We’re told that “driver assistance technologies” make cars safer by making crashes less likely to happen – as for example by having the car apply the brakes when the driver doesn’t. This of course assumes the brakes need to be applied – and also that it is safe for the car to apply them.
What if it isn’t?
A news report details one such incident involving the driver of an SUV that decided it was necessary to slam on the brakes – in order to avoid a plastic bag that wafted across the highway.
This is something that has happened to most of us at one time or another. The part about the bag, I mean. Or a tumbleweed. We don’t slam on the brakes because we can see it is a plastic bag or a tumbleweed or some other such thing that won’t cause us or our vehicle any harm if we just drive over it. But automatic emergency braking (AEB) sometimes cannot tell the difference between a bag wafting across the lanes of a highway and a child running into the path of traffic – because there is no brain interpreting what is seen by the cameras or sensed by the sensors (such as radar) that are “watching” the road ahead.
Which they aren’t, really.
At least, not in the sense that human beings see things – and then use their brains to interpret what they see. A human eye (and brain) can discern the difference between a plastic bag and something it’s important to brake for. AEB sometimes can’t. And – as the man driving the SUV discovered – it can be very dangerous when the car decides to slam on the brakes when there’s no good reason to brake. The man described almost being rear-ended by the vehicle behind him.
This was not an isolated incident.
“ Federal investigations have already been opened into multiple automotive manufacturers over AEB malfunctions, with thousands of complaints filed by drivers who experienced unexpected braking events,” says the MSNBC piece.
I am one of those drivers.
A couple of years ago, I was driving a brand-new press car – meaning, a new car loaned out to car journalists for the purposes of a test drive, so as to write a behind-the-wheel review – on a road with nothing in front of me when for no good reason – such as a car ahead that had slowed that I did not see or a kid in the road – the car decided there was a sudden need to brake. Hard. Like the driver in the MSNBC news story, I was very glad that I didn’t get rear-ended. But the fact is that – like the man in the story – I might have been. More finely, I might have been killed.
Him, too.
It does not seem very “safe” to me.
More finely, it does not seem very “safe” to me to not have full control over a car’s critical systems, such as the braking system. Not just because it is manifestly unsafe for a car to slam on the brakes for no good reason but also because it undermines agency; i.e., that it is the driver who is responsible for the driving. Legally, I mean.
Who would have been at fault if the suddenly braking car described in the news story had been rear-ended? Can the person behind the wheel who did not touch the brakes be blamed and held responsible for what the car did? For the damage – including possibly physical harm to people?
It is hard to see how, at least by any moral reckoning.
Speaking of which: This isn’t even a matter of people choosing to drive AEB-equipped vehicles. The “technology” has become de facto standard in most if not all current model year vehicles, irrespective of make or model – in anticipation of a federal mandate that all new vehicles be equipped with this “technology” by 2029, which is now less than three model years away.
The car industry, in other words, isn’t just going along with this – it is getting ahead of this.
There’s an even more ominous aspect to all of this. It is that once AEB becomes a government-mandated “safety” system, the federal safety apparat is likely to warble that older vehicles that do not have AEB constitute a road hazard. The argument will be that if AEB-equipped vehicle “A” brakes – for good reason or not – and the vehicle following does not have AEB, it is likely to run into the AEB-equipped vehicle because . . . ta-dum . . . it does not have AEB.
If it did, they will say, such rear-ender accidents would never happen.
Therefore, older vehicles that do not have the “technology” must either be retrofitted (a technical/economically tenable impossibility for any pre-drive-by-wire vehicle, which means pretty much everything made before around 2010 or so) or retired.
That is to say, made illegal to operate on the government’s roads.
In the name of saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety.
. . .
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It looks like it is time for Eric to buy up what he wants before a new law, which is sure to get signed, goes into effect.
He aint moving, so we will see how he puts up or shuts up.
To Eric’s potential benefit are cases before the SC that are yet to be resolved.
It is possible the SC rules against VA’s unConstitutional new about to be law in a case that does not involve VA.
VA is the new CA.
Enjoy the view.
Morning, J –
The problem is that America is – effectively – the new CA. You may live in a state that isn’t as far along as VA is right now. But it’s coming for you, too. It will probably come down to a fight. So be it.
Better look into getting a horse.
Umm Eric, VA is not passing Constitional Carry anytime soon. My home state did and I still left it.
For Shadow,
Alaska is widely recognized as the
first state in the modern era to pass constitutional (permitless) carry legislation, signing it into law in 2003 (effective September 9, 2003). While Vermont has had permitless carry since 1793 via its constitution, Alaska is considered the first to formally pass legislation enabling it in the 21st century.
This is not the best place to be. I could be froze out or starved out. I have enough gear not to be froze out. Then there are volcanoes and earthquakes. It is not Utopia but it is a hill I would choose to die on rather than the hill I I left.
And for those that want to die on the sword for Eric…. I really do not care about you. I usually agree with Eric, thus the non-posts. I only say something when I disagree. I am not here to suck Eric’s you know what.
Eric has written a couple articles from my messaging about a couple of pertinent topics. What did Eric do? He killed it and said it better than I could have.
If Shadow thinks Im an ass or snarky, well maybe, but I care about Eric, not Shadow.
So what if you do not care? Did I ask you to? With such “friends”, I would not need any enemies. I am not dying on the sword of Eric, you, or anyone else. You could not die on the hill you were on, and could not be bothered with fighting where you were. What makes you think you will survive up here with your correctly stated faults of being up north, much less fight for what you could not where you previously resided?
Why are you an ass to me?
Seriously, I wish you the best.
Tho, your handle is one of a contrarian. When the issue moves, you move. If everyone started loving freedom again, you would be screaming about Liberty Bell lickers and such.
Hi J,
I do not get attacking people who are not the problem. We may not agree about everything, but – fundamentally – neither I nor Shadow nor the regulars here are the ones voting to increase your taxes or diminish your (or anyone else’s) freedoms. Quite the contrary. Remember what Franklin said about hanging together vs. hanging separately.
The regulars here?
I am a regular, I just do not post mich. I have been an EP Autos fan for years. I found you through LRC.
Your post and your writing shows you pay attention to your The View audience more than you are a principled writer.
You know how I know? I am responding to a strawman argument. I did not vote for taxes either. You are a writer. You are to be held to a higher level of integrity.
Then why do you allow Shadow to attack me when I have not attacked Shadow except in self defense?
Shadow has been an ass to me from the get go. I do not wish Shadow bad but it is apparent Shsdow wants me to shut the hell up.
To me, you are now the new Joy Behar Eric. You are the latest AOC. I am totally done with you. Oh noes, crude went up by 5 bucks a gallon. Give up your guns. Gas is more important than guns.
Yeah, you have no idea how bad it really is gonna get. You think you might be grandfathered? Dumbass! Look at RI. They are taking out the grandfather clause like VA will as well. You are in a shitty state and do not realize it.
Are you gonna fight and stand up? No, I dont think so.
Big man, big talk.
Now, I would have been nicer to you Eric but you have been a butthead to me. I am just trying to be my own person but when i get static from someone I used to respect, it changes my opinion.
As much as I wanna be mad at ya right now, I am actually praying. We should not be divided right now.
I love yall if even if yall dont love me.
Hi J,
You keep attacking me with petty personal insults. I am the new Joy Behar, the latest AOC. I have tried to be civil toward you, even in the face of such. Despite your constant supercilious belittling of me because I don’t put up the For Sale sign and move to Alaska or some other place.
I am not your enemy and yet you treat me as if I were.
No, you are not my enemy, if you were, you would not hear shit from me. I am treating you like a brother on the front line. If you cannot handle what I say, get out of the kitchen because you cannot handle the heat.
I am a long time friend wondering how you have strayed. I moved a long way away, with great cost and consequences. But “muh tyranny, this is fine” memes basically embedded between the lines of your articles.
Pack up or shut up. Well, apparently, Virginians are not going to take it on the chin and I am so proud of Virginians right now. But the protest needs to grow. And Eric needs to write about it.
Eric has the power of the pen and press. Will he use it to stand up for the Constitution or will he gripe like a Karen about gas prices? I suspect the latter.
Aaah, and the million dollar question of the day is: Which god are you praying to? There are plenty of lords and gods to petition. Which one are you praying to?
Get a grip, J. I have nothing against you and I have enjoyed reading your posts over the years, but we ALL have been attacked by someone else on this forum. Sometimes, others don’t like us. That’s fine. It is not Eric, or anyone else’s job, to defend us.
We each have three options: engage, ignore, or leave. There is a fourth option…tracking them down and knocking out their knee caps, but that usually comes with an arrest and then a felony, so I don’t advocate for that as a solution.
Just a bit of advice. Feel free to ignore, but showing others courtesy goes a long way. We can’t attack someone and then ask, “Why don’t they like me?”
You have made your point about moving constantly. Those of us that live in VA wish to stay. Just because someone doesn’t share your viewpoint doesn’t make them a coward, a liberal, or a supporter of the “View”. I think it maybe time to engage in other debates and discussions on this forum.
Hi RG, i hope your weekend is going well.
I have gotten a grip and thus my posting as of late.
Have I advocated for RG to leave VA? It is possible I could have, but I do not remember doing such. You are gainfully employed and probably have extended family there. I do not know for sure, but a guess on my part. I do not see any reason for RG to leave, only reasons to stay.
My gripe is that when Bill Maher has more of a grip on reality and that Eric appears to be either moving to the left, being a media myrmidon, or just simply catering to his base of posters here that had me posting.
Attacks here are fine, just not towards dear leader right?
Im pretty sure this is how Metal Queen feels about me: Probably every other liberal here pretending to be libertarian as well.
https://youtube.com/shorts/o0c2Hrxi6Gk?si=7oOiUMmAepoesVNX
Says the fool that ran from the lower 48 up here to Alaska? Were you just another stupid liberal that figured out Communism did not work, and ran like hell from the consequences? Just another RINO who is all talk and no action? You know Alaska is also called “The last Best Place To Run” and run you did! You know, Anchorage is not called “Los Anchorage” or “North Seattle” for nothing. Far too many from the lower 48 did that, and landed there, turning it into the crap hole they left. The communist, leftist crap IS coming to Alaska, whether you see it or not, or can even bothered to fight against it. And if not that, then the Russians, or (God forbid), the Chinese. Take your pick of poison, J. The lack of compassion, utter arrogance, and self-righteous attitude in your posts speak volumes about who you are as a person.
Who is attacking who?
Stay classy Shadow!
We are all Gazan’s now.
Well, banning plastic bags is something of a Blue State fetish, so after Queen Abigail bans your guns, I’m sure plastic bags will be next.
57 here, been playing/using computers since 1980. Think about how many times your PC has done something odd, or locked up, or crashed. These car sensors are all computers. They are going to do the same thing that ALL computers do. Burb, lock up, crash. When a computer is sitting on your desk what is the harm if it freaks out, but when you are going 70mph…? Will NEVER drive a car that has these nanny aids that you cannot turn off.
Yes. Well, auto PCMs and modules DO cause issues. I had a Body Control Module cause a parasitic draw on one car I had, it was a PITA.
But I’ve never had a car do what my laptop did to me a few years ago. Had an HP that downloaded a factory HP update — and then it fucking bricked itself permanently.
It was cheaper and easier to just buy another one than to fuck with trying to fix it.
This is why I stopped using Windoze 25 years ago.
Well-said, Kong!
Many people do not consider what the effects of time and use will be on these devices, either. I mean, years of exposure to heat and cold cycling, the elements, vibration and jarring… the inevitability of glitches and failures is just exactly that. Inevitable.
I wonder how long it will be before the Urban Diversity™ realizes they can step out in front of cars to stop them, and then visit the glories of diversity upon the helpless car occupants.
It may very well start off like a game of Frogger, AC. That is, the Urban Diversity crowd may have to take their chances as to which vehicle will automatically stop for them (for saaaafety), and which ones will simply plow over them. After all, didn’t their parents teach them not to play in traffic?
If it wasn’t for the government pushing this tech (aka it was the private sector) it would get banned for being unsafe…….. But since its government…… It hits the road half baked.
[…] Wheels Up Wednesday talk and articles today: https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2026/03/11/braking-for-a-bag/ […]
Braking for a Bagholder
‘(Reuters) – Steep depreciation and improving reliability are drawing more Americans to used electric vehicles.
‘Falling resale prices that are also driven by rapid advances in battery technology, range and software have pushed many second-hand EVs closer in cost to comparable gasoline vehicles, while over-the-air updates and a growing charging network are easing earlier concerns about ownership.
‘The rollback of incentives that once fueled EV purchases, coupled with higher vehicle prices, is also helping them gain a larger slice of the roughly $800 billion U.S. pre-owned car market.
‘Like luxury gasoline vehicles, electric cars depreciate quickly as rapid advances in the features offered mean newer models can outpace vehicles just a few years old. That has helped narrow the price gap between electric and gasoline vehicles in the used market.
“Modern EVs should see their battery packs survive the life of the vehicle,” Sam Fiorani of AutoForecast Solutions said, adding that some degradation over time is comparable to the gradual performance loss seen in aging gasoline vehicles.’
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/falling-prices-steer-us-buyers-152930268.html
This delusional screed illustrates the coping technique popularly known as ‘making lemonade when life gives you lemons.’ The ink-stained, frayed-collar wretch who excreted it is based in … Bengalaru, India, which makes him an expert on the US EeeVee market. /sarc
Young Nathan Gomes loves the over-the-air updates on his cellphone. Since cars are just cellphones on wheels, he thinks OTA updates are a great feature for them too. How much ‘steep depreciation’ — normally a bad thing — is needed before the price asymptotically approaches zero?
Then we turn to Sam Fiorani. He claims without evidence that EeeVee battery packs will survive the life of the vehicle — without specifying what that life is (10 years?). Then he utters an absurd lie: that ‘aging gasoline vehicles’ degrade in performance just like EeeVees. Eric has demolished this whopper before. But it just won’t go away among the leftist liars of the cretinous Lügenpresse. 🙁
Actually a plastic bag CAN cause harm to a car. Many years ago I was in a passenger in a car where exactly that happened, the bag got caught up in the cooling fan and destroyed it. We spent the rest of the drive back home (it was like a 4 hour drive) worrying about having to stop as the car started heating up the minute you did.
That being said, hitting the brakes is a much greater danger than the bag could ever be.
I had a plastic bag get stuck (and melt) to a hot catalytic converter.
Good grief, Metal Queen, I am glad you and the driver made it out alive! Of all the stupid things! A plastic bag? It is down there at the bottom of the list with the weaving around squirrels: Both bag and squirrel are far easier to keep yourself safe from (ha ha). Run ’em both over, and keep on truckin’.
I experienced an AEB event on I-40 in a rental SUV a few years back.
Luckily the car obeyed when I punched the gas to override its bad decision.
Otherwise I would’ve been flattened by the 75mph semis coming up behind me.
This stuff is seriously dangerous, and really needs to be outlawed.
One big billion-dollar class action wrongful-death lawsuit, and hopefully it ends.
Ironically real road hazards like potholes or small boulders on the highway (we get plenty of both out in my neck of the woods) are completely ignored. Your “driver assistant” will happily drive full bore into a pothole without pause. I’ve seen it first hand many times in my Cherokee. In fact, if I have lane-keep engaged it will push me back into the center of the lane, where the potholes live.
Like the new guy on the job site, you end up doing your work and his.
New Nissanian here
My like new 2012 Infinity goes so fast it has adjustable following distance sonar warning with the ability to manually turn it OFF with a real switch like any and all other dweebtech in the car.
7″ NON touchscreen is part of Bose head unit. No GPS or navinanny.
Bliss. Added audioengine B1 BT DAC to replace Sirius crap at AUX input and phones play thru Bose perfectly.
Couldnt find any tolerable vehicle post 2013 to buy. Thanks to this site, I was warned. Its heater core is ezpz in pax footwell. Thanks Eric.
Ive seen drivers brake for bags before, not just an auto stopping new car, its really annoying. Or they stop for a deer standing on the side of the road out of their way, but they stop to look at it or whatever.
My mentality is if it fits and/or wont cause damage, I’m running it over. Just need to verify there isnt a rock or piece of metal
‘Federal investigations have already been opened into multiple automotive manufacturers over AEB malfunctions.’ — eric
Ironic, is it not? The US fedgov demands, at gunpoint, that auto makers include AEB by model year 2029. Then it ‘investigates’ them when the half-baked tech shits the bed. Bad doggies!!
A solution is suggested by analogy, in this APe News headline today:
As another shutdown impacts travelers, some see eliminating TSA agents as a solution
DUH!! *face palms*
Why didn’t I think of that?
What a dream that would be. To go back to the Before Times, and when you could bring your food and drink with you. No naked body scanning, no proctology exam as a prerequisite….just get on the plane and go!
Hi Shadow,
After they collect your face scan, retina scan, fingerprint, and scan your passport as you walk through the various metal detectors. The humans will be replaced by robotics.
The old days are gone….unless one flies private. The rest will be processed like a herd of cattle.
Hi RG,
And that’s why I doubt I will ever fly again, at least commercially. I am grateful to the Gods of Good Timing that I was able to attend so many “ride and drives” back in the ’90s, when the car companies would fly me and other journalists to cool places to test drive new cars. All gone now, sadly.
Dodge recently did two fly-in events for the new Charger.
One at the tail-of-the-dragon and another one in Vermont.
IDK if they paid their way or not?
Mostly youtuber’s and some mainstream places like Motortrend, etc…
Indeed Shadow,
When I was a college student back in the 60’s I would take the Eastern Airlines (RIP) shuttle from here to NJ and back. Just walked up and got on the plane; didn’t even need a ticket, paid onboard like it was a flying bus. God I miss those days.
Seeing the humongous crowds waiting to go through “security” at the airport recently I wish a few brave souls would rally the crowd to charge past the TSA in a gigantic stampede. Get out of the way or get trampled.
Yep, I shuttled from LaGuardia to DC and back countless times. No worries about getting to the airport at any particular time. Just stroll up and stroll on, whenever.
Once when I just missed the departure (no big deal, as there would another one in half an hour), it was just me and ex House Speaker Jim Wright at the empty departure gate.
“Ahm a Texan too,” I told him, to make small talk. He gave me a dim porcine glance, then scurried away to the bank of pay phones. Ancient times, LOL!
>When I was a college student back in the 60’s
(Not so) fond memories of flying “student standby” on TWA 1966-1970.
ABQ->ORD->BOS
& reverse.
Lots of wee hours sacked out @ ORD, “waiting for a plane,” but no TSA to f* with you, and no X-rays either. Anyone could just sashay right up to the gate. Gone forever….
If only the shepled public remembered this accurate comment (Bug’s Life). Apparently, people are not sick and tired of this crap yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kZdDJ9GbfM
I played airline jus yesterday
Long term parking $12 a day on airports website. $18 a day on sign at lot. Parked 27 hours, $30.
Paid real id extortion fee of $45.
Had my body radiated
Bitch pig TSA even porued out my RO water and then directed me to a fill station next to restroom doorway pissing more of duh same chlorinated flouridated gubmint poison.
So obvious. . .
Driver and manufacturers have all the responsibility but none of the authority. Qualified immunity isn’t just for police.
Teachers and schools can’t be held responsible for filling kid’s heads with mush and missing signs of mental distress that lead to a school shooting.
It’s the parents, who the same government that disallows you to punish them as wee children or any attempts to pass along your own family cultural norms.
We make the rules, you have to follow them. The rules are perfect by default. You just aren’t following them right.
Jew concept aka rule based order in action.
“the federal safety apparat is likely to warble that older vehicles that do not have AEB constitute a road hazard”
It’ll get worse than this. Not only will it be decreed that a car must have auto braking but that the performance of the braking will need to be equalized. Can’t have a car that auto brakes faster than ones ahead or behind of it.
Everyone will have to drive the same homogenized device with the same characteristics.
Even better when they are networked into a smart system that yours can tell all the cars in 1,000 foot radius that there is a plastic bag floating about. They’ll stop everyone, total grid lock until the proper dozen first responders heroes are dispatched to get that dangerous situation dealt with.
‘Everyone will have to drive the same homogenized device with the same [feeble] characteristics.’ — Russ
As the prophet Kurt Vonnegut warned us:
‘THE YEAR WAS
20812029, and everybody was finally equal. [Ballerinas] were burdened with sashweights and bags of birdshot, and their faces were masked, so that no one, seeing a free and graceful gesture or a pretty face, would feel like something the cat drug in. George was toying with the vague notion that maybe dancers shouldn’t be handicapped.’— Harrison Bergeron
While I do not brake for bags, I do make sure it goes away behind me.
50yrs? ago, my mom drove over one and it got wrapped around the input shaft of the differential, and it kept winding and winding until it destroyed the shaft seal.
I’ve also seen them stuck on the front of cars impeding airflow.
A friend of mine accidently ran over a furniture blanket on the interstate. It wrapped itself around the drive shaft, caught fire and burned his pick-up to the ground.
Why the inability to name the vehicles in both the referenced article and your own claim?
I have no doubt that AEB phantom braking is occurring but I’m genuinely curious why journalists can’t name names. Isn’t who, what, where, when an important detail?
Hi Who,
It was a Prius. Sorry for not including that info. It was not deliberate – in the sense I was trying to protect a manufacturer.
Thanks Eric.
To answer your question “ Who would have been at fault if the suddenly braking car described in the news story had been rear-ended? Can the person behind the wheel who did not touch the brakes be blamed and held responsible for what the car did? For the damage – including possibly physical harm to people?”
In all states, it is the responsibility of the following vehicle to maintain adequate following distance appropriate for conditions to avoid a collision.
Where this is going to go south is that it is also illegal to brake check a following driver. Usually this is hard to prove but dash cams are changing that game.
Where it’s going to get interesting is when the brake checking drivers (whether road raging or seeking insurance fraud) begin to clam that AEB actually did the braking.
Of course the black box will be able to prove who dunnit beyond a shadow of doubt but it’s going to be much harder to get that data to prove the brake checker was acting on their own.
Think of it as AEB giving cover to fraudulent claims. Ie the government mandate for AEB will lead to more fraud and raise all our insurance rates. But of course the goverment won’t care and the insurance companies will make out like bandits. Win-win from their perspective.
And I’ll name a new car I refused to buy when I was told the build date would be the month after AEB was being fitted as standard equipment – VW UP! GTI
The person “tailgating” that couldn’t stop will be blamed. NOT the insane AEB fatwa.
This also presupposes that the current GovCo, Rome on the Potomac, will be around in another three years. Who knows what our Russian or Chinese rulers will demand.
Better the devil we know: stick with our benevolent Israeli rulers! /sarc
The AEB pulling that crap up here on slippery roads could get someone killed. Whoops…I sometimes wonder if that is not the whole idea. And it would be one more excuse for why we plebs should never be allowed to drive and be free. Aah yes, I run into those slow drivers as well. They reason “I am turning left/ right just up ahead so I will go ahead and drive at a snails pace, and who cares how many cars are lined up behind me”. Because pulling over and letting others pass is just too difficult 😀
My 26 year old truck, warts and all, is a gem.
Still driving my 1989 F150, bought for cash brand new in 1989.
300 CID straight 6, 4 speed stick. Deep shadow blue metallic.
~ 70,000 on 2nd engine, a remanufactured NAPA motor.
Everything else is all original, including me (1949 model).
How old is your John Deere hat? Sorry, Adi, couldn’t resist, the “old man with hat” meme is usually true around here. FWIW this 64 model drives a 49 Bonus Built model, and its even better, no damned plastic.
Braking Bad sounds like a good name for a new TV show. Regarding the white bag on the road; in the winter if it wasn’t moving you might assume it was a large chunk of ice and swerve to avoid it.
As for the cars that slam on their brakes; my understanding is that they go after the driver following the car that got hit because they were supposed to be paying attention. But knowing GovCo they might just ban every old car for safety but I’m guessing they might not do that because while the bureaurats would do that the effect on the politicians that signed off on this might end their ride on the gravy train.
“Braking Bad” — AH HA HA HA!
Yeah Jim, I’m evil as I just couldn’t resist that bit of word play.