Rand Paul is Not One of Us

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There’s been a lot of fire directed at Ron Paul for saying, “Chris Kyle’s death seems to confirm that ‘he who lives by the sword dies by the sword.’ Treating PTSD at a firing range doesn’t make sense.”

But it’s the his son Rand’s comments that ought to seal the deal for any of you out there who still believe the son is anything like his father:

Rand Paul stated that Kyle  was a “hero like all Americans who don the uniform to defend our country.”

Italics added.

The guy is a fraud. A neo-con “good Republican” who hopes to build a political career on his father’s legacy… by betraying his father’s legacy. What a worthless creep – and secondhander.

This guy is not on our side.

Throw him in the Woods!

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  1. I was looking back at this thread again… We were discussing Chris Kyle on RPF and I actually went so far as to say he deserved what he got (Although, I was not condoning the person who killed him.) I’d still stand on that. The man was a mass murderer and he was proud of it. Absolutely vile and disgusting. People flipped out at Ron’s comments because Ron was supposedly saying he deserved it… he wasn’t but even if he had I would have been OK with it.

    But… I don’t really expect politicians to say things like that, even the few good ones, and you have to have some understanding of libertarian thought before you can stomach that. I think if the people who you’re talking to don’t even agree with you on interventionist foreign policy, there’s no real point in trying to persuade them that the hired muscle are evil murderers, doubly so if you’re running for President (Since I’m not, I care a little less about “tact” than Rand does.) I still show people the “you like Ron Paul except on foreign policy” video and I like it a lot despite its “pro-soldier” perspective because its extremely anti-war and it provides evidence from people who actually “served” and so would know first hand how much of a racket war is.

    I still can’t defend the “fighting for our freedom” comment any way or any how, no matter who says it, though. Ron didn’t come off as being “anti-soldier” the way some of us do (for what its worth, I think Ron did the best he could on this issue as a politician, I don’t think we are wrong for taking it further than he did, in fact, I think people like us NEED to take it further than he did) but I don’t think he ever lied and said they were fighting for our freedoms either.

  2. More Novelty Songs
    They’re Coming To Take Me Away Ha-Haa – 1966 – Jerry Samuels

    Disco Duck – Rick Dees – 1976

    Junk Food Junkie – Larry Groce – 1976

    Children’s Street Culture Songs

    “Battle Hymn”
    Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
    We have tortured every teacher, we have broken every rule
    Tomorrow afternoon, we will hang the principal
    Our troops are marching on …

    Glory, glory hallelujah
    Teacher hit me with a ruler
    I met her at the door with a loaded .44
    Now she ain’t my teacher no more

    On top of the schoolhouse. All covered with blood
    I shot my poor teacher. With a .44 slug.
    I went to her funeral. I went to her grave
    Most people threw flowers. But I threw grenades.

    My Bonnie has tuberculosis. My Bonnie has one rotten lung
    She coughs in bloody convulsions.
    And dries it and sells it for gum

    Jingle Bells. Batman Smells. Robin Laid an Egg
    The Batmobile Lost a Wheel. And the Joker got away.

    Randolph the six-gun shooter. Had a very shiny gun
    And if you ever saw it. You would turn around and run
    All of the other cowboys. Used to laugh and call him names
    They never let poor Randolph. Join in any poker games

    Then one foggy Saturday. The Sheriff came to say
    “Randolph with your gun so bright,
    Won’t you shoot my wife tonight?”

  3. Some of my comments have been deleted, I am taken aback. I thought this was a place where people could debate, and most importantly, offer extremely different points of views.

    Have fun only allowing posts that agree with your version of a status quo. I’m assuming the Glenn Beck worshipping Dom is the one who did this. Just like I’m sure it was him who completely ignored my request to become a member of the forum here. This site allows multiple comments from the user named “clover” but someone like me, who is “on your side” on MOST issues can’t offer my point of view? Thanks for exposing yourselves.

    • Hi Jacob,

      We just switched servers – and lots of stuff was lost (including several of my own posts). Nothing was done to target you! I’m only just now getting back – I’ve been locked out for the entire day!

      Please bear with. No one is “out to get you” – or anyone else here!

      • Yeah, it was sudden, too. The latest posts in the sidebar went back to what they had been earlier in the day and every thread I was watching lost several posts. Sorry to hear you got locked out of your own house, so to speak.

        Don’t worry. We’ll jump in there and clog your threads again in no time, eric. 😉

        Thanks to you and Dom for all the work you put into this site. This is one of the few places I even post responses to anymore. Most other blogs have that Disqus or some facebook login discussion format. This one reminds me of the ’90s online discussion boards, where men were men and the sheep were nervous. ahaha

        • Thanks Ed. This site is a lot of fun for us and we really enjoy and value all of our guests and regulars. It takes a lot of time and work though. I think it’s more work than most people realize. Dealing with servers and the companies for the most part absolutely sucks. It’s a fucking racket and these assholes hold your site hostage when you try to leave. This last session was the worst yet. They adjusted files making the migration completely impossible using the method I’m used to. I had to command line the migration and I was out of my comfort zone. It’s done now, we lost of little bit of data. I didn’t do a final rsync, but fuck it we’re back in business. Thanks again!

        • Thanks, Ed!

          And: We will never – ever – have anything to do with Facebook. Not for a million dollars. Fuck ’em and feed ’em fish heads!

    • Oh mang, thanks for the good laugh. Sometimes hard for people to believe, but this site is a side line and doesn’t pay my bills. I actually have a job that I spend 50+ hours a week at. I also am a Prince William County Public Schools activities volunteer/instructor at a middle school which I do two evenings a week. I run a concrete casting business on the weekends. If that is not enough, I’m not able to use the net at work because I’m on a secured facility. Which means the ONLY real support I can offer during the day is via my smart phone. All the real web work I do is done during the evening after I get home around 7 or so. Oh yeah I have a family too! Also, I spent 20+ hours in the past three days dealing with site migration issues (guess you noticed). Have some patients bro I’m fucking exhausted and the week ain’t even half over.

      “the Glenn Beck worshipping Dom”

      The comments I supposedly deleted:

      • Dom,

        Is it possible to close (ie stop accepting) comments when you change servers or do other maintenance to the site? Would this help prevent comments being lost?

        • It is.. I left a final post saying not to comment, but that didn’t work. I was almost able to keep Eric from posting a final rant but he did anyhow! LOL

          I didn’t want the site to seem broke. Guess I should have locked it down. We only lost a few comments.

          • “a final post saying not to comment,” – Oh, so that’s what you meant.

            Ok, got it for next time.

            And you cut off your excellent advise about riding in the rain: only go out when the forecast is less than 50/50,… and, oh crap, I forgot the other part.

            I’ll just have to go with Boothe’s advise:

            “The Road 3 series have more sipes than the 2s do and shed water better to prevent hydroplaning.”

          • About riding in the rain:

            Chill for the first 20 or so minutes. Just pull over and wait if you can. That is the time when all the surface grime and oils are running off (so the most slippery).

          • I’m not sure how this thread moved from the Golden Ticket post, but on riding in the rain: Eric’s right, hard rain stings and riding in it with no gear will give you serious incentive to carry gear if the forecast is >10% chance of precip. Hail is a helluva lot worse and calls for finding the nearest overpass / parking deck / gas station overhang, gear or no gear (unless your gear includes a complete set of Imperial Storm Trooper armor).

            Dom is also quite correct on waiting for the surface oil to float and wash off the road. There are two categories of riders: those who have dropped a bike and those who are going to drop a bike. If you are in the second category, a fast way to make it into the first category is to ride on heavily traveled pavement during an incipient rain. You may not end up on your ass, but there’s a good bet that you will or worse.

            When I was 18 y.o., I was riding from Biloxi to Gulfport, Miss. on a Honda CB360T. Rain started about halfway there. As I came up on an intersection the light turned red and I hit the brakes as I normally would. It seemed like nothing happened and then I realized both wheels were locked up! I sailed through that intersection like I hadn’t even applied the brakes. Thank God everything was flat and smooth because there was no gyroscopic effect on the wheels at that point. And I am also really blessed that no one on that side road pulled out in front of me. I needed a shoehorn to get my rectum loose from the seat cover and it took a lot of ArmorAll to get that pucker mark out of the vinyl too!

            Needless to say, I’ve never forgotten that little lesson. The oil had just floated on well used roads which were oyster shell and tar (there’s not a whole lot of gravel available down on the Gulf) which is slick on a dry day. Worse, that was 1978 and oil slicks at the intersections and oil strips down the lane centers were common. The roads (at least around here anyway) seem a lot cleaner nowadays. My best advice, if you run into a summer shower, is to find an eatery or a watering hole and wait it out. If you can’t wait and have good tires / gear, drop down to grandma speeds and prepare for stops at least twice the distance you think it will take. Otherwise will probably be in the category of “those who have dropped a bike” that much quicker.

    • Jacob, calm down. The registration problem came from dom having to ban whole ISPs because of clover and his co-workers. He answered my registration request immediately, from his smartphone while he was at work.

      BTW, I’ll bet that if Glen Beck got in arm’s reach of dom for 10 seconds, we’d witness the quickest ass whipping on record. 😉

  4. David, thanks for booting this one back up. It gives me the chance to repeat what I usually say about Randall Paul:

    He’s a republican first, last and always (not a libertarian), he’s a budding neocon, and he looks like a fuckin’ hobbit.

  5. I don’t like Rand’s tactics very much but I’m still going to vote for him. I know this was posted before the filibuster so I’m not sure if any of you guys changed your thoughts. I don’t think Rand Paul is nearly what his dad is. That said, I think he would definitely be significantly better than anyone else with a realistic shot at winning. Sadly, there’s a cult of military worship in this country and if you’re going to try to win, you have to at least pay lip service to it. Again, I don’t like this. I don’t think its ethical. I couldn’t do it. But I definitely think Rand might be saying this in order to make people think he respects the military, even if he doesn’t completely believe it. I don’t see how anyone who actually knows anything would seriously believe that the troops are defending our freedoms. Rand is DEFINITELY smarter than that…

    Admittedly, Rand has said that if Israel is attacked, he would support them. I completely disagree with Rand, not for any particular dislike of Israel (At least compared to any other country) but because I’m a consistent advocate of a noninterventionist foreign policy. I’d be saying the same thing if Great Britain was attacked. I don’t think Rand has ever said, however, that he would support Israel if THEY were the aggressors. That’s a SIGNIFICANTLY better position than the typical neocon propaganda.

    I don’t really think Rand is a libertarian, at least not openly, but I think he’s a constitutional conservative and I think that’s better than what we have. If nothing else, I think voting is a valid, even if futile, defensive tactic, and if we’ve got a guy who is a lot better than anyone else and has a chance to win, I’m going to get involved in that.

    BTW I don’t agree with Rand’s comments on the military either. I hate what they do and I don’t believe that they’ve actually defended our freedoms since 1812, or 1861 if you count the CSA as being part of America…

    • Here’s my stance on Rand:

      I’ve had it with being “Charlie Browned” by Republicans – and “conservatives.” Remember poor old Charlie Brown? He’d line up to kick the football and at the last second, Lucy would always pull it away. Yet, he comes back for more – always ready to try again.

      Lucy is the GOP – and organized conservatism. Those who continue to support ’em are Charlie Browns.

      Well, I’m not playing anymore. No more trying to kick the “football” for me.

      I only trust those who have taken a principled stand – and never compromised those principles. Rand has on several occasions taken stands I regard as unprincipled – as well as comprised principles he supposedly holds dear. I therefore do not trust him.

      More broadly, I think we are long past the point at which any real change will be effected via the ballot box. A crisis of some kind is now probably inevitable. In my opinion, the United States will solidify into an outright Soviet-style authoritarian state, or (my hope) the central state erected by Lincoln and his Republicans (then accepted by the Democrats) will disintegrate as more and more people become conscious of its innate evil – the inherent evil of a system that is based on using force against peaceful individuals in the name of various collectives – and we achieve a society based on voluntarism and free cooperation/free association, with the Non Aggression Principle the only law – the law that makes other laws superfluous.

      Perhaps along the way toward that goal, we will see regional blocks/states with authority increasingly devolved to local control.. .

      In any case, the unitary state, the federal leviathan, has got to go. It cannot be “fixed” by Rand Paul or Ron Paul or even (if he could be reincarnated) Thomas Jefferson himself …

      • Yeah, I get what you’re saying. I actually like Ron Paul better than any of the Founders, the Founders were hugely inconsistent and wanted a government that was bigger than what is optimal (We would have been better off keeping the AoC.) Thomas Jefferson became a bit of a hypocrite when he became President. Call me crazy, but I seriously do think Ron Paul would have ruled according to principle. He obviously never cared much about power or winning.

        Rand falls short of that ideal, admittedly. I partially trust him a little more because of Ron, Ron did say recently that he and Rand agree 99% of the time, and while I think that was an exaggeration, I don’t think it was a deliberate lie. Ron Paul would not lie.

        I don’t think electing Rand Paul is going to fix all our problems. I wouldn’t even be shocked if I had to vote against him in four years. I don’t really trust him in the White House. I just think he’d be better than anyone else, by far. Ron Paul also might have an influence on him if he got in, you can’t say that about anyone else.

        Admittedly, I’m not an anarchist. I support extremely limited government (At this point, I don’t want a Federal government either, they are indeed too far gone to be any help, although if the Feds ever did collapse I’d have to hurry out of NYS to New Hampshire or some other state that would at least partially give a whit about my liberty) but not no government at all, so theoretically what I want could be achieved at the ballot box. That’s still extremely unlikely, however, and Rand Paul doesn’t go nearly far enough to do it for me.

        At the end of the day, I’ve got nothing to lose by rolling the dice on Rand, but I acknowledge that I’m rolling the dice and that I might lose. And yeah, we probably are headed for an absolutist dictatorship, that’s part of why I’m so scared and willing to support someone like Rand in hopes of temporarily delaying it.

        Ron Paul, of course, is my favorite politician EVER.

        • You’re right about the Founders – TJ especially.

          Much as I admire the guy, like all of us, he wasn’t perfect. His ownership of slaves was egregious. And I am not a fan of his “decidership” when it came to the Louisiana Purchase, which was done autocratically, on his say-so alone (initially).

          I also think you’re on the money with regard to your estimation of Ron Paul. As far as his son, well, I agree it probably can’t hurt to vote for him.

          But I also think we’ll make a lot more progress by waking up as many people as we can. And we do that by de-legitimizing not just the current government but all of them – government as such. This notion that it’s a given we must cede authority over our lives to other people (because “government” is just an abstraction; it is people who control other people) for one reason or another.

          There is in fact no reason to cede any authority over your life to other people. The one – and only – claim other people have over you is that you refrain from doing them violence. And they, in turn, refrain from doing violence to you.

          That is the law – the natural law. The law that makes all other laws non sequiturs.

          • I completely forgot abot this. There’s a huge debate on RonPaulForums about Rand again. Here’s ultimately what I’d like to know. I know you trust Ron Paul, as I do. Ron apparently trusts Rand. Why do you think that is? I ask that as an honest question that I don’t know the answer to. If Rand really is a snake in the grass, wouldn’t Ron know that, and wouldn’t he have told us already, or at least been completely silent rather than defending Rand? Ron Paul is a smart guy too, I don’t see it as particularly likely that Rand would completely fool him and that he’d miss it. And I trust Ron Paul too much to think he’d flat out lie to us, even for his own son.

            So… why does Ron trust Rand?

            Regarding government, I’m not necessarily convinced of anarcho-capitalism yet, although I’ve only even been a libertarian for a year or so, so there’s still time. All that said, I definitely want a government MUCH smaller than what even Rand is advocating. Rand does “Play the game” a bit, but I don’t really think he’s a neocon. I’ve heard plenty of people who have said things about the military defending our freedoms that are NOT neocons, people that I KNOW are not neocons because I know them personally. I think they’re inconsistent, yes, and I completely disagree with them, but I can tell the difference. Rand Paul isn’t perfect but he’s definitely the most anti-war of any of the politicians in the senate right now (I think Amash and Massie probably have him beaten in the House.)

            And yeah, I agree Rand isn’t really a libertarian either, or at least not openly. I’d take Ron over his son any day. But Rand does pass my 80% threshold so far. I’d rather somebody who wants to cut government in half than someone who wants to double it. Yeah, my ideal is to cut it more like 95%, but we’ve got to start somewhere.

            I actually agree with you that we aren’t going to win this battle politically. Even if we could convince you ancaps to participate and actually try to get Rand elected, I still don’t think the majority of the population would support him. He’s not really a libertarian, but he’s too much so for the majority of the country.

            There are a few points of strategy where I really disagree with Rand, of course. I think raising the age of the entitlements is absolutely stupid, yes that is the smartest way to “Save” them, but why would I want to save the unconstitutional, immoral wealth transfer system? Unfortunately, Rand could never win on the platform I’d want him to run. Honestly, I can’t morally endorse the kind of compromise he’s doing, but it is kind of like the whole “Shadow Juror” thing (Assuming Ron Paul’s trust in him really is accurate.) I don’t believe lying in those sorts of ways is a violation of the NAP, and I respect greatly those who choose to use dirty tactics like that in order to ensure that victimless “criminals” do not get convicted, but I still couldn’t do it. My Christian convictions would not allow for me to do it.

            I went a few different places here… I might not trust Rand Paul by himself, but I do trust Ron and Ron seems to trust Rand. I do think Ron exaggerated when he said Rand agrees with him 99% of the time (Unless he knows something we don’t, which is completely possible, Ron Paul is Rand’s father after all) but I don’t think he was deliberately lying to us.

            I admit there’s an extremely low chance that Rand actually wins in this country (You guys aren’t helping by refusing to support him, lol) and there’s still a chance that the District of Criminals corrupts him once he gets in. I don’t think electing Rand Paul is the ultimate solution here. As one RPF member pointed out, since Rand Paul is the best candidate we have right now, its kind of like Pascal’s Wager. If you support him, the worst thing that happens is that nothing changes, but he could well make things better. If you don’t support him, the best scenario is that nothing changes, but you could also fail at an opportunity to positively change things.

            I don’t defend Rand Paul’s platform absolutely, and I think its too lukewarm. I can’t defend his votes for sanctions, and his wishy-washy statements on drug legalization. I can just say… I really don’t see anything to lose, and I do trust Ron Paul when he says his son is on our side, even if he isn’t completely right on everything, if you get my meaning.

            All that said, RON PAUL is truly the new and improved Jefferson. I have no doubt that if the Founders were still alive today, however imperfect they were, they would absolutely have endorsed Ron Paul over the unlimited government supported by basically everyone else in that election. Even Alexander Hamilton would gasp at how much we’ve lost. Abraham Lincoln is still laughing (I’ll point out, interestingly, when Rand Paul was asked about Lincoln, he actually gave a very nuanced take and did NOT worship the centralizing despot like most in politics do.)

  6. This is my first post on this site, I was directed here from lewrockwell.com and man, what a treasure trove of brilliant people sharing their thoughts.

    Anyways, I completely agree (yet again) with your writings, Eric. Rand Paul is simply riding on the coat tails of Ron and I think the only reason Ron hasn’t “ripped him a new one, publicly” is because he has too much respect for his son. Which is a shame, considering neither of them have given any explanation for Rand’s endorsement of Romney while Ron was still running for the presidency.

    • Welcome, Jacob – good to have you here, too!

      I’m very disappointed with Rand Paul. It’s not just one mistake. We all err – including philosophically/ethically. What troubles me about Rand is that he has repeatedly erred. He has defended the warfare state and the welfare state. He panders to the neo-con right. I’ve therefore dismissed him as another “conservative” cat’s paw and no friend of the liberty movement.

      • I suppose the one “good” thing to come from Rand Paul is the outing of his neocon supporters who, just like the other neocons, were hiding behind rhetoric in order to gain support. I’ve been banned from numerous “libertarian” pages on Facebook for expressing my disgust of Rand and his “tactics”. Sad and yet refreshing to see these morons expose themselves.

    • @Jacob – “I’m going to vote for them and you should too!” That reminds me of the line from Judge Dredd “Eat recycled food. Recycled food is good for the environment and okay for you!” I would like to believe that Rand is a sleeper, toeing the party line until he can get where he needs to be to really change things. But like Eric, I refuse to get “Charlie Brown-ed” again. The GOP is Lincoln’s party. Practically all of us posting here know exactly how king Lincoln “saved the Union.” The only thing Lincoln abolished was decentralization through the individual state governments!

      Let us also never forget that Ron Paul packed the appropriations bills with things for his district, then voted against each bill knowing full well it would pass anyway. Or to put it another way, he knew his vote didn’t count, and that’s pragmatism over principle from my viewpoint. I’ve had numerous people over the years try to persuade me to get into politics. I consider myself to be very principled, but as ol’ Clint said “A man’s got to know his limitations.” And principled or not I know all too well that I am fallible and flawed. I also know that the higher you go in any “system”, the greater the temptations you are presented with. Call me cynical, but I look at the political pool much like I look at a septic tank; I seriously doubt anyone can swim in it without getting covered in shit.

  7. Except for abortion I don’t remember Ron Paul ever appearing morally inconsistent on any issue. He applies the same principles to everything and what you see is what you get. That’s what I always liked so much about him.

    I say abortion because he believes everyone has a right to do with their body what they want, except when it comes to pregnancy.

    Having said that, I admit that abortion is the same for me. I do not know when life begins and when a fetus has rights and until I can answer that question I can’t say if abortion is wrong or not.

    I know Dr. Paul’s position comes from years of delivering babies and his religious beliefs.

    • No, he’s perfectly consistent, Don.

      It’s not the woman’s body; it’s hers, AND the baby’s.

      Many of us believe this way…speaking only for myself of course 🙂

      But coming from this perspective, you can see he’s still consistent.

  8. This issue has shown itself to be near ideal “litmus paper” as to whether one has Neocon tendencies hiding behind their libertarian “front.” Check out this thread where Ticker Forum host Karl Denninger shows his true colors. Note the generous use of “straw man” arguments in his statements, as well as liberal use of his “ban hammer.” He’s usually right on point on these issues, but is unable to parse Ron Paul’s infamous tweet, and it’s not the first time he’s come down hard on Paul. Agree his son is a worthless twit. The comments are worth scrolling down for, as well.



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