Nissan’s Nosedive … and Possibly Why

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Nissan’s in trouble. More trouble, maybe, than former (and frog-marched) CEO Carlos Ghosn.

Reuters reports a blanching 70 percent drop in operating profit last quarter due to plunging sales and unfavorable foreign exchange rates

Net income fell by more than half to 59 billion yen ($546.8 million) in the July-September period. According to the Reuters piece – and a public announcement by Nissan – revenue decreased 6.6 percent to 2.63 trillion yen ($24.4 billion) over the past three months and global retail volume declined 7.5 percent to 1.27 million vehicles.

Part of the problem is heavy discounting, which gives any brand that does it the aura of a K-Mart Blue Light Special. Nissan also has several very old models in its new vehicle lineup, including the 370Z sports car and the Frontier pickup. The full-size Titan (and Titan XD) also haven’t been doing well, despite a market that loves big trucks.

But there could be a subtext here as well – one that Reuters and the rest of the captive press aren’t reporting.

Nissan is the main “seller” of electric cars so far –  other than Tesla. Its Leaf has been on the market since 2011, almost ten years running – and hemorrhaging money with each “sale.”

And resale.

The Leaf has the worst depreciation record of any car – electric or not – since the Edsel. It is common for these things to be worth less than half their original/new-car MSRP of almost $30k after as little as four years on the road – which happens not so much because the car itself is a clunker but rather because its battery is so expensive.

The most unreported story of our times is the inevitable degradation of EV battery performance over a relatively short time – the result of discharging and charging the battery.

It works the same for a lithium-ion EV battery as it does for a AA rechargeable flashlight battery. But EV lithium ion batteries cost thousands of dollars to replace – the equivalent, in IC car terms, of putting a new engine in the car after as little as five or six years.

Not because the battery is dead, even – but because it is depleted.

Discharge/recharge cycling reduces the battery’s capacity over time; it accepts less charge and it discharges faster.

In an EV, this translates as less range.

And when your EV starts out with only 150 miles of range (the best-case range of the base-price, $30k Leaf) and you lose say 40 percent of that because of depleted battery capacity, you’re left with a car that now has a range of maybe 80 or 90 miles, best case.

And it will get steadily worse, like a slipping clutch – only one that needs to be replaced every 30,000 miles (in IC car terms) rather than once every 150,000 miles – and for five times the cost of a clutch job.

It also means more time – spent recharging.

That 40 percent reduction in range amounts to an equivalent amount of time watching the clock while you wait for your increasingly distance-crippled EV to recover whatever charge it can still hold. Given that an 80 or 90 mile best case range is marginal even for a daily there-and-back commute of 60 miles because it’s on the ragged edge of the car’s maximum and therefore its driver operates under the constant threat of not getting back from there  . . . well, the whole prospect is very unappealing.

This can be fixed, of course, by spending several thousand dollars for a new battery – but that’s a hard sell hard sell to most people shopping used cars – given they can buy a whole used car that doesn’t need a new engine and can take them 400 miles for the price of replacing the Leaf’s battery.

Which is why the Leaf – which is why electric cars, generally – depreciate faster than the Titanic took on water.

So this bidness with Nissan maybe going out of bidness could be a harbinger of Things to Come – and coming soon. Because it will be very soon that other car companies trot out their Leafs.

All of them beset by the same chromosomal defects that have rendered the Leaf (and Teslas) the Down Syndrome cars of our time. But we’re all supposed to pretend that these very special cars are – somehow – going to function in the real world and do just fine.

Which is as silly – and cruel, really – as expecting a person afflicted with Down Syndrome to succeed as a novelist or even a bank teller.

It’s going to be a fun ride!

. . .

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92 COMMENTS

  1. I don’t know if it would make any difference with Lithium batteries, but back in the day an old battery could be refreshed by putting it in a vibrating machine. You vibrate the hell out it for an hour or two, and then it will work for another couple of years.

      • eric, the 48 foot drop deck dove tail trailer I used to haul equipment on coupled with some lease roads in Midland county would do it fine. Been down some of them and 1st was the only gear the driver could stand much less the truck. Seems like something broke every load…..even the shocks on the trailer. You’d need a couple straps or chains to just keep it on the trailer. You could do it with just about any truck on those roads but I’d want the battery to be right on the rear of the trailer, as far away from me as possible with a good headwind or sidewind blowing……easily done there too.

    • That might lead to the end of the battery. LiPO and other lithium technologies will explode when the materials touch. Vibrating them would probably cause this to happen much more quickly than not.

  2. Glad to see them nose dive. It serves any company right to crash after cheating the public. I hope all companies making electrics take notice and stock holders as well. Any car company contemplating going to electrics is one to short!

    • Hi John,

      I agree – we still have some power to effect change peacefully, as by withholding financial support for car companies that aggressively push EVs. I italicize that to emphasize the point that there is almost no real market demand for these things; they are creatures of mandates and subsidies…. .

  3. Nissan chairman Ghosan was proven a tax chiseler. Evidently both in Japan and France. Normally I wouldn’t count that against him if he was an ordinary Joe saving a few hundred bucks with an inflated deduction or something.

    But he made millions and was a very high profile CEO. How stupid can you be? Those folks normally have big name firms do their personal taxes. Many US corps require their C Level executives to do so. A near billionaire risking everything to save on some personal taxes? Eric explains above how stupid he actually is. Now he gets to contemplate his sins in one of those very un American Japanese prisons. Early to bed, early to rise, workey workey. Then on to France where at least the food should be better. No longer worried about his stock options though…

  4. I guess it just demonstrates the power of consumer preference over central controls or mandates. I was looking into purchasing a vehicle with good gas mileage this year and considered several options, but went with a 2018 Nissan Versa and so far it’s been a great car. It gets between 39-42 mpg in mixed city/highway driving, it’s lines of sight are good for a modern sedan, and it doesn’t have unwanted features like brake assist, lane keep assist, engine stop/start, or a giant LCD touchscreen with backup camera in the center console. Nor does it carry two propulsion systems or a heavy battery. Consequently it was quite affordable. I had no interest, however, in their Leaf or any of the other considerably more expensive hybrid vehicles despite rebates or the significantly reduced resale pricing.

  5. The only “electric vehicle” technology that works is slot cars. Until they put slots in the freeway full of juice, electrics are just a waste of capital. Ever wonder why the trains have those overhead wires and NOT batteries?

    • Your right. Not that hard either as most interstates have big power near them. Obviously, might not work in remote areas, but I’m not sure how much power needed would go X miles?. And they could start it small, just one lane on the interstate for those who want it.

      • But what would be the point, Chris? It still takes the same amount of energy to propel the vehicle- be that energy produced directly under the hood; by a remote generator and then stored in a battery; or delivered to the car externally as it travels. The most efficient way is still to produce the energy directly where it is being used- i.e. under the hood.

        The only reason externally-powered trains, powered by catenary wires or third-rails were implemented, was to prevent asphyxiation when coal-burning or diesel trains would go through long tunnels or underground.

  6. It’s fun to watch EV’s fall over the cliff. Not so much fun for a company worker who might lose their job. I don’t feel sorry for Nissan or GM or Tesla because these electric monstrosities are the result of “green” dogma resulting from the fake notion that people are causing global warming. It’s rather comical as record new lows are occurring around the world daily and it’s not even winter in many places. I expect it’s going to get colder over the next decade and that won’t be good for batteries either. The idiots and companies who are pushing this junk or buying into it never look beyond the moment. What are the long term consequences of the green movement? A dose of sanity and logic provides a prescient answer and it’s not good.

    • The utter idiocy of using electricity to power motor vehicles totally ignores the reality that all electric energy has to come from somewhere, either coal fired plants, hydro-electric plants, or (EEeeeeek!) nuclear reactors.

      As usual, there ain’t no free lunch.

        • LFTRs probably aren’t the panacea Mr Sorensen would like us all to believe they are, but it would be nice to see one built at scale to find out. The major issue is that the piping will become brittle and crack from the fuel. Yes, the molten salts should self-seal, but if there’s a constant need to monitor and replace bad sections of pipe it would greatly impact the operating costs.

          But there are lots of other designs that will never be tested at scale, mostly because of the hidebound DOE regulators, who won’t OK a reactor design without a test, but won’t allow a test reactor to be built because it’s an untested design. The AP-1000 design took decades to be approved in the US, and it’s extremely conservative design basically tweaked a few established designs from the late 1960s.

          • My uncle Lee Atwood was making safe reactors at North American Aviation in the 60’s – and we still don’t have them in our neighborhoods. He told me “the oil companies won’t let us sell them”

            • Hi Johnny,

              I watched a video a few months back (trying to find it) claiming that Thorium reactors were being studied and made at the same time as uranium reactors. He claimed that they were killed because there is little or no weapons potential in Thorium. he also claimed that Thorium is a much safer and much more efficient fuel. Because GovCo controls much of the scientific research done, Thorium research went unfunded. As is obvious to “us”, but still unbelievable to many, GovCo is far more interested in destruction than safe and clean energy.

              I’m suspicious of claims that industry killed it, why not fund it and profit from it instead? Tales of killing the red cars in LA, the “100mpg carburetor”, etc.. haven’t proven credible. What is more likely, GovCo favors an inferior energy technology over a better one because they want bombs, or industry destroys a technology with a huge profit potential?

              Cheers,
              Jeremy

              • Jeremy, there’s so much thorium it’s used as backfill at many mines. A marble sized piece of it would power everything you have and more for your entire life. I can see why big oil doesn’t want it to exist.

                • Hi Eight,

                  Don’t you still need expensive equipment to get energy out of it? I don’t know the answer to that, but even if people could make their own reactors, energy companies would collude with GovCo to make it illegal, thus creating a captured market, with enormous barriers to entry and a huge profit potential. Maybe oil companies wouldn’t want this, but even that seems dubious as what they care about is making money, not oil per se. And, even if the oil companies don’t choose to exploit the profit potential, why would other energy companies not choose to do so themselves?

                  I suspect that there is still much research to be done and technology to be created to make thorium power viable. This is likely the barrier, not the oil companies conspiring with other energy companies to keep it off the market. Also, besides GovCo shutting off research funding, maybe they don’t want cheap and abundant energy, which would make us harder to control and entirely undercut the looming environmental disaster nonsense they use to gain more power.

                  Of course private business does awful things, but usually in collusion with GovCo. But, I’ll put my money on GovCo as the primary culprit here (note, this is a suspicion, not a fact).

                  Cheers,
                  Jeremy

                  • Jeremy, I’ll put my money on any corporation already providing power, which in my book, is another way of saying Govco doesn’t want it.

                    I read an article recently that hinted, not hard facts, that the reactor would be affordable for most.

    • The “long-term consequence of the green movement” is death — to as much as 95% of humanity. Environmentalism is the ultimate death cult. If the “watermelons” (green on the outside, red on the inside) actually believed their own drivel, they would lead by example and kill themselves. Instead, they conspire to sacrifice everyone else on the altar of Gaia.

      Killing an enviro-Nazi should therefore be considered an act of self-defense.

  7. By all accounts Lexus is really good car. But they are the ugliest cars in my opinion. The guy who designed that grill should be shot for bad taste. Its enough I won’t buy one.
    Can anyone think of a another case in their lifetime where the good car was just too ugly to drive?

    • Hi Matt,

      Lexus used to be very conservatively styled – to the point of blandness. That changed about a decade ago and has gotten extreme; the Cylon Centurion “face” is way over-the-top and takes away from what is otherwise still a really good car.

      • “Cylon Centurion” haha. That’s perfect.
        It’s what has kept me from being interested in one. Agree on the car being great though. Looks aren’t very important to me, but they are to my customers when I drive up to a jobsite.

        • Everyone used to speak of the Aztek as being ugly. I really didn’t think it was and compared to the Cylon Centurion of new cars it was downright comely. I knew a couple people who had them and they said they were good cars. Probably not a lot of them were sold. The cars now have so many hard angles, divots and things you might think are the result of an accident I can’t really find one that’s “good looking” except the new Vette, which is like that really hot looking chick you see and then she passes by and her ass sends you packing.

        • Lexus to their credit is a solid and reliable brand, from Matt Farah’s Million mile Lexus to just being built to last.

          Where I’m from, there called Jewcedes for a reason, Jewish people love them. They figure you get the power, luxury and comfort of a Benz, but more reliable, more affordable and as some would joke, not made by Nazi’s (meanwhile remember Pearl Harbor)

          Quite frankly… Oh snap, just heard Roger Stone was found guilty on all 7 counts, wtf!
          #PardonRogerStone

          • Zane, you don’t think ol Roger was set up do you? He got friends(Trump)in low places where you cover your ass and catch traces…..He’s got friends, in low places.

      • Hey bobster, i love the 300, have one. It’s been my favorite vehicle in 25-30+. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
        But to be fair, I could also care less how it looks vs the 5.7L of RWD fun in a large relatively comfortable sedan for low 40K’ish. But I like it’s looks too, haha…………

        • How is the 300 reliability-wise? I have heard mixed reviews on them. I imagine that their suspensions are weak mainly because of the multi link design, but what about the transmissions? the 5 speed and the 8 speed?

  8. As long as the stage full of car-makers has the government standing behind the curtains pointing a gun at their backs, this is going to continue until we all die of attrition.

  9. Remember last year, my ex was looking for a new car, we looked at a Golf, A Rogue and a CX5

    Out of the 3, Rogue was the cheapest feeling. She would of gotten the Mazda, but the tuner in me talked her into the golf, which lasted her a year until.she bottomed out coming down a hill and busted the oil pan on a rock :/

    Still, competition is stiff, and Nissan’s lacklusterous.

  10. Their reliance on fleet sales aren’t helping them either. All those base models coming onto the used market at discounted prices means the value of a 2-3 year old Altima or Sentra is in the basement.

    They’re going to have to drop some models that aren’t profitable. Probably the Maxima (the Altima is almost it’s size, anyway). The 370 should have been retired years ago. The current GT-R is old, and I’m not sure they have the cash to refresh a high-dollar slow-seller like that.

    And I wouldn’t be surprised if the Infiniti division got the axe.

    • Hi Chip,

      The Maxima was once the Japanese BMW 3 Series – and better, in some ways. Today, it’s a more expensive Altima – and the Altima is a hobbled Maxima (no manual) that appeals to … I’m not sure who.

      • Agree, in my younger years, Maxima was a car to have. Not anymore.
        Nissan should really role the dice and rebadge a Q50 and/or Q70. Hell, might get me to look at a Nissan Q50-70. As it stands now, I love my 300, but if/when it goes away, I would absolutely consider a Q50-70, but the closest dealer is too far away. Those things matter to me now.

  11. So to clarify the point several posters have made…….even if Nissan didn’t sell electro-carts, their CVTs might have dragged the whole company into the mud all by themselves.

    And the aging Maxima was/is a very distasteful car. Absurdly huge turning circle, tiny slit windshields that you had to duck your head up to see the traffic lights. Oh yeah, CVT too. 🙂 The current Maxima is the best salesman for Camry and Accords…EVER!

  12. Just saw something called the Mustang Mach E…. WTF……

    Re your depreciation of 70% in 5 years… thats very generous. Theres something called a “renault Zoe” here…. depreciates 80% in 3 years!!! I think thats faster than my smartphone!!!

    • One thing that could work with these stupid electric cars is that you could retrofit them with IC engines for about the same price as the battery pack. Of course fitting in the other gear will be tricky

      • Yeah, and getting rid of those heavy battery packs would seriously up their MPGs, too!

        Another absurdity of our time: Pimping 4000 lb. cars as being “efficient” and “green”!

  13. Nissan had products the American public wanted back when they were DATSUN.

    Their lines was typically simple, reliable, and mostly inexpensive cars and small pickups, which GM, Ford at least tried (and though they sold well, failed miserably from an engineering standpoint), Mopar used captive imports from Europe and/or Japan (Mitsubishi), and AMC didn’t bother at all, figuring their six-banger powered Gremlins and Hornets would be all the “compact” the US car-buying public wanted (and in the mid-70s, they were right), and didn’t have the scratch to effect anyway until Renault bought them about and sold their “LeCar”, re-badged as the “Alliance” in the late 70s and early 80s. And they were zippy and FUN! I remember well the old B210 “Honey Bees”, a kind of vehicle that some 19 y.o. gal, in her first real job in the office, would drive, or the 510s, which ended up being some of the first “rice rockets”. And IF you had the means to get a 240Z, well…a poor man’s Vette, to be sure, but that thing was RELIABLE, looked nice, and, again, was FUN.

    Once in the mid-80s the brand was termed “Nissan”, IMO, the whole line became bland and stale, and Honda, Mazda, Subaru and Toyota just left them in the dust. There have been a FEW notable products, but most of what Nissan puts out today is very forgettable, I’m sad to say. How the once-mighty have indeed fallen.

    • So true, Doug!

      In the mid 90’s, I had picked up an 84 6cyl. DIESEL maxima for junk. Other than needing a paint-job, smelling like gunpowder, and a couple of minor things, it was by no means junk. All mechanical- injection pump and all. What a neat tank of a car! Sold it for $600 to some guy; wish I would have kept it- I’m sure I’d still have it today. Thing had plenty of power too, with the 6.

      Only one of it’s kind I’ve ever seen. I think it still had the Datsun badge on it too, IIRC.

      Then they started making all the rubber timing belt interference-engined weak-transmissioned lack-luster FWD crap……

  14. Another thing I have noticed is the rise in popularity again of Kia/Hyundai. They go on a 10 year cycle of garbage to trendy/affordable. They too are at the bottom of the affordability list with Nissan so they very well may be stealing their customers. I see more Kia Stingers on the road these days than 350z cars. The Telluride and Palisade are great small family cars as well.

  15. Ha! Looks like the car manufucturers, and even Steve Wozniak are finally starting to realize what I, with my 10th-grade edumacation, have been saying all along- that fully self-driving cars are not viable; and that fully-electric vehicles are not practical now nor in the near future…

    https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/apple-co-founder-gives-self-driving-cars

    Duh!

    So how many billions of both private capital and tax-payer money have been wasted on this nonsense? (And likely will continue to be, at least by Uncle, so they can milk it for all it’s worth, until the general public gets the news?- at which time, they’ll probably move on to some other pipe-dream.)

    At this point, these corps and gov’t agencies may as well be being run by 5 year-olds, or “aspiring rappers” from the ‘hood…….

    • Hi Nunz!

      It’s a mistake to think that the billions have been “wasted.” The goal is to destroy the car – as a mass-market/individually owned/controlled form of transportation. From that point of view, the billions have been very well-spent!

      • Very true, Eric!

        The thing is, these companies which have invested billions in the pipe dreams, have been foolish enough to do so, when, as you poiunt out, the ultimate goal was the destruction of their own market/product- and this is exactly what we are seeing, as many marques, like Volvo and Nissan and Hardly-Ableson will; likely never recover from these debacles, and will soon disappear.

        It’d be bad enough if this was solely a product of Uncle’s doing….but to see that so many of these companies are participating in the charade of their own volition, because they actually thought that such things were viable- physically and commercially.

        The duplicity of politicians- that is expected; but to see grown men- the supposedly edumacated captains of industry, but into the very thing which is the death of their companies, is just astounding.

        • Noooooooooo. Been saying for years: I’m convinced that the big boys are in bed with uncle, so they know what’s coming via regs. This is the only way they will survive because they are not ‘allowed’ to build what we want anymore.

        • ps: the only way autonomous cars will work in the near future (10 years) is with embedded ribbons in our roadways. the car must follow the line, and only accell or decel with camera’s. IMO

          • Not just that, but they’d have to put transponders on every traffic control device- from traffic lights, to signs, to road work signage, etc. And there’s still no way that they’d be able to deal with pedestrians; cyclists; motorcicles, etc. like humans can.

            You can have all the sensors and Al-Gore-Rhythms in the world; AI is still a joke compared to the brain of even a moderately intelligent animal.

            Look at text-to-sppech. Been around for decades now….and yet it still mispronounces 10% of the words in it’s native language, and chooses the wrong option when dealing with homophones, or acronyms vs. pronouncing the letters, etc.- usually the opposite of what the context and usage calls for. And we’re supposed to trust our lives and property to these computers, in far more crucial tasks under far more demanding circumstances?!

            As I’ve been saying from the git-go, this EV and autonomous car nonsense ranks right up there with “Living in colonies on the Moon by the year 2000” (Which were told, by teachers with straight faces, to actually expect, when I went to skool in the late 60’s and early 70’s)-The wet dreams of science-fiction nerds who aren’t very good at real life, and who know nothing of real cars.

    • I think there’s a very specific use case for autopiloted vehicles. But because it isn’t a door-to-door solution (and might never be), there’s no one willing to take on the risk for what would likely be a very limited and highly libelous business. Even small aircraft have had limited autopilot systems for years. They’ve actually made flight safer, more efficient and taken away a lot of the workload of flying an airplane (remember when there were flight engineers and navigators?).

      I have no doubt that a trained operator could safely drive an autopilot equipped vehicle. But that’s not what we have, at least in the US. We have hoards of Dunning-Krugered up “drivers” who think because they passed the lowest form of driver testing (30 years ago) they’re capable of operating a vehicle. It’s a testament to just how safe driving a modern vehicle is that there aren’t more accidents (personally I think modern tires and disc brakes have more to do with it than anything). When pilots are flying on autopilot they’re still maintaining situational awareness. They still revise and adapt as necessary. It’s just that they don’t have the fatigue of holding the stick in one position for miles and hours on end. If autopilots were introduced this way I’d be the first to sign up. And of course there’s specific language in the law that puts the onus on the pilot in command as having the final say in the aircraft.

      • I agree with this, RK –

        Just as I agree that EVs could fill a market niche (urban, short-distance/low-speed). But Uncle has created perverse (unnatural) incentives for both and the results are, predictably, hideous.

      • “When pilots are flying on autopilot they’re still maintaining situational awareness.”

        Well at least you HOPE so!

        Not like on that flight where the entire cockpit crew were so busy focking with a light bulb that they flew the plane into the Everglades 🙁

        • There is a pretty strong incentive to keep the nose pointed in the right direction when the sudden stop is 20,000 feet below you.

          • It was crazy wild where I live back when the B1B’s first started running. Their wing back thing didn’t work because the fuel pumps didn’t transfer fuel fast enough. I opened the door to find one nearly in the living room with us and they had it opened up and just skimming along trying to get some speed and gain a bit of altitude. Rock and Roll takes on a whole new meaning when it’s your house doing it.

      • Autopiloted vehicles: If they would add the slot car slot to the freeways little electric automated trucks could revolutionize trucking. Electric cable cars would work even better – as they can go anywhere a cable can be strung up. Through buildings, along train tracks, high lines, roadways – etc… But hey – we are too busy spending all our money on foreign wars and foreign aid – because – it is way easier for politicians to get kick backs for that shiznit.

  16. Problems with Nissan are: lowered reliability, cvts, watering down infiniti and bringing cvts to infiniti, ignoring their line up while increasing msrp every year. Like the 45k+ nissan 370z nismo. Not enough car for nearly 50k but great for 30k. The nissan gtr is 100k for the entry model.

  17. All of the above…Jatco CVT warranty comps, the inevitable reputation hit from same, the Leaf nonsense, AND the Takata airbag recall costs (Takata is bankrupt, so no blood coming out of that turnip) hit Nissan pretty hard.

  18. If Nissan were to dig out and dust off the prints for the 86-97 “Hardbody” truck, they would hit a homerun. They were immensely popular for a reason – perfect size, damn near indestructible, and had an entire aftermarket built around them. The Frontier just got too bloated for what it is, and the dealerships are just about trying to give them away. (When I was waiting for the “prep department” (formerly known as lot attendants) to get my Gladiator properly affixed with dealership ads, I was walking around the lot and salesmen came running every time I got within 15 feet of a Frontier or Titan).

    I have noticed in the last several years that the Armada SUV and the Titan are the vehicles of choice of the giant rims and EBT card crowd, since their resale has gone in the toilet. Then the “3000% APR Buy here, pay here” lots are almost nothing but Altimas and Maximas (usually with ridiculous “Reehms” attached as a selling point).

  19. Competition caught up and surpassed Nissan.

    Only interesting cars are older than my nephew (6yo), and you could buy lightly used for a good price.

    Ditch the cvt’s, drop the leaf on its head, build the IDX, relaunch the 300zx, do what others refuse to do and rebuild some race spec only classics (R34, Silvia’s, Classic Z’s, etc).

    Buy some competitor’s car to benchmark for the next gen and offer a g37 as a Nissan, auto and manual option included

    Just my two cents

    • As far as I’m concerned, Nissan/Datsun was at the top of its game with the original 510 and 240z. It’s pretty much been downhill from there.

  20. This demonstrates the beauty and immutability of the free market. No amount of tampering, subsidizing, hype or shaming can thwart the overwhelming force of natural law. Sure it can be hobbled, even seem to be altered but like water eventually it finds a way and flows.

    I have had electric golf carts for a decade. They need $1,200 in batteries every 3-5 years. My gas carts (Go Yamaha!) don’t have range ED. 6 gallons lasts 26 running hours. $15 of gas grants me another month+ of fun. That was all the lesson I needed to see clearly that the EV thing is crap and will fail under it’s own weight.

    • interesting about golf carts. i needed one for my trip to my barn a million times a day, so I went looking for one. The battery one’s were all toast and worthless to me. picked up an old yamaha gas and it has run and run and run with little input from me (10 yrs now). love it. maybe a good analogy of EV vs IC cause both in golf carts have been around a long time.

  21. Hey: Could also be their junk CVT transmissions across their entire car line. (2.5L is a decent engine). A Frontier with the 2.5L and 5sp manual would be a good setup. Even the Frontier with a real automatic transmission is good too. Their 4.0 V6 and 5.6 V8’s are good engines. I like the Titan, and might swoop in on a fire sale ala Oldsmobile, Saturn, Pontiac…

    • Good point, Tom –

      I dislike CVTs generally – because of their operating characteristics and also because they don’t offer an advantage – as far as I am concerned – to a traditional geared automatic (or manual). There is a slight MPG advantage – but it’s not worth the generally worse reliability, higher replacement cost and strange no-shift/buzzy attributes.

      • eric, Nissan has always had too expensive parts. You can’t gouge cheap vehicle buyers that way. They have put bad transmissions in millions of vehicles and word finally gets around.

        I saw a pic 4 years ago of an airport runway near Houston with 10,000 Altima’s sitting there just baking, brand new.

        We rented a Versa because of a garbage truck running over our Blazer. It was little POS that had plenty buzzing and rattling and a really shitty ride with lots of noise. I let the wife drive and sat in the back often tracking down the rattles and such and “trying” to fix them, often failing because I couldn’t find a fastener. Spot welding and not using enough spots is custom made for noises you can’t fix without removing major parts. It got shitty mileage too and was uncomfortable as it could be.

        I’m not big on the Asian cars due to the seats anyway. I never thought about my ribcage being too large since it was never an issue with American vehicles. Well, it is with Japanese cars to say the least. I drove an Altima about 20 blocks one day and changed vehicles with the wife. The seats were that uncomfortable.

        If you’re going to market a car in a country, realize that Americans aren’t the tiny people Japanese are. The Versa had to have a windshield before we could use it and it costs nearly twice what the windshield for my pickup cost. Too much cost and not enough value. Even had shitty radios.

        • a set of four shocks on my frontier was only $80 at vatozone.
          I LMAO when they told me there was a ‘lifetime warranty’

          front end parts, bearings and brakes aren’t too costly except for the rotors. Brick and mortar stores wanting 50-80 for rotors and raybestos were closer to 20 on rockauto
          hopefully I won’t need any glass replaced.

    • I can’t comment on Nissans CVTs. I did drive one back in 2008 in a Sentra and an Altima. Those were junk. I had a Subaru CVT which was an empty bag of guts. Never again. Nissans have a terrible reliability reputation, mainly centered on their transmissions. They would be better to buy transmissions from Aisin than use JATCO. 5 speed or 6 speed manuals are the only way to go. I wish more cars had them.

      • Pre 2011 JATCO Re5RO5A trannys would drink coolant as the radiator lines would crack and fluid would intermix and kill it. 2011 onward they put better radiators in or you can get a solid aftermarket one and not worry. Others did a small mod of bypassing the radiator altogether and the tranny still function normally and under load. Valve body had several issues in earlier models but many can get 200k miles out before any issues, per the Xterra/Fronty mileage forum posts. I do a tranny flush every 30k miles now with my X at 160k. Fluid is still coming out cherry red so things look healthy.

    • Test drove a 2019 Titan SV a few weeks back as my son and I were waiting on the wife at a shindig. Interior and design of the thing are very eye appealing. Even has a good exhaust note stock. However the engine bay was a nightmare and you probably couldn’t fit a playing card anywhere in it, the thing was tight. So cross off repairs at home. The extra paneling for the crumple zone in the engine bay was hideous also. Secondly, way too much garbage electronic nanny-isms behind the dash compared to previous models. I’m sure the endurance V8 and its dual OHC are a great engine but there was way too much stuff that needed to be turned off for it to be an enjoyable truck. Interior is nice though. Eric’s old Fronty and the second gen Xterra and Frontiers with their VQ40 will be the best Nissan has ever done (Parts between the Frontier/Xterra/Titan/Armada are bolt on ready and swappable). The rogues and muranos sell like hot cakes but that is the only bright point Nissan has. The Z car is being discontinued and the Titan is probably going to croak soon. Armada’s are selling fairly well as a discount to the expensive Tahoe’s. But Nissan cannot survive on selling only two models well, and they are not as Eric has pointed out.

    • Tom nailed it. Other than the EV problem, for sure It’s also the CVT. I rent a lot of cars and decline Nissans for just that reason. They ‘feel’ wrong, all the time.
      I do like their trucks, but would not buy one only because, to me, they are god awful ugly., Their very high, weird looking hood line is the culprit (for me). I thought I might get used to it, but there’s a Nissan dealer next to my biz so I see them every day and it has not grown on me.
      The once great Sentra, Altima, and Maxima are no longer relevant. I’m guessing the rise of Kia and the like have really hurt Nissan as well. All I see on the road are Kia’s and Hyundai’s.
      Hey Nissan, how about you build a big RWD Sedan with a normal trans. and maybe it will save you? How about just rebadge a Q50 and/or Q70 and give it a go.

    • Had a rental Altima once. Loved the power and quickness of the V6, and its a very nice car for the most part. But that noisy whinny CVT ruins it for me. It would be a very solid car with a regular transmission.

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