How do you know the federal apparat – as well as the corporate apparat – aren’t really interested in better gas mileage – nor in reducing the “emissions” of the gas (C02) that is produced by burning gas?
That’s easy.
If they were, they’d change two things about new cars.
The first is the generic OEM use of gratuitously oversized wheels – now referred to as “rims,” in homage to the appearance ethos popularized by rap culture that has become mainstream culture.
Most new cars have at least 17 inch tall wheels. Even what are no longer economy cars, in any etymologically accurate sense. Those used to come with 13 and 14 inch wheels – and tires sized to match, which had a much smaller footprint and so less rolling rolling resistance. The result being the car weighed less – and had less rolling resistance. Which resulted in higher gas mileage and (by dint of that) lower emissions.
Without having to touch the engine.
In other words, a no-cost MPG gain. The smaller wheels and tires themselves would also cost less, reducing the cost of the car as well as the cost of driving it. Including the cost – down the road – of replacing the car’s tires when that became necessary. Which would be less expensive, in the first place, because smaller tires are less expensive than larger ones. And in the second place, because the tires would last longer because the car would be lighter and that reduces friction and so wear and tear.
Never mind.
The cultural idiocy of fitting oversized “rims” to cars is a just-for-show idiocy (in context of this putative obsession with “saving gas” and reducing gaseous “emissions”) that has added expense as well as weight and increased waste.
To make the point, consider an economical car from the not-so-distant past, the Honda CRX hf that was made as recently as the late 1980s – before “rims” became a thing. It came with 13 inch wheels, which is part of the reason why this car achieved 41 MPG in city driving and 49 on the highway – which is higher mileage than any new not-so-economical car that isn’t a hybrid, which adds a battery and electric motor to allow for shutting off the engine as often as feasible. The additional weight of both porks up the vehicle – which would brings us to the other reason modern cars are so consumptive of gas – and productive of gasses.
The ’88 Civic HF weighed just 1,819 lbs.
A 2023 Civic weighs about 1,000 pounds more (2,877 lbs.) and comes standard with 16 inch wheels – three inches taller (and several inches wider) than the 13 inch wheels that came with the ’88 Civic CRX hf.
Which is part of the reason why the ’24 Civic only manages 31 city, 40 highway.
Sixteen inch wheels are, by the way, taller (and, typically, wider) wheels than were fitted to almost all of the V8 muscle cars of the ’60s and ’70s. For example, the Corvette of the ’70s never came with more than a 15×8 inch wheel.
A Corvette.
In italics to emphasize the fact that a Corvette is a high-performance sports car that is designed specifically to be driven fast and hard, the only functionally valid reason for fitting large-footprint wheels to a vehicle. That is to say, for the sake of greater traction – especially during high-speed/high-load driving, particularly cornering. Fitting big “rims” to a car such as a Civic – which is designed to be a car and one most people drive at or maybe a little bit faster than the speed limit – is gratuitously wasteful of gas and productive of gas.
So why is common practice?
Chiefly because big “rims” are a kind of vehicular fashion statement. They are au currant. This does not mean they are not silly. Wide-collared shirts and bell bottom corduroys were also once au currant. No one wears them now because they are no longer au currant – which they aren’t because fashions changed. Not because they looked ridiculous. Most people just go with whatever the trend is – and today, the trend is for new vehicles to have large “rims” – the taller (and wider) the better. Many new SUVs and crossovers come standard with 20-21 inch “rims” – and you can imagine how much weight and rolling resistance that adds to the vehicle.
And it’s not just the “rims,” either.
The vehicle’s brakes – specifically, rotors – as well as other components are upsized to complement these “rims” (and the additional weight imparted).
It would be an interesting experiment to see what the mileage difference would be if a given car that came with 17 or 18 inch “rims” was fitted with 15 inch rims and tires instead. As it turns out, an experiment isn’t needed – because we have data.
The ’24 Toyota Corolla hybrid I recently reviewed (see here for that) comes standard with 16 inch steel wheels. So equipped, the Toyota advertises 53 MPG in city driving and 46 MPG on the highway. The Nightshade Edition of this car – which is mechanically identical – comes standard with 18 inch “rims” and larger tires. So equipped, this version of the same car gets 50 city, 43 highway – a loss of 3 miles per gallon.
That is a much more significant loss than the trivial gains achieved by such artifices as automatic stop-start (ASS) technology. It is comparable to the typical gain achieved by replacing a conventional six speed automatic with gears with a less reliable continuously variable (CVT) automatic and the use of much-more complicated (and costly) direct injection rather than port fuel injection.
How much higher would the Corolla’s mileage be if it had 15 inch or even 14 inch wheels? The fact that it doesn’t says a lot, doesn’t it?
And how much mileage could be gained (and “emissions” reduced) if the typical new car weighed even 500 pounds less than it typically does?
The fact that looks – and what they style “safety” (which is what has added all that weight) take precedence over “saving gas” – and reducing the “emissions” of gas – shows you just how important both of these things actually are to the government-corporate apparat.
. . .
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I will say I agree in some ways and disagree in other ways. Here is my analysis.
Many of today’s cars have aluminum wheels, and low profile tires. Low profile tires have far less rolling resistance than high-sidewall tires, and bigger circles offer a higher gearing, sort of like a gear-free overdrive, or more like the wheel size equivalent of high rear-end ratio. Call it the modern-day equivalent of the 80’s 2.73 rear gear set.
That being said, despite the alloy wheels having far less weight than high-sidewall tires, this offers an effective “gear-up” and larger overall diameter. I believe the problem is not in added weight to propel forward by larger wheel, so much as the higher rotating inertia. Let us perform a test (please don’t do this, it can be very dangerous unless you are right on top of things, and have experience with what can happen, as the car can fall off the jack stands, and catastrophic things can happen as a result.) Let us raise two cars, put both on jackstands, and start them both (again, please don’t do this!) Now, let’s have the same engine (same torque curves and horsepower curves, same flywheel mass) in both cars, and let us put both cars in gear, and open the throttle to the same position in both cars, using the same gear ratio the whole time, preferably the highest gear (of course both cars having the same transmission and axle ratio). Let’s see which set of wheels spin up faster, and given the same brake rotors and pads, let’s see which set of wheels stop faster. This is your spinning inertia, which can have effects similar to differing flywheel mass on an engine during acceleration, and can have the same effect in reverse during braking.
That being said, I have a 1986 Chevy Van, and if I drive it easy, it gets 19 MPG, despite it’s weight and poor aerodynamics. It has a 2.73 rear gear set ratio, and a non-overdrive TH-350-C automatic transmission with lockup torque converter. I really believe that theroetically the mileage could be better with a lower rear axle ratio (say 3.73 or 3.90) and a good high overdrive gear, as under load, uphill, or during aggressive acceleration, from a complete stop, the engine is over-labored from this non-shiftable high gearing.
That being said, your huge wheels are equivalent to non-shiftable very high axle ratio in this same way.
Besides, I don’t even like the looks of much anything made in the past 30 years anyway XD.
The EU is set to ban classic bikes and classic cars….starts there and spreads…
The EU is proposing new legislation which looks set to effectively ban classic bikes and classic cars. The EU’s proposed “Fit for 55” program sets out legislation through which vehicles over 15 years old will be forcibly scrapped if they suffer major breakdown or need significant renovation work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to4aupqZWRA
The original Fiat 500 weighed 1100 lb….cost $7000 in 2024 dollars
A Tesla weighs about 4500 lb…..costs around $50,000
Lead acid batteries have about 25% of the energy density of Lithium ion batteries……..
With lead acid batteries in a Fiat 500….. you might get about the same range as a Tesla with Lithium ion batteries….because only 25% of the weight….
The original Fiat 500 with lead acid batteries and an electric motor…..would be a far cheaper option….and the batteries are very cheap and 100% recyclable…..
Tesla is replacing batteries under warranty with cheap, inferior, Lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries ….shorter range batteries….lower energy density…about 40% less then Lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries…maybe they are worried about fires?….
Lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries
more fire risk
greater energy density…more range…
more expensive
shorter life span
Lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries
better safety….less fire risk
shorter range….
lower energy density…about 40% less then Lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries
cheaper…are found in most Chinese EV’s
heavier
longer life span
more temperature sensitive…worse in hot or cold climate…
Lead acid batteries
inexpensive, safe, and reliable.
lower energy density….75% less then lithium ion batteries…
All evs are junk. Every last one
As a huge fan of mpg, hypermiling, small cars, geo metro’s, crx’s, prius c, etc. etc. I would like to share the original EPA MPG estimate for the Honda CRX
This article hit home for me because I hate big fat tires on my eco car. Why is it the old Civic has 13″ wheels with skinny 80 aspect ratios while my current 8th gen Civic (that I am driving now) has humongous 205 55R16 tires? I am not driving on a race track.
I will point out a Prius C weighs about the same and has much skinnier tires.
For one thing, the stinkin spare tire holder in the trunk WILL NOT fit the tire on the car! WTF, only the skinny little donut tire fits in the hole – so what if I am driving cross country? I do not like donut tires – I always carry 2 spares while driving across Oregon to Idaho.
So what possessed the designers of these new cars that they trunk tire has to be smaller than the stock tire? If anyone travels much with spares like I do then the size of the tire is critical – you want small and light. Like the special forces sniper says, “one is as good as none”. You always need two spares when it comes to guns and tires.
I had an 1982 Civic 1.5/5spd, it weighed around 1800 lbs (about a 100 more than a Geo Metro) and it got 42 mpg. It had a carb, while the new civic has the fancy V-TEC with fuel injectors yet gets LESS fuel economy.
40 years of reverse progress in mpg. One good thing about my Civic is how the fuel injection cuts out when you have it in gear, exceed 1500 rpm, with the gas pedal not applied. I can see it on my aftermarket Scan Gauge 3 gadget (outstanding device everyone should have). The mpg goes to 9999.
BTW the Civic hatchback became the Honda Fit, which also gets suck ass fuel economy.
Compare Old and New Fuel Economy Estimates for 1984 CRX
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/comparempg.shtml#id=26572
57 city 67 highway
why did they lower it so much? shrinkflation in BTUs
the new fuel is watered down with ethanol
less BTUs per gallon = less mpgs
now there’s an article if you can prove it
What’s interesting is that modern computer controlled engines are NOT configured and programmed for peak efficiency, they are set up to minimize emissions. Much like the awful smog cams wrecked the mileage of V8’s in the 70s, they are configured and programmed to result in combustion temperatures to minimize oxides of nitrogen, CO2, etc.
This is why a “tune” on a modern engine, like a VW TDI or a Cummins turbodiesel will improve both performance and mileage. I haven’t done it yet on a gas engine, may have to try though.
The smog cam swap out is vital to wake up a 70s V8. This doesn’t mean a “race cam” with lumpy idle and bad manners around town. Just a late 60s pre smog stock grind will make for happy motoring and a smooth idle.
My older Harleys responded well to this fix as well. I’d pick the first step in a cam selection so as to pick up valve timing that made for a better performing motor but retained a decent (for a Harley!) idle. This also means you’re not stressing the guts of the engine thus preserving long life.
Hi Sparkey,
Yup! Lots of personal experience with this. A ’70s muscle car like my ’76 Trans-Am could be remarkably transformed just by re-jetting the carb (factory lean) dialing in the ignition and removing the hugely restrictive factory exhaust. These things alone were typically good for a 20 horsepower gain without digging into the engine itself. A cam swap and (in the case of Pontiacs) earlier heads that upped the CR by a point or so could add another 50-plus without degrading drivability at all.
The 455 in my ’76 prolly makes a solid 320 or so horsepower now.
Just a stage one tune…(you can go to stage 4)…on a VW TDI diesel gave 20% better fuel economy and 25% more power….the biggest gain of any engine with just a stage one tune…..there was a lot of power and economy locked up because of government regulations….
Here is a Mk 4 Golf with a tuned TDI diesel…a monster…fun ride…watch the burnout……
590BHP 1.9 TDI MK4 VW GOLF – QUICKEST IN EUROPE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFxdhVMDvRs
The King…..VW Mk1 diesel, great fuel economy 60 mpg….and quick..the coolest tuner car….
This VW Mk1 diesel ran a 9.51 sec. 1/4 mile….watch the video….great burnout….
It is quicker then a Tesla plaid, a Porsche GT 2 RS, Ferrari 296 GTB, Lamborghini Gallardo, Ford GT…..etc….
a Golf Mk1 diesel weighs 1800 lb
gets 60 mpg highway,
it can last 400,000 miles
Golf Mk1 diesel msrp in 2024 dollars…. $31,000
a Tesla weighs 4800 lb and gets 25 mpg,
Teslas last 100,000 miles,
the battery is dead it is scrap….new battery $22,000
Tesla msrp $60,000…Plaid about $100,000….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz186kNjdJU
Serious about gas mileage…yes…push EV’s that average 25 mpg…lol
The slaves are catching on…don’t want EV’s….
Seems the first round of EV’s reaching their “end of battery life” are being returned as trade-ins and….no one wants them….
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/used-electric-vehicle-buying-report
$25k for a 10 year old used vehicle?…with a screwed battery….worth zero?….
wait for further price drops …….
——————————————————————
They’ll be piling up like cord wood. Wait and see. Batteries too expensive. Too expensive to repair. Unreliable power sources. Insurance will become too expensive. Terrible in cold weather. Tomorrow’s recycling headache…a rumored $4000 recycling fee?…
push EV’s that average 25 mpg….but…the empg is 80…or some such lie….calculated on the energy already magically being in the battery already…not accounting for the generation and transmission, etc…..lying with calculations….
Assuming the electricity just magically turns up in the battery is an occult theory…satanism….making something out of nothing is occult satanism…unless you are God…money printing out of nothing….the same thing…
I’ve got a Cayenne which I bought used a couple of years ago. It came with 21″ wheels with 35 profile tires. I replaced them with 19″ with 50 profile tires (I’d go smaller if I could, but 19″ is the smallest that fits over the massive brakes). The ride got better, and since I drive a lot and track my mileage, I know that I gained about 1.5mpg on a very frequent 360 mile trip that I do. Going from 20.5 mpg to 22 mpg is a big difference, 7%!
Also, tires are $200 less EACH at that size, so $800 less for a set. Granted, there’s no cheap way to own a 520HP V8 monster, but I love the thing. Compared to cars from the past tho, I also think that 22mpg average over a trip (which includes driving up a mountain and through some city traffic), is remarkably good.
Thankfully, all of my 4 vehicles have 60 to 70 series aspect ratio on all of the tires. I don’t like the ride on regular roads for those short-sidewall tires (it might be pleasant on a racetrack, but I have to drive on regular roads that include bumps, holes, etc.).
I like to have a 2nd set of rims/tires whenever possible, the 2nd set having the smallest diameter rim as possible (and thicker sidewall tire) while still clearing the brakes. For example, a 4th generation non-SS F-body can accommodate 15″ aluminum 4×4 S10 Blazer rims with 225/60R15 tires with only slight modifications (need 1/8″ spacers because the positive offset of the S10 4×4 rims is slightly higher than the standard offset of the factory 16″ rims, and a tiny bit of rear-caliper shaving) while still maintaining the same overall tire diameter (nicer ride on regular bumpy roads compared to factory). Another example is a 7th generation Civic EX, which can accommodate 14″ rims instead of the factory 15″ rims, with 70-series tires instead of the factory 60-series
I am in the process of replacing the tires on my 12 Acura and am thinking about changing tire size. I currently have 245 50 17. I want to change to 235 55 17. Is this a good idea? What kind of change would i expect?
I would consider getting a 2nd set of rims that are smaller diameter, assuming they still fit around the calipers. I’m guessing 16″ or even 15″ rims might fit if you’re really lucky, with something like 235 60R16 tires (use a tire calculator to determine if the outside tire diameter is close enough to original). I’d think you’d notice a smoother ride this way, just IMO
I would, bit 16″ wont clear the brake calipers. Therefore i have to keep the 17s.
Maybe a little better mileage?
Also the speedo may be a tad off. Like dood said, a tire calculator will tell the tale.
AWD…another factor to lower fuel economy, plus added weight and expense/maintenance….
Rear wheel drive is the most fun…you can drift easier….and a purer driving experience…doesn’t effect the steering…
FWD is good in snow….
On an AWD car if one tire has to be replaced…due to damage or whatever…..you have to replace all of them…big $$$$…all the tires have to be exactly the same size and wear, or it will damage the car…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQFD3-jKokQ
Speaking only for myself, I do like having the all-wheel drive during the long Winter months. I have drive then rear-wheel drive (growing up), and then the front-wheel drive vehicles, as well. Front wheel drives are squirrely as hell in the Winter, with all the fish tailing that goes on when the roads are crappy. But, I did learn how to drive with one, despite that. At least with the all-wheel drive, the vehicle slides like a box. But no, you are right, in that it is a real drag when I have to replace all the tires, because one ended up with a hole in the side wall (unfixable), and I have to buy all new tires instead of just one. But then again, any of the above does not matter up here in these parts: Most of the drivers are just plain terrible, and all-wheel drive is not going to help any of them.
I tend to agree with you, but after 40+ years of Minnesota winter driving I think it’s tires, ground clearance and drivetrain. In that order. I have run snows on pretty much every type of vehicle you can imagine and never had any trouble.
Hi Yeti,
One of the best snow vehicles I’ve ever driven was an old VW Beetle. Rear engine put weight over the driven wheels, which were thin and tall and cut through the snow down to the pavement. The Germans knew how to make a car that goes in the snow without AWD.
Same. I had a 74 Super Beetle that was wonderful in the snow and an absolute blast on a frozen lake.
Too bad the stupid heat/defrost never worked…
Yes, the Minnesota winter I drove my 67 Karmann Ghia through I ended up getting pneumonia twice! And to this day my little sisters remind me about yelling at them to “Stop Breathing!” on the way to school…
Great Ad.
https://youtu.be/ABcckOTVqao?si=-q7-tjWAUsZM9inm
There appears to be another problem with Tesla’s ugly looking cyber truck..the demented EV pushers might ignore that and claim these EVs are “Safe and Effective!”….
https://rumble.com/v4rhb85-tesla-cybertruck-is-a-disaster.html
Aaah yes, “safe and effective”. Just like the COVID jab is! That should tell any thinking human all you need to know. And yeah, that is one, butt-ugly vehicle. Maybe someone can put a bag over that vehicle’s head or something…
Hi Shadow,
If these cybertrucks have all these problems (and they do), what other problems might other EVs have that governments pushing “EVs for all!” will simply IGNORE?
Hi John, If history shows us anything, as Pelosi says, “we have to pass the bill, so you can find out what’s in it”. We will learn of the problems of EV’s only after the Feds have banned ICE vehicles, either by stopping the flow of oil and gasoline, a law banning owners of ICE vehicles to repair said vehicles, such as what has happened elsewhere, or a combination of both. These same people can then claim stupidity and ignorance when further problems surface with EV’s on down the line, as more people are herded into them like cattle. Or, if history shows us anything, the corrupt Congress will force Americans to buy EV’s (or you walk everywhere-which is coming anyway), and then give the EV makers immunity liability protection. And then again, I probably should not give them any ideas.
There are reasons to go bigger. When the 55 MPH went away, I put bigger wheels on my Ram 4X because that was cheaper than changing out the gears and transfer case to get the higher road speed. My daughter’s ’07 Civic works better with 1″ bigger tires. Sure, she can’t “chirp” as easily, but that’s not all bad.
I had the CRX HF. What a fantastic car and yes, I regularly got mid-50s mpg. Manual, no ac, no sunroof, no power windows. Only a radio/cassette. I loved that thing.
I drove one for about a year. The thing was smoking pretty good from poor maintenance. I wish I would have put a 1.6 dohc mated with that tall gearing. It would have been a rocket still with close to 40 to 45 mpg.
I regret selling it.
The reviews on the new 2012 Pathfinder recommended 16 inch wheels for smoother handling, just a better world.
Don’t ask me why I chose a Nissan Pathfinder, a satisfied Pathfinder owner for years now, who happened to make the purchase.
The 4.0 V6 is the engine of choice.
Today is National Hydrocarbon Day. It is also National Carbohydrate Day. It will be National Hydrocarbon Day again tomorrow. It will be National Carbohydrate Day again, just like always, it’s an everyday thing.
You want sustenance? Have a healthy breakfast.
And to hell with Klaus the Idiot, Klaus made the choice, no one else. Wasted it all for not a single benefit. Klaus can tell us how it’s all going to happen, it’ll be a big help. After that, get lost. You eat zee bugs, Klaus, you deserve them.
I will go for the Dungeness crab myself.
You want mobility? Well, hydrocarbons to the rescue!
You are the stakeholder, nobody else. You are the decision-maker, keep it that way.
Go for it!
It’s a great day in America!
Not so great for the Warshingtonians.
My ‘79 Pontiac Gran Prix with stock wheels and tires, 14 inch rims and tires
195/75-14. You could bump up to a 70 series tire which I did once, a great set of Goodyear Eagle ST’s, with a set of generic gas shocks and the rear sway bar I added from the boneyard that car rode, drove and tracked wonderfully.
As the years rolled on and the cheapskate I am, went back to the 195/75s and the best deal going was Arizonian brand tires from Discount tire, $48 each. Quiet, reasonable life, no balance issues. Old Yeller drove just fine back and forth to work on those stockers.
I’m about to replace the tires on the ‘18 Jeep G. Cherokee it will be close to $1000 for those ridiculous size tires. 66k miles and it’s eaten two sets of tires. So much for the old days of 40 to 50k miles on a decent set of radials.
There are A LOT more reasons why I think they aren’t serious about gas mileage:
-The lack of decent small station wagons, or any station wagons, for that matter. Only Subaru makes an affordable station wagon, albeit a jacked up, AWD wagon. A station wagon is far better suited for hauling people and their luggage than those “crossovers.”
-The insistence on Saaaaaafety Uber Alles. I’m not advocating going back to the days of the Pinto, but the cars of a few years ago were plenty “safe” without weighing tons.
-The use of tiny turbocharged engines. While they may get better mileage “on paper,” in the real world, a turbocharged 2.0L four banger gets worse mileage than a 3.8L V6 without a turbocharger because the former has to work so much harder to do the same job. That’s doubly true if you haul a lot or live somewhere even a bit mountainous.
-The lack of affordable EU-spec compact diesel vehicles. Simple 1970s and 1980s small diesels made by VW and Mercedes Benz got an honest 35-50 MPG. Today’s technology means that they can get a lot more than that.
While the “energy crises” of the 1970s and early 1980s were largely crises of our own making, at least the solutions being pushed at the time seemed to have at least a kernel of sense. Today, well, not so much.
I despise what these safety people have done so much I would find a 60s classic to drive every day. I would modernize it with an overdrive, thick sway bars, tighter springs and maybe a rack. Of course, disc brakes. Otherwise nothing at all.
None if the improvements to ride, handling, braking and steering were ever mandated by NHTSA. All of the improvements arouse our if necessity (radial tires) or market forces (euro and japanese cars with better driving dynamics). Not one good thing from NHTSA
Here’s the other dirty, little secret. With improved tire tech such as advanced compounds that are both grippier and longer-lasting and new tread patterns, you don’t need these huge tires that provide a lot more rolling resistance and are a pain to change on the side of the road.
A friend has a Viper, which always had a reputation as being a scary car to drive. With modern tires, that car is a relative pussycat now.
I have two similiar older cars from the 2000’s cars except that one has low profile tires and the other has more traditional high profile tires. I like driving the one with the larger tires because the roads around here are so rough, and I believe the larger tires gives it a better ride. Is there typically a large difference in ride quality between low and high profile tires?
Hi Groundhog,
Tires with taller sidewalls cushion the ride vs. “low profile” tires that have short (and necessarily, stiffer) sidewalls. The latter are also much more susceptible to damage from pothole and curb strikes, because they have less give to absorb the impact forces without damage. The only real advantage of short-sidewall tires is sharper steering feel.
Interstate 40 across Arizona is a National Disgrace. I have travelled both ways a few times over the last several years, and it is one long potholed rumble strip.
I-70 says hi!
WA State I90 as well, worn out for decades.
Eric,
Back in the day, my uncle had a 1977 Toyota Corolla two door with a 1,200cc engine and a five speed stick. IIRC, it had 14″ wheels. Its highway mileage was in the mid 40s.
My Lincoln MKZ came with 19″ rims. I do not like the low profile tires. I have bent the rim once and had to replace tires twice both due to potholes, and I hit one last night that I have yet to examine the tire for damage. Taller sidewalls help absorb some of these large bumps. I never had to replace a tire or rim with other cars. The owners manual for my 1999 Lincoln Continental suggested I lower the PSI to 28 for a softer ride. I am thinking I may replace the tires and wheels with smaller rims and taller tires to try to prevent this damage.
Indeed, John –
The tall “rims” are usually shod with low-profile (short sidewall) tires that (all else being equal) detract from a smooth, quite ride and (as you have found out) are more vulnerable to damage as from curb strikes and potholes. The suspension has to compensate for the wheels/tires to get a decent ride but there’s no fix for the increased susceptibility to tire (and wheel) damage.
The only noticeable benefit is sharper steering response/feel. But it’s arguably hardly worth the downsides.
My Mk. IV Supra came from the factory with 16-inch tires, 225s on the front and 245s on the rear. If Toyota engineers thought that was more than enough tire, that’s enough for me. I’ve got aftermarket Ray’s wheels in the OEM size and won’t upgrade because the car doesn’t need them.
When I see Accords and Camrys rolling on 18s, that is absurd.
The worst are these “donks” in the South, with urban types putting suspension lifts on old rear-wheel American cars and putting 30-inch tires on them. So stupid.
Hi Dr. –
My ’76 TA has 15 inch wheels and – expert witness testimony here – the car handles as well or better than most new cars that have 17-18 inch “rims.” There are few things more idiotic than a transportation appliance that is never driven anywhere near its limits riding around on 17-18 inch “rims.”
Gnomesayin’?
Here’s the other dirty, little secret. With improved tire tech such as advanced compounds that are both grippier and longer-lasting and new tread patterns, you don’t need these huge tires that provide a lot more rolling resistance and are a pain to change on the side of the road.
A friend has a Viper, which always had a reputation as being a scary car to drive. With modern tires, that car is a relative pussycat now.
It says a lot about my fleet that the largest wheel size on my cars is a 15 inch. Funny thing is the larger tire sidewall helps compensate for potholed streets better. 15 inch tires are more affordable although some sizes are harder to find now.
Well, I do have Twennies… but they came stock on my 66 International!
Anyone driving on those rims around here better have a supply of spares, the VW size potholes will bend those suckers in no time. The Uniparty was falling all over itself to rush our money to Keeeev and Israhell while our roadways revert to dirt; shows who they care about, and it’s not us.
Hi Mike,
Speaking of that MASSIVE aid package for Ukraine, Israel, AND Taiwan, there was a music video made about 15 years ago that seems to be more & more true every year……it’s called “The Government Can”….
https://youtu.be/LO2eh6f5Go0?si=WypvN-UVprDb4zhH
They care; enough to import non local contractors who extend crosswalks with concrete blobs to narrow arterial streets.
I used to watch Judge Joe Brown when that show was on television, and it was astounding how many deadbeat dads were on being sued for child support payments by the mother because the dads were MORE concerned with getting fancy schmancy rims for their vehicles than financially helping out with raising their kids. Men being more concerned with getting fancy toys like rims for their automobiles than with being MEN and being DADS to any children they have is likely another reason this country has been deteriorating.
Let’s not overlook the women who are at work (so they can buy another 10 pairs of $500 shoes to go with the 100 pairs they already have but don’t wear) instead of being a mother to the children that are their responsibility to care for.
Or the women who have 5+ children to get more support payments for their personal addictions.
Let’s not forget that men are working their asses off because they can’t buy anything for themselves because they have a $2,500 a month mortgage for the Mcmansion that their wife must have or else she’ll leave and he’ll never see his children again.
Hi John,
Yes, even women can be guilty of what you speak of. They probably subscribed to the feminist (was it Gloria Steinem) thinking that women needed men like fish needed a bicycle.
And that is tragic, John, because there are some things that these women can never teach their children what a father can. They can be a mother, and a good one. But, there are things that only a man can teach his son or daughter, period! Any wonder, then, that most (mostly men) who are in jail, the majority of them had no fathers growing up? Feminists like Jane Fonda and Gloria Steinem make real women look bad, and bad men make real women want to say “screw this, I will be alone, happy, and with a cat and a dog”. It is even more sad how the “divide-and-conquer” strategy among the sexes has worked so well for so many years. Ironic, in how it only seems to benefit the government, and the rest of the “woke” country does not even seem to notice or care.
But people like big wheels. We know they like them because small wheels don’t sell well, even with the obvious benefits. You know, like how people like to be able to travel confidently, knowing that they won’t be waiting for hours at charging stations…
Oh wait! I have an idea! Why not get the regulators to FORCE manufacturers to go back to baby-buggy wheels? That way “we” can achieve our goal of even greater fuel economy, which is what Premiere O’Biden demands.
Even better, a diameter tax! Every wheel must be measured and reported to the ministry of revenue. Regulators will make surprise visits to factories to insure compliance. Better yet, require office space and room on the production line for the regulators to insure your wheels are in compliance. And if not, well, you’ll just have to pay the fee.
Oh, but what about farm equipment? No, they get an exemption, along with commercial vehicles -but only if you fill out the proper forms and declare your vehicle status annually. This will be deducted from your tax liability at the time of filing, if applicable. The auditors will be checking, so make sure you don’t make a mistake.
Yet some vehicles stay true to their roots. The Porsche 911 for example. Still instantly recognizable as is the VW Golf.
Some designs never age, thinking the Studebaker Lark, Karman Ghia, Jaguar E-Type.
Another factor of mileage long forgotten is aerodynamics.
Once upon a time, or was highly touted in automotive advertising.
When Lexus first introduced the GS300, they prominently touted the car’s Coefficient of Drag (Cd) of 0.28
That rivaled the Corvette of the day.
Now, we’re treated to designs as efficient as a 1960’s Winnebago.
*sigh*
The ghetto influence on American culture goes beyond the stupid looking 17″ wheels. There’s the big ghetto ass, the ghetto vulgarity, the ghetto stupidity as a virtue, ghetto “music”, and the ghetto temper which leads to ghetto style violence.
I absolutely despise ghetto culture myself. But I do have to admit it tends to deter thugs and bullies. State enforcers only go after ghetto types in packs, and preferably when they are out of their own pack. Much easier to go after a white kid or twenty something, and there is more money in it. Like every schoolyard bully, they steal the lunch money from those that can’t or won’t fight back.
Ernie,
Regarding state enforcers….I have been following a story in Indiana where a AGW pulled and threw to the ground a 90LB schoolgirl for not producing her driving license fast enough. The PD and Town was at first defending this creep until the video went viral, now they backtracked after 2.4MM around the nation responded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=817BItUQETQ
Hi Hans,
That cop is a sadistic psychopath – and a pussy, on top of that. Big tough dude – roughing up an 18-year-old girl. I hope he meets his reward in a dark alley someday. May his weapon jam and back-up be 15 minutes away.
Whatever male friends or acquaintances he might have should absolutely shun this piece of shit for his violent conduct toward a defenseless girl. Or better yet, administer a good beating.
Vancouver WA-PD is having difficulty taking down 90LB schoolgirls during traffic stops and is interested in former officer Schemmell to come out to Washington and provide a jujitsu seminar in girl handling techniques. Manhandling will be by another instructor.
I’m surprised he didn’t shoot her so he could “go home at the end of his shift.”
Yes, it happens so often and is so well known now that it isn’t even noteworthy. It is entirely possible to spend a lifetime watching video of it on the web, even heavily controlled sites like YouTube.
They don’t understand that the government tormentors are only a small fraction of the population, and that all their power comes from consent. At this point there is no consent, at least not among the people I associate with. So they are importing millions of reinforcements and practicing outright repression up to and including outright terrorism in an attempt to maintain control.
‘Wide-collared shirts and bell bottom corduroys were also once au currant.’ — eric
Looking back fifty years, we are struck by how differently proportioned cars were then. The three-foot extension of the trunk behind the rear wheels on a 1970 Dodge Charger — though aesthetically faultless — reminds us of a 19th century grande dame’s long-tailed skirt bustle, which today exists only in the realm of steampunk cosplay:
https://www.steampunkfashionguide.com/p/bustle-skirt.html
As Eric points out, its 15-inch ‘Magnum’ wheels look diminutive by today’s standards, whose governing aesthetic is a child’s toy truck with caricaturishly exaggerated wheels.
It isn’t hard to guess that from the perspective of 2074, today’s giant-wheeled yet relentlessly, anonymously bland appliances will look similarly antiquated. But will anyone bother to collect or restore them, with their plastic parts, colorful touchscreens, and hopelessly obsolete chips?
You can buy a ‘Working Apple IIe With Two Disk II Drives’ — a piece of technological history — for a derisory $450.00. Which is about the long-term salvage value of a $50,000 transportation appliance purchased today, assuming you aren’t obliged to PAY for its disposal.
One hundred years from this day
Will the people still feel this way
Still say the things that they’re saying right now
Nobody knows what kind of trouble we’re in
Nobody seems to think it all might happen again
— Gram Parsons, One Hundred Years From Now
Funny thing about that long and low trunk deck: It kept the road salt and dirt off the back window and the following car’s windshield. Sure, it tended to collect in the wheel wells and fenders causing them to rust out prematurely, but no need for rear wipers and gallons of washer fluid.
Ascetically speaking, it “finished” the vehicle. The econobox hatches of the 1980s that have grown into today’s SUVs, with their truncated trunks, look like someone forgot the back. Just a big wall of glass and steel with a broken wiper blade hanging off the mag-chloride coated lift door.
Today’s ugly cars…..
All cars are designed for the Chinese market now…
At least someone likes these ugly cars….
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder…..