Sports Fans

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Sports “fans” – most of whom are white – disgust me.p pic

The world is literally falling apart and all that matters to these dough heads is… the gaaaaaaaaaaame.

Did “we” win last night?

“We” are really looking good this season!

Almost all the men I know, sports is their main topic of conversation. Which of course means they fucking have nothing worth saying.

Or rather, nothing to say.

To talk about “the game” is to talk about nothing.

It is a game.

Children play games. And in their defense, at least the children actually play the games. Adult children watch – and talk (endlessly) about “the game.”

These adult-children worship thugs – provided the thug can throw a ball. Ray Rice. Ben Rothlisberger. OJ.

Let ’em play! He’s a good guy; deserves another chance.

I doubt they’d feel this way if an ordinary thug were to move in next door … or date their daughters.

I was at the gym the other day and watched a reporter interview half a dozen “fans” – all white – who defended the cretinous thug Ray Rice –  a near-Australopithecus who can barely speak (let alone write), and who would gleefully rape their wife, then beat her to a bloody pulp, were he not being paid $5 million a year to play fuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhttttttball. But the “fans” blank all that out, regard the near-Australopithecus as a demigod, the apotheosis of human achievement… because he can run fast and tackle someone or throw/catch a ball.

I emphasize the “all white” thing to make the point that blacks are not the only savages out there. Indeed, there are more white savages than black savages.  And – fuuuhhhhhhhhhhttttttttttttttttball-wise – it is the numerically overwhelming white savage fans (or rather, fans of savagery) who make savagery acceptable. Or at least, irrelevant.

sports fans

The rot goes deep.

Society – or rather, those who determine what is (and is not) socially approved – has sent out the vibe that it is “manly” to be obsessed with sports. Not actually playing them. But watching them and talking and obsessing about them… endlessly. It is effectively mandatory for males in the United State. Any man who does not care about “the game” is viewed with suspicion; he is at a disadvantage, socially and professionally. Hence, there is tremendous pressure to care very much about “the game.”

It’s a brilliant diversion.

Keeps the dumbasses occupied with trivia; destroys their moral sense. Turns them into fatuous, nihilistic morons. Cattle … smeared with face paint and wearing numbered T shirts.

Is there anything more pathetic than an overweight middle-aged guy wearing the colors of “his” team screaming in impotent fury at the TeeVee?

Yes, there is. Several middle-aged men screaming at the TeeVee.

Then agonizing over the minutia for the next several weeks/months/years. Rinse, repeat.

Imagine if people dressed up in prison jumpsuits while watching Orange is the New Black… or doctor whites while watching Scrubs. And kept track of “stats.”

Played “fantasy hospital.”

The eugenics movement was misdirected.

Man will probably never walk on the Moon again.

And forget Mars.

Not, at least, until human achievement (in science and engineering) is valued more than animal achievement (running fast, throwing a ball accurately).

Throw it in The Woods? 

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178 COMMENTS

  1. Great discussion! Whenever I ask someone how their kid is doing in school, without hesitation they tell me in great detail how they are doing in sports. If I inquire about their academic progress, I get a blank stare as if they haven’t a clue or the question is impertinent.

    • Thanks, Jim!

      And yeah – I get that too. The recitation of the kids’ having made the team/won the game, etc.

      Sad for them – and, for us.

    • Hi CC,

      Yup!

      There’s a correlation between sports worship and general decline. The mass watching/cheering – and the death of individualism (and the liberty that flows from it). There’s not much difference between a stadium full of people hysterically cheering “their” team and a sportsplasast (interesting, eh?) of hysterical volk sieg heiling the fuhrer.

  2. Jameis Winston.

    That’s all you need to know about the worship of sports in America.

    This guy is too stupid to have been allowed into ANY college or university. He was arrested in high school, but it was swept under the rug because he played football. Fast forward 3 years, and look at what has transpired since then. Theft, destruction of property, another theft, and sexual assault. And he was still allowed to play.

    That is, until he said something naughty about a woman. Then, finally, a suspension…for 1 game. And there are legions of FSU fans who don’t care. To Hades with them all…

    • Dear RJ,

      “I guess you don’t realize he was the younger player ever to win the Heisman Trophy? Did you know he led the Seminoles to a victory in the 2014 BCS National Championship Game and an undefeated 14–0 football season! Betcha didn’t know that, did ya?”

      (That’s how a football fan will respond to your assessment of his worth.)

      As for me, I’ve always been dumbfounded by the importance sports fans place on such “achievements.” You’d think the guy cured cancer or something.

      By the way, cancer has already been cured. G. Edward Griffen, the documentary film maker who exposed the shennanigans of the PTB in “The Creature from Jekyll Island,” has also blown the lid off Big Pharma’s ruthless suppression of B17 as a remarkably effective cancer treatment.

      G. Edward Griffin – A World Without Cancer – The Story Of Vitamin B17
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeYMduufa-E

    • I have a friend – well, an acquaintance – who lives down the road. Rabid Virginia Tech fuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhttttball fan. Guy has a little girl. And a wife. If a cretin such as Michael Vick – but not a fuuuhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttball god, just a big, menacing, low-IQ thug type who tortured dogs and beat women – moved in next door, he’d (rightly) be extremely upset.

      But if the said cretin is a fuhhhhhhhhhtttttball god, then the eyes glaze over, all is forgiven.

      It’s insane.

  3. What I truly can’t stand is the “sports bar”. I go out to eat regularly because my job puts me on the road a lot (your Clover and Saints of The Holy Pork stories all ring true to me, Eric). More and more, I avoid the places that have 100 TV’s in them, all tuned to different channels, all showing whatever sport they can. They may have good food, but I can’t deal with the overload of stimulation. THIS is what ’causes’ ADD.

    • Ditto that, Gabe.

      The constant noise… renders thought (and reflection) more difficult. Which may be just the object.

      I especially cannot abide the auto-tuned, fizzily effervescent, utterly vapid pop noise that’s all-but-inescapable if you’re not in the Woods.

      Abrasive cRap “music” is even worse.

      Is it a coincidence that such degraded, monotone (boom boom boom… bix noooood) noise has become the dominant form of “music” for the masses?

        • If only there were more of us!

          I finally stopped complaining at my gym – because I am apparently the only white guy over 40 who hates cRap.

          Not.

          The other white guys just won’t say anything.

          Mind: This is not an anti-black rant. It’s an anti-crap rant.

          I hate white trash, too.

          • I thought you were going to say because you found another gym to go to.

            In the line of business rescue programs, there is now one for gyms where such things that drive customers away are highlighted.

            • If I had the time (and funds) I’d open a “GF Gym” in my area. Ghetto free Gym. House rules:

              No cRap or processed/auto-tuned soul-poison will ever be played within these walls.

              There will be classic rock – and that is all.

              Love it – or leave it.

  4. TUSK, directed by @ThatKevinSmith – a cautionary tale for the podcaster
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCQJnOn0ru0

    A Philosophical Conversation with Robert A. Heinlein
    http://jneilschulman.rationalreview.com/2010/06/a-philosophical-conversation-with-robert-a-heinlein/

    HEINLEIN: I’m trying to phrase this clearly: “Is there ever any justification to accept something on faith? How can you prove this since by doing so you are inherently rejecting reason as final arbiter?” Now, there are a lot of implications in your question, a lot of hidden assumptions in your question. All the way through this I can see that you regard yourself as a rationalist and you regard reason as the final arbiter on anything.

    SCHULMAN: Well, I’m basically starting out with Ayn Rand’s Objectivist epistemology.

    HEINLEIN: Well, I’m not going to comment on Miss Rand’s epistemology; I have notions of my own. Have you read anything by Alfred Korzybski?

    SCHULMAN: No, I’m familiar with his work only through yours.

    HEINLEIN: You haven’t read Science and Sanity, for example?

    SCHULMAN: No, I haven’t.

    HEINLEIN: And you’re not familiar with his epistemological approach?

    SCHULMAN: Only what you yourself have mentioned.

    HEINLEIN: Let me invert these questions a bit. If you’ve read Stranger in a Strange Land, you’ve probably gathered what I think of faith. I do not regard faith as a basis on which to believe or disbelieve anything.

    On the other hand, Neil, there are many things—practically all of the important questions of philosophy—that are not subject to final answers purely by reason. In my opinion, they are not subject to final answers simply by reason. This has been gone into a considerable extent by philosophers in the past, and there’s even a term—a technical term—for that called “noumena” as opposed to “phenomena.”

    Phenomena are things that you can grasp through your physical senses or through measurements made with your physical senses through instruments and so forth and so in other words, phenomena are things that we can know about the physical universe.

    Noumena translates as the unknowable things. The unknowable things: What is the purpose of the universe? Why are you here on this earth? What should a man do with his life? All of those wide open, generalized, unlimited “whys.” There are all noumena, and consequently they are not subject—consequently by definition—these things are not subject to final answers simply by reason.

    My own attitude on that is shown a bit in several places in this last book [Time Enough For Love] in which Lazarus Long indicates that he hasn’t been able to find any purpose to the universe any more significant than gametes using zygotes to create mare gametes.

    He expresses it that way in one place, then he turns it over, turns it upside down, and expresses it another way to the effect that as far as he knows, there’s no more important purpose to the universe than making a baby with the help of a woman you love. And yet obviously neither of these things are answers; they are just expressions of what Lazarus Long happens to like. Now, do you happen to like chocolate malted milks?

    SCHULMAN: Uh, yes.

    HEINLEIN: Now, do you like them better than strawberry malted milks?

    SCHULMAN: Yeah, I would say so.

    HEINLEIN: Can you justify that by reason?

    SCHULMAN: No, I would say that it’s a purely subjective judgment.

    HEINLEIN: That’s right. That is correct. It doesn’t involve faith and it doesn’t involve reason.

    You’ll want to get pdf reader and read this. Heinlein says it’s important.

    European Society for General Semantics
    Science & Sanity
    by ALFRED KORZYBSKI, Author of Manhood of Humanity
    http://esgs.free.fr/uk/art/sands.htm

    Better still, buy it thru Lewrockwell’s or Mises’s Amazon partner account assuming they have one. I don’t know the link.

    Science and Sanity: An Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems
    and General Semantics
    http://www.amazon.com/Science-Sanity-Introduction-Non-Aristotelian-Semantics/dp/0937298018

    http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/63523.Alfred_Korzybski

    “The map is not the territory.”
    ― Alfred Korzybski [also oft repeated by Bevin IIRC]

    There are two ways to slide easily through life; to believe everything or doubt everything. Both ways save us from thinking.”

    “The objective level is not words, and cannot be reached by words alone. We must point our finger and be silent, or we will never reach this level.”
    ― Alfred Korzybski

    Institute of General Semantics A. Korzybski
    http://www.generalsemantics.org/the-general-semantics-learning-center/alfred-korzybski/

    • Tor, I’ve been re-reading Heinlein novels for the past few months. In my older, what I hope is wiser point in life, I’ve come to view him as maybe the best writer to put pen to paper. I’m reading “Friday” right now. Countless great points in that tome.

      • Just finished reading chapters 1,2,3,31,32 and 33 of the 33 chaptered novel. Excellent recommendation.

        “Art is the process of evoking pity and terror, which is not abstract at all but very human. What the self-styled modern artists are doing is a sort of unemotional pseudointellectual masturbation . . . whereas creative art is more like intercourse, in which the artist must seduce — render emotional — his audience, each time.”

        Heinlein has fathered countless creations as good or better than Atlas Shrugged. He snuck them in via the science fiction door when no one was looking. I’m not merely going Galt. I’m also going Heinlein.

        Don’t be afraid to be a hacker and hack your way to the things you need to be free in life. Friday will always belong to Heinlein, pay for it if you can, steal it if you must.

        Friday (pdf file)
        http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/literature/books_by_author/H/Heinlein,%20Robert/Friday.pdf

        • Thanks for the link, Tor. Here’s a good quote from early on –
          “No matter how lavishly overpaid, civil servants everywhere are convinced that they are horribly underpaid- but all public employees have larceny in their hearts or they wouldn’t be feeding at the public trough.”

  5. Seen on the internet. “I usually block people who are unattractive from my site. I’ve found that people who are ugly are often very mean. Sorry about that, but it’s the truth.”

    She might be onto something there. Take it from someone’s who never been rated a 10. Who’s most frequently heard complement is – “you have nice eyes.” Well, I think you can read between the lines and puzzle out the seen and the unseen on that one. Sometimes it’s for the best, when you ain’t got no alibi.

    The lasting power of ugly

    • “I usually block people who are unattractive from my site. I’ve found that people who are ugly are often very mean. ”

      Blind Kettle meets pot?

      That reminds me of some saying I’ve forgotten, something about, “Between the gaps”?

      • MMM(my main man) Helot,

        I may have paraphrased it poorly. It came across as sweet and genuinely apologetic. You do make a clever observation about her. Is it ugly, to seek the company of beauty and average looking people?

        And to shun the ugly. I’m thinking no. I’d crack a big smile if I was getting ready to enter some waterhole to deparchify, and there on the door it said “No Ugly People Allowed.”

        Heck, that might be just be the ticket for them to better enjoy their ride. We ugly ones can be formidable.

        Dance For Me Fellow Ugly Goblins future, present, and past (La Ronde des Lutins)

  6. What’s At The Center Of Our Galaxy?
    http://www.universetoday.com/109015/whats-at-the-center-of-our-galaxy/

    I’ll take this lady’s word for it. Because a womans words are the best and final. They are what is going to make it generation to generation regardless.

    Sure a man built these instruments. Developed all the techniques. Did all the heavy lifting and the long boring recordations of details and individual brass tacks. Sure there might be dozens of more qualified more knowledgeable men on the subject of Sagitarius A*.

    But the fact that this is now in her wheelhouse. That’s a sign of permanence in my eyes.

    Milky Way’s Supermassive Black Hole: Sagittarius A jet in 60 Seconds [HD]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Do57ajcso

    Listen to this other lady narrating. She’s recording this from NASA’s kitchen. I love it!

  7. I always wanted a CRX the tales of super mileage back in the day seemed almost mythical.

    The first generation 1983-4 CRX was sold in some regions outside Japan as the Honda Civic CRX. At its introduction, the CRX was available in Japan at Honda Verno dealership sales channels, and accompanied the Vigor, the Quint, and the Prelude.

    The original 1.3 liter car (chassis code AE532) had an EPA Highway mileage rating of 52 miles per gallon (MPG) in 1984 and was reported to often achieve over 70 MPG in favorable driving conditions.

    The Japanese Si and European 1.6i-16 models came with a 1590 cc DOHC engine putting out 135 bhp in the UK-spec model; and 140 bhp in the JDM model. Though similar versions of the same engine, the Japanese Si engine was stamped ZC, the European engine was stamped ZC1.

  8. The troof about Psalm 29. Before there was the earthly being Yeshua, called Christ by his followers, the Christians. All of the Psalms were previously known as the book of Tehillim. It was a part of the Hebrew collection of stories called the Tanakh.

    [It may be these Jews are the servants who tried to kill their masters’ other servants. The wicked ones who were replaced. Who can say. What is known, is these verses were beyond question the property of the Ancient Jews. Long before there were any Christians. Christians admit this. If you put any trust into history and archaeology, this is likewise confirmed in that way.]

    These “Psalms” were carried around in the minds of Hebrew storytellers. Handed down one to the other. For millenia. Then the Greeks conquered the Jews. And then the Romans conquered the pieces of the conquered Jews and ground them into the dust of the Jews.

    After all this, after the Greek plundering of Jewish artifacts and cultural rubble. And after the scholarly transcriptions and translations of these Jewish divinely inspired works. When the Jews were all but obliterated. And defenseless in the world of nations. That’s when the book of Psalms came to be. And what could the dust of these Jews do about it, but blow in the wind.

    The most contentious and interesting book of these so called Psalms. Is Psalm 29. This is now being confirmed to be a Yahwistic adaptation of a hymn to Baal. The more ancient source of these words was recently discovered by archaeologists. “Psalm 29” is from Pimilku – the master, a scribe and assistant in the court of Niqmad king of Ugarit.

    This is the version found there. Perhaps the most important of all scriptures. The story of the Cosmic Battle Myth. Maybe even a mythological version of the big bang struggle itself. If any of this is real in anyway.

    Part I

    I say to you, O Prince Baal, I declare O Charioteer of the clouds:
    Now your enemy, O Baal; now your enemy you will smite.
    Now you will destroy your adversary.
    Take your eternal kingdom, your dominion of all generations

    Drive Yamm(Sea) from his throne, Nahar (River) from his seat of rule

    Full Text of “Ugaritic Baal and `Anat Cycle” aka “Psalm 29”
    http://pages.uoregon.edu/dfalk/courses/bible/myth.htm

    Part III

    As you smote Lothan the twisting serpent, you desroyed the crooked serpent, the seven-headed tyrant . . .

    Baal will enter his (Mot)mouth, descend into him like an olive-cake . . . etc.

    *The messenger advises Baal to take his storm cloud and descend to Mot with his attendants. Baal obeys, but on the way he lusts after a cow and copulates with her “77 . . . no 87 times” and produces a child Math. Apparently he dresses up the child to look like him, and sends it to Mot. The body is discovered and messengers bring back the report that Baal is dead. Anat and El mourn. Anat goes to the underworld and slays Mot, and reports to El. She (or El) has a dream of fruitfulness on the earth, that convinces her that Baal is alive.

    – I am intensely interested in what all this once meant. And what we can glean from it. If most folks prefer to be literal and childlike about it. That’s fine. But I’d really like to know what this all means.

    As eric asks, how did all these G-ds get reduced to just being one G-d. It clearly hasn’t always been the case. I am interested in this. And in science and provable experimentations. If this is some kind of dissonance in the eyes of others. So be it.

    This is Ras Shamra. aka Ugarit. This is the oldest known finding of “Psalm 29” I don’t see one thing contradicting another or anything like that. Only just more and more pieces of a puzzle.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Ugarit_02.jpg

    A puzzle of our human and maybe divine history that we still don’t have all the pieces for. We don’t even know how they all fit together even.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Ugarit_02.jpg

    Abecedary of Ugarit Script
    http://www.specialtyinterests.net/pix/abecedary-ugaritic.jpg

    This is the earliest find of the true alphabet order. ABGD aleph bet gimel dalet alpha beta gamma delta

    Maybe the DALEKS are related to the DALETS, the letter D in Hebrew. If you don’t Obey Yah Way. You will be EXTERMINATED EXTERMINATED EXTERMINATED.

    Ba’al is a term for master, from what I understand. The passage specifically mentions Baal, the god of the Canaanites, who was also sarcastically called, “Lord of the Flies”, by other scholars, I believe.

    Now for the Hebrew version of the Psalm:
    1: Ascribe to YHWH, b’nai elim (“sons of gods,” “sons of God”), ascribe to YHWH glory and strength.
    2: Ascribe to YHWH the glory of His Name; worship YHWH in holy adornment.
    3: The voice of YHWH is over the water; El ha-kavod (“the God of glory”) thunders, YHWH is over many waters.
    4: The voice of YHWH is strong; the voice of YHWH is majestic.
    5: The voice of YHWH breaks the cedars; YHWH breaks the cedars of Lebanon.
    6: He makes Lebanon skip like a calf and Sirion like a young re’em.
    7: The voice of YHWH hews out flames of fire.
    8: The voice of YHWH shakes the wilderness; YHWH shakes the wilderness of Qadesh.
    9: The voice of YHWH gives premature birth to deer (or “twists the oaks”) and strips the forests bare; and in His temple, all of it says, “Glory!”
    10: YHWH sits enthroned over the flood; YHWH sits as King for ever.
    11: YHWH gives strength to His people; YHWH blesses His people with peace.
    The psalm contains references to storm (“the voice of YHWH”), which may have prompted the assumption that the psalm was either appropriated from an Canaanite hymn (the Psalm follows the pattern for a hymn found at the end of the Enuma Elish), or may have even been an Israelite parody/polemic mimicking Canaanite hymn patterns and inserting mythological references.

    Psalm 29=Ba’al origin because of these:

    The phrase b’nai elim (“sons of gods” or “sons of God”) occurs only in verse 1 and in Psalm 89:6. In Canaanite mythology the divine council of the high god El is referred to as “the sons of El.” (bn ‘ilm) The OT apparently borrows the Canaanite phrase and applies it to the supernatural beings (usually interpreted as “angels”) that surround the heavenly throne.

    Another would be the phrase mayim rabim (literally “many waters”) in verse 3. The theory is that the term mym rbm could be a motif that refers to Yam, the Ugaritic god of rivers and sea. Translating the phrase literally, it is certainly not a direct reference to Yam, but it is likely an allusion to the sea god, in light of the general literary patterns of the Psalm.

    By simply looking at these two phrases of Hebrew from Psalm 29, it shows that the psalmist had at least an understanding of the Canaanite pantheon, specifically El and Yam. Even so, this does not give any absolute proof of the effect of the Baal Cycle on the Hebrew Bible.

    Psalm 29 makes specific mention of YHWH’s sevenfold thunder (“the voice of YHWH”). Some point a parallel to an event in the Baal Cycle in which Baal puts away his seven lightnings and thunders. The number seven is a significant number in both Canaanite and Israelite texts. The entire battle between Baal and the god of death, Mot son of El takes place over the course of seven years.

    Later on in the Baal Cycle, Baal’s seven thunders become personified as his servants (some see specific passages such as Habakkuk 3 or Isaiah 6 as literary references to this).

    Ugarit—Ancient City in the Shadow of Baal
    http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003526

    Biblical Substratum?
    Examination of the Ras Shamra texts has led scholars to conclude certain Bible passages are adaptations of Ugaritic poetic literature. André Caquot, member of the French Institute, speaks of “the Canaanite cultural substratum at the heart of Israelite religion.”

    Regarding Psalm 29, Mitchell Dahood of the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome comments: “This psalm is a Yahwistic adaptation of an older Canaanite hymn to the storm-god Baal . . . Virtually every word in the psalm can now be duplicated in older Canaanite texts.”

  9. V = Hugo Weaving = Agent Smith = Old Georgie = Haskell Moore = All Time Great PTB Anti-Hero/Pseudo-Villain

    The Matrix vs ‘V’ – Freedom of Choice (Masonic Symbolism)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RZ_mzKh1s4

    Haskell Moore: There is a natural order to this world, and those who try to upend it do not fare well. This movement will never survive; if you join them, you and your entire family will be shunned. At best, you will exist a pariah to be spat at and beaten-at worst, to be lynched or crucified. And for what? For what? No matter what you do it will never amount to anything more than a single drop in a limitless ocean.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlLy_weG2cc

    Adam Ewing: What is an ocean but a multitude of drops?

    Hugo Weaving. Old Georgie. Speaks The Tru Tru. Cloud Atlas
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m45g7ikQzes

    V For Vendetta – I killed you 10 minutes ago.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Tuf_uQFFg

    Agent Smith = Carl Sagan?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlpyGhABXRA

    Robin Williams’ Death – Why Illuminati Involvement Is Always A Possibility…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJuljYQjje8

  10. My sport of choice? Astronomyyyyyyyyyyy!

    Note the darkened area with less stars above the tent
    http://imgur.com/K8By51k

    You’re seeing the Galactic Center of our galaxy, an area 27,000 light years away marked by a relative lack of visible stars and an intense radio source named Sagittarius A*.

    The motion of material around the center indicates that Sagittarius A* harbors a massive, compact object. This concentration of mass is best explained as a supermassive black hole with an estimated mass of 4.1–4.5 million times the mass of the Sun.

    Observations indicate that there are supermassive black holes located near the center of most normal galaxies such as our own barred-spiral galaxy.

    It takes 230 million years for our Sun and Solar System to make an orbit around Sagitarius A.
    http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question18.html

    We are moving at an average velocity of 828,000 km/hr

    Days of the week and light traveling distance from their celestial namesake

    Saturn day 1.3 light hours away from Sun
    Sun day 8.3 light minutes away from Earth
    Moon day 1.3 light seconds away from Earth
    Mars day 12.6 light minutes away from Sun
    Mercury day 3.2 light minutes away from Sun
    Jupiter day 43.2 light minutes away from Sun
    Venus day 6 light minutes away from Sun

    Manmade Objects Distance
    Voyager 1 35.6 light hours away from Sun
    Voyager 2 29.1 light hours away from Sun
    Pioneer 10 15.3 light hours away from Sun
    Pioneer 11 12.3 light hours away from Sun

    Other Nearby Major Gravity Wells light travelling distance
    Uranus 2.7 light hours away from Sun
    Neptune 4.1 light hours away from Sun
    Pluto 5.5 light hours away from Sun

    Haumea 6 light hours away from Sun
    Makemake 6.4 light hours away from Sun
    Eris 9.4 light hours away from Sun
    Sedna 12.5 light hours away from Sun

    Ceres 23 light minutes away from Sun
    Pallas 21 light minutes away from Sun
    Vesta 18 light minutes away from Sun
    Juno 17 light minutes away from Sun

    Proxima Centauri 4.2 light years away from Earth
    Andromeda Galaxy 2.9 million light years away from Earth

    Even before faster than light. These locations are all accessible at current speeds. Worse case, given a large enough pioneer spacecraft, your descendants will live to reach Proxima Centauri in the not so distant future.

    As the Solar Probe Plus passes around the Sun in 2018, it will achieve a velocity of 200 km/s (120 mi/s) at that time making it the fastest manmade object ever, almost three times faster than the current record holder, Helios II.

    Since 1 light second = 186,282 miles
    A vehicle like Solar Probe Plus could reach the moon in 33.2 minutes
    A privately owned Solar Probe Plus could reach the sun in 8.9 days
    It’s feasible for someone to build a Solar Probe Plus and get away. Far away. Once that happens, who knows what’s possible for the rest of us.

    • Excellent, Tor!

      I am also an astronomy fan. “The game” is played almost every night – and the Big Screen is a really big screen.

      David gets a charge out of reading the Bible.

      I get mine looking at the night sky.

      • I actually really enjoy astronomy as well. I bought a pair of astronomical binoculars recently for that purpose. The universe is absolutely fascinating. And for me, its just a picture of how great the God who made it is.

        • In Psalm 19, King David wrote, ” The heavens declare the glory of God and the skies declare His handiwork.”
          I know several of you here don’t believe in God or creation, but for me it takes more faith to believe this all just happened by accident.

          • Dear Phil,

            If those were the only choices, I might feel compelled to posit some sort of “creator” as well!

            Alas that is not the case. And that is not how many if not most atheists perceive the universe.

            While Aristotle applied the idea of final causation (i.e., explanation in terms of ends) to nature, he regarded these ends as inherent in nature, rather than as being imposed by an external agent. According to Aristotle, each entity tends to develop in the direction of its natural end—such as with an acorn which, under a given set of circumstances, will naturally grow into an oak tree.

            For Aquinas, however, the fact that acorns continue to grow into oaks, the fact that nature exhibits regularity, constitutes evidence of divine guidance. Apparently, without the assistance of god, nature would degenerate into chaotic randomness.

            (1) Let us grant the premises of this argument and see where it leads. Order is exhibited in nature; order requires a designer; therefore, god exists. Surely, the wondrous regularity of nature—where acorns grow into trees and planets revolve around the sun—cannot be the result of mere chance. There must be a master planner at work.
            It is now up to the theist to answer the question: Who designed god? Surely, nothing as complex and intricate as a supernatural intelligence can be the result of mere “chance.” Therefore, there must
            be a super-designer who designed god. But a super-designer would require a super-super-designer, and so on ad infinitum. Thus, by the premises of the teleological argument, we are led to an infinite
            series of transcendental designers—a “solution” that leaves much to be desired. If an orderly universe requires explanation, the positing of a god does not provide it.

            From Atheism: The Case Against God, by George H. Smith
            https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jksadegh/A%20Good%20Atheist%20Secularist%20Skeptical%20Book%20Collection/George%20H.%20Smith%20-%20Atheism-%20The%20Case%20Against%20God%20%28v1.1%29.pdf

            Smith has taken every argument ever rallied in the name of theism and refuted them one by one. I urge anyone who is undecided about theism to read it. As you can see, it is available online for free.

  11. It’s always seemed like life is a sport I’ve never learned to play. In some vague way I know something is likely to be accepted or criticized by all you players of the one official game of life.

    With all due candor, I really never understood all the conflicting rules. And even if somehow I could learn them, I’d still ask why consent to playing someone else’s game in the first place? My own private games have always seems more fun and so that what I’m usually playing.

    These are the reddiot droppings regarding the 1976 Trans-Am VS 5th Gen Camaro Comparison article some else posted. [Thank you someone else!]. If clover and gil were smart, this is where they could make a userid and finally get a chance to shout from the soapbox tops. [my guess is they wouldn’t accomplish their goals on reddit either]

    It’s funny to me how poor and powerless most or all these commenters are likely to be in real life. If only they’d engage in some building, or at least slow down on the destroying. I’d take all this with some grain alcohol and salt, but just thought it might be fun to read for at least one person.

    [–]bubonis 7 points 3 days ago
    This just about perfectly sums up my feelings about the content of this article.
    permasailbe savin’be squawkin’share bootyreply
    [it was a short clip of jurassic park dinosaur droppings]

    [–]icefire1020 3 points 3 days ago
    Perfect. Not once did this guy mention horsepower or quarter mile times or real world cruising mpgs. He says he gets 24mpgs on the highway but nowhere does he say what he gets cruising around town
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]bubonis 7 points 3 days ago
    It’s not even that, or at least not just that. It’s the fact that the author decries every improvement of the modern Camaro, basically writes it off as if it was absolutely unimportant, solely because his TA has nearly the same gas mileage as the Camaro. Forget all about the Camaro having an infinitely cleaner, more powerful, more efficient, more reliable engine and transmission. It doesn’t matter that the Camaro has immeasurably better ride quality, handling, traction control, and braking. Don’t concern yourself with the vastly improved build quality, structural improvements, and crumple zones. Ignore the near-luxury-quality (by comparison) interior with multiple air bags, climate control, fantastic stereo and myriad of other creature comforts and safety features.
    Nah, fuck that. They have the same MPG, and for cars that are ~40 years apart that’s all that matters.
    Fuck the author with a lead pipe.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]icefire1020 1 point 3 days ago
    Haha, true. Try to stop his car or launch hard and see how the body twists.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]bubonis 1 point 3 days ago
    Oh, and let’s also not forget that the author illegally removed the catalytic converters from his TA.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]cevenson6788 IROC-Z 5.0 TBI 2 points 3 days ago
    Actually, that car wouldn’t have had catalytic converters from the factory.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]bubonis 1 point 3 days ago
    All cars built after model year 1975 had mandatory cats, right? His TA is a 1976. Would have had cats.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]cevenson6788 IROC-Z 5.0 TBI 1 point 3 days ago
    Should have, but not necessarily. There were vehicles that didn’t get them until years later. It’s also wasn’t/isn’t illegal to remove them in most states.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]bubonis 0 points 3 days ago
    There were vehicles that didn’t get them until years later.
    A scant few, yes, but those were the exceptions to the rule, and does not include the author’s 1976 Trans Am which would have had a catalytic converter installed at the factory as per the federal EPA mandate.
    It’s also wasn’t/isn’t illegal to remove them in most states.
    That’s just not true, or at least not entirely true. It IS true that it’s legal to remove a catalytic converter from a vehicle that had one from the factory, it IS NOT true that it’s legal to drive that vehicle on the street once the cat has been removed. This is not a state-to-state thing; this is a federal mandate. Therefore, if the author’s car doesn’t have cats and he’s driving it on the road — and since he installed an overdrive transmission the odds of that are virtually 100% — then he’s a royal asshat polluter on top of all the FUD he spewed in his article.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]cevenson6788 IROC-Z 5.0 TBI 1 point 3 days ago
    “Royal asshat polluter”? Really? There was more pollution created building a 5th gen, prius, or any other modern, tree-hugging car, than that 2nd gen would produce its entire life running without cats.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    be continuin’ th’ thread
    [–]bubonis 1 point 3 days ago
    So, it’s okay for him to remove the cats from his car because Toyota is polluting more. Great argument. I’m gonna walk away from that one now.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]KevinLee487 2 points 2 days ago
    Depends on where he is. If he doesn’t have emissions testing in his area, he can drive around with open headers if he so pleased.
    Granted, the noise might be another issue.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]bubonis 2 points 1 day ago
    Depends on where he is.
    Unless he’s outside of the United States, no, it doesn’t.
    If he doesn’t have emissions testing in his area, he can drive around with open headers if he so pleased.
    Not legally. Whether or not he has emissions testing in his area doesn’t grant him exemption from federal EPA laws.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]KevinLee487 2 points 1 day ago
    Good luck enforcing EPA laws when the car isn’t required to do an inspection or emissions….
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]bubonis 1 point 1 day ago
    Two things.
    One, it’s fascinating — on a repulsive level to be sure — that you seem to have no issues whatsoever with someone who purposely chooses to pollute the atmosphere. What’s next for you? Defending those who are “rolling coal” in their monster trucks? Personally, and legality notwithstanding, I find it commendable when a person goes out of their way to modify their vehicle to run cleaner rather than applaud and encourage those who purposely modify their vehicles to run dirtier. IMO, only a self-centered asshole would do something like that.
    Two, you’re right. The car isn’t required to do an emissions test. But the mandated visual inspection of the catalytic converter is required. That’s why they put those mirrors under the car; they’re looking for the cat.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]KevinLee487 1 point 1 day ago*
    One, it’s fascinating — on a repulsive level to be sure — that you seem to have no issues whatsoever with someone who purposely chooses to pollute the atmosphere.
    Hold the fuck on Captain Planet. EVERY car. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Pollutes in one way or another. If its not by running the engine, its the processes involved in manufacturing it. That being said, its not an effort to make the car run dirtier, its to remove restrictions to make more power. Something a vast majority of modified muscle car owners do. Sure you can run headers and still have cats, but if you don’t have to do emissions, you might as well rip those bastards out because they are contributing NOTHING to your car at that point aside from restricting power and noise.
    Secondly, you’re trying to act high and mighty about pollution on a fucking CHEVROLET CAMARO subreddit. Might want to take that shit over to r/treehuggers, /r/prius or /r/hippies
    Lastly
    Two, you’re right. The car isn’t required to do an emissions test. But the mandated visual inspection of the catalytic converter is required.
    If the car isn’t required to do emissions testing or subjected to annual inspections, then nobody will ever know. Inspections aren’t required everywhere. Look at Illinois for example. Anything older than 15 MY isn’t required to submit to emissions testing and theres no other annual inspection. So for example, if I lived in Illinois, I could take my Trans Am, rip the exhaust off and as long as it adheres to noise ordinance, nobody would be any the wiser. Hell, here in Indiana they don’t visually inspect any car that has OBDII ( So anything newer than 1995 ). I know people who have removed their cats, had the corresponding trouble codes turned off via an aftermarket tune and then went on and passed emissions.
    Please do not open your mouth in such a manner again when you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply
    be continuin’ th’ thread

    [–]bubonis 0 points 1 day ago
    TL;DR. The moment you started in with the childish name calling (“Captain Planet”) you showed your true colors, mister troll. You’re wrong. End of story. Bye now!
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]KevinLee487 1 point 17 hours ago*
    Too stumped to come up with a legitimate rebuttal to being proven wrong?
    It’s ok, call troll all you want. It doesn’t change the fact that you’re talking out of your ass.
    Edit : Downvoting doesn’t change anything either.

    [–]cevenson6788 IROC-Z 5.0 TBI 1 point 3 days ago
    The real point of this article is that fact that new cars are fat. Sure, your 5th gen might have 400hp, but it needs that much just to move.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]bubonis 2 points 3 days ago*
    The real point of this article is that fact that new cars are fat.
    Then the “real point” of the article is a miserable failure as it fails to offer any supporting evidence for that assertion. The author’s TA has a HP:weight ratio of 18.8:1 (3750 lbs, 200 hp), while a new base model Camaro — which outperforms the author’s TA in every measurable respect — has a HP:weight ratio of 11.8:1 (3802 lbs, 323 hp). So why is a 3750 lb car with an 18.8:1 ratio “light” while a car that weighs only 52 lbs more and has an 11.8:1 weight ratio — on top of all of the other superior offerings the new Camaro has — is considered “fat”?
    Sure, your 5th gen might have 400hp, but it needs that much just to move.
    Did you look at the numbers before posting that? The base Camaro outperforms the author’s Trans Am and on paper the weight difference is a scant 52 lbs. Or are you suggesting that the new Camaro somehow needs an additional 123 horsepower over the author’s TA in order to haul that extra 52 lbs around?
    Look, in order for the new Camaro to have the same power:weight ratio as the author’s TA it would need to have nearly the same power as the author’s TA, which would mean about a 120hp loss over what it has now. Were that the case, the new Camaro — with its more rigid body, myriad of safety and comfort features, and better gear ratios — would still outperform the author’s TA. If you were to strip out all that “fat” — the power windows, fancy stereo, air conditioning, etc — it would just make the new Camaro that much more lean and still faster than the author’s TA. No matter how you slice it, the new Camaro is infinitely better than the author’s TA.
    So his entire argument makes no sense. Really, what the author is actually lamenting is not that the new Camaro is overweight (it isn’t) and therefore requires extra power to move that weight around (it doesn’t), but rather that his ~40 year old car gets the same mileage as a brand new car but doesn’t have the safety, stability, performance, reliability, comfort, or efficiency of the new car.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]cevenson6788 IROC-Z 5.0 TBI 1 point 3 days ago
    I’m not arguing that the author’s TA is the greatest vehicle around, nor that 5th gens are slow, I’m simply stating that it is a known fact that heavier cars perform worse and get worse fuel mileage. You can buy 4-cylinder cars that perform better and get better fuel mileage than a 5th gen ss, simply because they’re that much lighter.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]bubonis 1 point 3 days ago*
    I’m simply stating that it is a known fact that heavier cars perform worse and get worse fuel mileage.
    All else being equal, you would be correct. But this is not a situation where all else is equal, and the numbers prove that.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]starfishy 4 points 3 days ago
    You are entirely correct about the weight difference. However, your Trans Am would not fulfill today’s crash test, smog and safety relations, which are a big part of the reason why today’s cars are so heavy. Also, I doubt you will see the 16mpg in town that you would see with a current Camaro with cold starts, short distances driven and lots of stoplights.
    permasailbe savin’be squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]bubonis 3 points 3 days ago
    The author’s TA is 3750 lbs; the new Camaro is 3802 lbs, only 52 lbs heavier. So, how is the author “entirely correct” about the weight difference when the two cars are virtually the same weight?
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]starfishy 2 points 3 days ago
    The new Camaro would be a lot lighter if it was built to the same standards as his. I was referring to his assertion that new cars are often heavier than their classic counterparts.
    permasailbe savin’parentbe squawkin’share bootyreply

    [–]bubonis 3 points 3 days ago
    The new Camaro would be a lot lighter if it was built to the same standards as his.
    The new Camaro couldn’t be built to the same standards as his; otherwise it wouldn’t be a new Camaro. By design and engineering, it’s built around higher standards. Even if you stripped the Camaro of everything possible to get it down to the level of the author’s TA, you still can’t remove the inherent superiority of the engineering behind it. If the author is complaining about the difference of standards, that’s just dumb. It’s called progress. Yeah, some of it was mandated by the EPA; we all know what happens when big business is left to their own devices unchecked so things like catalytic converters are good things. Personally I think passive restraints are awesome; they provide at least some protection against the monkey driving in the car next to me.
    So, if the author is actually lamenting the fact that cars today are built to higher standards of comfort, efficiency, performance, reliability, quality, and most everything else, then the author is a complete nimrod.
    I was referring to his assertion that new cars are often heavier than their classic counterparts.
    And here’s the question that the author fails to ask himself: Even if that were true across the board, which it isn’t, so what? A heavier car doesn’t automatically equate to an inferior car, especially when there’s 40 years of engineering behind the creation of the heavier car. But the author seems to lament the fact that his “lighter” (by 52 lbs) car is so much better than the “heavier” car, thereby ignoring the 40 years of progress in between their creation.

    • Hi Tor,

      Interesting that all those people missed the entire point of the article – which is that the new Camaro (like most new cars) is overweight and so over-consumptive.

      Whether the new Camaro handles better – or pollutes less – what has that got to do with the issue of the car being so got-damned heavy?

      • eric, some of the new performance models only cost you thousands to pare a little weight off. And you could do most of it yourself by throwing the interior away(just like the factory racer), replacing the hood with lighter parts as well as the front clip(now where have I seen that before, oh yeah, the ’62 Ford), getting much thinner glass, Installing different shocks and doing one thing they don’t do on some models, up the HP. Not saying more HP makes one handle better but it can sure help you steer by throttle and then there’s those straightaways.

        When they first came out one pulled right up beside the wife’s Cutlass. Where’s the turret? say I. Hell, they’re as big as the Charger and that’s a double handful.

      • My Main Man Eric,
        I looked at these comments after I posted them. Again sorry for my poor prose lately, lots of errors on my part. Anyway, there seems to be just one ideologue skewing the responses to your article:

        the user named bubonis. he’s the first poster. and he’s every other poster all the way thru the article. he might even be using multiple accounts, while against reddit policy its likely not much of an issue for those who use them.

        Your work seems to be perceived as some kind of existential polemic against the reddit site zeitgeist itself. I imagine many of us here on your site are seen as a similar species of LOLbertarians to these hipster nihilists, or whatever the best word is for them. .

        bubonis’ highest ranked post is about feeding a squirrel in Central Park.

        Here’s his second highest ranked post. A response to some guy who injects snake venom into his body. I’m not good with terminology, maybe he’s a White Hat. A Captain SaveAHo. A Cockblocker. He’s some kind of statistically uncommon internet guru wannabe, who seems to get his jollies negating the efforts of others. For his sake, I hope he’s a constructive criticizer, I can’t tell. Seems like a Negator Type Clover, if that’s even a thing.

        IAmA guy who’s been injecting deadly snake venom into myself for 20 years. AMA by venomsupermanin IAmA

        [–]bubonis 2021 points 1 year ago*x2
        I’m afraid I’m going to be targeted as a mean-spirited troll in saying this, but I feel very strongly that this needs to be said:

        You are not a well man, and you should sincerely look into psychological counseling. I don’t have a problem with your handling of snakes, nor do I think you’re being cruel to them. I do think that what you believe are positive manifestations of injecting snake venom are purely psychological, or at the very least are being falsely attributed to snake venom. For lack of a better term, you are suffering from a Prayer Delusion. You are crediting snake venom for things your body can (and does) do without it.

        For example, you claimed in your video that you felt fast and strong after injecting yourself with snake venom. You even claim to be able to move like a snake afterwards (completely ignoring the realities of vectors of force on a skateboard; no, it couldn’t be that, it has to be the venom). Your response to another redditor here says that cobra venom “makes you feel kind of charged, and possibly lack of pain”.

        Well, yes, it would, because your body is releasing endorphins to combat the trauma that you just put your system through. You classify this as being a positive attribute of injecting venom; it’s not. It’s your body’s way of helping you stay alive despite your actions, not because of them. You would get a comparable rush after some hard exercise and with a lot less risk and a lot more benefit to your health.

        You claim the snake venom is responsible for your youthful appearance, which IMO is the most transparent attribution you’ve made. Your appearance depends on a lot of things; your genetics, your diet, your environment, your activity level, etc. One of the guys I work with is 41 years old but you would swear he was in his mid 20’s at most.

        You also don’t seem to recognize the psychological loop you’ve inserted yourself into. You’ve effectively predicted the results of your experimentation before it even happened. You say, “I knew that night which venoms I was going to use and everything. I had a strong feeling that something good would come of it.” So you didn’t start injecting yourself with the notion of “what if?” but rather with the explicit belief that it would work.

        This is called the placebo effect; you believe it works so it does, to an extent, and anything positive you see as a result reinforces your delusion that it’s the positive attributes of the venom. That delusion just reinforces your belief and the cycle repeats itself, until you die. You largely brush off the negatives, like almost losing your leg or turning your blood into pudding, as being unimportant. It will kill you.

        You have no medical background, no meaningful education. You have no scientifically credible documentation of your process, in fact nothing that would hold up through peer review. You say there is a “there is a method to (your) ‘madness'” but so far you haven’t shown any method at all. Just madness.

        I think you just have some self-destructive issues which I really think need to be addressed from a psychological perspective. I don’t say this to be mean spirited, to drag you down, or anything negative like that. You sincerely need help and I sincerely hope you get it.

        Good luck.

        EDIT: Thanks for the gold!

      • Dear Eric,

        “… what has that got to do with the issue of the car being so got-damned heavy?”

        Exactly. A two word rebuttal to all of that verbiage:

        Colin. Chapman.

        In 1952 he founded the sports car company Lotus Cars… His knowledge of the latest aeronautical engineering techniques would prove vital towards achieving the major automotive technical advances he is remembered for. He was famous for saying “Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere”, as his design philosophy focused on cars with light weight and fine handling instead of bulking up on horsepower and spring rates.[3]

        • Morning, Bevin!

          Yup.

          It’s absurd that a 2014 Camaro – which by the way has an aluminum engine as well as many aluminum suspension components – nonetheless weighs several hundred pounds more than a car like my Trans-Am, which was designed in the late 1960s, and which has a bolt-on steel subframe and a huge cast iron V-8, heavy steel wheels and stamped steel suspension pieces.

          The new car ought to weight several hundred pounds less.

          • Dear Eric,

            It’s crazy.

            The 2014 Camaro is listed at 3,700 lbs.

            The Subaru BRZ, a 2+2, is listed at 2,700 lbs. A 1000 lb, or half ton difference. Even if it were stretched slightly to give it more rear seat legroom, it still wouldn’t have to weigh 3,700 lbs.

            The Nissan 280Z 2+2 was 2,900 lbs.
            The Jaguar XK-E 2+2 was 3,000 lbs.

          • Vehicle weights these days make no sense at all. Seems like they are moving in the wrong direction.

            Smart Car: 1,610 lbs
            Honda Civic (80s): 1,587 lbs

          • Dear dom,

            A coworker of mine back in the 80s had a Honda CRX. She gave me a lift one time.

            Boy that thing was light and zippy. Only 1700 lbs. I wasn’t driving it, but I could feel how nimble it was even from the passenger seat. Reminded my of the old Austin Mini, another front driver that was tiny and lightweight.

      • I was just watching the latest “Transformers” sequel.

        In it, an old first generation Camaro is “upgraded” to a current generation Camaro.

        Now how wrong is that?

  12. Plato wrote in Phaedrus that Socrates taught: “Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people.”

    Freethinkers, knowing the laissez unfaire mindset of the ruling class, know a priori before investigation that some statist Nurse Ratched cunt on stilts never created something this quotable nor unique.

    Freethinkers observe that lazy overfed fatcat members of the Aristocracy of Pull are never found in Open Agora verbally catfighting other wordsmiths; nor perfecting their schtick there; for there is neither impetus nor apprenticeship that prepares them to orate there.

  13. Eric, I get a hoot out of reading a self-professed libertarian like you employ reverse discrimination… blaming almost all sports fan idiocy on “white folk.” 🙂

    Out here in Az, A LOT of “African Americans” and “Latinos” prove to be just as stupid as whites, in their equal opportunity idolization of the Cardinals.

    • Well, numerically, most sports fans are white!

      I only “discriminate” against the stupid, the ugly and the violent.

      Irrespective of color.

      • Ugliness, and sometimes stupidity, may be outside of ones control. It may be “acceptable” to discriminate against someone for something they can’t control, but is it right?

        Violence, of course, is a choice.

        • By “discriminate,” I mean select from among (or choose). I discriminate when I choose not to associate with people I dislike.

          I am not interested in harming the stupid; I am just not interested in them.

          • @Eric- Fair point. I guess for me it depends on the type of stupidity and the type of relationship. Also, I find that there are precious few people that are truly intelligent when it comes to substantive matters of debate. Even people I know who are probably “intelligent” in the strictest sense show what I would call political stupidity. Just looking at the more moderate RPF posters’ reaction to ISIS is a good example of what I’m talking about it. Then realize that even (the less libertarian half of) RPF is better than the average person on the street when it comes to that kind of stuff, and its pretty bad. I’d love nothing more than to be able to not associate with any of the warmongers and police apologists, but then I would be almost completely alone. Our society is still way too stupid for me to be able to be anywhere near consistent on this.

            Although, perhaps when you said “stupid” you weren’t thinking of politics. That’s usually where my mind goes these days.

            Admittedly, I’m not sure why ugliness would matter when choosing friends. A spouse/significant other, sure, but friends? Why?

          • Dear Eric,

            Jeff Berwick anarchist financial consultant, also takes notes of the “military football complex.”

            http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014/9/18/the-nfls-pr-nightmare-a-symptom-of-a-decaying-us-empire.html

            “The NFL is a microcosm of the US itself. A main incubator for militaristic thought, it seems the private not-for-profit organization is falling apart at the seams just like the US. While many players – who have suffered brutal hits throughout most of their lives – were arrested for violent infringements, others were arrested for minor things, meaning that some of the NFL’s problems has to do with adapting to incorporation in a police state. “

          • eric, I was bothered and continue to be by your singling out “ugly” people. So you only associate with the ‘beautiful’ people? I don’t understand what physical beauty has to do with anything.

            That brings to mind self-delusion, something we all have in spades but it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. We all come to varying degrees of understanding it and age seems to help most people in understanding it although it’s certainly no standard as such.

            I have noticed in my life that our own delusion can sometimes or nearly always in some respect, be passed on to other people. We don’t even realize we’re doing it. It’s just the human way and often determines our definition of “ugly”.

            One man’s meat is another man’s poison so to speak. And I’m not just quoting Commander Cody.

            When I think of self-delusion, one of my most vivid recollections involving same, was a situation I had to hold myself together to keep from laughing in someone’s face.

            When I was a Young Man of 57 a friend of about 40 introduced me to his step-sister. She immediately admonished us to keep our language “clean” by her standards and not speak of sexual things as her 15 year old daughter would soon be in our presence and she didn’t want her mind to be contaminated by this old evil world of sex, drugs, rock and roll and did I mention sex drugs and rock and roll, all things she fairly much lived her life by. That’s some serious self-delusion but it went farther than that. A few minutes later the daughter showed up and by just about any American male’s view she was a “looker”. He mother introduces me to her and the child turns to me and gives me “the look”. I kept a straight face and played it out. I wanted to say Gee, what’s say you and I get in my truck and go find ALL the things you’re accustomed to. Only her mother would have been shocked. Of course I wouldn’t have meant it literally, but just as an object lesson. Later, her step brother and I were alone and we ROTFLAOAO about it.

            Six months later, four months after turning 16, she hooked up with an older high school boy and lived with him in his parent’s house. Her mother had run out of divorce money and was under the influence of a few very powerful prescription drugs administered by a “pain specialist”. She didn’t appear to know where she was, and that was sad, and probably had no idea where her daughter, the pure maiden, was or anything else. Self-delusion….ain’t it grand. And to think that’s what’s basically keeping us all going, to one degree or another.

            Not pointing a finger at anyone here, it just came to mind with the “ugly” word.

          • Ugly does not HAVE to apply to physical appearance. I know of some ugly people who look really nice. But you would not know that from a TV screen.

  14. Wow, just wow; give it good and hard to all this non-sequitorial toddler tantrumming masquerading as sport. Pishposh tommyrot.

    Anatomy of a NewsCast

    1 Wars. Deify military and martial decision making. Sell state using fear tactic.

    2 Crimes. Deify police and statutorial thinking. Sell state using individual distrust tactic.

    3 An Actual event. Cheerfully depict a single local relevant story for control purposes. Sell state mandated news program as useful and relevant.

    4 Weather. Deify orbitting surveillance. Portray the earth as a perp commiting deadly environmental crimes. Sell benefits of eye of horus in the sky.

    5 Sports. Deify mindless thuggery. Sanctify oligarchic owners. Encourage passivity and faux regional aggressions. Sell the local bread and circus franchise operation.

    6 Things not included: Never show any footage that will actually educate anyone on who creates and produces things. Nor shed light on the what, when, where, why, and how of this either. Never show any footage where the content isn’t planned in advance, where someone isn’t reading a script, or where someone isn’t playacting exaggeratingly about some inane non-event. Sell slavery.

  15. A man making sport and blogging with his canine brothers.

    good man restores wounded canine to good health

    This dog just showed up and followed us for an entire week during our trekking trip in the Himalayan outback…When I got up at 4 a.m. to climb the next 5000 m peak…he accompanied me as well. On the top he sat for the entire 30 minutes
    http://ppcdn.500px.org/52866292/9e944f286e9ba110135839dca1aff8a18e18ffe8/2048.jpg

    Hello, my name is Allena Hansen. In 2008 while I was working on my isolated mountain property, I was mauled by a black bear. I was saved by my thumbnail and my two faithful ranch dogs, I hiked out of a box canyon and drove myself four miles down a rutted logging road to our little rural fire station from which I was airlifted to UCLA Medical Center.

    There I underwent eight hours of emergency surgery and survived the subsequent onslaught of LA reality television’s media hounds. Five years and a dozen surgeries later, I’m back to some semblance of my original self.

    Here’s Me with my beloved hounds: http://i.imgur.com/XdKJkQ5.jpg

    Here’s the disquieting meatlump they airlifted into UCLA medical center: (Warning: NSFW/gore) http://imgur.com/bew8pqy

    None of us make it out of here alive, but I’m convinced that a snappy attitude is crucial to enjoying our allotted time on this planet. If you’re in need of irreverent advice, pearls of wisdom or just a grandmotherly ear to tut-tut your angst into, please don’t hesitate to message me. I’ll do my best to reply to all courteous inquiries.

    Also, please feel free to link this to where ever; I’d love it if you guys could help me get this story out to people who might find it useful in their own lives. Remember, if a little old lady can pull it off, SO CAN YOU!

    Thanks so much for reading; this has been a total hoot!
    Cheers all, Allena

    Bear Attack Victim Speaks
    http://abc7.com/archive/6302040/
    (why aren’t bears the victims, there’s always some human bothering them no matter how hard they try to find somewhere they’ll be left alone)

    • In re: “Play the pretend to care game so am not outed as a “freak” or “faggot.”

      There’s more than a little homoeroticism inherent in worshipping other men… venerating their physical achievements. Admiring how fast they can run….

      Women get laughed at (by men) for celebrity gawking; for worshipping Jennifer Aniston or Jennifer Garner. Wearing their hair the same way, trying to be like them.

      Why does the same not apply to men?

      And: The best revenge (for a man dealing with other men who are jock-sniffers) is to be bigger, stronger and more actually manly than they are. This will flummox them. Pretty much all the guys I know who spend the entire weekend (and the week after that) in a fuuhhhhhhhhhtttttttball coma are fat and out of shape and couldn’t run a quarter-mile without having a heart attack.

          • One last try. Is it the length, or the asterisks?

            Seems to me you Have defended the obsession/worship of football players.
            “So sue me” you wrote.
            Relaxation/escape, you claimed.

            If you replaced the phrase, ‘football team’ with the phrase, ‘Devil Worshipers’ (certarius paribus) would you be so keen to, ‘fantasy league’ them, or to watch them and claim to be a part of them?

            I mean, did you gloss over the Lawrence Vance articles I linked to?

            As stupid-assed Clover says, Tell me how the football on the Tee-Vee is different from a Satanic Ritual? Enticing, alluring, baby-stepping into the next logical step,… from defending the end zone, into defending the empire.

            Sports is used to suck People into the war mindset and to condition them,… why, as a Christian, would you enjoy being a part of That?

            I say this as someone who used to enjoy watching these games with friends, before the empire shat on it and made it more a part of the empire. [Just so you know I’m Not talking as someone who Never watched sports or anything.] Back then, like others have mentioned, we saw it as, “just a game”. The, ‘Half-time’ talk, back-then, was when you got up to get a new drink or talk to friends, not like today when People tune-in even more. But even back then, the whole she-bang was about war training and conditioning the masses to support war, alongside conditioning people to obey “authority”.
            Many People didn’t see it then.
            It’s being pointed out, now.

            Maybe I see it more clearly because I played it?
            From my experience, those who are Most suckered in, Never played.
            That’s Not to say the players can’t be suckered in too, just ask guys like Jim McMahon,… oh wait, they can’t answer cause they’re half-brain dead like the guys in the military who got their balls blown off while fighting for empire in the MidEast.

            David wrote (or it could be anyone) “I guess I’m in an unusual environment in that I don’t really know anyone who’s ultra-obsessed with sports.”

            From my perspective/vantage point, any time I see someone say, “My team” when they are not actually a-part-of-that-team, I see someone who is, “ultra-obsessed”.

            Not to pick on you or anything (you’re hardly The Only One) but, this is timeless, “The kinds of people you’re talking about aren’t the kinds of people I associate with on a daily basis.”

            Oh no?
            You Do say?

            An hour a day picking “teams”?
            Mirror, meet reflection.

            I only say that so others may learn.

            Also, I could sooo see someone in 1940’s Germany or 1940’s California saying the same thing. “I’m Not one of *them*!

            Don’t get me wrong, I liked PLAYING football, when I was young. It was Great fun, especially when the players made the rules and enforced the rules!
            Corruption is the only word I can think of when others came to watch, even If, it was Only your Mom.
            Especially then.

          • Fucking spam-blocking mother fucker.
            Pardon my French.
            I just hate it when an idea can’t come through.
            There’s just something about my prior comment the spam-blocker doesn’t like.
            Ah-well, no one can say I didn’t try.

            (Shut Up, Yoda. I know there is Only, “Do”, not, “Try”.)

            Just call me, ‘Luke’ cause it looks like I’ve fallen short.

            Far, far, far, short.

          • Helot,

            Your comment is there (https://ericpetersautos.com/2014/09/14/sports-fans/#comment-436768). It is just in the cue awaiting moderation.

            I won’t quote it all

            Seems to me you Have defended the obsession/worship of football players.
            “So sue me” you wrote.
            Relaxation/escape, you claimed.

            If you replaced the phrase, ‘football team’ with the phrase, ‘Devil Worshipers’ (certarius paribus) would you be so keen to, ‘fantasy league’ them, or to watch them and claim to be a part of them?

          • So if you’re logged-in you can see the “awaiting moderation”?

            On most blogs I can see that, “awaiting moderation”.

            Not on this one.

            Lemme test without the asterisks.

            I guess I’m impatient tonight.

            Usually, I’m Mr. Patient Extraordinaire.

            Anyway,Thanks for the inside scoop, Mithrandir.

          • Helot,
            Glad to let you know that your writing is not lost (assuming it gets approved)
            If you sign in, you can see the following in the comments area:
            All | Pending (9) | Approved | Spam (110) | Trash (1)

            Currently there are nine (9) posts pending. If approved then everyone can see them.

            Although it an be an inconvenience to log in, it is easier to reply to other comments and your posts usually are not held up awaiting approval from Dom or Eric.

            • Exactly, Mith!

              I found three of Helot’s posts in the moderation queue this morning awaiting approval.

              I’ve begged people to register. It would make things easier all around….

          • @Helot- I don’t see a 1 to 1 comparison between football players and devil worshippers. Not the same thing.

            “My team”… meh…. I’m not sure if I even use that phrase or not. I think terminology is a weak way of determining this though, I’m sure everyone here has slipped into saying “we” bombed Iraq at least once… or at least I have, and there’s no way I actually believe it.

            Maybe you all are just better than me, lol.

            BTW: I said an hour a WEEK, not a day…

            • Hi David,

              I personally don’t like or care about sports – as something to watch or follow. For the same reason I don’t care about or follow the doings of the Kardashians.

              But the watching and following – as such – is not despicable. Silly and pointless, perhaps… but whatever. We all have done silly and pointless things.

              It’s the way these sports have become a means of deadening people’s minds (and souls), fostering state-worship and militarism. The promotion of thuggery (and stupidity) via the elevation of physical performance on the field uber alles.

              And – as another poster deftly pointed out – it’s hard to fathom how any liberty-minded person could overlook the grotesque rent-seeking of the NFL and NBA, et al. The way you and I and others are forced to pay taxes to “help” build a new stadium; or the “incentives” given to a team to locate in your area.

          • @Eric- So true. That’s ultimately what it comes down to. Watching is absolutely pointless, not good or evil, just a form of entertainment. But the tax subsidies and state worship that go with it are extremely harmful.

            I haven’t actually watched a whole game in awhile (I believe I only watched the first half of the last superbowl because it was such a blowout, and then part of the 4th quarter) but whatever statism I would be exposed to were I to do so would be far more likely to tick me off than to brainwash me. I know that’s not true for most people, but it is true for me.

          • Dear David,

            I intended to spend some time and make some links so you could see what I see, as, a clear thing.
            But I’ve run out of motivation, either you see it, or, you don’t?

            “Football games are battles. Players are troops.” …

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/charles-stampul/how-football-explains-america/

            “This is my sadness. Our children are being weaned on hatred and violence in this country. It starts with television, gets reinforced and is refined with violent video games (one, in particular, produced and distributed by the U.S. Army), and finally the infection spreads through violent team sports in high school. Football in the South is the battlefield training ground for the next generation of cannon fodder. Kids are told to go out there and “hurt ‘em, tear ‘em up, kill ‘em.” It is ingrained. […]

            He had somehow developed enough hatred to override his sense of right and wrong, and any teaching of love of fellow man.” …

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/2005/08/tom-engelhardt/an-immoral-war-in-microcosm/

            Do Devil worshipers teach about Love of their fellow man?
            Do football players or fans do this during the game?
            Where IS the Prince of Peace in the hearts of either one?
            What Are their goals?

            So long as they practice the N.A.P., I guess I should ignore them.
            But one thing is for sure, I won’t join them.
            The problem is, all too many others, are.

            “You too, Brutus?”

            …Did you really read the links I posted? …And after All That, you can Still say an hour a week is different from an hour a day?
            Whoa.

            And as to eric’s conclusion, “But the watching and following – as such – is not despicable.”

            Dude, it’s training to subjugate The People in favor of The Empire.
            It’s all about training the mighty to obey the whistle of an emperor at the helm and getting the populace to expect just That! What’s Not despicable about that!?
            You decry ‘a god’ being your master because he holds the keys of life and death over you yet you have this take about those humans who would take the reins of the young people (often they are unwilling and clueless) as if they were horses to be driven off a cliff, all the while saying, “it’s Not despicable”?

            [Insert seldom mentioned brain damaged football player, here x. …as if they were a goal for young people to work towards.]

            Mang, I soo don’t, ‘get you’. …What was that you were saying in the article about TV premonitioning the future (RE: Hilary as Tea Leon)?
            [Dang. That article disappeared off the front page fast.]

            Anyway, I’m sure the spectators in the stands at the Roman Coliseums had this take on things too: “Watching is absolutely pointless, not good or evil, just a form of entertainment. […] I believe I only watched the first half of the last [lion killing of Christians/fire bombing of the Vietnamese/Dresden] because it was such a blowout, and then part of the 4th quarter”…

            IMHO, football on the TeeVee should piss you off, and perhaps even enrage you, for what it represents.

            Warmongers extraordinaire, on display.

            Sure, the players and the viewers are not forced to be there, for the most part, but ask yourself, why do they all wanna, revolution”Kill, kill, kill.”?

          • Whoops, that last link was MISS-directed, certainly.

            Crap! The Fucking Gestapo, er I mean, NSA HomeLand Lame Ass SUckUp Security goons will be smashing my door in any minute now.

            I really should quit this commenting gig.

            When I wrote, “Kill, kill, kill”, I meant this:

            Alice’s Restaurant.

          • One last thing for the night.

            I tried registering to this website twice, maybe three times.

            You begged me to register, but It was like you guys didn’t Love me or something, and my email box was empty the next day.

            Is this how chicks feel when they get stood up?
            I feel so violated.

            I’m sure it was a system error.

            [..Can you blame me for Not trying a fourth time?] Ha!

          • @helot – Wars? We don’t need no stinking wars. The Party needs war. Just ask Halliburton, Lockheed, Xe Services and Emmanuel Goldstein

  16. Eric,

    I absolutely love your rants against football! It’s the sport I love to hate!

    I work in an office where, during football season, it’s all that is talked about – who is playing, who won, and who bets can be placed on.

    Anytime football is mentioned on the news at home, I roll my eyes and look heaven-ward because I do not want another football season to start. It goes without saying that my wife is grateful that I do not sit on the couch all weekend and watch fuuuutball….

    Even at church I have to hear it: “Brethren, who is your favorite football team?” When I say “Not a single one – I hate the sport”, you’d think I’d just walked off an alien spaceship with the looks I get.

    Your comments are spot on, and I commend you for them.

    • Oh, and I meant to add: Have you noticed the ridiculous amount of time that is spent on each game? Not only is that game itself hideously long, but then they add to that the pre-game coach’s show, the pre-game show, the post game show, the post-game coach’s show, and the post-game call-in show (I hear this one on the radio a lot).

      Who in god’s name has 23 hours in a day to waste on this garbage?

      • Michael, I just read an article with the breakdown of the time spent covering the actual play time. It was something like 4 minutes or maybe a couple more but that’s close. They spent a fair amount of time covering replays. I used to watch the game with my best friend since he’s gaga for it. I’d point out how drastically the game had changed since before commercial break since the commercials lasted a few minutes into play time each break. Hard to figure out what’s going on when you see limited parts. I think that’s why there is so much replay time, covering their asses after using play time to show ads.

  17. For years, the popularity of fantasy football grew slowly. In 1997, CBS launched the beta version of the first publicly available free fantasy football website. The game immediately became widely popular. Within three years, all major sports media websites launched competing fantasy football hosting websites. The NFL released their own official game in 2010, NFL.com Fantasy Football, further driving industry growth. Fantasy football is now the single most important marketing tool for the NFL. Today, it is estimated over 19 million people compete in public and private leagues online nationally. (Wikipedia)

    Just think, 19 million American men spending a lot of time screaming at their computer & smart phone screens all week long over a shared meaningless fantasy.

    • Yup!

      And the truly pathetic aspect is it’s not even their got-damned fantasy! They are fantasizing about what other men are “doing” in this hypothetical fantasy world.

      At least a Dungeons & Dragons geek is pretending he’s the wizard.

      • Ever see LARP? (live action role play). It’s like a D&D version of a Civil War re-enactment. Much more physical activity than couch planted sports fans. LARP probably requires good acting skills and learning some fighting skills to do well.

      • Let’s consider it from another angle.

        Would you engage in “fantasy” play with the “teams” in federal prison? People will normally try to avoid thugs who engage in vicious physical assaults, rapes, animal torture and murder. But somehow, when they also happen to be athletes, these execrable actions become afterthoughts.

        If Ray Rice wasn’t a fuhhhhhhhhhhhhhttttttball player, would you welcome him into your home? Be pleased he’s dating your sister?

        • I’ve never welcomed a football player into my home (Well, really my parents). I’m not defending the people you’re talking about. But fantasy football has nothing, literally nothing, to do with a player’s actions off the field. It has to do with correctly predicting which players will do well. Mind you, like anything, it can become obsessive. But there’s nothing immoral per say about it, nor with watching football.

          I more or less agree with your point, as I’ve said, but I don’t take it as far as you do. You seem like you have a problem with anyone who even cares about professional football. I have a problem with people who are overly obsessed with it and don’t give proper care to other things, like the things you’ve mentioned.

      • Hi David,

        My issue here is not with your activity per se. I also (like most people) have diversions that aren’t “productive” and which might justifiably be regarded by someone else as silly or a waste of time.

        My issue is with supporting the sick cult of “sports” in any way. A bunch of friends getting together for a game of pick-up football – that’s healthy and normal. A dad cheering his son’s high school team. Ok.

        But what I’m talking about is the deification of sports. The demented disproportionality of the thing. The way “the game” has become news. Literally inescapable. The topic of conversation everywhere you go. The thing that occupies – distracts and addles – almost the entire country, as the country slouches ever closer to becoming an outright police state.

        The way it coddles and nurtures and thus increases thuggery and nihilism – and not just among the players but also the population.

        It has turned the country into a nation of fools.

        And that’s why I loathe it so.

        • I guess I’m in an unusual environment in that I don’t really know anyone who’s ultra-obsessed with sports. The kinds of people you’re talking about aren’t the kinds of people I associate with on a daily basis. Its not that I purposely avoid them (justifiable though that may be) its just that those aren’t the circles I’m in.

          That may affect my perception. I’m exposed to way more troop and cop worship than I am football worship. And, I’ve managed to avoid the worst of the former, most of the time (in person, at any rate.)

  18. Pit bull isn’t just a breed of dog anymore. Seems like an awful lot of self-righteous jihadi conservative muslim attack people are out struttin on their self-made leashes in al-a-meriKa these days.

    If you present the musings of Boobus and Prince Salman Saud alongside each other in identical vernacular, I don’t see how you could tell one from the other anymore.

    Michael Vick Attacked By Pitbull
    http://www.thenewsnerd.com/sports/michael-vick-attacked-by-pitbull/

    Comments; Teeth-Bearings; Low Growls of the Pitbull Peoples responding to this raw meat article –

    karyn • a month ago
    How can u forget he tortured electrocuted and killed dogs I hope he breaks his neck right on the field he’s a pos. Karma will get him someday

    Amanda • 3 months ago
    Haha id adopt this dog and name it karma. He got what was coming to him.

    Mary Den Dulk Van de Hoef • a month ago
    He deserves more than been bitten for what he did to those beautifull dogs he is a killer and he deserves to stay in jail for it

    Ruth • 23 days ago
    I don’t wish Michael Vick any ill will, I do wish that someday he becomes a decent, feeling, empathetic human being and realizes what he did and does something good for all the animals that are suffering, or have suffered abuse.

    UseLogic • 21 days ago
    This is a classic case of an eye for an eye. I’m sorry but people that take part in animal cruelty or child abuse are the worst scum of the earth. Probably a dog that escaped his torture and came back for revenge. #wishfulthinking.

    karyn’s mom karyn • a month ago
    stop hating. Karma awarded him with a $100 million dollar deal from the Eagles a year after he was released from jail. obviously God doesn’t hate him as much as you hate him. move on with your pathetic life and stop worrying about this man almost 8 years after the crime he committed. he served his time. he’s moved on with his life it’s time for you to do the same.

    Penance karyn’s mom • a month ago
    Thats not karma, that is the vile money making machine that is professional sports. A corporate machine that allows, murderers, pedophiles, wife beaters, drug dealers and dog torturers a free pass, because, money. No one that cares about animals and is concerned with the pathology of people who brutalise them for fun and money, is going to EVER let this psychopath, or his sick fans, forget.

    Teresa Schier Payne • 22 days ago
    How funny!!! Serves him right!!

    Rudy2d • 2 months ago
    Too bad the story’s a spoof–would that a PitBull had ripped his throat out. I’d probably do it myself if given the means.

    marcia Rudy2d • a month ago
    We could only hope and pray this story was true. And that the leg gets severely infected and has to be amputated. Disgusting excuse for a human being. Why did he get out of jail early any way? Vile “human”.

    Christine Adams • 2 months ago
    I hope and pray that dog ruins his football career. That’s karma. That dog knew what a scumbag he was and what he did to all those innocent animals. I hope he gets a leg infection and it goes systemic.

    Jude Anne Gossin • 2 months ago
    THIS HAD TO HAVE BEEN THE GHOST OF ONE OF THE PITBULLS HE KILLED.

    jermone hands • 7 days ago
    This is the best news I heard all day, might have been a family member of one of the dogs he killed, glad it took 10 minutes to get the dog pried from his leg, wish it was he’s neck, he should not be in the NFL and never was a good QB to begin with, just a sub human weasel dog killer!!!!!

    LeVar Alexander • a month ago
    The story is a spoof, but it’s amazing how people don’t want to let go of something that not only happened about seven or so years ago but that he went to jail for and lost almost everything for. But, that is not enough for some folks who are just as bloodthirsty as Vick and his boys were when they were dogfighting. Mike was not the only one that has done this act; he was just the only high profile person that has gotten arrested and jailed for it. Despite Vick, it still goes on in many deep and dark places of this country called the USA.

    Once again, I find it amazing how emotional people get over this yet said nothing when Donte Stallworth struck and killed a whole human being around the same time or shortly after, murderers and pedophiles walk freely in our neighborhoods and we are affected by other societal ills.

    People love theirs dogs and what Vick did was wrong, but wishing harm and death on him makes you just as bad and once again, as bloodthirsty as Vick & company were when they did what they did. Two wrongs have and never will make a right.

    Penance LeVar Alexander • a month ago
    I agree, professional sports is FULL of pedophiles, wife beaters, murderers, women beaters and all kinds of vile, disgusting human beings.

    Marc Backes LeVar Alexander • a month ago
    Alexander, I completely agree with you in every point!

    Pete Saites • 3 months ago
    I want to adopt that dog.
    I have no sympathy whatsoever for Michael Vick. He deserves the same treatment those poor, innocent dogs received. Shame on our justice system and shame on the NFL.

    Johnny Walker • 3 months ago
    You people are something. This man went to jail did his time got out and continued to talk to kids about not going down the same path he went down. So we continue to crucify him for being a product of his environment and being human, making mistakes. Its people like you that hung jesus on the cross. After he had been beaten and mocked the people said thats not good enough, he deserves more, crucify him. So i ask you what more does vick deserve. How can we ask god for foregiveness when we ourselves wont foregive our brothers for their errors?

    jon Johnny Walker • 3 months ago
    Johnny, are you serious? A mistake is throwing the ball into double coverage, or turning left when he should’ve turned right. No, Vick made a choice, in fact he made a choice well over 100 times to beat, burn, electrocute and drown innocent dogs. He deserves the worst. The NFL should be ashamed of paying this pos anything

    Beth Kinsey Johnny Walker • 2 months ago
    I fully expect for him to be hosed down…electrocuted…have his flesh torn from him violently…have his teeth yanked from his mouth…kicked…punched…beaten…drowned…repeatedly slammed into the ground until his back and neck are broken…then shot in the head. That is exactly what I expect from him sir! Only then will I feel as he has “done his time”!

    Alli Johnny Walker • 3 months ago
    Your compairing this disgusting human being to Jesus. Are you out of your freaking mind? Jesus tried to unite people with a different state of mind. Not kill innocent animals to make a few bucks. Pocket change for someone like micheal vick. He didn’t need the money he did it for sport. He is a sick individual, and should not be allowed to play sports and the fine should be 75 percent of his income for a charity for animals harmed in fighting. You sir are an idiot.

    Doreen Bauer • 3 months ago
    If only life always worked like this. I have no pitty for the man. I pitty the poor animal and his situation. May he who rapes be raped.

    – Indeed PitBull Doreen. A bite for a bite. A rape for a rape. Woof Woof Grrrrr.

    • What’s so bad is “pit bull” used to be a small bulldog type of dog that was hell on wheels in rat killing. As with everything, some claimed “their” dog was better and so contests were born, pits full of rats, what dog could kill them fastest, etc. Of course any animal including people who are encouraged to kill get more aggressive doing so. A couple of dogs that were really fired up on their rat killing couldn’t be expected to openly let another kill their rat so a dog fight ensued. People later forgot about the rats and just fought the dogs. I love pit bulls because they’re so smart and up for anything, extremely physically capable. CJ is just the type of dog times 3 that originated rat killing. He kills larger things but not nearly as much as other dogs we’ve had. He’s smart and knows what is off-limits(cats, horses, cows, pigs)and doesn’t take them on for the most part(try as hard as I can, I cannot break him of wanting to kill pigs just as I can’t break other breeds of same, something about pigs and dogs). The breed, like everything else, evolved. We’d still be killing rats but not in a pit if it were left to me and dogs would never have been fought. Now pit bulls get an undeserved bad rap because of bad people. In my part of the world, for a hundred years old ranch and farm dogs were commonly pit bulls. They could take care of vermin and varmints and protect the kids. You’d see Petey’s descendants everywhere you’d go and they pretty much acted like Petey. Now we have 80 lb. Petey’s and the ignorant look at them in fear, the statists make laws against them and this year, the Supreme Court of this USA made what is probably one of their few good rulings, the outlawing of outlawing specific breed dogs.

      I subscribed to Playboy magazine for years because it was the only mainstream rag I could find with libertarian type leanings. It ended abruptly in the 80’s when they ran a very stupid, untrue story about a pit bull with one entire page devoted to a drawing of the meanest looking dog you can imagine with blood dripping from his teeth(canine teeth as fangs) as if this is how a pit bull normally looks. So long Hugh. I know football is being played constantly but I hardly even know team names much less players. If my wife didn’t read Yahoo I’d most likely be totally ignorant of anything about it, oh, and my old college buds discussing it. There was an e from one this week-end speaking of our old alma mater’s team and a reply from another and another reply about still another team and then a reply from another person saying he’d done some things, had some fun, hadn’t seen hide nor hair or even thought of football. I concurred. I had thought of it though, since it was on several big screen tv’s in the restaurant we stopped in. I don’t think they’re in the main part but we were in the bar where it’s quieter and the sound isn’t on any of the tv’s. Now if we could get them to show the same good movie with sound on all those monitors I’d be up for that. But then one person’s “good” movie is anathema to the other so just remove the tv’s and everybody could simply converse…….or be caught up in their cell phones. Amazing how a family of 4 can go somewhere to eat and never say a word to each other nor look at each other, all caught up in their cellphone world. Wish I’d invented it so I could afford to go somewhere I’d never have to see another one.

      • Hindsight edit.

        I used pit bull in the common meaningless buzzscare sense, akin to assault rifle, which is pisspoor. I’d should really address the canisphere more intelligently.

        Pitbulls/ratcatchers are unjustly maligned in much the same way Brits/Catholics historically call nearly everyone else around them Barbarians, which is equally as useless.

        To the woods with all the fluffy cal about Barbarians, and pitbulls and all the dog “breeds” and dog tricks. Much of the so called domestication could also be called enstupidation. Fortunately there’s a long deep scientific record of all the things these wunderbeasts have done for us. It’s clear there’d be a lot less of us and a lot more australopitheci type rock and spear chuckers without ’em.

        Back in the day, canines were every bit the vital components of the advanced familyclan as were the feminines, the wives. I’d go so far as to say a complete man needs his fellow kindred species equines, felines, avians, and the like about everybit as much as he needs a mate.

        We’ve jumped the sharks and over-de-barbarianed. Way over. We’re swimming in poisons and toxins beyond all reason. A man competing with rats and other competitors is better able to hone and stay sharp. Living in sad little roach motel room with nothing but Dow Chemical Hydrocarbons around you is not progress. It’s pathetic.

        Odoacer
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odoacer
        Foederati
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foederati

        1-6 Barbarians – The Savage Goths (barbarians = don’t cut their hair)
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEDrOtNAZ2U

        Who were the ancient goths
        http://www.livescience.com/45948-ancient-goths.html

        Cell phones are part of the war on Dominion. People are dog tired of being barked at and forced to do this that or the other. So they’re all on strike and staring into the electron abyss out of spite and lack of martial reasoning.

        A brazen act of war and defiance against anyone who they perceive as their enemy. If everyone around you not working for a tip or asking for a handout is otherwise buried in a cell phone, its a clear signal that you are the Soviets in this long cold war of the Eyes & Ears.

        Most of science is engaged at looking at dead stuff. Below this is a long slog about dead dogs and dead dogology. Why not do the science with the living dogs? They’d be up for it.

        Who knows what kind of super-reality we could create for ourselves if we re-engage with all the animals around us and once again take the lead in cooperating and specializing. The possibillities are endless. I’d much rather be giving algorithmic and computational commands to a smart dog, than typing on hydrocarbon alphanumeric keys all day to a smart hunk of dead plastic and silicon.

        Ancient DNA Evidence for Old World Origin of New World Dogs
        Mitochondrial DNA sequences isolated from ancient dog remains from Latin America and Alaska showed that native American dogs originated from multiple Old World lineages of dogs that accompanied late Pleistocene humans across the Bering Strait.

        One clade of dog sequences was unique to the New World, which is consistent with a period of geographic isolation. This unique clade was absent from a large sample of modern dogs, which implies that European colonists systematically discouraged the breeding of native American dogs.

        The dog is the only domesticated species that was distributed across Eurasia and the Americas before the development of transoceanic travel during the 15th century. Genetic, morphologic, and behavioral studies (1–5) have shown that domestic dogs derive from the gray wolf (Canis lupus), a species that has a holarctic distribution.

        Therefore, domestic dogs were either brought to the New World by late Pleistocene humans crossing the Bering Strait from Asia or were domesticated in the New World independently from gray wolves. A New World domestication of dogs is supported by morphological (1) and limited genetic data (6). Further, the antiquity of dog and human remains in the New World suggests independent Old and New World domestication events.

        The oldest dog remains in the New World, from Danger Cave, Utah (7), are dated from 9000 to 10,000 years before the present (yr B.P.) and compare with the earliest dates of about 12,000 to 14,000 yr B.P. for dog remains from archaeological sites in Germany, Israel, and Iraq (8–10). The arrival of humans in North America occurred by at least 12,000 to 14,000 yr B.P. (11, 12) and therefore was coincident with or predated the first appearance of dogs in the archaeological record. Consequently, native American dogs are likely to have derived from American wolves.

        Modern New World dogs are of questionable use in determining their origin, because native American dogs likely interbred with dogs brought by European colonists and ultimately may have been replaced by them (13, 14). Consequently, we extracted DNA from bones of 37 dog specimens from archaeological sites in Mexico, Peru, and Bolivia that were deposited before the arrival of Columbus in the New World (15).

        To compare our sequences to those from previous studies, we focused on a 257-bp fragment of the control region that was homologous to sequences from 140 dogs obtained from 67 diverse dog breeds (5) and to sequences from 259 wolves obtained from 30 localities worldwide (16). When just this fragment was considered, the ancient Latin American sequences defined 11 haplotypes. Twenty-five additional homologous dog sequences were found in GenBank, which yielded five new haplotypes. Almost all modern dogs were sampled in the Old World, and most corresponded to breeds originating there. The few sequences from breeds of New World origin (the Eskimo dog, Mexican hairless, Alaskan husky, Newfoundland, and Chesapeake Bay retriever) and from Oceania (the Australian dingo and the New Guinea singing dog) were indistinguishable from those of Eurasian dogs (5).

        Sample source, locality, age, and haplotype, based on a 257-bp segment of the mitochondrial control region A phylogenetic tree based on the 257-bp sequences (15) (Fig. 1) showed that the ancient American dog sequences clustered within two of the four previously defined dog clades (5). Ten of the pre-Columbian American dog haplotypes were clustered in clade I, and one sequence from Tula, Mexico [PC 13 (Table 1)], was clustered in clade IV. Clade I is the most diverse clade of dog sequences and comprises about 80% of dog haplotypes, including the Australian dingo, the New Guinea singing dog, the African basenji, the greyhound, and other ancient breeds. American gray wolf sequences (Fig. 1, lu28 to lu33 in blue) are not clustered with those from dogs and differ by 3 to 13 bp from the ancient American dog sequences. Three of the ancient sequences are identical to those observed in Eurasian dogs, and none differs by more than 5 bp (Fig. 1). However, when the sequence of the entire 425-bp segment from ancient samples is compared to over 350 modern dog sequences of different lengths (17), only the pre-Columbian sequence from sample PC13 is identical to one found in modern dogs (haplotype D6). These results suggest that New and Old World dogs are derived from Eurasian wolves.

        Neighbor-joining tree of sequences from precontact dogs from Latin America (purple) and Alaska (green) and modern dogs [black, prefix D, for sequences from (5), or GenBank accession numbers], Eurasian wolves [black, prefix lu, from (16)], and American wolves [blue, prefix lu, from (16)]. Coyotes [black, prefix la, from (16)] are used as an outgroup. Previously defined clades of dogs (5) are indicated with red branches. Clade arefers to a group of dog sequences unique to the New World. Haplotypes shared between modern and ancient dogs are marked with an asterisk.

        Our pre-Columbian samples were from Latin America, where gray wolves are rare or absent. Consequently, we obtained remains from the permafrost deposits of Alaska, where gray wolves were abundant in the past and could provide a source for domestication and interbreeding (1). These deposits often yield relatively well-preserved DNA from specimens as old as 50,000 years (18). However, the 11 dog remains that we tested dated between 1450 and 1675 C.E., and thus most postdate the first arrival of European colonists in the New World (Table 1). Nevertheless, all of these dog remains were deposited before the first sighting of Alaska by Europeans (by Vitus Bering and Aleksey Chirikov in 1741) and thus should represent pure native American dogs. Based on the 257-bp sequence, we found 8 haplotypes in 11 samples. Five are unique, whereas three are shared with modern domestic dogs [D1, D3, and D18 (Fig. 1)]. All ancient Alaskan dog sequences possess clade I haplotypes (Fig. 1, green).

        To better visualize the relationship of modern and ancient dog sequences from clade I, we created a statistical parsimony network where haplotypes can occupy nodes and where each branch represents a single nucleotide substitution or an insertion or deletion (15) (Fig. 2). This network shows that haplotype D28, found in ancient samples from Bolivia, is ancestral to a clade of unique New World haplotypes and differs from them by one or two substitutions. Haplotypes D36, found in ancient Alaskan dogs, or D2, a common haplotype in Old World dogs, are putatively ancestral to this endemic New World clade that we designate as clade a(Fig. 2). The statistical parsimony network suggests that the remaining ancient sequences might be derived from the common haplotypes D2, D3, D9, and D26 (Fig. 2) (5). Further, an additional lineage must be derived from the clade IV haplotype D6 (Fig. 1). Consequently, our phylogenetic analysis suggests that minimally, about five founding dog lineages (including the ancestor of cladea) invaded North America with humans as they colonized the New World. Further, the presence of the unique haplotype group (clade a) derived from New World haplotype D28 is consistent with a history of isolation (19).

        Figure 2
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        Figure 2
        Statistical parsimony cladogram of precontact Latin American (gray), Alaskan (black), and modern (white) dog haplotypes from clade I (5). Modern sequences from (5) are labeled D, and other sequences from GenBank are labeled with their accession number. Each branch represents a 1-bp change or indel, and dots represent hypothetical haplotypes.

        Analysis of ancient sequences from New World dog remains from localities as distant as Peru and Alaska supports the hypothesis that ancient and modern dogs worldwide share a common origin from Old World gray wolves. Our results differ from those of a previous study (6) that reported sequences closely related to New World wolves in four of five dog remains associated with native Americans in British Columbia. This finding could represent localized interbreeding between domestic dogs and North American wolves, as suggested by morphologic (20, 21) and historic (13, 21) data. However, our data suggest that widespread introgression of female wolf matrilines into the native dog population occurred infrequently, because all sequences from ancient native dogs were well differentiated from those found in North American wolves. Similarly, extant North American gray wolves show no genetic evidence of interbreeding with dogs, despite the high concentration of dogs in many areas occupied by gray wolves (22). Hybridization is occasionally observed in Europe, where dogs are common and gray wolves are rare (23).

        Six of 12 ancient Latin American haplotypes are grouped in cladea and include sequences found in dog remains from Bolivia, Peru, and Mexico (Fig. 1). No sequences from clade a have been found in samples from over 350 modern dogs (17). The upper bound of a 95% confidence limit for the frequency that sequences from clade a could have in this modern sample and be missed (an observed frequency of zero) is 1.0% (24). Consequently, the absence of cladea sequences from modern dogs suggests an extensive replacement of native American dogs by those introduced by Europeans. These lineages could be surviving in some unsurveyed modern Native American breeds or local dog populations (14,25). However, genetic analysis of a diverse sample of 19 Mexican hairless dogs (xoloitzcunitle), a distinct ancient breed that has been present in Mexico for over 2000 years (25), only revealed mtDNA sequences previously observed in dogs of Eurasian origin (26). The absence of ancient North and South American dog haplotypes from a large diversity of modern breeds, including the Mexican hairless, illustrates the considerable impact that invading Europeans had on native cultures.

        Our data strongly support the hypothesis that ancient American and Eurasian domestic dogs share a common origin from Old World gray wolves. This implies that the humans who colonized America 12,000 to 14,000 yr B.P. brought multiple lineages of domesticated dogs with them. The large diversity of mtDNA lineages in the dogs that colonized the New World implies that the ancestral population of dogs in Eurasia was large and well mixed at that time. Consequently, dogs, in association with humans or through trade, spread across Europe, Asia, and the New World soon after they were domesticated. Alternatively, if domestication was a more ancient event, as suggested by previous genetic results (5), human groups that first colonized the subarctic mammoth steppe of Siberia may have had dogs with them 26,000 to 19,000 yr B.P. (11). If the archaeological date of 12,000 to 14,000 yr B.P. for first domestication is accepted, the dog, as an element of culture, would have had to be transmitted across Paleolithic societies on three continents in a few thousand years or less. This would imply extensive intercultural exchange during the Paleolithic (27, 28). Regardless, the common origin of New and Old World dogs demands a reconsideration of the relationship between humans and dogs in ancient societies.

        • Tor, thanks. That was very informative and added even more to what I already knew of canines, a great deal more. I’ll try to add as much of this to CJ’s knowledge base as I can. He’s a great listener.

          I’m a lover of animals, moreso of the quadruped than the biped it would seem. They must share my affection since I can look around at night and see 7-8 cats sharing my and CJ’s bed. It would seem they trust me too since there’s a whole litter of grown cats I can pick up by their belly skin and walk around with them…and they never break their purr. A tiny kitten earlier used a chair back to jump to my back while I looked in the crisper on the fridge, ran up to my shoulders and jumped to the cabinet that he normally can’t reach. I wasn’t sure if I should feel wanted or used. Tell me that’s not deductive reasoning though.

  19. Feigning ignorance (or real ignorance, either way) is a good way to stop someone from haranguing you about sports. For example, a co-worker once asked me if I was going to watch “the big game.” I asked who was playing. He said it was the Packers and the Ravens (or some such). My reply was “That sounds really interesting. What sport will they be playing?” He never bugged me about sports again.

    • Dear Mike,

      LOL!

      It’s amazing. Think about how much The Government costs us in what truly matters. Our lives. Our liberty. Our property.

      Yet all these clowns want to talk about is which lunkhead made the most touchdowns? And when we don’t want to talk about that, they think we’re the clueless ones. What a laugh.

      • @Bevin- Yep. And these same people get upset with me when I don’t seriously consider their arguments for the State. People ask me if there’s any way I could be convinced that their (statist) views were correct. No, there isn’t. They see this as arrogant.

        I’m getting tired, and I’m still very young. I’m tired of trying to save people from themselves, trying to save our country from uncaring people who think I’m obnoxious. Even I need a break from politics occasionally. I’ll willingly not bring up sports around you guys, we have better stuff to talk about anyway. But I’ll also feel no guilt for cheering for my team and running my fantasy football team. Its fun, and I enjoy it. Sue me.

        • Everyone needs a break sometimes. I’m not much into sports, the only one I know anything about at all is baseball. I don’t follow it much but occasionally enjoy going to a game with friends.

          Football and the rest I just don’t have any interest in. When people start blathering to me about their favorite team or the “big game” I’ll ask “Oh, are they playing the Mets?” and that usually puts a stop to it.

          RAMBLER – the Official Car of the Mets (1965)

          • Jason, I couldn’t agree more. And that’s why I thought you stopped working, got cleaned up and have a few cold ones and gave the ladies everything you could so everybody would get a break. Maybe I’m old fashioned but the best break is with the opposite sex and you’re both having a good time. Copulation isn’t the absolute necessity but it sure beats televised sports….and I never recalled saying ‘I love you” to the “team”. I’m sure some do/have though.

          • Dear Jason,

            Leaving the hero-worship aside, baseball strikes a non-sports fan like me as much less offensive than “fuuutbaaaaal!.”

            Many argue that baseball is an individual sport that only occasionally requires teamwork.

            Baseball is a individual sport that masquerades as a team sport. Think of it like this. Getting your stats and playing selfish in baseball does nothing but help your team. If you do that in a sport like football or basketball you could hurt your team.

            See thread:
            Is baseball really a “team” game or individual?
            http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/is-baseball-really-a-team-game-or-individual-1358595/index2.html

            Football is obviously modeled on warfare on a battlefield.

            Baseball? Not so much.

            PS: I rather liked the Clint Eastwood film “Trouble with the Curve.”

  20. Any man who does not care about “the game” is viewed with suspicion; he is at a disadvantage, socially and professionally. Hence, there is tremendous pressure to care very much about “the game.”

    I have suffered this. I haven’t followed sports in any relevant detail since 1985. Yes, 1985. I wasn’t even old enough to legally drive at the time. The last sports I watched on my own? The white sox world series playoffs and WS. I figured it wouldn’t happen again in my lifetime so I could watch a little baseball. The TV announcers were so bad I turned off the sound and used the radio. Anyway this has left me without much conversational topic with co-wokers, bosses, boss’s bosses, etc over the years at different points.

    Socially… well that too… because dating requires participating in the social activities of the culture as _expected_ not necessarily as desired although some women are into the sports too. Foregoing the sports isn’t a good idea. Now with the TSA style stuff coming to pro sports I see no reason ever to attend a game again.

    • “Any man who does not care about “the game” is viewed with suspicion; he is at a disadvantage, socially and professionally. ”

      Not to mention golf as part of the dealing-making process in many businesses.

      I guess in its favor, golf is at least an individual game/sport.

      • Bevin, I had to go for an MRI Sat. in a nearby large town(city?….not so near). We shopped a bit for necessities, food, beer, tools and then went to a restaurant for some grub(good grub too). We chose the bar(always), got a table and sat down to drink. There were numerous big screen tv’s and they had numerous football games on. Neither my wife nor I had a clue as to who the teams were or what the scores were but we found out our waitresses(April)soon to be daughter weighed a pound, her name is Kalene(a combo of mother and grandmother, west Tx. names)and when she’s due. I expressed my desire for some really hot sauce to my wife and suddenly(we weren’t even aware of it), we had some habaneros sauce at our table via April. No doubt some football was played and some were winners and some losers but we couldn’t tell you who or where. Without any of this knowledge, life went on, ours, April’s, Kalene’s and a great many other people we hope. I could get on a diatribe of the NCAA and pro sports but I’d rather not….thinking of those young men who’ll never walk again or be able to speak….and took one for the TEAM.

        • Dear 8sm,

          I think I mentioned this before, but the way you write is very “New Journalism.” Tom Wolfe writes that way. Journalism, i.e., news reporting, but with an air of philosophical bemusement.

          In case you’re wondering, that’s a good thing. Really lets you feel as if you are there, taking in all the sights and sounds, and even more importantly, the local atmosphere.

          Re: organized sports, specifically team sports involving balls of whatever shape and weight, they truly are utterly irrelevant aren’t they?

          I watch these Hollywood sports movies about some underdog team that goes on to become “State Champions.” The end titles often inflate the importance of their “victory.” We are assured that because they got one more basket or touchdown or home run than the other team, their lives were not lived in vain.

          Of course the film never mentions how the other team feels at that same moment. Are they destined to be “losers” for the rest of their lives merely because their “star” missed the critical basket or touchdown or hit just before the buzzer sounded? Because they failed to give 110%, 24/7?

          Amazing what a society can be inculcated into considering “normal.”

          • Well said Bevin,

            I’d say something similarly defining and elegant about your writing style as well. But I’m not eloquent in that way. I just know I really like your unique way of writing. And acht Süden Mann; octo austri hominis; 8SM; bah Nán rén;’s writing too of course

          • Dear Tor,

            Ditto!

            Sometimes I scroll up the page instead of down. Did you know I can always tell, without fail, it the comment is yours? I kid you not.

            We each have our unique style.

            In the mid-1920s, [classical composer George] Gershwin stayed in Paris for a short period of time, during which he applied to study composition with the noted Nadia Boulanger who, along with several other prospective tutors such as Maurice Ravel, rejected him. They were afraid that rigorous classical study would ruin his jazz-influenced style.[25] Maurice Ravel’s rejection letter to Gershwin told him, “Why become a second-rate Ravel when you’re already a first-rate Gershwin?”

      • Yup!

        If you actually play golf (or some other sport) then it’s a different thing.

        But this weird business of basking in the putative glory of a paid entertainer is… well, weird!

        Think about it: “Trekkies” – people who dress up like Captain Kirk or Mr. Spock and learn Klingon, etc. – get laughed at. Called geeks.

        But men who dress up in the jersey of their favorite team, speak of “we” won …. that’s manly (by the sick standards of this society).

        • Dear Eric,

          Right. I suppose the thing that bothers me the most is the collectivist mindset.

          I see it here on Taiwan among the Taiwan independence crowd. Whenever Major League baseball star Wang Chien-ming or NBA basketball star Jeremy Lin scores big, all of a sudden it’s “Taiwan’s Glory!”

          Taiwan’s Glory my ass. Where were these clowns when Wang or Lin were training 24/7, giving 110%? Did they ever sponsor them while they were struggling in the minors or whatever? Spare me.

        • What’s wrong with dressing up as Captain Kirk or Mr. Spock or learning Klingon or whatever? This society IS sick but I don’t think that’s the reason why.

          Same with D + D which you mentioned earlier. Maybe its weird but I don’t see anything objectively wrong with it.

          I guess I see your point but I just don’t take it as far as you do. There’s something wrong with being overly fanatical about pretty much anything (note: I am aware that etymologically “fan” means “fanatic” but in a connotative sense sometimes it doesn’t) but I don’t see anything wrong with silly entertainment per say, whether its watching a football game or playing dungeons and dragons or dressing up as Mr. Spock. What’s the issue?

          Mind you, I can understand getting ticked off by people who act like there’s something wrong with you because you don’t care about sports, just like most people would agree that it would be silly to act like there’s something wrong with non-trekkies. Sports are definitely overglorified in this country. But you’re acting almost like watching football is a true sin (I know you probably don’t go for the theological terminology, bear with me) like cheating on your wife or getting drunk every night would be. With respect, I think this is silly.

          I think WHATEVER is leading people not to care about the political violence that has become commonplace in this society is a problem, and yes, I’ll include complacent churches in that mix.

          • Such as the church of FUUUHHHTBAAAALLLL???? 😉

            Mamon is not unique. Think of it in those terms, it’ll fit INSTANTLY, sir.
            Legion. Many.
            Not just 7 deadlies.

            Breaking that first commandment, if you will – which Libertarians objectively endorse, even when they are Atheists. They do so with their actions (NAP), rather than the trappings of church, but they de facto follow the commandments… 😉 Funny how that works out!

            (OK, might get some issues with “keep holy the lord’s Sabbath,” but overall, they’ll meet the criteria for Christians better than many “Christians” I have known. )

          • I’ll answer this by letting Bill Shatner answer:

            At one of those conventions, he got annoyed with a Trekkie who posed a question about some minutia of Captain Kirk’s background (as if he were a real person and not a TV character) and testily asked: Have you ever dated a girl? Get a life!

    • Yup.

      And now, increasingly, women are jock-sniffers, too.

      Notice that as men become more passive and effeminate (in particular, white men) women have become more aggressive and macho?

      • Not particularly.

        But I’ve noticed the sports interest. Even if they are lying about it, it causes me to lose interest. If they are going to lie about to attract a guy then I’m the wrong one for them anyway.

    • My father-in-law is a fanatic fan. He gets along much better with my wife’s sister’s husband… who is also a fan.

      Interestingly, they’re both uber liberals. Both would get very huffy if I were to make a “cunt” joke. But they’ll both blank-out when it comes to a fuuuhhhhtttball thug such as Vick or Rice or Rothlisberger…. an animal torturer, wife-beater and probable rapist (in that order).

      • Yes, you can be a fan w/o being a fanATIC. I don’t even have TV any more, but when I did I enjoyed watching an ‘occasional’ sporting event, primarily as mind numbing entertainment. If you want to take a nap, turn on the golf match.

    • Tor,

      Sorry to read about their death, but that song was annoying to me.

      Regarding sports. I can enjoy a sporting event, but it does not hold the same interest that I had when I was a teenager.

      Sports is just a distraction. Maybe if I was paid their ridiculous salaries I would care more about the game.

    • Dear Tor,

      One silver lining to the Illuminati’s exploitation and discarding of sundry no talent pop stars is that at least they aren’t genuine musicians such as opera singers.

      That sounds bad doesn’t it. I take it back. No I don’t.

      • The illuminati is permanent. Occulted. Monolithic.

        The form of the muse, of the performing female objectified subjects is ephemeral.

        The allure of K-op divas decline as they devolve into K-pop devos further deteriorating to K-slop digitized avataresses and the heat death and signal decay of the broadcasts, breads, circuses, and universes.

  21. Sport is a social construct, designed by men to be similar to actual gory battle for land occupation and control when peace has broken out, in order to appease our testosterone gods.

    Not much different to bucks banging heads for control of a harem, but in a more “social” construct where instead of death and destruction, they chase their own balls. I mean, can’t they see it? Pack of wimps. I recall a short book series called “Vardo”, which was a cross between NFL and Rollerball. It was loaded with broken and twisted bodies scattered over the pitch. If they want to do “battle”, do it properly, not pretend.

    It’s like that gawd-awful “Yugioh” cartoon. Why “battle” with card games when you could just shoot or punch the fuck out of the other twit?

    Sport is also a rite of passage. Fathers teach their children to be involved in sports because it’s the manly thing to do, otherwise you’re an outcast.

    When I make new friends or start a new job, I’m always asked what team I barrack for. Invariably I always reply “the promoters”.

    From an early age I found far more interesting things happening through chemistry, science and physics than running after spheroidal leather and plastic objects on an open field (probably representing the girl or kingdom), where everybody else somehow had the same mission – or requirement.

    Barracking for any team eventually becomes pointless. As the years pass, players are bought, sold and retired. The team so feverishly devoted to is no longer the same. Sitting there for hours watching a pointless exercise in money-go-round only serves to remind one of his entrapment in this requirement of social gathering with no intelligent conversation.

    • Dear Rev,

      “Sport is a social construct, designed by men to be similar to actual gory battle for land occupation and control when peace has broken out, in order to appease our testosterone gods.”

      Yes. Remember Norman Schwartzkopf’s football analogies during Desert Storm?

      Could the parallels be any clearer?

    • “Root, root, root for the home team!”
      Isn’t this a big part of what they are ‘teaching’ in the Gunverment Indoctrination Centers? And that includes the Pledge of Allegiance.

      • Not sure….
        What’s the alternative? Root for the U.N.? That’s even worse!

        It’s the IDENTITY, I think, which is being taught – as these are basically internment camps any more, the problem is real and ongoing, and the Home Team has changed from the neighborhood “heros” to a militarized collection of individual enforcers who WANT to tag you out with the bat instead of the ball.
        Far cry from when John was the local track champ and football QB in HS, then went on to be a cop…. He knew half the town at least, and his heart was still devoted to one woman, and his home town.
        Now, the cop MIGHT still have been on football Varsity, but he was likely a lineman instead of QB, and probably aggressive as well, maybe a discispline problem… He wanted what he wanted, and no one’s going to tell him no.
        His idea of Amerika has us all in lock-step, bowing to his supreme benevolence.

        MAJOR difference – and these days, it’s likely he doesn’t KNOW the pledge of Allegiance, let alone that it was based on Socialist Weimar Germany’s idea of making the Ubermenschen. Wouldn’t even believe that the original “salute” of the flag was the Seig Heil! arm outstretched.

        And that’s just the cops – military specifically ensures that You VILL FOLLOW ORDERZ!!!! And it’s flowed into fire, and even the local shopkeepers, many of whom grew up elsewhere and then migrated. I think perhaps we’ve under-valued the mass propaganda movements of TV and Radio (TV counts far more, actually.) We see images of people doing stupid things, and they get promoted for it – not just Jackass, say, but any sort fo reality TV. At the same time, the bar for “normal” is set SO FAR DOWN that an ant could step over it without realizing it was there.

        Whereas we were once “indoctrinated” as “the land of the free,” now it’s BRAINWASHING to be “THE LAND OF SHEEP, RULED BY WOLVES (but the wolves don’t really exist, the government will make them all behave).” Home of the Enslaved. And we cheer Team USA…

        Back in the early 1800s, they cheered Team Virginia and Team New Jersey… And Robert E. Lee resigned his commission to side with his state.
        We know how that turned out – they’ve just moved to the next battlefield, to make us smaller still.

        Ugh. I AM in a mood today… 😉

        • Boy Jean, You went a lot further with that than I expected. I just meant we should forget the team, and root for the home (and family).

          • OK, I follow that. Much simpler. 😉

            I do get carried away…

            But with respect to all: How do you feel when on days ending in Y, you are ALWAYS the smartest person in the room?
            I imagine MENSA operates as a pressure valve for those who are so gifted.
            Alas, I’m not THAT gifted… A few points low, as in most of life. Missing “certificate X” by 3 points gets to be annoying.
            (Certified Payroll Professional; Certified Software Test Engineer; MENSA; OK, that’s all to date.)

            I think most of the people here, being smart enough to realize they cannot control others, and instead sinking that energy into self-development, self-improvement, and/or careers or useful skills.

            Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
            – Eleanor Roosevelt

            Guess I’m just being small-minded right now… 😉

          • Dear Jean,

            Eleanor Roosevelt may have been a New Deal fascist, but her quote:

            Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
            – Eleanor Roosevelt

            was right on the money.

            I’ve often cited it in discussions. I have never understood the fascination some people have with gossip about other people.

            I mean really, who gives a shite about which person famous for being famous divorced which person famous for being famous?

            Needless to say, this applies to football “heroes” and their “stats.” Why should anyone give a shite who ran how many yards?

            Why should I care more about that than the fact that the Fed, the Treasury, and the banksters continue to engage in legalized counterfeiting and embezzling our hard earned money right out in the open, in broad daylight, all according to “The Law” and immune from any legal repercussions?

  22. Is there not a middle ground where one can enjoy watching football on occasion WITHOUT letting it rule them? Is there anything wrong with it as entertainment, provided it remains that rather than becomming an obsession?

    I like football and have a favorite team. I watch games on occasion. I spend far more time debating political issues which are far more important. But even I need a break sometimes…

    • Dear David,

      I wouldn’t think in terms of “middle ground.”

      Can one watch organized sports without being a puppet? It’s possible. Not likely, but possible.

      If one does however, that is not really a “middle ground.”

      Rather it just means that you experience the ball game very differently than the Great Noisy Majority who are shouting “We won! We beat their sorry asses!”

      They are experiencing ball games the way the PTB intend them to, as gladiatoral combat, as surrogate warfare, as primitive tribalism, as groupthink.

      • Let me put it this way. I watch football on occasion. I have a favorite team. I root for that team. I get some temporary enjoyment when I see that that team won, and I am somewhat disappointed when they lose. I may occasionally say “we”, but I don’t really believe it, much like I occasionally slip into saying “we” bombed Iraq even though I obviously don’t truly believe that either. Yes, I can see how this results in collectivist thinking. I’ll occasionally joke about sports and disparage other teams, but at the end of the day I’m aware that it doesn’t truly matter.

        I understand that there are some (lots?) of people who are downright obsessed with sports and let it control them, but I think one can enjoy sports without doing this, and I don’t see what’s intrinsically awful about enjoying football and rooting for a team.

        • Hi David,

          30 years ago, I’d have agreed.

          Because 30 years ago, a thug athlete who cold-cocked a woman would have been shunned by the fans – as well as been kicked off the team.

          30 years ago, a thug athlete who tortured dogs … same thing.

          And today?

          They cheer these creeps.

          And you’re supporting that.

          Fuuuhhhhhhtttball (and bassebaaaaaalll) have played a key role in the de-evolving of America from a country that – among all but the dredges of society – valued education, achievement (in areas of consequence, such as science, engineering, etc.) and disdained low-IQ meatheads, illiteracy and thuggery.

          Just consider what sports have done to colleges. Imbeciles who literally could not have graduated high school on the merits are admitted to Ivy League schools. A place that ought to be about acquiring an education and learning to think becomes a got-damned carnival centered on “the game.”

          It’s sickening.

          • @Eric- Yeah, I guess I see your point. Why should people with low IQs be shunned, though? I get thugs who beat women and torture dogs, but just for having a low IQ? I assume you’re using hyperbole for something else, but I’m not quite sure what.

            • People with low IQs should not be shunned. But violent thugs with low IQs (and otherwise) should be!

              The combination of thuggery and stupidity is what defines sports today.

              From high school through college, “the game” is now the Most Important Thing – and those who play the game deified. There has always been a degree of jock worship. But it’s become demented. They really ought to sell used jockstraps out of vending machines so that the imbecile fans can huff the musk of their heroes.

              I’d despise sports less (a little less) if fuuuhhhhttttball and basseeeball were not in any way associated with education.

              Why haven’t men landed on Mars yet?

              Because engineers are valued less than quarterbacks.

          • @Eric- Its a fair point WRT education. I don’t NECESSARILY think this is awful, but I understand the problem. If someone is very likely going to play Quarterback as a career (however much that position should be honored, which frankly is the market’s decision to make and not yours or mine) I can see why it would make sense for him to go to college to learn that, just like a prospective writer or engineer or whatever would go to college to learn that.

            I don’t worship football players. I cheer for the ones on my team. I’ve gotten signatures from a few. But, I don’t worship them. I’ll be far more personally saddened when Ron Paul dies than I will be when Dan Marino dies. It won’t even be close. I’ll freely agree that exploring Mars is far more valuable than playing football. I don’t see how you can say all football players are thugs. You aren’t a thug just because you hit other players on the football field. Many football players are thugs, sure, but its not like there’s something intrinsically related to the game that makes one a thug like there is with policing or military “service.”

            • Per Jean, David… one goes to college to develop one’s mind, not one’s muscles.

              A quarterback needs education like a fish needs a bicycle… insofar as his “craft” is concerned. And you know as well as I that colleges routinely admit meatheads who – absent their sports abilities – would never have been admitted.

              This cheapens the value of the degrees received by the students admitted on merit – hence, it’s a despicable thing.

              I did not say that all fuuuhhhhtttball players are thugs. I noted that many are.

          • For what its worth, I’m nowhere near a jock. I’ve always been the nerd that gets picked on, albeit much more of an American History and political theory nerd than a mathematical/engineering type.

            • Ironically, I’m athletic. Good at sports (playing, not watching). I can still free weight bench press 275 pounds, which isn’t bad for an over-the-hill (40-plus) keyboard jockey. I also run 3-5 miles several times a week.

              So, in my case, fuuhhhhhhtttball hatred does not derive from jock envy.

              I’m just a grown man who can’t fathom other men who are obsessed with a game… played by other people they don’t even know… many of whom are absolute cretins.

          • @ David
            September 16, 2014 at 3:17 pm

            NO NO NO NO GODDAMMIT FUCKING NO!!!!!!!!

            You don’t GO TO COLLEGE to learn to play FOOTBALL!
            That’s one of the BIG things that has COMPLETELY fucked up our colleges!!!!

            Here’s an example of why it’s even MORE BS than you can stomach, but this one’s Off Topic. Provided for interesting reading.
            http://www.t-nation.com/training/current-state-of-sc-coaching

            More to the point: YOU AREN’T SUPPOSED TO GET DEGREES FOR EVERYTHING! You don’t NEED a rubber stamp on your ASS to prove you know something!
            Something I could never communicate to my parents, but let me try to talk to you…

            The easiest example is a friend I had in college.
            His major was English. He works as a Unix SysAdmin, went there straight out of college. His idea of fun on a Saturday night was recompiling the kernel (what actually runs the machine) after he had optimized it. Of note: HE did the optimizations, not the compiler, not the machine.
            The degree in English? Prove he’s not a one-shot deal, he has multiple skills.
            His CV/Resume? “Set up Silicon Graphics lab for graphics arts students as a contractor to the College Computer lab.”

            Point: Degree is a piece of paper.
            What you DO is what matters.

            The article above? About strength and conditioning, especially WRT college – Division 1 schools, and their lack of quality coaches for strength and conditioning.

            Same sort of logic is in Rippentoe’s (The author) article. He’s got 37 years to demonstrate his skills. You want to talk to a “coach” who tells you you only need to use these machines? Or you want to talk to a man who learned FOR HIMSELF what did and didn’t work, and has anecdotal proof in the millions? Guess which one has the degree?

            Are we to discard Rothbard because he doesn’t have a degree in Libertarianism? Or Einstein, who didn’t have a degree in theoretical physics?

            ESPECIALLY for something that’s raw talent and some learned skills, a DEGREE is BULLSHIT. Get that concept out of your head ASAP! For your OWN sake!
            Moses didn’t have a theology degree, nor did Jesus. I don’t think Eric has a degree in driving, or in automotive education. My father didn’t have a degree in chemical engineering, nor in law, but he showed a few lawyers up in court, and he had peer recognition as a chemical engineer.

            Another example, WRITERS don’t need a DEGREE to be WRITERS! They need to WRITE. There’s a HUGE difference.
            Writers refine the writing skill, just as a football or soccer or baseball player does, by PRACTICING.
            I didn’t get to be a performance engineer by going to college for it, either. And I’m not getting good at it because of a degree. I’m learning from others, and doing.

            You want to be a preacher, IIRC; learn to speak in public. Take acting classes. Theology is a distant 18th or so. Why? you need to COMMUNICATE to people. Speak clearly! Draw emotions, thoughts, images, with your words – and their minds! (Acting!)
            But you’ve been immersed in theology since birth, IIRC – your father’s a preacher, too! A degree in theology is, for you, a mere formality. The others are PRACTICAL, as you’ll learn how to draw others to you, how to engage them in conversations, how to emote, how to enunciate, how to think on your feet, how to speak to a crowd and have every member feel you were speaking directly to them, empathize with them, feel their sorrow, their joy, their rapture… Even if you hate their guts and wish they’d go to hell. 😉

            BTW, engineering is different, but similar. you find engineers making models of aircraft, ships, cars; making steam engines that run on real steam power (as opposed to the “visible V-8” of some years back, which showed the motions, but was powered by batteries.) Wiring circuits, making electronic gear, playing with high voltage, building bridges, reading about great engineers and architects, reading material data sheets…. All play for them, but again: the degree is meant to build on what they have. Not to designate them an engineer.

            I could go on, but it turns into whiny, self-centered BS and I won’t clog up the page. Overall point is that college and education is meant to build on your interests, and we’re over-qualified for most of life these days. Over-brainwashed, really, and under-educated. Lots of degrees, but “Liberal Arts” degrees are essentially swill, dross, and straight-up shit. Womyn’s Studies, Ethnic Studies, and OMFG have you ever looked at psychology?
            The degree is to show you can achieve at a certain level, but outside of hardcore sciences and engineering, it’s far too perverted into brainwashing and marxist/socialist claptrap.
            Walk into some of those classes, and you can FEEL the hatred radiating – just because you have a penis.
            Hell, my politics class voted for Fascism, that was 19 years ago: these same people (stupid and ignorant and happy to stay so) are now running the offices, or in some cases, elected TO the offices, of our “leaders.” They WANT the Ubermenschen, and they think they ARE the ubermenschen, and we little proles should shut up and do our duty to them and the country (note: original was GOD and country.) They can’t find their ASS with both hands and a set of directions, and a committee to help them out….

            The degree they have is worthless! And so are they.

            No degrees for half-wits. What I suggested you learn? all available in real-life experience. Run a small business, join the local thespian society, shmooze with everyone, you’ll be a success. Get the degree only for official recognition….
            Like the engineers who DO build steam locomotives to scale… Or a rocket using their own blend of propellants (probably a liquid rocket, but now even that might be an issue.) Or have a room filled with electrical “toys” like Van deGraaf generators and Tesla coils, and you can visit, but you put one hand in your pocket and it STAYS there until you leave. (Why? so you can’t be grounded and killed.)

            And understand that Eric was understated when he said QBs are valued more than engineers. Engineers are seen as filth and sub-human life forms. Even the good ones. They don’t get much respect, and the QB bangs all the “good little christian girls” who then go cry to the engineers, who are their “friends” (Read: Emotional tampons.)

            Been there.
            Done that.
            Got the scars to prove it.

            Hope you do better, man. But the productive you are of real ideas and knowledge, the more you’ll be seen as a sub-human geek or nerd, and though the girls may love having you in their “orbiter” realm, … They’ll never see you as a MAN.

            FT(or don’t) AFTFH.

            to be young (and clueless!) again…. 😉

          • Dear Jean,

            “You don’t NEED a rubber stamp on your ASS to prove you know something!”

            This is the best comment (the entire comment, not just this sentence) that you’ve ever posted!

            I’m impressed!

            I work at a think tank here on Taiwan. I can’t tell you how many Ph.Ds are “educated beyond their intelligence.” Their degrees are almost evidence they cannot think outside the box.

          • the whole thing comes down to watching vs doing.
            Why spend so many hours watching other people do athletics one supposedly ‘loves’? Just get out and do them.

            Per the trekkie comment, people are made fun of geeking out on so many things, but usually these are things people go and do in some form. Sports fans? They watch. Sci-fi geeks start writing their own sci-fi. They make episodes of their own for the youtube. car geeks do body work, rebuild engines, etc. What do sports geeks do? They watch. And yet, their ‘geek’ of choice is so easy to do. Get some friends together, go to the park, and play a game. If americans’ obsession with sports resulted in much more physical activity that would be a good thing.

          • Dear Brent,

            I agree. If sports were more about individual health rather than groupthink/hero worship, that would be a whole ‘nother ballgame, so to speak!

            Instead they have become all bout a Leni Riefenstahl “Triumph of the Will” collectivism.

            Triumph des Willens (1935) – Triumph of the Will
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHs2coAzLJ8

            And not just pro, but even college and high school. The mentality is the same.

          • Dear Bevin, RE: September 16, 2014 at 6:44 pm
            RE: PhDs: Yes, Piled High and Deep.
            Their minds have been conformed to “THE BOX” and nothing else registers. I think I got around that because of my dad’s business.
            It’s really “fun” to consider the PhD who knew EVERYTHING blew up the “box” (often with him inside it) and scattered fragments across three counties.
            Makes you want to be a bit cautious. And then commit fully when you make a move. But you’ve already looked at miles of points and counterpoints, weighted the opposing views, looked at the psychologies in play, the players, the histories, etc.
            E.G., I’m predicting Hitlary for the next POTUS – I don’t think TPTB are willing to push for Martial Law here, just yet. Another decade to go.
            But while she’ll be “elected” (via fraud – see the NYC Democrats who want to give illegal aliens the ability to apply for licenses, professional licenses, vote, and even HOLD OFFICE! Mid-term power grab, maybe? PhDs who can’t even conceive of the box, if you will.)…
            She’ll be a President only in name, and a de facto dictator.
            And with things like the “3%ers” and “militias” unwilling to consider people like me (I.E., not only distancing themselves, correctly, from firebrands – a valid political move – but downright condemning out of hand, showing they don’t understand the system is WORKING AS DESIGNED, to keep them all in “Loyal Opposition” mode) or my point of view, that we need to start DOING things (beyond just “educating” the somnambulent) – like getting candidates on the ballot, at least, as a protest vote! Let alone, accepting that there’ll come a time when it’s resist or die. Let alone actual acts of violence (which ends badly no matter what, but may STILL be preferable to the alternative, walking around with biometric “bar codes” under 24/7/365 surveillance, property of a corporation – a “faction” per Divergent, all of our IP under contract to the corporations, non-compete across all fields – meaning you can’t leave the job – and paid a stipend against your “life debt”, the cost that society takes on to support you in the Megacities I’ve pointed to elsewhere… Etc.)
            More and more, the “tinfoil hat” crowd sounds like “John the Baptist”, a voice int eh wilderness warning us what was coming.
            1984 was an instruction manual, legalese was in Atlas Shrugged (TPTB see themselves as Atlas, mind), the Matrix gave them further end-game plans, I’m sure – VR development right now, using a robot miles away to virtually perform operations… how long before we’re inserted into a VR sim with robotic hands operating manufacturing…? REAL slaves, believing we are free…?

            I’d rather disrupt their plans ASAP. Via Paradoxi…. You’ll have to google it. I always thought it was BS as an approach to life, but Don Juan embraced it… Maybe he knew more than I do…? (Many many many people do…)

        • David, David, David…

          First of all and I will support Eric on this. Foolbawl is a gooberdick subsidized endeavor (do you really support enslaving some people so others can enjoy some team? Really?). Not merely Foolbawl but also bawskitball and all other spurts that enslave the people of a given area to build and support an arena so the owners and yes the players can have a place to F the populace.

          You must realize that without the government enslaving the people to build those arenas modern teams can’t exist! I say stop building arenas and kick the F’n teams out. If they truly want to provide entertainment they’ll build their own. BUT! Until they do, those en-slavers of people get no sympathy from me.

          David, if you must support a something support LIBERTY!

          D.L. Ward
          Memphis, Tn.

          • Dear David Ward,

            Good point. I don’t know of any sports arenas that weren’t egregious goonvermin pork barrel projects that ripped off taxpayers, including non-sports fans.

            So in that respect, they are not merely “doing their own thang.” You are forced to underwrite something by which the PTB indoctrinate the sheeple.

            They are essentially the modern counterparts of the Roman Coliseum for gladiatoral combat. “Panem et circenses,” remember?

          • Hi David,

            Thanks for bringing up a very important criticism of fuuuhhhhttttball, et al.

            These massively profitable enterprises are also rent-seeking enterprises – that is, cartels – just like General Motors.

            Only at least GM actually does make useful (to some extent) things.

            But of what value is “the game”?

            And why the heck should I or any other person be forced to subsidize it?

          • Eric enjoys driving on public roads. It does not follow that Eric supports forcing people to pay for public roads. You play the hand you are dealt.

            Mind you, I understand its far more convenient to boycott sports than to boycott driving. And, I’m not even talking about driving out of necessity, but driving as a hobby, as I know Eric enjoys.

            The point is, just because you make use of government provided things doesn’t mean you support government provision of the same.

    • For example, I can watch a film like “Noah” and get something out of it. Not much, but something.

      I get to see how misanthropic religious fanaticism and misanthropic ecological fanaticism made common cause in what Ayn Rand termed a misanthropic “anti-man” agenda.

      That is not what the film maker intended, but it is what I got, and it is of some value.

    • Hi David,

      What one does/enjoys is entirely up to the individual. However…

      If one enjoys supporting a sick cult that is obviously Bad News (because it’s good news for the system) that’s another matter.

      Should it be illegal?

      No, of course not.

      But should it be shunned?

      Yes. I think it should be.

      • @Eric- Why is football a “sick cult”? Mind you, I understand that it CAN be, but I don’t think it intrinsically is. There is a difference between the guy who has a beer every once and awhile and the guy who gets drunk every night and doesn’t work. There is a difference between the guy who engages in some recreational poker games with friends at times and the guy who gambles away his children’s college savings accounts because he’s so addicted. There is a difference between someone like me (whatever else you could say about me) that watches the superbowl and maybe 1-2 other games during the year, and someone who is absolutely obsessed with football and won’t talk about anything else.

        • David,

          Really?

          Come to my neck of the Woods sometime. I’m near Virginia Tech. On game day, the fans will drive around with flags fluttering from their cars, dressed in war paint, wearing the colors of their gods. They will spend the entire weekend – and the next week after that – in a bipolar frenzy of ecstasy or agony, depending on whether “we” won – or lost. They memorize and analyze the minutia; know every little detail about their team and its players.

          Yes, it’s a sick cult.

          And it’s a nationwide cult. Tens of millions of imbeciles who are as described above. Who know all about their team and expend vast energy sweating its fortunes… but who could not tell you what the Fourth Amendment says (much less care what it says).

          It is bread and circuses, David.

          You of all people ought to realize that!

          • The God of Americans Is the Military

            “These images are from a football game at Lambeau Field in Green Bay, WI. What more do I need to say?”

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/the-god-of-americans-is-the-military/

            “The band and the narrator WORSHIPPED the military.”…

            https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/do-we-need-to-do-more-to-honor-veterans/

            The Fifth Branch of the Military

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/the-fifth-branch-of-the-military/

            It’s Not Enough to Cover an Entire Football Field with an American Flag . . .

            “… Northwestern University’s football team wears American flag uniforms adorned with fake blood splatters. What’s next — human sacrifice at halftime “to honor our veterans”?”

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/its-not-enough-to-cover-an-entire-football-field-with-an-american-flag/

            The March of the Boobeoisie

            “… the causative factors underlying our collective insanity. As long as the moral lepers are able to continue getting otherwise intelligent men and women to invest their children in the racket, the depraved game will continue, with the mainstream media maintaining the drumbeat.

            You will doubtless see more of this celebration of murder at weekend sporting events. As Laurence Vance has so well documented, academia is committing its forces to the slaughter. College football games will feature players dressed in American flag uniforms, Air Force flyovers, soldiers dressed in camouflage, patriotic music, and other symbols of warfare to keep tens of thousands of enthusiasts in stadiums wildly cheering. All of this should remind the few who have bothered to study history of the final days of the Roman Empire: as the Roman legions carried their violence throughout the rest of Europe, the hometown boobeoisie was whooping it up for the local athletes performing at the coliseum!”

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/the-march-of-the-boobeiosie/

            Why Football Has Become So Militarized

            “… the U.S. government aspires to imitate the regimes of Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco in terms of how they used sports to glorify the state and statism. (You might also be interested in a book entitled Football and Fascism by Simon Martin).”

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/why-football-has-become-so-militarized/

          • “The NFL now represents the antithesis of everything that comprises the backbone of traditional American values.
            […] The NFL Is An Extension of the TSA
            […] NFL Uses Taxpayer Money to Promote Obamacare
            […] The NFL Has Become the New Gun Confiscation Lobby
            […] Every NFL Stadium Is a FEMA Camp Hiding In Plain Sight
            […] there is just too much proof that the NFL is no longer just in the entertainment business.
            […] If Americans wanted to strike a blow at the globalists, boycotting the NFL [and probably collegiate football as well] would prove to be an ideal course of action.” …

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/12/dave-hodges/the-nfls-role-in-martial-law/

          • eric, the Baptists in Waco have gone all out, just having finished and debuted their new $262M facility for that one single sport with it’s spin-off sports of uniformed bands and uniformed sexy girls. You can even access it by it’s newly dug river access, probably kept at level by a new dam since it hasn’t rained much so the Brazos isn’t what it used to be. Shirley those Baptists ain’t a drinking er they? A badass team, best in the nation says many, so says yahoo and my college buds to go along with it. Wonder what that cost? In these days of the sky is the limit for nearly everything including free sex, fun of all sorts, reckon all those top players are going to Baylor to praise god and not party? There’s a serious disconnect there.

          • Dear Eric,

            “They memorize and analyze the minutia; know every little detail about their team and its players… [they] know all about their team and expend vast energy sweating its fortunes… but who could not tell you what the Fourth Amendment says (much less care what it says).”

            A couple of concepts come to mind.

            Consensus reality.

            Collective insanity.

          • Dear helot,

            Pat Tillman.

            A clear example of the not so hidden connection between football and war, and the tragic consequences the connection had for one football star when he belatedly discovered the ugly truth.

          • @Eric- Yeah, there are lots of people like that. And then there are moderate fans like me, that spend far more time posting here than they do on football.

  23. It’s the modern day equivalent of the Roman “bread and circuses”, keep the masses of asses diverted from reality while the empire continues to steal their money, lives, and freedom.

    • Dear MIB,

      Suzanne Collins’ “The Hunger Games” satirizes war/football mock war marvelously.

      Interestingly enough, the Plebes depicted in the novels and films were more aware of their exploited status than many Amerikanischen shafenmenschen.

      Increasingly, though, adults are also reading The Hunger Games… There is a very grown-up political logic to the books, which become steadily more uncomfortable as they go on, ending with an ultra-dystopian society in which the rebels – Katniss among them – resort to the same power games as their one-time oppressors. “Panem is clearly the USA seen through a distorting mirror … with elements of the Roman empire thrown in. All very clever and thought-provoking,” says Horowitz.

      The writer Michael Rosen has written admiringly for the Guardian about the politics of Collins’ dystopia. “What I thought was uplifting about The Hunger Games was that I was given plenty of clues of how power was enacted in this totalitarian future society – enough clues for me to see parallels in past and present political regimes. I felt I was being warned and I quite like being warned.”

      http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/apr/27/suzanne-collins-hunger-games-profile

      • My Main Man Bevin,

        Do you think Panem US is in some way modeled after Panem UK?

        This whole Scotland debacle seemed very much out of Hunger Games.

        If you’ve read the books. You know the story.

        By 06:10 GMT, the “No” campaign had more than 1,397,000 votes, with “Yes” on just over 1,176,000. This is with 26 out of the 32 council areas having declared. The “No” side is on 54% of the vote, with the “Yes” campaign on 46%.*

        A total of 1,852,828 votes is needed for victory in the referendum.

        One way or the other the young kids are going to support the older pensioner generation. And their champions, the layabout Capitol Chameleons.

        Keeping Scotland where it was must have been the best way to keep the current plot intact, so the vote was set up to keep the status quo and for the YES campaign to fail.

        The Odds Are Ever In Your Favor Kids – 5 reasons to be cheerful – even if you voted yes for Scottish independence
        http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/19/5-reasons-cheerful-voted-yes-scottish-independence

        “The result of the independence referendum is the beginning of a conversation, not the closing statement of a soliloquy.” Use your best Effie Trinket voice for this.

        – there’s something tragically beautiful about Effie.
        http://www.fitfabceleb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/banks-020513-425-x-680.jpg

        Map of Panem US
        http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e2/d8/e3/e2d8e3f0d0e60fb809b401375bc93778.jpg

        —Eric’s in District 12. I’m underwater. Sounds about right.

        –well, I’m off to order some snake venom now. I heard about it on reddit. Seems to do amazing things for you when you inject it.
        http://www.venomsa.com/venoms.html

        * 5.3 million Scots; *.46 want to be independent. Looks to be 2,438,000 people who are being oppressed and kept in the shackles of Britain. Many of them young people shackled to paying pensions of strangers they don’t even know.

        Could have formed a fairly decent country with 2.4 million. Freed people who could have been an engine of prosperity. But it is not to be. Not with the likes of President Snow at every podium. At the helm of every ruling government coalition found anywhere in the UN, I’d imagine.

        As comedian Yakov Smirnoff might say about anyone in the UN:
        “What A Country!” [only drop the “ry” and keep the pronunciation]

        • Dear Tor,

          “Do you think Panem US is in some way modeled after Panem UK? This whole Scotland debacle seemed very much out of Hunger Games. If you’ve read the books. You know the story. ”

          Yes, I have read the entire series of Collins’ books! The later volumes prove that she is not a NWO shill. Her books are not “predictive programming.” They are cautionary tales, just like 1984 or Brave New World.

          Re: Panem UK. If the PTB in the UK don’t watch it, they’re going to be confronted with a scenario out of another film “V for Vendetta.”

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8UtojJT8ts

          • Yes indeed.

            I think they will discover THE MOCKINGJAY LIVES

            #OnePanem CITIZENS: Never have we been more unified as a nation. The Capitol and the districts are bound together in solidarity, striving to forge a stronger future. President Snow’s Panem Address, Unity, is brought to you by Capitol TV in stunning 4K. This is a Capitol Ministry of Information mandate.

            CITIZENS: The Capitol requires your viewing of President Snow’s official Panem Address, Together As One, brought to you by Capitol TV in stunning 4K.

            This Part Of Mockingjay Jumps The Shark Says My Family And Peeves Them To No End

            Gale is taken away by peacekeepers. As he is being taken away, he mouths at Katniss “shoot me.” She finds herself unable to do it, just as he is unable to kill her after the assassination of President Coin.

            Afterwards, Katniss’ sister is killed in a method akin to one Gale devised. Gale visits her before Snow’s death and gives her a sheath with one arrow to shoot at Snow.

            Katniss asks if it was his bomb that killed Prim. Gale isn’t sure and tells her to shoot straight at Snow before he leaves. While Katniss can never be sure that it was Gale’s trap that did it, she realizes she will never be able to look at him the same way again.

            Gale later moves to District 2, where he secures a “fancy job” working for Panem’s new government. Katniss herself believes that Gale will forget her and will soon be “kissing another pair of lips.”

            – moral of the story. Katniss’ sister dies anyway. Her boyfriend Gale ends up taking a fancy job at the capital for the Panem Government. So really, what was the point of her sacrifice and all the books really?

            – The point may be to bring understanding to men of discernment. To show there is a danger of devolving into cyclical war folly cycles, if you only seek to overthrow your government. There has to be understanding. There has to be more.

          • DETECTING AND UNDERSTANDING ILLUMINATI INTERFERENCE

            a scene from “V is for Vendetta” — “The most blatantly honest Illuminati project I have yet viewed.”
            http://www.henrymakow.com/aspen.html

            Evie: How strange that I suddenly see your face everywhere…. I don’t understand.
            V: What?
            Evie: How you can be one of the most important things that has ever happened to me, and yet I know almost nothing about you. I don’t know where you were born, who your parents were, if you had any brothers or sisters… I don’t even know what you really look like.
            V: There is a face beneath this mask, but it’s not me. I am no more that face than the muscles beneath it, or the bones beneath that.

            This is Illuminatis’ admission that their public representation of themselves is a very deliberate sham. They have intended all along to keep their membership, their ultimate intentions, and their core character as hidden as necessary.

            Therefore, if we examine what they present in overly forceful ways, we can discover what they are not. Conversely, if we examine their more subtle touches, we can discover what they are willing to admit to – that is, what they MUST admit to, in order to build the future they have planned for Humanity.

            – Haven’t heard much outta David Icke lately.

            David Icke The Greatest Speech for Humanity
            V for Vendetta Directors cut
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG-lp52yHKc

          • Dear Tor,

            I believe Collins meant to say that as long as one remains trapped within the Myth of Authority, a revolution merely replaces one authority with another.

            She does not make it particularly explicit. She implies it. But the insight is correct, and I suspect it is what Collins was struggling to get at.

            Larkin Rose sums it up nicely in this edited clip.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYbpICtfFwo

            In short, the solution is not to be found in the Capitol. It is not to be found in a rebel government that will “do it better” than the current government in the Capitol.

            The solution is to be found inside our heads. It is to be found in the dawning realization that government does not need to be replaced. It needs to be done away with entirely, through de-legitimization, through individual conscious raising.

            It is not an answer that most people who want to “do something” like to hear. But it is in fact the only real solution to the problem.

    • Yup – I’m amazed that no one has noticed.
      In the Old world, the coins were minted of precious metals. As the metals increased in value, the coins would be shaved or clipped – pieces removed, used for other (counterfeit) coins, or melted into other objects (save on manufacture costs).
      This is actually why the dime and quarter have serrated edges: to make it impossible to pass bad money. Useful when the coins were silver; waste of time now.

      BUT: There’s a sneaky end-run in play, too. Out and out devaluing the currency, as with clipping, is one thing.
      What about devaluing the materials you can buy?
      Go from a half-gallon of Ice Cream for $2.00 to 1.5 liters for $1.90 – the price went down!!! No, actually, the QUNATITY went down, the PRICE went up, the store advertised it as a SALE on ice cream, and YOU bought it hook, line, and sinker… And defined the new normal.

      Eric writes about it WRT cars all the time; more “safety” equipment mandated means more cost, lower fuel efficiency, etc – and higher prices, higher Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), longer hours spent doing mandatory “repair” work (mostly, take out 500 components to get to the one you need to change out, which is about as hard as changing a light bulb), then put it all back together and charge for 10 hours of labor, 9.75 hours of which is disassembly and re-assembly. Then you need to get the wheels re-aligned, and the brakes need to be checked, and the brake lines bled free of air, and [… List of 25 other steps required to put it all right again post-assembly.]
      And then they finally clear the OBD chip, and hopefully everything runs again.

      So your half-gallon of ice cream? Now a 1.5 quart, billed as a half-gallon, sold for a “sale” price, and you just accept it because, what’s one man to do? (That’s assuming you’re smart enough to realize how things are shrinking…)

      Where else are we seeing this cheapening, this “clipping” principle applied to our real posessions? Bags of chips. Bag is same size, quantity inside has gone down. Alcohol – from 1.5 liters to 1 liter. Heineken slim beer cans 98.5 oz instead of 14, I think it was.) Coke/pepsi et al. Coffee cans and bags. Boxes (cereal was the most recent item I noticed; I’d guess rice and beans are on the same path.)

      Bread and circuses, indeed.

      As an aside, I’m noticing it’s not just Fuhtbawl. World Cup, Polo, March Madness, Bowl games, playoffs, world championships, now branched into poker and minor leagues, and always the olympics. (some sports – oddly enough, you have to WORK to find wrestling, weightlifting, biathlon. Most of it is schlock, E.G. synchronized swimming, figure skating, tobaganing, snowboarding, etc, etc, etc. The stuff that SELLS well…. )
      Why the “stuff that sells well”? Because it’s all about “a dollar and a dream” still – the objective is to sell the products from the commericals, and a receptive audience is essential. Hence the reason most sports court the female demographic so much, to the point that our society’s being f*cked in the name of profits. Don’t know about abyone else, but I dont WANT a “wife” who is “one of the guys.” Because trash-talking the “opposing team” is just SO CUTE…. [vomit]
      Add in that the GAME is being trashed, too, and the players – brutes or not – are being villified for the SLIGHTEST transgression, while the players are violated (E.G., forced to wear pink uniforms, as the NFL shows “SUPPORT” for Breast Cancer, to “raise awareness,” etc. ) Unless you’ve been living WITHOUT a TV or radio for the last 20 years, you know: (a) women have breasts, (b) women get breast cancer, (c) treatment still rrequently involves surgery, and (d) surgery, especially radical masectomy, damages a woman’s self-esteem and concept of herself as a woman. You MIGHT know, with a few moment’s research, that MEN can die of breast cancer, too. That many drugs induce gynecomastia in men, as well, and that men’s hormones actually convert from Testosterone (T2, specifically) to Estrogen. (T3 is Dihydrotestosterone, which does NOT change into Estrogen, but DOES cause secondary sexual characteristics: body hair, enlarged voicebox / deeper voice, male pattern baldness, Benign Prostate Hyperplasy. And various male-specific cancers, like Prostate and Testicular cancer. Most women won’t know that, though… Nor will they care. They just expect YOU to care about THEIR ta-tas… And I’ll guess the pink uniforms are just icing on the male-humiliation cake.)
      In short form: More clipping of value.

      As for the whole banning/fining/shaming/”Real Men Don’t …”/”Man Up!” cries? F them. The whole REASON these men are what they are is BECAUSE they are MEN. Might as well shame a man for having a penis (which has been tried elsewhere – nursery schools forcing boys to sit to pee, for example. Not an accuracy thing, either. They’re being raised “Gender Neutral,” I.E., effeminate/emasculated. More clipping…)

      As for the focus again? You can’t expect a cop (or soldier) to respond ONE way in combat, and a DIFFERENT way at home. You train the dog for combat, you don’t expect it to love up to your infant daughter… A cop, trained to respond with violence the instant someone doesn’t bow and scrape enough, responds the same way when confronted off-duty as if he were in uniform. A woman, trained as a lawyer (professional arguer, obfuscator, liar) will dissimulate in the same way when she is “off the clock.”
      A professional athlete, used to obtaining his wants and ego-gratification through dominating others…? Same thing when he is off the field/court. Man, woman, child – you hit “red zone,” you’re DONE, you are on instinct and adrenalin. Put the target down.
      Don’t believe me? Go to a tech convention, look for geeks going at it. They do the SAME dominance games. Like the race-hucksters in 2008 asking, “Is Barack BLACK enough…?”

      Clipping value: STEALING our civilization – ALL civil interactions, in fact – out from under us, using our own decency against us. “Value Added” becomes “value taken.”

      Rent seeking.

      Steal from the paycheck to present Bread (which must be bought, but is now in special reduced-calorie loaves, at 2/3 the size and 1/2 the nutrition, and only 90% of the price!) and Circuses (mass-media meant to manipulate the brain chemistry, shorten the attention span, and improve sales for the advertisers, while creating emotional roller-coasters OUTside the sports realm – I.E., news, talk shows, etc, etc, etc.)

      Babylon, AD.

      But – when the Barbarians sacked Rome, they supposedly asked the chief about attacking the colloseum, where the games were still going on.
      He told his men to leave them alone – no reason to raise the alarm. So the barbarians sacked the city while the people cheered their “heros.”
      Humans haven’t changed much, we STILL think the universe revolves around US, individually. “the Rich” never pay “their fair share.” (This, while that 1% accounts for something like 80% of the tax revenues, I believe it was… ) (Oh, and – people like me? Earning less that the State senators, forget national, while still paying my own health insurance, my own retirement, no private security – we ARE “The Rich,” because we earn more than the median income. “Poverty line” is defined to where you JUST miss Poverty when working full time hours on minimum wage. “Middle Class” is defined as one income over $50K, or two incomes totalling over $60K, in a household of two people. “Rich” is everyone else, EXCEPT those in government “proper.” Those poor public servants – some valued at millions – are NEVER “The Wealthy.” They only ahve PULL, after all…

      Again, clipped, left, right, and center. Reliving Babylon. The tower will fall soon. It HAS to. Can’t support itself, the supports are all being removed…. Or, more correctly, the supporting pillars are being “right sized” to offshore locations….
      And the Empire(s) continue to steal and to grow… while we sleepwalk through our lives, or try to rouse the somnambulent populace. But as in The Matrix: Some minds shouldn’t be woken up…

    • Whatever it is. These types of fantasies might just be the glue that’s keeping families intact these days. The first step is to be self-aware. And then to decide for yourself what you want to be a fan of using your own hierarchy of values.

      We should debunk and lay bare all statist illusions of course. And also be ready for what happens when you open old wounds that benefit from being re-opened and undergoing a thorough cleaning.

      And then make arrangements for ourselves and others to be allowed time to heal again, this time correctly. Do no harm. First heal thyself. Ensure its of net benefit. And all that.

      Early Signs of Psychosis

      There are warning signs, months or years before the onset of psychosis. Early recognition provides the best opportunity for prevention of psychosis.

      Psychosis sufferers describe the earliest change as having more difficulty screening out distracting info and sensation. Difficulty focusing. Trouble understanding what they are hearing. Seeing visual experiences becoming brighter and sounds becoming louder.

      They feel more and more disconnected and want to be alone. Gradually, they may become confused about what is real and what is not real, mistrustful, and panicky.

      In Gilliam’s The Zero Theorem. psychosis is shown to thrive and triumph.

      Early, non-specific changes
      Social withdrawal or isolation
      Decline in functioning (at school or work, in self-care)
      Depressed mood
      Anxiety
      Decreased motivation
      Reduced concentration
      Sleep disturbance
      Reduced emotional expression
      Problems with handling everyday stress
      Impairment in personal hygiene

      Suspiciousness
      Odd beliefs or magical thinking
      Unusual perceptual experiences
      Tangential/circumstantial speech

      Early intervention has the potential to delay or ultimately prevent the onset of psychosis, and to improve the outcome of those who do develop a disorder.

      – If you value alternatives to the mainstream media, and support in the common struggle against national psychosis, please consider supporting independent media such at this.

      The donate button is here.

      If you’re loathe to navigate the straits of PayPal, yet want to ensure this resource continues to be available. Using snailmail is available as an alternative. The address is:

      EPautos. 721 Hummingbird Lane SE. Copper Hill, VA 24079.

  24. Watching sports is an addiction and sports programming is just like playing slot machines. When there’s a big play you get a little bump of dopamine, which feels good (your lower function brain can’t tell the difference between watching someone do something and you actually doing it). Over the years, TV producers have fine-tuned the pace of play to get just enough, but not too much of a break between dopamine bumps to create a perfect storm of highs and lows that will keep you watching. Actually scoring points doesn’t matter, because you get the emotional response from the game activity (and manipulation of crowd sounds, etc), not whether or not the team actually wins.

    The MSM depends on football money to make their 3rd and 4th qtr budgets. There is literally billions of dollars at stake. Spending a few hours searching for degenerates who are willing to go on camera saying hitting women isn’t a big deal, just to influence public opinion, costs almost nothing and the payoff in free promotion is huge. I mean, even EPautos.com is discussing it.

    Everything about professional sports is just about money, yet we all pretend it isn’t. The biggest part of a cable bill (and majority of channels) is sports programming. The most expensive advertising time on television is during sports programming. The cities with pro fuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhttttttball teams are all held hostage by the cartel, with mob-like threats to take their tainted ballgames somewhere else, even though the taxpayers are left with the bill for the new Colosseums.

    Most hard core fans are in fantasy football leagues, basically a long-term gambling scheme. The little dopamine hit isn’t enough for them anymore, so they start to pay for the rush. For now Uncle turns a blind eye to this activity, but when the big casino companies get online gaming laws passed it will explode. After all, what’s the harm? It’s just for fun.

    If you’ve never been to Las Vegas, just seeing it all out front is worth the trip:

    At some point the NFL will go too far, and the media companies will push back. But as long as the addict is satisfied we’ll be stuck with it.

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