Reader Question: Jo Jorgensen?

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Here’s the latest reader question, along with my reply! 

Jesse asks: Do you vote Libertarian? I don’t usually, but Jo Jorgensen seems like a real libertarian.

My reply: I did vote for Ron Paul. This time, I will vote for the Orange Man, with both hands holding my nose. Which I will do not because I support the Orange Man but because if he is re-elected, it might buy us a bit more time to get our affairs in order. If he loses, a faction of the ruling elite will formally assume power and assert it in ways probably beyond our worst imaginings. I do not, for example, foresee OM imposing a national Face Diaper fatwa. He may, of course. And he may also push mandatory Needling. But it is certain we will get both under Biden (rather, the people he is fronting for).

On Jorgensen: I don’t yet know enough about her to make a permanent judgment but I was disturbed to read of her support for the BLM movement. This suggests she’s not very bright – or something worse. BLM is the apotheosis of everything Libertarians oppose. It is racial and so collectivist; it is communist and thus coercive collectivist. Violent, atavistic and tribal. It attacks people who oppose police brutality – as such. One must assume the posture of the police as a kind of racial shock corps serving the white race. Which is absurd and vicious.

I’ll have more about her soon after I have had a chance to learn more about who she is and what her views are.

. . .

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43 COMMENTS

    • Hi Mooeing,

      The BLM approval bothered me a lot. It makes me suspect her on a fundamental level. Regardless, I agree with others here who state that politics isn’t the long-term solution. A movement of ideas is. If she – or any other Libertarian – can articulate the fundamentals in a persuasive way, they have my support.

      PS: Where’ve you been? 🙂

      • Exactly, Eric!

        That is why a Ron Paul is so great; If you listen to him speak, it’s not about “Vote for me because I will do thus and such”- but rather, it’s more about ideas and basic fundamental truths of liberty- so that the listener comes away with principles which will resonate with them for years, and affect their future thoughts and actions, which is something far more important than who wins a silly election.

        To my recollection, the last person affiliated with the LP who promoted such ideas and philosophies, and who had such integrity, was the late Harry Browne.

        • Amen, Nunz!

          One of the things I respect most about Dr.Paul – and have tried emulate – is his reasonableness; his attempt to persuade using facts and logic in a calm, orderly manner. He reminds me of some great teachers I had as a kid. Not the dogmatic/indifferent ones. Here is a man one can listen to – who listens himself. Someone it is possible to converse with, who has no interest in forcing you to agree with him.

  1. The Libertarian Party has a fatal flaw. The notion that a party can use a totally corrupt amoral system to change that very same system is a delusion. Even to suggest that such is possible is a demonstration of insanity. Voting does nothing but encourage them. The fact that they “won an election” is the source of their claim to power. Your vote is a validation of that claim. Looking back to the late 60’s and early 70’s, there was a slogan, “what if they had a war and nobody came?” The same could be applied to elections. If no one voted, from what source would they claim their authority?

    • Amen, JWK –

      This is why I support a Libertarian movement. Of ideas. To try to persuade people of the merits of live – and let live. If such a movement gains a sufficiency of adherents, a political party would be oxymoronic.

      • Say it ain’t so Joe. I read her entire platform some time back and it’s the best I’ve seen other than Ron Paul when he was running. But now she’d backing BLM? Holy shit, how out of touch can you be? And I thought she was intelligent.

        I’m trying to challenge BLM to “come and take it” via my domicile. I have some dirt work that needs to be done and need to rent a trackhoe anyway.

        If enough came, it could fertilize a few acres minimum. Strip em bare, turn that backhoe around on em several times and there will be no ID. Yep, I’m about that fed up. One neighbor has a really badass chopper and another has a plane. Others are replete with ammo, guns and side by sides to round up those that might get into the pasture and hide.

        Wish I still had Ace. He could ferret out anything in the pasture and either kill it or send it packing(they have to be at least as fast as he was or the size of a cow). Sure wish I had Buck too. He stopped a sow from coming up behind me and having me for lunch. He was good at supply pigs for the table. He’d kill a pig and bury it only when he was sure nobody was watching. I’d be a quarter mile away with my Steiners waiting for him to leave. Back in the house and chilling out, I’d go dig up the pig, hang it from the clothesline post and get it ready for the pit. If you never had wild pig you have no way of knowing you’re missing the best eating on earth.

        My neighbor called and said somebody had shot two 200+ lb hogs(perfect)and left them lying on my place. Next thing I know my cousin is bragging about it. I put the kibosh on that and said there would be no more killing hogs or deer or anything else that’s good food and just leave it laying. I figure BLM willl just make the grass grow for a season at the least. I consider them vermin that need to be exterminated. They’ve killed too many people directly and way more indirectly. It’s a problem that has to be fixed, permanently.

        • I dunno, Eight- Comparing BLM “activists” to fertilizer/dung? They’d have to purchase some credits in humanity in order to elevate themselves into something useful like that. I doubt even weeds would grow over where they’ve been composted. Could feed ’em to the pigs…but the pigs would probably get really mad at ya.

          • Nunz, the earth could break them down. If the hogs ate them, I’m afraid it would kill them. I wouldn’t do that to an animal.

      • The reality is: political parties ARE the problem! People talk all the time about banning various things. Why do we never talk about banning ALL organized political parties and career politicians? Ok, as libertarians we don’t “ban” things, but a libertarian society would probably have no need for politicians or their “parties”.

        For several reasons political parties should not exist:
        1. The power gets concentrated in the larger parties, making doing anything outside of them impossible. So you get pay to play which is about as corrupt as you can be.
        2. Large amount of money (almost all stolen or ill gotten money btw) get involved, enriching the connected (see pay to play).
        3. Makes a level playing field impossible.
        4. If they get too much power they all like to ban their competition.
        5. Which then leads to dictatorships

    • the “libertarian” party has been a full blown joke for some time with the latest candidate the worst yet. Which is saying something. Theyre pretty much communists. Oh well. Watcha going to do

  2. “I can’t support anyone who supports a Marxist collectivist organization.”

    Said without irony by those who collectivize that movement.

    • Hi Craig,

      Correct me if I’m wrong – because I am always open to being made aware of any inadvertent errors I may have made:

      BLM is specifically racial – which is to say, specifically collectivist. Black lives matter. Implying others matter less so. Which is affirmed by the abuse heaped by BLM on anyone who states that all lives matter. Yes?

      BLM is also closely associated with Marxism, which is also collective – forcibly so. Yes?

      I am disgusted by the abuse of anyone and this idea that only blacks are being abused by AGWs or abused to a greater degree is wrong on the facts as well as dangerous because it incites race hatred and . .. race-based collectivism.

      I’m a middle-aged, college-degreed white guy without any criminal “history” but my demographic didn’t prevent a white AGW from drawing a gun on me because I questioned his pulling me over for minor speeding.

      This sort of thing happens commonly nowadays and has nothing to do with one’s race. It has everything to do with the arrogance of AGWs.

  3. There are single issues that wholly disqualify a candidate. Supporting BLM, which is a self proclaimed Marxist political movement is one of them.

    Jorgensen isn’t stupid. Listening to her speeches and her fact patterns indicate she’s not a dolt. What she is IMO is an opportunist who says what she thinks will get her the most votes. This is probably why she leads with “legalizing drugs” so frequently. Which she adds “saves lives”. Indeed. That seems to be the central unification plank of the party that claims to be libertarian.

    Humans need a god. Weed seems to be the It-god for the LP. That, and not being accountable to a moral authority higher then themselves at the moment- stoned or not. I’m not sure which one they are more proud of.

    It’s a movement that cannot win because there is no rock-solid immutable unifier. Unifying people who profess to be libertarian is like herding cats. It’s largely a party of self-interested individuals who believe their non-conformity and rebellion rises to a cogent governing philosophy. Sure it all sounds great on paper but the plan goes to hell as soon as one person attempts to unify the party around a platform and planks. Then it becomes every man for himself again- and again.

    What impresses me is that there is no original thought in the LP. All their ideas appear to borrowed from The Enlightenment thinkers from ages ago and then bowed around grievances with mature societies. Add some Utopian Socialism and some ideology that assumes the goodness and even perhaps the Infallibility of man and presto! A fungible Codex.

    I’m not trying to pee in the camp fire here but if the LP ever wants to be anything that wins the hearts and minds of the governed it had better grow up and get it’s shit together- or be content to hit the Hookah and bitch about The Man.

  4. “I will vote for the Orange Man” — You profess to be a libertarian yet you’re going to vote for an amoral, unprincipled, narcissistic, habitual liar who advocates torture of prisoners, warrantless searches, victim disarmament statutes, denial of due process, abuse of eminent domain, and too many other misdeeds to enumerate here. Incredible, simply incredible.

    • Hi Sky,

      It’s a tough call. I understand your argument. Hear mine out. I see this election as a choice – such as it is – between what you have rightly described as “an amoral, unprincipled, narcissistic, habitual liar who advocates torture of prisoners, warrantless searches, victim disarmament statutes, denial of due process, abuse of eminent domain”… and someone who is all of those things and worse and more.

      Correct?

      As I wrote to the reader, if OM is re-elected, it is possible there will not be a National Face Diaper Mandate; it is possible there will not be a mandatory Needling decree. His opponent has promised to enact a National Face Diaper mandate and will certainly push for national Needling. Do you suppose Biden will not pursue far more “vigorous” victim disarmament? Etc? Can you think of anything that would improve, from the standpoint of preserving liberty, if Biden rather than OM becomes president?

      What are we to do?

      Remember: No one else is going to be president. It will either be OM or it will be the senile hack surrounded by people even more despicable than OM. We are like prisoners given a say over our new warden. It is a bleak choice, I agree. But it’s the only choice we have until we’re no longer prisoners, eh?

      I learned a valuable political lesson from Lenin – a bastard but no fool. It is, simply, to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good (or the better) in tactical terms, for the sake of a strategic end.

      I see the OM as a means to an end. He gets re-elected and we get more time. Time is invaluable. Time to prepare; to relocate, to adjust our situations. To educate and inform people – and perhaps change some of their minds.

      If that hair-plugged psychopath assumes the purple, all of that is over. We will be out of time.

      And that is why I will hold my nose with both hands and vote for the Orange Man.

      • Eric,

        I get that you are opposed to some of the things that Jo Jorgensen supports and so am I, but they are minor compared to many of the things that Trump and Biden support. She wouldn’t have been my first choice for the LP nomination, but I think she’s generally an articulate spokesman for libertarian principles, and is way different from some of the Republican retreads that the LP has nominated in the past like Gary Johnson, Bill Weld, and Bob Barr.

        I could be wrong, but I think some of her tweets have been interpreted as more of an endorsement of BLM than she really meant. Some of her clarifying statements have said that she thinks that some of the BLM protesters have objectives that are compatible with libertarian values such as ending the drug war, no-knock raids, and qualified immunity and that we ought to work together to achieve common goals and not that she embraces the BLM in total.

        If your vote were going to make the difference between Trump being elected and Biden being elected, I can see why you might vote for Trump. But it’s not, so why not vote libertarian and at least send a message that you’re dissatisfied with the status quo. I’m not voting anyway, but if I were forced to vote, it would definitely be for Jo Jorgensen.

        • GregL, as much as it breaks my heart to say it, Jo has ZERO chance of being president. This is one of the most vital elections in our life times. If the Orange Man doesn’t get back in, we are all totally out of time. The Progs and their fellow travelers will rig the system so that there is no chance of them ever losing power again. They will open the borders and flood the country. They will make DC and PR states. They will make the 20-30 million illegals already here voting citizens. That in and of itself will provoke a real civil war. Couple that with AOC’s mad Green New deal, and all of the rest of their wish list, and there would be no choice, but war to stop them.

          • Hi BJ,

            Amen. I see this election as the political equivalent of picking up an AK on the battlefield and using it. We have only the weapons at hand, not the weapons we’d like to have.

            Orange Man is far from perfect. But he is, in my view, infinitely preferable for just the reasons you’ve laid out. If he loses, it is over.

            • Eric, ya know I think of you like a brother….but it boggles my mind that you think there is any fundamental difference between the canned-didates….other than the words they speak and the audience to whom they seek to appeal.

              This country and our personal lives have changed more, -for the worse- under Trump, than at any other time during our lives. We have been more negatively impacted the last 3.5 years than we were even under The Chimp or Obozo- and THAT is saying something.

              Call it a “green new deal” or a “Corona stimulus”- it still amounts to the same thing- just more funny money for the chosen cronies, and more expansion of government (Now, “New and improved, with 5G and contact-tracing!”).

              Who you vote for does not matter. It will not do any harm…nor will it do any good. (Glad I didn’t vote though- tempted as I was, ’cause I’d then have to live with the fact that I bought the lies, and that I gave my consent to all of the resulting BS).

              Hell, I think if the commies win, THAT may actually buy us more time, as the Trump supporters may actually start resisting, and we may actually see some aspects of liberty starting to be restored at the state and local levels in conservative areas, as they finally are pushed too far and tire of seeing their lives and communities destroyed by the imposition of Marxism.

              If Trump wins…conservatives will just remain asleep and support their side, thinking that that is enough to fend off the Marxists…as Trump continues to merrily sell us down the river.

              Think about it.

              And regardless of who wins….the election and it’s aftermath will likely be a new turning point, under which wide-spread or even national Martial Law is enacted; and even more power and militarization are granted to “law enforcement”- with the consent of “the people”, to “keep them safe” ya know…..

              We’re in a no-win situation- and I don’t mean to criticize you, as your intent is certainly very admirable- but it just pains me to see you (YOU -of all people) buying into the rhetoric, which I think ultimately you KNOW is meaningless- but which you want to believe merely because the situation is so grim, and at least on the surface, Trump seems better than the alternative because he speaks words which are less offensive.

              • PS. Re: Martial Law and more militarization after the election: THAT will likely be used as the pretext to disseminate “the vaccine [and chip]”- at gunpoint- without regard to any pretenses of consent that would be required under normal conditions.

                That is likely why they (including Trump) are pushing for “the development of a vaccine” by November.

        • Hi Greg,

          If this were an ordinary election I’d consider voting for Jorgensen. However, I think this election is the most important one since 1860. It will also likely be a very close election. The Orange Man is deeply flawed but consider the alternative. If he loses, it is certain that a National Diaper Mandate will be imposed. It is extremely likely that mandatory Needling will follow. So far, the Orange Man has not pushed national – mandatory – Diapering. He may, but he hasn’t yet. Same as regards Needling. He may. But there is a good chance he may not. With Biden, it is certain.

          But it is much more than just those things.

          If Biden is ensconced, outright/explicit socialism will be ensconced. There will be “reasonable” eviscerations of the second amendment; extreme leftists will be nominated to the Supreme Court; the teeth in the Obamacare “individual mandate” will regrow. As BJ noted, DC and Puerto Rico will be made states. The Electoral College will likely be replaced with direct voting, cementing the political control of the hard-left over the entire country. Elections will become as pointless as the ones held in the old Soviet Union. People like Jorgensen will have even less chance than they have now.

          Hence, I will vote for the Orange Man – provided he does not come out for a National Diaper Mandate (or mandatory Needling) before the election.

          It is a hard choice, I realize. But – for me – it is the only choice.

          • Eric, Trump will indeed mandate needling:

            “Trump says he will mobilize US military to distribute future COVID-19 vaccine”
            https://connectingvets.radio.com/articles/trump-says-military-will-distribute-covid-19-vaccine

            Several hundred million syringes have already been stockpiled, as I’m sure you’re already aware.

            Think of it: The military?! Why the military, in a nation where there’s a hospital, clinic or doctor’s office on every corner? Think of Martial Law being imposed after the election due to the ensuing chaos, no matter who wins. Think of any pretenses of remaining Constitutionality being suspended, as they would be under Martial Law- and thus any requirement for consent being abandoned.

            Instead of voting for which dictator we hope will save us- when none will- we’d do better to prepare for how we will deal with being prohibited from all commerce and travel, and being ostracized and vilified by those around us because we are refuseniks.

            It’s coming. Trump will not save us- just as he has not saved us but has rather fanned the flames. Biddy Biden surely will not save us either…but some of those mask-wearers who are signaling that they are primed to accept the vaccine may start to think differently if the dictate comes from a hostile camp, rather than the one they perceive as their friend. I think if there is any slight hope of a little respite…that may be it….but of course, I would not vote for either.

            Just as an illustration: Notice that the opposition to Obozocare was a lot stronger when Obozo was in office- but now that “our friend” Trump is in, who caved on his promise to repeal it, but has temporarily suspended the individual mandate, there is far less resistance to the evil which is Obozocare.

            Also, just as Trump has been able to install gun-grabbers to high offices and judgeships without so much as a word of opposition from 2A supporters-whereas if a Dumbasscrat had done the same and appointed the very same people, there would have been mass resistance.

            People will take far more abuse from those whom they perceive as a friend, than they would from an overt enemy.

            • Hi Nunz,

              He has said he will mobilize the military; that doesn’t necessarily mean mandate vaccines. It is a difference. Whereas we can be certain that Biden or whoever pulls his speak-cord will mandate vaccines. He has already stated he will mandate Diapers. And he will reinstate the “individual responsibility” fine. The fact is it’s been avoidable for the past several years solely because of Orange Man.

              I get what you have been saying to the contrary; but if there’s even a small chance of preserving some degree of liberty via OM, I will take it – for the same reason a drowning man will grab hold of whatever floats.

              • But….the military? Why would anyone associate the military with administering vaccines– the MILITARY- unless the intent was to intimidate and force “compliance”?

                Such a statement would (Nay, IS) absurd, unless the intent was force, which is all the military is about.

                I mean…has anyone ever considered mobilizing the military to conduct breast cancer screenings or hearing tests? (Military hearing test: [Fires rocket launcher six inches from patient’s ear]”Did you hear that?” “What???” [Stamps forehead “DEAF”] )

                I get what you’re saying too, my friend- and the intent is certainly admirable…..but…uh….don’t hold your breath….. Unlike a stock prospectus, “Past performance IS indicative of future results”. 🙂

                • Hi Nunz,

                  OM loves the military – and AGWs. But it does not mean he will use them to force vaccinate people. I grant he may. But the possibility he may vs. the certainty that Biden (and those pulling his speak-cord) will is why I will vote for the OM. This is literally a matter of life – and death. Not merely physical. I may write at length about my reasoning.

                  • ‘Morning Eric!

                    I hope you do write about it! It’s probably the most important topic we’re facing.

                    The reasoning boggles my mind though; The guy who has already threatened to use the military to “distribute” a vaccine vs. someone who will do the same thing, is not much of a choice.

                    What’s going to happen, is going to happen no matter which idiot is on the stage. Our time is better spent preparing for how we will deal with it- what we will have to do to evade the needle and manage to survive. Our lives are going to change dramatically. We are going to experience outright persecution. We no longer have the time to waste on desperate slivers of hope which are really no hopes.

          • Hi Eric,

            I understand what you are saying. I don’t agree but I think I understand. There’s probably not a lot we disagree on, but this is one of them, and I think it’s mostly a matter of strategy rather than principle. And as always, I appreciate you standing up and defending what you think is right.

    • Skytrooper,
      My take on the matter of voting [Not criticizing Eric- I understand what he is trying to do…and in principle it is admirable…]:

      I’ve never voted. Would have if Ron Paul had made it through the primaries when he ran, though. But the way I see it, the charade of voting is a mere spectacle to pacify the masses and to keep them invested and participating. No matter which puppet is elected, the agendas of those who really control this country and the world continue unabated, as they have for the last 100+ years- and Trump is a perfect example of this.

      Despite Trump’s promises/lies, the wars and welfare and social engineering and destruction of our liberties have continued unabated. The only thing that changes from candidate to candidate, are the words used, and the audience to whom they pander.

      We have seen that despite Trump ostensibly being a somewhat lesser evil than the Clinton Bitch, our country and world have changed more, and we have lost more liberties under his watch than at any other time during my 58 years of existence- so it makes no difference who one votes for.

      I’ll stay home in November and take a good crap- as the resultant product of such will be superior to any of the candidates for whom I could vote. And whether using my time to vote, or to relieve myself, the end result will cbe the same: Circling of the drain.

      Personally, as a Libertarian/Anarchist/Voluntaryist- whatever one calls the rejection of government/authoritarianism/collectivism, I do will not give my assent/consent to anyone who wishes to further and expand the very thing which I am opposed to: Government. Casting a vote to select WHO will be the grand-poobah of this Beast is not a viable solution.

      Trump has indeed done much harm- the judges and other appointees he has installed; the further militarization of the police; the expansion of the military; the escalating of existing and new cold wars; the work being done to destabilize and effect regime changes in other countries; the record creation of absurd amounts of fiat currency; the foisting upon us of the 5G network; the refusal to prosecute people like the Hildebeast and those involved with Epstein (as well as those who disposed of Epstein); the prosecution of Julian Assange; the selling-out on propmises to curtail foreign invaders and to repeal Obozocare, yada yada, have all pointed to the fact that far from “draining the Swamp”, he has instead overflowed it, and is just as much a tool of the globalist Cabal as anyone else.

      And there are no viable alternatives…so what is the point of voting? If anything, an open communist/socialist like Biddy Biden might actually effect some good in the sense that it might actually cause some conservatives to finally realize that our salvation is notin voting/the political process, and to actually stop being willing participants in the destruction of their country and liberties and lives- whereas when “one of their own” is in, that person can actually effect more evil than a Hitlery or Biden, because those who would resist if they did it, sit back on their haunches complacently and throw their support to “their guy”, because he says words that appease them, while in reality doing the very same things that their avowed enemy would do.

      • Here, here…I voted for the red team the first election I was eligible (hey…turned 18 four months before the election, and grew up in rural Utah…I didn’t know any better). After that, and until 2012, I dutifully filed my protest vote for the LP. Then the LP ran Gary Johnson a second time. The first time around, he was ‘mostly’ libertarian…tolerable. I don’t know what happened between 2012 and 2016, but he was a lot closer to an R than libertarian, so no vote from me, and no votes from me going forward. I’m done playing the game. Yeah, shift the deck chairs around, but the ship is still sinking and no one seems to want to grab a bucket and start bailing.

        Seems to me that the LP has failed miserably in educating people about what the LP is–or should be–(the party itself…there are a number of ‘little l libertarians’ not affiliated with the party structure that do yeoman’s work at communicating libertarian thought and ideals…looking at you, Eric). The party relies on outlets like Reason to handle their education/communication, which is hit-and-miss in my mind. So, the lack of a coordinated education effort leaves the general population to make the LP what they want to make of it…’you just want to legalize all the drugs’ or ‘who’s going to pay for the roads if nobody pays taxes?’ and fringe garbage like that.

        Just looked over the LP website, and no prominent/known to me libertarian thinkers/personalities are involved with the party. Why did the LP not get down on their collective knees and beg Ron Paul to be more involved? Where’s Tom Woods? Lew Rockwell? Walter Williams? Peter Schiff? Hell…Penn Jillette? That, coupled with the LP allowing joke candidates like Vermin Supreme and John McAfee to participate in the process makes libertarianism look like a novelty, rather than a real platform with real (untried) solutions to the problems we, as a nation, face.

        • The Libertarian Party has been a bad joke for a long time and has accomplished very little in the nearly 50 years of its existence. A few local and state wins. Maybe an occasional mention in the press. The general pubic are for the most part still unaware of its existence, or as Vegas points out, they think it’s just a bunch of drugged-out freaks who want to run stop lights and drive 100mph through school zones.

          I was an LP Part member early on and did get to meet people like Walter Williams and Russell Means at Party functions, so I can’t say it was a complete waste of time. However most of the meetings consisted of endless arguments over the finer points of Roberts’ Rules of Order. There were even meetings where coming out publicly and strongly against issues like gun control were rejected by the local chapter for fear of “getting into trouble.” Today they just offer “collectivist L” as an alternative to collectivists “D” and R”. I opted out a long time ago.

    • I keep hearing the claim that Trump is a habitual liar- but I haven’t seen it or any unusual number of examples. I’ll spot you the other traits because I believe they are all to a greater or lesser degree true.

      But I haven’t seen Trump lying.

      And I personally am not voting for a leader or ruler, I’m voting for someone who is more likely to represent my interests than a senile communist or any of the other would be rulers out there. The game is being played whether you participate or not.

      • Ernie, are you kidding? Trump just pulls “facts” out of his ass; makes stuff up; says whatever he has to in order to suit the moment/win the argument. And he does this CONSTANTLY. Remember the time he disgraced himself by just inventing a “fact” when sparring with Trudeau of Canukistan?

        He makes stuff up as he goes.
        He says one thing one day…then another thing the next day…and then does a third.

        There are two jobs which qualify their holders as professional liars: Cop, and politician. Trump has taken it one step further though- he does it so blatantly that he doesn’t seem to care that his lies are immediately recognizable as such, or that they illustrate the fact that he stands for nothing, has little integrity, and even less respect for his audience and constituents.

        It’s ironic; we had a black president, but our current white president actually lies more……

        • I just put together a 14 paragraph reply, for some reason my console froze up and I lost it. Hopefully this one will be better anyway!

          I do NOT remember him making something up WRT Trudeau. If so I hesitate to call a lie what could be a mistake or misstatement. Do you have a link?

          As to saying one thing, then something different, then going a third way, that is a process of both negotiating and refining a solution or answer. I use it myself often. I propose something to a client, the client pushes back with something else, I offer a slightly different solution accommodating the objections if possible, and end up doing something quite different to solve the client’s problem which I can support and the client will pay me for.

          Remember, Trump’s background is negotiating big deals and big projects, and he is VERY good at it. He’s far from perfect, but I don’t see grounds for calling him a habitual liar. Doing so puts you in the same elite class as Ragin’ Madcow… (Sorry- that’s just mean).

          To me, he’s done a somewhat good job, with a couple of notable exceptions. The unconstitutional and treasonous bump stock ban, failing to override the usurpations of communist judges and lawyers in getting a defensive wall built, and accepting the mark of the beast mask. Oh, and not locking up the lizard queen, but hope springs eternal.

          In all three, I see a character flaw, though it is part and parcel to the same thing that makes the guy tick. The willingness to compromise on too much, to win the “game”. Note that this is a much different thing from lying.

          As to the last, we had a ni@@er in the oval office for 8 years (surely a record for one holding a job…). His lies and subversion were either covered up or spun favorably by the propaganda organs of the state. And lest someone call me a raciss’, I have never stated my skin tone, and was a supporter of Alan Keyes, a real black MAN of impeccable integrity and principle, and one who was shut down by the Repukes even faster than Ron Paul.

    • Well that’s quite a list of indictments there Skyclad. Care to back up this roster with facts and citations or are you just one more blowtard? Inquiring minds capable of discerning facts from opinion want to know.

  5. Last time I voted libertarian was in 1992. Until Orange Man, it was other third parties for me. Gary Johnson was a new low until now for the Libertarians. Besides, I vehemently disagree with them on unrestricted Free trade. Like things like maxwells equations which break down at the quantum level, Free Trade breaks down on international level for finished goods and agricultural products grown here. Orange man is pretty bad, but he gets my vote in 2020 barring his directly taking more freedoms away.

  6. The Libertarian Party has about as much t0 d0 with Libertarianism as PETA does with actually saving animal’s lives….or as much as BLM has to do with justice and fighting brutality…….

    There have been some notable exceptions, like the late Harry Browne- but now-a-days the organization seems to be a red herring, (like The Flat Earth Society)- which promotes clueless dopes likme Gary Johnson and this Jo Jorgensen…..

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