Battery Swaps Will Never Work

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One of the fascinating things about all the problems with EVs is that people keep trying to come up with work-arounds rather than concede EVs are the problem – and stop trying to find work arounds. The solution to the problem of EVs is to abandon them – as people did a century ago, when it became clear the way to avoid the problems you got when you owned an EV was to drive something that wasn’t an EV – and didn’t have the problems.

This apparently takes time to penetrate some people’s heads.

Meanwhile, some people continue to look for “solutions” to the EV’s two main problems – their short-leash driving range and their long recharge times. These are compound problems, too. If it didn’t take so long to recharge an EV – best case scenario, at least 20-30 minutes at what some people have been taught to refer to as a “fast” charger, to get a partial (80 percent) charge – then it wouldn’t be a problem even if they could only go 200 or so miles before running low on charge.

At least, it would not be a serious problem – if you could get going again in five minutes or less with a fully charged battery.

Conversely, having to wait for 20-30 minutes to recover a partial charge would be less of a problem if an EV’s battery pack were capable of storing enough electricity to provide enough power to go at least 600 miles in between charges. Not 20 percent less than whatever’s indicated – as is generally true.

This would reduce the amount of time spent waiting for a charge, which would compensate for the time you’d still have to spend waiting for a charge. It’d still be 20-30 minutes. But it’d be just once a week rather than twice a week.

Of course, you’d still have the same basic problems.

Some people think they have the solution. You have probably already heard about it. Rather than spend time waiting for the EV’s battery to recharge, just swap out the battery. Superficially, this sounds like a good solution because most people will immediately think of other battery powered devices, such as cordless power tools. These typically come with a spare battery – so that when the one that’s powering the drill or whatever it is starts to get tired, you just pop it out and pop in the fully charged one that’s been sitting on the charger while you were working.

But “popping in” (and out) an EV battery is not such a simple thing.

First, obviously, they are extremely heavy – so you won’t be “popping in” (or out) anything. It would have to be done by a machine in some kind of automated facility – and that will get into money. Who is going to pay for that?

It would also not be easy – because EV batteries are not easy to get at. They are buried in the floorpans and take up (typically) most of the length and width of the floorpan. To get at one – let alone remove/replace one – it would be necessary to remove the body first. In order to get at what is styled the “skate” underneath. So you’d need a machine capable of removing (or at least, lifting) the body off the skate to get at the battery, without damaging either the body or the battery.

This will also get into money. And it will certainly take time. Perhaps not as much time as it takes to partially recharge a an EV’s battery pack – but longer than it takes to fully refill a gas tank.

Another problem is that while EVs are basically all the same, their batteries are different, in terms of their shape, their electrical connections and power output. So our hypothetical battery-swap joint would have to stock an inventory of different-make-model EV batteries to have the one you need in stock. These batteries would also need to be hooked up continuously to trickle charge apparatus to keep them charged (and warm and not too cold, too) while they’re waiting to be swapped – otherwise they’d lose charge – and there would need to be additional storage (and charge hook-ups/capacity) for the turned-in/discharged batteries.

Problems not solved.

Well, say the problem-solvers, it could be done faster – if EV batteries were standardized and one-size-fits all. And if EVs were designed the same way, so that it would be easier and presumably faster to lift the body off the skate and slide the old battery out and the new/charged-up battery in.

Maybe faster. But not as fast as pumping 15 gallons into a tank. And never mind the cost of making everything the same, so as to solve a problem that could be fixed at a stroke by acknowledging that EVs are the problem – and the solution is to stop forcing them on people until they solve the problems.

If they ever do, then it wouldn’t be necessary to force them on people.

But – aye – that’s precisely the problem . . . with EVs.

. . .

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  1. My neighbor bought his little girl a battery powered jeep for Christmas. Unhappy with the wimpy little 6V battery, he wired one of the new Dewalt 20V batteries into the thing. Now she can do burnouts and he can hot swap the batteries so play time doesn’t need to end waiting for a charge.

    The only successful EV on the planet.

  2. As an engineer friend of mine once said, “Anything is possible if you have enough time and money.”

    The only problem is, neither is in unlimited supply. In the case of an interchangeable battery pack, there are just too many massive variables to make it viable.

    And for what?

    To solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

    This is what you get when the kids that sat around arguing if physics ceased to exist sans their presence take over. You know, if a tree falls and no one is around does it make a noise?

    Now, if we can only figure out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin…then we solve the EV problems.

    • You know, if a tree falls and no one is around does it make a noise?

      If an EV is charging and nobody is around to watch it while it’s charging, is time still passing? If you ask an EV “enthusiast”, the answer is probably no – charging an EV only takes a few seconds.

  3. The best way to get the slaves out of their cars is to weaponize the cars against the slaves….then they will hate using the car, make it a horrible experience…that rats them out….then they will be glad when the cars are gone.

    Everything is weaponized against the slave…..the legal system, big pharma…the medical system, the government, organized religion, the education system, big farma…the food suppliers…,Hollywood,…all the media, all the electronic devices, life on prison planet….

    • Everything is weaponized against the slave…..

      like big pharma…the medical system…..but the slaves believe the bs from big pharma, submit to it….. obey it….worship it….a dangerous mistake…

      big farma…the food suppliers, the left hand of big pharma….the slaves love it, trust it…eat all it’s crap….and end up sick….then a customer for big pharma….

  4. The big problem is that battery packs are very expensive wear items. Any sort of battery exchange program will be gamed and cheated by people looking to off-load a battery pack that is at or near EOL. There will also be people who have damaged or modified their battery packs looking to get something that is messed up. Who will be the victim? Probably not the exchange company but rather the poor soul who exchanges a good battery pack in good faith and gets a faked up lump. Who was in the wrong? The finger pointing begins around no less than three different parties. And that’s if good records and no false IDs or battery ID tag swapping was done. The scammers of course will be a user of the swap system for at least half dozen swaps and will swap the packs’ identities around and use false ID. Good luck. And cops will probably shrug and say it’s a civil matter.

  5. It’s quite possible for tool and implement manufacturers to devise a common standard for rechargeable, swappable batteries, and likely there’d be overall benefit not only to the consumer, but to the industry overall. And you can betcher botoom dollar that as soon as there’s any serious discussions about that sort of industry standard, ISO and all, the US Justice Department will file “anti-competitive” lawsuits against the bigger companies.

    • Unlikely. With anything battery powered the battery is how to differentiate the products.
      It’s voltage, energy capacity, discharge current, charge current. etc. BEVs are generic enough but with a standard battery they really become practically fungible.

  6. Years ago, when I was the fleet director for a city in N. California, I was approached by a company called “Better Place,” who was promoting the battery-swap concept. Their business model was based on the eventual standardization of EV batteries. That would have been the time to do it, as the segment was really in its infancy. Unfortunately that ship has sailed, and it’s clear that standardization is never going to happen. Didn’t happen in time for Better Place, and they ended up defunct. Crazy to think of the infrastructure, energy and effort needed for this form of “refueling.”

    • Standardization of the battery in an EV means standardization of the car as the the device is literally built around the battery. The wheelbase would have to be the sane. The width, the electrical connections inside the device, the voltage, overcurrent trip setpoint, computer battery control and monitoring software all the same. This brings us back to Erics point about there being no substantial differences between a Mercedes and a Hyundai. The battery swap compatibility would force them to be essentially the same device.
      That still doesn’t solve anything because the exchanged batteries will then require a charge. There can only be so many charge stations in the exchange facility, they will likely be always full at maximum current limits. And they won’t charge any faster outside the devices.
      Oh your battery exchange, you are next in line, 30 to prepare the pack now we add??? Minutes to do the swap.
      From where I sit, no advantage to the swap idea.
      The exchanged batteries STILL must be charged.
      Also think about the KWh of the pack, quite a few different ones, a Taycan needs more than an ID4. Different batteries. Of course they could upset the driver if he is desperate enough. Oh sorry your size isn’t available but for an additional fee……
      It doesn’t get better

      • You can’t fix even these stupid EV’s…unless you go to a very expensive dealership for repairs..(the trend is to no dealerships like Tesla…only service centers…500 to 1000 miles away)…..

        since 1996 ice cars have had OBD2 ports which makes diagnostics/repairs easier….the EV’s have no standards at all….no OBD2 ports, nothing….good luck trying to do diagnostics…(goodbye to all the independent repair shops…crucified)… they are the most unreliable, trouble prone vehicles ever invented…..even the dealers can’t fix them….

        Any major problems?….just throw it in the landfill to catch fire and pollute for 100 years…lol

        • Deign to differ on OBD2. I’ve been repairing, restoring, and building vehicles for 50 plus years. OBD2 codes are generally so generic as to be diagnostically ambiguous, frequently useless, and often counterproductive in that it points to the wrong symptom. Older is better. Simple systems which can be diagnosed and repaired efficiently by smart/capable/experienced people are vastly better. I will say that I’m rather fond of owner controlled electronics like Megasquirt and its variants.

          • Right….

            repairing something simple is far easier…if it only has a carburetor and a distributor, no computer, no sensors, it is easier to track down what is wrong.

            The new cars are very complicated, with many sensors and multiple computers….OBD2 makes these easier to diagnose…sometimes….if there is no fault code then it gets more complicated…a problem can be caused by many different things….new ice cars are a pain in the ass to repair, work on….

            These new EV’s are very complicated and have no OBD2 port so you can scan them…(ice cars were required to have them)….so they are even harder to diagnose….you have to go back to the dealer…even they can’t figure out how to fix them… not buy one…..

            All the EV’s have different designs and standards…so it is a big shit show….good luck getting one fixed….lol

    • Amen, Keith –

      And I circle back to the underlying problem. Which is that there is no problem. The “climate” is not “changing” – at least not in an existentially dangerous way, on account of people driving cars. So there is no need for EVs – and all the problems that come along for the ride. Pull the plug.

  7. Short-range, inconvenience, high cost, these are NOT the real problem with EV. Those are actually features not bugs.
    The EV is being pushed to limit our mobility and to track us when are mobile and be able to restrict our use via OTA updates or completely immobilize us remotely if you misbehave.
    The fun part is you won’t get out of it by borrowing your neighbors car. Silly boy, your iLeash tells all.
    No there will never be a solution to these problems. Deliberate features they are.

  8. I remember Elon’s much hyped Tesla battery swap demonstration – showing us the wave of Tesla battery genius that was soon coming to a Tesla battery swap station near you!

    (See video here:)

    Upon seeing the demo, which Elon wouldn’t show the business end of the swap, but rather kept it hidden like a David Copperfield illusion’s trap door, I knew it would be dead on arrival, for a myriad of reasons. Musk is a master of hype, out doing John Deloren by factor of 20x’s. DeLoren’s grift was on a kindergartners level by comparison to Tesla.

    Weight is your biggest enemy with any car, especially EV’s. Weight is proportional to the size of the battery, which is proportional to the range, which is proportional to the weight; so your in this vicious cycle.

    No one talks about this elephant in the room, because there is no easy solution; other than – making a short range, lighter, “city range only” EV. Such a car I wouldn’t care to see anymore than I did the SMART car of yesteryear.

    Give me combustion, or give me death!

    • If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come. It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter.

      Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?

      Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me ICEs or give me death!

      As he concluded, Patrick Henry plunged an ivory paper knife toward his chest in imitation of the Roman patriot Cato the Younger.

      If I could stick my pen in my heart
      And spill it all over the stage
      Would it satisfy ya, would it slide on by ya
      Would you think the boy is strange?
      Ain’t he strange?

      — Rolling Stones, It’s Only Rock ‘n Roll (But I Like It)

  9. Technically, battery swaps can be made to work, you just have to design cars around that. Of course, it’ll add weight since the battery can’t be structural anymore since it’s removable, but I’m sure it can be worked out.

    Say that battery swaps are convenient; who owns the battery? If you buy a battery with your car, you’re not going to want to swap your brand new one with some heavily used one. If someone else owns it, you’re going to pay a lot for that swap because any sensible businessperson is going to amortize the cost of battery degradation into the lease price. Right now, when you buy an EV, you are the bagholder of a degrading battery, and this is reflected in the massive loss of value of used EV’s.

    • Maybe easier for over the road trucks, since the batteries could be mounted as saddle packs, easily swappable using a forklift. Larger and heavier than fuel saddle tanks, but easily accessible.

      >you’re not going to want to swap your brand new one with some heavily used one.
      Doesn’t matter. You would be paying for a charge, not possession of the charge bearing device. As long as the battery pack holds its charge, you got what you paid for. Of course you, the motor vehicle operator, would not want to own it. But since it would likely be swapped out at a different location from where it was swapped in, ownership would be an issue, which I expect could be worked out, one way or another.

      >Right now, when you buy an EV, you are the bagholder of a degrading battery

      if you don’t own the battery, that issue goes away. “Batteries not included” could become standard industry practice. “Power by DeWalt” (e.g.) could become a standard. Perhaps the vehicle purchaser signs a “battery service contract” with a battery pack supplier, or…??? who knows? The EV industry is in its infancy, and many forms of innovation are possible.

      >you’re going to pay a lot
      I expect that to be likely, since you would not be able to move without a fresh charge.

      >the battery can’t be structural anymore
      I doubt any existing EV battery packs are used as structural elements, but I could be wrong.
      Please refer to picture accompanying the article above. Those battery packs are not structural elements.

      • “I doubt any existing EV battery packs are used as structural elements, but I could be wrong.
        Please refer to picture accompanying the article above. Those battery packs are not structural elements.”

        They definitely are structural now, but this was not always the case, see article below. Those rare earth metals are heavy AF and very dense. EV batteries take the brunt of impacts.

        • Interesting, and thanks for the link.
          Cant really tell much from photos. I would love to see the engineering drawings. If it is just a honeycomb structure (Al casting), then the individual cells could be swapped out, but the article says:

          >If the batteries are part of the car structure, you either get them to last as much as the car itself, or you have to get rid of the vehicle altogether if anything goes sour with them. A million-mile battery would probably solve this issue,

          Seems to me to be a poor design decision, but WTF do I know?
          Having to junk a five year old *expensive* auto because *some* of the battery cells have failed seems really stupid, to me. I would not buy, or lease, one.

          • You still have to charge the blasted things. Takes amps. LOTS of amps. A station like a typical Buckee would probably needs its own 13.2kv feeder and substation. Looking at $7 million easy. Then someone tell me where the frack will you get the power? The zoomers think electricity just comes out of the wall.

      • Hey Jim. Yeah,,, hand the cash to Ukraine and the rest. They launder it into the US Arms industry which then hands dough to the traitors in DC as campaign contributions. Got to give it to them,,, hell of a scam.

        Oh,,, 300 million for border guards! ……. Ukraine border guards that is.

        451 billion spent on illegals…. so far. Illegals complain about housing and food and that Americano’s do not speak their language. They know the corporate cons are raking in the tax dough and Americans citizens have zero (ZERO) say in any of it. 535 creeps in DC selling out.

        ROFLMAO,,, Americans paying for their own demise. The funny part will be watching them rush to the polls this fall doing the same thing time and time and time and time and …… time again looking for their cut of the action. Insanity runs rampant in the USA.

    • I’d rather have organized a world wide “Sieg Hell”, to take place at 1830 Hours, Central European Time, with all participants facing towards Brannau, Austria. Promotizing Nazism? Hardly, I don’t give a damn about it, but whatever pisses off a J-O-O is fine by me.

  10. Congress Clownette Debbie Dingell (D-Mich), author of the notorious Section 24220 alcohol sensor kill switch legislation, does a startling imitation of Keith Richards, in a photo published by thehill dot com:

    Or — I could be wrong — maybe it IS Keith Richards, wearing a wig and pearl necklace.

    I met a gin-soaked barroom queen in Memphis
    She tried to take me upstairs for a ride
    She had to heave me right across her shoulder
    ‘Cause I just can’t seem to drink you off my mind

    — Rolling Stones, Honky Tonk Women

  11. Bill Gates showed the way of the future: get your own farmland before the oil is gone and live the way of the Amish. Affordable oil made the 20th century and when it’s gone the survivors are back to the family farm.

  12. “I will build a motor car for the great multitude…constructed of the best materials, by the best men to be hired, after the simplest designs that modern engineering can devise…so low in price that no man making a good salary will be unable to own one-and enjoy with his family the blessing of hours of pleasure in God’s great open spaces.” –Henry Ford

    a) for the great multitude
    ICE: Yes due to its affordability at lower end of income class
    EV: No, out of reach unless you want to go neck deep in debt

    b) constructed of the best materials

    ICE: Used to be American steel (which could be recycled at the end of its life). Now largely plastic that will not degrade much over time.

    EV: Same plastic but now along with dangerous and volatile batteries

    c) by the best men to be hired

    Both: DIE, need I say more.

    d) after the simplest designs that modern engineering can devise

    Both: Modern ICE and EVs are foolishly complex, impossible to service. Complexity comes in the form of federal diktats and unnecessary ‘features’ involved in a simple conveyance tool.

    e) so low in price that no man making a good salary will be unable to own one

    Even low end cars are expensive; making a person ask “how much is it a month” instead of “how much is it”. 7+ years financing on a car / truck. Crazy. And, the insidious tax known as inflation has made real income go down to where disposable income is a pipe dream. Good jobs were automated or sent overseas in search of lower wages. After all “good salary” is typically the largest expense in business.

    f) enjoy with his family the blessing of hours of pleasure in God’s great open spaces.

    Ummm, yeah. Have you been on I-65 lately?

    • The plastic is fragile and deteriorates over time. Try getting a replacement bumper for a 20-something year old vehicle which matches the original fit. It is getting increasingly difficult as time goes on and manufacturers clean out warehouses.

  13. Wow. All you have to do is *dream* and all your problems will be solved, and your desires fulfilled. Hope is not an engineering tactic: (A quote from a field engineer on the Deep-Water Horizon Oil Rig when a dreaming BP official thought he had solved a problem.)

    “The second takeaway from the incident is expressed by one of the maintenance crew when a BP official manipulated crew members to conduct dangerous tests hoping the results would confirm his conclusions that all was well. The maintenance crew member said that “hope is not a tactic,” meaning that the BP official should halt the testing until confirmation that the well was sound, instead he hedged a bet that nothing was wrong with the well based on a test he “hoped” would confirm his assessment of the situation. In reality, death was the result of that hope.”

  14. “Well, say the problem-solvers, it could be done faster – if EV batteries were standardized and one-size-fits all.”

    Sure. Take a look at your EV connector. THere’s about 10 pins on the thing, only two of which are used by your particular vehicle at that particular charging station. And you still need adaptors if charging from one of the many NEC defined connectors available at home or the job site. And that’s just the connector.

    I have a few cordless power tools from one company. The battery packs all work on all the different tools, basically locking me into their brand. But after a few years there were new batteries available, smaller cheaper and higher capacity. Of course they use a different connector. So do I trash all my power tools that use the old style battery (that happens to not be manufactured any more)? or do I junk all the old stuff? Luckily some off-brand Chinese factory is still cranking out the old style battery using the new chemistry, so I found a solution of sorts, but it always gives me pause when charging, and I certainly don’t leave the Chinesium batteries on the charger indefinitely -which is something you probably shouldn’t do with lithium batteries no matter who makes them.

    Thing is, we can harp all we want about the manufacturers tendency to abandon old mating surfaces when there’s a new battery tech introduced, but there are some real engineering reasons for not having backwards compatibility. Electrical connections might not be hardy enough to handle the increased current. Maybe the new battery is much lighter, so now your nicely balanced tool is top-heavy. By locking engineers into a standard, especially for what would be a major subassembly of a car, you’re locking design. And because so much of an EV is defined by the battery, you are also locking up technological advancement.

    Once again, I have to go back to the aviation well. With the certification standards applied to airframes and power plants, the now ancient Lycoming flat six that runs on leaded gas, manually operated carburetors and won’t ever be changed is still the workhorse of general aviation. It’s ridiculous that a 70 year old design is still in general use, but there you are. Lycoming and Cessna have no desire to pay the unbelievable cost to get a new design through the FAA certification process, so that’s what you get. And if you do upgrade (there’s a company that modifies Mercedes diesel engines for aviation use, even running on JET-A if you wish, and they have certification docs from the FAA, but if you install it on a plane you have to stencil the word “EXPERIMENTAL” over the door. Sure, it’s a much safer engine, but are you going to convince your passengers that the stencil is just a formality? FWIW, I’ve flown in kit aircraft (with the builder) and I felt perfectly safe, but then again a little knowledge is a dangerous thing…

    • RK,

      Do you remember the Porshe Mooney from the 1980s? There was an effort to power a Mooney with a Porsche flat 6 instead of the typical Lycosaurus mill. The PFM Mooney also had an early FADEC; it had one lever instead of the normal three. For whatever reason, the PFM Mooney never got traction; it was discontinued. As a pilot, I would’ve LOVED single lever control! I would’ve loved not having to worry about the fuel, mixture, and prop controls. The workload would’ve been so much less that I can’t understand why more pilots didn’t go for it.

      • Same reason why people like a manual transmission. Start automating too much and you might start looking at your phone or abusing the relief tube.

        Besides… if it ain’t broke, why replace it?

        • For a light plane, I can understand that. However, once an airplane becomes sufficiently complex, a pilot will appreciate a reduction in workload wherever it can be found.

  15. ‘the solution is to stop forcing them on people’ — eric

    Speaking of forcing things on people, yesterday (the anniversary of the Waco and OKC bombings) the Senate whooped through the RISAA Act (warrantless surveillance), in which an ‘electronic communication service provider’ is defined as anybody who owns a router, meaning all of us.

    Today, for Hitler’s birthday, the House of Ill Repute is expected to whoop through $60 billion for Kyiiiiiiiiiv; $26 billion for muh Isra-uhl; and $8 billion for the Indo-Pacific. An NYT quote says it all:

    ‘In the end, [Speaker Mitt Johnson], himself an ultraconservative [sic] who had previously voted against funding Ukraine’s war effort, circumvented his right flank and was relying on Democrats to push the measure through.’

    Our rural post office just ended overnight mail service and same-day mail dispatch. But ‘we’ can blow $95 billion on conniving foreign parasites. I retch in disgust.

    • Agree, Jim H.

      English truly is the second language nowadays. And, congress is bought and paid for by “the lobby” and the MIC. As for the proletariat –screw ’em is the attitude of the uniparty bourgeois.

    • Second that Jim,
      While the roads and bridges here in the USSA are falling apart Clowngress keeps sending umpteen billions of borrowed dollars to foreigners, despite all the handwringing about “the deficit”. Everett Dirksen must be spinning in his grave, “a million here, a million there, soon you’re talking real money” sounds so quaint today.

    • I never understood why it was called Oklahoma City bombing. Like the whole city was bombed instead of only the fed building. Goverment buerocrats always think they are the state poeple and the city. The rest of the population is irelevant flora and fauna.

    • Both of us are retching in disgust, Jim. I read that coming home from having a nice lunch with the familia today and shared some choice four letter words about our pathetic ass Congress. My personal fav…Democrats and Republicans waving little Ukrainian flags after the vote passed. This country used to hang traitors…now we elect them to public office.

      • Morning, RG (and Jim) –

        The one upside to this, as I see it, is that the effrontery of it is so extreme that people are beginning to see they are ruled by an alien government that represents interests antithetical to their own. As you say, these people are traitors. And the more who recognize this, the better it will be, in time.

  16. For a swap scheme to work, the entire auto industry would have to agree on a common design to make it happen. Yes, the “battery station” would have to be large and cost a ton of money. It could be done, but never will be.

    Whether it can or will or won’t isn’t the point. The overlords don’t care if you are inconvenienced. They want you to be so you will use public transportation or move to a walkable prison city.

    No one should be living in the hinterlands, spoiling the pristineness of mother nature and all her peaceful glory. If not for humans, the deer and antelope would be able to play.

    Farms can be turned back over to nature and your “protein source” can be grown in warehouses in the aforementioned cities. /s/

  17. Battery swaps might work in China for some lightweight “skates”, but those vehicles would never be approved for sale in the US out of concerns for saaaaafety.

    The Amiga Forever crowd has successfully pushed back the day of EV reckoning to a time when the alternatives will no longer exist and they don’t have to argue the merits of their platform to the heretics.

  18. The only EV that ever worked well were those little slot cars we played with when we were young. Later when we were older and smarter we played with those COX engined toys that sounded like an over revved chainsaw if you could get them started, darn glow plugs. Let’s not forget model rockets.

    Shoot we really had better toys than the kids have today…

    If I’ve learned anything over the years it’s that ethanol is for drinking, gasoline is for your engine and electricity is for lights and stationary devices (toasters, drill presses etc).

    I ran an electric forklift as a teenager and all you did was plug it in at the end of your shift or if you didn’t need it for a few hours. Everything else was propane or diesel at that yard.

    I’ll consider believing this will work when the oligarchs and the apparatchiks are flying in all EV planes to trans pacific destinations and being shuttled in EV armored cars. Not till then though.

    • “I’ll consider believing this will work when the oligarchs and the apparatchiks are flying in all EV planes to trans pacific destinations and being shuttled in EV armored cars. Not till then though”

      When Air Force One and The Beast are EVs, then I might believe EVs are OK. Just like when I might believe that government schools are OK when the Clintons and Obamas send their kids there.

      But the Secret Service probably told the Obamas and Clintons, “We think sending your kids to a school where the kids are more heavily armed than we are is not advisable”; they may have told ol’ Sleepy Joe, “We think vehicles which can spontaneously combust are not advisable.”

  19. Embraer X has 2800 orders for flying cars.

    No tires, no wheels, you just fly the flying car. 2,000,000,000 can use flying cars at any time, well, Embraer seems to think the market is there.

    Carbon fiber, plastics, batteries, provide electricity, you can fly the flying car. Flying cars will need electric motors, not engines, electricity will be the engine.

    In the air will be where it is all at. The future of electric vehicle transportation has arrived.

    Actually does make more sense.

    EVs with four wheels will become obsolete for a means of transport, but don’t have to go away forever. An ICE vehicle will be the first choice, hands down. If I drive 10 miles in a day, the gas used is about 1/2 gallon or $1.75.

    I am where I want to be in less than 10 minutes, groceries and you are back home dancing a jig.

    The stakeholders and decision-makers make all of the calls, more war it is.

    WEF, Where Economics Fails. They’re milking a dry cow, porterhouse time.

    An Embraer jet is one nice airplane.

    • Hi drumphish. While I agree that flying cars are a neat idea one problem you fail to consider is security. What happens if some group hacks them and uses thousands or millions of them to create mayhem? And that’s why they will never be common for a long time. If you look at all the sh*tboxes on the road and then imagine them flying over head you’ll know why you won’t have one any time soon.

      Also I can’t see them being energy efficient enough for regular use.

      • Hi Landru (and Drump) –

        Weight is everything in aviation. The heavier an airplane, the more energy it takes to get it airborne. Batteries are immensely heavy. Absent a – sigh – “breakthrough” – this ain’t a goin’ no damn where, literally. Per the Toothless Man.

        • As much as I would like this idea to save my 1:15 airport commute, I don’t think it’s going to be feasible either, other than a very short 10-15minute flight. It’s simply a weight vs power required, and nothing will come remotely close to kerosene (jet fuel). Then e-drones would be grounded for a very long time to charge, which doesn’t work in commercial transportation.
          Now if someone can come up with a small air-taxi that uses jet fuel, ohhh it exists………….. a helicopter………….. and only the ultra rich can afford/use them.
          Then the elite’s can’t have sheep in the air either. It will be regulated to the moon to avoid any sheep from being able to afford it. Kinda like helicopters today.

      • I follow aviation stocks, not airlines, to get the feel of what aviation has become.

        Wheels Up (UP) is a different kind of airline company, mostly charter, I think.

        For 2.50 per share, you can own some.

        Xti Aerospace (XTIA) has a vertical take off airplane that uses engines. You can own a share for 2.80 USD.

        EVE, Embraer X, is 5.28 per share.

        There is a future in personal aviation. Plenty of instrumentation to make it happen, might just be for specific uses like for military purposes, but it is here.

        Laser gyroscopes, spectroscopy, gas chromatographs, more knowledge exists in the real world than ever before. Just have to make good use of it all.

        Walk ten miles, you’ll need some food and rest. You’ll be tired to work for a day.

        SJIM, inverse Cramer ETF, is the most actively traded ticker on the NYSE. Highest flying ticker evah.

        Get those steaks chicken-fried
        Oh, my mama, ain’t that Texas cookin’ somethin’
        Ain’t that Texas cookin’ good
        Keep your belly and backbone from bumpin’
        Eat it every day if I could
        – Guy Clark, Texas Cookin’

        • Easiest way to make a million bucks in aviation is to start with a billion.

          Just because all those sensors exist doesn’t mean the FAA gives a shit about your startup. They hold all the cards and deal from the bottom of the deck. It’s a chummy little club and no one wants to rock the boat by allowing a bunch of newcomers into the airspace. Maybe you can convince some brass balled general to back your project at the Pentagon, but you better have a few extra board seats for the congressmen who will get your funding into the appropriations bills or all that VC money will burn like dead leaves on a chilly fall afternoon.

    • These are all “air taxi” concepts, designed for very short flights of 30 minutes or less. The idea is mostly for moving people and medium weight around traffic congestion. Sounds great, but is there a market for it?

      I sat in a prototype EHang air taxi (on terra firma) at a drone conference. Very tight space for the size of the thing. Only two passengers and some thin luggage. Better have the weight balance right too. Of course, no pilot either. No onboard controls. Very Chinese.

      Embraer is designing their aircraft for military ambulance use. Sure, United signed a contract for 200 back in 2020, but even if they are delivered it is extremely unlikely we’ll see them in general use in American airspace. These things will be used on the battlefield though, for shipping supplies out to the front lines and bringing back the wounded. Have a group of trained drone pilots at the forward operating base, backed up with surveillance and Predators from Nellis and a few token F35s, and the future of fighting in 2004 is secured. Maybe they can reanimate Saddam Hussein too. Good times…


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