CNN recently did a story – video below – about armed government workers forcibly detaining people for exercising their Fifth Amendment right to not answer questions.
The armed government workers are Border Patrol workers but they’re not anywhere near the border. They are dragnet stopping every car on roads often as far as 100 miles from the border and interrogating drivers as to their citizenship.
When a person asserts their Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, they are punished for doing so by being forcibly detained for as long as several hours. As in the case of another despicable practice – civil asset forfeiture – the people haven’t been charged with any crime. They are abused for being “uncooperative” with government goons – which isn’t a crime but most surely is an offense.
Offending the authority of the authorities is becoming the crime – as it once was in other times and places.
Note also the irony of American citizens being denied their rights as citizens.
The first right being the presumption of innocence. To not have to disprove to the satisfaction of armed government goons that one isn’t guilty of . . . something. It was once the case that the government had the burden of proving accused people guilty – and could not apply punish until after that guilt had been established in a court.
The second right being free from warrantless, probable cause-free searches as per the Fourth Amendment prohibition of such as unreasonable.
And then their right to not answer questions barked at them by armed government workers, on the altogether sound reasoning that order-barking armed government workers are threatening in both a physical/literal sense as well as a legal sense. The victim is under duress; his sole safety lies in silence.
Such rights are no longer respected – despite being not only the law but the bedrock law of the United States – assuming the Constitution (of which the Bill of Rights is a component) remains the law.
Of course, the Constitution no longer is the law. Not in any meaningful sense – the plain English sense. Talmudic parsing of the Constitution’s plain English has discovered reasonableness in random, probable-cause-free dragnet searches and interrogations on account of “compelling state interest,” which English is nowhere to be found in the Constitution (including most of all the Bill of Rights).
And the presumption of innocence? Thrown in the Woods – along with the rest of the Bill of Rights. The real law is not the Constitution. It is whatever the government – government workers, including the armed ones as well as the robed ones – proclaim it to be, at their whim. Even when it is manifestly the opposite of the plain English written on that “goddam piece of paper,” as another government worker, in a moment of candor, once called it.
So why are we obliged to abide by it? To respect it? To consider it binding on us? Perhaps we ought to withdraw our consent – which of course non of us have ever formally given in the first place.
And how did it come to pass that the Border Patrol is patrolling – and much more – far away from the border? If the border is no longer the border then there is no border – in which case, why is there a border patrol?
The answer is these goons are not border patrolling. They are habituating the populace to internal checkpoints. And the purpose of that is to get people used to the idea that they are not free to travel.
That – in due time – they will need to get permission to travel.
This is already the case with regard to travel outside the United States, of course. People haven’t been free to come and go as they like since long before the police state’s most holy day – and convenient justification; the one conveniently and coincidentally named the same thing as the name people were already habituated to using in emergencies.
And it’s becoming the case just traveling down to the store.
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“Neither Predator nor Prey” by Mark Spungin is an excellent read, sure to take one’s mind off such matters.
There is an excellent book out “You Have the Right to Remain Innocent By James Duane. I think it is important for everyone to read this. One of the most alarming things is Prof Duane documents cases in which the courts have allowed prosecutors to claim that a person taking the fifth is evidence of his guilt! The logic being that old saw we keep hearing “If you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide”
Never talk to the police, never ever but do not claim the 5th, the way around it is to appear as if you want to cooperate but need your lawyer to advise first on the best way to help.
The book documents several episodes where innocent people have gone to prison, people who have done nothing at all but try to be cooperative with the police.
a few hours detention is vastly better than being convicted of something you didn’t do, and this is done to people all the time every day in every state.
NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE, Always ask for a lawyer before saying anything at all.
Here’s my standard set of lines to use on the roadblockers:
In a consensual conversation with a cop, my answer to any question is, “What can I tell you?”. I may also ask, “Can I go now?” or “Am I locked up?”. I always say these things pleasantly and calmly.
Cop: “Where are you going today?”
Me: “What can I tell you?”
Cop: “Answer my question, sir.”
Me: “Can I go now?”
Cop: “I asked you where you’re going”.
Me: “Am I locked up?”
Cop: “Do you want to be locked up?”
Me: ” What can I tell you?”
The truth of the matter is that you don’t have to talk to a cop even if you are “locked up”. Cops don’t keep their jobs or advance in the ranks by any other means than arresting people. They lie routinely, especially in court, and are not to be trusted under any circumstances.
Why help them convict you of a crime? Clam up, or compose a few simple short questions or comments that you’ll repeat to the cops, never deviating from them.
This is a repost of a comment I made here 5 years ago. Anarchyst is free to bust my balls for reposting it, since I bust his balls when he does the same. 😉
I like this – and will not bust your balls for reposting. Because it was worth reposting!
It will come down to mass acts of “civil” disobedience, which means that like Ghandi taught, rather than resort to outright violence, you passively resist to the point where the “oppressors” give up out of frustration.
Me, I’d just tell the Border Patrol Agent, “Officer, since we’re not at a port of entry into the United States nor an International Airport or a sea port, I don’t recognize your authority to detain me nor do I have to answer any of your goddamned questions. I advise, you, sir, to kindly get the fuck out of my way, because I’m doing what I goddamned please, which is driving lawfully down the road!” Then put the car in gear and advance forward…
And be greeted by a hail of bullets and your blood all over the inside of your vehicle.
Yup. Precisely. They’re not liable for the lives they take or property they destroy when they fire their guns, that’s a perk of being a costumed jack booted thug. It’s on you to survive the encounter, they can do whatever they want.
Just say you want to help but need the advice of your attorney. If the cop asks why you need a lawyer, you just simply say, “I want to help you and my lawyer will help me do that to best effect.”
This issue separates authentic rugged individualist paleo-libertarians from alt-right / dissident right / race is everything red-pilled collectivists. The latter are right to be concerned with the invasion of the black and brown third world hordes, but, alas, they commit the fatal conceit in cogitating that there is a collectivist solution to the problem.
Giving more power to the clowned costumed set is not going to restore Heritage America. Those that think so only demonstrate that they are of middling wit for nowhere in history is there irrefutable evidence to support the proposition that giving the king more power results in an expansion of individual liberty, a more prosperous economy, more peace, and a more stable culture.
The solution to the seemingly incessant wave of third world analphabets flooding America is to dramatically reduce the size of the state, its praetorian guard, its constabularies, its social welfare programs, and all of the other public sector parasites who have and continue to rob us of our treasure.
When there are no pesos for Pedro, he will not be motivated to come to America. When there are no welfare dollars for Dontavius, he will either have to become productive or starve. If either Pedro or Dontavius think that violating the NAP is the solution, introduce them to Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.
But, make no mistake about it, the alt right / dissident right believes that a bigger, more muscular ICE is the solution. Devotees of the dissident right contend that we are delusional and that in order to save the white race, there must be a powerful central government. In my view, which is in harmony with reality and human nature, they are the ones who are delusional.
To be sure, it is in our interest to make alliances where practical, but we should never submit to any regime under which Papers Please is a feature.
Yes, exactly; I have had this same discussion with several of my conservative friends. I point out that most of the things they dislike about immigration exist because of government. The solution is therefore not more government!
I believe that the answer to illegal immigration is pretty simple. Give them NOTHING. No health care/emergency services, no schooling, no driver license, food stamps, housing, NOTHING! And of course, most of this crap shouldn’t be available to lazy ass amuuricans either! Give people nothing, immigrant or citizen, make your own way in the world or die. I don’t really give a shit. You have no right to steal my money (even if you call it “taxes”) in order to provide for shitbags who can’t/won’t take care of themselves. As a libertarian, I have no problem with immigration, after all no “government” should own the world or any part of it. I have the god given right to settle or live wherever the fuck I want. However, I do not have the right to make other people pay for my choices.
I keep trying to get the message across that people moving freely from nation to nation is what happens last. It’s the last step in building a paradise of liberty. Few seem to understand it. But so long as there is a state that can be exploited mass immigration is not going to bring us more liberty. If we have liberty then mass immigration probably won’t happen and if it does it can’t be used to hurt us.
It comes down to this, GovCo takes your money, at gunpoint if necessary, and sets up offices full of bureaucrats to give said money to others. When Pedro and Dontavius (to use your examples) find out that they can get this money for little or no effort and show up to collect, the “alr-right/dissident right blames Pedro and Dontavius. They totally ignore their WASP neighbor, literally in some cases, that’s employed by GovCo to dispense their cash.
Years ago I stopped blaming the “welfare queens” for taking advantage of a system set up to be taken advantage of. The real blame goes to the LBJ’s, Ted Kennedy’s and others, left and right, that set up these systems in the first flippin’ place.
” never submit to any regime under which Papers Please is a feature.”
They usually don’t say “please”
To compare and contrast,
In my former life I found myself traveling to the Soviet Union a few times ( after Stalin of course) But in the USSR they actually used to say “please”. The Soviet cops were very polite courteous and helpful. The passport control and customs at the border were way more professional that then TSA. Yes my escort used to spy on me but it was expected and maybe flattering on one level – she looked like a refugee from a Bond movie – but alas never tried to seduce me) Bot they were never discourteous and I never had one ever point a gun at me, in the US I had a cop nearly shoot me for getting out of my car when I pulled over to help a friend with a flat tire and the cop had stopped to tell him he couldn’t “park” there.
I’ve also had guns drawn on me by “heroes”… for no legitimate reason. I’m a clean-cut, articulate, middle-aged white guy; no “criminal” record. I am not confrontational But all it took to get the “hero” in Officer Safety Mode was to (in one case) get off my motorcycle and (in another) have the effrontery to question the bastard.
I’ve grown to despise them as a class, after years of trying to make excuses for the (ahem) “decent” ones.