The Case Against Driver’s Licenses

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That little plastic laminated card you’ve got in your wallet or purse – you know, the state’s permission slip for operating a motor vehicle? Ever stop to reflect how peripheral the driving part of a driver’s license is?

Because, of course, a driver’s license is in fact our national ID card.

It’s impossible to function in modern society without this national ID card – even if you never get behind the wheel of an automobile. You can’t open a bank account, cash a check, visit the doctor, vote, board an airplane or even get a job without one.

Or at least, it is very difficult to do these things without one.

And none of these things, as such, have anything to do with the operation of a motor vehicle.

If it were merely a driver’s license, the main issue would be whether we’re sufficiently competent to get behind the wheel. There would be a meaningful test of one’s ability to handle a car. An actual road test on an actual road, in traffic – not the perfunctory drive around the cones in the DMV parking lot (and even that is only required of new/first-time applicants in most states) preceded by a sixth-grade-level written (well, touch-screen video) test of one’s knowledge of  The Law.

A medium-smart baboon could pass this test with a little coaching. Few ever fail it – baboons or otherwise. Most of us snicker at the absurdity of it. But it is only absurd from the perspective that assumes they are testing our ability to drive.

Rather, the object of the exercise is ascertaining our identity – in order that we may be kept track of via the interlocking system of data acquisition, indexing, recording and cross-referencing that is the Matrix of modern society.

It is about information – and control.

If it were not, “driver’s licenses” would not be linked to one’s Social Security number – the government-issued ear tag every calf  (oops, citizen) is issued at birth. The SS number, in turn, is the number the government uses to make sure you pay your taxes, to keep track of where you work (and how much you earn), where you bank (and how much you have in the bank), where you live, whom you marry, whether you have children (each of them to be issued their own ear tag in turn) and so on – all of which, again, have nothing to do with your competence as a driver.

But just try to get a “driver’s license” without presenting your Social Security card. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Red Flags will be raised.

Even if you have an SS number, they will also likely want your birth certificate, a document (also with your SS number) from your bank, or your mortgage holder, or something along those lines. Then, having presented these documents, they will obtain “biometric” information from you – a fingerprint in some cases or merely a special photo that maps your face so that the Panopticon (those cameras that are increasingly everywhere) can register your presence and record your presence wherever you happen to be – which most of the time, of course, will be somewhere that’s not in your car.

I go too far?

Then consider the fact that even non-drivers must obtain what amounts to the same national ID card in order to be able to do the things mentioned up above. They must show up at the Department of Motor Vehicles and provide the same items – SS number and other documents confirming that number. They will then be biometrically cataloged, just like the other cows (er, “drivers”).

No one escapes the national ID card unless they are “off the grid” – a person who exists outside the system, as a de facto (if not de jure) outlaw.

Too far again, you say?

Then try to cross the border, or board an airplane without your national ID card – or (lately) even attend a professional football game.

Your ID will be demanded.

Even a person merely walking down the street, having committed no crime, can be compelled to produce his ID upon demand. And if that person lacks an ID, that person will very likely be arrested on the spot and held until his identity is ascertained.

Remember the opening scene in the original Rambo?  It all begins when Stallone’s character is accosted by a bully cop who demands to see his ID. That was 1982 – when for the most part only “drifters” such as Rambo got racked up for not having ID. Today, we must all have our IDs. Or else.

This is the reality of 2012 Homeland America.

You must have permission to move. You certainly do not move freely.

Even if you are walking.

 Throw it in the Woods?


  1. Probably too late to mention this, but drivers licenses and license plates are nothing but slave badges. Smithsonian magazine did an article on slave badges and as you read it and see the pictures of the slave badge and how they functioned in the 1800’s you realize “hey those are just like license plates!” If one day everybody just took off their license plates threw them in the street and shot the first person who hassled them about it, that day we would all be free.

  2. Is being required to produce a government issued permission slip freedom?

    No. In many states throughout the U.S., without a government issued permission slip via a LIPPP document (License, ID, Passport, Permit or Papers), innocent American Citizens are required to get permission to vote, open a checking account, travel within our own country by plane, rent an apartment, buy a house, build a house, remodel a house, build a fence, cut down our own tree, rent a hotel room, enter a federal building, see a doctor, fill a prescription, buy cough & cold medicine, pick up certified mail at the post office, obtain a post office box, replace a lost driver’s license, drive through a suspicion less checkpoint when you’ve done nothing wrong, buy a car, register a car, use a credit card, buy or sell alcohol let alone simply enter a bar, saloon or nightclub, or feed homeless people. And you can be criminalized if you don’t notify the state (Department of Motor Vehicles) when you’ve moved your place of residence (sort of like being on a sex-offenders list). Government coercion is not freedom and neither is being required to ask for permission.

    We proclaim the efforts of our military defending freedom yet more and more laws are passed violating rights, liberty & freedom. What’s the point in defending freedom overseas when we willingly sacrifice it here at home? Freedom is quickly being outlawed and without realizing it many Americans believe less freedom is a good thing. Without privacy freedom cannot exist. Loss of privacy through government having access to our phone calls, bank transactions, internet searches, books we’ve checked out of the library, jobs we’ve had and places we’ve lived. Government tracking us via camera, cell phone & credit card transactions represents a daily deterioration of privacy. Less privacy means more government control.

    America no longer represents freedom, it represent government control of our lives. The more you rely on government for your safety & prosperity the less safe, prosperous a free you become. I would rather live in a high risk society wrapped in freedom than as a slave in complete safety & security.

    Joe Williams
    Atlanta, GA

    • You’re right Joe.

      America has become a “company town.” We can’t do much more than breath without obtaining permission first. And yet, Americans, generally, imagine themselves to be free.

      • This has been my argument for the last 6 months or so. That something like the 19th/early 20th century robber baron families that the left fears will take over if Ron Paul gets his way are the ones running everything now and using government to turn the USA if not the world into a giant company town.

        The political background I was exposed to growing up was the fight against the company town. Sadly some family members don’t see my liberatarianism as continuation of that fight.

      • This site is private property, so of course permission need be granted to write here. Usenet however requires no permission. It is an un-owned commons and thus has suffered because of that.

        Also no permission is required to start one’s own site to write on.

        • Just saying that it is unprofitable to rage against the machine. I’m 100% with Boothe, even if I did get YES BUTTED. I guess that’s why I’m an expat with an extra passport.

          • “Just saying that it is unprofitable to rage against the machine…”

            I hear you – but at some point, someone has to rage against the machine. I’m too ensconced to “light out for the territories,” so I stand my ground and do what I can, with what I have on hand.

            I agree that it’s likely to turn out badly for me – for most of us who have decided to take a stand. But I don’t see an alternative that’s better, or one I can live with.

          • Hey, I know you’re prepared. I also tend to think that you have a greater capacity to deal with “alternatives” than you give yourself credit for.
            As far as the raging goes, I promise you that the clovers will do that in spades when the tit is removed. What is the Occupy movement after all.
            Keep your head down.

      • Yes FS, that’s true, but this is a private site subject to the will of the sovereign that created it (i.e. Eric). You are also free not to write here. On the other hand you are not free to fail to submit a 1040 to the IRS (unless you’re destitute), function in society in any meaningful way without a Socialist Slave Number or travel the public roads in your private conveyance without state permission. And on and on and on as Joe pointed out above.

        Oh you can try exercising your sovereignty, but those periods of incarceration and court ordered appearances will cut into your life in a big way. Even if you ultimately prevail the next mouth breathing functionary to come along will drag you back into the ring for another round.

        I’ve reached the age where I pick my fights carefully; the government long ago stole too much of my time. Now I seek ways to quietly and privately outmaneuver the bureaucRats rather than confronting them head on too much anymore; all the while I get to watch their empire collapse around them. When one sends one’s military into “The Graveyard of Empires”……

      • Not sure what you mean here, Freedserf…

        You are quite free to submit whatever you like. However, as it is a privately owned site, the editor has every right to edit (or delete or block) submissions. This is not censorship or an abridgement of your freedoms. I am not obligated to provide anyone with a platform. You are free to create your own publication, and so on. It is only censorship when the government tells you what you (or I) may say, write or print. It is only an abridgement of your liberty when the government denies you the right to create a publication, and so on.

        • I truly appreciate the opportunity to participate in your forum. It was a comment on the topic of the DL. Really just a “permission card” as you expounded. I’m just saying that it seems to me that it is even more complicated.

          I agree with everything you said. It is just that your permission is not much different from the governments. They will also argue, as you have, that I can create my own roads to drive on if I don’t want to obtain their permission to use theirs.

          Don’t know the answer, but it is fun trying to figure out how to get there.

          • You’re welcome! We want all the intelligent posts we can get – even when they take issue with something I’ve written. So long as they’re intelligent – which of course excludes Clovers!

            I don’t agree that a privately owned web site (or magazine/newspaper) moderating comments (that is, editing them or, if need be, deleting them) is the same as government demanding we acquire its permission to do something. Reason? Government permission is universal. That is, if the government says you must have permission to drive (a driver’s license) it is applicable everywhere the government is sovereign. There are also legal consequences if you don’t obtain permission. In contrast, all I or any privately owned publication can do is deny you a platform here. You do not need permission from me to go out and start your own publication and I have no ability to impose consequences on you for so doing.

            That’s the nature of the difference!

  3. With the passage of the Real ID Act a few years ago the feds mandated that states standardize their driver’s licenses and IDs so that they would be more easily integrated into a national ID scheme.

    One way that a state could circumvent this is by making driver’s licenses optional. I could see this happening in a place like Montana pretty easily, but of course a host of troubles would need to be addressed. Without a government ID you’d be frozen out of the credit and banking system. And Montana would risk losing it’s federal highway dollars, if not getting invaded by the U.S. army.

    • Yup.

      On the other hand, people were quite able to transact business without government IDs within the not-too-distant past. The local bank knew who you were – and based the credit extended to you on that basis. A man’s reputation and his word were what mattered. I’m sympathetic to the Jeffersonian view (or rather, the view Jefferson probably would have had) that corporatism is the flip side of authoritarianism – and that the one cannot thrive without the other.)

      • I lived without a D/L or ID from 1978 to 1983. Even as a new resident in a small town I found it easy to get banks and supermarkets to cash checks issued by third parties and made out to me. I feel a sense of nostalgia for those days. It was a better life in many ways.

  4. Does anyone know what states are left that DON’T require fingerprints? Also, some of the states that don’t (not many I’m sure) would, I imagine, use facial recognition software. Are they looking for terrorists, criminals, or just someone that has a license in another name, in that state, as they claim?

  5. Before we get all biblical about driving and bringing down enormous brother for his transgressions, lets look at what the driver’s license is. A license is permission from some authority to do something that would other wise be illegal. So, is it illegal for us (the public) to travel, drive, drag race, meander or slalom the pretty orange cones down the center line of a public thoroughfare? No it’s not! because we have a right to the public utility of beat down paths connecting towns and waterways. That is not in dispute. So who does need permission to trespass on the public? Well that would be anyone not born with rights…. hmmm, like private corporations and such. In fact, the government’s infringement in our daily route of travel is such a travesty to our hard work and cost to maintain the road that we needed to identify any and all corporate vehicles and collect a yearly tax, per vehicle, and label the damn things so we can identify the clover conveyance instantly. (hourly employees move very slowly) This is a perfect system of non-rights bearing entities making up for the damage they do to OUR roads. That system is fair and equitable. The problem comes in that under threat of violence, car forfeiture and taser stings we are forced to go claim that we are government slugs and our personal car, minibike or billygoat IS being used in our official capacity as a government agent while in the performance of “official” business. Public servants are the lowest… every statute is written to direct their behavior, not yours. So as soon as you show that permission from the state to operate in that official capacity (if you so choose), Johnny law presumes that he has jurisdiction over you as a lowly public servant. Now every goofy seatbelt, child-restraint and no cellphone “law” ever written (intended for the dumbest of us) has full effect and enforceability on you. They are protecting the public from you with specific guidelines on how you are to behave in this capacity. It’s not the cops fault you wish to perpetrate a public street sweeper in your fast and furious primer-ed up 2000 honda civic. He’s perfectly fine seeing the big license on the back and holding you to government standards of behavior for their agents. You are the one who doesn’t know who you are or why you applied for the license… the dumb really should pay more in life. Check out Dean Clifford’s videos if you don’t understand the trust principles. Great series on youtube!

  6. It’s a long road
    When you’re on your own
    And it hurts when
    They tear your dreams apart
    And every new town
    Just seems to bring you down
    Trying to find peace of mind
    Can break your heart
    It’s a real war
    Right outside your front door I tell ya
    Out where they’ll kill ya
    You could use a friend
    Where the road is
    That’s the place for me
    Where I’m me in my own space
    Where I’m free that’s the place
    I wanna be
    ‘Cause the road is long yeah
    Each step is only the beginning
    No breaks just heartaches
    Oh man is anybody winning
    It’s a long road
    And it’s hard as hell
    Tell me what do you do
    To survive
    When they draw first blood
    That’s just the start of it
    Day and night you gotta fight
    To keep alive
    It’s a long road …

  7. For those Americans concerned about liberty versus tyranny — and that is certainly each of us posters here, I would recommend that each of us consider under what circumstance each of us will, or won’t, comply with authority.

    Because if we wait until the moment happens, and we then have to decide in an instant what to do or how to response, many of us might comply when we otherwise would not.

    Kind of like those people – myself included – who always come up with a great come-back at a later date after I’ve had time to think about the particular situation or communication. I wish I had come up with that great come-back at that moment, when its application would have been most profound or insulting.

    Personally, I don’t really care what our government imposes any more – as they are so far beyond their authority as given to them and restricted by the Constitution and our (former) Bill of Rights.

    And while I disagree with much of what our Supreme Court mandates as well, it does give me peace to know that even those addled Justices stated: “The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it. An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted. Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it…. A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one. An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law. Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the land, it is superseded thereby. No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.” – US Supreme Court: Sixteenth American Jurisprudence Second Edition, Section 177

    As our rights and liberty have been, and are being, sytematically and incrementally destroyed by our government, we have to be wise in our dealings with those at all levels of government and enforcement who would oppress us.

    I for one, have determined when I will resist, and when I will eat their shit – and so hopefully live to fight another day.

    • Don’t get all down about it, they win when you admit to being beaten. Think about it, the federal government was created figuratively and literally to be a corporation! An entity to accept the states’ liabilities. What states and localities don’t want to do or pay for… the fed has to. Welfare, roads, old age benefits, etc. The fact that they may have rosied up the history or the why and how the US came into being doesn’t change the demand for what the federal government really is. The states jumped on board with incorporating with it just like any partnership wants to do in business to protect their personal property from lawsuits to the business, so they incorporate. The fact that they are now acting precisely like the recipient of all the responsibilities (they now hold all the power) shouldn’t be surprising to anyone. If you are the sole wage earner in a house of 12, who makes the rules? You do. Take back your personal responsibility. It’s the stuff our shackles are made of. And yes any level of government employee is scum of the earth fodder. They have chosen to opt out of the free market and competition for life, mind you in one of the only places on the planet where you have a choice to participate in the contest of freedom.

  8. I only found out today about Target when my son was buying a video game, paying cash and the clerk would not sell it without scanning my son’s ID. I told my boy that if it was me I would have left the game there.

    Here is a little something from the Bible, Book of Revelations, Chapter 13.

    16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    The driver license crap we all are going through is a precurser to the ‘mark’.

    I encourage everyone to do some investigation. Everything happening now was foretold in the Bible, albeit generally and sometimes in difficult to understand language. Yes folks, it ain’t going to get any better, we can only prepare and be ready.

  9. Eric,
    As regards the “license” issue (aka..liberty) I submit the following..
    18USC 31,(quoting) “The term ‘motor vehicle’ means every description or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used for COMMERCIAL purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers and property, or property and cargo.”
    What does that have to do with the average person who just wants to ‘travel freely by the common means of the day’? (quoted from a court decision). So if you don’t use the highways for ‘commercial gain’ they have no authority to “license” or regulate it.
    “License” by the way is Webster’s defined as ‘permission granted by a competent authority to do that which would otherwise be illegal’.
    Who would agree that ‘they’ are competent? Power never guarantees competence.
    Without full disclosure of the terms of an agreement(i.e.”license”) the implied ‘contract’ to obey the restrictions imposed by the license are void on their face as constructive fraud is in play.
    Accepting a license is accepting the restrictions it imposes and subjects one to all the penalties they care to impose connected to its use.
    Yet we’ve all been conditioned from an early age to absolutely believe you can’t drive without a license. Something they tell us we ‘have to have’
    I’d agree with George Washington that “the only power government has is the threat of force” imposed on non-compliant individuals by a government that’s elected, on average, by less than 15% of the population.
    Gad, is this twisted! When does the parasite finally kill the host?

    • This – this nightmare that one enters any time the legal system comes into our lives – is not too different from the voicemail Hell one encounters when calling any “customer service” line. It has been expertly designed to get you to just go away, back down, comply, go along with the status quo, etc. It is done to discourage protest, fighting for one’s rights, fighting for what is right, or just plain speaking up. It is designed to be so Hellacious, so horrendous, so time consuming that we, the hapless customer, servant, civilian, will agree, submit, or say yes to just about anything to avoid it’s co$t and misery. We are royally effed.

      • Yes – and for most of us, this occurs at birth and is done by someone else for us “on our behalf,” long before we’re remotely capable of understanding, let alone consenting, to what is being done.

  10. When I got my DL in (what used to be) the great state of Texas I had to remove my glasses. It didn’t make sense at the time because I am never in public without them. I don’t like running into things. But now I understand. My face has been mapped. If I am ever in a picture of a crowd engaged in unapproved behavior they will know who I am.

    I recently re-read Orwell’s “1984” and began to make a list of modern day examples of his fictional scenarios. The project is becoming much larger than I anticipated. He was truly a prescient individual. I just wish his (our) story had a better ending.

    • I gave thought to growing a full ZZ Top beard, then stuffing my face with cotton, before I went to renew my license last year… I wish I had taken the time to do that.

      • I’m going to be doing some carpentry before my next “license” renewal. The kind of carpentry that involves getting a lot of urethane and acrylate (super) glue on your fingers…especially your thumb.

        Enjoy the thumbprint, DMV stasi. I have another finger for your enjoyment if you’d like to see it.

        Ah, yes. The great state of Texas. Proud of our frontier heritage–now just another administrative outpost of the Leviathan in DC.

        I think secession may be one of the peaceful ways out of the disaster Amerika has become.

  11. Scares me to death how many moronic people supply their name, home address, phone, email to RETAIL stores simply because ask for it. Like clockwork the idiot clerk will say something like “sure I’d be happy to search for that product in our system for you. Can I just get some information first?The system won’t let me proceed unless I have all this info.”
    And like the dumb dogs of Pavlov these wayward customers are conditioned to just go alone, believing this lie about the store’s all important “computer system” which can’t possibly operate without every known fact about you. So they just comply – and within earshot of other customers! Even worse, at some stores such as crappo furniture outlet Rooms To Go and the electronics chain Brandsmart, you cannot buy with cash or credit without a DL. They simply will not sell to you under any circumstance. Aside from the sickening intrusion, from a standpoint of just plain safety, what young lady in particular is stupid enough to give all this sensitive info to some mouth-breathing store clerk? Yes sir, here is my home address. Come by any time!
    At Target they now swipe your license for a beer or wine purchases, no matter your age. I am in my 50s and was asked for “i.d.” there recently. Never again. Absolutely appalling. What will it take for the idiot Sheep of this nation to wake the F up?

    • This annoys me, too.

      I know it’s not the clerk’s fault – they have to do what they’re told – but when they ask for my phone number, many of them seem personally offended when I tell them – politely – Sorry. I don’t give that out.

      They also seem off-put when you pay cash, especially for more expensive items.

      On of the things I don’t like about Sam’s is that even if you pay cash, they keep track of what you buy. You have to show ID to get in – and then again, to buy.

      Now, it’s obvious that if you’re inside the place, you’ve shown your Sam’s card and so they know you’re “in the club.” What possible reason can there be for making you show ID at the register, even when you are paying with cash, except to catalog your purchases?

    • The weirdest part of the ID at checkout thing is when I was under 21 I never got carded for buying beer. Now that I am 35 I get carded even for tobacco. It’s a conditioning thing and has nothing to do with age, or product purchase. We are being conditioned to “show our papers.” It’s that simple! Safety/random stops are part of the deal. As to your question “what will it take to wake up the idiots?” The answer: death.

      • The gov has ordered these massive corps to “get I’d” whenever they can. Every time the CVS clerk says “got your CVS card with you today?” – I simply very politely reply “no thank you” – as if I didn’t quite hear or grasp the question. I find this works when asked for my phone number as well. These clerks are typically harried and overwhelmed and in these instances seem relived that they have one less thing to do.
        But make no mistake, in general, this collection of data by these massive corporate retailers is as nefarious and as chilling as all the rest. It is my pleasure to buy as little as humanly possibly, to use cash as often as possible, and to patronize local farmers markets and small mom and pops at all costs.

      • Agree. I’m in my 40s – clearly, obviously of legal age to buy beer. I’ve been legal since 1984 (the law was 18 back then). Yet I still get carded. You know what I do? I tell the clerk – nicely: “I’m obviously old enough to buy beer. If you insist on carding me despite this, you can keep the beer. And also the rest of these groceries. ”

        So far, they’ve backed down.

  12. Eric I am a fairly new reader and greatly enjoy your insight. You have a way with putting things into words that I have long felt and thought that I simply could not put into exact words myself.

    But what’s with the term “clover”? I think I know what it refers to, but I’m curious how that title came into being?

    Keep up the good work!

    • Hi Jonathan – thanks!

      On Clover: It’s my term for the Little Authoritarians, the people out there who say “there ought to be a law,” who have fetish about controlling (usually, pre-emptively) other people’s lives and forcing them to live (and do) as they see fit, according to their arbitrary standards.

      If you check out the “Politics” section, you’ll find several articles that go into greater depth on this unpleasant subject.

      • Yeah, I think it’s just a little silly that everywhere you go everyone is asking for your name

        What’s up with that?

        I shoul be able to funtion in society without a legal name

        Furthermore, I noticed that YOUR WEBSTITE even asks for a name when replying to comments>>>>>????

  13. Justed wanted to add that in Florida DMV demands to see a utility bill with your name on it to be sure you are “resident” in addition to citizenship docs and SS card. No bill – no DL!
    How about being “carded” for purchasing alcohol for everybody under the age of 40??
    Back to driving though: license plates must be surrendered to DMV if you don’t have insurance on the vehicle while its garaged. And it won’t matter if the registration is paid in full for the year ahead.
    Not to mention that one would get two points on driver license if they get cited for say, throwing a bottle into the ditch, not that I would do it, but it just goes to show how enslaved we became.
    And worst part of is that people (sheeple) did embrace it and are loving having all these ID’s and permits.
    America has become a sad slave camp with cattle being tagged by SSN and DL.

    • The best part of the entire scam is we pay out the azz for all this stuff. Between all my registration fees (have six registered vehicles) and insurance its thousands a year. Just renewed my DL a few days ago and it was like $50! Sometimes I try and not carry insurance on all my cars/bikes. For example I have an antique car I drive as little as 3 times a year. Black and white plates (antique). If I drop my insurance on it I’ll have a notice in the mail within two week saying to get insurance back on it, or stop by dmv to surrender my special tags I paid extra for! And if you don’t we’ll suspend your license. It is physically impossible for me to drive all my vehicles at once (even with the wife helping). Then after all the monetary bullshit we are finally up and running. Only to now have to deal with pigs, I mean cops! Clovers love it all. I hate it.

  14. The case against “License Plates” is just as strong as that against drivers licenses !

    The police have no legal need to identify a vehicle’s owner when a car is driving down a road… any more than they need to instantly identify people walking down a city sidewalk.

    License-plates, in theory, merely inform observers that the owner of the vehicle has legally registered that machine with the government, and paid the required fees.

    Thus, there’s no reason why a ‘uniquely identifying’ ‘license-plate’ MUST publicly display that registration function. A small non-unique window decal would serve as well… or merely a paper copy of the registration slip in the glove compartment, or at home.

    If the police observe or have probable cause that a specific vehicle has broken the law, they can follow or stop the vehicle… and then determine its ‘registration’ status.

    However, license-plates have long been a major citizen-surveillance tool for the police, which is now the PRIMARY purpose of license-plates.

    With modern communications/computers, a license-plate-number enables the government/police to immediately call up the car owners entire detailed identity… tied in to numerous other government databases covering most aspects of a person’s life.

    The very existence of vehicle license plates is a significant privacy & civil liberties issue, but people are so used to this intrusion… they don’t notice.

      • I agree with your take on it being an excellent point as I have personal experience with its abuse. At least I thought it was abuse. I’ll try to keep it short.
        Two and a half years ago someone having a bad day made an anonymous phone call to police and reported my vehicle as “weaving”. I was followed for some time by a squad car (who I’m sure ran the plates) and pulled over asked to step out of the truck and they attempted to give field sobriety tests. I explained I couldn’t do them due to physical problems so was arrested and charged with DUI (not true). When they run your plate your ENTIRE driving history comes up. Now, I neither condone nor practice drunk driving but in my way younger days I wasn’t so responsible. A twenty year old DUI on which penalty was paid was used to justify an investigatory stop which led to an assumption which led to a charge.
        $40,000 in lost income and two and a half lost years dealing with the court system has opened my eyes to how much control we’ve given up over our government and legal system in the name of them ‘protecting’ us.
        It finally goes to court next week. “Innocent until proven guilty” has no meaning to this system. “You’re guilty until you prove you’re innocent” is how they operate.
        Am I bitter?…you bet.

        • Neil,

          I would be bitter also.

          Even in the “best case scenario,” you’d have to pay a shyster $$$ to defend you against these outrages; money you’ll still be out even if you “win.”

          But, Ahm proud to be an Ameri-i-kuhn, where at least ah know ahm freee…..

          • The lawyer’s only gotten half his fee so far and is fully aware it’ll be almost impossible to collect the rest if he loses this. Not driving (you know they “administratively” suspend you before anything else) has directly impacted my living and we’re just trying to hang on to the house. My brother in-law is famous for saying “I hate lawyers” even though he is one (and good at it).
            So..”Freedom’s just another word for..nothing left to lose”.

    • I’ve said this a few times (didn’t think it up though), we should all just remove our plates and roll without them. We have a couple members on this site that have done this already. Everyone has to do it at the same time though.

      • Did that, Dom. Spent some time in jail for it. After getting out, I gave in to the guns, but not to any so-called “authority”. If my body is not free to move upon the face of the earth as I choose it is something that has been done to me, it is because of the violence that is directed against me when I move freely, but I will never… never… volunteer or agree or participate with my captors to my enslavement by getting a license, registration, or insurance. In this I have a redress of grievance to be answered by the Universe.

        These days I ride a bicycle or ride with a friend. While riding I don’t obey any of the traffic laws and if there is ever a licensing or helmet “law” I’ll ignore those too. I ride my bike today in the same way I rode it as a kid. That won’t change. I’ve been bullied out of my car but I will never give up my bicycle. I’ve been pushed far enough, and I’ll be pushed no further.

        • In my state, you can legally ride a 50 cc bike with no DL, ins or tag.

          Lots of places selling souped up 90cc engines to swap in, a 90 cc bike beats walking anyday.

          • I recently moved to VA which allows exactly what you’ve mentioned, Justin. I recently met a grizzled old fella in his 70’s at the health food store who had his parked out front. He also had spent time in jail on the DL issue. I’m thinking I’m going to get one. Thanks.

        • Kevin,

          Good for you. I wish I could do the same – but right now, it’s not feasible. It would mean giving up my job – and income – and then I’d be in a pinch.

          We all face the same dilemma: We want to be rid of the shackles, but meaningful resistance is going to have consequences. I also hate that I have to carry around a government issued ID card like a Soviet prole – which I must present upon demand to the agents of the American-style retreats of the old KGB. I agree that free people have an inherent right to travel freely. Etc.

          But for now, like so many of us, the only practicable thing I can do is speak and write and try to help others to see the truth of the matter. When enough of us do see, then the change we’re after will be inevitable.

          • Eric, you’re doing a wonderful work in this struggle for freedom and peace. I’ve been reading your articles at Lewrockwell for a long time. I’m sure they’ve educated many. I realize most have families and can’t engage this struggle in the way that I can. We are a diverse lot, each bringing to the fight our own unique set of skills, gifts, and proclivities. You’ve got your place on the line and I’ve got mine. I’ll meet you in the Promised Land, brother.

    • There is no registration in the glove box. What is there is a Certificate of Registration. The state has the registration and with it they are the owner of the vehicle and they want their vehicles to be efficiently inventoried with unique numerical identifiers.

  15. In the last few years I’ve noticed something when making a credit card purchase which inevitably means showing a picture of myself on a laminated card.

    If the person appears over 40 or so they will ask to see my “Driver’s Licence”. However, younger than that they will as to see my “I.D.”

    And you thought the government skuls were failing…HA!

  16. Jay Wocky writes, “BTW, the only additional 411 they got was my name (already known to them), address (ditto), age (ditto) and household head count (the only datum constitutionally specified). So far, no census taker has ever chased me down and demanded more. Not even when I got the “long” form.”

    In 2000 I got the long form. I’d heard of it but had never seen one. My jaw dropped when I read all the questions: “Are they SERIOUS?

    In a pig’s eye, I sez. I filled out the questions specified by the Constitution, as Jay did, left the rest blank, and sent it off.

    Later that summer on a brutally hot day, an ancient gentleman came toddling up to my door, dressed in a white golf shirt and madras Bermuda shorts and carrying a clipboard, his glasses misted with sweat. He greeted me with a gentle smile and explained that he was from the Census Bureau and was there to “help me fill out the questions I hadn’t answered on my form”.

    Like maybe the questions had been too hard for me to answer all by myself.

    I told him that I hadn’t answered the questions deliberately, as they exceeded the government’s right to elicit information about me under the Fourth Amendment, and that I wouldn’t be answering them today, either. He explained that answering the questions would be “helping my community”, since the government used the forms to distribute funds for various purposes. I said I didn’t doubt it, but that that was a perversion of the original intent of the census, and that further I was of the belief that we’d all be better off if the government didn’t help us so much.

    And back and forth like that for awhile, until he finally gave up and thanking me for my time with another gentle smile, off he went. He was a very sweet guy. I worried that he would suffer a cardiac event before he made it to his car.

    I never heard another word about it. No followup, no fine, nothing.

    I found out later that although there is a $100 fine for not returning the form, it has never been levied.

  17. I don’t like posting my stuff on somebody else’s website, but this seems appropriate. I wrote this about 12 years ago and found it recently, so I posted it to my blog since it’s sort of timeless.

    Walking Into Tyranny

    Mendax News Service

    Lawmakers in West Dakota are floating a trial balloon to license travel by foot. Senator Joseph Ambulabis (D 84) came up with the idea after a constituent complained to him about having to obtain a driver’s license to operate a vehicle on the public roads. Ambulabis said he was unaware that anyone could drive a car without a license in most states until the 1940’s.

    The idea came to him almost as an inspiration he told Mendax News Service. If the states could turn what had theretofore been a right into a privilege, why not license walking also? One would not need a license to walk on his own property or any privately owned property (such as shopping centers) as long as they had the owner’s consent. Ambulabis has received an avalanche of outraged calls about his proposal, but he has also garnered substantial support.

    Briefly his proposal is this:

    1. All people, regardless of age would have to obtain a license to walk or operate a wheel chair on any publicly owned property.

    2. A minimal fee would be charged for the license ($10.00 proposed) which would be good for five years.

    3. All money from the licenses would go toward installing sidewalks where there are none and maintaining those that currently exist.

    4. Any surplus funds from the licenses would be allocated to hiring more police and street sweepers.

    5. In order to obtain the license, applicants would provide their name, social security number,
    date of birth, height, weight etc. and fingerprint or retina scan (to prevent fraud) and submit to
    a drug test.

    6. Anyone caught walking without a license would be subject to fine and/or imprisonment and have their walking privileges revoked for 6 months on first offense, five years on the second offense.

    7. The license would be a waiver of rights as regards search, sobriety and drug testing.

    Police officials hailed the idea as a way to catch criminals and terrorists. Police could set up license check points and catch public drunks and drug-crazed criminals much the same as they do at driver’s license check points.

    “We’ve needed a law like this for a long time,” said Keith David of the Elkhead Coalition. Mr. David has lobbied hard to get speed breakers and stop signs installed throughout the Elkhead area and says he’s delighted that someone has finally realized that neighborhoods need a revenue source to maintain their sidewalks and streets. “Non-drivers have been given a free ride as far as infrastructure maintenance, this makes them pay their fair share, it only makes sense,” said David.

    Civil libertarians have protested the proposal as a police state idea, and sarcastically called it a “your papers please” proposal. Ambulabis is not deterred however, and believes that if his bill doesn’t pass this session, it will in the next one or the one after that. He says many of his constituents are tired of not having sidewalks and having to roll their children’s strollers in the street, creating a hazard for them and motorists. He also argues that it would give police a way of identifying people who walk their dogs and let them tear up other people’s property. As the situation now stands, there is no way to identify the offenders since they can refuse to give their names and claim that they have no driver’s license or none with them.

    Ambulabis is encouraged that the governor and many mayors back his proposal. He sees it as a way to protect a free society while maintaining order. Ambulabis says his proposal is an idea whose time has come.

    Representative Arnold Benedict (R 42) of the Conservative Republicans Against Paternalism has proposed a compromise. His bill would require a license only for those walking more than one mile from home. “Most of my constituents don’t travel by foot for more than a mile anyway so they won’t be affected,” Benedict told critics of his bill. Benedict told cheering supporters at the capitol that the Republican party would continue to be “the most vigilant of watchdogs against government encroachment of liberty.”

    Meanwhile, George Mason of the Libertarian party, a perennial candidate for office has denounced Benedict’s proposal as an abandonment of principle. “Once you admit the principle that pedestrians can be licensed by the state you have given up your right to walk” thundered Mason to a handful of supporters at a downtown motel. Benedict, when questioned about Mason’s opposition told Mendax News that he “didn’t want to get bogged down in an argument over principle. We have been elected to make government work for the people; that’s what I’m trying to do; we’ve got to work out some kind of reasonable compromise” said Benedict.

    Critics say that once a right has been turned into a privilege the state can raise the price of exercising the privilege so high as to be unaffordable. Ambulabis counters by pointing out that no one would be forced to obtain a license as long as they stayed off of public property and asks how his proposal differs from licensing drivers.

    Whatever the outcome, this promises to liven up this legislative session.

    • Good stuff, Chris – your piece makes the point perfectly. I’m surprised some real Clover hasn’t yet advocated walking licenses. But I’m sure it’s coming.

      • Most real attempts have been to just force people to present ID and so forth. To be subject to a stop any time a cop felt like it, like any driver would. They’ll just use the existing driver’s license state ID system just as they do today. And have found out a few times being stopped while bicycling and walking.

  18. If you want to be invisible then being a self-sufficient farmer, hunter/gatherer or a vagrant have always been the only options. Likewise living in the country has always been more laissez-faire than the city. Heck, for some reason, oldies complain that people no longer live in communities where everyone knew your name – I guess those oldies didn’t care much for privacy.

    • Unfortunately, they’re no longer options. You cannot legally even live on your own land, fully paid for, providing for everything you need yourself there – and expect to be left the hell alone.

      The government demands rent in the form of property tax, which means you must have income – cash money – to pay it. That effectively forces you to work within the system, unless you have a large sum stashed sufficient to pay taxes for the remainder of your life. Next, the government will interfere in what you grow (or raise) even to the extent of sending armed goons onto your property if you have the audacity to, say, have a private party for your friends on your land, where they are served (gasp!) un-regulated, unapproved dairy products/meats. And of course, f you dare to use your land in ways that are not “approved,” they’ll come again.

      Let me give you an example: I have almost 20 acres, much of it densely wooded. If I were to do so much as a build a small cabin in the middle of our woods, invisible to the world, causing no harm to any person, but did so without a permit (and without informing the tax Nazis) and the pig fuckers discovered it, they could legally come onto my land and demolish the structure, or arrest/charge me for tax avoidance.

      Such is the extent of our “freedom” in the USSA.

      • I said before – you never owned your land, you lease it off the government. To truly own your land means you are a sovereign ruler amd you can make your own laws and don’t have any higher legal force to answer to. To travel outside your little nation you would need a visa to enter the U.S.A. to do some shopping.

        • Yep, slaves are created by severing any independent connection they may have to the means of production.

          I’ve often wondered why if the U.S. can recognize France they can’t recognize me as a sovereign over my own person-state. Person-states could be associated with family or household-states or interest-group-states, and family-states voluntarily affiliated with tribal-states, etc.

  19. How about a DL in order to purchase a firearm at a retail establishment? That was my lot today.

    Having done the same about 10 years ago, I knew what was coming, and that it would involve hard swallows. Showing my DL was the first. Writing my SSN on the form was the second. (Actually, that disclosure was not required. However, I can only imagine how long the “instant” check would have taken if I had withheld that datum. Besides, if they have your DL, they can find out your SSN with a couple of clicks.)

    As I said, I saw all this coming. But the third swallow was the hardest of all: choosing and checking a box for my “race.”

    I have filled out five census forms in my lifetime. On every one that presented the racist “menu” for self-identification, I have checked the box marked “other” and written in “human” on the blank line that followed. Each time, it gave me a degree of satisfaction that went a long way toward ameliorating the general disgust that accompanied the exercise. BTW, the only additional 411 they got was my name (already known to them), address (ditto), age (ditto) and household head count (the only datum constitutionally specified). So far, no census taker has ever chased me down and demanded more. Not even when I got the “long” form.

    Unfortunately, on the firearms “instant check” racist menu, there was no space for “other.” Since I wanted to make a specific purchase, this is a battle that I chose not to pick.

    As for the ID numbers/earmarks/pix and all the rest: They already know who I am. They know where I live. They know what I drive. And so much, much more. They know no more today than yesterday. They can pretty much come and get me whenever they choose. For any reason. Or none.

    Such is life in the USSA, 2012.

    We learned this week that they’re watching Drudge and its visitors. will soon be on their radar, if it isn’t already. Cheers, everyone!

    • And then if you want a CHP… gotta provide license and SS. At least in my county in Virginia they don’t (yet) fingerprint you or take an iris scan. If they try that in the future, I won’t renew and will just become an outlaw, I guess.

      • “iris scan”

        There’s a battle I have not yet fought, but am bracing for, sooner or later. Call it a phobia, but I cringe even when my optometrist does one. When the G and banks, etc. start doing them (hasn’t happened to me…yet), I’ll trust the safety of their devices as much as I trust the porno-scanners’ safety at the airport. Which is why I no longer fly commercial. But I’ve already blogged on that subject here.

      • This brings up a broader question: Where exactly is our line in the sand, as individuals? Have we chosen the point at which we say, no more, I’ve turned a blind eye to this and this, but not THIS, and become outlaws?

        I have thought about this, and I have to say, I don’t quite know. It’s not like there isn’t enough choice of things to rebel against, but like Eric said, you have to choose your battles. It would be stupid to waste your arrows over something dopey — as opposed to something small but important, according to your lights.

        I will say that I recently added an item to my to-do list: Line up a criminal lawyer soon, so s/he’s in place *before* I need him/her.

        Heck of a thing to have to think about, in this Home of the Free, eh?

        • I’ve got a few.

          I’ve not flown in years – and won’t fly again until I can do so without having my 4th Amendment rights raped.

          If they pass “gun control” I will not comply. I will not be disarmed, no matter the consequences.

          I will not have anything to do with Obamacare. I will not pay the fine. Come and get me. I won’t do anything active. I just passively refuse to participate.

          I hope more Americans decide it’s time to take a stand, too.

          • Right, those few are my few also; right on. (Although refusal to fly is still optional. They can’t arrest you for not flying. Yet.)

            I guess I was referring more to how prepared we are when the SHTF in our own individual situation. That is, when the cop says, “If you don’t comply with this order, I am placing you under arrest.” Like, right NOW. Your time for reflection has passed, the rubber has done met the road. Your job, your home, your family, your *life* is right now this minute under threat of disruption.

            What issues will you go to the mat over, and which will you bite down hard and comply with, either to live to fight another day or because the price isn’t worth the candle, or whatever other reason.

            Will it be something at the side of the road? Some non-compliance in your place of business? Some activity you’re doing in your back yard? Refusal to furnish a government form of some kind, and the troop is at your door with guns? Refusal to disperse if you’re picnicking in a public place? Or Occupying? Something with your kids, i.e. keeping them out of school because of mandatory vaccinations?

            And so on. Pick your poison.

            That’s what I meant when I said I didn’t know. Maybe we won’t know until it happens …

          • @Gail & @Eric:

            My wife and I have chosen a few lines; for some, the heavy guns come out, for others, we’re off on the first boat:

            * they come for the kids because they’re not vaccinated, not “properly educated”, or whatever trumped-up reason. Lead flies.
            * the FEMA camps start getting “visitors”; I may not be in the first wave–that will be some unpopular group, i.e. Muslims. Then it will be militias…you remember the Niemoller drill “they they came for…”
            * they come for the guns
            * they come for the metals (Au/Ag/Pt)

            We don’t fly and won’t until, as Eric says, the 4A is back in force.

            What about those VIPR roadside blocks? I won’t comply. I *absolutely* won’t allow my family to go through one of the x-ray machines that penetrates the car and YOU. Can you imagine the intensity of an x-ray beam that can penetrate the steel body of a car? Can you imagine the damage that would cause to your body? BTW, they’re in use already in California. I’ve seen images of a car with passengers; enjoy your cancer, friends.

            I’ve found that simple righteous anger makes many of the bullying little minions back off immediately. The census-taker, for instance, hightailed it out of here and I had no follow-ups after a hefty piece of mind was shared. That is: “There are THREE people living here. That is ALL the information you are Constitutionally entitled to. Now FUCK OFF.”

            The more we encourage our family and friends to engage in the same bristly, take-no-crap resistance, the faster the machine will grind to a halt.

            The Elites are terrified at the speed of political awakening; Brezinski, the arch-demon, delivered an impassioned speech at a recent CFR conference on the “global political awakening”. He wasn’t pleased. I am.

        • I drew my lines in 1994 when I rescinded my driver’s license, SSN, and birth certificate. I have no identification. I don’t stand for the national anthem. I don’t participate in the Census.

          Twice, adherents to the State faith have jailed me for not sharing their DL and I.D. sacraments. My principles in those circumstances: I don’t pay fines; I don’t make bail, I don’t plead; I make no agreements with my captors. They have the guns; they don’t need my permission to do what they will with me. I do what I’m told, but at no point do I ever volunteer into or become a participant in the violent charade. I explain to them that when they’re finished with me they can let me go. Until then my body is theirs to chain, to cage, to keep cold and unbathed in sweat-soaked street clothes, to lock in solitary with no bedding for warmth or comfort nor darkness for sleep. Yes, all of that has been done to me for not providing identification. I guess you could say I have a line in the sand.

    • I filled out the census form exactly as you did. On the other hand, I got married in North Carolina in 1993, and wrote “Human” for my race on the marriage license form. The clerk said they absolutely would not accept that I belonged to the “Human” race and my spouse-to-be didn’t want any hassles, so I grudgingly filled in “white”. What @#$%^&* business is it of the #$%^&* government what race we are?? Really burns my butt.

      • Race and such have always been a preoccupation and tool of the power elite. They want to manage people as if they were livestock and also use insignificant differences to keep people fighting with each other. Force people to make group choices amongst themselves so they don’t see that it is ‘us’ (people) vs. ‘them’ (rulers).

        On the other hand the breeding between only themselves is another strange aspect of this preoccupation that has gone on for hundreds if not thousands of years.

        • Amen BrentP! The Elites have always had a sick fascination with eugenics.

          But to what avail? If you recall, the Galton and Darwin families tried their little experiment in eugenic in-breeding…turned out marvelously if you’re into that kind of thing (mental retardation, insanity, deformity).

          Certainly the “Royals” have tried; best I can tell, the trait they’ve most enhanced is sociopathy. Ditto the Rothschild clan.

          Planned Parenthood under Sanger was (and still is) an absolutely naked attempt at eugenics. They hate strong nuclear families–especially if they’re non-white. Abortion plus welfare have decimated the black family…Mission Accomplished. We’d have roughly 35 million more happy black babies if it weren’t for the eugenicist’s “compassion”.

          Their desperate attempts to keep racism alive as an issue demonstrates exactly what you’re saying BrentP–they need to keep us divided so we don’t recognize our common enemy.

        • “The clerk said they absolutely would not accept that I belonged to the ‘Human’ race “

          Here is where I take a literalist Biblical stand: All human beings–without exception–are descended from one pair of first parents: Adam and Eve.

          That being true, the construct of multiple “races” is purely political.

      • Why did you even buy a license to marry? More government control. Marriage is supposed to be between a husband, a wife and our Almighty God. Government has no business issuing marriage licenses.

      • I was born in South Africa. I’m caucasian. I checked “African American” on my marriage license; the clerk choked…and I told her “Lady I’m the only real African-American IN here. You’ve never even been there; I was born there.”

        That was about as popular as a loud fart in a quiet church. Felt good though.

        • Where I work now I put down “Native American” on the app. One of our H.R. people came to see me about it (since I appear more “northern European”). I told him that I did indeed have a half Blackfeet / half Cheyenne great-great grandmoter, but….I was born here and that makes America the country of my nativity; therefore I am a Native American. That left him muttering.

    • I prefer not to participate in the Census at all. I’m not a party to the Consitution and am not bound by any of its terms. Forms come in the mail and go out in the trash. Later some rude person with a badge will pound on the door to remind me what the “law” requires. I explain it’s been a long time since anyone was prosecuted under the Census law, but in any event I won’t be participating, they will be receiving no information whatsoever about this household from me. It’s the same routine every ten years, but never an issue those who wear the State’s mask have wanted to pursue further with me.

  20. Over the years I’ve been converted on the issue of driving and licensing. I’ve come to the conclusion that the “kooks” were correct. Driving is a right. No different than any other right. There is no more need for a driver’s license as there is a need to have a license for a natural gas furnace in one’s home. Irresponsible people will always exist and licensing does nothing but harm the responsible people.

    There are countless things that can be deadly to one’s self and others if operated irresponsibly. Only a few have been chosen for licensing. Oddly enough, those few are the things which government wants to control for its power or the economic benefit of those close to it. Society has established mechanisms to deal with irresponsible people without the need of licensing systems. Such mechanisms would work with driving without any real difference when it comes to dangerously irresponsible drivers.

    Think of vehicles which require no license to operate upon the road. Bicycles, scooters below a certain size, etc and so on. All could be used irresponsibly. Many a clover calls for licensing their operation. The government does nothing. Why? Because the government doesn’t gain anything by licensing. Few people use these vehicles that aren’t already licensed to drive a car and the police know how to hassle them either way.

    By taking driving from a right to a government granted privilege it can also be used as wedge on many other issues. Do this that and the other thing, obey, or no driver’s license for you! Does it matter if the requirements like child support have nothing to do with driving? Absolutely not. A privilege is granted and conditions of that grant may be anything.

    • Very well put! If roads were privately owned, irresponsible drivers would quickly find themselves without a way to endanger others: the roads’ owners would please their responsible customers by locking the bad boys out. No government involvement is necessary, and in practice, government involvement == disaster (sub-optimal safety, Big Brother, parasitic fees and penalties, …).

      • Can you just imagine it? A system not based on the least common denominator? Not designed specifically to mulct people over trumped up “offenses”? Where skilled driving is rewarded rather than characterized as “aggressive”?

        God help me… I’m starting to drool a little…

      • Correct.

        The plain meaning of the 2A is that the government shall not infringe in any way on the right of a citizen to keep and to bear (that is, to carry) firearms.

        Which means, all “gun control” is an affront to the 2A and the original intent of the Constitution.

        That includes “background checks” and “permits” to carry a handgun concealed.

        The solution to “gun crime” – that is, to crimes committed by people using guns – is severe punishment upon conviction for those who use guns to commit crimes.

        Which do you think would be more effective in terms of reducing “gun crime” –

        A mandatory minimum sentence of 25 years in prison without any chance of parole for the use of a gun during commission of any crime (even if the gun was not used but merely in the pocket of the criminal) in addition to whatever the sentence is for the actual crime involved?

        Or more laws forbidding or restricting gun ownership – laws that, of course, only people who obey laws in the first place – in other words, the people who are not criminals – will obey?

        It’s pretty obvious, isn’t it?

        Why not leave honest people who have committed no crime and harmed no one alone? How about not treating everyone as a presumptive criminal merely because a few people are criminal? How about not placing honest citizens at the mercy of violent thugs by disarming them? Why not, instead, throw violent thugs in a dark hole for a long time the first time they commit a violent offense? Why not give precedence to the rights of honest citizens rather than “second chances” to known thugs?

        Such a policy would be two things Clovers can’t abide: Just and effective. Even worse, to a Clover, is that such a policy would treat people as individuals rather than part of some collective. So long as an individual does not commit a crime – that is,harm or threaten to harm someone else – he is left alone by the government and the government is bound to respect his rights as an individual. If, on the other hand, an individual commits a crime, then only that individual is punished.

        Seriously now: How can any person be opposed to this approach? My only answer is that such a person is dumb, addled by their feelings (and thus, incapable of reasoning) or simply a control-freak asshole.

        In other words, a Clover.

        • Because that “well-regulated militia” part is an archaic leftover, right? But about the right of the criminal to own a gun? He has a right to defend himself too.

          • Don’t be an idiot.

            Why, pray, was there no “regulation” (modern usage; i.e., restriction or control) of firearms in civilian possession from the time of the ratification of the Constitution in the late 18th century until the 1930s? If the 2A was intended to countenance “regulation” (modern usage) of civilian firearms ownership, you have to explain why every adult male, just about, lawfully possessed and carried arms during those years, without a permit or restriction or condition of any sort whatsoever. People openly carried rifles and pistols, everywhere.

            Did the authors of the Constitution simply just not enforce their “regulations”?

            Give me one example of “gun control” in 18th century (or 19th century) America.

            Here’s the skinny, Minny: “Well-regulated milita,” in 18th century vernacular, referred to the loathing of the colonials for standing armies. A “well-regulated” militia was the citizen-soldiery. Nothing formal. Just every able-bodied man. But possession of arms was not contingent on being a soldier, or veteran, or having been “trained” or needing a “license” or any sort of permission slip from the government.

            Again, if that were not the case, you have to explain why people were routinely and openly armed, and the government never did a thing to restrict it.

            “Gun control” only came to the US in recent memory; first in the 1930s and then again in 1968.

            And it was based on the sort of ignorance and dishonesty you’ve displayed in your post.

          • Gil, do a little research before writing. The term “well regulated militia” meant every able bodied male (typically between the ages of 18 and 45) would have his own weapon, ammunition for it and sufficient kit to subsist in the field and be trained in their use. This was in contrast to the British standing army and select militias (such as our modern day National Guard and reserves) that could be used against the populace at the whim of the ruling elite. First and foremost the populace, armed with current military arms (like the Swiss) is the final check and balance in our system of government. In addition to this, it is a tremendous deterrent to invading forces (as the Japanese recognized during World War II).

            Because of this legacy from our Founders, we are traditionally a nation of riflemen (and marksmen) and this scares the hell out of officious pricks of all stripes that wish to order us around and enslave us. Hence the ongoing effort to disarm us; just like what they did to you folks “down under” Gil. You remind me of a punk kid that got raped in the prison shower and now wants to be first in line for the next newby that gets thrown in the cell block. People like you are pathetic.

  21. Thanks, Eric! This is something that has bugged me for a long time. I don’t understand how any person who drives with at least one eye open can possibly believe that state-issued “drivers licenses” make the roads safer by ensuring that drivers are competent.

    It is just like any other government monopoly. The statists declare that we’ll all die if it isn’t a government monopoly which justifies maintaining it by force, and then said monopoly does an astoundingly crappy job for a huge amount of money. Yet anybody who looks at this monopoly and what it’s really doing is a “kook”.

    • Everyone who has actually looked into pretty much anything is a “kook”. The entire belief system of the present society is enforced with ridicule. It’s one lie layered upon another.

      The government schools “teach” us all these things that are to various degrees simply untrue. But to find out someone must have the curiosity and put the effort in. With the internet it is easy now. Before it was rather difficult. This is why government is looking to close down the internet.

      Government wants an internet ID so it knows who needs to be ridiculed and black listed.

    • I’ve long observed most accidents are caused by licensed sober drivers. I once had a M.A.D.D. telephone solicitor hang up on me when I pointed this out to her. I’ve hung up on many a telemarketer, but this was the only time I’ve ever had one hang up on me.

  22. Eric: “The SS number, in turn, is the number the government uses to make sure you pay your taxes, to keep track of where you work (and how much you earn), where you bank (and how much you have in the bank),…”

    And how much you take OUT of the bank and how OFTEN you take it out of the bank. I recently read that the SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) that banks have to deal with has been upgraded. It used to be that the bank had to report to the feds whenever an amount of $10,000 or over was deposited. No more. Now a report must be filed for any activity that is “unusual”. Plus, the bank is penalized if they inform the customer that a report has been issued and — get this — all banks have a quota of number of reports they must file, or else they are penalized for THAT.

    I recently closed a savings account. Guess I can expect a knock on the door soon. If you don’t hear from me, I guess I’ll be sojourning in Gitmo for the crime of withdrawing MY money from the bank.

    I hope this doesn’t happen. Orange is SO not my color.

    • I recently cashed a $1000 check and was nonplussed when the cashier said something like, “Going to do a little shopping, eh?” Maybe it was innocent and I’m just being paranoid, but it struck me that he has been recruited by the government to watch for any odd behavior or words from customers and, when encountered, to fill out a form so that the customer can be targeted by government thugs.

      I’m half tempted to play-act in a silly way just to stir his pot, but am genuinely afraid of what might happen if I do.

      Ah, the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave…

      • I buy silver and gold regularly. It’s fun to watch their eyes pop out and beads of sweat form on their chubby little heads when you take out *large* amounts–not 10K, but close.

        In fact often they don’t have 6 or 7K on-hand. I bet I have a raft of SAR’s following me around.

        You see, the thing is–they don’t spring the trap immediately. All those little “violations” follow you around like a flock of vampire bats; and one day, when they’re ready for you, it will all be printed out at the stroke of a keyboard as “evidence”.

        When they ask what it’s for I have three standard answers:

        1) I have a truthful and sincere heroin habit
        2) I’m a gambling addict
        3) “What do you spend YOUR money on? Oh? That’s none of my business? Likewise.”

        Of course the bitchy bureaucratic little SAR will still be issued.

        Welcome to the Heimat, citizen!

          • I buy at a local store that’s been very good to me. Their markups are quite reasonable; on “junk” silver (pre-’65 halves, quarters, and dimes which are 90% silver) it’s 0.79/oz over. Silver Eagles–always a hot item–can be up to 5 over spot; I don’t think they’re worth it personally. Some swear by them as the “gold standard” of silver coins, but to me silver is silver. Gold I’m a bit more picky–I stick with highly recognizable Krugerrands, gold eagles, and maple leaf coins.

            They’re discreet and totally cool with cash purchases–no ID. Sales OTOH require ID; but that’s par for the course.

            Personal conversations with one of the owners has comforted me; he’s one of us. He assures me the records are kept in a place quite vulnerable to fire. 🙂


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