It’s Not How Far They Don’t Go . . .

73
2380
Print Friendly, PDF & Email

Most of the criticism of EVs focuses on their range – or rather, the lack thereof. And without doubt, it’s a problem. But that’s not the real problem, which can be shown easily enough by pointing to the fact that it’s never been a meaningful problem for thirsty gas engined cars.

Because it’s not a meaningful problem to get more gas.

The Hellcat Charger you can’t buy anymore because of government regulations that have forced it out of showrooms to make room for EVs had less range than almost any new EV.  Just 222 miles on a full tank. That is about 50 miles less range than the ’24 Hyundai Ioniq 6 I’m test driving this week.

But the Hellcat – rest in peace – could be driven farther in less time because it took about as long as it has for you to read this far to refill its tank. That is only a slight exaggeration.

As opposed to the indicated range remaining the EV says you have left.

The other day, I took the Ioniq for a drive. When I started out, the car’s range-remaining indicator said I could drive 197 miles. Well, after driving 46 miles, the range remaining indicator said 127 miles remaining. Which meant I lost 70 miles of indicated range, a difference of 24 miles not actually driven. This is not a small difference. And it is a meaningful problem – because of the time it takes to recover any meaningful charge.

Especially at home.

If you have had your garage wiring and your home’s electrical panel updated by an electrician to be capable of allowing for “Level II” (240V) charging, you can recover a full charge in about six hours. That’s awfully long to wait if you’re wanting to drive somewhere in the meanwhile. If you haven’t paid an electrician to update your home’s wiring, then you’ll be waiting a day or two to get back enough charge to be able to drive somewhere again – because that’s how long it takes to recover more than about 46 miles via “Level 1” (ordinary household outlet) charging.

Of course, you could drive to what is referred to as a “fast” charger, which is only fast in relation to how slow home-charging – even “Level II” charging – is. It takes about half an-hour or so at the “fastest” commercial high-voltage charger to recover a maximum of 80 percent of whatever the EV’s advertised fully charged range is claimed to be. So – in the case of the Ioniq – you would have about 216 miles of indicated driving range after “fast” charging. But – keep in mind – you probably have about 20-25 percent less actual driving range than that.

Especially if you turn on the AC.

When I did that, the indicated range remaining took an immediate dump from 172 miles to 166 miles – a loss of 6 miles of estimated driving range, before I’d even driven a few yards. The computer that calculates the range remaining adjusted the range remaining on the assumption that the battery would have to power the AC as well as the electric motors that propel the Hyundai. And this is probably why I ended up burning through 70 miles of indicated range remaining after just 46 miles of actual driving.

This left me with 127 miles of indicated range remaining by the time I got back home. Given how much actual range was consumed during this drive, the actual range remaining is probably more like 80 or so miles, which won’t take you far and – more importantly – isn’t much of a margin. It is not enervating to drive a Hellcat Charger down to the Low Fuel light coming on because you know you’ll be able to continue driving after stopping for a few minutes at a gas station. The Charger’s thirst is not a meaningful problem. A Charger can be driven as far as you need to go without it taking all day.

An EV can only be driven so far – so often – because it takes so long to get it ready to drive again. And that is a very meaningful problem. Electric vehicles can be described  – fairly – as Occasional Use Vehicles because of the time in between charging them that’s spent not driving them. Some will say you don’t wait more than the moment or two it takes to plug in at home. This is as absurd as it is untrue. Of course you’re waiting. You’re just doing something else while you wait. The wait remains. And if you need to do something – like drive somewhere, because something unexpectedly came up – then you’ll be very much aware of the meaningful problem you have tethered to an outlet in the garage.

Speaking of which. Another meaningful problem I’ve encountered with every EV I’ve even test driven (which encompasses most of the models currently on the market) is that if you leave them untethered when you’re not driving them, you’ll find the indicated range remaining is less than what it was when you parked it.

That’s because EVs burn energy – electricity – even when they’re not being driven. Chiefly, to power the EV’s thermal management system, which keeps the battery in the Goldilocks Zone (not too hot, not too cold) when the EV is parked. That’s why it’s a good idea to keep the EV always-tethered, because the loss of even 10 miles of indicated range is more of a meaningful problem when it takes so long to recover it.

This a problem that is not likely to ever be solved.

The best that can be hoped for is to increase the actual (not indicated) driving range of EVs to 400 miles or more, which would compensate a little bit for all the waiting EV owners will still have to put up with.

But this will not solve the underlying problem – which is figuring out how to get an EV fully charged in the same time it takes to fully refuel a gas-engined car. That is not likely to ever happen, due to the problems (plural) that attend “pumping” extremely high voltage electricity that quickly. Plus the problems that attend generating all the high-voltage electricity that would be necessary and having it at-the-ready at “fast” charging stations as conveniently situated as gas stations, particularly in out-of-the-way places.

Maybe it will happen. Maybe light-speed travel will happen, too.

But whether it’s likely to happen is the more relevant conversation.

. . .

If you like what you’ve found here please consider supporting EPautos. 

We depend on you to keep the wheels turning! 

Our donate button is here.

 If you prefer not to use PayPal, our mailing address is:

EPautos
721 Hummingbird Lane SE
Copper Hill, VA 24079

PS: Get an EPautos magnet or sticker or coaster in return for a $20 or more one-time donation or a $10 or more monthly recurring donation. (Please be sure to tell us you want a magnet or sticker or coaster – and also, provide an address, so we know where to mail the thing!)

If you like items like the Baaaaaa! baseball cap pictured below, you can find that and more at the EPautos store!

 

 

 

73 COMMENTS

  1. The more articles I read about EV’s and their touted range-and then compare that to their real-world range, I have to wonder if these pro-EV folks are merely pulling numbers out of their you-know-what’s? There seems to be zero science behind any of it. “Oh, we will just say this Tesla EV has 400 miles of range, when really, it sucks, and has maybe 100 miles if you are having a good day. But hey, you will not figure that out until you are suckered into buying it”.

    • Hi Shadow,

      Here’s my evaluation, based on my own experiences with EVs: They do really well in stop-and-go “city” driving – and most of the soy boy reviewers are “city” boys. So they get the advertised mileage. But it’s disingenuous because it’s only valid in stop-and-go “city” driving. Every single EV I have driven – dozens of them – delivers about 20 percent less-than-advertised range when driven at “highway” speeds, without much stopping in between. The range really goes down if you drive significantly faster than 60 or so MPH, as it costs more energy to maintain 75-80. Add AC. Add hills.

      The take-home point being what we already know: EVs are functional as short-range/low-speed “city” cars. Their practicality plummets if they are expected to be able to regularly take you any distance at highway speeds.

  2. Rant of an ancient Boomer rock star (no, not yours truly) shaking his fist at uppity young whippersnappers:

    ‘John Mellencamp was in the middle of a story when a heckler in the audience shouted: “Just Play Some Music!”

    Mellencamp responded: “What do you think I’ve been doing you (expletive).”

    “Here’s the thing man, you don’t know me,” the musician said, adding, “You don’t (expletive) know me.” He told the concert-goers, “Find this guy [heckler] and let me see him after the show.”

    Mellencamp told the audience, “Tell you what I’m going to do, since you have been so wonderful, I’m going to cut about ten songs out of the show.”

    He then started playing “Jack and Diane,” one of his hit songs from the early 1980s that was number one on the Billboard Hot 100 for four weeks.

    About 15 seconds into the song, he said, “You know what, the show is over.”

    https://tinyurl.com/3nan47p4

    Saw the same thing happen a few years ago at a Ryan Adams concert at Town Hall in New York City. A heckler pissed him off. So despite a capacity crowd stomping for an encore, he just walked out and left them hanging for a perfect, empty-stage anticlimax.

    Like quisling auto makers, aging rock (and progressive country) stars forget that the customer is king.

    All of them, collectively and comprehensively, can kiss my ass.

  3. (I’ll preface my comment by saying I am not an EV lover and would never voluntarily own one) BUT what about this slow-charging solution….

    Make the EV cars in such a way that some of the batteries can be swapped out at charging stations. Maybe some always stay in the bottom frame due to weight but put some in the trunk or under the hood that can be unplugged and then fresh, full batteries plugged in instead? Kinda like swapping propane tanks. Return the depleted batteries when you pick up fresh ones so they can be recharged leisurely. Might also help resell value of the car if the batteries aren’t all worn out at the same time? Or maybe this is a stupid idea and I need some wine.

    • No thanks. Sounds like a real pain in the backside. Who wants to swap out batteries. Just changed the battery on our Lincoln and I cant see myself ever doing that every time I want to “fill up.”

      Even the side by side EVs they now sell at Tractor supply seem like way more $$$ than they’re worth. IIRC about 10 grand, for a glorified golf cart with ludicrous speed.

    • This is the only thing I think has a chance of making them viable. Not sure it will be able to be done cost effectively though.

    • The battery swapping idea has never gained much traction, which makes sense, because it’s not a solution to the charging time problem, but merely a clumsy workaround that doesn’t address the underlying problem, while adding a few extra problems of its own.

      First of all, there’s nothing that magically makes a battery charge less slowly when it’s outside of the car, so the charging time problem remains.

      Second, in order for there to be enough fully charged batteries for peak demand, the swapping stations need to have a stock of extra batteries to compensate, which requires a greater supply of raw materials to build those batteries, and money to finance their purchase.

      Third, batteries are one of the most expensive parts of an EV, and they are prone to degradation, and so swapping the EV battery potentially means getting a worse battery, so there would be an element of lottery in using the service. Who would want to gamble with such an expensive part? One potential “solution” would be to rent batteries instead, but that only means that people in reality won’t own their EVs and will have to rely on a willing third party to rent a vital component of their EVs, which will not work otherwise.

      Fourth, as long as there are different batteries for different EVs, swapping stations need to have a stock of batteries for different models, which will be very expensive and not feasible, so in reality it will have to be limited to a select few models (which will change over time). Standardising batteries, on the other hand, would potentially lead to lack of innovation (which might arguably be a moot point, since there’s little innovation to be seen in the EV space, but in theory this would be an issue).

      So I don’t see how battery swapping stations would solve anything, or why it’s still being proposed as a solution, when it clearly isn’t one.

    • Hi SJ,

      I know you mean well, so this reply is not meant in a disparaging way. Why are we continuing to try to find “solutions” to make something “work” that isn’t necessary? The solution is to abandon what does not work – and go back to what does. EVs are inferior if the defining criteria are practicality and cost. It is a kind of madness to target fixate on rationalizing a vehicle that costs twice as much that goes half as far that requires five times as long (best case) to recover the charge-equivalent of a third of a tank of gas.

      It’s like wearing a Face Diaper on one’s chin.

      Enough!

      • No “solution” ever came from the government or regulation. By pushing current technology they pretty much starve out the possibility of better tech. Who knows how many great ideas are out there but you have government pushing and subsidizing and punishing.
        Government is inhabited by people who for the most part have never operated in business, never had to balance a budget, never had make payroll and could always cover up their failures with more spending of other peoples money.
        Who knows maybe the perfect EV design is sitting out there in someones head, but they will never get a chance to develop it because government staves out everything but their own choices.
        This is not limited to EV’s either. everything the government touches turns to excrement.
        The real root of virtually all of our unsolvable problems is that festering pustule of corruption Blogington DC. Wall that place off and things will improve immediately.

  4. Some will say you don’t wait more [for the EV to charge] than the moment or two it takes to plug in [the EV charger] at home. This is as absurd as it is untrue. Of course you’re waiting. You’re just doing something else while you wait. The wait remains.

    Amen! I’ve lost count of how many times people have told me that it only takes a few seconds for them to charge their EV, which is obviously BS, but I think some of them actually have been brainwashed to the point where they genuinely believe it. It’s a testament to the power of propaganda, I guess, and EV drivers seem to have an abnormal susceptibility to it – that’s probably why they’re driving EVs in the first place…

  5. EV’s work better in China…..

    China’s modern infrastructure is twenty years old, with the majority built over the last 15. EVs work under those circumstances. Plus China has no problem with building coal power plants to satisfy demands.

    Cities like Guangzhou and Donguan have actually lost thousands of factories to other areas in Asia and cheaper places in China. Reducing power demands. The country also very wisely banned Bitcoin mining, which burns terawatts of energy.

    NOTE:…..Most Chinese only drive a few miles everyday.

    EVs are a pipe dream for the USA. The entire power grid needs to be replaced and 90% of the existing homes have no ability to add fast chargers. The average commute is also almost 30 miles. An EV is completely impractical as most buyers have figured out.

    • EV’s work better in China…..

      EVs charge slowly in China, just like they do everywhere else.

      The entire [US] power grid needs to be replaced and 90% of the existing homes have no ability to add fast chargers.

      100 % of all homes have no ability to add fast chargers, because fast chargers do not exist!

      • 80% of the batteries and the important parts for EV’s come from China…..

        They are the only ones benefiting from these lithium fire bomb abortions…they should keep them there…..

        Anybody promoting EV’s is a CCP supporter…..

        Musk is CCP?…lol….and all the control group politicians….

  6. The ice Golf isn’t dead yet?…..

    Sales of Volkswagen’s electric vehicles have declined by nearly 25% in Europe, with a noticeable shift back to gasoline-powered cars amid waning interest in battery-operated models

    In contrast, sales of traditional combustion engine vehicles rose by 4%, approaching two million units.

    The report notes that demand for electric vehicles has dipped as governments in Europe reduce subsidies…and soften ambitious goals to phase out petrol and diesel cars.

    (subsidies….stealing money from tax slaves…then giving it to rich parasites to buy an environment destroying, road destroying, $50,000 EV)….

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/returning-petrol-volkswagen-ev-sales-plunge-25-europe

  7. Damn EV could mean death out West. I’ve travelled many roads on the motorcycle that were pavement and sagebrush, literally no towns, no cell signal, nothing for 100 plus miles. Often signs “no gas for the next xxx miles”

    Think you’ve got the battery range based on that dash readout? Good luck when it’s 108 and the a/c is cranking. Battery quits out there & you better hope someone comes along soon. Hope you’re smart enough to carry a satellite phone in that EV!

  8. The technological aspect of charging a car quickly can be solved. We have all kinds of technologies to explore like flow batteries or super capacitors, which aren’t yet ready for cars, but maybe one day, they will be. A flow battery contains two liquids instead of solid electrodes, so you can drain it and fill it with “charged” liquids. Supercapacitors can absorb power as fast as you can deliver it, but they don’t have good capacity like a battery.

    Anyhow, say this problem is solved on the car, we have the bigger problem that our entire infrastructure is rotting, electrical included. It’s quite shocking to me. Our grid was built a generation ago, the roads and bridges were built two generations ago, and our government can’t even seem to maintain those. When it comes to electricity, the eco-Nazis protest every power plant or transmission line, but we’re going to need lots of those things for EV’s. Now, if you have some car that can charge 100kWh in 5 minutes, that’s a charge rate of 1.2MW, which is a tremendous amount of power. If you take something like a gas station that can fuel 8 cars at a time, imagine the peak load it can generate. I also drive to the boonies quite frequently, as I have a mountain cabin. Electric service up there is unreliable, so we all have generators, but getting gas is no problem, because a gas station can function as long as a gas truck can make it up there once in a while. you can’t deliver electricity with trucks, not efficiently anyhow, so the locations of your charging stations will be limited.

    I have no issue with EV’s. As a transportation appliance, they are fine. I’ve driven my neighbor’s Rivians and Lucids and Teslas and they’re all really cool in some way, but none of them fits my usage demands nor my budget. Both kinds of cars should simply be allowed to compete in the market, and we’ll eventually have much better variants of both.

    • Yeah, except we don’t have a real market. The “market” is being driven by the demands of government emissions and safety standards, which are now producing more dangerous vehicles today than at any time since the middle 1990s.

      I do have a problem with electric vehicles as they are being pushed as a means to an end.

      The EPA is manipulating fuel mileage standards to remove the choices of ICE vehicles. There is no “free market” at work by any stretch

      • We agree on that 100%. I want to see things compete on merit, not subsidies or mandates, and I, too, am completely against EV incentives or mandates of any sort.

    • The power grid is designed to transmit electricity from sources to loads. The loads are generally designed for connection to the power grid, aside from a few battery devices that trade reliably for portability.

      The gasoline distribution network is designed for centralized production, distributed distribution points, and for transportation. Yes, there are fringe uses such as backup power generation and off grid heat using propane primarily.

      Neither are built to take on the task of the other.

    • The technological aspect of charging a car quickly can be solved. We have all kinds of technologies to explore like flow batteries or super capacitors, which aren’t yet ready for cars, but maybe one day, they will be.

      The solution is always just around the corner… or so we’re told. It’s like crying wolf, after a while nobody believes it anymore.

    • ‘If you have some car that can charge 100kWh in 5 minutes, that’s a charge rate of 1.2MW’ — OppositeLock

      You’re not kidding. A modern home with a 200-amp, 240-volt main panel can deliver 48 kW.

      So our hypothetical 5-minute-charging EeeVee, at 1,200 kW, requires the peak power of 25 mini-mansions. And since houses virtually never consume peak power — whereas five-minute charging definitely will — realistically we’re talking 50 houses worth of power.

      Make a gas station sized charging plaza with 20 charge points, and you need the electrical capacity of a thousand houses, with perhaps 3,000 residents.

      As you say, it’s a fantasy to think that the grid can accommodate the addition of hundreds of such charging plazas. Electric utilities already are overwhelmed with AI data centers sucking up all the capacity they’ve got, and more besides.

      Suddenly, pimping EeeVees no longer fits their agenda. Watch utilities quietly backpedal, as they turn their focus to meeting demand which is swamping them, while they struggle with financial capacity and the regulatory morass.

  9. There is hope on the horizon that sanity just might be returning – a little. Maybe from duress but I’ll go with it. Hopefully they will resurrect the Passat and de-geek the GTI

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-electric-car-sales-plunge-122915038.html

    Next we need to get the car companies to ditch the moronic saaaaafety garbage. My wife’s Macan went in for the first free service, they did an “update” you can no longer disable the Lane Change Annoyance (Assistance) sound. The Germans need top pull their heads out of their asses and return to the roots.

    I used to love buying a new car. It’s a fetish for me, but I keep them a long time, typically 200k miles or so. Sometime tells me I will be holding onto my ’14 Cayenne Diesel for a lot longer than I planned. The only “assist” it has is blind spot alert, which driving in Florida is not unwelcome, but it is easily disabled.

    • Change your Driver’s Mirror Glass to Aspheric and the Blind Spot is eliminated. While you’re at it, change the Passenger Mirror Glass to the rest-of-the-world Glass so each time you use it, you don’t have to read that idiotic warning saying you are too stupid to know how a Convex Mirror reflects.

      • I leave it disabled most of the time. On mine I can disable traction control, as well as PSM which is pretty cool and works well but I disabled it on the couple of track days for max engagement

  10. I can’t for the life of me see any advantage EVs have over ICVs. Except “ludicrous” acceleration. Of course I never bought into the “end of the world” climate change male bovine excrement either. Even if I had, EVs do nothing to solve it.

    • JK writes…”I can’t for the life of me see any advantage EVs have over ICVs.”

      It’s because you’re looking at it wrong, John…it’s not what is to your advantage, it’s for what is advantageous for (((them)))…

      Let’s count the ways, shall we???…
      1. Limited range, long refueling time,
      2. Extremely expensive, no way to work on them except professional shops/high cost repairs, parts cost/availability,
      3. Extremely dangerous/fire hazards/etc…

      I could go on all day, but others already have, and much clearer and prolifically.

      It’s really all just about control of you, yours, and all the other Goyim, period.

      Always remember, YOU are the carbon (((THEY))) want recycled!!!

  11. I think about how much & how fast my neck of Dixie has grown. Power used to be the one thing we had plenty of because of TVA. Lots of industries, carpetbaggers, illegals now live here and the power grid hasn’t changed one iota.

    Last year we had some blackouts during the high heat of summer. EVs would bring the system to its knees.

    Sometimes I look around my little house and wonder why the oven and microwave draw power for the clock. They really don’t need clocks per se. The two teeeveees both draw power so the little red LED can be illuminated. Ditto the computer monitors and the printer / scanner. All the GFI outlets have an LED illuminated as well. Why? I realize it’s miniscule but add millions of appliances drawing power unnecessarily 24x7x365 and the cumulative effect may well be pronounced.

    • You missed the fad several years back of “power vampires”? Yes, all these little loads add up to a huge waste- the TV instant ON circuitry, all the cordless appliance chargers, all the unnecessary clocks, do in fact add up to a huge waste. But instead they are after our cars (and our guns). It’s not about power conservation, it’s about political power.

      • And political “power” now includes keeping all those spy cams and mics juiced up 24/7, as the political vampires need these devices to keep tabs on us. Much like today’s “smart” vehicles amd traffic cams.

  12. That is the butt-ugliest dashboard display I have ever seen. Even square-headed, off-planet Microsoft coders could do better.

    If an eighth-grader aspiring to a graphic design career turned in this pathetic effort to me, I’d tell them to consider a different career.

    Having been accustomed to tasteful analog gauges, would you spend years having to glance at the Ioniq’s insipid digital dog’s breakfast?

    HELL NO. Its ugliness is not merely skin deep. That p.o.s. is ugly clear down to its anodes and cathodes. Burn it with cleansing fire!

    • There is an epidemic of ugliness on dashboards these days. The new Porsches are all touch panels, cheap looking and ugly as crap. Now there is a fetish for putting super gigantic screen that look like your glued and iPad to the dash instead of a clean integration.

  13. I agree with people who say that people who WANT to buy an EV should have the option of buying one. However, when governments and the billionaire psychopaths who’ve infiltrated them try to FORCE EVs on literally everyone who drives an automobile, that’s when they go too far. It’s like when these experimental mRNA jabs rolled out in late 2020. People who WANTED to try taking an experimental pharma product were free to do so, but when government tried to FORCE people to take it in order to keep a job or go to public places, that was also when government went too far.

    As for subsidies for people to buy an EV, it would be interesting to see who actually takes them……uber wealthy elitist liberals trying to virtue signal to the climate change zealots, or people who aren’t as well off.

  14. No one would consider the Hellcat a practical form of transportation. One of the long running jokes on the old Top Gear series was when one of the boys would choose a gas hog or tourer with seriously undersized gas tank and have to make frequent fuel stops. Then have to play catch up to the others, which of course made it harder to manage fuel.

    The Hyundai is being sold as an all-around vehicle, not an exotic supercar. But if EVs can’t get the range thing figured out (and there are many “promising” lab experiments from well funded researchers), maybe the basic transportation could make the transition to electric, for some who are in the suburbs and have a driveway or garage for charging. But even with ~600 mile range you’re still in that situation where you need a road trip vehicle too.

    My commute is much longer than average and I fill up the 15 gallon tank 2X a week. On a road trip of any distance I fill up every 250 miles or so, because I don’t like to dry out the fuel pump.* 600 miles will get me a pretty good distance on one hop, but it would have to be a true 600 miles, not some oddball YMMV estimate based on a calculation. Until that happens, there’s no deal.

    *Yea, I know keeping a little fuel in the tank is to prevent the pump from overheating. Don’t show off your brain by trying to correct me. It’s called wit.

    • Hi RK,

      Well, other than the cost of feeding it, the Hellcat is a very practical vehicle. It is a big, comfortable car that can be comfortably driven across several states without having to stop more than a couple of times for a couple of minutes to refuel. No EV can do this.

      • This is why i think this ev mandate ultimately won’t happen in the US. Unlike the shots, where people initially were fooled into believing they were getting something helpful and good, people have already figured out the problem with evs and they will not be giving up their freedom. I don’t know how it will end but I belieive will end before the mandate takes effect. We might look like Cuba for a while but we will still have gas cars.

      • The Hellcat is also FUN to drive. You’re going to be cooped up and behind the wheel, why not ENJOY it? Hard to do so with an APPLIANCE.

        I think this is why, in the Star Trek ‘verse, even though their replicator tech is so incredibly advanced that a bewildered USAF Air Policeman (who looks rather old for an E-6) can be served hot chicken soup right in the transporter room where he’s being kept. Presumably said replicator is, in effect, a high-tech dumbwaiter, used for other things than simply serving lunch to the transporter chief. Or how, about a century later, a latter-day drunken Irishman can be served REAL whiskey (and not that “synthehol bitter”), “deleterious effects” and all, even though it has no “bite” (e.g., lacks the subtle impurities that flavor the whiskey Danilo appreciates), but it also makes a strong Klingon beverage, funky metal ribbed cup and all, which the Irish lush appreciates as a “wee nip o’ the creature!”. Indeed, kitchens and the art of cooking still exist, as is evidenced by the success of “Sisko’s” in 24th century “Nawlins”, although, since by that time, Federation citizens no longer pursue wealth, but simply “improve themselves”, what, pray tell, do Joseph Sisko’s patrons PAY him with, or how does he pay his suppliers, or the electric bill, or property taxes, and so on?

        It might seem silly to debate the economics of Star Trek, but it’s even sillier that those that believe it’s possible, even likely, make moronic decrees to impose their pipedreams like EVs.

      • “ It is a big, comfortable car that can be comfortably driven across several states without having to stop more than a couple of times for a couple of minutes to refuel “

        Yep! The last long haul comfort cruiser was our ‘05 Grand Cherokee. Front suspension a M. Benz influence so perfect tracking and response, seats were still old school Chrysler. Hemi V8 with the grunt to pull long steep grades on the interstate still in top gear and the torque converter locked. I made the trip from central Wa to Souix Falls SD totally happy after several 10 hour driving days. 19 ish for mileage was fine, there’s more to life behind the wheel than gas mileage!

      • Gets a little tricky shoving the kids into the back seat (see yesterday’s rant about the decline of bench seats and the simple hook to lock the seat back outlawed for adult child safety seats).

    • *Yea, I know keeping a little fuel in the tank is to prevent the pump from overheating.

      Couldn’t resist…

      The main reason for not draining your tank too much is due to all of the junk in the bottom of the tank getting sucked into the fuel system. Never go below 1/8.

      • It can be both. It was fairly common for the HP fuel pump on VW TDI vehicles to “die suddenly” and VW would always deny warranty claims citing dirty fuel. Most of the victims could show they bought fuel from respectable retailers and a few said they dropped the tank and found no debris. One thing that quickly became suggestion was that you never let the tank go low or the pump would overheat. Might not matter as much for other drivetrains, but why take the chance?

  15. This is why I cant think anyone would want to have only evs in their garage. One of the most basic freedoms a car provides is the ability to get in the car and go. You barely have to think about it and it really provides the wonderful light sensation that you’re free. Even if today you’re only running over to Target to pick up a few things after dinner. Or planning the best route thru LA traffic to get to work. Next month you could take a drive with the family up the coast or to another state to visit your relatives. People take this ability for granted.
    When the dog needs to be rushed to the vet or one your child needs to be taken to urgent care, you just damn well expect the car will be the very last thing you need to worry about.
    Once this ability is taken from people there will be a huge change in the way people feel. No one ever talks about this but it will be a very big deal.

    • Absolutely, RS –

      Like so many things, the easy freedom to just go anywhere you like, whenever you like has been taken as a given by all-too-many people. They are in for a rude awakening.

      • This is why i think this ev mandate ultimately won’t happen in the US. Unlike the shots, where people initially were fooled into believing they were getting something helpful and good, people have already figured out the problem with evs and they will not be giving up their freedom. I don’t know how it will end but I belieive will end before the mandate takes effect. We might look like Cuba for a while but we will still have gas cars. And the other thing is this 15 minute city shit is not gonna fly especially in the fly over states. Not in a million years.

      • Yep. As a young kid fighting the 55 mph speed limit in the middle 1980s, I was stunned uncovering the apathy and complacency of the American public regarding the right to drive.

        I knew there was an anti-car movement at an earlier age. My own brother would bring home books like the “Closing Circle,” “Small is Beautiful,” and much later, “The Geography of Nowhere” and “The HIgh Cost of Free Parking” for me to read. Early on, I was revulsed by them, later, just angry. I knew the anti-car movement was alive, well, and growing due to Ralph Nader, his off spring group, Public Citizen , the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and their other lobbying progenies. I was aware of the impact of these groups by the end of college, Nader, much earlier.

        Nader wasn’t the only one. There was this guy Haddon, who wrote up something called the Haddon Matrix which became the blue print for every anti-car initiative outside of “environmental concerns,” which Nader was involved with as well.

        Over the last few years, I have become increasingly skeptical of arguing on their grounds and the left’s contextual interpereation of anything.

        I’m done. I want leaded gas and metal dasbords, fatality rate be damned. My contention is that highways would have become safer regardless, not that I honestly care. There is absolutely nothing on this earth more important to me than my right to drive.

        • AMEN BROTHER! But maybe not leaded gas- heavy metal poisoning is a real thing. I remember the infuriated burning outrage of my first speeding ticket- you are surveilling me, wasting my time, and robbing me at gun point when I have done NOTHING wrong? Because I drove faster than an arbitrary number on a sign in a universe expanding at hundreds of thousands of miles per second? Apparently cops ARENT the heroes we were told in school.

    • Kids reality has mostly cancelled “get up n go” in all ways shapes and forms. 40 yo daughter drives what was considered normally in ’83. Those born after around ’90 have adopted thier new normal.

      34 yo son last drove a car in 2015.
      His same age friend has never driven a car. Grandson only got license and moms old car at 20 to commute to college. Too many more examples to list.

      All ready for lockdown 10 minute lives. They NEVER put down the device. The poor kids.

  16. EV’s are make-believe vehicles. You are supposed to believe that they aren’t make-believe.

    Say it’s only a paper moon
    Sailing over a cardboard sea
    But it wouldn’t be make-believe
    If you believed in me

    Yes, it’s only a canvas sky
    Hanging over a muslin tree
    But it wouldn’t be make-believe
    If you believed in me

    It’s a Barnum and Bailey world
    Just as phony as it can be
    But it wouldn’t be make-believe
    If you believed in me

    It’s phony, it’s plain to see
    How happy I would be
    If you believed in me
    – Ella Fitzgerald, It’s Only a Paper Moon

    • Or James Darren as “Vic” in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Also the title of a last-season episode where the little Ferengi, Nog, a Starfleet junior officer, having been badly injured and losing part of one leg, is skittish about returning to duty, so he takes his convalescence in his Uncle Quark’s holosuite, where he immerses himself at Vic’s 1962 Las Vegas casino. Nog gets so caught up in it that he stays there for several weeks, involving himself in the management of the casino, employing his Ferengi-type financial acumen to make the establishment more profitable (“holodeck profits”?). The young counselor, LTJG Ezri Dax (Nicole DeBoer), aka “Lt Fook-Toy”, subtly lets Vic know it’s time for Nog to return to reality, and Vic reluctant agrees, as he knows the fantasy has gone on far too long, so he terminates the program, much to Nog’s disappointment. Nog reluctantly admits that whether he continues in Starfleet service or not, he needs to face the real world as it is. Probably one of the best Star Trek episodes to date.

      • I loved that episode. Great writing and great acting. Aaron Eisenberg was wonderful as Nog. I also loved James Darren as the holographic lounge singer with a heart.

  17. The only “solution” to this problem is to have easily changed battery packs much like the battery on a cordless drill.

    When the battery runs down on my DeWalt 18v impact I merely pop out the dead one, put the one from the charger in and charge the dead one. Simple.

    If you had a universal battery pack that could be changed out and put on a charging carrousel with a freshly charged unit slipped in place you could theoretically solve the wait time. However, the stations that would need to be built would be massive, holding perhaps 1,000 or more packs being charged. This along with the humongous electrical requirement and getting a “universal battery pack” accepted globally makes this rather impractical.

    I didn’t say it would work, I said it could work. It would make your Rube Goldburg picture above look like the simplicity of an anvil by comparison.

    • Hi Mark.

      While a quick change battery pack is a great idea it looks like the battery packs in EVs are all located under the car body. To make a fast change battery practical you would be looking at something like the Maverick but where the battery would be lowered into a pinned mount with weather pack style connectors. This of course would result in a more top heavy design. And I’m sure we all remember the last time Ford built a top heavy SUV with all the problems that resulted if you had underinflated tires.

      • I remember reading a Popular Science magazine article in the 1980s that predicted EVs in 1997. There were automated robotic battery stations that swapped out batteries.

        You’d need lots of batteries, a way to test them and take bad ones out for repair/replacement, a high voltage and amperage power supply, and trained professionals as overseers of the equipment.

      • Hi Landru,

        My idea would involve driving over an opening and having the battery pack lowered via a mechanical device and conveyored to the charging carrousel. The carrousel would move one space thus providing a fully charged pack which would then be raised into position.

        However, it’s an overly complex solution to a problem that has arisen to solve a nonexistent problem.

    • Also wait until one of those things has an “opps” or maybe a lightning strike. The show would be awesome, from a safe distance.

    • Mark, you raise some interesting points, particularly with regards to standardization.

      Right now, EVs made today DO NOT have standardized plugs, and not all chargers will work with all EVs.

      If the plugs can’t (or more appropriately, won’t) be standardized, would standardizing the batteries be easier?

    • The only “solution” to this problem is to have easily changed battery packs much like the battery on a cordless drill.

      It’s not so much a solution as a clumsy workaround. (But I suppose you wrote “solution” in air quotes for a reason…)

  18. Ah, yes, the Charger vs. the Chargee. Another thing the Charger won’t do to you: burn your house down while it’s parked in the garage, due to an enormous battery becoming a firebomb when any of its thousand connections gets iffy and starts a thermal runaway. And another: the Chargee is tearing up the roads at a greater rate, due to its bloated weight. (Again, thanks, O Monster Battery.)

  19. Another problem is that they do not at present sell an “electron” can in case you run out of electrons whilst driving in rural Montana. Luckily they do sell gas cans; so ICE owners will not be inconvenienced.

  20. Not only do I believe that auto manufacturers already know this shit is stupid and work but they just maintain the fantasy hoping that people aren’t going to wait it out. There’s an article in ZeroHedge talking about Europeans (of all people) not going with the EV bullshit and so VW going back to — GASP — petrol and diesel.

    They keep up the pretend game, knowing it’s gonna end (or drastically change at least), because they don’t want people waiting it out. Just like the vax. Make it seem like there’s no alternative and it’s never gonna end. So might as well fold your hand now because you’ve been bluffed!

    Just wait. Wait for as long as you can and these fuckers are going to bend.

    • Listen carefully and you will hear them always whispering in your ear that the realization of their plans is INEVITABLE.

      When you hear one of them saying something positive about ICE vehicles, it’s always preempted with a statement such as “While we know that EVs are the future of transportation…”

      It’s all a psy war.

LEAVE A REPLY

Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here