There’s a lot of talking about houses – single family homes – being unaffordable. It’s not just the house that’s unaffordable. Have you priced a new roof lately?
I have a friend who runs a roofing business. He told me the other day that a new roof that cost $10,000 to do circa 2004 would cost $25,000 to do today. The roof – today – costs more than a single family house did back in the mid-1960s. The cost of a new roof is going up, too. Asphalt shingles are a petroleum product, meaning it takes oil to make them. Oil that has gotten a lot more expensive as a consequence of Trump’s catastrophically reckless (and evil) decision to attack Iran on behalf of Israel. It is not “anti-Semitic” to say so, either.
It is just the fact.
Iran is far away from the United States and in no position to attack the United States. More to the point – if you care about moral considerations – the Iranians hadn’t attacked us. The moral onus is on the attacker – at least insofar as the unctuous history books tell the kids (viz, the perfidious Japanese sneak attack on Pearl Harbor, which Trump seems to admire based on his comments about it as well as his sneak attack upon Iran). The kids are told it is bad when one country sneak attacks another – especially without first declaring war, so as to make clear its intentions. Well, who didn’t do that?
Never mind.
My friend tells me the cost of shingles is going up like the cost of gasoline – and diesel. Enter the double whammy. My friend has several big trucks that have big tanks that hold a lot of gas and diesel. He needs these rigs to carry the heavy loads of shingles (and to haul away the old shingles). The cost he has to pay to fuel his work trucks has gone up by 40-50 percent. Who do you think is paying for that?
The roofing crisis – for it is exactly that, or will soon be one – goes largely unnoticed, so far. That’s because (unlike gas and diesel) most people do not need a new roof right now, so they have no idea what they’re in for when the day comes that they do need a new roof and discover they can’t afford one. What are people gong to do? Well, it’s either tarps on the roof and old pots and pans on the floor – to catch the dribbles – or it’s time for a second (or third) mortgage, to finance the roof that few will be able to afford to just pay for.
Soon, we’ll all be paying for it – via the cost of home insurance. It is going up like a V2 rocket, just like the cost of car insurance. Why? Well, leaving aside the mafia aspect – as in, we’re gonna make him an offer he can’t refuse – the cost to repair damaged roofs has massively increased due to the massive increase in the cost of everything that’s tied to the cost of oil. It’s not the actual cost – of say a tree falling on a house, or an EV burning down a house, though those costs are huge. It is the potential cost of lots of trees falling on lots of houses (and other potential big losses) that are driving up the cost of home insurance, which most “homeowners” have to pay. The air fingers quote marks are used to highlight that if you have a mortgage, you don’t actually own your home. The lender does – and the law says you have to “cover” the lender’s property. If you do not, it is cause to void the mortgage and kick you out of what isn’t really your house.
Of course, it is true that even if you have paid off the mortgage, you still don’t really own your home. Not in a truly meaningful sense. No one who can be evicted for failing to pay rent – which is functionally what property taxes are – is the owner of the house he occupies. The true owner is the one who can evict you for non-payment, the same as any landlord.
But at least you don’t have to pay for the home insurance – if you have paid off the mortgage. That small liberty is still allowed and it is surely why many “homeowners” manage to avoid eviction, by using the money they saved by not buying home insurance to pay the rent; i.e., the property taxes. It is very likely that this “loophole” (the state refers to any small liberty we’re still allowed as a “loophole”) will be cinched tight, using the same pretext that is already used to force people to pay for car insurance. The assertion that those without insurance are “free riders” who impose “costs on society,” even if they never actually do.
Anyhow, even if not there is still the cost of that new roof, which is going to drive many American homeowners into the poorhouse. It will be particularly hard on older, retired people who can’t just get a second job to offset the cost. They’ll have to sell – and take the loss, too. Because a house that needs a new roof will sell for a lot less than one that does not.
All of this because Trump chose to ruin everything. God damn him for that.
. . .
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There are a plethora of things to “God damn him for”. Pretty much any and every thing he does and says. Like all politicians, his primary job is to rape, pillage, and plunder.
Senile psychopath.
While my house has asphalt shingles all my my outbuilding have metal roofing that except for my shop, which I swapped skilled labor for skilled labor to do. The rest of them are sheds of various sizes with metal siding and roofing I did myself. Decades ago the estimate they quoted for my shop was around $6K to remove and replace an existing metal roof and put in a new one. It had about $1.5K in materials. Part of the reason for the high cost is that metal panels can be slippery and hard to work with especially if you’ve never done it yourself so they can charge what they like and most people will just pay it.
And lets face it once you get over 50 most people aren’t rushing to go out and shingle their own roof especially if it’s steep or over 1 story high and once again the contractors charge to the max and people just pay it.
Someone from my neck of the woods commented that to completely fill his 1,000 gallon fuel tank, it cost him a whopping, $6,000! Even if your house is paid for, there is still the property taxes. And if not that, the heating fuel costs will get you!
Are you shittin’ me, Shadow? Whereabouts are you? The Northeast?
I’d be looking for any alternative. More insulation, anything.
If you re-roof your house with shingles, architectural singles are a MUST!
Most come with a 50 YEAR WARRANTY!!!
They are literally about 3X as thick as standard shingles.
When I was “fortunate” enough to “suffer” hail damage that paid for reroofing my home, I asked my roofer what was the most durable and longest lasting shingles, and he told me about them.
Insurance wouldn’t pay extra for them, of course, only for standard contractor grade 10 to 20 year shingles.
It was another $500 for architectural shingles, and I paid it out-of-pocket, since labor is what kills you on the reroof price.
Now, $500 in 2000 was no small sum, but just to have one less headache overhead, literally, for the next 50 years, it’s been one of the wiset expenditures in my homeowing life….
My roof is now 26 years old, and is routinely mistaken as a few years old when contractors and repair guys offer estimates for service and repair work.
Spend once, cry once….Oy Vey!!!
YMMV…
Yup — I was a big advocate of metal roofs, and still like them. But architectural shingles are a good product too — they also have higher wind ratings than the old three-tab shingles.
I paid the upgrade charge for architectural shingles on a shed. Now I need to upgrade the house to match.
This is true. My roof in Florida is 22 years old. 2 years I got the extortion letter from the insurance Mafia saying that my roof is due for replacement.
I bought the t Grand Canyon series when I did mine. It was only a 20% upgrade because labor is the big cost.
I wrote them back telling them my roof has a 50 year warranty against wind and leaks.
After much arguing back and forth I ending up having to get a “certified” inspector to write a report. It cost me $120.00. The report said there was no deterioration and the roof was in “like new” condition.
I tried to tell my neighbors who get new roofs every 12 years to spend a little more upfront it will save you a lot of money using first class materials.
It’s like paint. In Florida people paint their house every 4-5 years. I spend 10% (again the paint cost is only a fraction of the total) to get Benjamin Moore Aura and 15 years later my house looks like it was done last week.
Quality matters.
If I built my home, it would be either a square or a rectangle of wood framing on stone piers. The corners would be substantial beams, and they would be girted to each other and the intervening studs. I would over-frame everything for strength. Single story. The roof would be either shed or gable and it would be metal. The overhangs/eaves would be far beyond what code allows, and be sufficient to cover decks and sheds on every side. From there I could plant posts in the ground and extend the metal roofing out on a shallower pitch, creating the old time ski slope roof which sends water away from the structure with greater velocity.
I would insulate with rock wool and have large windows, possibly plastic (John Ott’s influence). The brick chimney would be in the center of the build. The house would rest atop the wellhead, for good reasons. There would be zero vapor barriers in my home. The siding would be board and batten. No paint used, only linseed oil. Floors and walls would be tongue and groove wood.
One bathroom with claw foot tub. Kitchen with enamel cast iron farm sink. All hardware brass. Front door board and batten, white oak or rock maple.
Before you bring something into the world, it gestates in the mind.
Edit to add: The toilet would be composting – utilizing a lifetime supply of sawdust. For this reason, making the bathroom a bump-out would be ideal.
I agree with the others here that asphalt shingles are one of the many insanities in our society foisted upon us by industry. They make for hot roofs, they’re heavy, short-lived and while some have experimented with recycling them in road construction, for the most part they end up in landfills. Just because everybody does it, doesn’t make it right.
This guy built a home similar to what you’re talking about. Probably cost a fortune unless you can do it yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV7pmE4MC-I
Sounds good to me! On and off I toy with the idea of building myself a little house of my own design, but then the price of materials goes up again….. But the house you describe is a lot like the one in my mind. I’d probably just go with a hip roof- just because I love hip roofs. (Who’m I kidding? I’d end up going with the typical gable end, using the space for storage or extry rooms…)
I will never, ever put an asphalt-shingle roof on anything I own ever again. It will always be a steel roof and it’s not too difficult to DIY. I view most roofing companies as predatory. They come after storm to do “inspections”. They appear to conspire with insurance companies. Never again.
Some steel roof paneling comes with a 40-year warranty. If you pay attention and repaint when and where necessary, a steel roof will likely last you the rest of your life.
Mist contractors are predatory. If they’re busy, they’ll throw a stupidly expensive quote at you just to see if you’re dumb enough to pay it, sucka.
And if you are stupid enough to pay it, they’re going to have Mexicans and/or felons do the actual labor.
I worked for a small contractor as a helper when I was in grad school in the 1990s for $7 an hour under the table. They made an OK living, but they didn’t get rich. I think they charged $25 an hour was considered big money. And they did very high-quality work.
Today it’s different. You can hardly find anyone willing to return your calls and the ones who do are likely to be ripoff artists. Finding a good, affordable contractor is like hitting the lottery.
I totally agree with all of that, X. I had major plumbing work to do with my old house, including running it all to the sewer, for which we were already paying and had done so for years. The total job would’ve been at *least* $40 with most contractors. Even when I had done most of it and had just the piping to run up from the sewer connection and under the house (I had already dug the trench), I had a guy quote me $10k to finish the job.
It was a bitch, but I did all that work for about $1k.
Also to your point, there was one guy who I guided through the work I needed. He was even the family of a friend, but after that little tour, he’d never even return my phone calls.
I had my roof replaced about two years ago. I paid $12,500. Had quotes that ranged from 12 thou to 24 thou. The metal rood estimate was out of sight. My roof is steep and the house is about 50X25. I’d do it myself but I’m in the late seventies. The owner was Amurican but used all Mexican labor which I did not know when I signed the contract.
I wife inherited a rural cottage about 35 years ago with the roof being about 35X35. The roof was not steep and also leaked so I got three estimates. The roof had two layers that had to be removed also. This was about 25 years ago. My long time friend who did roofing using Mexican labor quoted me $1,600 and I was expected to help. I did it myself for about $700. So much for friends. A large saving and money in my pocket. The $700 included roofing equipment (shingles,rented dumpster,nails,hammer etc plus a few 4X8 sheets and a few 2X4’s to replace rotted sections). It took me four weekends. This was about 25 years ago when I was only 50 years old.
The roofing and labor costs are out of sight these days but so is just about everything except maybe food. The peasants have to eat of course or else they’ll riot.
I do believe that socialism is in our future. Heaven help us.
Hey Europeasant,
You’d have to wonder why you could get an entire 30x40x11 ft. steel building for $18k, delivered and installed, but a metal roof for a 50×25 ft. house is “out of sight”:
https://www.americanmetalbuildings.com/metal-garages/30x40x11-metal-garage/
I had a quote from the E##i(named after a lake) roofing folks. The quoted price for shingles shocked me. The quote for the metal left me unconscious.
They really worked hard on me. It was difficult to get rid of that salesman.
God, do I hate pushy salesmen. Con artists, all.
All the houses I built out west were with painted metal panels, never need to be replaced, do not catch on fire. And they can be removed and recycled to new projects. All my sheds and barns were built with free used panels.
It is insane to use asphalt shingles.
I absolutely concur, Jack!
PS: I’m wondering if TPTB are OK with this and actually like it ‘cause it’s a way to get those pesky old farts out of their houses—and people of all ages out of their houses—and into the 15-minute stack-a-prole urban high rises, where you’ll own nothing and like it!
My house has a tile roof. It can last for a century or more. But I have to keep replacing underlay, which ain’t cheap.
The joys of home ownership. Roof, driveway, HVAC. I have a 5000 sq ft roof, it will be well north of $30k to replace it is now 20 years old the clock is ticking. Very windy here in Central WA lost part of it in April. Lucky I found a repair guy to fix it, RoofMaxx’d it as well.
HVAC heat and AC that was 2 years ago that was $18k. Asphalt driveway seal coat every 2 years $1800.
If my property tax was just cut in half I’d have the roof money in about 12 years.
DIY that roof Sparkey! Ahh, no. 71 soon to be 72, steep roof 95 degree summers Ill put up with the Mariachi music from the truckload of boarder jumpers ALL the roofing companies hire. (Not a joke, here in the ‘hood you can tell when a roof is replaced via the blare of musical cultural enrichment)
Same here, Sparkey!
I roofed with my buddy – the guy who has the business – back when we were 20. I’m not 20 anymore, either. Thankfully, I bought a 50 year roof 20 years ago. I hope it actually lasts that long.
Switch to a metal roof and hire Amish or Mennonites to put it on for you.
Seconded! Nothing lasts longer than a simple metal roof. It’s a lifetime roof, and the cheapest roof you can get. Lots of pretty colors to choose from too. You’ll never have a leak as long as you don’t punch holes in it. Only reason they’re not universal and ubiquitous is because they’re probably illegal in 95% of the places that have codes.
Housing? How About the Ceiling?
Donnie Demento: “Help! I’m locked in a doll house, and my hair is tearing on the porch ceiling!”
https://tinyurl.com/yxs2233c
Socialism is on deck next. No one will truly own their home in the US once that happens.
The selling point of the Green New Deal to minority women is that a vast army of them will be hired across the country to “evaluate” the country’s existing housing stock for energy efficiency and “supervise” the never ending forced renovations/inspections to meet the ever-changing draconian standards imposed by the administration of the former cocktail waitress.
Whoever created the breaking bad / trump meme was spot on.
I’ve found that steel roofing is well worth the price. I find it easier to install and much lower maintenance. Once installed it may get dented in a hail storm but otherwise its good for a human lifetime.
It may end up being cheaper as asphalt roofing goes up. But it does still cost fuel to haul and do the job.
Two months ago, we were told our 20-year-old steel roof needed replacement.
No leaks, just some rust in spots and some mounting screws visibly popping out.
We were quoted $85,000 to replace; $30,000 for asphalt shingle.
Jaw-dropping.
After shelling out $11,000 in insurance premiums, we’ll roll the dice.
Let the chips (or trees) fall where they will…
Metal is cheaper than asphalt where I live. Goes on quicker too.
Modern society has migrated towards two source inputs that were abundant, useful, and cheap: oil and electricity.
Both are now less than cheap and abundant.
Some people might think that if we are going to keep using these inputs, maybe effort would be put into keeping them that way, or move to something better suited. I guess those people would be wrong.
Apparently the genius move is to make it near impossible to increase available electricity and create a shortage or oil.
Where would we be without the mental overlords making such intelligent decisions for us?
Roofs? Pffft. You can buy suppressors for your machine gunz now or sumpin’! What’s with all the 2 min hate on at least he’s not Kamala? You’re playing right into the agenda, bro.
I have no idea what to make of your comment. Dr. Chudley.
Maybe you’ll explain?
I left off the sarc tag. Didn’t think it would be necessary. Oh well, just some Saturday humor derived from the goings on here in recent comment sections.
Roger that. Dr. Chudley!
Just wanted to clarify!