Toyota – and Toyota’s luxury brand, Lexus – used to have just about the best reputation for reliability of any brand. That reputation was earned, too. If you wanted a car – or truck – with an engine that was likely to go 200,000-plus miles before it began to falter, you wanted a Toyota or a Lexus. Especially models such as the Corolla and Camry and the 4Runner and Lexus-branded models such as the RX350 crossover and the LS400 luxury sedan and the GX460 SUV.
Well, as Inspector Clouseau from the Pink Panther movies said after he ruined a priceless Steinway piano, not anymore.
Toyota (and Lexus) are not viewed as being as Blue Chip as they used to be, according to Consumer Reports – which for decades touted the Blue Chipness of Toyota/Lexus vehicles. Lexus just fell three spots in the publication’s reliability rankings, which are based i part on owner satisfaction reports. The Lexus GX (which is related to the Toyota 4Runner and Tacoma) was especially hard hit. So also the Tundra pick-up and its Lexus cousin, the LX SUV.
A hint as to why can be divined by the badging – and what it says about these vehicles, by not saying it anymore.
The current Lexus GX used to be the GX460 – the “460” denoting the 4.6 liter V8 it used to come with. Beginning with the 2024 model, it came with a new 3.4 liter turbocharged V6 instead. This same engine also replaced the anvil-reliable V8s that used to come standard in the Tundra pickup and the Lexus LX, back when it was still badged LX 470 and LX570 rather than just “LX.”
The absence is telling.
Toyota/Lexus had to recall and replace a whole batch of these new compliance engines – which replaced the anvil reliable V8 engines that were the core reason for Toyota/Lexus’ rep for reliability – because they weren’t reliable, due to either a built-in defect or a manufacturing issue that rendered them prone to catastrophic failure. This is the sort of problem that once beset brands such as Yugo – and Ford and GM.
Not Toyota. Not Lexus.
Not anymore.
CR also noted owner complaints pertaining to squeaky brakes and the massaging seats not working because the air hose that makes them work disconnecting. This is embarrassing – for brands once respected for meticulous assembly and quality control practices. The very first Lexus models – especially the original LS400 sedan – were so well-made they embarrassed brands such as Mercedes and BMW, which had been the Blue Chip brands.
Not anymore.
But that was before 2024 – which was the year of Great Change for Toyota and Lexus. That was the year Toyota stopped selling its anvil reliable V8s and its equally anvil-reliable non-turbocharged, non-hybrid-augmented 3.5 liter (and 4.0 liter) V6 engines, which used to be available in models such as the Toyota Camry and the 4Runner/Tacoma. These models now come with hybrid-augmented, turbocharged fours instead. Once again, not because there was customer clamor for them but because there was compliance pressure for them.
The consequences of this compliance pressure is only lately being felt because it takes a few years for it to reveal itself in the showroom. When Joe Biden was selected to replace Trump back in 2020 – more finely, when Pete Buttigieg and Michael Regan were selected by Biden to run the DOT and EPA – onerous new compliance pressure was imposed on the car industry. The car companies were told they’d have to comply with a 50 MPG “fleet average” fuel economy standard and that meant they’d have to ditch their non-turbocharged/non-hybridized V8 and V6 engines in favor of much smaller engines that could comply with the standards decreed by the Biden Thing’s regulatory czars.
The smaller engines burn less gas – and they “emit” less of the gas that has become the same kind of bogeyman that the “virus” was, during the Biden Years. People have been taught to fear a grossly exaggerated threat and that fear is then leveraged to justify costs and impositions that would otherwise not be tolerated. The problem, for the car companies, is that it’s not as easy as it was to just stop wearing the stupid “mask” and go back to normal when it comes to compliance with regs that require wholesale changes to expensive things such as drivetrains. Huge sums must be malinvested in hurried-up R&D and tooling/assembly processes to get the compliance engines into production quickly and in congruence with the pending compliance pressures.
Toyota/Lexus – and everyone else in the car business – assumed the compliance pressures they anticipated in 2020 would not only be in force by 2024 but that the pressure would increase as time passed. You may recall that by 2030 or so, it was taken as a given that no one would be selling cars with engines – exept small ones – because by then only “electrified” or partially “electrified” vehicles (i.e. hybrids) could achieve compliance.
This all happened very fast – in car business terms. Imagine being a car company back in 2020 and having to figure out how to get a whole array of new-design compliance engines (and drivetrains) into production by 2024. Even with the best of intentions – in the sense that these companies wanted these new engines to be as well-made and reliable as the proven durable designs they were replacing – the chances of something not going as planned were high.
And that’s just what’s happened.
A likely compounding problem that has yet to become evident that probably will over the course of the next decade is diminished long-term reliability. Little engines that are under constant pressure – literally, due to being heavily turbo boosted to make the power produced by the larger engines they replaced – are not likely to go the same distance as those bigger engines did (and do) because they were under much less pressure. Instead of a V6 without a turbo (or two) that goes 300,000 miles before it wears out, a turbocharged four that craps out by 150,000 miles – if it makes it that far.
CR will no doubt have some interesting things to report in the years ahead.
. . .
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bearing-close-up.jpeg (Journal sans-bearing)
Where’s the Zinc? (Beef)
API Conspiracy? For your catalytic converter’s “protection”? Or longevity at the expense of bearings?
I would say Toyota is not what it was in the 1990s-2000s but if anyone is going to say any new European car is better like a Porsche there completely full of shit everyone knows the in the junk yard by 200k and cost a small fortune to fix the smallest items and the plastic is so cheap it falls apart in 10 years
Re: “Compliance”
Until, and unless, folks and companies cease obeying “illegal orders”
the descent of the U.S. will continue.
“Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it.”
― Henry David Thoreau
“There is one thing in the world more wicked than the desire to command,
and that is the will to obey.” − W. K. Clifford
There’s a couple aspects to this.
#1, people need to stop complying.
#2, everyone else needs to get on the jury and acquit them, after not complying.
People have GOT to look out for each other, because if they don’t the government will, and that only leads to nowhere good. We all know the government is not anyone’s friend…but unfortunately Karen down the street thinks it is her friend, and is all too willing to bring it into any situation. We need to stop letting that be effective, if we can’t stop it from happening.
Publius: “#2, everyone else needs to get on the jury and acquit them, after not complying.”
Jury rights will never be taught in government schools.
FIJA: Fully Informed Jury Association
“FIJA empowers jurors to uphold individual rights and liberty by instilling in them a rich understanding of their protective role, including jurors’ right to refuse to enforce unjust law.” http://www.fija.org
>Little engines that are under constant pressure – literally, due to being heavily turbo boosted to make the power produced by the larger engines they replaced – are not likely to go the same distance as those bigger engines did (and do) because they were under much less pressure. Instead of a V6 without a turbo (or two) that goes 300,000 miles before it wears out, a turbocharged four that craps out by 150,000 miles
One more time,
The critical concept is *STRESS* *ANALYSIS*.
Yes, if you hang a turbocharger (or a supercharger) off an engine which was designed to run at a compression ratio of 8 or 9, boosting it to, I don’t know, 16 or so, you *will* have problems with durability of the engine.
OTOH, of the engine was originally *DESIGNED* to handle the increased stress induced by higher compression, it should give long years of service.
Historically, diesel engines have been so designed, but the same principles apply to gasoline engines. My brother owns a 1995 Ford F800 (the “Green Monster,” a former US Forest Service truck), which has the original straight six turbocharged Cummins diesel. Still rock solid after 30 years of service.
Those on the West Coast may know this name, as well:
https://bankspower.com/pages/about-banks-power-history
E.g.,
1977
Turbocharging the Vega: Power Meets Economy
Banks’ turbo Vega pushed 309 hp with strong MPG, proving small engines could deliver real power and efficiency.
Main thing is, you have to know WTF you are doing, and *not* cut corners to save a few bucks (false economy). Mr. Banks, a degreed engineer (Cal Poly), knows WTF he is doing.
FWIW, I also have a science and engineering background, so I do have some knowledge in the relevant topics, namely a) thermodynamics and b) stress analysis, as well as a bit of “hot rodding” experience, though I have never turbocharged an engine.
As the saying goes, your mileage, and your engine durability, may vary.
I’ve seen many turbocharged engines go high mileage. I have a Saab pushing 200k. Compliance has pushed engineering to it’s limit. Variable turbos, oil pumps, cams, high pressure DI – the list goes on of modern tech that isn’t reliable.
The car care channel on YouTube listed the good and bad Toyota engines. While the newer 2.4 liter engine had lots of issues my older 2.4 liter was described as one of the great ones. It’s got around 200K on it now and will probably outlast the body.
Poorly engineered cars might be acceptable if they cost only $10K and you knew they would be scrap by 75K miles but when they cost $50K and are scrap at 100K miles it’s totally unacceptable.
For what you got for $3990 was a YUGO that bad?
As I have mentioned before, part of the ‘compliance’ is aluminum bearings, tight clearances, and ultra-thin oil. Toyota uses 0w8 oil in some new models now. Everything has to be perfect AND the customer needs to take good care with proper maintenance. The ‘safety factor ‘ within the engine lubrication system is much smaller than it used to be. Buyer beware.
“Never go full retard”…even the retards know that!!
I research for what engineers specified when building the engines & transmissions in all my vehicles, not what’s manufacturer recommended.
My van was specified to use 5W20 by the maker, but engineered to use 10W30. It began burning oil at a rate of 1 quart in 800 miles, by 45,000 miles. Upon discovering 10W30 was engineered as the correct lubricant, & switching, suddenly it went to 1 quart every 3500 miles!!!
Turns out, the sales division prioritized MPG rating, to try and sell more vehicles, and with thinner oil, engines would get slightly better milage, but once out of warranty, they’d drink oil like drunken sailors!
(((Government))) lies, Companies lie…all to separate from your hard earned shekels…learn to verify before trusting anything anyone says!!
Exactly. Fuel economy is now ‘modeled’ on a computer simulation with ‘friction models’. Low tension piston rings don’t seal well if the cylinders are not machined perfectly.
In addition, 10k mile oil changes are a marketing gimmick, ‘ease of ownership’, but oil does get dirty and breaks down.
How does one find out what oil the engineers specified though?
If you look through your owners manual, you can usually find what is specd for your motor outside the US. Usually you can find what the engine is specd in Mexico. The engine is the same there, just no gov’mnt interference. In my case the Mazda specified oil in Mexico is 5w-30. Same engine in the US is 0w-20. At 80K miles I switched to 5w-30. Wish I had done it earlier.
Cool, thanks!
I run 0w20 in my stuff in our arctic winters, the loss of protective viscosity is worth it in arctic cold to get the stuff flowing. In the 70s and 80s a lot of K cars lost their cams early due to oil not flowing to the top end of the engine for 5 minutes or so on a cold start.
But in a more temperate climate 5w and 10w oils are the way to go. As far as mpg gains go, is a fraction of a percent worth it to destroy an expensive engine?
It’s nearly impossible to find NON-synthetic blend oil these days. I’m not sure of the cut-off date but, older engines don’t like full synthetic and blends are borderline.
My 500k+ ’06 Corolla weeps just a little with synth-blend but, it’s all I can find these days. Remember when straight 40wt would fix most small leaks?
Agree Mark. I ask for non-syn, if they don’t have it then blend. I’ll even go one weight class up, like 0w20 to 5w20 if I have too.
I’ve had some bad experiences with full syn.
If it’s a flat tappet engine, you’ll want to add zinc supplement, otherwise full synthetic is great. It does find every incipient leak point though.
Toyota is going to export US-made models to Japan. But there’s a catch —
‘Toyota said it will start selling three U.S.-built models in Japan in 2026 — the Camry, Highlander, and Tundra — produced in Kentucky, Indiana, and Texas.
‘Bloomberg Intelligence’s Tatsuo Yoshida said: “All three models under discussion are large by Japanese standards, and left-hand drive remains a major psychological and practical barrier for most consumers.” He added, “Producing right-hand-drive versions in the U.S. for the Japanese market could unlock some demand, but even then vehicle-size constraints would cap volumes.”
‘Large vehicles traditionally struggle in Japan due to narrow roads and parking. Meanwhile, Toyota and the Japanese government are exploring regulatory changes to make imports easier, and NHK reported that those efforts are now moving forward.’
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/toyota-will-export-american-made-vehicles-japan-next-year-please-trump-administration
Are they kidding? Toyota makes right-hand drive models for its domestic market. How hard would it be to incorporate this feature in models built for export from the US?
OEM manufacturers from Japan and the UK don’t try to sell right-hand drive cars in the US. And I wouldn’t buy one, since I dislike left-hand shifting and being unable to see around the vehicle ahead for passing. Baka! [‘stupid’ in Japanese]
There is a fundamental problem with the new Toyota engines but I’m not sure you can totally blame compliance.
I had a 1989 truck, first and only brand new truck I’ve ever owned, recalled because it blew a head gasket, that was the infamous 3.0L 3VZ engine. Toyota covered the head rebuild and replaced the head gaskets under warranty. I run it until 2008, so once the bugs were worked out it was OK.
The ironic thing is that truck got replaced by a 2006 Tacoma with a 1GR 4.0L V6 that got new fuel rails under warranty when they started leaking. due to being incorrectly welded. That truck also got a new frame due to accelerated corrosion. That was a $11,000 warranty job.
I still have the truck but am stating to consider what to replace it with. It won’t be a brand new Tacoma but in my research on low mileage used one with the 3.5L V6 I came across this.
https://www.autoblog.com/news/engine-teardown-reveals-surprising-problems-inside-toyotas-3-5-liter-v6
So I’m not sure Toyotas are really as reliable as Consumer Reports wants you to believe. One bitten, twice shy, third time a curse? Maybe time to jump ship back to Ford, although I know they’re no better.
BTW, what is common seems to be to avoid the first couple of years of any new Toyota engine.
My 1989 was the first year of the 3.0L V6,.
The 2006 was the second year of the 4.0L V6.
The motor in the article is 2017, the second year of the 3.5L V6 in the Tacoma.
This is the key, auto makers do the best they can, but the first couple years are teething years, with problems showing up in places that simulations and road testing never showed. Which is why makers used to make engine models and transmission models for decades, (see small block Chevy or Ford, first few years have known bugs, later ones are product improved.)
It is surprising how many differences there are between 55/56/ and 57 Chevy 265 v8s. And while a 1999 350 vortec looks almost the same, and stuff will interchange, there are hundreds of detail differences.
“So I’m not sure Toyotas are really as reliable as Consumer Reports wants you to believe.”
Yes. Seems to me that CR and the motoring press had a fetish for Japanese stuff, which is typically VERY good but not PERFECT (i.e., Subaru boxer head gaskets).
You will commonly hear people say “I’ll never buy (Brand X), they’re all shit” or conversely, “all (Brand Ys) are great.”
But the reality is that every manufacturer produces some really great ones, and some real turds. Sometimes they can produce a shitty sub-assembly in an otherwise great car.
I had (still have, it’s off the road now) a first-year 2012 Focus that was the best car ever. Got 215k out of it and it still runs, but is getting rotted. I could put it back on the road in a pinch if I needed to.
The car has a manual transmission (and still has the original clutch). But if you got an automatic, which 95% of buyers did, the DCT automatics were junk and the majority of them needed major transmission work. Ford took a bath on warranty claims and lawsuits for the DCTs.
So the reality of reliability is… it depends.
Even with the auto DCT, it depends. I have a 2015 Focus with the DCT, and so far, so good. I was told that they’d gotten better trannies from 2015 on.
They did have an upgrade to the shift servos and input shaft seals if I recall correctly.
Okay, cool. My 2015 Focus has been good so far… 🙂
‘Little engines are under constant pressure.’ — eric
Long ago when I lived in Bordeaux, France, the unpredictable Atlantic weather meant that you had know the good and bad vintage years:
‘The 1970s and 1980s were strong decades for Bordeaux, with 1970, 1982, 1986, 1988, and 1989 standing out as truly exceptional vintages, producing wines with classic structure, ripe fruit, and longevity, though other years like 1978, 1983, and 1985 also offered excellent quality.’ — AI Overview
But then wine producers in places such as California, Australia, South Africa, Chile and Argentina burst onto the scene. Their weather was the same every year. So there were no good and bad years.
Toyota was like that: rock solid quality, year after year. But now, as Eric’s essay demonstrates, you have to do your research. Some engines, and some model years, are duds.
This is how civilization decays — gradually, then suddenly. Thanks, Uncle Samberg! /sarc
>ut then wine producers in places such as California, Australia, South Africa, Chile and Argentina burst onto the scene. Their weather was the same every year. So there were no good and bad years.
Which means that California wines do not need a vintage year, only an octane number. 🙂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dye