Punished Regardless

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Did you know that when you’re stopped for no reason at a drunk driving checkpoint – well, stopped for no reason having anything to do with something you did to suggest you might be “drunk” – your refusal to participate in self-incrimination can result in your arrest, loss of your government permission slip to travel as well as the impounding of your car?

Your “cooperation” is not only appreciated – it is required.

This not-much-discussed aspect of Checkpoint USA is arguably even worse than the existence of Checkpoint USA – which came into being in the ’80s, when the government decided to re-interpret the limits of its own authority (a problem with government) by summarily decreeing it to be “reasonable” to randomly and arbitrarily stop people and treat them as presumptively guilty of having committed a crime.

The thing George Mason and others who insisted on the Bill of Rights as their condition for reluctantly supporting the dodgy Constitution (which was confected by an elitist minority, behind closed doors and without any mandate from “the people” mentioned in the Declaration of Independence) feared would come to pass had come to pass.

Despite the Bill and its very lucid delineation of the the lines across which the government has no rightful authority to tread, the government simply “interpreted” the line more to its liking – at its pleasure.

The government became the arbiter of its own power almost as soon as the ink on the Constitution dried – limiting first freedom of speech (Alien & Sedition acts) and many other formerly sacrosanct rights of the people – including freedom of association and the freedom to actually own property – during the ensuing years.

In the ’80s, it cast aside the Bill of Rights’ very clear prohibition of unreasonable searches – which by any etymological standard encompasses the arbitrary and random searching of everyone who just happens to be available.

But it’s not just being forced to stop without your having given reason to warrant it – or forced to submit to a search just because the government is powerful and you are not.

In many states, there is the additional requirement in law that, if ordered to do so by an armed government worker, you must perform gymnastics by the side of the road to demonstrate you are not “drunk.” Or breathe into a notoriously inaccurate device which provides evidence that can and will be used against you.

If you decline to perform the roadside gymnastics – for any of several practical and moral reasons, including perhaps because you aren’t coordinated and are nervous and the prospect of stumbling in front of the AGW, who will seize that as evidence of your “drunkeness” alarms you . . . or decline to “blow” into the apparatus presented by the AGW because you are aware of the notorious inaccuracy of roadside Breath Tests and prefer not to participate in self-incrimination that way … either is cause by itself for the AGW to apply handcuffs and take you to a cage and your car to an impound lot.

It does not matter that nothing has been proved against you. Your refusal to provide evidence is the evidence.

You are effectively tried, convicted – and punished – for being uncooperative. This has become a very serious de facto offense, even in the absence of any statutory offense.

And the “conviction” sticks even when de jure innocence of any statutory offense – including the “drunk driving” charge you were cuffed and stuffed for – has been established later on.

They win, you lose – regardless. Black Friday Ads of top retailers will be the center of attention in November.

The person who refuses to cooperate by self-incriminating or who simply objects to the idea of cooperating with those attempting to incriminate him is automatically subject, in many states, to the immediate forfeiture of government permission to travel (i.e., one’s driver’s license) even if it is later determined – as by forced blood draw while in the custody of AGWs – that the victim had zero alcohol in his bloodstream.

It’s only a little bit removed from water-boarding or the use of the Iron Maiden – both of which are probably coming.

The legal concept of subjecting a presumptively innocent person – which used to be every person not actually convicted of a criminal act by a jury after due process of law – to duress in order to suborn his “cooperation” in his own prosecution is literally Medieval. The sort of thing done in dungeons by black robed, hairy-armed inquisitors in the employ of the Church or the King.

Today, the inquisitors wear body armor and have tattoos; are jacked  up on steroids rather than Jesus (though some of them profess that as well) and the duress is administered in a euphemized and bureaucratized manner intended to make it seem All Right.

But it is not All Right for state authority especially to subject an innocent person – whatever you may think he’s done – to hot irons and thumbscrews or any other form of duress in  order to make it easier to prosecute him.

And it is far worse to apply punishment to a presumptively innocent person for objecting to being treated as though presumptively guilty – who insists on being proved guilty of something other than being “uncooperative” before the state applies punishment.

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  1. Further evidence, if it is really necessary, that a Bill of Rights is only as valuable as those willing to defend it, and of a government to understand and subjugate itself to its own rules.

    Like Stalin’s chief lieutenant Laurent Beryea said, “Everyone can vote. It depends upon who counts the votes.” And it supports every claim that the so-called “justices” on the Supreme Court are either illiterate or have criminal intent.

    • Hi Travis,

      “…and of a government to understand and subjugate itself to its own rules”.

      Or, as James Madison said, “you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place, oblige it to control itself.”

      Will the absurdity of this ever be understood, even by most libertarians? Legally limited government is a fiction, impossible in both theory and practice. Government is limited only by the resources available to it and the attitude of the people concerning its’ legitimacy. As long as most people, including many libertarians, believe that is necessary and can be “limited” by words on paper, it will continue to metastasize. It may be that that humanity will be forever plagued by the State but, it is certainly true that, even the possibility of a “minarchy” depends on widespread distrust of government, all of it not just the “bad” side. Until enough people consider government to be, as Rothbard said, “a criminal gang, writ large”, it will continue to grow and become more invasive and authoritarian.


      • That’s why Madison also said that our “Constitution is suitable only for a moral and religious people. It is totally unsuited to the governance of any other.”

  2. OK, so you are pulled over to the side of the road for “suspected” impaired driving. Then put through an FST and/or breathalyzer. Whether or not you are impaired, it strikes me that this procedure is unsafe by so many orders of magnitude. Every minute spent in or near a vehicle or vehicles stopped just off a driving lane–particularly under these circumstances–increases your chances of being struck by a driver distracted by the circus taking place on the shoulder. Would it not be at least safer–albeit equally unjust–to put the suspect driver into the police vehicle and move to a safe place in order to conduct the inquisition?

    In a similar vein, I never know whether to laugh or yell every time one of those changeable “message boards” hanging over the freeway distracts all motorists by flashing a message cautioning them against distracted driving (or about an “amber alert” or anything else, for that matter). These also remind me that some G drone is actually paid to sit on his/her/its ass and make stuff up for non-emergency sign-time.

    • Last year coming up on a bridge repair on US 180 there was a sign there, one of those changeable jobs. Somebody had hacked it and it read FUCK TEXAS! I laughed all the way home. I was looking for a pic on my phone yesterday and say that one in an old text. Showed it to the wife and we both laughed.

      Every phone I’ve had I disabled the “amber alerts” but couldn’t disable the one supposedly from the Prez. Probably I’d want to see that one so as to get off a highway and onto a dirt road nobody uses. I certainly don’t want to consider what one of those might say.

      The wife, having a candybar phone with a tiny screen leaves hers on since she can’t pull up radar. The only time it might have helped me was when I was traveling S on RR 33 and noticed, for some weird reason mid-day, all the traffic almost, was headed north. Lines of vehicles with the same company name hauling ass north. I get a call and it’s the boss telling me to turn around and come back to the yard. WTF for I asked, it’s a nice day and I’m on my next to last load. It was an ice warning I couldn’t get on the radio since the radio didn’t work where I was. He was right. I ended up running on ice before reaching the yard. I still didn’t enable “amber alerts” though.

  3. I got stopped for making a legal u-turn at an intersection where I had a left green turn arrow (checked all the state, city, and county laws, it was the most legal u-turn possible), and got arrested because I was nervous, have to lean against a wall to put on my socks in the morning, and only knew my buddies home address (destination) as “the house across from the autozone next to the prison museum with a bunch of old cars in the yard”

    So here I am. They took my permission slip. Almost a year later, they decided to suspend it for 90 days, even though they already had it. This wasn’t even a legal proceeding mind you, the motor vehicle department has it’s own punishments, and has a lawyer, who they call a judge, revoke the license even if you haven’t been charged/convicted with anything.

    Plus, in order to get a temporary pass, for work use only, I need my driving record, which I could get instantly, if I had the 15 digit code, on my card, that they confiscated. So instead I have to wait about 3 weeks and hope the snail mail doesnt fail. At which point, a huge portion of the driving ban is already passed.

    • Hi A Guy,

      Terrible; you have my sympathy. I’ve had friends deal with similar. It’s an outrage. And the perpetrators are not worth peeing on to putout, if they caught fire.

      • If you want to add on the insult to injury, I have a number of 1940s to 1980s cars I’ve been working on/driving for over a decade, and this has made them pretty much unaffordable to insure, even if they only see 100 miles or so each a year.

        Oh yeah, and until I clear it up, my fire arms license is suspended. Even though I havent been charged with or convicted of anything.

        And this is coming from a guy who has racked up maybe 3 speeding tickets, by mistake each time, in his life.

        • a guy, you have my total sympathy. Not sure how this works but Move, get another place to live but leave that residence in your name. They come back. Now the feds are in on it. It will happen again and they’ll come in force, with or without search warrant and no telling what they’ll say they want. What they want is everything you have. They just don’t say that. BTDT.

  4. Eric, DUI and related charges of “impaired” driving are areas where not only due process but science itself is “thrown into the woods”. But since when have the police and the all-powerful state let such mundane concerns as the rule of law and scientific principles stop them?

    One thing any driver should understand: In NO state in the USA is any person, not on probation for DUI or a minor (an important distinction) REQUIRED to take a roadside, or preliminary, breathalyzer test, nor submit to a so-called “Field Sobriety Test”. Since the former are administered under road conditions which preclude accuracy, they can’t be of themselves admitted as evidence re: BAC. Field Sobriety Tests, even IF administered in good faith (meaning that the cop doing them is being objective) by an officer that is current on his training,are notoriously unreliable, as they are measures of bodily coordination and/or divided attention that have little to do with actual ability to operate a motor vehicle. There are MANY persons whom couldn’t remotely pass an FST on their best day but yet have exemplary driving records. The entire idea behind both is simply that the officer is building a case that (s)he had probable cause to make the DUI arrest that (s)he HAD ALREADY DETERMINED WOULD BE MADE. Please note that again: IF the officer is demanding (it’s supposed to be “voluntary” but we’ve seen all too many examples where the demeanor of the officer would lead any reasonable person to expect that not only is the FST NOT ‘voluntary’, you run the risk of a road-side beat-down or worse if you refuse!) that you perform the FSTs, he’s almost certainly determined that he’s going to arrest you for DUI! Therefore, as any competent attorney will advise, like talking to the police, you have NOTHING TO GAIN and EVERYTHING TO LOSE if you go along with the officer’s “request”. Of course, the officer can and will LIE and say that your refusal to perform the FSTs result in loss of your license and/or be considered “obstruction” and/or be evidence of your guilt; in NO state is that so! The trouble is that the courts PERMIT the police to LIE anyway, so they’ve nothing to lose by their bullying and intimidation. NOTE: Most states require minors and persons on DUI probation to take the preliminary breathalyzer test, or “PAST”, else it’s a violation of probation and grounds for revocation of the driver’s license, even if the subject isn’t found guilty of DUI or related lesser offenses (like a “wet reckless”).

    So, if indeed you’re wrongfully arrested, but you think, “well, I’m not been drinking, so once I ‘blow clean’ at the station, they’ll have to let me go and be on my way, right?”. DEAD WRONG. First off, unless there was someone that could take your ride away from the scene, and not all states allow that, it’s been IMPOUNDED, and at minimum, you’ll have to pay very expensive impound and tow fees to get it back, regardless of the disposition of the charge. Of course, if the tow company is kicking back some of those fees to the police’s “benevolence fund” and/or its owner happens to be the Police Chief’s brother-in-law, both parties have little incentive to NOT collect their “cut” regardless of your guilt or innocence. Some states even allow the police to seize your vehicle anyway under “Civil Asset Forfeiture” even before you’ve had your hearing, and good luck getting your ride back. And lastly, just because you “Blow Clean” at the station, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re home free! Many jurisdictions, upon finding that you’re “clean” BAC-wise, will then re-arrest you and charge you with “drugged” driving, and easily get a court order to get a blood draw, which results can take several days. Since you won’t want to be “cooling your heels” in the hoosegow, you’ll post rather expensive bail, and again, that the police chief’s wife owns the bail bonds company is “just a coincidence”. Of course, some places, like a suburban Atlanta county, dispense with the DUI arrest process for drivers that obviously haven’t been drinking, employing a “Drug Recognition Expert”, or “Drug Whisperer”, to determine the probably that you’re “on something” with a cursory examination, with as little as 40 hours of classroom training.

    Anyone still not clear on the concept that the DUI game is a law enforcement ‘racket’, not necessarily conduct with the goal of making the roads and highways safer from impaired drivers, nor based on objective application of experience and science, but simply a flimsy house of cards designed to bamboozle and shake down drivers for what they can get out of them?

    The trouble is that in the USA, we have the best justice system that MONEY CAN BUY. In most states, a decent DUI defense for a first-time charge will run about $10K to $15K of itself, assuming that there’s no other charges in the matter. If you were already on probation for anything, especially DUI itself, or there was an accident, especially where bodily injury was involved, even if only to yourself, or there were CHILDREN in your car, or alleged to be injured by you, then the cost goes UP…WAY up! Sadly, a DUI charge is probably as imperative as a father going through a divorce for the need for a good attorney, but it WILL cost.

    Naturally, the standing advice is to NEVER operate a motor vehicle when you know or suspect that you’re impaired…it’s not only the “right” thing to do from the aspect of keeping others safe, but it lessens, though not ENTIRELY obviates, your liability exposure in a situation where your guilt is presumed and you’re fairly much at the mercy of your accuser(s)! Like other encounters with law enforcement, always record, Record, RECORD it!

    Like Judge Joseph Dredd told the parking scofflaw in Mega City One, after he blew the hell out of his expensive ride: “Happy Motoring”!

    • Funny thing, in traffic school I attempted to tell the class about the truth about roadside tests but the ‘instructor’ made it clear I wasn’t to speak. Of course the class was wrongly told they were required. However I don’t think FST can be refused in all 50 states.

      The roadside tests are for the cop to build probable cause. If there is probable cause the roadside tests are bonus. Since we are dealing with the fishing sort of roadside sobriety test here, the kind that fall under ‘beyond the stop, odds are refusing them will leave the cop with no options other than to fabricate if we wants to make an arrest. If the cop is willing to do that, then refusing or not does not change the immediate outcome. A cop that will lie, will lie. He will interpret any result of the roadside tests as a failure. If the cop has probable cause already for an a arrest there is no reason to give him more. So refusal means nothing to lose.

      So even though the cop may lie and do an arrest with no actual probable cause the more legal fight in you, the more the hassle for the cop and the more risk for him. The idea is to cause him to go for easier dumber prey. The longer he spends with you the less he’ll bring in that shift and possibly losing many more shifts of productivity in the future.

    • Douglas,

      “science itself is “thrown into the woods”.”

      Got one for you. “Is HGN DOA in OUIL?”

      That was from an east coast bar journal.

      Apparently it is a crime for a cop to diagnose anything to do with the eye.

  5. While I totally agree w/ Eric on the anti American trend towards these checkpoints, they aren’t everywhere. In Texas they are repeatedly voted by the Legislature as being illegal. Possibly other states. Only the feds “near the border” immigration checkpoints exist there.

    I hate the idea of these things. But Eric is not an attorney nor does he claim to be. This issue like many “stop and search” cop procedures is larded with exceptions or judicial cases which in some cases overturn AGW’s efforts to intimidate. True, they do push unless you don’t cooperate. Rules may vary by jurisdiction. So all isn’t lost everywhere. Defense lawyers are numerous and often very smart. Criminal defense lawyers don’t write broad columns about automobile matters. Generalizing by non experts sometimes just fans the flames of defeatism and the cynicism of the helpless.

    (Now some of Eric’s volunteer keyboard bodyguards here will attack me for being a “clover.” Trying to bully those with differing opinions is a hallmark of Lefty fascists, please remember.)

    • Texas native.
      The police in this state have ‘No refusal weekends’ where they pull people over without needing probable cause.
      Related to DUI, you have the option to use breathalizer or be taken to an RV for a blood draw.
      Problem is that most of the cops that pull you over do not have a breathalizer.
      And that means you will be force-ably extracted from your vehicle, cuffed, and taken to an RV for a forced blood draw.
      If you are like me and NEVER consume alcohol, then the 2 days and $2000 it takes to get out of this crap-storm are completely illegal in a number of ways.
      And my best friend got the same treatment a year later. But he had DUI 12 years earlier so they didn’t let him out after 2 days.

      Worse part is that you need a lawyer and they will do nothing to push back against the law, the judge, or anyone.

      • Where in Texas does this happen? I know it was a big problem a couple years ago in Ft. Worth and the public was rightly pissed.

  6. Concerning State Sovereignty… List of good books at the end.

    Read a few of the State’s ratification documents. All affirm that they retain their sovereignty.
    One is free, such as we are, as long as you can prevent your person being kidnapped by a superior force, or decide you would rather do as your kidnapper says.

    ‘I preserved the Union, but I destroyed the Republic.” Abraham Lincoln

    Read – The Real Lincoln – Thomas J Dilorenzo
    Read – Lincoln Unmasked: What You’re Not Supposed to Know About Dishonest Abe – Thomas J Dilorenzo
    Caution, sit in a tub of ice water if you love liberty and your Country / not DC, your Country, as it may make your blood boil.

    “[T]he contest is really for empire on the side of the North, and for independence on that of the South, and in this respect we recognize an exact analogy between the North and the Government of George III, and the South and the Thirteen Revolted Provinces. These opinions…are the general opinions of the English nation.” London Times, November 7, 1861

    US federal court is set up in “districts” that mimic State boundaries.

    Until the people of a State decide they are willing to risk everything on the prospect of being FREE again we will wear our chains.

    I recall an episode of “Mayberry” where the bully comes to town and takes over. Ope stands up to him and by the example of one the rest stand up to throw off the chains of the tyrant.

    When you begin discredit the City, County council as they seek reelection, you will see their private army – the cops, get back in line.

    Trouble with a bunch of Barney Fifes? Find out what the Sheriff is up to, expose it during the campaign and vote him out.

    If you see a cop or deputy speeding or otherwise showing his ass, get the tag and car #, note the time and place, call it in on 911 and report a stolen squad car. Then call an have a chat with his supervisor. Tell him what happened and ask him to pull the dispatch record and the 911 call. Having the evidence on the 911 tape is a smoking gun for the record or repeat offenders. And keep your own record if you see a lot of this, helps if you decide to write to the State Attorney General.
    Be helpful and concerned for his image as that of the dept.
    Explain that you can only defend his dept to those who hate cops so much if his people flaunt the same law with the same actions that would get the rest of us arrested. Be his friend and a concerned citizen, not a complainer.
    Want to break out of the sheep fold?
    Bible Law Va the US Constitution – Ted R Weiland missiontoisrael.org
    The Law – Fredric Bastiat
    America’s Caesar (2 Volumes) – Greg Loren Durand
    Articles of Confederation: March 1, 1781 – http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/artconf.asp

    Honest Abe Wasn’t So Honest – Pastor John Wever
    “American Bastille : a history of the illegal arrests and imprisonment of American citizens during the late Civil War” – John A Marshall
    Heiland – Franklin Sanders
    The Real Lincoln – Thomas J Dilorenzo
    Lincoln Unmasked: What You’re Not Supposed to Know About Dishonest Abe – Thomas J Dilorenzo

    Nuff said,


  7. This trend as to where a person no longer has any rights or leeway in interpreting what the laws might be, has only accelerated as government has become too big for its britches. I used to drive for a living (not in a big rig) usually going through 25-30 different states during the year. I have been stopped for all kinds of reasons of which only once was a clear driving law violation. I found more checkpoints in the south and east than in the Midwest. Being on a driving schedule and unfamiliar with streets, I just went through the checkpoints without any trouble. But this increasing ramp up of authority, from every direction, is extremely disconcerting. Maybe, for many Americans, they only read the stories and find them a bit hard to understand or even believe simply because Big Brother hasn’t directly come knocking on their door and demanded they surrender their freedoms. Many of us might not have to wait much longer. Excellent article to arouse our awareness because most of the time we just aren’t paying attention.

  8. I’m an infrastructure nerd. Especially stuff that’s out in the middle of nowhere. As such I visit a lot of dams. One of my favorite is the Morrow Point dam on the Gunnison River. It is kind of unique in that it is a double-arch dam and has two large spillways in the middle of the structure. I’ve never been able to see the spillways open because Uncle’s Bureau of Reclamation modulates the water level by holding back water on the Blue Mesa dam upstream. However with the snow runoff this year the bureaucrats have opened up the floodgates and the spillways are flowing.

    What’s the problem? Well, I happen to fly drones. I have a license issued by the FAA (“Part 107” certification) that says I can fly safely and agree to follow the rules of the airspace. I brought my drone along yesterday just in case I got the opportunity to fly it, knowing the area I was pretty sure I could get some spectacular images of the dam. But of course the boys over at the Bureau of Reclamation don’t want drones around their dam, so they got regulation 43 CFR 423.41(g) passed.

    “(g)You must not operate model aircraft except as allowed in special use areas established by an authorized official under subpart E of this part 423.”

    Now, this should be in conflict with the FAA, who states they control the airspace. All airspace. From 1mm above the ground to the edge of space. But read again, it’s about “operating” a model aircraft. Of course a drone isn’t a model of an aircraft, it’s an aircraft (just a really small one). A model of an aircraft is something kids build to get high on glue, but I don’t have enough money to fight that battle. And of course if anyone would take them to court over the word “model” they’d just change the wording to fit. I could operate from outside the “no drone” area, which I considered, but because there were a number of people there I figured I better not risk it, since a few people might feel the need to become “unofficial informants” and rat me out to the man.

    But here we are, with two different departments setting up diametrically opposed regulations. Morrow Point is in class G airspace and the entire structure is flyable without violating the rules, yet because some wanna-be Dr Strangelove came up with a Hollywood fiction style worst case scenario about terrorists using drones to blow up dams no one can fly. Even though the FAA says it’s OK. Just like there’s no law against making a U turn or routing around a checkpoint, because it displeases one group of bureaucrats it will effective ban the activity. With the stroke of a pen.

  9. A few years ago I was driving home and I saw a sign notifying me of a drink driving checkpoint ahead. I simply executed a safe and legal u turn before the checkpoint and went home another way. The police did not chase me as I was perfectly within my rights to do what I did.

    • It’s been nearly 10 years since I saw one of those signs. Fortunately the cops foolishly set up their checkpoint in an area with lots of side streets, so lots of drivers (including myself) simply detoured around it.

      • Hi Zenit,

        In re the side streets: It is practice for AGWs to go after anyone they see turn off/make a U-turn to “avoid” a checkpoint. Because that, of course, is “suspicious.”

    • Hi Dale,

      Yes, but here’s the trouble. If you U turn/turn off (even if not violating any traffic law) the AGWs can – and often, do – regard that as “suspicious” and will go after you. They have the power to do so. That is the key element.

      Similarly: It is your right to not not answer questions; but they have the power to amp up their harassment if you don’t.

  10. Impressive! Not many know the ‘founders’ went to do a few updates to the Articles of Confederation and turned it into a Constitutional circus. Most are completely unaware of the Articles…… just the way the government wants it. The Articles specifically gave the several States sovereignty. Most do not know the so called bill of rights were thrown in to appease the States that would not ratify. If the founders were soooo individual rights / liberty minded it would have been included in the document,,, not amendments. No the US won the revolution battles but lost the war when the English bankers took over with the Constitution. They absolutely knew the federal government would in time eliminate the amendments. They verbally admitted they wanted a STRONG CENTRAL GOVERNMENT.
    One of the first things done was the war on taxes when George Washington sent the military to quash the Whiskey rebellion where many in the rebellion fought with him in the revolt. Then came the first central bank signed into law by George Washington. It is said he said he knew it was unconstitutional but signed it anyway. Then came Adams Alien and Sedition Act which he and hero Lincoln used profusely. Lincoln jailed many journalists that disagreed with his invasion of the CSA.

    Americans have completely ignored our very own gulag at Guantanamo, our undeclared wars abroad, and the restructuring of our police to a stasi even better than East Germany. The police are armed better then many militaries around the world.

    The Federal government are ignoring their constitutional duty to protect the borders, and are in fact importing many groups that have an innate hatred of Americans.

    The DUI checkpoints were from a organization called MAD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) which I believe received Federal money and massive assistance from MSM at the time. They actually ended up firing the founder of MAD. Guess she wasn’t following the agenda they wanted but they gave some idiotic reason.

    Like everything our liberties were exchanged for safety and the majority went for it, hook, line and sinker be it DUI (kills people),,, Drugs (kills people),,, Guns (kills people),,, Auto’s (kills people),,, Wars (keep the homefront safe),,, Global Warming (keeping the earth safe),,, Diversity (make all equal),,, Taxes (pay for keeping you safe and fed),,, you name it, they always had a cause behind it.

    Nothing short of violence can stop it now,,, it’s too far gone. As we speak the Virginia governor is wanting to ban guns outright. If you have ever read the book Enemies, Domestic and Foreign it is a good primer for how they will go about this. I believe the book had it begin in Virginia.

    It’s a shame for sure….. shame on us for allowing it.

    • Ken,

      “founder of MAD. Guess she wasn’t following the agenda they wanted but they gave some idiotic reason.”

      20+ years ago she was working on getting a steering wheel mandated.

      I would check blood alcohol and cholesterol before allowing the car to start.

    • You are correct, very few know of the coup in Pa, Gary North wrote a book about it that you can download. The Convention was to just amend the Articles like you said, but the Delegates got greedy and wanted power so they created a slow growing giant that grew TEETH in the Govt but gums everywhere else. Excellent article and take on it.

      • Thanks, Hugh!

        It is very interesting that so few people know the truth about the Constitution’s origins; instead, they are presented with the blatantly false narrative that “the people” tapped representatives to confect it. In fact, “the people” got gypped. The war fought to liberate them from the King and Parliament and the english ruling class simply swapped those rulers out for native ones – the American merchant/planter aristocracy. Massa Tom was among the few of these who recognized what was going one and said so.

        • The only thing I ever heard about the Articles of Confederation was that “it didn’t work.” Whatever that means. And the whiskey rebellion was presented as a great win for the state and beloved general Washington, even though I’ll bet some of the students in my school (I grew up in Western PA), could trace their family tree back to those rebels.

          • Hey RK,

            “The only thing I ever heard about the Articles of Confederation was that ‘it didn’t work.'”

            Well, it depends in what is meant by “work”. If one wanted a decentralized confederation of sovereign States, none of which had ultimate authority over any other, it worked pretty well.

            If the goal was a centralized power structure that wields ultimate authority, not so much.


            • Probably all that really needed to be done to “fix” the Articles would have been an economic agreement where the member states signed off on a common currency and agreed not to impose tariffs against each other.

              Instead what we got was a counter-revolution by the Federalists that sounded good on paper but started down the road to tyranny practically before the ink had dried.

              The Articles of Confederation are quickly glossed over in the government skools. Most people if they think about it all seem to believe that the Revolution lead directly into the Constitution.

        • Not trying to be pedantic here, but I have to take issue with the idea that “the people” somehow got robbed by the Constitution. Yes, it’s true that the Constitution was favored by the American elite as opposed to the British colonial elite, but that doesn’t mean it was a rip-off.

          First of all, “the people” of the several states RATIFIED the Constitution after a period of intense public debate lasting about nine months. There were no secrets after the ratification debate. Secondly, the Articles of Confederation didn’t work: there was no uniform currency, no uniform trade policy, and you had drunken militiamen like Daniel Shays marching through the streets armed and threatening to kill anyone trying to collect debts and taxes. Thirdly, the Federalists were more than willing to add a Bill of Rights as a compromise to allay Anti-Federalist fears that the constitutional government would repeat the same abuses of the British. Nearly every provision of the Bill of Rights is a specific, direct prohibition against the actions taken by Gen. Gage during the occupation of Boston by the regular British army. No searches without warrants, no suppression of speech or press, no quartering of troops, no confiscation of guns.

          What people tend to forget today is that the Bill of Rights specifically limited the Federal government ONLY, and not the states. The Founders erroneously believed that the state governments would zealously guard the rights of the people. The 14th Amendment “nationalized” the Bill of Rights in 1868 to supposedly correct this defect.

          Unfortunately, it didn’t. Government, both Federal and state, has almost entirely slipped the leash of the Constitution. The reason is not that fallacious notion that the Constitutional Convention concocted a nefarious plot to rob the people; the reason is that the people are idiots and sheep. It has been 245 years since Gen. Gage’s army came across the Atlantic and started kicking in people’s doors with bayonets fixed. Americans today do not remember martial law, so they do not fear it. Beyond that, government has bought off the people with porn, football, legal weed, anal sex, Social Security, welfare, disability, and propaganda that the cops are “heroes” “keeping us safe.” People cheer cops who perform warrantless searches, confiscate guns, and kick in doors. People today do not want the responsibility and the hard work that freedom and independence requires, despite lyrical bullshit about the “land of the free and the home of the brave.”

        • 8 Presidents of the Continental Congress from 1774 to 1781 under the Articles of Confederation, a superior document in every way to the 1st bankruptcy reorganization document Called the “Constitution of the united States”. A Constitutor is one who accepts the debt of another as their own without reservation. The “Constitutors” were the original 13 States. That was and is the sham.

    • Damn !
      You saved me a great reply and I concur with your message. We are too far gone and have nobody to blame but ourselves. We cannot vote ourselves out of this mess. The Black Face we now have in Virginia is little more than the embodiment of what he dressed up to be. If historical mistakes must be rectified, American slavery pales in comparison to the event at Appomattox Ch. House on April 9, 1865. The ruling elite destroyed the consent of the governed, declared in the Magna Carta.

      The current status falls into the category of “There is no right way to do the wrong thing”.
      To understand our dilemma, read “Libido Dominandi” by Dr. E. Michael Jones.

      • Hi Jack,

        I agree that physical resistance is pointless – at least in terms of effecting a change toward more liberty and less tyranny. But that doesn’t mean we can’t resist. Intellectually. And by shrugging. Figure out a way to drop out of the system to the extent feasible, and do so. Reduce your cost of living such that you can live on a very modest income, which will reduce what they can take to very little. Don’t acquire debt – the single greatest link in the chains which bind us.

        And be heterodox. Openly. Question – ridicule. Puncture the balloon of universal agreement that collectivist solutions are good.

        Intellectual progress is being made. The ideas discussed here, for instance, would never have found an audience of tens of thousands of people as recently as 2000. And this is just one of many sites discussing and disseminating these ideas.

        Take a lesson from history. Here’s one:

        In 1915, Lenin was a largely unknown outcast who seemed to be babbling into the wind. Three years later, he was the head of the Soviet colossus.

        Who ever imagine the Soviet colossus would suddenly just collapse 70-something years later? That Orange Man would be president?

        Things can change in remarkable ways – and in the blink of a eye.

        • The orange man wasn’t my first choice during the primary. But became the only choice in the ’16 election. The thought of the Queen of Graft, the Cackling Cow, the Administrator of Arkancide, of whatever you call the The Democrat Disaster being the president is the stuff of nightmares.

          • Amen, Allen –

            And it’s why I will vote for the Orange Man again. Obviously, he has many flaws. But the rage he generates in the minds of the right people really appeals to me. And what he did to Jeb and the whole Chimp fambly has earned my eternal gratitude.

            • All points….exactly! He’s vulgar….he’s rude….he lies…and I love all of it. That he stopped all that legacy bullshit in its tracks…both Bush and Clinton…was hilarious!

              The 2016 election was choosing which door to walk through:

              First door: Man-eating lion inside.

              Second door: Maybe….a man-eating lion inside.

            • I guess my commenting is coming to a close. I can’t post a link to anything without it being rejected. They really are shutting down the internet.

              • It is highly unlikely that “they” would single out you or this forum. Many here, including myself, have posted plenty of politically-incorrect and inflammatory commentary with no problem. It is far more likely that what you are experiencing is due to a WordMess problem rather than “them” shutting down the internet.

                Try posting no more than one link at a time and see how it goes. I’ve had posts here routinely rejected when multiple links were involved due to false positive on spam detection. If the problem persists Eric may need to have his computer guy fine-tune the spam detection.

              • Hi Eight,

                Don’t sweat this – comments being held up – it’s a WP thing. I will approve all of yours as soon asI see anything from you in the queue!

                • eric, I have never been able to post a comment from gritsforbreakfast.com. It’s exactly the same thing that you are using.

                  I often have other things rejected and no matter how many times I try it won’t go through.

                  Of course if, as I suggested, someone would just search for the post and enter it as I type it, no doubt they’d find it and it is a daily thing. I’ve tried it and it always goes to through to the last day posted.

                  But that’s not the half of it. There are many other sites I try to post and it’s no go.

                  The deal is though, you won’t ever see it. It doesn’t go through as it’s always rejected.

                  I know you will let through comments such as when someone isn’t signed in or it screws up and simply applies “anonymous” to whoever it might be.

                  No, they’re saying the internet is being shut down and it is. It’s almost impossible to over-ride Google or any of the other corporate giants.

                  And I like their anonymity too. Is there a physical address you can access and speak to someone? Hell no. That’s one of the problems of the internet.

                  So many people use it to bully others they wouldn’t dare do face to face.

                  It’s the reason the longer I use it the less I temper my thoughts and just tell people they’re POS or whatever it may be. I realize this would ruin you if you did it….and I apologize for being me. Then again, I see myself as being no worse than those who would actively try to silence me.

                  I don’t try to silence them, just call them out when my bullshit meter overflows.

              • 8,

                “guess my commenting is coming to a close. I can’t post a link to anything without it being rejected. They really are shutting down the internet.”

                Of course, they are doing exactly what you’ve been saying for years.

                You would like to think it would take longer…

          • Well, since CA, even w/o the blatant voter fraud, would elect any cretin with a (D) suffix over Jesus Christ Himself, I had the “luxury” of voting my conscience and casting my vote for the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson. And he did increase his popular vote tally by four-fold over his prior record, though, he failed as miserably in gaining ANY electoral votes as his predecessors. Mr. Johnson ought to have focused his efforts where Libertarian sentiment is strong, like his home state of New Mexico, and Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, and Nevada. Sure, the combined tally would still be less than Texas, let alone California, but as we saw in the 2000 election, a third party candidate can be, in effect, either a “king maker”, or become the “king” himself if he’s seen as a mutual benefit to the Replicunts and the Dymmycrats.

            IMO, this is why one of the greatest Americans ever, George Wallace, was shot in May 1972. Certainly he wasn’t going to win the Dummycrat ticket, BUT, there were still enough “Blue Dog” Democrats in the South that, once again frustrated in his effort to win his party’s nomination, he could run as a third-party candidate and not only take much of the South in the Electoral College, he could also swing an otherwise quite winnable state against the favored candidate. Neither party could or would allow that, so, IMO, the PTB sanctioned the hit, and got Arthur Bremer to be their “patsy”. The message was clear: This is a TWO party system which in effect makes it but one coin with two sides, and “three’s a crowd”, so if you actually SUCCEED at going up against the two-party system, then you’re a goner. Hence why, save for protest votes, no one other than a Republican or a Democrat has gotten an Electoral College vote since 1968.

        • “Question – ridicule.”

          Yes….ridicule…..humiliate….make fun of…..laugh at….an AGW everday.

          Every freak’n state “trooper” I always want to ask: Did you actually grow up dreaming of wearing one those insidious campaign hats?

          Humiliate them whenever you can. As long as you’re safe from a viscous beat down.

          • Mocking an AGW hardly makes you “safe” from a beat down at their hands, even though they’ve no LEGAL cause. “Contempt of Cop”, in THEIR eyes, is the most heinous of offenses, punishable as far as they’re willing to inflict injury and commit perjury, even unto death. How “dare” you to “disrespect their ‘Authoriai !”

        • The “Soviet” was written by a gentleman called Marx and Engels called “The Revolt” and had a series of failed revolutions for 1857 to 1907 that failed and landed it’s (((founders))) to include Trotsky (L. Bronstein) in prison. In 1917, the October Revolution succeeded and from that bloody October -1957 was responsible for over 66 million lives. It was funded by the N.M. Rothschild in London and Jacob Schiff or Kuhn, Loeb, & Co. Wall Street who gave Lenin 20 million in Bullion as a start. All wars are Bankers Wars. The fact that you haven’t heard this from Hollywood, book publishers, or the Ivy league proves these institutions are in the hands of the perpetrators.

          • You couldn’t be more correct. The Rothchilds and co. have funded both sides of every war since the Napoleonic war.

  11. Eric,

    Not to toot my own horn, but I’ve probably forgotten more about DUI than 99.44% of lawyers have ever learned.

    I was driving from Detroit to the seminal case (Michigan v. Sitz) checkpoint to protest when it was shut down.

    I’ve even testified as an expert witness for the defense on the proper administration of the Standardized Field Sobriety Tests.

    The dissent in Sitz said, “The imposition that seems diaphanous today may be intolerable tomorrow.”

    As you point out in your article, tomorrow has come and is long gone.

    What was intolerable in the past is embraced today. This is the doctrine of stare decisis.

    Permit me to beat that dead horse again. To be convicted of DUI one does NOT have to be driving NOR have any alcohol in their system.

    The crime is similar to the NAZI blood laws in that suspicion of having illegal blood (your own blood) is proof of guilt.

    The only way to avoid the checkpoints is to avoid driving after the “government approved hours.” The unofficial curfew for adults generally starts one hour before the official curfew for children in your municipality and ends an hour before same. I say this after studying tens of thousands of DUI cases.

    Driving in heavy rains after the government unapproved hour is “generally” safe as well.

    That’s my 5 grams of copper plated zinc Eric.

    I wish you could have included DUI Wolfpacks, but those are a different twist on Medievalism.


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