Orange Man Lobs One at Tesla

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The Orange Man didn’t just kill an Iranian general last week. He may also have killed Tesla.

And not just Tesla.

This runs counter to the reports of Tesla selling more cars in the last quarter of 2019 than it ever sold before – which it did. But only because the federal government has been paying people to buy them.

Not anymore.

The president kiboshed a much-lobbied-for “extension” of the $7,500 kickback to electric car buyers that – up to the stroke of midnight on New Year’s Eve – has been perpetuating the fiction that there is a market for electric cars.

The kickback transformed a $40,000 Tesla Model 3 into a $32,500 Model 3.

Which made it seem cost-competitive with an otherwise similar non-electric compact luxury-sport sedan, such as an Audi A3 ($33,500) and a deal compared with a $40k A4. Discount any car by almost $8k – and let’s not forget the tax-free (and often just free electricity) that electric car owners enjoy at the expense of the rest of us – and it’s no wonder they “sell.”

But without the $7,500 five-fingered discount – which expired along with 2019, courtesy of the Orange Man –  the Tesla3 becomes the equivalent of spending three dollars for six ounces of warm Coke that takes five hours to chill. As opposed to 75 cents for 12 ice-cold ounces right now.

And that’s why so many “buyers” made off with a $32,500 Tesla 3  . . . before it turned into a $40,000 Model 3.

Which is actually more like a $50,000 Model 3.

That’s what most of these things actually “sell” for  . . . when equipped with a battery that can propel them for more than 220 miles, the best-case range of the $40k model with the standard battery.

Similarly the Nissan Leaf – the most “affordable” electric car you can buy. It’s only $30k – without the five fingered discount. But it only goes 150 miles. If you want more range – 226 miles – the Leaf’s price rises to $36,550.

Without the five-fingered discount.

This is another EV obnoxiousness. Electric cars are almost always presented to the public in their maximum range  – and lowest cost –  configuration. Which, given the importance of range to usefulness, is like advertising a non-electric car’s cost without a heater.

One that adds a few thousand bucks to the car’s actual price – assuming you prefer not to freeze to death.

Also: An electric car that can only go 220 or so miles is not the same animal as a non-electric car that only goes 220 or so miles – though there aren’t any such. Even a 13 MPG (and 797 horsepower) Dodge Challenger Hellcat Redeye with a leaking gas tank can go farther than 220 miles . . . without paying extra.

But even if it couldn’t go farther than 100 miles, the Hellcat’s range isn’t an issue because if it runs out of gas, it’s not a big ordeal to put some more gas into it. If an EV runs of juice, you have to bring it to the electricity  . . . via a tow truck.

Running low on juice also entails running out of time – which you can’t recover.

An EV’s touted best-case range really isn’t even that because of the risk of running low, which will leave you stuck even if you do make it to where the electricity is.

Which means that in order to have an EV that’s viable for more than second-car/short-hop use, you have to buy the optional battery – which turns the $40k Tesla 3 into a $47,990 Model 3 (without the five-fingered discount). And even then, you still only get a best-case range of about 300 miles.

If you don’t use the heater, AC – or Ludicrous Speed – too much.

This is going to make “selling” Teslas a lot harder in 2020. And not just Teslas, which mainly appeal to affluent virtue-signalers who want to be seen driving an EV – but don’t want to drive a slow EV.

Or one without the status of a Tesla.

Models like the Leaf – which don’t even have Ludicrous Speed in their favor – just became a lot more . . . ludicrous. It’s one thing to spend – effectively – $22,500 on a base-battery and 150 mile best-case-range Nissan Leaf, the price of the thing after the five-fingered discount. It’s something else to spend $30k on the thing (the cost without the five-fingered discount) when you can buy a non-electric Versa that’s basically the same thing just without the batteries and with a 300-plus mile standard range that costs less than half as much (about $15k – no five-fingered discount required).

Same goes for the other non-Teslas on the market like the 2020 Chevy Bolt, which at least doesn’t cost more to go farther than 220 miles (it comes standard with a stronger battery and 259 miles of advertised range).

But it also comes standard with a $36,620 base price – which is now actually $36,620 rather than $29,120  – the price to the buyer after the five-fingered discount, no longer offered.

Courtesy of the Orange Man.

Which could put the kibosh on electric cars, generally. If the kibosh isn’t put on the Orange Man first.

. . .

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  1. Ha! See? It has nothing to do with who’s in office- They’re all just obeying their masters…

    Just heard that the Chinese gov’t is also eliminating their subsidy for EVs……

    There is a de facto world government already in place; and it is utterly ridiculous to think that some college students, welfare recipients and plumbers casting their votes every four years is having any effect on or say over a world superpower. All of these governments are controlled from the trop, down…not t’other way ’round.

    tl;dr: The Chinks are ditching EV subsidies too.

    • To clarify- just in case anyone doesn’t get it: Getting rid of the EV subsidy here is not something Orange Man just decided to do on his own. States are increasing EV registration fees; and now even communist governments, like the Chinese, are ending their subsidies too. Apparently, the EVs have served their purpose- which was likely that of shaking up and consolidating the auto industry- as now that many manufucturers have converted to making at least some, if not all of their vehicles EVs, there will likely be a lot of car company bankruptcies in the very near future.

      Without a suitable infrastructure for EVs (much less self-driving cars!) surely, as I’ve long maintained, this was an idea which was designed from the start to fail- at least for it’s stated overt purpose….but not for it’s covert purpose- which has likely been achieved.

      • Morning, Nunz!

        I like your theory but it has a flaw. This thing is a religious movement – a fanatical religious movement – and it has taken on a life of its own. It will not stop until the primary dogma of the cult – “climate change” – is vitiated. Which brings up another interesting thing. We are just nine years away from The End of The Word… so saith the dogma. 2030 being the year of Doom.

        But what happens when we get to say 2025 … and 2028 … and things are more or less the same as far as the “climate” is concerned? Sea levels not having risen appreciably. Beachside development continuing apace. What then?

        Will the lemmings hurl themselves over the cliff in a great death dive? Here’s hoping…

        • Hi Ya Eric!

          Ah, but remember- this “environmentalism”, while indeed being pushed as a religion, is in fact a red herring; It is just the method being used to destroy Capitalism, and national sovereignty. And I’m not saying that it is by any means over- but likely, the EV thing is either being delayed, or abandoned.

          Remember the recent past: Agenda 2000: Many of it’s initiatives were abandoned; some for good, some to be recycled/tweaked later, as part of Agenda 21….some of whose initiatives were also abandoned or delayed- in both cases because their plans could not be implemented as quickly and thoroughly as they had hoped, so the time frame had to be extended; adjustments had to be made as various schemes were tried and did not achieve the desired results, etc. Or…maybe in true Hegelian fashion, they just over-state their objects, so that when what they really intend is implemented, we think “we’ve won a victory”. I mean, after all, why would they lay their hand bare for all to see in black and white? It it’s laid out clearly in black and white for all to see, then it ISN’T their true agenda.

          Tricky stuff, this world domination stuff. Who’d have thunk it? 😉

          But no, we’re not really getting a reprieve. Fortunes have been changed; the markets have been changed, unnaturally; more of our money has been taken and redistributed; palms have been greased, and lots more….and there will likely be moire iterations to come- but all I’m trying to do is to point out that (unfortunately) Trump is not bucking the system and somehow fighting the good fight for the free market, and staving-off the globalists. He’s just doing what the real rulers have apparently decreed.

          Who knows, maybe with current ICE casrs being economically unsustainable past warranty expiration; EVs likely disappearing/no infrastructure being forthcoming; and many auto manufacturers likely to disappear due to throwing all or a large part of their buy-ness into the EV market, it may be that enough has been done already to get a large segment of the population out of personal transportation in the next few years, if only because viable used cars will be so rare.

          THAT my friend, may be the objective that has already been reached. We don’t need everyone running around in EVs, and the requisite infrastructure to support it, in order to destroy personal transportation…then only have to then destroy the EV ecosystem in-turn. The damage has already likely been done.

          And remember, environaziism is not the religion of the elite; it is just what is being pushed to the people, as the ostensible reason for the diabolical things which are being done.

          • Amen, Nunz… I wish I’d learned to fly. I wish I had a fast, low-altitude personal jet I could run at treetop level at .96 Mach… when the time comes.

              • Nunz, I loved those boxes he got via rural delivery. He’d keep pulling stuff out until he had some huge dellio. I’d like to get one of those boxes.

                Seriously, the goal of all this shit is being done by the plutocracy of the world. It’s a dead end game in the end.

                Here’s why. That personality can team up with others as powerful for only so long. It’s their psychology that’s going to be their undoing. You get down to 40 people running the whole world but that’s really not good enough for that type of person. They all see themselves as eventually the last guy, the last one on top of the entire world.

                Let’s hope it comes sooner than later. The more acolytes people like the Rothschilds and Rockefellers have, the larger their army they can throw at each other.

                There was a point before the 19th century when only religion could work up the zeal in enough people to have great wars. I’d like to think I caught onto the lie during Vietnam.

                • Oh, man, 8! I’d kill for one’a them Acme boxes! No wonder Sears is going under- how could they possibly compete with Acme?!

                  Bugs Bunny must’ve been a real alchemist though- he could just pull stuff out of thin air- when he wasn’t busy cross-dressing!

                  You’re exactly right though, about the olivegarbs- that’s why the Bible says this final empire will be VERY brief- it won’t hold together, not only because of what ya say (which is very true) but because it is made of “partly iron and partly clay…”- What they have had to do to society to let things get to this point- i.e. destroying the most functional cultures, and “diversifying” the nations with savages, while destroying the values that once made these nations strong and great, will guarantee a huge dissemination of weak, non-cohesive dysfunctional people across the continents- and what good is that? It’s like being the ruler of a prison- you can control the inmates by force and brutality….but nothing good is ever going to come of it; being a warden may make the warden feel more powerful than the manager of The Plaza Hotel….but his product can never compare to that of The Plaza, or even to a Motel 6- and the prison inmates will never be a millionth as productive as even one Plaza guest.

                  The people who are running the show think more highly of themselves then they ought; they forget that they are nothing but criminals and utter scum- who should be in the prison, instead of running it.

                  This will be their last hurrah. Man has had his time, and he always tries to build empires and rule the world. We are at the end. God said the alotted time will run out in these days, and He will put an end to this crapola for good; man’s reign will end; God’s reign on earth will begin! (And instead of libraries full of laws that men have made, God only has about 600 laws…and most of ’em only apply to specific circumstances/people. We will finally have LIBERTY!)

                  • N•eg•ation. Unfixed it for ya. Your vasectomy has been reversed. Go forth & propagate likewise. And wear boxers, not briefs, & especially not very briefs. Lol…

                    • Well, that’s pretty chuckley.

                      Jason always mindsprings the Argonauts, which flipsides the Ahabs & the Mobynots – the far, far thicker side of the coin — & from there who can forget me not that Melville got paid squat…& hadda’ hang up the smithin’…& not only that & worse, went to “work” for the state as a “law enforcer.”

                      And he’s right about all the cannibals of “the jews.”

                      That’s an ollllld “me too” bandwagon chuckwagon.

                      Those tags been hashed a long time cuz hashed tags is fecund prolific reproducing memes o’ weebles.

                      But being right, or even awesome, like Melville, ain’t necessarily, nor even usually, golden fleece. As all honest artists know & tell.

                      Not unoften being right’s Cassandra rags vis a vis the swarming Linus blankey scapegoaters.

                      And all such latter day taints – like Bartelby, but in a different way – would “prefer not to” use their brains honestly.

                      Except, of course, preference has nothing to do with it. A creature is what it is, not what it chooses to be.

                      Drops of Jewpiter

                      No such thing as tough…there’s trained…& there’s untrained…but don’t not account for, don’t fail to double-entry the books, the uneducable cuz that’s what clayfoots all those leaning towers (like I said, don’t wear briefs, let alone very briefs; commando code’s the way to hotrod Lincolns…) trained seals of approving disapproval :

                    • Holy crud, Jason!
                      ROTFLMAO!!!!!! -Cats that look like Hitler! Now that’s funny!

                      I actually had an outside cat that could fit that bill- but he disappeared. Maybe I should check Argentina?

                      I just love the Antisemite Sam (Far as I know, I invented that) ’cause of the play on words; so easy to make Yosemite into Antisemite (I’ve always pronounced Yosemite: “Yoss-seh-might”)

                  • Nunz, I’m not religious but I think what you say could be very prescient. I don’t see it going on for a hundred years. Not even 5 years.

                    We’re about to hit that brick wall. I’ll definitely be on one side and woe to those on the other.

                    • Yep, Eight! I know how it’ll turn out…and even if I didn’t, I’d rather be on the losing side, than on the evil side, ’cause who wants to live in a world where evil has won? (It’s gotten pretty far already, and it sucks so far!)

          • Hi Nunz & Eric, I like the image of these enviro cultists jumping off a cliff, wish they’d just do it and stfu! They won’t be satisfied until we all go back to living in caves while wearing sackcloth and ashes, they are the very definition of Lenin’s “useful idiots”. The fires in Australia have probably put more actual pollution into the air than the last 10 years worth of IC cars worldwide (of course EV cars don’t pollute because all the power plants that charge them run on fairy dust). Just saw an article saying the (stock)market value of Tesla now exceeds that of Ford and GM combined; I need a drink!

    • The reason there is so much politics on this site is that there are a lot of politics in cars. Beaureaucrats and regulators are responsible for increasing the cost of a modern automobile by about $5000 conservatively. you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you.

    • Hi Techie,

      Indeed. But it’s become impossible to not talk about politics while talking about cars. I’ve been doing this for 25-plus years and – believe me – I’d like to just talk about cars.

      But the Clovers won’t let me!

      • Yes, when they start making real cars again, we will talk more about cars again. For now, the politics seems to lean toward not making real cars anymore. I hope Orange Man stands his ground on this one when the SJW mobs inevitably swarm the lobbyists to go after him for taking away this insane discount on EVs.

        • Heck, Mark, even if they started making real cars again, where could we drive them? So many laws, checkpoints, radar traps, reduced speed limits; cameras, pigs in SUVs, etc. etc. waiting to throw you in jail, take your license, blow-up your insurance, confiscate your vehicle and money, etc. etc. it’s getting to the point where soon people are going to out for a drive and just “disappear”- never be heard from again.

          They’re taking all the joy out driving…and living!

    • Cars? How much can ya say about cars? ‘Specially now-a-days with new cars sucking so much. I think of this as a Libertarian site for car people.

      • Good point.

        I used to be able to tell the make, model, trim level and year of almost any car at a glance. Now, I am hard pressed to discern if it is a Asian, European or North American brand without seeing the badge.

        I also used to be able to look at an engine and tell you what it was. Now? What engine? That thing under the plastic housing?

        It might just be that I am an old curmudgeon, but yeah, cars today suck. Not because they are bad, they are pretty fantastic technology wise, but because they are soulless, computer derived appliances. No man (or woman) created them. Cars were art, now they aren’t.

        • Yeah, Anon. WE used to control cars and get feedback from them. Now they control and prod us…and we just give them a little feedback.

          Being surrounded by plastic, whether you’re sitting in a $13 Mitsubishit or or $100K Whatever….. I miss real metal and vent windurs!

          • I started out on GO-carts, Oddyssys, 50cc then 250cc bikes. That childhood feeling of controlling machinery and the accompanying adrenaline rush was a life experience I treasure.

            Now I am the grey hair, I lament that the youth of today will never know that freedom, or even know they are missing it.

            Even my nephew would rather play Forza than drive uncles buggy around the field.

            • Hi Anonymous,

              Similar experiences here. Some kids today are experiencing the same, but it’s much less common if my sense of things is accurate. The Safety Cult has had a great deal to do with this winnowing – directly and indirectly. “Moms” are now politically influential, even dominant. Hyper-regulation abounds. The activities we used to just do are more expensive and more hassle. Just riding a dirt bike around suburbia now can trigger a Hut! Hut! Hutting!

              • One can effect common sense in this cop/kids/bike thing if they just get involved. I know, hard to do.
                I am a passionate off-road guy and invested mucho time in teaching kids how to ride, keeping them away from xbox. Many of them compete now. They also have learned many good attributes like wrenching, it’s hard to do things right, preparation, etc….
                One day I saw our local cops ogling over a couple new ATVs and trailer that a local rich guy bought the police. I asked what they were for. I was told to police the more remote parts of our town to stop trespassing, obviously on the rich guys property, but elsewhere I;m sure as well.
                I met with the Chief and explained to him that he will not be chasing kids on bikes and why it was very dangerous and not smart. He thought about it for a while and agreed. He actually came out with a public statement later that said the ATV’s will only be used for search and rescue.
                It also didn’t occur to him that he would have had to buy boatloads of proper gear or the cops would easily get hurt and then go on disability (more cost).
                You can effect good change with reason and facts sometimes.

                  • It’s sad to me that you think that way. The large majority of cops I know are good guys. Probably the same percentage as non-cops.

                    • Good how? Where?

                      Do you accompany them on their daily duties?

                      As for “Probably the same percentage as non-cops”, very doubtful. The ability to hide behind a gun and a badge attracts a certain kind.

                    • Hi Chris,

                      This business with cops is a problem for decent people because they are now “law enforcement” (aka armed government workers). They no longer “protect and serve.” They enforce laws – any law. Because it is the law. This runs contrary to the idea of keeping the peace that no reasonable person can take issue with. And it encourages reasonable people to avoid having anything to do with “law enforcement.”

                      It is telling that people who in better times didn’t hate cops – who in better times weren’t fundamentally loathsome – or at least did some good – now do loathe them, because almost all of what they do is loathsome.

                    • Hi Chris,

                      “The large majority of cops I know are good guys”.

                      Sure, many of them are “good guys” at a personal level, but the job itself requires the violation of rights, which is intrinsically immoral. Much of what they do, if done by a “mere mundane”, would be considered unambiguously immoral and illegal. For instance, you don’t have the right to break into someone’s house, arrest him for smoking dope and then kidnap him and put him in a cage. The supposed justification for political authority is derived from the “consent of the governed” and the “delegation of authority”. It should be obvious that if one cannot withhold consent, one cannot grant it. It should also be obvious that one cannot delegate an authority that one does not possess. Sure, they may be “good guys” in private, but what they do is immoral, “political authority” cannot magically change an immoral act into a moral one.

                      Also, many of these “good guys” are wildly hypocritical as they will harm others for doing what they routinely do themselves, speed, smoke a little dope, drink a little too much, as defined by arbitrary statutes, before driving, etc… At the very least, all cops are in a state of cognitive dissonance because they believe that when they act objectively immorally, it is somehow not immoral.

                      Finally, the vast majority of cops defend even the most egregious actions of other cops, and will take the side of an obvious sociopath over the victim. Reflexively defending immorality, due to tribe loyalty, is immoral.

                      Kind Regards,

                    • You guys can have your opinions, and I can have mine. Many of the issues you state are of no fault of theirs.
                      My experience with 99% of cops on-duty or off-duty, relationships or none, has been good. My experience is from 40 years. And I have had many on-duty experiences, maybe 100. The only cop that crossed me I beat in court easily, defending myself no less.
                      Sorry your experiences have not been so good.
                      I will grant you that the system is bad, and some cops exploit that, but I believe it is rare and my experiences say the same.

                    • Chris,

                      Your experiences with cops has nothing to do with the morality of signing up for a job that REQUIRES the violation of other people’s rights, a decision that is 100% in their control. I’m glad your experience with cops has been mostly good, many people do not have such experiences and, the problem of police abuse is getting worse. Attitudes like yours, while understandable, effectively hide the transformation of cops from peace keepers to law enforcers. See the “Rise of the Warrior Cop”, by the excellent Radley Balko, for evidence of how dramatic this transformation has been.

                      I’ll ask a question, do you believe that most politicians are equally “good” and act primarily in the interests of others? If not, how can it be good to sign up for a job that enforces the will of these people?

                      Kind Regards,

                    • Jeremy, all great points! To add to that, right out of the starting gate cops are paid via armed robbery. It’s a classic protection racket not significantly different from those imposed by private-sector criminal gangs. That’s even before getting into the nature of people who tend to get into police work, especially these days, and whether they are “nice guys” – just to get paid they are holding people up at gunpoint.

                      “Your money or your life” does not become somehow morally acceptable simply because the criminal gang putting a gun to your head calls itself “government”.

                    • “Call me naive and ignorant if you want. I bet you would think different if we ever met vs blog posting.” Chris, you are naive and ignorant.

                    • Hi Chris,

                      “Jeremy, I do not believe that most politicians are equally “good” and act primarily in the interests of others”.

                      I suspected that you did not, that was the point of my rhetorical question. How can a “good” man sign up for a job that is primarily about enforcing the will of politicians? Most conservatives are highly skeptical about the morality and motives of politicians, yet they tend to either glorify or justify the actions of those who enforce their will. How does this make sense?

                      Kind Regards,

                    • Part of tribal bribery is elevation of “our” tribal members shinily contrasted with & by dehumanization of “other” tribal bribeds.

                      Thin blue line’s a tribe.

                      The people the bluebellies actually frontline are a tribe.

                      The mundanes is an umbrella tribe of various tribes.

                      The idea that morality is the same thing from tribe to tribe – between tribes — that it transfers from apples to oranges to… is a good ship lollipop notion (that even Shirley temple Black-ened outgrew).

                      Tribes are bribes are pernicious are ubiquitous.

                      Jeremiah Johnson, in that flick, had the right idea, & comported in accordance.

                      Cuz “cops” by whatever other noun, were just as bad in JJ’s day as in any other day. Temporal temporizing is shite.

                      Talk to any old timer from the rough side of the tracks if you can’t figure out manimal’s tribal stasis for yourself…or that the psyche profile of cops stood next to that of criminals don’t let a photon pass: they are the same people, just in different tribes\gangs.

                      Except official, with the costumes & all, gangsters got less guts, integrity.

                  • I’ll bet Chris loves “the troops” too…..

                    This is why we’ll never be free; and tyrants will never lack those who are willing to impose their will on their fellow countrymen at the point of a gun.

                    Chris obviously has no idea about even the most rudimentary tactics tuaght to and practiced by cops- things that would make a decent person walk out of the academy on the very first day.

                    Things like using the innocent words of innocent people to implicate them as guilty; asking questions in such a way so as to trick people out of their rights; outright lying to them (“If you don’t consent to a search, we will use that as evidence of reasonable suspicion to obtain a warrant”…). The constant lying they do; sticking up for and lying for each other to protect their “brethren” when they are caught doing wrong; the taking advantage of people who don’t know the law, or outright violation of the law (“You’re not allowed to video us”- then uses “disorderly conduct to arrest photographer); the lying to obtain warrants which goes on REGULARLY at every department [Lots of cops among my relatives]….how the state only hires idiots, misfits and PTSD’d bullies for the job (It has been established in several court cases that the tests police candidates are given are to ensure that their IQ is not TOO HIGH – usually 103 or lower- to ensure that they will act without conscience or thought and just follow orders mindlessly)…..etc. etc.

                    How they put the new young-punk trainees on the SWAT team right away, so that they can bust up people’s houses; shoot the pets; terrorize the residents…because such will emotionally invest them: After a few episodes of that, if they feel any pangs of conscience, they are forced to either quit and deal with what they’ve done…or,(more often) stay on and be convinced that what they are doing is “for the good guys” so that their conscience is soothed, and they are thus an instant member of the “brotherhood”, because it is all of the badged ones who “understand” and who will back them up and reassure them that what they are doing is “good” [puke!].

                    Not to even mention, as the others have said, the inherent immorality of following orders and enforcing the dictates of politicians, and violating the rights of those who have done no harm to others.

                    There are NO good cops anymore, just as there were no good Nazis. Heh, I saw a Youtube video recently, of some cop who became a Libertarian, and thought he could leave the big city and manage to still be a cop in a smaller place while not transgressing his conscience. He managed to last a few months….before the small sheriff’s office he then worked for noticed that he wasn’t writing traffic tickets, and when he would refuse to participate in drug busts. He had to quit.

                    Either Chris is very naive and ignorant of the practices of modern policing (even in the old days it was pretty bad…but not as bad as it is today)….or he’s never really thought of the moral implications of such authority and where it comes form…or is just immoral and does not uphold the rights of individuals to be left alone in so far as they are not committing a true crime against anyone- such as robbery, rape or murder. (Ironically, it is the politicians whom the pigs serve who are the real criminals- and the cops participate in their crimes).

                    • Jeremy, I do not believe that most politicians are equally “good” and act primarily in the interests of others? But I do believe that most cops do. Per my experiences anyway.
                      Nuzio: I disagree with almost everything you said above. Yes I have heard and read stories of such, but it hasn’t happened to me, nor do I know of anyone your stories have happened to. I’m sure it has happened and is happening more though. Call me naive and ignorant if you want. I bet you would think different if we ever met vs blog posting.

                    • Hi Chris,

                      About two years ago, I was out riding (motorcycles) with three friends on the Blue Ridge Parkway, speed limit 45 – us doing 54 or so. I was the last bike in the line. A Parkway AGW in an SUV appeared, coming at us in the opposite lane. We could easily have vanished in seconds, before the AGW could even have turned around. But we foolishly stopped, pulled over and waited for the AGW to turn around and “get” us. We figured – foolishly – that as 54 in a 45 is at worst a technical foul and no “threat” to anyone’s safety and given all of us are middle aged guys without criminal or even DMV records and that we stopped and waited when we easily could have just vanished – which the AGW had to know – that the AGW would look over our “papers,” give us a warning and let us proceed on our way.

                      Nope. We got the Hut! Hut! Hut! rigmarole – the jerkoff’s hand on his gun, ordering us to “remain on your bikes and not turn around.” We sat there for a good 45 minutes while this schmuck paraded his Authority and gave us each a $150 extortion note, plus DMV points.

                      I grant that not every AGW would have behaved this way. But this one did. I wouldn’t stop to piss on this guy, to put him out if someone lit him on fire.

                    • eric, “. I wouldn’t stop to piss on this guy, to put him out if someone lit him on fire.”
                      Lookout, soon you’ll be talking like a Texan.

                      You’ll have to stop when you respond to someone, spit it out, and continue in your normal voice.

                    • The only time I’ve had a shotgun against my head and threatened to blow it off was by a cop cause I wasn’t getting down fast enough.

                      My back was so fucked up I told him to go ahead. Cooler heads interjected and prevailed……obviously.

                    • Eric, re: pullover story:
                      a PA state cop most likely saved my sons life. I won’t tell the whole story cause it’s very long, but let’s just say my son was stopped doing way over ???mph very late at night on I80. The cop could have just given him a ticket or maybe even the slammer for that far over, but instead spent over 30 minutes with him, talked about life and made sure he was calmed down enough to continue on his sad journey. He did not get a ticket. I called the cop personally and thanked him.

                    • Chris,

                      Have you ever heard of “safety/DUI checkpoints”? Every pig who mans such a stop is doing something immoral and unconstitutional (and therefore illegal)- and the first thing they all do the people they stop at random is ask them “Where are you going and where did you come from?”

                      You don’t have a problem with those things? You think the pricks who do that are good people (And that happens tens of thousands of times per week all across this country)?

                      Ever hear of civil asset forfeiture? You think the pigs you know can just somehow opt out of that, and do?

                      Ever hear of Martin Tankleff? The 17 year-old kid who was falsely charged with the murder of both of his parents based on 6 words he said when interviewed by the pigs while he was hysterical after having found his parents dead; and for which he spent 17 years in jail before he was cleared of the false charges- while the detective who knew he was innocent retired to FL with a nice six-figure pension?

                      This stuff goes on thousands of times per day all across this country- and those of us who care are aware of it…but you aren’t.

                      And you are a perfect example why this not only cointinues, but gets exponentially worse- because you haven’t a clue of what really goes on; what they are taught at the academies; what their tactics are.

                      You also assume that some “special” men have a moral right to arbitrarily decide what is right or wrong; what is acceptable in someone else’s life and what is not; even what we may put in our bodies or how we raise our children, and that it is fine for some armed mercenary to enforce those rules one day at gunpoint when the “special” men sign a piece of paper making it “law”, or stop enforcing it when those men change the law-

                      Example: One day it is perfectly acceptable for a cop to do violence, commit theft, and cage someone for growing a plant; the next day, a “special” man (politician) scribbles his name on a piece of paper, and then suddenly it is not O-K for a cop in one state to do that…but fine for a cop in some other state to do it.

                      And that is what it comes down to: What is your standard of morality, and what gives you or anyone else the right to impose that standard on anyone else as long as they are not infringing on your basic rights to life and property?

                      A cop, like a soldier, just follows orders and enforces the will of some “special” men upon others- and 98% of the time, that will is unconstitutional and or immoral- but the cop doesn’t care- he is just paid to enforce that law- just like an SS officer in Germany; and just like the majority of Germans who thought the SS officers were “heroes”, and nice guys who were helping their country, so you think of the mercenary armed enforcers who are abusing the public of this country today.

                    • Tattoo on face: I am not naive & ignorant.

                      The power of words, to a – whoa! Dude might be Maori {that tongue-thing’d cinch it} — face•xponent.

                    • Blue Ridge Parkway…

                      Meet the revenew boss, same as the old.

                      Shake, shake, shake your booty, into my pocket, is a disco(lor o’ law) tune since way before KC & The Sunshine Band, & that disco ball’s been hung up in the firmament since one monkey said to the other monkey “he said,” pointing at ol’ sparkle orb, “for you to give me your share” (courtesy of Rust Cohle’s lines in True Detective).

                    • “This is why we can’t have nice things.”


                      No. Simpler than that. “We” is why nice things are rejected (cuz to soooo many, nuthin’s nicer than dissolving into “we” – despite all the evidence contrary).

                      “We” is the nice de résistance to vichy collaborators, when “winning” & when losing.

                      “We” is the pre&self-applied superglue to the starting blocks.

                      Bang! Race over.

                      Showing up’s 90%. Not supergluing’s the other 10.

                      Other than I•ndividual•’s, pronouns is pro neins.

                      Yes wo\man, each & every one, or SOP SNAFU (just say)yes(to)no wo\man…is the lopsided division.

                  • Chris…Poster in Fox Mulder’s office: a hovering 50’s Hollywood flying saucer & the words “I want to believe.”

                    Robert the Bruce character had same “nobility” scripted from his yap in Braveheart.

                • Not to mention “changes” that can be effected with bribes. Guess rich man calc’d it’d be cheaper to bribe cops than pay “private” (market) security. Plus there can be a hole bonus batter to donuttin’ cops. The quid pro cui bono don’t fall too far from the treed.

            • It’s sad. When I was a kid, driving anything was a priority- I’d kill for the chance just to operate a riding mower or Briggs & Stratton powered minibike! I always had my trusty bicycle- and when I couldn’t go outside, I had my Matchbox cars.

              It truly disgusts me to see parents today shoving electronics in front of their sprogs from the time they’re toddlers. Between that and the police state we all now live in, full of busybodies and safety-nazis….kids can’t be kids anymore- and being kids was the primary way we learned about physics and how the real-world works- and matured.

              Hmmmm…and now we 30 year-old man-children who live with their parents….. Wonder why?

              And what they’re missing when children, can never be regained later, because we can never have that level of energy and wonder and enthusiasm and innocence again after those early years.

              • I wonder how many people remember using skates. I removed lots of skin on sidewalks and tore lots of clothes but it didn’t bother me.

                That was back when skating rinks were replete. At the big ones the girls always tried to look graceful and not bust their ass. The boys never stopped inventing games that were all speed related and commonly rough. Safety equipment was getting your hands out in front when you went down and having eyes in the back of your head. If I’d only had rearview mirrors on my shades….

                • Cherry Hill. Edmunds WA. 2nd grade. Pre-urethane wheels skateboard, & a dare. Cue Wipeout. Wasn’t the first, or last.

                  (Just pulled up googmaps to sightsee memory lane. That cued wipeout for this old xp os – which ain’t to blame, as I see it.)

              • “because we can never have that level of energy and wonder and enthusiasm and innocence again”

                Exactly. I now have enough cash to by all the things I wanted when I was a kid, like RC cars, planes and helicopters. I don’t because I am old and the appeal is no longer there.

                Youth is wasted on the young and wealth is wasted on the old.

                • Ha! Ain’t THAT the truth, Anon! How many times have I said: “How often would I use it? It would be fun the first time or two…then it’s just another motor to maintain; another battery to replace every few years; and I’d end up selling it.”?

                  ‘Least I do get to mess with tractors and commercial-grade mowers and stuff…and guns…and drive cool (to me) 4×4 trucks- that keeps the kid in me alive, and prevents me from being old and stodgy. And I do still enjoy those things as much as I might have when I was 12….I mean, I’ll mow off 6 or 7 acres as a lawn in the summer whilst listening to my mp3 player…and it’s just pure bliss!

                  When I was younger, I was afraid that at some point I I might get to where I’d be content to drive mere cars and seek a “low-maintenance” lifestyle, as I’d seen happen to other guys around middle age- give or take….but that goodness, it ain’t happened yet…and I don’t think it will.

                  Hey, the guy I used to buy cows from in his early 80’s and still does…errr…actually…more than I do!

                  • Hi Nunz, I’d never admit it to my bosses but I actually enjoyed using a bucket truck for most of my career, plus it came in handy for trimming trees and such around the house. At least it did until the company installed GPS trackers a few years before I retired, then it became a game to outwit them but they were checked periodically for tampering. Found out from my buddies still working there that they recently installed them in the supervisor’s cars as well. Big Brother is your constant companion.

                    • Hey Mike!

                      Oy! GPS! Glad that I was able to get out of civilization before that took over! (It was close!)- It’s just crazy how micro-managed everything is…and how society has accepted it.

                      Hey, I wish I had a bucket truck! That’d come in handy for so many things (Would’ve been really nice when I was building my garage and putting up the 24′ roof trusses single-handedly!)

                      Ironically, I’ve sold bucket trucks for a client/friend…remotely though- a few of ’em even came from your neck o’the woods.

                      Keep fighting the good fight, my friend!

                    • Fortunately there are too many little brothers for Big to keep track of without a platoon of poorly trained and equipped liars and murderers to contain.

              • Nunz, it gets worse. A young friend’s kids always loved me and couldn’t wait to see me. The youngest would see me and smile and make some noises and raise her arms.

                At 18 months her mother dutifully(her husband knows more about it than she)took her for her vaccinations. Now she doesn’t meet your eye, speak or respond and lives in some retarded world of autism where she has no friends and takes no pleasures it seems. Breaks my heart.

              • The soft underbelly of the wonder years is naïveté. Nothing is free, there is no risk free rate, & the flip side doesn’t quit because ignored.

            • Skates & boards, bicycles, Briggs & Stratton minibikes, 125cc 2-strokes, 750 4-stroke, & all kinda’ cars & trucks.

              But control, truly – & marvelous tho it feels – is just a feeling, a user illusion that all too often misuses, which is to say is misused by, the user.

              “The flow zone” can be the other side the door o’ perception the poet wrote about & the band with the crappy lyrics & singer borrowed the name of.

              When I went thru that door I didn’t have to remember what the dormouse said, cuz the feed was enveloping & undeniable: I wasn’t doing, I was just “part&parcel” (that’s just the old discontinuity speak) of the continuous doing•moving – not a discontinuous doer•mover — & “everything” was moving simultaneously.

              Dardik, who I’m reading now, makes case that movement is, just is, that discontinuous “things” – nonexistent – don’t move. Waves waving “simultaneously” across scales make the particles that the puzzle hypothesizers take for granted as discrete, discontinuous, boundaried, albeit “duality’d to hedge the a priori assumptions that don’t work, are incorrect – & “moving.” Whole thing, could say, is the difference between Roadrunner, & Wiley Coyote.

              • That is true, Ozy!

                You don’t need a $200K boat and all the associated expense and work, to enjoy a day on the water. Just thinking about it, can be not only as good…but even better- and without all of the detriments!

                Ditto women or most other things for that matter. In fact, if one is realistic, after thinking enough about the things they may desire or lust after….they often find that there is not as much to the objects of their desires as they may have initially thought.

                Gimme a quiet place to live in the country where my time is my own and I am free….and really, I have everything. Everything else in the physical realm is really just a needless distraction, compromise or enslavement.

                Time and a clear mind…that’s where it’s at!

        • Form follows function. For most of us here, that function was to get from point A to point B. Sometimes it was to do it modestly and efficiently, and sometimes it was to do it flashy and fast. Most often our function was to look good, enjoy driving, and not go broke in the process.
          Today’s automotive functions neither seem affordable, nor enjoyable. Virtue signalling, and being a safety Nazi seem to be all to high on the priority list of the modern automotive function, and it seeps into the persona of the driving public all too easily.VA Governor CoonFace appears to personify the 2 major social lies being used to manipulate the public. 1) the “war on gun violence”
          2) the “fight against climate change” presumably man-made. These are but 2 of the many other myths and fears in the bag of propaganda used to control society from virtually every angle now. Globalization/world-communism is high on the priority list for many of those in power today, regardless of party persuasion. White collar crime pays more now than it ever did before, and with open assaults on the 2A, as well as the rest of the Bill of Rights, it has become more akin to open acts of treason on the part of the very establishment that was originally only empowered to to protect the very same Rights.
          Now, see how easily the talk of cars can turn to politics? I’ve even done it myself, and I begin to wonder why. Well, the answer isn’t that hard to guess. When nearly every aspect of life that most of us grew up with is currently being used to some political end, it becomes obvious, and rather discouraging. I have not “thrown in the towel”, as they say, but the game may be breaking down my front door any day now, too. I continue to help my fellow man, customers, etc, but the pace is getting more tiresome, and I’m not getting any younger. There are certainly times when I evaluate the quality of my life, and the quantity/longevity seems of little importance at times. While not suicidal, my lust for jumping in and doing battle certainly has waned considerably. Let’s hope we all get our “second-wind” soon, lol!

  2. Reading the comments deploring the hit on the #1 terrorist in the world appears more like a page out of the TDS media hacks of the alphabet soup stations of ABC,NBC,CBS,PBS,NPR,MSNBC,CNN. Better go to your mommies basement and have a good cry. Islamic radicals only respect force; nothing less. Thomas Jefferson discovered it over 200 years ago with the Islamic Tripoli pirates; it’s time people wake up to these barbarians; not coddle them. Good riddance to Soliemani and God bless President Trump for having the cahones to be the leader we need; the simpletons who are weeping and gnashing their teeth at someone who puts America and Americans first don’t belong in the U.S.; you can take your whiny sniveling selves along with the leftist Democrats running for president and move to Venezuela where you can fight over toilet paper; forget about food.

    Only brain dead liberals would believe that Trump is a dictator for taking charge and doing what our nation should have done years ago; lead; not follow and by doing so with his policies are returning power to the people; whereas the Democrats and RINO’s seek to consolidate it with an ever expanding government. To hell with you.

    • I was going to write a detailed reply. Then I realized it would be wasted on the like of you.

      Fuck off you cunt, seems a more appropriate response.

      • Same here, Anon.

        What’s with all of the frickin’ statists on this site lately? It’s sad when the love of Big Brother is alive and well….even on a great site like this.

        “We’ve” been effing with these countries for almost a century now- for Israel, and oil- ….but they’re the “terrorists”, and we can just go and murder them at will, even though they’ve never done a thing to us…but we’ve toppled their government; invaded their land; helped their enemies…?

        There’s no hope for these people.

    • Ed,

      “God bless President Trump for having the cahones to be the leader we need; the simpletons who are weeping and gnashing their teeth at someone who puts America and Americans first don’t belong in the U.S”.

      As Randolph Bourne noted, “war is the health of the State”. If you believe that US foreign policy, which is aimed at global Hegemony, puts “America and Americans first”, you are the one who is brain dead. Nothing produces “ever expanding government” more than perpetual war. “Limited government” and war are incompatible. Conservatives, until they were overrun by radical, leftist Trotskyites (neocons), understood this. Historically, the progressive left championed war because they correctly understood the relationship between war and the expansion of State power. Conservatives once resisted this. Modern conservatism is a bastard hybrid of the progressive fantasy that “experts” like themselves could perfect the world, and belligerent nationalism.

      “But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force…. She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit….” – John Adams

      You have far more in common with Woodrow Wilson than Adams or Jefferson.


      • Hi Jeremy,

        The thing which disturbs me the most in re Iran is that it’s a replay of the “WMD” hoax of 17 years ago. You’d think – after that – people might be skeptical about what these war-priapic politicians claim. And perhaps be suspicious of the timing. Orange Man is politically beleaguered – Look over there! Iranians! Enemies of Freedom!


        Also, while I don’t deny for a minute that this Iranian general was a thug, consider the following:

        Imagine the Iraqis flew a drone into Texas to wreak vengeance upon The Chimp – another thug and far worse, as he led an aggressive war based on a lie against a country which had not attacked America that killed tens of thousands of people and destabilized an entire region. If America was justified in “taking out” the general, why wouldn’t the Iraqis be justified in “taking out” The Chimp?

        And how would America react to this act of war?

        • The problem is, with this sort of thing you never really know what the truth is. Trump has said he was trying to stop a war, not start one, which given however-you-spell-is-name’s previous MO is not as far-fetched as it sounds.

          I’m absolutely not in favor of a war here, firstly because I’m in the age bracket that would get drafted first, and second because I know that most of the people of Iran – who would end up hurt and deprived by such a war – are being held hostage by a government they hate but are not allowed to disagree with. When the chants of “Death to America!” go up, most of them are just mouthing along with their fingers crossed behind their backs.

        • “And how would America react to this act of war?”

          About half would be cheering and the other half enraged. Twitter would on fire. What else is new?

        • Team sports Eric.

          Just like any of the retard-ball fests, OUR TEAM IS THE GREATEST! (even when it obviously sucks)

          And the exceptionalism and hypocrisy are the same too. If we cheat, no big deal. If they cheat, they are the worst monsters to ever walk the earth.

          Seriously, I see zero difference between the chickenhawks calling for the annihilation of Iran for doing far less than the US does on a daily basis, and the sportsfans I know who worship a sports team, rationalizing every misdeed as OK why going hyperbolic if the team they don’t support does the same.

          The stupid have no concept of morals and fair play, they only understand winning or losing, no matter how it is achieved.

          • Imagine the outrage if Iran had used more than 12.5 tons of bombs on us in 3 years. Well, don’t try to hard because we both know the initial response but no the complete outcome. I don’t wanna find out.

            • I’m curious how the US would react if the JCoS, SOS, or VP were whacked by Iran. Pretty sure they all are “guilty” of the same evils presented as grounds for killing Soleimani.

              Oh, right, the US is “exceptional”. Massive fucking facepalm.

          • Those that learn from history will constantly be frustrated by those who refuse to.

            It is refusal too. Actively making a point of not examining the past as that might force reconsideration of their current position.

            As one idiot I know blurted exasperated and redfaced a while back, “I know I am right and nothing you show me will change my mind, so I won’t read that crap!”.

            Mystified by how someone could know it was “crap” without reading it. Special talent the truly moronic are blessed with I suppose.

        • Hi Eric,

          Well, considering that the US considers anyone who defends themselves against every US act of aggression to be a terrorist, they would probably kill a few hundred thousand Iranians and consider it a just and measured response.

          This is the US definition of terrorism,

          ‘… “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents’.

          Remove “subnational” and it’s a pretty good description of US foreign policy. “Subnational” and “non State actors” are used to shield the US from charges of terrorism. Of course, Suleimani was neither “subnational” nor a “clandestine agent”, but that doesn’t matter to the “exceptional Nation”.


      • Yeah, 8! At first I thought: “Oh, there’s our old friend “Ringmeat Mongoloid Dickweed Ed”….but a few seconds later, I’m like “Wait. This isn’t Ed; this is apparently ED”.

        • Nunz, no shit. I’d be crying my eyes out if I thought this was “Ed”. I do hope he’s doing well. He evidently checked out….of here. I hope it wasn’t a final checkout. We had lots of fun together. We were gonna live forever….think I’ve done that once before today.

          • Yeah 8, I think the real Ed got a little perturbed (at least partly at me- if not entirely) last time he was here, ages ago- but I don’t imagine he’d be so shallow as to let that keep him away so long. Hope he is O-K. I always enjoyed his participation.

            • Ed was in a bad wreck and was gone a long time and only came back to post a comment now and then. I hope he’s doing well but his left arm was permanently injured and now he has grandchildren to dote on. Good luck to him where ever he may be.

    • I surely hope this action on Trump’s part was a smart way of starting to get us out of the quagmire Clinton Bush Clinton Obama has this unwilling union of states in. But it is possible he’s just a fool listening to idiots and crooks. Still, the guy is mucking with the plans of the established crooks so what’s not to like? Either let them OD on their own chosen drug- hubris, or create chaos which disrupts the smooth “progress” of the cancer that is tyrannical government. I’ll vote for him again over any of the menagerie on the D side or the RINO side. Too bad there is no libertarian candidate or party.

    • “…..the #1 terrorist in the world…..”

      Fuck you Ed.

      You–and virtually no one outside military intelligence–had never heard that guys name before they killed him. Quit pretending you know anything more about this guy than anyone knew about Osama Bin Laden before 9/11.

  3. Good for President Trump putting America and Americans first instead of the dictatorial Democrats who pick and choose the winners at taxpayer expense. If electric vehicles are the future; pay your own damn way but not on our dime. Let Tesla go the way of another leftist disaster, taxpayer funded Solyndra. Orange man good; Democrats bad.

    The only thing Democrats love more than themselves is power over the people; they’re totalitarian wannabes.

      • Yeah, nothing like Trump’s tax plan that uses poor people’s money to the rich. Nothing new there and then signing the highest funding bill ever and most of it is for the military.

        The day before the strike several of the big military suppliers stocks went up. How does that work? Oh, as a former day trader I can tell you. It works illegally but never mind since that’s how congress gets rich. Nobody has consistent gains well above the S&P on every stock every year like congress. Insider trading is wonderful when you’re the beneficiary.

        • “Emotionally intelligent” (but net net?) congressional, & others, & others close by, front run. That’s (a big part of) how the ones that go in with little or nothing, & come out flush, do it. And the reason the ones with a lot already spend big to get in – so they can recoup even more.

          But that’s not trading, inside or otherwise.

          It’s more like embezzling. But it’s not even that when there is little to no risk of getting caught out.

          This, embezzling, is almost certainly trump’s focus number 1, with a bullet (or drone strikes, ororor), I think – well, number 2, behind following orders, doing as told.

          (Did he even ever really expect to wind up in the top embezzler spot?)

          He’s a moneyman, not a statesman – not that most, if not all statesmen ain’t moneymen, too… the state being the quickest line to loot, & loot being states’ & staties’ raison detre.

          & for every busted Teapot Dome there’s all the tea in china took before, during & after the loss leader.

          & even the loss leaders is lemons’d into lemonade, the busted pottery is kintsugi’d – golden joinery – into an even bigger & better trough dredge.

    • I fear the next thing they’ll try — after trump — is the inverse of a tax credit for EVs. That is, an extra fee/fine/sin tax for owning a registered ICE car. I know this already exists in a sense with gas taxes, and EPA regs, but I wouldn’t put it past them to additionally try an overt tax (like a sales tax, but based on the category of ICE vs EV) when you purchase a new car.

  4. Hey Eric, there is a God.

    Fire at Norway Airport Destroys Hundreds of Cars, Grounds Planes

    The cause is unknown and under investigation, but local police said they were notified at about 3:30 p.m. that an electric car was on fire in the parking garage. Norway has the most electric vehicles on the road per capita in the world.


      • The report initially stated that it was burning in an electric car, but on Wednesday police said in a press release that the fire started in a diesel car.—dieselbil-forarsaket-brannen/3423906236.html

        Searching in English on Parking Garage Fire does give some hits. So for now I apologize to Tesla.

        Oops, sorry, but I don’t get why this has never happened before

          • Hiya Nunz!

            Diesels have been effectively banned these days! There are a few diesel-powered trucks still on the market, but I think only Mazda is still offering a diesel-powered car.

            As recently as six years ago, there were diesel-powered VWs and Audis and Porsches; diesel Chevys and diesel-powered BMWs and Mercedes-Benzes. All unavailable now.

            Their offense? They made too much sense – and stood in the way of the EV Agenda.

            PS: Clover “LW” is up to 52 posts in the Moderation queue!

            • I know it, Eric! And it makes me sick- ’bout the diesels, that is. All the talk of “efficiency” and all…and they effectively ban the most efficient, versatile, most durable type of engine ever made. And even what diesels were/are still available, ain’t “real” diesels- as they are run by computers and electronically-controlled injectors instead of injector pumps- thus destroying the simplicity which once made them so versatile and durable.

              Just imagine what could be achieved with a 2000 lb. car with a small simple old-fashioned diesel? If a VW TDI could get 55+MPG….such a car as I imagine could probably get at least 70MPG. (Not that I’d drive it…but think of the efficiency of that- in all aspects- range; economy; durability; low initial purchase price; no special infrastructure for fuel delivery/refinement; less refinement; etc. etc. Now THAT would be a green car…but of course, the reds won’t have it, because such would bolster freedom, economic autonomy, independence, etc.)

              What might have been….if not for Uncle.

            • I’ve been seeing these references to “LW”, but I don’t think I’ve actually seen one of their posts….. Got me curious now!

              • Hi Nunz,

                He’s up to 56 now! A most persistent Clover. The most persistent yet. I tried responding to him for a while but it was like (per Heinlein) trying to teach a pig to sing. He diagnoses me as “autistic” yet continues to post abuse knowing it goes straight into the Moderation queue. I’d put his posts up for further dissection but what would be the point? Such people are unreachable.

                • Reaching for a barbell isn’t the same as reaching it. But reaching for a too heavy barbell means a preceding reach has grabbed ahold of you.

                  I heard the Jack Reacher character is 6’5″, 250lbs, 50-inch chest.

                  Something reached Tom Cruise. His inner Dwayne Johnson scientologist, maybe. And made a better reach-offer to Lee Child, than the outer Dwayne Johnson could, or didn’t, or never thought about reaching for.

                  (((Plus & besides the stature•tory rapine, TC’s 57 years old. But digital age removal tech’s coming on strong. TC could be kicking box office ass for decades to come.)))

                  • Ozy, my cousin recommended a Reacher book so I took the bait. It was so stupid. Him up in Wyoming where everyone is armed and he’s afoot in the winter.

                    My best friend and I were give the old “get out of here boys” on his dad’s land. If our dad’s had told us “There’s a guy out there trying to kill me and your mother and brothers and sisters and yall have to find him and stop him”, his ass would have been dead so fast it would make your head spin. We both shot rabbits on the run and I even did it with my fast draw revolver. We’d had no problem getting out of that pickup in some area it wouldn’t go and running him down and killing him long before he could touch us.

                    Those are pitiful books and you can tell they’re written by a Brit. He has no idea of the firepower in every pickup he sees.

                    • SAS, soccer hooligans, etc, prolly tend away from writing best sellers for best buyer amerikans, eh? But there’s rough ones everywhere.

                      Started dropping into a series about cheer (not the older pom-poms & rah-rah stuff). The hub of it all, just about, seems to be a junior college in Corsicana. Last night some bio details were given about one of the girls, who is from Wyoming. All kinds of rough in the world. People….

            • eric, he’s one of those who only got on here to deal out his special stupid kind of hell to everyone else. He knew he wasn’t going to agree with anyone else and that’s what he wanted. It still rears its head in Bill, er, uh, Vonu, now and then.

        • Liverpool Waterfront Car Park Fire

          Diesel fuel does not evaporate but instead pools, flows downhill and sticks to things. Cars are much larger now so they have larger fuel tanks. Fuel tanks are being made of plastic. Parking garages are built assuming car sizes from the 1960s. Put together you end up with a chain reaction. Fire suppression using fighting foam might have stopped the fire. The plastic fuel tanks might be to save weight. Pro tip: Insist on your next ride having a steel gas tank.

  5. Orange Julius Caesar’d those Iranians. O-man’s a murderer.

    Not that puny pres’s do any of that unilaterally.

    The sockpuppets presidential just represent – *are* represented – that way.

    “Incorporating” a strawman’s the cheapeasy way to keep the twittering birds occupied.

    And making a strawman into a color o’ law person of deflected responsibility\liability & then pilin’ sovereign immunity atop *that*, well, don’t that cover all the bases baseness?

    The only other real rubber:road contact patch point is that people – more than a few & more than enough of ‘em — will queue for any damn thing gov, or analogs, “pays” them to queue for (with or without “limited time offer” takeaway closury•usury).

    That’s the real baseness base, right there – the bully-o-base that ladles out the soup for you, or no soup for you, Ceaușescu.

    The tribal bible is written by the one true god & its name is bribery.

    Only chillun’s of lesser gods believe debate can bring down the bribery god.

    Or that the delicate phyllo dough philosophy of non-aggression will ever bribe the baksheesh tribe into switching to the libertarian tribe.

    Believin’ that’s — that they’d rather switch than fight — like offering baklava to the balaclava eyes that’s pointing the assault rifle at you.

    ((Flashing on Kilmer’s “you’re no daisy”…& the hippie slidin’ the carnation (ha, car, nation) into the rifle barrel…& Whatever Happened to Baby Jane’s sister Blanche (who wound up Dubois trapped, relyin’ on the kindness of stranger sis, & staring into the abyss of those Bette Davis eyes…).))

    & yeah, despite it being deemed offensive, “inaccurate,” by whichever glob it’s directed at, all tribes is cults.

    So the multi-cultis is them that wanna’ believe in rollin’ all the cults up, “teachin’” “the world” to sing for its ice cold coke bribes “as one.”

    Maybe if the mc’s get coca back into the original recipe they could do better…do a better illusion of better…of “perfect harm•ony.”

    Or simonize sez waxonwaxoff’s the way to harm•onize, become one of the little ralphie macchio good guize…

    …except nair chemotherapy takes the hair off & ke-mo sah-bee narrative just glues it right back on again. Gotta’ have those masked wo\men.

  6. Below is the best of the best I have every seen anyone sum up the EV’s, this is from a story about the Telsa stock and it’s future. Below was a comment that I believe came from an Auto Industry upper management level person or an auto industry lobbyist. This is the best I have every seen, as a whole picture view. Yea, what are people going to do when their $100 monthly electric bill goes up to $375 or $500 and likely a whole lot higher to build the electrical infrastructure to feed all the EV’s. Everything about the EV’s goes against the grain, everything.

    There is an assumption made that there will actually be a large market for EV cars. As the number of EV cars grows, the burden on the electrical grid will grow. At some point, either there will be a massive increase in production and transmission of electricity, or the EV market will stall. When people begin to see the cost of electricity rise due to needed infrastructure, I theorize that the EV market will stall.

    An additional choke point is the massive amount of rare earth metals needed for a large number of EV vehicles. I’m not sure that the cost will remain as low as it is when the demand grows dramatically. Or, people actually realize just how dramatically destructive most of the mining is to the environment and how much energy is needed to mine and refine these elements and really get ticked at the overall damage to the environment. It’s just not good stewardship.

    I’m willing to wait and see how this pans out, but I really don’t expect that EV has a market where long trips are a regular part of vehicle usage. Most people can’t afford to have a short distance car and a long distance car.

    • I used to work for an electric-supplies wholesaler. It was common knowledge in the electrical industry in the US that the electric grid then was near capacity. Few new generation plants have been built since, and those that have been built are replacing coal-powered units, so no net gain. This is the reason for recent new efficiency standards on lighting and home appliances.

      In the US plugging any quantity of EVs into the grid will risk brownouts and blackouts. That’s why you aren’t hearing the feds make serious noises about mandating electrics, only certain states such as California.

      Norway has called for all new cars by 2025 to be electric or hydrogen-powered. That country claims it has enough clean hydroelectric capacity to charge all these new cars. Other countries, not so much.

      The real agendas here are that EVs can be controlled as Musk does Teslas, and when the EV–caused blackouts do happen, that will be governments’ excuses to ban private cars…

  7. Elon Musk makes more money by taking out low-interest government loans and reselling themselves to himself than he has ever made making and selling electric cars. Now that his Chinese Gigafactory is open, it doesn’t matter whether he sells any cars here anymore. He is going to sell a lot more cars to a population of 1.4 billion upwardly mobile Chinese than he will to 330,000,000 mostly downwardly mobile Americans. He won’t need subsidies from a government that doesn’t pay them. The massive Chinese market becomes progressively more capitalistic as we become more socialistic, and so, unable to buy much of anything without a good credit rating and an increasing credit limit.
    I heard on the radio this morning that SpaceX just put 60 more Starlink satellites into orbit this morning. Musk is saying that they are on target to go live with a slightly limited Starlink constellation by the end of this year. Since there are, at least, 2 other competitors entering the same market for worldwide high speed Internet from LEO satellites, this service will threaten the soft monopolies held by the cellular companies. The same businesses that currently have free wifi will replace them with free cellular hotspots fed from the Internet satellites. People will put terminals in their homes and cars. Free Google Voice will replace cellular providers.
    It will be fun to see NASA begging SpaceX to rescue stranded astronauts from the ISS when Russia says no.

  8. Eric, now that Trump has truncated the EV tax credit, I would be interested to know if there was just one more action that Trump could take to bring more car buyer options to America (I for one would like to see cheap high mileage commuter vehicles and small diesel trucks) what would that action be? Unifying construction/safety/emissions standards between the US & Europe?

    • Hi Drew,

      Trump could do one thing that would make it feasible – make it legal – to build and sell $8,000 brand-new cars that averaged 50 MPG. That one thing? End all federal “safety” mandates/standards. Which have nothing to do with whether a vehicle is crash-prone. That is to say, defective – which is a product liability issue. The government has no moral business decreeing how much protection a car must offer in the event it crashes. It should be up to people decide how much crash protection they want – and are willing to pay for – just as people are still (for now) free to buy as much horsepower or off-road capability and so on as they want.

      People used to be able to buy either a 1,400 pound Beetle with just the basics – understanding that there was a higher chance of injury if they crashed than had they been driving a 4,000 lb. (and three times as expensive) Mercedes S-Class. But if they didn’t crash, the Beetle was just as “safe” as the Benz… just a lot cheaper to buy and own!

      • Back when I had a MK2Golf I looked into the crash and fatality statistics as it seemed I was driving around in toy car compared to the monsters that roamed the roads. Oddly the numbers suggested it was fairly safe. I can only think that it was light enough to be punted out of the way by more massive objects. Less inertia to continue carrying the vehicle forward?

    • It would be smart to unify standards. With the exception that then you could have non-USA countries telling us what to do/not do.
      But I wouldn’t wish our EPA diesel standards on anyone. They have made them so complex and costly to run/own that no one wants them anymore. Similar issues with gas engines as well.
      The amount of emissions reductions over the past 10+ years is ludicrous to me.
      My peers who own fleets of trucks are now buying gas engines and just throwing them away at 100K mi.
      I guess my only analogy would be we are Rome.

      • You want to unify standards that you wouldn’t wish on anyone?
        A lot full of 100K trucks for sale for the cost of the balloon would be pretty lucrative.
        I doubt that Don Donald is taking violin lessons, but we have plenty of Neros.

        • No. I will clarify.
          Unifying standards lowers manufacturing/engineering costs. But not if the standards are erroneous.
          I would not wish our diesel regs on anyone, however if the US went to a little less regs, then others could meet them and costs would drop like a rock.
          The price of a diesel product I sell went up $5-7K (50HP) with the new Regs, and the cost to run such doubled. You and I pay for this, just not directly.
          BUT, you would lose a lot of US manuf. jobs.
          As Eric has said before ‘for a 0.5% of something’. Sad but true.
          Example: If we went back to Tier 3 diesel regs, there would be a flood of diesels on the market for 1/3 of the price of current units. And you (or the earth) wouldn’t notice the difference.

          • Not if an honest leveling tariff was implemented. I’d be okay with paying that price. Production costs for US built Tier 3 engines would go down as well. If the tariff was high enough, economies of scale would take effect

  9. What is wrong with you political hacks?
    Cancelling this subsidy is a great thing.
    Why would you care who ‘the POTUS is’? When an action ‘towards freedom’ instead of ‘against freedom’ is made we should all ‘recognize and applaud’ the event, unless of course, you are ‘against freedom’ instead of ‘towards freedom’. This is our win, not POTUS’s!
    If Obama did this, I would ‘recognize and applaud’, but, than of course he did just the opposite.
    We need to stay on topic here. This post is about understanding how our [travel] freedoms are ‘dying the death of a 1000 paper cuts’ – Awareness 1st – Action if capable -Kudos to EricP for taking Action.
    RECOGNIZE how important to win these small battles and APPLAUD them!

      • Bobster,

        You don’t pay attention. How many times in the past have Dumbocraps uncharacteristically done very un-libtardlian things- like reducing welfare spending and cutting Socialist Security? They ALL do the same damn thing- whatever is expedient….it’s just that people applaud when “one of their own” does something they like, and ignore it when their own does something very hypocritical or uncharacteristic- like Trump’s war against the 2nd Amendment…which very few on either side seem to be talking about…or even noticing.

    • So they’ll be poorly made and more spontaneous, BUT a lot more affordable for the sheeples and virtue signalers

      I, for one, welcome the move so that more libtards throw away their $$$$ on the poorly made time bombs

    • Hi James,

      I’m sympathetic to anyone that loses their job, but Tesla is a product of a coerced wealth transfer, which diverts resources away from where they would have gone absent the intervention, and toward a politically favored end. Tesla would not exist in it’s current form without this wealth transfer. Aside from the obvious immorality of forcing average people to “help” provide expensive toys for rich people, government interventions reduce overall productivity and net wealth. Those favored with the subsidies and mandates do very well for themselves but everyone else is slightly worse off. We cannot know what would have occurred absent the intervention as this is an “unseen” opportunity cost. Most modern economists have forgotten, or conveniently ignored Bastiat’s great essay, “What is Seen and What is Unseen”.

      He wrote,

      “There is only one difference between a bad economist and a good one: the bad economist confines himself to the visible effect; the good economist takes into account both the effect that can be seen and those effects that must be foreseen.” ― Frédéric Bastiat.

      Unfortunately, most economists are “bad” in this sense and nothing more than court intellectuals whose main job is to justify government intervention into the market. Even the Chicago school, which favors the most destructive intervention possible, government created fiat money and central banking, aren’t much help. Only the Austrian school can be considered truly free market. Of course, court economists reject the Austrian school because it reveals the government/central bank/think tank structure of professional economists to be massive rent seeking scam.


          • If readin’ had the power o’ rightin’ things’d’ve been righted long before now. That you misread the whirld windies this way clues right to the how & why o’ indies & cowboys never stop circlin’ their ouroboros wagons, & takin’ turns shootin’ each the other down.

            Reading, for most, or at least more than enough, is just so much Rorschach ink blotting, or seein’ animal spirits in the clouds & Carly Simons in the coffee.


            What’d happen if Krugman read Bastiat? Ha. You think he hasn’t already? Yet that kiss didn’t unfrog him.

            It won’t unfrog many, if any, who’s bread’s buttered by bustin’ windows, either.

            Leaflet the MIC – that’s a lot of useless eaters — with peanut bastiat & jelly sandwichboards today, they’ll still be eatin’ your lunch tomorrow. & the day after that. &∞∞∞.

            Casting it otherwise is egalitarian wheeze all just the same intoxication. Might better check the batteries on the egalarm…egal may have landed, taken up roost…& once those talons are in, the headdress is alive, but everything below it’s just nest…& dirty laundry. “Is the head dead, yet?”


            This tune, from Magnolia (a worthwhile flick) also offers some advice (but hell, “read Bastiat”’s advice, too, innit guvnuh?) along lines of when you find yourself in a box canyon, *don’t* keep going, don’t keep grafitti’ing on that dead end wall, turn around, bite the sunk cost bullet & write it off. Cuz in that situation – this perennial & permanent humanimal situation – off is on:


  10. When you have to pay a consumer to buy a product you have to know that there is virtually no market for that product otherwise. This is another great way that Congress, in all its stupidity, wastes tax dollars. Government is the supreme expert at destroying efficiency created in a free capitalistic system. However, if the Marxists regain control of the government, you can bet your last pair of underwear that they will re-instate this consumer pay-off and maybe in greater amounts. Trump may have postponed the eventual disintegration of the fossil fuel industry, but Congress has already been bought and paid for.

  11. “Anyone who supports this lunatic is crazy as well.”

    Eric, sorry mate, reading this article I knew that it would prompt the left-wing nut-jobs to turn an automotive article into a political fight.

    Love him or hate him, President Trump did the proper thing in stopping the rich-mans welfare; both to EM and only those folks that could use the tax credit (which as a retired person on fixed income, I cannot).

    Now maybe DT will go after renewable energy credits and swaps.

    • Clay, as much as I am glad that the federal EV subsidy is stopped for the moment….this is not even a blip on the radar as far as stopping the welfare- as Trump has signed the BIGGEST military budget of all-time…..and the military-industrial complex IS the “welfare” office….

      Hell, bad enough that Obozo created a Space Weather Agency- The Orange Buffoon has done the Monkey one better and has now funded a Space Warfare agency!

      The EV subsidies, which were limited to a certain number of EVs sold per year, while bad enough, only amounted to millions…. vs. the hundreds of BILLIONS being doled out to the mercenaries. And other than being a waste of our money, at least the EV subsidy was relatively benign- while what the military budget is funding is destroying our country, our rights, and innocent lives all over the world.

      This is like a mother saying “Johnny stole all of my money and raped his sister…but at least he sent me a nice Mother’s Day card!”

      • Hi Nunz!

        I don’t disagree with any of what you’ve said; I only point out that these things would have been done regardless. But the ending of the EV mandate is something that wouldn’t have been, had it been anyone else in the Decider’s chair. So I applaud this particular thing.

        • Hey Ya Eric!

          I agree with ya fully! I also applaud the ending of the EV subsidy- and or any other reduction of government involvement in our lives and finances [Sadly, we won’t be getting a refund of the saved money- it’ll just be redistributed elsewhere]. And ditto, I’m sure that all of the bad things DJT is doing/has done, would have been done by any of the others as well. Like I’ve said- it’s just different words, different promises, different emphases by the media- those are the only things that truly change.

    • You all are so blinded by your hate of electric vehicles that you are calling a tax hike a subsidy, implying that the rich mans money belongs to the government and by not taxing him “as much” as he taxes you that he is taking your money.

      All tax cuts are a good thing, clamoring for someone else to pay more taxes for any reason is the same vile tax-the-rich thinking that drives the welfare nation.

      The “right” thing to do from a libertarian perspective is to give the tax credit to all car buyers…. or better yet… to all buyers of anything.

      I hate market manipulation by taxation discrimination as much as the next guy, but there is a huge difference between a subsidy and a credit. You can only benefit from a credit if you actually paid that much in taxes.

      This is a tax increase. We should not envy someone else’s good fortune of reduced taxes nor cheer the raising of anyone’s taxes. Instead we should focus on reducing government spending and only reduced spending should be cheered.

      • The idea that ‘all tax cuts are good’ is nonsense. Government doesn’t curb spending so these ‘tax cuts’ only changes who pays and maybe when it is paid. The government didn’t buy fewer bombs because of a subsidy to electric cars or not taxing them or whatever. Spending elsewhere wasn’t curbed to give battery EV buyers a break. It just means battery EV buyers pay less and someone else pays more. Either today, tomorrow, through inflation, or years from now. Someone else paid instead.

        “Government is the great fiction by which everyone endeavors to live at the expense of everyone else. ” -Bastiat.

        • ““Government is the great fiction by which everyone endeavors to live at the expense of everyone else. ” -Bastiat.”

          Yes Brent, very true.

          But it is all a game, and we have little chance of changing the rules others made, so the practical and pragmatic just figure out how to work the system to our best advantage.

          Myself, once everything I needed was paid off, dropped my income to poverty level and started sucking at the teat for all I was worth. IF you can live on $20k/year, feels so much better than handing over $40k/year.

          • Pragmatic’s a frag grenade that’s been pr’d & remotely (intellectually) detonated.

            “Thank you for your validating-camouflaging cogdiservice,” say the other fragmatics.

      • You are not a libertarian. The libertarian thing to do would be to abolish the NHTSA and for government at any level to NOT DISTORT the market in any way.

      • Hi Daniel,

        “… there is a huge difference between a subsidy and a credit”.

        No, there’s not. If a tax credit had to be offset by a comparable reduction in spending, then your argument would make more sense. Targeted tax credits, given to promote politically favored behavior, without any reduction in spending, amounts to a wealth transfer from the disfavored group to the favored group, just like a subsidy.

        Many make the same argument about the fraudulent Presidential election campaign fund checkoff, which assures every deluded fool who checks the box that their taxes will not go up. Again, because that spending is not offset by reductions elsewhere, total spending, which is the true measure of taxation, will increase.


      • Hi Daniel,

        “I hate market manipulation by taxation discrimination as much as the next guy…”

        Then you should oppose all targeted tax credits, which are explicitly designed to manipulate the market. Whether it’s done to promote home ownership, college attendance, having kids, “green” technology, expensive cars for virtue signalling rich people, etc…, tax credits distort the market as much as direct subsidies (credits are indirect subsidies).

        Without subsidies and credits, Tesla would not exist in its current form. It may have been a successful niche company producing luxury sports cars for rich people, which would be fine. But Elon, like all technocrats, is interested in transforming the world. God forbid, the “revolution” he imagines is gaining ground, much to the detriment of us mere mundanes. Likewise, the insane push for EV’s throughout the developed world would not be possible without subsidies and tax credits. Tax credits produce negative outcomes for “regular” people, and benefits to the politically favored, distort the market and accelerate both government power and growth. They are just as bad as subsidies. Opposing them is not, at least for this libertarian, “the same vile tax-the-rich thinking that drives the welfare nation”.


  12. Forget this! The real stupidity of EVs is that you are sitting atop a fragile liquid-electrolyte 100kw explosive! Even the Hydrogen EV is less likely to incinerate you.

    • Hi Pericles!

      Stupid, I can abide. Provided it’s not enforced. And this is more than just stupid; it’s evil. Electric cars are being forced on us because it is the means by which we will be forced out of cars, period. And by which our free movement will be dramatically limited.

      • You are one of the few that recognizes that EVs are a means to an end. And, the rate of change at which things are occurring, that end might come within a couple of years after gas engined cars stop being produced for this market

  13. I realize this is primarily a car blog but trump just murdered the most effective fighter against ISIS the taliban and Al Qaeda in the world. He’s lost his mind. Anyone who supports this lunatic is crazy as well. He’s a fat dumb ignorant pig.

      • what he said is true like it or not. trump serves the jews. messican narcos should have been turned into protoplasm not the general who was the main reason ISIS (israels private army) was defeated

    • Hi Mark,

      We live in crazy – in dangerous – times. In such times, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I support Trump’s policies when they enhance rather than diminish the craziness. Rescinding the subsidy is an example. As far as the rest – I don’t know what to make of it as it doesn’t help his re-election prospects if the economy dips because gas prices go up. And I am personally not happy about this “hit” – which is what it was – which invites retaliatory “hits” upon us. But what is to be done?

      It’s not as though we have the opportunity to choose someone better than Trump. We only have the choice of someone far worse.

        • I also like Tulsi. She won’t win because she speaks truth to power. If she won the Dem nomination I’d be happy to vote for her for the WH, vs. just voting for the least bad option.

          But Trump, as bad as he is, is better than most of the other Dems.

        • C’mon youse guys! Anyone who posts here should be observant enough to realize that the particular figure-head in office does not matter one iota- they all do the exact same thing and serve the same masters- and why not, since that is the very purpose for the existence of the office they inhabit- to maintain, perpetuate and expand the very apparatus over which that office presides?

          Anyone who ascends to that office and who seeks to perpetuate and further that over which it presides, rather than dismantle it, IS our enemy. It is no different than choosing which member of the Communist party will be chairman of China….no matter who ya pick, they’re STILL A COMMUNIST!

          Libertarians should “get” this stuff!

          • Hi Nunz,

            We do get it! It’s not Orange Man is good so much as that others are worse. They would also have done all the vile things you enumerate and not done any of the not-vile things, such as eliminate the massive punitive tax – more than $800 annually – for not sending money to the health insurance mafia as well as this EV subsidy-ending business. These are good things, even if they came from a bad Orange Man.

            • **”There are more LINOs than there are RINOs, and the LP is running them on its ticket.”***

              I like that! (and it’s true- esp. about the Libertarian Party….)

              Bill, ya really need to write an Andy Rooney-style book of these observations!

              Bill: “Did ya ever notice, there aren’t many homos named ‘Buster’?”

            • Hi Vonu,

              Historically, the Republican party championed big government, centralization, tariffs and subsidies for internal improvement; they still do, only the rhetoric has changed. Only the very few Republicans who actually believe in “small government” are RINO’s in a meaningful sense.


    • This is literally the most ignorant and ridiculous thing I have seen posted in a long time. You need to do some studying as you are pretty far off the cure of what people call reality. Far leftists coddle criminals while working hard to penalize law abiding citizens constantly within the borders of the US, so I can’t be surprised that they would do the same thing outside of the US. I’m sure you are the kind of lefty that would have cheered when Stalin, Mao or Hitler was Times “Man of the Year”. I can only hope you end up on the end of the pointy end of the death to America stick you are handing out one day and that no one else gets hurt in the process.

  14. I can’t believe what I’m reading here….

    The cocksucker orders what is essentially a mob hit; a cold-blooded murder of Gen. Salami to appease his Jewish masters; If the prick doesn’t do another thing, he has already done more damage to our Second Amendment rights than any other single president- Repugnantcan or Dumbocrap- in history…..etc., etc. and you guys are PRAISING this bastard, who is reaming you a new one and serving the very people whom you claim to despise, and NUKING what little scraps of liberty still remain to us?

    I feel like I’m reading Worldnetdaily or Rush Limbaugh……..

    Sure he cut the subsidy- ’cause he needs more money to hire even more jack-boots to subdue “enemies and terrorists” at home and abroad……..

    • Oh come on Nunz. I know you wanted a model S, but you should have bought it last year. Trust me, I’m glad you took a moment from your daily binge of Tom Woods podcasts to tell us how you really feel… but can’t you just let us normal free marketeers have this?

      • Now Brandon, how many times do I have to tell you, I drive a velomobile which was made by a company founded by Ed Begley Jr. and Greta Loonbird…err…Thunberg- it’s called a BeGreta, and is powered by recycled beans from the asshole. Trouble is, I can’t get either of the aforementioned assholes to sit in the damned thing to power it!

        Emissions testing will be….*interesting*….

    • I’ve never had a president that didn’t put Israel’s interests first in my lifetime. I feel powerless to this, and accept that they have our leaders bought and paid for. I’m just happy to be getting a few scraps here like this news, which is more than I’ve got in the past.

    • Hi Nunz,

      I’m not happy about this Iranian business either. But would Hillary have done differently? And would she have done anything to dial back the EV Agenda? I am not defending Trump per se but rather what Trump has done in this case. If Bernie were Decider and cut back taxes, I’d approve of that, too.

      I approve of steps in the right direction… even if not from the perfect direction.

      • @ Eric and Bin.

        All for Israel. One just has to read the Symington Amendment, and view that it has been illegally ignored by every president since, to know who is pulling the strings here.

        The US is simply an outlaw nation, hypocritical in the extreme. If Iran drone-whacks a US General or the Secratary of State the US would entirely lose its shit and kill tens of thousands.

        OH, BTW, Soleimani was on a diplomatic mission in Iraq at the request of the Iraqis. The US just defacto made every ambassador and envoy a target. If they won’t play by the rules, why the fuck should anyone else?

        • Amen, Anon!

          This will likely be a tipping point for this country- and also the end of Trump. He likely had the 2020 election sewn up….until now. This puts the US over the top- and I wouldn’t surprised if it is the last straw for many other nations, and they band together to restrain our future actions.

          There is also now going to be more terrorism….real and imagined…for which we now lose the last shards of our liberty to “counter”; and there will likely be war (just what Israel wanted for HAAAAAACHKnukkah)….and resultant “patriotism”- read: more caving of the citizenry to the tyrants in DC.

          What little edge of likability I had for Trump (just really grateful that he’s not the Clinton bitch or Mittens) is now replaced by the realization that this guy is in very very fact a deluded emperor/dictator who acts on primal impulses and is easily deluded by his handlers- and is likely insane.

          This is going to have far-reaching consequences…. This will likely go down in history as the formally-recognized official beginning of the end of America. The repercussions- including internal political- will push this already destroyed country over the edge.

          One can’t just go around ordering hits on foreign ambassadors in their own neighboring nations. This is a despicable crime. Regardless of how one feels about Trump, this was nothing but murder; a declaration a war; a lawlless deed which his office does not authorize him to do, and even a despicable thing to do to every American- making us all guilty by association.

          I am mortified.

          And if Trump will do THIS…to an official of a sovereign nation on foreign soil….imagine what he has in store for us- the one who said “take the guns first” and that “The police shouldn’t be so nice”. These are the guy’s true colors. Anyone not “getting” this yet?

            • Hi Handler,

              Trump is exasperating. He does some genuinely positive things, even if inadvertently. And then he does some reprehensible things, often deliberately. What to do? I am grateful to him for ending the “hit” on me and others who have not tithed to the health insurance mafia; I am appalled by the hit on this Iranian general. I love that he enrages the diseased Left; I fear that his deranged leftist polices (e.g., “red flag” laws).

              It makes my teeth ache.

              How do we get back to 1990?

              • Start by getting the adderall prescriptions out of Washington. Ever since Gulf War I and the Air Force policy of feeding it to pilots (to keep them awake for 48 hour missions), it’s become the drug of choice. It’s also why presidents look so terrible after their time in the Oval Office. I imagine the justification is much like the reasons for juicing up musicians on tours, a lot of people are depending on a single man for their paychecks and dammit, they’re going to make sure they get it. Some people probably do OK (GW Bush was a former cokehead, so he probably took to it just fine), but Obama, not so much. Rumors abound that Trump was on adderall before going to the White House, so maybe he just upped his dosage.


              • Eric – “How do we get back to 1990?”

                Per the Constitution, presidents don’t have the authority to interfere with auto production or wage war without the consent of “we the people” – congress. Presidents take an oath to the document. If they are given a pass on their oath, then most of our countrymen deserve what we have – lawlessness.

          • Hey Nunz, Eric, and others on this forum. Yes you guys are all right about how bad his hit was, and few things piss off the world as much as American fuckery in the Middle East. And I do think this will be one of the first markers of the official end of America as a superpower, especially given even that Iraq’s democratic parliament (the one America set up after killing Saddam, who was an evil dictator) has voted for the Americans to get out. Now, whatever decision the US makes in Iraq will basically be the wrong one… Honestly I see this on par with the stupidity of killing Epstien and making it look like a suicide, just when everyone was joking about how funny it would be if he kills himself in prison….

            That said, have to side with Eric on this one, and think some credit has to be given to the Orange One – he may not be as bad as the others. I mean he reached the start of his fourth year in office before embarking on a major foreign mis-adventure. And that, from what I recall has not happened in my lifetime…..

            • Hi Nasir!

              It’s getting a lot like the old Soviet Union here; If they don’t like someone, they just make them disappear. Now it’s gotten to the point where they do it in plain sight and don’t even try to hide it.

              As usual, your analysis is astute- except for your last point. I’d certainly call the bombing of Syria a foreign misadventure….as well as what he has been doing in S. America; the taking of the Syrian oil fields; the various trade wars, embargoes, and breaking of treaties….

              Ay! What a mess!

              • Hey Nunz – I guess I meant a new foreign misadventure the US wasn’t already involved in… I think all of those were pretty much started before Trump.

              • Your right on them not even trying to hide it. Though im not sure if that’s because they’re so far up their ass that they don’t care, or they are so busy fighting amongst themselves as empire reaches its last days that shit just slips. I guess further signs the empires days are numbered. Im sure crooked shit always happened at the top, but now more and more is getting to us plebs. This didn’t happen say 20 years ago, when everyone fell in line behind however outrageous the story was (like of course some bearded guy in a cave was responsible for 9/11 and those buildings fell all on their own, and all the financial records of the pentagon got blown up a day before they were supposed to be scrutinised). Now more and more is slipping it seems.

                • Nasir, I think that they don’t care about hiding it anymore is because “wee-the-people” have now lost all of our power- so the masks are starting to come off. After all, what are we going to do- vote for someone else in 4 years? LOL!

                  The people are now mostly just an idotic labor pool, and harmless compliants. The few who might know and care enough to do anything have only pea-shooters left (and soon to be losing those) against the brutal, heavily-armed jackboots made up of their neighbors.

                  Now they can start making obvious just how powerless we really are, so that most will just be content to enjoy their bread and circuses.

                  It’s to the point where they gain more power by revealing their true nature, than by making a pretense of benevolence.

                  The “consent of the governed” is not needed once physical superiority and ruthlessness have been established.

                  • Hey Nunz,

                    “The “consent of the governed” is not needed once physical superiority and ruthlessness have been established”.

                    The consent of the governed was always a myth, promulgated by those in power to convince their subjects that their power was legitimate and necessary. Once established, physical superiority and ruthlessness is inevitable.


                    • Agreed, Jeremy! The “consent of the governed” of course is/was a myth- but the perpetuation of that myth by paying lip-service to it and by the overlords not openly showing contempt for it, was a great tool to keep the masses satiated and playing along at home while the evil beasts built their power to the point beyond which it could be challenged.

                      Huh? Huh?! 😉

      • Hey Eric!

        ***”would she have done anything to dial back the EV agenda?”****

        Probably. Manmy states are now increasing the registration fees for EVs- seriously increasing them- even states run by Dumbocraps.

        There is no infrastructure to support mass adoption of EVs. They know it. They can not keep up the charade forever. When something needs to be cut, they’ll cut it from something that will ultimately disappear anyway. Just like Slick Willy did the most uncharacteristic thing for a commie, and cut welfare spending.

        These little perks are so negligible in the context of the far greater damages being done that it is almost ludicrous to even mention them. It reminds me of people who live in parts of NYC that were heavily controlled by the Mafia, speaking well of a Mafia boss because he got them a job, or curtailed Latino gang activity in the area…and not caring about all the corruption, extortion and murder, because “if there’s gonna be crime, better that we at least get a little benefit from it”.

        Yeah, I can applauid the temporary cessation of the EV subsidies…..but I’m certainly not going to praise the Donald nor support him when the vast majority of what he does is just as immoral, destructive, and loathsome as what all of the other scumbag politicians do.

        This guy has turned out to be one of the most clear and present dangers to liberty of our lifetimes- and anyone who thinks otherwise has bought into the word-games and media shenanigans which are designed to keep the masses content with the tyrants.

        Seeing Libertarians throw their support to this ilk, is just like seeing conservatives and Christians supporting so many other loathsome politicians just because they oppose abortion- and then turning a blind eye to all of the murderous and oppressive deeds the ones whom they support perpetrate.

        This is what happens when you buy into the pluralistic system- “Oh well, B kinda sucks, but he’s better than A, so I’ll support him” and that is exactly what such a system is designed to do. It shouldn’t work on Libertarians.

    • you are 100% right. rabbi trump is the king of the jews. now I read that the pentagram is saying we cant believe trump ordered that murder in a typical CYA episode. then the demonic satanyahu also stabbed trump in the back saying israel had nothing to do with it. meanwhile sources have indicated the false intel that the general was planning attacks came from israel just like the false intel WMD israel gave to start Iraq war. that is why satanyahu made a U turn

      • What a pantload of aryan crap! I must admit though the motley collection of aryan imbeciles that frequents this site are at least entertaining.

        Then again… Hmmm…. As you may recall by using “aryan warrior” standards of reason, logic, and evidence I myself uncovered a dastardly Jew plot against the White Race; Israelis and other hellish Jews infiltrating the old car in order to lure White Christians to their doom. I believe now that by using your type of logic I have discovered yet another plot of the Jews, this time an exceptionally sinister plot even by Jew standards directed against the very heart and soul of the White race!

        It cannot have escaped your attention that there have been many deaths of White cultural icons and other White luminaries in recent years. Doris Day. Gloria Vanderbilt. Tim Conway. Fred Hellerman. Eugene Cernan. Martin Milner. Yvonne Craig. Sally Field. Florence Henderson. John Glenn. Ross Perot. Lee Iacocca. Peter Tork. Peter Fonda. Rip Taylor. Burt Reynolds. Roger Moore. The list goes on and on. It cannot be mere coincidence that so many icons of White culture and enterprise have been falling by the wayside so quickly! So what is happening here? Using keen aryan-style analysis, meaning of course making shit u…, I mean, “reading between the lines”, we find that yet again it is a cabal of hellish, satanic Jews who are responsible!

        Can there be any doubt to any right-thinking person that the Head Jew, issuing fiendish, demonic orders from his secret lair in the Sinai desert, has unleashed an army of foul Mossad agents to murder these icons of the White race in cold blood? Adopting the aryan worldview we see there can be no other explanation!

        Although I do try to remain humble, I must pat myself on the back for exposing yet another heinous plot by the Jewish Cabal against the White Race!!

        • Cool story bro.

          Oh, who counts as Aryan? How do you decide? Is it based on anything other than your indigence at a posters words?

          Do WASPs get to be Aryan too? Imbeciles want to know.

            • Hey, I’m an imbecile….. see? Says so in the post. 🙂

              Thanks. Sometimes the spell check offers a correction and I don’t check closely enough before clicking it.

          • It’s kind of like the Supreme Court’s definition of pornography – something your recognize when you see it.

            The term “aryan” refers to self-styled “aryan warriors”. Also known as “white supremacists” and various other monikers. Hang around on white power sites a while (I have accounts on several) and you’ll soon get to recognize the signs. Typically it involves a seething, irrational hatred of Jews who they blame for every evil and the world, assigning collective guilt to all of (((them))). (The multiple parens is a symbol typically used by the aryan warrior crowd.) This generally is accompanied by a desire to deport or eradicate Jews, and a disdain for what they refer to as the “mud races” that they believe should be subjugated or eradicated. Those are some of the tipoffs.

            So no, being a WASP does not automatically make one an “aryan” in that sense of the word. However most “aryans” would prefer that everyone was a WASP except perhaps for a few of the “mud races” to keep around as servants.

        • So, JF, are you saying that everything they are saying is a lie, or are you just trying to make opinions you are afraid of unpopular? It is entirely unnecessary to hate Jews (or anyone else) to observe what goes on in the world around you. Is there a huge concentration of Jews in propaganda (TV and movie) and government and law? Are there social groups and tribes from cultures which look out for each other? Is there something wrong with observing this? Oh no, now I’m an anti semite, a racist, and probably an Aryan Brother…
          Mazel Tov, bro.

          • Virtually everything that springs from the minds, mouths, and keyboards of the white supremacist/aryan warrior crowd is a lie or distortion. The core of their mindset is the asinine notion that ethnicity is the primary factor behind everything, and that the Jews are responsible for all the evil in the world despite the overwhelming mountain of evidence that their own kind are at least as guilty of those evils as Jews or anyone else. Unable to accept the perfidy exhibited by members of their own “tribe”, which they believe is superior to all others, they look for scapegoats. Scratch the surface a little and you’ll find they typically believe that if they can “get rid of” the Jews, who they hate with a passion, and subjugate or eliminate the “mud races” they will have a White paradise.

            It goes far beyond observing that, oh there are Jews (or Blacks, or Mormons, or whoever) involved in this that or the other thing. Of course there are Jews doing all manner of evil – but there have been and continue to be far more White Christians indulging in evil acts, yet for some reason we never see them blaming “The Christians” for anything.

            White supremacists deal in collectivism of the worst kind which is the polar opposite of libertarianism.

            • Gee, another cool story bro.

              Entirely devoid of facts but rife with assumption, arrogance and superiority.

              “of the white supremacist/aryan warrior crowd is a lie or distortion. The core of their mindset is the asinine notion that ethnicity”

              Fair dose of hypocrisy too!

              • Those are simply facts that correlate with observation.

                Also, there is no hypocrisy there at all. One does not choose his or her ethnicity. One makes a conscious choice to be a white supremacist. I don’t make judgements against people based on the ethnicity they are born into. I may make them based on the philosophy they choose to buy into.

            • Jason, Bruddah,

              It’s not that ethnicity is a primary factor; it’s just that in the case of what we are discussing, the trail always leads back to one nation, and group of people who happen to be of a particular ethnicity- just as when one looks at who is primarily carrying out the agendas of that group, it most often comes back to Americans.

              To deny either one of those readily observable facts would be as foolhardy as denying that 9-11 was an inside job, or that Obozo is a mulatto….or that the pope is Calf-lick (and a Marxist globalist).

              • Hey Nunz,

                “… it’s just that in the case of what we are discussing, the trail always leads back to one nation”.

                Yes, and that nation is the US.


                • Hey, Jer,

                  True enough- but why? Is it ever in OUR interest, or is it that it almost always benefits *someone else*?

                  Did Trump just wake up one morning and say “Gee, I think I’ll declare criticism of Tonga to be a prosecutable offense on federally-funded college campuses!!”?

                  Does Trump want us to love the Greeks more?

                  Do we go to war for all of the white South Africans being murdered and driven from their land?

                  Why have we been constantly involved with little third-world countries in the Mid-east, who are not even capable of doing our country any harm, and whom we’d never even hear from if we weren’t constantly messing with them as we have been for the last 75 years?

                  Why are our “enemies” always coincidentally one and the same with Isrtael’s enemies?

                  Did Boris Johnson hoist the Bolivian flag?

                  Why is the answer always “No, we do those things, and a million others for Israel”?

                  Doesn’t that seem a little strange?

                    • Hey Jer!

                      O-K, I’ve since read your reply to SPQ. Sorry to say, that it “doesn’t really do it for me”.
                      Most often, what transpires in the name of obedience to Israel, is CONTRARY to the overall personal aims and objectives of our “power elite”; and that scenario still doesn’t ‘splain why it always comes back to Israel as being the prime motivators; Surely, if it were just that excuses were needed for the 2nd-tier power elite’s actions, they could find better and more plausible ones than serving a terrorist nation; nor does it explain why so many from that cabal are so over-represented in our politics; worldwide media; the porn industry, etc. when even the whole of the population of their entire ethnicity is one of the smallest populations on earth.

                      Anyone looking objectively at such facts (and what I’ve mentioned here is just the tip of the iceberg) would have to be in denial to try and dismiss the elephant in the room by trying to even deny that it exists.

                      Why do people have such trouble even acknowledging such readily observable facts?

                      And now that we’ve seen the recent events surrounding Israeli spy Epstein, and just how many 2nd-tier elites from most of the first-world nations were involved with him- obviously for the express purpose of being kept under control- extending even to the royal family of Britain- it should be the more obvious.

                      See? Again…it comes back to ISRAEL!! It always does. In the past, one often had to dig a little to see it; today, it is becoming much more open and obvious, and thus it is harder to deny these realities.

                  • Hey Nunz,

                    Well, we just disagree.

                    “Most often, what transpires in the name of obedience to Israel, is CONTRARY to the overall personal aims and objectives of our ‘power elite’.

                    I find this statement astonishing. The power elite in the US benefits enormously from its pursuit of global hegemony, which requires perpetual war. They are being obedient to their own interests, the “special” relationship with Israel, furthers that end. Of course, this pursuit is contrary to the interests of regular Americans, which I stated clearly, it is not contrary to the interests of the power elite.

                    “… still doesn’t ‘splain why it always comes back to Israel as being the prime motivators”.

                    Israel is not the prime motivator, it is the excuse used by the power elite in the US to justify its insane pursuit. I’ll add one more false narrative to what I described earlier as it helps to explain why Israel seems to be the senior partner here, but they are not. Israel, according to the power elite, is always in danger of being annihilated. This false narrative allows the power elite to portray Israel as the underdog, always fighting for its survival. Thus its actions can be portrayed as defensive, which rhetorically undercuts the, obviously true, “terrorist State” narrative. Combined with the “any criticism of Israel is just antisemitism narrative”, the US power elite can portray its agenda as noble and dismiss any criticism of it as “hate”. This shields them from effective criticism.

                    “See? Again…it comes back to ISRAEL!! It always does”.

                    No other nation adequately serves the purpose of the US power elite more than Israel. Which is the only nation surrounded by supposedly hostile enemies, bent on its destruction. France, Germany, England, etc… don’t meet the narrative needs, required to justify US hegemony. That is why it always seems to come back to Israel. Of course, Israel is a bad actor, does horrible things and benefits from US policy. However, the US power elite aids Israel for its own interests, not out of “obedience” to Israel.

                    Finally, the blanket condemnation of all members of a group (I know you don’t do this, but some here do) and the conflation of that group with the actions of the State that purports to represent them, is despicable and profoundly unlibertarian. As libertarians, we do not accept that we are responsible for the actions of the State, nor that our character is defined by that State. Lumping all Jooos with the State of Israel is ridiculous. There are good and bad people in every “tribe”, mostly good. The problem, as JWK noted, is that coercive, monopoly government always puts sociopaths in power and aids “private” sociopaths who collude with the State. The few “good” people who seek high office either become sociopaths or quit. This is a problem for every group, not just the Jooos.

                    The Aryan warrior obsession with the Jooos is just the mirror image of leftist identity politics, it is loathsome in either case. Most people, including Jews, do not consider their tribal identity to be their defining characteristic. I’m friends with quite a few Jews and not one of them defines themselves by their Jewishness, nor acts in a way that displays loyalty to their tribe above all else. Sure, some do, just like some whites do.


                    • Jeremy, dead on. The Netanyahu govt. is the biggest threat to the average American of any country in the world.

          • LOL! I see the cowardly little-girl with delusions of being a “real man” is back! What a hoot! I wish I was a yid! You guys make them sound awesome!! (Usually you assholes refer to me as a “shabbos goy”!)

            A craven little shit like yourself does not have the power or authority to make me “GTFO”. You can repeat is as often as you like if it makes you feel like big man. If there is anyone who should “GTFO” is is anti-libertarian poltroons such as yourself, but only Eric can make that determination here.

      • SPQ, It’s funny- and sad, that any time something happens involving our high-level politicians (and especially if what happens seems to make no sense or have any relevance, rhyme or reason) we all know by now, from experience, that one just has to look towards Is-ra-hell for the motive- just like when someone’s stuff is stolen, and they know that the house down the block where the meth-head kid lives will be where it can be found.

        This nonsense in the Mid-East has been going on my entire life. I used to watch the new back in the early 70’s when I was 9 years old…and it was the same BS back then- and for what? It has absolutely nothing to do with us- we’re just Israel’s bitch- and keep electing presidents who will give them our money and fight their wars……

        It’s become so “normal” that it’s just taken for granted….and few seem to care or even notice anymore.

        • It’s actually worst than that- the candidates for elective office- who gets to run, are entirely controlled by people at least heavily influenced by Israel. They don’t care who you vote for – you’re voting for their goy. Er, guy… Local and rural elections still do have some legitimacy (sometimes), which is why voting is still important.

          • Exactly, Ernie!

            And even with many local elections now-a-days- one or all of the candidates are often funded by the likes of George Soros and other conduits of the “meshugganuh”… that unless you live in a tiny sparsely-populated rural county, even the local “representatives” are working for the tribe.

      • SPQ,

        “… like the false intel WMD israel gave to start Iraq war”.

        Everyone in the US intel community, military elite, political elite and corporate executives who profit from perpetual war, most of them white, knew the intel was false, I’ll call this group the power elite. They were not duped by the Jooos and manipulated into doing their bidding. They do so for their own nefarious interests and conspire with Israel to achieve them. Hilariously, the Jooos control everything narrative, that you and others promulgate, is enormously beneficial to this power elite, in the US and Israel.

        Here’s a few premises that shouldn’t be controversial for libertarians.

        – The interests of the power elite do not coincide with the interests of “regular” people.

        – The power elite will always insist that their interests do coincide with those of “regular” people, they are lying.

        – The power elite will use propaganda and exploit feelings of patriotism, honor, duty, etc… to convince “regular” people to go along.

        The US is not Israel’s bitch, the power elite in the US conspire with Israel to achieve their own ends. While it may seem that the US acts against its own interests, in favor of Israel’s, this perception is false. It only seems true if one suffers under the naive delusion that the power elite in the US acts in the interest of “regular” Americans, they do not. The rhetoric you and others here use, works in favor of that which you claim to despise because it reinforces a number of narratives that are essential to maintaining the insane, destructive and hegemonic US foreign policy, that benefits the power elite in Israel and the US. First, any criticism of Israel and its policies, is just antisemitism, masquerading as something else. Second, antisemitism, and racism in general, is resurgent and growing. Third, any criticism of the US’s special relationship with Israel is also just antisemitism masquerading as something else. The rhetoric you espouse helps the very people you despise, Nutanyahoo must thank God every day for folks like you. Can you really not see this?

        I’ve pointed this out before and Mark quipped that he doubted Nutanyahoo was reading this blog. That’s correct of course but, he’s certainly aware of the narrative, and its importance to his own interests, and probably does support the “work” of propaganda mills like the SPLC and the ADL. You see, people in these groups do read blogs, probably not this one, but that may change if the percentage of open Aryan warriors on the site increases, and exploit it relentlessly to keep the false narratives described above alive. These false narratives render any meaningful criticism of Israeli and US foreign policy toxic. Congratulations, your efforts give aid and comfort to your enemy.


        • It really is getting tiresome, Jeremy. There are plenty of places one can go for a dose of what these “aryan warrior” types are all about. Seeing them practically over-run a libertarian site is unfortunate. (In some cases I have seen the same people here as on “white power” sites – at least the same screen name and exact same word-for-word content suggests that.) On their own sites you can see them having discussions on how to bring their “message” of hate to the “normie web”. That seems to be what is happening here.

          Even more unfortunate would be for people curious about libertarianism finding their way here and concluding that it has anything to do with the hatred these guys are preaching. Granted I have a good ol’ time scratching the surface and bringing out their true nature when it would probably be best to just ignore them, but these days it seems every other post here is the same tired rhetoric I’ve heard from that crowd for decades.

          Aryan warriors pretty much destroy any site that descent upon. It would be difficult at this point to recommend this one to anyone who wants to learn about libertarianism.

          • Should have been “Aryan warriors pretty much destroy any site that they descend upon.” Really need at least a time-limited editor here!

          • Hi Jason,

            “… when it would probably be best to just ignore them”.

            I wonder if they would go away if we just ignored them, I doubt it. I agree with Eric’s policy of open discussion and don’t think he will, or should, change it. That said, I keep commenting because I think it’s important to counter bad ideas. I try to be somewhat polite, but I doubt that earns me any brownie points.


            • I don’t think Eric’s open discussion policy should be changed either, it’s just unfortunate that these “aryan warriors” tend to zero in on places like this to spread their vile hatred.

              Speaking of site policy, I have to laugh at that one white supremacist turd “The Bobbie” or whatever he calls himself, accusing me of being “anti-white” for pointing out a few facts and repeatedly trying to order me off the site – as though he had any moral authority or ability to do so. This is Eric’s joint and he is the one makes the rules here. (If Eric himself asked me to tone it down or to even “GTFO” I would.)

              You are correct that the important thing is to counter the lies, distortions, and bad ideas these guys promote and show them up for what they are, and point out for people who run across this site that they do not in any way represent libertarian values or philosophy.

              • Man, you arrogance know no bounds does it?

                You continually pontificate as though you are the final arbiter of right and wrong, as well as somehow know who is an Aryan by nothing more than a forum post.

                • More like who cares who’s an “Aryan”?

                  You want a fact? Here’s a fact. The aryans – the real ones – were so indifferent to blood ties that they frequently had no idea who they really were. They happily bought and sold their own children, adopted from conquered tribes, lied to each other and the world… sometimes, entire clans would be made up of people who had no idea who they really were.

                  So you want to be aryan? Stop caring who’s an aryan. It wouldn’t have mattered to them anyway. Boom, problem solved.

                  • Amen, Chuck.

                    Identity politics is poison – whether it’s left or right-oriented. Individual rights can’t be defended except on the basis of individual self-ownership which is the antithesis of identity politics. I am not better off if oppressed by fellow “aryans” any more than a black guy is better off if he’s oppressed by another black guy.

                    I prefer no one is oppressed – by anyone!

                    • Amen, Eric!

                      It always comes down to the group vs. the individual…and the individual always loses!

                      The overlords seem to love groups; they can pit one against another, and even if “your group” wins (as in D’s vs. R’s, for one example) YOU still lose.

                    • Nunz, I think Aristotle said it best.

                      “The three aims of the tyrant are, one, the humiliation of his subjects; he
                      knows that a mean-spirited man will not conspire against anybody; two, the
                      creation of mistrust among them; for a tyrant is not to be overthrown until men
                      begin to have confidence in one another — and this is the reason why tyrants
                      are at war with the good; they are under the idea that their power is
                      endangered by them, not only because they will not be ruled despotically, but
                      also because they are too loyal to one another and to other men, and do not
                      inform against one another or against other men — three, the tyrant desires
                      that all his subjects shall be incapable of action, for no one attempts what is
                      impossible and they will not attempt to overthrow a tyranny if they are
                      — Aristotle

                      Regardless of the source of tyranny, whether it be our current oligarchy or a Fuhrer, it’s all the same.


                  • Is that a fact?

                    Here’s another one: Looking to others, to “blood ties” your shoe laces (doubly goofy since every one is related to every other one) – or promulgating such an “argument” – guarantees (but for co•incidental broke clock situations, maybe) ignorance of who one is.

                    “We” ain’t no one. “We”’s the storm that swirls around, patches & blinds, the I.

                    Was watching Dave Chappelle do his white people disparagement sprinkled routine, his cuz we wuz slaves sprinkled routine.

                    He says he left, moved to S Africa for a time (now he’s in Ohio, apparently). He says he didn’t know who he was or where he came from. Cuz white people.

                    Well, he knows where, on which planet, he was born. He knows his parents. He knows of his grandparents. He knows he’s got whiter shade o’ paler people in the close-by woodpile. He knows what has happened in his life, what he’s done.

                    But, poor baby’s makin’ too much $, other income, from poor baby.

                    ((“Nobody puts baby in a corner”? Haha: Since when have babies not 4-cornered the market on cornering themselves, & each other? “Go stand in the corner,” which is actually not to move at all for too many, is punishment, alright. But dishonest dunce punishers ain’t ever gonna’ put cogdis in the corner instead & recognize\admit whose doin’ the punishing – their own selves. Corners are inside the lines “jobs.” Makework. Busy(body)ness. Waste lot, want not except\were it not that waste begets insatiable utopian {or dystopian as case may be} want. Bastiat those corner windows, babies!))

                    Chappelle has all the pieces. But refuses, is incapable, so not culpable – despite he ain’t dumb…but ain’t dumb don’t necessarily, nor even all that often, mean smart (just look around) — to put it together.

                    Because\contributory “it doesn’t suck” that the victim vein is too material-rich.

                    And this victim, like a lotta’ victims, gets to also gobble victimizer bonus cherries, too. Life sentence is good, say institutional wo\man. Cue Helen Reddy.

                    Vics & vicizers dunno’ the who-are, but they are well oiled practitioners of circumcising each others skulls.

                    They get away with skullskinning because too many, the sound that surrounds, are vv’s, which makes it seem\appear that all’s proper & nobody’s getting’ away with anything at all.

                    It’s just a red dot injun caste system o’ characters…outta’ which comes projected laser sight red dots.

                    Plus, even too many or most who aren’t loud vv’s are still followin’ after this that or the other teller (& Penn), & so dunno’ who they are, either.

                    “Tell me who I am” puts the closest thing to the power of “god” into the teller’s hands.

                    Tellers are vics who lemons to lemonade victimization. Round & round the citrus rolls.

                    This really is a poorly put together, hair of the vodka-oj screwdriven dog-returnin’-to-its-vomit swallowin’, species.

                    • Ozzy, I must agree. listen to the fake news Trump depends on.

                      I didn’t want war in Vietnam but I wasn’t asked, simply told. Nothing’s changed…..unfortunately.

                    • Eight…

                      Well, “change,” is taken for granted.
                      By science, with the questionable & brittle theory of evolution (not to mention very brittle cheerleaders of\for the theory…evo questioners – “deniers” – are right up there with “climate deniers”).
                      By pseudoscience (or more obviously pseudo than the so-called “hard” sciences) like psychology & psychiatry.
                      By “political scientists” & politicians: “Hope & Change.”
                      By the superficial changes that the technology torrent disgorges.
                      By the seemingly apparent changes experienced throughout the life cycle.

                      Things taken for granted often, & maybe always, is indistinguishable from chanted, in the enchanted kingdom.

                      I guess it was Ronnie raygun that dusted off conscription. Was it Panama Canal saber rattling, or something else, going on about that time? Don’t remember & the browser’s – say hello to my leetle fren — not open (but I don’t care about the “details,” either – it is all the same “change.” Smedley Butler wrote about all that “change.” Any pup facing conscription, or thinking of “joining up” oughta read Butler’s book first.). So down to the post office I went. Didn’t occur to me, at the time, that I could choose otherwise.

                      & “didn’t occur” is a big part of what all the regimentation of public schooling is about. & the regimentation of citizenship is about. & the regimentation of culture is about.

                      We, we, we, suffocates I into submission – it’s the original & still the best Brazilian jiu-jitsu-slash-pub(l)ic wax…put ‘em to sleep & pipe in – glue back on all that ripped out hair narrative – dreams of “change” – & of being the heroic (even if only vicariously) agents of “change.”

                      Meanwhile, & more telling than the tales, the change in your pocket that used to be copper, silver, & gold has been “changed” into baser metals of\by\for baser mortals to chase after. Money has been “changed” into currency has been “changed” into digits. Buying & selling has been mostly “changed” into presenting plastic cards that represent the plastic medium of ex”change.” The medium is indeed the message.

                      Collateral. Good flick. Recall that bit of dialog. “You killed him?” “No, I shot him. Bullets & the fall killed him.”

                      This one objects to collateralizing muskmobiles. That one objects to collateralizing drone murder.

                      You say potayto gun bullets, they say fall-harvested potahto. Some say let’s call it what it is – all this zip gun collateralizing & ied financing – else call the whole thing off.

                      “It’s the collateralized, psychosocio, economy, stupid.” James Carville. That Clinton

                      Remember Carvel? I scream you scream we all scream for ice cream…& ever’body’s got their flavor faves of partially melted & soft served pasteurized & homogenized moojuice.

                      Fun: Roarke Capital Group owns Carvel. Firm’s named for Howard Roarke. The hardest of hard servers, from Rand’s The Fountainhead. They gots “the franchise,” among others (like 1-800-Radiator & A/C, CARSTAR, Maaco, Meineke, Merlin 200,000 Mile Shops, Xpress Lube, Take 5 Oil Change, Pro Oil Change, Econo Lube & Tune…among others).

                      Who’s motorized cycle is that? It’s a chopper, baby. Who’s chopper is that? Zed’s. Who is Zed? Zed’s – & the fountainhead he rode in on – dead, baby. Zed’s dead.

                      GI Joe citizens are collateral. And that hasn’t changed in all of history. But the GIJ’s are in on it, want it. They are not victims. They are coconspirators…cocooned…dreamin’ of metamorphosing, “changing,” into butterflies. Or, in the case of the exceptional ones, everywhere, are already butterflies, so dreamin’ instead (evolution!) of “changing” into bionic immortal butterflies.

                      Instead, & largely, they remain the flies in the buttermilk they always were…the dead guy on the LA train story, in Collateral, “ridin’” around all day, that nobody notices, since they’re pretty much dead already, too.

                      If it weren’t there to see, you could never make it up.

                      Always liked this song, over pop’d tho it is: Ronnie’s got a new gun (yep, that same Ronald raygun)… Now put your flags in the air and march them up and down…. S\he’s so mean but I don’t care I love her eyes and her wild, wild hair (that hairdo hadn’t been trumped, yet)…


                      hair, & genitals, removed 8… but that’s, mostly, the congenital condition of humanimal

                • If you want some err’ians, there ain’t no place like home, home on the Kansas plains o’ the interwebs. That spider weaved web democratized™ – accept no substitutes in night soil spreaders – ruby slippered head injured err like nuthin’ else. So far.

                  But the fletched error o’ reality seems evermore loosed in veni, vedi, vici virtualer & virtualer space, eh?

                  Smart Will Robinson was prolly a jew, but where’s the smarts in having an ambulatory Alexa “danger!danger!” all the damn time?

                  For the awed audience you say? Ah, I see. “Alexa, set the danger alarm for every 10 minutes.”

                  Them as cheeba chews jews is just one example of too many v-v-vendetta v-v’s to count. Them ain’t bot builders. Them’s just bots. And those Dots’ve bought the farm. In Kansas. Are kicking the cans. Which is to say their own asses.


      • BB, while I’m glad that the EV subsidy was stopped for now- I wouldn’t really even call it a bone- I mean, it’s not like the Federal budget is going to be cut by a corresponding amount; the budget was actually increased…as usual. The EV subsidy money will just be shunted elsewhere, to something that is likely even more egregious….like to the military or the pigs. So it’s really just a virtue signal…as much so as EVs themselves. It is “the right thing”….but ultimately has no effect, negative nor positive on us. Meanwhile, everything else that that money is being spent on, such as more militarization of the fuzz; bigger military budget; the many gun-control facets in the latest budget; other energy boondoggles, are all in perfect compliance with Agenda 2030.

        The tide is likely turning for EVs, as more people are starting to see the flaws; the high cost vs. limited function and short life (Freaking Teslas are falling apart already); the lack of infrastructure to power them; the long waits to charge, and now, even many states seriously increasing EV registration fees to make up for lost fuel taxes- the EV thing is likely nearing the end of it’s run, and at this point is just another political issue to polarize the two sides; another distraction that the overlords really don’t care about, ’cause they can achieve the same ends with ICE vehicles, as they already have, just by bogging them down with endless “saaaaaaaaaaaaaaftey” features, and delicate electronics and such which make them hiddeously expensiove and short-lived.

        • Nunz, I have to agree. It’s much like the old sayin about govt. It’ll break your leg, then give you crutches so you’re SOOO grateful. Same for the removal of that tax and a never before seen amount of debt Trump just signed. He’s an idiot. I’d rather read what he says than hear him. His voice grates on me to the point I can’t tolerate it. Fuckin yankee ahole.

  15. He has rolled back or eliminated more onerous regulations, red tape, and corp./gov scams than any other in 3 years that I can remember back to the Reagan days. Unfortunately, it’s a pimple compared to what is really needed.

    • Mostly he has stayed out of the way while the Fed used the repo to make the rich even richer.
      We won’t even get a dead cat bounce out of this one.

  16. The Dank God Emperor Strikes again!

    Wonder what else it’ll take to kill off the EV once and for all, I’ll do what I can to support that cause

      • They have always been nothing more than collateral damage, regardless of which part of the world. We will be more of the same unless we stop what is coming.

      • I was talking about the EV subsidies, but what he did with Salami or whoever was necessary

        He stop the leader from being usurped down the line, there’s some Kabuki theater and then things are stabilized behind the scenes

        Nunzio will probably disagree, but hey, Trump’s gotta do what he’s gotta do to ensure peace and show the rest of the world we’re not to be f***ed with

        • But Zane, what would they have done down there to affect us “up here” 😉 ? They wouldn’t be messing with us at all if we hadn’t been “down there” and screwing with them for nearly a century, to prevent them from retaliating against their terrorist neighbors- the Israelis?

          If we’d mind our own busy-ness in our own cunt-tree, therer aren’t too many people halfweay around the world who could mess with us…or would want to, eh?

          It’s always “What they’re doing (or about to do) to us”- but so far, we’re the only ones who have lobbed bombs, and overthrown governments, and occupied places that don’t belong to us….and then we complain when they want to retaliate- or even when they don’t, but we say that “they’re going to” because we consider it our right to redraw the map of their lands to the liking of Israel?

          • If Trump keeps to his current rate, he’ll have dropped more bombs by term end than the shrub and Bo combined. What a legacy for a “bring the troops home sorta guy”. I knew he was bullshitting. I could tell. His mouth was moving. Liar, liar, pants on fire.

            • Yep 8. That’s one reason I don’t vote. A vote for anyone (‘cept Ron Paul) is just an acceptance of their blatant BS, and a vote for yet more government and more evil, war, welfare, communism…etc.

              They can say whatever they want when they’re campaigning….there’s absolutely nothing to hold them to it or to stop them from doing the exact opposite of what they campaigned for….and that is exactly what always happens.

              There’s an interview of Trump on Youtube from some TV from 19-freaking-99, where Trump is ranting against Iran and saying “That ‘we’ have to do something because they are an ‘imminent danger’….

              I guess they waited for him to become president before resuming their dangerous behavior, ’cause they certainly hadn’t done anything in the intervening 20 years.

              Just goes to show you though how these prick politicians have agendas (certainly not their own)…and what their real intents are, and how they then create scenarios that allow them to fulfill the agendas which they wanted to pursue all along.

              Anyone think a vbote is going to change that?

              • Apparently when you take the oath of office to become prez, that’s followed by castration and some go overboard making up for it.

                • Whole lotta compensatory wo\man overboard in waterworld.

                  Saw the new docu on Linda Ronstadt. That Geffen character, the G in SKG (Spielberg & Katzenberg being the other two), & “Asylum” records, contra all obvious evidence otherwise, backhanded the praise & took undue credit for Rondstat.

                  Psychology of gotta’ justify the other undue takings…by adding to them.

                  Enough is often enough never enough, even – or especially — in the billionaire boys club.

                  • I came to the conclusion for billionaire psychology, there is never enough.

                    Yeah, they’ll give millions and even hundreds of millions away…..for something with their name on it but only if they’re making more billions.

              • Maybe they are hoping to be the first military ship to be sunk in the Strait of Hormuz since the commanders of the USS Abraham Lincoln had the sense to stay out of it.

  17. Well right up front you have to reduce the supposed range by a quarter or half just for a safety margin.

    When full of gas, my little car says it has 400++ mile range but I usually fill it by about half a tank on long trips.

    • Having managed a service station during the Arab oil embargo in the early 1970s, I follow the recommendation that the fuel tank never get below half if the fuel exists to fill it.


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