I wrote a couple week back (see here) about how increasingly Draconian punishments for relatively minor – and purely statutory (i.e., involving no harm to others) traffic offenses – for example, a “reckless driving” cite for nothing more than traveling over 80 MPH, or more than 20 MPH faster than any speed limit – are giving drivers an incentive to flee rather than pull over. Why not? On the one hand, there’s the sure thing of a huge fine, a likely mandatory court appearance, possible jail time, almost certain loss of license and guaranteed doubling in cost of your state-mandated extortion (insurance) for the next 3-5 years. . . On the other hand, freedom from all of that – at the risk of doubling down.
I don’t recommend it – but I do understand it.
But, before you think about trying to Bo and Luke ol’ Roscoe P. Coltrane – who has morphed into a PTS’D Officer 82nd Airborne and swapped his never-to-be-fired-in anger six-shooter for a hair-trigger Glock 40 – keep in mind the following:
If you don’t get away – if they do catch you – you will be going to jail.
And, you may stay there for awhile. In most states, “eluding” or “attempting to elude” a cop is at least a major misdemeanor – and can be a felony. In my home state (VA), the very least you’ll be charged with is a Class 2 Misdemeanor, which carries a potential six month stay in Hotel Graybar. They may also charge you with a Class 6 Felony – a serious bust with severe immediate ramifications – not less than 1 year in the clink/$2,500 fine – and daunting lifelong repercussions: You’ll be a convicted felon for the rest of your life and as such, de-barred possession of firearms, among other things.
You might also wreck and hurt yourself – or someone else. That’s not something you want on your conscience.
Also, know yourself – and respect your limits. This sort of thing requires a higher-than-average skill set as a wheelman – and the steady nerves to go with it. If you’re not a very good driver – and very calm under pressure – do not attempt.
Bottom line: Think carefully about making a break for it – and be aware of and prepared for the consequences. It is not something to be done lightly. And if done at all, only do it when the odds are stacked in your favor.
You’ve got “the drop” on the cop.
Classic scenario: You’re on the highway, running 80-ish . . . along with everyone else. Even though the speed limit is 70, you know that the 82 you’re running is statutory “reckless driving.” You pass a cop in a cut-out, obviously running radar. You glance in your rearview, see him turn on his lights or some other clue that he’s coming after you. Bad news.
But – the good news – you’re already moving at 80-plus and he is hardly moving at all. You know it will take him at least a critical minute or two to enter the highway from the cut-out and get up to speed – and get behind you. There are lots of other cars he must bob and weave around to reach you, too.
You’ve got “the drop” on the cop. The odds are stacked in your favor.
You’ll be out of his immediate sight for a few precious moments and given that you passed him doing 80-plus while he was stationary, it is extremely unlikely he was able to see more than color, make and model. Certainly not your plate numbers. *
If you’ve got the nerve to do it, this is a scenario that makes sense – insofar as trying to dodge the cop. Rather than slow down and await the inevitable chicken-plucking, you could ramp up your speed. Put distance between you and the cop. Then, take the second exit off the freeway. The cop will assume you took the first one.
So, you take the second one.
Now, disappear. Get off the main roads. Get out of sight. If it’s an urban area, find a large (and full of other cars) parking lot – and park. Then do some shopping. Take a long time. If it’s a rural setting, take the back roads – and make numerous left and right turns. Find a quiet place, one not visible from any major road – and park it. Hunker down. Wait at least a few hours before – very carefully – creeping away from the scene.
It’s rare (assuming simple eluding) that the cops will throw out a dragnet with checkpoints and such. But the cops will be on the lookout.
And they will be mad.
After a few hours, you can probably risk coming out of hiding. At this point, you have plausible deniability, even if a cop does see you. What, officer? No – that wasn’t me. I’ve been shopping (or whatever – make it up) for the past several hours. You’re mistaken. You’re looking for someone else.
Keep in mind that unless he got your plate – not likely – he can’t know it’s you – and proving it in court would be hard. This assumes, of course, that you aren’t driving a highly recognizable – and highly unusual – vehicle. If you were driving a lisptick red Viper, don’t run – unless you’ve got a friend with an empty semi truck with ramps down and ready to provide you a hidey-hole (and cart your ass out of the county – the state – incognito).
Another option is to call a friend – one of the few times a sail fawn can be genuinely useful – and have him pick you up. Leave the car; pick it up later on – after the heat has died down.
Final thought: If you do get caught, never admit you knew you were being pursued. I had no idea you were back there, officer. This is crucial – because it’s a viable legal defense. Stick to it. Admit nothing – and say nothing, except for that.
Good luck – and be careful.
Throw it in the Woods?
* Be aware that in a growing number of jurisdictions – major urban areas, mostly – cops now have have plate scanners, machines that automatically read/record the license numbers of passing cars. If they have these in your area, forget fleeing. You’re already caught – no matter what you do. Might as well just pull over. Or wait for them to show up at your house.
I guess my approach to running would be this: do it if only 100% sure you can get away with it. Does my vehicle have the capability of outrunning the cops? Is it fast enough? Does it handle well enough? Am I a good enough driver to pull it off?
If you’re not 100% sure about getting away with it, then don’t do it. By running, you’ve already ramped up whatever charges you would have received in the first place. In many jurisdictions, you’ll be looking at jail; that’s a best case scenario. You’ll probably also be beaten and/or shot by the cops you tried to elude.
eric, even though you may be “caught” by a plate scanner, you should never admit you were there or knew anything about it. Don’t pull over and let them just have you dead to rights. An old lawyer I knew once told me Deny, deny, deny, never back off your story and just deny. They have to prove their scanner didn’t screw up(it’s way best to go to court and pay whatever it takes, believe me)and there isn’t the possibility of it doing so which we all know is possible and so does a jury when a good lawyer convinces them so. If nothing else, pull your plates when you get home and DISPOSE of them. What better cover for stolen plates than getting them off an identical vehicle? Deny, deny, deny. This is when good friends can make or break you and good friends won’t hesitate to lie lie lie. No occifer, he was down and dirty in the trenches right here with us that day, never left of let up. One, two three people saying this goes a long way. Yes, they have to be committed but what are friends for? Think I wouldn’t do that for a friend? And if they accused me of lying? Lie, lie, lie. Never give them an inch. If they lose they’ll be pissed, but that’s for another day. It’s time to trade vehicles.
Just as I posted the above comment the ad disappeared briefly and I could read the article.
Then…It came back but has shifted to the right side of the page exposing the article.
You have a VERY IRRITATING GOOGLE AD that keeps coveing the text of your article and it moves as your scroll through the article.
GET RID OF IT!
NO ONE CAN READ YOUR ARTICLE!
Back in simpler times, way earlier than any statue of lilmiations today, I had a few adventures evading the coppers. Once, late 1960’s, driving my plain jane boring Peugeot 504 south through Camp Pendleton, CA on the nice new eight lane freeway, no offramps for about fifteen miles, I was cruising at about 85…. gently weaving lanes to work through 60 mph traffic. Kept noticing a “noticeable” car in the rearview…. seemed it was almost pacing me. I had learned about CHP’s speed verification methods as I sat in a courtoom waiting for my turn (technical citation, which I beat, handily), and knew all he needed was another landmark for a waypoint and he’d have me. Pulled into left (centre) lane, still barrelling, passed a 45 foot dryvan semitrailer and tractor, moved over in fron of him (now out of sight of suspect tail), took the number two lane, now with rig between me and tail, moved right one more lane, then, when I could not see the tail, pulled onto the wide shoulder, came to a fast halt, snapped the bonnet pull, got out, grabbing a jug of water from the rear floor, opened the bonnet, stood there on the offside with the jug making as if I were pouring water into the rad…. copper passed me by, giving me the evil eye (it WAS, indeed, a CHP) but continued. I waited a few minutes, when I restarted and kept the kerb lane diong the posted limit till we were out of the “chute”.
A few years later I lived in a tiny town at the head of a wide valley, four lane freeway going right to it, and ending into two lane just past the offramp to the town. I was flying along in a stage Two prepped MGA, hitting probably about 90 on the flat. It was dark, but a half decent moon. I knew the area intimately. CHP heading westbound, saw my obvious high speed, I noted his brakelamps as he slowed. I poured on more coal, doused the headlamps, and continued. He had to find the turnthrough to get himself round to heading my way. As I began to mount the overpass and exit, I could barely make out his headlamps in hot persuit, quite a ways back. I took the offramp, killing the ignition switch so as to NOT activate the brakelamps as I slowed for the hard turn at the end of the ramp. Suspecting he’d cruise the town, I turned onto the first road, a few blocks later onto a back side road, headed for a friend’s place. It was ten, eleven, at night the town asleep. I drove slowly so as to not make noise or attract other attention. No fences in the yards, I pulled off the road and drove the car round the back of his house…. parked close up to his house, shut it down, hopped out without opening the door (hood down, no sidelights), and, as I passed the front of his house I heard him ask “Hey, what’s going on”? I replied “need to park the car, I’ll be back in the morning to get it”, OK, fine. As I walked the ten or so blocks home I noted the low rumble of a tuned large V8 engine just off the tickover, cruising through town. I just walked home, went to bed, returned the next morning for the car.
One more story of successful evasion.. back in the Double Nickel Shuffle days I ilved in Vancouver BC, but headed south on a fairly frequent basis. I drove a 1964 Volvo 122, dead stock B-18 and four speed. Heading south on I-5 one trip, as I blasted through Tacoma and Lakewood, I was opening it up to about 85, my favourite cruising speed (it would do that all day long, deliver 42 miles per gallon at that speed.. WHY should I suffer at 55, getting about 30 MPG?). Three lanes, myself in the centre one, moved right one to overtake and pass another car diong about 50, who sped up to about 80 as I approached. Just as we dropped a bit for a wide left hand sweeper, he in the left ,I in the centre, I at 85, he at 80, as we came round the bridge abutment for the railroad overpass into the Nisqually River delta I noted a white Crown Vic in the left turnout. Instantly grabbed a large footful of brakes, dropping my speed to maybe 65. Left land fellow hadn’t seen the copper, continued apace. I further slowed to 60, left land driver just became aware of the WaSP…. brakelights on, but too late. Copper rolled, fell in right behind him, they slid on over to the right lane and had a visit. I opened up the SU’s once more and continued on my way, certain the cop had no suspicion of MY higher speed, as what he could SEE was the radar number and the obviously faster car, then passing me at about 20 mph more speed. Sorry, chap, but if you’re going to drive fast, keep your eyes well peeled. I drove that crazy car probably 60K miles at those speeds, never once got nabbed. Had other Volvos would do the same thing…. wish I had one now.
Cool stories, Tionico. Heroic even.
I would say it’s very ‘American’, but I’m not sure what that word means anymore.
Awesome Tionico. Nothing better than to know there’s a pig frying his bacon and unable to sleep that night thanks to his own incompetence being shoved back up him.
Back in my Army days in 1990, a friend of mine from the same unit in Sydney also had a BMW K100 RT bike. We used to go on long rides and note where the usual radar traps were. Often we’d go out at night and find a cop manning one of these in the bushy divider between the freeway, waiting for headlights to approach him from the oncoming side of the freeway so he could paint his target.
The first time we did this was for a lark, but it soon became a mission. We’d see a cop and carry on for several k’s until we found a crossover. With headlights off and approaching 220k’s in speed, the cop never managed to get his headlights pointed at us before we were out of sight. We’d then brake hard, hide in the centre scrub and watch the fool fly past in hot pursuit of nothing.
We’d keep an eye on nights of a favourable moon so we could see and that’s when we’d strike. Some nights, no matter where we went, no cop. With changes in moons and cops to harass (including military exercises), it worked out random enough so they were never ready for us. In fact, I doubt they even managed to see the make and model, let alone get an accurate speed reading.
How not to run:
In a bankrupt police state, running is punishable by execution. This construction worker with a 4 year old daughter was merely under surveillance and wanted for questioning. Question they felt were so important, they had issued a warrant. No actual harm or crime had occurred.
They had boxed him in and about to take him into custody, when he tried to drive off. They became enraged and over 20 shots were fired into his vehicle, several them in the direction of an unrelated driver.
Darrius was killed on a crowded street in Beloit WI [Pop. 90,000. Murder rate: 1 per year]. There were many mundanes on hand and they heard him scream and yell in pain as he died. One praetorian could be heard casually asking another, “is that brain matter?” as they proudly surveyed the dead mans dead tissue and blood from their gruesome and heartless handiwork.
Here is Darius’ obituary paid for by his family:
Darrius Lowery-Baptiste was granted his angel wings on June 11, 2013. Darrius had touched so many in some small way throughout his short, yet very memorable life.
Darrius life would seem too short to many, but those who were touched by him understood that the quality of existence far exceeds the quantity of time in which one lives. His huge smile and big heart brought so much joy to our family.
Over the last 23 years of his life there were many accomplishments. Darrius completed his HSED in 2007. He received many certificates for his achievements. He became a certified fork lift operator also receiving his bricklaying and masonry certificate in May 2011. He was very active in his younger family members’ lives whether it was paying for football camps or the daily drive to school. He also was very active in his own daughter’s life and accepting the responsibility of raising her and being her back bone. He also had accepted Christ and was baptized at St. Joseph COGIC, West, MS.
Darrius is survived by his loving daughter Desire Lowery; parents, Daphne Lowery, West, MS & Daniel Baptiste Jr, of Beloit, WI. Brothers, Anthony (Charlene) Lowery & Daniel Baptiste all of Beloit, and Zachary Robinson of Georgia. A sister, Natesha Lowery of West, MS. Grandmother Pauline Lowery of West, MS. Five aunts & three uncles.
Pigs Fear White Sedan Transformation Into WMD
Services will be held at Rosman Uehling Kinzer Funeral Home Tuesday June 18, 2013 with visitation starting at 11am and the funeral to begin at 12pm.
The DARPA cybermutt has us trapped, now what?
– America used to be a big idiotic dog like Beethoven. But now this mutt has been militarized and made rabid and violent, and has become like Cujo. The effeminate penniless AmeriKans and their sissified fat brats are now trapped in the 1978 Ford Pinto Runabout, and they have no idea what to do next.
There’s some disgusting comments on Liveleak re the killing of that young man.
Coplickers having goregasms.
Klavdy – I’d say some of them posting their clearly violent outlook on “law and order” (i.e. submit & obey) were most probably cops themselves. Some of the others clearly identified themselves as military veterans. Since the police seem to prefer recruiting veterans and preferably “ground-pounders” and “grunts” (i.e. those specifically trained to follow orders without question and boot-stomp anyone that doesn’t immediately roll over and show their soft white underbelly), it’s no wonder we’re seeing the flagrant abuses of police power that now blanket the Internet. Worse yet, far to large a portion of the populace venerate the police state and imperial military actions, chanting “USA! USA! USA!” the whole while people that don’t that haven’t done anything to them are beaten, tortured (that’s what pepper spray and tazers are kids; toture devices) and killed. God help you if you are black, brown or yellow.
Of course we get a version from pigos that doesn’t make sense. Naturally they didn’t fire but 3-4 rounds but the car is riddled.
Liveleak out of London is tightly controlled as far as allowed content and comments. It is owned and run by Hayden Hewitt. Anti-Obama and anti-PTB vids, comments, and accounts are generally deleted any time they are discovered.
Here’s a vid of Hayden with the NATO’s General Van Loon discussing the new reality of video journalism.
Hewitt also owns ogrish, which is a hardcore community of pigs and soldiers who trade and discuss war and police state violence porn. [warning: site makes revenue via pr0n shilling ]
Here’s one of the tamer vids that ends with Porky jumping on a car’s hood and shooting the driver dead at point blank range.
Here’s a vid of dog torture that got 5 star ratings from our “heroes” who protect and serve themselves
– I have to go puke now. These are the types that enforce the so called social “order,” may they all perish and may their numbers decrease.
But, every now and then, one wins… I have a story to share… bear with….
Ah, here we are:
Here’s another story about cowardly cops:
Police in Concord, New Hampshire want to get an armored vehicle because – gasp! – some frightening people from the Free State Project have moved into town, and the cops are afraid they could be potential terrorists.
As long as I’m ranting, here’s another cop story:
I think that every cop in America should be fired and made to re-apply for new a job with some actual standards, beyond “Smash up or murder anyone you like; wet your pants at any real or imagined danger.”
some folks have gotten the backstory on this Concord attempt at militarising, and have exposed the fraud and false statements in the application. Looks like this one is going down in flames. Too bad they ALL don’t get shot down. Some Condord PD brass have their backsides in a tight spot for falsifying entris on the application for their new toys. Looks good on em.
It seems simple enough, ‘Abolish Your Local Police’
Here is a true story as told by a good friend.
When my friend was in the military he had a courier job carrying documents from base to base. They’d put whatever they were carrying in the courier bag and have a two man escort from place to place. One would drive and the other would be the document carrier. Both driver and courier were in combat fatigues and both were armed. One day on a particularly long Friday with lots of stops to make the driver pulls out his portable radar detector and plugs it into the cigarette ligher socket and throws it on the dash and the driver takes off. The driver wanted to get home early. My friend chuckles to himself because he’s not driving so what does he care. It won’t be his ticket.
Then they crossed the state line and drove into Virginia where radar detectors were illegal. The next thing you know they blow right past a cop. The driver slows down but doesn’t slam on the brakes. My friend in a burst of inspiration grabs the radar detector off the dash, unlocks the courier bag and stuffs the radar detector in the bag and relocks it. The cop catches up and has a cow once he realizes that it is a gov’t plated vehicle. He orders both guys out of the vehicle. The driver and my friend with the courier bag gets out of the vehicle and the cop proceeds to do a search for the radar detector. Both the driver and my friend play dumb.
My friend says that the cop frantically searched the vehicle for at least fifteen minutes until he too had an epiphany. The cop walks up and proclaims “The radar detector is in the bag! Open the bag!”
My friend: “No sir, I can’t let you do that.”
Cop, getting more put out: “I’m ordering you to open the bag!”
My friend: “I can’t let you do that, sir”
Cop: “If you don’t open the bag I’m going to take it and open it myself”.
That’s when my friend calmly played his trump card. My friend put his hand on his loaded service weapon and calmly stated “Sir, I am authorized to shoot you if you attempt to gain access to this pouch.”
Knowing he was beat the cop stomped back to his prowler and called for backup. State troopers came and they huddled together. My friend said at one point the State Trooper came up to him trying to play the good cop and laughing about it said to my friend “It’s in the bag isn’t it?”
My friends calm reply. “Sir, I’m not allowed to disclose to anyone the contents of this pouch.”
They kept them for another ten minutes or so but were forced to let them go. My friend did say that they followed them all the way to the gate guard at the next base where they were forced to turn back.
And when they left an hour later they followed them all the way out of the state of Virginia. Needless to say they drove perfectly all the way home.
Now I can’t be sure that the story is completely factual. But the way my friend tells it it sure is believable knowing him.
Nevada cracks down…
“Driving 120 mph? Troopers crack down on speeding into Las Vegas”
And what does it net them?
“For the first six months of 2012, compared with the same period last year, injury accidents in the Nevada Zero Tolerance zone fell by more than half, Hixson said. Troopers gave out 8,000 citations for the period, compared with 6,000 in 2013.
So far this year, there has been just one fatal crash on the stretch, compared with four in 2012.”
It’s not about safety. 8000 citations x (fine + cost of court) for 4 accidents/fatalities. That’s a .0005% chance of dying versus the $$$ they siphon away.
If you unhide all the comments for that article, you’ll be presently surprised at how awake and skeptical the majority of them are. Seems NV Gov Sandoval just vetoed a bill to post all rural highways at 85 mph. Guess NV wants to keep falling further behind TX, FL, and the Mexican tourist towns.
“Quite an experience to live in fear isn’t it? That’s what it is to be a slave.”
-Roy Batty-Nexus-6 Replicant Leader
Roy Batty is a renegade. Highly intelligent, fast, skilled at combat, yet still learning how to deal with developing emotions. With an A Physical Level (superhuman strength & endurance) and an A Mental Level (genius-level intellect), he is the most dangerous of all the fugitive replicants. He is a combat model, used off-world for military service. He and five other replicants come to Earth, hoping to find a way to lengthen their life span. He is able to use J.F. Sebastian to get a meeting with Tyrell, the head founder of the company and his creator. Tyrell refers to him as his “prodigal son”, and tells him his life can not be extended, but that he should revel in the life he lived and be thankful he has done and seen things others could only dream of.
Upon hearing that, Roy Batty kills Tyrell and Sebastian. Deckard retires the remaining replicants and is hunted by a dying Roy. Trying to escape, Deckard ends up dangling from a building and saved from the fall by Roy. As he dies, Roy tells Deckard about the amazing things he saw in his life and how all those memories would be gone forever. He then smiles, saying, “Time… to die.” and passes away.
-Do Androids Dream?
In the original Philip K Dick novel, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, he was the leader of the eight androids (or “andys” as they are often referred to) who killed their human owners so that they could escape their life of slavery on Mars. Roy was married to Irmgard Baty, another android. Roy’s relationship with Pris (who was his lover in the film) in the novel is only one of friendship. Character portrayed by Rutger Hauer.
Tor, thanks much. As a PKD fan, I don’t know how I missed that. I will rectify that error soon though. I never cease to be amazed at how the MSM simply overlooks the best fiction writing simply because it’s sci-fi. I, on the other hand, have read sci-fi since single digit age and love it all. Seems like I might have read the book but Rutger Hauer in a movie eludes me….but not for long….
I’m a great fan of PDK. The movie, of course, was very different from the novel. But both are – in my opinion – excellent.
The major missing element from the book in the movie is the concept of Mercerism – empathy for other life, as I understand it. PDK uses reverence for animals to explore this, along with the tools Deckard uses to identify the Andys (i.e., their supposed lack of emotional response).
The guy was brilliant – and a superb prose stylist, too.
I highly recommend “The Man in the High Castle,” if you haven’t already read it.
Will definitely check it out. A four hour mini-series by Ridley Scott for Syfy based on that book is in production right now.
Man 1n The High Castle
Man 1n The High Castle Audiobook
PKD discusses the dumbed-down, repressed, anti-intellectualism of the American Police State
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. No, the true measure of a man is this: how quickly can he respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give.
This, to me, is the ultimately heroic trait of ordinary people; they say no to the tyrant and they calmly take the consequences of this resistance.
Maybe each human being lives in a unique world, a private world different from those inhabited and experienced by all other humans. If reality differs from person to person, can we speak of reality singular, or shouldn’t we really be talking about plural realities? And if there are plural realities, are some more true (more real) than others? What about the world of a schizophrenic? Maybe it’s as real as our world. Maybe we cannot say that we are in touch with reality and he is not, but should instead say, His reality is so different from ours that he can’t explain his to us, and we can’t explain ours to him. The problem, then, is that if subjective worlds are experienced too differently, there occurs a breakdown in communication and that is the real illness.
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.
Today we live in a society in which spurious realities are manufactured by the media, by governments, by big corporations, by religious groups, political groups. So I ask, in my writing, What is real? Because unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo-realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms. I do not distrust their motives; I distrust their power. They have a lot of it. And it is an astonishing power: that of creating whole universes, universes of the mind. I ought to know. I do the same thing.
If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.
You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go. It is the basic condition of life, to be required to violate your own identity. At some time, every creature which lives must do so. It is the ultimate shadow, the defeat of creation; this is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life. Everywhere in the universe.
There will come a time when it isn’t ‘They’re spying on me through my phone’ anymore. Eventually, it will be ‘My phone is spying on me’.”
When you are crazy you learn to keep quiet.
That’s the story of life: what you most fear never happens, what you most yearn for never happens either, this is the difference between life and fiction.
I want to write about people I love, and put them into a fictional world spun out of my own mind, not the world we actually have, because the world we actually have does not meet my standards. I have never yielded to reality. That’s what SF is all about. The SF writer sees not just possibilities but wild possibilities.
One of the best things any libertarian can do is to learn all the local and state laws in your area. More times then not the cops will break a handful of them in executing their task which automatically result in the dismissal of the cases. The best way to put the cop on notice is when they are telling you what they ‘have’ on you just reply with “What statue does that fall under and do you have the number or a copy of it?” If they say no then inform them you will be by the police department later in the day to collect copies of all the statues they claim you violated.
Once you collect those statues then look up the relevant state laws and I am sure you will find them standing in stark contradiction. Most of the time local governments pass junk that carries more fines or are a lot more vague then the state law which trumps them.
If you play your cards right you can normally suppress evidence or get a case tossed on a technicality. I have done it 3 times do far… once for speeding and two times because the police did not like me having unregistered cars in my driveway.
It really depends on the cop, but knowing the law well can get them to eventually realize it isn’t worth the work on their part especially when the ticket is going to be sketchy or just plain bogus. However expect to make the cop angry by doing so. His primary tool is intimidation and he will use it more times than not IME. I suppose the best one is where an angry cop called me an “asshole” because he knew he was stuck legally.
I have had cops call me many different names over the course of my adult life. Most of them are not proper to repeat in polite company. I really like it when they ask you “Are you a F’in lawyer or something?” to which I always reply “Does it make a difference if I am.” (I am not a lawyer). The other thing I really like to do is when they do a traffic stop for speeding at night and ask you “Have you been drinking tonight?” to which I reply “Is that relevant to the reason you stopped me?”
Most of the time they just get sick of you toying with them and they move on to find some other person they can get to cower at their greatness.
Cower at their personally “implied” geatness 😉
I usually ask them if what they’re referring to is either a Law or a Statute. Most of them can’t answer because they don’t know the difference. In Australia the road rules haven’t been passed into law and there’s no Hansard (minutes of the meeting) in any Parliament that proves they have. With that, I then ask the cop how he could legally use the road rules against anyone. I actually got one cop to emit a stutter over that.
If he refers to the Road Safety Act (a Statute), then I ask him to direct me to the valid Law or Act where it binds a flesh and blood human being to a Statute without that human required to being in agreement to be so bound. There is no such thing and often they give me an angry warning instead. Yes – they look for a softer target.
The police couldn’t possibly be privatized, because entrepreneurs are smart enough not to waste $1,000 worth of resources in chasing someone down to write them a $200 ticket.
I can totally attest to the “if you have the drop on them” concept.
Twice in my life I have truly had “the drop” and in the first incident I accidentally used it but the second time I totally took advantage.
The first time was when I passed a girlfriend (she in her car, me in mine) on a single lane 35 MPH doing about 50. I went under an underpass and thought it would be “cute” to take the next right, immediately flip a U and poke my head back out to the main road she was on and hopefully let her go by and pull in behind her. Heh heh….she came by all right…and then His Porcine Majesty came SCREAMING BY (at this point the road turns into 4 lane) and before I could realize that Porkster was after ME, I pulled out behind BOTH of them. I immediately realized that he was after me so I took the next right into a neighborhood and parked and just waited. He came screaming down the small neighborhood road (you know…the one you should never drive more than, say, 20 or you’ll kill yourself or someone else)…anyway…he did the typical shine his searchlight into my mirror and then shine his flashlight deep into my brain as he tried to get me to incriminate myself. I was very young (like 16?) and I played stupid VERY well (probably because I WAS stupid). He and I both knew he had lost sight of me in the underpass so this swine tried everything he could think of to get me to admit. After I said I was in this neighborhood to “visit a friend”, he roared “YOU BLOWIN’ SMOKE UP MY ASS BOY????”. I dutifully cowered and said “no…no…of course not occifer”. Heh heh…there was nothing more he could do. My girlfriend waited for me at my house and the evening continued (nicely…by the way).
The second incident was actually more fun. Fast forward a few years to college and me and a friend were driving BACK to college after a nice weekend at home. We had his radar detector mounted and were doing 80 in a 55 (this is between Tri-Cities, WA and Pullman, WA). This is where it gets interesting. My friend and I had both recently read a very popular book about how to use radar detectors and how to avoid tickets, so we had at least a rudimentary knowledge of “reasonably doubt” and “gosh…if they lose sight of you, then you have reasonable doubt” (this was waaaaaaaay before license plate readers by the by). So it’s interesting because Porky McPorkelstein used a tactic that we had never seen before (but you folks being very knowledgeable about this stuff have probably considered it old hat)….we’re barreling along at 80 (at night) on the 55 straight-away and this car approaches us and at the VERY LAST MINUTE before he passes us he flips on his radar. Well…as you can imagine, our radar detector screams as though it’s been killed, the copper passes us (he’s probably doing 70, we’re at 80 remember) and I immediately SLAM on the brakes. Bad move. I see him instantly flip his lights and hit his brakes and start trying to turn around quickly. Luckily for us we are approaching a wide turn in the road. I slam it back up to 80, go around the turn, and lo and behold, there’s an old farm road with a long line of trees along it. I barrel down that road, pull in behind the trees (facing the highway!) and shut everything down. To say we were laughing hysterically (and this is with no drugs/alcohol) would be an understatement. We were HOWLING in laughter. It was actually (get this?) FUN. Sigh. Our porcine enemy never did show up, so we kind of think he/she had a good laugh at how he scared the poo out of us and we not only had fun but learned an appropriate lesson: if you have the drop (and by gosh we TOTALLY had the drop when you consider two objects moving at high speed away from each other), then FLY….YOU FOOLS…..
Sigh…good times….good times…
I’m a wheelman, learned high speed driving “on-the-job”. Way back I was running up M-24 north from Pontiac, MI going to Lake Orion/Oxford and was the only car on the divided highway at night, with no traffic. So I did a speed run in my 1967 Camaro SS 350CI slightly souped up, registering 135mph on the speedometer. I saw the cop car pull out from a dirt road behind me and throw on his flashers, but he had no chance to catch me, so I just kept going and got lost. Today I would be scared shitless of all the cop technology.
Back then you could test out cars on the back roads at night, and thereby acquire some pretty good driving skills handling cars at high speeds. I watch low skill drivers today who actually create hazards because of their poor skills. Put a little snow and ice under their wheels and they freak out. Spin it, baby! At 63, I’m obviously more conservative and law abiding, but I still have the eye, hand, and mental coordination and road feel that most drivers never got.
Cops back then were easier going, some would let you off with a warning, and most would just write a written down ticket, unless you happened to get the occasional psychopath. But today you would find yourself surrounded by 5 commandos with body armor, all psychopaths. Sad.
Much later I visited the Ford pilot plant in Dearborn, and one of their race car drivers from Australia scared the crap out of me, but he was always in control of the car. He told me that Dearborn cops just did not give speeding tickets to Ford cars with an “M” on the plate! Haha.
I love your driving articles, Eric. Keep em coming!
cops in Illinois do the same thing… but here ‘M’ means municipal government.
Mike, I used to get stopped now and then buy cops who were gearheads and just wanted a look. Several times in my life I’ve had to raise the hood so we could stand there and look at the chrome and other goodies. Mainly I liked chrome because it was easier to clean and didn’t catch dirt and grime as badly and you actually felt bad if you didn’t clean it. I always had crossed flags but never the number above so they’d ask what it was and you knew it was ok at that point. I bs’d my way out of some tickets, outright lied my way out on some, got let go just cause the guys knew it was hard not to romp on it, and then had it broken off by some of the anal sorts. If the cop didn’t show his hand while talking to you he would by staying at your car when you were ready to leave. Vrooom! ah ah ah ah Vrooom! I told more than one I might have a problem leaving and might spin my tires a bit since I had a really high speed rear gear(true) and about 2 ft. lbs of torque at idle. I’ve peeled out with them right there and they just stand and watch you go. Every now and then a guy would admit to having a hot car, always a good thing since I never had one admit it that gave me a ticket. They knew how it was. For the hard asses, I’d get busy doing something till they were gone so I could take off and no ride the clutch. Fun times the 60’s eh?
I ride nothing but ultra-powerful sportbikes. If have running room I just twist the throttle and go and get off the road at the first opportunity. If I’m hopelessly trapped I pull over and simply admit that I was speeding wildly. The latter approach always gets me a no-points ticket for some minor infraction. Of course, being an old fart helps – the cops always shake their heads when I pull off my helmet and my elderly appearance is revealed. The US Army Special Forces shoulder patch decal on the rear of the pillion always helps as well. And yes, I really am an old SF guy.
Of course this never REALLY happened, but a story that I like to tell was back when I had a Gen III Taurus SHO that I was taking down the interstate, and having some fun with. I did slow down to the posted speed limit once I got inside city limits, which is when a gaggle of State Patrol cruisers surrounded my vehicle. Boxed me in. Believe me, I was nervous. The officer that approached my car said “I want you to know, that we didn’t actually clock you, so we can’t give you a ticket. But we got a report of a car that matched your description going over 100mph back there. If it was you, just tell us so we can stop looking.”
“No officer, it wasn’t me. I hope you find the guy though. Sounds like he could cause an accident!”
The officer was visibly disappointed. “Okay. Have a good day.”
Then I pushed my luck. “I mean, this is a Ford Taurus. I don’t think it could even REACH 100 mph!”
“Yeah, that’s true.” Said the officer with a smile.
He walked back to his cruiser. I waited for the lights to shut off, and I was back on my way.
Best story ever.
voice940 – One of my high school chums had a 76 Cobra (Mustang II) blue, with white stripes. One night he was out messing around when one of our local deputies came after him for “speeding.” Well, Mr. Mustang got away and went home, parked his car in the garage, went in the house stripped off his clothes and waited. Sure enough Deputy Slowpoke was beating on his door about 15 minutes later. My buddy came out in his boxers and tee-shirt looking like he just got out of bed. Deputy Slowpoke did the same thing you described, going on about his shift being over and that he’d have to go looking for that Mustang if it wasn’t my friend. Mr. Mustang just looked at him with bleary eyes and said “It wasn’t me.” I’m guessing that the Deputy Slowpoke spent the rest of the evening hunting a ghost.
Ha! Kick ass story, voice940.
Boothe’s reply comes in a close second.
I can just imagine the clover-moms reading this and having a conniption fit As if they didn’t love doing the same when they were young,… or being jealous of the thrill.
While growing up I can’t imagine a third category. … Nuns? …Maybe?
The film, ‘American Graffiti’ really was a documentary.
Somehow since then, American youth became a target. … Or more precisely, a point of Fascists profit. As have we all.
There are some youtubes of guys evading cops. Some guy in Sweden apparently does it for fun. It’s either sport bikes that can go 150+ mph, or dual-sports where the rider just goes off into the weeds (bring a wire cutter to get through fences, heh). I enjoy watching these videos.
I remember one time I was riding my bike, an old Norton 750, when I noticed someone following me as I approached my home. I simply went around the block once, using the accelleration to leave the guy in the dust, then pulled into my place and shut the door. Never had a problem with the guy, whoever he was.
I think we don’t realize how much an advantage bikes have over the usual Crown Vic. But yeah, don’t get caught.
As to guarding what we say about these things, fuck that! I’ll say what I please. If a pig wants to arrest me for it, he’d better get his will in order. I’m old enough not to give a damn any more, and too pissed to submit.
I am not sure if you took into account UAVs.
Otherwise good article as usual.
Years ago I was heading from Boulder to Steamboat Springs. I was in my 2002tii, had a hitch-hiker with me, and passed a State cop coming the other way on a two lane. I knew he was turning around. Speed limit was 55 and I was doing 70 or so. I hit speeds of 85-90 here and there, where I could, and keep pressing towards Steamboat. Twenty minutes later or so, before getting into Steamboat, there is this long stretch. I pulled over near the end and waited. Near ten minutes later, here he comes, lights-a-flashing. There really wasn’t anywhere to have gone anyway. He had two buddies at the bottom of the hill, waiting, for me.
He gave me a ticket for 64 in a 55, and said he’d hit speeds of 80. He was in an interceptor, not very good for the mountains anyway. We then talked cars for a good half hour. He said he’d not had so much fun in a long time. I told him I’d be returning to Boulder in two days.
Hard to outrun police radio Pete, which is why it’s best to disappear asap, although often it’s not possible.
Many times I’ve been pulled over by the cops as they come the other way and then spin around to tail me. Often they don’t even have a radar reading they can show me but they proudly chuff they had to do 180k’s to catch me. Even back in 1986 when I was riding a Honda 250 road-trail bike in the suburbs! Geez, did I unload on that pig for a good 5 minutes, yelling at him how dare he do 180 in an urban 60 zone. Arsehole. The judge wasn’t impressed with him and I got off, considering car mounted speed radar wasn’t available for some years yet.
When it gets to court (if some of my other legal tactics don’t make them back off), I ask the prosecutor if the officer made a voice/video recording. Most often they have and try to use it if they haven’t lied in their affidavits. Sometimes their recordings magically go missing. Sometimes they haven’t properly reviewed their recordings before making their case. Embarrassing.
That’s when my voice recording comes out and they shit themselves. The prosecution often tries to say the recording can’t be used because it’s unlawful as no permission to record was given by the orificer. But a public servant in a public place has no privacy, including us, which they record with impunity without telling us. Again, embarrassing. The law applies to everyone equally and all judges so far have agreed.
I then make the point to the judge that a police car travelling at breakneck speed and in contravention with all traffic laws and rules, including current “hoon” legislation has no place in road safety when trying to run down yet another innocent, non-speeding, non-drunk traveller.
Again, the judge agrees.
Case in point, until they are behind me, I do not slow down, until they are on my bumper I have know idea that they are indeed going after me. Slowing down just means they are more likely to catch you. If they catch up to you, they already know you were speeding and if for example you were doing 80, dropping to the posted speed limit so they can catch up to you isn’t going to let them write you a ticket for 70, you’re still getting the 80mph ticket.
Even if the police have ALPR’s the ALPR’s is not connected to a RADAR/LAZR speed device. All they have is that your car passed by a ALPR enabled police car. This has happened to me earlier this year in NJ, heading home to NY from PA cutting through NJ on I80.
Hidden police car in median – I actually for once wasn’t able to spot him. Must have been a new hiding spot, as when I saw roof lights go on, but the police cars wheels spun in the ground (luck on my side as it had rained earlier that day) and I kept going. Never saw that officer again, but did get pulled over later by a NJ Trooper later in the trip closer to NY.
After the Trooper told me that I was caught because of the ALPR system…I managed to successfully argue that 1. I had no idea that I was being (or about to be pursued by another NJ Trooper) and 2. What proof did he have that I was speeding, fine his ALPR system could only prove that I in fact drove by another NJ Trooper ALPR car earlier.
For once NY/NJ traffic worked in my favor that put the distance/time equation close to posted speed limits, that there was nothing he could do but give me the evil eye and an extra 15 minute trip delay.
One of the few times that traffic works in your favor. Nice tale.
All this reminds me of the closing of the American West and the “invasion” of Progressives looking for a problem in search of a solution (like “civilizing” the “redskins” and so on). It used to be that the roads were at least relatively free, until st00pid sheeple were scared into accepting ever more authority over their lives in the name of fighting the “drug war,” the “terror war,” and so on.
I remember back when pulling up next to someone at a red light in my Mustang was guaranteeing a quick pick-up race. These days, with a cop behind every bush, cameras everywhere, all the hot cars just roll meekly away from the line. Maybe not all the time, but a lot of the time. Soon, we’ll have driver-assisting cars, and driverless cars, doing nothing but shuttling us around from one sterile, boring, plastic environment to another.
Just N of Abilene on I-20 I’m doing about 95 or so when I see an ex-DPS car with two off duty cops in it giving it hell on this long entrance ramp to catch me. I didn’t change speed so they finally caught up with me, got in the left land, the passenger pointed to his Abilene PO leec patch and motioned me over. Ok, I’ll bite. Both of them get out and come up to my El Camino. The driver wants my DL so I hand it to him and he walks back to his private car that BTW, has no antenna and they have no radio of any sort. I walk back there too and stare at him while he’s standing inside the door as if he’s doing a license check. It’s such a ludicrous deal that I tell him he’s had time to get my name and give it back. He hands it back with a shitty looks while his buddy stands there looking even more stupid. I got back to the car, and floor it leaving them handily. I saw the exhaust pouring out and know they’re giving pursuit. Fat chance catching my Eddie Browder powered Elco. I just didn’t care back then, think they knew it. I was only carrying my Hi Power, Uzi and AR, dumbasses. Back then it was legal to shoot a cop if you felt like your life was in danger. They were sure a lot nicer then.
I like my CB.
Here is how to beat a photo ticket, at least in Arizona. Check your local laws first. A little back ground: In Arizona, they serve you by mail, and if you don’t respond, they hire a process server to hunt you down and serve you at home. But the process server has to hand the ticket to a live human being at your house. Also, they have 90 days to give you the ticket, or the limitation on service expires, and the ticket can no longer be served.
Now, a little preparation: go down the DMV and get your driver license photo changed. Do your hair different, shave the mustache, don’t wear your glasses, etc. You want to look very different in your driver license photo than you do in person. I’m lucky because my years of cab driving have greyed my hair, and added a bit of weight.
Now, when your lead foot earns you a ticket, wait for process service. If you live alone, you’re golden. Simply don’t answer the door to strangers for the next 90 days. If you don’t live alone, or if you forget, and get served anyway, you’re still good.
The ticket they serve will have a date on it a mail response must be post-marked by. Wait until the very last minute to mail the thing off. Then, fill out the back, include the photo of the drivers license which does not look like you at all, and the “information” about who was really driving the car. I recommend a cousin who lives out of state. Or your imaginary friend from when you were four. By the time the bureaucrats get your ticket back in the mail, signed, sealed, and delivered, the ninety days is up and the ticket will be dismissed.
Oh, by the way, never EVER post photos of yourself online. The people who process those tickets have been known to look up Facebook pages for your image.
The good news is that Arizona did away with speed cameras on its highways three years ago. HOWEVER, they’re still operating in most of the cities. Here in Tucson, they have them set up in some really bizarre (but obvious and obtrusive) spots on major suburban roads. Most people are aware of where they are (in a couple of places you can literally spot the camera poles from a mile away), so I can’t believe they’re generating very much revenue.
My wife got a speeding ticket three years ago from a camera near the I-17 off-ramp from I-10 westbound. She must have been one of the last ones to be so “honored,” because the camera from which she was “nailed” came down a month later, along with all the others on 10, the next time she drove that stretch of 10. If only she had waited a month!
I love your posts, PaulTheCabDriver!
Me too. First time I read it I thought, Yep, how many times I’ve said that about a woman.
I knew the minute after I hit ‘Post Comment’ I should have written, “not love, love. Just love.” Or something like that.
His posts are always kick ass.
As are most who post here.
We have quite a posse here!
Compare the quality of the posts to those on, say, The Blaze or HuffPost (I have a story to tell about that twat, by the way).
One afternoon, I was out on the 101 in Phoenix in my cab, doing substantially more than the speed limit when this DPS officer (sic for DiPShit) slid in behind me. I knew my goose was cooked. So before he turned on his Christmas lights, i sped up just a wee bit, turned on my signals, let them flash exactly twice so it was a legal lane change, then jumped into the right lane and jammed on the brakes. The cop who had been tailgating me was suddenly in front of me. I quickly took the next exit and disappeared into Scottsdale.
Paul, you must have timed that drive for exactly the right time of day. I’ve NEVER been able to do anything close to the posted speed limit on the 101 (but then again, I’m usually in the Phoenix area during weekday business hours when rush hour traffic is the norm), so I would definitely be taking advantage of any window of opportunity to “push the envelope” on that stretch of highway when given the chance.
EXCELLENT tactic, by the way. Given the 4-watt bulbs that are Phoenix-area cops (of course they’re Mensa candidates when compared with the Tucson-area cops who are 2-watt bulbs ), your maneuver probably had Porky scratching his head in amazement for a month!
I frequenty ponder what my maternal grandfather, who was a Baltimore city motorcycle cop in the 50’s & 60’s, may God rest his soul, would think of the Stasi surveillance state under which we suffer.
I also am curious if the new number plate scanning devices still work on those who have scratched the reflective background off their number plates and/or sprayed them with anti-detection “Bat-Spray” materials I’ve seen touted. Since I can’t afford the fines, it seems to me easier to just limit my overage to 10 mph (keeping up with traffic flow), not try to squeeze 25 hours into a 24 hour day & practice the 6P’s (proper planning prevents piss poor performance), and thereby deprive the state of its sustenance. Just my 1 cent.
They’ll still work even with the sprays and if you remove the coating, just not as effectively. The cameras work in both visible and infrared spectrums.
Many parts of the US have made it illegal to have a plastic cover on your license plate. This is ostensively for “safety” reasons, but it’s really for the revenue from the number-plate cameras and toll booth cameras.
My dual sport always seems to have some mud splashed over the plate…
In my younger days, I would practice driving certain roads or stretches of roads at night with no lights on. I would (and still do) learn the back ways, turn offs, and side streets. I would practice speeding up and turning quickly, etc. Why? Because I had a bench warrant out on me for failing to appear on a turning right on a yellow light ticket. I was young, broke, and wasn’t going to miss work to listen to the cop lie and say it was red and the judge discount the testimony of a long haired college student.
I gave police officers the slip this way more than once. However, I have learned better ways to not get their attention or to get off with a warning when I do. 1) I know where the cops are 2) I took my DL picture in my Marine Corps uniform 3) I’m polite without admitting fault, and 4) I use just enough legalese to let the cop know I’ll be a pain in the ass in court.
Not as much fun as turning off my lights and whipping through turns at 45 miles an hour and hiding out until they pass, but the end result is the same.
NOTE: Felony Eluding (eluding recklessly either by speed or driving behavior, real or imagined) will also result in you being hassled by police constantly. If you’re already a felon or will be one by what they would find in your car, than you have a decision to make. Calculated risks are still risks, so if you lead a lifestyle where eluding is worth the risk, than you should possess the necessary skills to pull it off.
Run in an older car:
The few times I might have done this, and I’m not saying I did…I might have stopped in at a restaurant and had a nice meal…or if not hungry had some coffee and read the paper for a good hour or more to pass the time until the hornet’s nest died down.
I seem to recall in a dream, watching cruisers drive up and down the blvd one particular time while my bike was parked in the rear of a parking lot of a Waffle House I was eating in.
Imagine, in the scenario you describe, where you’re sitting in a diner somewhere “laying low” after having given the porcine Praetorians the slip. You’re sitting by yourself at the counter, face buried in newspaper, sipping a cup of joe, when porky and his toady come bursting in the door.
“Flo, you ain’t gonna believe it!” Porky huffs at the waitress behind the counter. “I just damned near got run off the highway by one of them damned Mazda Miatas! I had no idea them dang things could drive so fast! Somebitch out-ran me, though!”
You feel a momentary twinge of panic, but them remember that you’ve parked your black Miata around on the back side of the diner, near the kitchen dumpster. Porky, unless he plans on going hunting for snacks, very likely won’t ever see it or know it’s there. So you decide to take a gamble.
“Excuse me, officer, but did you say a Mazda Miata? Did it happen to be a black one, circa 2005 model?”
“Why, yes sir, it sure was.”
“Well, that must have been the same maniac who almost ran me off the road and into a jersey barricade right before the Exit 207 off-ramp. Last I saw him, he pulled off the highway at Exit 207 and was doing at least 75. I mean, this guy was driving like a rabid bat out of hell! I had to pull off onto the shoulder just to get my wits back about me because he almost gave me a heart attack. But what really made my jaw drop was when I saw him make a sharp life turn onto the overpass at the end of the ramp, not even stopping, damn near t-boning oncoming traffic, burning rubber, and nearly flipping himself over. He was headed down Route 204 at the same speed as he was on the highway. I mean, he must have left skid marks a mile long. You could probably trace him from those alone.”
“Why, thank you, sir! We’ll head out that way right now. Hopefully we’ll get’im before he kills somebody!”
And off on a wild goose chase Porky goes, Flo the waitress staring at you in amazement as she offers you a free slice of pecan pie for your heroic and narrow escape from what would have been sure death.
Of course that’s pure fantasy fiction, but it would sure be fun to pull off.
Nick, a few years back, a fellow I know pretty well was sitting at a light in Petersburg, Virginia on his little Yamaha 350 2-smoker when a dood on a Sportster pulled along side. Mr. Harley dood looked over, made some wise-ass comment about rice burners and said “Last one to Sandy’s (a watering hole near Ft. Lee) buys the beer!” So Mr. 2-Smoker says “Yer on!” and when the light changed he nailed it down Wythe St. with a vengeance. He was lane splitting and carving through the cagers left and right. By the time he got down to Sandy’s, the Sporty was no where to be seen, so he went in and sat down. Five minutes went by, then ten and finally he told the waitress to bring him a Miller draft, figuring Mr. Harley dood stiffed him on the bet. About that time the distinctive rumble of the hawg could be heard out front. Mr. Harley dood walked in, sat down and said “Man, did you see that Petersburg cop that came after you? He was pissed. I backed out of it.” Mr. 2-Smoker asked “What cop?” Now that’s the way it’s done in ol’ Virginny. 😉
Boothe, that’s a cool and uplifting story. And funny too. TYVM for that. It almost beats the story I heard about the guys who beat the cops up and… Oh, I can’t tell anymore than that. Sorry.
Lets just say, the story never made the local newspaper. AhHAHAHA!
Shame and embarrassment are more powerful than some people know.
Fuck, The Moon Is Down. … I wonder why the NSa guys don’t get that too?
Two friends sitting at a light on Fm 2222 in Austin, one in a slightly modified ’76 TA and the other in a highly modified 78 model Z-28, light turns green and they’re off to the house about 20 miles to the west. The friend in the Camaro is in a hurry and needs to get home really quickly due to reasons I won’t get into. He hauls ass home and is at the house when the guy in the TA gets there. Guy in TA says Hey, man I thought that DPS was gonna kill himself chasing you. Guy in the Z says Huh? What DPS? A couple months later he has a need for speed and uses his wife’s ‘Vette, goes to the pharmacy, gets his stuff and hauls ass back. DPS is miffed, looking for him everywhere. He only finds out when he’s told by a friend who witnessed it. Fuckin’ DPS, always a dollar short and a day late.
He didn’t live near Hippie Hollow, did he?
BTW, trying to do over 60 on 2222 on the hills will likely be fatal.
He actually lived on another road that ran into 2222 and I can’t remember the number. I’ve tried to straighten that road out before and it doesn’t give much. Had lots of good times at HH though. I remember when the dicks put up those guard shacks on the road. Now that was uncalled for. Great thing about HH though was the shacks would mostly be manned on or near week-ends, the very time the regulars avoided. We’d go Tues. Wed. stay at the house in near Cedar Park on week-ends. Lived on the road opposite of the FM that intersected into 83 from the west downtown CP, as if there is a downtown. You could find us at the Buckboard most days, swilling nearly frozen Schlitz tap beer and shooting pool. Life was good. We had one of the first Pong tables ever built, used to have tournaments at the house with it. Damn, wish I could remove 40 years. We had muy fun back then. Used to wave at the crews on the big helos looking for pot but always got caught up on the girls in the backyard sans clothes. We’d just hold up a beer and wave, got to where they’d wave back, fun, lots of fun.
A fellow with a conscience:
If you’re riding a bike alongside another (or in a pack?) make sure you work out some kind of communication signal of some type ahead of time to indicate you’re not stopping.
Otherwise, while you might go, the other person stops and rats you out.
I imagine most people don’t want to find out the hard way that their “friend” is an *instant obeyer.
I think, unless that’s been decided well beforehand, it’s a good idea to think they will stop and so should you. YMMV.
*Instant obeyer = just add cop.
Years ago, three friends (and fellow airmen) were riding together through Ft. Walton Beach, Florida leaving their favorite watering hole one night. They cruised past two local yokels in the Wally-World parking lot swapping gossip in their cop cars. Of course these motorcyclists were running double the limit (70 in a 35), so the pork brothers lit ’em up and the chase was on. But even though these three fellows had no prior arrangement, they just instinctively split off three ways and that ensured that one of them was home free. The oinkers followed one rider down a fairly twisty side road and was shaken off in a couple of turns. The second rider went straight with no pigs in pursuit. The third rider turned into a subdivision with only one way in or out. Pork boy number two, apparently realizing No. 3’s plight, pursued…around and around and around. Finally No. 3 turned right through a hedge, laid his XS850 Yamaha down in some unsuspecting citizen’s yard and killed the bike along with the headlight. By then pork boy had called for back up and he and the other tax feeder rode all through the area shining their spot lights to no avail. No. 3 said he just laid there until they got tired of looking and left, probably figuring that he’d given them the slip and was back on the main road. When he came riding in a while later he had a broken clutch lever, a bent shifter along with a good deal of mud and grass on his bike. He said when he stood the bike up it was flooded and wouldn’t start. Finally the battery petered out about the time the yard lit up like Fort Knox. He said the elderly lady that lived there had flood lights on every corner of the house. When she saw him out in her yard with his bike on the jack stand trying to kick start it, she came after him with a broom. He said she was chewing his butt for tearing up her hedge and her yard, the whole time swatting him with the broom. Finally, as she was hitting him and he was kicking for all he was worth, the bike fired off. He said he just rolled it off the jack stand, hit the gas and spun right back around and out through the hedge again. Let’s just say all the non-cop “interested parties” had a good laugh over the whole affair.
Thanks dom. I have it on good authority (ahem) that it really happened. I also have it on good authority that No. 2 and No. 3 burned a doobie after the fact as No. 3 related what had just happened to him. A quick phone call from No. 1 confirmed that he’d made it home on his brand new CB900F without a hitch. No. 2 was riding a 1975 Yamaha RD350, BTW. Ahhhh, I sure do miss the late 70’s early 80’s and the smell of that Bel-Ray burning mixed with the gas (sigh). The Fourth Reich sucks.
But on a happier note, a good friend recently informed me that he set his 2006 KTM 950 Super Moto down from a wheelie the other day and the speedo was reading 84 as he came up on an overpass. He glanced across the median in time to see Deputy Dumbass whip off onto the exit and he was sure the chase was on. He said he just nailed it and hit 132 before he took the next county road. Then he doubled back across a dirt road and came into his yard from the back side of his house. He left the bike out back until dark, then put it in his garage and didn’t ride for a few days. No harm, no foul, no revenue for the tax feeders. Yay! This one’s for you clover and no, that finger doesn’t mean you’re number one. 😉
Boothe…here’s a proper clover salute all digitized and read to copy/paste whenever needed. I’ve gotten some good mileage out of this one in the past.
Turd – you da’ man!
a “reckless driving” cite for nothing more than traveling over 80 MPH, or more than 20 MPH faster than any speed limit –
One of the “bennies” (if you can call them that) of the mommy/nanny technology that is the double-edged sword (and often the bane) of our daily existence is that certain GPS navigation devices (TomTom, in particular) are configurable with a warning alarm that sounds when you exceed the posted speed limit on a given stretch of road by more than 10 MPH. Combined with the use of a radar detector, it can be a very effective tool for “strategic speeding” (i.e., doing 10-20 over the posted limit with reasonable certainty that there are no swine on the prowl on a given stretch of road), even despite the annoying alarms.
Escort has already combined them:
Finally a radar detector that looks like a GPS. Well because it’s a GPS and that’s even better.
Many years ago I had the idea that radar detector needed to look like some other dash/windshield device. Something that wouldn’t get attention even if pulled over. Now I’d get a decal to cover the ‘passport’ logo with something else but that’s easy.
I can’t think of a time I have been stopped I didn’t stash my detector somewhere and even in a very cool inside a Passport is extremely hot in west Tx. Hot enough to have you not wanting to touch it at all. I always wondered how they took so much heat. I always wanted a built in model but they “required” professional installation and at a $1,000 a pop I was willing to keep hiding my dash unit. I never wanted a cop to think I was simply rubbing his nose in it since they’d often stop me simply based on their perception and not have any “proof” i. e. VASCAR. For those who might get a ticket in Tx. know that speed limits here are only “suggestions” and as such are not written in stone as many laws are. It’s generally a good idea to contact an attorney who specializes in this and give your money to him instead of the system where it will go on your permanent driving record. The first thing they look at is if you have priors and not having a prior is the very first way to NOT get ticketed.
Reminds me of the story of the interstate trucker, had his radar detector mounted inside a large Teddy Bear sitting on the dash of his Freightliner COE. Was speeding along in some midwest state that forbids their use…. dropped his speed in time… except that the copper at the side the road noted his speed drop at an opportune time, but not in time to get a printout of his speed before the drop. Pulled him over, asked for his radar detector. “What radar detecter?” Cop began to search…. he probably should have denied permission, but didn’t. After a while the cop noticed the small power cord disappearing inside the bum of the Bear….. felt around on it, and discovered tne detector. Handed the poor sap a hammer, and ordered him to destroy it. Sad….. no ticket, though.
Every so often, the local fuzz erects one of those portable, unmanned radar stations that flashes like the robot from Lost in Space if you’re “speeding.”
I heard a story about this guy (as per Hot Rod’s comment above) who reacts like a bull to a matador with a red cape when he sees one of these things. Almost tilted it when the readout displayed 167 MPH in a 55….
Whats the point of those? I burn rubber on them as well. I’ve never heard of people getting tickets from them, in the Houston Metro-plex anyways.
There’s an app you can download for your iphone called “Waze”. It’s a traffic app that is very useful especially on highways, as it links other phones (and yours) with satellites and cell towers, and it can determine how fast traffic is moving based on the phones in other people’s cars. You see a map of the road you’re travelling on and also the surrounding roads. So, if miles up the road there’s slow or stopped traffic, you will know and can plan an alternate route around it.
In addition, other “Wazers” can report on accidents, construction, hazards, stopped vehicles, weather…….and where cops are lurking. You also see where other Wazers are, as long as they agree to have their own location show up on your screen. You will also see the locations of gas stations and restaurants occasionally. All these things will appear as icons on your screen. Of course, it is up to other “Wazers” to report on most things, so it isn’t going to be perfect. But I’ve had great success with with knowing where cops are, miles up the road. If you get up to that point, and there’s no cop, you can report that he’s not there…….but then someone else might see him having someone pulled over and report on the cop’s new location.
Now, all that being said, Waze only works if you’ve got your wireless and GPS settings on your iphone turned ON, so you can be tracked much easier…..though of course, any phone’s location can be tracked as long as the battery is still installed (and then, some models have a smaller “secret battery” usually installed directly under the main battery which needs to be removed also). And your speed is being measured, not by just the “black box” in the car, but by the whole phone/satellite system (not to mention OnStar, SYNCH or any of the in-car communication systems). So if you’re going 85, the overall “system” will know it. But so far, I haven’t heard of any cases where cops were looking for “speeders” via the Waze app.
So technically, if you were to be specifically targeted by “the law”, they have many ways of being able to track you and see if you are “speeding” without having to have a cop anywhere near your location…….which is the Clovers’ ultimate wet dream…….
I only use Waze on long road trips, as the whole tracking thing does bother me to some extent. I don’t fall into that “If you’ve got nothing to hide, then you’ve got nothing to worry about” category. But I’ll tell you what…….by using Waze, I’ve been able to avoid some pretty long traffic jams on the highway.
There’s another app called “Beat the Traffic”, but it doesn’t work nearly as well as Waze.
Check out the phantomalert app – specifically designed to expose rotting pig meat.
Cloverism = Disease – the Cops probably haven’t been using Waze to track / monitor vehicle speeds…that is until you posted this helpful tip. ; ) Just jackin’ with ya. As soon as Waze grows to certain level of popularity, you can bet they’ll tap into it, deny it and then lie about how they gathered the “evidence” against you. You do bring up an interesting point about a “backup” or “secret” battery in some phones. I wasn’t aware of this, but it doesn’t surprise me. I’m sure it would be explained away by the manufacturers / distributors as “just there to maintain the phone’s memory”, but it would probably have enough power to give off a periodic “ping” to any nearby towers. One thing I’ve found is that when I put my phone in a metal ammo can to protect it from water when fishing I miss calls; but they don’t show up as missed calls. I’m pretty sure that ammo can shields all RF coming and going (but I’ve never verified it with test equipment, so YMMV). I’ve even noticed that I can seriously attenuate the sail fawn signal by going into some all metal buildings. I’m willing to bet you could make a very effective portable phone blocking box by pulling the rubber seal out of a standard ammo can and replace it with rolled up metal screen. You could probably accomplish the same results with an old fashioned metal band aid box or even an Altoids container if your phone is small enough to fit. Backup battery or not, if the system can’t see/ping the phone, the PTB can’t track you.
Boothe, I’ve been in metal buildings that had the door shut and my phone will show “no service”. Many companies cell phone boosters(BDA) in this part of the country to boost cell phone signals so they can use them inside metal buildings and I’d bet it’s fairly common everywhere. I have a fairly foolproof way of not being tracked, remove my battery(no backup battery) plus I use an anonymous cell phone service(trak phone). I only break radio silence if it’s very important.
I used to think that stuff like toll road transponders and such would be used to issue speeding tickets. I have since realized that the system can’t have too many people obeying. If too many people obey the speed limits the road system will screach to a halt. It won’t be able to function because traffic won’t clear at the rate it needs to. Also if the enforcement becomes too good then the revenue will drop.
In other words it has to be balanced. To maximize revenue. To maximize power. At the same time not to interfere with business or cause people to revolt.
Thus the game will continue. Enforcement will remain more or less selective.
Look at automated enforcement. It even gets the clovers in an uproar now. It tickets the 10 over clover. It tickets the rolling right on red clover. Their sloppy driving no live cop would bother them about gets them tickets and suddenly the law is the law falls aside to those laws are for the bad people and how dare the government take the live cop who knows who’s bad and who’s good out of it. That’s why automated enforcement has never won a vote. The clovers don’t mind the game where cops go after ‘different’ people. But the cameras are blind to social constructs and they hate that.
If the government goes over the top of the hill and this mechanized sort of automatic fines kick in it might be a good thing in the long haul. To keep the punishments the speed limits would need to be set properly or things will have to go back the way they are now. In either case government learns its limits and in one things mostly get fixed.
As for the plate readers, I just moved out of a small town (12 sq miles) with 10 cops and they’ve had plate hunter on one of their cars for years. The neighboring jurisdictions have multiple units with similar systems and there is talk of setting them up as fixed (pole mount) units near transportation hubs in the area, mainly trains and ferries.
This works. Trust me. 🙂
Back in the early 80’s of the 55 mph days when I was going to college, I used to have to travel this one highway in Mississippi that went between Hattiesburg & Jackson. This particular highway was 4 lane and had wooded median areas between the northbound and southbound lanes. About every couple of miles or so there would be a turnaround and of course this was the favorite place for the cops to try to hide and set up radar traps. On more than one occasion, I blew past a cop doing about 80-85 and what I would do under these circumstances is put the pedal all the way down and then at the next turn around intersection I would take that left and then start hauling ass south again for a couple of miles, then turn around and start heading back north again. I figured the cops were always going to be looking ahead for me instead of behind them. Worked every time…although there was one time when I was already headed back north I saw the cop again and he had a car that looked exactly like mine pulled over and was giving that person the ticket meant for me. Felt bad for those people, but not much I could do.
Another thing we’d do in our “running” days is have a pair of binoculars in the car and my riding partner would keep focused ahead on the road looking out for those “road hazards” and let me know when to slow down and we’d also air out the car too…just in case.
Turd, dammit, that’s just what we used to do with Binocs. We always had a couple pair of big, rubberized binocs you could lay on the dash and still see through them. It worked really well for those times you just wanted or really needed to make some serious time. We found out in the sixties not to “look” the part so we didn’t. The El Camino could sorta slide under the radar so to speak although it had big SS stripes but the Camaro with the under the fender headers connected to 3″ collectors that dumped right in front of the rear tire wasn’t too stealthy. Those didn’t last long though. The 98’s would run with anything else though although the whoa factor wasn’t as good. Guy with binocs “Black and white, about 5 miles away.” I must admit I had six wonderful years courtesy Escort radar detector before Instant On’ became radar du jour.
“Felt bad for those people, but not much I could do.”
There was absolutely one thing that you could have done, to right the Wrong. If only your moral compass wasn’t offline that day…
And what is that?
There was absolutely one thing that you could have done, to right the Wrong. If only your moral compass wasn’t offline that day…
Wow, not just a “wrong”, but a “Wrong”! Apparently you mean that TB should have stopped and confessed to the cop. I disagree. It’s the COP, and the bullshit laws he’s enforcing, that are the moral “Wrong”. Nobody is responsible for putting his neck on the chopping block for violating a bullshit law. Hopefully the person receiving the bogus ticket will become aware of how cops perpetrate injustice, and will become a regular reader on this site.
Exactly…I don’t know 100% for sure that the car that looked similar to mine wasn’t pulled over for something else. All I know for sure is I blew by a cop doing 75 in a 55, I did my standard U-turn a couple hundred yards up the road, went southbound for a couple of miles, then did another U-turn and proceeded north again. The cop may have decided that it wasn’t worth his time to ticket someone for less than 80, but low and behold here comes another car that just coincidentally happened to look like mine and maybe this guy was going 90 and that’s why he got pulled over and got a ticket. Completely plausible that this could have happened…I definitely wasn’t the only one speeding on that road that day.
But even if I had felt so much remorse for evading a potential ticket, should I have pulled in behind the cop and confessed? I don’t think so. You don’t think a cop is going to start getting nervous and develop itchy trigger finger when a non-cop pulls up behind them, gets out of their car, and starts walking towards them? People get shot and/or tazed for less than that. Maybe he would have pepper-sprayed me instead just to be safe and I could have stumbled into traffic and been flattened. The person who was pulled over could have been a dangerous criminal with warrants and here I come providing just enough distraction to allow him to get away and now I’m aiding and abetting.
Or perhaps I explain the story to the cop and because he refuses to admit any possibility of officer error in stopping that vehicle decided to give me a ticket as well…2 for the price of one…looks great on his quota.
So yes, I felt bad that someone else was getting a ticket…possibly even one that was meant for me, but then again I feel bad every time I see anyone pulled over getting a roadside shakedown. So I don’t think my moral compass was in any way offline as you so suggested. Instead I think common sense dictated how I should have handled the situation and that was to keep on going and mind my own business.
Besides I’d much rather be alive and have someone accuse me of having questionable morals than be dead for trying to right such a trivial injustice.
And if it’s any consolation for you, I have gotten speeding tickets when I know damn good and well I wasn’t speeding. And there’s also the time that I got the old Porky’s treatment when a cop was writing me a ticket for doing 95 in an old VW bug that was capable of 75 at best and when I started arguing about how the car couldn’t even do 80, he smashed my tail light with his night stick and wrote me a ticket for that too.
“doing 95 in an old VW bug that was capable of 75 at best and when I started arguing about how the car couldn’t even do 80, he smashed my tail light with his night stick and wrote me a ticket for that too.”
I thought that only happened in the movies? They always show it in some southern town, with a cop with a southern drawl. But smashing your tail light out with a night stick really happened to you? LMAO…I guess they got the movie material from real life considering most of Hollywood isn’t that genius to come up with funny material without inspiration from the real world.
One of my friends beat a ticket once because some lazy cop thought he “looked like” a speeder. He was pulled over within 30 seconds of entering the freeway and ticketed because the cop thought he was the same guy he had been chasing five miles back on the freeway.
He was moving a dresser at the time and had it strapped to the back of his pickup bed when he was pulled over. Not a likely candidate for a speeder in the judge’s eyes.
That must have been US 49. I took it southbound in 2006; didn’t get to see much because it was at night. However, I can assure you most of it is too developed now to do 80.
The Viper and semi-truck comment needs a “Knight Rider” photo:
Then there’s the “rocking chair in the convoy” tactic a la Smokey and the Bandit.
Totally off topic here but, I have sooo always wanted to try that… drive my truck at highway speed onto a ramp and into a trailer. Would the transmission totally lose it when the front wheels hit the ramp, roll at 5 mph with full traction while the rear wheels run at highway speed? Would the transmission computer know to disengage the transfer case? Or would the front and back wheels both start scraping the ground when the computer failed to tell the transfer case to disengage?
They tested this on an episode of Mythbusters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYlstdCWzCY
Dan, I’m an expert on that since I saw it on tv ha ha. Actually, a few years ago we watched some of those episodes of Bull Run I think the name was. Every car had to do that in competition. They all did it pretty well, most with computerized vehicles.
Dan, I guess they weren’t really going very fast on that show, don’t know why you’d want to use 4WD or All wheel drive. I don’t see it being a big deal even with traction control since your power tires(rear) would still have traction and would want to power it down when you hit the ramp, the same thing you’d do without a computer.
I recall watching some urban pursuits covered by TV news whirlybirds, where fleeing motorcyclists would drive into multistory parking structures serving large shopping malls. It provided up to a minute or more to evade observation as well as pursuit. As I recall, in several such instances, the pursued party went un- apprehended.
All it takes is police cruiser at every entrance and exit. Then again cops aren’t that bright.
Of course if they didn’t get the plate the guy could just park the bike and walk into the mall.
That’s where the fun starts Brent, when a gaggle of pigs is surrounding your parked bike after a chase, but all they’ve got is the fact it has 2 wheels and a certain colour.
They’ll try to bullshit you and say they have proof it was you. Usually, when you press for that proof they evade the question or say they’ll make it available before court.
I had one of those cases myself years ago. A cop wanted to tail me for speeding. In heavy traffic where on my bike, I just zoomed in and out of cars. Within 1/2 a second I was essentially out of sight once the cop noticed me. Not a chance of getting my plate number or pulling me up.
About a week went by and late one night I had a few cops asking (pretty much interrogating and accusing) me about the incident. I didn’t let them see the bike as they had no warrant.
In their documents they were providing to the court, they said they had my plate number, which was impossible as I haven’t had a plate on that bike for years. They just got my name from VicRoads and found the original plate number. I told the judge I don’t use it because it’s unregistered and it no longer has a plate. I took a photo to confirm that. It was obvious to the judge what the cops had done and, even then they couldn’t produce photographic evidence of any kind of my bike with my plate on it. They just looked over the fence and found something black with 2 wheels.
I noticed that their investigation stated that other owners with black bikes were questioned about the same matter, but I was the only one charged. The kicker was that the prosecution said they were 100% sure it was me, but when confronted with their own “proofs” and their sheer lack of others the case was dropped.
They got a major slap on the wrist from the judge as I made it clear that they were only looking for SOMEONE to be liable to that “crime”, not the actual criminal.
Yep, but it takes time, effort (and intelligence) to set that up. Cops often lack several it not all these things.
Your best chances are in rural areas, where it’s not likely they’ll be more than one cop in any given radius of 5 miles or so.
A perfect story here for your “Maggots” section.
I think that happens a whole lot more than what people think it does. The police are usually more careful to choose a victim whom they can discredit if the victim reports the crime. Such as a person with a previous drug conviction.
Cops always prey upon those who won’t be socially defended by the masses.
In other words the ‘bad people over there’. When they treat someone from the good side of town like someone who lives in the ghetto it becomes a news media story about how unfair the police are and how they didn’t apply the law correctly and so forth and so on. It’s not the law-is-the-law to most americans unless its being applied to those bad people over there. Remember 10 over clover is safe and the cop shouldn’t bother him but that guy doing 12 over is a raging maniac and needs to severely punished.
Hate to be naive but why do do people call the police pigs (smile)?
Also, you all be careful what we say in these rooms, know that indeed all this is being recorded. Though I doubt that anyone can be prosecuted for 10 year or more misdemeanors, we can be held for inciting others to break the law. For that reason it may be wise to to talk only second and third person and never use the word “I”. Also sympathizing with another person is fine but promoting someone breaking the law is playing dangerous on here. Also be wary of people who talk the most about breaking the law as there are government instigators that are most likely participating on these commentaries, to get you all to open up.
Overall the article was very interesting, though practically I see that the world has gotten smaller and more observed than the 60’s. I remember when we won the so called “cold war”. It seems the Stazi state was erecting towers of observation to everyone and everywhere and for no reason. I talked to co-workers who returned blank stares and even defended the Orwellian spy state back then, about what seemed obvious to me that we won the Cold war to become like what we hated. This was pre-911 BTW. The elite had the spy state in mind even before 911.
Its actually quite surprising to me that technically law unabiding savvy people not make plasma, LCD type displays for the license plates that can change numbers dynamically with a picture update button. Though doing that would be a felony, and me myself I would not do that, just thinking aloud that other people probably have. I imagine that some notorius law breakers already have done this but I imagine that they don’t brag their handiwork for the same reasons I gave in the second paragraph.
I hate to say it but I don’t have the energy or literally the drive anymore to even think of trying to evade like Dukes of Hazard, though my cousins were good at it in the 60’s. And I smile when I hear stories about them the rebels they were. Me, I like the peaceful nad productive life. I’m willing to move to any continent to keep it. I’m even willing to fight for it here under the right circumstances, but given the over burden of laws in this country and the enforcers who also are generally well regarded by the majorities I don’t think its feasible to openly challenge small everyday enforcement. Nothing makes me madder than seat belt laws, where I personally got ticketed even though I had been wearing one. Believe these laws and enforcement are made to fatten the enforcers personal wallet and I mean personal wallet and not the municipal wallet (does that too). Of all the sociopaths that love the power of life and death they all find a place where they can excercise it unencumbered.
Very few cops these days are the good guys or the civil peace officer, the latter of which I have no problem with . You end up in front of a jury or judge for 10mph over the speed limit and I guarantee you will most likely lose, so my advice is to avoid court unless you like to employ lawyers. I’m the kind of guy that likes to always win so as Eric says one has to pick their battles to win a war. And there are much worse draconian laws in this country than highway misdemeanors, that we as God loving should focus on destroying first. Though I’m not against overwhelming the beast either, I just don’t see us with a majority of rebels anytime soon to acheive that. So fighting the beast is going to require cautiously picking battles where its obvious morality lies on our sides even to the most blind government worshippper.
I’d wear my seatbelt anyway without the cops but protesting it to get a ticket and having a jury or judge agree that I had to wear it is almost a given. God be with anyone that tries to evade technology and police these days and doesn’t get away with it, you’re going to lose a lot of time, money and soul. Try to avoid the prison corporation, once they get you in there you are a marked man the rest of your life. The end result if you are a young man and need employment is that you’ll most likely be taught other jobs to fill your government created void of time, then you are really screwed. Look to Ron Paul as an answer to how to effectively challenge unjust laws, he himself keeps a clean ledger but openly discusses sympathy for others (never first person) who don’t abide by draconian laws. They haven’t locked Ron Paul up even though he has courageously changed the world in a massive way.
I’ve already told you guys that one of my packages disappeared by Homeland Security, so I do believe this room is chock full of instigators and informants and passive listeners. Could be everything from local law enforcement to national, so again please be wise what you say and how you say it.
You’re all very brave people and I actually don’t want to chill your example of freedom of speech, but I also want us all to make it through the first wave of re-education camps that is most likely coming to America sometime soon in our future. We know all too well that all information about us is being collected online, and that information isn’t going to go to waste either.
Yup, Hot Rod. I’ve been trying real hard to quit making comments for just those very reasons.
Maybe today is The day.
Hot Rod, you make a good point. The DOJ has already tried to ram through a bill making it a felony to falsify anything on the internet, now that’s Draconian. It was defeated once but It’s Back. They’ll never quit trying in this Orwellian nightmare called the USSA. If you say you are 6′ tall and say you’re 6’2″ or 5’10”, and you do so to make yourself more appealing to anyone in any way, and of course this is determined by the DOJ itself, then you’ve committed a felony. Same thing for weight, eye color, an out of date photo or just any old thing. More laws, more criminals and it’s up to the individual to “know” the law as if anyone possibly could know them all.