanded that you keep your eyes where its stupid camera mounted on the steering column could see them. The automatic braking gave us whiplash when it thought I was going to back into a pole.
The car was constantly beeping and dinging at you, ironically, to keep you FROM BEING DISTRACTED. It had a passive/aggressive speed limit display on the dash that glowed red if you exceeded the speed limit by ONE MPH.
As part of my job, I work on several DoD programs and I’ve flown F-16s and F-35s in the simulator. Their “bitching betty” warning systems don’t gripe as much as this car did at me.
Modern cars suck because they’re designed by the government, basically. All of the layers of stupid and often contradictory regulations have made them lifeless, overweight and costly jelly beans.
I won’t buy a new car or truck ever and will do everything to keep my existing cars and trucks on the road. If the future “government” decides that I’m not allowed to drive my “end of life” vehicles, they can try to pry them from my cold, dead fingers. Which I think is the general idea. I’ve always believed WE are the carbon they seek to eliminate.
“end of life” vehicles- saying I have one- those are fighting words. What does that even mean? Gov thinks I should sell it at a certain age? Its at the end when I say it is, or maybe never. Maybe I will be too old to continue maintaining it and it will be sold to another who will keep it running. Is end of life at 15 years old? Because my truck has been running for 25 years over that 15 years, and I see no reason it will suddenly not be worth fixing. The transmission was just rebuilt the first time after 38 years and the burn out was my fault. At this rate, I anticipate an engine rebuild on the diesel might be needed sometime in the 2040s, or maybe not. Crosshatching is still seen in the cylinder bores at 170k miles so who knows.
I think he means EOL as in the driver’s last car. If so I’m in the same boat, accumulating cars and parts to keep them running as long as possible. I figure that a couple of options will present themselves. One case is I need ride out a few years of relentless pressure to replace them. I won’t be alone, though, so hopefully I just need to stockpile important things not unlike the COVID times with some things. The other is the whole thing just collapses and I convert the truck into a wagon and get a horse. I don’t see a case where they just give up and let us be, though.
“I’ve always believed WE are the carbon they seek to eliminate.”
I agree 100% with this statement, but I am always disappointed with people who cannot name the “they”.
“They” have been telling us that any day the oceans would rise up and swallow us and the glaciers would melt and turn the planet into a desert just about as long as “they” have been telling us that any day Libya, Syria, Iraq and Iran would have WMD. Just as long as “they” have been telling us that there is only one race, the human race. Just as long as “they” have been telling us the gay marriage and abortion and pornography are “human rights”. Just as long as “they” have been telling us that whites are the worst race on the planet because of “muh slabbery” and “colonization”. I am certain you get the point.
Alex Jones and the limited hangout MAGA right would tell us “they” are “the globalists” without identifying a single person or group.
So who are “they”? If it was just the Germans, “they” would only be doing it in Germany, or everywhere else but Germany, but not everywhere. Ditto France, New Zealand, Iceland, Switzerland and on and on. Which group of people has a powerful diaspora everywhere?
The Jews, of course. In Mein Kampf Hitler famously claimed that “Jews stick together like a clump of burrs”. “The Jews” is just an acronym for all the tutti-frutti Jewish factions that stick together like a clump of burrs whenever something might be bad for “the Jews”. “The Jews” are the group that unite together to restrict free speech and illegalize and counter narratives to their dogmas about things like “blood libel”, “pogroms”, “holocaust”, and most of all “antisemitism”. Trump, Merz, Macron, Kommissar Leyen, Starmer and every person with political power in the Noahide empire all agree that Jews never do anything wrong and any criticism of them is hate and antisemitism. Even as the Jews start aggressive wars, bomb civilians and commit genocide all across the middle east.
So if the group that wants to take away our fundamental right to choose our form of modern transportation in all its forms is “The Jews”, who are the individual Jews forcing this on us? Alex Karp, Peter Theil, Larry Ellison, Miriam Adelson, Bibi Netanyahu, Rabbis Lazar and Schmuley, Lynn Forester de Rothschild, Nathaniel Philip Rothschild. I could go on and on.
I defy anybody who claims to not be an “antisemite” to come up with a list of the 10 “globalists” who are not Jewish who are pushing all the Jewish programs I listed above.
You may be wondering, why would “the Jews” want to strip us of our right to choose simple, reliable and inexpensive automotive transport? Well you need to understand Judea’s 2000 year old war against Rome, the third temple, Eretz Israel, Yahweh, Noahide laws, Kalergi plan, Amalekites, their belief that they are “gods chosen people”, and the promise of the Talmud that they will all get 3000 goyim slaves.
I don’t know if anyone here saw this, but sales of Jaguar tanked after they launched an ad last year that was full of freaks but had NONE of their cars in it….looks like Jaguar also decided to eventually make ONLY EVs, which may have also caused sales to tank, but some of the automotive press tried to put a positive spin on Jaguar’s troubles……
https://rumble.com/v6vnu1b-jaguar-sales-take-a-nosedive-post-freaky-commercial.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp_a
Hi John,
I think one of the main problems besetting Jaguar is the same one besetting all luxury brands. It is that all luxury brands are having to persuade people to pay 2-3 times as much for the same thing, basically, they could get from a non-luxury brand. The typical new luxury crossover, for instance, has a 2.0 liter four, AWD and a big touchscreen. And so does every other crossover (just about). The difference is the latter costs $20,000 less than the former.
Hi Eric,
How many people are even buying new cars these days given that they’re increasingly expensive, they’re equipped with all sorts of Nanny State, Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety, and spying technology, and they appear to be as well built as a modern day Boeing airplane.
Amen, John –
I was talking about just this the other day with the delivery driver who brings me the cars (and picks them up a week later). I mentioned that my ’02 Nissan pickup cost about $12,000 when it was new while the least expensive new pickup costs nearly $30k – and has “features” I do not want, such as a huge LCD touchscreen, “assistance technology,” automatic-only transmission and power windows, locks, etc. Thanks, no. I’ll keep my truck.
Eric – you think thats bad, go to the UK website of Lexus or Toyota and check the specs and prices there – you will be shocked. At least 30-40% more than what US cars cost…. thats what you get in a socialist society…. At the same time, our dear leaders are all entitled to the latest Range Rover Sentinels (a car so exclusive they dont even quote the price to us plebs, because you need special government permission to even order one!)
Morning, Nasir!
Yup. Socialism – on the way to Communism – is insufferable for exactly that reason. Smug shit-faced “elites” live opulently while everyone else lives in poverty. These “elites” insist that “sacrifices” must be made “for the good of society.” Meaning, for the good of themselves, at the expense of everyone else. Socialism/Communism is a cancer and must be treated accordingly.
A good example of “elites” who live opulently while preaching to the masses WE should make “sacrifices for the societal good” include Bill Gates, John Kerry, Barack Obama, Jeff Bezos, etc.
Here it comes:
‘Starting July 1, Delhi has enforced a strict ban on refueling older vehicles as part of a broader effort to reduce air pollution, according to the Economic Times.
‘Under the new rule, petrol vehicles older than 15 years and diesel vehicles over 10 years are prohibited from buying fuel at any petrol pump in the capital. This measure is aimed at removing End-of-Life Vehicles (ELVs) from circulation, which are considered major contributors to Delhi’s worsening air quality.
‘To ensure compliance, the government has deployed surveillance systems and enforcement personnel across the city. Those caught violating the rule face heavy penalties: ₹10,000 for four-wheelers and ₹5,000 for two-wheelers. Authorities may also impound or scrap vehicles found flouting the ban.’
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/delhi-bans-fuel-older-vehicles-pollution-crackdown
This crackdown is only in the Indian capital of Delhi, not the whole country. But it sets a precedent.
They’ll peel my ELVs (End-of-Life Vehicles) out of my cold, dead hands.
In Europe they have ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zones) to accomplish the same goal.
Good comments from the ZH article:
“Poor air quality is not just from vehicles in India. It is also from burning garbage, burning corpses, burning straw, heating rooms using charcoal.
Confiscating cars older than 10 years in a country where the price of a car can be 5-8 times the annual income. It will only impoverish the middle class.”
This one is interesting because it discusses the Ram diesels Eric just reviewed that are good for 1m miles.
“Since when is a 10-15 year old vehicle “end of life”? Especially for diesels, I see tons of old 5.9 cummins rams still pounding the pavement around here. And transport trucks? Forget about it, most trucks I work on are at least 10 years old. All my personal vehicles are 20 years old and I expect AT LEAST 5 more from them.
What a joke.”
Amen, Brosi –
I think there was a “problem” that had to be solved. The “problem” was that by the early-mid 2000s, it was common for vehicles to run reliably for 15-20 years and still be viable for years after that. Before this golden era, most cars were falling apart by 10 years old and 100,000 miles. This kept people buying new cars much more often. Then they no longer had to. That was the “problem.” The solution is to make new cars less long-term reliable and far more expensive to keep going when they need repairs, so as to accelerate their being thrown-away.
Brosi – you have no idea what a scam the Ulez is… interestingly, it applies to the very cars the government pushed onto the people in the late 90s / early 2000s – ie small city diesel cars which were lower on “co2 emissions”. But now they give off “particulates” which are suddenly bad. Yes many of these are brilliant (I still have my 07 diesel BMW) – but its like it was planned all along… I do wonder what they are planning for all the sheep happily complying and buying electric or others today…
Other countries in Europe are also implementing different forms of “ULEZ”.
I think it was the US (including Tesla and Musk) who killed the diesel in passenger autos and light trucks. That was why the EPA made an example of VW. All the diesel manufacturers were using the same Bosch Common Rail tool kit to program their direct injection systems, but only VW was fined $20B. Why? The Judeo-Communist expression is “strangle the chicken to scare the monkey”.
Diesels were just too efficient and too durable, so EV’s would never have had a chance. Besides it was the German manufacturers who were leading the planet in diesel engine technology.
Since the US is run by Jews, and Jews had already tried to genocide Germany in the two world wars they started so that they could steal Palestine, it should come as no surprise that they decided to destroy diesels in cars.
It should also come as no surprise that the US next sabotaged the Nordstream pipeline in order to crush German industry. This too was a part of Judea’s ancient war against Edom.
At CRUX live, Tel Aviv is not looking too good these days.
When you’re losing at the game of war, you beg for a cease-fire.
Israel is getting spanked pretty hard by Iranian defense systems.
No other choice, the Chosen are leaving in droves, extirpated at this point in time.
Iran can take its time, might as well, Israel can’t do much about it anyway.
Exactly what happened.
You know diesel is such a brilliant system – and it’s so well suited for American driving (long distances, steady and high speeds and large and heavy cars). My dad had one when I was a child in the 80s, i never understood why they were never more broadly adopted out there…. I guess I do now…
Interestingly – they were forced onto Europe through tax incentives as part of the CO2 global warming scam, a place where I would argue its not too suitable for (mostly short distances, low speeds, lots of stop and go, small light cars) which means engine efficiency is not as high, and more buildup of NOx in congested cities… Again I suspect as part of the plot to disgrace it…
I would assert that diesels became popular in Europe because many countries there, before the EU, had lower taxes on diesel because it was used by trucking companies.
Soon automobile manufacturers offered small diesels in their cheaper models, starting in the 1970’s. This is likely why the famous Mercedes 200E diesel became famous across Europe and North Africa. Then came the oil crisis in 1973, and the Mercedes even made it into the US despite road taxes not being cheaper lower for diesel fuel.
It might also have something to do with diesel being easier to refine and that the original diesel cars could burn anything, even vegetable frying oil.
Hi Jim,
What are the odds that states here who’ve gone all in on demented climate change goals will try to impose something similar on their citizens?
The Crown is Made in Japan, arguably Lexus quality.
Toyota still makes the Avalon in China for that market.
Ford still makes the Fusion/Mondeo in China, and a domestic manufacturer in that country bought the tooling out of the Louisiana plant that made the IC Hummer.
Keeping my Crown Victorias and Grand Marquis. Toyotas had to go, too many miles and rust.
“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday […] it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.” – Geo Orwell 1984
And in 2030 we will thank Big Brother for permitting our 4 cylinder engines after meeting our climate change goals ahead of schedule. Oh the Earth was still warming, but through hard work and sacrifices we only kept the climate change to 1.5º F. Only a few years ago that 1.5º increase was fatal, but no one remembers those dark days.
This is why my last two vehicles have been a used 2007 Avalon and a used 2013 Lexus ES350, both sporting the 3.5 V6 which is one of the best engines of the last twenty years in terms of longevity. The Avalon has 300K miles on it and it the daily driver. I have no desire for anything newer and given my age, these will do for the remainder of my life. The young people I know are mightily pissed at what government has done for their prospects, and I concur….unfortunately they have been largely brainwashed into believing the likes of Marx had any legitimate answers.
Morning, Giuseppe!
I amen the comments in re the Toyota/Lexus 3.5 V6. That this excellent engine has been effectively forced off the market in favor of turbocharged fours that are more complex, have more parts and are under more pressure and so almost certain to be less long-term reliable and guaranteed to be more costly to repair is a kind of silent outrage that I wish more knew about.
I also agree in re the young people situation. FI read the other day that the average age of a first-time homebuyer is now mid-50s. I was 28 when I bought my first home, in Northern VA – which I was able to do because it only cost $155k. That same house today would list for $600k and if anything, the neighborhood is worse than it was when I bought the house back in the ’90s. Even in my area – SW VA – it’s hard to find a single wide on a small lot for less than $200k now.
What is it with the fascia and grille of the Toyotas the past few years? They’re all butt-ugly.
Who the hell designed those? They look like a fucking lamprey or something.
They owe a free car cover so you don’t have to look at the ugly beast!
‘the point here is what you don’t get anymore – unless you have the extra $18k to spend to get it’ — eric
And there’s another shoe about to drop:
‘This morning Japan’s Nikkei admitted that for the past three months Japan’s car industry has been footing all the tariff-related costs following Trump’s Liberation Day announcement.
‘Despite weeks of negotiation, the US-Japan teams have gotten nowhere with just one week left to go until the July 9 deadline.
‘So what does Japan do now? Well, after eating billions of dollars in losses for months, Japan’s carmakers have no choice but to do what everyone assumed they would do from day one: raise prices.
According to the Nikkei, Subaru and Mitsubishi have started to raise prices while Mazda is exploring doing so (none of this is actually reflected stateside yet). According to the Nikkei, “they have little choice but to raise prices, having reached their limit in absorbing cost increases.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/japan-finally-admits-its-carmakers-have-been-paying-all-trump-tariff-costs-trade-talks
Prices on Japanese cars are headed only one way: UP.
Thanks, Donnie! But I’m still not buying Americlown. :angry face:
“But! But! But! Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiimate change! The planet will be saaaaaaaaaaaaaved if only uber wealthy elitist snobs can afford an automobile!” (Heavy sarcasm)
In all seriousness though, people who STILL belieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve the narratives around “Man-made climate change” appear to be little more than useful idiots for the same billionaires that they likely bash on a daily basis.
Why do these things get so damn heavy? A Toyota Prius, with a hybrid 4-cylinder, weighs 3,300. The Crown without the turbo, is just shy of 4,000lb, while the turbo version weighs the 4,343. It’s crazy to weigh 700 lb more than a Prius, with similar engine arrangement, and it’s even crazier to gain 360lb when adding a turbo.
These new efficiency technologies are great, but they’re not magic, it takes more energy to move more weight. I drive up a 7,000 ft mountain at least twice a month, and often have friends join. This being CA, lots of these friends have hybrids or EV’s. The drive is about 160 miles, and not one of the 300 mile rated EV’s can make it there on a full charge. The hybrids make it just fine, but they get terrible gas mileage doing it. The EPA test cycle doesn’t include inclines, just driving around on flat ground, where the weight matters less, but once you start driving cars in the real world, these fancy technologies fall apart unless you’re driving in the plains in fair weather.
OppositeLock-
According to NHTSA’s own report Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard add somewhere around 200lbs and $2600 to the cost of a brand new 2012 car with the standards at the time. I believe that figure underestimates the effect of teh safety standards. The major driver on the 2008-12 cars was the revisions to FMVSS 208 and 214 which deal with side impact and rollover crash resistance. The sick irony of all of this is that the fatality rate bottomed out in 2013 or so, before these “safety cars” achieved critical mass on the highways. As their numbers achieved majority, the fatality rate has increased and has never returned to the 2013 all time low.
The other reason for increased weight of course is hybrid and electric drivetrains.
I have never liked hybrids for the reasons that you stated. The idea that a hybrid can make better mileage in the city than on the highway never set well with me. It never will.
I don’t care about gas mielage, though. I’ll stick with my old cars
OppositeLock-
According to NHTSA’s own report Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard add somewhere around 200lbs and $2600 to the cost of a brand new 2012 car with the standards at the time. I believe that figure underestimates the effect of teh safety standards. The major driver on the 2008-12 cars was the revisions to FMVSS 208 and 214 which deal with side impact and rollover crash resistance. The sick irony of all of this is that the fatality rate bottomed out in 2013 or so, before these “safety cars” achieved critical mass on the highways. As their numbers achieved majority, the fatality rate has increased and has never returned to the 2013 all time low.
The other reason for increased weight of course is hybrid and electric drivetrains.
I have never liked hybrids for the reasons that you stated. The idea that a hybrid can make better mileage in the city than on the highway never set well with me. It never will.
I don’t care about gas mileage, though. I’ll stick with my old cars
“The Avalon weighed 3,570 lbs. with its V6 engine.”
Still nothing to brag about. That’s almost 700 pounds more than the 64 Chevelle with its V8 engine.
Amazing isn’t it? That all steel and cast iron Chevelle weighs less than a plastic and aluminum modern car.
Yet despite its heft, the porky Avalon (or slightly smaller Camry) will still run 14 second qtrs/sub 6 0-60, handle like its on a rail, VERY comfortably carry 4 adults & pull 30+mpg all day with the AC on full blast….and if maintained, easily run to 400k miles.
And it’ll depreciate like frozen molasses.
‘A few years hence, Americans will likely count themselves fortunate to be able to afford a Corolla with a three.’ — eric
Your engine displacement ration has been increased to three cylinders, comrade.
And you have qualified for a special holiday bonus of 20 grams of chocolate!
Happy Dependence Day. 🙂