The Veal Pen… aka What Clover Believes

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A reader submitted the following in response to an article I wrote deriding “for profit” law enforcement: clover lead

“Clover (for newbies, the term is inside baseball; it refers to a persistent troll who is also an authoritarian control freak … in other words, the the typical American today) could likely come up with the idea that his safety is ‘protected’ by these ticket pitchers.”

Yes, indeed. This is exactly Clover’s argument, though he articulates it much less coherently.

Clover regards hypotheticals as actuals. He uses generalities to justify absolutes applied to individuals, irrespective of specific facts in a given situation. And absent any evidence of harm caused.

Thus – as an example – it is justified (in Clover’s mind) to treat every single driver who happens to be traveling down a given road as a presumptive “drunk driver” – because one of them might be a drunk driver.

As Clover sees it, his putative “safety” justifies pre-emptive aggressive violence against any and every potential “threat” – no matter how generalized, no matter how abstract and non-specific. Even if Clover is never actually harmed.

The asserted possibility that he might be harmed is sufficient.

This is the core of his position – and the basis of the American matrix today.

It is the reason for random checkpoints – on the road and elsewhere (soon, everywhere).

It is the reason for random – and blanket/universal – filching (and caching) of our private correspondence, electronically and otherwise.clover lead

It is the reason for the seizure of “excessive” cash discovered in our possession.

“Someone” might be a “drug dealer.”

Or, a terrorist.

Therefore, everyone must be presumed a terrorist … until otherwise demonstrated.

It is why Americans have accepted – even cheered – the government’s brazen admission that its agents torture people – including people not known to have done anything (but who might have or could have).

Can’t be “too safe”…

It is why Americans now accept – welcome – being “locked down” in their own homes and places of business and being frog-marched out of them, hands up and rifles pointed at their chests.

Whatever’s necessary to catch an offender. Even if it means treating everyone as an offender.veal pen

Since hypotheticals will always exist, there will never be an end to these tyrannies – which (to Clover and his kind) are not tyrannies at all because they make him feel “safe” … in the same way that a veal calf is “safe” in his pen.

The Libertarian position, of course, is the opposite of Clover’s: Each individual is entitled by right to be left in peace, free to make decisions for himself, and to be held accountable as an individual.

If he causes a harm, then he – and he alone – is accountable. His actions may not be used as the basis for holding others accountable.

Thus, if Jones loses control of his car (whether he’s sober or drunk being immaterial, the relevant fact being he lost control of his car) and causes damage to someone else’s car, Jones is responsible. Hold him accountable. Fully and completely. No leavening of the costs onto “society” – that is, onto the backs of other people who had nothing to do with it.collectivism pic

Do not trample Smith’s rights by forcing him to prove he’s not “impaired” at random checkpoints.

Do not pass laws requiring Smith to purchase costly insurance which is costly because of the leavening of liability costs incurred by others such as Jones.

If Smith has not done anything to “terrorize” others, do not terrorize him.

So long as Smith hasn’t done anything to warrant a defensive response, leave him in peace. “Warrant it” meaning – some specific/tangible act of aggression that resulted in a specific harm to a specific actual person. Most laws on the books posit the state as the aggrieved party – but this is like claiming one has offended Santa Claus. The state is as much a figment of our imagination as Santa. It has no reality. There are only individual people. And each individual has an exactly equal right to be left alone by other people unless he’s caused harm to other people.veal 2

Clover reacts to the above much the same as Dracula recoils from garlic. He cannot abide the idea of waiting until someone actually causes harm before holding them responsible for it. He demands people be held accountable for things they have not actually done yet – and may never do!

Which means, there is no end to it – though this thought apparently never occurs to him.

He feels “safe” in his veal pen.

Until, of course, the day comes when the farmer is hungry for some veal.

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  1. Thats scary,but in the pen it was easy to pick out the “me firsters”there were some pretty good people in there(I believe these Guys didnt belong there{the good ones that is}but this incarceration crazy society,ruined a lot of good people in the pen This pen garbage really didnt take off in the US till the late 190th century and clover hasnt looked back-but on the other hand some of these humanoids belong there-Kevin

  2. Heard this on the radio this am. Have not seen it mentioned elsewhere, and it was Faux News (I like the traffic reports on that station), so it may not be true.
    Judge in CON-necticut ruled that a 17 yr. old girl with non-Hodgkins lymphoma did NOT have the right to refuse chemo, even though her mother supported her decision.
    As one caller pointed out, she can get any type of birth control she wants, even the morning after pill, or an abortion, without her mother’s knowledge, let alone consent. But she can’t decide she does not want poison in her body (her words).
    Situation might (?) be different if her mother did not agree with her. Of if she WANTED the chemo, but her mother did not agree. But this, like so much else in the world today, is nutso!

    • That ruling is entirely consistent with the goals of the state and those who control it.

      Government benefits from abortion and government (and its friends in the medical cartel) benefit from chemo. Ispo-fatso as Archie Bunker would say, the government rules that a minor may choose abortion but may not choose to opt out of chemo. Consistent, logical, and predictable.

  3. Hero in the Iowa Veal Pen aiming at a murderous family pet, kills a woman instead

    A woman in Burlington, Iowa, was reportedly shot and killed by a hero outside of her home right in front of her four-year-old son.

    34-year-old Autumn Steele was arrested Monday night for domestic abuse. After being released from jail, Steele was told she could not return to her home without a law enforcer hero to escort her.

    When she returned to her home to retrieve her things, she got into a dispute with her husband Gabriel as he was loading their four-year-old son into the car.

    The taxfeeder hero who escorted Steele to her home tried to break up the altercation, and while he was attempting to intervene, the family’s dog approached.

    The hero felt threatened by the dog and pulled out his gun to shoot it. As he fired shots at the dog, one of them hit the 34-year-old mother in the chest.

    “The dog startled the hero. The hero began shooting at the dog. The hero was still shooting when he fell down in the snow,” an eyewitness told The Hawk Eye.

    It is not clear at this point if the dog followed through on the perceived attack on the hero, seizing on the opportunity that after the hero had fallen in the snow.

  4. I spent about 25 years of my life drunk or very close to it. I doubt there was a day in that 25 years that I drove while “sober”. Now of course a clover would say I didn’t belong on the road and should not have been allowed to have a license let alone a car.

    The thing was, I knew when I was too bombed to get behind the wheel. The arbitrary BAC is nothing more than bullshit. It has nothing to do with making roads safer and everything to do with feeding the taxeaters. Not once was I ever in an accident. Not once did I cause any property damage. MANY times I stopped and helped out fellow motorists even though I knew that there was a chance that this would get me in trouble with the law.

    The most dangerous thing that ever happened to me was defending myself from assault via Pig. This came very close to costing me my life and it did cost me tens of thousands of dollars to keep myself from going to prison for LIFE. Clovers of course would think that I deserved all of this because I chose to drink and drive. Forget that I had committed no crime, forget that I was assaulted and nearly killed. Forget that I spend months behind bars waiting for trial for defending my own life (found not guilty but of course not Innocent, you can’t prove that). None of that matters to the typical clover. Their atrophied grey matter simply cannot get it that I had hurt nobody and that I was the victim. I might have had the potential to harm therefore I was wrong and should have taken my kidnapping and assault with a smile on my face.

    Just how fucking stupid do you have be to honestly believe that a person who has harmed nobody and damaged nothing deserves this kind of treatment?

    • Hi Brad,

      Clover’s both unintelligent and malicious. The suffering visited on others – who are just cardboard cutouts to him – does not matter, so long as Clover gets what he wants. This thread is common to all of Clover’s posts; it defines Clovers.

      The irony – lost on them – is that they present themselves as the great benefactors of humanity. They believe in “safety” and just want to “help.” But notice how indifferent (how willfully evasive) they are regarding the violence they visit on innocent others. Their narcissistic sense of “greater good” – defined, of course, according to their notions of “common sense” (see Clover’s post today). Absolutely no regard for the individual. Just posturing about “society” – a pose that enables them to pretend they are representing the mass of humanity when in fact they are representing themselves at the expense of others.

      My “conversations” with Clover have led me to an awful conclusion. We cannot coexist. They – he and his kind – are beyond the reach of reason and will never leave us alone so long as they have the power/ability to impose themselves on us.

      We have two options: Defend ourselves. Or get away – beyond their reach – somehow…

      • Right on, Eric. They are really a bunch of brainwashed cult freaks and that is why there is absolutely no convincing them of anything. Once in a while one of them may have an epiphany but logic alone will never reach them. If they get smashed by the hand of the state then possibly they will learn but even then it’s not likely. Cults are incredibly powerful and the cult of the State is the most powerful and all invasive force on Earth.

      • I miss my Dad. I don’t know how many times I heard him say, “When someone’s mind is made up, it’s hard to confuse them with facts.”

  5. “If he causes a harm, then he – and he alone – is accountable. His actions may not be used as the basis for holding others accountable.Clover

    Thus, if Jones loses control of his car (whether he’s sober or drunk being immaterial, the relevant fact being he lost control of his car) and causes damage to someone else’s car, Jones is responsible. Hold him accountable. Fully and completely. No leavening of the costs onto “society” – that is, onto the backs of other people who had nothing to do with it.”

    All well and good, but suppose Jones can’t pay as of course he can scoff by without insurance in your world? Or just refuses to pay, but of course insists on continuing to drive? Suppose Jones kills someone or maims them for life?

    Do we get to take every thing he has & toss his woman & kids out in the snow? If that doesn’t cover the bills-Can he be enslaved for his debts? Or butchered and his organs sold? Or maybe the SECOND or THIRD time he drives drunk & kills/maims we can just shoot him in the head?

    • Mike,

      The issue here is transferring responsibility (by force) onto others who did nothing/bear no responsibility for what was done.

      This is what Clovers demand – and which I argue is profoundly unjust.

      If “Smith” runs a light and hits you, totals your car and has no ability to pay that sucks for you. But it does not impose an obligation on me to carry insurance. Nor to “help” pay for medical costs and so on. The only party responsible is “Smith.” Period. Burden him; garnish his wages; sell off his stuff; have him “work it off.” Whatever it takes. But leave me (and others) out of it!

      As regards your comment:

      “Do we get to take every thing he has & toss his woman & kids out in the snow? ”

      No, Mike “we” don’t get to take anything. But the damaged party is entitled to compensation from the individual responsible (and no one else) commensurate with the harm/damage done.

      Do you see the difference?

      • The thing is (and I know Eric knows it, but I have to say it) that the deadbeat who didn’t buy insurance back in the day still doesn’t buy it with mandatory insurance laws. The cloverian laws don’t change anything for the irresponsible people they claim to be aiming for, all it does is allow the government to grab better hold over the responsible people that were never a problem in the first place. Instead we end up carrying uninsured motorist coverage even though it is mandatory that everyone has it.

        • That’s right BrentP, I’ve probably paid about 10K in rego and insurance since 18 and never needed it – ever. What a waste. Eric’s likely paid oodles more.

          I haven’t paid rego and stuff in some years now and will never do it again. Registering anything transfers superior ownership, so it’s really no longer yours, but they still hold you responsible for everything while you’re playing their game.

          Let’s face it, clover’s can whine about insurance and “what ifs” all day, but in the end, you can’t possibly insure everything against everything.

          It’s what dyed-in-the-wool clovers always knee-jerk toward: “There ought to be a law..”. More often than not, they’re the very hypocrites we need to insure ourselves against.

      • eric, I can answer that. He can understand that but doesn’t wish to. Maybe he’s got an insurance agency or just can’t stand the thought of being responsible HIMSELF. Gee, if they can hold Smith responsible, they could as likely hold MIW responsible for what he does and he’s just not that kind of guy, he doesn’t MEAN to hurt anyone, just a great guy, hard-working on not working.

        This reminds me of an article in the NYP from this clover named Danielle Lynn that wrote it. Seems like 9 of NY’s finest(can’t help it, just have to laugh every time I hear that)walked into Chiptle’s and an employee(Stupid SOB if you ask me)did the hands up protest thing started in Mayberry, uh Ferguson. They were offended dang it and demanded an apology. This twit Danielle wrote the article as biased as she could but the truth still gets through anyway. You can smell it without even seeing those “finests”.

        I have some advice for the guy who did the protest sign though, pack your stuff up and see if you can slide off to Arizona or Ms. or anywhere you don’t have to be on camera every day.

        That reminds me. Xmas day the B&C and I were traveling and stopped at a convenience store. While waiting for her slow butt, I noticed a sign that said “Smile, You’re on video so everything you do is being recorded.” Gotta remember that place. I know I’m recorded every time I go into a store, most stores anyway, but this place goes out of it’s way to offend people not breaking a law. Pissed me off. I had to wrap two beers in a jacket and leave the damn place before we could open them. Remember, every damned road sign(those huge ones by the roadside we got screwed into paying for) we saw for two days said Buzzed Driving is Drunk Driving and Drive Sober or Get Pulled Over. Must be why so many people were buying beer at Slovacek’s West on I-35. I saw lots of cops, mainly Texas’ not so fine but not nearly as porky as NYC’s, working it hard, mainly pulling over big rigs. Hey, those drivers are unarmed.

      • What I see Eric is that you live in a Fantasy World and you have finally divulged enough of how your world would actually work to dismiss your version of NAP out of hand.Clover

        I will be DAMNED if me and mine will be put at risk to accomodate you.

        • You can’t reason with the brainwashed. Somehow this clown has bought the “we” line peddled everywhere. We is attractive because it means “you” don’t have to be responsible for anything you do. Why would someone want to live in that snugly, protective veal pen?

          Why does mike think our liberty is a threat to him and his family (love how he slid that “we” in there, like he’s doing all he can to protect the brood) personally? Who told him that lie? Liberty is dangerous, you actually have to live like you are, shudder, responsible for your own actions. Yikes!

          I guess I do know, mass media pounds the safety and shared responsibility meme minute by minute, it’s hard to tune out that sirens call if you are looking to shift your burden onto others.

          • Hi Tom,

            I think that’s it in a nutshell.

            What Southerners refer to as the “yankee” mindset is another form of shorthand for it. HL Mencken referred to such people as “uplifters.”

            They seem to have a visceral aversion to individualism, which may reflect their own view of themselves as individuals. It’s a form of projection. They assume that because – absent “the law” – they’d run amok, hurt people, behave in general like a narcissistic sociopath – that everyone else is like that, too. Therefore, everyone must be presumed such – and punished not for what they’ve actually done as individuals, but for what someone might (in the corporate/collective “we” sense).

            • I often call people on the ‘everyone one will run amok if there were no violent enforcement of the law’ by asking them if they would murder their neighbors to take their stuff. I ask them if they would take my stuff or murder me. They do not address this point.

              Now maybe they will and refuse to admit it or my guess is that deep down they know they won’t, they know their neighbors won’t, and thus their argument of chaos is crap.

            • Eric – I think you’ve nailed it. I’ve had spirited discussions about gun control with rabidly anti-gun “liberals” over the years and two things usually came across: one was their lack of self control, the second was their dishonesty. A civilized discussion quickly turned into a heated argument if I refuted their “facts” with accurate statistics and real-life examples of legitimate gun use. They’ll often get downright nasty, resort to ad hominem and name calling and lose their temper when I challenged them with facts, figures and logic.

              So this leads me to believe that people like this know they will lose their temper when someone disagrees with what amounts to their “religious convictions” (because they can’t be swayed with facts and logic). Since they can’t control themselves and obviously would like to shut the opposition up by force (but don’t want to suffer the consequences) it stands to reason they wouldn’t want a lethal weapon immediately at hand or they might use it. So by extension you shouldn’t have one either because in their distorted worldview you are just like them. It is a common human failing (and big mistake) to judge others based on what’s in one’s own heart.

              • Boothe – I know it bugs me more for some reason to see someone else mirroring my own faults rather than exhibiting different ones of their own. But expecting someone else to act/react like you know you would is “normal” human behavior.

                • Philip the Bruce – Expecting someone else to act/react like you would can be very expensive and even fatal. There are a lot of folks walking around (around 1 in 20) that have no conscience, moral compass of any kind nor even a smidgeon of human compassion. They know they’re different, but they do everything they can to hide it from those of us who are “normal” by appearing on the surface to act like us. Imagine if you had the capacity to literally cut a competitor’s throat, hide the body, go home to dinner with the family and sleep soundly that night without a hint of remorse. It would give you a serious advantage over the rest of us, would it not?

                  Now imagine what kind of jobs you’d seek that might allow you to do it with impunity: cop, politician, soldier, corporate exec, doctor, government bureaucrat, etc. This is why I strongly suspect that there are a higher percentage of psychopaths in these professions than you have out in the populace at large. It pretty well explains these classes usually getting away with things we, the mere mundanes, would be jailed for: Congress-critters’ insider trading, cops beating, tasing and shooting folks with no fear of reprisal, IRS / state revenue bureaucrats stealing folks property with a mere suspicion of “tax evasion” and no pretense of due process, the revelations about the Army’s “Kill Game” and other war crimes overseas, ad nauseam. I always hope for the best, but in my limited life experience, when dealing with other folks it’s always wise and safer to be prepared for the worst.

                  • Boothe – never said it was a good idea, just not uncommon.
                    Re: the “criminal classes” that tend toward the jobs that allow them to ‘get away with murder,’ remember, shit often floats.

            • eric, Texans call them yankees in polite company for those visiting. When they decide they like the friendly people, low taxes and wide open spaces and move here, we call them “damn yankees”. Once again. FEAFEFH’s.

              • And if they move there, then keep whining about how much better things were ‘back home,’ then they are G– damn Yankees, verdad?

  6. Read this Clover letter in a local rag….

    Guy was proposing a new law:

    When any police officer pulls a vehicle over for any reason, the driver and passengers of said vehicle shall roll down all windows on the side the police officer is approaching and turn on all interior lights and place their hands on the steering wheel or out of the drivers window, fingers open, to show the officer no threat is coming from the driver / passengers……omitted various caveats for bad weather, etc….
    Anyone can see the wisdom of this bill. The safety of our police officer is of utmost concern. Think about it. There is no good reason why a driver will not cooperate and do this……

    I actually laughed out loud.

    • Clearly written by an appliance driving clover who never ventures out late at night or ever gets pulled over as he speeds (like most everyone else) everywhere. How can I say this? Anyone who has been pulled over late at night at o’dark thirty knows the cops use their spot light to blind the driver. There is often no way to see which side the cop will approach on. furthermore reaching for the window switches before the cop arrives is asking for more trouble.

      Of course such a law will make a lot more violations to write up or they may be considered felonies to jail people. Also more damn’d if you do, damn’d if you don’t situations.

    • Dear Damon,

      The guy’s obviously yet another idiot clover oblivious to the “law of unintended consequences.”

      Home invaders, rapists, and carjackers are already impersonating LEOs in order to catch their victims off guard.

      In Florida, Criminals Pose as Police More Frequently and for More Violent Ends
      By DON VAN NATTA Jr.
      Published: May 28, 2011

      Of course, this headline is unwittingly ironic. “Criminals pose as police?” LOL.

  7. Your comment about how a clover must treat everyone as a threat because someone might be a threat seems like how modern police treat “officer safety”. Officer safety to any threat real or imagined, however slight, seems to trump all other considerations. Now that “diversity” has done away with physical requirements, I suspect the small-fry officers and the female officers probably feel threatened all the time.

    • Hi Robert,

      The two are related, certainly! Or perhaps – aspects of the same phenomenon would be better.

      The “safety” cult encompasses many things, but its common denominator is less freedom for us – and more control for them.

      • I think a lot has to do with the ascendancy of the feminine in our society: often called the Feminine Imperative. Woman are naturally more conscious of safety, risk, etc. At the same time they have less capability of assessing risks. Therefore all risk must be eliminated from all human activity.

        • Well said, Robert What?
          One of the reasons that women should never have been granted suffrage.
          Of course I don’t believe in suffrage for anyone, it is merely a means to determine what majority has the ‘right’ to tyrannize the remainder (minority).

  8. Mental Retardation + Democracy = Death

    What was Not Sure’s ultimate crime? Sounding like a Fag.
    Logic and Reason sounds “Faggy” to little brat Clover. The mentally retarded Democracy parasites and their political terrorists will make Logic and Reason a crime and call it “Belligerent” at first…Then “Faggy” as all of society becomes retarded.

    Want to know what Merrica will be like in 15 years? Visit Haiti or Venezuela.

    • “Democracy” also depends on depravity – or at least, moral obtuseness. Depravity, in the form of normalizing plunder; moral obtuseness being the willful incapacity to acknowledge one’s participation in such.

      • The Democracy Chimps will always vote to live at the expense of everyone else. Most people on Earth are still mostly amoral tribal mammal and not fully human.
        Democracy just creates parasitic tribal hell on earth ending in death.

  9. Collectivism is for Chimpanzees. Clover is a Chimpazee.

    Tor Libertarian is brilliant and yet I doubt anyone under the age of 30 can even begin to comprehend. The childish twits of the 70s and 80s were foolish but they were not retarded like the 90s and 00s public school fuktard parasites…These are Clinton’s gimme-gimme imbeciles. Just think what Merrika is going to be like in 15 years when Clinton’s retarded-brat/Liberal parasites are “running” things. Hint: watch the movie Idiocracy.

    Make plans to leave Merrika whilst you still can.

    • Hi Arian,

      The subject of expatriation has come up here many times before – but none of us have been able to come with a place that’s appreciably better.

      Have you got any ideas?

      • eric, I just learned some old friends are considering Ecuador. I’m guessing they haven’t been there yet. Some countries such as Venezuela have some large European communities that date back to WW11 in the mountains, probably fairly protected from the rest of the country and with established trade routes(ocean). I’m not sure it’s a money-saver though, as many other places are not. If the object is to get away from the predatory US gummint and find out you have a much worse gummint with intent and means to fleece you, I see no advantage, in fact, I see a real disadvantage.

        Staying with Mexicans I’m always amazed how they and they alone can determine what “I” pay for something. If I married one(fat chance, not enough imagination…..and I’m still married here although that wouldn’t matter there)I could basically live as cheaply as they do. With friends there yourself, you’re probably aware of the discrepancies. To be honest, I detest going even to the south side of San Antonio and anywhere south of there now is simply Texas turned Mexico. You get treated as an interloper from there south, not quite the way it was 40 years ago. Even in the early 70’s, there was a huge disconnect between North San Antonio and the south side. I have several friends who live in that part of the state and they are all rethinking what they thought was a great place 40 years ago. Most are still slightly N of SA but they feel the vast ideological difference simply driving into town. If San Antonio was ever a “nice” place, those days are way gone. It’s a nice place to get killed by street crime now and white’s are caught between an Hispanic govt. there and the street crime and Hispanic police and one of the most corrupt “just us” systems in the country.

        The S side of SA makes the S side of Chicago look like the better alternative. Either place it’s kill YT.

        • The south side of chicago is more fearsome to people who’ve never lived there than it is those who have. The real dangerous parts, the CHA housing projects along the dan ryan were torn down years ago. The people dispersed to other places many outside the city. There are white neighborhoods throughout the southside. Most of the historic danger skin color wise has been black people wandering into places like bridgeport. The only equal in reverse was the housing projects. If you’re not a gang member and can’t be confused with one there isn’t a lot of danger other than wrong place and wrong time. Many a neighborhood that a white person probably shouldn’t wander too deep into and even then the biggest threat would be cops (and others) thinking he was there to buy illegal drugs.

  10. The Veal Pen. Young Ollie emerges from, and returns to, his lair.

    Where is young Ollie today I wonder, now three years hence. Where will he end up as an adult. Will he move out on his own and become one of the veal in his pen as decreed by the state?

    Or will he rise in the ranks of authority, to become one of the “butchers of veal in their pens, rather than one of the cattle?” Or, instead, is something else entirely possible for the Ollies of this world? Something we can each help to create and then offer as an alternative to the state? Of the world we now inhabit of the Veal and the Crate?

    The Origins of War in Child Abuse

    My transcription of “The Sunset of the State.” – by S. Molyneux.

    Once the earth was thought to be the center of the universe. With the planets and stars and the sun revolving around it. As observations improved, though, weird complications began to mess up this model, particularly the orbit of Mars. As the earth goes around the sun, Mars sometimes appears to move backwards as we overtake it.

    In a vain attempt to solve this problem, horrendously complicated circles within circles were created, tangling up the mathematics in an increasing kaleidoscope of endless overcomplexity. A few brave thinkers – and brave they had to be in those days – tried putting the sun at the center of the solar system.

    Ahh, then everything fell into place at once.

    The crazy mess of the Ptolemaic system of circles within circles and equations piled upon equations evaporated in a moment. Only a few equations were now needed for perfect accuracy.

    The same simplicity and clarity and accuracy was revealed when navigators accepted that the world was round rather than flat and when physicists accepted the Einsteinian argument that the speed of light is constant.

    Systems based on fundamental falsehoods always get more and more complicated as endless corrections and adjustments pile on in order to make them look more right.
    Every few generations, these accumulated errors become so ridiculously complex that the entire system becomes unsustainable and kind of embarrassing.

    Even the non-expert grasps that something must be fundamentally wrong with the whole mess, and a few brave souls take out a blank sheet of paper, push aside all their prior preconceptions, and start from scratch based on reason and evidence rather than the accumultated errors of history.

    The central tenet of all systems of human morality is the non-aggression principle. We all learn it as children: don’t hit, don’t push, don’t hurt, don’t steal. We learn that violence and bullying and treates are wrong, immoral, and only make whatever problem you’re trying to solve worse.

    That’s the rule we’re taught when we’re kids, and it’s a good rule: solid, logical, empirical. But then, when we get older, if we have th courage to see, we understand that this is not how adult society is run at all. In adult society, you have to pay a bunch of men and women your money or they call on other men and women in blue costumes to come and take it, and if you try to defend yourself from this theft, they will shoot you.

    This is the reality of societies with governments. Your society. In statist societies, free exchanges between free adults that some people don’t like can get you shot.

    If you get a job and try to avoid paying for a non-existent Ponzi “retirement” plan, you can be kidnapped and shot if you resist. If you break any of the hundred of thousands of made-up rules about trade and barter, you get arrested.

    If you don’t want to fund foreign dictators, you get arrested. If you don’t want to pay for an evil war, you get arrested. And on And on and on and on And on and on and on and on.

    When we were kids, our teachers said “don’t use violence”, but if, as adults, we don’t pay a government teacher’s salary, we get arrested.

    As we grow up, the more we look around, the more we see that every “law” is a gun, and guns are everywhere in the adult world, and that using violence to get what you want is the foundation of the society we live in. So, which is it? Is violence good or bad?

    Our statist system has become so ridiculously complicated because it has, like the earth-centered model of the solar system, a fundamental error right down at the root of it. This error is the belief that violence is the best way to solve complex social problems; the delusion that if you point enough guns at enough people, run up enough debt using the unborn as your collateral, kidnap and enslave enough free souls, that the world will just get better and better and better. How’s that working out for us?

    The tax code, aggressions against free trade and personal consumption, the endless multipying laws governing every aspect of our waking lives, these are like the circles within circles of the earth-centered model of the solar system. The only end to that increasing complexity is collapse.

    When you recognize that increasing complications reveal core errors at the root of a false system, you will see that the non-aggression principle needs to move to the center of our virtues, of our morals, of our society as a whole. Like the sun itself, it needs to be fixed at the center of everything we do.

    The non-aggression principle can not orbit a primitive, violent hierarchy that we actually inherited from apes and cavemen.

    Think of it: a society without organized violence, without the threat of state coercion, without institutional kidnapping and theft and imprisonment, without taxation, and the thieving predation of state fiat currency – counterfeiting. Does that make you dizzy? It should.

    When the sun was moved to the center of the solar system, where it actually is, it was disorienting to everyone at the time, just as the time and space relativity of Einsteinian physics was disorienting, just as evolution is disorienting to many, and quantum physics messes with the head of anyone who really grasps it. In the face of ancient falsehoods, the truth is often dizzying and confusing and alien and freaky.

    When we place the non-aggression principle where it should be, at the center of morality and society, beliefs we have held for tens of thousands of years suddenly evaporate. The ancient error of the morally-justified state crumbles into its component atoms of evil. The dizzying and multiplying complexity of law upon law, gun upon gun, murder upon murder, all this ugly mess is revealed as hysterical attempts to cover up the core crime of justified, institutional violence.

    The myth of the social contract is revealed as a gun to the necks of the unborn. Laws are exposed as well-armed prejudices. Taxation is revealed as theft, lobbying as bribery, arrest as kidnapping, governments and armies as the most successful criminal gangs, and schools as violence-fueld indoctrination camps for helpless and dependent children.

    It is disorienting, it is confusing, it is frightening, it is dizzying, and it is true. The sunlight of reason and morality and truth is essential: it must be at the center of everything we do because, in society, just as in the world, the sun is either going up or it is going down, perhaps to a night without another sunrise.

    Whether the dim light of our modern world is a sunset or a sunrise, that is up to you.

  11. Notice the political terrorists – thru their News Media – are trying to get their public school retards to “think” that lower oil prices do damage to the economy. Does Clover believe this as well?

      • eric, over the holidays I was thanked by an old friend for being front and center in the energy war. He said what I was doing was saving them. I said it was mainly saving me and I thanked him for his exorbitant taxes that fund this war, er, uh, oil production. He was quite aware that was the long and short of it but it’s better than fighting foreign countries for their oil and the good thing, it does put the middle eastern countries in a bind, what they must prefer or they’d do away with their radical religious causes and attempt to better their lives. I realize 99.99999% of them are slaves like the rest of the world but if they want to get somewhere other than digging in the sand for grubs, they need to rise up against ALL the groups who reign hell over them. The royal Saud family is right at the top and of course, will do everything at face value to mollify the US while doing everything they can behind the scenes to kill every one of us.

        I understand to a great extent why TPTB are intent on reducing the population of Earth to millions of people instead of billions but aren’t they the same group that’s made their unimaginable fortunes from people like us to see that countries like India can produce more and more bodies every generation for little more than the selling of wheat, etc. ?

        If I could be convinced that every human on earth is about to be a victim to over-population and had the power to do away with 90% of them, would I do it? Does that 90% include me and everyone I know? It’s not a situation I can really conceive of but evidently it’s one TPTB can.

  12. So is Amory Lovins the anti christ?He definitly has a nutty side,but He isnt completely wrong(maybe 10% right?).Nuclear power as we have to use it now,could be one hell of a lot better,for instance we could use breeder reactors and maybe start switching to the safer designs and start using thorium reactors,if the stinking nuclear waste is so hot,lets just use it to boil water and make more electricity and for petes sake stop treating extremely low level waste as the doomsday plague. For instance if Cherynoble is off limits for ever,lets use it for a nuclear repository,I’ve never seen the logic of the way so called cleanups are done on petroleum spills for instance,we cant bury asphalt,but we can continually lay down fresh blacktop.Reason has to assert itself eventually,the powers that be control our energy supplies and energy is what makes life a lot more pleasent/
    When I was a young Guy we had to carry water and used firewood for cooking and heating,there was A 60 amp service coming into the house(we used 45 amps-3 circuts) we were practically off the grid,when bad weather knocked the powerlines down it was business as usual for us,light a lantern and go about you business,but as I got older,we finally got running water and wired the house for a 200 amp service and naturally it was one heck of a lot more convenient,it was an upgrade in the quality of life,so any of the wackos that want to tell me I cant have electricity I want to them”go pound sand” generation needs to be a never ceasing process and we might use a more sustainable mix,but for the time being we are going to have to use a little bit of everything we have.But what is to often overlooked is the vulnerbility of the grid to natural and manmade disasters,thankfully VA is one of the few states that has stated addressing this issue,but as for me,right now I cannot afford to go off the grid,so mr generator,keep up the good work,We probaly have a bright well lit future,if the hypocrited will stand aside-Kevin

    • My biggest objection to nuclear generation in the here and now is that is entirely under the control of gunvermin, including design. Even France is recycling spent fuel rods, which the USDOE forbids.
      As for Chernobyl, it is healing, albeit gradually, and need not be off limits forever. Besides which, the whole Amerikan concept of Zero-Tolerance is a bizarro world idea. Many things that are harmful or fatal at high doses and actually beneficial at low rates.
      Hopefully we will be able to have safe, private nuclear generation available by the time we REALLY run out of oil.

  13. I think another important factor that is often overlooked by the libertarian community is responsibility for others. Instead of directly helping out our fellow man we’ve allowed ourselves to believe that “only government” can help the poor. At one time there were people who provided low-income families and individuals with housing they could afford. But because it offended the eye of the progressive, they were deemed evil and put out of business (the smart ones, of course, sold their tenements to Uncle for new football stadiums and other public works and retired to Boca Raton).

    Likewise, instead of running interference when our friend or customer has had too much Christmas cheer, we figure we’ll just placate ourselves with “he’s a grown-up and knows what’s what,” instead of pulling him aside and taking his keys, letting him sober up, or calling a cab for him. So once again, Uncle steps in with a solution. None of us like the solution, but since we don’t know that we’re supposed to take care of each other, we let Uncle’s solution become the way to deal with it.

  14. “Science,a body of organized knowledge,with methods of modifying and adding to the body of knowledge”.
    People I respect and consider highly intelligent,swallow the pablum and poppycock,espoused by the hypocritical econuts,dont get me wrong,I respect Amory Lovins,but without His money and prestige,I seriously doubt He would have went as far as He has.Now,I have little toleration for Algorean nonsense while we can deplete and screwup the biosphere,we also have the means to undo a lot of the harm and it does employ some people who otherwise wouldnt have a job-What boils my blood is the weenies and sheep bleating about the evils of productivity,If these(for the most part)pampered individuals had to live even like the Americans lived during the Colonial days,you would see a mass revolt.
    I guess what I’m trying to say is,Clover is clueless ,as Rand maintained,the motivated individual(if unbridaled)can be a fantastic instrument for progress and prosperity.There is no group of Men that can completely and successfully ,openly rule and oppress the masses for a long time.
    When we forget Madison Avenue and start feeding the intellectual and spiritual parts of Man,then freedom,will come ever closer,the glorious ideal,for which the Freeman,should aspireKevin

    • Hi KM!

      It’s interesting they’ve had to change the verbiage…. again. I’m old enough to remember when the earth was (supposedly) about to freeze over. This morphed into “global warming” … but that got to be awkward given the all-too-obvious cooling that was occurring… and so it’s now “climate change,” which encompasses pretty much anything that might happen.

      How convenient… as the Church Lady might style it!

      The greatest imbecility is the presumption that climate is static. It requires an audience of true dopes to swallow that one – and government schools have done a fantastic job of supplying them!

    • I started reading about the Rocky Mountain Institute and had to stop in the second sentence.

      I saw the term “greenhouse gas.” I refuse to go any further when I see such nonsense terms.

      Other no go words: carcinogen, climate change, peak oil. It’s ridiculous. Just call things by their traditional names, not use button pushing code speak to inflame the fears and irrationalities held by blathering morons.

    • Mr Lovins’ opinion that we can just gain efficiency to make renewables work fails miserably when it comes to the real world. Yes, we can change out lightbulbs and save energy, but when you have very efficient processes for smelting aluminum and recycling steel already how does one make them more efficient? Can factory owners afford to shut down production when the wind isn’t blowing? Can factory workers afford to be furloughed for long periods of time when there’s not enough sunshine to run the factory? Will they be able to afford to heat their homes when natural gas is being used to run electrical plants? Is the government prepared to subsidize factories that have access to reliable power (such as nuclear) to not produce, much the same way they pay farmers to not grow crops? Are consumers willing to pay a 2X premium for produced goods in order to maintain less productive factories? What about 10X? Note that the pro-renewable (unreliable) crowd loves to talk about how many houses an installation will serve (while ignoring the capacity factor, the actual amount of time the generator is making electricity. -imagine the difference between a vehicle designed for a drag race vs one designed for Le Mans. But that’s another story), but they never mention how many factories, data centers or even cell towers will be powered by them. Once you do the math you realize we’ve been sold a bill of goods that will end up screwing all of us in the end.

      And beyond the 1st world, try telling the guy in Rio de Janerio that his light bulb, that he paid a day’s wage for, is inefficient and therefore must be eliminated and replaced with a bulb that costs him a week’s wage. Or that newly middle-class Brazilian that he can’t have air conditioning for his family because it is too wasteful.

      I encourage you to read the link below, and some of the other posts from Mr Adam’s wonderful site. When you realize just how screwed we already are, you’ll realize the idea of abundant energy is abhorrent to many of the world’s “elites” and the end game is to make it so expensive as to drive the middle class into poverty, and eventually an early death.

      • Yeah, they probably villainize James Watts for making the steam engine practical.
        And while I admit that a significant amount of ‘ecological damage’ was done in creating hydroelectric plants (not to mention the social damage of eminent domain used to obtain the necessary land), do these nuts REALLY think that destroying those already existing is a good idea, that it will improve things?
        The Industrial Revolution, and economic prosperity created by it and the specialization of labor, depended in part on relatively ‘cheap’ power, and has resulted in loss of control by TPTB.

      • “…the idea of abundant energy is abhorrent to many of the world’s “elites” and the end game is to make it so expensive as to drive the middle class into poverty, and eventually an early death.”

        pretty much – could interchange “energy” with several other terms – but yup.

        • I paid $1.83 for gas last week. A friend just outright thanked me for being one of those who bring this stuff out of the ground so old folks like us don’t have to beg for sticks to stay warm. The current price of crude isn’t worth the costs of bringing it out of the ground so I’m guessing this really is a war we’re all paying for in that new CRomnibus bill as well as other things. I wish everybody could see the patch from my view. It all shines like a diamond in a goat’s ass. Perfect sites for everything. Perfect paint for all new equipment and facilities…..mind boggling.

  15. Clover sure is a good german, only not today’s productive and free german. Rather, the inhumanly good germans of hitler’s germany, always at the ready to aid the central bankers eviscerate and loot their society’s wealth and sovereignty.
    – –

    First paragraph two words are duped – the and could. “in other words, the the typical American today) could could likely come up with the idea”

    In the middle of the article aside picture of cattle it says “a veal calf is “safe” is his pen.” The second is should be in.

    • Eugenics and Other Evils by G. K. Chesterton


      The only place where it is possible to find an echo of the mind of the English masses is either in conversation or in comic songs. The latter are obviously the more dubious; but they are the only things recorded and quotable that come anywhere near it.

      We talk about the popular Press; but in truth there is no popular Press. It may be a good thing; but, anyhow, most readers would be mildly surprised if a newspaper leading article were written in the language of a navvy.

      Sometimes the Press is interested in things in which the democracy is also genuinely interested; such as horse-racing. Sometimes the Press is about as popular as the Press Gang.

      We talk of Labour leaders in Parliament; but they would be highly unparliamentary if they talked like labourers. The Bolshevists, I believe, profess to promote something that they call “proletarian art,” which only shows that the word Bolshevism can sometimes be abbreviated into bosh.

      That sort of Bolshevist is not a proletarian, but rather the very thing he accuses everybody else of being. The Bolshevist is above all a bourgeois; a Jewish intellectual of the town. And the real case against industrial intellectualism could hardly be put better than in this very comparison.

      There has never been such a thing as proletarian art; but there has emphatically been such a thing as peasant art. And the only literature which even reminds us of the real tone and talk of the English working classes is to be found in the comic song of the English music-hall.

      I first heard one of them on my voyage to America, in the midst of the sea within sight of the New World, with the Statue of Liberty beginning to loom up on the horizon. From the lips of a young Scotch engineer, of all people in the world, I heard for the first time these immortal words from a London music-hall song:—

      “Father’s got the sack from the water-works
      For smoking of his old cherry-briar;
      Father’s got the sack from the water-works
      ‘Cos he might set the water-works on fire.”

      As I told my friends in America, I think it no part of a patriot to boast; and boasting itself is certainly not a thing to boast of. I doubt the persuasive power of English as exemplified in Kipling, and one can easily force it on foreigners too much, even as exemplified in Dickens.

      I am no Imperialist, and only on rare and proper occasions a Jingo. But when I hear those words about Father and the water-works, when I hear under far-off foreign skies anything so gloriously English as that, then indeed (I said to them), then indeed:—

      “I thank the goodness and the grace
      That on my birth have smiled,
      And made me, as you see me here,
      A little English child.”

      But that noble stanza about the water-works has other elements of nobility besides nationality. It provides a compact and almost perfect summary of the whole social problem in industrial countries like England and America. If I wished to set forth systematically the elements of the ethical and economic problem in Pittsburgh or Sheffield, I could not do better than take these few words as a text, and divide them up like the heads of a sermon.

  16. Although common law in common law countries is superior to statute law in all cases, Magistrate’s courts ignore it and abide by statute law for very good reason – statute law has around 6 million codes written by the wet dreams of politicians, whereby they paint you into a corner to ensure you can get caught breaking at least a dozen of these laws before you even get to work and, dream up more every day.

    It makes oodles of money. Everyone with a birth certificate has been “REG-istered” (Reg = Crown, Regis = King, Regina = Queen), meaning that superior ownership of your name has been transferred to another party – grabbermint.

    They can never own your body unless authorised under contract or consent, which is where the next layer of deceit comes in.

    Your name, in every permutation, is commercialised and owned by grabbermint, and has now become what we-in-the-know call your “strawman”. If you front court and answer to your name, not only is this considered “personation” under statute law, but you’ve closed the link and accept whatever statute law does to YOU, the Man or Woman, now deemed to be taking the charge as a “person”. They hide the personation bit to ensure their scam goes unnoticed.

    After all, what is a “charge”? A request for payment of services rendered! I’m not kidding.

    The court now fines you, and using your consent that YOU are your name, securitises your name with the grabbermint, collecting the fine, and then charges you the fine AGAIN – and will chase you down until they retrieve your hard-earned money. This is how they convert labour into cash for themselves, instead of having to lend it from the World Bank, like they do for everything. The Reserve Bank is a front.

    The U.S. and Australia are common law countries. If a cop asks your name, tell him that you’re not refusing but you can’t use it because doing so would be personation and, under common law you don’t have to unless under arrest and that you’re not consenting to anything they demand. If they have no probable cause to arrest you but do so anyway, then it’s kidnapping and even worse because a weapon’s involved – theirs.

    This is also what you tell the court. The magistrate calls your name, you say “I’m here for that matter”. The magistrate will likely try to rope you in and ask if you’re “Mr. Name”.

    “Mr.” is a title you were given by THEM, another catch.

    “Your Honour, my name is [first name]”. “[first name, last name] is in the court today” and I’m that person’s personal representative Then hand them your birth certificate and say: “Under criminal code act (personation), a person who falsely represents himself is liable to 3 years imprisonment.”

    Repeat if necessary and the case should be dismissed.

    Always keep yourself disconnected from your name (strawman) by stating that you’re the “person’s personal representative”.

    This is precisely what clover doesn’t fathom. He’s simply a pawn for the machine that cares only to protect him so they can use his name as a security to enrich themselves and so that he can double it by paying his taxes. His securitised name will likely even vote for democrats many years after he’s dead, as has been discovered in at least Obummer’s elections.

    Forgive him oh lord, for he knows jack shit about how he’s being used. If he refuses to learn, he deserves everything he gets.

    More info – start here:

  17. Well it appears that the US is headed the way of the Roman Empire(only quicker) I do recommend Pat Buchanans”The Unnecessary War” it really shows what a snafu that politics and rhetoric can bring about,just imagine what or where the world could be right now if people could just relate to each other,the last unnecessary wars(starting with the American”uncivil war”) are a case in point,dogooders,proto-clovers and mean bastards can sure muck up the works.Anybody that doesnt check out on regular basis should

  18. The Goddard Space Flight Center (GSFC) is a NASA space research lab established in 1959 as NASA’s first space flight center. GSFC employs approximately 10,000 civil servants and contractors, and is located in Greenbelt, Maryland.

    GSFC is the largest combined organization of scientists and engineers in the United States
    dedicated to increasing knowledge of the Earth, the Solar System, and the Universe.

    GSFC manages the Hubble Space Telescope (HST), the Explorer program, the Discovery Program, the Earth Observing System (EOS), INTEGRAL, MAVEN, OSIRIS-REx, the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO), the Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO), the Rossi X-ray Timing Explorer (RXTE) and Swift.

    Past missions managed by GSFC include the Compton Gamma Ray Observatory, SMM, COBE, IUE, and ROSAT. Typically, unmanned earth observation missions and observatories in Earth orbit are managed by GSFC, while unmanned planetary missions are managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, California.

    Goddard Space Flight Center formerly contributed to Project Mercury, America’s first manned space flight program.

  19. The thing about clover, when compared against the heimat whole, is he’s probably somewhere in the 70th percentile maybe. At least as far as his writing skills.

    The younger generations coming up are all varieties of stupid. In ten years, clover will likely be 85th percentile or so.

    It’s horrifying to contemplate. What’s it going to be like, when “Not Sure” is the smartest man in Uhmerricka? We’re about to find out.

    I mean this article by Holli Riebeek out of Goddard in MD. It’s stupefyingly enstupidating. Just look at the references to her “article” if it can even be called that.

    References for letters A-D
    1 Drier summers cancel out the CO2 uptake enhancement induced by warmer springs.
    2 Carbon cycle: Checking the thermostat.
    3 Climate-driven trends in contemporary ocean productivity.
    4 The long-term carbon cycle, fossil fuels and atmospheric composition.
    5 Forests and climate change: Forcings, feedbacks, and the climate benefit of forests.
    6 Earth Science: The Physical Setting
    7 Couplings Between Changes in the Climate System and Biogeochemistry.
    8 Contribution of Working Group I to the Fourth Assessment Report of the
    9 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
    10 The dangers of ocean acidification.

    Safety clovers. Religious clovers. Science clovers. Everythings groovy don’t be a negative nelly clovers. It’s everywhere. No appetite for empiricism at all. Just straight up jawboning about beliefs. No getting to the bottom of anything. Finding out the truth of anything. Not even talk of how we might learn something or confirm something to be true.

    Just an idiocratic dialectic. In science: its climate change pants pissers on one side. And conscript every science fte for 24/7 warmongering on the other side. It is really going to suck a lot harder all to soon.

    Holli A Riebeek. EPO COORDINATOR 301.614.5753

    Mail Code: 610.9
    Greenbelt , MD 20771

    Twitters of a science cloveress

  20. They allow us to keep part of what we earn,as a reward,they build more prisons and hire more bureaucrats-to ostensibly,keep us safe.When I faced the mighty corpus of the Commonwealth,even the force and Gallantry of the community could not keep me from its slavering jaws-Kevin

      • We do have to think for ourselves.

        The Mises Institute–while not perfect, since perfect doesn’t exist on this earth at least–fits the bill as a good source of info for me. Lew is another good source, along with EPAuto’s. Eric and many of the posters, including yourself, Tor, aren’t doing to shabby at putting good “info” out there.

        • and;
 – These 2 sites scientifically bunk all of the Gorebull Warbling garbage and are a good regular read.

 – Has shown for years how NASA GISS, NOAA and other grabbermint departments “massage” the temperature data to ensure the globe looks like it’s warming.

          Although these are my frequented sites, there are many more available listed in their sidebars.

          • Very good stuff. A distillation From Steve Goddard:

            Grossly exaggerated threats and scares by a cabal using erroneous models and predictions to brainwash and uninform.

            Isn’t that what science is now. A clerisy class spewing falsehoods.

            Can we do science, or do we need a lab coat costume and a certified lab to legitimize us?

            How little of my own writing is now done in this detached and experimental mindset which is crucial to advancing knowledge?

            The science cloverism goes back at least to the evolution debates kicked off by Charles Darwin’s published works.

            Real scientific inquiry is abandoned, and it becomes an intellectual scrum to see which scientish mafioso don wins the intellectual territory.

            There is still a lot of honest science to be done on the following. Not the allied derivative social movements we’ve come to accept as science. But the actual objective empirical repeatable verifiable science.

            Human Evolution
            Nuclear Winter, Global Warming
            Earth’s carrying capacity
            Human Eugenic Breeding and Potential
            Efficacy and toxicity of Tobacco, Opium, Marijuana, Coca leaves, and other natural substance science.
            Efficacy and of birth control, fetal development intervention and termination
            Resource replacement rate of the earth
            Genetically modification of organisms
            Cost/benefit of social controls/social freedoms
            Cost benefit of war/religion/criminal law/civil law
            Many many more topics we accept as settled, but should not do so

            There’s so much science to be done. But so few scientific minds with the needed temperament available to do it. Inquiry and entrepreneurship both seem to be trending towards extinction.


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