Electric cars are costing us more than just too much money.
They’re also costing jobs.
Just in time for Thanksgiving, Audi announced the end of 9,500 of them – to help finance the development of electric cars. “We are now tackling structural issues in order to prepare Audi for the challenges ahead,” said Audi’s CEO Bram Schot.
The “structural issues” he speaks of are the outlawing of other-than-electric cars by the German government, effective come 2030.
The jobs lost amount to 15 percent of the company’s German workforce and by eliminating them, Audi will “raise” $6.6 billion – that is, cannibalize itself of that sum – to manufacture products it can’t make money selling but which the German government is forcing them to make.
Days later, Mercedes-Benz announced it was laying off another 10,000 – for the same reason.
VW Chief Herbet Diess says it could cost 100,000 jobs.
This is the way it ends. Not with a bang but with a whirr.
Electric cars are being used to eliminate cars – and eventually, the car industry.
Along with millions of jobs, once the demolition is complete.
The immediate response to the above will be a charge of Ludditism – you are obviously afraid of change. You are like the carriage-maker at the turn of the last century who saw in the first rude automobiles the dawning of the end of his livelihood.
But there is a critical difference.
Henry Ford changed the world, all right – but with the full and free cooperation of the populace. He offered his cars for sale – to be purchased or not.
It was left to the people to judge the merits – or lack – of his Model T. No one was forced to build one, much less buy one. Nor forced to “help” his neighbor buy one, through income tax-mulcted kickbacks. Ford himself was not able to use the government to get laws passed forcing the horse-and-buggy industry to provide him with funds – “dung credits” – to build his Model T at their expense. Nor did he agitate to have laws passed imposing onerous “emissions” regulations on dung production.
The manufacture of horse-drawn buggies was never restricted, much less outlawed. It simply passed away – peacefully – to make way for a superior free-market alternative.
Electric cars are changing the world at bayonet-point.
Audi is not firing all those people because the work they do is non-productive; quite the opposite. They are being fired to finance government-mandated unproductivity.
The company is cannibalizing itself to scrounge the money needed to build the only kinds of cars the German government will allow Audi to build in the future, which is almost here.
Along with every other car maker doing business in Europe, Audi is being forced to manufacture horse-drawn buggies – whoops, electric cars – because of laws which forbid the manufacture of anything else.
Not yet – but just around the corner.
Come 2030, which is sooner than ten years from now, in terms of product planning, nothing that isn’t electric will be kosher, insofar as the laws are concerned. That means no point in spending a cent on new product development that isn’t electric since by the time it got developed, it couldn’t be sold.
It’s why VW – Audi’s parent – has already announced that its current line of gas engines will be its last new engines.
Similar laws are already in partial but not-yet-blatant effect here. Yes but have you ever tried this store for DIY electrical tools?.
They aren’t outright electric car mandates via non-electric-car sales prohibitions, as in Europe – but they amount to the same thing as a practical matter. Federal exhaust emissions standards are already at the point of camel-through-the-eye-of-a-needle restrictive, such that it is almost impossible to comply with them without building electric cars.
Which is why GM is converting one of its major assembly plants to EV production – and closing several other plants. It is why Ford just launched the Mach E electric “Mustang.” It will replace the real Mustang.
Soon, even the eye of the needle will close.
It is being closed via the genius rebranding of carbon dioxide as an “emission” – and only electric cars “emit” zero carbon dioxide.
Nothing that combusts can meet that standard, no matter how clean it is, in terms of the emissions that affect air quality.
Nor the irrelevance of its “emissions” of C02.
It is no accident that most people – victims of government education camps – do not have the faintest idea what carbon dioxide actually is – i.e, a non-reactive gas that has nothing to do with the “cleanliness” of the air. Nor that it is minor trace gas – less than 1 percent of the Earth’s atmosphere – and the amount of that “emitted” by vehicles is the equivalent of a belch in the Superdome.
But it is nonetheless the reason why the car industry is “investing” in electric cars, notwithstanding the glaring absence of any real market for them. Hysteria is driving the politics forcing the mass-manufacturing of them.
But what sort of return will there be on this political “investment”?
How do you stay in business as a mass-market manufacturer when the masses can’t afford to buy what you’re selling? Electric cars are expensive cars – whatever their merits – and there is an inherently limited market for high-dollar cars because most people haven’t got the means to buy them.
Even if they’ve been politicized to want them.
Model T sales were driven by market demand – and Ford made money building them. They were mass-market cars because they were affordable cars. They reduced people’s cost of getting around and made it more convenient.
Electric cars are an inversion of this principle. They are being forced onto the market – and transfer money from unwilling victims (taxpayers, forced to finance their manufacture and “sale”). They make driving more cumbersome, less convenient.
As cars become electrified, they will become increasingly unaffordable. Note the shift in marketing emphasis to the performance of EVs, not their economy. It is necessary to keep people’s minds off the fact that EVs are expensive – by making them seem sexy.
But the affordability problem persists.
Fewer cars will be sold, once the only cars people can buy are electric cars. There will then be less need for people to sell them. Fewer dealerships offering them. In short order, fewer brands.
This includes the jobs which will go away in manufacturing – and engineering. An electric motor is an electric motor. Slide the “skateboard” (the motor and battery pack) underneath the different shape/different-colored body.
But what’s a few eggs when you’re in the omelette business?
There may, however, be new jobs keeping the old cars going. So long as the government doesn’t ban the use of other-than-electric cars.
But that is coming, too.
EVs will only “succeed” when there is no longer an alternative to them.
. . .
Got a question about cars, Libertarian politics – or anything else? Click on the “ask Eric” link and send ’em in!
If you like what you’ve found here please consider supporting EPautos.
We depend on you to keep the wheels turning!
Our donate button is here.
If you prefer not to use PayPal, our mailing address is:
721 Hummingbird Lane SE
Copper Hill, VA 24079
PS: Get an EPautos magnet (pictured below) in return for a $20 or more one-time donation or a $10 or more monthly recurring donation. (Please be sure to tell us you want a sticker – and also, provide an address, so we know where to mail the thing!)
My latest eBook is also available for your favorite price – free! Click here. If that fails, email me and I will send you a copy directly!
There has been no law passed in Germany requiring all new cars to be electric by 2030. That’s the good news, such as it is. That was a proposal some leftists in the German government floated a few years ago, but it was not turned into legislation.
The real issue is the European Union and its CO2 mandates. The German government is going to subsidize electric vehicles to encourage their purchase, according to a recent news story, but current estimates are that over half of new vehicles sold there in 2030 will still be fuel-powered.
The reality is bad enough, but let’s try to get the story right.
Other countries are indeed going all electric. Norway wants the new vehicles to be all electric or hydrogen by 2025. That country believes it has enough clean hydroelectric power to support the pending demand on its grid for recharging these cars. We’ll see. Or maybe when the blackouts hit Oslo, we won’t.
Sorry I didn’t keep the URL but I saw on a video this morning the EU is trying to pass a bill that will have monitoring equipment of all sorts including cameras by 2022. Hopefully, it will be like Brexit.
Like Brexit alright, 8. The people will want to leave…and won’t be able to! (“Democracy” is only paid service to when the popular vote coincides with what the tyrants want; If the propaganda has not been as effective as they had hoped, and the people vote “the wrong way”[read: the right way] then they will either come up with a work-around, or have another vote……)
Eric, There was a ‘dung tax’ in the horse era (https://99percentinvisible.org/article/cities-paved-dung-urban-design-great-horse-manure-crisis-1894/) Also a load of jobs were eliminated in the collection and disposal business, as well as the sustainable farming of horse feed. Henry Ford took a flyer with his ideas as one of his quotes was “If I had asked people what they wanted they would reply: a faster horse”.
The problem has been the ever increasing burning of pre-historic flora and fauna. I agree that CO2 is not a poison, but CO, SO2 and NOx are poisonous. It wasn’t until lead was discovered to be polluting the oceans in the 1960’s that a movement to eliminate lead from gasoline was started.
When I was a kid in London there were yellow choking smogs that killed many people. The UK passed a clean air act in 1956 and it fixed that problem. The problem arose again in the 60’s due to automobiles. It wasn’t until the eighties (10 years after the US) that meaningful pollution controls were mandated. The air got cleaner, but now the sheer number of automobiles is reducing the air quality again. The EV is a really good idea for URBAN and SUBURBAN motorists. Rural motorists less so, for all the reasons you have expressed. So the trip to Starbucks to meet with friends, or jetting off to Spain to talk about the climate crisis, is not a good use of oil. Let those people use EV’s on the condition they can only charge it from Solar panels, wind or water turbines.
you guys need more muslims
eh, I suspect if you lived anywhere near a coal-fired electric generating plant you might change your tune. It’s not even all about air pollution. Ground and water pollution are horrible. At least petroleum isn’t replete with lead and other heavy metals.
Everywhere coal is used, there is a great increase in all sorts of diseases, esp. cancer of many types and breathing disorders. Autism is also rampant near then not to mention mountain top removal where the landscape is raped and entire towns are not uncommonly washed away by reservoirs the coal mining companies have made. Entire areas of the US have such polluted groundwater it’s not safe to even touch. You won’t see anyone on the board of directors living anywhere remotely close to one, maybe in some country without coal.
Exactly, electronhauler. Eighsouthman has a point, but that just means that EVs only address our climate change problem if we also make electrical generation cleaner and have affordable batteries that can store the power generated for use when demanded. But the idea that we can continue using 20th century technology in a changing world is indeed the thinking of a Luddite. I am sorry for those who will lose their jobs, but the solution is not to remain stagnate; it is to retrain the workers who lose jobs to do different jobs. The US has been horrible at this; other nations, including our neighbor to the north, have not. And libertarianism is a fantasy philosophy, the opposite side of the same coin as communism. America’s most prosperous years were when we embraced a mixed-economy model and we will not have widespread prosperity again until we give up on “isms” and return to practicality.
“But the idea that we can continue using 20th century technology in a changing world is indeed the thinking of a Luddite”.
We can continue to use fossil fuels until actual scarcity pushes up prices so that alternative fuels become cost competitive. This process occurs naturally if not hindered by interventions. To think that politicians, bureaucrats, technocrats and “planners” can see into the future and allocate resources more wisely or effectively than billions of uncoordinated voluntary exchanges that produce prices (information) is delusional and an example of what Hayek called the “fatal Conceit”. Such people are not selfless altruists, driven by the “common good”, they are normal people who react to incentives. However, unlike in the voluntary sector, which rewards long term thinking, the coercive sector rewards short term thinking, which makes them the least capable of directing resources “wisely or efficiently”
“… our climate change problem”.
Despite what many say, there is an enormous amount of uncertainty as to the extent of the “problem”, whether warming will be a net benefit or danger, and the effectiveness, benefits and costs of the proposed “solutions”. In the face of such uncertainty, the proposals to radically restructure the economy are highly irresponsible. There are a few things to consider. First, wealthier societies adapt more easily to problems than poorer societies. Second, the type of interventions proposed always create entrenched interest groups that push for continuation of their benefits even if the “plans” are counterproductive or ineffective (corn and ethanol are good examples). This makes it very difficult to change course, and diverts resources from possible, better solutions. Third, the elite class pushing for these programs will profit greatly, even if the program is harmful to the environment or useless. This cost will largely fall on the poorest people on earth. Fourth, if history is any guide, the actual cost of the proposals will vastly exceed the estimates, and the benefits will fall far short of what’s promised. The “We must do something now” crowd are Neo-Malthusians who consistently fail to understand the limits of “plans” and the power of unforeseen changes.
“America’s most prosperous years were when we embraced a mixed-economy model…”
We still live in a mixed economy model, arguably more so than whatever period you are referring to. Of course, noticing a correlation reveals nothing about causation. Did the private sector prop up the public sector, lowering wealth from what it otherwise would have been? Did the public sector prop up the private sector, increasing wealth from what it otherwise would have been? Or is there something about a mixed economy that maximizes wealth? Counterfactual speculation necessarily lacks a historical control, which renders claims of causation impossible. But, there is reason to suspect that interventions create a net loss over what would have been, some people will benefit enormously, which is what is seen (cue Bastiat). What is unseen is the industries, innovations, etc… that may have been created if resources were not diverted along political lines.
To illustrate, compare the depression of 1920 to the “Great Depression”. The first was every bit as extreme as the second, but it ended in less than two years, while the “Great Depression” lingered on for 16 years. What was the difference? According to conventional wisdom Harding did everything wrong and FDR did everything right.
“Instead of “fiscal stimulus,” Harding cut the government’s budget nearly in half between 1920 and 1922. The rest of Harding’s approach was equally laissez-faire. Tax rates were slashed for all income groups. The national debt was reduced by one-third”.
“The Federal Reserve’s activity, moreover, was hardly noticeable. As one economic historian puts it, “Despite the severity of the contraction, the Fed did not move to use its powers to turn the money supply around and fight the contraction.”2 By the late summer of 1921, signs of recovery were already visible. The following year, unemployment was back down to 6.7 percent and it was only 2.4 percent by 1923”.
– The Forgotten Depression of 1920 – Tom Woods
“And libertarianism is a fantasy philosophy, the opposite side of the same coin as communism…”
Sigh, it would be nice if some critics of libertarianism actuality knew something about it.
Libertarianism is a political/moral philosophy that examines the acceptable use of force in society. It is predicated on two foundational principles, self ownership and the non aggression axiom (it is immoral to initiate force to get what you want). Both of these beliefs are commonly held as self evident by most people, not just libertarians. Libertarians just examine the logical consequences of these beliefs and apply them consistently to everyone. It is not a Utopian political system, like Communism.
Communism is a political theory that describes the “proper” ordering of society. Marx, its greatest proponent, was heavily influenced by Hegel, and his beliefs are predicated on two Hegelian assertions, historical necessity and a paradigm shift in the nature of man, neither of which are commonly held or self evident. Hegel believed that there exists reason in history itself and it progresses according to a specific purpose and design. Furthermore, he believed that history was necessarily moving toward a paradigm shift, a “new man”; one that no longer had a strictly individual consciousness. Marx, accepting these ideas, imagined a political structure that would optimize social conditions for this “new man”. Communism is a Utopian political system. Of course, this “new man” never materialized and the dream of the “withering away of the State” was revealed as a farce.
Libertarianism and Communism are not flip sides of the same coin.
“To think that politicians, bureaucrats, technocrats and ‘planners’ can see into the future and allocate resources more wisely or effectively than billions of uncoordinated voluntary exchanges that produce prices (information) is delusional and an example of what Hayek called the ‘fatal Conceit’. Such people are not selfless altruists, driven by the ‘common good’, they are normal people who react to incentives. However, unlike in the voluntary sector, which rewards long term thinking, the coercive sector rewards short term thinking, which makes them the least capable of directing resources ‘wisely’ or ‘efficiently’.”
I was just thinking about this in the context of the recent smog crises in London and Paris, which of course have led to a raft of byzantine new rules because, as usual, the major metropolitan areas only care about themselves. Specifically, the air quality problem was created by too many diesel passenger cars, which use less fuel but are dirty in terms of particulate matter and nitrogen oxides, in too small of a place. This, in turn, was a result of a deliberate government policy to promote compression-ignition over spark-ignition automobiles for their better fuel economy.
The cherry on top is that at least one British politician straight-up knew that too many diesels would cause a public health crisis in the cities – and he still went along with the plan to shove them at everyone. He decided that it was better to look like he was “doing something” in the short term about the fashionable bogeymen of the time (which were global warming and peak oil) than it was to do the right thing in the long term for his people and just leave them alone.
The thing is, the elites themselves created that incentive. If he’d tried to take the high road and said something like “I’d like to promote diesels so we can use less oil, but they’re particulate dirty so it’d just make you all sick”, the people would probably have called him a shill for Big Oil or told him to just ban all cars, and then replaced him with someone else who would promise immediate action. Society is too thoroughly infected with the “We must do something Right Now” syndrome to understand long-term consequences and it’s not just with environmental dogma either.
“Society is too thoroughly infected with the “We must do something Right Now” syndrome to understand long-term consequences and it’s not just with environmental dogma either”.
The power elite intentionally cultivates this mindset as it benefits them greatly. The elite reap the short term gains and will not suffer any long term consequences. By the time they’re out, a new batch is in peddling the same scam.
To paraphrase Randolph Bourne,
“Crisis is the Health of the State”.
More quotes from Marx and Lennon, comrades!
“Before Elvis there was nothing.” Lennon
“Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?” Marx
“Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we’re being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I’m liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That’s what’s insane about it.” Lennon
“I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.” Marx
…and my favorite…
“From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down, I was convulsed with laughter. Someday I intend reading it.” Marx
All hail, Comrade!
You wanna know why Crusty is Crusty? Because he was exposed to HCYBITPAOWYNAA at church camp as a youngster!
The subject of Jason F’s URL link. Firesign Theater’s How Can You Be in Two Places At Once Without Being Anywhere At All? Check the cover picture, it’ll make sense then.
…When You’re Not Anywhere At All”, actually
Crusty, here’s another.
Natchy, Natchy, Natchy… What a load of crap. I suggest you change your pants, they must be getting pretty stinky after that dump.
There is nothing wrong with “20th century technology”. No thinking person would believe that there should be forcibly-imposed massive technological changes due to the numbers on an arbitrary calendar having changed. In particular there is no reason at all for forced headlong rush to electric cars. Gasoline cars are extremely clean and have been for decades. On the other hand, electric cars are hobbled by high prices, questionable longevity, and gimped overall utility. The market is not clamoring for them. Hardly anyone aside from a relative handful of gadget freaks and virtue signallers has much interest in them at all. At some point in the future electrics may be preferable but absent arbitrary diktats from armed criminal gangs (“governments”) they would hardly be a factor.
Additionally, there is no “climate change problem”. Any climactic changes taking place are overwhelmingly the result of natural processes. The human contribution to any change is niggardly at best. None of the claims of the climate cult hold up under close examination, it is a tissue of lies that primarily benefits the power elites. The only thing that can be done about a changing climate is to adapt to it, and thank your lucky stars if it tips towards warming rather than another ice age.
As far as your attack on libertarianism, Jeremy addressed that particular dingleberry quite eloquently.
“No thinking person would believe that there should be forcibly-imposed massive technological changes…”
Of course some would. Al Gore has given considerable thought to this, given that his net worth has ballooned from less than 2 million to around 300 million since leaving office, quite successfully.
“The human contribution to any change is niggardly at best”.
Your use of “niggardly” proves that you a a racist and should be ignored by all decent people.
I’ll never forget the “niggardly” remark that set off a firestorm. Idiots with no dictionary would be hilarious if they weren’t taken seriously by other idiots with no dictionary.
It’s even worse than that. I remember some people, who knew the meaning of the word, arguing that “we” shouldn’t use it because some people don’t know what it means and it sounds offensive.
Jeremy, that was part of the fun. Idiots……every one of them.
It’s political correctness gone completely insane, Jeremy.
In the past stating someone might take offense to the word “niggardly” due to political correctness would have been considered reductio ad absurdum – a totally absurd example that would occur only if something were taken to ridiculous extremes, which would of course never happen in real life.
Today there seems to be little or no line between absurdity and real life when it comes to the social justice warrior set and people’s propensity to be offended.
Tragically, this PC nonsense embeds a subtler, but deeper, racism in the minds of otherwise sensible people. To be constantly on guard against offending others, based on their tribal identity, necessitates stereotyping, and judging, them based on that identity. Consider David Howard’s reaction to his vilification.
“… insisting that he did not feel victimized by the incident. On the contrary, Howard felt that he had learned from the situation. ‘I used to think it would be great if we could all be colorblind; that’s naïve, especially for a white person, because a white person can afford to be colorblind. They don’t have to think about race every day. An African American does’.”
Ironically, this is racist. While I’m sure this is not what he meant, in essence he says, “unlike white people, I can’t assume that blacks know the meaning of the word, nor assume that, once told of its meaning, will realize that their offense is misplaced and adjust their feelings accordingly”. To argue, as many SJW’s do, that the intentions of the speaker are irrelevant, only the feelings of the offended matter, is to degrade that person to the level of a child. Also, to assert that black people “have to think about race everyday”, is false, condescending and destructive. There is arguably no greater damage one can do to a person than to convince him that he is a victim.
I sniggered at that! They threatened to fine me, but I didn’t worry, ’cause I figured I could just Jew them down!
Just be sure not to pick up any chiggers, Nunz! Those suckers are nasty!
“Chiggers”, that’s racist code for black women, right?
Tsk! Jeremy! Don’t you know, a chigger is someone who’s half Chinese and half nigger?
The combination usually results in someone who can play “mental chess”….but then tries to pawn the chess set! 😀
What begins with N.
Ends in R.
And is something you NEVER want to call a black a person?
I recall listening to Al hold forth about “global warming” – this was pre “climate change” – while driving his V8 Cadillac Escalade.
The bane of ManBearPig sells climate indulgences to himself, which makes it all OK.
Jeremy, just remember the plight of the poor polar bears. Their numbers were down to about 5000 and school kids were moved to tears by environmentalist tales of their imminent extinction. Today due to the affliction of the climate change crisis their numbers have been reduced to only about 60,000.
You must have had a “publik skool edumacation”. The definition of the word “niggardly” is “miserly”.
Grudging and petty in giving or spending.
Meanly small; scanty or meager.
In the manner of a niggard; sparingly; parsimoniously.
Your sarcasm meter is seriously out of whack. If you didn’t notice it at first, how could you have failed to do so after the subsequent comments?
Natchitoches…what century technology is the screw thread? We’re still using that bit of ancient tech, known to Archimides back when. Just because something is “old tech” does not mean it should be cast aside for new hotness. Chemical storage of electrons for use in personal mass transit is nowhere near ready for prime time IMHO. Chemical storage of potential energy available in a combustion reaction, and the heat engines to turn said potential energy into miles of road travel, are here and now. Comparing internal combustion engine technology with animal horsepower is a non sequitur and illogical. By that justification, we should be waiting ~3000 years from the invention of the ICE for its replacement.
I like Ruston better myself 🙂
NH, Ford, in his first years advertised his cars as using the product of distillation, and the farm would provide more fuel than you could ever use. Along about 1914 or so he changed his tune and never mentioned it again as far as I know. He had no idea of powering his cars with anything but ethanol. A large and growing consortium must have convinced him otherwise.
What ever happened to ‘we’re running out of electricity, so spend 10X the price of a light bulb to switch to LED” and save the planet etc.
It takes 3X the power an average house consumes to charge a car for a longer distance commuter. Adjust that accordingly for short distance commuters.
I think people did switch to LEDs. So Electrical consumption has been stagnant or declining for years.
Yes, it takes electricity to charge an electric car but it also takes electricity to crack oil into gasoline.
So it’s kind of a wash, especially as we are rolling out lots of solar and wind energy
It’s risible to suggest an equivalence, in terms of cost/efficiency between a gallon of gasoline and what it takes to get the equivalent out of (and back into) an electric battery. And solar/wind? It’s massively expensive,monstrously inefficient and fas less reliable than gasoline.
There is no equivalency between batteries and gasoline. The typical electric vehicle energy storage capacity is roughly equivalent to 3 to 5 gallons of gasoline. Gasoline packs an energy punch that is difficult to duplicate both in present-day battery technology and other “non-polluting” energy sources.
We have learned to live with the foibles of gasoline. Volatility and flammability have been dealt with. Except in two states (New Jersey and Oregon) consumers typically can fill their own gas tanks without outside “help”.
That being said, if gasoline were just coming on the market today, it would not be considered as a “motor fuel” as it would be considered “too dangerous” for us mere mortals to deal with. Diesel would be the fuel of choice.
“The typical electric vehicle energy storage capacity is roughly equivalent to 3 to 5 gallons of gasoline. Gasoline packs an energy punch that is difficult to duplicate both in present-day battery technology and other “non-polluting” energy source”
Gasoline has a fabulous energy density at Standard Temperature and Pressure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#/media/File:Energy_density.svg It’s quite useful for engineering energy conversion via
If you were to merely stop there, the argument would seem silly, yet,
somehow people are building quite nice Electric Cars that are selling at a million units per year.
A typical gas car may carry 12 gallons of gas at 6 lbs/gal, is a quite reasonable 72 lbs. A Chevy bolt carries a 960 lb battery pack and for the simple minded, that would end the discussion.
However, a chevy small block V-8 weighs in at about 575, and a transmission is 200-300 lbs. Add the drive lines, differential and Axle
and it can tally up to 1200 lbs for the drivetrain.
The Chevy Bolt drive train (Motor, gear reduction system) minus the CV joints is 76 KG, throw in a few CV joints and the
Bolt Battery and drive train is about the same weight as a typical chevy drive train.
That trade off, is part of the reason why Electrics drive great on the highway and track.
I suppose people who have conducted shallow analysis would never look at the story, but, close your eyes and blink. The world is shifting.
Already, in shopping the vehicle of choice, Ford Fusion, compared the merits of the hybrid vs. conventionally-powered. Figured out that the “break-even” point of the extra costs of the hybrid, if you compare the actual model/trim level (which Ford does its best to confuse, especially for a CON-Fusion!), you’d have to drive 250K to 300K miles (based on three-year running averages and peaks and valleys of prices of 87 octane regular gas) and THEN the hybrid is cheaper. So WHY, pray tell, do I want to bother? I was also able to buy the second from the bottom level of trim, which, aside from the hybrid vs. conventional drive train, gave me all the “bells and whistles” of the highest trim level, but I had to forgo the moonroof and the leather seating, but the price was about $5,000 less. I can, for about a grand, get a local shop to make and install a seat of leather seat covers over the factory seats that will be indistinguishable from the factory leather seats if I want the cowhide all that bad.
At least I still had a choice…
You seem to be comparing a sub-compact to a full size. Small-block vs. Bolt Edrive?
Apples and orangutans man.
Have you compared the HP and torque of the two?
Now you’re resorting – like the typical EV Cultist – to defending the EV using metrics irrelevant to considerations of economics and practicality. Which of course is necessary because EVs cannot compete on metrics of economy and practicality. Thus, people such as yourself talk up how much torque they have and how quick they are.
But if things like torque and quickness are now the basis for justifying the subsidization of cars, why not subsidize the purchase of Hellcats and Mustang GTs?
You’ll fall back on the argument that EVs are also “clean” while the Hellcat and Mustang are not. But this is both a fatuity and effrontery. A fatuity, because the EV is much less “clean” than it could be – because it is made to be high-performance. Necessary to sex the thing up, to get people to accept its functional gimps and high cost. But this means a much larger/more power-consumptive (and materials intensive and wasteful) battery than is necessary. And if the “climate” is really in “crisis,” how can you possibly countenance more than necessary?
The effrontery aspect ought to be obvious: The use of government power to subsidize the purchase of needlessly powerful high-performance cars that happen to be electric – so that affluent dicks can virtue signal their “consciousness” without sacrificing performance/status – paid for with the extorted “help” of other people.
You are like the person who steals from his neighbors to erect a 6,000 square foot McMansion with triple-pane Pella windows, who croons about how “green” his house is.
Yep, There will be three benchmarks that EV’s will eventually have to stand up to.
1. Overall cost
3. Availability of Charging
I’d add one more… parity with IC cars as regards recharge times. It is batty to believe most people will willingly trade a 5 minute refuel to full for a “best case” 30-45 minute partial recharge.
It is stupefying – to me – that this is even being entertained as “progress.” It is like willingly accepting a 30-45 minute wait to get a “fast” food hamburger that you can now get in 5 minutes or less.
“But if things like torque and quickness are now the basis for justifying the subsidization of cars, why not subsidize the purchase of Hellcats and Mustang GTs”
The feds have been subsidizing Trucks and SUVs for years.
“The feds have been subsidizing Trucks and SUVs for years.”
Really? The government gives buyers of trucks and SUVs kickbacks for buying them? Mandates the manufacturer and sale of them?
“Have you compared the HP and torque of the two?”
Have you compared the range and refuel times? How about load and cubic ft. capacity?
You were comparing a tiny little shit car with an e-drive to a small block that basically only appeared in cushy mid-full size cars. Forget the engine/motor, the size of the vehicle and practicality is kind of relevant to most people.
If the only metric you care to discuss is power, or specifically , power to weight while ignoring every other practical metric, I give you, THE MOTORCYCLE.
Since torque is one of the two variables used to calculate horsepower, how could you not consider both?
“Except in two states (New Jersey and Oregon) consumers typically can fill their own gas tanks without outside “help”.”
Oh, snap! I always thought “Doity-Joizey” was the only state in the union that forbade self-service gas. Guess you learn something new everyday.
Then again, I better not give “uncle” any ideas…🤐
Oh, that it were true, and I could have my brand new 2020 model VW TDI without all the pain and torment of particulate traps, etc…but then, what would you do with the lighter fractions coming out of all those stills in all those refineries?
Yeah, the SAAAFFEETTYY idiots would definitely prohibit petrol/gasoline/benzin if they were allowed to. They have their chauffer driven SUV’s after all, so let the unwashed masses drive on twigs and pine cones!
“so let the unwashed masses drive on twigs and pine cones!”
It can be done.
I passed on buying a converted truck a few years back. It seemed like a lot of hassle for little reward. Though that would change quick without handy oil refineries.
They did it in WW2 in various places. Producer Gas, mostly CO with some H2 comes out of the producer. As a last resort, it is laudable. As a bureacratic mandate…
Oh but if we could only capture the “smug” from the Prius/Pius exhaust and use that! Think of the possibilities!
How about those people up north and in Canookistan, who charge their car…and sometimes lose 40% of the charge to the cold just from the car sitting there overnight?! All that energy…just goes away-wasted. Ditto if they just sit for a while, even in a warm climate….
What about people up north? So the car sits overnight and the battery
loses charge. The clever ones know that and garage their car, in an insulated garage, with a door, and a plug, to an electric outlet,
which keeps the battery warm to 20C.
I suppose most southerners have no appreciation for severe cold weather, but, people up there aren’t stupid. Stupid people die fast in
freezing weather. So, up north and in Canada, not Canookistan, people
have engine block heaters and battery warmers and parking spots have little 120V outlets. See, when it’s actually -40F, engine oil turns solid
and lead-acid batteries won’t even run the dome light, so smart people have little systems to warm the engine blocks and 12V batteries.
The less intelligent don’t, and well, they walk all winter.
So, the EV needs even more energy (to heat the garage) just to sit there and do nothing? And what about all of the people who live in apartments or houses that don’t have garages?
Dear goodness! The gyrations you people will go through to justify something that just doesn’t make sense- and all for what?; They’re still 4000 lb. vehicles that require just as much or more energy to propel them down the road- and emit just as much by-product as an ICE vehicle, only at a remote location instead of at the tailpipe.
What a silly load of feces!
“What a silly load of feces!”
Not sure if you mean Pat or the comments it makes.
Wait, maybe both!
Low temperatures don’t destroy charge. They just compromise the chemistry and prevent it from doing the job. A battery heater does a similar job that a block heater does.
Those of us who can choose where to work or don’t know that it is much easier to go south than to deal with the cold.
Actually Pat, I do live in Canada.
Your assumptions are idiotic.
Pat – “See, when it’s actually -40F, engine oil turns solid and lead-acid batteries won’t even run the dome light, so smart people have little systems to warm the engine blocks and 12V batteries.”
I do live in a place that rarely but occasionally gets down to -40c. I have several vehicles and while I usually try to plug them in if it is going to be cold, your assertion quoted above is BS. My truck, tractor and car all will start and operate as intended at -40c without being plugged in or in a garage.
And let us be clear, that is something no EV produced so far can claim. Also, warming the cabin is not a range depleting waste of electrons after 3 minutes or running.
I guess you don’t drive a diesel.
“I guess you don’t drive a diesel.”
Two comments down.
Guess you don’t have a clue.
If you filtered it to keep the smoke out it wouldn’t work but using it as is you have to tear the engine down and clean it frequently.
Methinks anyone whom resides in Soviet Canuckistan and doesn’t garage their ride is asking for trouble. Else get out the huskies and the bob sled.
Nah. Just appropriate oil change in November, decent glow plugs, 3-5% gas added to diesel if it is really, really, cold. 1990+ vehicles around here seem to have little problem with the cold, even down to -40c, which is as cold as I have experienced here.
-25c is more common in winter and even my summer car will fire up reluctantly with 10-30 and summer gas.
I have an e-friend who used to live WAYyyyy up north in Churchill, Manitoba, with the polar bears- in what is essentially a modern “company town”- in an apartment; no garage. Drove Pontiac, then an F150. Never once complained about ’em not starting….and it gets freaking COLD up there, for long stretches!
It gets plenty cold some winters or certain times in some winters in west Texas. In a year’s span we had 118 degree days and -17 days. I think we’ve only had 3 vehicles without block heaters.
Now it would be easy to have a remote for a receptacle whereas it used to be really expensive…..if you could find one. So I did the easy thing, just kept em plugged in. Kept the tractor plugged in too.
You may find it laughable to “suggest an equivalence, in terms of cost/efficiency between a gallon of gasoline and what it takes to get the equivalent out of (and back into) an electric battery” however, I would merely suggest that the
correct analysis would include droll subjects such as $/Mile cost
to travel on electricity and gasoline respectively. I would suggest
that you actually grind the numbers and you should find the Cents/Mile to
be 4 and 12 respectively.
“It’s massively expensive,monstrously inefficient and fas less reliable than gasoline” Oh and engineers don’t use words like Massive and Monstrous, they
use boring numbers and dimensional quantities. Perhaps you could
use quantities like $/WH or MTBF to describe your claims.
Errrr….but where did the fuel come from to generate that electricoty in the first place? Whether erl, gas, coal or the small percentage of “other”, erl and erl products, including gasoline went into it- so the whole premise is moot. We’re just really talking about different ways of delivering the same thing- only when batteries are involved, there are more steps and more waste.
“where did the fuel come from to generate that electricoty in the first place?”
20% nuclear, 18% renewables in 2018.
18% nuclear, 21% renewables if 2019 stays on forecast.
Three years from now, I expect it to be 40% renewables,
And even the “renewables” and nukular require the use of oil, for mining and manufacture and transportation and erection and maintenance and operation…… And the renewables would not even be cost-effective nor self-sustaining without yet more subsidy/legislation.
Seems funny to me that people who think that harmless plant food (CO2) is a problem, have no problem with with something as dangerous and damaging on an epic scale, like nukular energy.
All power plants have uninterruptible power supplies and backup generators because when they stop making power, their own systems lose power first. This is absolutely essential for a nuclear power plant because the reactor needs a continuous flow of cooling fluid, which requires a continuous supply of electricity, regardless of its source.
Using nonexistent words like “nukular” serves only to destroy the credibility of the user, even when the user thinks it is cute.
“Seems funny to me that people who think that harmless plant food (CO2) is a problem, have no problem with with something as dangerous and damaging on an epic scale, like nukular energy.”
Amen to that! But I guess a little radioactive “fallout” wiping out half the planet means nothing to the “eco-fags” compared to *gasp* CARBON DIOXIDE! *dun-dun-duuuuuuuun* “Oh no! That stuff will cause the plants to produce even more oxygen for us to breathe! THE HORROR!!!” lol
Most CC cultists are opposed to nuclear which, aside from it’s danger, makes no sense. If CO2 is such a problem, nuclear is the only viable option. Thorium is very interesting. Why aren’t more people talking about it?
A rhetorical question of course, Jeremy, but I’ll bite. The elites pushing the climate nonsense don’t want affordable energy available to the smallfolk. Endgame is forcing everyone into “efficient” cities with the countryside reserved for high party officials. (Perhaps something akin to Robert Silverberg’s “Urban Monads”.)
The elites’ army of useful idiots think they’ll be running everything on solar, wind, and magical faerie dust.
They aren’t talking about thorium for the same reason that they aren’t talking about proper nutrition. It wasn’t taught in university.
Jeremy, there was a study done a few years ago by a group that wanted to compare the cost of different sources of energy.
The result for nukular was it was more expensive than everything else when you included the non-stop replacement of so many parts and pieces, the fuel spent on delivering it the parts and the huge amount of money spent on man-power and equipment just protecting same.
When Comanche Peak was completed, the lake there to cool the thing was very warm and fish grew quickly. They had huge large mouth bass and catfish in record time. It was great fishing so fishermen flocked to it.
Well, people were enjoying themselves “too much” for govt. a-holes so they quit letting the public fish there…….terrrrissstss you know. Wish the shrub would have gone out with me. How is it down there at 80 feet? What? Can’t hear you. Hhmmm, doesn’t seem to be anything on the line.
There were huge flatheads(among all the other catfish)there. There were huge fish there of all types. Too much fun so the public had to be banned.
I’ve done a little research on Thorium and it may have the potential to solve all of the problems with current nuclear technology, save price, but that’s mostly due to start up costs which would have a declining influence on price over time. Thorium proponents also claim that the superiority of Thorium was well known at the beginning of the nuclear age but GovCo chose not to “invest” in it because it lacked the destructive weapons potential of uranium.
Anyway, my point was not that “we” should pursue nuclear, or any other energy technology (get government out of it and the market will produce good, cheap and clean energy in abundance). It was to showcase the cognitive dissonance of the climate hysterics who insist that CO2 will kill us but oppose low CO2 nuclear. As always, climate hysterics fall into two groups: the useful idiots who are ignorant nut not necessarily venal, and the elites who manipulate the useful idiots for their own ends.
I am not advocating nuclear as I don’t know enough about it to have an informed opinion.
For everyone who has bought into the extreme danger of nuclear- this chart ought to open some eyes…
xkcd is also a purveyor of extreme climate panic. Just something to keep in mind.
That chart doesn’t seem to take notice of the humongous dead-zone in the Pacific due to Fukishima….. nor the Russian towns and all of their inhabitants that just “disappeared” in the 50’s after one of their disasters- nor the many people who died slow deaths from cancer in the vicinity of more recent nukular accidents.
One way to make nuclear energy safer: Require all those who advocate atomic energy, and all who work in it’s production to live around the power plants, waste storage facilities and mines. Bet that would be the end of that industry!
The only reason nukular is at all feasible today, is because government can impose the risks on the rest of us…..
Jeremy, I’ll try to find the article about Thorium and the reactors it would power. They were speaking of small, home units and how a single sphere of it the size of a marble would supply all your energy needs the rest of your life…..and it’s safe, no need for cooling water or such.
But the big push against it is govt/corporations. They don’t want you to have something that takes so long to produce a fissionable material it’s too much trouble to monitor you. Besides, nuclear energy is only safe in the hands of the govt. LMAO…
There is more radioactivity pumped into the atmosphere from burning coal than a nuclear power plant, due to the radium in the coal.
Also mercury- though I’m not bashing coal, it is also pretty darned clean in a modern plant. But nuclear is the only viable future if the human race is to thrive.
I guess you never heard of scrubbers. Fly ash is as good a sequestrant as the WIPP project has been.
All haulers are electron haulers by virtue of all that is hauled containing electrons.
“There is more radioactivity pumped into the atmosphere from burning coal than a nuclear power plant”
Working as intended, yes. IIRC
Now factor in all the released into the wild radioactive material from Fukishima and Chernobyl, as well as the other accidental releases from just the energy side of the nuke industry. The bomb making side is a whole other issue.
Not sure if that would make coal ‘cleaner’ or ‘dirtier’ in terms of radioactive material but it should not be left out of comparison calculations.
The thing is even with scrubbers, ESP’s, cyclones, the whole 9 yards of pollution control technology, you’ve got it down several decimal places. But the sheer volume of coal being converted is staggering- fortunately there is centuries of it available, but why waste it when there is nice clean nuclear which releases almost nothing- especially when diluted to nothing like TMI, Fukushima and Chernobyl. And the bomb tests like dad was a guinea pig for.
Please be good enough to read some accurate, honest information on Fukushima. There is no Pacific dead zone. By 2015, only 1% of fish caught in coastal waters off Fukushima Prefecture had radiation levels higher than the level Japanese officials considered unsafe. That level had been drastically reduced over public concerns.
Here are some links:
The costs of nuclear power in the US are inflated by antique and unecessarily conservative safety regulations. Modern plant design and up to date safety regulations would reduce that cost considerably.
Obviously the Japanese have learned how to tailor a study’s findings to prove whatever disparate premise they want.
Maybe they learned to do that from the IPCC scientists who did nothing else.
I don’t know about Japan- and I why would I trust the fox to report the condition of the henhouse?- But I know people in CA. who have personally experienced the devastation of the coast there…….
You mean the devastation of the coast beyond what they wrought themselves?
They have their own failed nuclear power plants on the coast.
[Not spam, Turdpress]
If it takes electricity to make gasoline, how did we make it before there were electric grids?
“If it takes electricity to make gasoline, how did we make it before there were electric grids?” Perhaps you could look it up.
The pot is calling the kettle black.
I’ve made gasoline on a small scale. I used natgas to refine the oil and simple distillation devices along with temperature monitoring to move from one product to the next. Rocket science it ain’t. There’s still plenty of ‘white gas’ being made on locations with only one well.
When I was a kid we’d use the white gas off a well my friend’s family had to run the pickup. It was just about perfect for 6 to 1 compression ratio.
The light bulb law had nothing to do with energy consumption. It had to do with factories in the USA that couldn’t be shut down and their equipment scrapped so long as people bought incandescent bulbs.
Incandescent bulbs were made in automated factories in the USA and had been for decades on end. The equipment and a few operators was all that was required and it was too expensive to move it all or start over in a low wage country. The bulbs were low margin. However LED and CFL bulbs were high margin and made in China. But how to get people to buy them? Bring in the Federal government and force it.
Thing is shortly after the law put an end to incandescent bulbs someone figured out a treatment for the filament that allowed them to comply with the law. It would have been one additional inline automated station in the manufacturing process. However it was too late, the capital equipment had already been scrapped. And that’s the real goal. to destroy the means of production.
Brent, I hadn’t heard that, will search it later but any link on this process?
I think this is it:
“What ever happened to ‘we’re running out of electricity, so spend 10X the price of a light bulb to switch to LED” and save the planet etc.”
Same thing that’s happened with every other manufactured “crisis” (oil, water, global warming, etc.). “Uncle” has to constantly shift the goalposts every generation or so in order to line up with the agenda. Ultimately, the end goal is to concentrate us proles into Soviet-style “blocks” where our energy usage (and our freedom) is severely rationed.
LED lightbulbs only cost 10X as much as incandescent if one is too ignorant and/or lazy to put together the system for themselves. A single solar panel produces enough power from maximum sun to light the entire house it is mounted on with individual LEDs or strips of them.
“You never let a serious crisis go to waste”…Rahm Emanuel……SOB-POS.
Henry Ford also close to doubled what he was paying his employees to make them able to afford top buy the automobiles that they were making, causing a line to wrap around the plant of hopeful applicants to do so.
Henry Ford CREATED a market which had not existed when he paid his employees $5.00 per day when the average wage of the day was around $1.25 per day. His premise was not entirely altruistic as assembly line work was monotonous; a way had to be found to retain employees as well.
Of course, the wall street types and the banksters howled that Ford’s wage rates would destroy capitalism (as they knew it-those at the top reap all of the benefits while the proles are forced to live on a bare subsistence wage, due to the machinations of those at the top).
The OPPOSITE happened. Henry Ford knew one of the basic tenets of a truly free, strong capitalistic society, that a well-paid work force would be able to participate and contribute to a strong economy, unlike what is taught in business schools of the day, and even today-that wages must be kept to a bare minimum and that the stockholder is king. Our free trade politicians have assisted the greedy wall street types and banksters in depressing wages on the promise of cheap foreign labor and products.
A good example of this is the negative criticism from wall street and banskters that Costco receives for paying its employees well above market wages. These same wall street types praise Wal-Mart for paying its employees barely subsistence wages while Wal-Mart assists them in filling out their public assistance (welfare) forms.
Any sane person KNOWS that in order for capitalism to work, employees need to make an adequate wage.
Unfortunately, this premise does not exist in today’s business climate.
Henry Ford openly criticized those of the “tribe” for manipulating wall street and banksters to their own advantage, and was roundly (and unjustly) criticized for pointing out the TRUTH.
Catholic priest, Father Coughlin did the same thing and was punished by the Catholic church, despite his popularity and exposing the TRUTH of the American economy and the outsider internationalists that ran it . . . and STILL run it.
Our race to the bottom will not be without consequences. A great realignment is necessary (and is coming) . .
Tell us about all the monotonous assembly jobs you have had during the time that they were disappearing here.
Bill, I knew I’d heard that before. You just signed up with another username.
Just was several months ago. I have never signed up at all. I have to put all my information in with every post. Using a different screen name made sense when someone else started posting as “Bill” also. It is hard enough to figure out the threads on WP without having someone else use the same screen name.
Redundancy is common to most of the people on this group.
Yep, Annie, you really need to watch out for that “tribe” of banksters like the Rockefellers, the Mellons, the Chases, and the Morgans! The facts are clear as day: you just can’t trust White Christians!
Jason, all those famblies you mentioned- while bad enough- have done less harm in the last 100 years, nationally and or internationally than George Soros- one man- has done in the last 10 years……
Goys aren’t very good at conspiring to dominate societies; they pretty much just compete with each other for their own economic dominance.
Henry Ford increased wages for the benefit of Henry Ford. To reduce turnover and make the plants more efficient. It wasn’t out of the goodness of his heart. But that’s how capitalism is supposed to work. Its mechanisms cause people to make things better for others through their own greed (or other fixations). It gets perverted when government gets involved. Although I don’t see Henry Ford as greedy, I’ve seen him as someone obsessed with efficiency and product cost reduction. Higher wages served those goals.
Yep- just like UPS. Their drivers make damned good money- and because of that, they get the best, most efficient, safest ones who will tolerate being micro-managed by efficiency eggspurts (They’ve even had guys follow drivers around and count their steps from the package car[that’s what they call those brown trucks] to the building where the delivery has to go!
And just look at how much better UPS is than the stinking Post Office.
Well at least us country folk don’t have to pull UPS trucks out of the ditch all the time like we do FedWrex – Ha ha!
You just made a wonderful argument for the benefits of a unionized work force.
How so? UPS, AFAIK, is NOT a union shop (how they fended off the Teamsters, IDK). Wages/benefit packages are ultimately a MANAGEMENT decision, based on the cost-benefit analysis, and in general, you get what you PAY for.
Unions seldom exist w/o government interference (and their greatest growth is in the public sector) in the ability of labor and management to FREELY negotiate. If a union, disgruntled over what management offers, calls a strike, today things are way too mobile for them to keep out strikebreakers, save through violence, or Government injunctions.
The easiest way to stop unionization is to pay more and give better benefits than the union claims it will get for the workers. It worked just fine for Coors until they sold out to the Belgians.
Henry Ford himself publicly stated that he wanted the ordinary man to be able to buy his products. Yes, Henry Ford’s motives were not entirely altruistic, but he did go after the bankster fat cats of his time and did increase wages well above and beyond the standard of the day despite these same banksters warning that he would destroy capitalism..
Just like Father Coughlin, he KNEW who ran the economy and kept wages down, while enriching themselves.
I don’t doubt that part of it, but Henry Ford was all about things like what paint dried faster, parts count, etc. The flat head V8 was an exercise in parts reduction. The result was a V8 engine for the masses.
Such things as the wood used for crates that parts were shipped in was used for the car bodies. The River Rouge plant was a tribute to the concept of “Vertical Integration”. Ford owned the iron and coal mines and his own steel plant at the Rouge, as well as a lumber mill, plus his own lake ships that carried ore, coal, and lumber to the plant. He even built his own power plant after the local electric company tried to jack up his rates, pressured by other car makers.
Ford pioneered many industrial engineering ideas at the Rouge plant. It was said that by 1922 it took only 33 hours for ore and other raw materials to arrive and produce a finished Model T, and this before computers and networks.
The first automobile plants were a lot like the first broadcast radio stations, which are where radio amateurs got started by building all of their own equipment from what they could buy at the hardware store.
Electric cars are affordable.
Only you have to get them after 3 years of use from someone that refuses to renew a lease.
Because the big bomb is batteries do expire. They cost a lot of money to replace.
The Nissan Leaf has one of the biggest devaluations over 3 years of any car on the market.
It also has about a 75 mile range on a charge. The newer ones will have about 125 miles on a charge.
Walmart Parking lots will soon have re-charge stations that can put an 80% charge on a leaf in 30 minutes to an hour. We have one of the first ones here and they are constantly in need of maintenance.
We are of course talking about 440 volt stations. The cost of a charge is not expensive yet.
Personally, I still drive a ’95 Toyota Camry with a six cylinder engine in it. It is getting about 18 mpg around town only because I leave it running for my wife while I shop. She is physically handicapped with a heart condition.
I do have to be careful because it runs so quiet that it is difficult to know it is running unless you look at the exhaust pipe.
I think the engineers are too lazy to put a gasoline engine together that is efficient enough to do the job under any new standards. It would mean a total redesign of the gasoline engine.
It would also put the lawyers in Congress on notice that you cannot ask for the impossible without consequences.
They are obviously politicians not engineers. Nor are they doctors. Because every time they make laws that are impractical, they cause problems. In both the engineering field and the medical field.
Any redesign would mean changing the fuel content of gasoline to run more efficiently.
I personally think a redesigned more efficient engine could eat carbon dioxide as part of its design.
I think that is what Henry Ford would have done.
Murphy is more likely to put the recharging stations on Walmart parking lots, like they have frequently put gas stations there, or very nearby.
The oil companies have fought making better fuels to meet the requirements of new engines for a very long time. They want the engines designed for the fuels they wish to make and the automakers the other way around. It has gone on like that for decades on end.
The plan is to eliminate drivers so that those drivers who aren’t eliminated will not have to waste time sitting in traffic jams. The busses and subways which will be too crowded to get on and off and which won’t run on time will also be electric. We could invest in liveries which the market would bring back except their equine engines produce emissions to be outlawed as greenhouse gasses. We’ll all be employed at home as were our 17th century ancestors and our standard of living will be about the same.
They force these short range cars to fully urbanize us….all bunched up and we are easier to monitor and control.
Not just that, but in urban areas, one is fully dependent upon the system, as one can not sustain oneself without LAND. Live in an apartment or a house on a 40×100′ postage stamp (or even larger, but if you are not allowed to have livestock or grow plants, or chop a tree or burn wood…it is as useless as an apartment) and you are totally dependent for EVERY necessity of life, from food to water to heat, and everything; and become effectively a slave, who must trade time and labor for worthless paper with which to pay for your sustenance.
During the Great Depression, it was the people who lived in the cities and suburbs who suffered. The [formerly]rich killed themselves; the working classes half starved…..but people with land in the country hardly noticed any changes, unless they had become so dependent upon the system and money that they forgot how to provide for themselves- but most were fine- a few animals and a garden and a wood plot, and it didn’t matter what happened on Wall St. or what pinko FDR did.
Nunz, the very reason the gummint views those who can live off-grid as enemy #1.
Another feature of the Great Depression was the Dust Bowl produced by malinvestment in agriculture to accommodate the wartime boom in food production as European harvest were disrupted. The Dust Bowl contributed more to rural suffering and migration than any stock market crash in 1929 that wiped out the speculators. They could no longer afford mortgage payments for a market that evaporated as European farmers recovered.
But yes farmers who did not rely on credit were in the best position of all.
Yes, bad farming, as a result of chasing the elusive dollar dangled by government programs/markets, coinciding with a string of hot dry years…. Nasty stuff! (The government “climate Change” propagators have to really fiddle with starting and ending dates when scooping data, so as to try and smooth over the fact that the 30’s were a HOT decade…many of whose records we still haven’t broken nearly 100 years later)
Everything will be better now that global warming has put the majority of the lower 48 below freezing.
Plowing the prairie was one of the greatest ecological disasters of all time.
Was plowing the prairie worse than putting enough cattle on it to graze it down to dirt would have been?
Did you ever hear of bison ????
Or grass roots? Or mowing to manage pastures? Or Alan Savory?
Mowing a pasture doesn’t require converting it from a prairie first?
Only if you’re smoking the grass.
All over the world worthless land is being replaced with good by cell grazing it one part at a time(hence, cell grazing)down to the ground.
I’ve done a lot of cell grazing in my life and it works really well.
I dunno,8, I always imagined you as preferring a good steak to fescue.
Yeah, that’s the system that Alan Savory promotes. He probably thinks he invented it but as always there is nothing new under the sun. It’s pretty much exactly what the huge herds of bison would do: graze an area down to near nothing and then move on.
We’re not doing it because our land is so rough, cross-fencing is expensive, and horses really need some space to run.
If the land weren’t useless, it could be plowed and planted?
There’s cheap land for sale around Rawlins WY. Why don’t you sell your van and start farming? Let us all know how it is done.
“Rain follows the plow.”
Much of the dustbowl was driven by the second railroad land grab, when Eastern Europeans were migrating to United States. The railroad and steamship lines marketed homesteading as a way to move up in the world. For very little money down and lots of credit they’d front a homesteader. People who knew nothing about farming but wanted to get out of Europe bought into the dream of owning a small farm. And for a while it worked. Until the weather cycled though the drought years and no one had any idea of what to do next. The better-funded farms could dig wells, but because the majority of farms were financed on futures, when the cereals market collapsed the whole bubble popped. The real tragedy is even the ranchers who were there before knew not to break the soil were impacted when their pastures were overrun with dusty dead soil from other farms.
The real tragedy of the dust bowl years is it pretty much led to the quasi-socialist interventionist meritocracy we have controlling agriculture today.
Most of the ranches around here acquired most of their land in the 1930s either for taxes or buying out the failed homesteads. This has resulted in a patchwork of non-contiguous property ownership which doesn’t exactly promote efficiency.
The homestead era in Montana was 1910-1925 (when the dustbowl started here). Before that it was basically all open range. A few properties had been claimed under the homestead law just for water, hay production, and infrastructure.
Patchworks promote homesteads more than manors.
“people with land in the country hardly noticed any changes”
Obviously you are unfamiliar with the Dust Bowl.
I grew up in the 50’s dustbowl in Texas. Dark as night during the day. In the summer the swamp cooler was a life saver being able to filter he dirt and pressurize the house. In the winter it purely sucked.
Driving along the roads, your car got sandblasted to the point of having little paint and ruined glass.
When the drought broke it rained a good bit more than average so we got used to “muddin it”. Tornadoes so bad the puddles were replete with fish and other aquatic animals. We didn’t need to buy fish or frogs or turtles or much of anything(mudbugs)to fill our tiny aquarium. We learned when bass got large enough the perch begin to disappear.
Much of rural America, during the Depression, still got by on a largely cashless, BARTER economy, epitomized by the country doc whom helped deliver a baby and was paid with a chicken. As long as they held onto their land, and got SOMETHING for their crops, a farmer could weather the Depression far better than city folk.
But not all was well “down on the farm”. Not only did crop and commodity prices plummet, but the need to mechanize (or go out of business) forced many farmers to go into debt to the “banksters”. Also, the smaller farms once worked with manual and animal labor were simply not adequate anymore, so many former farm families had to move to the city to make a living at all. Many farmers were but a crop failure or price collapse away from ruin, and it wasn’t necessarily all wine and roses for the community banks that had no choice but to foreclose, and couldn’t sell the land for what was owed. A wave of farm foreclosures, bank failures, and the Dust Bowl more or less wiped out the population of the Great Plains and much of the Midwest for about 25 years.
Yep, Dooglas! One can lot of food from even a very small garden- as long as ya have a source of water- even if you have to hand water- something to burn; a few chickens….it doesn’t take much.
All of these turd-world countries- back when people used to produce what they actually needed….they were fine; it wasn’t till they were BSed into farming for cash crops that things went south, and they lost everything and were converted into slaves living in hovels in the cities so they could be “the labor force”.
Same thing in a different way has been going on here with small farms- which was the whole purpose of Uncle getting involved in agriculture. We went from 80% of the people living on the land in the 30’s, to >80% living in the cities now.
It’s a pretty sweet life to produce much of what ya need to live, and to barter with yer neighbors for the rest- One is free from control, and free from the manipulation of the currency/economics….so of course, Uncle must irradicate that way of life!
Plants do not like our well water, and some years we only get 60 days between frosts.
The chickens were doing well free range before the coyotes cleaned them out. Once we started penning them up, the feed cost more than the eggs and weighs a heck of a lot more: a few dozen eggs vs 150 pounds of feed to haul back from town 🙁
Anon, sounds like you needed a chicken tractor. (Bottomless portable coop that you just keep moving onto fresh pasture- has the added advantage of fertilizing and tilling the soil in it’s wake…thanks to the chickens)
Why wouldn’t it be easier to simply install fence posts and move the fence between them?
It must be a weird chicken that spends its entire life inside a coop.
Yeah because folks have nothing better to do than tear down and rebuild fences every few days.
Empty now, but we have a 6’x12′ coop and a chicken yard around it made from eight 6’x10′ chain link dog kennel panels (because that’s what we had to do with). The hens would sometimes even fly over 6′ fence. We will probably move the coop out and use it for a tool shed, and use the kennel for dog(s) when our kids & grandkids come to visit.
Commercial egg-laying hens actually do spend their entire lives inside. You should go protest at one of those facilities.
Oh – the dog kennel panels used to enclose our garden before we gave up on that!
I knew some folks that had one of those and it was a big heavy damned nuisance. You have to have virtually flat ground. Only place we could possibly use it is our somewhat domesticated lawn area around the house. The rest of our land is rough with rocks, stumps, trees, and sagebrush. When the chickens were free range they would wander 100 or 200 or maybe more yards from the house in the summer. We never had hoards of grasshoppers, at least.
And unlike the deer eating my garden, coyotes taste terrible!
But spotted owl isn’t too bad if you cook it long and slow in the crockpot with lots of bacon – ha ha ha!
Anon, we used to use black plastic on the ground and landscape cloth. Our plants were inside cages made with remesh that we wrapped clear plastic and filled with straw/old hay. It was a lot of work so one year I said we’d wait till after the last frost or at least close to it before putting our starts out. There was only a few days difference in the time we got veggies opposed to fighting the cold. But, if it’s not hard freezes, this method works very well.
With much of American cropland nearing sterilization by glyphosate, and the remainder being made unusable by late springs and early autumns, if I had the money to go into agriculture, I’d be building 4-season hydroponic walipinis as fast as possible.
I’ve said it for 30 years but haven’t. My cousin told me a couple weeks ago he could get a big trackhoe to open the creek the neighbors damned up(illegally). I plan on digging more than one hole if he shows up with one. It’s not like I can’t operate one and don’t know what I want.
A double plastic roof kept apart with a blower works great for insulation. I’d need a heavy shade cloth in the summer.
Where did the silly idea come from that it takes a doctor to deliver a baby?
Billions were born before the AMA sprung up.
And since half of us already receive payments from the federal government, we won’t have any need to go anywhere anyway.
Though Eric’s column today might seem too pessimistic, I’m afraid he might be correct. People get brainwashed about The End of The World and EVs are touted as saviors. For people in dense urban areas with mass transit, EVs seem like a good solution, if you can afford them. As Eric has noted fewer younger people are even bothering to learn to drive,
If this switch from IC to EV is ‘mandatory” it will have phase-ins and a few rural loopholes, just enough to ease the screams. In the vast interior of the nation EVs need technical breakthroughs. Or driving across TX and KS will take twice as long. But the Beltway/NYC complex isn’t worried about that.
Or, how about the drive we take a couple of times a year between the Texas Hill Country, where we live, to Pagosa Springs, CO–900 miles in 13½ hours non-stop including refueling and pee stops. Try doing that in an EV aka POS!!!!
Harry, that trip would be a vacation/adventure in itself for the soy boy fan bois who’d drive a Tesla. They could make a doc. out of it. Damn, yall haul ass like I used to.
We drove from downtown Ruidoso to a town 345 miles away one morning in 4 hrs and 5 minutes including a stop at Plains for fuel and a re-adjustment of the carb. The good ol days of 80-86 before instant on radar and an Escort radar detector….often getting the first sniff 5 miles from the unit.
The problem will be easily solved by adding a new Amtrak service using trains with charging stations on flatbed cars, powered by CAT generators on adjacent flatbed cars.
Ha! Ha! The Amtrak thing can only work if Mussolini is re-incarnated.
It is just more suicidal acts that Germans are committing. they are along with the rest of the white race gleefully destroying themselves. the solar and wind projects in Germany are a disaster. the demons in charge have declared a war of extinction on the whites and western society. the only way to stop them is to kill them. nature has a solution for a species that has lost the will for survival…it is called extinction
This is probably the only time in human history that the target group has been trained to hate itself and is actively fighting for it’s own genocide.
Ain’t THAT the truth, Brandon!
People paying good money to send their kids to universities where they are taught that white people are the problem, and that one must not question anything, but just accept whatever dystopian nonsense they are told.
People pretending that the various military exploits we engage in around the world are somehow for “our safety” and “the good of the people” whom we are doing it to.
People believing that EVERYTHING is “racist” when it involves a white person making any distinction as to ethnicity or race- even if it’s just pointing out an obvious fact- but at the same time, justifying true racism when it is practiced by any and every other group. (They have no problem with a black who states that they don’t believe in mixed-race dating/marriage, but would SCREAM if a white person said the same)…
Of course, we could both go on and on- but why bother? I mean, this mentality that the first world has come to believe in (and it IS a religion) is just the pinnacle of ignorance and absurdity- but no one had the guts to stop it when it was in it’s infancy, because “the experts said” or “I gotta get the piece of paper to get [hushed tone of awe]a good job…
And this suicidal indoctrination began a long time ago. Sesame Street debuted in 1969, and was the first TV show to push multiculturalism….and it did so to CHILDREN!
I saw part of a YT video of a black guy whose only purpose seemed to be hating whites. Everything that a black person encountered that wasn’t to their liking was a white man’s fault. I have never heard so much hate in one place. I should have saved it just to post it so others could see it. This type of thing, if done by a white, wouldn’t even be on YT or anywhere else.
It’s quite entertaining listening to Jared Taylor being interviewed by leftist mainstream hacks. I love hearing them struggle to refute his (fact-based) arguments.
Here’s his latest interview with NPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqOhnVHnK0
That Jared Taylor interview is great. The reporter keeps trying gotcha questions and Taylor mercilessly shoots them down. In a polite manner of course.
TH, that was great. Joel was simply at a loss for words. Hello? uh uh uh It’s bad when you can hear his tiny gears whirring.
Isn’t that priceless?
It just goes to show you how dumb the left is. Now just imagine if more intelligent people stood up to them.
Anything that shows how dumb the left is does the same for the right, by default.
“They have no problem with a black who states that they don’t believe in mixed-race dating/marriage, but would SCREAM if a white person said the same”
Muhammed Ali said exactly this. Also against the Vietnam war.
I was only a kid whilst the Vietnam war was on- but I remember that anti-war movement….and am sure saddened that there exists nothing like that today. Even the loony lefties now love war.
(Did Ali ever get treatment for that “stings like a bee” thing? 🙂 )
Nunz, there’s a great price to pay for organizing war protests. It’s never mentioned in the press and they don’t want to know about it. I could write a book but nobody would ever know of it and I’d be crucified once again for my last time.
I agree, 8. Protests are pointless….but that there were lots of people who were against the war of the week, and that they were vocal about it- on a personal level, so that ya couldn’t avoid noticing, no matter who or where you were…..that was the difference.
Nunz, I didn’t think protests were pointless and still don’t. When you organize them though, you get an instant FBI record even though you’ve done nothing illegal. Of course we weren’t thinking along those lines but if we had, we might not have protested and without those, we’d probably still be there and as the Fugs said “spending $16,000 a second, snuffing gooks”. Big payoffs for a few and that’s what wars are all about.
yes it will go down in history as the first and only time the most advanced people willfully destroyed themselves. also whites in US the most heavily armed people in world history will be genocided without firing a shot. add that in
You’re are absolutely right SPQR. Good to see such people on this forum. Check out http://www.renegadetribune.com if you haven’t already done so.
It would have to be the second time, since Americans have been trying to kill themselves off with a multiplicity of stupidities for as long as they’ve been “freed.”
It’s not all bad, electric cars are creating jobs too, such as these slave children being forced to mine cobalt for battery packs:
I don’t think job loss is a good argument against anything, one way or another. As the times and demands change, the job balance will change too. The top level decision of forcing electric cars is good enough of a target without having to use job losses to argue against it.
I think job loss is a valid criticism – when it occurs contrary to market forces. When it is the result of government policies that destroy jobs.
Imagine if a decree were issued that forbade the construction of new homes because of the “carbon footprint” of new homes. All those contractors, suppliers, etc. unemployed by fiat. Screw everyone who needs a house!
I keep harping on the same thing because it is important to harp on it: EVs are not replacing non-electric cars because EVs are the superior product; they are being forced on the market by the government. They are a kind of industrial vampire, sucking the life out of healthy industries… for the sake of keeping the walking dead upright!
Yeah, good point. Market driven job losses are the right thing that needs to happen to keep it humming along efficiently, but job caused by fiat are a different animal.
My communist city in California just banned natural gas, and is forcing all new construction and remodels to go all-electric, even for stoves and water heaters. Sure, it adds tens of thousands to the costs of construction, and to offset the giant electric bills, they’re also forcing everyone to install rooftop solar. You have to get permits and pay for them for mandated things too!
“My communist city in California just banned natural gas,”
So move to Nevada, or Idaho or Wyoming.
eric, we should all be concerned about job loss. Look what NAFTA did to this country. It has never recovered and in fact, is much worse off than before. Perot was right with his “that loud sucking sound will be jobs going across the border”. He didn’t need a crystal ball, just the guts to point out the truth.
The way oil and their support companies use Mexican labor Would piss me off but they can’t find the labor ‘in house”. Hell, guys picking rocks with green cards made more money than most of the truckers. When I hauled rock off site, I often got out and helped pick rocks just for some exercise. I was a bit old to do it all day every day but there were days I found myself delivering loads of base material and using a pick and shovel to get it where it needed to be. You can’t work around a high-pressure gas line with equipment so we did it the old-fashioned way, bent backs. I guess I could have complained and it wouldn’t have taken much to tell the boss about it since he was right there beside me with his own shovel. He didn’t really expect me to bust ass but I’m not good at watching other people work.
8, I think they can find ‘in house’ labor just fine. They just prefer slave labor.
They’re not close to being slave labor. The soy boys are too soft and working every day regardless of the weather is too much for them. No a/c in the broiling summer heat and no heater in the winter. They’d rather live with the parents and work a dead-end job that’s inside.
8, I was referring to the mexicans being slave labor.
The gist of my point really being a rant against the idea that US companies can’t find US workers.
– Companies fire people here, and send jobs to a socialist/communist county with a slave wage labor force for cost savings.
– They import workers from those same countries for cost savings and to reduce wages for workers in the US/western state.
– They fire experienced, skilled Americans, and replace them with a foreigner (whom the American may have been forced to train) who can’t even speak the language, but who works for less.
– They require 3-5 years of experience and a college degree for an entry-level job.
And then they complain they can’t find good help. They complain of a skills gap. So many jobs left unfilled. We have no choice but to hire foreigners (from slave wage countries, interestingly)! We need more poor immigrants!
They could train, they could raise wages, they could rehire the people they fired, but they choose to support more immigration and foreign workers. Because they’re “hard workers”. They don’t need Thanksgiving off.
The soy boys who support these policies share blame with the companies as far as I’m concerned. Any job a latino or punjab is doing now was once done by a white American. It’s not JUST that young people by and large are shittier now.
A major part of the problem is the prohibition on the use of aptitude tests to determine suitability for employment. You see, not enough (certain) minorities were being hired, so aptitude tests had to go. (Griggs v. Duke Power). The concept of “disparate impact” reared its ugly head.
The “college degree” has become the new “gatekeeper”, even for jobs that should not require a “college degree”.
AHhh! I didn’t know that aptitude tests were outlawed, Ana!
That ‘splains a LOT!
Back in the 70’s, the sister of a long-time fambly friend worked for the phone company. Our fambly friend was explaining the hiring process at the time, as she was wanting to switch occupations and was going to apply at the phone co. (This was the BIG ‘UN on 42nd St. and 6th Ave in NYC).
She ‘splained how one had to take this huge aptitude test- which was not only necessarily an aptitude test, but a test to see if you would choose to do things the way that THEY want them done.
Back then, that huge phone company that served all of NYC and environs and a lot more of the northeast was competent and efficient- and the quality of service was better than anything one can get anywhere today- despite relying on antiquated equipment back then, and doing many things manually, instead of via computer or automation.
It was almost unheard of in those days to find a payphone that didn’t work (they were all owned by the phone co. back then).
But now we all have to suffer because Jamaal’s parent
sdid crack whikle he was in the womb, and stayed out partying every night while Jamaal raised himself in the free Section 8 apartment……
There’s going to be no recovery from the dark age which is now upon us, ’cause the culture from whence sprang enlightenment, civility and true advancement has been destroyed and replaced, and the millennia it took to get to that point of enlightenment from which we are now departing, can not be rebuilt overnight, or at all unless that culture could be re-established- which it can not be, (humanly, anyway) because it’s practitioners are now the very ones who are spearheading it’s demise.
Societies don’t re-embrace a religion which they have discarded en mass. And it was some of the basic core concepts of Christianity, which managed to filter through all of the other nonsense of the various churches, which built that culture that European whites used to embrace and practice. (and likewise which many working class Jews even embraced)
This is why Islam is still stuck in the Dark Ages; and now we have imported and propped-up that culture to replace our own, alongside secular humanism- and as we can see, the consequences are disastrous and swift.
In 3 or 4 decades, we’ve torn down what took nearly two millennia to erect.
Nunz, my wop friend, that was the most concise, well-said and depressing thing I’ve read in some time. I don’t disagree with a word of it, either.
Apathy plagues us. Go ahead and try to give a fuck. You’ll get nowhere fast.
Coming from you- the epitome of articulate eloquence and clear insightful thought- such a compliment would make winning a pullet surprise pale by comparison!
As for the realities of our present predicament though, I don’t despair. The cultural suicide and diluting of all “Christian” nations with adversarial barbarians was prophesied long ago- and it’s kind of amazing to see these things coming to pass before my eyes now- ‘specially considering that when I first started reading them 35 years ago, it didn’t seem possible things could degrade so quickly so as to actually see these things in my lifetime.
But the good news is, the nations of the world are falling- just as prophesied; and the prophesied uber-tyrannical global government will be a flash in the pan….and then the good stuff comes, when God will rule this earth!
Yes, Nunz, that was not only concise but frighteningly accurate. I don’t think I could have ever seen such a fast degradation of the entire world.
And there’s no one thing on which to blame it except maybe the internet. I believe it was going to happen, maybe not as quickly, without it. Did Marconi set it all in motion? Was it Gutenberg?
Mass insanity has taken over. Merkel, the elected leader of Germany, is adroitly destroying it and giving those would seek to destroy all non-Muslims the ammunition they need.
Nunzio, I’m always interested to read your view on this stuff. A thousand years ago the technological advantage was held in the Islamic world. Until a Fatwah (Abu Hamid Al Ghazali) ordered them to turn away from mathematics and science. After Newton and Leibnitz rediscovered calculus, it has been advantage West! What a shame the Christians sacked the library at Alexandria during the overthrow of Roman rule, as that basically put the West back about 1000 years until the Renaissance. We now seem to be sowing the the seeds of another destruction, With Science and reason being tossed aside by a new style of Fatwah
What usually seems to be forgotten in such discussions is the Chinamen. They have a civilization going back thousands of years and at this time there are about a billion of them ready to eat the West’s lunch.
Ya know, various civilizations throughout history have had rather high degrees of technology- much more so than is commonly reported today (Likely because as those societies died, the ones that replaced them did not recognize the remnants of technology for what it was, seeing as they were not yet as advanced- e.g. in the 19th century, someone finding a sealed vase-shaped object filled with carbon with a zinc rod running through it, would have no clue that it could be a dry-cell battery, because they had no clue what a dry-cell battery is- so when such was discovered in Egyptian ruins….they had no idea that those Egyptiabs were more technologically advanced than themselves- and thus it has been passed down to us that such societies were more primitive- when in-fact, we were only just recovering from what was lost in the Dark Ages.
But anywho, the point I’d like to make is that it’s not really the technology that is paramount- but rather the conduct, civility, and morality of the culture which matters.
Some of the technologies we have may be nice- more are really just convenient, rather than crucial- but for every “blessing” we derive from technology, we seem to pay a high price in curses.
I mean, yeah- we like our cars, but manufacturing them requires that there be a class of people kept poor enough to actually desire working in a noisy boring factory to produce them; and that an infinitesimal amount of money be spent to make infrastructure for them; and that the mobility which they have made so accessible has really helped to destroy community and family life, etc.
The world has never been more technologically advanced than it is now- nor on such a world-wide basis, and yet humanity is on the verge of suicide; and it is a hard thing just to find a quiote place to live where one can enjoy nature and be left alone.
Not that the technology itself is necessarily bad- but it sure seems to be enabling a faster and more far-reaching effect of human actions, and enabling the worst people- the psycho-tyrants who desire to rule others, to have powers that humans have never had before, and which they shouldn’t have.
Eightsouthman mentioned Gutenberg- and he is spot-on! But I would say that it wasn’t so much the technology of the printing press- but rather that it came about when it did, thus allowing some overthrow of a great tyranny, and a massive spreading of a benevolent culture.
I mean, I’d give more credit to Alfred The Great even, than all of the Newtons and Einsteens[sic] of the world, ’cause justice and peace and property rights are far superior to theories and bombs, or even refrigerators and terlits- as nice as those latter two may be! 😀
I can’t say that I know much of Muslim history- but I do respect the fact that at least they largely stay faithful to their book, and in so doing are really practicing a higher morality in many respects than most professing Christians(who don’t even know 95% of their Bible, much less are willing to die for it)- but consider the contrast: That Moe Hommid was boinking 8 year-olds and preaching Jihad just prior to old Alfred coming around with English Common Law, which did more for humanity for over a millennia- right up until the last few decades, until it was largely extinguished.
What has calculus done for us lately? I mean heck, the Phoenecian’s maps were not accurate, but their astronomy was pretty good, and managed to sail to where they were going, and came back again, right?
Certain technology is good. Certain bad. I think that the development of cars and machinery has been good for humanity in that it has expanded the reach of average people worldwide. It has helped people see more, do more and help out more. Cars and, say mechanized machinery (farm equipment, phones – the old style, and even television) don’t have the power to enslave us. Computers do. I can’t really think of any real good advancements since around 1970 that are worth a bucket of warm spit. In 1970, cars got us from point A to point B cheaply and quickly. Today, they do the same function except they cost 2x as much in real terms. They are overly complex with added pollution and safety equipment that add cost to the basic task.
I believe that as time went on, without all the computerized bullshit, we would have been just fine.
I say that recognizing that I am adding this to a website on the internet. Without the computerized crap, we might all still have jobs.
Nunz, do you remember a show on tv called Dinosaurs? It was fairly hilarious and there entire enlightened society was based on the refrigerator. Well, it makes sense to the degree they were at constant war with the “vegans”.
When their kids caught onto the scam of making war with the Vegans, they adopted hippie style dress and speech and had protests singing such classics as “All we are saying, is give peas a chance”. The last episode seemed fitting and still does to this day.
As my cousin said, “If there is a nuclear war, I hope DC is the first target”. No shit, that’ll give those who survive a better chance and we’ll get to see them get their version of “due process”.
To quote Trump “I say we take the guns first and worry about due process later”. WTG Trump, you lover of freedom.
Great point about the Chinks, Jason!
And imagine if they hadn’t been throttled by communism, which destroyed the real culture they once had!
Swamp, technology is neutral- it’s what we do with it or the degree to which we adopt it that is good or bad.
I think the problem is that cheap readily-available technology enables people to “take shortcuts”; to have powers that they may not be able to handle; and can lead many to scramble their economics.
I always notice how the Amish have managed to avoid almost all of the modern problems which have virtually destroyed human existence, largely due to their avoidance of technology. There are other groups who practice similar moral values, or even more stringent ones…but who embrace technology- and they don’t fare as well.
Or even Amish groups who have embraced tec hnology- they end up self-destructing soon after adopting technology.
I think a good part of the problem is that technology communalizes everything; it takes networks of people to make one component which must be assembled with other components which took networks of people to design, makle and sell; and then it takes yet more people to supply power/fuel/connections….etc. etc.
Then the need for standardization and infrastructure gives rise to the state or huge corporations…which feed on those who become dependent upon the technology…and round and round…and it never ends until it’s eggsplodes- which point we seem to be approaching now.
I’m working on installing the FTL drive in my Trans-Am; when one, it’ll work kinda like this … I Hope!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_4ULKpkLNc
8, I heard of that Dinosaurs show…but never actually saw it- it was after I had already given up TV, I believe.
Heh, yeah…Trump. Like that exCIA guy told ya…there is NO difference- just the little things that don’t matter, and the words they spew, so that the peons can think that there is a difference and that “their vote matters”.
Mr. steal the Syrain’s erl and keep sucking-off Is-ra-hell while crapping on everyone else, including his own people…. Mr. let’s start doing to S. America what we’ve been doing to the Mid East, and keep Assange in the gulag while Hillary and all of Epstein’s buddies and war criminals go scot-free….and let’s implement the total surveillance and control network of 5G while starting new cold-wars which may very well turn hot….and rule the world via sanctions…..
It’s hard to tell who lies more: Hitlery or Trump. Probably Trump, ’cause Hitlery had said she’d do many of the things which Trump has now done, while Trump said he wouldn’t. But it makes no difference- they are ALL tyrants and crooks- and in the end….everything continues just the same no matter who is elected.
Trump has given an unprecedented amount of resources and money to further militarize the police- more than Obozo and GWB combined (Not that anyone else wouldn’t have)- and no matter who is elected next year, you can bet that they are going to come after our guns…and the mechanism to do so has thus already been put in place.
“I’m working on installing the FTL drive in my Trans-Am;”
Eric, ever see South Park’s parody of “Heavy Metal”?
Features a 70s Firebird space ship in place of the 50s Corvette. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pma_mr1Uh_A
This made my day, Brent… thank you, sir!
Nunz, everything you said is dead on. Yep, to have an ex-CIA tell you they’ll both do the same thing SHOULD wake you up.
Good one eric. Last time I saw ZZ it was like listening to an album, quite unlike the first time I saw them in 71 which blew me away.
This stuff is over my head ! I just heard what sounded like The Eagles…but it says ZZ Top…..
Nunz, Take it easy. Take it easy. Don’t let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy.
But 8, I was trying to loosen my load! (I always overtighten it!)
Nunz, how many women did you have on your mind? I recently met one I didn’t know but got to know her awhile and then woke up…..dammit. 7 is beyond my keen.
The above is why I just said fokkitt and retired at 62. My last project was trying to oversee a bunch of south asian code monkeys.
Brandojin, that’s exactly Not what I said. If they’re making more than the average guy driving a truck, how is that slave labor? I think the companies paid for their housing also and per diem.
Well, BOTH could be slave labor.
HC, that would be close to the truth about driving a truck. They pay real operators the same as steering wheel holders.
I pissed off my last boss(county commissioner) schooling him on the various operations of a big rig. He’s a car mechanic but knows crap about the big stuff.
I asked one day after he’d replaced the air valves in the dash why he left the cruise control inoperable plus the passenger window control. He said “well, if you were running the interstate you might need cruise” showing his complete ignorance. I was getting it ready one morning and said I’d be a while cause I had to air a tire and with the cruise control being inoperative, I couldn’t speed up the engine. He said I’d just have to wait longer and then turned around later and asked why I wasn’t gone. Well, it didn’t make a shit since I could only make so many loads in a day but it pissed me off and I repeated not having a working cruise control. Had I enough time in a day to haul those loads and fix the cruise too I would have.
It wasn’t long we parted ways. Now he has some horrible hands if the road in front of my place is any indication.
And nobody cares that an operator is liable out there in any wreck as is the company if he works for one. You need to make good money unless you want to lose what you have accumulated over the years due to getting charged for some wreck you didn’t cause.
Couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve seen the trucker get charged for wrecks that were clearly the fault of fools in 4 wheelers. You need a forward and rearward facing cam these days just for a CYA situation.
Perot only had the guts to repay a favor to Daddy Bush by splitting the vote so that Clinton could get elected.
Perot was his own man. He got fucked at the debates while BC used the “and I’ll pass NAFTA that Bush wrote” and couldn’t be told from a Republican in the things he did.
Trump said he was for the little man. Since BC and BO neither were, everybody jumped ship knowing Hitlery certainly wasn’t. Of course Trump didn’t mean it but it just goes back to the old adage of how you can tell a politicians lying….when he speaks.
Eric you are correct , the elites and their government lackeys want to have control over you by restricting
Current IC engines can all be built with some minor changes to the fuel system to be dual fuel vehicles , BMW did this years ago. Two fuel tanks one for unleaded auto gas and the other liquid hydrogen.
On hydrogen IC engines do not produce any CO2. The technology is not new but, as you have said that is not the real reason they want to do away with IC engines.
Yes; I just hope enough people begin to understand … before it is too late.
Sadly, I believe that it already is too late (for the most part, anyway). The majority have been brainwashed ever since they were tots to believe that “uncle” always knows best, and therefore, have become dependent on “him” to provide everything for them. This explains why so many people are actually embracing their enslavement. Freedom would just be too overwhelming for them because they wouldn’t know what to do without “uncle” guiding them.
It is way too late. As a practical matter it’s really all over but the shouting. The fundamental problem is that most people don’t really want individual liberty. After all that carries with it the “terrible” burden of taking personal responsibility for one’s self.
The masses want someone else to be responsible for them, take care of them, and even do their thinking for them. Liberty and freedom are dangerous and frightening concepts to most when you get right down to it. Serfdom and even outright slavery are much more comfortable as long as the chains are not readily visible. I swear that most Americans at this point would swear an oath of fealty to a king if promised lifetime security.
Why do you supposed the 10th Plank of the Communist manifesto is “Free education for all children in government schools”? And how do they support it? By stealing OUR labor at gun point via the 1st Plank of the Communist manifesto making abolition of the ownership of private property and utilizing the rent for “public purpose”. Sound familiar? Well don’t pay the rent on a home or some property you may think you own and you’ll find out when they come with their bayonets and rifles to drive you off and sell it on the courtroom steps to someone who will pay that rent. Oh, sorry, “property taxes”. Welcome to the USSA.
I love how when ya point that out to the average schmoe (I used to, when I was younger) they don’t even deny it, or even pause to think; no, without missing a beat, they just say “But we have to have _____[schools; roads; IRS agents; free digs for those who can’t keep their legs closed; etc.]” -as if there is no other way to ever have anything(never mind assuming that all people want and use those things….).
There is no hope when people become so callous and morally depraved that theft and extortion- even at an institutionalized level and enforced by routine forfeiture of liberty, property and life.
Is that their “compassionate” Great Society”?
While it is true that the first sentence of the 10th plank was “Free education for all children in government schools,” it constitutes spin to ignore that the rest of the plank refers to the “(a)bolition of children’s factory labor in its present form, (and the) (c)ombination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.”
I’m guessing that if hydrogen-powered engines ever became successful, “uncle” would then induce panic by saying that they emit too much “di-hydrogen monoxide” (H2O [aka WATER!]). lol
You wouldn’t believe the exchanges I’ve had with people. They don’t even know that H2O is the other product of hydrocarbon combustion. They will actually tell me that there can be ‘too much’ CO2 and that makes it a pollutant. they will argue an analogy to drowning. That’s when I bring up H2O.
They’d probably be equally surprised if shown that most of the planet was covered with lush, green vegetation back when carbon dioxide was at 2000% of what it is today.
Well, BG….. That “harmless” H2O DID cause catastrophic climate change back in Noah’s day 😉
My guess is the economic command and control clown show, which includes not only EV car manufacturers(Tesla et al) but unicorns like Amazon(a company that lost money for 20 years and now makes money but at the thinnest of margins while still carrying massive debt) will all end spectacularly when one day the global money printing fest comes to an end.
The only reason Tesla is still around is because of the DOE bailout, when govco can no longer print money to socialize the losses of favored company/people and/or use said money to provide incentives to favored business models it’s going to be tough for crony’s that are “all in”.
Let’s all hope that happens sooner(in the next 5 years) rather than later(in the next 30).
I hope it all comes to a head sooner rather than later, too. Because it will be easier to rebuild. But if this goes on for another several decades, it may take centuries to recover from it.
I am so happy to see that some of the people that are out there see the big picture and the real culprits behind all of this mess. The International Banksters. I tell people all the time if you can tell me what the national debt is IN, I’ll send you 100 pounds of it free of charge and even pay the cost of shipping. To which their keyboard goes dead silent.
ty, I love both Skynard and Frank Frazetta btw.
It is easy to make lots of money on volume instead of margin while maintaining profits too low to have to pay income tax.
“dung credits”…thanks for a great laugh to start the day. As usual, the liberals have no idea of the infrastructure needed to create and charge several hundreds of millions of EV’s. They just take some inane idea and run wild with it because it is anti-capitalist, anti-freedom and fits some agenda they have been dumbed down to take as being real. Europe is on the verge of a massive financial blow up that the Marxist central bankers are doing everything they can to keep hidden behind the curtain. I am praying that Europe becomes a basket case sooner than later and all this global warming nonsense will be decommissioned. It is the insane people we call leaders or think of as smart, that are destroying the world.
Europe can afford its extravagant social programs because its defense is provided by the “good ol’ uSA.
Not to mention exhorbitant gas tax.
How will they pay for “free healthcare” when people are no longer buying gas???
The masses of useful idiots haven’t thought that out.
Government is going to lose out on a whole ton of revenue as they make motoring a rich man’s hobby again.
My guess is they are going to tax the crap out of electricity. People will be energy rationed one way or another. That’s their goal. To push people back to where they were centuries ago.
“Smart meters” are the first step. DTE (Detroit Edison) is already offering “free” smart thermostats. To obtain one, you must agree to “time of day” electricity pricing along with an emergency default “penalty rate” of 0.95 per kwH at Detroit Edison’s discretion. Definitely not a good deal…
the will raise the electric tax…
watchthe movie “soylent green”..thats how they want us to live
I’d do that right now if I had it to watch.
You can watch it at least 5 places for $2.99 by typing “watch soylent green” into Google.
I don’t use Google and try hard not to mention the name.
Can you name a search engine that isn’t powered by Google that you can find anything on?
DuckDuckGo uses hundreds of search engines and you can keep it from using Google.
watch soylent green for free here:
Thanks dbb. Now if I could just get it to the tv. I’ll work on that.
You probably won’t be able to without Google.
On “dung credits” one of my hobbies when I was in college was to go down to a corner of the library basement where there were bound magazines going back to the 1890s. A good selection of technical publications and general interest technology stuff. The pollution problem from horses was no joke. The amount of dung, urine, and dead horses in cities on daily basis was staggering. It was a real actual pollution and health problem. Government the way it works today would do something self serving like dung credits.
I see a spectacular failure, at least here in the US. It’s different in Europe. Basically, except for the Alps, it’s like the northeastern US times three. Cities are closer together and trains can take you pretty much anywhere. That doesn’t work here in the US outside of some areas. The way I see it, any company outside of Tesla that tries to go all electric here will end up bankrupt. And Tesla would go under if the ill-gotten money stops coming in.
I don’t much care for Trump personally, but I’m really hoping we get 4 more years of the Orange Man. At least he can delay the inevitable for a while longer.
Amen, Jim – agreed.
I have decided to do everything I can to aid the Orange Man. Whatever his deficits, those arrayed against him are the mortal enemies of whatever shreds of liberty (and sanity) remain in this country. I’d like another four-year respite, too.
Local clowns think that wind turbines and solar panels will power their electric cars. It’s hard to fathom their stupidity. In this bitterly cold state many of the wind turbines were shut down last winter at times because they can’t operate in subzero temperatures. And solar? The days are so short and the sun so low on the horizon in the winter that you’d be better off charging your car with a dynamo and your exercycle.
Sooner or later people will butt up against hard reality and either overthrow the morons or submit to the long ride down the rabbit hole.
So, will this asinine thinking also be transferred to vehicles used by the militaries around the world too?? Get rid of diesel powered tanks, troop carriers and ships. Just imagine if these loons forced the military to convert to battery powered planes and ICBMs. We’d also have to do away with gunpowder used in ammunition and replace them with “Ray” guns that will never be invented but real in the wackos insane mind. Dictators and those wanting to be dictators will come after you in 3 phases: your freedom, your property, and eventually your life. Environmentalists are using the environment as a front to push their real agenda; absolute control of populations.
They’ve been living in large rabbit holes for decades already. Why change anything?
There’s one more angle that occurred to me today. The US just recently overthrew the government of Bolivia because Lithium.
Now that America is now petroleum independent, wars for oil are no longer a salable pretext. With forcing everyone to move to EVs, we’ll now have wars for rare earth metals.
When you see all the misery this guy goes though to get a partial charge on his Tesla you wonder if they just made up the charging time estimates? Jump to spoilers: Just about every charger installed, even ones that are wired for 220V, aren’t anywhere near up to the task of charging in 45 minutes. Even the non-Supercharger 50 Amp DC charger won’t charge as fast as a Tesla charging station. When he started talking about “15 miles per hour” I thought it was about how fast you could go, not how fast you could charge. So even on a 220 VAC charger it will still take about 20 hours to fully recharge a depleted battery pack. Not good news for your ditzy girlfriend who ignores the gas gage…
Apparently these idiots aren’t concerned with a “full” charge. Just enough to get them a few miles because even the charging stations won’t let them hang around too long. Batteries don’t like doing things at half charge. This will have a detrimental effect on them. If they expect you to fully charge at home then they must not expect you to do any serious traveling outside the metro area. How would anyone like to stop every 17 miles for a charge to go another 17. This is so screwed up it’s laughable people are actually doing it. And am I correct in that you NEED a smart phone? I don’t have one nor do I want one. A complete waste of money.
I’ve been run off the road by folk with a need for speed, (of course they’re trained), only to watch them whip into a McDonald’s Drive Through. What would the temperament of these folks be if they had to wait several hours just to get enough charge to get home or to their yobs? lol…..
Well that true on both the top and bottom end. Lithium battery chemistry has the longest pack life if the battery can be kept near but not over 80% and not depleted below 20%.
Even so without the SuperCharger, which is not recommended for daily use because of the damage done to the battery, these longer range model take more than a single evening to reach 80%.
This is generally fine for most commutes, but kills the EV for distance trips.
“Not good news for your ditzy girlfriend who ignores the gas gage…”
EVs require the owner/operator to be smart. No doubt about that,
gas works better for people of low IQ.
Trouble is, only people with low IQ’s buy EVs. Who else would pay MORE for LESS convenience and less durability, and no added benefits?
My chevy volt is very convenient. It’s 10 years old still looks good, runs good
and it’s awesome on the highway ramp and at a red light. I get to plug in at home and nowadays at more and more locations where we shop.
Oh yeah, added benefit… I don’t buy oil from Terrorists in the Middle East.
I like the Volt, too – precisely because it’s not an electric car.
Most volt owners were running 90% electric, which is what
killed the vehicle. GM saw it as cheaper to add some more
battery and a DC charge circuit via DCFC/SAE-CCS
then to add the motor generator.
It’s a pity because I liked the volt but, it was always a bridge technology. Improvements in battery tech and cost were going to kill the hybrids and the Plug-ins. It just happened
a lot faster then anyone thought.
TSLA is reporting battery cell costs at $108/KWH, and that’s just death to gasoline
Much as I like the Volt, what killed it is that it cost too much relative to the low cost of gas. One could buy an otherwise similar car – such as a Camry – for $10,000 less. You would never “save money” by driving the Volt. So why buy one? Yes, the drivetrain is technologically interesting. But does it offer any meaningful cost/convenience/performance advantage? Keep in mind, as well, that Chevy lost money on each one; the price was less than what it cost to make – as is true of all electric cars, by the way. If the real cost to make – plus a profit – were reflected by the MSRP, almost no one would buy any of these things. They are just too expensive.
And if you believe anything Tesla “reports,” I have a bridge you may be interested in.
And even if they get EV costs down to parity with IC cars, EVs will still cost time. By what twisted reasoning is it desirable to swap a car that can be fully refueled in less than five minutes, almost anywhere, for a car that takes at least 30-45 minutes to recover a partial charge and which requires cumbersome equipment on top of that?
The bottom line is EVs are being forced onto the market… which they have to be, because they are inferior in terms of cost to own, versatility and service life.
It’s not debatable.
“But does it offer any meaningful cost/convenience/performance advantage?”
Way better torque 0-30, and excellent acceleration 0-50.
Way nicer driving. No vibration from the steering wheel, fine digital control. Rush hour traffic is easy, when I can drive with one pedal. Half the work of gas, let alone vs a manual.
No fumes most of the time. No gas smell.
cheaper to run 4 cents/mile vs 12/mile Direct.
Far fewer oil changes, I typically change the oil every two years because that’s what the manual specifies.
Less maintenance. I pulled the disk brakes at 6 years and they were factory new. I probably could have put them back on, but, the pads are only certified for 7 years, so I swapped them out.
Coolant. I get a coolant flush at 5 years, i’m about to do another one. It’s a complex procedure, but it’s every 5 years.
Charging at home… I love that. Drive home, plug in, go have a beer.
But, I suppose you like the fumes and paying more per mile.
Who doesn’t like the heady aroma of octane? Or the sweet scent of a mechanical diesel rattling away? Or the sybaritic pleasure of feeling the life in the machine through the wheel? What kind of a soulless cretin thinks these great pleasures of civilized life are unworthy of celebration. Death brings with it the cessation of all these sensations and it comes far too soon for we who live, and far too late for those who would deny them.
Excellently said, Ernie! An EV is like eating a power bar vs. a ribeye.
Nope. Compare your Volt’s numbers to those of the much cheaper – and quicker – TDI diesel-powered Golf. Which can go 700 miles on a tank, by the way. Better mileage over that distance, too – as the diesel’s efficiency remains the same while your Volt’s efficiency collapses after about 50 miles (the EV/battery range) at which point your Volt averages about 35 MPG vs. 50-plus for the diesel.
The TDI will also go 250,000-plus miles before it needs any expensive repairs. Your Volt will very likely need an expensive battery pack long before then.
“Vibration from the steering wheel”? That only happens if the car has bad motor mounts or a suspension problem. Your Volt has a suspension, too. When it wears, you’ll get the same vibration. But no modern car in good mechanical order vibrates through the steering wheel.
“Fumes?” If you were talking about a poorly tuned ’67 Newport, ok. But no modern IC car produces any noticeable “fumes.” This exaggeration of yours is one of many used by EV Cultists to create a false narrative about IC cars.
Paying more per mile? Another sleight of hand used by EV Cultists. Sure, you pay less per mile. But you paid a lot more per car. You’re either innumerate or disingenuous. Which is it?
PS: You put gas in your Volt. Which gas “smells” the same as the gas I put in my truck.
Yep, Eric! My vehicles are 20 years old….no vibration through the steering wheels….. (I never let my brake rotors get that worn!)
eric, I was going to address the vibration through the steering wheel. You know I drive big rigs and operate heavy equipment. At no time do I get vibration through the steering wheel.
The only drawback to a diesel these days is the turbos are balanced so well and the intake wheel is structured so as not to whistle……and I love to hear that big turbo spool up. I can just about guess what HP diesel I’ve got in a rig just by listening to the turbo.
I used to drive a dual turbo Cummins with 750 hp. It was strange but nice to hear it spool up and then spool up again.
The first time I drove it, it was idling and I was told to “go”….so I went as Forrest would say.
Once on the road and putting my foot into it I was surprised when it spooled up the second time…..and I liked it.
Both the Volt and the Bolt are ridiculously expensive compared to an equivalent ICE. However, the base price of the Volt was about $3,000 less than the Bolt. If people were driving 90% EV with the Volt, assuming 12,000 miles per year and 36 MPG while in ICE mode, that’s about 33 gallons of gas per year for the Volt. At $3.00 per gallon, that’s about $100.00 per year. I checked on a Bolt forum and most people were getting between 3 and 4 miles per kWh, with the average being about 3.7. So, at 12.5 cents per kWh, that’s an extra $40.00 per year for the Bolt vs. Volt in electricity. So, the Volt costs about $60.00 per year more to operate than the Bolt ($465.00 vs. $405.00). It would take 50 years to break even here.
Unfortunately, the immoral, cronyist interventions (subsides, mandates, CAFE standards, etc…), pervert the market and artificially reduce the price of EV’s, which makes it impossible to do a rational cost/benefit analysis of a car like the Volt, vs. a pure EV. Still, absent such market perversions, those truly interested in an efficient, “clean” vehicle would be much better served by a car like the Volt vs. any possible pure EV. If one has not been duped by the climate religion, the Bolt doesn’t come close to the Volt in terms of practicality or environmental impact.
– A pure EV like the Bolt requires a 240V home charger to achieve a full charge overnight, the Volt does not.
– A pure EV will always be inferior to an ICE in terms of range and emergency use.
– Neither the grid capacity nor the infrastructure exists to address the needs of EV owners if even 10% of cars on the road are EV’s.
– The cost and environmental impact of creating this infrastructure must be factored into any honest analysis. If history is any guide, actual cost and impact will exceed original estimates by orders of magnitude.
It is irresponsible and absurd to assume that switching to EV’s will produce a cleaner world. Nobody is capable of assessing the real world impact of this switch. Also, the fraudulent insistence that EV’s are clean and produce no emissions, coupled with the politically driven incentives toward EV’s, diverts resources from much more promising technology to that which pleases the political elite.
You consider the Volt to be a bridge to a pure EV future. This will probably happen, but would not without the perverse incentives created by either ignorant or nefarious politicians. If one is concerned about the environment and wants a practical, functional and efficient vehicle, your Volt is light years ahead of any pure EV. Also, per Bastiat, imagine the unseen potential of this technology, which won’t happen due to market perversion. Unlike the delusions of the EV fanboys (500 mile range with a 5 minute charge, a future of cheap electricity even though the infrastructure to deal with a huge increase in demand does not exist, etc…), the technology to vastly improve the efficiency, functionality and even performance of a car like the Volt, is feasible.
I even like the Volt! The Volt made sense….which is why they stopped making it.
My Chevy Volt is also very convenient. I never have to plan my route when traveling over the combined range of the vehicle. If I choose to plug in, I can. (Like I once charged at a hotel on the road, and I actively looked for a charger when I needed a nap.)
Whether internal combustion or electric “works better” ought to be decided by the market. The fact that EVs are being forced on the market says a lot about which actually works better, eh?
markets are not pristine or created by God and handed down by Moses on stone tablets. Governments enforce and create market rules. Things like limits on alcohol sales, or Marijuana restrictions. Used to be when I was living in Connecticut, the state prohibited most retail sales on Sunday. Something about making sure most everyone had a day off.
But, the market for gas cars wasn’t pristine either. The feds had been regulating railroad prices hard in the War era and built most of the gasoline infrastructure using war bonds.
Meanwhile we now buy oil from Terrorists, so I’m quite happy to not
be supporting various oil gangs in the mid-east
And government interferences with things like marijuana (and alcohol) sales are just as indefensible. The government – if it has any claim to legitimacy at all – derives that legitimacy from protecting people’s rights. Nothing more. If I wish to work on Sunday -and someone wishes to pay me – government has no right to interfere. If I wish to grow pot – and sell it to people willing to buy it – that is between myself and the others involved. We cause no harm to others by our actions – but government harms us by interfering with (and punishing) ours.
Your arguments in re railroads and so on are specious. The first successful (mass market) car – the Model T – was designed when most roads were rutted, unpaved and had been such since the colonial era. The combustion engined car doesn’t require subsidization – or mandates. The EV does.
PS: The “we buy oil from terrorists” is simply false. The United States produces almost all its own oil now.
And: The “terrorists” don’t force me to buy oil; the government terrorizes me by stealing my money and attempting to control my life.
“The “we buy oil from terrorists” is simply false. The United States produces almost all its own oil now.”
Terrorists sell oil into the global market.
We buy into the global market.
and if you willingly buy oil from terrorists, well, that’s on you.
It’s pretty despicable to call everyone who sells oil “terrorists.” And I reiterate the same fact the cost me several “conservative” friends:
The “terrorists” terrorize me far less than the government does. Example: The local terrorists just decreed I “owe” them 8.45 percent more each year in extorted payments in order to be allowed to continue living in the home I paid for 15 years ago. No “terrorist” has ever done anything remotely as actually terrorizing to me.
eric, there were 16 foreign terrorist acts involving US citizens but not all in the US the last year counted(2017 I believe). That makes the odds of being affected by a terrorist(s) 25,000 times more unlikely than getting struck by lightning. But don’t say that out loud, you will be hutted by the feds, state and locals.
And about 1000x more unlikely than being shot by a roided out cop.
I love too, how we frick with their countries- like overthrowing their governments and installing dictators who will serve us; bomb them; invade them; enable, subsidize and aid their enemies etc. -and then when they muster the least little retaliation…..we label THEM as terrorists…..
Our LEOs are now using the same model to turn dissenters into terrorists, deserving of hard federal time instead of a simple summons and fine for…failure to get a permit to exercise our freedom of speech.
“markets are not pristine or created by God and handed down by Moses on stone tablets”.
Nobody, except critics of free markets indulging in caricature, makes claims like this. Markets allow the preferences of people to emerge through free and voluntary interaction. All people are flawed and markets cannot produce “perfection”. Nor can any other system as there is no such thing. In short, markets produce outcomes favored by those in the market. Regulated markets produce outcomes favored by a class of deeply disturbed pathological control freaks who are so shockingly arrogant that they believe that their preferences are so much better than “ours” that it is acceptable to use force to impose them on us. These people are known as politicians.
“Governments enforce and create market rules. Things like limits on alcohol sales, or Marijuana restrictions”.
Governments co-opt and interfere with markets for their own ends. The “rules” they create pervert outcomes, advantage politically favored businesses and allow narcissistic sociopaths to impose their preferences on us. This repellent behavior is always cloaked in virtue and sold as being good for us. You seem to find this practice unobjectionable.
“Meanwhile we now buy oil from Terrorists, so I’m quite happy to not
be supporting various oil gangs in the mid-east”.
You are a Statist and thus support the terrorist manufacturing machine known as US foreign policy. The recruitment division of this machine, the US military, is the single largest terrorist oil gang, and polluter, in the world. You support this; driving a Volt does not absolve you of responsibility.
Don’t forget the bipartisan fascist programs known as trade deals, which act to constrain free trade as much as legislative actions do.
***”“we buy oil from terrorists” “***
No, we usually steal it from them- which is why they become terrorists.
Love having guys like you for back-up!
Well the Railroads themselves were nothing more than a speculative scheme that benefited insiders on both stock and land purchases. It was a massive cash grab superseded only by the bailout of Wall Street when their derivatives imploded on them. Both Carnegie and Rockefeller fortunes were built on them until Rockefeller found a use for pipelines and a kerosene waste product we now call gasoline.
People do forget though the massive subsidy that became known as the National Defense Highway System (Interstate) built by mulcting consumers for each purchase of gasoline.
Then they overbuilt the system with no thought to maintenance and everyone looked the other way because the ride was smoother and we could go fast.
And don’t forget the massive land grabs for both the railroads and the highways. Hell, Uncle even used the cavalry to take land for railroad companies while subsidizing them!
And dont ya know, they “helped” all of them poor people who were dwelling in substandard housing by clearing big swaths through cities for their highways! Hey, at least some of those highways were elevated, so the displaced residents could live under them…..
Man! One atrocity after another since our inception, eh? All justified by ever striving for “progress”. Are we there yet?
We’ve made more technological progress in the last 75 years than in the rest of recorded history combined- and yet this same period of “progress” has seen the killing of more of humanity than ever before; the enslavement of mankind; and destruction of cultures worldwide, with the distinct possibility that we may destroy all life on earth or render the earth unihabitable via our weaponry and energy production.
The oil isn’t purchased from terrorists. The US federal government supports oppressive regimes in the middle east. Those oppressive regimes create desperately poor people. Those desperately poor people are convinced by those with an agenda to become terrorists. The US federal government reacts by bombing these people which of course then convinces them even more to become terrorists.
****”Electric cars are being used to eliminate cars – and eventually, the car industry.”****
Spot-on, Eric! That’s what I think every single time I hear about one of the [non]car companies sealing their own demise by abandoning ICE cars and embracing EVs.
When the dust settles, and the EV wet-dream is over, all of these companies will be gone.
“When the dust settles, and the EV wet-dream is over, all of these companies will be gone.”
No, not all of them. I mean, someone has to continue making them for our dear leaders, right?
Our dear leaders and owners can afford to have cars made from scratch for them. Every part hand made like in the olden days when private automobiles were only for the rich. The wealthy will simply utilize the already passed small volume and replica car exemptions. They will be appropriately expanded so they still can get theirs.
As extreme as that sounds, it’s increasingly obvious that’s what’s intended. When you can buy an exemption from things like “emissions,” “safety” and “gun control” laws, you know the object of the exercise isn’t “emissions” or “safety” or “gun control.” It is to control the masses who cannot afford the exemptions. Who lack the monetary and political pull.
I pray enough Americans will wake up before it’s too late.
It already is too late, Eric. Have you been on any car forums lately? If not, it’s probably a good thing you haven’t. The amount of support for all of this shit from “enthusiasts” is simply appalling.
Given that the Sociopaths In Charge can force people to do anything that pleases them, they can always force the manufacture of whatever vehicle they choose, by whomever they choose, for whatever price they choose.
Nobody can force a free man to do anything. The most they can do is kill him. What is needed is integrity and courage, not defeatism.
But how will they go anywhere, since the huge networks of roads and infrastructure can not possibly be maintained if no one’s using them?
That’s when you are issued a shovel and told to engage in some national service. But it is more likely they will just have us building and maintaining helipads since that way they don’t have to see the proles out the window.
Want to know what’s in store for us…. The following video Vietnam Street Scenes 2018 shows basically the same situation where most cannot afford cars. This is the scenario our politicians want here. Many of the vehicles in the video are gas driven but it won’t take too much imagination to pretend they are electric.
The dumbass manufactures DO have a choice. They could threaten to shut down ALL manufacturing. Trust me,,, Revolt won’t be too far off. So they’re in cahoots with Corpgov on all this.
Our one biggest problem dealing with the indoctrination that people won’t touch is the Education System. From Cradle to University they are bombarded with Marxist BS. By the time they are in college there is no way to change their attitudes. Just look at the mayhem in colleges today,,, all due to the propaganda taught in lower grades.
You know something is out of wack when “schools” stop teaching cursive and start teaching anal sex and transgenderism. You know something is wrong when people are good with invading Muslim countries because of female mutilation while over here they are allowing toddlers that have a hard time choosing what kind of ice cream they want to choose their sex, removing their biological organs and/or treating them with untested drugs to stop development.
Until government is out of schools the lunacy will continue.
Let’s not forget the “male genital mutilation” that is relatively commonplace here in the “good ol’ uSA. Circumcision IS “male genital mutilation”, not unlike “female genital mutilation” because a healthy body part is removed without good reason.
At least, in most cases, the “deed is performed in a hospital under sanitary conditions, unlike the jewish custom of the dirty “mohel” fellating the infant after the deed is done. Sick…
Both “male genital mutilation” and “female genital mutilation should be outlawed. PERIOD!
Those who wish it should leave the country…
Circumcision is an interesting subject regarding prejudice toward the existent. Rationalizations.
I’m not cut and on every occasion throughout my life when the subject has come up, the cut KNOW that being cut is better. They have a long list of problems that circumcision apparently prevents. It never seems to dawn on them that I have a lifetime of experience with having a foreskin without issue and probably am in a better position to know what having one entails.
Arrogance is the death of understanding.
I must respectfully disagree with you assertion that being “cut” has advantages. Yes, with a foreskin, there is more to clean and keep clean; those who have intact foreskins are aware of that fact.
I maintain that cutting off a healthy body part with the “justification” that it is “cleaner” or “easier to take care of” is still no excuse to promote this barbaric practice.
I realize that there are those men who have problems with foreskin retraction, in which case, circumcision is indicated, but for the majority of men, it is totally unnecessary.
When a toddler wants to change his her sex it is against the law in most States to counsel him her against it. In schools you would be fired. Nothing saddens me more than watching the endless line of traffic where parents are dropping off their young at the local gulag where they learn being caged is okay,,, government goons with guns are okay,,, demented lifestyles are good while families are bad,,, etc.
This Electric Vehicle thing is a part of this mass propaganda being put out. It’s fed by the Global Warming hysteria BS which is propagated in Gov schools at all levels. Its all about control. Logic will never win against feelings which is why women and children are indoctrinated first and why White males are demonized. They are the ones most apt to call BS on all this.
“where they can be controlled by those who know what is best for us”
Always the fun one with the clueless cud chewers,
Q: Why do we need government?
A: Because people need to be ruled or they would be corrupt and lawless.
Q: So people are not fit to rule themselves?
Q: What is government comprised of?
A: What do you mean? (sensing the trap)
Q: Well, are politicians people?
A: Um, well, yes.
Q: So are politicians immune to being corrupt and lawless, unlike those they rule ostensibly to prevent such.
At this point their anger usually ends any further interaction. Because of course the reality shown is all your fault, for showing them.
A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned.
Besides the INJUSTICE of forcing EVs on us, there are PRACTICAL considerations here too. In case anyone missed it, our society isn’t set up for a large, carless population. There are pockets of the US where one can live without a car (NYC, Chicago, Boston, or San Francisco come to mind), but in most of the US, a car is a NECESSITY! While we have bus service in our area, it’s not very good; it doesn’t run that often, and it doesn’t go to that many places. What are people going to do then?
Many of the environmentalist zealots think cars are inefficient. They love to point out that most cars are only used an hour or so a day total, and that they sit the rest of the time. Wouldn’t “ride sharing” be so much more efficient a use of resources? This article by one of Lyft’s founders encapsulates this mentality: https://medium.com/@johnzimmer/the-third-transportation-revolution-27860f05fa91
Sorry, but I like the FREEDOM my car gives me! I like being able to go where I want, when I want to go. If we had comprehensive public transit that ran 24/7, that would be one thing. Even so, I like the ability to move about on MY schedule, not on someone else’s…
BTW, I make my comments as an EV fan. I would like to see the technology improve. Are they better than the EVs of yesteryear were? Yes, but they’re not yet ready for prime time yet. Batteries need to charge faster, offer more range, and last longer; EVs as a whole need to cost less. Alejandro Agag, founder of Formula E, has said as much. You won’t find a bigger EV advocate anywhere, but even AA realizes that EV’s need to be more capable and cost less before they can compete with ICEVs. He says that, until EVs equal or exceed ICEVs on these fronts, they won’t sell.
Too late. The Sociopaths In Charge have in hand a method to control, and they’re going to run with it. They are, after all, insane.
Current EV power source is pathetic. Lithium is ALREADY peaking; what we were always told oil would do someday. CIA has overthrown an elected government to secure reserves in Bolivia.
CAFE promotion, and subsidies of EVs has absolutely nothing to do with environment, and all to do with tyranny.
In re EVs and tyranny. Yes. I realized this – fully faced it – several years ago after trying to understand why, if the object is to curtail harmful emissions without crippling the ability of average people to own and drive private cars, there could be any objection to modern IC cars (and hybrid cars) which are – not exaggerating – within 98 percent of being “zero emissions” vehicles. Then they began to describe C02 as an “emission,” which had never been done before. Why? Then it dawned on me: Because C02 is their trump card. Because you cannot build IC cars that don’t “emit” C02. Having been successfully thwarted in their effort to get rid of IC (and hybrid) cars by demanding essentially “zero emissions” – which was achieved – they came up with what cannot be achieved without converting to electric cars. And EVs, as we know, are a stalking horse for no cars.
The C02 thing and “climate crisis” are about imposing global authoritarian collectivism, nothing less, using a relentlessly promoted fear campaign about a problem that doesn’t exist.
And you know what else emits CO2? Humans. About 5% of every human exhalation is CO2.
First they come for the IC vehicles, then they come for us.
Ultimately it’s all about population control.
And animals! Animals emit CO2! So after they kill all of the humans, they must kill all of the animals, so that the world can continue to be safe for the survival of rocks!
Public transport. Carpool. LOL.
Here in BC they put in the Skytrain in the mid 1980s. Great! Get blasted at a club in Vancouver and you can hop aboard the Skytrain and get back to Surrey no drinking and driving issues. Oh wait. Basically all public transit shuts down before the bars do. Even now only a couple of not too convenient night buses run.
Another well thought out and implemented plan.
Take a look at a map of the Lower Mainland of BC. Massive sprawl with people making 2hr commutes. When I lived there 30 years ago, “getting people out of cars” an onto PT or carpooling was a huge issue and they had a plan. A plan that would solve the crushing congestion. 30 years on, crushing congestion and I am guessing they still have the same plan.
Though the idiots in charge decided that putting another bridge into Vancouver would solve the congestion issues. Seems no thought was given to the fact that there were already too many cars in the downtown core and insufficient parking for those. Not sure how putting another feeder into the city was to help with that.
One thing seems sure in my time on this planet. The supposed problem solvers who rule us are a very large part of the problem.
“One thing seems sure in my time on this planet. The supposed problem solvers who rule us are a very large part of the problem.”
Exactly! A “problem solver’s” job is to create problems that don’t exist so that we become perpetually dependent on the government.
It is very difficult for wheelchairs people to get to the bus stop, usually far away from their home. Same with someone who has a limp, or who is elderly, or who has any number of health problems solved by having an affordable automobile. And what happens during a natural disaster when all forms of public transit are disabled? Like trees falling over the roads. Ever see a bus move around that like a car can? Will an electric car be useful when power goes down for several days due to a storm?
There’s more. Those of us who are engineers know more about batteries, electric vehicles, they way they work and their shortcomings.
Batteries do not work well in cold climates. They lose range and are inefficient. Add to that, heat for the passengers, headlights, other lights, power steering, safety systems and other systems also drain batteries.
Electric vehicles may work OK in southern California, but in the midwest and north country, they simply are impractical and will not work.
I always thought that gas-electric or diesel-electric was the way to go, not full electric. I don’t know why that is not being considered, I’m not talking about hybrids but cars powered by electric motors that get electricity from relatively small motors on board the car.
The reason? Because they (hybrids like the Chevy Volt) don’t restrict mobility and are still affordable. The whole point of forcing EVs down our throats is to make cars increasingly unaffordable, so that more and more people give up driving – and to control the mobility of those who still do.
It took me a long time to figure this out. Because the evil it represents is damned hard to come to grips with.
Besides that, when you run out of charge, it is just not possible to hike to the nearest charging station & haul back a gallon of electrons to get yourself home.
But don’t you know that someone drove a Tesla 315 miles with accessories running and it worked fine?
How does one go about supplying those enclaves of walkability?
Conveyor belt? Railroad? Canal? Catapult? Star Trek transporter?
No of course not. Without internal combustion engine equipped transportation these urban utopias would quickly turn to urban war zones over provisions. Sure, big trucks do most of the heavy lifting, but so do small vans and I’ll bet even cars for some small items like jewelry and celebrities.
We don’t need farms, factories, trucks, and railroads. We can just get whatever we need from the store, silly!
” I like being able to go where I want, when I want to go. If we had comprehensive public transit that ran 24/7, that would be one thing. Even so, I like the ability to move about on MY schedule, not on someone else’s…”
I believe they call that Uber/Lyft/Taxi.
It’s quite convenient, if i want to save a buck or two, I walk down to the best corner for the driver,
or they pick me up in front of my house. Once I deduct the cost of parking in the city, it’s really a good deal.
Uber/Lyft doesn’t quite do it….
One has to stand there and wait for their ride.
One has to have a smartphone (something which I will never have)
One has to travel in the company of others (at least a driver)
It only works in fairly densely populated areas.
The price of a ride will increase dramatically in the future (or the services will just die) as drivers realize that they aren’t making squat; and as car ownership becomes more expensive.
As private transportation/car ownership becomes more rare….so do rideshare drivers/cars.
None of this BS is sustainable. They are just stop-gap temporary solutions.
In fairness, the personal automobile doesn’t quite do it in his limited though real scenario. I could get downtown and park at my convenience, but if I choose to imbibe an AGW stands ready to endanger my freedom, my wallet, and my life on the chance my impaired driving injures someone.
I lost one of my favorite people to a drunk driver. But the way the government chooses to deal with it punishes everyone collectively. Being drunk, sleepy, or stuck in stop-and-go traffic are the only reasons I would consider a computer driving me once all the bugs are worked out 50 years from now.
If the Federal Reserve keeps the liquid cash flowing what we will is deadly automated cars replacing human drivers who up until now have taken all the risk. Given how things go we will likely end by seeing ride-share companies relieved from any legal responsibility and the taxpayers will fund healthcare for any injuries that occur and provide a death benefit for those that the robots kill.
That way those shysters can continue to externalize all their costs and have the liability of their now capital-intensive business model paid for by everyone else while they roll in the dough like Scroodge McDuck.
Today’s substandard electric cars are a rabid environmentalist’s dream as they will force the “unwashed” populace out of their cars, and in to buses and trains for long-distance (and not so long-distance) travel. In addition, bicycles for short distances will be the norm as well.
This falls into the plan to move people out of rural and suburban areas and place them in soviet-style high-rise apartments in cities, where they can be controlled by those who know what is best for us.
Now you’ve got it.
And what will be the use of (neutered) humans quartered in battery cages?
Answer: Parts bodies.
Trains are a very viable and efficient modes of long distance transport. But at least in the Midwest they are being abandoned and torn out. A society interested in survivability and freedom wouldn’t be doing such things. The conclusion is left to the student as an exercise….
Trains were only viable when the average person did not have cost-effective access to personal transportation. That’s why private railroads died when the automobile came on the scene- so now, the only way to have trains is to subsidize them (i.e. force all to pay for them).
Even in densely populated cities- no one wants to pay the actual cost of their public transit commute…..so they tax everyone, and force those who don’t use the transit to subsidize those who do.
I love trains; I would have loved to have lived in their hey-day…..but screw ’em when the state must force everyone to pay for ’em. That was the one thing I liked about my NY days….getting to see all of the old railroad infrastructure from the grand old days- and imagining the culture of the time when people weren’t so “affluent”, but were more ‘real’ and humble, and got along a lot better.
And to think, the old Penn Central tracks from NYC to Long Island used to carry steam trains through blizzards with no problem in the 1860’s…but today, with all of the computers and high-tech everything that your (even Federal) tax money now pays for, if leaves fall on the tracks in the fall, or there’s a halfway decent rain…the trains are snarled. Proof that gov’t F’s up everything it touches!