Imagine if you were pretty much obliged to buy a cane or a walker in order to be allowed to walk in public. Never mind you don’t need a cane or a walker to assist you walking. Well, this is basically the situation with regard to new vehicles. You are able to drive – the state affirms this, having issued you a license to drive that at least nominally is only issued to people who have established a basic minimum level of competence to drive – yet the vehicle is layered with what is styled “driver assistance technology.”
This implies you need it. Which implies you’re actually not competent to drive unassisted. So why the bother over licensing drivers? (Well, we know why. The driver’s license is really just an ID – and the state very much wants you to have to carry ID around – and show it. It establishes who’s boss – and who isn’t.)
These “technologies” are not like seat belts or air bags that are purely impact-force mitigation systems that are designed to reduce the severity of injury (as well as the chance you’ll be killed) in the event of a crash. You can argue with some force that it is none of the government’s legitimate business to effectively compel people to purchase air bags or seat belts – for basically the same reason that it’s none of the government’s legitimate business whether we eat our veggies. I think that because this argument wasn’t made – not effectively, at any rate – we now have “driver assistance technology” in our cars. Because the underlying idea that it is the government’s legitimate business to “keep us safe” (not from government’s depredations, of course) underlies all of this stuff.
If you are not competent to decide whether to wear a seatbelt – and especially if you decide not to wear one – then obviously you are someone who is in need of the kind of “assistance” government provides, which is always as compulsory as it is cloying. That is why in just a few months from now – as the 2027 model year begins – every new vehicle will be required to have an additional layer of “assistance technology,” in the form of what’s styled “distracted/drowsy driver” monitoring systems. The requirement was passed into law about five years ago and now – like a septic tank that’s gone overfull – the shit is percolating upward.
The vehicle manufacturers have been quietly installing the eye-movement monitoring systems that are the key element of this new “technology” for several years now. They have been doing this in anticipation of the requirement as well as to get people used to it a little at a time rather than all of a sudden. This is the same method that was used to get people used to earlier forms of “assistance technology” such as the obnoxious Lane Keep Assist system that jerks the steering wheel when the “technology” thinks you need “assistance” keeping the car in its travel lane. And Brake Assist – which slams on the brakes when the “technology” thinks you haven’t noticed the car ahead of you is slowing and you haven’t braked soon enough or hard enough for the “technology’s” liking.
There is also the “technology” many new vehicles have that prevents you from backing up with the driver’s door open (which you might want to do to see what’s behind you or how close you’re getting to the curb using your own eyes rather than relying on camera eyes). The “technology” will “assist” you by putting the transmission in Park.
All of this goes back decades – in terms of the gradual, piece-by-piece pushing of “technology” on people by making it impossible to avoid it, except by avoiding new vehicles. Do you remember when the earliest forms of “assistance” began appearing way back in the ’80s? First there was anti-lock brakes; they went from being available in some vehicles to de facto standard in all vehicles. This probably seemed ok to most people but when you think about it, the underlying assumption is that the possibility of a skid resulting from brake lock arising from a driver not being skilled/experienced enough to know how to avoid locking up the brakes and thereby avoiding the skid had to be eliminated by presuming every driver needed assistance to avoid such skids.
Then came traction/stability control “technology.” Both predicated on the same assumptions and accepted as such by most people. Having accepted the principle – far more important that the particular – it became inevitable we’d end up with “technology” that literally watches us at all times and corrects us at all times. We’re now just a few months away from that being not just standard but formally required.
It’s actually remarkable that people who can walk unaided aren’t also required to buy canes and walkers. After all, there are people who need “assistance” with walking. Just as there are people who need “assistance” with driving. Why not just assume everyone needs “assistance” – in all things?
We’d all be so much safer, then.
. . .
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Hey Eric, It’s happening again. Can’t even get to your home page. When I Goggle you, all that shows up normal, but a white page comes up wanting to verify I’m human, then it takes me to a blank Eric page. Very frustrating.
Don’t know if it’s me or your site or goggle.
Thanks, Elaine – and everyone – we’ve got a problem that’s being worked on (possible hack). May have to reboot the site; apologies to all for the hassle, Hopefully we’ll have this fixed soon!
Yay, it’s fixed. Thanks.
You bet, Elaine!
Apologies, everyone. Yesterday was a debacle. Took a lot of work to get the glitch (hack) fixed.
“The driver’s license is really just an ID — and the State very much wants you to carry an ID around — and show it. This establishes who’s boss — and who isn’t.”
About 21 years ago I had some little cards printed up. I still have one of them. It reads:
David H. Hawley, B.A.
American
Born In the USA
Scholar and Philosopher of Everything
All Around Good Guy
In the upper left and right corners are two obsolete phone numbers. A somewhat more recent number is handwritten just above my name.
I wonder what would happen if the next time some cops demands his idee fixe I present him or her with this?
Perhaps accompanied by saying, “Please allow me to introduce myself, I’m a … rather well-known in these parts.
I’m quite broad-minded about who I’ll speak to., as long as the questions aren’t too personal. Now, if you should ever want to call me, don’t use either of those two numbers. Those are the old numbers. This is the new number.
Where am I coming from,? Well, I was born in Lexington, if that’s what you mean, though I grew up in Mayfield. Or do you mean where I’m coming from as in , what is my general mindset or outlook on life? That could take some time to explain.”
I suppose I’d promptly get Tased, or pepper sprayed, or clubbed with one of those telescoping metal truncheons they all have now, despite my advanced age and serious heart condition (which I would loudly announce having).
Oh man, David. We, us, are ‘Obsolete Men’. The fuckers, they don’t do so well with us telling them, BUT it seems like, it. just. doesn’t. matter.
They just want everyone to be obeyers. The young-uns these days seem to be A-ok with that.
….Yah, yer gonna get cuffed/tazed.
If only, it made a difference.
I make you right, as my Australian friends used to say.
https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/200256178/s02-e29-the-obsolete-man
Yah, that’s the one. At the 00:41 mark, oh boy is that spookyiest of all, imho. The Obeyers.
Obviously, they don’t fancy carburetors or fun times. And, all that which entails.
FunSuckers.
Every Monster of mankind has one Iron rule, “Logic is an enemy, and truth is a menace”
“A Citizen of The State that will soon have to be eliminated. Because, he’s built out of flesh. And, because he has a mind. …”
Idiocracy, is the future then?
Turtles, all the way down?
I wonder what a car would cost today if it did not have all of the technology applied to it. Keep things like clever combustion chamber design, maybe fuel injection, things that are cost-effective for improving efficiency, but get rid of the rest (air bags, traction control, ADAS in general). I’d wager we could easily have a sub $10,000 vehicle like the mid-80’s Japanese econoboxes.
As an example, I had a 1986 Mazda 323, which cost about $8k new and turned in mid-to-upper 50’s mpg on the highway. It still had the stupid auto-seatbelt, but not much else. I think it was under 2,000 lbs. I could physically lift a rear wheel/corner off the ground at the rear bumper (I was in my 20’s).
My parents drove mid-60’s VW Beetles in the 60’s and 70’s. One was my first car. They were about the most deadly things ever devised if you crashed one, yet somehow, none of us died a firey, or crushed, death in one. Human stupidity expands to fill any new safety “advantage” provided by technology.
All the extra tech in the car makes is cost more up front and makes the car depreciate faster with time. The flat screen goes out and you want to sell it, or you got a Prius with a 10 year old battery.
Toyota with 1.5 liter/5 spd is worth something used.
Toyota Prius with 1.5 liter with questionable battery, what’s it worth?
How are you saving money with the Prius if it cost 10K more upfront, depreciates faster, has a undetermined future date which it goes dead and costs 4K to fix? And it could leave you stranded – people have told me their horror stories. Screen went blank, car died right then and there, had to get it towed, missed their doctor’s appointment.
I do not want my car to go dead when I am on my summer road trip, I have taken off work, and only have so many days to enjoy myself before I am back to the grind.
What I want is a car that gets super fuel economy, is ultra simple, easy to fix, doesn’t cost much to buy new or used, and is from a manufacturer with is known for reliability like Honda or Toyota.
I was curious as to how much these touch screens cost, Yukon. So about a year ago I went to the dealership to inquire. I figured depending on the price, it would have been prudent to buy another one, so I would have it on hand years down the road, when the other one does crap out. Holy crow, $5,000 bucks for that touch screen system. Thank God that the heater is separate from the Info-tainment system. If it goes out, I can still use the heater in the Winter.
You had me at, “I wonder what a car would cost today if it did not have all of the technology applied to it.”
You lost me at, “VW Beetles in the 60’s and 70’s. One was my first car. They were about the most deadly things ever devised if you crashed one,…”
Yeesh, they weren’t rattle snake neckties.
As you note, “none of us died a firey, or crushed, death in one.”.
People die if they drink too much water.
These “safety systems” are going to kill people. Probably lots of them, It’s just a matter of time.
Rental car decided to stop working because it “couldn’t see the driver.”
https://nitter.poast.org/WallStreetApes/status/2051079891316248860
Do read some of the comments there though…
“She should buy a Tesla and just use the FSD!”
That would be the ‘full self-driving system’ which is not ‘self-driving’, has repeatedly been showed to be dangerous, in a device that reports to the mother ship everything inside and around itself, and that will brick should it detect any ‘unauthorized modifications’ to itself.
Clearly a huge improvement on a car that will just stop if it can’t ‘detect’ your eyes.
And these are the people that vote.
I had to rent a car this past winter as my car was getting repaired after someone rear ended me at a red light. I was driving to work and was on a merge lane. I pressed the gas pedal down and nothing! The pedal simply stopped working. I drove in creep mode the rest of the way and was thankful I was only a few miles away. Traded the damned thing in for something else. Like this lady, I did not want to get killed over a saaaafety feature
Drive by wire? “I pressed the gas pedal down and nothing! The pedal simply stopped working.”
Sensor failure at the foot pedal?
That crap sheet wouldn’t happen in an old-school durable vehicle.
The more and more I read about newer vehicles, the less I find them worthwhile or reliable.
Modern ‘technology’ is an epic failure.
Here’s something to test….which glasses defeat the eye tracking system. Mirrored? Polarized? The Macho Man Randy Savage kind with the plastic bars and no lens at all?
Hi Anchar,
Electrical tape is the ticket. Until the system disables the vehicle because you “blinded” the “technology.”
They will probably start hiding the camera in a screen like they do with some cell phones and smart TVs once a lot of people use tape. Plus at least for me, the camera will be in a rental and I’ll have to find it every time. I cant imagine it will always show up in the same spot on the dash, but you would be the one to know.
Just wait until the various self centered aggressive drivers in traffic figure out how to exploit these automatic “features” in other people’s cars to get ahead a few car lengths.
Don’t get me started on the BMV. It isn’t complicated, but I don’t get mail (go paperless and save!!!) and I don’t have a printer. In order to prove my new address, I need two pieces of US mail from utilities, work, bank, etc to prove it. Phone apps don’t cut it. Well, sh!t. Wait… why do I need to bring my SS card AND birth cert to prove I’m a US citizen? Doesn’t my CURRENT and VALID driver’s license already prove this, as I had to prove myself with those docs to GET IT in the first place?
I’m not going to a homeless shelt…I mean library to pay for some prints and I know no one who has a printer lol. F*ck it. I’ll just ride dirty until the system collapses.
And never mind why I have to register my 2002 Camry to the State anyway… too many sackless ‘men’ in this country.
Lord Spamberger is considering taxing gym memberships now. I thought GovCo wanted healthy slaves?
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/moderate-democrat-abigail-spanberger-considers-tax-gym-memberships-streaming-services-and
Antilock Brakes are great. They eliminate the problem of Brake Equalization Front to Rear and Side to Side when fitting larger Brakes. Fitting 280mm Front Discs and replacing the Drums with Rear Discs on my ’82 Jetta took a lot more work than on my A1 Audi.
Psft, Antilock Brakes suck.
It’s a Big Plus when that light on the dashboard is saying it’s out.
Let it be.
The Beatles – Let It Be (Official Video)
https://ok.ru/video/7239393806878
[Yah, I know, Travistock. stil..]
Eric,
This is just the next incremental step in the long term plan for TPTB.
In our lifetime we will see the screens from 1984 installed in our houses for monitoring by the .gov via some sort of AI.
We are all tax cattle. They have been overtly culling the herd of the poor performers / aggressive cattle for many years. WW1 & WW11 destroyed the white Europeans particularly the French, German and English; MAID in Canada and other similar programs are now making a significant impact; abortion on demand has precipitated a population decline in the US that may never recover; and one of the bigger ones is the Covid-19 bioweapon which may be the tipping point for the ability to recover worldwide.
Anon
It’s for the children, dontcha know?
PS: if they really wanted to make an impact on safety, make it impossible to use a cell phone while the vehicle is in motion. This alone would make most of the new requirements unnecessary.
“In our lifetime we will see the screens from 1984 installed in our houses for monitoring by the .gov via some sort of AI.”
Uh… hello smart phones, TVs, Echo, and now cars and etc. The tech is there. If the gubbermint wants to access it, I’m quite sure these companies would be more than happy to supply it. You know full well they can record voices and video when they’re ‘off’, and they probably are programmed already to hear ‘trigger words’ other than “Hey Alexa”…
Hi Andrew – I am well aware of the spy devices embedded in various devices. Those are somewhat under our control.
I was referring to a future that mandates your enthusiastic participation in the daily “2 Minute Hate” in front of the screen nationwide with the other citizens. Think North Korea on steroids, but with an AI monitoring your participation for suitable amounts of fervor.
Anon
DUMB PHONES ROCK! RE: RE: “In our lifetime we will see the screens from 1984 installed in our houses for monitoring by the .gov via some sort of AI.”
Yah, NOT happening here. NOT EVER.
I hope you do the same,
There’s no TVs, Echo, and now cars and etc here doing that sheet.
Bend the knee for convenience sake if you want, and may posterity ever forget you ever lived.
Is that your legacy? If so, Psft.
I was curious how many of the insufferable “assists” that we have now are mandated, versus discretionary, so I asked AI to make me a compact list of which are mandated and which are discretionary, here it is, hope it comes through ok.
2007,TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring),FMVSS 138 (direct)
2011/2012,ESC (Electronic Stability Control),FMVSS 126 (direct, full by Sep 2011)
2012,ABS (Anti-Lock Braking, tied to ESC),FMVSS 105/126 (direct)
2018,Rearview/Backup Camera,FMVSS 111 (direct, May 2018)
2026,Enhanced Front Seat Belt Reminders,FMVSS 208 update (Sep 2026)
2027,Enhanced Rear Seat Belt Reminders,FMVSS 208 update (Sep 2027)
2027+,Impaired Driving Prevention (DMS + passive BAC),Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (IIJA Sec 24220) → upcoming FMVSS (~2027)
2029,AEB (incl. FCW + PAEB),FMVSS 127 (direct, Sep 2029)
~2025+,Rear Occupant Alert (hot car/child reminder),IIJA / Hot Cars Act (statutory, delayed rulemaking; widespread voluntary)
2026+,Blind Spot Warning + Lane Keeping Assist,NCAP ratings (soft/de facto)
None,Driver Eye-Tracking Nags (beyond min DMS),Manufacturer discretionary (or L2 enablement)
None,Speed Limit Assist/Intelligent Speed,Not mandated (Europe has it)
None,Door-open auto-shift to Park,Not mandated (discretionary)
None,Rear Cross-Traffic Braking,Not mandated (discretionary/NCAP incentive)
Now, what this doesn’t consider is that some of those mandates are a result of other mandates; rear view cameras, for example, became mandatory due to visibility in cars getting worse due to crash standards.
Backup cam is good. I love mine. Most of the rest though arent even viable options in any real market. Its passed the point where I put anyone dumb enuf to do debt for such in the traitor box with bbs bitch.
How did women ever drive before backup cameras?
This explains why my old, WRS (a 2007) does not have the tire nanny, and so much other crap I did not want, need, or ask for. Yeah, older vehicles are looking better and better with the rate Big Brother wants to “keep us safe”. Huh, and who is going to “keep us safe” from them?
Who is watching the watchers? Probably the same ones watching porn at their govco jobs.
…and if we are lucky, they won’t be screwing around with little kids.
None, no one, very few notice this astute observation, “visibility in cars getting worse”.
All that sheet ‘they’ add to vehicles, yet, you can’t see out of them!
It’s all worthless, detrimental, impoverishment b.s..
This is: Socialism!?
A.k.a. captured capitalist.
A bunch of ‘laws’ forced on us by a special class of parasitic grifters. Ancient and enfeebled, most of them probably couldn’t even start a car, let alone drive one. The majority of these clowns have been coddled by car services and chauffeurs for decades now. Pure projection on a deeply sociopathic level. Time to put an end to clown/gressional privilege. May they all rest in feces.
They’ll have to pry my cold dead hands from my Formula steering wheel and 4 speed shifter.
I won’t be here for too much longer, but while I’m here I’m doing what I want. Screw them.
Gripping the wheel his knuckles went white with desire
The wheels of his Firebird exploding on the highway like a slug from a .45
True Death: 450 Horsepower of maximum performance piercing the night
This is Black Sunshine
– White Zombie
I Very much like your line, “They’ll have to pry my cold dead hands from my Formula steering wheel and 4 speed shifter.”
While I know some of my fellow Gen-Xers might like your choice of music, I can’t relate. At all.
‘Black Sunshine by White Zombie – Full Band FC #2125’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Fqjod2eEs
Off the top of my head I cannot think of an 80’s equivalent song, there’s this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybcxIpb-R_0
‘Mötley Crüe – Kickstart My Heart (Official Video)’
Once you get past the glam-crap opening, The realism of the video, seems to be above and beyond the techno-fakery of Black Sunshine,… it’s, Living on the Edge in real life.
I think, perhaps, you can relate well?
THAT, is what is missing from much of America today.
Is the pussification of the nation, complete? I.D.K.. Or, almost?
AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking) becomes mandatory on September 1, 2029. I asked Google AI whether these systems are proprietary. Here’s its answer:
‘The underlying hardware and software are typically sourced from a small group of Tier 1 global suppliers.
‘Universal Suppliers: Major electronics firms like Robert Bosch, Continental, Denso, ZF Friedrichshafen, and Aptiv supply the sensors (radar, cameras, lidar) and control units used by multiple car brands.
‘Vision Processing: A large portion of the market relies on Mobileye (an Intel subsidiary) for the “eye” of the system—the specialized chips and software that identify obstacles. [Trump invested $8.9 billion for a 10% stake in Intel.]
‘Although the core technology is shared, each automaker “tunes” the system to their specific vehicles:
‘Algorithm Fine-Tuning: Manufacturers adjust up to 30 different software “knobs”—such as braking intensity and alert timing—to account for a vehicle’s specific weight, tires, and center of gravity.
‘Integration: The proprietary aspect is how the AEB system communicates with the car’s existing braking and steering systems to ensure a smooth, safe stop.
‘Performance Variation: Because of these different calibrations, two cars using the same Bosch radar might perform differently in safety tests.’
____________
Obviously, these Tier 1 suppliers are integrating patented technology into AEB. Even individual auto makers’ setting of the software ‘knobs’ is going to be non-public.
I object like hell to being subjected to proprietary ‘black box’ systems, such as the MCAS system in Boeing’s 737 MAX which killed 346 people in two crashes. Prepare for the unintended consequences of AEB, such as new vehicles suddenly slamming on the brakes because a squirrel ran across the road.
ME NO LIKE!!
I can’t wait to see the lawsuits arising when AEB causes a car to stop mid highway and get rear ended by a semi.
Or when the vehicle brakes suddenly, and whoops, the roads were icy and snowy, and you just caused an accident, ran off the road, or worse! Hey, it was for your saaafety. It MUST be your fault you ended up dead! Such would be the line of thinking for such evil bastards who think this sh** is great.
Robot says, “While you can often turn off AEB temporarily, a permanent solution is not universally available and depends on your vehicle’s make and model.”
…For now?
Get to work guys. Crack that shitty code.
For every lock, it can be picked.
Like you Eric, I also wonder at what point people will just refuse to buy the new cars with this crap in them but I suspect the vast majority of people will just grumble and accept it.
Perhaps as the economy worsens things might change.
Will people who just grumble and accept this crap in new cars be the same people who just grumbled & accepted being ordered to wear face diapers everywhere during the COVID nonsense? It’s astounding there are STILL people who belieeeeeeeeeeve the draconian diktats issued just a few years ago were about “Protecting Public Health” instead of what the COVID response was REALLY ABOUT, which was governments being drunk with power and wealth being transferred from small businesses & the middle class to large corporations and the super wealthy.
I got a buddy that when his new car came with ASS complained about it, when I pointed out that there’s a way to disable it his only comment was that was too much work to do.
OMG, Landru, the Lazy Boy Club. “It’s too much trouble!” …”I have to exert myself!”
Psft.
I think, of all the laziness in the world, this is the worst kind.
Is there a word for it?
Shirking?
Willful blindness?
Non-thinking?
Or, some combination of the above? I.D.K..
No one wants to hear that they’re a bad driver, it hurts sales. So instead of proper testing and certification, everyone is treated like an imbecile. Equal under the laws of physics, eh?
As far as driving while drowsy, I’ll admit I’ve done it. And made it home to drive another day. But I also have no qualms about pulling off at an interchange or gas station to take a nap. There have been a few sketchy spots where I decided to motor on just because, and that’s usually when I outdrive my alertness. If they really want to reduce drowsy driving how about making sure that rest stops are safe (or at least show that there’s some effort, like making sure the lights work and that the toilets are clean and working).
>As far as driving while drowsy, I’ll admit I’ve done it
Ever fallen asleep at the wheel? I have, while driving a rented box truck (Ryder, or Penske, can’t remember which), and towing a 4WD pickup. Happened on a 2 lane stretch of US 66 in the Mohave, in 1975, when I was 26.
The GAS (Gravel Assist System, a.k.a. right shoulder of highway) woke me up, at which point I laid it down and napped for ~30 minutes. Had I drifted left, into opposing traffic, instead of right, likely the CARS (Collision Activated Reincarnation System) would have taken over, and I would not be writing this.
A buddy and I were driving late one night. Hadn’t realized I fell asleep until I was roused awake by the sound of snapping sign posts and found I was looking straight at a “45 MPH” sign coming over the hood of the track towards the passenger side of the windshield. Luckily it bounced up and over rather than going through. My buddy’s eyes were nearly as wide open as mine were at the point and neither of us felt the least bit drowsy the rest of the drive back to the apartment.
HA! Excellent living tale, Anon.
I wonder, does sticking your head out the window to keep awake after a 14 hr. shift count as distracted driving?
Not long ago, it was “get off my lawn!!” With an M1.
Soon it’ll be “get outta my JohnnyCab!!”, while waving a walker….just the way (((they))) want it!
Oy Vey!
I’m gonna need to see you post that #Blue Square to end the ‘hate’, you antiseptic nazi scumbag.
I have no idea what, “that #Blue Square to end the ‘hate’,” means.
Nor what, an antiseptic nazi is.
Is Lysole involved? That sheet is nasty.
Hi Eric, et al,
The real goal is to coerce total dependence on the government….the luxury of driving will only be allowed to the politically connected, or so they think…..market will correct maybe but not in our lifetimes.
Hi Giuseppe,
If government gets its way, not only will the luxury of driving only be allowed to the politically connected, it will also only be allowed for uber wealthy elitists who think they’re better than the masses. One sinister goal from the uber wealthy elite and many governments is private transportation for THEM, but public transportation (busses) for the masses, which they often frame as “Stopping cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimate change” or “Promoting transportation equity”.
Think about how this works out: “If government gets its way, not only will the luxury of driving only be allowed to the politically connected, it will also only be allowed for uber wealthy elitists who think they’re better than the masses.”
That’s a mass unemployment, let-them-eat-cake kind of situation.
From, France. …How’d that end?
Will Robot Cop stop that? …Tune in Next Week?
Pardon me, I meant to write, “Robo-Cop”.
‘Robocop (1987) | Official Trailer | MGM Studios’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqvRDhW-XVA
Yep. Complete dependence on government. Bicycling has been under attack with all the unsafe and dangerous bicycle infrastructure that can only be used safely at just above a walking pace. I’ve come to the conclusion it is to limit practical bicycling range. Bicycling is too much freedom for the control freaks to allow.
You’ll perhaps have to expand in further comments in future threads, I am unaware of this Bicycling crack-down/crazyness of which you speak.
Do you mean, every ‘bike path’ is also a blissfully-clueless-walking-slowly-with-a-baby-strolller or an unattended to dog on a long leash path? That sorta thing?
It’s either a ‘bike path’ or a ‘walking path’, not both?
In the big city I used to live in they were painting lines every which way and loose for bike lanes in the middle of streets, it seemed like a bad idea to me, I don’t know how that worked out.
Thank goodness I don’t live in The City anymore.