Obama’s Dead Pool

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Here’s a list of deaths connected to the Obama White House compiled by nachumlist.  If you remember the “Clinton Dead Bodies List” from the days of the co-presidency of Bill and Hil, you may find this interesting.obama pic

The suspicious deaths of people who may have revealed information which would have been bad for the Obama administration’s agenda are on track to rival or surpass those deatiled in the Clinton list. Here’s a snip from the page linked above:

Mama Lois” Anderson: 79, and her 52 year old daughter Zelda White: Two US women aid workers were shot dead in Nairobi in Kenya (2008) were the retired Presbyterian Church missionaries of Pennsylvania (USA), known to thousands of Africans.  The suspected killers of the US women, who were traveling in a car with diplomatic license plates, allegedly shot dead by police later. They were well known for their work. There is speculation that they possibly had knowledge of the birth and care for Barack Obama in Kenya and were later murdered to cover the trail. When murdered, the husband had his full wallet which the thieves/carjackers didn’t take, and there was never a connection made to the said attackers the police later shot dead, but blamed for the double homicide/car jacking. Their church was burned in 2008, possibly to destroy any possible birth records there. Then police chief Mohammed Hussein Ali was later removed from office by Obama supported Kenyan strongman Odinga. All possible witnesses ended up dead, all possible records of the care of infant Obama burned in the church fire, and the public official responsible out of office.”

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132 COMMENTS

  1. Somewhere above, I was asked what year my fast heating up 4cyl. truck was.
    It’s a 94. Same as my v-6 S-10 was. Both had the same temp. thermostat, which made the comparison easy.

    The truck is a pickup. Not a Tacoma, not a Pre-Runner, not a Tundra. So many parts and service people have difficulty with that concept, I don’t know why. It’s kind of funny.
    It seems that ‘pickup’ is not an option on many computer systems anymore.

    Anyway, this whole thread was an interesting read.

    • Oh, I forgot to add: the cold start/fast idle fuel injector is likely what makes the difference. Except, wouldn’t revving up the v-6 excessively do the same thing?
      It doesn’t seem that way.

      No matter.

      Crap, I can’t catch up with you all, at all. I haven’t even read ‘Officer Safety . . .’ yet.

      • Roth, I have noticed thermostats don’t seem to shut completely as they age and sometimes lose a big of heat when they open. Larger engines have more block and oil to heat too even though they have more cylinders. Often there’s a difference in how well a fan clutch disengages too. I used to replace my SBC fan clutch with an aftermarket unit that engaged better when you needed it but it didn’t quite disengage seemingly as much. I like the engines that take longer to warm because they almost always cool better which is more of a consideration for me than heating. There is always the number of blades on a fan that affects both.

  2. “Growing up in west Tx. I was accustomed to hearing people cuss under their breath when “uncle” was mentioned. And sometimes not so “under”.”

    8, I’ll bet you heard them holler, “Uncle Sam’s Ass!!”

    Shit, I couldn’t scroll long enough to find a reply button that time. As Jerry Clower used to say, “There just wadn’t no way”. 😉

  3. Pain, Prohibition, and Plundering by Tinsley Sammons

    Why do adult Americans insist that their Government treat them like children?

    Following shoulder surgery that was a little more than fifty percent successful, I continue using hydrocodone for pain control. If I choose to replenish my supply legally, I must periodically make a thirty-mile round trip in order to get expensive written permission from a de facto agent of the State called, a doctor. In my case he’s a seemingly disinterested pain control expert who has absolutely no way to determine whether or not my pain is real . . . and likely does not care, beyond avoiding outrageous legal consequences.

    The Controlled Substances Act is clearly a contravention of the spirit of the unamendable Unanimous Declaration and the spirit of the Bill of Rights as well.

    In addition to effective pain control, the hydrocodone I ingest actually makes me feel good, a real perk for a weary 74 year-old retired Geezer with a body worn by decades of labor. But I wouldn’t divulge that to the doctor since self-medicating to feel good is frowned on in America. In fact, I’m convinced that drug manufacturers actually try to take the feelgood out of drugs to discourage individuals from using them recreationally.

    Hydrocodone sold in America is unnecessarily adulterated with acetaminophen which does nothing more than introduce unnecessary toxicity. So then, from the prohibitionist’s point of view, it’s okay to be disease and pain free but it’s not okay to feel good while you’re doing it. This is considered so important to those who insanely perpetuate the War on Self-medicating and Chemical Self-pleasuring that drug manufacturers are willing to risk a user’s health by increasing the toxicity of their product(s). Are all the lawyers in America asleep? C’mon guys, initiate those lawsuits before folks wise up and unite in Justice Fellowships, then file Sui Juris, thereby leaving you out of the financial loop.

    Why is an adult American – a citizen of what was once considered the most free nation in the world – forced to get permission from an agent of the State to purchase that which ought to be honestly labeled and available on the free market at a reasonably competitive price? Why should an outrageous and unnecessary de facto broker’s fee, along with prohibition costs, be added to the cost of relief?

    Cui bono?

    Indeed, who benefits? When subjected to critical thinking, it becomes clear that the stupidly Utopian War on Drugs has degenerated into an institution that does nothing more than provide political distraction and financial fodder for opportunists and parasites on both sides of the law. Frederic’ Bastiat’s term Plunder by Law fits the Drug War quite well.

    The Drug War is fueled with exaggerations, sensationalism, half-truths, lies, and unfounded fears. Adult Americans would be wise to muster the resolve to disabuse themselves of this dreadful precedent for unlawful government power.

    Born in 1936, Tinsley Grey Sammons is a self-educated Geezer with an abiding passion for liberty and justice. He served as an enlisted man during the Cold War and retired from his automobile service and repair business in 1998. He describes himself as a very angry, blue-collar-to-the-marrow curmudgeon. He and his wife settled in Gonzales, Louisiana after their home in St. Bernard Parish was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina.

    • Tinsley Sammons is the shizzle, and I appreciate his posts and look forward to more of them. He may think he’s not making a big difference, but to me he is.

      Now maybe an overweight “health care professional” will chime in to say how wrong people like Tinsley are about the medical field refusing to give them pain medication to help them… 😉

          • Dear Jacob,

            Office Space was masterful.

            Anyone who’s ever worked a white collar job in a modern business office, doesn’t matter what line of business it was, knows how uncannily accurate the depiction of the “Dilbertsphere” in Office Space was.

        • Good link, though. And I agree, overpopulation is a hoax. That said, I think there are a shit ton of people out there who are reproducing that shouldn’t be… not trying to stir up some abortion argument or even sterilization… I just think these people should be put down like unwanted dogs… And speaking of unwanted dogs, I think all the people who send their pets to the pound just because they can’t take care of them anymore are irresponsible pieces of crap that need, at the very least, a solid open palmed slap across the face, and perhaps other things…

          • Dear RAH, Jacob,

            I don’t want to get into the who of “overpopulation.”

            God only knows the shitstorm that disagreement over religion and when life begins stirred up was bad enough. I’m not eager to go there again.

            From a purely factual perspective, I think the notion of “overpopulation” needs to be considered statistically. After all, the very notion of “over” refers to numbers. Therefore it’s a numbers game.

            “… based on a world population of seven billion, the world’s inhabitants, as a loose crowd taking up ten square feet (one square metre) per person (Jacobs Method), would occupy a space a little larger than Delaware’s land area.”

            Unless I’m missing something, that doesn’t sound that bad to me.

          • I’m going to steer this one full circle!

            Everyone who doesn’t respect the life of other respectful people, like Obama and the government don’t, should cease to exist. (to put it lightly). All of the innocent kids and puppies didn’t ask to be born in a world of shit, and euthanizing them is not the answer.

            I’m using my “stick of truth” to beat back those who wish to bring abortion and sterilization into this “discussion”. Hiya! (that’s the karate noise I make when I’m beating back people with my stick of truth..)

            • Hi Jacob,

              To be very clear: I am not advocating forced sterilization. I am arguing that conditions (and limits) ought to be attached to these wealth transfer programs (if they can’t be ended in their entirety).

              Someone else’s sexual/reproductive habits are no concern of mine – unless they’re living on my dime. If they are, then I have the same right to impose terms and conditions as any parent or landlord. The “tenant” is free to leave if he does not like the terms and conditions.

              Ideally, end all wealth transfer as a violation of the NAP. But as with SS I doubt it will be possible to do so in one step, overnight. These programs got to their current insufferable level piecemeal. I expect it will be necessary to dismantle them the same way.

              One step in that direction would be obviously reasonable disincentives to discourage rather than reward irresponsible actions. Expecting people on the dole to use birth control is a pretty mild demand. So is insisting that they discontinue producing gaggles of children they not only cannot but have no intention of even trying to support on their own.

              My wife and I elected to not have kids in part because of the financial burden of taxes we already have to bear. We decided we could not afford a kid on top of that. Someone please tell me why I must submit to being a milch cow for the unending, unlimited benefit of any random stranger’s urge to shoot his load in the coochie of his ho’ du jour?

              I’ve had it, mang.

              I reject all wealth transfer in principle. But we’ve got to start someplace. And cutting off these two legged animals who rut with abandon, not a care in the world about the consequences, is something that needs doing.

          • Oh noes! I blame my Bevin, and my own excitement, for this topic of discussion:

            All those who reproduce and cannot or do not understand the burden, and the responsibility that comes with it, of bringing a new life into this world, need to be put down like unwanted dogs at the pound. (or sexually tortured to death, whatever the executioner prefers, as long as death comes quickly). The “overpopulated” offspring should be taught that there isn’t enough room in the world for the shitheads like the parents, and with enough education I think those kids will end up like me and will just know not to reproduce because there are enough fucking idiots out there doing it already, not to mention the fact that those kids have some straight up retard in their genetics and that shit doesn’t need to be passed on.

            …like Obama. (his mother was in porn and his dad isn’t around… who would’ve thought this guy is black). That was a low blow, but damn it feels good. 🙂

            • Hey Jacob,

              I’ve long advocated a solution that seems to me to be obviously reasonable:

              Minimally, additional government benefits to any individual who already has one child they cannot provide for should be contingent upon an absolute affirmation that, henceforth, they will use birth control every single time they have sex and that any future “oops” will result in not one additional penny in taxpayer provided “help” unless the individual accepts chemical (or surgical) sterilization.

              Who could possibly oppose this?

              Is it too much to ask – seriously – that people on the dole stop fucking without protection? That they accept some limit on their procreation at the expense of others?

              The sympathy train has left the station.

              Bad luck, this ain’t.

              We are talking about willful, grotesque, contemptuous abuse of others.

              And that has got to stop – or rather, be stopped.

            • Ditto that, Jacob.

              One can make an argument (not a good one, but nonetheless) that people who are down on their luck, etc. ought to be provided a safety net. But this business of rewarding people for shitting out kids? Encouraging them to have unprotected sex? At the very least, not discouraging them in any meaningful way?

              Incredible.

          • Well then, perhaps to shift gears a bit, this is preferable?:

            How My Time in Jail Helped Me Understand The Global Economy

            http://www.safehaven.com/article/31964/how-my-time-in-jail-helped-me-understand-the-global-economy

            But probably not really, because, as my better half said as I said most of the article out loud:

            “I already know this and there’s nothing we can do!”

            To which i think: Well, mostly there isn’t anything we can do, except perhaps…. Opps, my time is up. Tune in next week as I reveal the secrets of The Mogombo Guru.
            Until then, WFD.

          • Bevin, you should join the forums here so we can have these discussions in individual threads that can be ignored if necessary. It also allows people like me to edit their posts when I say shit like “my Bevin”…

          • ‘Opps’?
            Who the heck has ever heard of ‘Opps’ before? Yeesh.
            You all know I meant, ‘Oops’.
            Right?

            Pardon me.
            The former world’s oldest man said the secret to his longevity was: Whiskey, cigarettes and wild women.

            At the moment, I’m working on living longer.

          • WHat!?
            You can edit your posts?
            Someday. … I hope to get there.
            …Maybe.
            It seems like it’d make for good reading, anyway.

          • All of you unregistered peasants are more than welcome to view the registered royalty’s posts and witness the miracle that is the “edit” and “ignore” functions.

            Just use a “throw away” e-mail account, if you feel that’s necessary, and e-mail Dom to get registered. Way better layout then this front page stuff… as my near spamming here should speak for itself… too much clutter, too much scrolling.

          • Dear Jacob, RAH,

            Hey, no problem!

            I have no objection to anyone else raising controversial issues such as abortion inside the anacap camp.

            I’m merely saying I’m going to stay out of them for the time being. I’ve pretty much spoken my peace anyway. Not much more to add, for now at least.

          • Jacob, “stick of truth”. You should patent that.

            And now folks, you can get your very own “stick of truth” for a nominal sum of $19.95…..but if you order in the next 24 hrs we’ll double your order……. and those who order in the next 30 minutes will receive double that for a total of 4 “sticks of truth”. You hear the phones ringing so don’t miss out, order RIGHT NOW to get your 4 sticks of truth….plus a free “shit stirring stick”. CAll now!! Sticks of Truth will be gone soon.

          • Remember, those who want the power over society want to get the masses to clamor for it. So, they have for decades encourage certain behaviors of dependence, incivility, etc and so forth. But beyond that they have encouraged and rewarded for these people to have lots of children. But what happens? Normally reasonable people who would be appalled at eugenics type solutions suddenly are all for the government to keep those people from having children. And all the laws we get are for those people. Us good people the government is going to give a pass, but those bad people over there, we got to have these laws for.

            The government gets the power desired. Then its just a roll out… first the people without political recourse and later, once its all established, start rolling it out on everyone but the wealthy or anyone else able to finance a fight.

          • BrentP – notice how the focus of agitprop has shifted pregnancy, especially among young un-weds, to a “healthcare” issue, rather than a life choices issue.

          • Jacob, BrentP, this thing with govt. encouraging young girls to get pregnant and having everybody else support her and the child is one more way of dividing opinion and factions who hold it. Jean says the pols are stupid and while he basically may be correct, they have learned the lesson of divide and conquer. WE are their slaves.
            I just received a mailer from my Tx. rep(Rep). I didn’t know the guy, didn’t vote for him or his dem opponent. One of his points he was proud of was passing a new abortion law, effectively outlawing it in this state. I don’t want to revisit abortion but I think we all see the subject as not being something the state should control.
            Then there was his funky family, wish I could post that pic. It looked like something from the 70’s. WTF did they get those hairdo’s? Of course when his daughter gets pg he won’t have any problem of running her to NM real quick, up there in heathen land.

          • eric, I hate to single out one group but the Hispanic presence, i.e., domination in Tx. is undeniable. While not every one of them has the same views, very few dare say anything about young girls having children left and right, just like in Mexico. After all, the govt. will support her and that child, give them everything they need while her parents will get to raise it. I know all those parents didn’t have that luxury but then again. maybe I’m considering the wrong generation, maybe their parents did the same thing. You said you had friends in mexico so I’m sure you’ve heard the same mantra “The govt. doesn’t do enough of this” or “The govt. doesn’t spend enough for schools”. I never once saw anyone teaching their children anything in Mexico. When you hit San Antonio, you come face to face with the fact that you’re no longer in Tx. I don’t care what country you like, just live there and make the people THERE pay for your children.

          • eric, I can only surmise it varies from state to state but I’ve known children who have had children and received manna from govt. One thing they received, and this may not be true since a Republican takeover in the state legislature, but they at least formerly were given all sorts of birth control, plenty of condoms, more than anyone could ever use, well, evidently more than they could use. Of course most of these people approach life as if they’re still in high school. Naw, don’t want this old boyfriend/girlfriend anymore…..but I’ll raise hell about the kids since it’s expected although I won’t do anything else since it’s not expected. When I worked construction, I had two jobs, one obvious and the other, getting workers out of jail for non-support of children. I don’t even want to dive into that subject since it’s rampant state terror at it’s finest.

          • No shit Ed, nuff said by you ha ha ha ha. Shit, nuff said by all including me. When it all started I told the wife where it would end, just like it did the first time I ever really got into it with others many decades ago. Everybody got their own view and ne’er the twain shall meet so to speak. Glad for it to end and my hit team’s coming to who ever starts it up again. It’s fun to stir some shit now and then but we got bigger fish to fry or more relevant fish to fry for a libertarian world anyway.

            Jacob, those people who abandoned their pets just need the same treatment. If you want a pet and then back out, we got this pen here for your ass and you can count the days till YOU’RE adopted….or put down. Remember, the ignorant populate the world.

          • Ah, pets.
            My last dog.
            When I was 19 I lost my job during an economic crash, my spot in a condo, my woman. I could barley feed myself. Let alone the dog.
            I dropped him off at a cul de sac and wished him luck as I headed to Mexico with a stolen car.
            Looking back, I think maybe, a no-kill shelter might have been a better option.
            Jacob might say, “the best of intentions is a road paved to Hell”, or something like that?
            Can’t say that I disagree.
            How-freaking-ever; it was worlds away from, “I just got tired of him”.

          • Roth, that’s plumb sad. I’ve been lucky in that I never had it that bad. Many times though without family or friends, I would have been shit out of luck. My wife and I have taken in several dogs(and cats….and people)and ended up with most of ’em including the people. Well, those cats and dogs and people esp, helped us out in turn. i’m still grateful.

  4. 1
    Lois Anderson: 79, and 52 year old daughter Zelda White: US women aid workers shot dead in Nairobi in Kenya (2008) were retired Presbyterian Church missionaries of Pennsylvania (USA), known to thousands of Africans.

    There is speculation that they possibly had knowledge of the birth and care for Barack Obama in Kenya and were later murdered to cover the trail.

    The suspected killers of the US women, who were travelling in a car with diplomatic license plates, were allegedly shot dead by police later.

    The Husband had his full wallet which the thieves/car jacker didn’t take, and there was never a connection made to the said attackers the police later shot dead, but blamed for the double homicide/car jacking.

    Their church was burned in 2008, possibly to destroy any possible birth records there. Police chief Mohammed Hussein Ali was later removed from office by Obama supported Kenyan strongman Odinga. All possible witnesses ended up dead, all possible records of the care of infant Obama burned in the church fire, and the public official responsible out of office.

    2
    Jeff Joe Black: Found dead on a hiking trail from “blunt force trauma to the head”: Chicago activist who claimed that Emmanuel was put into place in Chicago to oversee a coming false flag event.

    3
    Michael Cormier – respected forensic technician for the Los Angeles County Coroner died under suspicious circumstances at his North Hollywood home April 20, the same day Andrew Breitbart’s cause of death was finally made public.

    Medical examiners in Los Angeles are investigating the possible poisoning death……Conspiracy theorists cry foul after Andrew Breitbart’s ‘coroner’ dies of arsenic poisoning- ….Police Debunk Theories Linking Breitbart, L.A. Coroner Tech Deaths ; No Answers in Death of Technician Linked to Andrew Breitbart: Killed by high amounts of arsinic in his system ; Breitbart’s Coroner Murdered. News From LA

    4
    Keith Ratliff; ..was well known for a series of videos he produced on Youtube, known as “FPSRussia,” in which various high-powered firearms were demonstrated. Found with a single shot in the head – Two gun makers killed in two days, and no answers (Photos) ; Partner YouTube video-maker FPSRussia Home Raided by ATF

    5
    Navy SEAL Commander Job Price, 42: US Navy SEAL commander dies in Afghanistan: suicide.

    SEAL Team Four commander in Afghanistan ‘commits suicide’ as body of married father is found shot dead:

    Clinton Injured, US Navy Seal Killed In Secret US Mission To Iran ; State Department Denies Hillary Clinton Injured in Plane Crash, but- ABC News Report on Emergency Landing of a US Plane in Iran 16 days earlier

    US Navy Seal Commander, Who Killed Osama Bin Laden, Commits ‘Apparent Suicide’ In Afghanistan
    – – – – –

    Sept 2012 Camp Bastion Raid
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2012_Camp_Bastion_raid

    • Dear Tor,

      US Navy Seal Commander, Who Killed Osama Bin Laden, Commits ‘Apparent Suicide’ In Afghanistan

      Basically the Lee Oswald/Jack Ruby fall guy/cleaner pattern all over again.

  5. Ed, that’s a great post. It got some upvotes when I posted it to reddit conspiracy.

    The dilbert thing was meant to be related, Obama is killing us softly, with his Obamacare song.

    Here to help out with the shepherding, like a mutt tag-a-long among the purebread Border Collies.

    Mother of Obama’s Murdered Gay Lover Speaks
    http://patdollard.com/2011/11/mother-of-obamas-murdered-gay-lover-speaks-up/

    All 3 Homosexual Members Of Obama’s Trinity Church Murdered Within 6 Weeks.

    2nd most popular nachumlist is gunrunnergate

    3rd most popular nachumlist is UN agenda 21
    http://www.nachumlist.com/agenda21.htm

    Price of Electricity Is Up 42% in last Decade!!!

  6. I just read through that list of people that Obama (or at the very least, the powers that be) had killed and I had no idea until now that Tom Clancy is dead.

    • “The recent Jimmy Saville/Royals/pedophilia scandal…quickly swept off any media…provide just a hint at the unbelievable depravity at the power centers.”

      Yeah, I didn’t even know he’d been sick. 😉

      • I’d laugh if I weren’t thoroughly freaked out. Well, fuck it. Hardy har har, I didn’t know he was sick either 🙁

        This is too obvious now. It will take me about two months to get my shit together and move, here’s hoping “they” keep the bullshit chugging along until I get my ass out of the city.

        Tonight I will be sleeping in a double layer of tin foil hat, lol.

        • “I’d laugh if I weren’t thoroughly freaked out. Well, fuck it. Hardy har har, I didn’t know he was sick either”

          Glad you figured out the joke despite my weird quote. My old IBM keyboard is wearing out and my ctrl+c command doesn’t take sometimes and if I’m in a rush, I do the C&P action and don’t even look to see what I pasted. The last lifted quote from an earlier response will then be attached when I thought I was pasting in a new one.

          The old keyboard will also fail to enter characters in a word or even whole words. I hate to give it up but I guess it’s time for a new one.

          • 8, I’m going to just look around for an old IBM ‘Clicky”. Just as I’m too dumb for a smartphone, I’m too limited in my usage of a computer to be able to use anything more advanced than the old basic keyboard.

            BTW, do check out the link to the site in the Opening Post. When the whole discussion thread is off topic, as this one is, the OP sometimes gets missed completely.

          • Dear Ed,

            You are right to consider a mechanical keyboard!

            I used to go through one crappy membrane keyboard after another in short order, often less than a year. And these were “name brand” keyboards too. MS. Logitech. The name brand was meaningless.

            My current keyboard is a superior quality mechanical keyboard made by “Ducky,” a respected brand.
            http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/keybroad.html

            If I remember correctly, I paid about 2000 NT for mine. That’s about 60 US. It feels like the old IBM mechanical keyboards. Mine is a DK1008 model. I think it’s the predecessor of this model:
            http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/ZERO_DK2108.html

            I’m pretty sure it will outlast six flimsy 10 dollar US membrane keyboards, while providing a far superior typing experience over its lifespan.

            How to Choose the Best Mechanical Keyboard (and Why You’d Want To)
            http://lifehacker.com/how-to-choose-the-best-mechanical-keyboard-and-why-you-511140347

          • Bevin, the one I need to replace is the old IBM clicky, as my wife calls them. My current one is 12 years old. There’s a used PC outfit online where I saw them for $120 usd. Seems they’re becoming scarce, so I’m not posting a link to them until I get mine. 😉

            They make a satisfying sound when I type. i have worn the texture off the keys on this one. It has been a real work horse.

          • Ed, I don’t have the link but I just typed in das keyboard this morn and it went right to it. That wooden, gold plated mechanical keyboard is now $139, don’t know why I thought it was so expensive. They have some other neat stuff there also like RFID proof wallets, backpacks and the like. I can see needing the wallet(some day when my worst fears are realized) myself although I have nothing else I carry that needs protection. I didn’t see a helmet though….dammit.

          • The old IBM keyboards are awesome. If you keep your eyes open at thrift stores you can sometimes pick one up for next to nothing. Another one to keep an eye on are the old Dell beige full sized keyboards from the early to mid 90s. They too have the mechanical feel to them and were very comfortable to use. The issue with the old units is that they were PS2 plugs and so you’d have to make sure you have a USB adapter if it didn’t already come with one.

          • As a professional software guy, I get very attached to certain keyboards that offer me quick access to all the weird symbols we use; [, ], {, }, | etc.

            Here’s how to resuscitate a flaky keyboard: Take it apart. Remove the circuit board. Put all the rest–the keys, the membrane under the keys, and the chassis–in the top rack of the dishwasher. Run a mild cycle.

            While that’s washing, use some 91% rubbing alcohol to clean off the circuit board. Most modern keyboards use a resistive-contact pad for each key switch; it’s like squiggly black slightly raised circuit tracings where each key sits. Clean that thoroughly and very lightly with extra-fine steel wool rub it down. Clean again with alcohol.

            Reassemble and you’ll have a new keyboard.

          • Dear Ed,

            The old IBM mechanical keyboards were great.

            But I’m not sure one absolutely has to go back to the exact same models.

            The modern revivals are quality products. They work just fine, and they also have new product warranties. It’s all in the switches. If the switches are good, the keyboards are good.

          • meth, thanks. I tried to resuscitate one my wife screwed up with condensed milk(what are you talking about? All that sticky white stuff the kitties are licking that smells like, uh, condensed milk)by using my Binks washdown gun in distilled water and then blowing fairly much dry with compressed air, then letting it sit for a few days but it has ‘problems’. I have a problem getting them apart though, don’t seem to want to separate. While I don’t have a link, das keyboard makes a wooden, gold plated switched mechanical keyboard for people such as yourself. You might want to look at it. Said to add 10% to your typing speed…whoopee, now I’m knocking out 11wpm…

    • “I just read through that list of people that Obama (or at the very least, the powers that be) had killed”

      Thanks for the only on-topic comment of the thread so far, Jacob. I didn’t intend for this thread to be about Scott Adams’ grief over his dad’s needless suffering, or about my old worn out keyboard but that’s the way it goes sometimes. 😉

      • Ed, is there a more comprehensive article about this? I’l like to send it to the group who daily say they HATE BO. Yep, I’m sure we’re all on the list.

        • Damn, 8. Just how comprehensive does it hafta be?;-)

          Seriously, though, there are links throughout, which will lead you to other sites and more links. Click on the homepage link as well. Obama is a killer, just as Bush was before him, and Clinton before Bush, and Bush before Clinton and Reagan before Bush and Carter before Reagan, and………….

          Yeah, we’re all shceduled to appear on the list.

          • Ed, good point there. Recently I read where an unidentified aide said BO said of himself “I have found something I’m really good at, killing people”. I have no problem believing he said that. I keep up with the people he kills everywhere. I don’t have to be persuaded to believe. What I find amazing is the people I’ll just mention it in passing and they have no clue. Turn that goddamn tv off and get some REAL news. It depresses me.

          • Ed, I did miss clicking on “list”. Holy shit!! Thanks much. While I knew about many of these I had no idea it was so extensive. Great Post!

          • Admin helped out with my post by imbedding the links and adding an image. I forgot a link in the final line, which I should have included as a courtesy to the author.

            Hey, I don’t keep up with any of the sites I browse. I just bookmark them and go back to read more from time to time. Some, like nachumlist have so much material that exploring takes a lot of time.

  7. Dilbert Creator – Scott Adams – Hate State Rant

    I Hope My Father Dies Soon
    Nov 23, 2013

    I hope my father dies soon.

    And while I’m at it, I might want you to die a painful death too.

    I’m entirely serious on both counts.

    My father, age 86, is on the final approach to the long dirt nap (to use his own phrase). His mind is 98% gone, and all he has left is hours or possibly months of hideous unpleasantness in a hospital bed. I’ll spare you the details, but it’s as close to a living Hell as you can get.

    If my dad were a cat, we would have put him to sleep long ago. And not once would we have looked back and thought too soon.

    Because it’s not too soon. It’s far too late. His smallish estate pays about $8,000 per month to keep him in this state of perpetual suffering. Rarely has money been so poorly spent.

    I’d like to pro-actively end his suffering and let him go out with some dignity. But my government says I can’t make that decision. Neither can his doctors. So, for all practical purposes, the government is torturing my father until he dies.

    I’m a patriotic guy by nature. I love my country. But the government? Well, we just broke up.

    And let me say this next part as clearly as I can.

    If you’re a politician who has ever voted against doctor-assisted suicide, or you would vote against it in the future, I hate your fucking guts and I would like you to die a long, horrible death. I would be happy to kill you personally and watch you bleed out. I won’t do that, because I fear the consequences. But I’d enjoy it, because you motherfuckers are responsible for torturing my father. Now it’s personal.

    I know that many of my fellow citizens have legitimate concerns about doctor-assisted suicide. One can certainly imagine greedy heirs speeding up the demise of grandma to get the inheritance. That would be a strong argument if doctor-assisted suicide wasn’t already working elsewhere with little problems, or if good things in general (such as hospitals and the police) never came with their own risks.

    I’m okay with any citizen who opposes doctor-assisted suicide on moral or practical grounds. But if you have acted on that thought, such as basing a vote on it, I would like you to die a slow, horrible death too. You and the government are accomplices in the torturing of my father, and there’s a good chance you’ll someday be accomplices in torturing me to death too.

    I might feel differently in a few years, but at the moment my emotions are a bit raw. If I could push a magic button and send every politician who opposes doctor-assisted suicide into a painful death spiral that lasts for months, I’d press it. And I wouldn’t feel a bit of guilt because sometimes you have to get rid of the bad guys to make the world a better place. We do it in defensive wars and the police do it daily. This would be another one of those situations.

    I don’t want anyone to misconstrue this post as satire or exaggeration. So I’ll reiterate. If you have acted, or plan to act, in a way that keeps doctor-assisted suicide illegal, I see you as an accomplice in torturing my father, and perhaps me as well someday. I want you to die a painful death, and soon. And I’d be happy to tell you the same thing to your face.

    Note to my government: I’ll keep paying my taxes and doing whatever I need to do to stay out of jail, but don’t ask me for anything else. We’re done now.

    [Update: My father passed a few hours after I wrote this.]

    • @Tor – More proof that government should keep its collective nose out of areas not of its concern. And to extort my money and compliance in the process.

      As Ayn Rand liked to say “Brothers, you asked for it”.

    • And upon further thought. “Note to my government: I’ll keep paying my taxes and doing whatever I need to do to stay out of jail..”

      “Voters” should ask why he had to add a qualifier on his opinion to keep his body out of jail in a free country. As if.

      • Voters? Yeah, well falling for that old “doing your part” thing caught up to me and now they want me to be a juror even though I’m working fifteen hundred miles away from home. Exemption please!? I’ve already had it postponed for six months seeing as the broad working for the county doesn’t seem to understand what the words time and theft are. Back to round two because I sure as hell am not going to show up. So this is what “freedom” is in America? Having a gun pointed to your head and being told to show up or else? Fuck that!

        • @Mot – Voting is not a requirement. They tagged me by my drivers license address.

          But check your juror logic. As a juror you have more power then the cops, judges and prosecutor by being able to “just say no” in the jury room.

    • Scott Adams is spot on.

      I feel for the guy.

      The idea that the state – that other people – have any right whatsoever to forcibly insert themselves in another person’s end-of-life decisions is so hateful it leaves me sputtering with rage, too.

      • Scott should have used Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte.

        They were all gung-ho about saving a family member on life support and did everything possible as we requested going the whole nine yards. It was going okay, until one day staph and DIC showed up at the same time.

        After a few days of DIC, organ shut down, and the death spiral, we discussed shifting downward and said: “well now all we can do is make them comfortable.”

        Comfortable meant giving them heroin for the pain and letting them slip away painlessly. We had them start unwinding all the life support but that didn’t do it. So then we decided to really bring some comfort and up the pain med dose.

        It’s gruesome to implement, but it sounds like we got lucky to have a cooperative doctor who understood both sides of the Kenny Rogers procedure. Know when to hold em, know when to fold em.

    • Dear Tor,

      This is the predictable consequence of “The Law” or “The Government,” aka strangers you don’t know from Adam, presuming to own your life, to the extent of overriding even your right to end it.

      It’s closely related to the “right to life, abortion must be made illegal” position, in that it uses an ostensible “respect for the sanctity of life” to ride roughshod over sovereign individuals’ life and death decisions about their own bodies.

      • Being raised catholic, I get the whole “sanctity of life” thing – I think these imbeciles are just mis-applying it.
        What is the point of living 50 years in a persistent vegetative state? Is that life? If it’s life – is it still “animal” life – as opposed to vegetable, which we kill freely?

        What about those who are going to die, especially painfully, regardless? Do you tell someone who has terminal lung cancer that they should “soldier on” for as long as their body can – using ridiculously expensive treatments, with loads of horrible side-effects – so the person can gain a few HOURS or DAYS of life?
        There is a greater evil at work there, it is tied to both “profits uber alles” on the Coprorate side, and “government owns you” on the gov’t side.

        We’re talking abortion WRT personhood elsewhere; I won’t rehash, no point.
        But doesn’t anyone find it funny that the same government that decides you cannot end your life (there are anti-suicide laws on the books in many places), allows us to be executed (capital punishment), murdered (referring to government workers like cops killing us “just because”), allowed to die from medical malpractice, sued into penury (maybe starvation or exposure)… This same gov’t decides you’re not allowed to decide when you’ll die, and how?

        We can presume a few basics – we’re talking about those who are really already gone, whether advanced Alzheimer’s, terminal cancers, PVS, comas, etc. I know suicide is legal in the Netherlands – anyone can go to a doctor and demand a suicide pill – and I know of cases where “healthy” people have done that.
        I know of a few cases, maybe there are more than a handful.
        Still so few that I don’t think RTL’ers have a statistical leg to stand on. The very fact we read about them indicates they are uncommon and unusual.

        We also have discounted the idea of a doctor deciding you should die now – cases here in the US are prosecuted, we hear of the “angel of Death” stories because they are odd and unusual, too.

        And seriously, I support legal capital punishment. We’re not judging you, it’s purely practical: you have shown through your actions that you are incapable of living with others, so we’re removing you from the population. Ensuring the criminally insane and truly violent and malevolent don’t get free to do it again. Comic books and the few mass-murderers on teh books get that nod – statistical anomaly, but dangerous none-the-less. Think Zasz from Batman, or Bane; think Hannibal Lechter; think Jeffrey Dahmer. Also note they need to be convicted, and have their cases reviewed and appealed. This isn’t a rush to judgement.

        And I still support the right to capital self-defense – similar logic: Your actions – breaking in, attacking someone, etc – resulted in your death. No moral issues here.

        I dislike the idea of suicide, even on my darker days when I consider it. I know it’s temporary and chemical, and I go to sleep or drink it off, and tomorrow is better, and I get myself back on track.
        I also know I’ll die one day. It’s not optional; being born gives one a death sentence. It’s what you do in that dash that defines who and what you are.

        Why shouldn’t we be able to decide that it’s time to end it? Why should we NOT be masters of out own fate?

        To enrich the Medicos? The Politicos?
        I am 38; I’m not keeping it a secret that if I have limited chances of waking up (<60% chance, basically), it's best to just pull the plug. That if I'm a complete zombie head-case, it's better to put me down. (Hell, I could be talked into jumping into the grand canyon at that point, in a lucid moment… Pushed if not lucid, it's easy!) I'm in no rush to get where I'll end up – but going is inevitable, and if I'm in a flesh-prison where I could linger for years – YOU keeping ME alive is your own selfishness at work. YOU can't stand the thought of being with me; YOU can't stand being alone; YOU are afraid…

        Who has to pay the price? If it's Divine Judgement, I'll take responsibility: MY wishes, MY decision, even if you were the hands that helped. On earth? We'll make certain it's an "accident", if we can't remove you from the equation completely. [meaning, avoid any and all legal liability.]

        Why should the GOVERNMENT have that right? Does it think it is God? Or does it just intend to make itself god? (Rhetorical question, of course.)

      • This isn’t the same thing. With abortion you’re talking about an innocent person’s life, whereas with doctor-assisted suicide, you’re talking about someone having the right to decide for themselves that they want to die once they reach a certain pain threshold. Not the same thing.

        • Hi Dave,

          We have reached an impasse – probably insurmountable. You write:

          “With abortion you’re talking about an innocent person’s life…”

          Which assumes a fertilized egg is a person. That is the bottom line bone of contention.

          The problem is there’s no definite answer – only opinions and maybes.

          I understand you believe (based on your faith) that a fertilized egg is – ethically speaking – a human being equivalent to you or me. But this is not like insisting that (as an example) a box of nails is a box of nails – which of course it is.

          A fertilized egg is something, of course. It is alive. It has the full complement of DNA. It is growing. It has the potential to become a fully developed, conscious and aware human being.

          But it is also clearly different in a number of objective (factual) ways from you or me. These differences are not trivial. Potential is not actual.

          Absent God – if he exists – manifesting and telling us that, indeed, a human soul is created at conception, one is left with maybes and opinions. Beliefs – and faith.

          Not inarguable certainty.

          Which is why people such as myself refrain from making a universal statement on this subject.

          • Eric – my advice is, don’t feed the trolls.

            My reply to David was using the tried & true, “Give them enough rope, tactic.” It worked. We learned that 1) there are no innocent humans, not even single cell ones, 2) his conception of god is as his owner> – a Libertarian, or ancap with an owner, go figure.
            And he owns each of us as well, so we are to be slaughtered on a whim of his invisible friend without remorse. Because he created us. But a man and woman who have created a child, don’t have the same creator’s rights.

            In other posts, we find David has no concern for genocide in Occupied Palestine, because both sides are “apostates.”
            I don’t think that word means what he thinks it means.
            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apostate
            But I’m an apostate, being post-Catholic.
            So my life is worth less than a zygote’s, is, in fact not worth considering.

            Kinda weird what he’s gotten away with saying here, and Eric, you’ve rallied with rational arguments. But you can’t win, or even agree to disagree, with someone who just needs attention, good or bad, and has the crazy-quilt authority of whichever Bible he likes.

            Starve the trolls, all I’m saying. He has a lot of time to spend here it seems, but I’m not calling it productive.

            Looking forward to his first post that mentions motor vehicles. Until then, I’m just skipping his posts.

            • Hi Horse,

              I hear you, amigo.

              But, to be fair to David, he’s (I think) very young. 19 or 20. Like most people that age (including me at that age) he is “on fire” and believes strongly what he believes in. I don’t fault him for that; hell, I admire passionate belief. He’s also bright (very much unlike Clover) and presents his case well enough. I don’t mind engaging such a person in debate. But as regards this debate we’ve reached the “agree to disagree” crossroads. He has his faith-based conception of human personhood – which he’s entitled to. I take the more secular, evidence/fact-based road. These two notions have yet to be reconciled and indeed cannot be reconciled absent knowledge that seems to be beyond the reach of any living person (that is, whether there is indeed a God, and whether it is the Christian God, and whether we have souls that transcend our physical existence, and so on).

              I think the points you’ve made ought to get David thinking. Especially as regard the idea of creation-ownership. Perhaps his views will evolve. It will be interesting to have a chat with him when he’s 35.

          • Sheet, Horse Badorties, you say, “We learned that 1) there are no innocent humans,”

            I’ll have to check that out tomorrow, as that just don’t ring true. Unless of course you’re saying we’re all guilty of sin at birth?

            Anyway, your statement, “a Libertarian, or ancap with an owner, go figure.”

            Yeesh, if you were a machine, it’d be no question.

            The better question is, why do you think you’re not owned, yet given the choice of free will?

            Seems kind cool to me.

            Anyway, count me in as an AnCap who has an owner.

            YMMV.

            And got-damnit wtf am I doing up?

          • Dear HB,

            I pretty much agree.

            As I said earlier, it is possible to be a theist and a libertarian, to wit, Ron Paul, but the odds are against it.

            The reason is that theism is intrinsically authoritarian in its premises, hence hostile to libertarian principles. A theistic libertarian is essentially a libertarian “against all odds.”

            The POTUS is essentially a secular version of God in Heaven. Statutory Laws are essentially secular versions of the Ten Commandments or Shariah Law.

            It’s no accident that the most libertarian of the Founders, Thomas Paine, was also the most atheistic.

            “All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”
            — Thomas Paine

            • Morning, Bevin!

              Yes, indeed.

              Washington, Jefferson, Franklin (and many others) were closet deists who inclined toward the belief that there might be some intelligent organizing principle, but it was for the most part beyond human understanding. They spoke with reverence of “nature’s god,” less often (and more perfunctorily) of the God of the Bible.

              This is more or less my view also. The natural world is magnificent, with its riot of life, the intricate and inter-related complexity of it all. But it is also dreadful, cold, indifferent to suffering.

              All we can know, it seems to me, is that it’s wrong to deliberately cause others to suffer who have done us no harm (NAP). This is the essence of my ethics – and my politics flow from that premise. They require no reference to a deity. And if such exists, I cannot imagine him (or rather it, the idea of a sexed God striking me as another childish anthropomorphic projection) taking issue with me over it.

          • Oh crap, I forgot to mention how I love my 4 cylinder single cab pickup that warms up super fast when I start it up at 4 a.m. to defrost my windshield. It’s world’s away better than that S-10 Blazer I had. …Worlds.
            And it’s not just about the lesser amounts of interior space I have to heat up. That four banger heats up right quick! Better than any vehicle i’ve had to date.

            • Morning, RB!

              What year is the truck? The modern stuff is set up to warm up faster in order to reduce cold start emissions.They also tend to run a little warmer – on purpose – and for the same reason (also fuel economy).

              My old Trans Am, on the other hand, sometimes takes several minutes to transition from choked fast idle to normal idle when it’s cold outside!

          • Dear RAH,

            As I said, my own mother is a Christian. So believe me when I quote “The Godfather” and say “It’s not personal.” Because with me, it really isn’t.

            I’ve never had the slightest interest in the ego oriented pissing contests that are so common online, especially at YouTube.

            It’s not about “winning arguments.” It’s about advancing liberty so that we can all be free from statist tyranny.

            If another person is a theist, but a genuine libertarian. I’m content to leave it at that. As long as he or she doesn’t advocate theocracy or statism, I’m indifferent to his religious orientation.

          • Late here too, Roth, and I fell into thinking I was just talking to Eric, lol, who I know saw my original post. It’s nice that your car warms up so fast, here in CA that’s not a thing usually.
            Hope this helps.

          • Dear eric,

            Deists. Exactly!

            A God that created the universe, but then sat back and let mankind take it from there. Basically a “laissez faire” approach to religious faith if you will!

            God as they conceived it was essentially indistinguishable from Mother Nature. To them it was not “God = Paternal Authority” but rather “God = Natural Law.”

            When they talked about “God given rights” they were invoking natural rights theory, rooted in the needs of human survival. They were not talking about privileges conferred them by some cosmic authority figure on a throne in heaven.

            Christian conservatives like to claim that “America is a Christian nation.”

            But that is only by cultural predisposition, not legal intent.

            Britain and Germany, where most European Americans came from, were nations with predominantly Christian traditions.

            Otherwise, why the First Amendment provision against the establishment of a state religion? That’s a funny way to establish a “Christian nation.”

          • Roth, what brand pickup is it? Does(anyone)Mitsu still make a pickup? Just got to thinking about one I drove on a job, not my own. It was one of those If you’re headed downhill with the wind to your back no telling how fast you could go…..but probably only see 90 a couple times in its life. Camper shell on back, headed east on I-20 with a good west wind blowing, had it nailed for the last 20 miles and then falling off the caprock……wheeeee……88 at the bottom..

            • Hi Eight,

              Other than the Tacoma, there are only big trucks – 1500 and larger – being sold new now. Word is Chevy will have a new version of its Colorado/Canyon out for 2015. Here’s to hoping it’s compact-sized and offers a diesel.

          • eric, about 2005 or so a friend had a Tacoma crewcab prerunner. It had a throttle glitch, couldn’t leave without spinning tires, bugged hell out of me driving it. The whole pickup was too jittery, not a great ride at all. He traded for a Canyonero/Colorado crewcab 4WD. I couldn’t tell any difference in size but the C/C had better seats, more room in the back seat and was a much nicer ride, ran well, got good mileage but he traded it when a 19 yr old drunk had a head-on with him the first day to get his license back from losing it for drunk driving. Yep, the system really works. I bought my compact Nissan to fill a nitch and it did that to some extent. It was the last year of carbureted Nissans and never got over 18mpg but got about 16 when I installed 15X7″ wheels and 30.5X15 tires. It was small and went places the big pickups would have had to bust brush. I fault Nissan for never making a LSD for it and neither did anyone else. It would have been awesome in 4WD with lockers F&R. A friend had a 66 Bronco though that would almost turn in it’s own tracks, had V-8 power and would go anywhere the Nissan would and carry 5 people. Seems like they only went downhill from the 60’s in some categories.

          • @Eric, @Horse et al–

            As you guys know, I also fall on the life-begins-at-conception side of the argument…for different reasons than David’s, but reasons I defended at length on the other abortion thread.

            It’s a point we’re going to have to agree to disagree, as Eric says.

            But it’s NOT equivalent to the assisted-suicide debate! Very, very different argument.

          • Dangerous territory, Eric. If I get enough people to agree with me that some senior-something, handicapped, downs-syndrome, what have you, has no more to “give” society and that deep-sixing their ass would be financially and societally beneficial, who’s to say that’s “wrong”. Likewise we could argue they’re no longer “fully human” and thus strip them of any say so as to whether they can mewl and complain about being shuttled off this mortal coil. Dangerous waters indeed.

            • Hi Mot,

              I would never, under any circumstances, approve the murder of anyone. Hell, I oppose theft of any kind for any reason as an ethical breach!

              What I object to is being chained to the “needs” of random strangers. I am sympathetic to the troubles of other people – but their troubles (no matter how severe) don’t impose an obligation that’s (ethically) enforceable by violence. But if I am forced by the threat of violence to “help” them, then surely I have a right to object – and to demand limits and restrictions such as those enumerated in my earlier post.

              Mind, I am not forcing them to use birth control, or to accept some form of sterilization. I am only insisting upon it as a condition of their continue receipt of my “help.” They are free to do as they please – just not at my expense (or the expense of any other unwilling victim). As far as older people, those with Down Syndrome – and so on: No one (not me) advocates doing them any harm. I merely defend my right to not be done harm by them (or their proxies). One person’s misfortune is not an ethical basis for imposing misfortune on others by violence or its threat.

              Of course, I realize the foregoing will be taken as evidence of my “selfishness.”

          • eric, as a democrat ‘Maine’ girl, an old college friend accused some of us of being “mean-spirited”. Of course she’s a military brat and is accustomed to having uncle meet her every need. Growing up in west Tx. I was accustomed to hearing people cuss under their breath when “uncle” was mentioned. And sometimes not so “under”.

        • Dear David,

          There is indeed an “innocent person” involved in the example about which I wrote at length.

          It is the female rape victim who was forcibly impregnated against her will, and who now is confronted by other people who would either physically compel her (or at least morally pressure her) to undergo nine months of pregnancy and also bear a child fathered by her rapist.

          That is the “innocent person.”

          Somehow the “right to lifers” forget all about that life while delivering learned academic sermons about how a just fertilized egg still fully within a woman’s body is somehow a “full fledged human being replete with rights.”

          • Bevin, be fair, old thing. Reread the comments and you’ll see that it’s Horse who says there are no innocents. Christians view children as innocents and we count the unborn as children as well.

            If i missed David claiming that there are no innocent parties involved, then here’s my best Roseanne Rosannadanna, “Well, that’s different. Nevermiiiiind.”

          • Dear Ed,

            You are right to call for fairness.

            That’s why I did not indict David while addressing my comment to David.

            I wasn’t sure who said what exactly when I replied.

            So to be safe, I did not say “You” (David) would do such and such to a rape victim. I decided to refer to third parties, i.e., “right to lifers.”

            Evangelical Christians who are explicitly calling for making abortion illegal, even in the case of rape.

            But again, you are right to call for fairness.

          • Quite right, old thing. Quite right. Now, if I could just bring another item to your attention: the “fertilized egg” buncombe that the “right to aborters” ( I just made that up and it’s really clever, what?) so dearly love to drag into the conversation.

            As you are aware, being an educated fellow, humans don’t actually produce eggs. Eggs are part of reproductive systems which are very different from the human reproductive system. An egg is passed out of the body of a female bird, reptile, fish, insect, marsupial,or amphibian (whew, that was a long list and it’s also probably incomplete) and is capable of exisitng outside the mother’s body where it can develop into a young whatever-it-may-be. The egg emerges whether or not it is fertilized and “fertilized egg” is a proper term for what it is.

            The “fertilized egg’ buncombe is a fraudulent term when used in reference to the human reproductive system. The term is used for the effect it is intended to have. That effect is the dehumanization of the unborn human. Christians regard the dividing cell in the womb as the beginning of human life. Others may not, but this assumption of humanity inherent in the early stages of fetal development is accepted by Christians.

            It is an almost clever little dodge which says (to the person who does consider a human at any stage of development to be a child) ,”You imbecile! We’re talking about a THING here!”. I consider it a sign that the one using the term intends to pull a little bit of a fast one, figuratively speaking. It’s provocative. it’s also a bit of a cheat jump in argumentation.

            Now, my esteemed cyber-associate, I have pointed out one of my concerns and have tried to base it on logic and observable fact. No insult is intended, so take it in the spirit in which it’s offered, as a request for more considerate language.

          • Dear Ed,

            Let’s cut to the chase.

            Let’s bring our awareness back to the rape victim who has just been told that the thug who raped her has impregnated her.

            Now not only has she been victimized by a brutal violation of the NAP during the ordeal of the rape, some people are now demanding that she be forced to endure a nine month pregnancy and bear a child by the rapist.

            She did not choose this by engaging in consensual sex. She was attacked and overpowered, and forcibly impregnated.

            She already finds the rape a traumatic experience. Now some people are demanding that the ordeal be intensified and prolonged for nine more months? And what about after the birth? Is she going to be forced to raise the child of her victimizer?

            Is the rape victim not a “life” who needs to be protected?

            Forgive me if I cannot see either logic, or justice, or simple human compassion in the “abortion must be illegal and prevented by law” argument.

            Again, I am not necessarily addressing anyone in particular. I am addressing those who in fact hold such a position.

            If anyone reading this does not advocate “abortion must be illegal and prevented by law,” then I have no practical level argument with them.

            As long as they allow the rape victim to terminate her pregnancy in order to end her ordeal, I have no practical dispute with them.

            I might have a theoretical argument, but not a practical dispute.

          • Ed – you just might have missed it.
            It’s not the forum, right?
            Here: https://ericpetersautos.com/2013/11/18/can-good-ever-come-blood-money/#comment-122583

            Relevant quote:

            To answer your question about the innocent, I really need to define my terms better, and that means getting into theology a bit. “innocent” is really not an accurate description for any human, but when describing the relation between humans, I use it as shorthand to mean some human who is not either attacking you or guilty of a capital crime (Murder or something similarly heinous.) Those are the only cases when humans, of their own accord, have the right to kill other humans.

            God’s direct commands for specific situations don’t really fit in that paradigm at all because he’s God. First of all, he created humans, and so he owns them. Second of all, we’ve all sinned against God, so in his eyes we all deserve to die anyway. So it isn’t unjust for God to command the Israelites to slay the Canaanites or whatever. He’s God, he had the right to give that command. That said, most of those commands were solely for Old Testament Israel, not for the Christian church in the New Testament.

            He goes on, and makes some disparaging remarks.
            I didn’t think that my post could be mistaken for promoting David’s …assertions.
            Imagine my chagrin.

          • “Forgive me if I cannot see either logic, or justice, or simple human compassion in the “abortion must be illegal and prevented by law” argument.”

            I’m not arguing any such thing, and I never have. Is that what David said? If so, I missed it. My reply dealt with the disingenuous “fertilized egg” hooey, which is so widely used.

            I do love cutting to the chase, but it isn’t possible to do by replowing a muddy field.

          • “Ed – you just might have missed it.”

            Thanks for finding and attaching the quote. As it turns out, I didn’t miss it at all, but you seem to have misunderstood what he was saying. He’s obviously referring to adults. I commented that, to Christians like me, all children are considered innocent and that I/we/Christians view unborn humans as children.

            Indeed, this isn’t the forum and the tedium of scrolling up to find the correct reply button to the correct nest of comments makes this into a little more work than I’m capable of carrying on, given my advanced age, poor eyesight and my near imbecility.

            I seem to have stumbled into a discussion that doesn’t really interest me. Gang shagging isn’t my cup of tea, much less when I’m on the receiving end of it.

            Forget I responded. I’ll toddle off now. Shag on amongst yourselves if you like.

          • Dear Ed,

            Here is what I wrote:

            “Again, I am not necessarily addressing anyone in particular. I am addressing those who in fact hold such a position. ”

            I am not putting words in anyone’s mouth.

            and

            “If anyone reading this does not advocate “abortion must be illegal and prevented by law,” then I have no practical level argument with them. ”

            My priority is minimizing the harm already visited upon the rape victim, and preventing it from becoming even greater.

            The rest, egg, zygote, is of secondary and tertiary in importance to me, and I don’t have a lot of interest in pursuing it much beyond this.

      • Dao is great.
        Heaven is great.
        Earth is great.
        And human being is also great.

        There are four great things in the universe,
        And human being is one of them.

        Human being models himself after Earth.
        Earth models itself after heaven.
        Heaven models itself after dao.
        And dao models itself after zi ran

        http://www.confuchina.com/05%20zongjiao/Lao%20Zi's%20Concept%20of%20Zi%20Ran.htm

        To begin with, Anarchy and ancient Taoism share a central premise. This premise is that only natural, uncoerced and voluntary action is acceptable. Both Anarchy and Taoism realize that any restriction to this process creates the seeds for disorder and chaos.

        It is natural for any animal in nature to seek to protect its own life. A squirrel is harmless, until you attempt to capture or corner it. Then it will lash out with claw and teeth, in an attempt to be free.

        Everyone has a right to defend their ability to live. Natural and voluntary action equate with the best life. One has life, only to the degree that they may freely act. Putting liberty and life together has been a cornerstone of “liberationists” of every stripe. One is only alive when one is free.

        The more prohibitions there are, the poorer everyone will be. The more laws that are made, the greater the number of criminals.

        The wise leader by example says: I do nothing, and people become good by themselves. I seek peace, and people take care of their own problems.

        I do not meddle in their personal lives, and the people become prosperous. I let go of all my desire to control them, and the people return to their natural ways.

        The highest good is not to seek to do good, but to allow yourself to become good. The ordinary person seeks to do good things, and finds that they cannot do them continually.

        The wise person does not force virtue on others, and thus is able to accomplish their task. The ordinary person who uses force, will find that they accomplish nothing.

        The kind person acts from the heart, and accomplishes a multitude of things. The righteous person acts out of pity, yet leaves many things undone. The moral person will act out of duty, and when no one will respond will roll up his sleeves and uses force.

        When people cease acting in a natural way, they create “righteousness.” When righteousness is forgotten, they create morality. When morality is forgotten, they create laws. The law is the husk of faith, and trust is the beginning of chaos.

        Our basic understandings are not from the Natural Way of Life, because they come from the depths of our misunderstanding. The wise person abides in the fruit and not in the husk. They live in a natural way, and not behind the things that hide it.

        This is how one becomes wiser.

        http://www.strike-the-root.com/3/gillespie/gillespie1.html

        I’m confident in the following: nowhere in the Old or New Testament, does it authorize commanding non-believers how to live. There is no case of going to any government or authority and saying “make abortion illegal.”

        The doctrinal process is;
        Spread the word and bring as many people into the fold as you can. Once people are part of Israel or disciples of Christ, then and only then, do you get to enforce rules and beliefs amongst your spiritual phyle.

        My interpretation of the NAP is upheld by the scriptures as well. You can do all manner of things within your household and yet not violate the NAP.

        NAP is violated when the Romans or other peoples intrude into the Jews or Christians phyles and start telling them what to do.

        NAP is a one way street that extends to the boundaries of your phyle and no further.

        David will first probably have to concede that his “religious institution” is making up its own protocols that have gaps in its scriptural authority. He’s a part of a religion that is inspired by, but not fully faithful to the words of the prophets.

        I would venture further and say something akin to the NAP is not something meant to be used to decide when life begins. Or what murder is. It’s a very limited tool, not a swiss army knife for every situation.

        ~”The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught having an abortion. They made her stand before the group and said to Yeshua, “Teacher, this woman was caught having an abortion.

        The Law commands us to incarcerate her and hold her in a trial by her peers. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

        But Yeshua bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who has not violated the law and not been punished be the first to go to the authorities and report her.”

        Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
        At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Yeshua was left, with the woman still standing there.

        Yeshua straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one reported you?” “No one, sir,” she said.

        “Then neither will I report you,” Yeshua declared. “Go now and leave your life of aggression and natural law violation.”

        • My favorite so far, Tor.

          I have half a dozen translations/interpretations here, and all are valuable.
          The one I like best is Roy Grigg’s “The Tao of Being.”

          • Dear HB,

            Never heard of The Tao of Being either!

            Had to look it up too. Looks interesting. I’ll check it out.

            I read the Tao of Physics years ago.

          • Hey Bevin – a sample:

            37. Each Thing’s way
            Trouble is caused by people who think they are smart enough to improve things. First they try. When there is resistance, they push. Then they push harder until their intentions are lost in struggle and discord. Cunning and ingenuity make things worse.

            Go softly in the world. Place the smallness of what is known beside the greatness of what is not known. Understand with humility. Honour what is known. Honour even more what is unknown.
            Trust the natural way of things. Ordinary simplicity is infallible.

            Let everyone find their own way. Teach reluctantly. The same secret is different for everyone. Tell no one but keep no secrets.

            There is a limit to a lifetime but not to the mystery in a lifetime. What foolishness then trying to capture the unlimited in the limited. How presumptuous to understand! Understanding, therefore, should not get in the way of each thing’s way.

        • Dear Tor,

          “Anarchy and ancient Taoism share a central premise. This premise is that only natural, uncoerced and voluntary action is acceptable. Both Anarchy and Taoism realize that any restriction to this process creates the seeds for disorder and chaos.”

          I say “Amen to that brother!” LOL.

          On a more serious note, I say, “So true.”

          It makes perfect sense. Man survives by means of the intellect. Therefore he must remain free to exercise that intellect and make life or death decisions based on his own best judgement.

          External compulsion in the form of “political authority” overrides that process, undermines his decision making, and to a greater or lesser degree hampers his odds of survival.

          Adam Smith and his “Invisible Hand” (Laissez Faire) closely parallel Laozi and his “Wu Wei Er Zhi” (Rule by Doing Nothing)

          • I’m learning to ziran is all.
            http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/612116/ziran

            Ziran is a central concept, closely tied to the practice of effortless action.

            Ziran can be seen as the positive side, with wuwei opposing it as the negative.

            Ziran refers to a state of “as-it-isness,” the most important quality. To become nearer to a state of ziran, one must become separate from unnatural influences and return to an entirely natural, spontaneous state.

            Ziran is related to developing an “altered sense of human nature and of nature per se.”

            The only thing that a being must be when it exists in accordance with ziran is ultimately natural, unaffected by artificial influences.

            Ziran and tianran are related concepts.

            Tianran refers to a thing created by heaven that is ultimately untouched by human influence, a thing fully characterized by ziran.

            The two terms are sometimes interchangeably used. It can be said that by gaining ziran, a person grows nearer to a state of tianran.

            Ziran is an aesthetic of action: “Living is an act of creativity demonstrating itself.

            Creativity is objectively seen as necessity, but from the inner point of view of emptiness it is ‘just-so-ness,’.

            It literally means ‘byitself-so-ness,’ implying more inner meaning than ‘spontaneity’ or ‘naturalness’

            Self in Jungian psychology
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_in_Jungian_psychology

            Human beings, impose their own order on reality, differentiating it by creating language and names for individual things, by developing rituals that order human life, and by creating government, which channels the energy of the people toward particular ends.

            Such actions distance people from the generative process of which they are a part.

            Instead, humans should attune themselves to the constant transformations. They may accomplish this by cultivating an openness toward spontaneity (ziran), which characterizes the constantly unfolding universe.

    • Tor, this happens so much it is a travesty beyond words. My father’s last year definitely sucked if not the last two. A friend tried to off his mother on her deathbed with her own meds and didn’t use enough. I would have left one in the bottle and nobody would have questioned it but he screwed up, she lived to an even better/worse mess. I don’t remember his exact words but I’m sure the sentiment would have been accurate “if this isn’t the mess it’ll sure do till the mess gets here”. I can think of many friends who went through the same thing, some I thought would surely die since they’re mother had been bed-ridden and with no mind for several years. No money or place to put her they lived with that ‘mess’ for many years. An Alzheimer doc told my sister and I we’d die before my dad did. We thought he exaggerated but I was sick in bed with stress related illnesses when he died and my sister continued to decline for another six years before dying. Using his .357 on him would have been a blessing for all of us.

      • My wife’s aunt – whom she was very close to – died last April. Slowly. Hideously.

        She had all sorts of problems: COPD (on oxygen), intestinal blockage/some sort of probably cancerous growth in her gut. She was completely debilitated; the situation hopeless. She was not going to get better. Ever. Accordingly, she did not want “heroic” measures to keep her biologically alive for a time. This woman had spent her working life as an ER nurse. She knew what was in store. Instead of helping her to pass peacefully, she was starved to death. Literally. Kept in a bed for the month-plus it took for her to waste away to a Dachau apparition, then slip into a coma and – eventually – die.

        Words are inadequate to describe the horror.

      • I’m sorry to hear that Eightsouthman.

        It’s definitely no fun trying to sleep in the lounge, and to pull shifts so you’re there when needed. I think I was there for a few days less than two weeks.

        In a lot of ways, most of the docs, nurses, and techs seemed like types of middlemen. Ones I wouldn’t have wanted to deal with had it not been for having connections and prior relationships.

        Why is it, people you’re paying always have to open their mouths and try to bully you into their idiotic ideas of this or that. I pay, you do what I say, that’s how it should be.

        It’s the machines, drugs, and a limited number of higher reasoning specialists that determine protocols that are doing everything usually. Most people in a hospital are just fancy biological versions of lube techs and tire techs, nothing more really.

        I wish there was a Spanish version of a hospital the way there is a Llantas for your tires. Imagine medical people just executing medicine your way, because there’s a language barrier stopping them from doing anything else.

        I hope they let in a 100 million more Central and Southern Americans. The first step is for everyone to back off of everybody else. The language barrier will do that nicely.

        It kills me how people here are acting like they’re in the catbird seat, and that somehow, they call the shots about how our current social imprisonment system is carried out. It’s easy to see Clover’s delusions, but harder to see your own.

        It’s your life, your family, period. If you are unlucky enough to need machinery to keep you alive, you will need a strong support system and people with experience, and with pull.

        From what I could see, the vitals monitor is like a 24/7 point-of-sale or fast food cash register device. There was a desktop computer that was associated with it, and they were careful to log everything they did at the vitals machine or computer.

        The hospital is just a franchise, somewhere at corporate, they get info from all the patients that are on the machines, and they run their protocols and then report reams of data to the State Board of Medicine.

        Without the right person, they’re very limited in what they can do for you. The machines and the records tell a story of what’s happening. The story needs to be within strict limits of what is allowable.

        Most places are tightly controlled, maybe there are ways to find out in advance where best to go to have the freedom to do what needs to be done. The right place in the US or even Mexico, whatever it takes.

        • Tor, I had a life before taking care of my father. My sister and I had families but we changed shifts taking care of him for several months, then got a live in caretaker. Once the physical thing got bad then it was really tough to find an answer since he could APPEAR lucid even though he might relate a story that had never happened. Social pressures from those who had designs of still having him give them money and his old friends he could bullshit (I often wonder how much some of them actually believed)who still treated him well and us bad made the entire thing a nightmare. Once major bones began to break(lupus)it got hospitals and and FINALLY a hospice for the last couple weeks. You’d think once someone is completely incommunicado that would be preferable but it’s just more of the same only worse. If I could have just taken him out a year earlier he could have avoided a great deal of misery. I dearly loved my father but a body that just punishes what’s left of the brain is no way to survive. I have witnessed the same thing too many times with people I was grateful I didn’t HAVE to be there for. Mine is not a new or unusual story, just mine to endure. Thanks for the sympathy. Some people don’t want to admit it but the living sometimes suffer as much as the dying, esp so in my sister’s case.

          Of course all his kids get/got to look forward to the same thing.

    • Dear Tor,

      Speaking of deaths caused by the Bushobama Regime, this may have flown under most peoples’ radar.

      U.S. aircraft fly over East China Sea without informing China
      WASHINGTON Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:17pm EST

      Nov 26 (Reuters) – Two U.S. military aircraft have flown around disputed islands in the East China Sea without informing China, a Pentagon spokesman said on Tuesday, defying China’s declaration that the region falls into a new airspace defense zone.

      “We have conducted operations in the area of the Senkakus. We have continued to follow our normal procedures, which include not filing flight plans, not radioing ahead and not registering our frequencies,” Colonel Steve Warren added, using the Japanese name for the islands.

      There was no Chinese response, Warren said.

      (Reporting by Phil Stewart; Editing by Will Dunham)

      So much for “liberal Democrat” Obomber and his Nobel Peace Prize, awarded in advance as an incentive to earn it.

      This military aggression abroad, 8000 miles across the Pacific, is the foreign policy counterpart of the domestic police state back home.

      What the body count will be if all hell breaks loose here is anybody’s guess.

      Incidentally the correct name for the islands is “Diaoyutai Islands.” It means “fishing platform.” The islands have been part of China for centuries.

      http://www.mofa.gov.tw/EnOfficial/Topics/TopicsArticleDetail/fd8c3459-b3ec-4ca6-9231-403f2920090a

      But that is a long story for another time.

      • Read about this earlier today. BTW, the planes were B-52s from Guam. Nothing like an aging broke empire using ancient equipment. But I digress….

        How could the warfare wing pass up getting in on a fight between China, Taiwan, and Japan over some tiny rocks sticking out of the ocean?

        • Dear Brent,

          Indeed.

          Think about it, the warfare state is willing to murder 3000 Americans in the Big Apple by planting controlled demolition charges in the WTC towers.

          Why would it even hesitate to murder however many “gooks” in either the Mainland or Taiwan regions of China?

          It’s a no brainer.

        • @BrenP – Not to worry. Getting rid of old munitions inventory will be done by guys at computer terminals with joy sticks thousands of miles away. Unless they need to get rid of some over priced humans in the process. But that would be the old school way.

          It is good to see Orwell’s forever winless-war between the three great power centers (1984) is still in accurate.

        • The B-52 is an impressive sight, but it is the Dreadnought of the skies. If a real shooting war ever comes that involves a foe operating on a higher plane than Bedouins with AKs and RPGs, B-52s will rain out of the sky – if the AF is dumb enough to send them anywhere near harm’s way. They were obsolete during the war on Vietnam – and that was more than 40 years ago.

          • Dear Eric,

            An Asia Times article penned by a Russian American (?) political observer blasted the dick move by the Obomber regime.

            THE SAKER
            US diplomatic iceberg spotted near China

            http://atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-03-271113.html

            Excerpt:

            Do you remember president Bill Clinton ordered two US aircraft carrier battle groups into the Strait of Taiwan in 1996 to “send a message” to China? Well, it appears that Barack Obama, the lame-duck, spineless multi-humiliated and multi-defeated president of the US of A, just had a surge of testosterone and decided to provoke China yet again by mocking its decision to extend its air defense zone over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands.

            I checked out the author’s blog. He appears to be a 9/11 Truther and a fan of Ron Paul.
            http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.tw/

        • Dear Gary,

          You got it!

          The sovereignty issue is a long story. I’ll make it short.

          The Diaoyutai Islands, which the Japanese refer to as the “Senkakus,” are part of Yilan County. Yilan County is part of Taiwan Province. Taiwan Province is part of the Republic of China.

          Japan attacked a weak China in 1895 and extorted Taiwan from her at gunpoint. Fifty years later, in 1945, Japan, having lost WWII to the Allies, which included China, was supposed to give back everything stolen from China a half century earlier.

          For the most part Japan did. Japan gave back the main island of Taiwan, but not the outlying Diaoyutai Islands. Uncle Sammy held onto these. When the Cold War broke out, the US turned the islands over to Japan to “administer.”

          When vast deposits of natural gas rivaling those in the Middle East were discovered beneath the islands, Japan decided it wanted to change “administer” to “possess.”

          It took advantage of the fact that China (both the Mainland and Taiwan regions) was thenmilitarily weak. It built lighthouses on the islands. It posted people on the islands. It patrolled the waters around the islands. It basically did everything it could to make it look like it owned the islands.

          Recently it “nationalized” the islands. This, for China, was the last straw. This is what touched of the latest confrontation in the news.

          Needless to say, most of the US MSM has gone into full blown spin control mode. They refer to the islands by the Japanese name instead of the Chinese name. They argue that “possession is nine tenths of the law.”

          Bottom line? Uncle Sammy is using the Diaoyutai Islands as payoff to Japan in order to “contain” a rising China and to retain hegemony in the Western Pacific.

          • @Bevin – Thanks for the truth never seen here. Two and two is five.

            In 1944, three years before writing and five years before publishing 1984, George Orwell penned a letter detailing the thesis of his great novel. The letter, warning of the rise of totalitarian police states that will ‘say that two and two are five,’ is reprinted from George Orwell: A Life in Letters

            To Noel Willmett

            18 May 1944
            10a Mortimer Crescent NW 6

            Dear Mr Willmett,

            Many thanks for your letter. You ask whether totalitarianism, leader-worship etc. are really on the up-grade and instance the fact that they are not apparently growing in this country and the USA.

            I must say I believe, or fear, that taking the world as a whole these things are on the increase. Hitler, no doubt, will soon disappear, but only at the expense of strengthening (a) Stalin, (b) the Anglo-American millionaires and (c) all sorts of petty fuhrers° of the type of de Gaulle. All the national movements everywhere, even those that originate in resistance to German domination, seem to take non-democratic forms, to group themselves round some superhuman fuhrer (Hitler, Stalin, Salazar, Franco, Gandhi, De Valera are all varying examples) and to adopt the theory that the end justifies the means. Everywhere the world movement seems to be in the direction of centralised economies which can be made to ‘work’ in an economic sense but which are not democratically organised and which tend to establish a caste system. With this go the horrors of emotional nationalism and a tendency to disbelieve in the existence of objective truth because all the facts have to fit in with the words and prophecies of some infallible fuhrer. Already history has in a sense ceased to exist, ie. there is no such thing as a history of our own times which could be universally accepted, and the exact sciences are endangered as soon as military necessity ceases to keep people up to the mark. Hitler can say that the Jews started the war, and if he survives that will become official history. He can’t say that two and two are five, because for the purposes of, say, ballistics they have to make four. But if the sort of world that I am afraid of arrives, a world of two or three great superstates which are unable to conquer one another, two and two could become five if the fuhrer wished it.1 That, so far as I can see, is the direction in which we are actually moving, though, of course, the process is reversible.

      • This seems to parallel Russia’s activity with Cuba back in the day.

        How can it be that Japan buys 3 of the 5 islands, and then gets to nationalize them? When did that become the norm? Sovereignty isn’t for sale is it?

        If I’m China/Taiwan I’m thinking that down the road, those Islands might become heavily militarized, so I’m getting out in front of this now.

        When will Japan say: “Yankees go home!” The Americans really are the new Soviets, and they are way out on a limb about it. They look like assholes. Brutalizing puppeteers of Japan, Korea, and the Philippines.

        Kudos to Taiwan for sending the Yanks down to Clark AFB and out of Taichung after Vietnam and then evicting the rest and normalizing relations with China a few years after.

        Britain keeps up a far more convincing show of respecting local authority and that former colonies are in the commonwealth voluntarily. They seem much more civilized and run their Commonwealth with low key secret agreements between industry, politicians, and “gentlemen of note”.

        UK brains have the capacity to think like their colonists, which puts them leagues ahead of their dimwitted American bully allies. America’s leaders seem able to fool the American people all of the time, but the rest of the world, almost none of the time.

        • Dear Tor,

          You are dead right.

          One of the few US MSM channels to issue truthful reports on the Diaoyutai Islands conflict, is Forbes magazine. It has run a number of articles confirming that the US and Japan have conspired to deprive China of what is rightfully Chinese territory.

          Forbes interviewed a respected Japanese historian who confirmed that Japan simply has no claim to the islands, which clearly belong to China.

          Japan and U.S. Ignored Chinese Signals and History, Blundering into the Senkaku/Diaoyu Crisis
          http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenharner/2013/02/20/japan-and-u-s-ignored-chinese-signals-and-history-blundering-into-the-senkakudiaoyu-crisis/

          According to Yabuki Susumu (矢吹晋), professor emeritus of Yokohama City University, one of Japan’s most eminent China scholars,

          1. The Japanese position on the Senkaku/Diaoyu issue is indefensible on several counts, including most fundamentally Japan’s unconditional acceptance of the terms of the Potsdam Declaration (which required the return of all territories “stolen” from China).

          2. The Meiji government’s annexation of the Ryuku Islands (theretofore an autonomous kingdom) in January 1885, within which the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands were identified, followed three months later by the Qing Dynasty’s surrender of Taiwan and the Pescadores to Japan in the Treaty of Shimonoseki (ending the Sino-Japanese War) are both mooted by the terms of Potsdam. The islands were and are clearly part of Taiwan, which in addition has the most legitimate claim to continuous use/occupation.

          3. The Japanese position that Senkaku/Diaoyu is part of Japanese territory because it was awarded to Japan by the U.S. in the Okinawa Reversion agreement of 1971 is similarly contrary to fact. The U.S. awarded to Japan only administrative authority over the islands, not sovereignty. Sovereignty was specifically not transferred. The U.S. continued to maintain was undetermined between the three claimants and would only be determined through discussion and agreement. (As I noted in the last post, the Obama administration–in a monumental blunder–effectively changed this policy by failing to object to and stop Japanese “nationalization.”)

          4. Japanese policy–and particularly public misunderstanding–has been based on the false assertion, uttered by then foreign minister Fukuda Takeo in testimony to the Upper House of Diet on December 15, 1971 that Okinawa Reversion had accomplished the restoration of Japanese sovereignty over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands. Whether Fukuda misunderstood the issue, or intended to deliberately deceive the country through this testimony is unclear.

          5. The Chinese position on handling the territorial issue was, before Japanese “nationalization,” grounded on the 1972 agreement between Prime Minister Tanaka Kakue-Premier Zhou Enlai, when the terms of Japan-China diplomatic relations were determined, to “shelve” the issue–i.e., to avoid any acts that sought to enforce one side’s claim to sovereignty.

          6, Yabuki cites his own research and authoritative third party sources to charge that the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs removed from official transcripts of the Tanaka-Zhou discussions that agreement to “shelve” the issue, allowing future Japanese governments to fraudulently claim that the issue was not discussed and that China asserted a claim over the islands.

          7, Under the circumstances above, the decision of the Noda government to “nationalize” the islands was a grave provocation, a fundamental change in the status quo, tantamount from the Chinese point of view to aggression and forceful annexation of Chinese territory. An equivalently forceful Chinese response to “balance” the level of its sovereign claim was inevitable.

          • Thanks Bevin. Forbes does gather a lot of valuable data and inform the reader. It’s fairly easy to strip the BS from their articles and make them usable.

            61st Highest Grossing Movie in the World:
            The Hunger Games LGF
            $691.2 billion. 41% revenue is non-US.

            Catching Fire World Gross. $422 Billion,

            Who is “The Capitol” in the Hunger Games
            US? UK? The Vatican?

            The movie is a powerful indictment of world Capitols in general, really. Viva la districts. Viva la rebellious people.

            Hawaii Independence Blog
            http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/

            20 years ago President Clinton signed the “Apology Bill” regarding the Unites States’ illegal invasion of the internationally recognized Hawaiian Kingdom and overthrow of its lawful government.

            Hawai`i Independent & Sovereign
            http://www.hawaii-nation.org/

            “The United States is just – a land of liberty. The people there are friends – great friends of the weak. We love our country, our Hawai’i, and pray that they do not take it from us.” Emma Nawahi – 1897

      • MuriKa looks hopeless, Bevin. I expect the world will soon throw out the American babies with the Yankee bathwater. So many psyops within psyops. Good riddance to it all.

        Mi nombre es Toro. Yo soy Norte Mexicano.

        Showing the G.I. Joker the door is a slow process. Look how long it took for China to get Britain out of Hong Kong. Years and years of dire predictions, justifications, and fake journalism for keeping the statist quo.

        But now the Brits are out and I imagine China is much better off without them.

        Would that same strategy can work for Japan, S. Korea, the Philippines, Hawaii and the pacific islands?

        Yanqui go home! – Ali Primera – Gringo go home!
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXvPMukLe68

        Should Hong Kong to Return to British Rule?
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6i2M_7Qj84

    • My sister’s mother-in-law passed the same way; in animalistic, grunting agony from advanced cancer.
      I gave her several ways to end it with very little suspicion of wrong-doing; but she couldn’t muster the guts, as she has three children.

      But I’d do it for my parents. Fuck the government, fuck the passive-aggressive little “moralists” who impose on someone’s self-ownership.

      Because this spacesuit I’m wearing–this Earth-bound shell, which serves me well and I am quite fond of–will one day wear out or become mortally wounded or ill. And it’s MY spacesuit–when the time comes to dispose of it, I shall do so in the manner of my choosing.

      Thanks for that Dave Barry article. Really brought the point home; I’d forgotten how strongly I feel on the issue.

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