Without Help From Uncle

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Why don’t cars that make sense make it?

Five years ago, Paul Elio bought up a shuttered GM assembly plant In Shreveport, Louisiana with the intention of using it as home base for the manufacture of a low-cost/high-economy car – the kind of car no other car company makes anymore. Instead of $12k and maybe 40 MPG on the highway – the best you can get in a new car sold by any other manufacturer – the Elio would average at least 80 MPG and sell for less than $8,000.

Such a car makes all kinds of sense.

At a stroke, it would cut the cost of getting around by car in half – minimally. Keep in mind that the least-expensive new car being manufactured right now, the one referenced above, is the Nissan Versa. Most new cars cost significantly more. The average price paid for a new car is currently well over $30,000 – and the average new car averages a great deal less than 40 MPG, on the highway or otherwise.

It would also render many “alternative” fuel cars irrelevant; make them look even sillier as economic and functional and even environmental propositions than they already do. The Elio’s “carbon footprint,” for instance, is so small it’s hardly there.

Which is why the Elio faces every kind of obstacle imaginable to prevent its manufacture.

Unlike the manufacturers of those other cars, which make no sense at all – including environmentally-speaking – and so are given every artificial advantage (via government) imaginable.

Electric cars.

It is doubtful anyone would by them at a price which reflected their true cost to manufacture, absent all the manufacturing subsidies, including sweetheart deals/financing on their manufacturing facilities – such as the $1.3 billion the taxpayers of Nevada were compelled to provide the billionaire crony capitalist Elon Musk to finance the battery plant for his electric luxury-sports cars. As well as the retail ones, including not only the tax breaks dangled in front of buyers of the cars but also on the “fuel” they use – the electricity – which isn’t subject to any motor fuels taxation (for the moment) and often literally given away for free (well, at taxpayer expense) at so-called public charging stations, to further nudge the electric car into general use.

Elio enjoys no such help.

Not that such help ought to be provided  – to Elio or Tesla or any other manufacturer. But neither should they be hindered by Uncle.

Elio has been. Because of what it is – and isn’t.

The prototype is something in between a motorcycle and a car. The driver and passenger sit one behind the other, as on a bike. But it’s not a single-track vehicle (front and rear wheel in line and just the two of them) like a bike. It has two wheels up front, pontoon-style and a third single wheel out back. So it drives like a car. You turn the steering wheel. The car does not lean in the curves, as a bike does. The occupants also sit inside a fully enclosed and air-conditioned cabin, a major point of difference vs. a bike.

But if it’s a car, then Uncle insists it conform to all the regulatory fatwas which apply to that category of vehicle – including offset barrier impact and roof crush fatwas, which are very hard fatwas for a vehicle with a pontoon-style front end and ultra-light construction (the Elio weighs a mere 1,200 lbs., just slightly more than a full-dress Harley or Honda Goldwing and about half as much as the very lightest new cars) to conform to.

They are also hard for a shoestring operation without an IV line to the taxpayers’ purse (and fatwas mandating that people buy their product, or at least, that a fixed number be manufactured and offered for sale each year) to comply with on a more basic level. A shoestring operation can’t afford to destroy – in crash tests – a dozen prototype cars to see how they perform (or not) and then revise accordingly – and crash test again.

This is what’s called regulatory capture.

The crony capitalist Bigs favor it because they can afford to throw away a dozen vehicles in crash tests – and they know a shoestring operation like Elio cannot afford it. But the small operations still must comply with the fatwas, else their car isn’t legal to sell. It’s a beautiful Catch-22, from the standpoint of the Bigs. They – and their enforcement arm, the government – aren’t outlawing competition, per se. They simply make it impossible to compete, via regs that can’t be complied with for economic reasons.

There’s another problem for Elio.

If it’s classified as motorcycle rather than a car – which would exempt it from many of the fatwas which apply to cars – then the fatwas which apply to motorcycles apply.

Including the one decreeing that a helmet must be worn when “riding.” This is a state-level fatwa – and not all states have the fatwa – but most do. If it is applicable to the Elio – as it is applicable to another “car” that makes sense, the Polaris Slingshot – it means buyers would have to wear helmets to drive it, else risk tickets. Most people shopping for a car – whether four wheeled or three – do not want to have to wear a helmet while driving. So Elio faces the necessity of qualifying as a car – which means having to comply with the fatwas which all cars must comply with.

Meanwhile, electric cars get away with having Burn Notice lithium-ion battery packs that contain reactive chemicals which not only burn when they come into contact (as when the battery pack is damaged in an accident) but also burn in a different and more dangerous way than gasoline does. But electric-specific saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety fatwas have not descended. The electric car is effectively given exemptions from having to be “safe,” because the government (and the crony capitalists making bank on the scam) want electric cars on the road and seem willing to overlook almost anything when it comes to them.

Which explains why electric cars are being manufactured – and the Elio is not.

. . .

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64 COMMENTS

  1. If I get it right Elio is produced in Louisiana. Lousiana gets the same Senators and Representatives as any other state. If they chose not to get any subsidies for Elio, so be it. Elio also spent a bunch of money in Michigan getting their engine designed. Tesla is heavily subsidized by the California and Nevada congressional delegations no someone named Uncle. I personally thought the auto states and the UAW should have thought things through and aided Elio, but they didn’t. It is possible the US auto industry could have dominated the Elio category. Perhaps Polaris will buy Elio, it would sort of make sense.

    • It is not that Elio should get subsidies but that GM, Ford, Chrysler, Tesla, etc. should not.

      I also suspect that the Elio plant will not be UAW, so why would they cheer him on?

      The “Greens” hate all IC engines so no help there. Of course, most Greens hate people for that matter.

      The cards are stacked against him and I give him a lot of credit for persisting in what he knows is a good business plan. Many would have tossed in the hand and gone home by now. (I have watched his hair go gray during the process.) I may not live long enough to buy one, but if I do, I will be a customer when they show up. So far, the best I could do is to invest in the company. I bought low, held high, and am currently underwater. I will stick it out until it either sinks or swims. Because I believe.

      Besides that, he and I went to the same little engineering school in Flint, 33 years apart.

  2. Not sure how that was posted as anonymous but this comment is from me, skunkbear.

    And just for the record while I was born a northerner I, like many northerners, detest the Yankees as much if not more than southerners do.

  3. The term “racism” was invented by communists, and is used to destroy cultures and defuse (and render impotent) those with differing points-of-view on “racial” issues.

    True “racism” is desirable as it merely cements cultural and social bonds that are necessary for a society to function and flourish.

    True “racism” merely denotes commonality of purpose and advancement within each respective racial group.

    Blacks have the NAACP and Congressional Black Caucus, Hispanics have La Raza and Mecha, Jews have the $PLC, ACLU and ADL. These are all “racist” organizations that serve to promote the interests (and political power) of their respective races.

    It is only whites who are castigated and threatened for attempting to show any signs of racial solidarity.

    Let’s look at what us “evil, privileged” whites have done for Western society and the world:

    1. “Civil-rights (for some)” laws (that effectively destroy “freedom of association” for whites, but not for other races) and do not apply to whites–only “people of color” are covered by these so-called “civil-rights (for some)” protections.

    2. “Affirmative action” policies (that push better qualified whites out of positions and jobs that they would ordinarily qualify for) in favor of lesser-qualified minorities. In fact, “affirmative action” policies actually damage those minorities who are quite capable of “making it on their own” because they get “lumped in” with the groups that cannot make it on their own without “help”,

    3. “Contract set-asides” (that are specifically targeted for minorities (that white people are prohibited from bidding on) and immigration policies (that specifically exclude whites, most of who have skills that would benefit the USA) in favor of those from the third-world (with no marketable skills).

    4. Scholarships that specify particular ethnic groups are looked upon favorably by most people, save one–scholarships that are intended for whites only are looked upon as being “racist”, and therefore impermissible and improper in today’s racially-charged climate of “political correctness”.

    NO OTHER RACE (BUT WHITES) HAS (EVER) BENT OVER BACKWARDS to assure that all non-white races receive a “fair shake” in being a part of American life, even to the detriment and social well-being of “our own kind” (whites).

    Whites possess an externalized altruism that no other races possesses. This externalized altruism that “looks out for the other guy” will be the demise of the white race. This altruism needs to be internalized and focused inward, just as other races have done. There is NO SHAME in looking out for one’s own kind.

    “Multiculturalism” and “diversity” are code-words for white genocide.

    I blame those of the “greatest generation” for selling out our birthright with the passage of the “Civil-Rights Acts” of 1957 and 1964, and the “Hart-Cellar immigration act of 1965”. To those of the “greatest generation” (who are still alive) thanks for NOTHING…

    Let’s not forget that “freedom of association” (but only affecting the white majority) was eviscerated by the enacting of these clearly unconstitutional acts.

    As whites comprise only 6% of the world population, it is us whites who should be the most protected and cherished of minorities…

    A number of years ago, a survey was taken among college students who were “people of color”. The question was posed “What if all white people disappeared tomorrow”? After careful soul-searching, one student finally spoke out: “we’d be screwed”.

    When I am called “racist” for my even-handed stance on racial issues, I profusely thank my accusers while shaking their hands, and “thank them for noticing”. The incredulous, confused looks on their faces speaks VOLUMES.

    The term “racism” has lost its sting. Fatigue brought on by the rantings of “people of color” no longer matter and should be ignored.

    • Hi Anarchyst,

      At the risk of slings and arrows (which I’ve stopped worrying about, a long time ago) I think it is very important to parse this “racism” business. By which I mean deconstructing the package-dealing of the term to encompass preference for people of one’s own tribe – so to speak – with the notion that one also wishes to harm/denigrate those not of one’s tribe.

      As a Libertarian, I defend the idea of free association – based on whatever reason. My “crew” – the people I call my friends – are an eclectic bunch; we associate because we have common interests and enjoy each other’s company. I feel no guilt/moral obligation to “include” people who do not mesh with my crew – but at the same time, it doesn’t enter my mind to be mean to or harm anyone on account of that or for any other reason excepting them being mean to or harming me first.

      So, I am okay with – as an example – the black frat at my college. Why not? They have every right to have a frat based on whatever criteria they choose. It is also ok- or rather, none of my beeswax – if a different frat (or club or whatever) wishes to admit only women or gays – or any mixture of whatever they want. Including a “whites only” frat or whatever, if that’s their desire and it’s their frat/club or whatever.

      That, to me, is the core issue here.

      Free association and non-coercion.

      For everyone.

      You don’t have to like everyone – and you’re free to dislike anyone for any reason – so long as you respect their right to be left in peace and do them no harm.

    • Another superb post Anarchyst. Whenever I am called a “racist” I always reply, “Yeah. So what?” The look on the accuser’s face is that of someone who just got the wind knocked out of them by a cannonball. Priceless.

      Although I think “breedist” is more accurate. Humans like all other animals have different breeds within the species. A chihuahua is a dog and so is a malamute. But there are vast differences between the two.

      Trying to make a malamute into a “purse pet” while trying to make a chihuahua into a dog sled puller is not just idiotic it is cruel to both dogs.

  4. There is a Canadian company called Electra Meccanica producing the Solo, a similarly designed three-wheeled electric through an almost identical reserve system with an MSRP at $15,500 that is honoring Elio deposits, and has already begun shipping out the first productions to purchasers.

    • Hi Spaz,

      At $15k, the Electra makes a lot less sense than the Elio. For that sum, you can buy any of several current subcompact economy cars that seat 4-5 people and are much more practical. The $15k price also greatly negates whatever fuel economy advantage the Electra has.

      What’s cool about the Elio is that it costs half as much as the least expensive new cars, gets more than twice the mileage. That makes it a game changer vs. any other new car I know of.

    • The Solo’s initial production run wasn’t even going to offer aircon, either, if I recall correctly. (I think it was promised as an option for later buyers.) No aircon is a deal-breaker in large swaths of the country if it’s supposed to be a serious consideration for a daily driver or commuter model.

  5. Actually, there haven’t been many real issues so far with regards to motorcycle-versus-car regulations interfering with Elio as yet. In fact, most states have been fairly accommodating, creating a category of “autocycle” (three wheels, enclosed cabin, seatbelts & airbags) which doesn’t require a helmet (the argument is the increased mass effectively imparted to a head by a helmet would actually increase risk of neck, spine and nerve injury in a vehicle with three-point restraint and airbag(s)) or a motorcycle endorsement. (I think there’s a holdout state somewhere where minors would be required to wear a helmet, still. Going from memory, here.) EM in fact stated they wanted to perform their own crash testing as equivalent assessments, since the NHTSA tests for cars- by their definitions- could not be performed the same way as with conventional cars due to the outrigger front wheels- namely off-center frontal impacts. (Hitting the wheels and covers first instead of the car body directly would definitionally violate the test bounds, leading to invalid or failed results regardless of the substantive outcome of the tests.) I haven’t heard much more on that in some months.

    They’re qualified as a motorcycle federally, but as an autocycle (newer category) for plating, licensing, helmets, etc., in pretty much all the states. Last I knew, only Maine, New York, and Alaska were holding out in for motorcycle endorsement, and Maine for an age-restriction on no-helmets.

    Similarly, maybe a 1.5 years ago, their engineering goals stated that they could qualify under federal emissions regs for motorcycles, but would meet automotive standards before production. It seemed to imply they’d pass the first hurdle for regulatory qualification rubberstamp, and pass the second for insurance against future regulatory scrutiny and for long-term appeal. Also haven’t heard much about this since.

    The far more damaging regulatory interference has come primarily from Louisiana harassing Elio Motors over licenses for this, that, and the other thing. (Licensing to be a dealer, licensing to manufacture, licensing to test prototypes… Shreveport politicians in particular have a habit of throwing apoplectic fits every few months and alleging promises made that never were, then sputtering in impotent but negative-PR-producing rage.) The adjudicating body regarding dealer licensing violations in LA, for instance, is manned entirely by dealership owners, and they aren’t too keen to see any competition, predictably. /This/ is where the bulk of the obstinate government meddling has been. Raising initial capital has been the other significant obstacle- ‘sexy’ Tesla draws capital to be thrown away easily, but apparently few find this vehicle or company similarly attractive, the beauty of simpler engineering solutions being greatly underappreciated by the masses, instead drawn to dazzling but needless complexity of design.

    None of this can anticipate what regulatory shenanigans might come in the future, of course, from state or federal governments.

    One last correction: Elio Motors did not buy the plant, but rather leases space in the plant. (An important distinction, as some of the Shreveport politicians’ periodic caterwauling and misrepresentation of contracts only works with no appreciation for the difference.) They also helped in getting Hyundai Dymos to lease their own space in the plant, as the plan at the time was for Hyundai to become the supplier (on-site) for their seats. (Likely not the only factor, but EM played a part.)

    Anyway, thanks for the article! Elio’s financials make me a bit pessimistic, but I love the concept of their vehicle, and I wish more people would grok proper compromise between innovation and engineering conservatism generally. Always a good read or three when I visit.

    • Texas passed their Autocycle law about 3 years ago. Surprisingly, they didn’t require a motorcycle endorsement – you can drive one on a plain old Class C license.

      – designed to have when propelled not more than three wheels on the ground;
      – equipped with a steering wheel;
      – equipped with seating that does not require the operator to straddle or sit astride the seat; and
      – manufactured and certified to comply with federal safety requirements for a motorcycle.

      http://www.dps.texas.gov/director_staff/media_and_communications/pr/2015/0610b

      Helmet requirement is the same as for motorcycles, so if you’re under 21 you’re going to need one – adults can go without.

  6. Can this be purchased as a “kit car” – final assembly by the end user? that should get around a lot of the fatwas.
    Or purchase the VINs from the cars that Volkswagen is crushing and use them for salvage titles of, as you suggested, diesel powered Elio.
    I just purchased a 2000 Ford Windstar with 93000 miles to replace a 2000 Grand Caravan that lost a waterpump at 231,000 miles.
    I cannot imagine going 40K into debt to get a car newer than 2012. This is in large measure due to the information shared on this site, verified by other sources.
    Thanks for all your help Mr. Peters

    • Interesting idea. That’s the way King Midget started out, selling kits, then later they got into selling the finished product. Surprisingly it was not Uncle that forced them out of business, at least not entirely. (Though no doubt that would have ultimately happened had the company found a way out of its other woes. No way would they have been able to comply with the oncoming safety and emissions fatwas with their very basic, lightweight vehicles.)

      It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a King Midget on the road.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Midget

      • Hi Jason,

        I suspect the moment such a manufacturer began selling more than a handful of cars, Uncle would do exactly that… “step in”… for our saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety, of course!

    • Beware of the Windstar all the multitude of Aerostars and Windstars sitting in backlots around here had the same cooling system problems( Number was probably lack of maintenance) just saying , hope you got a good one .

      • Right you are, Kevin…. Lack of maintenance, because everything on those damned turds is so hard to get at, that the simplest prodedure was an ordeal, and/or extremely expensive…..so people just drove ’em into the ground, and never fixed anything, much less did any scheduled or preventative maintenance.

  7. I realize mandatory helmets inside an enclosed cabin don’t make much practical sense and have marketing drawbacks, but when the alternative options are to comply with automotive regulations (which are cost prohibitive and negate it’s virtues) or undertake an additional burden through the legal system of vehicle classification, wouldn’t it just be more productive and expedient to go forward with the motorcycle classification and then work on changing the regulations?

    • Hi Spaz,

      I think you and I and people like us could work with it; the problem is most people looking for a car probably wouldn’t want to deal with it.

      It’s such a shame.

      Incidentally, imagine this 1,200 lb. car with a diesel engine…

      • Can you say 90 mpg?
        On the Elio, I watched an interview with this Guy He gave out some bad vibes. I was hoping He could it, now I wonder if He really even intended to.

    • Wearing a helmet with a harness without suitable head and neck restraint is a recipe for disaster. Ask Dale Earnhardt. Oh, that’s right…

  8. Because affordable transportation ownership does not keep banks rolling in cash and assets, mortgages do. Because endless personal debt means endless servitude and taxes for Uncle, as well as the corrupt State agencies. Because a bankrupt, self, angry, road-raging, subjugated public can’t organize a cohesive opposition to all the corrupt government agencies that keep them shackled.

    • Amen. It’s a sick cycle that cannot really be broken using the powerless voting box. I am thankful that I have very little debt and am getting ready to pay most of it off. I drive a 15 year old Lexus that performs like a new one. It will be on the road another 15 years if I have anything to do with it.

      • Hi Swamp!

        Agreed… it’s going to take a change in attitudes. And that’s really all it would take. Imagine if say half the people in the country decided to live as we live, below our means – not buying things we an’t afford, eschewing debt.

        Overnight, things would change for the better.

        The government, for instance, could not continue to impose cost-adding mandates because the price of cars would rise too high for most people to afford and the cars would just collect dust on dealership lots.

  9. The US is in debt, is conducting multiple wars, is a police state, is flooded by illegal immigrants, and has become immoral.

    Racists think all the problems would be fixed if the Jews, Muslims, illegal immigrants, and blacks were killed off.

    The problem with racists is that they think white people are not responsible for the US collapse.

    Do Jews outnumber white people?

    Can’t white people start media companies, movie studios, and stock markets?

    If Jews tell you to go in debt, do you blame yourself or Jews?

    If Jews tell you to be immoral, do you blame yourself or Jews?

    On the other hand, racists do have free speech rights and what if the racists are correct?

    Wouldn’t you like to know if Jews wanted to divide the wealth of the world among themselves by planning to kill off white people with debt, wars, tyranny, regulations, taxes, welfare, obesity, illegal immigration, drugs, suicides, feminism, homosexuality, and immorality and then send the rest of the weak liberals to the gulags to be starved and killed?

    Why does everyone laugh when someone says Freemasons or the Pope controls the world, but anyone who blames the Jews gets banned, censored, or arrested?

    Think.

    https://30chan.org/index.html

      • Swamprat, respectfully disagree. Race matters. Always has and always will. Whites need to re-remember this.

        Free Speech is onto it. Whites are under attack. It is not only clearly visible it is obnoxious and in-your-face. The solution – the only solution – is peaceful separation.

    • All one has to do is look at the prosecution and imprisonment of Ursula Haverbeck and Monika Schaefer, both 80-plus year-old grandmothers who do not succumb to “the greatest lie ever told”…Yes, they are both imprisoned in high-security prisons in Germany for not thinki9ng correctly.

      • Hi Anarchyst,

        I am also disgusted by this. Regardless of what one says, one has a right to say it. If what one says is despicable, others have a right to shun the sayer. If what one says is factually incorrect, others have the right to correct it. If it can be proved to be libelous, then others (those libeled) have every right to pursue compensation for provable damages, via the courts.

        But this idea of using the law to impose sanction on what amounts to ThoughtCrime is frightening.

        • Eric.
          Making opposing views illegal is how a lie becomes the truth. Remember, there are many government officials and influential people who want denial of man-made climate change a jailable offence.

          • Amen, Doug…

            To quote Elwood Blues (or was it Jake?)… I hate Nazis… but, let them (let anyone) say whatever they like. To criminalize opinion is outrageous; more so than holding an offensive opinion. And if we permit “offensive” to become the standard for forcibly silencing opinion, then any opinion – whether actually obnoxious or not – can be silenced.

      • Anarcyst, those two ladies, and all the others who have been locked in cages for thought crime (and that is exactly what it is), are political prisoners. No free people should tolerate this ever.

    • >”Racists think all the problems would be fixed if the Jews, Muslims, illegal immigrants, and blacks were killed off.”<

      True- that wouldn't solve all problems- but it would sure be a good start!!! 😉

      White people's ignorance can is illuminated by the fact that they are the ones who although the majority, let these their overlords foist these people upon their countries [It doesn't matter what people- but just the fact that they use "diversity" to weaken a society and it's once homogenous common culture]; and so many white people have bought into "political correctness" and are thus agents of censorship, thought-policing, and multi-culturalism….who are allowing inferior/different cultures to destroy and degrade their own.

      The facts are:
      If we had no blacks, we would have at least a 75% reduction in violent crimes, and there would be no burnt-out destroyed inner-cities (This is something you only see where there are blacks!)

      If we had no Jews and if so many "Christians" weren't Zionists, we would have 90% fewer wars, and our country would not be bankrupted by the military-industrial complex.

      If we had no Muslims, there would be no excuse for "anti-terror" security-surveillance state that the overlords have erected…

      Back when whites and traditional "Christian" European culture were still practiced by 97% of the people of this country, this wasn't a bad place.

      Now it reeks worse than shit-holes these Mongoloids come from!

      • Nunz, do not forget the amount of tax dollars that could be saved and the effect it would have on the economy as well.

        But let me be clear, us non-cucked Whites are not calling for the killing of anyone. We are not calling for suppression of anyone. What we are calling for is for us to have our own nation(s) – and for everyone else to also have their own nations as well. Peaceful separation with honest win-win commerce is the only hope for humanity.

        • Exactly, SkunkyB. (Ooo! Sorry- didn’t mean to make you sound like a rapper!)

          That’s where collectivism comes into the mix: They [i.e. Uncle and the liberals] couldn’t just leave us alone and let us be free to do bidness with whom we choose; to rent our properties to whom we choose; to form communities amongst and for ourselves, etc. Oh, NOooooo!

          Whether it’s new immigrants coming in, or people* who were brought here hundreds of years ago by others with whom 99% of us have no connection, it’s not enough just to force us to pay for various programs and services for them…instead, they force us to “integrate” them into our lives.

          If you don’t like Swedes and don’t want to rent to; hire; do business with a Swede, no one will care. But do it with a member of one of the protected classes, and watch out! And there’s no telling who they will induct into the ranks of the protected classes next. Maybe people with tattoos, or pedophiles (it’s coming!), or mimes….and then they too get special privileges at our expense- both financially, and at the cost of our liberty.

          I agree though- not advocating killing anyone…just let them be. And let us be. Of course, in the end, the result would be similar, because “they” have a long record of killing their own people; and the ones who don’t die from crimes committed by those of their own race, would either OD or starve without intervention……

          But yes, in a nutshell, that IS Libertarianism: Just let everyone be- them and us. The only reason their are “race relation problems” is because they try and force dissimilar people together. (And the ones who try and do the forcing, just happen to be the ones who are most insulated from the environments where that forcing occurrs!)

          *= https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ayL248X_700b.jpg

          • Nunz, it is simply amazing to me how anyone can believe that “Diversity is our strength”. I have yet to hear any reasonable explanation as to exactly how this is so. Not even close.

            “Diversity” of course is simply code for anti-White.

            And yeah, it is interesting how those who push “vibrancy” on everyone else are the biggest NIMBY hypocrites you will ever meet.

            • SB, what ever the skools and the media preach, the masses believe. Just utter a short catch-phrase over and over enough times, and 97% of the population will come to believe it- even something as absurd and illogical as “diversity is our strength”. That’s as bad as “They’re fighting for our freedom”!

              And of course the muckity-mucks and social engineers don’t really believe that, because they don’t advocate it for other cultures- but rather, just for whites.

              Try foisting “diversity” on Zimbabwe or India, and see how fast they’d be up in arms crying “cultural destruction” and “genocide!”, etc.

              For some reason, “diversity” only works in North America and Europe.

              Look at what the niggers in South Africa are doing to the whites now- killing them and taking their land- and yet not a word about it in the media; and New Zealand has to take the white refugees, because Donald Trump and Con-gress are too busy “diversifying” this country to be concerned with or even mention them- but imagine if the SA whites were killing the schvatzes? Holy cow! We’d be bombing the place and there’d be 24/7 coverage on TV!

              I got to see the imposition of “diversity” 1st-hand, being in NYC in the late 70’s and early 80’s. NYC had always been the “melting pot”- but the people who used to come had a common or similar culture and values and religion- i.e. Poles and Germans and Czechs and Italians and Irish, etc.

              I was there to see the change from THAT NYC, to one where dissimilar people from all over the world were now being encouraged/allowed to come, and Europeans curtailed…..and while the whites were taught to accept this and bow to it, and be inclusive….the new foreigners were/are very clannish- they rightly WANT to live am ong and associate mainly with their own people, who share their own customs and languages, etc. (Except when it comes to money, or free services, then they suddenly want to be an accepted part…)

              So basically, by the mid 80’s, any few remaining conservatives had been driven from NYC- because to have other people artificially elevated and given privilege, at your expense, while you and your people are denigrated IS the ultimate discrimination. But of course, the liberals would have everyone who doesn’t know any better think that they left because they are “bigots”….

              Just like when the government turned decent working-class neighborhoods into slums in the 60’s and 70’s by building huge housing projects and dumping tons of welfare recipients in the ‘hoods via HUD Section 8- filling the places with massive crime virtually overnight and destroying property values, so that poor working whites and those living on meager Socialist Security had to flea to the ‘burbs- often just abandoning their homes- and then their children were told that they were ignorant racist bigots who panicked because they saw a negro!

              In reality, I have no problem with anyone who may share my values. I have a black friend who makes more sense than most whites; and the Turk that my niece dated was the only guy she ever dated whom I liked (In fact, he was too good for her). -But I like to make it clear from day one, when KI meet some “minority” that I am definitely not in the camp of the self-depricating kiss-the-ass-of-every-other-culture white boob which seems to be the norm these days.

              (Hmmm…Turdpress must be detecting the political-incorrectness- I can’t seem to stay logged in!)

              • “They’re fighting for our freedom”!

                LOL! That and “serving your country” are mindless nonsense.

                Hate to admit it but I too believed that bullshit 30 years ago. It took a war to get me to see things in their real perspective. It is interesting though how once one first discovers one lie it is then easier to spot the other patterns of lies, propaganda, and deceit.

                A great mental game to play is Spot the Lie. It goes without saying that the Idiot Box is simply a deceit machine. (It is not what Philo Farnsworth had in mind when he invented it. I would bet that if he could have seen the future of TV he would have burned his design plans himself.) So the TV is a great place to begin to learn how to recognize and see through the deliberate deceptions – to learn how to think critically, actually.

                Question Everything by asking the one lynch pin question, Is this True? The enlightening yet frightening thing is how often the answer is No.

                • That’s why I don’t watch TV- of all things, TV and radio are pure mind-control. Out-right lies; lies of omission; comingling of lies and a hair of truth; making you think “This is what everyone else believes….get with it!”; Repeated ex;posure t5o nonsense and perverse things to desensitize and make them seem normal and acceptable; repetition of catch-phrase lies over and over, until you just mindlessly believe them/don’t question them; emotionalizing of everything so that you don’t apply logic and critical thinking to it; hypnotic imagery and sounds; ….and more, and all made to seem like it’s being provided by a trusted friend, who is entertaining us.

                  It has got to be the most demonic thing to ever exist in the history of the world.

                  I don’t know what it is with me, but I started catching the lies when I was very young- single digits. Used to watch the 10 O’clock news- it was the Vietnam era….

                  I just kept thinking “What the heck has this got to do with US, and something must be seriously wrong, because the adults and all of the big muckity-mucks can’t even agree on it!”

    • The area that jews excel the most (and should be commended for) is their social and cultural insularity. Yes, race and culture do matter. It is human nature for our human “subspecies” to congregate and “hang out” with their own kind.
      The trouble with jews is that they reserve social and cultural insularity for “their own kind” while insisting that everyone else adopt and conform to the socially and culturally destructive “multiculturalism and diversity” mantra.
      This one “divide and conquer” tactic that they use puts them right in the crosshairs for resentment and outright hatred directed against them. They seem not to want to know the reasons why there is so much resentment directed towards them.
      The situation in Israel is a prime example of “do as I say, not as I do”. They have erected border walls, discriminate against gentiles (non-jews) and arabs by utilizing a vehicle license plate system that automatically identifies owners of non-jewish vehicles, has built roads “for jews only” and other laws that restrict the rights of non-jews–laws that would never pass muster anywhere else in the world–laws that have been criticized when other countries have attempted to adopt and enforce them, South African apartheid laws being similar in nature. At the same time, they criticize the USA for wanting to enforce sensible immigration and border controls. Jews have been beneficial to and have uplifted humanity, but insistence on their self-imposed xenophobia for themselves, regarding everyone else as the enemy, being “out to get them” does not speak well for their moral and social sanity, and could be deemed to be a form of mental illness.
      Before I get labeled as a “jew hater”, I am nothing of the sort. I treat everyone I associate with respectfully without regard to race, culture, religion, etc.

      • Anarchyst, very well said. People do not like Jews not because they are Jews (however that is defined) but because of their blatant obnoxious hypocrisy.

        If someone somewhere was treating Jews the way Israel treats Palestinians the gnashing of teeth would be heard around the world.

    • There has never been any such thing as a moral country, because countries and government do not exist. You cannot touch a forest, a government, or a country. These are abstract concepts. But I know what you really mean. Unfortunately, you are incorrect there as well. This so-called country’s so-called government was founded by Puritan Yankees, and the Yankees continue to cause us these endless problems. Yes, I have just used some abstract words and concepts myself. Oh well.
      I have just finished reading a book entitled TheYankee Problem, and I highly recommend others to read it as well. The Yankees were even worse than I thought, and that is really saying something because I already knew that they were horrible people!
      It should be noted that not nearly everyone living in the Northeast are Yankees though. Most of those people are just insane liberal Democrats. Yankees are far more evil and destructive, and have been that way from day one.

      • T’would be nice if countries (in the political sense of the word) didn’t exist, Brian- but thanks to the collectivist mentality of a majority of people and or the desire to rule over/control others, by certain others, unfortunately, collections of people who are united under their willingness to adhere to and force upon others a system of rules enforced by coercion, are very much reality.

        And yes, I used to live in the Northeast- for 39 years- but I’ve always identified with the Confederacy- and now I live in the South, and am more redneck than most of my lifetime-southerner neighbors….. (And I hate it more than they do when I hear of another Yank moving down here!)

        • Hi Nunzio, my point about the non-existence of government was that the blame should be aimed at people who call themselves the government.
          It was the evil Puritans who placed themselves in command on this land mass now called the U.S. The Puritans were infamous for being pious hipocrites. They eventually became more atheistic, and became what we now know as Yankees. They took credit for fighting in the Revolutionary Eat even though they were absent from it aside for a few Generals. Indeed, they were profiting under the then present system, and didn’t really want it to end. They likewise did not fight in the Civil War, but took credit for the victory. Ditto for settling the West. It was the common people usually from the south who actually did the fighting along with new immigrants. The German immigrants, having previously taken part in Napoleon’s wars, were quite bloodthirsty. They were easily manipulated by the Yankees into seeing Southerners as a vile and traitorous people.
          The Yankees see themselves as being superior to other whites. They have set up the education system so that they are the only ones to receive an actual education. The rest of us who attended government schools were only taught how to be decent and obedient employees.

          • Brian, exactly, especially the last three sentences.

            The Yankee mindset is one of money and power uber alles.

            Damn them all!

          • True, Brian. But the thing is: You can’t limit it to any one group. What you describe is played out over and over again in every location, because it is human nature. The names of the groups may be different, but the modus-operandi is always the same, because most people believe in government. It is their god. The Puritans were no different than the Calf-licks, who are no different than the Snowflakes or the NeoCONS, or the socialists or the Shiites or the Zionists. Individual beliefa and agendas may be different among the various groups…but the common theme is that they all want to restrict what others do, and use coercion to promote their own favored agendas.

            Any contentions between various groups, factions and ideologies, isn’t about freedom vs. tyranny- but rather, just about who will be in control of the power structure. And naturally, whatever group is predominant in any given place, will be the one which directs the tyranny of that area.

            And the real blame goes to all of the people who participate in the fraud of government, by adhering to it’s edicts; funding it; working for it; taking up arms against their countrymen(and or sovereign nations) in it’s name, etc.

            It all comes down to the fact that most people do not ultimately believe in the sanctity of private property, or in the right of others to be left alone and to pursue their own happiness, and to live their own consciences before God Almighty.

              • ^^^Look at this! The man sums up the whole thing in 3 words- “Individualism vs. collectivism”. And that truly is it! That’s what it all comes down to.

                • Hiya Nunz!

                  That really is the crux of the matter. Not the pointless arguing between “liberals” and “conservatives” (and so on) but whether each of us is sovereign over ourselves or . . . not. If not, then one must explain how it is that some people acquired sovereignty over other people, contrary to the will of those people. Put another way, what entitles some people to use force and its threat to order other people around, deprive them of liberty and property?Clover

                  • Eric,
                    “That really is the crux of the matter. Not the pointless arguing between “liberals” and “conservatives” (and so on) but whether each of us is sovereign over ourselves or . . . not. If not, then one must explain how it is that some people acquired sovereignty over other people, contrary to the will of those people. Put another way, what entitles some people to use force and its threat to order other people around, deprive them of liberty and property?”
                    That right there Eric is perfect. I had a “spirited discussion” with my best friends wife (who is running for my local city council) and I said something similar to what you just wrote, want to know what happened? She got up and went to her room and I didn’t see her for the rest of the night.

                    • LOL! Yeah because water and oil don’t mix! And Control Freaks can’t abide people who insist on having Liberty and Personal Autonomy, either. Shoes, man I keep tellin ya it was the shoes, never shoulda let em have any!

                    • Adam, want to win any political argument? Argue for the NAP (as you have done with your friend’s wife). It is invincible. Yet the vast majority of humanity rejects it.

                      But be careful – the NAP will expose any hypocrisy. And there is a shit ton of hypocrisy in the world today. Hence most of the world’s problems.

                    • Hi Skunk,

                      I’ve been trying this one out: I don’t like people sticking their hands in my pockets or a gun in my ribs. Do you?

                    • Good morning, Adam!

                      I’ve experienced the same thing; it amounts to what Orwell described in 1984 as “crimestop” – except applied to thoughts which tend toward thinking about what constitutes real crime: The use of violence against peaceful people to deprive them of their liberty or take their property. People such as your friend’s wife don’t want to face it. The appalling thing is that most of these people are Good Germans, to borrow a term. They are – on a mundane level – nice, friendly and decent people who would never stick a gun in your ribs themselves, or filch your wallet… but have no qualms about having others do it on their behalf, via the ballot box.

                      Thanks for the kind words – and, I plan to go through the Bug’s brakes with my Apprentice, per your email!

                    • Eric, that is a good one. Always make it personal but never ad hominem. Funny how peoples’ perspectives change when you make them think in terms of themselves.

                • Nunz, thanks. I have been concentrating my thinking/understanding of things by reducing them to their essential core elements/principles. Fraud can only prosper through delusion. Delusion is caused by not being able to/refusing to see through the bullshit used to mask the Truth. Truth does not need to be masked. But lies do.

                  • Geez, look at this….you’re starting to sound like Confucius now, Skunks! 😀

                    I had been trying to reduce things to their basic elements too….but I seem to have slipped off the track. Maybe because us Eye-talians talk with our hands, and so when there’s a keyboard in front of us….watch out!

                    Or maybe somewhat because in arguing with the general population, we just become accustomed to having to school them in the foundational tenets of their own beliefs and ideologies, because they are often clueless. (That’s what I love about this site- it seems that except for the occasional Clover, all who participate here are quite knowledgeable- and we can all just speak as competent adults. In fact, if anything, I am the slack-jawed yokel here!).

                    It’s kinda like when I used to debate evolutionists. I learned to dispense with all of the extraneous BS, and cut right to the heart of the matter. Gimme a real scientist or anyone else who really understood what they were defending, and we’d be done in 5 minutes. They might not walk away suddenly being a creationist, but they would have a new respect for Creationism, and some things to think about, if they were honest.

                    On the other hand: Debate the same subject with a layman, and it could go on for weeks, because they just don’t grasp the implications of the big picture, because they really don’t understand that which they are defending….so you have to knit-pick over every little detail, because it’s only the random details that they know; or they argue in favor of things which their own community has long ago rejected, etc.

                    Ot maybe I’m just long-winded!

                    Bevin seems to be a real master of cutting to the core of the issue at hand…and in such a way that could make almost anyone contemplative. (But Bevin’s Chinese….ya expect that from them! 😉 )

                    • Nunz, as you know I am a not a creationist but I fully agree about evolutionists. Agree also with the rest of your post.

                    • There are good and bad arguments advanced by every side in any matter. Sometimes, somebody is wrong, but uses a superior argument, and sometimes somebody can be right…but use an inferior argument- or not even understand the subject which they are defending or why they are right.

                      One of the reasons I used to get involved in creation vs. evolution debates, was because I’d see so many creationists who just didn’t have a clue, in discussions with evolutionists, getting clobbered, because when they were faced with even the most rudimentary question, they were incapable of answering it, and would just say something like “I just believe by faith” 😮 .

                      Meanwhile, the evolutionist had never been exposed to any real challenges to evolution, nor any cohesive arguments for creation.

                      TYhe evolutionist at first glance, would appear to be more knowledgeable- but often only because he had been indoctrinated in the theory through years of pooblik skool- whereas creationists had no formal instruction in creationism, and were probably taught “Bible stories” in their 501c3 churches.

                      When the evolutionist is faced with someone who is versed in both evolution, as well as creation, and can expose contradictions and fallacies….the playing field is at least leveled.

                      Funny thing is: Just like in politics, it seems to be the lowest echelon people who are more emotional, and seem to want ot cling to certain beliefs (on all sides) just because it’s what they want; whereas when you get into the upper echelon- the pros and the heavily-invested, who have more to lose, they are often the ones who are more reasonable and who show greater respect, because they are not operating on the emotional level.

                    • Nunz, I defeat evolutionists by asking the simple question, What is your starting point? Followed by, And before that? Repeat as needed.

                    • Kinda the same here, Skunks- only I force them to “the beginning” by asking: Since matter is not eternal, and therefore at some point did not exist, where did it come from? Where did the energy come from to cause “The Big Bang” and to subsequently sustain the universe?- etc.

                      They will invariably resort to things being done by “nature”- which, even if such a thing could exist before matter and energy, is essentially nothing more than an “invisible being in the sky” which they ridicule us for believing in!

                      The above works with those who actually know what they are talking about- scientists and serious academics and studied laymen- ’cause they understand all of the ramifications, and the dabate is over in 5 minutes.

                      When you try it with the typical layman though- or worse yet, pooblik skool teachers- they just don’t “get it”, because they are just repeating what they’ve been indoctrinated with (just like politics and everything else in modern life)- so then you have to work on the little nitty-gritty things…like how live clams got buried on Mt. Everest when they were still alive….etc. etc.

                      But they [the laymen] never get it, ’cause they believe what they do by faith- and not by logic [again, what they accuse Christians of!]- and half of the time, they’re arguing points which have been rejected even by the evolutionary scientists, decades ago, but which are STILL in the skool textbooks- like Haeckel’s biogenetic recapitulation- which was discared, what? 75 years ago? But is STILL in the textbooks!!!

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