It appears that Ram – a brand that sells trucks – is apparently going to sell an SUV beginning in 2028.
Does this make sense?
Ram is – currently – one of the last remaining focused brands in that it only sells a certain type of vehicle; i.e., pick-ups. The same used to be true of brands such as Porsche, which used to sell only two-door sports cars. It now sells SUVs, too – and that has worked out very well for Porsche. Maybe it will for Ram also.
On the other hand, it may not work out well for Jeep and Dodge, which already sell Stellantis SUVs.
The SUV Ram intends to sell will almost certainly be a variant of (or closely related to) SUVs sold by those other Stellantis brands. In other word, Ram’s SUV will compete for resources and customers with other SUVs sold by other divisions of the same corporate entity (Stellantis). This is a problem Porsche does not have. Though Porsche is a part of the VW combine, VW does not sell slightly different variants of Porsches – and Porsche does not sell upmarket VWs.
Some point out that, back in the day, there was a Ramcharger, which was kind of a Dodge variant of the OJ Simpson Ford Bronco. It was basically a truck with two doors and a camper cover over the bed, from the factory. It was cool. But – in those days – Dodge sold trucks and there was no Ram. The latter became a separate division in 2009. Dodge stopped selling trucks after that.
Stellantis may be creating a Pontiac-Plymouth-Mercury Problem for itself. The reference here being to brands that used to exist but not longer do. Why do they no longer exist? Well, because toward the end of their lives, all of them were selling – trying to sell – slightly different variants of models sold by other divisions of their respective parent companies. Plymouth, for example, sold Dodges – such as the Neon – that were almost exactly the same models. The latter even used the same name. There was a Dodge and a Plymouth Neon.
Why bother with both when one will do?
Pontiac is another example. A sadder one, because at one time – before the early 1980s – Pontiac (like all of GM’s divisions at the time) was actually a car company more so than a brand. What I mean is that Pontiac, though a division of General Motors, had its own engineering department that designed unique-to-Pontiac engines and that made a Pontiac a different thing than a Chevy, even if both did share some common underpinnings. This changed – fatally – beginning in the early 1980s, when GM – for compliance reasons – was effectively forced to shutter Pontiac’s engineering department and began the process of transforming Pontiac into a badge-engineered brand. Pontiac became a marketing division of GM that re-sold basically-the-same versions of vehicles that were also sold by other GM divisions.
After the 1981 model year, for example, the Pontiac Firebird Trans-Am was mechanically identical to the Chevy Camaro Z28. Previously, it had be related – but still different in objectively meaningful ways, such as under the hood. Pre-1982 Trans-Ams did not have Chevy V8s under their hoods; those made beginning with the ’82 model year did. It is true there were some styling differences to establish visual separation but in the end, the “Pontiac’ was a Chevy and that undermined the reason-for-being of Pontiac, which gradually fell into a kind of ennui and then nonexistence (2002 was the final year).
The same happened also and for the same basic reason to GM’s Oldsmobile division, which – at one time – was also more than just a marketing division of GM.
Is Stellantis about to make that same mistake?
A Ram-badged SUV will entail duplication of effort – since the Ram SUV will almost certainly use the same engines/drivetrains as are used in Jeep and Dodge SUVs, for reasons of compliance. Meaning, because it is much-too-expensive for Ram to design and “certify” its own in-house engines for use exclusively in Ram-badged SUVs. This is exactly why GM ended Pontiac’s in-house engineering of its own, brand-specific V8 engines; it was just too expensive to “certify” both Pontiac and Chevy (as well as Oldsmobile) V8 engines. Using just one (Chevy-engineered) in Pontiac and other-brand vehicles was a way to reduce compliance costs.
Another way to reduce costs – for GM – was to stop putting money into advertising and marketing badge-engineered “Pontiacs” and “Oldsmobiles,” as this drew resources away from Chevrolet marketing and advertising. That’s exactly what GM did do, by ending Pontiac and Oldsmobile.
Is Stellantis headed down that same dead-end street?
GM does manage to sell multiple badge-engineered version of basically the same SUV. The Chevy Tahoe serves as the basis for the GMC Yukon and the Cadillac Escalade – and they’re all doing pretty well. Maybe the new Ram iteration of Dodge/Jeep SUVs will as well, especially if it’s something like the old OJ Bronco-like Ramcharger was, because that would be unlike any current SUV Dodge sells. Or, for that matter, anyone else is selling.
I guess we’re going to see in about two years from now.
. . .
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A cargo van based on the full-sized minivan was sold under the Ram name in 2012–2015. The local post office uses one. Ram has a series of other vans even now, not just pickups.
The only reason Dodge still has the Durango is continuing sales, and that SUV has been in production with its current body since 2011. It’s long in the tooth now, just as the 2008–body Challenger and 2011–body Charger were kept in production too long before their demise at the end of 2023.
The obvious plan otherwise was to move all the trucks and SUVs to the Ram and Jeep names and keep Dodge as the performance-car line. Even the Dakota pickup was sold as a Ram, not a Dodge, during its last two model years in 2010–2011.
A Ram SUV is not going to cause the end of the world for any of the other Stellantis nameplates. Chrysler will go before Ram will, but that will have nothing to do with Ram. Whether Stellantis will be around for the long haul—well, that’s a different debate.
Stellantis needs to hire some proper electrical engineers before making Hybrids/PHEVs. Their electricals are already a nightmare without Hybrids/PHEVs.
https://www.theautopian.com/jeep-just-recalled-a-recall-of-another-recall-because-its-plug-in-hybrids-keep-catching-fire/
Who buys this?
If this is so, I don’t think Dodge is long for this world.
Chrysler with only the minivan is basically extinct already.
I’ve always thought the Dodge-to-Ram rebrand was stupid. Has it really been over 15 years now?
I had a 2001 Dodge truck with a ram logo on the hood. To my mind, “Ram” doesn’t even exist — it’ll always be a “Dodge” truck to me.
It’s just as stupid as the idiots who decided to officially rename Dunkin’ Donuts to simply “Dunkin'”. The idiocy of it grates on me. Sounds like the work of a bunch of Millennial twats with marketing degrees who have too much time on their hands and not enough sense in their heads, like the Bud Light fiasco.
“Time to make the donuts.”
Or, rather, pull them from the freezer and nuke them. So the name change is maybe just being honest?
Preach it, X!
Every time I hear “ster” (as in Napster or Blindster) I want to smash something. Does everything have to be reduced to the level (and language) of an idiot 14-year-old?
I bet this thing will fail in the market. Because one thing for sure it will be expensive. How many more expensive large SUVs can this market absorb if we know the consumer is largely tapped out?
This segment is already filled with the GM, Ford and Toyota offerings. The Durango is not very popular, despite being at least visually the most appealing design of them all, and not grotesquely large in dimensions. So making a more aggressive looking (Ram-like), larger, more expensive behemoth is the answer?
I agree, AG –
Because I think that by 2027 (which would be when the ’28s begin to roll out) the last thing that will sell is another $60,000-plus SUV. I believe the smart move would be to bring forth a $15k vehicle – because that is what most people will be wanting (because it will be all that most people can afford) by 2028.
Hope it isn’t another Durango clone. The Jeep Grand Wagoneer is a Durango with Jeep sheet metal and badges, and a 100k price tag – what a scam. Three row in a Durango ain’t nothing to crow about awkward at best. I was on to them when I saw the Durango floor hump near the second row seats, inside the Wagoneer.
it will be
More recently, the Ramcharger existed on the first gen Ram for a few years….but it was only available on the other side of the Rio Grande.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15140437/dodge-has-a-big-suv-but-south-of-the-border-only-mini-test-road-test/
FYI: my 2012 cargo version of the Caravan is badged “RAM C/V,” (Commercial Van).
An aside, from the lunatic DMV: RAM C/V can only be registered with commercial plates.
However, my 2012 RAM 2500 pickup (also only two front seats) has standard passenger plates.
Go figure. I can’t.
Have to wonder what might differentiate it from a Dodge? One reason why GM is able to maintain three badge-engineered SUVs is because the GMC dealer traditionally specializes in fleet sales, you get a little extra niceties from the Cadillac dealer and Chevy is Chevy. RAM seems like they’re targeting the same buyer as Dodge, so what’s going to make it better (or worse)?
*yawn*
The lede photo is a Dodge Durango with a RAM badge on the grille, innit?
Never mind a new SUV — Stellantis is in an existential crisis that it may not survive. The Everything Bubble is about to blow itself to kingdom come. When it does, auto sales will be chopped in half.
This morning, about an eighth of the population is more worried about their SNAP benefits than making car payments. There’s trouble in MAGA paradise, comrades. Guard your pets.
At half past three, papa’s ready to go
He jumps in his pirogue headed down the bayou
He’s got fishing lines strung across the Louisiana rivers
Gotta catch a big fish for us to eat
He’s settin’ traps in the swamp catching anything he can
He’s gotta make a living, he’s a Louisiana man
— Doug Kershaw, Louisiana Man
Hi Jim,
I hope Dodge would have fun with this. Bring back the front end of a 1970 Coronet and put it in a truck chassis (if that is even possible). Forego the plastic grill, plastic parts, and black, silver, and white options. A beautiful burgundy, Forest green, or a nautical blue. Go back to basics. No big IPad looking screens. Analog dials would be awesome. Show the public that driving can once again be enjoyable.
Sorry, Ram not Dodge…I guess there goes my Coronet idea. ☹️
Funny they they have already convinced you that RAM is in fact a different brand.
For decades ram trucks were simply Dodges going back to when they actually had a ram head and as the hood ornament.
‘Bring back the front end of a 1970 Coronet’ — Raider Girl
Cars have faces just like puppies do. The 1970 Coronet’s face is all about pairs — a pair of sealed-beam headlights on each side, a pair of grilles, a pair of hood scoops. Those small hub caps on plain black steel wheels project a ‘we mean business’ cop car flair. And I painted it forest green, just as you asked.
https://media.hagerty.com/media/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/1970-Dodge-Hemi-Coronet-RT-1.jpg
Nothing stops Ram from recreating this capable, husky yeoman look in a pickup. But I’d like it in a El Camino / Ranchero configuration, long and low (and the complete opposite of today’s two-story tall hulking monsters). Is this too much to ask, Timmy K?
I want it,
I want it,
I want it …
— The Who, Magic Bus
Let’s not forget that this Hail Mary move is happening under the guidance of that POS Lil’ Timmy Kuniskis.
Supposedly brought back to save RAM and this is the best idea he’s got?
Bahaha!!!!!!
“Though Porsche is a part of the VW combine, VW does not sell slightly different variants of Porsches – and Porsche does not sell upmarket VWs.”
You lost me.
There is all kinds of platform and engine sharing that goes on across VW, Audi, and Porsche.
VW Touareg = Porsche Cayenne
Audi Q5 = Macan
Macan uses the VW group EA888 engine in slightly different tune.
VW, Porsche and Audi have shared engineering, parts, and family relationships for eons going as far back as the 356 having been derived from the Beetle.
Beat me to it about VAG and the Touareg.
If it don’t happen in the U.S. it don’t happen?
Then what about all the Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infiniti rebadging? Is that working for them? Maybe it’s not anymore.
Good for Ram. I actually like this idea, because Stellantis knows they are in trouble. At this point I think they are trying to determine which brand to save and Ram is the likeliest candidate. Of course, I am dreaming of an SUV with a 6.4 L Hemi V8. A Ram SUV will be the excuse needed for the Durango to take its last breath. Unfortunately, the Dodge Durango never came close to the popularity of a Ford Explorer or the larger GM models of a Yukon or Suburban.
Hopefully, Ram won’t mess around and actually listen to its clientele. A big SUV, a big engine, and remove the worthless tech. A girl can at least dream. Of course, what we will get is some twin turbo V6, an unappealing design, and mommy tech up the Yoo-hoo.
Morning, RG!
I have the same hope. And I think this vehicle will have or at least be available with a big V8. I’d like to see something more along the lines of the old Ramcharger rather than a Ram Suburban. But I rekonize (Elvis voice) that a three-row ‘ute is more saleable, prolly.
Would making these based on the 3/4 ton truck reduce the compliance requirements? If so, that’s the way they should go.
Hey a guy can dream too! Bring back hydraulic power steering and dust off the 2005 front bucket seat design from the Grand Cherokee – the last all day comfort seats I know of. Then market the he** out of it, push what makes it better, practical, enjoyable to drive, and comfortable for interstate cruising.
Hi Sparkey,
I wonder if the car companies actually considered asking their customers what they would like to see? I have yet to see a YT channel that isn’t disgusted by the amount of tech in today’s automobiles, the never ending recalls, and lackluster designs.
I wouldn’t mind seeing the car companies produce a few prototypes and see how the public responds before manufacturing millions of a model we have zero interest in.
There is something about, “Hey, this is what you get. We don’t care if you like it or not” that really doesn’t appeal to most of us.
Correct! From my mfg engineering background, it was interesting/maddening to track the quality decline mid seventies (fit and finish for cars is a obsession with me) into the engine choked out 80s, then finally an upswing starting with the Buick 3800 injected engine late 80s and then car body build where panels were straight and gaps were uniform. Then came better handling and a power train that would go 200k with reasonable maintenance. I should have kept our 05 Grand Cherokee it was a far better driving experience than the POS 2018 that replaced it. I can’t afford car swaps unless something drastic happens then I’d be forced to, or, go without a AWD rig.
And to think, much of the technology to have body panels lined up correctly, better handling, and powertrains that last into the hundreds of thousands of miles with reasonable maintenance existed in the 1970s and 1980s. You just had to buy cars made in Europe and Japan.
PS: regarding the “tech”, my 2018 Grand Cherokee touch screen is on the way out, hasn’t bubbled but it now changes XM radio stations randomly. Fortunately the internet MOPAR Jeep chats have the fix – a $200 aftermarket screen different design than Jeep laminate screen. So, screen it is and lucky it’s not the entire head unit, $1600 or more for the whole unit.
A Ram SUV might work out if it comes in a size not sold by Jeep or Dodge. Of course if it’s a sales success someone will suggest they make other sizes and that’s when the cannibalization of Jeep and Dodge will really get going.
I wish them luck but somehow I think it might wind up like Edsel coming out just as we went into a recession in 1958.
I agree, Landru –
But it looks like it’s going to be a standard-issue, three-row SUV to compete with Tahoe, et al.
Well, hopefully it won’t come with a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder turbo hybrid CVT then.