Toyota just announced a voluntary recall – meaning no government force is involved – of more than a half-million (591,000 to be precise) Toyota/Lexus models with the 12.3 inch touchscreen because the display may “go blank on start-up.” This is bad news because it’s not only that you can’t see anything – other than a blank screen – you can’t control the things that are only accessible/operable via tap/swiping the touchscreen. When the screen goes dark, so do the tap-swipe controls and since there are often not back-up ways of controlling some of these things, you may no longer have control over such things as the AC/heat controls and the audio system controls.
This is one of the risks you buy into when you buy a vehicle that has a touchscreen display. The display, like most electronic things, works until one day it doesn’t. When that day comes, you may no longer know how fast you’re driving – because the LCD speed display went dark and now you can’t change the radio station, either, because the controls were on the screen that just went dark.
Affected models are basically all the models Toyota (and Lexus) sell since they all now have touchscreens in lieu of instrument clusters, which are becoming a relic of the rapidly receding world of about 15 minutes ago.
Or so it feels.
It was only about 15 years ago that most new vehicles still had instrument clusters with gauges rather than LCD displays because in those days, LCD displays were still pretty new and so still pretty expensive and that’s why you found them almost exclusively in luxury-brand vehicles back then. Now you find them in everything, including mass-market models such as the Camry and RAV4, two of Toyota’s best-selling models, which attained that honor in part because so many buyers believe these are among Toyota’s most reliable.
Well, they were.
Both of them are now recalled, if they are equipped with the glitchy 12.3 inch touchscreen. Also afflicted are the new Crown and Crown Signia wagon, the 4Runner SUV and Tacoma pickup and Highlander/Grand Highlander. Most affected, perhaps, will be Toyota – as these recalls are beginning to mar Toyota’s rep for being the reliable brand. Which it was and Lexus even more so (probably because most Lexus models are still made in Japan).
These LCD screens are going to end that – and not just the Toyotas so equipped. LCD touchscreens are all likely to prove unreliable en mass because for one thing, they’re all sourced from Chyna, where they are expert at making things cheap and quickly and in quantity. LCD screens are the one thing that almost anyone can still afford. Enter the humblest single wide in Arkansas and likelier than not, you will find a 70-inch LCD display TeeVee within. Pick one up today on sale at Best Buy for $399.
How long does one of those generally last before it starts to glitch? The screen starts showing dots or lines and the software can’t be updated anymore so it no longer works anymore . . . . This seems to commonly happen after about five years or so and that’s pushing it for a “smart” device designed to become stupid pretty quickly via becoming out-of-date and can’t be updated anymore.
They do that on purpose because the whole point of all this “technology” is that we throw it away as soon as decently possible and buy the latest “technology.” This keeps everything humming right along. It has worked brilliantly for the makers of smartphones and related gadgets. It is going to work brilliantly for the vehicle manufacturers, too – or so they thought.
For awhile, at least.
But -at some point – it is a certainty that most people will no longer be able to afford a new vehicle every four or five years or want to buy into what you get with a new vehicle. When that day arrives – and we have probably already passed it but don’t yet know it – there will be a great winnowing. Brands disappearing again, soon (as they did back in ’09 for those who are Rememberers). Whether intentional or just inevitable the end result is the same.
All of this is so new. It takes awhile for things to become clear.
Remember that until just a few years ago, most new vehicles did not come with LCD displays and most people today have not yet owned a car with one because most people have not bought a new vehicle within the past few years. When they first see that big screen, they are apt to be impressed. They do look impressive, the first time you see one because it is not like anything you’ve seen outside of the movies. Big wow factor that first time. It becomes blase quickly when everyone has one and so everyone has seen one. Hey! Look! I just got the new iPhone XVIIIx51.2!
Well, good for you. My $60 Wal-Mart Samsung does pretty much the same. Just like the speedometer in my 24-year-old truck, which is still working. One day, it may stop working, but because it’s not an LCD touchscreen, it can be repaired. More important, the other controls will work. I will still be able to change stations – and turn up the heat (or turn the AC off) because there are separate controls for those things and they are still just electrical switches controlled by knobs and levers rather than by screens that just go dark one day. If that day is a day after the warranty expires, you’ll find out what that means. And it is likely to mean even more than that when the thing fails and you can’t find a replacement – at any cost.
Don’t worry! We’ll just fold the balance due on your old loan into your new and you’ll be driving home in that new 6000X this very evening!
Except it’ll be a miserable little crossover with a .5 liter one cylinder engine augmented by “hybrid technology” that’ll only cost you $35,000 . . . .
But look! It has an 18 inch touchscreen.
. . .
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Eric, your commentaries are great, but I have a question:
If all of these cars are shit, crap, garbage, etc. – why do you keep reviewing them?
I mean, you make your living this way, but wouldn’t it just be easier to write a column and say “that’s it, all new cars are crap and I’m outta here” and be done with it?
Hi Jim,
I keep hoping things will improve!
I see an aftermarket opportunity for some enterprising coder/developer. It would involve an interface device via the OBD port and Bluetooth to your smartphone with all of the controls displayed on the phone after the LCD panel craps the bed. I want royalties from the patent, thank you.
Welp, time to add Toyota to the very long list of “used to be reliable”. I’m surprised it took the Japanese conglomerate so long to become “compliant”. Wonder if the big kahunas got any death threats from the UN/WEF/etc.
Not sure how old is old enough. The engine immobilizer in my 2002 Volkswagen just decided to trip and not let the car start. I have diagnostic software for it, not from the factory but does most things. One thing it cannot do is disable the engine immobilizer unfortunately.
I’m not sure the dealer can even do anything. They can’t program new keys anymore (they no longer have the system to read the ECU value needed to generate the programming cipher seed). So it even if they ever could they probably can’t now. It can program new keys and I can see the faults it’s stored. I’ve gone through the standard things, checking connections, checking the sensors in the circuit. So all that is left is the actual pickup ring around the key or the ECU itself has a fault.
Point being if you’re going to get an old car make sure it’s old enough to pre-date ALL the electronic junk. VW started using RFID chip keys and immobilizers it appears in or around 1999. Up until about 2005 or so the system was pretty simple so I’ve been able to work around the glitches and oddities.
But now I’m stuck. One option might be to find an ECU tuner who knows how to hack them to completely delete the immobilizer. I don’t know how to find one but they are talked about on forums.
Add me to that list with a 1999 Toyota Land Cruiser. The immobilizer put me dead in the water for a while, too. Although my mechanic was able to figure out a repair and didn’t bend me over too bad. I guess in the case of 100 series it’s a know thing and he was able to find it on an Internet chat room.
Trying to delete an engine immobilizer can be an adventure in frustration. I’m no rookie to firmware and dealing with EEPROMs and flash memory but I managed to brick an ECU for an Audi A4 with an immo3 system and ME7.5 ECU. Being relatively smart and very conservative I was not working on the one actually in the car at the time but a spare from eBay.
This is, no joke, what’s going to take most 20ish year old cars off the road. The EEPROM Bosch used in these ECU is long since obsolete and they’re at the age the electronics are aging out and hitting their end of life. When it goes the ECU is useless. But they’re only one supplier, Denso, Delphi, you name it, all the manufacturers use similar parts and conceptually similar system.
So the immobilizer randomly locking up is an obvious, immediate, dead car but even if you manage to program a replacement to match (e.g. mirror your VIN, lock code, etc to a junk yard one) or hack the ECU to turn off the immobilizer it’s only a matter of time before you get more errors in other circuits, which will manifest in nagging issues and eventually failures in running when it’s the fuel/spark map that gets bit flips and errors.
As time goes on it’ll be cars with absolutely zero sensors or computers and newer cars. Best case is people retrofit a supported ECU, maybe an aftermarket one, in place of those made starting in about 1995 to roughly about 15 years from current. Chip manufacturers and the whole supporting system in software, compilers, programmers and that like constant move on so you have to be more and more of a hacker to find new, old stock chips and old hardware to work on them. For example the way I work on ME7.5 ECUs from VW/Audi is using an EEPROM programmer I got in 2003 and using a dedicated Windows XP 32-bit PC that is only used for running long since gone software. If it dies I’m not sure what I’ll do.
Amen, Toby –
I have a classic car pushing 50 years old that is still fully operational. Grated, it is a garage queen now but that is beside the point because it is. fundamentally a mechanical thing with a few very basic electric elements. The entirety of the “fuel system” is a carburetor an a mechanical fuel pump. No sensors or electric connections. The carb is almost infinitely rebuildable and the pump costs $40 to replace and a monkey could do the job. I want to get an even simpler VW Beetle – like the one I used to have – for when this era of electronica comes crashing down.
My many year restoration (often stalled, never completely forgotten) is a 1980 Supra with a 5M-E inline 6 with a carb. You’re lucky to have a decent aftermarket. Old Toyotas have a much smaller enthusiast group so finding carb parts isn’t easy and is often things found by someone on a shelf in South America or Asia. You pay dearly for it and sometimes it’s a part that pops up once once in 5 years. You don’t think too long before hitting buy it now.
Ted, it could easily be worse. I have not one but TWO Alvis I’m on that long term path with. People don’t even know what an Alvis is, the saving grace is they were mostly hand made and fuel system is common old British SU. Of course the electrical is common old British Lucas, so there is that…
Roger that, Ted –
On the upside, once you have some spare carb parts, you can rebuild/maintain that carb for decades. I have a couple spare Quadrajets (and bags ofparts) for just that reason.
“Americans have never had this much car debt… experts warn it could start a 2008-like recession”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/article-15101503/america-car-debt-2008-great-recession.html
And Joseph Lucas, The Prince of Darkness, chortled from his grave.
Anyone up for a Lucas joke thread?
In replacing the screens Toyota will now add “Off, Dim, and Flicker” settings for headlights.
OK I’ll tee one up:
https://www.wildchildclassiccars.com/product-page/lucas-replacement-wiring-harness-smoke
Our family is a glutton for British rolling stock punishment, a ‘85 Defender 110 (son in law) and a ‘04 Discovery (daughter). Glad the son in law can spin a wrench, he’s becoming an expert on Land Rovers by necessity.
We bought a 2021 Toyota Sequioa (which I really like) last of the V8’s, in 2023 off a Toyota dealership. We’re in the closing room and their manager asks if I want to buy the extended warranty for $3K. I said no…your standard warranty will suffice being a Toyota. He agreed, engine, transmission, good for a long time. Then he said the computer screen runs about $6K and is going up to replace, that is what the warranty is for. Sign me up.
“ Then he said the computer screen runs about $6K and is going up to replace “
Yep, about 8 years ago the neighbors Tacoma nav unit went out, 2 weeks left on the warranty. About $4500 all in but warranted. She was keeping the truck so immediately signed up for an extended warranty. Also who has the talent and patience to do this work properly – dash and related trim intact no scratches or rattles?
Had the two year brake & clutch fluid flush done at the Harley dealer this week, a BOBHICA (Bend Over Biker Here It Comes Again) activity. Just shy of $400, and if neglected the antilock module can corrode into a “no brakes” failure mode. DIY? Well, if you own a Harley dealer so you have access to the proprietary computer required to activate the module sure! Glad they didn’t charge extra for the brake fluid remnants somewhat diluted with cleaner, that dripped out of the handlebar control housings on the way home. The old guy retired, a true professional – he did this the last time no spills, no mess left behind.
Hello, Hans, yes, I learned about this $6,000 price tag for the touch screen in my own Toyota a few weeks ago, as well. Thankfully for my model, the touch screen only controls the media (music) portion. The heater controls are still somewhat analogue and are separate, located under the touch screen with its own knobs, and are not connected to the touch screen. So if the stupid screen goes dark (or rogue) I can still heat my vehicle this Winter. No small thing when -20 below arrives, as that can pretty well brick a vehicle up here if there is no cabin heat. Like Zane, I hate these touch screens. There was nothing wrong with the knobs and such that I have in my older vehicle. Why these moron companies fix what is not broken is beyond me.
The somebitch that invented the God forsaken touch screen should have have been hung and shot a long time ago. I loathe the fucking things.
Are you a card-carrying SRA member, comrade?
‘A 10,000 member-strong group called the Socialist Rifle Association has been conducting weapons training for transgender and Marxist-Leninist extremists. Its members have been linked to at least four major crimes, including the firebombing of Tesla dealerships, a Daily Wire investigation found.
‘Members stock up on assault rifles and tactical gear like gas masks, and receive membership cards bearing an image of Karl Marx and the quote, “Any attempt to disarm workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.”
‘Videos show them preparing for engagements that look more like war than self-defense, running through the woods and hitting long-range targets. A common logo is the transgender flag with an assault rifle and the phrase, “defend equality.”’
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/planning-war-against-fascists-socialist-rifle-association-boasts-10000-members
You can see it coming from a mile away: the 2028 presidential contest will feature a communist Democrat (nominally but not really anti-zionist) running against a dual-loyalty, full-on zionist Republican who reports to Tel Aviv just as Trump does (his minder Satanyahu is paying a visit next week to deliver fresh marching orders).
Make no mistake: both legacy parties are strident advocates of America Last. Their entire leadership should face arrest and drumhead courts martial.
https://uploads4.wikiart.org/00137/images/john-pettie/the-drumhead-court-martial-1856.jpg!Large.jpg
Because of the plastic, overweight/small engine, guaranteed to break before the last payment, expensive crap being built; I have been seeing a lot of 20+ year old autos being repaired and put back on the road in my area. The auto companies are in between a rock and a hard place.
The CEO’s got greedy and prostituted themselves out to the government and may well end up going bankrupt. GM’s Roger Smith and Henry Ford are rolling in their graves now.
After my last new vehicle, a 2024 F Series, burned to the ground, my wife and I gave up on new cars. We fall into your observations; hers a 21 yr old Mercury and mine a 34 yr old Super Duty. Since older vehicles do indeed break more often than new ones, we keep a 33 yr old Volvo as a backup.
We have found that operating, insuring and maintaining 3 older vehicles costs nearly the same as payments, insurance and maint on a single new one.
Funny: “Since older vehicles do indeed break more often than new ones, we keep a 33 yr old Volvo as a backup.”
My buddy’s backup for his ‘79 Volvo was my ‘79 Pontiac. 6AM workday phone call “Volvo won’t start again, need a ride to work!” Thankfully he was on the route in for me.
‘Most affected will be Toyota — as these recalls are beginning to mar Toyota’s rep for being the reliable brand.’ — eric
Indeed. A 28-year-old Toyota is my daily driver. Do I have any desire to replace it with a new Toyota festooned with electronic gimcrackery that needs ‘software updates’ to function? Hell frickin’ no.
Reluctantly, I’m revising my assessment as new data comes in: Toyota WAS a highly reliable brand, until about a decade ago when it went over to the digital dark side. Now Toyota just makes planned-obsolescent, p.o.s. vehicles like everyone else’s.
Maybe I’m getting old, but why did they need to tinker with designs that worked just fine?
It wasn’t broke, so why are they trying to fix it?
I have the same disappointing realization that brands that WERE good, might no longer be so.
Keeping older, reliable vehicles may be the best option we have if you don’t want to be stuck in your driveway with a new computer car that won’t work.
I have two older Toyota trucks, one is a 1984 and the other a 2006. The Achilles heel is parts. Toyota offers nothing really anymore for a pre-1995 truck and the aftermarket for anything older than 2005 is mostly cheap rather than good. You can find some decent quality but it’s a lot of work. I just had to buy a fuel pump for my older truck. Even buying the best NAPA got Chinese junk that started leaking in 6 months. I found a new, old stock Japanese one for $100 on eBay and I was lucky to find that. There’s a guy in California of all place that can rebuild old fuel pumps, Fred Ballard. But this is the collectible angle that all the restoration people use, you know for old 50s Buicks and Corvettes. I imagine not cheap and he might only do specific fuel pumps.
Hi Jim.
My winter beast is a 24 year old Camry. Runs great except for a bad ABS sensor that I’ll probably fix before the snow flies. As for the new Toyota’s I have no interest in an over complicated nanny wagon…