Since the government is determined to force you to buy an electric car, it might be good to know what you’re in for.
What they’re not telling you.
Everyone has heard about the range/recharge problems. They’re significant – assuming you don’t consider having to curtail your driving according to where – and when – you can wait to recharge insignificant problems.
Given that most of us don’t want to wait more than five minutes in a drive-thru line (and few of us would tolerate waiting 30-45 minutes to get our food at a drive-thru) it is certain most of us will not be happy about having to wait like that while our government-mandated EV recovers its capacity to move.
But it’s actually much worse than that.
That 30-45 minutes you have heard bandied about – the time you’ll wait for a “fast” charge – is only available where there are “fast” chargers.
And where is that?
Private homes have residential electric service panels – and wiring. They are not wired to “fast” charge the 400-800 volt loads required for “fast” charging one electric car in 30-45 minutes. How about two?
The house would have to be re-wired to make even one possible.
And not just the house.
The wiring from the street to the house. Probably also the wiring down the street – from the source of the electricity, which has to be “pumped” continuously from the generating source, which is probably very far away. That takes heavy-gauge cabling and other “infrastructure” – as the Biden Thing styles it. Especially if we’re talking about transmitting that kind of current to every house on the street – to entire neighborhoods – so that dozens (hundreds, thousands) of people can each “fast” charge an electric car at home.
That would be the place where the “fast” charger is located. Which will be someplace down the road a piece. Probably at least five minutes away from wherever you live, which means adding at least that to your 30-45 minute “fast” charge. If it’s ten or fifteen minutes away, add that much more to your wait, which is now close to an hour’s wait . . . assuming you don’t have to wait in line for someone else to finish “fast” charging their electric car, ahead of you.
It could be hours before you’re done “fast” charging.
Then you can go home, again.
Which will take another however-long-it-takes to get back there.
But even if it’s only the 30-45 minutes (plus however long it took you to drive to the ‘fast” charger) you’ll still be waiting to charge at not home. What will you do while you wait? Read the magazines? Listen to the radio? Instead of being home, you’ll be at the plug – which is at a place you probably don’t want to be when you’d rather be home.
When was the last time you spent half an hour at a gas station?
Some people will be able to “fast” charge while at work, of course – commercial buildings and commercial areas being more likely to have the necessary infrastructure to “fast” charge – and in that case, you’ll be able to get home without having to wait, first.
But it does tether you to work in a way you never were, before.
You could recharge – not “fast” – at home. Assuming you have even more time. It will be several hours at the least to recover a partial charge using 240 volts (a dryer-stove type three-prong plug, which most residential home panels can handle) or overnight on standard 120 volt outlets of the type you use to plug in other electrically powered things.
But at least you’ll be home. Though you won’t be able to leave for awhile.
And you’ll have to add this plugging in (and unplugging) ritual to your daily list of things to do, too. These small chores eat up a lot of time when added up.
Watch out for that cord.
Wouldn’t want anyone to trip over it.
There’s something else they haven’t told you that might be worth knowing about what you’re in for. It’s that the range touted by an EV is less than advertised. But not for the solely reasons you may have heard – such as use of electrically-powered accessories, such as the AC and heater. Its true that using them will cut down how far you can travel vs. how far they say you’ll be able to travel.
You have also probably heard – and it’s true, too – that the faster you drive an EV, the less far the EV will go. Which is equally true, of course, for a non-electric car but with the difference being the gas-hoggiest car be hammered full-throttle from stoplight to stoplight and still only takes five minutes to refuel vs. the 30-45 minutes it takes an EV to “fast” charge . . . assuming you can find one.
And that brings us to what they’re not telling you.
Or rather, explaining to you.
An EV’s real-world range is less than its advertised range – because it takes so long to recover its charge.
A car with a gas engine can be driven to the last drop of its range without sweating the time – or the place.
If it has a range on a full tank of say 400 miles – as is common and about twice the range of most EVs – you can drive right up to 400 miles, roll into any gas station on fumes – and be back rolling again, five minutes later.
If you have an electric car that advertises a 200 mile range on a full charge, it’s actually less than that because you can’t drive it the full 200 miles without incurring the time (and inconvenience) penalty. Realistically, you need to keep the electric equivalent of at least an eighth of a “tank” in reserve at all times, to avoid the wait. That means an eighth-less real-world range than whatever’s advertised.
So 200 is really more like 190. And 190 is more like 140, if it’s cold out – and you turn the heater on . . .
One last thing, related to all of the above . . .
If you use most of the EV battery pack’s range regularly it is likely the service life of the battery will be shorter. All batteries suffer from heavy discharge/charge cycling; it’s a function of battery chemistry. The more often you “fast” charge a heavily discharged battery, the sooner you’ll be replacing that battery – which will suffer a reduction in its capacity to receive and retain a charge, which will gradually reduce your EV’s range, again.
The farther you drive you EV, the less far you’ll be driving your EV.
As the Church Lady on Saturday Night Live used to say: Isn’t that special?
. . .
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We live in moderate climate CA. In summer and winter my wife’s Tesla fires off automatically to cool or heat the battery as appropriate to keep the battery temperature optimal.
Sounds like a freakin’ jet engine.
I’ll guess you lose 5% a day? Do not go on a long vacation. You’ll come home to a brick.
Yup. I live in SW Virginia where it’s unseasonably warm today. However, it could be 11 degrees F outside tomorrow – and stay that cold for days (it has before; it will again). I wonder what the effect of 11 degrees F would be on a Tesla – especially one left outside overnight…
Forget about EV’s, build your own, save money
0 to 100 (62 mph) 6.9 seconds,
It is green: It’s compliant with both Euro 6 and London ULEZ rules, with a CO2 figure of just 109g/km, that is cleaner than a Toyota hybrid.
1100 lb = uses only 20% of the earth’s resources to build compared to a tesla.
The biggest cost in a car is depreciation, Caterham super 7’s hold their value far better then almost any other car (electric cars have horrible steep depreciation). Very little depreciation and 58.3 mpg = one of the lowest cost cars to drive.
The most simple car, wrench on it yourself.
A great reason to own: The ultimate anti nanny state car, no driver assists, air bags, etc., only has a computer to run the fuel injection. (the Prisoner drove one.)
The best feature: more fun to drive then any other car, at any price.
You get two cars in one, use it to commute to work, drive it on the track on the weekend.
The prisoner, you are the prisoner now………
EV gestapos do not want you free to move around. They want you hemmed into an electric fence, if you will. Never truly free to wander more than half the range of your Electurd Vehicle forced by the electurd officials.
No one in their right mind is going to want an electric piece of crap in these parts. -40 below Winters and colder? Yeah, we want a warm cabin when we go places, so there goes battery juice just warming the damned thing up-and before we even drive down the road.
Also, there is no such thing as a “short trip” in these parts. You may as well set that thing on fire, and use it to warm yourself, for all the good it will do any one. People take plenty of time to warm up their cars & trucks, so that they can stay warm, even if they have the “square tire” bump when driving down the road. Driving to the nearest city (360-400 miles away)? Hell, you would never get there. And what about those who dog mush, and use four-wheelers (Summer) and snow machines (Winter), which you see people hauling on the back of trucks? There goes more electricity with the weight of the truck increasing. I suppose I should not get these idiots an idea of making snow machines and four-wheelers electric, either. I am sure both would work well (insert sarcasm). Until you get stuck in the middle of nowhere…
Of course, the people pushing this EV thing know all of that. The whole thing makes a sick kind of sense when you begin with the premise that the object is to make it much harder,if not impossible, for most people to regularly travel significant distances on their own, at their pleasure. The object is to her most people close to urban hives and to control and limit their free movement.
Best of all, merely stepping up voltage in your house will do nothing. Watts in a transformer must equal watts out of it. This means when you increase voltage for a charger, the available amperage decreases proportionally. To get faster charging at home, you will not only need to up the voltage in your house, you will need a larger transformer, the utility will need to upgrade their system if enough people want fast charging, and on and on it goes. And all that extra energy won’t be made with solar I tell you what. God help you if something cuts the insulation on the charging system and shorts it while you are by it. The 480V ballpark is probably the most dangerous voltage range in the world.
Hey Big Daddy,
My guess is you wanted to install fast chargers across the grid you would likely have to change every bucket pole mounted transformer in the country to provide the higher 480vac in lieu of 208/120vac voltage entering the house. Then you would have to buy another transformer to drop the voltage for your already normal 208/230/120vac loads. At construction sites where we use have significant loads for running a tower crane and normal power at the same time for example, we’ll normally elect to bring in the lower voltage and *step up* just the tower crane load (50-60amps) to 480vac. It is cheaper to rent or buy a smaller step- up transformer and use the normal power for normal use (200-300amps) vs buying or renting a larger *step down* transformer (200-30amps) and direct connect the 480 (50-60amps) to the Tower crane. In the case of installing High voltage in to address the car charger then the higher cost step down transformer would be required. Another reason the BS does not pan out.
20 amps times 240 volts equals 4800 watts. After five hours of charging, you’ve consumed 24 kilowatts. 30 times 24 is 760 kwh. Your electricity bill will double. Times 12 cents per kilowatt hour, it has a cost of 2.88 USD. Times 30 days, $86.40 to pay for the electricity consumed, remotely discharged when using the battery for propulsion and auxiliary uses. You are disconnected from the power supply but you still have the stored electricity in the battery.
Until you don’t. You need more watts, not volts. Eight hours of battery time for 200 miles of distance, 25 miles per hour of charge, means you will need more electricity from a direct source to continue your journey.
Coal is stored energy from the sun, just a matter of time for coal to become a natural battery.
650 cranking amps wins the race, internal combustion provides the traction to get to the action.
100,000,000 EVs being charged for five hours in one day will consume 4800 X 100,000,000 watts or 480,000,000,000 watts or 480 gigawatts of electricity needs to be generated in one day just for the hundred million evs to an 80 percent charge, it will be a 24 hour business.
365 times 480 is 175,200. You will need to be generating 175 terawatts of electric juice to propel 100,000,000 EVs.
You’re talking energy, its benefits to humankind ,coal works, exploitation of resources for use to have even more energy is the way to go. 95 percent of the electricity generated in Mongolia is from coal. It is the resource of choice, easiest to mine, exploit. You do what works. 95 percent of the electricity generated in Manitoba is from hydro because there are plenty of water resources available to make it so. It is the easiest way to obtain electricity in Manitoba. Electricity is the number one energy in use throughout the world. The use/consumption of the resources makes it so.
Cars with batteries will command even more generation.
You can potentially have a good business with a tractor and a flatbed with three good-sized diesel generators recharging electric vehicles when they are stuck on the side of the road with dead batteries. Just the scenario, not that it will be what happens.
You’ll be busy. 50 cents per kwh to get to 10 percent to have enough miles to make it to the next charging station will be a goldmine.
James Watt didn’t invent the steam engine, however, he did improve the design to make it 80 percent efficient, a huge step for mankind. Coal, iron ore, gears, factories powered by coal, goods can be manufactured. Water, cables and gears, dams, can feed raw mechanical power to run a factory.
All done before petroleum products became the commodities of choice.
Hydrocarbons came along and changed all of that. Ships at sea with thousand foot long hulls just won’t move with sails, you need diesel-electric power plants to make a ship go.
As did agriculture. Hydrocarbons for fuels, for anhydrous ammonia, natural gas and the atmosphere will become anhydrous ammonia with hydrogen gas as a byproduct, Haber-Bosch processing did it all long ago. A win win there. Fuels, fertilizers, what not, machinery with engines, all auxiliary inputs. Organic inputs such as mules and workhorses aren’t enough.
The same for electric vehicles, they are auxiliary vehicles in need of auxiliary inputs, mining machinery.
ICE vehicles will continue to rule the roost for many years.
Uncle Joe doth protest too much, just like that old hag Hillary or Nancy the Drunk or Kamala, the easiest **** ever, or any of the useful idiots caterwauling until the cows come home.
You’d think they would have a lick of sense by now.
And yet Tesla has a market cap of 1 trillion dollars and trades at a P/E of 340.
Cut to the chase.
They want us out of cars.
Don’t forget one thing you pointed out months ago Eric, they can wirelessly reduce the range as well.
Remember the exploding Samsungs? What’s stopping Uncle from using a few bad rolling crematoriums as justification for reducing the range from say 200 to 160.
I have three questions for these idjit uber greenies:
1) where is the power coming from?
2) how is it getting here?
3) what’s it going to cost?
I worked 42 years for the local power company and there is no way in hell that the grid can handle the additional load of a bunch of charging EV’s added to that load; it peaks out now on a hot summer day with everyone running their a/c full blast. On top of that the nimbys don’t want to look at power lines, they’ve been fighting a line that will bring actually green/renewable hydro power from Canada for years now. Plus they don’t want any of that evil nuclear or gas generated power. Good luck with the windmills and solar on a freezing calm night. You can’t fix stupid.
The EV owner would tell you that they’ll be recharging at night, when demand is down. They’ll also tell you that, if they have a solar power system on their home, that they don’t need the grid to recharge; they certainly won’t burden it enough to be of concern to the power company.
haha………….. I can’t wait till they try and spend big $ on solar panels on their roof and find out it won’t do crap to charge their car. Can’t wait.
Any moron that thinks they can control the climate is assuming Godhood. They aren’t qualified. For all they know we should be burning tires to offset the impending global cooling.
co2 bs = insanity. another nutcase theory for low iq leftist morons
This professor completely dismantles the climate change lie, worth watching, these leftists pushing this climate change bs are the biggest liars in history.
Climate change just like covid is purely political and religious, based on fake science. Climate change, the new GAIA cult religion, like it’s brother covid, a big favorite of the communist, reset, one world government, satanic cult freaks, chasing you with the nazi needle to exterminate you.
jordan peterson debates a bunch of leftists and pushes back on the idiot thunberg on the climate change fake science.
jordan peterson is a refreshing conservative voice fighting back against the leftist/communists.
Some people rent out houses where they have six or more different tenants living in one house, all the street parking is jammed full of all their vehicles, how would they charge all those vehicles? If four people charge EV’s on one side street the power available on that street is at full capacity, what if 150 people on their street want to charge their cars? brownouts? blown transformers causing fires? cluster fu ..kkkkk…. green agenda = insanity
Eric: A number of months ago I stated that a new induction charging system is being developed to charge electric vehicles while in motion. A few of my friends here stated that this was a pipe dream and would never work. Well it looks like Stellantis has constructed a track in Italy that proves that an electric vehicle can be charged while in motion. It is called DWPT – Dynamic Wireless Power Transfer. This is revolutionary. Your thoughts.
It’s interesting, but is it practical? Would it work with multiple cars on the same road? How about in the rain? Snow? How much would it cost to embed inductive charging in all or most roads?
I remain skeptical!
You can run your ICE car on wood when they cut off our fuel….
Sure, you can do it… but there are very good reasons why people don’t.
It takes a lot of wood (or coal, or etc.) to get very little gas, and if you don’t manage and control the process extremely well…kaboom!
Lots of problems with EV’s
Worldwide 80% of electricity is produced by oil, gas and coal. electric cars aren’t zero emission they are remote emission.
The new gas powered cars run so clean they have very very low emissions, very close to zero like .00001% contaminants. The exhaust coming out of a modern diesel is cleaner then the air in a big city. ICE engines will be banned because they are not zero emission, .00001% contaminants is too high, this is leftist insanity.
NOTE: The biggest pollutant emitted from new cars because they have so low emissions are from tires wearing out while driving, tire particles.
ATTENTION: Electric cars weigh 50% more than gas powered cars so have higher tire wear, so EV’s pollute more. ATTENTION: Only 5% of electric car batteries are recycled, a huge pollution problem.
In their entire life cycle including manufacturing, electric cars in total pollute more than gas powered cars. Most electric cars are designed as performance cars so they use far more energy and resources than they should. (the government regulations don’t allow the manufacture of small light electric cars which would make more sense, china does).
The grid can’t handle large numbers of electric cars charging, if all cars are electric the grid capacity has to be increased 500%.
Open pit lithium mining for battery manufacture, often done with child slave labour, is as bad as tar sands mining.
Electric cars are expensive, they are only for the rich, but they are heavily subsidized by the government with taxpayer’s money, including taxes from the poor, the poor subsidizing the rich. the poor can walk. electric cars, toys for the rich.
NOTE: The first people to buy electric cars were the most sold on the idea, the biggest believers, 20% of them are switching back to ice powered cars because of the inconvenience factor, the charging time hassle.
Another problem EV shares with new ice powered vehicles: Electronic components have a limited life, even if you do not use them. It’s the nature of the P-N junction that forms a transistor.
So the new electric vehicles like the new computerized ice vehicles will have a limited lifespan, when these electronics fail the car will be scrap, too expensive to fix, more recycling and waste. Only buy cars with no computers.
But mechanical systems, like Jay Leno’s 1832 steam engine can last for centuries.
Steam powered cars have the same advantage as electric cars, instant torque.
I see what you did there, and I heartily approve.
At least you’ll never have to worry about your electric car starting on fire.
My electric car will never cause a single fire.
Because I don’t have one. And I don’t want one. And I can’t afford one.
GM warned Bolt EV owners not to charge their Bolt in the garage, it might burn their house down, there have been lots of tesla fires, EV’s are great haha……..
We go to about 15-20 race events a year where we park in a field, towing approx. 5K lbs. Lots of energy to do that. There will be no charge stations in the middle of fields. I guess I’ll have to pay whatever ‘fee’ they come up with to keep an ICE, or bring a generator with me. And it would have to be a big one to do ‘fast’ charging.
I ran some calcs a while back and our typical trip would require a ‘recharge’ along the route to and from. So our 3hr trip towing would take 4-5, each way. With a charge needed at the destination too. 3 charges in a day, and it becomes a very long day. Wow.
I see no way contractors are going to do this with larger trucks.
I’m still waiting for them to explain how driving EVs, which are heavier than ICE cars, is going to use less energy, produce less pollution and ‘save the earth’. Their logic is as retarded as they are, but at least they’ve managed to come full circle on something that we can agree on- e.g. driving heavier vehicles that go faster. Now if it just weren’t for the ‘electric’ part, we might be able to get along with these assholes.
The answer to this is that converting electricity to motion is far more efficient than converting gasoline to motion.
A car’s weight determines rolling resistance.
A car’s size and shape determine air resistance.
The resistance of air goes up with the square of speed, so going twice as fast means four times the air resistance.
Electric cars are so efficient in converting electric charge to motion, that their dominating losses are always air resistance and rolling resistance. The faster you go, the more power required per distance, the shorter the range. Rolling resistance is addressed by special eco-tires and very high pressures. Your 200 mile EV could probably do a lot more than that in city driving, and a lot less than that going 100mph. Electricity is converted to motion with an efficiency well upwards of 90%. That’s not the whole story though, there are charging losses (about 90% efficient) and discharging losses in the battery (about 90% efficient as well). More on this later.
Gasoline engines are very inefficient at converting gasoline to motion, somewhere in the 30% range for the most sophisticated modern engines, and somewhere in the 40% range for diesels. Furthermore, their highest efficiency usually comes at a narrow RPM range. This is why gasoline cars are more efficient on the highway, despite the fact that the car itself takes more energy to move – the gasoline engine’s inefficiency at city driving hides that fact.
Furthermore, large power plants which generate electricity do so far more efficiently than is possible in a small car engine sized thing. The best, and most common large plants these days are combined cycle power plants. They convert fuels to electricity with about 55-60% efficiency.
Let’s take a reasonably modern 30% efficient gasoline car, and compare it to an electric.
The electric one got electricity from a 55% efficient power plant, charged its battery at 90% efficiency, discharged at 90% efficiency, and drove the wheels at 90% efficiency, getting:
0.55 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 40% efficiency.
It’s 1/3 more efficient than a gasoline car when powered by a combined cycle natural gas power plant. It’ll be less efficient from a coal or oil plant.
Electrics are indeed more efficient, even when powered by fossil fuel power plants. It still doesn’t mean they should be subsidized or mandated, nor that gasoline cars should be banned.
The battery EV is essentially a disposable consumer product by design. Gasoline vehicles are only such through neglect. The battery EV requires a great deal of up front energy to create that the gasoline car does not.
The battery EV quickly loses its advantages because it won’t have a 20 year normal life. It takes a great deal of material input. It’s added efficiency in moving will not catch up in its useful life unless the owner takes great pains to keep it on the road. Much more money and/or effort than most people who keep their gasoline cars beyond the 20 year threshold have to do.
Not to worry, the self proclaimed managers of human society already understand this. This why the energy rations of technocracy will prevent people from having a battery EV in the first place. The enormous energy cost to build one will be in the price. By then new gasoline cars are intended not to be on offer to people and by virtue of banning gasoline the old ones off the road.
Efficiency is generally an obsession with the authoritarian collectivists but only in that it is means to the ends they want. There won’t be individual choice, that would spoil the whole thing.
Passenger car diesel is 43% efficiency which is better then EV motors, no charging time hassle, cheaper to buy, lasts longer, far longer range, easier to find fuel
You left out transmission loss, which varies depending on many factors, but can be 30%, or more.
With transmission loss gas and diesel cars are more efficient then EV’s, most electricity comes from gas, oil and coal, china has the majority of EV’s, most of their power comes from coal, so most EV’s run on coal. How is that green? Diesel is the most efficient, so the goal is more waste???? more leftist GAIA cult religion insanity…..
It is all about restricting mobility, an old diesel runs on numerous fuels, can’t be tracked, has a very long range, can be in an off road vehicle that can go almost anywhere and tow heavy loads.
An electric car can be tracked, shut down remotely, only runs on electricity which can be turned off, has a very short range, takes forever to recharge, a trap.
**”converting electricity to motion is far more efficient than converting gasoline to motion. “**
But converting gas/oil/coal/whatever to electricity to convert to motion is not efficient.
The distance to your “local” charge station is also SUBTRACTED from your range, times two, there and back. There is absolutely nothing about EVs that improves a person’s life. Except one’s conscience if they have so far failed to understand that “climate change” is normal, and people can’t control it, period.
Electric cars have the same problems they had 100 years ago and didn’t sell well, range, charging time and cost…..
Last week I replaced my rechargeable electric toothbrush – because it will no longer run for more than a few minutes after charging all night.
This week my wife replaced her rechargeable electric Waterpik – because it will no longer run for more than a few minutes after charging all night.
For Christmas we’re getting our daughter a new Fitbit to replace the rechargeable electric one she has now – because it will no longer run for more than a few minutes after charging all night.
I could go on. Does anybody with a brain believe that rechargeable electric cars will be any different?
Coincidentally, yesterday we received an invitation from our electric supplier, Ameren, to enroll in “Peak Time Savings.” They want to connect to our thermostat so they can schedule “Peak Time Savings Events” for us. Like when it’s 4 degrees outside and our “event” will reduce the load on their windmills that aren’t turning and their solar panels that aren’t being sunshined upon.
This is voluntary – for now.
I desperately need new power tools. Been putting off buying ’em, ’cause corded ones aren’t of much use to me, and I have no intention of spending $1500 or more for some rechargeable tools and batteries…only to have to replace the batteries two or three years down the road at great cost- if they’re even still available then- or, like with my old digital camera, Sanyo stopped making the battery for it, so all you could get were third-party after-market ones, which didn’t even work half as good as the OEM…so I had to end up buying another camera (Got one that takes rechargeable AA’s this time, so the above will not happen again!).
These damn flashlights with rechargeable batteries are not great either. Better than buying disposable batteries…but really, taking all night to charge one stinking 18500 cell? Imagine a CAR where you’re charging HUNDREDS of the same battery?! It’s complete lunacy.
I have no idea what you are doing that corded tools are not useful for, but I worked in construction during the advent of cordless tools with sufficient power to actually work, if you remembered to charge them. Which I could not, after 20 or so years of NOT charging them. Corded tools always work, and in many cases are lighter because there is no battery. I didn’t use them when they were available for the last five years of that career.
Corded tools are of little use where there is no outlet or generator within a reasonable extension cord’s length.
Did LOTS of work powered by a generator. Though a job site without power was rare. Could be that cordless tools make them less rare, since the contractor may not be up the utility companies nether orifice quite so deep to get it.
That’s what I’ve been thinking, John…. Good old corded tools and a generator and some eggstension cords…..and it wouldn’t cost me any more than a new cordless set-up- even having to buy the generator.
That, or a couple of deep-cycle battries[sic] and an inverter.
Otherwise…corded tools are only of use to me within a few feet of my back door…which is almost never where anything needs to be built or worked on.
Saturday I found one of my Dewalt XRP batteries crapped out. It’s now an obsolete line and those with real Dewalt batteries for sale want enormous sums for them. Time to get the ebay Chinese upgrade with NiMH cells.
Batteries are PITA and thus I use as few of them as I can get by with.
Brent you can also get adapters that fit the newer Dewalt batteries onto the older Dewalt tools. Reasonable cost also. That is what I have done when my XRP batteries die.
I know, the kit (2btys, adapter, charger) is $150 give or take, the NiMH batteries are $35-40 a pair and work with the chargers I have. The reviews point out that the Li-Ion 20V max kit drains the battery if its left in the tool. Some run time issues reported. Might be operator error though since I am guessing they work fine for you.
Yeah, I have an 18-volt DW drill and circular saw that I bought around 25 years ago. Handy, but I’ve had to replace the batteries several times. Last year I bought a new 20-volt pole saw. I’ve been thinking of getting an adapter to use the new battery on the old drill and saw, but I’ve heard too that they discharge if you leave them attached to the tool.
It’s been my experience that the NiMh after-market batteries royally suck. Even when new, they don’t have anywhere near the run-time of the OEMs, and they go downhill quickly from there……
Same with my old digital camera- I had to get a new one, because Sanyo stopped making the battery for the old one…and the aftermarket batteries, even though also lithium-ion, were completely worthless. (Tried a few different brands too).
Most EV owners charge at home; most of their homes have chargers wired for 240 VAC, so they’ll charge their EV whenever they’re at home. Fast chargers, like Tesla Superchargers, are normally only used when on a road trip outside of one’s home area. As for EV charging at work, those chargers don’t have to be fast chargers; people at work will be there for a minimum of 8 hours, so fast charging isn’t necessary for a captive audience! A 240 VAC charger will be more than sufficient, especially if the employee charges at home, and thus is only in need of topping off their battery. Said topping off will be done long before they leave the office for home.
As for batteries, unless one is going on a long trip, it’s recommended to maintain the battery at 20%-80% of charge; I’ve also seen recommendations of maintaining 10%-90% charge for normal circumstances. This will ensure longer life. Going outside of those limits is all right when going out of town on a road trip, but it’s not something one wants to do regularly. Not only is this done with an eye for battery life; if one starts a trip with 100% charge, the regenerative braking will not work, since a fully charged battery cannot accept any juice being put back in to it. So, even when starting out on a road trip, unless 100% charge is needed to reach the next charger, it’s recommended to start off with 95% charge, so that the regen will be enabled.
Now, concerning fast charging to only 80%, this is done more for time than it is for battery life. The charging curve isn’t linear; it’s exponential, so a lot of charging will occur initially, but it’ll level off the closer you get to 100% charge. To put it in simple terms, it takes as much time to charge from 80% to 100% as it does to charge from 20% to 80%; IOW, if you charge to 100% on a fast charger, it’ll take double the time. Again, this is due to the charging curve, which is a function of battery chemistry. SO! Unless the next fast charger is far away, it’s recommended to charge to 80%, then continue on your way. If you own a Tesla EV, this won’t be an issue, as Tesla has blanketed the country with their Superchargers.
Now if we could just discover a reason to use EVs at all. Other than to satisfy the fantasies of some Psychopath In Charge who is deluded enough to think they control the climate.
John, this has little to do with the climate. Its all about control of the general populations mobility. I suspect that the top leaders of this hoax know that it will not work. They don’t care, because they have another objective. Anyone who has actually looked at the physical implications of this nonsense, can demonstrate that it simply will not work. Physics is physics, no matter how many unicorn farts one throws around.
The reason for the taper after 80-85% is because it will cause considerable damage the cells over time if you don’t. You can keep pumping full current all the way to 100% if you’d like. It’s the electronics in the charging system, either in the charger or in the battery pack’s BMS that do the taper.
There’s cheap crap that does charge without a taper. For example those ‘hoverboards’ of a few years back. They came with a wall wart to charge. Same current and voltage so long as it was plugged in. Instructions said to unplug after X hours. And if you didn’t? Well charge kept flowing to the batteries until they caught on fire.
That’s Li-Ion. Now other chemistries like lead-acid don’t have as big of an issue with overcharging and can use dumb chargers, but again at risk of some damage.
Yeah, but it’ll still take double the time to charge to 100% vs. 80%; that was my point. Most folks aren’t going to want to wait 1-1.5 hours for a full charge-especially when they don’t need it. In fact, because Tesla Superchargers are so prevalent now, many Tesla owners will only charge for 15-20 minutes, as that’s more than enough to get them either to their destination or the next Supercharger.
‘Watch out for that cord. Wouldn’t want anyone to trip over it.’ — eric
Or to be found hanging from it.
No doubt the stinger (hot end of the cable) will come with a prominent ‘Buttigieg warning’ — ‘not intended for anal insertion.’
If you run a gas car down to fumes when you’re not at a gas station, it’s just a matter of getting some fuel and some starter cranking to purge the air from the system. If you run all the juice out of a much shorter ranged electric car, then the fun begins! It’s either a flatbed to haul you to the volts or a truck pulling a generator to haul the volts to you. “Good” mileage for either the flatbed or generator truck is in the mid-teens, on top of the fuel burned while idling.
I’ve pushed my car out of the way solo the few times I ran out of fuel when I was younger – is that even possible with the likes of a Tesla?
This whole electric car thing can not crash and burn fast enough. Its gonna be fun to watch though…
I called around and asked about getting a new circuit installed in my garage. I wanted a 240v for electric home beer brewing (rather than my current propane setup). The idiot builders put my panel downstairs on the other side of the house (from the garage).
A hand-wavy estimate, which includes tearing and repairing numerous walls, routing around a staircase, going upstairs to the garage through our mudroom, is “at least $5000”. Probably would be closer to $8 – $10K TBH. In fact, no local electric people really want to do it. Not gonna happen.
Now I’ve got two daily drivers — the wife and I. And I have a 15 amp circuit in the garage (not even 20 amp FFS!!). So I would have to run two extension cords out of the garage (can’t charge the damn things *in* the garage even if I could get both cars in it, which I can’t) and charge both cars overnight, every night?!! Just to go back to work?!
And what if I wanna visit friends (or visit a brewery/restaurant) for an evening? “Sorry work, can’t come in tonight because I went out last night and the car isn’t charged yet.”
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. What’s gonna happen is just like operating a boat, i.e., you get to travel half your range on any use or you’re risking a very bad time.
And OBTW… what about when it’s freaking 20 degrees out with a layer of snow/ice on the car? Most people around here idle the car to melt it. That’s what I do. I’m pretty sure an electric heater is gonna burn that range like there’s no tomorrow.
The EV Shitshow is gonna be on par with the corona hoax. Watch. Unmitigated disaster on the way!
Amen, EM –
And: Hat tip for mentioning the multiple car problem, which I neglected to. You’re absolutely right. Most families have two vehicles – at least. That means double the plugs – and the draw.
And they ask me why I drink…
The people behind it know exactly what they are doing and are doing it to harm everyone else.
The hoards they convince to go along with it are the people that are entirely dependent on the productive. They know how nothing works and don’t care to.
electric cars do not work well in cold climates
What is progress looking like on VDOT’s “FredEx” (Fredericksburg Extension) express lane project? Privatization of the roads like that is another piece of the future they aren’t talking about.
The other day I saw a diesel-powered semi –a non commiefornia compliant one at that– hauling a load of new Teslas. I enjoyed the irony.
If I were so inclined I’d locate a chain of bars next to the Tesla super charger stations. Get lit up while getting juiced up. Maybe that’s why O’Biden wants breathalyzers in every vehicle.
I imagine this is another reason why the industry is so enamored with the idea of self-driving cars and “transportation service.” They know that solid state batteries (which claim much faster charging times and promise to stand up to more abuse) are still 5 years out… if they show up at all, so hedge with autonomous driving and make everything into a taxi. When was the last time your taxi driver had to refuel? So have fleets of these things in key locations, ready to go. You summon it with the app and pray no one got sick in it or trashed the thing. When you arrive, make sure you grab all your stuff because you won’t get the same vehicle on the way home, and even if you did, the next rider has already pawned your laptop. You literally will own nothing, just like Her Klaus said.
Just so you know, many Tesla Superchargers are located adjacent to or near rest areas, restaurants, stores, and so on. This enables a Tesla owner to do something that they’d do anyway, such as eat, drink, and use the bathroom during a road trip; when they’re done with all that, the Tesla owner’s car is recharged and ready to go.
I don’t think anyone has argued BEV’s can’t work for leisurely road trips. The trouble is only certain segments of the population have time for those. I haven’t had time for one of those since spring break 1995.
Every three hours? So much for driving from Missouri to Florida in 18 hours, as I once did.
I’ve often thought about that John, took us two 12 hour days to drive from Boston to Sarasota FL, traveling with our cats. Total nightmare attempting that with an RV.
EV, got damn autocorrect 😡
Even with an ICEV, you still won’t be able to make FL in one day-not when you have to go through traffic nightmares in NYC, Philly, Baltimore, and DC! When I went to FL in 2017, it literally took me 6 hours to go from the north end of the Baltimore Beltway (I-695?) to Fredericksburg, VA! Now, can you imagine having to go through NYC and Philly too?
And if you are running your heat or AC, or radio, all that time you have to be on the lookout for a charging station, and you dare not pass one by. Sort of like me and restrooms at 67
Hahahaha about the restrooms!
In 1981, driving a Kcar with a 4 cyl manual, I made it from Cape Canaveral to Indy in 20 hours. Slept 4 hours then went into work next day.
There is good news if you live in a rural area. You can easily create diesel fuel by cooking trash plastic under a little pressure. Also, if you don’t have a diesel vehicle, the fuel itself is nothing but 80% gasoline. So with a little more refining, you can make your own gas from trash plastic.
Yeah, but to run on home brew gasoline you better have a car from the 1930s or before that was designed to run on such crude fuel. The most modern car you could probably hope to run on it would be some 1950s Ford with the flathead V8 and it would likely need to be detuned.
In these days of a severe dearth of skilled labor I’ve found myself wearing several hats, 2 days a week as an automotive accessory installer(remote starts, security systems,stereo systems etc.) 2 days as an equipment operator/diesel mechanic at an excavating company, and 2 days as a residential electrician. Spreading myself thin to try to help 3 different friends keep they’re companys alive as they cannot find anyone capable to hire. So its fair to say I’ve a better understanding then most of new cars electronic systems, and residential currant capabilities. The average consumer has no clue how much it would cost to upgrade they’re house to go voltage, not only that but the vast majority of the grid outside of the city can’t even provide 480v, let alone 3 phase AC. Its laughable that tptb are pushing this inept tech on folks like its so simple. Also the fact that should a person decide to go all in, 50k$ for a E car, 400$/mo to insure, 10k+ to get 480v in they’re garage, then constantly drive up they’re power bill with all those pesky amps of juice, what have they gained? I drive a 500$ truck that gets 30mpg, and costs me 50$/mo to insure, so $150 per month covers every aspect of me being mobile, and I owe no one for it.
People that live in apartments will probably have to charge their EV somewhere else, I know someone that charges their tesla at a mall, he says it costs almost as much as buying gas…….
To illustrate, here’s a representative super dooper fast EV charger…
It requires 277/480 VAC 3 phase, and consumes 50KW while charging. Line current is 64A max. Some residences have access to a 3 phase distribution line close by, but in my experience, most do not. So, lack of 3 phase is a deal breaker for at least those super dooper fast EV chargers I looked at.
Even if it were not, assume someone made a charger that worked on single phase juice. At 240 VAC single phase, that 50KW is 208 amps! That’s 75 amps more than the standard service drop in my subdivision (125A), not to mention the other loads that service panel needs to support!