They Know

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2275

Here’s a creepy story for you that all the coverage of it it isn’t covering.

A guy name Christian Matzoros bought a new Hyundai Elantra N – which is the high performance version of the Elantra – back in 2022. The engine failed catastrophically this summer with around 28,600 miles on the car – well within the nimbus of the factory powertrain warranty. Matzoros also had purchased an extended warranty in addition to the factory warranty, according to news coverage.

But Hyundai reportedly refused to replace the engine in Matzoros’ Elantra N because he had been “over-revving” the engine, which they argue constituted abuse – thereby voiding the warranty.

It’s possible Matzoros did “over-rev” the engine in his Elantra N – but only because it was equipped with the standard manual transmission. Because this is the only way to “over-rev” a modern car’s engine, as all modern car engines have electronic rev limiters that are there to prevent “over-revving” – i.e., revving the engine beyond the red line indicated on the tachometer. You can, as the Toothless Man said in Deliverance, try it and see. If the car has an automatic, put it in Park or Neutral and floor the accelerator pedal. The tach needle will not spin past the redline, because the computer that controls the engine will cut off fuel to the engine to prevent it from over-revving.

It’ll just “bounce” off the rev limiter.

The same will happen in a manual-equipped car, if the transmission is in neutral or the clutch is depressed, which will mechanically disconnect the engine from the transmission.

This ought not to hurt the engine as it is not exceeding its maximum normal operating RPM. If this were not true, then the redline on the tach would be lower – and the rev limiter would cut engine RPM sooner. When new engines are being durability tested, it is common for them to be run at wide-open throttle, at or near redline and for extended periods of time, to establish that they will not fail if operated at that speed.

It’s the point of having a redline.

If, on the other hand, the car has a manual transmission, it is possible to mechanically over-rev the engine (and override the rev limiter) by downshifting to a lower gear at too-high a road speed. Since the engine (when the clutch is out) is turned by the transmission as much as the engine turns the transmission, it is possible to over-speed (that is, over-rev) the engine this way and exceed its redline, resulting in a catastrophic engine failure.

That appears to have been what happened to Matzoros’ engine – and if so, he did abuse the engine – and that ought not to be Hyundai’s problem.

But that is not really what this story is about.

Here is what it’s really all about:

Hyundai Canada has conducted a thorough investigation into the matter involving Mr. Matzoros’ Elantra N. After reviewing the vehicle’s engine data, which was retrieved through the Engine Control Unit (ECU) – a system that monitors and records engine performance for diagnostic purposes – it was determined the engine experienced conditions exceeding its designed operational limits, resulting in significant mechanical failure. These findings point to excessive engine revving, which falls outside the coverage of the vehicle’s warranty due to improper use.”

Italics added.

Matzoros’ Hyundai is not really his Hyundai, you see. Even though he is the putative “owner” of the car. Hyundai owns the car. At least, it owns the data stream emanating from the car, which amounts to the same. They know what you are doing with what you think is your car.

Would you feel you were in your own home if your home were transmitting data about you and your doings within it to the contractor who built it? Or maybe the government?

It appears Matzoros may indeed have over-revved the engine and if so, Hyundai is right in both a legal and a moral sense that it is not responsible for replacing the engine. But that is not the point, which is missed in the coverage of this contretemps.

The point is that not only is your car (because it is not just Matzoros’ car or just Hyundai’s cars but all new and newish cars) watching you it is also recording you. The computer keeps track of your speed, braking data and all sorts of other data, such as where you’ve been driving and when.

It knows if you have “modified” anything, too.

The word is bracketed within air-fingers quote marks to take note of the disparaging connotation the word has acquired. As if changing something to the way you prefer it were a bad thing.

Which of course it is – as far as the corporatocracy is concerned. This entity consists of big corporations enmeshed with big government, the two having become adjuncts of one another. The government does not want people to “modify” their vehicles – particularly with regard to what are styled “cheat” devices, such as those that improve performance and increase fuel efficiency at the cost of a meaningless (in terms of air pollution) increase in “emissions.”

But it is not meaningless to the government, which regards this as an affront to its Authority (of a piece with the recent contretemps in North Carolina, where government Authority was affronted by the private helicopter pilot attempting to help people the government wasn’t helping). Nor to the corporations, who’ve become the adjunct enforcers of the government’s Authority.

Take your “modified” car to a dealer and see – per the Toothless Man.

They will plug it in to their computer and download your data, purely for “diagnostic purposes,” you understand. But if the “diagnosis” discovers anything outside the parameters of what they say is permissible, well, it’s no soup for you.

Even better – which is to say, even worse – it is not necessary to plug one of these new/newish Narcmobiles into a dealer’s mainframe for it to Narc you out to the company that built the car or the government – or both. As well as the insurance mafia. Because all new/newish cars are just like your smartphone, in that they receive and transmit “data” whether you like it or not. They “update” and “upload” – and you can’t do a damned thing about it.

Except not buy one.

And that is the only way, at this point, to put an end to this cloying creepiness.

. . .

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75 COMMENTS

  1. The engine computer saving its RPM at the point of failure isn’t a huge deal IMO. First, it has to have that data to function anyway. Second, the manufacturer should be able to protect itself against being taken advantage of with invalid warranty claims. Third, over revving can be proven through the mechanical damage itself. Fourth saving this data is helpful in figuring out what’s wrong with an engine.

    It’s all the other data that isn’t necessary to save that I am concerned about. Recording RPM, spark advance, fuel trim, etc doesn’t bother me.

  2. New cars really do suck. You have a tough job finding the positive aspects about them. If one digs far enough, into a pie of poo, one can usually find a pony, I salute you for your ability to still make a living finding the pony. Most people still refuse to acknowledge how deep this totalitarian rabbit trail goes.

    A few weeks ago, we lost ‘connectivity’ at our house in town. Six hours into the three day outage, I noticed my tenitus completely went away. In all, we have 7 devices in our house that constantly gather data about us. A modem, Roku, two laptops, a desktop, wifes smart phone, and earbuds, Our Tee Vees are from 02-04 so not counting them. I’m realizing my house is nothing more than a microwave, with doors and windows best left open. Whenever she and I want to have a private conversation we go out in the garden. Now I get why the Russians were such heavy drinkers.

    • “ New cars really do suck”

      Yes they really do. The basics we took for granted 30 years ago are now compromised.
      Seat comfort, gone. Ergonomics, gone. Driving safety, gone – huge pillars, huge headrests, high belt line = dangerous lack of visibility. Touchscreen for basic functions now shifts your focus from the road. Electric assist steering has replaced hydraulic and is totally lame in comparison. Great for mfg. streamlining, install the steering rack and plug in the connector, done. No more pump, plumbing, fluid install to clutter up the assembly line.

      Someone in here just bought a 2021 Grand Cherokee, good luck. My 2018 with the electric assist steering doesn’t drive for s**t. Very poor on center straight line tracking and you herd it down the road in the wind. It goes in on the 18th for another alignment to see if that will help, found a shop that does it in house instead of farming it out to the franchise “in a hurry” tire store like everyone else.

  3. I loved driving our old (’39 Chevy, IIRC) cattle truck, 4-speed, hi-lo axle. You can’t fake it. It would be absolutely impossible to downshift like that, because you had to double-clutch to get the revs to match.

    Get rid of synchromesh. Let people get a real driving experience.

  4. Harley got in a jam with EPA a couple years ago. Now, you change tunes in the ECU using a non approved (not Harley) tuner it’s instant warranty void if you bring it in for warranty service. “Well, I’ll just tune it back stock first!” Nope, the unit keeps a record of the renegade tune forever and rats you out once hooked up to the Harley mothership. I’m sure the car companies have the same protocols.

  5. Yea…they know alright. They (the deep state and Biden/Harris) got to the mob boss head of the longshoreman’s union and let him know that he better tow the line, at least until the election is over. The mob boss was working under the assumption that this was a free country, and he can operate is extortion racket with no consequences. He didn’t realize that America is no longer a free country but a banana republic, and the mob boss has new bosses to report to, or else.

  6. :Would you feel you were in your own home if your home were transmitting data about you and your doings within it to the contractor who built it? Or maybe the government?”

    If you have any Google, Alexa, or Facebook product and that extends to Microsoft, that is exactly what is happening.

    The Googlag is everywhere.
    I bought a new Sony Walkman and found out it was a “Google enabled” device. It went right back. My mom got a new AC unit that came with a Nest thermostat. She only has DSL abd the cursed thing eats up so much bandwidth reporting to Google that she couldn’t even get her email.
    I replaced it and the nest is going to the range with me tomorrow.

  7. “ Would you feel you were in your own home if your home were transmitting data about you and your doings within it to the contractor who built it? Or maybe the government?” – Eric
    You can be sure that Siri, Alexa, and all your “smart” devices are doing exactly that. I keep getting offers from the local utilities for ‘free’ smart thermostats, the catch being it’s only free if I hook it up to my WiFi, and then it will be under their control. No thanks, I have regular clock thermostats that work perfectly fine. People are intentionally bugging their own houses because they think it’s cool to say “hey Siri, turn on the tv to channel five” rather than push a button on the remote. That’s why I drink.

    • Whenever I see a Pontiac Firebird.. especially the interior, the warmest feeling of home comes over me.

      I’ve owned and drove a 1979 Firebird 6cyl, 1979 Trans Am 400ci and a 10th Anniversary 403ci from the ages 0f 18-32yo.

      Although I claim my 1970 AMX 390ci as my most favorite car ever..

      Nothing beats Memories of cruising in my Pontiacs with a pretty girl next to me.

      Can I go back now please.. 🙂

  8. Eric, the car doesn’t need to be transmitting anything to Hyundai to snitch on the driver.

    I’ve been hacking on modern ECU’s for years, on my own cars mostly, and this was going back to the 1990’s, anything that has electronic fuel injection. These ECU are generally manufactured by just one of a handful of companies, and they keep statistics on engine usage. For example, my Lotus, built in 2005, which is considered an analog car with no fancy systems, divides the RPM range into 10 buckets, and it keeps track of how many hours the engine has spent running in each bucket, for example, “50 hours at RPM between 5000 and 6000”. It also keeps track of the three highest RPM’s it’s ever seen, and my 11,000 RPM missed-shift is in there for all time. Luckily, no harm done. My Infiniti had these statistics, my wife’s BRZ keeps these statistics, a friends VW kept these stats. While I’ve found ways to read them out, I never found a way to change them since modern cryptography is hard to defeat.

    I’m 100% with you, that cars are rolling spy devices these days, but basic engine usage statistics have been with us forever, specifically to catch warranty voiding behavior.

    • Yep. And before that there were human beings to determine what voided the warranty. Of course the computer data is much more difficult to argue with.

  9. 55 years ago I drove Studebaker Lark during my first year in college. I was revving the engine one day at the family home driveway, sheered the timing pin, the car’s engine quit.

    It was the rev limiter, sheering the timing pin, I guess.

    That angry cat was cussing up a hellish storm at Paul Krugman. One thing about it, the protester wasn’t smiling.

    “What has Israel ever done for the United States?” asked John Mearsheimer.

    The answer John spoke: Nothing.

    • “That angry cat was cussing up a hellish storm at Paul Krugman.”

      I saw that video. Nice sentiment, but Krugman just shrugged it off and continued unabated. Yelling obscenities at you enemy is pathetic, and very “leftish” behavior.

      You want to make a statement? Make a statement. With action, not by screeching empty, impotent words.

      • You could let the air out of the tires of Krugman’s car.

        Krugman’s insouciance makes him an ignorant imbecile, he shined it all on.

        I guess the NAP applies here, you can’t storm the stage and throw a haymaker at him.

        You will probably be arrested for assault if you don’t miss.

        The left did a lot more than just yelling and screaming at everybody.

        Take action, go to North Carolina, they need help badly.

        • “Take action, go to North Carolina, they need help badly.”

          From what I’m hearing, you’re just as likely to get arrested doing that. Government doesn’t like competition. The wanton display of free market efficiency and competence makes the government DEI hires look a bit foolish.

    • Drump Baby…Eureka!!

      I knew I recognized your “Philosophical bent”…as a Deja vu moment!

      You’re the guy that does the labels for one of my MUST HAVE travel items..

      Dr Bronner’s 18-in-1 peppermint Pure-Castle Soap…..

      “I Put that shit on everything”! (However if brushing teeth…smells like toothpaste, tastes like soap..yuck)….That stuff is insane, to wit:

      -Do the dishes
      -Do the laundry
      -And leave your body tingly from scalp to asshole as a body wash!

      Thank you Sir for solving a mystery which has puzzled me for over 50 years.

      Onward through the fog

  10. I overrevved a yamaha fzr600 once, bad. Had just switched the shifting pattern from 1 down 5 up to reverse or 1 up 5 down, which was a racers trick to be able to upshift leaned over. You didn’t have to have your foot under the lever, which you couldn’t do at extreme lean, just push it down.
    Anyway, was winning a race with some pressure from behind. Had a brain fart at redline, full power, and downshifted!!! You could see the puff of smoke come out to the pipe (video). I got passed at that moment, but regrouped and won it. lucky I didn’t get smashed from behind. No engine damage.

  11. The question I have is did the kid know that over-revving the engine would kill it? Dropping from 5th to 1st didn’t kill his engine in GTA-5, so why would that happen IRL? It didn’t in Fast and Furious XIV either, so why would it blow up on his hot new Hyundai?

    I know your point was more about the black box recorder than the incident itself. I work in an industry that lives for logging and keeping track of everything, so I guess I’m not too upset to know the machines are recording me. In this case though, I can’t fault Hyundai for checking the black box. Without knowing the boy, I can’t necessarily blame him either. No one taught him how to drive, or ingrained in him a sense of mechanical things. Likely because his assigned parent didn’t have that sense either.

    Boys will be boys. Boys, without men, will be psychopaths and fools.

    Back in 2019 I had an “uncontrolled landing” with my DJI Inspire 1 Pro. It lost link to the controller and initiated a return to home, as programmed, at an altitude too low to avoid the big rock it flew into on the way back to the launch point. Completely the fault of the pilot who should have verified RTH altitude as part of the preflight checklist. I managed to recover most of the airframe, which was sent off to DJI for repair. They checked the logs, flat out said it was not eligible for warranty work (I didn’t try to claim it was, just part of the boilerplate in the quote) and sent me a very expensive quote for repair. I took my lumps and cut a check. Lesson learned.

    We can argue all day about customer service and warranty claims, and the merits of data loggers. But the fact is, people will make false claims every bit as often as companies will deny them. This is the world we live in. 200 years ago you could have someone vouch for you. If you carried a letter from someone well known in town, that was good as gold (as was your out of town bank’s money, since someone else trusted you). This was how commerce and travel were done back in the time before government issued credentials. If no one would vouch for you, you’d get the askance look from the shopkeeper or maybe even be denied service without hard currency. Reputations mattered.

    But that was all replaced in the age of mass production and marketing. Now that natural human tendency to trust each other and not the outsider was manipulated for profit. Of course you can trust Oscar Meyer, they have that cute jingle we all know. And their products are packaged in clean modern plastic, not like that local butcher whose store looks old and tired and wraps up your order in paper! Why, you don’t even have to interact with Oscar, just grab what you want and move on! No awkward conversation when you’re not in the mood or anything.

    And that leads to no one being trusted, because why should you try to keep your reputation intact if you aren’t interacting with anyone? It is completely normal to go about your day without ever speaking to anyone, conducting business as “self service” and automatic payment using cards (a form of that old voucher system) and living quite well. So when the big corporation does something stupid, like neglect to clean their production line for months, the Mighty Regulator! comes in to save the day for all of us. Except that the regulator is easily bought by the corporate interests, who sit on expert panels defining the regulations, so what are they really doing anyway?

    Trust no one.

    Cover your ass.

  12. Read something similar where bmw denied a claim over money shifting ages ago, Ill post it in a reply later, coffee hasnt kicked in yet

    As far as modded vehicles, right car’s dealerships are lenient with mods, brought my tuned Mustang and Bronco to them and they didnt really bat an eye, but ymmv, always ask the hypothetical “How would you feel if I modded it”. That, or diy for most jobs

    • Hi Jim,

      What is happening in Appalachia right now makes my blood boil. The complete disregard for Americans from Florida to Virginia by the federal government isn’t surprising. What increases my blood pressure is that government is stopping non government assistance. Private helicopters, boats, and other modes of transportation are being forced to stop rescuing their peers. They are being threatened with jails and fines if they do not cease operations. All hands should be on deck. Who cares where the aide comes from?!?!

      The government refuses to assist, but refuses to allow anyone else to assist. My homeschoolers may not be the quickest when it comes to Algebra and how to determine what “x” is, but it has been ingrained in them, repeatedly, do not expect anyone to save you when the SHTF. Prepare accordingly.

      • I have friends in Asheville – the magnitude of the destruction and the government’s inability to help isn’t being adequately reported.

        The more stories like the this (government inhibiting rescue efforts) that get out the better.

        The government has never been here to help you.

        The sooner the masses come to realize this the sooner we can get back to a civil society.

        • Good morning all. Pull up the American Thinker website and read “Why Western North Carolina proves why we don’t need a government handout” by Pete Colan. FEMA wants the monopoly on “charity” and it has a preferred list a vendors who are allowed to assist. It all boils down to big government contacts and no outside competition is allowed. No matter the harm it is causing the devastated people. And I will also tie in the Red Cross as a bunch of heartless crooks since they have in the past confiscated private relief supplies and prevented or delayed them from being distributed. Not to mention they are are tied at the hip with the feds.

        • Hi BID,

          Are your friends in Asheville seeing any local assistance…churches, Cajun Navy, etc.? I would like to donate, but I sure as hell not giving it to any large, woke conglomerate. If there are small businesses helping out I would like to give to them knowing the people who need it will actually receive it.

      • [What increases my blood pressure is that government is stopping non government assistance. ]RG

        Been doing it ever since Katrina. Probably even before. They actually attempted gun confiscation. You have no constitution, no amendments, no rights when ‘they’ declare an emergency even thought the word “emergency” is not to be found in the constitution.
        The only thing that saved them was a sheriff with gonads.

        All the wimpy sheriff had to do was tell the federal parasite he wasn’t arresting anyone and if they’re (the feds) not helping,,, kick the bastards out of the area. The ‘elected’ sheriff has the power. Too many movies like US Marshal where the corpgov parasites take over for a poor fumbling, stuttering local sheriff.

        In this case, FEMA was broke because all its funds were ‘given’ to illegals, Ukraine and Israhell. They got away with handing $700 to Maui victims so they’ll probably do it again.
        If we don’t stop begging for corpgov help we’ll never be free of them.

      • Here is one story of many as government officials are willing to sacrifice American lives. The fire official will get a smack on the hand. I wonder how many Americans died for his need to “control”?

        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/volunteer-pilot-forced-to-abandon-stranded-hurricane-victims-after-being-threatened-with-arrest-for-helping-without-permission/ar-AA1rBDDu

        Have Americans still not learned the lesson? When you comply with government, you die.

        • People need to learn to say “you know what? I double dog dare you to find a prosecutor who will take that case.”

          It would help if jurors were just a teensy bit more independent-minded, though.

          The rot runs deep indeed.

        • The local yokel has no authority over the airspace. That is solely the domain of the FAA.

          However if the FAA did issue a temporary flight restriction (TFR) then the local FSDO would have been notified (unless he switched off his transponder, which isn’t exactly legal in controlled airspace and a really bad idea), and they likely would have pulled his license on the spot.

          There’s a lot more to this story than we’re being told.

          • The FAA are BASTARDS when it comes to punishing pilots! When I was working on my commercial/instrument, I regularly read stories where a pilot just barely violated the edge of Class B airspace (airspace around the country’s busiest airports), and he’d be punished for it. The controllers would slap a data ID tag on the guy, track him to landing, then the FAA take his license at his destination. The only question being asked was how long the pilot would lose his license, not if he’d lose it.

            Now mind you, he may not have caused any harm; he may not have been near any other aircraft when he breached the Class B aisrpace. All he did was accidentally penetrate the edge of Class B airspace without permission. Even so, the FAA would track him to landing, and be waiting for him. Oh no, the FAA is very heavy handed.

            • Pretty bad when the sectional’s line is wide and your inertial nav system might not be exactly calibrated. Just where, exactly does that Class B layer begin anyway? Is my altimeter exactly calibrated?

              ATC personnel seem like they want to go on power trips from time to time. I hear the recordings all the time when I get in the mood to watch the YouTubes. I wonder if that sort of behavior is encouraged or rewarded by ATC managers?

              Pushing Tin was a work of fiction, IIRC.

      • Long ago, I had a local po-leece officer threaten to arrest me for putting out a small fire on my neighbor’s property. FD showed up, and complimented me for my prompt action, because they know, as do I and anyone who has relevant safety training, that seconds count when fighting fires.

        • Cops aren’t our friends, period. Did you ask the Pig what crime you were committing by being a good neighbor?

          As far as the govt, they work for us, they’re our servants, should be on their hands and knees instead of treating us like peons and peasants. The delayed response and pennies are on purpose, they hate us and want to replace the native population with their army. If they actually cared, they wouldn’t be threatening arrest and confiscating donations and supplies to help out.

          It’s gonna get to this point eventually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJF1pMKicTY&pp=ygUddiBmb3IgdmVuZGV0dGEgY29wIGtpbGxzIGdpcmw%3D

      • ‘The government refuses to assist, but refuses to allow anyone else to assist.’ — Raider Girl

        Further to what you said, and what Allen said about FEMA’s preferred vendor list, this post connects the dots to explain that preferred vendors are giving kickbacks to FEMA grifters. So they vigilantly prohibit outside aid, as Americans die.

        ‘So [rather than] accepting outside donations, even though they are on location and can help people NOW, they would rather let people suffer so they can get their kickbacks.’

        https://x.com/ryantyre/status/1841583311782568064

        Hard to see how government depravity at this extreme pitch can be fixed. This is on a par with Stalin starving out the kulaks. The communist DC entity has turned feral. No approved vendor for your destroyed town? Sorry, you and your family can crawl in a hole and die … compliant.

        • JayJay October 4, 2024 2:36 pm

          Breaking: Reports that a FEMA director who was acting arrogant and denying aid to #NorthCarolina flood victims was BEATEN by local residents

          The incident occurred 20 miles south of #Asheville

          ————

          Beaten, HELL. Lynch him!

          • God bless, country folks. ❤️

            How does the saying go? There are only nine meals between a revolution. I would say they were more than lenient. It has been a week.

          • Hundreds of victims didn’t make it. 135 were up in trees.

            FEMA abandoned the site, the stench of dead bodies was too much to bear. What I have read.

            Get a safety harness, strap it on to a FEMA schmuck, hoist him/her up a lamp post with a long rope and let him hang there until he/she starts to scream then eventually goes silent.

            Have to be gender neutral, you know.

            Helene has precipitated a war of all against all. One of those hard rains, as it were.

            Mother Nature doesn’t care.

        • Hi Jim,

          Here is another turn of the screw for those who have already lost everything in Appalachia…

          https://stocks.apple.com/ApVFArrVERwyD7sbnOlh4qw

          They are anticipating rebuilding costs to be between $200 billion to $250 billion. Insurance will payout around $7 billion. Why? They were flooded and most homeowner policies do not cover flood damage.

          Insurance is great and all when the actuaries and risk companies are willing to cover it, but there is no guarantee that they will. How do you prepare for everything? You can’t.

          Why do I get the sneaking suspicion BlackRock and the like will be buying NC and TN mountain land for pennies on the dollar.

        • Hi Eric – What I find shocking is how people still vote these bastards in!! Any other time in history and this bastards head would have ended up on a pike….

          • Indeed, Nasir –

            I think about this a lot and think it has something to do with diffusion. Or atomization. Modernity has made it difficult for people to coalesce into effective opposition blocs. Individually, there are millions of angry people but what are each of them to do? No one wants to be first out of the trenches- especially when there’s no one coming out behind you.

            • In addition, any time an opposition group is formed, they infiltrate and subvert. Guaranteed in any given group, there is at least one member on the payroll. This is why they have trouble stopping the lone wolf. A man with nothing left to lose, who has not communicated his plans to anyone is their worst fear I think.

      • Hi Nasir,

        Ugh! Am I the only one disgusted when the argument of “We need to be there, so they don’t come here” is used? Graham is a war monger. Maybe if we rename North Carolina “Ukraine” and Tennessee “Israel” the funds will make their way to people who truly need them.

  13. I think there probably is something that could be done about cars transmitting data over the air. Like finding the device, or its antenna, and clipping a lead here or there. Or maybe a noise jamming device along side it. It might not be easy to figure out because, come to find out, automotive digital devices have insane amounts of built-in security. Not against someone hacking your car, but rather against you doing anything about it.

    They have things like built-in encryption for the stored program code, data logs that are digitally signed, and tamper-proof interfaces that prevent reverse engineering.

    But the fucken things are electric and transmit a signal. It is possible to get on the CAN bus or whatever bus they have and figure something out. It’s just really not easy and could potentially brick a car. That’s why clipping an antenna lead or surrounding it with something that would block the signal is a better choice.

    I have some developer kits that can talk on the CAN bus. But it’s a huge learning curve. What we all need is not for some individual like me personally to figure this out, but rather for a wave of hackers, to chip away at the problem, bit by bit, until that nut is cracked.

    It’s possible. It’s just really hard.

    • You’d have to do something like epoxy the OBD II port. In this case I’m sure the owner took it to the dealer to make his warranty claim, as written into the contract. They connected the car to the diagnostic computer which uploaded the logs to Hyundai for evaluation.

      Audi used to do the same thing. If you made any changes to any setting in the ECM you voided the warranty. Right out. Even if you swapped out the stock radio head for the upgraded navigation system, which requires a code to be changed in the ECM to enable it, you voided the warranty.

      • I’m talking about preventing over the air transmission. Obviously, epoxy the OBDII port would not stop that. And I’m more talking about a general case of data collection not this guy.

        • Stop paying for the app services. They aren’t willing to pay for your data, just wait until you get to the dealer for service.

          My Jeep Cherokee used the old Sprint 3G data network. When T-Mobile dropped that service it went dead. And it wasn’t like FCA sent out a recall to upgrade the modem to 5G, they just let it die.

          Glad I wasn’t using it.

    • Hi XM,

      Do you know what would get the quickest results? If the cars of the people creating these regulations were hacked. Let them get behind the wheel of the car that they can’t control. I bet a reversal of certain automobile requirements would happen real quick.

  14. Except not buy one.‘ — eric

    Before the vehicle telematics era, this statement would have been extreme heresy, resulting in confiscation of your typewriter. No car buff ever expressed such a sentiment in the Before Times. One argued the merits of GM vs Ford vs Mopar, or foreign exotics — but always in the context of which one constituted one’s object of desire.

    But that’s all over. Gov-gimped, chip-encrusted, adipose spymobiles that imperiously hector their henpecked owners [‘eyes straight ahead, slacker!‘] now induce disgust and contempt. Choosing a new vehicle now resembles our hideous elections: which cynical, lying, child-molesting grifter will be the least destructive?

    But as Eric points out, there’s another option: refuse to play. Compared to Cuba, where old beaters from six decades ago are still kept running, America has a large reservoir of pre-telematics, pre-Clownscreen, hydrocarbon-fueled vehicles. Most of these can be kept running indefinitely.

    Half of vehicle manufacturers are likely to disappear in the next five years. Our job is to ease their passage to the corporate afterlife with a knife to the back. They abandoned us. Now we kick them to the curb and steal their wallets.

    This time if you want me to come back, it’s up to you
    But remember I won’t allow the things you used to do
    You’re gonna have to toe the mark and walk the line
    This time will be the last time

    — Waylon Jennings, This Time

  15. I have a neighbor with a late model Mustang. He will sit in the car & rev it (here’s a nutty thought, why don’t you drive it?) for no good reason. I told another neighbor were it not for the gd rev limiter, we’d all have a hearty chuckle at his expense. Can’t fix stupid.

  16. BTW, @Eric, I’ve seen stories about Ford severely nitpicking battery claims from Mach-E and Lighnting owners, much as you predicted a while back.

  17. I get the point Eric, but he revved a *Hyundai*.

    My wife had a co-worker file for Bankruptcy for $30k in credit card debt on about that much annual income, but, less than a year later, the Hyundai dealer outside Tampa found someone to buy the paper so the pinhead could drive a new Tucson off the lot.

    I didn’t ask about interest rate or length of loan, but my guess is that it would have made my Ford Credit lifer father spin in his grave.

  18. This article touches quite a few issues. Totally agree on the underlying theme. Don’t want your data monitored? Then don’t buy a new car.

    The problem with this Hyundai example is that what the owner trying to do (if story is true) is to immoral and fraudulent. This sort of immoral behavior has become rampant in society.

    If the Hyundai owner has over-rev’d the engine with even a single botched downshift, then the engine damage is on him and he should man up and own the results.

    The problem of course is that he would now like Hyundai to pay for his mistake & abuse.

    In days gone by, this would have been much tougher for Hyundai to reject the warranty claim but as you say, data recording in both the engine ECU as well as by the vehicle electronic data recorder (EDR) is now common. Both for the very same reason – to protect the OEMs from those customers that lie to benefit themselves at the expense of the OEM.

    Just think how the Audi unintended acceleration debacle of the 80s would have turned out had Audi had EDR’s to prove that drivers were pressing the gas pedal instead of the brake they claimed they were pressing.

    Unfortunately people had a high tendency to lie to benefit themselves at the cost of others.

    How many of us know someone that has purchased an item, used it for their intended purpose, then returned it for a refund? I regularly see hobbyist car guys on pubic forums bragging about having gone to Harbor Freight to purchase some needed specialty tool, using it successfully to do their repair, then returning the tool for a 100% refund. It’s appalling behavior and yet others congratulate them on the deceit.

    Recently I’ve been seeing an increasing trend in the form of buying a new auto part from AutoZone (or any parts chain) only to find a used, non-functional, returned part in the box that someone fraudulently returned for a refund and the dope at the parts counter simply put back on the shelf without even looking in the box. This has happened to me, and it just recently happened again with a friend.

    This is fraudulent behavior, and it is theft. It ends up costing all of us in the end via higher prices.

    Recently

    • Hi Burn it Down. That used part in a new box happened to me with Rock Auto. They told me to keep it and shipped me another one. When it was time to do the brakes I tried using the “used” part and it turned out that the brake shoes and their riveted lever were for only one side and no way could they work on the other side. Needless to say I used the “new” part.

      The lesson here is if you are stockpiling parts is to verify fit and finish as the warranty may well be over by the time you use them.

    • I bought a good oil filter from Autozone and when I got home and opened the box, it was a cheap filter of another brand. Someone had swapped them and paid the lower price for MY filter. For what, a couple of bucks? Pathetic. And it was a waste of my time because I had to return the damn thing and explain what happened.

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