The Kz and the EV

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Yesterday I did something I doubt anyone will be doing 46 years from now – at least, not with anything that’s new right now.

That being throwing a leg over the saddle of my 1976 Kawasaki Kz900 and going for a ride – as if it were still 1976.

I was too young too ride when it was new. It was already old by the time I was old enough to ride it – and much older before I was in a position to be able to buy it. Yet it was still ready to ride, even when it was pushing 20 years old. It is now pushing 50 years old – and it is just as ready to ride. It will likely be ready to ride, again – with someone else riding it – in another 50 years from now.

How many electric cars will be ready to go even ten years from now?

Well, the car – itself – may be. They are, after all, mostly made of plastic. Check that. Plastic gets brittle over time; it cracks and – eventually – crumbles. Look at the plastic of a modern car’s headlights – made of plastic – and see how well they age. The glass headlight that my KZ900 came with back in ’76 still shines bright – and that’s not just the light. The glass looks as new today as it did then, because glass isn’t plastic and doesn’t yellow and crack, as plastic does.

The rest of the bike is made of steel and aluminum. Steel can rust, of course. And aluminum, too – but this can be retarded to near-nil if you keep the metal (and alloy) dry and clean, addressing any issues with paint flecking off before rust has a chance to dig too deep (on steel).

The one thing that did not last almost 50 years – or even ten – is the bike’s battery. That I’ve had to replace a number of times over the years. No doubt the guy who owned my Kz before I owned it also had to replace it, probably several times. Batteries do not last as long as the machinery they are hooked up to – an axiom as true for a motorcycle or a non-electric car as it is for an electric car.

But there is a critical difference.

It costs very little – in terms of the actual amount and relative to the value of the machine – to replace a motorcycle’s battery or a non-electric car’s battery. A top-of-the-line AGM (no liquid electrolyte) replacement battery for my Kz900 costs about $70. Any bike that’s still running is well worth putting $70 into. Same for any car. Spending $150 so you can start your still drivable $1,500 beater also makes sense. It’s why – historically speaking – so many people have kept putting that kind  of money into older cars (and bikes). It is much less expensive than buying a new car or bike.

But it costs thousands of dollars to replace an electric car’s battery pack – which will not last 20 much less 50 years, by dint of the nature of batteries, which gradually lose their capacity to retain charge over time. This is a physical fact. An economic fact is that an electric car’s 1,000-plus pounds of battery costs orders of magnitude more to replace than the battery that starts my KZ’s engine or any car’s engine. That alone is a problem as such because while almost anyone can afford to hand the counter man $70 (or $150) for a new battery to get their bike or car started, very few can afford to hand over the $7,500 (let alone $10,000 or more) it costs to replace an EV’s dead battery.

And there is a compounding problem.

Even if one is in a position, financially, to spend $7,500 or more for a new battery pack, who would want to spend it, given the value of the EV itself by the time it needs a new battery?

One thing EVs have exactly in common with non-electric cars and bikes like my KZ900 is that they depreciate – lose value – over time. At least, for a long time. My KZ900 is now – at last – appreciating in value, because it is so old it has become rare as well as desirable, because it is old – and so doesn’t have any of the “new” advances, such as a computer its owner can’t service and “technology” that tries to parent him as he tries to ride the thing.

But the relevant thing is that in 1986 – ten years after it was made – it was just an old bike and (at that time) not worth even half what it cost to buy when it was new. It would not have made much financial sense, back in ’86, to spend more than half what it was worth to replace its engine – if it had needed that. Leaving aside coming up with the money to do that.

What will EV owners do about that?

Will they spend a sum equivalent to half or more of the market value of their ten-year-old EV when its value is half of what it was when it was new? Where will they find the money to buy a new battery that costs half or more what their aging EV is worth?

Will they just . . . throw it away? That doesn’t sound very good for “the environment.” And speaking of that.

If one were to add up the combined weight in environmentally unfriendly materials used to make every battery my ’76 KZ900 has used up over the past 46 years it would total maybe 100 pounds or so – as opposed to the 1,000 pounds or so that go into an electric car’s battery pack, just the once. How much of those environmentally-not-so-friendly materials go into two?

How about into millions of new EVs? And then times two (or three) again for the replacement batteries. Assuming the owners can afford to buy them – or want to.

Never mind. EVs are “clean.”

The good news is, most of them probably won’t be around 46 years from now.

Or even ten.

. . .

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  1. I love watching car restoration shows, like Vice Grip Garage, and Wrench Every Day on the you tubes. I saw a you tubes on the LS engine that was gripping. The Engineer in charge was a car guy, and made it compatible with small blocks – mounts, transmission compatibility, whatnot.

    Turns out the market for replacement LS engines (and Hemis) is robust.

    Wonder after all is said and done, they’ll be still producing engines, since I doubt they count for CAFE. The replacement market has transmissions, drive shafts, rear ends, all forged new.

    You can literally get a tesla, gut the electric crap, install an LS engine, tranny and rear.

    • Hi Techie,

      I fully expect them to illegalize crate engines – as they illegalized catalytic converter test pipes – even though the replacement crate engines are modern engines and produce far fewer of the genuinely harmful emissions they pretend to be “concerned” about.

      And C02 “emissions” are their trump card.

  2. The issue with keeping these older machines going indefinitely is the rubber/plastic bits and gaskets. The items may be cheap (if you can still get them), but are typically labor intensive to replace and many are beyond the skill level of most owners. Good luck trying to get those parts for many older bikes especially if they didn’t sell that well to begin with.

    • I’m restoring a Moto-Guzzi Eldorado 850. Not a lot of them around. No problem getting engine parts, gaskets etc. Sheet metal is another story. Luckily mine is all good, just needs paint.

  3. Eric, the glass in your KZ900’s headlight (and all glass) is actually a super-cooled liquid. It will flow over time, so perhaps the bike’s next owner might notice a slight diffusion of light in 50 years. Far superior to plastic of course.

    Whatever can’t be sustained, won’t be. EVs will go the way of the dodo in due course, as they must. What do you see coming after that?

  4. I think you should review a e-motorcycle to see if you hate them as much as you think you do! How about a Surron? Mad max, as long as we can get a battery and tires we can ride!

    • Hi David,

      I have ridden several scooters, which is what we’re talking about. I have nothing against them. They’re just not my bag. An “electric motorcycle” is an oxymoron.

      • I am deeply disinterested in electric cars, and even less interested in electric “motorcycles”.

        You might as well talk to me about the relative performance of a range of front load washing machines.

        One of my friends has bought an EV, and he was twittering on about how wonderful it was, and how all these reviews on TV were showing how fast they were.

        My response…. “Does it have a V8?”. “No”. “Yawn, not interested then.”

        Currently got my TL1000S in bits, doing a light touch restoration on a few bits, trying to decide whether to buy a zinc plating setup to redo the parts that have deteriorated, or send them out to a plating company. Problem is, over here in the UK, there are not many of them any more so it all has to go mail order 🙁

  5. My 2013 DRZ400 is nearing it’s 10th birthday. She starts right up and at ~25K miles still uses no oil between changes in spite of many high RPM highway scrambles and dirt roostertails. I’ve replaced the starting battery once, a chain and sprocket set, fluids and tires. I have no idea how much an electric “motorcycle” battery would cost but I’d be willing to bet it’s more expensive than the maintenance TheZedds required. If my trusty steed already needed an expensive and possibly difficult to source major transplant I probably wouldn’t have ponied up the shekels in the first place. EV’s have no soul.

  6. Great analogy Eric! “Batteries do not last as long as the machinery they are hooked up to”.
    And the dissenters will say ‘but that’s old tech, the new lithiums are way better’
    ahhhhhhhhh, no they aren’t, as lithium batteries have been coming in my dirtbikes for many years, and they don’t last any longer than a gel-cell. And they don’t tell you they are going like the old tech units, they just don’t work one day, and your calling your bud to come pick you up, if your lucky enough to have cell coverage where dirtbikes go.
    The lithiums for bikes have a nice advantage though, in that they are significantly less weight, which matter on bikes, especially dirtbikes that go up mountains.
    There are a couple lithium manuf. that are putting two! power cells in one battery, so if one doesn’t work, you hit a little button, and hope it switches to the other one inside. I little piece of mind if your 20 miles from somewhere.
    I did pass a personal record recently, a regular lead-acid battery in my JD tractor lasted 13 years! not kidding.

    • Lithium tech is good for energy density. They do not last anywhere near as long as they claim, I have seen this in RC models (and my vapes which run on 18650 cells).

  7. Eric,

    Of course people will still be riding gas powered motorcycles far into the future, impossible to predict otherwise.

    when I was a kid, my friends and I thought the kids of the future would never learn how to tie their shoes because….velcro! How wrong we were.

    Pessimism always does seem the safe bet when trying to predict future trends, yet the worst predictions never seem to happen; war, climate change, disease, trees, starvation. People find a way.

    I am fairly positive my grandson will want to drive a real car. As a 3 yr old, his favorite toy is his pedal car, makes the engine noises and tire screeching to himself as he terrorizes the apartment complex parking lot.

  8. Your bike article makes want to get back on a motorcycle. The last bike I had was a 1982 Yamaha Maxima 650. It has been over 30 years since I’ve been on one. I did keep my motorcycle license all this time and maybe I might get another one in the future. I sure do miss that bike. Oh well….maybe just maybe.

    • Hi Allen,

      Do it! I cannot adequately convey the joy – the stress relief – that comes along for the ride. There are even new bikes well worth looking at – and that are also affordable. Hope you’ll go for it!

      • Hi Eric. I cannot agree more, I sort of lost interest in biking a few years ago (mainly as my TL is crap unless you are kicking it in the nuts), and I am just not interested in that sort of riding at high speed anymore.

        So I went out on a test ride a few weeks ago on a Royal Enfield Interceptor 650, and it was a real silly grin machine. So much fun, reminded me of how much I enjoyed biking when I had my first big bike (a CX500) in the early 1990s.

        I really want one, but we have to be cautious as I am sure you have heard about the insane energy prices over here in the UK. So I have to wait and see how that all pans out before I make the final decision.

        • Scott,

          I own a Meteor 350, and I’m awaiting the arrival of the RE Super Meteor. The Super Meteor is based on RE’s 650 twins, so it should be a sporty cruiser. I CAN’T WAIT!

    • “ might get another one in the future “

      Allen – the future is now! Go ahead it’s still a blast! At 67 I’ve been “scootering” for 50 years now. I really enjoy my Harley Road King but for starting out again that 650 probably a good idea, you’re familiar with that size and it will have enough power for the highway when needed. As with anything modern, the newer bikes have gotten heavier this 2018 Harley is noticeably heavier than the 2004 version. If I had room I’d be tempted for a mid displacement road bike for day trippin’ and use the “Road Thing” for longer hauls.

  9. Watched a few videos from the Woodward Cruise over the weekend. Jay Leno was shilling for the F-150 Lightning, going back to his “well, with these vehicles we can keep our antiques” bromide, as if people are going to accept the clear reduction in all performance aspects just so ol’ dad can keep his muscle car in the back of the garage.

    Then there was the shit show unveiling of the new electric Charger, featuring the “Dolby System” exhaust noisemaker. I get the impression that when it doesn’t sell like they want the blame will be put on the noisemaker, since that seemed to be the main selling point. I do like that they brought back the triangle Dodge logo. Too bad it was used to invoke nostalgia for this POS.

    My take is, once again they’re focusing on the sizzle and ignoring the steak. A small runabout electric commuter, something like the CVCC or Pinto, would sell well as a second vehicle, especially if the insurance and registration reflected the miles and speed driven, along with road use and physical footprint. Instead they believe they need to get the gasoholics on board first.

    As if they want to fail.

    • Jay Leno of all people should know better. He should be one of the people most against forced electric. The only electric cars should be the ones in his museum, where they belong, in the past.

      • Hi Adi,

        Jay seems like one of those guys who needs to be liked. I say this because he seems to almost never say anything that suggests he disagrees with whatever the orthodoxy of the day happens to be. He certainly knows better as regards EVs because Jay does know cars – including the history of them (probably in finer detail than I do). But he is loath to broach anything political that is controversial and so he shies away from any discussion of the reason why EVs are all-of-a-sudden a thing. Part of this has to do, no doubt, with not wanting to get on the bad side of the manufacturers – as us car journalists refer to the car companies – so as to assure he gets access to the latest stuff first, like the F150 Lightning. But Jay is so rich he could easily afford to just buy a sample and then give it away or sell it. I have never understood why some very rich people – whose affluence frees them from having to kiss anyone’s ass – still do it anyway.

        • Eric, The reason people like Jay are rich is because they promote the status quo of the ruling elite and got rich by ass kissing. The last thing Jay want’s is to be canceled.

    • Hi Mark,

      Imagine buying a new car whose manufacturer “warranted” that it would not lose more than 30 percent of its range after as little as eight years….

      Meanwhile, my 20-year old truck’s range hasn’t diminished by any percent at all.

      • I was running a DNA filter in my car for a while; it’s similar to K&N, same idea. I went back to the OEM filter, and my fuel economy is BETTER than ever! Can’t say that about an EV…

  10. Lemme see, power plants need workers, employed people who know how to operate the machine so electricity is produced, then distributed. The power plant is sixty miles away from a population center, employees need to drive to get there.

    You’ll need people out in the coal mine hauling coal to the stock pile while others are making sure the plant operates 24/7. It’s goes around the clock, doesn’t stop generating electricity.

    What you have to have in order for the battery in an EV to hold a charge, otherwise, it is no go.

    If it is a hydro-electric dam, you’ll need water flowing through 24 foot diameter pipe to drive the turbines inside the dam. You don’t want just some electricity, you want a lot of it.

    What you’ll need before you can build a dam of adequate size to produce electricity will be fuels from crude oil. Then some industrial-sized machinery to have to reduce your workload.

    Hydrocarbons are essential, can’t do much without them.

    Thousands of employees in the hydrocarbon industry make sure you have your ten gallons of gas at the pump. It is not just drilling for oil, if it’s there, you can then pump it out of the ground, but what it really is mining for oil. An oil well drilled by Conoco produced 8000 bpd, one oil well with that kind of flow did produce enough for Conoco to make some serious coin.

    You don’t need just some oil from the ground, you need millions of barrels of it. How you power civilization. Hydrocarbons to the rescue.

    You can gas up, drive to the power plant, work for eight hours, then go home. The next round of employees show up for the second shift, then the third shift gets there after that.

    All anyone has to do is jump in their car and drive somewhere where you desire to be. Why have a 1000 pound battery when all you need is 20 pounds of gas or diesel so your engine can move your car about 70 miles or so?

    The crickets are singing these days, plenty to eat. Grasshoppers, hundreds and hundreds of them all over the place. Not going to starve at all. The cucumbers and potatoes are in ample supply right down at the garden, don’t need to eat bugs when you can have some boiled potatoes with a cucumber salad of one kind or another.

    It is still summer, the living is easy.

  11. Is the FED Setting a CBDC Recession Trap?

    “Inflation Reduction Act.” Buried in the text of the bill and a March 2022 Executive Order from Joe Biden are fine-print passages about a new financial technology that the U.S. government will enact and pilot. It’s called the Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC).

    Unlike Bitcoin, the digital currency is controlled by the federal government. While they maintain control over factors like interest rates within the currency, they also have built-in mechanisms that include “programmatic algorithms” in the currency. These algorithms amount to Chinese Communist-style control over your money. How fast you can spend your money, where you can spend it, and even the things you buy will be subject to “government approval” before the transaction is approved.

    Anything that can be controlled and regulated from a purchase or transaction standpoint would be at the mercy of U.S. government algorithms. Drive a gas-powered vehicle? Your digital currency account will only let you spend so much money each month at the pump. It sounds unbelievable, but this is what is on the horizon.

    • ‘“Inflation Reduction Act.” Buried in the text of the bill and a March 2022 Executive Order from Joe Biden are fine-print passages about … Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC).’ — Anon1

      The author is correct about the executive order mentioning CBDC, but not the Inflation Reduction Act, as far as I can tell. Its enrolled text is posted here:

      A search for ‘digital’ (Cntl-F) turns up one hit: ‘[IRS] to provide digital asset monitoring and compliance activities’.

      Searches for ‘currency’ and ‘CBDC’ turn up nothing.

      So CBDC is not a ‘law’ yet. No worries — it’ll get slipped into the next ‘must pass’ bill as a 3 am mark-up. 🙁

  12. I’ve read and heard about “battery technology” coming to save the day. Any day now. It’s a simple observation that battery technology has been in development since well before I was born and has gained very little ground. Even the common batteries used in cars, motorcycles, boats and miscellaneous battery packs are heavy, toxic, and can’t seem to escape the dreaded “memory” issues.

    Batteries are just a mobile chemistry experiment in progress anyway. They can produce bio-chemicals like mRNA at the nanocellular level but batteries remain huge hunks of primitive ionic pools. You got your potatoes and your lemons. Or your lead or nickel or lithium. Nothing nanocellular going on there.

    We’re still boiling water to turn turbines. There are no flying cars, Star Trek styled shuttle craft or warp drives. No phasers or photon torpedoes.

    Gene Rodenberry and Isaac Asimov had wonderful imaginations. But our science decided it was more necessary to fulfill the vision of Orwell instead. And to bullshit us with smoke and mirrors because, hey, most people are too stupid to understand the truth anyway.

    It will be interesting to see how the paper over the dismal failure of EVs due to the road block of battery technology that isn’t coming to save the day.

    Well that combined with laying massive wires between transformer stations that distribute the product of boiling water. The actual Tesla could have maybe fixed that situation but he was dismantled by the government for the benefit of the corporate interests they preferred.

    What a complete joke. And the jokes on us.

    • The government has stupid solutions for the climate change lies……technology that is far more destructive to the environment…..

      Lithium batteries:
      Can’t be recycled = really green energy….haha

      95% of lithium batteries aren’t recycled, Solar panels can’t be recycled, Used wind turbine blades can’t be recycled, Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds, they are made from fiberglass.

      A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, (tesla batteries go up to 1800 lb., hummer battery is 3000 lb. ) It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.
      It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth’s crust for just one battery.” For the larger batteries multiply all that by 2 X.

      Sixty-eight percent of the world’s cobalt, a significant part of a battery, comes from the Congo. Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material. Should we factor in these diseased kids as part of the cost of driving an electric car?”
      95% of lithium batteries aren’t recycled

    • EM,
      They have no need to “paper over the dismal failure of EVs”. They want you walking, biking, or riding the bus or train. Period. Infrastructure is therefore unnecessary. Especially since few can ever afford one in the first place. Hell, at the rate we’re going, few will be able to afford ANY car or truck, EV or ICE, new or used.

  13. ‘Will they just . . . throw [the EV battery] away? That doesn’t sound very good for “the environment.”’ — eric

    We’re going to find out soon — because the US fedgov now subsidizes the production of EV batteries, in the same manner that Europe in the 1980s subsidized the production of ‘wine lakes’ and ‘butter mountains.’ Ford CEO Jim Farley in an interview at Pebble Beach:

    “The biggest benefit [of the ‘climate act’] isn’t actually the EV consumer credits, it’s the $35 per kilowatt-hour support for battery production in the country. We’re bringing the battery production. We could easily have done that in Mexico or some other place, [but] now there’s a huge financial incentive [for US battery production].”

    Ahhh … now we grok why GM is building battery plants in three different states, Ford is building US battery plants, and other corporate lemmings will follow.

    ‘Industrial policy’ is the polite name for this cockamamie boondoggle; ‘Soviet-style central planning’ is a coolly factual description.

    Predictably the subsidy will result in massive overcapacity. US battery plants probably won’t be competitive with Asian ones. But that’s okay too — a $3,750 tax credit to EV buyers for domestically-made batteries PAYS them to purchase uncompetitive products.

    Squalid dodges like the EV battery scam are what the late Jane Jacobs used to call ‘transactions of decline.’ Watch US living standards gurgle down the drain, as dark satanic mills churn out toxic mountains of landfill-clogging lithium-ion batteries.

  14. WE, you and I, and every human you know of, ARE THE CARBON “THEY” WANT TO RECYCLE….

    Never forget that…and I hope Eric had a good ride.

    He deserves it!!

  15. EVs are “clean.” — eric

    But with our foul exhalations, you and I are not. There’s been an ominous overnight shift in the Narrative:

    “Throughout the landmark climate law, passed this month, is language written specifically to address the Supreme Court’s justification for reining in the E.P.A. [in West Virginia v EPA]. The new law amends the Clean Air Act to define carbon dioxide produced by the burning of fossil fuels as an “air pollutant.”NYT

    “In the predawn hours before the legislation passed the Senate, Republicans fiercely fought the language behind closed doors,” adds the Slimes.

    DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS – defining CO2 as an air pollutant? Me neither. It’s another stunning example of both ‘3 am markup behind closed doors’ and ‘passing it to find out what’s in it’ (pace Nancy Pelosi).

    And what’s with dropping the bill’s widely touted title “Inflation Reduction Act” now that it’s signed, to instead call it the “climate act” – the term used throughout the NYT article? So the old title was just a diversion from its real purpose, now that the trap is sprung?

    What went down in Clowngress is a monument to legislative deception, opacity and bad faith. Now that it’s ‘law,’ Demonrats openly admit that it’s a death warrant for hydrocarbon fuels, via defining CO2 as a poisonous gas.

    Have we had enough of this crap? If the R-party wins in November, will the “climate act” become their next notorious example of “mend, don’t end”?

    • How long until carbonated beverages are banned? I routinely exchange CO2 tanks at the local welding shop for the purposes of beer brewing. When yeast eats sugar anaerobically (i.e., without oxygen) it produce alcohol and CO2. So I can “bottle condition” my beer, like the old days (rather than force carbonate) but most breweries will likely go out of business if they’re forced to do that.

      The soda pop business has no such method available. Caca Cola will never produce bubbles on its own. Or Sprite, or 7-up, or anything like that.

      Of course, a double standard that excludes large corporations would not shock me.

      • My Dad was into home brewing beer back in the late ’70s and early ’80s. He’d make soda for us, which was bottle-conditioned using champagne yeast. It was probably mildly alcoholic, but not enough to be concerned about.

    • Sit in your EV when charging and get microwaved and if you are unlucky the lithium fire bomb battery will catch fire and incinerate you….


      Charging the car creates substantial amounts of dirty electricity (DE). When you charge your car in the garage, you are putting extremely high levels of DE onto the wires of your entire home. turn your house into a microwave oven….lol

      This is especially problematic as most people charge the car overnight when the occupants are sleeping – the time of day when we want our EMF exposure to be as low as possible.

      Some of the general symptoms of EMF radiation exposure include:

      Anxiety and depression
      Fatigue and lack of energy
      Mood changes
      Changes in blood pressure
      Heart conditions
      Muscle pain and neuralgia
      Possible fertility issues
      However, the major cause for concern when it comes to EMF exposure in vehicles in drowsiness. This symptom isn’t unique to exposure in vehicles, but is obviously a big problem if you’re behind the wheel.

      watch out for EV drivers they are dangerous….lol

    • Higher CO2 means more food, new study confirms

      lowering CO2 = less food = starvation = depopulation = wef agenda 2030 goal.

      Among them is agricultural output and global greening. the elevated atmospheric CO2 concentrations we have today (420 ppm) are acting as plant fertilization that is profoundly boosting crop yields. That’s nothing less than a blessing.

      0.8% more crop per 1 ppm CO2 increase

    • 95.1% of all electrical energy comes from so called dirty non green sources
      (green source solar and wind supply 4.9%)….

      so 95.1% of EV’s are powered by dirty energy, so why switch from ice vehicles with their ultra low .00001% emissions engines that are far cleaner then dirty power stations??

      The ice engine vehicle is being replaced by a high emission EV, that makes sense….lol

      • hahaha….green energy isn’t green……the 4.9%

        Solar panels:

        The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicone dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled.
        Solar panels can’t be recycled…..what will they do with them (and wind turbine blades)? throw them down old mine shafts like nuclear waste?…

        solar panels are toxic. They sterilize the ground they sit on. Birds that fly over a solar farm are roasted mid-flight.
        Have you researched the temperature directly above a solar farm?? These farms have been accused of creating warming in the regions around them.

        The alarmists will always show you pictures of solar panels on green grass – which have to taken as soon as the panels are installed. They leach cadmium and other toxic chemicals and sterilize the soil. Just try to find anything growing under a solar farm that has stood for a few years.
        And the landmass that both wind and solar take up will take up most of the farmland in America. Right now we’re not even at 3% electrical production of both. We’re going down a doomed path!

        Wind turbines

        Wind turbines are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades. Sadly, both solar arrays and windmills kill birds, bats, sea life, and migratory insects.

        Wind turbines are junk energy yes the cost is enormous! They have a lifespan of roughly maybe 20 years and to decommission one costs $500,000! And the landmass that both wind and solar take up will take up most of the farmland in America. Right now we’re not even at 3% electrical production of both. We’re going down a doomed path!

        Used wind turbine blades can’t be recycled, Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds, they are made from fiberglass.

        The average wind farm has 150 turbines. Each wind turbine requires 80 gallons of oil for lubrication, and this isn’t vegetable oil; this is a PAO synthetic oil based on crude… 12,000 gallons. Once a year, that oil must be replenished.

        they leak oil from their motors. They cannot be recycled so they are buried in Landfills. They use more electricity than they create. They can fling ice for hundreds of meters. They kill large predatory birds, bats and insects. Their infrasound negatively affect the hearts of humans and animals that live near them. The huge cement footings damage aquifers.

        But truly, there is no making sense of these people anymore.
        They are ready to shell out hundreds of billions to take over arable acreage with solar panels even as we face a food crisis, and festoon the countryside with bird-slaughtering windmills rather than permit more pipelines and refineries to open.

      • anon 1,
        Whether power stations are “dirty” or not is debatable. What’s not debatable is the transmission loss from the power plant to the point of use. The electric grid is far from anything resembling efficient use of power. Never has been. It’s just very convenient to have wall current. Running power lines overhead, on already existing poles, is also cheaper than running gas mains all over the countryside for hot water, cooking, and drying clothes. Never mind that the electrical generation of heat is the poster child of “inefficiency”.
        The goal has nothing to do with any legitimate environmental effect. It has to do with getting you out of your car. Easier to control people if they can’t go where they please, when they please.

        • Electrical power production is dirty and the EMF radiation from the transmission/distribution is dirty…..

          Sit in your EV when charging and get microwaved and if you are unlucky the lithium fire bomb battery will catch fire and incinerate you….

          Health damage from EMF radiation from EV’s

          Since Tesla is an electric car with a large battery and an electric motor, it emits high amounts of EMF radiation. The latest models emit high levels of electromagnetic radiation.

          Dangers of EMF Radiation from Tesla Cars and Other Electric Cars

          According to a study by Scripps Clinic Research Foundation, high levels of EMF from EVs make the drivers drowsy and sleepy while driving. Based on the study, drivers who are exposed to high levels of EMF while driving are likely to sleep 52 minutes faster than those exposed to low levels of EMF. Is this why there are so many tesla, EV, crashes?

          In addition, exposure to radiation while driving can result in headaches, neck stiffness, and dry eyes or blurred vision. Long-term exposure to these sources of EMF radiation may have long-term health complications. EMF Radiation from Electric Cars
          blurred vision… this causing crashes?

          According to Dr. Joel Moskowitz at the University of California Berkeley, hybrid cars and other electric cars have increased levels of ELF that cause cancer, increase the level of oxidative stress that leads to DNA fragmentation, cause cell damage, fertility issues, drowsiness, etc.

          So drive an EV and get…..damaged DNA , cell damage, get sterilized, get drowsiness and crash….lol

          Electric cars, including the Tesla EV do emit a dangerous amount of EMF especially around the glove box and at the driver’s window. Electric cars do emit more radiation compared to standard fossil fuel vehicles.

          If you sit in your EV when connected to the super charger/ high speed charger you get microwaved, stay away from the car when it is charging.

          this will be interested in the middle of the night in a dark parking lot in the middle of the night when it is snowing and freezing out….lol….these Ev`s are a safety hazard in many ways…

          Avoid Sitting in the Car While Charging the Battery
          When supercharging the battery, a high amount of EMF is emitted, therefore, do not stay inside the car.

          Charging the car creates substantial amounts of dirty electricity (DE). When you charge your car in the garage, you are putting extremely high levels of DE onto the wires of your entire home. turn your house into a microwave oven….lol

          To supply electricity for EV`s the electrical grid has to be expanded by 500%, so the EMF radiation from the transmission, distribution lines will increase 500%, destroying people`s health.

          This is especially problematic as most people charge the car overnight when the occupants are sleeping – the time of day when we want our EMF exposure to be as low as possible.

    • I wouldn’t hold my breath for November Jim, remember how Orange Fail was going to “repeal and replace” Obamacare? Repeal would be fine, fool me twice and all that. CO2 being declared a pollutant is pure insanity, no CO2 = no plant life = no oxygen = no people, though that’s probably their ultimate goal.


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