The Hidden Cost of Things

By
eric
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68
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It’s a commonplace that new vehicles are expensive but that doesn’t cover what they cost. The distinction is important.

Nor does it account for the why.

Timing belts – vs. timing chains – are an example of something that has added a hidden cost to the expense of owning a new vehicle that arguably is the result of government regulations and the pressure vehicle manufacturers are under to comply with them.

An engine’s reciprocating assembly – the up and down action of the pistons and intake/exhaust valves, specifically – have to be timed to operate in sync else the engine won’t run. The timing chain – or belt – is the thing that times the engine’s reciprocating assembly so that everything works in sync. A timing chain is what it sounds like – and so is a belt. They both do basically the same thing, but are different in that a timing chain is just that and so is a belt. The distinction is important.

Here’s why:

A timing chain is made of metal links and – over time – it may stretch but it is not likely to break. Timing chains generally last the life of the engine. Timing belts are likely to break if not replaced according to the manufacturer’s  recommended mileage intervals, usually around 75,000 miles or so.

The distinction is important. Here’s why:

If you have a car that has an engine with a timing belt and you don’t have it replaced at or around the recommended mileage interval, it is a near-certainty that at some point not too far down the road, the belt will snap and – at the very least – you will immediately be stuck by the side of whatever road (or highway) you happened to be driving on when it snapped because the engine will immediately stop running. It might be worse than just that, if your car has an interference engine, which simply means that the reciprocating assembly will smash into itself when no longer synced by the timing belt. The result being a ruined engine.

Either way, there’s a cost involved – and it isn’t inexpensive.

A timing belt replacement costs – on the low end – about $1,500 and it can cost a great deal more, depending on the make and model of the vehicle. It costs a lot because there is a lot of work involved. The engine must be at least partially disassembled and then put back together again. It requires the services of a skilled mechanic – and their services are not inexpensive. You could, of course, elect to forgo this expense by continuing to drive the vehicle and – fingers crossed – and hope the timing belt holds up. It probably will – for awhile. But then – one day – it won’t. And then you will have to deal with the sudden, unplanned cost of having the vehicle towed to a shop and paying for an expensive repair you didn’t expect to have to pay for today. 

Many people do not have the $1,500-plus to pay for such an expense. Not in cash – or in the bank. So they have to finance the cost using a credit card that probably has a monthly interest rate in the 18 percent range – or higher than that (as astounding as it may seem, there are cards out there that charge as much as 40 percent interest monthly).

There’s a cost to that.

If they can’t afford to pay it, they have an inoperable vehicle – and that costs, too. Some people junk a car that had a timing belt failure and choose instead to finance a new car – because the monthly payment seems lower to them than the one big payment (or paying exorbitant interest on a credit card balance they can’t afford to pay off).

So why have timing belts largely replaced timing chains?

Well, because European/Japanese-style overhead cam engines have replaced American-style overhead valve engines. The distinction is – again – important.

Most overhead cam (OHC) engines have timing belts and most overhead valve (OHV) engines have timing chains. To put a finer point on it, most of the American cars made up until the mid-late 1980s had OHV V6 and V8 engines – with timing chains – while most import-make cars have OHC fours and V6s.

What happened over a roughly 30 year period – beginning in the mid-late 1970s – was that the typical car became an import-like car, even if its make was American. Take a look at an old episode of CHiPS or any other TV show that shows what was on the road in say 1977 and compare that with what you see on the road today. There used to be an obvious difference between American cars and imported cars. There is very little distinction today. Excepting big trucks and SUVs, American roads look a lot like European and Japanese roads because the vehicles all look pretty much the same.

And why do they look pretty much the same?

Because government regs homogenized them. Small, front-drive crossovers equipped with small, OHC engines comply with federal fuel-efficiency and “emissions” regulations (the latter in air fingers quote marks because carbon dioxide isn’t a pollutant) better than big cars with big (and OHV) V6 and V8 engines.

That’s why exceptional OHV engines – that do not have timing belts – such as GM’s 3.8 liter V6 as a for instance –  are no longer available in anything new. You can still get an OHV V8 with a timing chain in GM’s big trucks and SUVs. But only if you can afford the expense – and there’s another way all of this costs us.

Once upon a time, average Americans could afford to buy a car or a truck with a V8 engine that never needed to have a timing belt replaced because it didn’t have one.

But that time is long time gone.

. . .

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Related posts:
  1. Another Hidden Cost . . . or Three
  2. The Hidden Cost of “Lower Price”
  3. Latest Reader Question (March 5, 2018)
  4. Another Hidden Cost You’re Obliged to Pay
  5. Hidden Costs That Cost a Lot

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68 COMMENTS

  1. Great “Timing” on this article….Just replaced the timing belt and water pump on my 2008 Solara ragtop SLE…55, 000 miles…$1,4000…The belt and pump were a separate purchase…

  2. I drove a Studebaker Lark for a couple of years, one day I revved the engine so high I sheared the timing pin on the timing chain.

    Was too young and stupid to think enough to maybe it wasn’t the thing to do.

    My dad fixed it, discovered the problem.

    Didn’t even know what a wrench looked like back then.

    You have to add a few shavings of bittersweet chocolate to your chili recipe, you will be glad you did.

  3. Over the years, I’ve came to the conclusion that timing belts are better than chains. They are more efficient (less hp lost) and are easier to change.

    I’ve had a chains break before on V8’s – it destroyed valves in both. Had it been a belt with an interval it would have been addressed before failure.

  4. Eric, your car knowledge is top notch, but I am going to nitpick a bit.

    Overhead cam engines (OHC) are overhead valve engines (OHV) as you called it, OHC is just one implementation of OHV. Perhaps the distinction you’re thinking of is that American engines were pushrod engines without an overhead cam? Pushrod engines, are incredibly compact. A GM pushrod V8. like in corvettes, is smaller and lighter than some OHC 4-cylinders.

    Timing belts are cheaper and quieter. Timing chains get noisy and are more expensive. I’d bet you that the main reason for belts being ubiquitous is simply cost.

    I’ve owned several cars with Japanese engines, and all but 1 (Toyota Camry I4) had chains.

    The craziest setup is what some Germans did. They put the water pump on the timing belt! Water pumps can seize and that takes out your engine. All modern engines are interference engines because of high compression ratios.

    • I’ve had a number of overhead cam engines and also pushrod v6 and v8s.

      Frankly for everyday driving a pushrod/rocker arm engine is just fine. Like you say, they are compact. Also a good old V something with hydraulic lifters a joy of low maintenance as well. Lots of room down in that V valley for a nice set of roller hydraulic lifters.

    • I really liked my 1978 FIAT 131, the first new car I ever bought, which used the famous FIAT Twin Cam engine.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Twin_Cam_engine

      >The Fiat Twin Cam engine has been widely used in motorsport and has been the most successful engine in the history of the World Rally Championship. Fiat and Lancia won a total of ten World Rally Championships for Manufacturers using engines based on the Lampredi Twin Cam engine.

      It used a toothed belt to drive the OHCs. The mechanic who maintained mine told me that it was fairly common for FIAT owners to ignore the scheduled maintenance, which included replacing the timing belt at specified intervals. Then, when the belt failed, they blamed FIAT. Wrong. RTFM, fools.

      • According to this article:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothed_belt
        >Toothed belts have two failure modes, one gradual and one catastrophic. There is an increased risk of either failure over the lifetime of the belt, so it is common for highly-stressed belts to be given a service lifetime and to be replaced before this failure can occur.
        >One failure mode is gradual wear to the tooth shape, which may eventually lead to slippage over rounded teeth. The belt often continues to work, but the relative timing between shafts changes.
        >The catastrophic failure mode is caused by delamination between the belt and its fabric reinforcement. Although this may be caused by age and wear, it is often accelerated by mistreatment of the belt, often during initial installation.
        >It is extremely rare for a timing belt to break. More common is for the belt to delaminate, disconnecting the fabric strength member from the teeth that ride on the pulleys. The belt is then often thrown from the pulleys and may be further damaged, cut, or broken. Although worn teeth may be detectable by careful inspection, internal deterioration is not considered to be reliably detectable and so the observance of service lifetimes is important.

    • Most cars with timing belts also run the water pump from the timing belt. That’s why the water pump is always replaced with the timing belt. At worst, it’s as you describe; the pump seizes and takes out the timing belt AND engine. At best, the water pump starts leaking a few thousand miles after the belt is replaced and guess what; you have to tear everything apart again to get at it!

  5. I really lucked out with the 2003 Ford Escape, the V6 is a four overhead cam design with a CHAIN driving the works. Also external water pump is at the “back” (driver side) of the engine, driven by a cute little belt hooked to the rear end of a camshaft – what a great design! My 72 Honda 450 two cylinder motorcycle was a dual overhead cam again chain driven, as were the two Alfa Romeo dual overhead cam 4 cylinders.

    The daughter’s 09 Acura V6, Ugg – belt. I watched a video, then: “Nope that’s a shop job, sorry kid”. 6 years ago it was about $1200 all in, with a new water pump as the mess of a design means you better do the pump while it’s apart.

    Also if you DIY, it’s job “timing” means you damn well better get that timing correct, perfectly, or you’ll start all over & hopefully you haven’t ruined the engine.

    • Kids have 06 & 07 asian cars. Both have belts and were changed for a few hundred each.

      Wife has a 14 chevy and it’s a chain.

    • Those Escapes of that era were AWESOME. I had a 2005 V6, the first thing that went wrong on it was at 140K miles a couple of ignition coils went out and I was still able to drive it home on 4 cylinders. It eventually made 240K but then the catalytic converter went and wasn’t worth fixing with the body condition.

      I still miss that vehicle.

  6. ‘The Hidden Cost of Things’ — such as tariffs: first quarter GDP fell 0.3%, as you, I, and everybody we know front-ran Trumpy’s tax hike by backing up the truck and shoveling in Chinese gewgaws, gimcracks and fandangles till the frickin’ springs bottomed out. Now listen to the lying punk this morning:

    ‘This will take a while, has NOTHING TO DO WITH TARIFFS, only that he [Dementia Joe] left us with bad numbers, but when the boom begins, it will be like no other.’

    HA HA HA HA! Effing clown. The real pain hasn’t even started yet. You screwed the pooch so bad, bro.

    • Hi Jim,

      People will disagree with me, but it isn’t the tariffs as much as it is the purgatory of the market and economy. The Trump Administration is not providing consistency. It’s see sawing from one subject to the next and everything is being done on a whim. People and companies are not confident when the oligarchy’s approach is throwing pasta at the wall and seeing if it sticks.

      If one wants the economy to grow people need to know what the hell is going on. Right now I am trying to forecast tax projections for year end and next year and I can’t. Why? I have no idea if Congress is going to pass the “big, beautiful bill” or not. Businesses and individuals need routine. We can’t make adjustments, projections, changes, etc. without knowing what is coming. Right now the world is in a Purple Haze.

      • If I wanted to implement a consumption-based tax, I would phase it in four steps over four years, making it complete at the end of my term. In parallel, income and payroll tax cuts would phase in on the same schedule, for revenue neutrality.

        But Jim’s Jubilee would have to be passed by Clowngress — exactly what a raging narcissist, who thinks the whole world revolves around his disordered deals, won’t deign to do.

        Donnie said he was going to have Bad Vlad fetching sticks for him like a good doggie. But Vlad growled and turned up his nose. As did I … as did I.

        The R-party’s ‘big, beautiful bill’ stinks. I’m going to try to peel off my Freedom Caucus rep’s support and sink that sucker like the Titanic..

        • I can’t blame the raving narcissist for not having confidence in Clowngress to do anything. We are in a post constitutional world and they are irrelevant.

          Tariffs will eventually work.

          That said, Im a lot more worried about the mass arrests taking place across the country. This deportation thing is going to lead to something far more sinister.

    • At $58.50 a barrel, crude oil is very close to breaking down to a four-year low, as Donnie Fubar sodomizes the economy. Chart:

      https://tinyurl.com/2y4dfwuc

      Come and listen to a story ’bout a man named Jed
      Poor mountaineer barely kept his family fed
      Then one day, he was shootin’ at some food
      And up through the ground come a bubblin’ crude
      Oil, that is. Black gold. Texas tea.

      — Flatt & Scruggs, The Ballad of Jed Clampett

      • If that’s the spot price for sweet, light Saudi crude, why is gasoline at $4.40/gallon in Calipornia and RISING? There one helluva disconnect between crude prices and retail gasoline.

        • Hi Doug and Swamp,

          It is price gouging and market manipulation. Today I filled up the Toyota at $2.99 on 87 Octane. It should have been $1.99.

          Earlier this week, my parents stopped into my office and my father was telling me the story how the circuit board on the pool heater failed. He contacted the pool service/parts company and they tell him $4300 for a new board. My father begrudgingly okays it and contacts them the day to give them his credit card. The same guy tells my father that he priced it incorrectly and that circuit board was now $7600….because of tariffs. Mind you the circuit board is in stock, not coming on a boat from China or Taiwan. My father told him to go pound sand.

          My mother (god bless her) locates a company about 25 miles away from them that specializes in circuit board repair. My father walks the board in and talks to the guy (young, about 30 years old, but knows his stuff). The guy takes a look at the board and says the capacitor is fried. The guy replaces it. Total cost of job: $55.

          On this forum we have talked about running parallel from the system. I think with the current environment that really needs to be implemented. I have a feeling a lot of bargaining, bartering, and back room deals are going to be taking place shortly just as a means of survival. The wolves are out hunting and they will take advantage as they see fit.

          • “It is price gouging and market manipulation. Today I filled up the Toyota at $2.99 on 87 Octane. It should have been $1.99”

            Seriously? Ugh!

          • Circuit boards……. the bane of my existence.
            I get that there are places and good uses for them, but they’ve been used to ‘cheapen’ products to the extreme the past 10-20 yrs. And most are from asia anymore.
            We get calls all the time ‘do you have xx circuit board?’
            Nope.
            So we did an experiment and designed an entire 2-20HP motor control panel with relay logic and sturdy and available relays. We call it a non-proprietary, relay-logic panel. It costs 2-3 times what the circuit board style costs. 3 years in, we can’t build them fast enough. Quality in design, life-time reliability, etc… has it’s place if you can find the end-users that get it.

  7. There is an important distinction:

    That is whether the engine is an interference engine or not. A interference engine means the valves hit the pistons if the timing belt breaks.

    Not all engines are interference engines

    And the fundamental of why timing belts are so commonly used wasn’t addressed. Hint: it’s not cost.

    I sort of expected more than timing chains good – timing belts bad.

    • I’m know Eric mentions interference engines but again – no mention of the why behind interference vs non interference

      Turns out the issue is more complex and much of the reason for timing belts is driven by customer behavior too.

      • So that brings me back to – man up, know what you’re buying, why you’re buying it, and maintain it accordingly!

      • Hey BID

        Had a Ford ‘interference’ engine. belt failed. All pistons broke,,, most valves bent. I was 2nd owner but Ford picked up the tab even though it was on the far side of the warranty by about 100 miles.

        To thank them I bought a new Taurus in 1987. That is a whole nother story 🙁

  8. Owned a winter beater ’79 Cutlass with an Olds 260 V8 that ran like a sewing machine w/150k on it.
    One day, it cranked but wouldn’t start.
    Turned out timing chain broke.
    Once we replaced the chain, that sucker fired right back up and down the road it went.
    It did “interfere” with my schedule and I required a ride to school and the auto parts store later that day.

  9. This is something I never knew! I don’t know if my 2014 Honda CRV had a belt or a chain, but I do know that it made it to 208K miles and the only belt that was replaced was the serpentine belt. Either it had a chain or I got really lucky! And no such replacement was ever recommended.

  10. It is good to maintain a vehicle, when what you have breaks down, it is very frustrating.

    The cost can be too much to bear, you junk the thing. Later on, you might regret selling it for salvage. You have to have a different car, the one you have is worn out. Needs too much work, better off with something new that is going to work.

    Another day of consuming 100,000,000 barrels of oil. At 65 dollars, there are 6.5 billion dollars of oil floating in tankers, in gas tanks, oil depots, crude oil is the top dog for civilization to keep up with the Jones’.

    Everybody is jonesin’ to keep on moving and trucking. Free Wheelin’ Franklin agrees.

    What oil companies do to keep things moving, harvesting crude oil is a big job, your car needs gas and oil both, don’t knock it, won’t do any good.

    Not necessarily a hidden cost, but the investments required to move oil to the gas pump are in the hundreds of millions. After 125 years of crude oil in the economic markets, probably hundreds of billions in investments.

    You have your car, gasoline and diesel are absolutely required so the car can move.

    The planet is flying through space at 18.5 miles per second, the vortex in the wake must be massive.

    The sun’s light, energy and gravity keeps the planet a well-oiled machine.

    All right in front of your lying eyes, it all takes place.

    <From the cradle to the crypt
    Is a mighty short trip
    So you better get it while you can – Steve Goodman, You Better Get It While You Can

  11. Eric, you forgot about the best option, the gear driven cam, like the air cooled VW and the magnificent Fort 300 six. For that matter a gear driven cam is one of the better upgrades for a small block Chevy.

    Re the chains, unfortunately they aren’t much better than belts in a lot of cases. On OHV engines the OEM chain is usually a flat link assembly often with nylon teeth on the sprockets. On OHC engines, the manufacturers cheap out and use the cheapest single roller timing chains and plastic guides. But I was spoiled by Mercedes use of big, heavy, expensive double roller chains and needle bearing tensioners. I doubt if Mercedes still does that though as their quality has dropped a bunch since the 80s.

    If you’re going to use a disposable belt, why the hell dont they make it a easy thing to change?

    • It’s cause there is so much crap in the engine bay now. I used to do 70-80’s honda timing belts in about 2-3hrs. A water pump in average 20min. I had the record at the shop I worked at for a water pump in 5min….. haha….

      • Indeed I had similar performance on water pumps on American sixes and V8’s. Could do some in that 5 minute range- depending on how stuck the bolts and gasket were.
        Yes, there is a lot of crap in the engine bay, but there is also uncaring design. I just sold a pretty good 03 Honda Civic cheaply because it needed a water pump and timing belt- great car but I just couldn’t bring myself to fight the damn thing- why you have to pull the plug wire loom, the valve cover, a motor mount, and ABS assembly, etc to do what should be routine maintenance if you’re using a disposable timing belt and driving the water pump off it.

        • 70’s-80’s cars didn’t have these issues. Yes on FWD cars, ya still had to remove 1-2 motor mounts which was a pita. I could be looking at the bare belt on a old honda in about 30min. Then take care to do the actual change, and 30min back together. of course if it broke first, a whole different mess.

    • That 300 was Ford’s “Truck Six” which also came in a shorter-stroke 240 cube version as a standard engine for full-sized Ford’s (65 to 71) and the F-100 pickup and Econoline van. They were noisy compared to the like 170-200-250 inline six that debuted with the Falcon in 1960 (An 85 hp 144 cube version was also offered then). AFAIK, the 300 was never offered in passenger cars. A torquey, BULLETPROOF motor!

  12. Interference engines started coming out in the 70’s, mostly from Japanese brands.
    It put me through college all paid for (but lots of work)
    Timing belt change interval was 50K, and they meant it. If you didn’t, very soon it would break and the pistons would hit the valves and bend them.
    The local honda dealer would even do the work “new engine!!!”.
    I did the work for about $1500. Or I’d buy the car for $500, do the work and sell it for $2500. Keep in mind an Accord cost 4-5K back then. OMG!!! but they got better pretty fast, and all people cared about was the mpg!!!! so stupid. I figured it out how stupid they were at 16yrs old.

    Today’s compliance engines are a disaster…….. As others have said below…….. water pumps inside the engine, wet oil pump belts in the engine oil, multi displacement lifters, etc….. Be lucky if they go 100K. And I own them, but dump them at 50-75K, pay to play (job).

    The only way this get fixed is to de-regulate CO2 as a toxin, and get back to making great bigger, non-turbo, non-CO2-compliance engines like the old Buick 3.8 mentioned by Eric. The supercharged 3.8 was one of my favorites (in Park Ave’s). Ya just had to replace the supercharger bearings at 100K and off ya went for another 100K.

  14. I inherited a 2008 acura tl some years ago and immediately sold it because of this issue. Plus I didnt really need it. It was right about at belt replacement time. It did have the best radio though- you could use CDs, cassettes, and had an aux jack from the factory so everything outside of an 8 track goes. I probably would have kept it if it didnt have that $1000 repair bomb looming every decade

  15. To make matters even worse, some engines have so-called wet timing belts, such as the Stellantis/PSA Puretech 1.2 engine and the Ford Ecoboost 1.0 engine.

    What could possibly go wrong? Well, a lot, it would seem, since the belt tends to disintegrate, which is not only a risk in itself, but the rubber particles from the belt ends up in the oil lines, oil filter and oil pump, potentially catastrophically destroying the engine by clogging up oil delivery.

      • There needs to be a class action lawsuit against Toyota for the Tacoma upper front control arm bolt debacle.

        The actual instructions from Toyota tell technicians to BEND the steel out of the way to get the bolt out, which clearly compromises the integrity of the paint and damages the vehicle to replace a commonly replaced maintenance part.

  16. And if we moved to a high voltage electrical system in cars, we could move to solenoid actuated valves and do away with timing chains AND belts FOREVER.

    Just sayin.

      • Have you seen any of the dual overhead cam engines on the market today?
        A solenoid valve engine would be as simple as boiled noodles compared to the nonsense we have parading around as “engines” today.

        • Please – go read some automotive development history.

          Your proposal is nothing new

          Many prototypes built and tested

          Many design isssues and they are not easily overcome

          • I’m familiar with their development (or lack thereof), and by matter of fact they’re in use today in large scale marine engines. The last place I saw any serious development was in the 1980’s with the Cadillac and their 4-6-8 engine that used solenoid valves to deactivate cylinders for fuel economy.

            The problem is, I haven’t seen any development in this area in the last 30 years, and only recently has there been any talk at all of moving vehicles to a 48v electrical system.

            If you have any info on any recent attempts to design a solenoid valve head engine, preferably around a 48v electrical system, I sure would like to see the data. I haven’t been able to find anything, and it’s not for lack of looking.

              • Big difference between an insanely large diesel marine engine that operates at 500 rpm max and an automotive engine that operates at 5000 rpm.

                Solenoid valves have all sorts of problems operating at high speeds ranging from high valve wear to lack of certainty of valve position due to mass, inertia, and solenoid field saturation.

                Not to mention that an automobile engine has severe restrictions on package space and weight that a marine diesel engine does not.

              • Thanks for that, it was a good read. I did note a few excerpts that kind of reinforced what I’ve been saying all along:

                “First, the current pulse needed to activate the solenoid with the force and speed required in this application is large and difficult to get from the 12 V supply of the vehicle without heavy supply cables. For this reason, the solenoid approach must wait until vehicles switch from 12 V supplies to the more-efficient 42 V standard that automakers are already phasing in over the next few years.” That mirrors what I’ve been saying almost exactly.

                And also…
                “Finally, auto manufacturers have chosen (or been pushed) to put most of their power-train research and development effort and budget into EVs and hybrid EVs of various types over the last decade or two. A recent article in The Wall Street Journal (see references) made this with some revealing and indisputable numbers.”

                Which seems to me the REAL reason no serious advances have been made.

                I haven’t yet had a chance to go through their list of “references”, but at the end of the day, that quite informative article in many ways was a validation of everything I’ve been saying. That the move to a higher voltage system is required, and that development is possible, but clearly they’ve been putting their efforts elsewhere (EV’s).

  17. I’ve had both belts and chains break, but on non-interference, rear-drive engines and it wasn’t too difficult to replace them. (Well, the chain didn’t actually break — it was a 1984 302 with nylon teeth on the gears (!?) and those went).

    On modern front-drive cars, it is an understatement to say that replacing timing belts is a bitch, typically requiring specialized tools to get into the confined spaces and to keep the cams aligned. Usually your water pump is driven by the belt, so do you replace that, too, while you’re in there, even if it’s good? More money and more work.

    The thing about doing belts is that it is a big expense for preventative maintenance. Few belts break within the service interval of 75-100,000 miles, so you can usually put it off. But 130-150,000? Better not wait much longer. Of course now the car is older and has other stuff to deal with.

    Buy engines with chains when possible.

    • Timing chains on push rod engines clearly best, they last the life of the engine and usually can be reused even when rebuilding. On overhead cam it’s not quite as simple of decision. This becomes especially hard with multiple cams in V configurations. There’s valid reasons to use a belt when the chains are long, routing is complex, in these situations.

      Chains can and do break in that case. I had a chain break on my engine, a 22R by Toyota. One of the weaknesses in OHC chains is how to keep tension on these long chains, which is what happened to my engine. Which I can tell you is definitely an intereference engine.

      They’re much better now. For those early OHC engines this aspect was something they were dialing in still. In the case of 1st gen Toyota engines the implication was that you’d replace the timing chain/gears/guides/tensioner on each head gasket change. The head gasket was what gave up fast on them, they hadn’t quite gotten the formula right to deal with the difference in expansion of the block and head. This is really true of the later 22R, where Toyota went to a single row chain and plastic guides. These chain systems really must be replaced on each head gasket change. The older 20R/early 22R with double row chains and metal guides can last, although the tensioner is still a weak spot.

      Sure, it’s a debate whether we need overhead cams at all but if we decide the advantages of them are real then it’s fair to question the trade off on a belt or chain. Belts are easier to maintain and allow the front of the engine to be more compact. Chains last longer but not forever, they’re more noisy. There’s no real effiency gained, both have about the same losses. There’s some improvement in stability with belts, mainly since the tensioners are more predictable.

  18. If memory serves me correct Ford has an engine with a belt running in oil or for that matter there’s the engineers that put the water pump inside of the engine.

    Engineering isn’t what it used to be.

    • My wife’s 2016 Explorer has the water pump inside the engine. We’ve replaced it once — $120 part, $3000 labor. 60,000 miles.

      The pump will eventually have to be replaced on all Explorers and Edge models of that generation with the same V6 engine as the seals start to go. I believe the problem is also endemic to the popular cop models like the heroes drive in Austin.

      Routine maintenance on the engine should include inspection of the weep hole where coolant leaks after the first seal goes, but that often isn’t checked since it requires a special mirror tool. We monitor the coolant level in the reservoir.

      When the second seal goes, coolant drains into the bottom of the crankcase and mixes with the oil. The best case scenario is that the oil breaks down and the engine seizes. The worst case is that steam from the water in the coolant makes the engine splody. Hopefully neither happens on the freeway at speed.

    • Sometimes it’s not an engineering decision, it’s marketing and accounting. The engineers and manufacturing people have their hands tied. I’ve often had to figure out a way to make arbitrary decisions work. Yes, sometimes the decision is to get something to last just long enough. If it was me I’d design things to last but more importantly be repairable. But not everyone thinks that way. Some people don’t think about how to fix it but build things that will last as long as possble.

      One example of that is the M.E.s who build spacecraft. They’re not coming back and can’t be repaired, so they cost what they cost to meet the lifespan. Other people look at things as consumable so prioritize repairability. It all has Dollar signs attached. Then when you factor in C-suite things like replacement and warranty they tell us to make it cheaper all the time. I don’t like it but the ugly truth is if we build something that last forever we will eventually run out of people to sell them to and it’s down to replacement parts, which means I find something else to design for the market.

      Which is fine, but I also don’t like the endless consumerism. I think I would have liked some parts of the old life, where your “job” wasn’t just this thing but your life, working fields, tending livestock, repairing the homestead. But it’s not that way now, we have specialization and leisure. Which isn’t so bad, I like having time to hike and backpack to see the world. Just a couple of generations ago people would be lucky to have ever left their county, nevermind seeing the country and the world apart from books.

      • Right On Big I,

        That’s why I’m amazed when I read “Mark Twain” books. That guy did Everything!
        Before any form of aircraft …..My style of travel…. purchase 1 way tickets to assorted continents and just …experience other places, at ground level….
        The “USA, USA”….isn’t all it’s cracked up to be…..

        “Numba” 1 problem?……

        GROSS OVERCONSUMPTION….aka, the “keeping up with the Jones effect”…
        I prefer the laid back atmosphere of say ….the Dominican Republic….

        Think Hispanic Norman Rockwell..No shit!

        Oh yes , I am NOT referring to the consumerist “polluted joints” like Punta Cana , Santo Domingo, et al.

        Get out into the countryside…..Zooming up and over some of the coolest scenery imaginable….particularly the Northern Septentrional mountain range in the country’s north…

        Absolute Trailer Park priced Tahiti, proximate to U.S. AND NO F…ING STRESS!!

        Sheesh Shut off your TVs….

        Sitrep from a Castaway Marooned in Connecticut…..:(

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