Veal Calves

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

You have probably read about the younger crowd being more interested in their cell phones than in cars. The statistic most often cited in support of this claim – which is true – is that about a fourth of those in the 18-30 bracket don’t even have a driver’s license.

Which is also true.

And it’s probably on purpose

Most states don’t allow a teenager to get a full driver’s license until he’s almost not a teenager. He’s allowed to drive – but only by himself. Or with an adult (someone over 18) in the car with him. Not with his friends (or his girlfriend).

Not at night.

Forget beach week/spring break – unless driven there by mom and dad. Might as well stay home.

And so, they do. Which is just the point. To sever the emotional bond that heretofore formed between teenagers and cars – and driving them – which lasted a lifetime. It’s much easier to get people out of cars when they haven’t got much interest in getting in them.

Until the’90s – when the Safety Cult metastasized into a state religion – American kids champed at the bit to get their first driver’s license – which they were eligible for the day they turned sixteen – because it was a fully adult driver’s license. Once they possessed it, they possessed the right to drive wherever, whenever – and with whomever.

Just like any other adult.

Which, in no small measure, they had just become.

You were still a teenager, certainly – but no longer a kid. You drove to school; kids rode the bus or with mom and dad. After school, you drove to your fast-food job or your friend’s house or the mall  . . . wherever you wanted to go, on your own and with no one’s supervision other than your own.

Parents still exhorted – be careful! – and some attempted to impose restrictions – let us know when you get there!  – but the force of them was tepid and fleeting; the sixteen year old had been empowered – and the parents knew it. But both benefitted. The no-longer-quite-a-kid had taken a giant step toward independent adulthood, which is the ultimate object of parenthood – because he was no longer completely dependent on mom and dad, as kids are.

He had assumed adult responsibilities – which inevitably hastened the transition to psychological adulthood alongside physical adulthood. He needed his parents less. Began to function more and more as an equal-in-process.

He had fledged.

This liberated parents as much as the bird about to take flight. If young son had hockey practice at 4 in the morning, mom and dad could sleep in, at last. They could ask young son – or daughter – to help with adult things now. Pick up something at the store on the way home. Take younger brother or sister to school, practice or their friend’s house  . . .  so mom and dad didn’t have to.

This was years before the teen graduated from high school.

As opposed to the year he graduated high school.

Anyone who experienced this transition to almost-adulthood while still a teenager will remember how freeing it felt – and was. How eager we were to get that freedom ticket – which forced adults to stop treating us like the kids we no longer were.

And this is why previous generations of Americans fell in love with cars – the means of driving. A license to drive without a car to drive is like a ticket to the prom without a date. It is important to get a date. And with a car, you could take your date to the prom – and somewhere else, afterward – without mom and dad along for the ride.

Which is also important, if you’re sixteen or seventeen.

There was every incentive to get a car – as much as that license – because one without the other rendered either of no useful value. Which is why fourteen-and-fifteen-year-olds began to think seriously about acquiring a car years before they were eligible for that first license. It was routine, pre-1990s, for pre-teens to spend summers cutting grass and winters shoveling snow in order to hoard up the necessary dinero for that first car.

Their car.

In which memories that would endure a lifetime would be made. Their memories. Of good and bad times. Things terrifying and wonderful. Adventures. Misadventures. The first real taste of being a grown up, scary and thrilling.

Road trips, in your car – with your friends – headed where you wanted to go and maybe you’d let the parents know.

Or not.

Today, the short bus license. Apron strings; perpetual childhood into adulthood. Sixteen and seventeen-year-olds treated as thirteen-and-fourteen-year-olds.

The kid can drive, but not the way adults can. Throughout most of the remainder of his high school years. 

He is heavily restricted – and constantly monitored. In mom or dad’s car, probably – which is bugged like the American embassy in Moscow. Narc-‘em-out “reports” and geofencing and software-managed limitations on speed and radio volume and seatbelt usage. The kid – and he is treated as such – isn’t allowed to have other kids in the car. Can’t drive wherever, whenever.

To prom or otherwise.

He is the target of “zero tolerance” laws which threaten him with extreme punishment for trivial offenses. He can be convicted of “drunk” driving for having had a sip – literally – of beer.

Being treated as a child when almost an adult is surely grating. It also tends to encourage childishness in the almost-adult. People tend to rise – or fall – in accordance with expectations.

The kids lose interest in cars because driving isn’t much fun. Many no longer even bother to get a license because it’s a hassle without much reward.

Can you blame them?

It would be like blaming the veal calf who shows little interest in walking.

The blame lies properly at the feet of the infantilizing priests of the Safety Cult, whose motives may be well-intended but which have caused horrendous damage to the national character.

A free country needs people capable of being free adults – and the sooner the better.

Not veal calves, kept in their pens to keep them saaaaaaaaaaaafe.

Got a question about cars – or anything else? Click on the “ask Eric” link and send ’em in!

If you like what you’ve found here please consider supporting EPautos. 

We depend on you to keep the wheels turning! 

Our donate button is here.

 If you prefer not to use PayPal, our mailing address is:

721 Hummingbird Lane SE
Copper Hill, VA 24079

PS: Get an EPautos magnet (pictured below) in return for a $20 or more one-time donation or a $10 or more monthly recurring donation. (Please be sure to tell us you want a sticker – and also, provide an address, so we know where to mail the thing!)

My latest eBook is also available for your favorite price – free! Click here.  



    • Nunzio,


      Save the coral, kill the people.

      “Hawaii is the first state in the US to ban the sale of sunscreen containing the coral-harming chemicals oxybenzone and octinoxate, ushering in a new era of reef safe sunscreen. The new law goes into effect January 1, 2021, but many visitors and residents are already trading in their non-reef safe sun protection.”

      • Damn! Tu, they must be gobbing that sunscreen on thicker than a 60 year-old whore’s make-up!

        Me? I likes my vitamin D- never use sunscreen (it likely causes the very cancer they say it prevents)- Out working in the sun all my life- from being a clam-digger in my teens…to working with the tractor now….my skin is still in fine shape at 57- not dry or wrinkled or leathery…. (Wish I could say the same about women these days- so many 20-somethings have rough, dry skin!)

        Get a little tan by being outside in the spring…ya never have a problem all summer.

        • I have to go get the cancer burned off my head now and then. It’s a good thing since i see it as a wake-up call. Had a thing or two cut out of my back but who hasn’t? aha

          I used to stay in garages in the winter to tune up cars and we didn’t have decent fuel but had plenty of alcohol in it. You were limited to a 10:1 compression ratio using 93 octane. I’ll never forget the day I picked up a gallon of Moroso octance booster with a big label that said ingredients were carcinogens. Shit Ronnie, now we’re cooking with the big dogs. I sorta loved the smell of it and mixed it pretty strong to increase my timing on the custom distributors I had built.

          I hadn’t thought what the fish thought about it in my Merc since it required fuel you really had a problem buying…except at the lake.

          Excuse my French but now I don’t know whether to shit or go blind with additives. It’s not the problem it once was though since I have no high performance anything.

          I’ll tell you something I did for decades though. Every time I let fuel in the boat sit for any length of time, say a month, I drained it and ran it through my pickups. They seemed to love it. I used to dope my diesels too but never found anything that seemed to be an advantage.

          I’m guessing old Sol has done the worst job on me of anything. I used to stay in the sun from dawn till dark and west Texas sun is some strong stuff. I’ve been blistered more times than I can count. Maybe that’s why they want to freeze those things off my head.

          I once went to the dermatologist with my dad. We both had things cut out and frozen off. I was way worse than he was so I looked like I had been nailed with 12 gauge 6 shot all over my head but he was pretty “frozen” too. We stopped and I bought a six pack we drank going home. I kept the a/c on high in cool weather. I’d have taken something stronger if I’d had it. That freezing bs hurts like hell. I only wear solid headwear now.

  1. ****” But feelings are fleeting. The expectation that the excitement and passion of an early relationship (to discuss one example) will remain the same over decades is absurd. “****

    Eric, people who have that expectation (And it’s not just limited to women) are essentially operating with the mentality of a child. And the sad thing is, that what has come to be the norm in modern Western culture- that of whoring around [men and women] from adolescence till late 20’s or mid 30’s when one finally marries, is making it even worse.

    Traditionally, the idea was that you got married when young (especially so for the woman), when one’s hormones were raging- and the bond of love created by such, between two people who are monogamous, would endure long after [cue B.B. King] the thrill is gone.

    By contrast, in the typical scenario today, the bond of love created by raging hormones has been broken so many times by having many ‘partners’, and people marry so late now, that by the time they’re ‘settling down’ with a spouse, the raging hormones have already quieted down- so establishing that strong bond of love is no longer really a thing; it’s [cue Carole King] too late, baby; and the bonds have been broken so many times before, that one just becomes numb to them.

    What we have today is essentially two independent adults coming together as separate entities with their own lives- and just making compromises to live as such together. They never truly [cue God] become one. They never grow together- because they are both already matured (relatively speaking) and they’re both pursuing their own paths out in the world; and they’re missing the window of opportunity to establish the bond of love.

    That, plus, as you mention, there is no longer any moral imperative to honor one’s vows and stay married.

    The thing is, too, I think more men who find themselves in a lackluster marriage, tend to endure, without considering the possibility of divorce, because we are wired to be the nurturers and protectors of women and family and home, just as women are wired to nurture children.

    Of the men I know who are still married to their original wives in their 40’s and 50’s, I don’t imagine that any of them are truly “happy” and “fulfilled”, as women count the term. They are married to androgynous cows; the thrill is long gone; they are basically playing a role- but they don’t even THINK of leaving, as that is their wife and their fambly, and they understand that it’s not just about themselves; and would consider it a severe crime to just abandon their responsibilities just to try and find something more akin to what they used to have. And the fact is, they would never find what they used to have, because, as described above, you only have a limited window of opportunity to find that; it’s just biology. Hence also, why statistically, the divorce rate is even higher for second or third marriages, especially later in life- somewhere around 90%!

    Hey, my 90 year-old uncle has been married for 68 years! (And you wouldn’t believe his 88 year-old wife- my aunt- Talk to her on the phone, and you’d think you were talking to a teenager!). Divorce is almost unknown in my family- and I’ve really come to see the stability that real life-long marriage creates- vs. what we so commonly see around us today. Divorce damages everyone- radiating out in concentric circles, from the spouses and [especially] the children, to the extended family…and ultimately, society as a whole, due to all of that damage done to so many individuals.

  2. It’s happening everywhere a Nanny State exists (NZ especially) –

    “…Whether this Government likes it or not, this is a nation of car owners. There are almost four million cars in this country.

    That is the highest number ever – and it goes up annually at a rate of about 5 per cent a year. That’s close to a car for every man, woman, and child. And given there are about a million kids, that then means there is more than one car per person of driving age.

    Now, why is that? Because of history, culture, and a deep seated passion for wheels.

    The current Government hate all this, and are doing their best to change it. Through agencies, like Auckland Transport and the NZ Transport Agency, they are making being a car owner harder and harder.

    But here’s the bit they don’t understand – and the bit that makes the dream delusional -they are not taking us with them. And reducing speed on open roads under the guise of some wacky tool is not going to change a thing.

    We smell an agenda a mile off. This is Julie Anne Genter and her cronies at large. From the bus lanes, the bike lanes, the lack of parking, the reduction of speed, the taxes on petrol, you will note to this point, all of it has been unsuccessful….”

    • Hi Alex,

      Yup. And this is why the focus has no shifted to “climate change” – the ultimate trump card (they hope) which will finally enable them to sovietize mobility by eliminating personal car ownership for all but the elite. This is why it is critical to challenge and expose the fraud of “climate change” and call out the tools peddling it.

    • Seriously, there’s only 4 million vehicles in your country. That would be a great, sparsely settled place to live…..if you didn’t have such a tyrannical govt. I used to groove on NZ 40 years ago, thought it would be a great place to live. It probably was 40 years ago. You have my condolences.

      I don’t know if the 270 million in this country helps keep govt at bay by confusion but I’d bet it’s just the opposite.

    • JAG has to be one of the ugliest people I’ve seen. Probably her looks are not too bad but I judge people on who they are, what the say and their agenda. She’s a female Stalin and speaks like Hitler. She must hate every human in the world. Talk about a God complex……..

  3. Got my license at age 16 with the support of my parents. I had learned to drive since 14. First car was a 1989 Mazda Rx-7 non turbo though. I didn’t know anything about rotary engines and blew the motor pretty quickly. Then i drove around a 1985 bmw 318i manual. No ac black leather interior it. Loved doing donuts in the parking lot. I still dont like throttle by wire since i grew up on and owned real manual cars.

    • Hi Mooeing,

      Raise ya!

      I made copies of the keys to my parents’ cars when I was 14… and figured out that by disconnecting the speedo cable I could drive without any mileage showing on the odo.

      Ho! Ho! Ho!

      • Yep, and then you went “hoe, hoe, hoeing”, yourself, just like the rest of us, lol! They didn’t call it “trolling” for nothing! Guys AND girls referred to each other as “fish”, so what can we say? Women STILL refer to a great man as a “catch”, do they not? Of course they do.

            • T, I know I’ve already said I don’t eat fast food but once, back in the 60’s, I went with some others to a Long John Silver’s. They ate, I watched and was amazed they even sold the crap that accumulates on the bottom of the friers although I can’t remember what it was called.

              A decade or so ago I went fishing with 3 other guys and after the fishing, they all agree to Long John Silver’s. It was my first(and last)time to eat there. There was a bottle of something on the table they were all putting on their “fish”.

              I had my doubts but they said “No, it’s good, try it”. So I did. They were all watching me after taking my first bite. I knew that taste from somewhere and then it hit me and I said “Ah, Massengil’s” and everyone that heard me was practically rolling on the floor.

  4. Just watching that nauseating video makes me thank God, as much as I hate getting older, that I got my license in the early 80’s when this country had a semblance of normalcy. Couldn’t wait to get my first car, a 68′ Camaro, and ditch the kiddie bus to H.S. and go my own way. Unfortunately one drunken night in my senior year I wrecked it and had to go back to taking the bus for the remainder of the year, that sucked lol. I really feel sad for the youth of today and how they’ve been lobotmized and emasculated.

  5. I like this article – shows a lot of where we’ve gone sideways as a culture. The girlfriend and I were having a discussion about a similar topic recently, when noticing that the local teenagers were literally the most boring people on the planet.

    Back in April, we went out to dinner, and not even realizing that it was prom night for the current crop of teenagers, we decided to sit back and watch the show and maybe critique the mating skills of the younger generations. We were more than shocked, and seeing couples driven around by their parents on prom night really drove the point home that the last vestiges of America are fading away. Of the few we saw arrive in their own little nondescript silver or white blobs, 90% sat the entire time on their phones in their own little disconnected world. American Graffiti may not be dead, but is certainly on life support.

    After dinner, we took a cruise around town in the same Model A that we took to the prom, and let the sweet smell of 110 octane waft through the zoomies and let the ghosts of a memorable teenager-hood echo through the wasteland of gentrification once known as our hometown. While impromptu street races and shining the chrome up in the Jack in the Box parking lot may be distant memories, we aren’t about to let go of what we grew up on.

    On this same night, we were given the ultimate sign that we have begun crossing into codger-dom when a police officer in his full tactical glory briefly stopped what he was doing to whistle and rapidly spin his index fingers in the universal signal to light up the cheaters.

  6. Great essay today. Yes there is a steady drumbeat for the infantalization of young Americans. Can’t buy alcohol until now, mostly 21 YO, or cigarettes and even e-cigs, or do or purchase anything Big Brother/Sister says they can’t. Now of course young people have immature brains and need experience. But coddling them only does one thing: keep them in the dark and make them “outlaws” when they go ahead and drive, drink, etc. Thus they all learn the very Hard Way. Of course poorer underclass kids do what they have to do anyway. Thus they collect long records of minor violations/tickets for “underage” stuff. Career killers often.

    Yet they all can procreate children of their own at puberty, around 13-15. They can get jobs/work. They can enlist in the military or attend college. The military lets them fire tanks and automatic weapons, do all kinds of dangerous stuff. Kill people at Uncle’s behest, and get medals for that.

    It looks as if we will ‘need’ another World War and mass draft to change this crazy mindset of perpetual childhood. In real big wars, they draft 17 YOs or younger (in places, or they lie about age) and send them off to kill or die. And when back home, they can drive, drink, smoke and raise hell. Who can stop a hardened vet? Will it take another generational culling before the young are treated as they should be treated? The pioneers and soldiers of the past were largely teenagers. They had to take risks and become adults quickly. Delaying that only creates these weak helpless whiners and “victims” we see now.

    • The whole thing in this country of letting minor teenage infractions govern someone’s entire life needs to be put to an end, like now.

      There’s a home for everyone in the trades, regardless of whether or not they got an “underage consumption” or some equally stupid black mark on their “permanent record”. I just hired a friend from school (who was the squeaky clean “All American Boy”), after his company downsized him and his “loving” wife bailed on him. The guy has close to $40,000 in student loans he’s still paying on, literally nothing to his name other than a diploma from an accredited indoctrination center, and can’t find a job that has any use for his degree. Poor dude has no real skills yet, so I can’t use him as much more than a helper/gofer but he told me he has never made more than $15 an hour before. I pay the guy that cleans the yard more than that, and I was (in the words of several teachers) a “hood”!

      Dirty hands make clean money – let the colleges and Uncle go to hell and pick up a hammer.

      • “Dirty hands make clean money – let the colleges and Uncle go to hell and pick up a hammer.”

        There’s another saying: “It’s not always what you know, but who you know”. If only I knew then what I know now, I would’ve never even considered college until I got a full time job to pay for it.

    • No one needs another war thats for bankers. The video is frightening. It aint going to be teen mode for long. It will be keep your insurance mode. In our cars growing up we had rooftop car surfing / egging wars / went hosing bicyclists with a pressurized stolen water fire extinguisher. Cruising the burger king because everyone gathered there. Different days.

  7. I think it is also a question of money. The price of the latest iPhone, data plan and subscription services is more than we paid for the clunkers we first drove around and beat to death. If they did a cost/benefit on a car vs. iPhone they can easily see they can’t afford both. Plus, they get more status from their phone.

    • I swear, I wish those GD smartphones were never invented. What’s interesting (scary) is that most people are willing to pony-up $800+ every 6 months (via perpetual debt) for a new one; but claim they can’t afford a nice used $8,000 car that they can use to get to and from a decent paying job; which in turn, would allow them to afford both. But of course, that would require too much “effort”.

  8. I grew up in Virginia and back then we could get a full driver’s license when we were 15-years-old. Back then they flunked the stupid kids and the schools were a 7 – 5 system, 7 years in elementary school and 5 years in high school. Not often, but occasionally there was a guy driving to grade school because he was a dumb-ass and not able to quit school until he was 16, but he could drive at 15. We also liked hot cars and learned how to handle horsepower. It’s a changed world, and in many ways not for the better.

    • Back as recently as the 70’s and 80’s, some places, like Florida (and I believe TN and MS too) you could get a license at 14 !

      • When I was a teen growing up in FL, you didn’t even need a learner’s permit to drive with your parents (or older siblings or ‘close’ relative, like an uncle, IF they were at least 18 and licensed) riding shotgun. But you could get the permit at 14, which graduated from being restricted to family-only until you were 14½ and had passed the Driver’s Ed course, to with ANY licensed driver (still riding shotgun), but during daylight only, to being able to go with any licensed driver if you pass the driving course (which was what the football coach usually ‘taught’ to maintain his teacher’s certificate) and were 15, OR, you could drive by YOURSELF no more than 50 miles from home, to school, church, or work, as long as you weren’t violating curfew. But once you were 16, and passed the DMV test (and they gave you a week prior to one’s “Sweet Sixteen” to take the tests, but your license wasn’t effective until your 16th birthday), you were good to go anywhere and at anytime your parents allowed (which they still could legally revoke for whatever reason). Ergo, at sixteen, you could function behind the wheel as an ADULT.

      • Nunz, Texas. A guy I work with grew up in a trucking family too and he got a hardship commercial license at 14. OTOH, I just drove a truck and the law looked the other way. We were from the same county.

        • 14- that’s awesome! Treat someone of that age like they’re an adult, and most will assume the part. Today they do just the opposite; they expect guys even in their early 20’s to be irresponsible incompetent worthless boobs- overgrown children- and as we can see, they assume that role in spades now.

          ’bout the closest I’ve seen to those days, is around here, there’s a girl who when she was 15, could drive her fambly’s dually with the big stock trailer, and back it into anywhere just fine- ‘d put me to shame! The last remnants of a dying way of life.

  9. I didn’t get my permission to travel till I was 20- 1982. Even at that time, owning a car in the NYC metro area where I then lived, was expensive, and a hassle. I sold my first car after only a few months, because parking was such a hassle that I’d often leave the car sitting there, and walk or take the subway instead! Not to mention, even then, in a blue state, mandatory liability insurance for a young first-time driver (The only car/driver in the household!) was already up there- $750 a year, in 1982 dollars, when the typical wage for a person of that age was $3.25/hr.- for a car that costedid $1000.

    So I can only imagine how young’uns are overwhelmed TODAY! (Although increasingly, it is much more common for parents to put the sprogs on their insurance, or pay for it…and the car…and gas…)

    • Nunz, There was a good thing about growing up in Texas, people were fiercely independent then. I’d been driving nearly 3 years when I got my license and had spent nearly every minute practicing what the staff of Car and Driver and Sports Car Graphic spoke of doing.

      When we’d go on a family trip I’d drive cause my dad didn’t really want to although he was a good driver and my mother was tepid at best. Most of those trips involved near triple digit speeds, right down my alley. My mother would regularly ask my dad, How fast is he going? He’d reply, I don’t know, he’s doing fine. My sister said nothing since the faster we got there the better and she rode with guys who only knew “hold it on the floor till you find a good spot to….well……rest.

      BTW, I really dig “costedid”. I’d like to use that if you don’t mind.

      • Ah, ya must have some Eye-talian in ya, Eight….we’re born drivers- even when we’re half blind!

        Sure, feel free to use ‘costedid”! (You might like * ‘upposed* too- for *supposed* :D. And please know, that I’m not plagiarizing you when I use ‘bidness’- I’m just using it MORE lately, thanks to you! (But I did steal “More nervous than a cat in a room full of rocking chairs” from ya! And a few others which don’t immediately come to mind).

        You really need to start writing some books, my friend! You always have great stories/anecdotes/observations; and a way with words! Maybe you could start weith Growing Up Texas!

      • PS. Eight, how often does that Natchez place have the ammo sale? Missed the last one ya told me about…but I’ll be sure and hit the next ‘un!

        • Nunz, that’s Natchez Shooter’s Supply so just put it all together, add .com and you’ll be on their site. Once there, just enter you email and they’ll be happy to add you to their ad list. They have a sale on right now you might want to look at. Since you’re out of state, you won’t have to pay tax. Cheaper Than Dirt is another good source but they’re in Texas so I get cheated to the tune of .08125% added for “the state”.

          It appears everything they’re showing now is .223 and 5.56 ammo and it is cheap. I recommend American Eagle and Australian Outback which is known for its ability to perform well regardless of temperature. I like AE’s 62 gr. Green Tip and the Outback 55. gr. soft point, both very accurate. The Federal American Eagle Tactical is going for dirt cheap at $.29/rd for 55 gr. FMJBT. I can’t load it any cheaper. That’s fine though. Ammo performs better now than ever. This and the Australian Outback 55 gr. are both right at 3250 fps, pretty hot stuff and very clean shooting.

            • T, I have to look closely at Kel-tech. I am NOT a Beretta fan. I thought they began making heavy, clunky stuff with that European grip angle with the Mod. 92. Nothing about that gun I liked except if you needed to drive a nail and it was handy. Just not a fan of any of the guns(few left)with that weird Euro grip angle. Colt and Browning had it right and just about everything now uses it. Back when I could hear well I think I could have shot a target by sound with a Python.

            • From what I’ve seen, Kel-tec makes a lot of junk. Seeing their handguns, I’d be leery of anything else from ’em. [And note, I’m not a gun snob- I poo-poo Glocks, and like a lot of Taurus stuff just fine]

    • I lived in the same area in the 70s and waited until I was 22. I could’ve bought a beater for $100 but insurance was $1000. The reason why insurance was so high was because the area was full of “refugee” cane-cutters, who would ht and run instead of paying for insurance, which left us White folk paying for both ourselves and them.

      Then there was the parking problem. If you arrived home after 4 PM, you had to park a mile away and walk home. You only used the car for long trips.

  10. Well, when I was a kid I totaled a Dodge Omni. We were out joyriding and one of the guys recommended we go out to this road way out in the wilderness (actually just a few miles from home). I lost control and flipped it on the passenger side (and they say SUVs are top heavy…). Biggest fear was “what will dad do?” The next morning mom and dad sat me down and asked me what happened. I told the story, scared, even crying at one point. Then dad hands me the keys to the Horizon (dad really liked those shitboxes) and told me to go down to the Sunoco station, where he knew the Omni was towed. I’ll never forget seeing the side all scraped and dented, the glass broken out of the hatch and rear wheel all bent to hell. That no one was injured was pretty unbelievable, although everyone was in a seat belt.

    I learned I lot about cars that weekend.

    But I also learned a little about parenting too. I fully expected to be grounded for years, or at least banned from driving. But the next day, there I was back in the driver’s seat. Years later mom said she and dad had a sleepless night debating on what to do, and she basically put her foot down that the accident was punishment enough.

    Stupid kid move? Absolutely. Preventable? Absolutely! Right of passage? Probably not, but we all have near miss stories. If totaling a $500 car is the worst thing I did in my youth I’d say that’s getting off cheap.

  11. I’ll NEVER forget the first time I was able to get in my car and take my girlfriend to the mall and then home. We both couldn’t belive it; we were no longer dependent and had a freedom that we didnt fully realize we had. Something as mundane as driving her home became an amazing adventure, just me and the gorgeous olive-skinned brunette in my car, driving anywhere. I lived in a beach side town in FL; once I got my license I’d pack my surfboard in the car and wed run to the beach after school. It was idyllic . No digital nannies, nontraffic cameras, gas was $1.20 a gallon, and the world seemed like an adventure. You can NEVER get that feeling from a cell phone. I’m 34 and lament how quickly things have fallen apart. Pre-9/11 America was a great place.

    • I remember my first successful parked car “experience”. Parked by a river. We got caught by the cops. They watched us for I don’t know how long, but eventually approached us. They checked our ID’s to make sure we were “old enough” to be doing that stuff, and sent us on our way. That was it. Today a guy would probably be charged with rape and god knows what else.

      • Ha. My HS fling and I did it in their driveway in the back of my 92′ explorer in the sweltering Houston summer. That thing had some space in it. Can’t do that with uber.

      • When my #1 son moved out on his own, I gave him my well-used ’91 Chrysler Fifth Avenue, which was still ‘cherry’ inside and ran decently,, and other mechanical issues aside, like any Mopar, it blew some COLD A/C! He and his friends and dates dubbed the old-man battleship the ‘Anti-Chrysler” and also the “Shaggin’ Wagon”, due to it’s very ample interior, and, all that plush velour upholstery. Not necessarily with my oldest son, as if he’d sired any kids in the back seat of that old heap, after some 12-13 years I’d probably know by now, but I recall getting a call from a deputy sheriff (the car was still on my insurance and still in my name) asking about my son and his date, whom put the suspension of that vehicle to test!

  12. Lots of irony in Eric’s final sentences there……….

    “A free country needs people capable of being free adults – and the sooner the better.
    Not veal calves, kept in their pens to keep them saaaaaaaaaaaafe.”

    As we all know, those veal calves are Very Far from “safe.” They are Doomed.

    • Veal calves are raised specifically to be EATEN at a young age. The analogy is apt, considering the present state of both our military-industrial and prison-industrial complexes, let alone the racket that is our higher education system.

  13. “A license to drive without a car to drive is like a ticket to the prom without a date. It is important to get a date.”

    I beg to differ. I went to both of my HS proms without a date and still had fun. One does not need to have a partner in order to enjoy life. Personally, I actually find life to be more enjoyable without one because I have more freedom. But of course, everyone is different.

    • I agree, BG- for some of us, being alone is pure bliss- and if we had not realized that, and had gone with the flow, we would have been miserable and disfunctional; and likely made someone else that way too.

      But why would you go to the prom??!!!

      Of course, I’m an Hs. D. [High-school drop-out] so the prom wasn’t an option; and had it been, I would have avoided it like the plague- like I did everything else school-related or social-activity related…. I dated this girl in my late teens (Yeah, I hadn’t figured out the loner thing included women, too!) who wanted me to accompany her to her prom…. I reluctantly agreed to it- but it was a huge relief when at the last minute, she adopted my viewpoint, and we ended up doing something else instead- just the two of us [No, not THAT!]

      • Why NOT That? “That” is just about the best thing two people of opposite sex can do. Never a thought of politics or any other unpleasant subject. Conway said it pretty well in “Slow Hand”. Eric Clapton had his fifth album by that name and even the Pointer Sisters did a version of Conway’s song.

        Bill Withers gave us “Just The Two of Us” and before that Graham Parsons and Emily Lou gave us a Louden Bros. song “Love Hurts”. Not to mention Dianna’s Baby Love. The Platters gave us Only You. Temptations memorialized My Girl. I could do this all day.

        • That’s a game one should play for keeps- otherwise, all ya end up with is throwbacks.(Or a society full of ‘independent’ women; single mommies; and men who can’t find suitable wives. Weak or non-existant famblies….enabling the state to become supreme… sound familiar yet?)

  14. Cars, bikes and girls, they all went together, just a part of growing up for me. All gone now. I still have cars, and some of the bikes I had as a teen, but the rest is ancient history. Girls used to be fun, we all were. Everything now is just ruined by constant fear-mongering and nannying by anyone and everyone. Look a woman cross-eyed now and you might get accused of “sexual harassment”.

    • What I hate is when you happen to look up and one of those plus size ‘ladies’ catch your look and act like you are looking at them ‘that way’. Don’t know whether to vomit or laugh.

      • My reply in those situations is “My apologies for staring, it’s just that you’re taking up the majority of my field of vision”.

        • Do you actually say that out loud just because someone looks at you or smiles? I think that’s mean. Live and let live.

          I believe in good manners. I’ve had men I find seriously unattractive try to catch my eye, I stay polite and classy even if the thought of kissing them makes me want to throw up. Now, if the woman (or man) comes up to you and starts to bother you, then of course you can make your point. But OTOH, why not flirt? It’s harmless fun.

          I flirt with strangers all the time, it’s just being friendly and brightening your day and theirs. So if some pot-bellied old guy banters with me – I’ll banter back, doesn’t mean I’m going to let it go any further. Just acknowledging that we are both God’s creatures and we’re not dead.

          After all, God loves all of us (at least, that’s what my Bible says). It doesn’t say God only loves the pretty people or the rich people, or that we’re only supposed to be nice to the people we find “do-able”.

          Sorry for being on a soapbox, but this is one of the things I hate about society today – the lack of manners. Leftists feel fine confronting someone for wearing a MAGA cap, and people on the right flame at leftists, and everyone is just so angry and mean. Really, people, it’s not so hard to just live and let live.

          Maybe it does all go back to driving cars… if millenials were free and happy doing fun things they would be less likely to waste their time being “woke”.

          • Suppose the lard-ass were a Canaanite?

            From the context of GTC’s comment, it is obvious that he is speaking of someone who thinks too highly or too unrealistically of themselves; someone who fancies themself as desirable, though they are a canklesaurus.

            Maybe the onus should be on them, not to make silly assumptions, and to take responsibility for the the choices they’ve made which led to their inflation.

            A little humility- so as not to think that everyone who looks at you desires you, would go a long way; but we live in a day when humility is no longer valued, and instead people are taught “self-esteem”- and that is the LAST things humans need- to feel better about themselves and or their bodies, than they actually are. Suich virtually demands that reality be illustrated by others at some point; whereas if we practice humility and think of ourselves realistically or not as highly as we should, others will naturally extol our virtues/assets.

            Even a few Canaanites and Moabites and Samaritans won God’;s favor, even being of a race He hated- because they had the humility to accept reality instead of defending an inferior position.

              • Hey, GTC,

                Oh, believe me, I know exactly what ya mean! Ya can’t look at anyone today- whether it’sd to see the freak show, or to admire something nice about them, or whatever, without them putting their own interpretation on your gaze!

                Or even worse: When you see some woman who thinks that she’s ‘all that’- or may be attractive to other men, but not you… I go out of my way to avoid even looking their way, ’cause they’re always the ones who imagine that you “want them”- when in your mind you’re saying “What do people find so attractive about that?!”

          • Perhaps you did not get the gist of Ken’s comment. It appeared to me that he was referring to someone who accuses you “leering”, or some such nonsense, with no provocation, and worse, no justification. So, yes, I say that out loud, and more to someone who cuts me a snarky, pretentious attitude without just cause. I do not tolerate snobbery or slum-prudery hurled at me by anyone. Neither do I play the “politeness” game with someone bereft of manners or humility. When someone is antagonizing me for a dose of reality, I oblige. No one is harmed, and it’s effective.

          • BTW, Ssohara, did you have something to contribute to Eric’s article above, or are you just here to troll on other people’s comments to feel better about yourself? Your input smacks heavily of a typical “triggered” You-Tube post. Why not focus on the nature of the above article instead, or are you just not interested enough in that alone?

          • Soharra, mean are visual. It’s a fact they like to look at form. Think about it, paintings, sculpture, buildings, vehicles, animals. No telling how many men you have….and haven’t seen admiring your body.

            There’s a movie called Focus about gambling. There’s a scene at a pro-football game where a good-looking woman gets up and heads up the bleachers. Immediately there ensures a bet between a few people, one being a wise woman about how many men are going to turn and watch her walk away. Instead of feeling denigrated, I’d personally feel feel like the woman who knew the other woman was being ogled, I’d be proud to know woman were watching me because of my body.

            I don’t really know what you think men are doing when they look at you. I’d be embarrassed to have a good looking woman catch me looking at her but it certainly shouldn’t be something she should take offense at.

            Should that bright shiny Peterbilt be offended? Or that field of beautiful flowers? Should a beautiful sunrise be offended when I can’t quit looking? I hope not since I can’t help myself.

            This is the reason so many sports are dominated by men. Women don’t have the vision of men. It’s not necessarily a sexual thing but something that has to do with environment. Why do you suppose the plain Indians had such great long range vision? Thinking? Got it yet? They had never lived inside walls. Their eyes were accustomed to looking far off….so they were better at it than people who stay inside, especially those who look into mirrors a lot.

            Men and women are different not only because of hormones but of how they live….their environment. Are you ever fascinated by the guys 100 floors above the earth walking beams? I am, I couldn’t do it. If you’ll notice you won’t see women doing it…..ever. There are differences between men and women that have all sorts of sources. This bs in the feminist marches that say “Anything a man can do, I can do better” are full of shit. They haven’t learned anything in life.

            I might be a pretty good dad, a damned good dad, but I could never have that same relationship with a baby a woman can have. None of us are equal. I’ve seen videos of those feminist marches where women said they could do anything as well as a man. Really? Anything? They have some of the poor pussified boys saying the same thing. Is there anything a man can do that a woman can’t do? They get that far away look in their eyes and say “No, not that I know of”. No shit? You really can’t think of a single thing a man can do better than a woman? Is that the reason men and women compete together in sports? Oh, well, that’s not a fair question….if you’re a woman.

            One morning at shift change at this hellhole I worked at, the shift changer was a woman who had that “women are better at everything than men”. She comes in….waddling and accosts me and a male coworker. She has a coffee cup in her hand and shows it to us. it’s some ugly fat cartoon broad with the admonition under that said “Anything a man can do, I can do better”. She grinned really big and looked at both of us. My male coworker looked her in the eye(I wish I had thought this quickly) and said “Get a Hard on”. She had the strangest smile and didn’t say a lot but kept smiling. She’d bad-mouth men one minute and then tell of the sexual escapade she had all week-end long with two DPS officers she picked up at the Rattlesnake Round-up.

            She’d tell jokes that made men and women alike turn and walk away but then get pissed over some non-event that didn’t even involve sex or sexual qualities.

            So when you think men are looking at you, they probably are. If you think they’re being noxious in some way, they rarely are. Men like what they see. Women like what they “feel”. I was just born into this world. I didn’t do anything to shape it much. I just did what came naturally. Did you ever want to drive a race car to the nth of it’s and your abilities? Did you want to spend your days(and nights)hauling freight in a big rig? Do you look forward to hunting and fishing? I do….all those things. I can’t say why. It’s just the way I am. Would I be offended if women ogled me? I have been embarrassed by it but never offended. Men….Women….they ain’t the same. BTW, I did adjust a bra earlier today…..because I was asked to do so. Should I have said “No, that’s gross”? That wouldn’t be very accommodating now…..would it? And it might be very hurtful to a woman’s feelings. Grow up.

            • Hey 8,

              Agree with ya here. Women and men are different! And thank fuck for it!!! I personally enjoy it when I get looked up and down by a man. I’m no super model, but I have some classic beauty. I would have no way to be aware of this, without the menfolk to confirm this. Women have a short window of attractiveness, unlike men, so it is very important for women to KNOW of their beauty and use it to make more people in enough time. (The whole point to this thing)

              Seems like the only ones that stand on a soapbox in opposition of these biological rules, are the straight dogs of our species. Undesirable women. (There are plenty of undesirable men, too) Ugly is biological. We don’t like it because it is an indication of bad genetics, or at least ones that aren’t compatible with our own.

              I’m tall and kind of fat, undesirable to some. But VERY desirable to some. I somehow attract tall, skinny white boys. Or maybe this is what I like so those are the only ones I notice looking. Either way, I have a better chance of making a strong fit child with a strong fit man. A desirable child. my body is really good at storing energy, so I’d need genetic material that is better at burning energy to make a better balanced copy of myself. Again, biology. Not my choice that I am attracted to thin guys.

              I’m glad we’re different. I’m glad my “feelings” dictate what I do. I am woman, hear me delicately whisper softly to attract a man! (That’s how that tune should go)

              • ****”undesirable to some. But VERY desirable to some.”******

                I wish that more people would realize that; instead of trying to conform to some artificial standard of attractiveness propagated by the media/advertising/the porn industry[shudder].

                Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. One man’s hag is another man’s goddess.

                I tend to like short girls with a little fat (NOT obese)- face and hair are of utmost import to me, physically speaking. Yet, I’ve encountered countless girls who don’t fit my normal “criteria” whom I’ve found attractive.

                Wouldn’t give ya two-cents for the “super-model” types- I find them repulsive.

                I never realized until this conversation, that it no longer seems to be common knowledge that men and women are wired differently; that men are aroused by looks; women respond to the way a man makes them feel- i.e. his confidence and perceived power- which is why you’ll often see beautiful women in the company of ugly men- because those men may have the presence/personality, just not the looks; or why so many women today who are devoid of morals, prefer thugs- since as the average male becomes more and more wussified, the thugs may be the only ones available who still exhibit the characteristics of strength and individualism (But of course, with most thugs, those characteristics are merely appearances and not the real things).

                Then, there are the women- and it seems that there are a significant amount of them, who throw everything else out the window for money- thinking that mere physical things can somehow trump real love.

                • The welfare state happened. The desire for unreliable, dangerous, exciting men was tempered by the consequences. Now the social consequences have been erased and the economic consequences are covered by the government taking from the low risk men.

                  Women’s tastes have shifted because the risk-benefit window was artificially shifted.

                  • Translation:
                    They don’t need a guy who will be a reliable provider and not in jail, or not off with 100 other ho’s, because the state will provide the things a husband used to.

                    They don’t need a man of good character who will be a good role model for their kids and teach them his trade, ’cause Uncle will just take their neighbor’s money and provide free schooling and training for a third of their life.

                    They don’t need a guy who be nice to them, ’cause there are protective orders and restraining orders….

                    This is why TPTB were happy to give women the vote- because they knew it would be the ticket to socialism.

              • Anon, I think you should sign in again since there are more than one Anonymous right now. But I groke what you’re saying.

                I have been attracted to all sorts of body types in my life. It’s not so much looks for me that determine a woman I like. It’s much more personality. I know that’s not PC these days….and maybe never has been but the women I desire most of all are ones I know…..and like. I’ve had my share of one night stands and they were few. Picking up a woman and asking a woman you know on a date are two different things.

                While you like tall, skinny guys, I don’t have just one body type I’m attracted to. I guess I’m old fashioned but I like to “like” a woman to be comfortable with.

                I’m almost the epitome of “white” yet I have dated black women. I could have been really head over heels for one woman of “color” but I was young and she had a baby with no father mentioned. i really liked her, She was a model, a real beauty and very smart but I was young enough to be leery of becoming another “baby daddy”. Her mother was a really nice person too and I enjoyed being with both of them….and the child. I just wasn’t mature enough to come to terms with the situation. I had never considered to be in a relationship with a woman other than white, like myself. She changed my thoughts about that. I wished I had been mature enough to find out more about her. She was a really great person. It’s not difficult for anyone to believe I was more than attracted to her. But that is youth(I was 21, a mere child). Her pictures didn’t do her justice. She was so much more than just a body to look at.

                Well, it was a part of my growing up. Maybe it had to do with my just having lost the “love of my life”, a woman I had come to be a man with and she a woman with me. I certainly am no expert on men/women relationships, just know I can’t pin any type or color as “My Type”.
                The only thing I know for sure is the “A woman can do anything a man can do” is a crock, just as switching that around.

                We are what we are. We can’t be pegged as this or that and that goes for BOTH sexes. Sorry if I don’t believe there are several sexes. I could be wrong, it simply doesn’t seem that way… me>

                • Hey 8,

                  I wouldn’t say I have a “type” really, just happens that the guys I’ve liked tend to be the tall skinny geeks. I’m mainly attracted to smarts. (Not easy to find, turns out) I also like men that I know. Haven’t been single very long and my last guy was long-term. Matter of fact, that’s actually not as over as it should be by now. (Dating is hard, and familiarity trumps single motherhood and AIDS) He’s also a wonderful man who will always love me. The kicker is that he’s twice my age, and has rapidly declined health wise. I didn’t want to break up, but he wanted me to have a better life. One he knows he can’t provide.

                  Getting back to it has been shitty. Guys my age are mostly retards. Infantalized, as our site creator puts it. Most come from broken homes and never had a male to teach them how to be that. The good ones are married, gay, or simply not interested. Or, they belong to a different generation and have raised their families.

                  The rules have changed. Men have an endless menu of chicks to choose from. They show interest at first then pull back. Girl is left reeling. Then a couple weeks or months later suddenly reappear. It all feels like a game, and I don’t know these rules.

                  I think I’ll remove myself from consideration. Nearing the end of my nubile window, I think I’ll dig on my hobbies instead. I’m out of style and old fashioned anyway.

                  Men have all the advantage in this new way of dating. Women have every disadvantage. The risk for women is way higher. So I’ll fight to self sustain like I’ve never wanted, nor was designed to do. Forced out of my natural feminine state, doing it all on my own. (This is how I got into cars, forced economically to fix things myself [not mad about that part]) Men will go their own way, like they can and do, now. It’s kind of lonely for them, but it’s WAY worse for us. Let me count the ways…

                  • Oh, please! Women have it FAR easier than guys do! All you have to do is sit back and watch the offers (i.e. male interest) roll on in. You don’t have to put yourself out there to get anyone; you have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER it’s like to get shot down; if you did, you all wouldn’t engage in nuclear rejections like it was a sport.

                    And when it comes to sex, you can get some WHENEVER you want it. All you have to do is show up and show the slightest bit of interest. Guys, OTOH, have to work hard to get any. We have to have our act together. We have to look decent. We have to know how to talk; God forbid we can’t make you laugh! Our game has to be tight. I could go on, but you get my point.

                    You know WHY the old sexual double standard existed? You know why sexually active guys were thought of as studs, while the same kind of woman was thought of as a slut? It’s because guys have to WORK HARDER to get laid. For a woman to screw 100 men is nothing special; all she has to do is show up. For a man to screw 100 women-well, that takes a LOT of work! So don’t even tell me women have to hard. Give me a freakin’ break!

                    • I personally know exactly what it is like to get shot down. Happened recently, and it rocked my world, and I’m still not over the sting. Getting laid is easy for women, but this is not my end game. I’m not in it for “dick”, I’m doing this for companionship. Someone I can build a life with. Trust me when I say, women (genuinely decent women) have it pretty rough these days. Not talking about these game playing, trying to get free dinner and drinks hos.

                      Guys fuck chicks then move on to the next batch. Plenty of women do this too now, but it isn’t smart, nor can it sustain.

                      As for having your shit together, that is a MUST for a man. You’re supposed to be the provider and the one to protect. This is nature. Sorry if you don’t like it.

                      I don’t like heavy lifting. Because my body can’t do it as well as yours. But I have to.

                    • If you’re talking about finding REAL COMPANIONSHIP, then I agree; it’s hard to find. No, it’s damn near IMPOSSIBLE.

                      When it comes to love, if I didn’t have bad luck, I wouldn’t have any luck at all! In fact, I’ve given up hope for ever finding it.

                      Besides, at 57, my sex drive is pretty much gone. Thank goodness! As Socrates said when his sex drive died, I feel as if I’ve been released from the clutches of a terrible beast. Anyway, I find a good bowel movement more satisfying than an orgasm these days…

                    • I’d give you a break if I could….seriously. I understand people, not just women or men, but people, having a hard time finding not just companionship but love, compassion and the ultimate, being there for another person no matter what.

                      The pushers of what we call “society” now are doing everything possible to make life hard on those as Eddie Murphy once said “wookin pa nub”. It was a funny skit then but it’s no joke now.

                      Everyone is looking for love and it’s never been easy to find when you aren’t young and gullible.

                      My best friend lost his wife a few years back. He’d give everything he has for love but he’s not only old, he’s infirm, in bad health. He can still make a living….of a sort and one that most women near his age would accept except he’s not really even looking for love. Yes, he’d like to find love but companionship and honesty would work well for him.

                      I can see that happening to anyone of either sex. I don’t think it’s easy for either sex.

                      Plus, there’s a thing goin round, via govt. and social bs that makes it more difficult.

                      I’d get more in depth on this but it would be tough for me to be factual and even more tough to be honest. True love, no matter what, is extremely hard to find. I’ll stop it at that. Good luck to all that truly seek love and companionship and honesty from a mate. it seems to be fairly easy in other cultures. The American culture seems to have lost all honesty…..and it’s a damned shame. This situation has been brought on by the Marxist who want to destroy the nation, the Republic and the family.

                      They’ve been doing this since the 30’s and via public education. You have vile people such as AOC and BS among others that are knowingly or unknowingly(AOC) to destroy the relationship between men and women. I’d kill them all if it would reverse 80 years of propaganda but it won’t. Bernie is the epitome of that which creates such as AOC. it’s a damn shame and I feel helpless in countering their communist and anti-male manifesto.

                      They are evil and probably don’t even realize it. If only I could have talked the other half into going to S. American 20 years ago when I was younger, stronger, and not a force to be jacked with.

                    • That was the line in 1998’s “Six Days, Seven Nights”, where the pilot, played by Harrison Ford, bantering with his charter passenger (Anne Heche, which appropriately rhymes with ‘yeech’!), says, “how do you get a guy’s interest? You show up…that’s it! We’re guys..we’re ‘easy’!”

              • Gtc,

                Sad thing is this. When I was a younger man, I was a judge for such things as wet T-shirt and banana eating contests.

                Ran into a younger fellow the other day who was telling me about girls participating in a chicken wing eating contest.

                • Lol, see what I mean? Isn’t it amazing just how sad things have become? They don’t realize that “sameness” is NOT equality! Personally, I’m still trying to figure out why the chicken wing, a nearly meatless part of a chicken, is so popular. I suppose the generation after them is going to be chewing on chicken feet, and thinking that is “fun” too! Oh yeah, that and “ribs”. Just think, tomorrow’s “human”-kind won’t need real food. They will just sit around roasting and gnawing on chicken bones for amusement!

                • Hi T,

                  In my area at least – and on the various dating apps – it seems that a strong majority of single women are very overweight, or hagged out divorcees with some other man’s kids in tow. The attractive younger ones are demanding/bitchy and have absurdly high mandatory minimums – they’ll only date guys who look like Brad Pitt and make six figures. Or at least, who make six figures. The good news is, those guys will end up giving half of those six figures to the ex, when she is.

                  • That’s pretty much it all over. But you forgot the tattoos, wanting to be free to be with other men, etc.

                    Six figures alone isn’t enough except to attract those with financial needs.

                    Speaking of giving half or more up in divorce in my area online dating is loaded with divorced women around my age with no marketable skills living in the richest suburbs in the 50-100mile radius. So they took the last guy for several hundred grand or millions so what they are going to do to the next guy? And many younger ones seemingly want to follow that same path.

                  • Seems to me that EVERYONE is too picky. There is crazy in too much choice, or the perception there of. 1 in 6 humans are compatible with one another. Those are good odds, but why are so many adults lonely? Not just single people, but those in relationships are too.

                    My theory: everyone in this dating game thinks (because the apps have a seemingly endless menu of people) that you have a seemingly endless menu of people. You try a guy or girl and he or she may be great for your life. But you’re under the illusion that you have endless choice, so you find flaws that you’d otherwise dismiss. OR gain some sort of inflated opinion of yourself because you have a few girls/guys on the line that week.

                    Transitory feelings: this happens because of high rejection rate. People THINK they have more options so dismiss each other carelessly. This is bad behavior, and is equally prevalent among men and women.

                    Fat chicks on apps: consider this, if you’re past the age of 30 and on a dating app, YOU most certainly have some flaws. Maybe it is a fat bod, maybe it is damaged psyche from your past. For some reason, you can’t find a person in your normal routine. I don’t suggest anyone lower his or her standards, but maybe broadening them wouldn’t be a bad call. You may have dated someone “ideal” in your past, but if you’re past 30 and single, you’re NO ONE’s “ideal”. The entropy of our bodies will turn every person into a shit bag eventually, there is no exception to this rule. Science says.

                    In closing: If on the “market”, remember to be kind. Make your intentions clear, and consider that the people you’re dealing with are people too. Even causal hook ups deserve respect. It is perfectly fine not to like somebody, but it is rude to string a person along. On the flip, it is rude to pester a person that is clearly not into it. No need to create unnecessary insecurity. Life is hard and short for most. Open those cold black hearts! Bunch of bitches.

                    • Men are well aware of their flaws. Men are made painfully aware of their flaws early on.

                      Per the famous okcupid study as but one example, men judge women on a nice bell curve, a standard distribution. Women judge men on an 80/20 rule. Then there is always seeing if they can do better.

                      Men are shamed for not accepting whatever woman that will have them. Then when she cleans him out told they chose the wrong one.

                      Men were far better off before the internet. I didn’t much notice for years because the internet made the rest of the world much like engineering school. What is typical behavior for women today is much like the way girls behaved in engineering school before the internet. It is the behavior of so many choices available.

                      Most men simply don’t have it that way.

            • Amen, Eight.

              Men and women can complement one another. Because each do different things better than the other. As you pointed out. I could physically deal with a recalcitrant 17-year-old boy; a woman generally cannot. But she can salve a kid’s feelings in ways that most men never could.

              The three Ps – Provision, Protect and Procreate. Most men grok these and instinctively want to perform those functions. Women have different instincts because they have different functions. I wouldn’t presume to assert I am better at these than they are.

              • Heck yes, eric! It is a natural woman’s (which I guess there aren’t many anymore) duty to appreciate and respect her man for doing these things. When she does this he keeps her. It isn’t rocket surgery, but things have gotten so out of balance in society that people seem to have forgotten their natural roles.

                “Submit to your husband” has been turned into a negative thing. I don’t get it. We’re supposed to do this in exchange for his protection and provision. love, respect, and appreciate these things. Also, it’s easier for men to do these things than it is for women. It is easier for woman to do her work. It is backwards to do things we’re naturally bad at, and more difficult. Waste of energy.

                This can’t sustain, one day roles will be returned to nature. Or maybe we’ll evolve to adapt.. guess we’ll see…

                • Women voted for the state to take from men so they wouldn’t need those things from men individually any longer. Men are only now needed collectively.

              • eric, I thought the entire point of life….LIFE, was to have men and women complement each other. Otherwise, what is the point?

                I realize I’m old school but I love women. I was raised with women. I learned their foibles and learned to love them for what they are. I think I’m better off for it.

                I know many people without siblings and they all regret not having same. I think I’d feel the same way. Viva la difference!!

                BTW. I think love and sex and the combination are worth more than anything else in life.

                I pity those who don’t appreciate these lyrics.

                Are you lonesome tonight,
                Do you miss me tonight?
                Are you sorry we drifted apart?
                Does your memory stray to a brighter sunny day
                When I kissed you and called you sweetheart?
                Do the chairs in your parlor seem empty and bare?
                Do you gaze at your doorstep and picture me there?
                Is your heart filled with pain, shall I come back again?
                Tell me dear, are you lonesome tonight?

                • Therein lies the current problem- Modern women no longer complement men; they compete with them. They’ve been taught that all of the complementary things they did; the things they do bes; the things they were created to do and are naturally suited for, are somehow now evil and beneath them; and that they will miss out on some life of glorious delights and treasures if they dare not participate in the military-industrial complex.

                  • Some believe that’s their true nature – government and institutions simply made their longing for power a reality.

      • Often it’s some hateful hag, whom either has a face that would stop Big Ben, or who’s large enough to justify her own ZIP code, that gives you crap about looking at her “that” way…as if you’ve either some weird fetish about unattractive women, or, in her demented psyche, she wishes that indeed you WOULD pay her some attention!

        Sometimes these Feminazi bitches need to be reminded that without the so-called “Patriarchy” that NONE of us, including THEM, would exist! Even with the “turkey baster”, there still has to be some male whom, at the fertility clinic, “banished some ‘White Russians’ from his ‘Kremlin'”! It’s simple biology that the human male is VISUALLY stimulated to follow females that he finds attractive, else the porno industry could not exist!

        • I’d never donate sperm without seeing the recipient first.

          No ugly chicks, no fat chicks, no mudflaps, no carpet munchers.

        • There are a lot of anti-porn feminists and non-feminists that are pushing for an outright porn ban.

          But porn is small potatoes compared to sexbots. I predict sexbots will make real women obsolete, especially with the continuous breakthroughs happening in artificial intelligence.

          • Hi Handler,

            The sexbot is Feminism’s worst nightmare. For years, Feminists have argued they don’t need men – and now comes the thing that will eliminate men’s need for women!

            • From the androids of “I Mudd” and other Star Trek episodes to “Weird Science” it was pretty clear where this course would lead.

            • Austin Powers (after his “wife”, Vanessa, tries to kill him, and her true nature is revealed, an effective way to not pay Liz Hurley whatever she wanted for the sequel…)…”Oh no! She a FEMBOT!” Yet Austin somehow had a “smashing” good time, wot?

              Actually, I liked Quark’s “holosuites” from Star Trek: DS9, especially where there’s some anomaly in an early episode and “holograms” are solidly reproduced on the station, including a portly ballplayer (a sort of Oriental version of John Kruk) who somehow broke DiMaggio’s hitting streak, and a version of Jadzia Dax that is amorous and hot for Dr. Bershear…much to the ‘real’ Jadzia’s annoyance, at first of ‘presumption’, and later of jealousy! Indeed, if such a device were real, we guys would have to beat off into test tubes and our seed inserted into females desperate to bear children, as we could just have sex partners and companions to our exact specifications! And even in the original ST, one “rogue’, Harcourt Fenton Mudd, whom was, IMO, a very ‘misunderstood’ entrepreneur, while causing copious copies of the Maisy and Trudy series of female androids to be manufactured, made the mistake of, as “Bones” observed, to leave his wife (quite understandably, as she’s the ultimate ‘cure, for priapism) and yet bring her along anyway…as later on, once Kirk pulls off yet another mind-fuck on the hapless androids, especially poor “Norman”, their leader, and regains control of the Enterprise, Mudd is ‘rewarded’ with his ‘beloved’ Stella…at least 500 copies of her, anyway!

          • AR/VR is making some progress on that front. With the added bonus of looking down and seeing your (or someone’s) 20 year old body instead of your paunchy gut!

    • Grils being fun. I don’t even remember that now. Girls, women today, you’ve barely met them (or online barely communicated with them) and they are already judging, demanding, probing, etc.

      • Quentin Tarantino put it best in “Kill Bill, Vol. II”…when the “cruel” Chinese martial arts master, Pai Mei (who hates the Goddamned Japs) tells Beatrix Kiddo that all American women know is to spend a man’s money and order in restaurants. Get yourself a freshly-imported Slavic girl, most of them are very good-looking and know how to be LADIES. Just be careful that she doesn’t try to bring over her entire extended family on your dime!

          • Make sure she’s already HERE…if you have to travel to get there, don’t bother, it’s a scam, fer sure.

        • While Slavic and Asian women are much better-looking than the American She-pig, they’re still just as manipulative.

          • Quite a few years ago an acquantance went the Slavic “mail order bride” route. He didn’t have much money but spent most of what he had getting her over to the U.S. – where she promptly dumped him and found herself someone wealthy to marry instead. Yes, better-looking than the typical American heifer or pussy-hat loon but, as you say, just as manipulative.

          • I’ve known a Slavic fambly(and some of their relatives) since I was 16. Nice people- but like just about all foreigners who come here, they come for all of the goodies.

            The two daughters (one late 30’s, other early 40’s) are fat cows and unmarried. One of the relatives daughters is the biggest bitch you’d ever want to meet.

            Sadly, they pursued the good life to the point where it has destroyed their health. They achieved some wealth (middle-class)- but other than sumptuous feasts and fleeting luxuries, have little to show for it.

            Sadly, such is the case with most foreigners who come here- abandoning their extended famblies and ancestral homes for promises of wealth and prosperity. They lose the good characteristics which they had when they were living more traditionally in their own countries.

            If ya want a good one, you have to go there…and stay there- ’cause the ones that come here, or are brought here, are looking to ditch the very things which would make them desirable to us.

            This family whom I know, were strong people (character-wise and physically) when they were new to this country when I first met them. Our decadent way of life has literally destroyed them and their children now. It’s been sad to see.

            • Hey Nunz,

              “Humans can not digest animal fat.”

              Sorry Nunz, I’m calling bullshit on this one (got any sources?). As for pork, it is not inherently “unclean”. It can be contaminated or loaded with growth hormones and chemicals, but that is a quality issue that affects all food.

              Since I adopted a mostly meat, including lots of bacon, and low carb vegetable diet, I’ve lost over 50 pounds and kept it off. My physical endurance also improved dramatically because my body no longer relies on glucose as the sole energy source.


          • That’s why, if a guy wants to marry a foreign woman, he’s better off going to HER country vs. bringing her to the USSA. Then, he kills two birds with one stone: he finds a woman who’s odds-on better than what he can find here, plus he moves to a place that likely has more freedom. Sounds like a winner to me… 🙂

        • They bring a lot of bullshit to the table, that is for sure. At this point in my life I prefer the company of my pets.

          • Hi Jason,

            There is so much pressure on men and women that developing and maintaining a long-term bond is very hard. Unrealistic expectations fostered by the culture; economic and time pressures. The general sense of things not being right (and they aren’t). Emphasis on transitory feelings; unwillingness to forgive mistakes, etc.

            Almost everyone I know is divorced. I thought I’d beat the odds.

            I didn’t.

            • if you have your house and your ride after the divorce, you WON, Eric. Sad for a still somehow practicing Mormon to say it, but it’s the unfortunate truth that a high school chum and one time business partner (we had a janitorial company when I was in college) put it…”if it floats, flies, or FUCKS, it’s cheaper to RENT!”.

              I hope your ex didn’t get the dog(s). That’s worse than losing the kids, IMO.

              • I don’t know if Eric has/had any dogs. I know he has a few cats, which stayed with him. He always talks about going to a local joint with wifi to do his writing, so the cats don’t walk all over his computer… 🙂

                You’re right; since he kept his house and ride, he won.

                • Hi Mark,

                  I have five cats… which may explain why I have no girlfriend! Fuzz guards the garage; the others guard me. I used to have a black lab; he died in ’13. At some point, I’d like to get another dog – but I feel guilty as it is about there not being enough of me to go around for the cats. I don’t want to disappoint them – or do wrong by a dog who would also want – and be entitled to – attention I might not be able to deliver…

                  • Cats are better than a GF. They’re always there for you; they won’t divorce you, let alone take half your shit; they show more gratitude for whatever you do for them; and they don’t do drama like women do!

                    • No one “owns” a cat…a cat deigns to live in your house, as long as you feed him. Dogs, OTOH, are nature’s ass-kissers and suckups.

                  • Now you sound like me, Eric. 8 ride-able bikes, and I can’t bring myself to be away from my four-legged football for more than 2 hours. Especially now that he is 12 years old, and I’m all he has for company, to boot. He is, however, more appreciative of anything I do for him, and more loyal than any woman ever has been, so he deserves my care, at the very least. I do still get cabin fever every now and then, so your not alone there, lol!

                  • Hey Eric,

                    “Now, all the bacon I inhale may result in a massive stroke, but it’ll be a quick fell – like an oak that got hit by lightning.”

                    Don’t believe the hype! Bacon is good for you. Someday, the government created and scientifically unjustified crusade against fat will be understood as the greatest “public health” disaster in modern history. Low fat = high carb and high sugar; consumption of both rose dramatically due to the war on fat. Higher carb and sugar intake is the most likely cause of the dramatic increase in diabetes and obesity plaguing much of the western world.

                    Good science into this strong correlation has been delayed, prevented or dismissed by the actions of special interest groups that always coalesce around government guidelines, programs, funding, etc…


                    • Amen, Jeremy – I am hip!

                      Granted, I do a lot f physical work… but I also eat a very meat-centric diet and avoid carbs. This has helped me maintain the same basic body I have had since I was a teenager. No diabeetus. No high blood pressure, either.

                    • Hey Jeremy,

                      Fat ain’t the problem with pork. The fact that pigs [They’re freaking PIGS!] are scavengers- and as such, even when fed a ‘clean’ diet, still do not produce flesh that is of a clean nature, because they have very simple digestive systems- unlike that say of a cow, whioch has four stomachs, and processes anything consumed quite thoroughly over a period of time.

                      Also, as with most things, the government and it’s scientists and academics can never get it quite right- they go from one extreme to the other. While all fat may not be bad for us, as they previously claimed (such as vegetable fat), neither is all fat innocuous. Humans can not digest animal fat. Dogs can…but we can’t- so our bodies must find other ways of dealing with it and it’s byproducts.

                      I know a guy who has always eaten the fat on his meat. He’s of the same heritage as myself- as his parents and other relatives, just like mine, lived very long, and were quite healthy and still viable till near the end. The guy who eats the fat though? He’s only 70- and in addition to having endured a plethora a health issues unknown to either of our families (Such as frequent kidney stones; gout; major joint issues; high BP) now has pancreatic and bone cancer.

                      Anecdotal? Yep. But all I know, is I avoid pork and animal fat and such religiously [literally! 😀 ] and I’ve managed to maintain good health and haven’t seen a doctor in 40 years……

                      I believe that the current flip-flop on dietary ‘science’ is much akin to the change from Global Warming to ‘climate change. They can’t hide the fact that their science was wrong- but instead of getting it right, they’re just switching to something different, so that they can continue to control the agenda and mesmerize the faithful- who will of course believe the ‘new science’ just as readily as they believed the old.

                      I mean, isn’t it funny- 40 years of junk dietary science, and now everyone just “sees the light” all at once; all at the same time?

                      They’ll never get it right, even if they were honest, because humanity is too complex and varied; and the time needed to assess results, even when the right questions and theses are proposed, are far too long to be of any use to anyone currently living. All the ‘studies’ amount to little more than anecdotal evidence- which is why they were so wrong in the past, and no one noticed until now, when the effects of their advice weren’t having the desired results.

                  • Hey Eric,

                    Hah! It’s great to see that scene again. I remember it as “awesome set”. Good thing I didn’t include “excellent memory” in my pitch to Anon.


                • I love the way many women will just abandon everything- home, husband, pets….and more and more (as is the case with several guys I know- and I don’t know that many people) even the kids- in pursuit of this wonderful happiness that they feel they lack, but which they feel is out there somewhere……

                  Dogs and cats don’t do that.

                  • Yep, it does. My cat won’t want to ‘eat, pray, and love’; my cat won’t try to get his groove back. I could go on, but you get my point…

                    • Morning, Mark!

                      One (of many) things about cats: He (or she) will just hop onto your lap or snuggle up beside you and start purring. If that doesn’t make you feel better, it’s hard to imagine what could!

                    • My cat likes to hop up on my desk and ‘help’ me study… 🙂

                      So, how come Fuzz guards the garage?

                      When my cat hops beside me, it makes me happy too… 🙂

                    • Hey Eric & MM,

                      I never appreciated cats so much until recently. I’ve always fed armies of strays, my whole adult life- but I always felt that they didn’t make the best house pets.

                      It wasn’t until fairly recently that a couple of the strays worked their way into the house (How’d that happen?! I’ve always been a loyal dog person!) that I’ve come to appreciate what loving and entertaining creatures they are!

                      Unlike with dogs, it can take some time and effort to establish a real relationship with a cat- but like most things worth having…it’s well worth it!

                  • My mom did that. I was already grown, but my brothers were really little. It was sad and so hard on my dad. I would NEVER leave a man that provided and cared for me, or just cared would be enough.

                    I know I’m in the woman-hating man club, but there are good women still. I know I’m one. My dad raised me well. I do some annoying chick stuff, like text too much, and want attention… sorry bout that. But I also do great chick stuff, like cook, clean, and (cough) other duties, very well. But I don’t have an off switch… again, sorry, boys.

                    • Chick stuff can be cool- viva la difference! Women who act like ‘one of the guys’ don’t cut it.

                      It’s just like cat and dog stuff- They’re different than we are, and we love them for it!

                      I think what matters is a woman’s character and personality [NOT discounting looks here- ya have to be thoroughly “into” the physical attraction part]…and (and this is a biggie) that she is into you as much as you are into her- as opposed to what is more commonly seen, where each participant is more into their own self; their own life; and the relationship and romance are just one little compartment of that life. -And that is a HUGE problem, more so as time progresses in the industrialized world, where people have so much else to occupy their time and minds.

                      People seem to have largely forgotten the “two become one flesh[one entity]” thing.

                      Between all the distractions today, and the mantras of feminism propagating the idea that a woman needs to ‘find herself’ and find her fulfillment out in the world, most marriages become essentially just two ‘friends’ living together for convenience and legalities.

                      I’ll never forget this poor slob I worked with once- he was the spitting image in every way of Danny DeVito’s “Louie DePalma character from the sitcom Taxi (She picked him…)- His wife, in her mid 50’s, in addition to working full time, was going to law school. She’d leave the house before 7AM and return after 10PM.

                      No marriage there….. (Have no idea what she was planning on doing at her age after law school!)

                    • Heya nunz,

                      I’m not in the club, I’m visiting you guys in it. I’m definitely not ‘one of the guys’.. just want to make that clear (for some reason).
                      I just like cars and quality discussions. Where else can a self-educated, small town girl turn? The wal*mart? The quik lube? Church? 😂🤣 hard pass. Internet it is! Plus, I don’t want any of the guys to know I like this stuff in real life, they’ll think I’m a gay.

                    • And I get what you’re saying about everyone being caught up in their own thing. I personally make myself available if it seems like there is a connection. All these dudes seem to want is the physical stuff, then out the door. They might pretend to be interested just enough.. but it seems like no one really wants to connect emotionally. Dude’s drop chicks so fast at the first sign of an emotional connection. Especially if they feel it too, then pout because they don’t have a girlfriend. Maybe I’m dumb here. I haven’t been single too long, but things have really changed. Im aware of my flaws, and don’t date out of my league… I don’t get it.

                    • Hi Anonymous,

                      Tiredness and cynicism abounds. Relationships are perilous for men and women in an age of distrust and constantly changing expectations and relentless pressure, financial and otherwise. But men are rightly terrified of dealing with women because of the threat they might be accused of something they didn’t do – and a system that takes accusations as evidence – and a system that will cost them everything they worked all their lives to build if a woman they married or even live with decides she no longer feels the way she used to, wants out (no problem there) but also wants a big chunk for her time and alleged troubles.

                      Some women may be trustworthy – but men are rightly reluctant to take a chance on any of them because of the stakes involved.

                      All my friends are divorced. All the divorces initiated by the wives. None of the guys bad guys; faults, certainly. But all of us hard-working, responsible dudes who didn’t drink/dope/fuck around or beat our exes. We were told we “didn’t listen”… meaning, didn’t intuit whatever they were feeling. Because they never said anything. Until they decided, one fine day, to just announce they were unhappy and it was time to split or move out, etc.

                      Most men are I think dopey romantics who actually take marriage vows seriously. The better/worse and richer/poorer stuff. Till death do us part. No man of my acquaintance who got married did so with the slightest thought that one day he wouldn’t be – and assumed the woman he married thought (not felt) the same. Was committed, all in – forever. That even if things got shitty, we’d stick together and stick it out. Else why bother? Why not just fuck until you’re sick of each other and move on?

                      This is much easier for most men to do by the way – as we (at least biologically) age differently than women. A man in his 40s or 50s can – assuming he is basically sound and takes care of himself – do pretty much anything, physically speaking, that he could have at 25. Possibly more. Our strength and vitality – measures of youth – last longer. And by our 40s and 50s, most men have built careers and have means and this appeals to younger women.

                      A guy in his 40s or 50s who isn’t a loser can easily hook up with women in their 20s and 30s… but a woman in her 40s and 50s is generally up scheisse creek as she is used up and no longer of much interest to a man who has the option to go younger. And younger men have no interest in the used-up/hagged out menopausal old crone except as a casual fuck, perhaps.

                      This is the reality of today – brought to life by Feminism. But it’s a cruel joke and the punchline is on women, mostly.

                    • eric,

                      Fully understand what you’re saying. Having been in a relationship all of my adult life until now, the last time I “dated” was when I was a teenager. Im definitely not used up hag age, I’m young and look 10 years younger. Lucky me. But I think it comes down to illusion of choice. And the fact that you guys are used up, although it is in a different way.

                      I don’t mesh with men my age for some reason, I prefer older gen-x or boomers, but you guys are used up and hagged out just as much as your female counterparts. Tired all the time, ugly, buckled up brows. Filled with hate for all women, and resentful and distant to the good ones. You punish us for what your wives did to you. When we’re a generation or two removed from those feminist bitches. I only watched Oprah in The Color Purple.

                      The joke is on me, but time is running out for you. I saw it happen in my last. Handsome strong man, mid-50’s silver fox. Could stomp a mud hole in a man half his age. 10 short years later, can barely do for himself. For no good reason. He pushed me away, and could have had me the rest of his life. Now he needs help. You will too, and MUCH faster than you think. Entropy is the rule. Science says.

                      Guys, if you are older and have a young chick wanting to hang around you, she might be worth the risk. Especially if she has a strong back, because you’re gonna need help one day. Your second act is the decline of your youth and strength. If you’re in your 50’s and can still get one of these girls, you’d better quit fucking around and make her yours. You’re going to need her, and probably her brothers too. End rant.

                    • Anon, not every man is “used up” after 60. I’m closer to 70 than 69 and while I do have my problems, a heel spur and shoulders that could use a work-over, I took a job less than a year ago doing that bust-ass oilfield equipment hauling but due to a foul-up of the truck owner mistaking my home base 150 miles closer to Midland than I live, I had to give it up. It was a $10,000/month job, nothing to brag about but a good paycheck nevertheless.

                      I had to give it up because fo the wife, who has let herself go to the point(and I warned her for years to not just lay around all day)where my being gone for 3 weeks at a time would have me come by to find a corpse. She falls….and she can’t get up. She’s fine as long as there’s a cold beer and a glass of bourbon near where she fell.

                      OTOH, I still bust ass 10 hours a day driving a truck, operating a loader, building a road with a grader I’ve hauled aggregate to via truck and loader.

                      Several years ago she told me I was angry. I am angry about everything this country has become, about what she has become and what most of society has become. I told her she was right, it is anger that gets me up and sends me out for an indeterminate time of busting ass, dealing with govt. and all the rest of the things that don’t have to be.

                      After all, it should be a no-brainer when I’m asked to spend the week-end(with no legal hours left)hauling one load after the other from a pit somewhere they’ve left a loader for me to use and paperwork for me to fill out…..for them. Pile in on boys, I love it. Well, I do love it on the week-ends when I rarely see a DOT and very few others are working.

                      I picked up a load of groceries, beer and dog and cat food the other day. The wife gets out of the pickup, comes into the house to rest a while, riding is hard you know. I threw a 50 lb bag of pet food over each shoulder and hauled it to the place where it’s stored. I made that trip a few times…..after I’d unloaded everything else in the pickup.

                      Shit happens to people sometimes. Maybe your silver fox had something physically wrong. I can guarantee you I and most people my age I know and work with, bust ass when they don’t feel like it. But life is about busting ass and once you stop, you will probably stop altogether.

                      I can promise you the only grandfather I ever knew busted ass till his clock was punched. My grandmother led the easiest life she could for as long as I knew her. After all, she’d had a bunch of kids and “raised” them, as if she busted ass at the house or at work and then her job was done. It was time to sit and drink a Dr. Pep 3 times a day, watch soaps on a B&W tv and get worse and worse out of shape.

                      At least only 2 of her 4 daughters sat back and let life slide and blew every dime their husbands would allow and stuff that doesn’t even matter. The other 2 that kept busting ass did so till their late 80’s when they had some age related illness take them. One died of Parkinson’s, a disease that might have been solved by now had the shrub used his presidential authority to not let researchers us fetal material. BTW, there’s plenty fetal material that doesn’t involve abortion. Rant over.

                    • Hi Anon,

                      Heh, that’s the other side of the coin- good men are just as hard to find as are good women.

                      Things have been made even worse thanks to the Sexual Revolution.

                      No-commitment no-consequence sex threw a monkey wrench into the machinery which used to safeguard the most intimate and foundational institution of life and society; that of love and marriage and family. We are now seeing the results before our very eyes.

                      It’s to the point where it’s no longer even just about ‘finding a good man/woman’ [I saw one of those in the grocery store last week! 😉 ) but rather, the whole culture of dating/relationships has become so screwed-up, that it virtually guarantees dysfunction.

                      When I used to date, the idea of just taking up with a random person in this culture was abhorrent; I realized that in order to even remotely have a shot at finding any true substance, it was necessary to only consider those who stood apart from what has come to be the cultural norms- and such are rare, and hard to find and identify in a ‘mass’ society such as this.

                      Oh, and hey, it’s always good to see a woman on this site! We see one every now and then, but unfortunately, they don’t tend to stay around long.

                      I don’t think that one necessarily has to be into cars to enjoy this site (Personally, I’ve made my living for a good part of my life dealing with cars in one way or another, and I’m kinda burnt-out as far as that goes; plus I abhor all of the modern cars!)- IO think it’s more of a philosophical thing – the Libertarianism, and things such as we are discussing right now- and being able to have such meaningful discussions with others who just seem to “get it”.

                    • Hey 8,

                      You sound like the real deal. I admire your work ethic, smarts (you and I have been back and forth for a couple days now), and view on the world. I’d be your girl in two seconds! I’d have 50 lbs of dog food over my shoulder along side ya! And after that, work on those shoulders of yours while dinner is in the oven! Because my job is to appreciate a hard-working man, and do what he needs to help him get back to and stay at it. (I would work a money job too, because I don’t expect a man to bank roll my life, the only feminist trait I have.) XOXO!

                    • Anon, I don’t think of this as a woman-hating club. There area lot of true stories that leave both men and women jaded.

                      I know there are a lot of good women out there and most of them are taken….as they should be.

                      I have seen women who did a flip and simply wanted to be a “boss” who saw themselves as being the worker and I’ve known some and their husbands and the husbands didn’t think of their wives as anything less than themselves but too much time watching the MSM and anyone can have their mind changed if they don’t see the bs in what’s being promoted.

                      Not every man wants a woman who had to be really good looking. For myself, I value other things more than looks for certain.

                      Nobody has mistaken me for a movie star…..ever. But when I was young I didn’t have a problem getting a date.

                      To be honest I still get a compliment now and then. I think neat and clean go a long way for either sex.

                      You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and that should be enough for realistic men.

                      I’m reminded of two people probably in their late 60’s or early 70’s back over 30 years ago. You could tell they were both probably widowed by the way she sat close to him when they were driving.

                      We were at Bob Will’s day in Turkey, Texas and their spacious park had a low spot in it that was full of spring rain.

                      This was when everybody was beginning to buy 4WD pickups and there were even a few specialty rides of that persuasion there too. This couple pulled up and was looking it over. They were in a old, green Ford F 150 with skinny tires and mudgrips on the back, just a plain-ass old pickup that he’d been driving a long time and it got him where he needed to go because he knew how to drive. So they’re sitting there looking and the younger crowd began to give them some encouragement. Since there’d already been a couple of young guys get their4WD’s stuck it was a sorta mess. So he steeled himself and she sat up even straighter and away they went. Due to his superior driving ability and those old skinny mudgrips they went right through the bog. The crowd went wild and both of them had grins from ear to ear. He turned around and did it again. Everyone was still going bonkers when they both smiled and waved and eased on off.

                      They were definitely the hit of the mud bog. They didn’t make it with an expensive device made for that, they did it by knowing what they were doing. I’ll never forget that or the fact they were both nicely dressed in western attire that wasn’t necessarily new or the latest fashion. It was one of those moments I’m sure gave them as much fun as it gave everyone else. Old is how you act.

                    • Hey Anon,

                      Meh…depends a lot on genetics, lifestyle/choices, and what one did (or didn’t do) when young, as far as how viable they’ll be in old age.

                      My uncle is 90. He drives people 20 years younger to their doctor appointments (In NYC, no less)…. (Relatives and as a volunteer).

                      My friend/employer had to go to Detroit to pick up a big F800 digger-derrick truck; needed someone to drive it back to NY, as he was also transporting a couple of cars on his trailer behind his pick-up. Who does he conscript to drive that truck? Old Man Carl- this 86 year-old dude we both know.

                      Good genetics and not having done drugs and such when we were young, goes a long way….

                      Meanwhile, half the kids I grew up with are already dead, not having made it to 50.

                      My mother (94) is always after me to get married…. “It’d be good to have someone to take care of you when you’re older”. I think of some of the 20-somethings I could be dating, and think “If I needed someone to take care of me, why would I want to condemn some nice young viable girl to life as a nursemaid?” (And these days, half the women won’t even take care of their own kids….they’re certainly not gonna take care of a geezer husband!).

                      The thought of being a burden to someone- ‘specially to someone whom I love, is repugnant.

                      ***”The above goes for you too. XOXO!”****

                      Awwwww, YOU! What kind of guy would I be if I let ya carry that dog food, though?! 😀

                    • Hiya Nunz!

                      Amen. Anonymous mentions us older dudes being “tired.” Yes, indeed. Of hassles and bullshit. But I can still cut/split and stack four cords of firewood, run 10 miles and bench press (free weights) 275 pounds. Not bad for a middle-aged guy. The fact is, I’m stronger today than I was 20 years ago. Even assuming I lose a third of my current strength, I’m still far from being a weak old febe.

                      Now, all the bacon I inhale may result in a massive stroke, but it’ll be a quick fell – like an oak that got hit by lightning.

                      My grandfather croaked that way in the shower, in his 90s. And he was still working the day that happened.

                    • Hey Eight,

                      True what ya say about just sitting around. Retirement is the biggest killer.

                      And it works the same for both genders. One of my mother’s sister-in-laws was 97- and still going to work every day- running 5 small shops in NYC that her husband had left her- and she’d WALK to work!

                      She then had a couple of relatively minor health issues, and decided to kick back and take it easy… She died less than a year later.

                    • 8,

                      ***Not every man wants a woman who had to be really good looking***

                      Just to eliminate confusion, I am good looking! Smart too! Not skinny but not my 600 lb. life either.

                      I’m blessed (or cursed) with resting baby face. Not bitch face. So, not just pretty, but nice looking. Clear and fair complexion. Pretty shiny hair, a rare eye color, and those kind of lips those girls with vanity pay large sums of their husband’s money for. Won the genetic lottery in terms of features. I could stand to loose a few, but a strong muscular, and fairly tall frame, (along with an abnormally large head) kind of balance me out. Don’t know why I felt the need to describe myself physically. Men like what they see. Gettin a date is not an issue for sure.

                      The ones I want have an insurmountable emotional fortress built around them. (I like older [therefore, damaged] men) They sneak out of a secret hole, to bang, then scurry away back through their emotional labyrinth, not to be seen again for 6-8 weeks. It it tiresome, and behavior that I loathe. They all do this. Lots of my (way better looking, and also not bitches) girlfriends are dealing with the same issue. eric said, the joke is on us. The bitch wives got the money, and left us way better replacement models, with an emotional dumpster fire to put out. before we’re even allowed to feel like we can send a text without embarrassment and fear of rejection. It’s a mess out there. I don’t recommend it!

                    • Hi Anonymous,

                      Divorce changes a guy. A gal, too – I expect. You are never The Same again. It wrecks you. Afterward, you want peace above all – and trust nothing and no one except your cats and dogs and maybe your car. Maybe.

                    • Hey Anon,

                      Are you looking for a “kept” man? If so, I’m interested. I’m very mechanically gifted and, in the words of Jeff Spicoli, “I have an awesome set of tools!” I also have a small machine shop so I can fix or build just about anything needed around the house.

                      I’m pretty fit and strong and I ride my bike almost everyday. I’m smart and funny, a good conversationalist and a good writer. I’m also an excellent cook as long as you don’t insist on pretentious fru-fru meals. Finally, I’m an award winning home-brewer, so I can keep the fridge stocked with the good stuff if you’re into that.


                    • Being falsely accused and coming close to having your life DESTROYED (all because a woman pointed her finger at you) changes you forever too. You never look at women the same way; you never really trust them again. How can you when they did nothing to OPPOSE this? How can you when they were in favor of this stuff? Women comprise the majority of voters; we have the society we do because WOMEN WANT IT.

                      I know, intellectually, that there are good women out there; they may be as rare as unicorns, but they’re out there. The problem is that they do little or nothing to DISTINGUISH THEMSELVES from the typical, American man-hating bitch.

                      When you’re falsely accused, you also lose ALL faith in your gov’t. To be hauled out of my house @ 3:00 AM disabuses you of the notion that the gov’t, the system, et al is good. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union hauled people out of their homes in the middle of the night; that’s not SUPPOSED to happen here! Not only does divorce change you; a false accusation can do the same.

                    • eric, 8, nunz, jeremy, MM, and anyone I might have missed,

                      Thanks for listening/reading/participating in my dating rants the past couple days. You’ve undoubtedly saved me thousands in therapy bills!! I’ve had some light shed on my personal journey, as well as had some confidence restored in men and humanity in general, and in myself. My deepest gratitude to you all.


                      Yeah I’m interested! You have my attention. I’d share an email address or phone number, but then I couldn’t very well remain anonymous, could I? If you want to somehow get your info to me, I’m GAME!

                      One love,


                    • Hey Anon,

                      Eric has my contact info. If you reach out to him, I give him permission to share it with you.


                    • Women that feel unhappy never know why they’re unhappy, so they find someone to point their finger at.

                      A woman could be married to a rich Dolph Lundgren doppelgänger and still manage to feel unhappy with their life.

                      It’s almost as if they’re defective.

                    • Hi Handler,

                      My 50: Women are by nature (biology) more feeling than men are. The culture (Feminism) has encouraged them to consider feelings paramount. All the time – and at any given moment. But feelings are fleeting. The expectation that the excitement and passion of an early relationship (to discuss one example) will remain the same over decades is absurd. So when a woman doesn’t feel the same after awhile, she becomes disappointed – then resentful. She isn’t getting what she feels she ought to be getting.

                      So she leaves – in search of that feeling with someone else. Rinse, repeat.

                      I’ve talked with many older people who stayed married to the same person all their lives and the common denominator is they both were determined to stay married regardless of transitory feelings. They all told me the same thing: That, at times, they did not feel “in love” with their spouse. But their love – and commitment – carried them through and over time, while passion cooled, friendship and respect deepened and love for the other waxed rather than waned.

                      What has happened to society in the West is a tragedy of Shakespearean dimensions.

                    • Hi Eric,
                      Ya know what I think has a lot to do with guys like us staying the course too? That we don’t let ourselves blow-up.

                      All the old folks I mention in my anecdotes who are still very viable well into their 80’s and 90’s- all relatives or people with whom my relatives grew up, all have one thing in common: They all came up during the Great Depression- and were the children of immigrants and or just of the lower strata of the socio-economic rung- thus, over-eating during their younger days was not an option- and just as importantly, they carried the habits they had used to survive the Depression through the rest of their lives- eating reasonably and deliberately, and never growing fat.

                      Funny thing too: None of ’em engaged in any sort of deliberate exercise (Although many of them did walk a lot); none of them practiced any sort of special diets- but they did all live clean (None of them were ever heavy drinkers, or drug users, etc. Married to one spouse their entire lives, etc.)- They just had learned, via the necessity of the Depression, not be gluttons.

                      I’m not saying that that is the reason they all lived so long- as I do believe that genetics plays a major role in that- but I do believe that the above is a good deal responsible for the quality of life and good health they have enjoyed well into advanced ages.

                      So I think that guys like you in your 40’s, and like me, at 57, at least are giving ourselves every benefit by still weighing about what we did in high-school. (Well…I am 11 lbs. heavier lately… 🙁 )

                      No guarantees in life, but when I see guys in their mid 20’s who are fat and weak and have pre-diabetes and high blood pressure, I say there but for the race to scrod go I!

                    • Handler,

                      Funny thing is, usually it’s the woman who’s making herself unhappy!

                      I hate to condemn a whole race of people, but I’ve seen (just for one example) so many women create a problem where none exists; or propose a solution for a non-existent problem- and then get mad when ya don’t implement that solution….that I really do think that a majority of ’em are bay-guano crazy!

                    • Hi Nunz,

                      I’ve noticed a “feature” common to most women: They like to complain or talk about a problem but do not want to fix the problem. When the man suggests possible ways to fix the problem, she gets mad. She does not want to fix it. She just wants to belabor it.

                    • “I’ve noticed a “feature” common to most women: They like to complain or talk about a problem but do not want to fix the problem.”


                      You’ve got that right! Whenever there is a problem, whether real or perceived, trying to inject reason, logic, and common sense into the situation just makes things worse and fans the flames of rage.

                      I’ve learned to just ride it out, preferably with a cat purring in my lap, when these ‘episodes’ occur.

              • Amen, Doug.

                My ex and I actually managed to part ways non-viciously. Neither of us tried to screw the other over on money; we just ended up screwed – divorce does that. She got three of our cats; I kept the remainder. Our dog died before our marriage did…

                • How many friggin’ cats did you two HAVE? Sheesh…well, no worries about me hittin’ on your ex, I have a “one cat” rule when it comes to ‘womyn’…I don’t want my house reeking of cat piss and shit, nor always brushing cat hair off the furniture and my clothes.

                • eric, did your dog die from heartache? I’ve seen it happen. Dogs don’t do well when the atmosphere is toxic.

                  We have more cats than you can imagine. Some inside, some outside and most inside/outside.

                  We’ve been trying to buy a door with a dog door/kitty door in it. It’s not easy, not because they don’t make them but because the dicks that sell them and the manufacturer reps don’t know shit.

                  I’ve about given up. I’m going to build a big heavy frame to go into the wooden door frame and build a angle iron frame door with 5/8″ plywood and my windows and screens I’ve managed to salvage from the doors the pigs, badged ones, tore up when we were out of town at the same time they tried to make the wife’s car’s brakes malfunction.

                  Pigs are destructive, all of them. They will eat you(4 legged)and simply kill you(2 legged) but they’re all dangerous. My new outer door is going to be pig proof. They can knock the window out…but won’t be able to smash it in. I’ve already modified my doors with 4″ screws to hold in the latches and hinges. Go ahead, smash that steel door with that big pig operated smasher. I learned a big lesson in Mexico. Smash in a person’s door? Make them laugh. They can’t be smashed in since they’re steel and sunk into concrete. I do like the way they make doors in other countries.

                  There are even laws on the books to make doors that can’t be broken in your house illegal. Of course this doesn’t go for Bloomberg or Trump, just you or me. It’s applied like all other laws.

                  • Morning, Eight!

                    My lab – Sage – lived more than 14 years, a long life for a labrador retriever. We (I was still married then) decided it was time when he could no longer stand/support his weight and was losing control of his bladder. My vet came to our house and we said goodbye in the backyard where he had enjoyed so many warm summer days and winters bounding in the snow. I buried him nearby. He’s missed – and remembered.

                    • Nunz, you couldn’t be more wrong on a subject that what you just said.

                      To begin with, pork is a very mild, almost white meat. OH, I know the stuff you get in the store is cured with the cheapest form of salt and other chemicals and gives it that red look and strong taste.

                      Wild hog on the other hand, is a very mild meat and the fat is very good for humans who can readily digest it.

                      The poor old pig has always been the “guinea pig” for research of the human gut since it’s almost identical.

                      Don’t take my word for this. Check it out.

                      Feeding hogs commercial feed and having wild hogs is two different food sources and two different meats…..

                      I love wild pork. It’s very mild, succulent and tasty. I eat store bought hog and occasionally have a fed hog butchered, the best pork I eat is one I shoot and butcher myself. I’d do more of them if they weren’t so damned hard to skin which gets arthur going in my hands and wrists. I’m not fit to shoot for a few days after butchering a hog but once over the bad part of it, I do love the results.

                      I’ve been raising hogs for 60 years and won numerous awards at stock shows my entire 10=18 year old life. I was a champion breeder and studied the real truth about hogs all through high school.

                      I have no idea where you got your information but it couldn’t be more wrong. Wild hog tallow is much healthier to us for cooking that almost any fat, esp. vegetable fats of which few are healthy.

                      I only need to walk into the bedroom to see my trophies for champion hog raising. I didn’t pursue cattle since I didn’t have the money to invest for champion calves but I could spot a winner when I saw one and even surprised many an old hand at guessing their weight before going onto the scale.

                      I grew up a farmer, rancher and trucker, a not uncommon threesome. I didn’t quit raising hogs till the wife, a few years ago, quit being able to feed them when I was gone. I still shoot a wild one now and then.

                      If you want to know what causes gout, there are many causes and sugar is one of the main ones.

                      But gout doesn’t actually come from eating fat. There are foods that increase chances of gout, a form or arthritis. I have noticed one of the main forms for causing arthritis is excessive use of the hands, such as beating on things with a hammer or straining with wrenches such as using channel locks all day twisting conduit together for a quarter mile per run.

                      Like the heel spurs I’ve bee suffering, it’s not what I eat but what I do, been working on concrete doing hard work on big equipment and climbing on it(big steps, really big steps). It’s about 4 feet from the highest step on the grader I operate to the top of the body. It doesn’t help any part of my body, especially my heel…..of my thrice broken leg. I just take some ibuprofen and keep on.

          • My life improved immeasurably when I realized that I didn’t need a woman to be happy. So much mental effort was wasted when I was young, hoping to find that ‘special soul-mate’ before I got too old. One day I realized that while it might be nice, that I best be careful not to ruin my happiness by striving for something which might or might not materialize; and which might or might not actually make me happy- or could even make me miserable.

            I thus concluded that it wasn’t the lack of an appropriate woman, but the erroneous idea that I was somehow missing something that I was supposed to need, that was the problem. And of course, once one realizes that a perceived problem is not in-fact a problem, life changes for the better in an instant.

            Glad I figured that out while I was still young, and before I got into a situation which may’ve had far-reaching consequences. Of course, I then adopted the attitude that I can be perfectly happy as I am, and if I ever find ‘that special someone’, so be it.

            Then I wised-up, and realized that not only do I love being alone, but that these days, messing with ANY woman is not worth it, and no matter how ‘perfect’ the woman, she’d wreck my happiness. And let me tell yous, not having to even consider the prospect of looking; dating; relationships; marriage; etc. is in itself a HUGE freedom; it literally frees a good deal of your gray matter to be used for other more profitable tasks, and removes the specter of doom and dread that always seemed to occupy the area of the brain devoted to such pursuits.

            Maybe if women were different; if they were what they once were: Nurturing and lady-like- then maybe I’d feel like I’d missed something; but with what’s out there today (and throughout my lifetime) I haven’t missed a thing, except misery and trouble!

            • Nunzio,

              You sound like you’re speaking for me! I realized that, after chasing the ‘holy grail’ of having a soul mate, I slowly realized that life can be ok without one. After the passage of time, my attitude became like yours: if I find someone, great; if not, life goes on. Now, it’s just me and my cat, and we’re content to just chill out with one another…

              • While the ball and chain watches some stupid(really stupid) movie, me and Possum, a great big tom cat is taking up my entire torso(yep, he’s mighty big….and hot)but he’s a sweetheart.

                If you want to be one of those people who say “There oughta be a law”, I might agree with one if it said the limit of a marriage would be 7 years. That’s a common time for couples to be married. I figure it has something to do with every cell in your body being replaced every 7 years.

                • Then again, consider yourself when you were 7…and then 14, 21, 28, 35, 42, 49, 56, 63…..hmmm, there may be something to that 7 year marriage. I’m beginning to understand why I moved to where I had no neighbors when I was 26 and have maintained that way since. At about 35 I realized the truth in full about good fences make good neighbors. I haven’t cared what it cost to maintain good fences since. Walls would be better. I think a 40’X40′ concrete and steel wall all the way around the property would be close to great. Of course just add any amount to both dimensions and it would be that much better. I don’t even want a gate, just a tunnel, one full of set charges.
                  The house would be a sham. I’d live Under the wall. The mylar panels wouldn’t be windows, per se’, they’d be covers for Bofors.

                • Trouble is, Eight, it seems that the cells of men are replenished with better ones every seven years….while in women, it seems to be the opposite.

                  • Amazing that 16 year olds are now jailbait when a less than 100 years ago the typical age of the couples involved in the OK land rush were 14….and grown, maybe 16 at the latest for men.

                    Men reach their full strength potential around 35 and sometimes later.

                    Women are just fine and dandy(although these days not nearly as mature as when I was that age). 20 has a lot of them fat, saggy and ignorant.

                    In my view, it’s women who have caused this and their pussified men.

                    Even back when I as young 15 year olds got married and sometimes younger. Loretta Lynn was a grandmother at 28.

                    • Now you have to wait until they’re around 28 or 30 when they’re out of college and working.

                      Why even bother?

                    • Hi Handler,

                      Indeed. If the object of the exercise is the creation of families as opposed to the pursuit of material ends. Women are at their biological peak (and peak value) from mid-late teens through their mid 20s. This is the time nature designed them to become mothers. But the materialism of the modern age applies immense pressure on women and men to delay beginning families – and by dint of that, forming lifelong pair bonds until youth is becoming early middle age. By which time, it is harder to form pair bonds, in part because everyone – many people – have been fucking around so much in between.

                      Men have become cynical. Women, used up.

                      Biology is a cruel bitch – but Feminism is far worse because it has tricked many women into believing that biology does not apply. A woman’s “window” is much smaller than a man’s, generally speaking. She has sexual market value – important to men – from her mid-late teens through her early-mid-30s. After that, she is ready for the 50 percent off aisle.

                      A man’s market value, on the other hand, is his capacity to procreate, provide and protect – which increases as he matures. A successful man in his 40s or 50s can have as many 20 and 30 year old women as he likes. They have value to him and he has value to them.

                      Observe that looks (and age) matter far less to women than to men. There is a reason for this. Women are attracted to strong, capable men who can provide. Looks – and age – are peripheral to those things. Men, meanwhile, are attracted to fertile, healthy and feminine (young) women.

                      Hard-wired biology.

                      You almost never see a menopausal woman with an attractive much younger guy. But one regularly sees middle-aged guys with girlfriends 20 years their junior.

                      Most men who have the option to have a 20 or 30 year-old woman do not want a 40-plus-year-old woman. But those 40 year-old women haven’t got the option. Their value – to most men – is gone. They spent it frivolously – fucking and having fun. And now, no one wants them anymore.

                      Don’t blame men.

                      Thank Feminism.

            • MM, it really says something about what women have done to themselves when dogs and cats can provide far superior companionship (and loyalty, and comfort, and joy, etc.) than any woman, with none of the detriments!

    • The Matrix has you…and them…and us.

      Where are the adventures that MADE the young man of yore into a man? Girls, cars/bikes, firearms, hooch, road trips…all, sometimes at the same time. It’s all of a piece, the degeneration of society and loss of proper “rites of passage” for young men. Go-carts, minibikes, dirt bikes, then cars…oh heavens NO, we can’t have those unsaaaaafe go-cart things rolling around, someone might put their eye out! So, with no precursor, and with even BICYCLES being almost verboten for pre-teens, you get what we have now.

      I for one did not agree to this degree of ear-tagging!

    • gtc, having a girl’s arms wrapped around you and riding hard for many miles, a thrill a second sorta ride was the next thing to heaven when you stopped and both your hearts were beating hard. A hot bike, a hot girl, a hot time. Oh to be young again.

      • You know, Eight, it’s so hard to get that simple notion of “chemistry” across to people today. Any suggestion of having a a blast with any less than 10 feet separating you from the girl, is met with suspicion. Even ones of our own generation have become infected with paranoia and distrust. You can’t hardly suggest something that includes some closeness without some ludicrous sexual “intent” being inferred. Almost reminds me of Victorian “USA” prudery at thew turn of the 20th century.

        • Well, gtc, it WAS sexual intent, at least on her and my part. I couldn’t tell the bike cared except it sure ran better with just one on it.

          There is a group of old men(me and several old college buds)who converse every day via email. I don’t recall how the subject came up but it was about getting old and I said something like “Damn, I had a comeuppance when I was 45 and lost that hardon briefly, I’d had since I was 13”. “It freaked me out some”.

          Everybody had a different answer and some were on their hypocrite horse but one I didn’t suspect supported me and agreed with me. A couple wanted to know what I meant, 3 or 4 simply didn’t comment(silence is golden…and telling). I then had to call them out and say “You mean you weren’t hard for over 30 years regardless of the situation?” A couple then had to admit I was right. I said I’d always been in pretty good shape and I understood how professional athletes got into so many sexual encounters with a body pumped up and ready to go all the time. There are plenty guys that either were weird and out of shape their entire life or simply can’t admit what mother nature does to men. It’s not that infrequent with women either.

          The point being, other cultures acknowledge this. It’s just the Puritanism that permeated its way into some religions and regions that can’t come to terms with plain old sexual urges.

          Wish you could have seen my deceased SIL when she found out(this is late in life)she was born 5 months after her parents were married. Well, she never was very smart and to think that made any difference in how her life or others turned out is ludicrous.

  15. I’m nowhere near ready to even think about kids, though already determined not to have retard seats once they’re past toddlers and working on the excuses when the AGW’s notice them

    Gonna make them go-kart and getting 90s fwd tuners like civics and golf’s so they can really learn to drive.

    Not gonna raise no kid wrong and gonna make sure they actually live their teenage years right (no red sticker, I’d just remove that shit)

    Now to just find the most live free die hard state out there

  16. Millennial here. I think many of my generation, especially in rural communities like I lived in as an older teenager, still had that freedom as a teenager. But I didn’t really.

    My family wasn’t well off and I didn’t have means to even pay for the drivers education classes. This means I didn’t get any drivers license until I was 19 and already in my second year of college, which I attended while living at home. All wise financial decisions those. I never had my own car until left home at age 22.

    I love driving now and have just gotten my first motorcycle, as well as riding bicycles when it suits me. But I’m still kind of stunted from my lack of freedom as a teenager. I was home schooled, so largely spared the hell that is government schools, but without a car in a rural community isn’t really a way to live. I never got out with friends, never dated, and I still don’t really do those things even though I have the means now. I got the drive for those things squashed out of me by being carless.

    Funny thing is my younger siblings got driving and being independent a lot younger than I did. Good for them. Most of them have families now. I do have the highest income but what’s that worth when you’re lonely and struggling to fledge a decade after you should have?

    • Well, that may be true that you missed out on some of those teenage adventures in your high school years. And yes, those memories are nice to have. However, you are in a better situation to have, what I might call, “adult fun”. Meaning you have means now by which you can do things on your own time, at your own pace, whatever you want. Primarily, I think it would be in the areas of travel and adventures. I’ll throw out things like, learn to scuba dive, then go to the Caribbean. And when you do, don’t just swim around. Go on an “expedition” type to spearfish, collect relics, etc.! You can create those memories now, b/c you are situated as such. Have fun.

    • I’ll never forget the first time my grandfather had me drive. He had a grin from ear to ear as I eased out the gate with a load of cattle and approached the mudhole from hell. I knew I needed to shift down but didn’t know how while he was saying “double-clutch it”. I was panicking and he was laughing. I’ll never forget it.

    • I get where you are, I grew up in NYC and was pretty sheltered by my parents as well, I didn’t get my drivers’ license until I graduated from college. But I made the best of my life, and you can too. If you want to date, start asking women out. Maybe you are socially awkward but it’s not going to get any better if you don’t do it, it will just get harder as you get older.

      My advice for meeting people is to treat them as fellow human beings. The most important thing is not how someone looks or how much money they make, but will they make you happy and can you make them happy? And you find that out by getting to know the real person.

      As far as adventure – I concur, try different things that might excite your passion. Maybe it’s scuba, maybe it’s flying, maybe it’s skiing… or maybe you really do like to be more of a home-body. Nothing wrong with that either! But don’t let your past constrain you.

  17. I don’t know if this is a deliberate effort to cut off teens from cars. The reason given for restricting drivers’ licenses to teens is that many of them got into horrific, fatal accidents when they got a license @ 16 or 17, as was the case in NJ. I know personally of an instance in which this happened.

    When my mother died a few years ago, there was another funeral being held at the same time at the funeral parlor. It was for teens who fatally injured in a local car crash. The crash was so horrific that the teens’ caskets were CLOSED. The story I heard was that a teen got his parents’ Caddy, took a few friends, went driving at high speed, and got into a wreck that caused a fire. Burnt corpses would certainly justify a closed casket funeral.

    In recent years, there have been quite a few similar instances, so there was a public outcry to do something. That something was to restrict teens’ driving privileges until they reach a certain age. Most of us lived to tell about our episodes of being young and foolish. Not everyone was so fortunate. Anyway, here we are…

    • Hi Mark,

      Certainly – that’s the justification. If it saves even one life…. But the common denominator is hysteria and over-reaction. My high school senior class had 600-plus kids. One got killed in a wreck. Probably not that far out of the odds of 1 out of 600 adults getting killed in a wreck.

      And while any death is tragic, stifling life is far more so. We all die, eventually – and risk is part of life. Learning to deal with it is a big part of life. Making risk-avoidance the focus of life is to neuter life. Where does it stop?

      I ride motorcycles – more risk than driving in a car. But I regard it as a risk worth taking.

      Ditto thick cut bacon… etc.

      Puritanism and being obsessed with saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety strikes me as a bad way to go through life.

      • Eric,

        I agree with you. I was only telling how we GOT here; I wasn’t defending it or saying I like it. I think when your number’s up, it’s up; you’re dying and that’s the end of it. If God wants you home by a certain date and time, He’s more than capable of seeing to it that it happens-no matter WHAT you do. The only question is HOW, not when or if we’ll die.

        Like you, I ride. In fact, I was out today. It was a nice day, so I took my Burgman 400 out to go to lunch, then hit some yard sales in hopes of adding to my slide rule collection. Though I know it’s a risk to ride, I only do it when I and my machine are both 100%. I believe the best crash protection is crash PREVENTION.

        Yeah, I would have HATED growing up in the age of child safety seats-ugghh! I’m old enough to remember when we could sit in dad’s lap to help steer, or-gasp-ride in the back of a pickup! Now, that would be a felony for the parent or guardian…

        • When I was in HS 35 odd years ago, a BUNCH of HS kids ended up deceased in wrecks. Many drinking related. One young fellow asked me out on a date. I was young and shy and said, no thanks. So the next day he asked my friend in Math class out. They went to a beer hall and ended up wrecking coming home, on a country highway. Both deceased. At the funeral, I was asked to read the scripture. It was odd, knowing it “could” have been me!
          Agreed, We DO need alot better training. Higher requirements. Practice on a track even?

          • It’s a lot different in rural areas. A decade or so ago, a friend(young one) was driving a tractor and implement along the US highway with his 8 year old in the pickup with flashers on following.

            A new DPS, young guy, pulled the farmer over and gave him the what for….letting the child drive a big pickup. Well, it’s either he drive the pickup or the tractor the guy said. It’s always been this way, just a young city boy DPS is ignorant of it. They had a very heated argument and it ended sorta badly as there was a challenge to the DPS to stop said driving.

            This same thing happens again, this time the kid is driving the tractor. Now, when I say tractor, I don’t mean your grandpa’s. Tractors and implements now have to be huge, at least a 30,000 lb tractor and an implement folded up thrice that’s 15 feet wide….or more. I haven’t seen a 2 wheel drive tractor since I looked out the door at my old 68 4020. That time the DPS just went on by. Seems like there’s no illegal age to operate a tractor. Of course, it was a much more dangerous situation. Tractors often do 35mph these days and that’s not easy to stop or turn quickly.

            Who says govt. is the answer to anything…..except carnage and poverty.

      • Or we have the tight-assed, no fun town depicted in “Footloose”, where Kevin Bacon couldn’t “cut a rug” thanks to some back story tragedy that took the lives of a car full of teenagers. So instead the preacher’s daughter acts like the town slut, and the cops give the “hero” some shit over speeding…driving a VOLKSWAGEN.

        I agree completely, Eric. Yes, life has its risk…that’s why we have BRAINS…to assess these risks intelligently. The greatest risk of all…is…MEDIOCRITY.

    • I think it is part of a deliberate program. Now is it deliberate in that this control freak safety cult nonsense helps another part of an overall social engineering agenda? That could be an accident. But it is very deliberate social engineering to do what is being done.

      You mention the outcry to “do something” that is punish everyone for what a couple kids did. That’s a conditioning that comes right out of the government schools. Again a deliberate thing. So even if the limitations aren’t deliberately done to make people into perpetual children it is a consequence of what people are conditioned to as children.

      It’s a question are the details pushed or did the big things get done and the details then are simply a matter of consequence? Left to occur on their own.

    • “Do something!” Well, how about real, honest to goodness driver training and education? Not the dumbed down 4th grade reading level driver’s manual, the real deal? Put kids in a simulator for a few weeks with classroom training. The sim is the easy part, there are plenty of video games with all the software in place, just add a real dashboard/cockpit and maybe some hydraulically actuated motion. Then send ’em out to the track for some real physics demonstrations. Put ’em on a skid track with bald tires. Simulate things like a total engine failure at speed. Have the brakes go out. Get the kids to understand what can happen so they’ll understand why they have to pay attention, and won’t do stupid things.

      Oh, but that costs money and might not get the outcome expected. So it’s ever more airbags, more steel reenforcement and more automation.

      • I am dating a guy from Germany. They REALLY have driver’s ed over there. And it works.

        Once upon a time kids in farm country could get a license at 14, I think. They drove their families’ tractor when they were younger.

        Once upon a time people actually were adults by the time they were 18, sometimes much younger. There is no reason a 16 year old can’t step up and take on responsibility.

        If our education system focused more on actually teaching kids useful skills rather than helping them “get woke”…

        • I got my DL at 14, just like everyone else did back then. Hell, we were driving Jeeps and plowing before then and driving pickups too.

          Dumbing down is a societal change for letting women have too much power. In THIS country, they should have never gotten the right to vote since they obviously came up with shit legislation like “Prohibition”.

          Of course it’s unfair to put this all on all women. Texas women weren’t that way and you didn’t try to plead being young to get out of work and responsibility. This crap came from the NE Puritans….the very reason the defeat of secession was such a defeat for everyone in this country.

          You won’t see this now but in my day, girls had to make a hand too and they drove tractors and helped round up cattle. If only Texas could have remained a republic it would at least be different from now. When I was going to school, in the fall in harvest time, school started before 7 am and let out early because everyone was needed for harvest. I had my own little cotton harvesting sack when I was 5 that somebody made for me. I won’t say I got a lot harvested but it taught me a great deal about being in the field and needing everybody to harvest. It was literally, a whole ‘nother world then.

        • Now, people spend half of their lives acquiring “education” and essentially remain as children into middle-age.

          By contrast, ther Amish are already men at 16- getting married and starting famblies; and establishing their own households and farms, where they actually produce things of value, instead of sitting in an air-conditioned office collecting a check for some meaningless busywork, at taxpayer expense.

    • you are puking out govt propaganda. what about all the tens of thousands of kids that OD and die cause of govt policies or kids that die in a war

      • Tens of thousands(whew!) of kids that OD and die of govt policies(OD on what…..govt. policies?). I get the part about dying in a war. It’s the neocon way. Bolton has as many deferments as I have cats but now he can’t imagine a war he doesn’t like and kids are the stupid, expendable resource.

        Maybe you’d like to explain that entire paragraph since it seems you’re mixing and matching and generally using a blender to make a point I don’t get.

      • SPQ, it seems you only use uppercase letters and punctuation in a willy-nilly sorta fashion. Out of everything you wrote there’s one period and no uppercase letters. What gives?(see, I had a question mark at the end of my sentence) Are you rushed for time?

      • I believe the point SPQR70AD is trying to make is the policies of the FDA and AMA. Forcing vaccines on the tykes, in essence, killing them through making them highly autistic. Thousands and thousands of the latest generation will never live a full life, but will require constant supervision and help to survive.
        This, and the panoply of drugs and food additives approved by the Gov. These questionably helpful substances, when metabolized have detrimental affects to the human psyche, immune system and/or proper biological function. Can anyone say bio-engineering?

    • Yes, the insurance “mafia”, as Eric would put it, is to blame for discouraging youthful drivers. Hell, if they had their way, it’d be worse than renting a car,, where, without a co-signer, no matter how much dough you’ve got, your ass is not renting a car if you’re under 25 (I think with Enterprise it’s 30 now)

      Another result of increasing risk adversity AND corporate control of our daily lives.

  18. The younger gens,,, especially the Millennials, do everything they can to be ‘different’ from the boomer generation whom they believe are the cause of everything wrong. And they are correct on a lot of things.

    As you have written before they have been strapped in cars since they were infants and forced to ride facing backwards. Not a lot of fun there! When strapped in they were handed a Ithingy to play games while being held prisoner, maybe for hours. Some have died in the heat of the car. This was their only fun and is why they still cling to them today. Schools made them pay to park and would demand searches from time to time. If one aspirin is found you are in trouble Mister.

    Kids in my day had shotguns on a rack in the trucks rear window. Today that would be a felony. Having one aspirin in your vehicle or on your person,,, felony! Even playing cowboys and Indians, making pretend guns with your hand results in immediate eviction from school escorted by an armed thug of the State and it’s on your record for life. A 6 year old was evicted from school for giving a girl a peck on the cheek accused of being a sexual predator and escorted to jail by an armed thug of the State.

    While drugs are proclaimed bad for you and of course illegal,,, the drugs they force most boys and some girls to take to ‘calm’ them are perfectly fine. Ritalin, their fav has serious side affects and you wouldn’t want them driving while high due to Uncles required drugging. Drop a pencil on the floor,,, you are put in a waste basket for an hour… My son received that special treatment.

    By the time they reach High School any yearning for freedom has been violently ripped from them. They’re little ro-bots doing as their told already in debt and resigned to being corporate slaves, if they’re lucky.

    Not much fun there…..

    • Millennials aren’t our kids, Stormer Fan. They are our grandkids.

      And it was the Worst Generation that passed all the nation-destroying legislation in the 60s when we were just children.

      • Hi Bob,

        Each generation has been affected to some extent by the warped culture we’re all immersed in. My generation – Gen X – was the cohort that grew up with what is regarded today as “negligent” parenting because we were largely on our own, even as little kids. Many of my cohort over-reacted to this when they had kids – and became their kids’ “friends” rather than parents – and helicoptered them everywhere.

        I hold out some hope for Gen Z – which seems to be learning the lessons not learned by the Millennials…

  19. Age 17 back in 1985 was a special time. I got a taste of independence with my drivers license. My first car was a green 1974 Olds Omega with a 250 cid inline 6 and a three on a tree. A Kraco cassette stereo and a few gallons of bondo in the body panels since it was a former Pennsylvania car. My only worries then was liability insurance and gas money. My worries today dwarfs those worries back then. Oh …. to relive that time in my life. I had it made then and was too short sited to realize it. Oh well, back to reality. Back to never ending work, bills, taxes,vet bills and more taxes.

    • Ditto, Allen!

      We’re about the same age – and experienced similar things. My experience took place behind the wheel of my trusty and very rusty ’78 Camaro, T-tops leaking, CB radio jamming… good times!

      • eric, I found out “work” triumphed every “law” my mother laid down. My dad was a chilly guy and long as I didn’t end up in jail he was fine, and probably would have been if I’d ended up in jail.

        I wasn’t allowed to drive the car but had carte blanche with the 55 Chevy pickup. After all, what could happen? A great deal in my mother’s exaggerated view of thinks but work trumps all.

        If I wanted to go back out late at night I’d get somebody to call the house, explain I had a hog, calf, horse…etc. out and running around. I’d never answer the phone myself allowing the news to be vetted to me. Well, time to go, no telling when I’ll find “it” or where. Then I’d tear off, spinner ball on the steering wheel in hand so I had that Porsche-like handling…..really fast steering….and was blown away the first time I drove a ‘Vette.

        Sometimes that one head morphed into the whole damn pen. I could always find some shit to step in and leave my boots outside, maybe get a little of this and that on my pants too so my mother would be reminded when she washed.

        Everybody seemed to think the full-size mattress that fit perfectly in the bed was something you do when camping and I did a lot of camping. Throw some clear plastic over that livestock rack and gaze at the stars while lying on the mattress. It worked well at the drive-in movie too. Don’t know who bent that gearshift on the old granny 4 speed but it went into 4th gear about 2″ off the seat one leg over from my hip, a pretty handy place if you’d have asked me.

    • Pieces of plywood anchoring the back bolts of the front seats in a thoroughly rusty 64 Studebaker. Water coming in thru the kick panel till a friend riveted a piece of bent metal in there for me. That car had a special ignition switch. I could start it up on a cold day, take out the key, and go inside till the car warmed up. Coming back from the Brickyard with 3 friends from high school, all of us thoroughly drunk. I provided the car, they provided the booze. A copper followed us for 1.5 miles on the way home before turning off. We settled down real quick when we saw that copper.

      • I recall buying #2 and step-daughter (they’re the same age) a well-worn ’94 Saturn for a few measly buck so they’d have a ride to get to school in their senior year in HS. The day after I bought it, the ignition lock cylinder broke, but thankfully unlocked. Seeing that to get it out of there, after it defied several hacksaw blades, would require a W87 Thermonuclear warhead, I pulled out the ignition switch, which had a pawl slot in it, and improved a stubby common screwdriver, which became known as the “Stanley” key!

        It was a complete POS, but that car ran for FIVE years with very little extra $$ put in. The most I did was a water pump which cost all of $25 and an afternoon of listening to the Giants find another way to lose. As the engine, though it had plenty of power and decent compression, also had blown valve seals, so it went through a quart of oil every two weeks, I only changed the oil filter every six months…saving the used oil from the rest of the Self family fleet, regardless of viscosity!

  20. Good article. I did so much bad behavior in cars its a bit frightening. Hell just yesterday I smoked this subaru guy with my 1986 supercharged mustang lx 5.0. He had no idea what he was challenging.

    Many great road trips. 14 hours to the Florida keys. 12 hours to Maryland. Probably 10 hours to Alabama where I met a really nice girl. Days gone by.

    • Growing up in Central Florida, when school let out at a quarter to three, if we didn’t have work or football practice, we’d head out to the beach, which was 45 miles away down the “Bee Line” to Cape Canaveral…which took less time to get from Orlando to Cocoa Beach that it did to get across the Intracoastal Waterway and to the beach. Or, if there was something going on at New Smyrna Beach, we’d be surfing NLT 4 pm. And I don’t recall too many problems with all that.

      Nowadays the cops and the helicopter parents would void their bowels.


Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here