Donald Trump isn’t a Libertarian – but he is the guy who just rescinded the fatwa imposed by his extremely un-Libertarian predecessor that would have almost tripled the fines imposed on car companies that didn’t “achieve compliance” with federal fuel economy mandatory minimums.
This is no small thing – because of the other fatwa, still in place. The one which decrees a near-doubling of the average mileage new cars will be required to achieve over the course of the next six years.
Orange Man is working on that one.
Regardless, he just saved you a lot of money – and may just have saved the car industry, too.
At least, for the moment.
The fines rescinded were the billy stick used to enforce federal Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) regs. These regs stipulate an arbitrary “fleet average” mileage number every car company’s model lineup must meet.
This arbitrarily decreed number – arbitrary because it’s just “decided” upon by federal bureaucrats, at their whim, based upon what they – in their infinite wisdom – consider to be “achievable,” no matter what it costs – has been steadily rising since the late ‘70s, from around 22 miles-per-gallon to the current 30-something miles-per-gallon.
Over the past 30-something years, cars have become more “efficient” as a result of this gradual ratcheting-up of CAFE requirements. They have also become progressively more expensive with each ratcheting up – since it takes technology to “achieve compliance” while also maintaining the attributes car buyers expect, such as the physical size of the vehicle as well as its power/performance/capability.
It is hard to get a car to average 30-something MPG while also being not small and able to get to 60 MPH in less than 8 seconds (most buyers won’t buy a car that can’t do this).
Or carry a family – as opposed to a single driver and perhaps one passenger. And have the power to pull a trailer.
People do value gas mileage. Just not gas mileage uber alles – as the un-Libertarians in government insists they do.
If they did value it uber alles, the car companies would not need to be forced – by punishing fines – to build such cars. They would respond to . . . the market for such cars.
The problem – from the point-of-view of the un-Libertarians in government – is that there is a market for other cars. Which the government is trying to stifle, via fines that punish the market for daring to express preferences which differ from the demands of the un-Libertarians in government.
The fines are currently set at $5.50 for every 0.1 MPG below the current arbitrarily-decreed “fleet average” of 30-something MPG.
They were about to almost tripled to $14 for the same “crime” – i.e., manufacturing cars that met the requirements of car buyers rather than “achieved compliance” with government gas mileage fatwas.
This is as un-Libertarian as it gets.
It’s also the billy stick that would have given the other fatwa – the near-doubling of the arbitrarily decreed mandatory minimum “fleet average” from 30-something to 50-something MPG that Orange Man is still trying to rescind – skull-crushing power.
To understand why one must first know that there are only two cars on the market that “achieve compliance” with the doubled-down 50-something MPG fatwa. They are compact-sized hybrids like the Toyota Prius Prime and Hyundai Ioniq – both of which just barely “achieve compliance” (they average 54 MPG).
Put another way: Every single non-hybrid car – and all trucks, SUVs and crossovers – currently on the market does not “achieve compliance” with the doubled-down fatwa hurled by the Orange Man’s extremely un-Libertarian predecessor.
Had OM not rescinded the near-tripling of fines to be imposed for failure to “achieve compliance” with the doubled-down MPG fatwa, it would have meant either a massive increase in the cost to buy every non-compliant model still around a couple of years from now amounting to at least several hundred dollars per vehicle and as much as several thousand dollars per vehicle – in the case of vehicles like trucks and SUVs which cannot “achieve compliance” with a 50-something MPG mandatory minimum unless the laws of thermodynamics can be rescinded . . .
Or the wholesale cancellation of every single non-hybrid car currently on the market – because with hundreds or thousands of dollars in fines added to their sticker price, they would simply be too expensive for most people to afford.
Which is exactly what was intended by the first fatwa.
The un-Libertarians in Washington cannot stand it that the hoi polloi – that’s you and I – decline to buy tiny, underpowered cars like the Prius and its ilk and instead choose to buy larger, stronger vehicles that suit our preferences.
It is not enough for these un-Libertarians that “efficient” cars like the Prius and other small, underpowered hybrids are available – for those who prefer them.
They insist we prefer them, too. And if we don’t we are to be persuaded – via punishment applied to the car makers, who in turn punish us with higher cost and fewer choices.
But the Orange Man has just thrown a sabot in their machinery – and that was a very Libertarian thing. He has taken away the billy stick which would have given the other fatwa its skull-crushing power.
Even if he doesn’t succeed in rescinding the 50-something MPG fatwa, he has already managed to emasculate it.
The un-Libertarians can decree that new cars must average 50-something MPG. But without the tripling of fines for those that don’t “achieve compliance,” it will still be feasible for the car industry to continue building such cars.
Which means they will still be available for us to buy – at prices we can still afford.
The next one may matter most of all.
Got a question about cars – or anything else? Click on the “ask Eric” link and send ’em in!
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I’ve been enjoying your perspective.
I’d just add that Chris Rock has some interesting things to say about men/women and love.
“Fellas, when you wake up in the morning, you should look yourself in the mirror and say, “Fuck you! Fuck your hopes, fuck your dreams, fuck your plans … fuck everything you thought this life was going to bring to you. Now let’s go out there and try to make this bitch happy.””
“If you haven’t contemplated murder, you ain’t been in love. If you haven’t seriously thought about killing a motherfucker, you ain’t been in love.”
I’ve known serious love and loss. I’ve been ready to kill a motherfucker in the name of it (figuratively). But I have the flaws. Not a Barbie doll. Got a bit of a distorted bod, as in nunz’s reference.. it functions well, but men are visual creatures..
Guys, those “perfect” girls from your generation are already gone. Either by men or time. What is left are high minded chicks that learned early not to mix and mingle with the dummies, and the dirty ol’ slags.
According to you guys, I’m past my prime.. therefore, useless to you. Discarded.
I waited too long. Like eric says. I waited for someone to match my brain. I’m learning that he doesn’t exist. And if he does, he is only going to see my superficial flaws, because that’s what he’s been conditioned to see. Because he thinks he deserves porn Barbie with an equal heart-soul-mind combo. At age 50+.
My teeth ache.
Forgot to sign in.. above is 🐝.
The poster formally known as anon.
Formerly.. got dang autocorrect
Men look at women differently than women look at men. This is natural – and so inevitable. Women are attracted to men who are smart and successful; who can provide and protect. Who are capable of being good fathers as well as husbands. Men are attracted to youth and good looks because these correlate with fertility and good genetics. It is hardwired. Most men want someone soft and feminine to counter their rough traits; not a “partner” who happens to have different sexual equipment.
Men have male friends for all the other things.
A woman can give a man the respite he needs; take care of him as he takes care of her – each in their very different ways.
But feminist dogma has imparted the toxic nonsense than men and women are the same and that women can and should ignore nature/biology while men are vicious assholes for hewing to their nature.
I’m a middle-aged guy but now that I am single and can have much younger women, why on earth would I choose a woman my age who is either menopausal or soon will be – and is biologically in rapid decline?
Hard deck fact: A man who has good genes and takes care of himself can have those much younger women and so he will have them. No matter how much a woman takes care of herself, as she approaches 40, it’s over for her biologically.
A man who marries a woman while she is young and pretty and has kids with her will usually stick with her as she (and he) age. But if a man is back to choosing, he’s not going to going to start out with the 40-plus woman. Unless he has no choice.
eric, that’s not all of it by any means. For the most part, women desire older(not necessarily old)men. Older men are better mannered and (I hope, I hope I hope she’s thinking)have a lot more money.
When I was in Mexico I had an extremely good looking 18 year old who was really smart, not just academically but in ways of life. She was hot to come back with me. I have no idea what she envisioned happening but I know what the 22 year old envisioned. Going to the ranch and living well and probably would have been a decent mate except for the language barrier and she already had one child and was headed in that direction of getting fat, not yet then but not far away. Of course that’s a different culture where people in general have more respect for each other than in this country.
I did everything I could to get that 18 year old and her family into this country and turned her on to LULAC which eventually did pay off for them. Last I heard from her, her parents and stunningly good looking younger sister were in the US. Both those girls wanted to go on a fishing trip with me and damned if it wasn’t tempting. Her parents were a decade younger than I but it made no difference.
OTOH, I’m not totally unattractive and look pretty nice when I’m out in public. The only young women in this country I’m visible to is a young woman trying to sell me something.
And that makes two of us that aren’t attracted to each other since I rarely see a girl I’d consider having a serious relationship with since they live in some world I don’t like and don’t understand. Same goes for them I’m sure.
But you’re right about being your age and not wanting somebody about to go through the roughest physical and psychological time of her life. I just had an old bony cow walk by the window. She’s not ill that I can see, just well past her prime which was never that good. She’s not far from the cutter and canner stage.
I’ve seen women in their 40’s who are single, almost everyone of the divorced. When they are looking for a mate, they have a litany of what definitely will not work. The man must be christian through and through(I doubt those women are that religious)and makes no bones about her children being the most important thing in her life and that isn’t going to change. Sounds great for a new partner. A late 40’s woman that’s spoiled, is generally a good 60-80 lbs overweight and has no muscle but plenty opinionated about everything…….everything.
Not a doubt in her mind about being correct about everything. The reason I know this is because I was looking for a email I quit getting and there was this single thing in there with my actual email address so I opened it to see how it worked. That pretty much summed up the women in my part of the world and most likely most places in the US. I wasn’t looking for another mate but boy, was that site and eye-opener. I don’t see how any of these women expect to find a man near their age. Of course I wasn’t near their age but I’d bet I could lie and say I was wealthy and a radical christian and have her wrapped around my finger in a heartbeat until we didn’t date the expensive life and I was ok with being told to sit on it whenever something came up with her kids.
****”The man must be christian through and through”******
LOL!- I’d love to see such a woman actually meet such a Christian man….when he informs her that he can not see her, because Christ said that marrying the divorced is tantamount to committing adultery…….
“Don’t forget that Ole Ronnie got SHOT in 1981.”
That was an interesting day. I was finishing up a flight lesson, getting ready to land at an Air Force base in Florida when we got put in the penalty box.
For 45 minutes we circled and I got to see all kinds of planes literally come out of the ground and take to the skies.
After landing, we were number 2 to get parked. The guy with the flashlights parking the plane in front of me backed into a C 130 prop. As his shoulder, arm, flashlight, and part of his noggin went up in the air, he kept backing up before he fell.
I wonder how many other people died that day.
Heres how much of that big beautiful wall has been constructed – not one mile. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-has-not-built-a-single-mile-of-new-border-fence-after-30-months-in-office
In spite of voting for Gary Johnson in 2016, I’m fairly satisfied with the “Orange” man’s performance thus far.
DJT is more in line with what the Founders intended for POTUS…an EXECUTIVE, e.g. a MANAGER, whom runs the Government and ENFORCES the laws and prosecutes the National Security interests of the Country in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. That’s why all the political hacks decry him, he puts them to absolute SHAME.
Of course, I could do without his sucking up to the cops, telling them to gratuitously inflict injury on an arrested man, presumably cuffed, as he’s placed into the back of the “squid” car, and he insists on continuing the insane “War on Drugs”, which is really a war on the freedoms of the American people. Still, overall, he’s done the best that we could get out of the whole sordid mess.
Whom ELSE would you have had in charge? The Witch? Be thankful at least we don’t derisively give the Presidential aircraft the call sign “Broomstick One!”. Or “Mittens”? He might be a fellow Latter-Day Saint, but that phony smile of his reminds me of the 48th Rule of Acquisition (from Star Trek)..”the WIDER the smile…the SHARPER the knife!”
I agree, Doug –
Some fault the Orange Man for not doing all or even most of the things he said he would during the campaign. But it’s
what he hasn’t done that cheers me – such as amen or acquiesce to the PC pieties of the now out-of-the-closet Socialist Democrat Party (not the reverse) while also enraging its leading luminaries.
God bless him for that.
Personally, Eric, I don’t see how there’s any practical difference between heavy-handed socialism and heavy-handed fascism. When the goons break down your door or put a bullet in your head in the street, or send you to prison for 20 years for some paperwork technicality, or for “resisting” theior brutality, does it really matter which particular flavor of violent coercive authoritarian-collectivism allowed it?
Knowing that your car is subject to one less of several hundred mandates already affecting it- and that that one that is rescinded is effectively cancelled-out by another one which OM enacted anyway….is scant solace for continued assault upon our our liberties.
Sure, we would expect statists to “get it”, because they are all collectivists whose only differences are the particular sides they take on the issues which they desire to enforce on everyone- but WE of all people should ‘get it’.
Uh…that should be “…..we would NOT expect statists to “get it”….”
An observation about the topic at hand (not, as most here do, rant about everything else) is this. My local horrible Democrat newspaper had a column recently about one of their “editorial board” members and his electric car experience. Something called an eGolf, I guess some kind of battery operated VW Golf. So not an expensive Tesla.
His entire back patting, virtue signaling column about how wonderful he is by driving this contraption was actually a pathetic account of how, by merely driving from near downtown and back to the airport to pick up a friend, he nearly ran out of juice. Seems that the juice indicator on his eGolf isn’t very good. He barely made it back after shutting down his A/C (in horrific summer heat), radio and other non essential components. This was a mere 30 mile round trip. In Texas, mind you.
So if Trump’s actions here have some merit, it will be to end this kind of mandatory insanity. If commie editorial writers want to use ox carts or souped up tin cans, so be it. Just don’t force the rest of us to use these 19th century vehicles. (Of course the electricity Mr. Editorial Board used in his toy car doesn’t magically appear at the end of his plug, now does it? Another story…)
I am supposed to be getting an eGolf to test drive soon. The thing costs about $32k to start – about $10k more than the non “e” Golf – and has a best-case range of about 115 miles. It is as you say… insane. Functional ad economical madness – backwardness presented as progress by virtue signaling useful idiots.
That’s terrible range. I’ve been watching old episodes of Wheeler Dealers. They had an electric conversion of a Maserati Bi-Turbo that they refreshed with new electrics and batteries. The final result was a vehicle that could travel about 100 miles per charge. I would expect with all the teutonic engineering prowess in Wolfsburg they’d do better than a bodge mechanic on a TV show using tech from 5 years ago.
Of course there’s that whole pesky physics thing…
The whole thing sometimes just paralyzes my capacity to even deal with it. By any sane metric, electric cars make no sense. They do not deliver lower cost, more ease of use. They increase cost – and multiply hassles. For what? The answer seems to be: Because they are electric! And electric is “cool.”
Which, to me, is like arguing that jet aircraft be replaced by piston-driven prop planes – because props are “cool”!
Billions are being spent on cars that will impose billions in new costs. How is the average person supposed to afford a $40,000 electric car?
“How is the average person supposed to afford a $40,000 electric car? ”
We know what the answer is. They aren’t supposed to. But it won’t be $40K. Tesla Motors recently dropped a number of base models from their line up. They said to free up production capacity which we know is a lie but it is to get rid of the lower margin units. If automakers had to make their margins from EVs instead of using them as loss leaders and for government credit value the prices would soar.
They shift the expense of owning a vehicle away from the oil companies to the banks and financial markets. Anything that shifts more money to the banks is always a good thing right?
“Which, to me, is like arguing that jet aircraft be replaced by piston-driven prop planes – because props are “cool”!”
One of my dearest friends who drives an airbus often says, “propellers are for boats.”
But last week, when his son passed his check ride for Single Engine Land, (prop powered) planes were “cool.”
And last year when his son got his private rating, dad, with close to 4 years aloft, admitted that planes without engines are “really cool!”
Since you have winter where you are at, and are no doubt familiar with the salimander type heaters, I’d suggest that while the weather is still warm, you make way to an airport to your west.
Find yourself a Cessna 152 (or even better Cessna 150) and compare it to a Tesla.
I’d love to be able to finance you to rent a salamander power plane, but I couldn’t afford to pay the gas bill to even get it up to temperature. People think very highly of their kerosene these days.
Seriously Eric, planes in general are cool. Prop planes are almost as cool as gliders like the space shuttle or a Schweitzer 2-22.
Jet planes are more along the lines of the anti Navy motto. They are not just an adventure, they are a job to fly.
If you’re really intent on the notion that kerosene guzzling planes are the only way to have fun aloft, you might want to check out the Long-EZ.
A friend of mine has one and we take a cassette of the Top Gun soundtrack when we feel the need for speed.
I like to hone my flying skills much the way you do when you go to a Bondurant class
I do thise things in a glider.
Personally, I love riding in little prop planes- IMO, the only way to fly- it’s ‘real’. You feel the bumps; see the scenery.
I’d LOVE to ride in an open-cockpit plane….that would be the ultimate!
I am actually with you on this – recreationally! I have sick fantasies of possessing an Me109 – with the real Daimler engine – and buzzing my friends’ houses up here in the Woods!
We’re seeing random blackouts around the country as a heat wave pushes east.
I have yet to have anybody answer this question satisfactorily:
There are roughly 270 million registered vehicles in the US. If you replaced roughly a third of them with EVs, what’s going to happen to the rickety electric grid, that is already overloaded and running at max capacity, when you have 100 million EVs being plugged in every day?
Ha! AF, people such as myself, Scotty Kilmer; even my 94 year-old mother have been asking that very question for years now- with no one ever proffering a suitable answer. Maybe….NOW, people will at least start to wake up to the reality that EVs are completely untenable.
Give ’em another 25 years, and maybe they’ll even figure out that they really don’t eliminate emissions…they just relocate their exhaust.
It’s worse than that. Because “they” decided that baseload power plants are no longer necessary in a world of subsidized intermittent production, they’re taking capacity offline at an alarming rate.
Oh sure, they say that solar is a good fit for running air conditioning, until you see that the daily peak temperature lags the daily peak solar radiation by about 4 hours. So the answer is to come up with storage. Except that storage, even a few hours worth, throws the whole economics of renewables out the window. And of course pushing everyone into high density ̶f̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶l̶o̶t̶s̶ cities compounds the heat island effect, making people even more dependent on air conditioning, which means even greater demand on the power grid -and of course that intermittent power requires a lot of open land, which is far away from the city, which means longer cables, which are impacted by high heat.
How any of this works at all is a minor miracle. When the natural gas drillers start to go through a bankruptcy cycle and shut down wells to get the price up, we’ll see the real result of this madness.
Hi RK, I worked 42 years for the local electric utility and am still amazed at the stupidity of the average moron. The nuke plant just shut down this year, and the older oil and gas fired plants were shut down a few years ago; there’s still one 800 MW gas fired plant running but that’s all for this area, a net loss of 1300 MW of base load. I think most of the power is imported from Canada/HydroQuebec now but whenever there’s a proposal for a new transmission line or gas pipeline to alleviate the power crunch all the nimbys turn out in full force.
I’d keep a list of all the protesters and make sure they get shut off first when they need to shed load. It’s lucky this heat wave is mostly over the weekend or they would already be calling for people to curtail their power use. Good luck with charging a bunch of EV’s under those conditions – you can’t fix stupid.
“what’s going to happen to the rickety electric grid, that is already overloaded and running at max capacity, when you have 100 million EVs being plugged in every day?”
Rationing. This is known. The powers that be aren’t that stupid. They want to ration energy. They want energy to be scarce and expensive.
Due to ERCOT, most of Texas with the exception of most of the panhandle falls under the ERCOT rules which state Texas doesn’t have a link to the national grid.
We have so much extra power, mainly from wind generation(and it’s howling today), that some producers sell their off-peak power for -$8/MWH. But, due to subsidy, which isn’t needed since there’s one wind generation company in the state that doesn’t have subsidy, wind mills and parts are being hauled every day along certain routes, one of which I live near and have to truck on so I see them every day, generally at least 3 trucks at a time.
Sweetwater, Texas has a recycle facility that grinds up old blades and sells the end product to other companies that make all sorts of things with it. This gives the company that owns the windmills a “green” rating and saves them a great deal of money. Not one damned thing can you do in this country govt. isn’t trying to control.
I look for a drone to catch us soon when we’re out in the pasture and have a nature call. Get a letter in the mail warning next time, there’ll be a fine for doing your bidness in the pasture. 3 times and your land will be confiscated.
Brent P wrote:
“Rationing. This is known. The powers that be aren’t that stupid. They want to ration energy. They want energy to be scarce and expensive.”
Of course. This is deliberate in the Age of Shoddy and anti-appliances. I imagine that it must drive the Eco-Malthusians nuts when they realize that, in spite of all the hurdles and technological road blocks they threw up of the last 50 years, that the market and engineering have still be able to produce ICE cars that virtually emission free while eye popping performance.
So they, in their eternal quest to have all of mankind grubbing about in mudhuts and grass skirts and dying at 30, have turned their attention to hobbling and gimping everything else in our lives: so that now we have toilets that don’t flush, lights that don’t light, washers that don’t wash, dishwashers that don’t clean, water heaters that don’t heat and so on.
Meantime, they are looking to drive stake through the heart of ICE cars with this EV nonsense, and to kill the very car industry by flooding it with “woke” executives that care more about promoting weirdosexualism and diversity than actually making cars people will like and drive and buy.
That is the globalist future of humanity: a polyglot mob of hapless, hopeless humanity, all consuming their way to government approved happiness on an eternal rat wheel of debt.
Gah, pardon the atrocious grammar in that post.
That’s what I get for trying to write ten things at once.
AF, I thought you were doing an impression of me! 😉
Easy. 10,000 SMR nuclear power plants with short-haul cabling…Then there is still the stupidity of battery or hydrogen (volatility much?) electrics. With nuclear power it is easy and less costly to create hydrocarbons…unlimited cheap gasoline diesel and JetA.
What do you do with the inevitable nuclear waste? You know that nuclear waste lasts basically forever, right? I know it’s not TECHNICALLY forever, but you’re talking about hundreds of even thousands of years, if not longer than that. In light of that, it might as WELL be for forever.
There’s the economics of nuclear power. NO sane electric utility would build a nuke without a gov’t subsidy. Their cost is in the billions of dollars, ok? I think it costs a minimum of 8 BILLION to build a nuke plant today. It also takes decades to build a nuke plant. Compare that to a natural gas plant, which can be built for a billion or so and built a lot faster.
Besides, nuclear plants are unreliable anyway. I grew up fairly close to the Oyster Creek nuclear power plant in NJ. That sucker was ALWAYS off line! Every time I turned around, OC was shut down for this; it was shut down for that. I wondered to myself: does that sucker EVER do what it was designed and built to do-gasp-make electricity? Oh, and here’s the best part about Oyster Creek and 23 other nuclear reactors in the US: they’re the same design as the Fukushima reactors, the GE Mk I! To put it another way, OC’s old owner, FirsEnergy, SOLD the plant to another operator…
Well, that’s all true if you use 80 year old nuclear pile technology or 60 year old GE reactor plants. If you look into Thorium reactors, or modular pebble bed reactors, or the new liquid salt technology which consumes nuclear by products so that nothing long term hot comes out and meltdown is impossible, that story no longer holds. Of course, nuclear research, the only hope for humanity’s future is stunted and hobbled i this country by the same totalitarian communist government which says the second amendment isn’t the law and driving is somehow a privilege.
“would have almost tripled the fines imposed on car companies”
You mean fines imposed on car buyers since car companies don’t have any money until they get it from buying customers.
Thanks to governemnt schools and CIA Mockingbird television/hollywood programming, most Americans are just mentally ill parasitic retards. Trump will ultimately fail and the USA will become a permanent shithole like Detriot when the Democrat Terrorist Organization gets absolute control of FedGov in 2020. The DTO terrorist gang will give amnesty to 20M illegal low IQ monkeys and will obtain a permanent voting majority.
But yeah…Good on Trump for this minor thing!
EXACTLY, CharMan [“Don’t squeeze the CharMan!”]
AND….he has done more damage to our 2nd-Amendment rights than ANY Democrat would be able to do…….
Don’t give up until the game is lost. It isn’t . . . yet.
Thanks for this!…And thank Glenmorangie nectar d’or.
eric, here’s good news and it’s because of Trump, not despite him. Better take a gander at this. It’s the best news I’ve heard in a long time.
Amazing that ORANGEMAN has gotten so much done considering the opposition that he is getting from all sides, and the utter lack of help from ANY of the traitors on what is supposed to be his side of the aisle. No wall ? He can’t build it himself, although he should just order the Army to build it. Maybe that will change after the election, when he wipes the floor with whatever communist runs against him.
The wall is utterly retarded anyway. As long as we keep offering illegals sanctuary and freebies, they will come, whether it be by air, sea, or land. The wall is nothing more than another crony-capitalist scheme to funnel billions to favored corps.
If they did nothing else but enforce the laws already on the books, there would be no need for a wall.
Number one action should be to round up all of the POLITICIANS, such as Andrew Cuomo, who defy federal immigration law, and remove them from office and charge them with crimes, such as malfeasance and treason.
But in reality, Trump nor anyone else will do ANYTHING (Other than some PR stunts) to stop the invasion, because TPTB want the invaders, to make up for our below-replacement birthrate; to justify more surveillance and control of US; and to polish-off what little remains of traditional American society, and the values of freedom and independence European-American Christians have long held.
Remember when Cubans used to float over here on rafts?
Yes. The real problem isn’t immigration. It is entitlement. And elections. The Left favors open borders because it knows that a large percentage of the people coming will become clients – of the government and thus of the Democrat Party. They aren’t bad people; many of them really do just want a batter life. The problem is that many of them come from socialist countries where that better life is the result of government benefits and they expect more and better here.
This is another one of those “Lenin” situations. By which I mean that while in principle I favor free movement it is suicidally idiotic to do nothing about a literal flood of people from socialist countries looking for more socialism here.
The best option would be to end socialism – no “free” health care, education, EBT an so on. End those things and my bet is the flood of people from socialist countries would dry to a small trickle – and those still coming would be the sort we want; i.e., people trying to get away from socialism. Who loathe the AOCs of this country.
But, that isn’t going to happen in the foreseeable future. Therefore, steps must be taken to staunch the human tsunami of socialism-seekers who will demographically and then electorally change this country into Venezuela.
Hence Orange Man.
He has not built the wall, but he has empowered a resistance to the human tsunami of socialism from Central and South America by openly defending the right of a country to defend its borders and by puncturing the demagogic balloon of “refugees” and “migrants.”
“The real problem isn’t immigration. It is entitlement.”
I keep asking open borders now libertarians how does a flood of people under the present system of welfare and socialized government services result in more liberty? I ask them to outline the path. They play the racism card, respond with insults, etc.
Opening the borders and then saying that means we have liberty like printing money and then saying the economy is good because the stock market went up.
Eliminating entitlements would likely slow immigration, but only from a tsunami to a slow-motion flood. America would still be the land of milk and honey for tens of millions who would bring their own failed cultures to be imposed on us.
We need to come up with more than just economics to defend ourselves and our borders.
Agreed – no question.
For openers: If the current practice of forcing every single American citizen to present ID and be subject to searches of their persons effects as a matter of routine at airports and sports venues, etc. – then clearly every single person crossing into the U.S. who isn’t even a citizen must be subjected to the same treatment.
If not – as now – then American citizens ought to flood the streets and demand an end to the TSA and “Homeland” Security since the very idea of “security” in a country with an unsecured border is ludicrous on the face of it.
Ross, other countries who don’t want to be invaded and which offer no entitlements, have no problem keeping invaders out with very little effort- They simply enforce their laws and subject illegal immigrants to immediate arrest; confiscation of assets, and deportation. None of this BS about not being able to ask if they’re citizens and all such crap that we do here to accommodate them.
Try going even to Mexico illegally… Even legally there, you are subject to many restrictions, and can be kicked out at any time for any reason.
Yet we, here in our own country, are subject to more scrutiny and abuse than illegals. It’s this way because that is the way TPTB want it to be. If they wanted to stop the invasion, they could do so tomorrow, without impacting us.
But they want and need those invaders, because slavemasters can not function without slaves.
If I were advising Orange Man, I would urge him to refer to illegal aliens – not “migrants.” This is crucial. Language ultimately determines everything.
Come on, man! Correct terminology is hate speech now, get with it.
My Spider Sense is tingling; I think we may be approaching something . . . big.
I wonder if these twits read Orwell? If they do, they’re undoubtedly too stupid to realize they’re the people he was talking about.
‘Zactly, Eric! When one says “migrant”, it is already a given that they are doing nothing wrong, and that one has a benevolent attitude toward them.
I think ‘invader’ is the proper word; or maybe, more appropriately, seeing as how they are accommodated these days: “Beneficiaries” 😀
That IS the precise word, “invaders”.
That is exactly what this is, a Fifth Generation warfare invasion, using not tanks or bombers or artillery, but sheer numbers coupled with misery, designed to disarm and disable a defense because of damnable pity and kindness that can kill.
But the objective is the same: hold territory and supplant the existing population.
Right on, AF! The thing is, too- much like a real military, where the troops are just peons and stooges, so too is it with the invaders, who are enticed to come here, and able to do so by our real enemies: Those in DC, NY; CA……
And I’m sorry to say, but if Trump is referring to them as ‘migrants’ [I didn’t know this- as I don’t watch TV or listen to radio, etc.] then it PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is in fact not what many claim that he is (Which should be obvious anyway, by way of his doing NOTHING about the ongoing invasion. He talks about it…but does nothing. In fact, he does less than nothing, as he has let more in than anyone before him).
He’s not better than Hitlery; he is the same as Hitlery. Hitlery probablky could not have gotten away with as much, because there would have been strong opposition, where now there is none, because the evil deeds are coming from one of their own, so they magically are not as evil as when perpetrated by a Dumbocrap.
Would you have supported the Whites – Kornilov’s Army – against the Bolsheviks? I would have.
I believe we are faced with a similar hard choice.
Trump is valuable, for several reasons. One of them is he has given heart to opposition. By openly not apologizing for every “offense” taken by The Aggrieved (as any other GOP elephant would have done) he has shown it is possible to resist to millions who were ready to give up. The value of this is incalculable.
And he has done more good than harm; certainly more good than Hillary would have not done.
Yes, he lobbed bombs at Syria. But he didn’t invade it. She would have.
He talked with the odd little man in Korea; no regimes changed.
But the take-home thing is he has catalyzed an opposition to what seemed to be a certain socialist juggernaut – and may still be.
But there is a chance it might be diverted – and that would never have been possible without him.
A Quinn Martin production…
Darn! I thought it was gonna be Barnaby Jones! (Ya know, the show where you can alternately kill someone by whacking them in the back of the head with the handle of a revolver- or just knock them out for the exact length of time necessary to allow you to do with them what ya need to do….)
Nunz, I thought “The Invaders” was more apropos to the matter at hand.
An underappreciated and mostly forgotten show today, it was quite well done. One of my favorites from that time period, and currently showing on MeTV network. There are full episodes on youtube as well.
Maybe we should be checking those border crashers for crooked pinkies… 😉
Ross & Eric: Entitlement is the issue indeed. I say: no welfare no free medical, housing they must go to work like immigrants of old (our GG’parents, G’parents, and those before, who came over here from Europe, Canada and went right to work, maybe got help at church missions back then, nothing more. Trump needs to re-instate Glass-Steagall, get us out of the UN (kick ’em outa this country), shut down mosques (their base camps) and deport Muslims before they turn this country into a third world like the E.U. is now. Trump has not controlled the borders, not consistant in making us great again.
Laura, what do you mean work? It’s a lot of work making more citizens to be on the dole.
They must work instead of drawing any welfare this means invaders and everyone else. I didn’t say put them on the dole. If gov. did that they wouldn’t come here seeking all kinds welfare.
Rescinding the dole – all forms – to non-citizens is absolutely key to staunching the human tsunami. It is also a very Libertarian position to take. People are welcome – provided they support themselves and do not expect to be supported by others. That includes their kids and grandmas, too.
It also ought to go for citizens.
No one has a right to anything except liberty.
eric, I have Mexican friends who are outraged people can come from Mexico and get everything they need while the rest of us have to work for it.
They can go to Mexico…..if they can stand to be held up by the border guards. Mexicans do not like US citizens who come from a Mexican background. It’s a weird thing but true.
At least they still have this thing about not violating women so if they go to Mexico, the women carry all the money and the men can give up the small amount they have. I get this right from the horses mouth so to speak.
Some of those immigrants- especially many Mexicans, Pork Chops(Portuguese), etc. are hard-working people with good traditional values like our European forebears.
Unfortunately though, the D’s & R’s seem intent on mainly enticing the Neanderthals from places like Somalia and El Salvador, etc. who just come here for the goodies, and who live the same way they lived in their former locales, which is largely why their former locales are such hell-holes.
Two kinds of people I can’t endure:
Those who love all invaders.
Those who make no distinction between the legit good immigrants [WSho are usually the ones who come here via the legal process) and the Neanderthals; and just hate all immigrants- lumping them all together.
Like most things in life, many people see everything as a clear-cut A or Z….but rarely the H or L that it really is if one understands the actual facts, rather than just formulating their opinions from the spectacles which are proffered by the media and politicians.
N, hate has nothing to do with it. As a question of sound public policy, of cultural value, do we need any more immigrants?
I personally don’t see it. At the high end they are being brought to keep American professionals cheap and not upwardly mobile- pulling up the ladder of opportunity so to speak. At the low end they are enabling our low end/left side of bell curve folks to opt out of trying to make a living by keeping low end wages well below subsistence/cost of living.
I don’t see the need of any more- we could allow TEMPORARY asylum and special cases immigration, perhaps limited to 1000/state/year. Just like every sensible country.
It makes far more sense to rebuild a broadly prosperous country with a cohesive and robust culture and export charity or mercenary assistance as private individuals. And I most certainly mean mercenary- private volunteers going off to fight communism and tyranny is a good thing. We could even use some of it.
” People are welcome – provided they support themselves and do not expect to be supported by others.”
I totally disagree.
Your argument looks solely at the immediately obvious economic costs, not even the longer term ones. Of far greater importance is the cultural. Darwins Finches showed us that Environment drives evolution drives biology drives behavior drives culture then in humans drives institutions drives economics.
There’s a reason the world wants into the west: White men make open, high trust, low time value societies, That Work.
Screwing it up at the top end won’t be fixed by farting around at thew bottom.
What ever happened to Trump’s campaign rhetoric about de-funding US participation in the UN? A truly good idea…which, of course he abandoned once elected. [Ditto withdrawal from NATO- now we’re participating more than ever! ]
Trump has defunded at least one UN agency-
the ACLU says he has ‘attacked’ five areas of the UN and cries about it.
Judge for yourself.
The solution to all of this is real immigration reform. We need a permanent ban on new citizenship applications, probably a strict voter ID law and independent monitoring of elections. I am plenty okay with people coming in to work and I think that individual applications for green cards or other visas are okay. What I would also ban, however, is H1B visas as a door to permanent residency or full citizenship. I would end all corporate sponsorship of immigrant labor without certification from a US Citizen. What also needs to happen is an amnesty or assignment of permanent residency for those in the shadows. Come and get your green card so that you can pay taxes into the system. Having 20 million people evading taxes and using the limited but expensive benefits is no way to run a country. It’s time to overturn this whole system. I have likened legal immigration system as the equivalent of posting a speed limit of 25 mph on an interstate highway with stop signs every 1/4 mile, while illegal immigrants from specialized countries like Mexico, India and China get preferential treatment through investor visas and straight path illegal and chain migration. It is wrong adn corrupt. I would say that there are approximately 100,000 people who need to get green cards who are current technically illegal, but brought here as children. These people need to be taken care of first. Before anyone. Let the migrants stay in the air conditioned camps for a little while while legitimate people get fully legalized.
“We need a permanent ban”
Wow Swampy, I never thought of that.
Just pass another law and that will fix everything.
Do you think we’ll need another temporary tax to fund that permanent ban?
Will we require another government agency to enforce the permanent ban? How about an agency to issue waivers? Will the current alphabet agencies be able to handle this new law of yours?
Has anyone ever tried to permanently ban something before?
Would your permanent ban include migrant free zones?
If, on the off chance, a violator is discovered, will summary execution be sufficient? Or will organ harvesting be used to further the (currently) nonexistent Transplant Tourism trade in the Homeland?
It’s really rather simple if we want to do it, and no need to be vicious or nasty. Simply use human nature, if an illegal is found here, he can be indentured to work of the cost of his return trip home at minimum wage. When he earns the trip home and the room and board (all the while paying American taxes on his wages), he gets escorted to the airport and put on a plane. The incentive comes in allowing the employer to receive that minimum wage labor as a bounty for reporting the illegal immigrant. The employer wins, and gets rewarded for reporting the illegal immigrant. The invader gets humane treatment, food, housing, etc and can buy out his own ticket home if he doesn’t want to be indentured for several months, and the long abused American citizens get to not pay for the whole mess.
So no, summary execution would be barbaric and disproportionate.
I don’t even see the need for a new law, just a policy requiring this indenture, restitution and expulsion for the crime of invading our home.
I agree with this view. If Orange Man can win a second term and if he does it in a Reagan-Mondale landslide (possible) he might just save the country – or at least, buy it another 20 years.
I’ll take that.
I think that is a little optimistic. But, if he gets reelected, we get another 4 years before the shit hits the fan.
What I think is that the elections at this point should be cancelled. I never thought I would say that, but the real possibility of Americans committing electoracide (new word, suicide by election) is very real.
Well, it was either Lenin or Khrushchev (can’t remember which) that bragged that they’d hang the capitalists with the very rope that they’d bought from them.
“I should just get around to doing the ‘snip, snip’ thing…”
This is for you!
Note the lyrics underneath.
Haha….4 more years- be it Trump or whomever, and we will not have any guns when the SHTF.
@Nutzio- You sound delusional. Yeah, he should not have backed the bump-stop ban, but honestly, do you own one of them ? Ever seen one of them ? I have not. And I own a scary black rifle. Allegedly. Oh, wait ! I sold it a long time ago. Before I joined the democrats. Yeah, that’s right. But actually taking away YOUR guns ? Like I said…delusional.
Little by little; piece by piece. First supressors; then bumpstocks; then “assault rifles”….get the pitcher[sic]?
No, I don’t own a bump stock- but so what?
The bump stock ban is the leasst of it.
What about appointing a gun-grabber as head of the ATF?
What about “Just confiscate the guns and worry about due-process later!”?
What about reclassifying ‘pistol’ so as to make anything good an SBR and or prohibit foregrips?
What about Kavanaugh and the other gun-hating pricks he has appointed to various positions?
I could go on, but you get the idea….
THIS is precisely what I have been referring to when I say that someone like Trump can get away with what no librul could. If Killary were in there and tried the same, there would be a mass outcry if she did those same things….but because Trump speaks the right words, his anti-gun actions are barely mentioned, and few complain, except for maybe 10% of the hardcore gun community and those of us who ‘get it’ and know where this is going, and who love liberty.
If I had to guess, Nat, I’d imagine that you live in a non-free state, like CA or NY, etc. where your state already so limits any gun rights, that you are used to such limitations, and therefore don’t see what the Feds are doing as much of a threat, since your own state may already be far worse. But for those of us who have sought out a little freedom- of which the 2nd amendment is pivotal- what Trump is doing is a major step backward, and is no different than what any D would have done.
@Nunzero- “what Trump is doing is a major step backward, and is no different than what any D would have done.”
Listen to what Trump says about guns, then listen to what Hitlery said or what Swallowell says. or Hickenlooper, or Feind-stein, or…on and on. My friend, we are on the same side on this issue, but I’m afraid that you are acting “paranoid”- and you are aiming at the wrong person.
Ummmm…..maybe you should pay attention to what Trump does rather than what he says. Talk is cheap.
“Lock her up!”
“Let’s get out of NATO”
“I’ll rescind Obamacare on my first day”
“Let’s look into what really happened on 9-11″
Hey RFK Jr. let’s investigate vaccines!”
“No more regime changes!”
“We’ll secure our borders”
“We’ll make Mexico pay for the wall”
It’s a SHOW!
There is one political class with two branches. One branch advocates radical leftism to appeal to one segment of the population; one branch advocates more traditional rightism.
No matter which side is in, they meet somewhere in the middle- which is the real agenda- and the exact same things get done, ragardless of who is in.
It’s Hegelian Dialectics.
The only difference between the two sides are the words they use and the people they appeal to.
Who cares what Trump SAYS about guns, when he stomps all over the 2nd and appoints gun-grabbers to key positions? -Just as he spoke of peace while surrounding himself with generals and Neocons!
Do you believe “The check’s in the mail” too?
“But actually taking away YOUR guns ? Like I said…delusional.”
While Nunz may be a nut job (you’re welcome Nunzio), as far as the confiscation of firearms goes, he is on the salient side.
Im pretty sure that he has mentioned the executive’s stated position of “Take the guns”.
The black robes don’t have much of a problem with voting in favor of the compelling government interest rising above individual rights.
Red Flag laws are on the books in many states as well as being proposed on a national level.
Where do you come up with the notion that Nunzio is delusional??
After a fed court rules that red flag laws perfectly fit within the constitution (as amended), you’ll see someone file a restraining order against FOID card holders in Illinois or New Jersey.
The gun owners in any particular state MIGHT go on a rampage. Just as you MIGHT back over a child.
Your car have a backup camera?
I’d agree that the Nunzmeister is delusional when he starts posting about how backup cameras and airbags will soon become an option in new cars.
I think you may have been hit in the noggin with a grapefruit sized piece of yourself if you think gun confiscation is a delusional notion.
Awww, thanks for the kind words, Tu! (You so know me!)
Sad thing is, if the Dems get in in 202, it’s all set-up for them to put the finishing touches on the 2nd. With Trumps lousy court pics (Not just Supreme) and appointees; plus the things he has already set in motion or compromised on….the Dem players in this act will have virtually no resistance.
And if they don’t get in….Trump will just keep doing as he has been doing- which will effectively accomplish the same thing.
Either way, we’re screwed- but if it’s with Trump, the NRA people will be cheering instead of protesting and resisting.
I suppose Nat thinks I’m delusional too for pointing out that CA. has already outlawed anything with a magazine capacity greater than SIX…… (Not to mention that state’s lengthy list of other draconian ‘gun control’ laws)
And if one is familiar, or just takes the time to dig a little, it doesn’t take much to see that CA’s gun laws seem to serve as a model or predictor of federal laws…..
My friend, you are drinking the Kool-aid.
How exactly is some who:
*packs his cabinet with Neocons and warmongers; Zionists, and Goldman-Sachs big-wigs;
*Appoints a Supreme Court ‘justice” who co-authored the Patriot Act, and helped establish the NSA;
*Has a mainstream Repugnantcan as his VP;
*Has allowed more welfare-seeking 3rd-worlders in than even Obama did;
*Has established tariffs which are going to cost us all far more than the few dollars he saved us by holding off on the Obozocare fine;
*Interferes with and engages in regime change with countries around the world as much or moire than any past president, while taking it one step beyond and breaking our treaties;
*Has increased military and police spending, even more than The Chimp did., thus further eroding our liberties and putting our very lives in even more jeopardy;
*Not only tells American businesses who they can do business with, but tries to dictate such to the entire world via sanctions and threats of aggression;
*Who, while pledging to make CCW permit reciprocity good in all 50 states, instead installs gun-grabbers to various high-level positions, including as head of the ATF- and in-fact, Trump has been the MOST anti-gun president in recent history
…well…I could go on, but you get the idea.
If you think that such is going to stave-off the destruction of our culture and what remains of our liberties, I’d say that you are only listening to the man’s words, while ignoring his actions.
The next 20 years will just see a further decline of liberty; standard of living; and destruction of society, no matter which figurehead is in office, which is why I’m planning to get out of here.
Eric’s argument is that, for all his numerous and egregious flaws, Trump is vastly better than the Hildebeast would have been, and vastly better than whichever buffoon on the Dem side gets the nomination. In this he is correct. He will not be persuaded to abstain because Trump is an authoritarian twit, because he is correct when he observes that “She” would have been worse. He has made it clear that he does not consider voting to be per se immoral, neither do I. Trying to persuade him otherwise is as futile as trying to persuade me that “my vote matters”.
Eric has most certainly not drunk the Kool-Aid, he is making a pragmatic decision, one that I do not share, but valid nonetheless.
Speaking of, I’ve been monitoring politics and I now believe that the Dems are pretty well sunk for 2020. The choices they’re offering are:
-Joe Biden, who at this point might as well be an establishment Republican
-Bernie Sanders, who got shenaniganed by Her last time but really doesn’t have what it takes to win anyway
-Probably Hitlery again, who knows
-A bunch of no-names that no one has ever heard of
And all of them endorse free health care for illegal immigrants, which is probably the single most tone-deaf position they could possibly take in the current political climate. Despite what the ascension of figureheads like Alexandria Occasionally-Coherent and Ilhan Omar might have you believe, no one wants this. No one. Not a single, solitary soul. In the throes of TDS, they took all their positions to the extreme, and now they’re going to pay for it.
It’s very likely, also, that the Republican party will have no viable alternative to Trump, nor any effective successor once he leaves in 2024, and the people have been successfully made to believe that third parties are the unworthy abodes of fringe loons. Enjoy it while it lasts, I guess.
I agree, the Dems are probably toast. Rather than do any self examination they concocted the fantasy that Russia and racism were responsible for Trump’s win. It couldn’t possibly have been that, in an election characterized by extreme populist anger, on the left and the right, against an out of touch and elitist political class, they conspired to torpedo Bernie and nominate a woman who personifies that class. They remain baffled that in a populist contest, the one populist left in the race won.
Yet they cling to the same “double R” (Russia and racism) narrative that failed them in 2016. To illustrate how clueless they really are, they’ve added a third R to the mix, radicalism.
Hey Jeremy, and Chuck,
You both make good observations here, BUT, let us not forget that there are 55 million communists in CA; 20-something million in NY; however many more in MA. etc. who DO want those crazy things the Dumbocraps propose…not to mention all of the illegals in states like CA and NY who will be able to vote (NY is now issuing them driver’s licenses; and since the MV registers people to vote- and there is no citizenship question…).
Look at the crazy stuff Hitlery was proposing- and how many votes she got in ’16.
Never underestimate the power of the free-shit army…. -NY’s recent issuing of licenses to illegals just may put the communists over the top.
And maybe, in a way, it’s good if that happens, because at this point, normal people may just be moved to non-compliance; tax revolts, etc. while they still have a few shreds of their rights left- including the 2nd amendment; whereas if Trump is re-elected, they will continue to slumber and obey, as he speaks their language, while he continues to take away what’s left of our liberty, unopposed, just as he has been doing, because he is given a free pass since he is perceived as being “on our side”- though he is not.
I agree, many people actually do want the batshit crazy stuff that the Dems are pushing. Still, many don’t and their getting tired of being called racists, haters, trasnsphobes, climate deniers, etc… for refusing to go along with the Orwellian demand that you adopt and promote beliefs that you know are false.
I agree that the dems are sunk for 2020. But the Republicans are sunk too because many Trump supporters- including me- think that the Republican politicians are just as bad as the communists…er…Democrats. I will not support any of these in 2020 or later. But who knows what the political landscape will look like after the inevitable financial reset/crash. Or the ;civil’ war we are being pushed into by the democrat-socialists. I hope that we can somehow avoid civil war- it would absolutely be the WORST thing for our country- and the end of it. On a personal note, I often think how grateful I am not to live in a more brutal time from the past, like when the Romans ruled the world with a cruel hand. A civil war would be a return to the brutality and utter cruelty of ancient times. And no one in their right mind would want that.
I dread this, too. Though it arguably won’t be a civil war. One can already see the blocs forming, but one of them – or a large cohort, at any rate – probably just wants to be left to go their own way. Sound familiar?
Once again, people like AOC aren’t content to erect a government of their consent – and leave those who don’t out of it. The rest of us will be forced – at bayonet-point – to “participate.” This will likely lead to violence.
It is also the last thing I want.
But if the Free Shit Army comes for me, tries to make me “share” my house with the “oppressed” – I will burn it to the ground first.
True, Eric. I did not mean to imply that I would accept chains rather than to fight if it comes down to that. Yes, war is almost the worst thing that can happen to us, but it is preferable to wearing chains.
I do agree with both you and Eric, Jeremy, as per all you’ve said above; and I don’t mean to condemn Eric for voting (Why would I, since it is meaningless?)….nor do I even disagree with his choice, considering the options.
I guess you could say, that I’m just trying to keep some focus on the reality of the situation- i.e. Trumps actual deeds vs. his words and promises; and the illusions which are being played out in the political sphere and media, which some seem to take seriously.
O-K, maybe I would like to convince Eric that Trump (and anyone else who becomes a part of the political machinery) is just as much of a detriment to our liberty as are the rest of them- and maybe even more so, as I’ve pointed out elsewhere- since Trump gets a free pass to do the things which if one of the other wrasslers were doing, would invoke the wrath of most Trump supporters.
I mean, imagine if Comrade Obama had further diluted our gas with 15% ethanol (Thus hastening the demise of our old vehicles; decreasing their performance; while using more of our money to subsidize farmers to produce that ethanol!)- Or if Obozo had been as detrimental to the 2nd Amendment as Trump!
I can’t help but feel (and again, this is in no way a condemnation of Eric- just a reporting of a spontaneous reaction; an allegory.) the same way I used to feel when my brother-in-law who worked for Grumman-Northrop would always vote for the war candidate to ensure the longevity of his career.
It’s kind of like voting for what flavor of condom gets used when you get ass-raped. [Sorry for the vulgarity- but just seems so appropriate!)
“It’s kind of like voting for what flavor of condom gets used when you get ass-raped. [Sorry for the vulgarity- but just seems so appropriate!)”
HAHAHA! I was also thinking of some bawdy analogies! This one takes the cake!
“It’s kind of like voting for what flavor of condom gets used”
They have flavored condoms?
I still recommend having your women spayed.
But if flavored condoms can keep you out of Club 216, they get my vote.
I’m in favor of the spay idea…but my vet won’t comply! Says he only does dogs, cats and cows. I told him we’ll come back when she hits 35….with a brass bell around her neck.
“Trump is vastly better than the Hildebeast would have been, and vastly better than whichever buffoon on the Dem side gets the nomination. In this he is correct.”
Come on Jeremy!
Do you really want this to go on ad infinitum.
Because IT WILL!!!
If you think these people are going to run out of ways to regulate you, and govern you, anytime soon, you’re delusional. 🙄
I’d even go so far as to say that if Hilly had been chosen by the powers that be, we might be on the path to freedom today.
The people that run this country picked Trump for a reason. They want the status quo. It’s OK that the volk grumble as long as they keep producing.
Eventually a festering zit gets so big that you’ll go against the dermatologist’s advice and pop it. Then you discover that it heals up quickly without pills and creams and multiple visits back to the doctor.
“a pragmatic decision, one that I do not share, but valid nonetheless.”
Well Jeremy there are consequences when one chooses pragmatism over objective reality.
One of the consequences is that zit continues to fester and grow.
I’ve consistently argued against voting since the first time this topic came up. I’ve managed to annoy the must not vote crowd and the must vote crowd. I am philosophically opposed to voting, however I don’t think it is immoral.
I believe that the real purpose of voting is to grant “legitimacy” to the State, to delude the people into believing that they have a choice and to perpetuate the status quo. I’ve made this argument many times here. I’ve also talked about the difference between a single vote and the cumulative effect of voting. I’ve argued that the emphasis placed on voting is irrational and leads to fuzzy thinking.
“If you think these people are going to run out of ways to regulate you, and govern you, anytime soon, you’re delusional”.
I don’t understand how you could possibly read my words and conclude that I think the above is true.
“I’d even go so far as to say that if Hilly had been chosen by the powers that be, we might be on the path to freedom today”.
This belief seems to rest on the assumption that the election of Hillary would have pushed enough people over the edge that they would revolt. I find this assumption naive.
C’mon Tuan, with the possible exception of whether you believe that voting is immoral, my position on voting is the same as yours.
Let’s get real.
“Trump is vastly better than the Hildebeast would have been”
No; Trump is the same as the Hildebeast. Different script, to appeal to a different audience- that’s all. But the actions are EXACTLY the same.
Ditto the Hildebeast. Had she gotten in, there would have been no difference, other than the words; and her hardcore supporters criticizing her for not being leftist enough; and for compromising with the other side when she would fail to live up to her radical leftist promises with which she wooed her voters- just as Trump has failed to live up to the promises he made to the opposite side.
This whole election sham is nothing but a spectacle which is put on to pacify those who don’t know any better, and who think that they are actually accomplishing something by voting.
The agendas of the empire continue on relentlessly no matter which actor is on the screen. The Swamp is not cleaned…it is filthier than ever.
Did the people who voted for Trump know that he would be the most destructive-to-the-2nd-Amendment president yet? Nope.
Did the welfare-loving libruls who voted for Bill Clinton know that he would slash funding to their favorite program more than any other prez since the inception of “The Great Society”? Nope.
Did Reagan votes know that smooth-talking Libertarian-sounding Ronnie would increase the scope and size of the fed gov more than any other prez before him except FDR? Nope.
But I’m sure all of those voters found it much easier to BS themselves that their pick was doing good, and was so much better than the opposition. Seems like when one votes, one has a vested interest in making thier candidate look good and find it much easier to ignore the things he does, which if the other side had done, they would be livid about. But they can’t be livid, since they voted for the person who did it, and therefore must either admit that they as a voter, were fooled, or if not, then actually advocated what their creep has done in their name/by their consent.
I don’t vote, I don’t advocate voting. I’ve explained this repeatedly. I don’t support Trump, never have, never will. Yes, he sucks. I still think he’s better than she would have been. That’s an opinion that has nothing to do with my stance on voting. You don’t have to explain to me the folly of voting. If you go back to Eric’s earlier article “Voting Matters”, you’ll find I argued against voting in that one as well. Geez, how can you guys conclude that because I believe that he’s better than Hillary, I support voting.
Ooo, sorry, Jeremy,
I didn’t mean to imply that my previous rant was aimed at either you or Tuanorea- it was intended more of “Let’s not get caught up in the facade” thing-mainly for the benefit of onlookers.
I know that you and I are in agreement about not voting, Jeremy.
And this takes me back to my old story about my ex-CIA buddy and I speaking of the upcoming 88 election when I asked what each one would do. “The same thing”, 3 words that came to be absolutely true and BC even ran with the promise to pass Bush 1’s bill he hadn’t had time to get into a vote, good ol NAFTA, that giant sucking sound the only real American in the race deemed it, Ross Perot.
I guess Texas can produce nearly anything imagineable from the notorious lying LBJ to Ross Perot, a stand up guy who really would have gotten something good done or died in the attempt. Ross knew the score. And TPTB knew Ross knew the score, the very reason he was literally blackballed by the press.
I voted for what I considered to easily be the lesser of two evils in 2000 when anyone with a heartbeat (and a heart)would have been better than the shrub.
It was that election that really opened my eyes about “who’s counting the vote” that matters.
I voted for Ron Paul but that put me off voting once again.
I truly believe if Hitlery had gotten in we’d already have a shooting war and it would be inside the borders. We damned near did have a real war with the Clive Bundy fiasco and the Feds doing everything they could so see Hitlery get her 20% of the profit from selling US uranium to Putin.
Obozo revived the civilian arms industry and turned out to be the best gun salesman for the entire industry…..ever. So why aren’t people saying same about Trump when he’s done more to take away guns than BO did? Another Trump or Hitlery and we won’t have to worry about a war, we’ll have one right here in the good ol US of A.
Godalmighty, I had something to say but I’ve forgotten it now. It took so long to find a reply button I think I’ll just wait till tomorrow. Maybe I’ll remember what I was going to say and to whom I was going to say it. Maybe I won’t(probaly this one). It took me 10 minutes to find a reply button. Oh well, got litter boxes to clean and cats and CJ to fee. I’ve only be up since 4:30 and been at work since before 7. Operated a big loader in such bad circumstances I was afraid either or both of us would give out. Oh well, I get to continue tomorrow and load my truck (if I can because of the non-bottom of silt I’m trying to work in). Hopefully I won’t have to manually clean 30 tons out of a belly dump but I ain’t countin on it. Good day everyone. Go fuck yourself WP.
“Did Reagan votes know that smooth-talking Libertarian-sounding Ronnie would increase the scope and size of the fed gov more than any other prez before him except FDR? Nope.”
Did they also know he had a hand in destroying the family via no-fault divorce?
Good point, Handler! Presumably, he did that while governor of Commiefornia? (I never even knew that he was the one who initiated that!)
Yep. I never read anything about it until I researched divorce law. I already knew what a phony he was, so it didn’t surprise me one bit.
Reagan was the trump of his day. said all the right things and did nothing once he was elected. Besides amnesty for millions of illegals that is. Two clowns in a pod Rest in hell Ronald.
Don’t forget that Ole Ronnie got SHOT in 1981. I think it was, in part, to let him know he had to, shall we say, watch his Ps and Qs?
He got the next to the worst ever gun law passed cause he was scared of black men with guns. Of course it permeated through every state as usual. When he was prez he was acting, didn’t have a clue about anything. His testimony before congress was pitiful and embarrassing….to everyone but him. He didn’t even remember the names of his cabinet nor much of anything. The lights were on but nobody was home.
And he got shot by a family friend. Not too many get it from that source.
“Reagan was the trump of his day. said all the right things and did nothing once he was elected.”
Besides signing into law the largest expansion of government at the time.
Trump will probably have the equivalent honor.
“Of course it permeated through every state as usual. ”
Yep. Ya wanna see the future of gun control nationwide, just look at CA.
Nothing that holds more than 6 cartridges.
10-day waiting period.
State maintains a registry of every gun.
Keep guns locked away in your own home.
Keeps guns unloaded and locked away in your vehicle.
No AR’s; No Ak’s. Build one yourself and you must apply for a serial number and special permit and register it.
No semi-auto shotguns.
And much, much more….
Doesn’t make a difference who ya vote for- they don’t want us having anything effective or that can match (much less overpower) what they have. They want you helpless when their goons break down your door- that’s what it’s all about.
Reagan was hit by a round from Hinckley’s .22 revolver that ricocheted off the inside of the door of the Presidential limo in an almost freakish manner – but for a split second, as Agent Jerry Parr was hustling the President inside the limo to “safety”, doing his best to shield him from possible further shots, the bullet found itself way right underneath Agent Parr and impacted the President in his left side, smashing two ribs and tearing into his left lung. Although Reagan was in pain, he believed that he’d cracked a rib and, though already coughing up blood, though he’d simply bit his lip. Reagan remained lucid and was, despite his pain, in an upbeat mood. Had the Secret Service been certain that Reagan hadn’t been hit, he’d had simply been taken to the White House, which had significant medical facilities, but wasn’t really equipped to handle the trauma situation of a potentially fatal gunshot wound. Agent Parr made the decision, once he saw the President’s condition, to go directly to George Washington University’s hospital, and it was there that it was confirmed that indeed the President had been shot. Due to the loss of blood, shock, and breathing impairment, and considering Reagan’s age (70 at the time), had the Secret Service team not gotten to the hospital immediately, it’s likely he’d had perished, and we’d have been stuck with George HW Bush. Instead, Reagan became the first, and fortunately since then, ONLY President to survive being hit by gunfire (In 1975, Jerry Ford was shot at once, but was missed, and had another gun leveled at him but was grabbed before the assailant could fire). Reagan had Agent Parr to thank as his cool assessment of the situation and response likely saved his life.
RR was appointing all sorts of ‘wrong think’ people to government jobs. People who were then learning how things really worked and were a threat to the rackets.
Then RR gets shot and everything changes.
Heh, yeah…..Ronnie gets shot, while the would-be assassin’s parents dine with the Bush’s…..but Tain’t nothin’ funny going on there!
Great analogy there, Mark- “The Trump of his day”- exactly. Yet to the masses who listen to the words but ignore the actions, they still think he was the greatest prez of the 20th century…and they’ll no doubt say the same about The Donald in the 21st.
“The Brady Bill” (Named after James Brady -Reagan’s press secretary and assistant- who also got shot) was the pinnacle of modern gun control- basically the beginning of the end of the 2nd Amendment.
Really, if I actually believed that the particular actor in the WH mattered, I think I’d go out and vote for the candidate who is the absolute worst; the absolute eptiome of tyranny and communism, etc. because it seems that whenever someone who feigns words of “Traditional American values” and “freedom” etc. is elected, they do more harm to our personal liberties than any liberal creep ever could.
BTW, that creep Brady finally croaked in ’14. I was still in my late teens back in ’81- and I used to watch a lot of TV then- and I still remember all the fawning the media did over that guy, as if he were some kind of saint, ’cause he got shot…. Damn! nearly 40 years later, and I’m still sick of it!
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: the Brady law, which ushered in the background check, effectively GUTTED the Second Amendment. How? It turned a right into a privilege.
How so, MM? If you go to a gun store and fill out the ATF form 4473, the salesman will make a call. On the other end of the line is an anonymous, gov’t bureaucrat who says, ‘yay, or ‘nay’, you may or may not buy that gun. IOW, you have to SEEK PERMISSION from a gov’t bureaucrat. Well, it’s axiomatic that, if you have to ask permission to do something, then you do not have a RIGHT to do that something! Ergo, the 2A is already a privilege; the 2A has effectively been gutted or repealed. What did it? The blasted Brady law…
‘Zacty, MM! Again, a so-called “conservative” doing more evil/wreaking more tyranny/getting away with more than any librul ever did.
And now we’re reliving it withg Trump.
Yeah, yay or nay. Didn’t pay your child support? [Soup Nazi voice]No gun for you!
Your crazy ex gets a restraining order against you in an effort to get full custody? No gun for you!
Beat the guy who broke into your house and was attempting to rape your daughter, to a bloody pulp, in a state like NY or CA? No gun for you!
And they say there’s no federal gun registry, and yet the gun store must keep a recortd of all sales on file FOREVER; and if they ever go out of bidness, the records get turned over to the ATF. Hmmm…..
Maybe they’ll merge Obozocare with Trump’s 2A assault…. “If you like your gun, you can keep your gun”[Nose grows 3 feet]
It was said that the late James Brady was RR’s favorite “vegetable”.
Seriously, it’s sad that what happened to this fellow was mis-used to avert the Second Amendment rights of honest, decent Americans, whom themselves would come to the aid of their President and/or defend it if he invoked the 1792 Militia Act. The gun-grabbing statists never miss a chance to turn a tragedy into an excuse to “infringe” on our freedoms.
I heard that he signed that bill, in part, because his own divorce from Jane Wyman had been rather acrimonious. But yeah, no-fault divorce made marriage a NO-WIN proposition for men…
Yup. Marriage has become a fatuity. The couple promises lifelong commitment to one another; in sickness and health, good times and bad… but it’s essentially at-will employment. The wife can fire the husband (and the reverse, though it is usually the wife who does the firing) at any time. For any reason at all. She is “not happy.” The husband “doesn’t listen,” etc.
Only an idiot would sign such a contract.
And I was one such, once.
The tragedy is everyone loses. Men, women – kids.
Men become rightfully leery of commitment and use women for sex and then discard (I am guilty of this).
Women find they cannot find a “good man” – and waste their sexually viable years in search of one while having sex with numerous men who discard them; the women wake up one day to realize they are getting too old to have kids and men increasingly no longer even want them for sex.
Men and women are spiritually and economically impoverished; kids are emotionally damaged.
It is Bad News.
The wife and I have considered divorce, not because there’s any animosity or we won’t continue to live together, but at our age, there are tax and income benefits to not be married.
How does this happen? Except by incompetent bureaucrats and politicians.
Marriage is a fairly new concept to humanity anyway. Probably part of the reason it isn’t quite working now. Matter of fact, I’ve NEVER seen one succeed in my life.
I have seen couples succeed, however. I haven’t married for this very reason. The state has no business nosing around in my personal affairs. And without the pressure of a “contract” I think it is a bit easier to bond with a person for the right reasons. If both parties know there won’t be a complicated legal mess to separate, neither party has leverage. This eliminates a huge deal of stress. Opening emotional space for a real connection. Real love. Not contractually obligated love. That shit fosters resentment.
The fact remains that men tend to go their own way these days. Leaving women discarded, as you say. This behavior is very damaging to society. And to the (quality) women this happens to. Women know if we don’t put out right away, you’ll pick another off the menu and discard us anyway. Trouble is, this behavior ruins the few decent chicks that are left. Some are slutty, and don’t care, so you’ll always find some pussy, might be rode hard and put up wet, but what do you care? Good chicks give it to the guy they really like, only. We carefully choose him, only to learn we’ve been swindled. (It’s happened to me) That shame and embarrassment is a hard emotional blow, that I avoid at all cost, now that I know the game better. And sorry fellas, I’ve taken myself out of consideration as a result. (Took only one special dude to teach me that one)
I’m no feminist.. they’re gross, but society has forced this lifestyle on me. Doing everything myself sucks. It hasn’t been fulfilling. What do we even do it for? Being single, I can go days without speaking a word to another human, which is sad.
Men don’t want to combine lives, especially post divorce. Leaving the the chicks who’ve “aged out” to fend for themselves, usually at your tax dollar’s expense. Women’s bodies wear out faster when faced with “man” work. Backs quit, hearts pop, joints dissolve. You still have to pay for it, only without the benefit of having her company(and help). Add some fatherless kids to the mix, and things get real ugly.
Still, I hold out hope. Maybe the generation behind me will fix this. I see it in a few young couples I know. They aren’t getting married, but they seem to be forming solid pair bonds, and doing it young. They’re assuming more traditional roles too, minus the contract.
Ditto all of that, Nunya…
As a divorced guy, I now feel disconnected from women, don’t trust them as a class. I never imagined I’d end up divorced. The whole reason I got married was because I felt certain she was as unconditionally committed as I was. Fuck ups happen, but you deal with them and continue on. That’s the point of marriage. If that’s eliminated, then marriage is s sham.
I agree with you that a commitment between the two people (and no government involvement) is the way to go; the problem is the government will get involved regardless – if the woman decides to lawyer up and you (the man) made the mistake of letting her move in. Formal marriage or not, she now has “rights” to your house/property; you may even have to pay spousal support.
So – no matter how decent a woman seems to be (and may actually be) in the back of every burned man’s mind looms the doubt – because of the possibility.
It seems the only way to have a relationship is not to have one. To maintain separate legal residences, bank accounts and so on.
Which – in the end – sucks. Because it means a life without the connection and mutual support people once enjoyed.
Very sad for all.
The more time goes by, the happier I am I never married! Not just because of the legal aspects (Although that is the elephant in the room) but also because of the compromise required to live with someone, for very little benefit- and the value/quantity/quality of any value depreciates as time goes on faster than an EV.
Of the people I know, all who are either married or had been married, I am the only one who is truly happy, and who lives stress-free, and has peace.
I can “bag” women closer to my age (60) that nevertheless, like a USED but well-maintained automobile, still have some “useful life” left in them, and often PAY their own way, or, if I want my world “rocked”, I can get women easily young enough to be my daughter (and I have FOUR, that are 43, 33, 32, and 18), though I must take necessary precautions to not “sign up” for another “hitch” at fatherhood! I should just get around to doing the ‘snip, snip’ thing, and spending a weekend on the couch with a cooler full of beer, watching the Giants WIN for a change, and alternating those to relieve my thirst and the other to ice up my aching ‘nads’. Why in the hell would this otherwise somewhat “observant” Mormon recommend marriage to a guy that’s already been through the legal castration process, aka divorce, especially in Calipornia, as I have?
You relics with the armored hearts…You let women scare you. Some bitches keep their brooms and warts hidden well, some for years. So I understand the leery attitude. For those that didn’t choose the broom and warts, and still haven’t yet been issued our Hilary pant suit, stop throwing us away. It fucking hurts.
I don’t know a shit test, or a secret to know if she’s a good chick..If I think of one, I’ll post it.
Feminism has taught women to look at men – and themselves – in unnatural ways. To regard it as demeaning to become wife and mother when biology has designed women to be those things (late teens/early-mid ’20s) and to find a good man to be her husband and father to her kids and then stick with him and them no matter what and fuck the outside world. Instead, she is practically ostracized from the sisterhood if she doesn’t pursue a “career” (some drudge job; so much more meaningful to slave for a corporation than to make a home for herself, her husband and kids) and put off marriage until she is approaching the end of her fertile years and then expect a highly conditional marriage that lasts as long as she is “happy.”
This repels men, more of whom have awoken to the reality.
What are we to do?
Well, we armor up – and we do what feminism has given us effectively no choice about doing: We have numerous transitory encounters with the endless conga line of availables.. which as men we can do, even if we are old and fat and ugly because women are attracted to different things than men and because we men are not limited in the ways women are.
If this were 1950 and an attractive and agreeable young woman rolled into my life, I’d snap her up as a wife and mother. I’d love to have a traditional relationship and family. But I will never put myself in peril of being shivved by a woman ever again. The first attempt damn near killed me.
Couple’a years ago, I had a chance to snag a really nice (and gorgeous) 23 year-old. I actuyally gave it some thought, even though I haven’t dated since 1992. Ultimately, I passed- and that was my formal resignation.
Nunya, it’s not just about the heart; it’s that women today don’t have anything to bring to the table (nor elsewhere 🙂 ).
They’ve become a liability, not an asset. They’re worthless anymore as housekeeprs; they’re unfaithful; not enjoyable as friends; not compatible philosophically/politically/etc; Their bodies are distorted and festooned with displays of bad taste; their health is poor; they age fast, and poorly; they’
re bitches; they’re materialistic opportunists…..
Really, everyone I know who keeps one around is miserable.
Let’s face it, most guys just keep ’em around for the few minutes of obligatory sex each month, and if they want to raise a fambly- which usually backfires these days, thanks to the court system, and ends uyp making slaves of the men, who have no say over how their child is raised, while having to support the bitch and the sprog while she’s off getting boned by someone else.
You’ve just described most of the men of my generation. (Why I like you relics) Most women are awful people. Hell, most people are awful. But not all. The good ones don’t find each other.
I don’t know the answer. But I know my life would be so enriched if I had someone (worthy) to share with.
The last one fucked me up. Might be a madame butterfly (minus the kid) situation over here. Lol.
Ya know what I miss most, gut busting laughter. The kind that happens from that special inside joke only couples share. I can’t remember what my laugh sounds like. Sad.
Laughter died for me along with my marriage. I work now. It’s like John Cougar sang about once: Life goes on on … long after the thrill of living is gone. Truth. We soldier on. You can’t fix this broken.
Mrs. Right doesn’t exist for the reasons Nunz has correctly pointed out.
Plus, many of them are so fucked up in the head. My pharmacist was murdered by his ex-girlfriend last summer. She killed herself, too. All in front of his customers and employees. Apparently, she didn’t care too much about her children (from a previous relationship, of course) she was leaving behind.
I used to desire those things too. Trouble is, they don’t exist; or if they do, it’s just for a fleeting second- and it’s not worth giving up the rest of your life and happiness for that fleeting second + the eons of gut-wrenching crap that goes with it.
Maybe in the past one could possibly find those things….not that they were all that common- but it was out there, if you were diligent and lucky. Today, we are living in a time period where women have devolved to being the worst they’ve ever been. They’re essentially not even women anymore….they’re just ‘not men’.
The unnatural power that the legal system has given them; the ideas the media has put into their heads (Not just theirs either, but anyone who subjects themselves to said media) has made women into something unnatural; not creatures to be our better half and to complement our lives…but more like competitors, who are now independent and will never be ours no matter what- so if we deign to be with them, we are just along for the ride, until they decide to get go down a different road.
The more I’ve seen over the years, the mopre content I am just to enjoy my peace and solitude and happiness.
I guess it’s all about not chasing rainbows.
Nunya is right about laughter. I rarely speak seriously about anything in a face to face conversation. I make a joke when something goes wrong….easier to laugh than cry or cuss.
I don’t make many jokes at home these days. I get a got to hell look and a misinterpretation of what I said(she’s deaf) and has a bad attitude. Something meant to be lighthearted often gets the “and what does that mean?”.
Oh, you’d get it if you hadn’t rather fight than laugh. It’s weird to speak in jokes nearly all the time to people I know and then catch myself at home to not get a row going. It really does suck and now that my best friend is gone, I am sorta living a single hell, going to work for 10 hrs busting ass and then come home to clean house.
Before he died I’d come in from a hard week of trucking(really hard stuff)and walk into a dirty kennel of a house with dishes piled up, litter boxes filthy and floors filthy too. I’d start busting ass late Fri. night so I could stand to go to bed.
Plus the fact she knew I hadn’t eaten all day, only did that after work, and come in to not a damned thing prepared or even leftovers. That’s sure fun. No joking at the end of the week except the joke was on me. It’s not so bad now since I get to clean every day instead and can sorta keep up with it. This week-end it was countless times of picking stuff up, sweeping every time, then mopping most of Sat. after doing that plus dishes. Sunday it was one load of clothes after the other, then time to vacuum. She started 3 dishes and I ended up cooking them.
I now want a divorce, not to move out but a friend told me I qualified, if not married, to get reimbursed and paid for my labor after my day job. Sounds good to me. At least CJ and the cats still love me so that’s a plus.
BTW, she still thinks I get some now and then. I don’t know when it would be since I work all day and am at home all night. I’ve had offers at Wally, the meetup place I guess. I’m not into the “one time with a person I’ve never seen before”.
Yeah, you could get paid to care for your ailing wife.. you might not have to be divorced to do it though. Check with your local social services department. (Idk what your locality calls it)
And thanks for reading my crap. This comment section serves as therapy for me sometimes. Often in the form of holding up a mirror, but sometimes I get support I don’t otherwise have. (You and I have been back and forth many times)
My love to you.
Damn, Eight! I hate to hear that.
I’m the same way- always jovial; always have some humor to inject; I’ll always make ya laugh- I’m happy-go-lucky…..but it’s amazing how most women’ll bring ya down real quick (and when that happens, I get MAD!!- Something which is not normally in my palette of personality traits)
I’ve seen this so much, ev er since I was a kid [I had a fishing buddy when I was 16, who was in his 40’s]- a guy’ll be happy and cheerful, without a care in the world…and then the wife comes along- (nee Buzzkill)- and pffffffft!
I don’t understand how they tolerate it, for many, many years…usually until the bitch decides that SHE isn’t happy one day, and leaves.
I resolved to never be that guy.
I am now a veteran, so to speak – and can speak from experience. The thing about legal (government) marriage is that the woman knows she can leave at will – despite all the pretty nonsense about sickness and health/good times and bad – which gives her tremendous power. The man knows this, too – which is the source of her power over him. In the past, when marriage was a commitment taken seriously and divorce was also taken seriously, if a woman decided she wasn’t “happy” and left, she could leave. But nothing left with her. Not the kids, not the house, not the money. This helped cement the commitment.
Nowadays, a man is well-advised to keep things less… formal. So that when she decides she is not “happy” – or is no longer agreeable – well, there’s the door. See you around.
Maintain separate legal residences and bank accounts – even if she spends most of her time at your place. Do not get married in the eyes of the government – which includes living together full time in the same house.
If you keep things . . . informal, you retain all your power – and she knows it. Which serves as an incentive to continue to be agreeable.
If she decides she longer wants to hold your hand – or have sex – there’s the door…
It’s a shame it has come to this, but it is what it is.
Anon, I think I speak for most when I say that we enjoy reading your “crap”!
Sounds like she hid her broom pretty well. My heart goes out to you.
Still, it is really bad behavior to use women for sex. Sure you can, because there are plenty of hos out there, but you might ruin a life or two in the process. Decent chicks WILL get in the mix, and you’ll ruin them. Good women and casual sex don’t mix. Paying forward the damage from your failed marriage spreads that misery. You might be your own casualty too. AIDS is still a thing. Not to mention the worst STD of all, a kid with a skank.
True – although I should have qualified what I meant a bit. I don’t have sex under false pretenses; meaning, I don’t lead women I have sex with to believe I am looking for a serious relationship; and all of the women I have been with since my divorce have been equally up front about it. Or at least, I have taken them at their word.
I don’t know whether I will ever be able to have more than causal flings with women. So far, the younger ones I’d possibly be interested in as possible wives/mothers are only interested in hooking up or are busy working on their “careers” (read: jobs) while the ones interested in relationships are the ones I’m not interested in that way because they’re too old/have kids by some other guy/can’t have kids anymore or just aren’t my type, in terms of physical attraction.
You just said yesterday that you use women and discard them.. that’s bad behavior.
Again, I should have qualified it. We use each other – in the sense that both are going into it without false advertising. I don’t pretend I am going to marry a girl or even be her boyfriend to get in her pants – just as she doesn’t pretend she is looking for a husband or boyfriend. She wants to get into my pants, too.
I agree it’s bad behavior, even so.
But what’s the choice? I’m still a man and I am still alive. I would much prefer that the woman I chose to be my wife and who said she chose me hadn’t left, but she did – and that scars a guy, forever.
Was I the perfect husband? Far from it. But I loved her unconditionally and would never have been the one to leave.
When she did, something inside of me died.
And I quote, “Men become rightfully leery of commitment and use women for sex and then discard (I am guilty of this).”
Your words, babe, not mine.
I’m here to read about cars anyway. Just thought I’d jump into this discussion to offer a non-feminist female perspective.
I keep forgetting to sign in..
Sadly Eric, you’ve been there.
Yeah, keeping it informal isn’t a solution either, ’cause informality is not intimacy; separate is not intertwined; independent is not codependence……
So why even bother?
My neighbor managed to emerge unscathed from his first divorce- largely because he had nothing at the time.
Second time around, then with a house and land, he got married, but kept separate finances, etc. and of course, it ended in divorce again (Although he had kept her after she committed adultery- after she finished nursing school she was conveniently ‘no longer happy’.
So my neighbor escaped unscathed again- but what did he really have? When things are such that one has to anticipate divorce, it pretty much puts the kibosh on any chances of a successful marriage, because both sides still know that there’s always an ‘out’.
It’s a disgusting predicament, which although not acknowledged widely yet, has really changed society for the worse more than any other single act of government- and therein lies the problem- that government got involved in the institution of marriage, and in the fambly and interpersonal relationships.
Is there ANYTHING government can’t F up?!
This is very well-said. It is, indeed, a tragedy for all of us – men and women. We lead more isolated lives; we often spend much of our lives alone – on our own.
I often envy prior generations
“Women are attracted to men who are smart and successful; who can provide and protect. Who are capable of being good fathers as well as husbands”
I have come to the conclusion that’s a myth. The human female is attracted to excitement and social status primarily, but it is tempered by risk. It is that risk that causes attraction to the sort of men described.
For awhile social and economic conditions were such that what you describe was desirable. One to one marriage also made it such that the bulk of the women wouldn’t be sharing a single man. Be it in parallel or serial.
That time is over in the west. It’s gone. Feminism was designed to remove the consequences for following natural desires, making poor choices, etc and the economy has been reorganized into a winner-take-all wealth concentration model.
We are going to see feminists demanding that the marriage of many women to one man be legal sooner or later. Meanwhile for all other men besides that very top 19th century rules of interacting with women will apply.
If the west doesn’t collapse from the debt and financialization first it’s going to be one strange dystopian society.
“Still, it is really bad behavior to use women for sex.”
Today’s conditions are what they are. Is it really bad behavior today or just risky behavior? I still think it’s not a good thing to do but generally women have no issue trying to use men for what they want. So a man either plays the game or doesn’t.
This society now classifies those men who don’t use other people to get what they want as losers. Women pick up on these values in a man and will lose interest in a such a loser pretty quick.
The brief era of being productive and going through life on your own merits and ability being desirable is past and gone. It’s collectivism now. It’s about who can best use others.
It’s never going back so long as women vote and the state and economy doesn’t collapse.
“I believe that the real purpose of voting is to grant “legitimacy” to the State”
The sanction of the victim.
“I don’t understand how you could possibly read my words and conclude that I think the above is true.”
You said Eric “is correct “
He is not.
“This belief seems to rest on the assumption that the election of Hillary would have pushed enough people over the edge that they would revolt. I find this assumption naive.”
But I’d maintain that there is a demonstrable level of cognitive dissonance that triggers the fight/flight mechanism.
So when Eric is a day late and a dollar short, as the free shit army comes goose stepping down his street, he’ll get permission to burn it down.
He will also be denied permission to leave the burning building.
“my position on [many things] is the same as yours.”
Except for the part about touching the stove.
As the Rock&Roll Jesus says, “You gotta touch the stove to learn they say
Get burnt and learn that way”.
It IS necessary for people to get burnt or Hillareed in order to learn.
Trump is like having your hand put in warm water when you’re asleep. You just wake up embarrassed after you wet the bed.
I’m in favor of accelerating the police state. Qualified Immunity for cops who pour boiling water on people and pets when they raid the wrong house. (By the way, cops currently have immunity for that because there is no stare decisis saying they shouldn’t.)
Eventually all those disfigured people will start to communicate.
PS. Just cracked a nice cold Blue. Still just a dollar if you buy 12 at the Walmart. Life is not yet untenable.
However, I don’t think untennability is in the distant future. But if people keep voting for it…
I said Eric is correct in his assessment that Trump is better than Hillary would have been. Of course, I can’t know this for sure and it’s just an opinion. I never said that his pragmatic choice to vote was correct or even that I believed that it was a pragmatic choice. My post was intended to point out to Nunz that listing the many sins of Trump was not going to change Eric’s mind. I also said that his choice was valid. By that I meant that I don’t consider it immoral, and that it was consistent with his stated belief that he considers Trump to be a “black swan” event. I don’t think he’s correct on that. Sorry, I’ve written a lot about voting on this site, I assumed that what I wrote about Eric’s position would be viewed in that context.
I have fond memories of the those cold Blues.
I consider the back and forth we’ve been having on the subject – voting – to be worthwhile and engaging. I am definitely not mad at you (or Nunz) for agreeing or disagreeing with me. That would be something I’d be ashamed of!
I don’t like voting for anything; the very idea of voting is – as I think we all agree – toxic because it is an affirmation ritual that rights are communal rather than individual and that by doing so, we are explicitly giving a general proxy power to other people to act on our behalf (so it is claimed) without reference to our actual, specific wants – and against the rights of others.
In a moral society, voting would be an absurdity.
But we do no live in a moral society. It is therefore sometimes a practical necessity to vote in order to prevent what rights we do have from being further abused.
This is how I view – and defend – voting for Trump.
We are going to be taxed; this is certain and unavoidable. But Trump’s election has meant lower taxes.
There are going to be wars; Trump’s election has very likely reduced the number of these.
There is going to be authoritarianism; Trump has given us less of this overall.
And: He has assaulted the verities of political correctness on multiple topics – a thing inconceivable had Trump not been elected.
Hence my vote.
I grant it is probably comparably to lightly – and briefly – applying the brakes in a speeding car headed toward a cliff. But it might prove to be more than that; the car could possibly stop. One never knows.
With anyone else as Decided, it would already be over.
“it would already be over.”
What’s wrong with getting it over?
50 years ago we had a bright future with the catchphrase, “Live long and prosper.”
Today’s catchphrase is “Live long and suffer.”
Tomorrow’s catchphrase is “Comply or die.”
“I grant it is probably comparably to lightly – and briefly – applying the brakes in a speeding car headed toward a cliff. But it might prove to be more than that; the car could possibly stop. One never knows.”
Toonces knows Eric.
I hear you – and you may well be right. But I can’t bring myself to let go while there is any hope of avoiding what could well become a bloodbath, perhaps unrivaled in this hemisphere.
I mentioned to Nunz the other day that, had I been a Russian in 1918, I would have joined the Whites and fought against the Reds.
I see our situation today as analogous…
I know that you’re not mad at us, I also know that you’re well aware of the voting trap in particular and the fraud of democracy in general. I also understand your attitude about voting for Trump. Speculation about what would have occurred had she won is just that, speculation; none of us can know for sure. Still, I share your belief that she would have been worse and I don’t believe, as Tuan and Nunz have suggested, that her election would have sparked
meaningful resistance, and thus been better for the prospects of liberty. Of course, such is possible but, to me, unlikely.
I guess what stands out for me is how insidiously effective voting propaganda is, as it can even work on people who know it’s propaganda. The game is so absurdly rigged that when an apparent wrinkle in the rules comes along (Trump), some of those who know this game cannot be won are tempted to play anyway.
It’s also possible that the hysterical overreaction to Trump is, at the deepest level, promoted precisely to throw a bone to the undesirables in order to keep them playing the game. We see this tactic when the power elite occasionally goes after one of their own. When they do so it is never because they are concerned with whatever crime the recent pariah supposedly committed, but because the target did something to anger someone higher up in the chain of power. They must be delighted that they can enact revenge against an intransigent while conferring “legitimacy” to the system by posing as a neutral defender of justice. Blagojevich probably understands this now.
Anyway, two things seem very clear to me, your individual vote is meaningless and we can’t vote ourselves out of tyranny.
Ha! You said part of what I had intended to post this morning!
The police state grows unabated, and will continue, no matter whom one votes for. The only way it’s going to end, is when it comes crashing down under the weight of it’s own dysfunction and immorality.
Even if we could prolong it, why would we want to?
We may think that we’re being given a stay of execution when someone who speaks words which are more analogous to reason than the words of the other tyrants- but this is not the case, as even the better-sounding candidate is just as much a proponent of increasing the size and scope and unaccountability of the police state.
And even if we believed that we realkly had a choice, and that we could elect a candidate who would do somethijg different and tame the system and restore liberty through the very processes of government and ‘democracy’ which were responsible for creating this mess in the first place- that would still not fly, because the old axiom is true that people get the government they deserve- and it should be obvious by now, that our society and cuilture have so devolved that the majority are now amoral incompetent creatures who can not function without the state- and therefore any real hope of libertarianism and voluntary cooperation is pretty much dead, as long as the system which enables this behavior to continue; and these people to reproduce in their own image (Providing malleable for the skools and media) continues to function and exist.
It’s likely not going to end until through our own ineptitude, resources become scarcer and a few other world powers have had enough and nuke us off the face of the earth.
And until or if that happens, the police stae will just keep growing- doesn’t matter if it’s a Donald or a Mittens or a Hitlery at the wheel- the same agenda continues- and it certainly has with Trump, just as much as it did with anyone else….just the speeches amd the people who cheer are different- but the actions and results are the same.
eric, the car might slow enough to bail with a good chance of survival.
And to address what Jeremy said about the elites, such as the Epstein thing. He’d already been in big troub and got a slap on the wrist. They have no choice now but to throw the dog(public) a bone to keep the rumbling down.
People and dogs, once having lost their temper can only regain a clear mind after they’ve calmed down, many times with the opponent lying dead and no longer responding to bites or kicks.
Controlling people is a tricky bidness and it can bite you in the ass if you push them into too much of a corner, just like your dog. Trump is just what is needed to keep the firecracker from lighting…..but I constantly read comments online and everybody is getting pretty fed up.
Those tweets that offended even the libertarians and what not, were calculated to smooth the ruffled fur of his “constituency” and perhaps make the other side over-react and lose more credibility.
I don’t think Trump is especially smart and certainly no the genius he thinks he is. I think he’s smart like a fox and knows how to work both sides while actually plotting something neither side wants. Don’t know if I’ll vote or not. I’ve grown so tired of throwing threats over my lifetime. I’m about ready to square off and get it done. Not saying my survivability is worth a snowball’s chance in hell, just tired of this continual dog and pony show. I don’t want to be the dog or the pony. I don’t wanna play “their game”any longer.
Yeah, 8- The Epstein thing really proves that there are not really two sides…rather, just two sides of the same coin. They all played and partied together- Trump, Clinton…even the Limeys…..
In theory, voting is a hallmark of DEMOCRACY…but there’s just one wee little problem, and you Eric, being a resident of Virginia and undoubtedly familiar with its extensive history, know that the Founders NEVER intended that we’d live in any DEMOCRACY, but a REPUBLIC. Furthermore, they never intended that suffrage would be universal; rather, it would be limited to MEN of sufficient means and reason that the franchise could be entrusted to them.
As for those that bemoan the restricted nature of voting back in those days, I would ask, and what, pray tell, has extending the vote to women and ensuring that ‘minorities’ participate in the political process done, save to enable politicians and their self-interested supporters to readily manipulate a gullible public? The Founders would cringe at what this once-proud Nation has become, and wonder why in the hell don’t the good citizens storm DC with pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers, and a few lengths of stout rope, to hang the worst offenders from a sturdy tree, and to run the remainder of the rascals, tarred and feathered, out of town on a rail!
“My post was intended to point out to Nunz that listing the many sins of Trump was not going to change Eric’s mind.”
Just to clarify: My intent is not necessarily change Eric’s mind (I think we are all on basically the same page here…), but I am just trying to point out [what should be obvious to all by now] that Trump’s words are contrary to his actions; that he is doing nothing different than any of the other abhorrent candidates would have done; and that he is merely capitalizing on the sentiments of those who have become disenfranchised with the standard fare offered by the typical players, by saying what they want to hear.
I agree with all of your statements about Trump, except this:
“…that he is doing nothing different than any of the other abhorrent candidates would have done”.
First, we cannot know this, as it’s counter historical speculation; and he has done things that almost certainly would not have been done had she won. Rescinding the doubling of fuel fatwa penalties and the Obamacare mandate are two of them. There is no correct value to be placed on this, as it is subjective. Eric values it a lot more than you do. There is no right or wrong here.
Trump is a lifelong political insider who has repeatedly exploited that status for personal gain. He is an unprincipled opportunist and cronyist douchebag. He is also a faux populist who correctly judged the mood of a large part of the electorate.
It is true that most Trump supporters believe his dishonest rhetoric and are blinded by this delusion to the many evils perpetrated by him. It is also true that his supporters would have been outraged at the same actions perpetrated by her. So, it is possible that the election of her would have spurred them to meaningful resistance, I find that doubtful.
Well said- and I also agree with all that you’ve said above.
And yes, while it is speculative to imagine what someone else may or may not have done if elected, I think we can both agree that for at least the last 100 years (and probably 150 years or longer) the same agendas continue regardless of the players.
Yes, we may get a few tiny perks; a few scraps thrown out way, depending on who is in….but they are usually unexpected and short-lived.
I always use the example of Slick Willy and his welfare reform, because that was a totally unexpected perk from an unlikely source- but something which needed to be done to divert money to wars.
Imagine if a Repugnantcan had won that election instead, and had done the same thing- which he would have, inevitably.
The people who would have voted for the R would be saying “See? Our vote mattered! Look what our guy did! Yaaaaaayyyy!!!”- thinking the action was a result of their candidaye having won- when in fact, we see that the very same thing happened even with the pro-welfare candidate in office.
Or take the EPA CAFE MPG thing: Why was just that one fatwa put on hold [and that’s all it is]?
It was done because of the new mandate to allow 15% ethanol in the gas- which will further reduce the efficiency of gasoline and vehicles which use it- soi the very same vehicles which are being tested now, will actually get worse MPGs when tested with the newly formulated gas. This is nothing more than robbing Peter to pay Paul, or tightening a loose bolt on one side, only to loosen a tight bolt on the other side- the two actions effectively cancel each other out.
Hitlery would liukely have had to do the same, as she would have also increased the ethanol subsidies…and there has to be a place for all of that ethanol to go- and it would be done, because it is a part of the green war against the ICE vehicles- and to do so without putting tyhe CAFE fatwa on hold, would mean that the US auto manufucturers would have had to make major changes immediately, which likely would have killed the industry right now- and no one wants to take credit for that.
And even if Hitlery had done nothing (i.e. not increased the ethanol, and thus not rescinded the CAFE fatwa) as described above, the effects would still be the same- i.e. 10% ethanol + current CAFE standards, or 15% ethanol and rescinded CAFE = the very same thing- no differnce- err…in fact, there is a difference: Noiw with 15% ethanol, more tax money will be spent to subsidize farmers.
We can’t win. Half a dozen of one; siz of another. Doesn’t matter.
Same thing with the Obozocare mandate (and I do value taking the teeth out of their ability to collect the fines- even though I am not a “customer” of the IRS)- No matter who was in- be it the one who promised to end Obozocare on his first day…or the Hildebitch…..it would have been the same- she would have had to also offered some relief, because as it was, many ins. co.s were pulling out of the artificial “markets”- and the funds are simply not there for implementation of her commie healthcare scheme.
The only thing that changes, are the people who cheer at the speeches, and who sit quietly on their hands when their guy does what they would have vehemently opposed had the otrher guy done it….. But because they voted for their guy, they pick and choose what are perceived as his good actions, while ignoring the bad.
Nunz, the 15% ethanol was mandated a year and a half ago and it was put on hold because of an unavoidable truth. It would have required the corn producers to increase their yield by 50% and they said they couldn’t do it. The blenders said they couldn’t do it either.
Can they now? I don’t know. They’ll probably import corn and increase the price even further.
No, 8, that was a different thing a year and a half ago- I posted a link to the most recent mandate (June 2019) in another discussion here…too lazy to find it now- but this new one gives the farmers the subsidies so they can produce that extra 50%- it will actually cause more farmers to grow corn. Trump ostensibly did this to woo the farmers into supporting him by increasing the subsidies.
Just Google it…you’ll find the new mandate.
So many damn mandates, we can’t even keep track of ’em all!!
I’ll never understand why some libertarians still have hope in this corrupt system.
Me either, Handler. People whom you would never expect to drink the Kool-aid….are fooled by mere words, even though the actions of the one who spews them are completely contrary to those words.
Big deal- so the CAFE standards increase is delayed at the present level…..so if you should want to buy a black-box laden new car, with start-stop, and elephant-leg thick pillars, and mandated back-up camera, and automated braking…at least it won’t be further downsized for now. I guess they had to do it, to compensate for the poorer mileage those cars will get now that the gasoline will contain 15% ethanol.
And the money we save on the Obamacare tax, will help us pay for the increased price of Chinese goods at Walmart; or the cost of having to by=uy made in America over-priced crap when the imports slow down (Which according to DHL, they already have, and VASTLY so).
And it will also help us pay to replace the stuff that is stolen from us, since we will be unable to defend our property soon, thanks to the one who said “Just confiscate the guns, and worry about due process later”- and who is turning out to be the biggest foe of the 2nd Amendment in history….
I fail to see the difference between any of the candidates- R or D- They ALL only increase tyranny and the size and scope of government. That Libertarians would vote for any candidate in such a cesspool, is utterly ridiculous.
How does one choose between Hitler and Stalin? Oh…Hitler only killed 3 million[sic] while Stalin killed 60 million? Hitler therefore is clearly the lesser evil, and therefore we should vote for him. That’s how absurd it is.
Nun, I like this one: If pigs could vote, the man with the slop bucket would be elected swineherd every time, no matter how much slaughtering he did on the side. —Orson Scott Card
Well I could say a lot about this current occupant of the Oval office but I’ll leave to others to find out for themselves.
However the idea of tRump gaining another four years may be highly in doubt as long as he continues his diet of diarrhea burgers and diet sodas. Diet sodas are now being linked with various health problems including pancreatic cancer. Additionally his addiction to snorting Adderall is already damaging his health.
he may not make it. My guess , he won’t and we’ll have Mike Pence to deal with.
Yeah, I worry about this also. He looks terrible. I would say he is medically obese. Look at pics of him from the ’90s and now. He has probably gained 50 pounds.
One of the BEST things about President Trump is the way that he makes the opposition go absolutely BATSHIT CRAZY ! If your enemy is incapable of thinking straight, the battle is half won already.
Nat, it’s just a show; an act to keep people participating (and it seems to work very well, as it even works on some of our own!). c. ’05 Trump donated $200K to Hitlery. Noticer how he STILL has done nothing to bring her to justice, despite the fact that he EASILY could.
It’s just BS to keep the major parties enshrined; it’s as fake as pro wrestling.
Notice how, no matter who is in office, the same things conmtinue unabated; and the same agendas are pursued and added to.
“It’s just BS to keep the major parties enshrined; it’s as fake as pro wrestling”.
That’s an insult to pro wrestlers who, while definitely following a script, actually have talent, take risks and provide entertainment that some people value.
Nunzio I once read a story about competing store owners across the street from each other who sold the same stuff. One would place a sale on something and the other would retaliate by discounting it even more. And then the other one would retaliate further and so on. They would regularly meet in the street and have screaming matches at each other. Apparently the customers loved it. Finally one day one of them retired and then the very next day the other one did. Turns out they were brothers and supposedly had a tunnel between their stores and it was all an act. Dont know if its true but thats politics.
Haha! I’ve seen that in real life- only the players weren’t brothers nor cooperating.
A street on Lawn Guyland where I used to rent yard space….. The street was lined on both sides with salvage yards. At it’s height, in the 80’s, there no-kidding must’ve been 30 of them just on this one street- I can still rattle off the names of at least tern of them. I used to buy parts from ’em to fix my own cars…and then when I was hauling junk, I’d sell them cars…so I got to know many of the owners.
They’d have price wars; try and out-do each other in advertising; play dirty tricks on each other…. well, I guess too much competition in a small area is a bad thing….
Today, there are TWO salvage yards left on that street. (Both owned by Jews, who had enough money to ride-out all the competition, and who bought up the multi-million dollar land that the others sat on- now literally owning about a mile-long stretch of land on that street, which is worth hundreds of millions, being where it is- and is one of the few undeveloped large parcels remaining in the area….and will no doubt soon be covered with more McMansions and strip malls)
I agree that it’s all a show. Years ago, I coined this phrase, “they pretend to disagree so we can pretend we have a choice”. A long time ago I gave up trying to convince people not to vote unless they ask me why I don’t vote. To those not already pretty far down the libertarian/anarchist rabbit hole, the argument is incomprehensible, all you achieve is convincing them that you’re crazy. To those who know it’s a show, I don’t presume to judge them or try to talk them out of it. The interesting thing about this issue is that both voting and non-voting are meaningless at an individual level (as far as affecting the outcome), but meaningful in the aggregate. In the case of voting, Eric is correct when he asserts that the winner of the election is determined by the aggregate of votes cast. In the case of non-voting, it becomes meaningful, as far as undermining the legitimacy of political authority, only when so few people vote that the myth of consent is no longer tenable.
However, I consider the mantra that “every vote matters” to be as risible and dangerous as the mantra “we are the government”. It encourages an absurd over valuing of “Democracy” and undermines other avenues of resistance.
I didn’t choose to be divorced; the choice was thrust upon me. I have had to make do with the choices available to me. I regard voting in the same light.
I understand the argument that voting serves to anoint the very thing we Libertarians abjure – government by force as opposed to rules by consent.
At the same time, we are presented with a fait accompli. Our principled choice to live and let live will not be respected by the many who do vote. But we have the option to counter their votes with our own. The vote is of course a package deal and part of the package we are necessarily supporting is toxic (viz, the loathsome things Orange Man has done).
But on balance, the loathsome things are objectively fewer and thus I conclude voting is our only non-suicidal choice.
On just one issue – Obamacare – Trump has at least undermined government-controlled medical treatment. This undermining may make it possible to get rid of it. I understand the chances are slim; that we will probably end up with a “conservative” version of it (e.g., “repeal and replace”). But it is undeniably true that there is a chance. And this is solely because of the Orange Man.
The 2016 election mattered.
His two appointments to the Supreme Court, while far from being Libertarian and what we would have preferred – are far less obnoxious than what we would have had to endure for the rest of our lives had Trump not been the one making the picks. Are these picks authoritarian? Yes. Are they marxists? No.
The election mattered.
I will always defend principles – and this includes the principle of self-defense. Just as I will vote against a raise in my property taxes, much as I would prefer to vote in favor of eliminating them outright, I will support the Orange Man because he is the only operative alternative to outright socialism as purveyed by the AOC, et al.
We are playing for time. And in time, things may get better. There is a chance.
I haven’t argued that the election didn’t matter, in fact I specifically agreed with you about that. I haven’t chastised you for intending to vote or suggested you should not vote. I know that you haven’t drunk any Kool-Aid and that you’re well aware of the problems with voting, and defended your position on this. I described three scenarios built around me sitting at the bar in my local pub and asked you which one is likely to have the most effect. It is obvious that option 1, vote for Trump but keep that to myself, is completely meaningless. Whereas, options 2 and 3, may produce some tangible effect. In short, I am not trying to convince you to not vote, yet you are trying to convince me to vote, why?
You have offered an answer, “every vote matters”, and this is what I object to. I consider this mantra to be as risible and dangerous a piece of Statist propaganda as “we are the government”. First, it is demonstrably false. You made the claim that every vote matters because votes add up, which surprised me because you are usually quite rigorous. Writing it as an if/then proposition should make this clear. If votes add up, then every vote matters. One can imagine a system where this statement is true but, in the winner take all system, it is not. By “matter” I mean affect the outcome of the election, their are other intangibles, the effect of which, cannot be measured (margin of victory, voter turn-out, etc…). In my sense, the votes that matter are all of the winners votes sufficient for a victory, all votes above that and all of the votes for the losing candidate, don’t “matter”.
This may seem trivial, to me it is very important. The legitimacy of government is founded on a number of quasi religious myths and absurd propositions, “every vote matters” is an absurd proposition. The State wants us to believe many absurd propositions because it conditions us to accept government authority and damages our critical thinking skills. You understand that, “consent of the governed”, “delegation of authority”, the “common good”, the “will of the majority”, “we are the government”, etc… are all false assertions designed to convince us that the special status of the government is legitimate because “we” conferred it upon them. “Every vote matters” is part of this.
Each particular propaganda nugget, serves a conditioning purpose. The first two condition us to accept political authority, the second two condition us to accept the idea that that the well being of the collective, supersedes the rights of the individual and that it is immoral to be “overly” concerned about oneself, ones family, friends, local community, etc… The last two condition us to believe that “we” control the government, “we” can change it and, if anything goes wrong, it is “our” fault as “we” are really in charge. This despicable idea even shows up here! It also conditions us to over value democracy and undermines alternative solutions. Jury nullification to provide proper justice and damage bad laws? Oh no, that would challenge social order which depends on the legitimacy of the justice system. Don’t like the law, vote to change it. Provide direct, private charity? Oh no, that might be unsafe! The list goes on.
Hey Jeremy & Eric,
Just wanted to clarify: The reason I mentioned “drinking the Kool-aid” is because some here [several people] have been equating Trump with a lessening of tyranny, or preservation of liberty- which, judging by the man’s actions over the course of the past 3 years, is patently untrue to the point of absurdity.
Trump, like all others, has furthered tyranny and reduced liberty.
To say that the alternative would have done even worse, is speculative, because we simply do not know what she would have been allowed to do; if the mid-term elections would have turned out differently had the bitch been elected [probably]; if there would have been some outcry and rebellion; etc.
In reality, they ALL end up doing the same things and furthering the same agendas, and if we think not, we are deluding ourselves.
For one example: Had Hitlery been elected [shudder], there likely would have been a massive outcry and rebellion had she assaulted the 2nd Amendment as Trump has.
Trump does it, and most go quietly and just ignore it and keep praising him- all except for a small segment of ‘the gun community’.
Trump installs a Supreme Court judge who always sides with liberals, and who helped establish the NSA and Obozocare; and authored part of “The Patriot Act”….and people- even here- praise him and say “Thank Gawd some librul didnb’t get to appoint him!”.
Kool-aid at it’s finest.
The next time somebody says “Well, you said you didn’t vote so you have no reason to complain”. Pop, wham bam. I’m tired of debating this false bullshit.
Imagine going into a grocery store where they are advertising Roma tomatoes on sale. You go to purchase some of the sale tomatoes, and see that they are all squishy and half rotted, so you opt instead for on-the-vine tomatoes which are not on sale.
You complain: “You advertised tomatoes on sale, but all of the sale tomatoes are rotted, so I ad to buy the more expensive ones!. The clerk says “Yes, sir, but we did offer the Roma tomatoes for the sale price, just as advertised. The choice was yours, and you opted for what you perceive as the better choice”.
In that sense, you were essentially prodded to buy the more expensive tomatoes, because the other choice was so ridiculously bad.
This is how elections usually work. You opted for what appears to be the better tomato, because the alternative was rotted and moldy [I’m sure a CAT scan of her brain would substantiate that]- and since it was ‘your choice’, you now feel that you accomplished something positive, and have a vested interest in defending your tomato, even though it’s just as much a GMO pesticide-laden POS as the other- just not quite as rotted yet.
This is how consent is manufactured, and people are pacified [The particular variety of tomato changes every 4-8 years, so all ‘consumers’ get to participate], while the ‘consumer’ has no real choice- just the illusion of choice; while being prodded to “choose of his own volition’ the less rotted tomato.
I get all of this; I really do. But I cannot not vote when AOC, et al, are the beneficiaries. It has gotten that bad.
“The election mattered.”
Yes it did.
I’d proffer that all elections matter. From electing the local dog catcher to the president.
This, kemosabe, is why people take steps to make sure of the results of those elections are to their liking BEFORE Election Day.
When things matter, the people in charge generally make sure the desired results are forthcoming.
Got that right Tuanorea, it was either H.L. Mencken or Mark Twain who said “if elections made a difference they wouldn’t allow them”.
One day, for whatever reason, in a good faith attempt to do the RIGHT thing, Eric, you said those fateful words…”I do”…and then you were DONE. If you still have a roof over your head, enough of a ride to get back and forth to work, and you gonads still attached, be GRATEFUL…you’d be surprised how many “family” courts will ensure that a man, in the divorce process, is made bereft of all THREE!
Jeremy and Eric,
In preparation for the upcoming Martin Scorsese movie, The Irishman, I’ve been reading “I HEAR YOU PAINT HOUSES”, about the last ride of Jimmy Hoffa.
My uncle lived off of Franklin Road by Wing Lake, so the Red Fox was a place we frequented with some regularity. In fact, my sister was getting her hair done next to Roz & Sherm’s when Jimmy took his last ride.
In the book I’m reading, Frank Sheeran is talking about the JFK/Nixon election. Jimmy and Sam Giancana were debating whether or not the Teamsters should get behind Kennedy.
Sheeran says, “And here they were talking about whether the Chicago outfit should or should not fix a presidential election. Growing up wherever you grew up you knew the local elections were fixed. You knew the local Philly elections or whatever were fixed, but this was something, and this high-level talk was all going on right in front of me.”
The Teamsters were the only union to support Nixon in 1960. For Christmas 1971, Nixon pardoned Hoffa and the Teamsters again backed Nixon in his 1972 re-election.
Jeremy I know you’re a bit younger than me but are you old enough to remember when cars in Detroit were still sporting the “Where’s Jimmy Hoffa Call (313) 962-7297“ bumper stickers?
How about you Eric?
The last one I saw was in 1990, on a Duce and a quarter southbound on the Lodge at 7 mile.
Time flies, or as Eric puts it, tempus Fugit.
“Jeremy I know you’re a bit younger than me but are you old enough to remember when cars in Detroit were still sporting the “Where’s Jimmy Hoffa Call (313) 962-7297“ bumper stickers?”
I was old enough, just not aware. I was a teenager in the early eighties. I didn’t care about politics or current events. I fit equally well into the punk rock crowd and the “normie” crowd. So, on weekends I’d head to the lake with my normie buddy for sailing or sneak into the back end of the North Course at Oakland Hills for a little illegal golf. They allowed prep school teams to use the course for practice so we just donned preppy attire, drove to a hidden spot on a street near the back of the course, and jumped the fence. We did this all through high school and never got caught.
Evenings I’d head downtown with the punk rock crowd for shows at St. Andrews, the Freezer theater, a few pop-up underground clubs, etc… Thursday night clubbing at Todd’s, a notorious gay bar, that became a hangout for the punk rockers because of the music the Thursday night DJ played, for $1.00 LaBatt’s and dancing. Always had to remember to keep a few bucks for $1.00 Coneys at a place near Todd’s that we hit around 2 AM.
Anyway, you get the idea, I was old enough but my interests were a little different back then.
I’m old enough, too!
In ’72, I had a Nixon bumper sticker on my bicycle (I was 10)….but I never saw one of those Hoffa stickers either; had never even heard of them before now- and I was aware of Jimmy Hoffa, even at that age…..
The first Decider I have memories of is Jimmy Carter. I can remember watching his inauguration on TV with my parents in our house in Northern Va.
I remember Jimmy Carter. I voted for him, since I was from a family of traditional Democrats, and never actually THOUGHT of voting any other way. I began paying attention to politics for some reason, and was shocked to find that Jimmy Carter was so weak and DID EVERYTHING SO WRONG. I came to hate everything that he did and everything he said. In 1980 and 1984, I voted Libertarian. Looking back, I have to say that Ronald Reagan turned out to be a good president, even though I never voted for him and he made some big mistakes. I disagreed with him often. But I haven’t liked any president since Reagan until Trump came along. Maybe because they both were NOT POLITICIANS.
Yep, Jimmy Carter is the reason that I am no longer a democrat.
I used to feel the same way about Carter, but over the years, he has grown on me. He was, by far, the least belligerent and murderous president of my lifetime and not as incompetent as he has been portrayed. Much of the deregulation that helped create Reagan’s “new economy”, began under Carter.
Also, there is evidence that Reagan conspired with Khomeini to delay the release of the hostages until after the election. Carter was negotiating with the newly elected president of Iran who won in a landslide despite (or because of) his promise to release the hostages being a central campaign point. Much of Carters’s reputation for incompetence stems from this.
He is also the only president who did something that directly improved my quality of life. In 1977 he legalized home-brewing. Fifteen years later, I became an avid home brewer. This action also paved the way for the vibrant beer culture that now exists. in the early days of the brewpub revolution, all of them were founded by home brewers. Back in the 70’s, there was no beer culture and the environment was pale and weak.
Finally, I think he is the only president with the vestigial remains of a conscience. I can’t back this up, but I suspect that his assiduous humanitarian work is done as atonement for sins. I believe he was truly appalled when he discovered what president’s really have to do.
Look, he’s still a politician and doesn’t see the immorality of coercive collectivism. But, compared to any of the others in my lifetime, he stacks up well.
Oops, I mean Hi Nathan.
“but I never saw one of those Hoffa stickers either”
I’m starting to wonder if you were the one who whacked old Jimmy. 🧐
One thing is for sure, some Eye-talian did!
Seriously, they say he’s buried under The Meadowlands in Jersey…..
You didn’t use the hole in the fence on Lahser?
By all the sand?
No, we parked on a side street, can’t remember the name, because there was an area of the fence that was overgrown such that the car couldn’t be seen from the course.
Tuanorea, you gave me an whimsical idea…get a surplus M35 truck, known to have served in the Italian Army (though by definition it’d be a post-war vehicle, nothing that would have served under Graziani or that general with the flaming beard nicknamed “Electric Whiskers”), fix it up with a few performance “goodies”, and paint it with Italian Army livery, nicknaming it “Il Duce’s Deuce (and a Half), with cartoon images of ol’ Benito all over it. If nothing else, this rig would put some pussy-hat wearing feminazi twit in hysterical fits, so it’d be worth the effort.
““Il Duce’s Deuce (and a Half), with cartoon images of ol’ Benito all over it. If nothing else, this rig would put some pussy-hat wearing feminazi twit in hysterical fits, so it’d be worth the effort.”
You could just get an old Electra 225 with dual exhaust and a decal on the back of the trunk that say, “Fuck Carbon Credits.”
Same results with a better ride.
I love that idea Tu. When I get another OLD diesel pickup, (I always make custom bumpers)I’ll cut that into the bumper and do it in a script it will take some time to read. I may be old but I still have a good torch hand.
A pre-1976 Electra with the 455, or, go really RETRO and get a 425 Nailhead backed up by a Dyanflow gearbox? And if the rear leaf springs SAG a little…DON’T fix ’em!
I read this book once, about the whereabouts of Hoffa. Seems in all the pictures, he was always wearing a red & white striped shirt. Well, they didn’t actually say it was Hoffa- but from the clues, you could draw the inevitable conclusion…
You should check-out that book sometime- for some reason, it was called “Where’s Waldo?”.
Did you see the movie about Hoffa staring Nicholson? I thought it was very well-done. The final scene especially.
The Mob knew how to take out the garbage!
See it? I never even heard of it! I’ll have to look into that- might be a good DVD for my mother- usually Nicholson movies are decent (I’ve seen Cuckoo’s Nest and As Good As It Gets….and it’s rare for me to see movies that are so modern!)
“You should check-out that book sometime- for some reason, it was called “Where’s Waldo?”.”
Voters do not elect a “President” they elect a dictator. I guess some believe Trump is a benevolent dictator. All “Presidents” ignore their oath of office, what does that make them?
Tenth Amendment: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Yes, of course; no argument. And Trump isn’t benevolent. But what is the alternative? I mentioned Lenin in an earlier reply. Let’s consider the early days of the Russian Revolution. What if the Mensheviks/Russian “whites” had been able to defeat Lenin before that mass murdering psychopathic fanatic had secured his power? Possibly, tens of millions of people who were murdered by the Soviet regime he created would not have been. The government created by the Mensheviks/”whites” would not have been “free” – but it would not have been mass-murderous/totalitarian. Just authoritarian.
That is the choice we are facing. What we have today – a government that taxes and controls us but still allows us a degree of autonomy – vs. a totally controlled system in which we have no autonomy whatsoever and possibly no longer our lives.
The dead win no battles.
Bernie, AOC and the current Left… these are fanatics and thus dangerous ( potentially mass-murderous) people. Trump is no Libertarian but he is a bulwark against this and therefore has my support.
Eric, this is sad.
This is how they suck people in to participating. Heck, even Slick Willy did some good (Cutting welfare, etc.). But when you vote for these pricks, you are giving your assent to all that they do, and enabling their lies and treason.
The gun-grabber Trump appointed to head the ATF just reclassified what constitues a “pistol”; restricting even more usable guns from civilian ownership. He’s given yet MORE money (Your money) to local “law enforcement” under the guise of ‘fighting illegal immigration’ (including in places where there are no illegal immigrants; and where local law enfarcement is powerless to do anything it anyway…) while he does NOTHING to secure our borders.
The car fatwa? Who even knew when voting that he’d do that? It was just a fluke, which likely would have been temporarily done by anyone in the office to try and prop-up the dying US auto industry. What about the >100 campaign promises he broke?
So he throws us a few bones…as they ALL do….but he’s throwing even more bones to the Neocons, Dems, and all statists.
Maybe it would have better if Hitlery had won; ’cause then, the bread & butter Trump supporters of fly-overr country might have started growing a pair and resisting at least a little. The long they are pacified by someone who talks the talk, but who doesn’t walk the walk, the less they will be able to do if they ever truly get to the point where they have had enough- because what littlew remains of our rights will be totally gone as they sit back and do nothing because “their guy” is in, and his words pacify them.
So he temporarily rescinded one (of many) fatwas- which in the scheme of things, will not make much difference at all; and he staved-off the Obozocare fine, for now. Meanwhile further eroding our ability to maintain any semblance of personal freedom, but installing gun-grabbers and building up the police and military to new highs…..which is far more detrimental.
See? You talk like a statist, and look at some of the comments now- people griping “the blood of our boys[mercenaries] being spilled because of their refusal to resist participation in unconstitutional activities for the state.
C’mon, man! You’re one of the finest Libertarians (and people in general) I’ve ever encountered. It pains me that you would give your assent to the most statist thing one can do. What little power we have, is that of resistance and non-participation/non-cooperation.
Helping to empower the lesser evil; to give one’s assent to statism and tyranny, just because he may inadvertently throw us a few measly scraps which may benefit us in some tiny way, is nothing more than what the typical statist does. I personally tend to favor the conservatives myself, but I’ll be damned if I’ll vote for them, when their agenda is just as much to increase the power, scope and size of government [The Donald has spent even more than Obozo…and GWB], just because he spews a few words which are designed to pacify us, while doing the very things we diametrically opose.
A vote is nothing more than an affirmation that one believes lies- and then, like buying a lottery ticket, hopes that maybe they’ll win a free ticket or $1 [that their candidate will manage to do one or two minor acts that aren’t evil and against our interests]
I understand everything you’ve written; at the same time, consider that Trump is different. A Libertarian? Far from! But he is upsetting the status quo – in many ways, in our favor.
I mentioned Lenin’s lessons in an earlier post. Consider how the Bolsheviks – the minority – came to power. They outmaneuvered the Mensheviks (who were the majority) by leveraging every tactical victory to obtain a strategic one.
Trump has forced the Left and the status quo Right to unmask themselves. This is invaluable from an ideological point of view. He is driving the Left to paroxysms of open stupidity – again, hugely important and valuable. And he has probably destroyed the “mainstream” Republican Party, which is on the way to becoming the Whig Party of our time.
All the evils you describe would without question have been more so had Hillary – or JeB! – become Decider.
Put another way, if I am in a position to pull two kids out of a burning car but can’t get the third, I will get the two rather than not try to get any.
We are in between a rock and a hard place. I am not voting “for” anything except less tyranny – to the extent this is still feasible.
Orange Man could be a John the Baptist figure. Of course, I understand that what comes next could be worse. But right now, OM is without question better than what we almost got!
Forgot all about Jeb!
I remember thinking at the time anyone who knows anything knows not to run for president going into a recession. Carter and Bush the first come to mind. The career politicians were positioning themselves for a run in a post-Hillary 2020 run, “knowing” that the recession was eminent. Trump and Sanders were just too stupid to know the difference, or smelled the blood in the water from Hillary’s weaknesses.
For sure, Eric. At this point, I am voting to reelect OM. I appreciate his work on tariffs and the fuel economy issue. Just read that Biden and other Demagogues are ahead in the polls. How is what I ask. I just don’t understand and have nothing but contempt for those who would vote a D back into office. I’m not partisan, but they have forced the issue. That party is terrible for automotive concerns. Rs are no better, but at least they didn’t directlystate that they want us out of our cars.
Don’t believe those polls. Remember: In 2016 we were assured she was inevitable. I suspect OM’s actual support is much higher-than-advertised.
He is worth supporting even if only to push the Left off the cliff!
Eric, guys – I like OM – simply because of his ability to wind up the left…. its brilliant…. given all politicians will run the country into the ground one way or another…. its better to have one who is fun to watch!!! (ok sorry to be too negative, but like many of you I think there is little of substance to actually like OM for…. though perhaps eric you do have a point that he may allow us to enjoy good cars for a few years longer)…. And yes he may have somehow avoided war so far – but WHY has he surrounded himself with such warmongers!! why is he still so active in matters in the middle east when theres plenty of work to be done at him!!
In re warmongers: Because he has to. I spent a decade working in DC as a journalist; I caught glimpses of who really runs the country. If OM makes the mistake Kennedy made – of overtly showing signs he opposed War All The Time – he would meet his very own Lee Harvey Oswald.
The guy is doing marvelous work given the constraints he must labor under.
To those who are unhappy about the situation: Can you imagine how much worse it would be had she won?
This point is inarguable.
True Eric; so what is the point in voting? The same agendas continue, regardless of who the figurehead is. The show they put on is just different, and appeals to a different audience.
I Love Lucy or Beavis & Butthead.
Self-preservation – to the degree feasible.
Voting for Orange Man helped save me several thousand dollars in “share responsibility” Obamacare fines alone. As well as possible Hut! Hut Hutting! for not paying them. This is a net positive for me that violates no else’s rights.
He has also saved every American what almost certainly have bee yuge increases in “carbon taxes” to fight “climate change.”
Has he done – and said – questionable (even evil) things. Yes, absolutely. But there is no question the alternative would have been far worse on the whole. Clinton was the one – along with her husband – who set in motion the Hut! Hut! Hut! state we live in; Trump at least has dialed down the actual Hut! Hut! Hutting; he is pro-legalization, for one thing. And he opposes criminalizing people for not “signing up” for Obamacare.
He is far from perfect – and to expect/demand it is silly. We have to work with things as they are – without losing sight of how things should be.
eric, now I remember what OM said that I really liked. He described the Federal Reserve to a T. He made no bones about it being what it was. I think I read this yesterday in LRC. Well, he’ll get my vote for no other reason than what the Fugs said back in the mid 60’s. River of shit, river of shit, roll on, roll on, river of shit.
What’s sad is that here in Calipornia, likely whether I vote for OM next year won’t matter. Even without the blatant voter fraud, it’s gotten so “blue” in the once “Golden” State that no one bothers to campaign whatsoever. Typically, by the time of our June primary, it’s all over anyway. All I could do last time around was cast my vote for Gary Jonson, inflate his gaudy but meaningless popular vote tally, and hope that he got any electoral votes and would force the election into the House of Representatives. We all know how that turned out.
Most of this hysterical anti-Trump nonsense, appropriately labelled Trump DERANGEMENT Syndrome, is but a hysterical way to rally the hard-core leftists, as they’ve realized they’ve lost the center and/or the “moderates”, whom may not vote for Trump but instead will likely just stay home. Where Trump has really been stymied is within his own party, even by self-professed “conservatives”. Bad enough that a grand opportunity presented itself, and these RINOs, Republicunts, and Cuckservatives, angry at OM for “crashing” THEIR Party, continue to play these petty games. They’ve shown OM that there’s only so much he can do. I’m fairly sure that unlike what happened on March 30, 1981, THIS time they’d pick someone who could actually shoot straight and wouldn’t be obsessed with Miley Cyrus! OM is only still above room temperature because he has “played ball”, else, he’s worm food. Likewise I’m sure that IF things went awry and the PTB, aka the “Swamp”, were in danger of being tossed from Washington, they’d disavow the elections or come up with some other excuse to retain power.
It doesn’t matter. Two sides of the same coin. Notice how the taxpayer money keeps flowing to Tesla regardless of who is “in”?
And now we’re gonna get 15% ethanol in our gas, as if 10% wasn’t bad enouigh. Is 15% ethanol somehow better when Trump mandates it?
The political wranglings and supposed dichotomy between the right and left are nothing more than a show, to pacify and distract. In the end, the purposes of those who really run this country always get achieved, as the people sit back and say “Wait till next time! We’ll show ’em at the polls!”.
The military-industrial complex is given more money than ever- as is law enfarcement; and Hitlery and Epstein walk free or get a slap on the wrist, while Assange rots.
This is what you voted for.
Hitler or Stalin- when there is no real choice, elections are meaningless.
Good point on the ethanol. And, no it isn’t. But for the reasons that Eric states, it could have been measurably worse had hitlery won.
I think a lot of people who can afford it buy diesel because of a better fuel and longevity. I certainly would if I could. I loved my diesel pickup. It was that off idle torque and the thriftiness(6.5 Turbo Diesel) I loved.
“In the end, the purposes of those who really run this country always get achieved, as the people sit back and say “Wait till next time! We’ll show ’em at the polls!”.”
My favorite is “We’ll fight this all the way to the Supreme Court!”
But I don’t think they are doing much in the way of sitting back waiting for the next election or court date Nunzio.
In the meantime, they are figuratively (and sometimes literally) assuming the role of Ned Beatty in Deliverance as they wait for their next precious election.
In case you haven’t seen Deliverance Nunzio – https://youtu.be/OBZC93gMXD4
Sure, some of them will squeal a little bit, but most will be content with choosing the flavor of the condom used in their sodomisation.
I think we are living in pre-revolutionary times; that pressures are building now which will find an outlet. Orange Man has catalyzed things; one of the things he has done which is of incalculable value is to mock the pieties of the Left. It drives them literally insane with fury that he says the things he does and never apologizes. This encourages more ordinary people to mock the pieties, too.
Put another way: While I would love for America to be a free country again, or even a freer one, I’ll be on the side of anyone who is trying to make it at as free as it was as recently as 1990 – when you could at least still speak your mind without fear of being professionally and personally ruined because you “offended” some protected victim class.
That was the thing I most liked about Trump from early on in his campaign. He spoke his mind, and didn’t care who didn’t like it.
Too bad much of it was just an act though, designed to win over those who might not otherwise vote. (Remember the “Send her to jail” rhetoric? How’s that working out! The Bitch could easily be convicted of massive fraud and even treason….but Trump does NOTHING! -Such a shame.)
I think that offends me more than anything: When someone knoiws what is the right thing to do, and even proclaims it, and promises to do it- and the doesn’t.
May as well just have the opposition, whom you never expect to do the right thing.
My point exactly, Tu!
And you can really see it illustrated very well and very clearly at the local level in small towns.
For instance: In the town which is the county seat here- a town of 1500 people- the town administration had been in power for several election cycles. A few years ago, the sneakily enticed an animal rendering plant to locate in their town- having made conditions favorable for that bidness with many infrastructure upgrades, etc. at local taxpayer expense (No telling how much $$$ the polls made on kickbacks; land deals; lucrative contracts for businesswes they have a hand in, etc.)- They couirted the rendering plant very stealthily, so as to avoid local opposition- which, in such a small town, can actually accomplish quite a bit.
When the reality hit the public- it was too late to do anything. Now the once-nice little town is dying, because of the smell created by the plant, and what people haven’t left, are stuck, because their property is now worthless.
So of course, the reaction was “We’ll vote them out of office”- which they did- after the fortunes were made…..and now a new administration is in, and of course, they’re doing the same thing as the old- always proposing schemes for prosperity, which not only have never worked, but which actually further destroy the town, as the rendering plant fiasco has- and of course, once the public realizes their next promised dream has been crushed, it’ll be the same old “We’ll vote them out of office!”- rinse and repeat…. well, not for long, in that town anyway, as that town is just about done now. Even the Save-A-Lot closed up.
Sad thing is, I warned the locals, on a local forum, of exactly what would happen- but they didn’t want to hear it; they want to hear some douche promising them prosperity by bringing in a few minimum-wage jobs…just as they’d rather hear someone tell them that their lottery ticket could be a winner, rather than someone telling them to save their money by not paying the stupid-tax.
Now where are they gonna get their 5-gallon buckets of lard, now that Save-A-Lot is gone?!
Whelp…I do have to admit that I was quite happy when Orange Kool-Aid won…..but that joy didn’t last long. OM isn’t exposing anyone; they are exposing themselves. He is exposing himself though (Probably as much literally as figuratively! 😉 😀 ).
Even though he never made any pretensions of being a Libertarian, if he at least would have just done the things he talked about while campaigning (or even half of them!), he would really have accomplished something, and we’d be the better for it, and I’d be praising him; but instead (and it should be obvious by now) he just said what he had to, to lure-in people who were disenchanted wsith the ‘traditional candidates, to get their votes, and then proceeded to do 99% of the same things those other candidates would have done.
And the march of tyranny and government expansion, and the welfare-warfare state continues unabated. I agree with you- the idea of Hitlery or Bush III or Mittens is absolutely repulsive- but really- the only thing different with Trump is the words he uses, and the people whom he caters his messages to.
A gun-grabber or military builder or warmonger is the same, whether appointed by the Clinton Bitch or Mittens or Donald. [BTW: I will forever be in your debt for that ‘Mittens’ moniker!]
And Eric? I hope that you do know, that in discussing this, I am not condemning you for voting- and certainly not for picking the Donald (The ONLY viable choice, is one were going to vote)- I am just trying to point out the futility of doing so- and how such is really at cross purposes for us, who know the true nature of the Beast. (And I’m doing a very poor job of it! 🙂 )
If only Bevin were here!
Just remember: When we vote, we are responsible, and we lose our right to complain.
Hey Nunz, I don’t waste my time voting anymore but I have to admit I had high hopes for the Trumpster, at least as a candidate he made a lot of sense. Why does NATO still exist, long past its expiration date, why do we still have troops in the shittle east, etc. I know the answer, but was hoping he could shake the warmongers up a bit. Sigh…..fool me once, shame on you; fool me yet again, shame on me.
the ‘funny’ thing about afghanistan is we cant even control the road to the kabul airport. Everyone uses helicopters back and forward. the unfunny thing is that good Americans are still dying in that shithole. What a clusterfuck.
I too had a least a shred of hope when the uncouth boor was running (But started losing it as soon as picked Pense)- He at least said some good things, which would have helped a little if he had done them- but of course, once he won, he either completely forgot about those words, or proceeded to do the very opposite.
What REALLY ruffles my feathers, is that 2nd Amendment supporters likely were the ones responsible for his win; they came out and voted, whereas they would have been disinterested otherwise…..and then the prick turns around and turns out to be THE most destructive-to-the-2nd-Amendment president ever!
I do believe because of that, a lot of those voters who came out for him, are going to stay home this time. After all, what does it matter, when the one who courts gun owners ends up doing more harm than any Democrat ever did; and does the same as what the D’s likely will do if they get in- or will at least compromise even more with them if he wins again?
As always., we have no choice. So why vote?
Hi Nunz – I think youve hit the nail on the head. The way the whole political system in the west works is every few years they throw a particular group a bone to pacify and calm them down…. this time it was the white dude in flyover Americas turn hence Orange Man…. but in the end whoever is in power continues down the same route…. and the ones really calling the shots – well we probably dont even know their names (let alone see their faces)….
I agree with you… in general. But I think OM is truly a “black swan.” Not a Libertarian swan, to be sure. But a kind of John the Baptist figure in many ways. I don’t think he is ideological. I do think he is transformative. I think he is the catalyst which will line up the dissolution of the United States as a unitary state – and that is something well worth supporting.
And it’s really very diabolical- because, as we keep seeing over and over again, when ‘one of their own’ does it to them, they take it quietly. If a Democrat had appointed the current gun-grabber to the ATF, or a deep-state sweetheart judge (Kavanaugh) to the Supreme Court; or mandated increasing the ethanol content of gas to 15%, or had bombed Syria, the very same people who take it quietly when Trump does it, would be screaming- and rightly so. But when the guy they voted for does it….well, hush hush…. “just ignore those things, because he did one or two tinyt little things over here that we like, but which in the scheme of things, don’t amount to a hill of beans, nor in any way preserve our liberty.
Just remember if the police shoot you in the back or a US soldier executes a teenager in cold blood they both have Trumps full support. no thinking required.
Exactly, M3. And in-fact, thanks to the highest military and police spending (and continued militarization of the pigs) under Trump, one is more likely to be shot by a gov’t mercenary than ever. Not that this wouldn’t have happened just the same had anyone else been elected- surely it would have- but the thing is, there is no difference, no matter who one votes for; and Trump did not do anything to mitigate these conditions, but rather has exacerbated them, just as Hitlery surely would have.
They have the vast majority of rest of America’s full support as well. That’s the problem.
This mundane agrees: El Jefe Naranjo is not the best by a long shot.
But he’s a long shot better than the alternatives.
If nothing else, he has exposed the enemies of liberty and the Republic in all their fuming, spitting, fury and has made them collectively, utterly lose their minds.
Not wanting to hijack a thread but if anyone has an hour to burn here is a good video by Col. Bo Gritz who did some ‘work’ for Ross Perot on behalf of the POW’s the pentagon left behind and governments involvement in the drug business. Of course all allegations are denied by government and (of course) it insinuates Perot and Gritz are looneys…… you decide….
Ken, thanks for reminding me. I got halfway through it this morning. Now if you could take over the TV stations as done in V for Vendetta, it might get the sheeples attention if you showed that. I predict it would get enough attention to stir things up quite a bit and change a few things.
I doubt it…. 🙂
I found it on Lee Rockwell’s site. If you already posted it, my apologies…. 🙁
not to mention letting assange and manning rot in jail. trump’s a disgusting coward.
Trump has done nothing. not a thing. Illegals pour across the border at a record pace. theres no fucking wall. At all. He gave that up in his first budget two ears ago. yet another US soldier just lost his life in Afghanistan yesterday. we’re still in syria and why? 3 US soldiers were killed there two months ago. He jumps on the gun control bandwagon just like any liberal after some bullshit shooting. we’re about to start a completely unnecessary war with a peaceful country. we support the repulsive saudis. He sure does suck jew dick though. really good at that. Who cares about irrelevant CAFE differences. Trump is a clown and an embarrassment. I honestly wish Hilary had won.
If Hillary would have won, it would’ve been the end of what’s left of our constitutional republic. President Trump is only one man who’s up against his own party, the traitor party and a judiciary gone mad. And as far as the “Jew” comment is concerned, it is uncalled for.
Allen I want you to wrap your hands around this. Can you imagine a young soldier in his twenties with his life fading out of you in fucking afghanistan? Can you imagine how you would feel. our whole fucking life is in front of you and now theres fucking nothing. Can you imagine what that poor guy was thinking you heartless bitc. or his family
I get this – but bear in mind Trump isn’t perfect and the system he must work within is far from perfect. What are our options? Refuse to support someone who is vastly more in our camp – and perhaps gain some ground – or refuse to support anything less than absolute perfection?
It’s a tough and serious question.
One does not have to abandon one’s principles to accept – and support – imperfect but better politics that tend in the direction of one’s principles.
How many more wars would this country currently be involved in had Jeb! won? Let alone… her.
Some inside baseball (based on friends of friends of mine): Trump has to rattle sabres – otherwise he’d get JFK’d. But note that he has mostly just rattled them. No invasion of Syria or Iran.
Had Jeb! (or her) won, do you doubt the U.S. would have gone full “regime change” on both those countries?
Before OM, i always voted third party because of principle and also there was no discernible difference between the Dems and the Repukes in every election since 1988. 2016 was the first election that there was a real choice. That’s why I went that direction. On the other hand, most Republicans are reprehensible.
Lemme fix that for ya, Swampy:
“Most politicians are reprehensible”.
All Democrats are, that’s for sure.
And a great number of Republicans such as Mitch McConnell, light loafered Lindsay Graham and the late John “songbird” McCain.
The Republicans have nothing to crow about in terms of protecting liberty.
Do you play the lottery?
Many people say that if you don’t play, you can’t win.
I say the lottery is a tax on people who do poorly with math.
And I say that participating in an election is a tax on those who do poorly with an understanding four fairly simple words.
SANCTION OF THE VICTIM
You might like The Kingdom of Moltz.
The Kindom of Moltz
Me, play the lottery? LOL! Do I look stupid? 😮
Even if it were a reasonable deal, I would not want to win a large sum of money- nothing would ruin one’s life faster.
I have no desire for wealth. (No wonder the system hates people like me: Can’t tempt me with wealth, sex or power…I’m virtually incorruptible!)
I watched many Americans die bleeding out on the chopper ride back to the hospital when we had medivac duty. I still see the frightened look as they stare at me while dying. Then taking a 5 gallon bucket of water to wash out the spilled blood. I hope no one ever has to see what I saw but for some inexplicable reason we keep going to war.
OM could not have rounded up a more warmongering cabinet then what he has today. I am so saddened that he has not extracted us from these useless wars.
Taking a serious look at what we have for choices is scary. We don’t have any more Ross Perot’s. We don’t have a American version of Vladimir Putin to save us.
I hope Eric is right that this guy will somehow turn it around,,, I just don’t see how he can given the present situation….
Mark, you’re right about much of what you say. I have one quote I couldn’t help but memorize after the false flag even in Las Vegas. Trump said “I say we take the guns and worry about due process later.” Does this sound like a guy who gives a shit about the Constitution?
He’s been bailed out by govt. more than once and has used illegal influence to take countless people’s homes from them under the guise of improving the economy(his and his only)via eminent domain.
30 years ago one of the large media mouths did a show about Trump when everyone considered him just another Mafia member. This was back when, every now and then, and only if they didn’t speak of one of the then controllers, they’d do an expose on some scumbag. One was done on Trump and they showed large areas of homes and spoke with many of the former owners, mostly retired and not even remotely wealthy, who had their homes taken by eminent domain so Trump could build some load of shit stacked higher and higher. He’s an elitist and has been all his life.
As far as his relationship with the warmongering Zionists in Israel, he’s right up there with the worst. His trip there and visiting with Netanyahu showed photos of him looking like he’d loved to give old Bibi a reach-around.
And yes, we’d probably already be fighting in the streets had Hitlery won. And considering those who would run against him, I’ll likely hold my nose and vote for him. Cue the Fugs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVfrt2JlLTw
He was not bailed out by the government. he was bailed out by the Russian/kazarian mafia.
Its not frightened its pure fucking terror. been there twice in my life. Not shot thank god. why are keeping our good soldiers in these places? It makes no sense.
Dangerous History Podcast Ep. 0182: Cathal Nolan on the Allure of Battle
Worth a listen. Dr Nolan wrote an 800 page treatise attempting to that question. Much of it has to do historians continuously passing on myths of war and with passing on of war generations. Once the people who never fought get in power they tend to believe the myths of war instead of the real story. Remember that every war starts with the anticipation of a quick resolution, but reality NEVER bares this out, for reasons obvious to anyone who spends 30 seconds looking at the war from the opponent’s perspective.
Because Israhell told us to do so.
Just remember,Israhell will fight to the last American.
‘m sure you saw a lot of crying and asking for their mom. i can only imagine.
Even if Trump were the “ideal” Libertarian, there is no chance – none – he could have undone 150-plus years of creeping tyranny in the space of less than three years. What he has achieved is frankly remarkable. The Orange Man has my support!
This is simply not true. Correct me if I am wrong, but:
Trump has pulled the U.S. out of the Paris Climate Agreement.
Trump has openly “denied” the Climate Change Religion.
Trump has openly criticized Open Borders.
He rescinded the ObamaCare “shared responsibility” fine.
He hasn’t appointed leftists to the Supreme Court.
None of these would have happened had she won.
And now he has rescinded a fatwa that would have massively increased the cost of new cars and accelerated the bum’s rush to electric cars.
He’s just one man – and he’s done more to undermine/puncture some of the worst orthodoxies that have enabled some of the most loathsome tyrannies than any other president since Taft or Coolidge.
I support Orange Man.
Give him four more years!
There is no doubt in my mind that OM will probably win by a landslide considering the trash they have running against him. No worries there UNLESS he is take out or drops out like Perot did in 1992 after threats to him and his family were made. That is the real threat.
Hi Ken there is no guarantee of that with the rapid demographic change which Trump has done zero to stop. I think frigging goofball biden leads him by 9 points right now. Just think of elizabeth warren as resident.
Trump has been so maligned in the press to the point saying you support Trump is like a fart in church. No one is going to admit they’re going to vote for Trump. Heck, no one was going to vote for him the last time either, yet he’s in the Oval Office.
Polling is extremely selective in who and where they conduct these polls. And I have a feeling news outlets buy the polls that support their findings, not the other way around. For sure they’re not going to report polling data that they don’t like. Remember Ron Paul in 2008, where they completely eliminated him from the polls even though he was polling higher than any other candidate after the Republican debates.
And remember, Hillary won the popular vote.
You forgot the JCOP. Which he did so because of his hatred for Obama.
He ordered Jerusalem to be the capitol of Israhell. He has given everything the zios wanted and more. To steal more land from the Palestinians, to arm Pisrael with more weapons. Selling more weapons to one of the worst violators of humans rights, Fraudi Arabia…..$10 billion worth of bone saws.
The truth is tRump is an Israeli stooge. His little zionist, Israel first son -in law should be run out of the white House and while we’re on that topic, do you know what nepotism is?
Take a good look at tRump’s son in law.
Jesus K Rist!
The best president Israhell ever had.
“Make Israel Great Again”! 😉
If Hillary had won, we would have had much much more war – remember Libya? Trump isn’t the King. He can’t just close the border and build the wall all by himself. Trump is fighting the entire Washington DC system that relies on endless war and open borders – both GOP and Dem. I think that he has done everything he could and any of the Democrats would be 1000x worse.
1000X worse Democrats…..I can agree with that. I think many of us here would have never thought of voting for a Republican and probably many like me simply quit voting. I can’t stand Ted Cruz but last election I had to go to town….and that’s a drag in itself, and vote for him because of scum like Beto O’Rourke. To top that off, I got my feelings hurt by driving by an old couple’s place that were my parent’s friends that had a Beto sign out front. I’ll admit it was the only Beto sign I saw but still, wow, just wow. WTF is the world coming to?
Elections do matter. Trump and every constitutional non- democrat will have my vote! Virginia state elections are coming this year. I hope that all the readers of epautos that reside in Virginia will get themselves, family and friends out to vote this November! The thought of the socialist/communist/democrat party getting control of the state senate and general assembly sends chills down my spine!
I moved to VA from MD over a decade ago. It was very refreshing to live in a state whose politics was more aligned my own! Now, that is hanging on by a thread. I think in about 5yrs time, VA will be just like MD.
Setting unattainable Utopian fuel economy is not being optimistic, especially when force feeding shitty Gasahol that has measurably LESS BTUs per unit than Non-Ethanol gasoline. It’s an intentional “legal trap” to outmode public mobility, period. The goal is to rein-in and gather the general populace into concentrated suburbia where they are more easily intimidated and controlled. It’s “people farming” with the end result being a “harvest”. They are the pessimists who believe we will not, nor cannot share the future equally and responsibly. “Their” plan is not for us to succeed, beyond supporting their needs and those of their progeny.
Prosperity will no longer be what we decide to go out and earn, but will be limited to what they decide we deserve, so long as it does not impinge upon their prosperity. This is just a larger version of Regan’s “Trickle Down Economics”, the KEY word being “trickle”, where the masters get the lion’s share, and the servants get the scraps. Ironically, THEY are supposedly the servants, but have succeeded in turning the tables on those of us who actually PROVIDE goods, services, entertainment, transportation, and, ultimately, the freedom of OUR choices, not theirs.Their job was to keep the “pantry” organized and accessible, NOT under lock and key, only doling out what they see fit for us to use, as they are doing now. It is perpetual parenting to the point of hamstringing anyone who wishes to “leave home” and live as an independent, productive individual. I compare it to a group of 90-year-old invalid parents who guilt-trip, manipulate and emotionally terrorize their adult children for support, out of fear of abandonment. Funny how it “mirrors” the type of family social structure we have come to adopt nowadays, isn’t it? It’s no coincidence that parents constantly hover over their children 24/7, and children no longer strive for independence from the parental “feeding tube”. Fear is a powerful tool that is often as subtle as it is effective, just ask any Tyrant, past, present, or future.
And for those of you who believe my words are those of a “pessimist”, think again, because they are NOT. Fearfulness is a condition brought on by “training and conditioning”. Our NATURAL inclinations are to be curious, inquisitive, compassionate, bold & adventurous, productive, confident, and above all, independent AND responsible alike. It’s when we “vote” others to be responsible and make all the decisions for us, that we become passive, helpless and fearful, and I can tell you that I am NONE of those things. I am an optimist, because I believe society can CHOOSE to stop being “sheeple” and live as Free People!
“I believe society can CHOOSE to stop being “sheeple” and live as Free People!”
Then why hasn’t that happened?
Last time I checked, man has been on this planet for at least a week or two. You have an ETA for that free people thingy?
Can choose, and will choose, are 2 different things. Clearly the majority have not, whether or not they will, remains to be seen, I suppose.
‘Postponing’ this fatwa is a good thing but the delay will likely be short lived as soon as a different President is in office. Near term it’s good but long term it still looks bad. Most of the car companies have signed on to these fatwas for reasons unknown to me and many States are following California’s lead. All the States have to do is make their own fatwas and OM delay will be meaningless. And IMO the several States are no longer ‘inching’ to the left,,, their flat out running.
Elections matter?….. Maybe for some, but for me….. I see a zig zagging course but always in the same general direction.
Everything has been politicized. Manufacturing, Retail, Sports, Medicine, Insurance, Tech, you name it. Every time I held my nose and voted for the lesser of evil the country circled the bowl further down. So I stopped voting about ten years ago. Voting is giving your approval of the system. It is why they say we are governed by the consent of the people. Voting is that consent. I can no longer consent,,, the smell is too much.
This delaying of the CAFE fatwa is a good thing but it is only a small zig / zag while the destination is the same. Empire, Hegemony, Tyranny, Despotism…..
Lenin taught me something. Two things.
The first thing is – never give up.
The second thing is – take tactical victories when you can; do not reject a tactical victory because it’s not a strategic victory. One must win numerous tactical battles in order to win a strategic victory.
Orange Man is undermining the authoritarian left – and that is a yuge tactical victory.
You know who lost the Russian Revolution? It wasn’t the Tsar. It was the perfect-or-nothing Mensheviks and social Democrats. Lenin shivved them all by taking every advantage he could; he was not afraid to get his hands dirty.
We shouldn’t be, either.
LOL,,,You’re young man (compared to me ), Good to see all those positive vibes. I can remember when I too was positive. Problem is I got old and senile,,, some call it wisdom, some call it dementia. 🙂
The education system has destroyed the country. This is obvious no matter where you look. Depravity is everywhere. Today I read where a mother wants to change the sex of her 8 year old son in Texas,,, Red State Texas!
My “Republican” Governor is in Israel signing Florida legislation eviscerating the 1st amendment. Red Flag and other Federal/State/ Local laws have taken out the 2nd amendment. DUI checkpoints, Civil Asset Forfeiture and other laws taking out the 4th and 5th. The National Defense Authorization Act allowing the murder or incarceration of citizens at the discretion of the President destroying the 6th and 8th. The obscene use of the Commerce Clause was used to dispatch the 10th. The Gulag in Guantanamo vaporizes the 13th. The 14th misused to make illegal immigrants legal if born here, the confiscation of our work by means of the 16th and the end of the Republic envisioned by the founders by the 17th.
One President is alleged to call the Constitution a GD piece of paper,,, The present President said referring to checks and balances in the Constitution ” It’s a very rough system. It’s an archaic system,” Trump said. “It’s really a bad thing for the country””
All this pretty well cancels the Constitution and is why my attitude over the years towards the present system has tanked.
That said, Your positive attitude is refreshing especially considering you know how seriously bad it’s getting. I’m still reading your old posts and am impressed by your knowledge. You are light years ahead of me when I was your age.
You know,,, It was only 6% of the estimated population of the colonies that wanted change and started the revolt. Maybe your generation CAN make it better. If so,,, I only hope I can live long enough to see it.
The kid in Texas is 8 years old. His mom says he wants to be a girl. His dad says he’s a boy and likes it. The child says he wants to be a girl when he’s with his mom, and a boy when he’s with his dad. This is so wrong and so sad. All a child wants is to be loved.
The fatwa’s put upon the dad are not only un-Constitutional but illegal. Judges thinking they are the ultimate decider. Everybody knows it’s the shrub who is the “decider”. puke puke…..
Ken, 6% seems to be a popular number. Did you know back in the 80’s when Charlie Wilson weaponized the Taliban just to jack with the USSR, only 6% identified with the Taliban. The rest of the population were terrified by them. This is more of playing with a rattler. Choose your allies carefully.
6% of the population determined to get a thing done is evidently doable and has been for a long time.
From 2008 to 2012 the Libertarian went from .7% of the vote to 7%, not a bad gain. Independents gained greatly in Texas in the mid-term elections. Maybe the trend will continue. Consider if the Libertarian party had gained the same amount the next election…..70% would fairly much take it all. And don’t get me wrong, the big L is nothing like my little L but it’s closer than the Republocrats.
Yea,,,, Right on,,, Those sixes seem to be real popular! 😐
Thank you, Eric. I think I’m going to copy and paste this post for future use.
First let me say that I don’t think, as some libertarians do, that voting is immoral. It’s a personal choice and I don’t presume to condemn those who choose to vote, nor do I get angry at them. Unfortunately, the same tolerance is rarely extended toward non-voters. Democracy promotes short term thinking and the general attitude toward voting is a perfect illustration of such. I believe that you are correct that tactical victories matter but, in a Democracy, such victories are neither guaranteed nor likely to last long. Unless, of course, one is a Statist who considers the further empowerment of government to be a tactical victory; those we’re usually stuck with.
Ever since I became politically aware, I’ve noticed the following:
– every election is deemed “the most important of our lives”
– failure to vote, and vote correctly, will have dire consequences (note, both “sides” say this)
– the best result that ever happens is a slight reduction in the growth of government power
– no matter who wins, the government becomes more intrusive
– those who support alternative candidates or choose not to vote are vilified and blamed for whatever outcome occurs (note again, both “sides” say this)
– your particular vote is meaningless except for whatever value you place on it
Voting is a trap, it doesn’t limit government, it empowers it, as it provides the commodity politicians desire most, legitimacy. It is true that short term tactical victories can be achieved through voting, but it is also true that voting renders long term victory extremely unlikely or impossible. I don’t know what the answer is, but in my dreams I long for a day when nobody votes, I know it’s a fantasy but so is the idea that my vote matters. Anyway, I understand your choice and respect it. I just choose not to participate, not for fear of dirtying my hands or holding out for a “perfect” candidate, but because I believe that voting is counter productive in the long run.
I was thinking a little about voting over the weekend and it occurred to me the key element is… as often is the case – choice.
What choice do we have?
As a practical matter, we have the choice of the lesser of two evils. We are not free to choose no evil.
Therefore, since I cannot choose no evil, I choose less evil. If I can, for example, vote to not have my taxes raised (e.g., the “shared responsibility” payment) I will. I’d be foolish not to. I voted for Orange Man for this and other, similar reasons. My vote was essentially negative, in other words.
It does not mean I voted for the evil things Orange Man has done.
I hope, one day, to be free to choose no evil. And that one day, no one will be able to vote for anything evil.
Some will argue that I do have the choice; that by rejecting the greater and lesser evil I am choosing no evil. But this is risible, of a piece with faulting a condemned man for refusing to eat a last meal. We take what we can get. This is life.
It does not mean we abandon principles. It means we are under duress.
“As a practical matter, we have the choice of the lesser of two evils”.
I see it a little differently, I don’t believe you have a meaningful choice at all. You have the ability to cast a vote, which is merely an indication of a preference, and has no effect on the outcome of the election.
I understand all that you say but, it doesn’t alter the fact that voting is the means by which “we” grant legitimacy to the State. I do not mean this in a philosophical sense but as a practical reality. While I share Nunzio’s overall view on voting, I do not believe that casting a vote makes one responsible for the actions of government. In other words I don’t believe that you have consented to government by voting.
Voting is very strange, at an individual level it produces no effect at all, it is important only in the aggregate. No individual vote is decisive, which means that no individual can make a meaningful choice through voting. As such, it is irrational for any individual to care very much about voting. However, government cares very much about it, and tirelessly propagandizes against those who don’t vote and in favor of those who do. They have convinced many people that it is a civic duty and stress the demonstrably false assertion that “your vote matters”. It is remarkable really, to convince so many people that voting, which at an individual level has no effect at all, is actually one of the most sacred and meaningful choices they must make, is astonishing.
Finally, if voting can limit the power of the State, why is the entire political class, the court intellectuals and the subservient media so invested in getting you to do it?
I must disagree with you about one thing: one vote CAN make a difference. Did you know that our language was decided by one vote? It was ONE vote that made English our language rather than German. Ergo, one vote can make a difference.
That’s an urban legend:
Voting can make a difference mostly at the local level, perhaps at the state level. It rarely if ever makes a material difference with the feds, though I would agree we’d be in much worse shape with the openly-Communistic Democrats in charge.
Voting for OM has made a yuge difference. Had she won, at least two hard leftists would now be on the Supreme Court for the next 20-30 years.
Obamacare would be enshrined – and people like me who choose not to “participate” Hut! Hut! Hutted! for not “participating.”
The U.S. would be a party to the Paris Climate Agreement – and massive taxes would issue as well as massive new controls.
The 2016 election mattered a lot.
2020 will matter even more.
The fact that OM won has made a yuge difference, your vote had no effect at all, it didn’t “help” or change anything. One of the things I find so curious about voting is that it promotes fuzzy, emotional thinking. You are usually so precise with language and so rational, yet with the voting thing you routinely claim that your vote “helped”, it did not. Your vote has symbolic meaning to you, which is fine, but it had no effect on the election.
One vote can decide the outcome of a state election; this has actually happened. And that state election can decide the outcome of a national election.
I am not saying it was my vote – this time or any other time. But a single vote can make the difference.
I don’t like that we have to vote to defend out freedoms; and I hate that our freedoms can be voted away by others.
But the fact remains – which is why it is sometimes important to vote.
It was in 2016.
It will be in 2020.
“But a single vote can make the difference”.
At the local level, it is rare. At the State level, it is extremely rare and has never occurred in a presidential election and it never will. Three conditions must be met for your vote to count (if it is truly decided by one vote, then everyone’s vote for the winning candidate counts).
– you must live in a State with enough electoral college votes to swing the election
– absent your vote, the vote total is tied
– the margin of error must be zero
The first is likely, the second is so unlikely as to be essentially impossible, the third is impossible.
Look, I’m not trying to convince you not to vote, just to recognize that the “every vote counts” mantra is not only wrong but damaging to the prospects for liberty. It is Statist propaganda in in its’ most disingenuous form.
A rational and factual argument would be “I vote because it makes me feel good and I hope to inspire many other people to do likewise”.
Speaking of ‘pone vote’….funny story:
A while back, the local magistrate of the town closest to where i live, appeared at my gate. I wouldn’t have seen him (People are too lazy to get out of their cars and open the gate) ‘cept I was down there weedeating or something at the time.
I politely told him that I would not be voting, so no need to waste his time.
Few weeks later, I encounter the guy at the local gas station. Turns out, he lost by….ONE vote! LOL.
He wasn’t making it up, either- I looked up the election results in the paper after that encounter! [Town of c. 300 people]
(He had been the local mafistrate FOREVER….and was a nasty old coot!)
Let me try another tack. You clearly desire that OM get reelected (as do I). In pursuit of this end, you have been arguing in favor of voting, fine. But, the argument has been a combination of detailing the likely horrors of the narrowly averted Clinton presidency, the horrors associated with a future Dem presidency and the the good things that Trump has done, all fine there. But, none of that provides a reason why I, or any other particular individual, should vote. So, why should I vote? Your answer is that my vote can make the difference. This is a terrible argument and will not convince anyone philosophically opposed to voting.
However, there is an argument to be made. It could start with a question, “do you agree that OM, for all his flaws, is vastly better than any of the Dem candidates”. If the answer is yes, then a more persuasive argument could go like this. “If you wish that Trump win then you should not only vote for him, but declare it openly, to friends as well as those on the other side. You see, there exists a stigma about being a Trump supporter and anyone willing to bear the criticism and contempt may inspire others who feel the same way, but are afraid to speak out. In addition, you should encourage all of your like-minded friends to do likewise. Not because we believe that any single vote matters, but in the hopes that we will inspire enough other people to vote as well”.
I’m not sure what we’re arguing about here!
The outcome of an election is decided by those who vote. Individuals vote. I get that in a nation of 330-plus million people a single individual’s vote is almost literally like a grain of sand at the beach.
But it is of such grains that the beach is made, eh?
My point is that each individual vote does matter because individual votes add up.
When an election is between a Jeb! and Hillary I agree that voting is largely pointless. But when an election of someone like Trump can prevent the election of someone like Hillary then voting matters a great deal.
One more observation. Imagine I’m sitting at the bar in my local pub. There’s the usual combination of regulars and strangers. Inevitably the 2020 election comes up. I face three choices:
– avoid the conversation and keep quiet about the fact that I’m going to vote for Trump, for fear of ostracism (I live in Santa Fe, NM so this is a real concern)
– enter the conversation by asking which people intend to vote and then make a case for voting for Trump, while knowing that I will not vote
– enter the conversation by asking which people intend to vote and then make a case for voting for Trump, while knowing that I will vote
Which choice is more likely to produce a positive effect? This is sort of a trick question; scenario one produces no effect, scenarios two and three produce the same effect.
For me, this is not hypothetical. It occurred many times in the lead up to the 2016 election. Of course, I chose scenario two each time. Yes, it was uncomfortable, many of the regulars got mad at me, I tried to be calm and mostly succeeded. A few of the regulars agreed with me and made that clear, which is important because they usually keep it secret in “mixed” company. A few of the strangers would always get involved and, surprisingly, most revealed themselves as Trump supporters.
It matters because this statement is false:
“My point is that each individual vote does matter because individual votes add up”.
The second clause is true, the first is not.
My vote will never “matter” in a presidential election, this is a fact. If I am required to believe in an absurdity to vote, I will not vote. Trying to persuade me that I should vote because my vote “matters” is even more absurd than trying to persuade me that I should not worry about savings because I might win the lottery.
I will never vote because I am philosophically opposed to voting and I know that “my vote” is meaningless. Trying to persuade people like me that I should vote because it “matters” will not work. However, I can be persuaded to encourage those inclined to vote to vote for Trump, and encourage others inclined to vote to do likewise, precisely for the reasons you cite.
I tried to make this clear. Perhaps in my second post I succeeded.
*****”I can be persuaded to encourage those inclined to vote to vote for Trump,”*****
I must admit, I’ve been guilty of that! Worst part is, now those people think that I am a Trump supporter!
I even had to endure an “I told you so” when I warned a Hitlery voter that if elected, the Bitch would bomb Syria…..to which the person replied “Trump will be the one to do the bombing”. Looks like they were right- which just goes to illustrate the folly of voting, even if our vote did matter; we have no idea what anyone is going to do once in office- but it’s easy to cull a few tiny little perks and say “See? He did some good” :D.
I’m sure, in the past, this same scenario played out when Slick Willy cut welfare spending.
Jeremy, voting is so depressing for me I find it difficult to get myself to a voting place.
I got back to 88 when a friend(retire AF turned CIA and then dropped out….which you can’t do so they tried to kill him) were having a conversation about the upcoming election with Bush 1 and Clinton.
I asked what he thought each would do and quick as a wink he said “The same thing. That’s the way it always works. They might make different pledges but they’ll do the same thing”.
Damned if he wasn’t right and later on Clinton would use one of his talking points saying he would pass the Bush NAFTA through if elected. Ross Perot was the only one to describe what NAFTA was…..and he was right. That great sucking sound started immediately after Clinton was elected and I saw everything going down the highways of west Texas to Mexico.
I had previously almost taken a good job with a yarn mill in Snyder. I watched it get hauled down 180 along with cotton gins and everything you can imagine.
The point being, he was correct and no matter what anyone says they’ll do, it will end up being the same their opponent would do because they are not their own boss.
****”Obamacare would be enshrined – and people like me who choose not to “participate” Hut! Hut! Hutted! for not “participating.” “***
Here’s the thing though: While in the example you mentioned, we get a small (and likely temporary) victory in just that one area, but in the aggregate, we are overall subject to MORE hut, hut, hutting, as Trump has also increased the scope, size, funding and irresponsibility of the police state and it’s myriad of armed agencies.
Of course, all of the other alternatives would have done the same- but to think that Trump is somehow restraining the tyranny of the state and preserving our liberties because he has given us one tiny loophole (after betraying his supporters by caving on his promise to end Obozocare), while at the same time he increases all of the other mechanisms of tyranny- such as by increasing funding for the military and police, and further militarizing the police, while destroying huge chunks of what is left of the 2nd Amendment- is just unrealistic.
It’s akin to a Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh praising whatever R happens to be in office, when they do the very same things that those ‘men’ would have condemned any D for doing.
Saving a dime at the cost of $100.
Or, the way I personally look at it: I’m glad that I did not give my assent to ANYONE who is further destroying liberty, because if I had, the fact that they might have thrown me one piece of half-chewed fat from their steak after they picked it up off of the floor, would not console me for having given my assent, and legitimizing their office and all of the other evils that they do.
The discussion was about a presidential election, it is impossible that your one vote could decide the outcome. Hell, even if every self described libertarian anarchist in the US refused to vote (I’d bet that at least half of them are already principled non-voters), that would be extremely unlikely to alter the outcome.
As for the language, I think Jason is right. In any case, a law is not going to override culture. The people will speak whatever language was dominant at the time.
One of my favorite Dilbert strips:
“First you must understand how numbers change reality. Some people think numbers merely reflect reality, but we (budget trolls) believe that numbers create reality”
Same thing happens to people in Washington. Most everyone in DC is an optimist. They believe the world will become a Utopia. “…If we can just get through this brief hardship (with my fantastic leadership, of course).” And they have the superpower of conjuring physics into existence through mere political will. Much like the philosopher’s stone, the power of government can transmute thought (or wishes) into physical being.
Of course there’s that other, smaller group, the pessimists. They believe the world only makes sense when you force it to. Spontaneous order is a myth. Human beings are only civil because of the threat of the stick, not the potential of the carrot. Without them eliminating the doubting Thomases of the world the optimist’s grand plans cannot be achieved.
Ultimately both are sides of the same coin, believing they have the right answers and you rubes better get behind their ideas, no matter how flawed and insane they may be.
It would be a service to all American citizens if those who would regulate the crap out of others would point to the exact clause in the Constitution that enables said regulation. There is nothing I can find, save a complete twisting of the Commerce Clause, that allows dictating automotive fuel economy. This is the inevitible result of Nanny Statism, an infection that has run rampant in Northern Europe for better than a century. Scandinavia, Germany, eventually even Britain were infected first, then it started really spreading here. It started here after the War of Northern Aggression, accelerated with Wilson and WW1, and really went nuts with Roosevelt 2 and the “NuDe Al”.
Yes, elections have consequences, see for example the House and San Fran Nan, or AOC. We needed a Trump to pry the lid off the box and let a little UV light in to disinfect the slime molds within.
The Boston Tea Party was fomented over far lesser concerns, BTW.
I would LOVE to be able to choose a small car with a simple, reliable OHV engine and 4 speed auto or 5 speed manual, maybe a station wagon. 25 MPG is OK with me, a fair trade for complexity and longevity. But, due to the nanny statists, I do not get to make that choice, they do.
I strongly suspect an OHV I4 would get you a lot more than 25 MPG. My old Pontiac Sunbird had an OHV V6 in a ~2700lb car, and it regularly got more than that even in deteriorating condition with my foot on the accelerator. In better shape and with a driver who wasn’t constantly ripping one wheel peels away from stoplights, it probably could have got into the 30s. Original owner said they could get 40 MPG out of it on trips down to the Kenai Peninsula where they could wind it up to 90 MPH and just stay there, which seems a little farfetched but at the same time wouldn’t really surprise me.
Yep Chuck, I used to get 28-32 MPG out of our 2.2L Aries Wagon. OHC, yeah, but non-crossflow, so comparable to a straight OHV engine. 5 speed manual. That’s what I want, simple, light, thrifty, reliable, long-lived, cheap to buy and keep.
If OrangeManBad was really a libertarian, he would instruct all relevant federal agencies that the CAFE standards are not an enumerated power of the federal government, instruct them not to enforce them, and fire anyone whose job entails enforcing or working on such things.
Or just pink slip the entireworkforce of the NHTSA and most other federal agencies as unconstitional.
One can dream, but remember a true libertarian executive office (or at least constitutional) would merely follow orders. The laws of the land are created and repealed by the Congress, not the President. At most I think the correct course of a libertarian president would be to simply end any undeclared wars and insist the various agencies follow the law as laid down by the congress to the letter.
It would still be a dramatic shift, especially when you consider the various conflicting rules and regulations that are selectively followed. Any time there’s a question, send it back to congress for clarification. In the case where there are wholesale regulations that aren’t spelled out in legislation, require congress to spell it out instead of relying on the executive branch to issue fatwas. If the Congress won’t act, sue ’em and get a ruling from the Supreme Court. Do that a few dozen times a month and the whole system will either change, or fall apart.
Maybe if we repeal the 16th, 17th, 23rd, 24th, and 26th Amendments to the US Constitution, that would be a start. Especially the 16th and 17th.
Considering they are not adhering to the Constitution now,,, how would that help?
Tactical victories…and the process of repeal will reveal friends and enemies to the full glare of the light of day. It’s a lot easier to force adherence to a simpler document. Also, the 16th in particular allows funding all the crap the commies in DC love so much, so repealing it will start squeezing the fund source off. With the 17th, imagine a Senator as the Ambassador to DC, not a swamp creature FROM DC. If that Texas wants its two Ambassadors to be appointed by the Governor, well, it can then be done. Ambassadors can be recalled by the one sending them, unlike popularly elected swamp critters.
The first 10 amendments are the only valid ones. The others either go against the intent of the founders or they are pure window dressing
I think you’ve got to add at least the 13th to that list.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude ie slavery, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Dunno, Jeremy. I agree with the sentiment on involuntary servitude, however, they also say that it can remain if you have been convicted of a crime. There are so many laws, virtually anyone can become a slave at any time.
“There are so many laws, virtually anyone can become a slave at any time”.
I agree with this. Harvey Silverglate wrote the book on it:
Also, military service, whether through voluntary enlistment or a draft, clearly violates the 13th. There should be no question as to the draft, but voluntary “service” is a hard one for many people. If “desertion” is a “crime”, then one is signing a slavery contract, which is illegal under the law. Quitting any other job is not a criminal offense. Of course, if one has signed a contract with penalties for early termination, one is responsible for those.
Still, the abolition of chattel slavery was the only good thing to come out of the War of Northern Aggression, although the price paid for this was immense and ongoing. Had the South been allowed to secede, it is inconceivable that The “peculiar institution” would have lasted much longer. First slavery is economically inefficient and becoming more so as industrialization advanced, second, slaves make terrible workers and third, the economy of the South was heavily dependent on exports. As most of the rest of the world was abolishing slavery, the South would have received pressure from trading partners, especially Britain.
“Harvey Silverglate wrote the book”
I bought that book, Three Felonies A Day, when it first came out. Read it in one day and thought it was pretty damn good.
I started to read it again last month. Got maybe 6 or 7 pages in and couldn’t stomach it. Too depressing.
These days everyfuckinthing I’d like to do is against the law.
And what about child support and alimony laws?! If that isn’t slavery, I don’t know what is.
Read “Three Felonies A Day” by Harvey Silverglate.
Don’t forget the 19th, either.
Oh yeah, thanks, forgot that one!
While I’d agree, I’m afraid the newest trend is to adopt the stance that the Constitution is only good for certain things like “defense” so no states are passing what are certainly unconstitutional laws but the Supremes uphold them.
I hate to say it but power is the only thing the sociopaths that rule us understand. We might have had a chance to Secede in Texas but now we have so many Californians and illegals…..but I repeat myself, I’m afraid there’s no real Texas spirit left even though I belong to the Tenth Amendment Center and the Secede Texas movement.
TAC has actually had some effect on law but I’m afraid the “arms” part of the big C are going to have to be used to get the sheeple off their asses.
This site should have more commenters than can be read. The fact it doesn’t is indicative of the ignorance of the masses.
A libertarian would place them under judicial review and see if at least some of them can get shot down by the judicial branch.