Get Ready to Cling . . . Tightly

Cadillac's Vehicle-to-Vehicle communications technology shares vehicles' locations, speeds, directions and traffic conditions up to nearly 1,000 feet away.
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For automated – note, not “autonomous” – cars to become other than a technocratic curiosity, to make the concept functionally viable on a mass scale, it will be necessary to eliminate cars that aren’t automated. That’s because the whole point of automated (not autonomous – which means independent) cars is to collectivize transportation.

To regiment and control it.

Cars that are still entirely under the control of the person behind the wheel do not fit into this matrix. They are outliers, the vehicular equivalent of a voluntary income tax – and we can’t have that, either.

Hence the proposal that all new cars be capable of so-called “vehicle to vehicle” (V2V) communication. That they be fitted with the technology to constantly transmit and receive data about their direction, location, speed and so on.

That this be made mandatory – like air bags.

V2V is a critical step toward the replacement of autonomous cars with automated cars – which must be aware (like the Terminator) of their environment, of the other cars within a certain radius of their position at any given moment. This in order to anticipate the need to alter course or speed to avoid impacting another car.

Which the car will do – without any input from you.

For saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety, of course.

That is how it’s being presented – and it’s on that basis it will be force-fed to us. Including those of us who want nothing to do with it. Can you say rip tide?

About half of all new cars already have or offer (it’s not yet mandatory) automated braking and steering “assist.” The car decides it’s necessary to stop – and applies the brakes if you don’t.

It steers itself in the direction it thinks is right.

The fully automated and therefore no longer autonomous car will come standard with these things. And for the potential of this technology to be maximized, all cars must come standard with these things – as well as the V2V ability to constantly chatter with all the other cars in the immediate vicinity.

And – the really Big Thing – they will chatter with a central hive brain of some sort. Which will coordinate and control the whole enchilada. The central hive brain will be in constant contact with – and in constant control of – all the automated cars.

Via V2V.

It’ll be like having a cop with a two-way radio riding shotgun – only worse because it will be a Super Cop. A single, central all-controlling cop who cannot be dodged – much less bargained with.

He will control the speed and direction of all the cars under his supervision. Decide when you will move at all.

Lovely, yes?

Which brings up the issue of autonomous cars that do not have V2V capability. Or automated “safety” systems.

They aren’t subject to supervision – much less control. They are wild cards, under the control of the person behind the wheel. He can accelerate as he likes – and brake as he likes and when he decides it’s necessary to brake.

His direction is random. Only he and those he chooses to inform know where he is going – and how he gets there is up to him.

He can elect to ignore stupid/arbitrary traffic laws such as those forbidding perfectly safe U turns and right-turns-on-red.

And he can “speed.”

Super Cop does not like this at all.

Truly autonomous cars –  that is, cars without V2V technology and not equipped with driver pre-empting automated driving technology – will have to be gotten rid of.

For saaaaaaaaaaaafety.

You can already hear the Fat Lady warming up her pipes. Picture Elon Musk with lipstick.

The DOT proposal does not say autonomous cars will be banned – not openly. But it is the necessary and logical conclusion of this whole putsch.

Automated and autonomous cars – oil and water. It has to be one or the other. It should be obvious which one the government and the corporations that increasingly might as well be the same thing (picture the Tyrell Corporation from the original Bladerunner movie) favor.

It is a control freak’s multiple orgasm.

The government will achieve the long-sought dream of ending free movement – at least, free movement by car. The squat, Beetle-like people that Orwell wrote about, who gravitate toward government, will know when you come and when you go and much more important, it will be within their power to determine how you go or if you go at all.

Corporations – the big car companies – will be able to put most of the population on the debit card merry-go-round. Whenever you want to go someplace, you click an app to summon a car and just as quickly (probably more quickly) the charge-by-the-hour will be deducted from your account.

Automated cars are nothing less than a kind of Metro Bus diaspora. As if the trains were able to leave the tracks and venture down sidestreets, but no less under the control of the conductor.

An epic fight is brewing – hopefully.

It is a fight that will pit Americans who cling to the idea of being autonomous – of being in control of their cars – and how they come and go – against those who do not understand that automated cars will be the end of their autonomy.

Many of the latter are foolish enough to believe that automated cars will free them, which is bizarre given the fact that their cars will be utterly controlled by someone else. They also foolishly imagine they will be whizzing along at high speed, getting to their destination much faster and more efficiently.

This is hilarious.

And, sad.

Think about any form of collectivized transportation and ask yourself how fast and efficient it is. Whether it is geared for speed – or the least common denominator.


Channeling Charleton Heston in the first Planet of the Apes (end scene):

They finally, really did it.

God-damn them all.

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  1. Leaving aside all of the high flown theorizing and ranting here, let’s look at the practical issues.

    How will this transition to automated vehicles be implemented? Probably via extra taxes/insurance on autonomous vehicles plus lane restrictions in large cities and certain freeways. In rural areas and small communities there is little benefit to self driving vehicles. But in crowded areas your loss of control will be much cheaper than otherwise. So there will be toll/tax and insurance incentives (“safer” right?).

    Also, at some point, licensing of drivers will be done via a two tier system. One for the masses with robot vehicles, the other for those who demonstrate “mastery” of their own driving ability. Gradually the fully drivable vehicle driver class will shrink. You will still have motorcycles, likely, as they are not as controllable by computers as autos. Large trucks will also be rapidly pushed into full control, with probable special lanes in congested areas and on toll ways/freeway lanes just for these. Likely closely packed but exclusive lanes.

    Also, the technical aspects will not be easily overcome. Large aircraft can now land fully via computer but many are not landed that way for many good reasons. Bad weather, computer breakdowns, power outages and deliberate sabotage (terrorism, remember?) will all be obstacles to full AI vehicle control.

    Some if this may be beneficial remember, fewer drunks, cell phone addicts/ texting monsters, speed demons, road rage drivers, etc. as well as clueless lost clovers and people who can’t drive or drive badly.

    Just pay attention to the transition plans, if you live long enough. AI can be a good thing so long as Big Brother/Sister aren’t actually pulling all of the strings.

    • Mugsy, even putting aside the political issues, whose gonna pay for all of this added/revamped infrastructure in a country that can not even maintain what it already has?

      And landing planes entails a relatively small number of possible scenarios/variables which have to be anticipated by the programmers. Cars on the other hand, can encounter almost an unlimited number of unforeseen/unanticipated scenarios, and those will be where the problems arise. The Tesla that couldn’t “see” the semi trailer because it saw undneath it, is a very simplistic example.

      Another simplisitc example is: How many times have you looked around a corner before or as you were turning, and saw something going on which alerted you to stop or take other evasive actions before completing the turn? Maybe it was something you saw; maybe it was something you heard first, that put you on alert- and that’s just another SIMPLE scenario.

      • The control devices and infrastructure will undoubtable be owned and operated by the government. That also means it will be badly neglected and ill maintained causing major problems. If its like my local commuter rail it will break down anytime the weather isn’t dry and 60-80 degrees. Yes, even rain can break it.

        • You live on Long Island, Rich? Sounds like the LIRR! The more money/”technology” they put into it, the worse it gets! 75 years ago, the trains would run in a blizzard with no problem. Today, a leaf falls on the tracks and the RR is screwed up for the rest of the day.

          • It’s the South Shore Railroad in Northwest Indiana. It’s powered by overhead wires, in some place the original installation (over 90 years old). Which of course shorts out in the rain, get blown down by wind and gets brought down by heavy snow and ice. It’s like they never expect it will happen, so they are caught with their pants down every time……

            If it wasn’t for a few of the stations in Chicago, it would have been dieseilzed decades ago, like the freight operations (going from electric to diesel) was.

            Its a survivor though, it managed to stay privately owned until 1989, and is the only remaining interurban railroad (it goes all the way to South Bend) left in the US.

            • Oh, THAT is understandable- as opposed to the LIRR- which was established before the Civil War- but is in one of the most expensive and most heavily taxed places in the country.

              When it was private (PENN RR) and steam, the trains always got through. When it was diesel and municipal, it was mediocre. Today, it’s mostly electric and diesel-electric; all modernized with the lastest BS- is the most heavily used commuter RR in the country- and it’s become a total joke.

              A mere conductor on the LIRR can make almost $200K a year (It’s all unionized and politicized), and the idiots who continue to live there pay between $10K-$20K a year in property taxes (!!!!) on the most modest homes; 8.5% sales tax; NY state income tax (highest in the country) and often a village or city tax. And with 5 layers of government, Hitler and Stalin would be envious of the level of control (They were mere amateurs by comparison)

              This is why we’ll never have a Libertarian society: When the 14 million people who live in that area are content to live like that…there is just no hope.

  2. The sad thing is you can’t escape it no matter where you go. You can go to a poorer country, but because of the condition of their roads speed is certain death.

    • I think that’s what keeps many people from going- they want all of the luxuries they’ve come to expect in the “first world”. Me? I don’t care. I’d be happy in a place with dirt roads where ya don’t even need a car. Networks of smooth-paved foads are pretty much the hallmarks of militaristic empires, and that is what I am trying to escape. Reliance on motorized vehicles and the infrastructure needed to support them has been one of the primary means of selling the idea of the state.

  3. At what point are we going to say enough is enough and get the hell out of here, and enjoy a little freedom in some deep jungle or thrid-world country, where the gov’t “officials” never are seen outside of the country’s biggest city or two?

    Do we just sit here and lament what “they” are always doing to us, until we are imprisoned/killed/unable to leave our houses? If so, then how are we any different than those who deny what is going on, or who cheer it?

    Of what value is Libertarianism/Anarchy, if all we deo is sit around and bitch? We KNOW what they’re doing; We know what is coming; if we don’t extricate ourselves, then of what value is having this knowledge?

    • Hi Nunzio,

      Bitching is necessary – the first step. Authority has to be de-legitimized before it can be successfully challenged. Hence, expose and ridicule it. You and I and the people here get it; it’s obvious. “The government” is just other people who think they have the right to forcibly control us. It’s preposterous, of course – but only because we have been de-conditioned. Most people are still conditioned. They hold “the government” in awe; they reverence authority – because it is authority.

      So, again, the first step is to expose authority for what it is – and the next steep (if the first is successful) is to deconstruct it.

      • Oh, I agree with ya, Eric. Trouble is: We’re not going to convert the 98% of people who see gov’t as legit; who vote for it, and who participate in it. At this late date, we can look back on all of human history, and see that things have only gone the opposite way of what we would have hoped for- i.e. the world has gone from anarchistic to authoritarian-collectivist; and it just keeps getting more so. What the majority of people are willing to accept today would spawned a mass instant rebellion even 100 years ago.

        Some of the founders of the US, like Tommy Jefferson, were at least somewhat on the right track- as were many of the pillars of the Confederate States- but the people couldn’t even handle that; even a minarchy was too much freedom for them- so now the majority view those who even hold the staid traditional views of the Founders as being “radical”.

        Libertarianism has grown a little lately- which is no surprise, as the mask and kid gloves are coming off of the Beast- but sadly, brute authoritiarian-collectivism has grown even more, as witnessed by the popularity today of socialism.

        And what’s more, NOW, not only are we battling human nature, but we are also battling human nature + a HUGE propaganda system, which affects almost EVERYONE today. A propaganda system whose function is to keep people ignorant and make them the enemies of autonomy and personal freedom.

        We can’t change/save the world. Even if we could, it wouldn’t happen in our lifetime. Me? I just want to get out from under the Beast and know what it is to live without Big Brother having determined everything I do.

        Speaking of which: Would you believe? I was talking to a guy who sells commercial lawn mowers the other day. He mentioned that because of the EPA, they no longer sell zero-turn mowers over [I think it was) 27HP here. He said “You have to go to Canada if you want a 30 or 32HP”……

    • Google ‘Dark Enlightenment’ and Menches Moldbug and you will find solace. In general libertarian principles are the most rational, simple, fair, sound and non violent. I embrace them fully. Unfortunately libertarianism is immiscible with the current political reality. Thus libertarians are left to simply complain or gear up for some ” last stand on the hill” (Moldbug’s words). This is the source of your frustrations. This IS what Eric and Lew Rockwell’s and so many other fine libertarian people are reduced to. It IS just complaining, with nary a broader plan to affect change. I do nOt say that out of disrespect because I respect so many of these libertarian thought leaders greatly. And education is the first step. But I won’t deny that which is clear to both of us. This is why you will find solace in the principles of Dark Enlightenment. They are rational, libertarian ideas that come with an actual plan to affect change. Ideas that apply all that is good about libertarianism and apply positive action to make products, laws, communities etc better by implementing libertarian ideas FIRST, doing libertarian things FIRST and letting them thrive on their merits, rather than saying “our way is better, your way is stupid and we have no tangible evidence to the positive to prove that” the current major trapping of Libertarianism. Why not DO the libertarian things first, let everyone see the superiority for themselves, and then say ” surprise, this is totally libertarian”? You probably won’t actually even have to say the “surprise”part because people will just get it and go along due to the sheer undeniability of it. Trump got elected President just by SAYING he was going to do some such things, but without directly labeling them as Libertarian. Dark Enlightenment proposes many such implementations and provides a template for many more. And they can be done right now, very easily, and (sorry to the professional complainers) without becoming a victim of that dreaded ‘state’.
      Given all that Libertarianism is and stands for it is first and foremost about action. Talking about it without doing anything is just being a different flavor of intellectual/academic. That is not what this ideology is about and the reason so many Libertarians like us have ‘no-battle’ fatigue from it. DE will give you a battle plan that can win…while still respecting the NAP of course. Hopefully it will satisfy your thirst for action.

  4. In NYC there is a war on cars, as they are increasingly banned from certain streets (were certain mom and pop shops then fail) and bicycle lanes are installed on even the smallest streets. Public parking spaces are taken away for new bus lanes, bicycle rental racks (not much used in the winter) and allocated parking for tiny rent by the hour electric cars. And then the heroes, hiding in shadows to write tickets for illegal parking when actually you were standing for a few seconds to drop someone off or waiting for a spot to open up. They go so far as to take a picture of your car with their cell phone and then send you a ticket in the mail. They lie and the city says pay up. They are city approved thieves. And let us not forget the exorbitant inspection fees, registration and insurance costs. And tolls, tolls, tolls- $20 bucks to cross a bridge! It cost more in tolls from NYC to Boston than it does in fuel. Large cities are the front line in the war on car ownership (especially by the middle class).

  5. By 2030 there will be no human drivers on the road – yes for our “safety”. That is the plan.
    Check out “Ben’s journey” – Mobility as a Service – for the technocratic wetdream –

    More than just V2V – there is V2I (vehicle to infrastructure), V2P (vehicle to people), etc. Everything will put off a signal.

    Why all the sudden talk about crumbling infrastructure? The infrastructure is not crumbling – but it does not have the proper technology in it.

    Welcome to 2030- I own nothing, have no privacy and life has never been better!

    Oh Brave New World.

    • A very dystopian future! I still remain optimistic that this is not a forgone conclusion as a result of Moore’s Law wrt technological advancements with automobile safety.

      I know older generations would resist but I fear that Millennials and the generation after them, will be less resistant – heck, they may very well fully embrace it!

  6. What about the “hybrid” paradigm where Smart cars – “automated” vehicles – merely inform the human operator of impending danger such as a vehicle 10 cars up on the highway losing control so the human operator can take action NOW, mitigating disaster or eliminating it entirely.

    I guess I’m desperately trying to find an appropriate application of this technology that also preserves our so-called freedom and privacy? Maybe I am too Pollyanish about it all.

    • Hi Michael,

      This gets back to drivers not paying attention – and not being skilled. Both of which have been encouraged for years. If a driver is paying attention – and has some skill – he will be ready to react to a developing situation and able to react just as or even more effectively than an automated car.

      • I suppose that’s mostly true – insufficient skills and a lack of paying attention to road conditions. But technology has made us safer on the roads – Yes, some mandated, others not. Witness the steady decline in road deaths in the U.S. since the 1960s after lapbelts were mandated. I’m as libertarian as they come – and detest the mandates – but there’s something to be said about the possibilities of improving safety in and of itself via technological progress.

        • I’m not buying it. Even modern jet airliners, despite their triple redundant systems, high engineering standards, and automated navigation and control, sometimes crash and burn. Both software and hardware can and does malfunction. That’s why airplanes will always have pilots, why trains will always have engineers, and why, in my opinion, fully automated cars will never replace autonomous vehicles except in limited trackways.

          • Hardware malfunction such as in flight control systems or engine failures are often due to poor maintenance and inspection. Many disasters could have been avoided through proper maintenance.
            Alaska Airlines once had one of the worst records for these failures.
            Of course there are other such accidents that include flying in poor weather conditions, pilots not qualified for IFR, flying in IFR conditions.
            Some plane such as the L10-11 were built with faulty cargo doors which opened prematurely.
            Many reason for aircraft crashes and incidents,: pilot error, ATC error, etc.

          • Steve,

            I think that they KNOW that “self-driving cars” will never be fully functional. In order for them to be so, they’d have to have some sort of transmitting device in EVERY traffic light in the country; Have to have the edges of every little street marked; have to have some sort of recognition device on EVERY single stop sign; have to equip every road work crew / traffic director with some sort of device that the car would recognize in order to be able to tell it what to do; etc.

            The idea of an entire country being retrofiited with such in order to make self-driving cars somewhat safe or even mildly workable, is just insanity.

            I think the whole idea is to use this as an excuse to firther complicate cars and make them even more disposable and expensive, and to push legislation that will cripple old cars, and human drivers. All with the excuse that they are paving the way for self-driving cars- but in reality, what will really be accomplished is paving the way for the elimination of private autonomous transportation by 2030.

            Like Obamacare and most other government BS these days…it’s meant to fail. It just gives them a convenient excuse to do things they would otherwise not be able to justify.

            And just think: They want to get rid of you? No more cutting brake lines or shooting you in the back and ruling it a “suicide”- they just hack your car to not see that tractor trailer…..

  7. If they build it, the public will come.

    Other than oddball resisters and minor grumbling, the people will lap all of this automation up. I garontee. Writers might express missing the good old days but shrug and chalk it up to progress. That’s why, at the risk of sounding like the old fart that I am, I’m against even the initial steps of high technology in cars. Those steps only lead one direction. There is no more public will to resist what’s happening to cars than there was concern about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis we killed in Iraq in the ’90s, which Madeleine Albright found so worthwhile.

    I can’t think offhand of a single major proposition or belief that the majority holds that I agree with. These are fell days, but at least I have the grim satisfaction of pointing out to libertarians such as Gary North that technology has not freed us, but is actively enslaving us. Eat your heart out, O’Brien.

  8. I suspect that driver-controlled cars will only be allowed for the police, military, and higher level chauffeured Gmen and Gwomen. For our safety, protection, and the greater good, of course.

    Never forget that some animals are more equal than others.

    • Kinda like how AR-15 rifles in the hands of civilians are labeled “assault rifles” and in the hands of police and military they are “patrol rifles”.

  9. Man this shit really worries me…. Though I don’t think they will ever be able to eliminate all non linked up cars (Sure there will always be people like me who will insist on driving a proper car, which you drive as you wish, ideally with a real manual box with 3 pedals)….. I think the problem will be when all (or most) of the other “cars” are wired into this bastard super cop thing through V2V….. the odd one out like me will be picked on even more by the government, and nagged and pestered into submission, our our lives just made miserable….. How?…. here in the UK we have CCTV everywhere and for everything, and most of it is linked to the national APNR network (thats automatic number plate recognition). So anytime you do something the government doesn’t approve of you get a fine in the post. (This way the government can keep earning, and the cops can keep eating doughnuts and filling health and safety and diversity forms). That said, if you are sensible and watch out for certain things you are ok and don’t normally get scalped….. Now – if most cars are linked, and SOME cars aren’t – I’m pretty sure the ones that are linked can (and will) very easily be used to track the ones that are NOT linked – grassing us to big brother…. or worse….. WITHOUT us even realising it. As all cars have cameras, it will be like having APNR security cameras everywhere…. with a particular focus on non-linked up cars…. Even scarier – as electric cars never really seem to turn off like a normal car does….. guess what even if something is just parked and sitting there….. it still has the ability to screw you over…….

    Or maybe this is just me being paranoid…..

    • Why exactly do you think they won’t ever be able to force you to do what they desire? The very definition of a government is that which forces you to do stuff, including paying them a chunk of your income, a chunk the size of which they decide.

      But they won’t be able to make you give up your self-driven car? Like seatbelts, ABS, airbags or crash helmets, for your saftee and the baybees they’ll just wave a limp hand and declare it a law, like gravity.

      It’s one of the reasons I like adventure riding on a motorbike so much – because I know future generations won’t be able to. I’m lucky, and making the most of it.

  10. The end game of automated cars reminds me an awful lot of feudal Japan where only official agents were allowed to use horses for transportation. The only way a regular person could travel via horsepower was if an official loaded them in a cage to be pulled along if the ruling class wanted to get them somewhere faster than they could walk.

  11. Years ago on the interstate, I saw an OTR semi-truck change into a lane that was already occupied by another car. Luckily the car driver had the wherewithal to quickly shift his car over to the shoulder and out of the way of the truck. When the truck was clear, the car driver moved back into his lane and continued on without incident. These days I wonder how that scenario would have played out if the car was a Tesla and the computer was tasked with deciding what to do. I personally think that car would have ended up under the truck.

    • I passed a 66 impala on the right. It was so heavily loaded with wetbacks it was almost dragging the making it quite low. The startled person behind the wheel swerved to the right nearly out of sight under the trailer. The wife asked where they were when I said “oh shittt”. I held a steady speed. A few days or possibly seconds went by and the car swerved back to the left then all over the place before proceeding more or less straight.

      I don’t need to guess what the new trucks of now would have automatically done, slam on the brakes.

      The closest thing to a new truck I’d want would be a glider kit.

      I got a lot of kudos for that move but would rather have avoided it altogether.

      45 years ago people rarely did really stupid stuff around a big rig but now it’s common to be passed and then have the 4 wheeler slow down. It’s as if they can’t stand to be behind a truck but don’t want to run that fast since it’s almost always someone you just passed
      Go figure

      • I agree with you 8. I have to wonder if schools even have the Drivers Ed course anymore. I live in a college town, so those kids should have been fairly recent graduates of that course. Why do they not know that they are supposed to pick a spot to accelerate and merge into as they enter a highway via a ramp? They seem to thing that the highway traffic should just make a space for them. Why would some idiot entering a highway immediately swing to the hammer lane, forcing traffic to slam on their brakes, so that he can pass the line of traffic entering the highway ahead of him? There also is considerably more people who will absolutely not dim their lights for oncoming traffic as well. I used to see this happen commonly only in New York state. Everywhere else all one had to do is briefly flash your brights at the oncoming offender and 90%+ of the time he would dim his lights. Now that New York style behavior is here in central Missouri.

  12. Holy Shit. Smiley Joe is retired criminal justice scientist who works for some high priced government think tank. J/K that’s some other Clover who frequents here.

    Here’s what I now know about Smiley Eyed Cotton Picking Joe

    His email links here

    And also here his email is on Sexy and Funny Forums

    We can all be sure Smiley Joe is incredibly Sexy and Funny now can’t we?

  13. I agree that eventually only autonomous cars will be legally allowed on the road (a big concern for me as my only vehicle is a motorcycle). However I can’t wait for autonomous cars. I do agree there are huge concerns about privacy (mostly from the gov), but with fully autonomous vehicles cops can start working on real crimes and less worrying about people breaking the obnoxious speed limits. Already some counties are concerned about how they will generate revenue. I think we can agree chocking our officials of our money is a good thing. We also must remember that though we enjoy driving it is very likely that our future generations won’t care. If we move to robo cars because that’s what people want. I imagine robo cars will be the only thing available on the market before gov mandates human cars illegal.

    Yes there are valid questions to be raised about our privacy and freedom to travel but it is important to still aknowledge the benefits of robo cars.

    • Hi Andrew,

      But try to imagine driving – being driven – at the pace of the least common denominator. Imagine what a trip anywhere would be like, if the laws – especially speed laws – were followed to the letter.

      It takes me 15-20 minutes to run down the mountain with me behind the wheel. If I had to drive – or be driven – the speeeeeeeeeeeeed limit, it’d take 30-45 and be stultifyingly boring.

      • H*ll it drives me crazy when I have to ride with a few folks who drive like old ladies. It’s like step on that pedal to the right, lets get there while we are young.

        The reason why self driving cars won’t go fast. There will still be pedestrians (and bicycles). “Planners” are hell bent on introducing or re-introducing them to places they don’t belong. Like HIGHWAYS!

        My stupid area wants to “redesign” the area around our regional mall and interstate exit to include things for “transportation” other then cars (price tag $50 million+). Never mind how many paths, circles, sidewalks, ped overpasses, restrictions on cars etc, nobody in their right mind is going to walk around there.

        Two reasons why: 1. Six months of the year, its simply too cold to be walking that far in an exposed area like it. Wind and rain alone will make walking in such an exposed area ridiculous. 2. The area is far too large for walkers. The mall property itself is as large as the Chicago loop. Ok, there are three 3. How are you going to take home your purchases without a car? Even people in the city don’t shop without a car.

      • So, you then admit to going twice the speed limit. As I always guessed, it’s about fun, not transportation with you. I suppose that you believe you are a super driver, and all the rest of us blokes are just in your way.Clover

        Everyday on the freeway (I drive little else) there’s a few jerks that pass me dangerously fast (I’m doing the 65 mph limit) and swerve in and out of lanes. I suspect that you would applaud this as a libertarian freedom. But it violates the NAP as far as threats go.Clover

        If you’re bored driving the same speed as the rest of us, perhaps it’s you and not us that is the danger on the roads. Sharing them with you would seem to be a danger I would like to see avoided.

        • I admit to driving at reasonable speeds; these just happen to be significantly higher than the dumbed-down/revenue-intended/least-common denominator speed limits you revere. Which have not changed appreciably in 50 years. Did you know that most U.S. highway speed limits in 1970 were… 70-75 MPH? That the highways were designed – in the ’50s – for average speeds in that range?

          In 1970, most cars still had bias ply tires on 15 inch wheels, drum brakes and leaf spring/solid axle suspensions. Today, the average car has 17 inch wheels, radials and four wheel disc brakes. If a 1970 vintage car was “safe” to drive at 70-75, then surely a 2017 (or 2007 or 1997) car is at least as “safe” to drive 80-85.

          If the speed limits you worship are reasonable, then why is it almost no one obeys them? Are two-thirds (plus) of the drivers out there reckless maniacs? Or are the speed laws absurd?

          PS: Why is it that Clovers invariably begin their perorations with “So”?

          Too much Dark Helmet?

    • From Andrew: “I think we can agree chocking (sic) our officials of our money is a good thing.”
      Not going to happen.

    • But Andrew, a key reason that cops don’t really try to fight actual crimes is because they always want to blame the high crime issue on lack of manpower. They rightfully fear that if actual crimes against people diminish, there will be calls to shrink the police department. The police chiefs and the local governments want to _grow_ the police department, not shrink it! Therefore; they place most of their manpower in petty traffic and code enforcement and generating income by extorting money from us.

      • Yesiree, Brian. This is one of the prime functions of the media, too: To scare people. Notice how they always leave out enough information on most crime stories to make the average person think that most crime is just random and “could happen to anyone”?

        The average person hears “Man found dead in secluded spot in park” and thinks “My Gawd!!! He was probably just walking through the park, minding his own business, and someone murdered him!!! We need more cops!!!”

        The reality [Which MAY briefly be mentioned months later if at all] is that the guy was meeting up with a stranger from Craigslist for some gay butt sex at 3AM.

        “Man shot while standing in driveway” – “Oh my Gawwwwd! Ya can’t even stand in your own driveway anymore without having to worry about somedrving by and shooting you…for no reason; there was no reason; the guy was just standing there and they shot him!!”

        Reality: The guy sold some drugs the night before and stiffed the buyer; or boinked someone else’s girl, etc.

        They do the same thing with medicine. Perish the thought you ever have an ache or painm, or crap some blood, or get scratched by an animal….YOU’RE LIKELY GOING TO DIE unless you go straight to the ER!!!!!

        “They” (Gov’t and the Zionist media who want big gov’t to rule the world) use fear as their primary tactic to control people and make them think that the state is protecting them. Of course, they never mention that the innocent person minding their own business is far more likely to have an encounter with and be harmed/killed by a cop than a criminal; or that the doctor and his prescribed drugs will probably do them more harm than any illegal drug…..

  14. And don’t forget that every time you sit in one of these things you’ll have to “agree” to a ELUA that basically says from a legal standpoint the manufacturer is every bit as amazed this thing works as you, and no way will they be held liable when it drives you off a cliff. And if you try to sue the lawyers for the manufacturer will load up the jury with idiots and convince them you caused the accident by not using Amazon Prime and VR goggles instead.

        • LOL. It’s the kneepad and crash helmet problem all over again. Kids get hurt riding skateboards. Mom makes them wear pads and safety gear. Now they don’t get hurt riding normally so they push the limit. Soon they’re getting hurt again.

          Cars are real, real safe. So now if I crash I don’t get hurt. Kids live in a world where not paying attention means you’ll just be late to your destination or maybe have a few hundred bucks worth of damage to your shitbox car. Thousands of bashed in hatchbacks and trunklids later and Washington decides to pass a law. Too late guys, damage is done.

  15. The words of Ayn Rand, after revision, are apropos here. Not her as an virtue signalling individual. But her as a vehicle for repopularizing once common sense that went nearly extinct along the same time as Sea Water Concrete here in the West.

    Look at the old monuments that still stand. Look at how fast modern concrete crumbles and disintegrates and reflect on what is real in our predicament. And what is transitory.

    Listen to Ancient Philosophers mostly forgotten. Not Socrates or the obvious ones who have been re interpreted. But Natural Philosophy. Which was in existence long before the Globalists concocted the whole batch of balderdash they today shill as “science.”

    In a few generations all the Globalists would die out. Here in America, Generation Z, though small and outnumbered by 3rd world low IQ savages, is sympathetic to our cries and shouts.

    In a very short time, all the collective ownerships could be retaken. No more national parks and public roads and all the commonwealth modernity bullshit that plagues us today.

    You own a few acres. But who really owns your neighborhood. Your platt. Your county. Who is the real power everywhere.

    I’m not saying its Jews like some mouthbreathing White Hooded cosplay hick. But that is close.

    It’s like in TommyKnockers.

    Everyone is Globalistically Becoming. But who are the extranational Aliens behind the fiendish dystopia. Seeing Semites and Old World Culture for who they truly are is only the start of your journey. Who we are began long before America or even what we today consider Europe.

    I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who deprives you of victims and thus is destroying your world

    That is who we are. Who we must be. Not unlike Jesus or Hitler or any other thought revolutionary. We must kill their ideas and institutions. Not by killing any single race or creed. But by bankrupting and alienating them, leaving them with only aging geezers, clinging to a mindset that no longer exists.

    Why are they perishing—you who dread knowledge—we are the mrn who will now tell you.

    Those on the internet looked closely at their screens. Ran to their YouTubes and struggled frantically with buttons and settings.

    But the screen remained empty of humanity; there was only the interior of a new car; the speaker had not chosen to be seen.

    Only his voice filled the airways of the young audience—of the emerging world, it felt as if he were speaking here, in this room, not to a group, but to one man; it was not the tone of someone addressing a meeting, but the tone of a mind addressing another mind.

    “You have heard it said that this automated electronic age is an age of moral crisis. You have said it yourself, half in fear, half in hope that the words had no meaning.

    You have cried that man’s sins are destroying the world and you have cursed human nature for its unwillingness to practice the virtues you duckspeak and virtue signal.

    Since virtue, to you, consists of abstinences and prohibitions. And of sacrifice, you have demanded more sacrifices at every successive disaster.

    “You have destroyed all that which you held to be evil and achieved all that which you held to be good. Why, then, do you shrink in horror from the sight of the world around you? That world is not the product of your sins, it is the product and the image of your duck spoken pride signalled virtues.

    It is your moral ideals brought into reality in their full and final perfection. You have fought for it, you have dreamed of it, and you have wished it, and now your imagined utopia has arrived.

    Your ideal had an implacable enemy, which your code of morality was designed to destroy. I have withdrawn that enemy. All product white patriarchs you loath have taken out of your way and out of your reach. EPAutos and sites like it worldwide have removed the source of all those evils you were sacrificing one by one. I have ended your battle. I have stopped your motor. I have deprived your world of the Western Man’s mind.

    “Men do not live by the mind, you say? I have withdrawn those who do. The mind is impotent, you say? I have withdrawn those whose mind isn’t. There are values higher than the mind, you say? I have withdrawn those for whom there aren’t.

    While you were dragging to your sacrificial altars the men of justice, of independence, of reason, of wealth, of self-esteem—I and my fellow internet cadres have beaten you to it, I reached them first. I told them the nature of the game you were playing and the nature of that moral code of yours, which they had been too innocently generous to grasp. I showed them the way to live by another morality—the one practiced since man’s earliest beginnings. It is Western Patriarchy and Techne that they have chosen to follow.

  16. Supercop: “We downloaded your onboard data. I’m not interested in your opinions. The man behind the curtain is printing out your ticket, I’ll be right back”

    Driver: “I was trying to escape the automated procession of automated cars that were headed to chop shop town. That’s the place where they rob you and strip your car of all its expensive automated controls for resale.”

    • Hi Green,

      I am baffled that more than 1 out of 10,000 people actually like the idea of automated cars. That 1 person being a hobbled/blind old person who otherwise would be housebound.

      What is the upside to losing our autonomy? To being controlled to the nth degree by the government and corporations?

      • We both know there is no upside. We’ll be traveling on the automated “train” to the next gulag.
        Our elder retired persons will be pooled with drunks and frequent violators and required to go autonomous in order to keep their mandatory insurance. That’s how I believe it will start.
        “Right to Repair” might not exist for automated vehicles…I can’t imagine the type of person to buy these cars would repair anything anyway.

  17. This is nothing more or less than more corporational control. Everything is done to maximize profit….and not two paragraphs into those whose spiel seems to be all for it, a basic income gets mentioned. And why wouldn’t it when the real goal is to put as much profit into the fewest pockets as possible. Soylent green gets closer every day.

    This is coming to trucking faster that you can dream it. That trans-Canada-Mexico corridor was nixed but they never slowed down building it and it’s huge through Tx. already. Volvo has their fully automated truck as does Freightliner. Of course, your favorite guy is there using our money already to build a fully electric truck of which he’s willing to let us continue to pay taxes till his infrastructure of an electrical grid for recharging is realized.

    But Musk is a realist and he’s let us buy him a sleek new big rig with natgas powered turbine powering 2000 hp and 3700 lb ft of torque via electric motors in his ready for market automated big rig. They’re almost typical looking now but that will change and containers, i.e., trailers will have fully automated power and steering, maybe as small as 3ftX3ft containers. The highways will be full of automated containers…..once our usefulness as IRS pawns is done. Then we’ll all be put on a “right to subsist” govt. mandated minimum of necessities. Of course we know where that leads(if you really can’t stand it the govt. will help you “opt out”…..more room for others with nothing to do in life but drink beer and watch football and eat at Mickey D’s).

    Of course by then Mickey D’s will truly be serving soylent green but don’t let that worry you. It’s certainly not worrying the politicians who intend to get enough from corporations to live a life you won’t be able to achieve without a badge or title…..and those of the badged crowd will be at the bottom protecting the titled and pols just as now…..and they’ll be glad to do so, robocop style.

    Yes it’s gonna be a great new world connected with an electrical grid and everything blah blah blah, right out of the mouth of Everett in O Brother, Where Art Thou? The Coen brothers definitely “get it”. Probably they are closet Musk fans but keep it on the down low.

    Yep, be prepared to be totally useless and have big corp tell you what you will do each day and for how long. Ah, the future looks…… hell on earth.

    • The NAFTA highway is going full steam. It’s all the rage in Nevada because of construction on Interstate 11.

      There is no Godly reason people in South Nevada need a faster way to get to Northern Nevada than now exists. And no money or traffic to speak of.

      Getting a truckload of Indonesian sweatshop made yarmulkes from Phoenix to Spokane a bit more cheaply, that’s a different matter.

      The whole thing reeks of Goldman Sachs and the United Nations Company Churchtown worldvision.

      • But Tor, Nevada is where all the testing of automated trucks has been done. I’m guessing it’s the lack of curves, hills and switchbacks where it’s been done and highway easily taken over for testing. Try that on I-20.

        One thing that strikes me is in every scenario of the automated truck a driver has gotten in and started it….conventionally, then put it into motion and on the hiway before switching to self-driving. In every instance the now passenger takes an iPad looking device from the dash and goes into the sleeper with it. What evil lurks in the heart of man? We’re finding out.

        • It’s probably cause Nevada is 90% federal land, highest percentage of any state.

          Also outside of like 90 total townships or municipalities in a huge state, there’s absolutely nothing anywhere. Plenty of visibility. And no one is driving through that nothingness on there way to anywhere except I 15 I 80 US 95 and very few other roads of any kind.

          Esmerelda Cty is the most barren of people in the US except for Loving County.

          Southern Nevada is an LA suburb.

          Northern Nevada/Capitol is a Sacramento suburb.

          Rest of its the reddest of the red. Good news weed is now 53 bucks / eighth oz. Maybe it will stabilize nearer to prev street value eventually.


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