Death, said the wife of King Edward I’s weakling son, comes for us all – whispered into Longshank’s ears as he lay dying, in the movie Braveheart. She also told him – counterfactually, probably – that the child she was carrying wasn’t fathered by Longshank’s weakling son, who (in actual history) ended up dying not naturally and most unpleasantly.
The same kind of fate has befallen the Hemi V8 that has powered so many hugely successful Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram truck vehicles for the past 20 years.
Notwithstanding that it is among the most successful powerplants on the market and the defining heart of numerous successful vehicles, whose success is in no small measure directly attributable to having a Hemi V8 under the hood, it is being taken off the market – in favor of a new engine forced onto the market by government regulations that have made keeping the Hemi on the market beyond 2024 an effective impossibility.
That is why the last Hemi will be tucked under the hood of a Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep or Ram vehicle that dismal, soon-to-be-here year.
The new in-line turbocharged sixes that will replace the V8s currently powering models like the Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger and Challenger, Jeep Grand Cherokee and Wagoneer and Ram 1500 trucks will reportedly surpass the power output of the V8s and will – of course – comply with the latest gas mileage (and gas “emissions”) requirements that the V8s couldn’t.
But they aren’t V8s and that means every Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram vehicle that used to be defined by the availability of a V8 no longer will be. Which means they will no longer be what they were – and that was what made them so successful, in part because no one else made anything quite like them. Henceforth, they will be made more like what others (including Mercedes and BMW) already make – and probably just as expensive, too.
In part because these sixes will likely be augmented by electric motors, in addition to turbos – so as to make them power-comparable to the V8s they’ve been tapped to replace without “emitting” as much of the gas that is being used as the excuse to exterminate V8s.
But everything has its price – in money as well as other things.
A prequel of what it will cost – in money – may be gleaned from the cost being added to the last of the Hemi V8s under the hoods of new Ram 1500 pickups. Reportedly, they are also being “electrified” on their way out, via mandatory coupling with what is styled E-Torque “technology.” This being partial “electrification” of the drivetrain, via an electric battery and 48 volt electrical system that has been a mandatory standard with the 3.6 liter V6 that has served as the standard engine in the Ram 1500 pick-up since the 2019 model year.
Apparently, the E-Torque “technology” is now also standard with the Hemi V8 that is the still the Ram’s standard engine in higher-trim models such as the Limited. A reader who is in the process of trying to buy one conveys the following:
“I was placing my order this past Thursday for a Limited and was informed that the only engine options that can be ordered on Limited were 5.7 E-Torque and the 3.0 EcoDiesel. Also, they are now charging $2,795 for the 5.7 E-Torque, even though the regular 5.7 was standard and the E-Torque was (formerly) a no cost option. So essentially, the truck price has been increased $2,795. I guess as we get to the end of the production run, there will be changes.”
But for the sake of what?
We can glean that from a scan of the rated mileage numbers posted by the 3.6 liter V6 without E-Torque “technology” as contrasted with the mileage numbers posted by the same V6 with E-Torque “technology.”
The V6, sans the “technology” carried an EPA mileage rating of 16 city, 23 highway when it was last available (back in 2018) without the “technology” – as well as the cost and the complexity. The V6 with the “technology” – and the cost and complexity – carries an EPA rating of 20 city, 25 highway – a “gain” of about 3-4 MPG overall.
The V8 – sans the “technology” – rates 17 city, 23 highway, which is only about 2-3 MPG less than that returned by the V6 with the “technology.” If the “technology” brings the V8’s mileage up to par with that of the “technology” encrusted V6, it will (apparently) only cost you about $2,800 extra to get the additional 2-3 MPG.
It make you a while to drive down that cost in the form of less spent on gas.
This gives us another prequel – of the cost that will likely attend the replacement of the V8 with in-line sixes that come standard with even more such “technology.” Motors, batteries and turbos.
Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram have not yet published any pricing for the replacements for displacement but it is unlikely they will be less – or even the same – as the cost of a V6 (or V8) without all this “technology.”
Mercedes – and other expensive brands – already have such “technology.” In the case of Benz, a partially electrified/turbocharged in-line six that’s very much like the pending in-line sixes that will replace the V8s in Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram vehicles beginning in 2024. But Mercedes can afford to be expensive – because it is Mercedes. It makes money selling fewer vehicles for more money, each.
Chrysler – and even more so Dodge and Jeep and Ram – make money by selling lots of vehicles to more people, who can afford (and desperately want) V8s without “technology.” Whether the “technology” surpasses the power of the V8s they’ll be replacing is an irrelevance if most people cannot afford them.
Especially for the sake of 2-4 MPG “saved.”
Love lies bleeding, in my hand.
. . .
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Salvete, Fuckingay Omnes !
That Girl ! I mean Hilary, Hemily, oh well english is my 19th language, I only speak Vocative Case, Latin down here in 3.5 North Latitude.
19th Covid Declension because, reasons.
Sorry I couldn’t make the shindig, but even discount flights with only a wee backpack are like 800,000 Colombian pesos these strange days, most peculiar Mama !
She be gone – Hall & Unsown Oates
$ 2 Hundy Biden bucks for you Gringoland Lubbers.
Even a Bad Hombre Mexican Peso value 2 hundy Colombian White Powder pesos.
Maybe ask some CIA guys what a Fiver gets you at Colombia, D.C. one of the capitals down here.
Ol’ google.com.pe be saying girlie bars for AWG’ers and eastward is not much more spendy. You’ll see why $200 roundtrip would make any grown man cry, Brown Sugar !
It’s almost Juneteenth, good a reason as any to drive down yourself to lands of Motorcyclists and tiny cars like they got over in India that cost you $1 Uhmerricunn Dollhair honest Cartagena De Las Injuns, Caribbean Queen Billie Eilish Ocean.
Pax Americana, Y’alls from the Lima Bean or Venezuela Vuvuzuella President Nikolai Maduro Putina Vlad a Beer…
Was there an announcement or is this just standard Jalopnik scuttlebutt? Earlier this year a car journo bothered to ask Stellantis mgmt about the death of the Hemi. Reply was that it’s not going anywhere for the foreseeable future. Said car journo scuttlebutt also claimed the pentastar was going away last year. Guess not!
As to the reader’s trouble finding a standard hemi on the top trim, I’d wager that’s more a function of getting maximum margin out of the still impossible to find chips.
All this is to say: this article reads like a bunch of speculation with no hard evidence. Of course the wiggle room is provided by giving no timeline for your claims. Sneaky.
The head of Dodge, Tim Kuniskis, told Motor Trend : “These cars that you know today will go out of production by the time we get to 2024.”
Nothing “sneaky” about it. The Hemi is being retired; its replacement is the “Hurricane” in-line six. No speculation. Ugly fact.
So that quote came from a Motor Trend article about the Charger and Challenger. Nothing said about the Ram at all. Further, they mentioned a third vehicle in addition to the EV and PHEV with no further details.
Stellantis has announced the Hemi V8 is to be replaced by the Hurricane six, across the brand and model lineup. Stellantis has no real choice about it because of CAFE and “greenhouse gas” regs. It’s why Toyota dropped the V8 from the Tundra and why Ford only puts a V6 in the Expedition – soon to be “electrified.”
Your old friend replaced by two washing machine motors…lol…
EV fake sports car
Everrati today announced specifications for its electric GT40. With two motors powering the back wheels…..two washing machine motors…..lol…..instead of a nice V8
allows the car to sprint to 60 mph (96 km/h) in less than four seconds and onto a top speed of more than 125 mph….has a very short diff to make it quicker so it has a low top speed like all EV’s.
it has a range of more than 125 miles….if you drive at 30 mph on a flat road in warm weather….lol…..
A tesla at 10 tenths on a track used 80 miles range in 8 miles.
So this thing at 10 tenths will go 12 miles?…..lol….
Will Ford sue for copying GT?
Speaking of funerals:
“Worst annual % change (-6%) for auto dealers’ retail sales since May 2020.” — Liz Sonders [tweet includes a chart]
Several auto makers face merger or extinction as the recession deepens and their sales plummet.
They should have stuck to making cars buyers wanted, instead of diverting scarce resources into baking EV pies in the sky.
To a Mach-E owner stranded beside the road: “Get a Hemi” —
DETROIT – Ford Motor is instructing dealers to temporarily stop selling electric Mustang Mach-E crossovers due to a potential safety defect that could cause the vehicles to become immobile.
Ford, in a notice Monday to its dealers, said 49,000 potentially affected vehicles include 2021 and 2022 Mach-Es that were built in the past two years at the Cuautitlan plant in Mexico.
The problem involves a potential overheating of the vehicle’s high voltage battery main contactors, an electrically controlled switch for a power circuit.
The issue can lead to a malfunction that could cause the vehicle not to start or immediately lose propulsion power while in motion, the notice states. — CNBC
High voltage, high amperage — leading to thermal expansion, mechanical seizure, arcing across the contacts, melted metal?
Merely the hobgoblins of little minds, scoff the acolytes of EeeVees.
Here’s a quarter; call Pete Buttitwitch.
Yup – and imagine over time. How will these EVs fare when subjected, for years, to extremes of heat and cold? To road salt and potholes? I anticipate FAA-style inspection-maintenance regimes – necessary, in this case.
Ford’s Cost to Build the Mach-E Increased $25,000 Per Car Due to Battery Prices Skyrocketing
Another example………2021 Polestar 2 EV range and battery cost……
It can use 49.1 Kwh per 100 miles on the highway. @ $0.40 per kwh it will cost $19.64 to go 100 miles.
Twitter users across the U.S. have indicated similar rates, with averages of $0.40 becoming the norm.
ATTENTION: Plus the cost of the battery, which is huge, you have to store the electricity in the very, very expensive battery,
Example: the tesla $22,000 battery is used up, worn out in 100,000 miles. this works out to $22.00 per 100 miles it is costing you for the battery.
Total cost to go 100 miles, $19.64 for the electricity plus $22.00 for the battery (battery cost per 100 miles) = $41.64 to go 100 miles.
travelling 100 miles in a 50 mpg diesel uses 2 gallons of fuel @ $4.00/gal. = $8.00
One difference is the diesel powered car doesn’t need a $22,000 battery for storage, it just has a $200 gas tank for energy storage that lasts longer then the car.
Why use a $22,000 battery for storage when you can use a $200 gas tank? = insanity.
If an ice car had a $22,000 gas tank nobody would buy it…..lol….
This from Zero Hedge on high octane shortage. Country is being destroyed by gawd damn lunatics.
Eric, I don’t trust the armchair experts in the zero hedge article’s comments section. What’s the real poop on running 87 in cars that say they need high octane (e.g. BMW)?
In re burning regular (87-89 octane) in an engine whose manufacturer says use premium: If the car is a modern, computer-controlled model with fuel injection, the worst that will happen if you do not use the recommended (high) octane is that the engine will not develop its maximum rated horsepower and that gas mileage will probably decrease a little, too. The computer will adjust ignition timing (and boost, if the engine is turbocharged) to prevent pre-ignition of the lower-octane fuel within the cylinders. But you may not save any money – even if you don’t mind the engine not developing maximum power; see that bit about mileage decreasing, too.
This is so because the engine isn’t operating at peak efficiency – on account of the boost/ignition timing, etc. being dialed back to decrease cylinder pressure and so avoid detonation – “pinging” – caused by the air-fuel mix prematurely igniting (as when the piston hasn’t reached TDC and is still coming up on its compression stroke, with the premature combustion event trying to force it back down; very hard on pistons, rods and bearings, etc.).
Octane can be understood as a measure of a fuel’s resistance to igniting as a result of heat and compression – rather than spark. It is not a measure of the quality, as such, of the fuel. Regular unleaded is not a poorer quality gasoline than unleaded Premium; it simply doesn’t have as high an octane rating as premium, which is designed to accommodate the higher cylinder pressures in engines that have mechanically high compression or turbo-superchargers, which have the same effect.
Mike, have had many late model vehicles that require 93 or 89, and have successfully run 87 in them (most of the time). Worst thing I witnessed was I was running 89 cause I was towing heavy (truck recommended 89) and then next non-towing fillup I went back to 87, heard it ping once and bingo, tiny little loss of power-feel, very tiny, no more ping.
I can notice the very slight difference but I’m a nut-job mech engr, but I’m guessing most won’t.
Biden Infuriates Environmentalists, Oil Refiners By Allowing More Ethanol In Gas To Lower Prices
from zh comments
As noted in the story that it’s crazy to use corn for this when food shortages are on the horizon.
NOTE: Also they burn up about two gallons of fossil fuel in producing one gallon of ethanol. The cars gas mileage is also effected by the ethanol.
10 dollar corn and 20 dollar meat
Good Lord what’s a poor man to eat.
Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline, study says
Efforts to reduce carbon pollution using ethanol appear to have backfired.
Ethanol as a fuel has long been contentious in the US. It started being added to gasoline nationwide in 2006,
And it infuriates me because I don’t like running high ethanol in my car! Alcohol pulls in moisture from the atmosphere (why it’s impossible to have 100% ethanol under normal conditions, it pulls in water from the air and dilutes itself) and that water will separate out in the tank if not carefully controlled.
Ethanol destroys sensors and engines. Sounds like something these Republicans support for their corn based voting block.
It is also an underhanded way to get more people into electric cars by speeding up the destruction of the fuel combustion vehicles on the road and making them costlier to maintain.
Ethanol Is Worse for the Climate Than Gasoline, Study Finds
clearing more and more grassland to grow biofuel may actually create 93 times the greenhouse gases than will be saved by the fuel generated on that land on an annual basis, according to a recent paper in Science.
Apart from the scientific evidence that ethanol-based particles in air can kill people and make them sick, more recent scientific analysis links corn for ethanol to declining bee populations, with potentially catastrophic implications for many other high-value agricultural crops (almonds, apples) that depend on these insects for pollination.
A recent study found that declines in bee populations are greatest in areas of intense agriculture in the Midwest corn belt and California’s Central Valley, both of which have few of the flowering species, such as goldenrod, that are so important to bee survival. “These results,” the study noted, “reinforce recent evidence that increased demand for corn in biofuel production has intensified threats to natural habitats in corn-growing regions.”
The Environmental Working Group’s Emily Cassidy has written that moving from E10 to E30 would mean “more carbon emissions, more toxic pollutants into drinking water, more toxic algae blooms, and higher water bills for Midwestern residents.”
the RFS increased corn prices by 30% and the prices of other crops by 20%, which, in turn, expanded US corn cultivation by 2.8 Mha (8.7%) and total cropland by 2.1 Mha (2.4%) in the years following policy enactment (2008 to 2016). These changes increased annual nationwide fertilizer use by 3 to 8%, increased water quality degradants by 3 to 5%, and caused enough domestic land use change emissions such that the carbon intensity of corn ethanol produced under the RFS is no less than gasoline and likely at least 24% higher
The increased demand for corn also spilled over onto other crops, increasing soybean prices by 19% [−8%, 72%] and wheat by 20% [2%, 60%]
The combined changes in the intensity of corn production and extent of cropland caused 7.5% more reactive nitrogen (N) from synthetic fertilizer to be applied annually to the landscape (Table 1). This contributed to a 5.3% increase in nitrate (NO3−) leached annually from agricultural land due to the RFS. Such nitrate losses occurred through vertical seepage below the root zone, where nutrients are no longer accessible to crops, and have been implicated in widespread groundwater contamination throughout the United States with major public health consequences
We found that greater use of N fertilizer increased nitrous oxide (N2O) emissions by 8.3% NOTE: (they are banning diesels because of this)
just stick with gas or diesel….lol…..stupid leftist/globalists
These modern cars were not designed to burn ethanol, it attracts moisture, then you have water in your fuel system, how are you going to get it out…lol. You could add a water separator filter near the gas tank, it will probably void your warranty…Ethanol ruins sensors, the same water in the fuel problem. One opinion is it will wreck your car so you are forced into an EV sooner….part of the agenda, pushing EV’s. The government could ruin anything.
It is a sad day. Maybe I can go put antique tags on my truck at the end of the year then.
“It’s just transporation. You’re not supposed to enjoy it.”
Thus sayeth the bureaucrat.
What is it about men and movement that makes us want to compete for the cup? If it is a test of men’s ability, why not do as NASCAR does and put men in basically identical vehicles (not even good racing vehicles at that) and test the man? If it is a test of machine, why not just set up a test jig and dyno?
If ultimately the goal is to get from point A to point Z, who cares how we get there? As long as the mode is reasonably comfortable and safe, what difference does paint color, badge or bragging rights matter?
For some, the idea of being chauffeured around in your vehicle is appealing. There’s no need for concern over the mechanical aspects of the machine, only that “your man” (as Jay Leno points out was a common phrase in early automobile instruction manuals), can properly operate it while you sit and concern yourself with much more important things. Your only want is to end the journey sooner, or have access to productivity tools (or distractions) so as to supress any thought of incompentence.
Why are V8s important? We here know the answer.
Everyone else will know too, once they are gone.
1. Great recall of a classic rocker tune, from the gay guy with the oversized shades, of all things.
2. The comparative technologies of the Hemi versus the “Slant Six Redux” (Hurricane? Sheesh) are fine to discuss from a gear head POV, but the real point is that CONSUMER CHOICE was interfered with by “Gubmint Fatwas”. If those nitwits at the EPA or the DOT had their way, we’d all be driving padded Trabants, and be “allocated” miles and “available” times on the highways.
3. This will be not only the death of Chrysler passenger cars, even “sporty” models like the Challenger, it’s current incarnation (Beavis and Butthead could go an entire episode on that word alone), Stellantis, will crash and burn.
4. To an old Mopar fan like myself, the Chrysler Corp. that I once knew died once Lee Iaccoca retired.
The computer algorithm for gas mileage average in my 2018 4Runner goes down quick when even a slight incline/hill/headwind is encountered. (because testing is done on flat dynos in a clean room) The V6 it’s sporting is woefully underpowered if larger tires and other weight is added. We just returned from a cross country road trip to Colorado. If I wanted to save money I would have drove something else. It’s not the governments job to “save the planet” or save me money. I can decide for myself.
And let’s be honest… the “planet” doesn’t give a shit what any of us drive across the country.
Exactly. If the planet wanted to care, it would swallow us all up in a few seconds. The “save the planet” crowd is bonkers.
‘It may take you a while to drive down that cost in the form of less spent on gas.’ — eric
Speaking of the other kind of gas — natural — the Freeport, Texas LNG export plant, which suffered a fire and explosion on June 8th, announced today that a return to full operation will take until end-year (not the three weeks some hoped for).
In response, the US natural gas price has plunged about 20 percent, while European natural gas prices have soared by a similar amount, in mirror image fashion.
Just to spell it out: an industrial accident has done more for US consumers than anything ‘Biden’ has done or plans to do.
Says it all, don’t it?
That’s great news Jim,
Recently got my gas bill and my monthly payment just about doubled (I’m on the balanced bill program) so hopefully I can heat my house to a comfortable temperature this winter. There is no way the US should be exporting gas or oil unless there is an extremely large surplus that will keep prices down for American consumers. Instead of keeping our own resources here and maybe finishing the Keystone pipeline FJB goes to kiss the asses of the despicable Saudis. F em all.
ohhh the pain…………………………………
Luckily I have 3 late model Hemi’s, a ’19, ’20, and ’21. Enough time I guess for them to work the bugs out of the new 6TT. Which I will be ‘forced’ to buy, or take my chances on running out my future old V8’s with PLC’s everywhere. Which I doubt I will do.
And as others have mentioned, my mpg will not go up, probably down as I drive with my foot in it most of the time. It makes me happy to hear the growl. Now it’s going to be ‘whistle while you work, whistle while you work……….” as the turbo’s stay pegged all the time.
ohhhh the pain…………………………………
Standing behind all of it is a government that has assumed authority to kill you if you don’t obey their psychotic rules. Sad as it is, I suspect the loss of V8s is of minor concern compared to what’s coming. By all appearances, they intend to kill a great many of us. Not being able to afford food and shelter is going to be a problem.
Your right John, thank you for the reality check.
Has anyone at Dodge done the cost benefit analysis of just non-compliance? What would be the fine per vehicle to keep the Hemi? It would be nice some cigar chomping CEO tells congress and the Bite-me president to F themselves because Dodge is continuing to make the products the public wants and to hell with your fine.
I believe a while ago Eric mentioned that the old FCA paid the largest ‘epa fines’ of any Manuf.
But in the game of numbers, ieee… how many old tech 300-Chargers-Challengers they sold, it didn’t matter. ohh well, Stelantis is not FCA, we all knew this was coming but I was holding out that the American managers could win the day. They did the longest, but eventually lost.
I wonder if that was Sergio’s approach?
These blown motors, in addition to durability issues, have no character. Tromp on the accelerator in a Hemi-powered car and you get an aggressive growl. Do so with a turbo motor and you get the whoosh and not much else.
It’s not just our government that’s doing this. I think the whole point of all of this “decarbonization” is to ruin personal transportation and get everyone into public transportation.
I live in a rural area in NW Florida and there is no public transportation where I live. How do they get me? Simple. They make it to where everyone who isn’t a billionaire can’t afford to live outside the “megacities” like in the Judge Dredd comics.
They do this by raising the price of gasoline (like now) and later by forcing soulless EVs on us that don’t do a bit of good in a rural area where gas stations, much less charging stations, are 10 to 15 miles apart.
Klaus Schwab and his WEF pals want us packed into teeming, diverse cities where crime runs rampant and everyone is packed on top of each other, eating bugs, smoking dope and playing video games. The rural areas will be a playground for the plutocrats.
Their thinking is that the normal people around the world are too drugged and too satiated playing video games and watching porn to revolt ala France in the late 1700s. I’m hoping that we prove them wrong.
These v-6 engines lose the 2-4 mpg’s really quick if you do pickup things with the pickup. Like adding weight to the bed via auxiliary fuel tank, tools, etc. Upping the size of the stock tires–as many people do–instant hit to fuel mileage.
Then there’s longevity. Most people are dazzled by gadgets and power–that most people rarely make use of anyway. But that power comes with longevity issues. It’s why Rams with a Cummins diesel don’t come with the 1000 torque Cummins in the 4500 and 5500 models. Those are in the 770 range. Ditto for Ford and GM diesels. The torque is in the mid sevens across the board in vehicles where longevity and durability are of concern.
The average Joe that buys an eco-boost doesn’t comprehend this. He convinces himself that what the car manufacturers are selling him is exactly what the market demanded. And he wonders why it wasn’t done years ago. He wonders why Toyota is “behind on technology”. Well, now they aren’t, with all their turbo 6’s powering the Tundra.
Bubbbbye million mile Tundra’s. Nice knowing you. It was a good run.
In dementia joe’s economy, who the hell would sign up for 5+ year loan to buy the damn thing?
‘V6 with the “technology” – and the cost and complexity – carries an EPA rating of 20 city, 25 highway – a “gain” of about 3-4 MPG overall.’ — eric
These numbers strongly suggest that — just like nine-speed transmissions — E-Torque is engineered to ace the EPA mileage test, rather than to meet any real-world necessities.
E-Torque helps more with the stop-and-go city test (4 mpg) than the highway test (2 mpg), as one would expect.
This in turn raises Stellantis’s fleet average, and reduces the fines paid to Commissar Pete Buttitwitch and Co.
Telemetry built in to current vehicles could easily measure the real-world mileage of a sample of (say) 1,000 vehicles of a particular model, the way their owners actually drive them.
It’s the same data harvesting approach as sampling what a selection of households are watching on TeeVee (if they’ve got one — chatterers make me insane).
But helpfully informing the public of what mileage they can expect isn’t the goal here. Rather, the tests are a vehicle for imposing engineering constraints which produce desired results.
As Eric projects, the result of “about $2,800 extra to get an additional 2-3 MPG” might not appeal to most buyers. But like the dodgy meat loaf at the school cafeteria, it’s all that’s on offer. Scarf it down or go hungry …and mind the bell for next period.
Jim, if you don’t eat your meat you cant have any pudding
How can you have any pudding if you don’t et your meat
You, yes you behind the E-bike shed, stand still laddie.