Gas Mileage Myopia?

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Gas mileage is a consideration, often important when the price of gas doubles as a result of political considerations – such as the current attempt to make driving a non-electric car more expensive so as to make people think that buying an electric car will “save them money.”

But it shouldn’t be the only consideration, for that would exclude other – possibly more important – considerations.

Such as saving money, for instance. As by not spending it on any new car, electric or otherwise.

It is unlikely that the money you will lose by spending it  will “save” you anything overall – in italics to emphasize the other considerations all too many people do not take into account when obsessing about gas mileage uber alles, exclusively.

So let’s do that now.

First, there is the money you’ll spend on the new car, itself. Even if you “only” spend $20,000 or so – very hard to do these days because there are only a few new cars that are priced at that level and all of them are small cars that are not generally suited to be family cars – you have still just spent $20,000.

Plus taxes and interest.

Plus the cost of full-coverage insurance on a new car, which you must pay unless you can afford to pay cash up front for the new car because you are required to buy full-coverage insurance on a financed car. The cost of this is a function of the cost of replacing the new car, if it is totaled (or damaged) in a wreck.

You will spend a great deal more – on everything except gas – if the new car is electric.

Ford has just bumped up the cost of its electric Mach E and F-150 truck by about $8,000 each – which buys enough gas (even at doubled cost) to run whatever non-electric car you currently own for years.

During which time, you will not be making any monthly payments.

It is true, of course, you will have to pay for gas. But that isn’t going to cost you more than what you spend on a new electric car – plus what you’ll spend on the charging apparatus and (inevitably) on a replacement battery – which will cost more than another $8,000  – but never mind.

Look! A squirrel!

You may have to pay for repairs. But unless they are catastrophic, paying for them will still cost you less than making payments every month for years on end. Not counting the opportunity cost of the money you won’t have on hand to take advantage of other . . . opportunities. Or, necessities – which you may have to finance because you haven’t got the money to pay for them.

As the saying goes, do the math.

Let’s say the car you have needs a $2,000 repair. That sounds like a lot of money, when considered in isolation – and out of context. That $2,000 repair breaks down to about $160 per month over twelve months. What kind of new car could you buy that would “save you money” via lower monthly payments? When factored over two years, the cost of that $2k repair diminishes to about $80 per month.

It is a great deal less money, at any rate than the just-added $8,000 cost on top of the cost of a new electric Ford (the cost of new Teslas and other new electrics have bounded upward recently, too).

And during those months, the car you have will not have cost you nearly as much as any new car via depreciation.

This latter is arguably the biggest consideration when considering the total cost of any vehicle, new or used – gas or electric – because it is a huge consideration.

Because it is a huge cost – regularly not considered.

Whatever you buy that’s new will typically be worth about 20 percent less after as little as one year. If you bought a brand-new car for $20,000 that means it cost you about $4,000 in depreciation during the first year of driving it. Will driving it have “saved” you more on gas than what you just lost on depreciation? If it is a new electric car, the depreciation curve is even steeper – because of the depreciated capacity of its battery and the massive cost of replacing it.

Then add in what you didn’t save on taxes and full-coverage insurance.

Plus – if you are unlucky enough to live in a state (such as my state, Virginia) that mulcts every car owner every year via a “personal property tax” that is based on the value of the vehicle. You will pay multiple times more – to the tune, potentially, of hundreds of dollars annually – in personal property tax on a new car vs. an older car.

Especially one that has already reached the trough of the depreciation curve.

As a personal example, my 2002 pick-up truck. It is now so old its “book value” is very low – although its value to me as way to actually save money is very high. The truck was paid-for years ago – and so I make no monthly payments and can buy the lowest-cost, most basic insurance that only covers the cost of damages to other people’s vehicles, if I damage them with my truck. The cost of this coverage is extremely little – especially in relation to what I would be obliged to spend to “cover” any new vehicle, let alone a new $50,000 electric truck.

It has also cost me essentially nothing – in depreciation. Because I bought it when it was already depreciated, as a used truck, about twelve years ago. The person who bought it new paid the depreciation.

My truck rarely gets better than about 23 MPG but because it costs me so little to own, I can afford the cost of gas – even now that it has doubled due to political considerations. I keep it because of economic considerations. Because I know there is no way to “save money” by replacing it with something that costs more to buy – and to finance – that will also cost me in the form of depreciating value each year, for the next ten or more. By which time it won’t be worth much more than my truck already isn’t.

But it will have have cost me a fortune by the time I get there.

. . .

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40 COMMENTS

  1. You have the same problem with people who drive for ride share companies like Lyft and Uber. They never consider ALL the costs of driving for those services. When you figure it out, you quickly discover, that you aren’t making any money (some cases LOSING money) and you end up with a worn out car to boot.

    Also figured out expenses for a friend delivering pizza, after he talked about always having no money. Asked if he ever figured expenses for doing that. He hadn’t. He was LOSING money doing that part of the job for the restaurant he was working for. He never delivered another pizza (the management was mad at me, because all their drivers quit when my friend told them how to figure their expenses).

    Trying to talk a friend out of driving for Lyft. She should know better too (teacher), but still does some driving. At least the crime got her to quit driving in the city (Chicago).

    • With “Chollie” (Charlie), his Chinese Coolie assistant, who put up with “Mister Ma-Gloo”? What do YOU think? The World has lost any sense of humor, unfortunately.

      • “O-K, Bloss [Boss]” -Chollie

        Oh, Douglas, hey, don’t forget how Mr. Magoo “negatively portrays and stereotypes the blind and visually impaired” (or something like that). What a sterile world they are making for us, in which nothing and no one can be poked fun at, except for normals, strait males, and Italians and the Irish. Seems like people of all sorts got along much better and everyone was much more comfortable before everyone started worrying about ‘offending’ someone…and meanwhile, the people who were supposed to be offended usually didn’t give a damn, they were just happy to laugh along and to have the tension broken….until the cultural Marxists came along.

        Hey, I’d bet Krazy Kat would be right in style today! Being she was in love with Ignatz The Mouse, they could say she was some kind of inter-species-ist, and come up with a few dozen new genders with corresponding pronouns…….

        • One of my co-workers is blind and he breaks every stereotype there is. He uses a screen reader that is set to max speed, so fast we can’t understand it. The body adapts and in this case his hearing compensated. Funny guy who is quick with a verbal jab. Has a beautiful black lab Guide Dog that comes with him to work. Very good at his job as a server administrator with over 200 to manage.

          • Thanks for that Manse, gives ya hope that many things can be overcome.
            I lost a nerve in my right arm and lost most of the use of my hand, yet I figured out how to ride a dirtbike, and while I suffer managing the bike, I still can do it and my riding style has adjusted over 2o years that I can now race them, and don’t take last place. If I look way back, I would have said no way you’re riding a bike again.
            Have a quadriplegic friend who has never given up, from 18 to now 58. He is an inspiration to the human race.

  2. There won’t be any energy supply to charge your EV and if there is it will cost a fortune, you won’t be driving.

    The wef/globalist/communist morons are destroying reliable cheap energy production because their fake science gaia religious cult, says there is global warming, but there is none, they are insane.

    Unreliable Wind & Solar Primary Reason For Rocketing Power Prices because….

    The cost of additional transmission lines running 1000’s of miles from nowhere; the staggering cost of running highly-inefficient Open Cycle Gas Turbines (or diesel fuelled ship engines) to cope with total collapses in wind and solar output for backup; and running traditional coal-fired power plants inefficiently for backup– all add up and power consumers get whacked for every last cent of it.

    Plus they are shutting down reliable gas, coal, nuc, energy production so you will freeze to death.

    As to coal-fired power plants, the subsidies to wind and solar mean they can’t dispatch power to the grid according to consumer demand (the subsidies allow wind and solar operators to underbid them) but they are still required (by government directions) to remain online and burning fuel, ready to dump power back into the grid whenever the sun sets and/or calm weather sets in – what’s called ‘spinning’ reserve.

    The mandates, targets and massive subsidies to wind and solar were designed to wreck the business model of reliable generators, which they have duly done. Now, it’s households and businesses that are left to suffer the consequences.

    Europe’s renewable energy push has made power prices increasingly high with the nations retiring too much baseload generation, mainly coal, and pushing too hard on boosting renewable energy.

    “We hear a lot about heat deaths and that’s a real problem, what we don’t hear is many more people all across the world die from cold” Mr Lomborg told Sky News host Chris Kenny.

    About nine times more people die from cold than from heat.

    “Now if the prices goes through the roof it’s very likely people won’t be able to heat their homes as well and that will mean many more people dying from cold”.

    Five out of every six homes in Britain use natural gas for heating and 40% of the electricity is generated using gas. Although almost none of that comes from Russia, the spiking global market for gas is still driving up UK utility bills from $2,000 a year for the average home to as high as nearly 8,000 by next spring. Some European governments like France and Italy are capping such increases. The UK is instead offering rebates. But analysts say those measures are nowhere near enough to help the poorest.

    Stephen Jarvis: If those bill increases go through for this coming winter, more than half of the entire country will be classed as being in energy fuel poverty. That’s how extreme the rises are.

    News Announcer: In the UK, fuel poverty is where more than 10% of household income goes to energy.

    Climate Change Panic Costs Us Trillions, Hurts the Poor, and Fails to Fix the Planet.

    https://stopthesethings.com/2022/08/29/mystery-solved-unreliable-wind-solar-primary-reason-for-rocketing-power-prices/?fbclid=IwAR1Dre2fNdB0cCRbeJcxkwRaQkht6HNPqTUXXRNHG_HEXw4toHijJ7dI0Rs

    • The wef/globalist/communist/satanist morons just destroyed the economy and wasted a trillion dollars over their fake bat germ bs over the last 2 1/2 years, now they are going to cause worse destruction and waste more trillions of dollars over their fake science gaia religious cult, global warming bs nightmare, but there is none, they are insane.

  3. Okay, I’m back, it’s hot as hades outside and I have too much time on my hands—which I really like. I am a professional ‘try not to do anything constructive today’ person, and I have to brag on myself, I am very good at it.
    The truth is, we don’t need the government, as I think Eric has said many times. We absolutely don’t need them, they do need us though. Without us, they collapse. I cannot think of a thing that my taxes go to that benefit me personally. They just steal my money and always want more.
    We can live without electricity, grocery stores. I don’t want to, but it can be done. I do like AC/heat, lights, but life won’t end without them. Well granny might if she is on a vent, oops. I could grow my own food, I don’t want to, it goes against me not being productive. We could be and are living a very easy life compared to our predecessors, but if TPTB want it to go away, well it can on the surface. The black market will flourish, bartering will become the norm. You cannot kill the free market. Like RG said, so what if the Big Three fail, someone else will come along and fill their void.
    There is no need for us to go back to caves as they want. They might be the ones in the caves and we’ll be sitting on our porches rocking back and forth and talking about the good old days when we had easy electricity. But thank goodness we know the dumb old guy down the road that fixed us up with a generator and some black market diesel or gas to run it with.
    Don’t overanalyze this, but we are headed to a breaking point, sooner than later.

    • Elaine – “ professional ‘try not to do anything constructive today’ person “

      As a retired ME Tech, right there with you. Told my daughter #1 “doesn’t take me all day to do nothin’. “

      Lucky for me I didn’t get anything thrown at me – she works three college teaching jobs since they’ll pay admin all the money and the contract professors get bupkis. Actually I do help her and the son in law with house and car maintenance so I’m not that much if a slacker! I do enjoy my free time however.

  4. I’ll put my two cents in. Newsome and California and any other crazy person can regulate and pass all the laws they want to, but it will never happen—in my lifetime anyway. The technology is not there—-and oil/coal/nuclear are proven, cheap energy sources.
    What would people think that finally got to have electricity/AC/gas powered cars years ago and see people now-a-days trying to get rid of all of that because of our ‘fragile’ planet. Our planet is not fragile, look at all the things we consider catastrophic. It is to humans, but not to the earth. It’s just doing what’s it’s been doing forever, we usually just happen to be in the way when it’s belching, burping, stretching, snowing, raining/flooding.
    ‘They’ are/have gradually amped up the push for EV’s, now coming out full in our face. This will be similar to gun control soon. Like Mike said above about all the other vehicles being EV. When is that going to happen? When people that depend on ICE cars/machines for a living, which is all of us, then it will get bad. I don’t think it will get to that point though. I think there is still enough of us to convince ‘they/them’ that what they are trying to do will not work and we don’t want it anyway. And yes, we have guns. It just hasn’t quiet got to that point yet—-getting a lot closer though.
    Now for one other thing, to lighten the mood and to enlighten, lol—-a little Dilbert.

    Dilbert – The Knack “The Curse of the Engineer” Well, just go to YouTube and watch it. So funny, my late husbands’ (ME) favorite video. Important to watch the correct one, but can watch all of them. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dilbert+the+knack

      • BrentP! Yay! I love that one, so funny. My husband used to kid about people that went into civil engineering, he said they couldn’t hack real engineering. ME’s are the smartest, lol. He used to work with a lot of chemical and electrical engineers and whoever else when he was in Anniston helping to destroy the chemical weapons there. When he first started, they asked him if he was scared of working around the chemicals. He laughed and told them he worked around more dangerous chemicals when he was at the steel plant than what they had in Anniston. At the time he was with SAIC. He eventually ended up at Leidos (the company split) and in Richmond, Kentucky at the Bluegrass facility getting it started to destroy more chemicals.

  5. I said this on another EP thread but I think worth repeating here:

    Half or more of my friends are obsessed with mpg. I’ve never understood it.
    Even had a cousin trade in a brand new Toyota FJ Cruiser because it got ‘bad’ mpg according to her. I pointed out that she lost approx. $10K in the trade which would have bought a LOT of gas, enough to make the mpg of the FJ un-important. Crickets.
    My brother and I laugh about it all the time. “Give me a 10mpg car/truck, so we can enjoy it”
    We even both bought a few 8.1L GM’s cause the owners couldn’t deal with the 10-12 mpg when gas would go up. We stole them and the savings paid for gas for them almost forever, and darn nice trucks (for the time).
    What’s weird though, is now with gas way up again, you can’t get any deals on used V8 trucks.
    Maybe Eric would know why?
    Eric replied that V8’s are becoming rare and the people that have them know they probably won’t be able to replace them. Good explanation.

  6. Not to mention that fuel is STILL less than half the cost of operating a motor vehicle. Back in the ’80s when I was writing off vehicle expense on my taxes, the IRS allowed a standard mileage deduction in lieu of actual cost accounting. The rate was 50 cents per mile, which of course means it cost more than that. The IRS isn’t giving away free rides. Back then, fuel was a bit over a dollar per gallon. Which means that 50 cents would buy me enough fuel for about 10 miles. Which means that fuel cost for operating a motor vehicle at that time was about 10%. A lot higher now, but I doubt it’s broken 50%. And of course, don’t forget that State and Federal gas tax brings in more money for government than it does for the oil company off a gallon of gas.

  7. There is another way EVs cost you: TIME.

    And while one can always get more money, one can’t get more time.

    EVs mean spending a lot of time waiting for them to charge.

    EVs mean your trips will be A LOT longer.

    EVs mean you will have to plan every trip around access to a charger.

    EVs mean you will spend more time trying to find anyone who will fix them.

  8. ATTENTION: This is really bad….Before the EV (with a 40 kWh battery) goes one foot the emissions/pollution just from manufacturing it is equal to driving an ice diesel 89,400 km (50,550 miles), about 7 years driving. This shows how stupid the government is pushing EV’s with their lithium fire bomb batteries (95% of lithium batteries are NOT recycled), this is an environmental catastrophe.

    Then the battery dies in 10 years and you start over, another 89,400 km equivalent of pollution, (per 40 kwh battery), inflicted on the earth, just from the battery manufacture…lol….and it will only cost you $22,000…lol…

    Ice diesel vs EV fuel economy comparison:

    To go 100 miles the ice diesel burns 1.36 gallons of diesel in it’s super clean .000001% emission engine.

    the EPA tells us that modern gas powered cars produce 98 – 99% less pollution than cars from the 1960s and 1970s. modern cars have .000001% emissions but that isn’t good enough they want zero, they are liars though, the new EV’s pollute more…lol

    To go 100 miles the EV burns 43 lb of coal…… 43 lb of dirty coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station producing huge emissions destroying the environment.

    ATTENTION: remember they are CEV’s Coal Electric Vehicles….
    Plus the added bonus of a lithium fire bomb battery in the car….lol

    Ice diesel:
    The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel, capable of a claimed 88.3 mpg imperial, or 73.5 mpg U.S.
    it has a 971 mile range, the perfect car.

    Emissions CO2 per km. …. the ice Golf is cleaner then an EV

    The Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion has emissions of 85g CO2 per km. it is even cleaner (less emissions) than a Toyota Prius or an EV….

    A bloomberg article states, “A current-model large EV car with a battery produced and charged in an average European Union country emits about 88 grams of CO2 per kilometer,

    it weighs 1125 kg, 2480 lb, the new EV’s are over 4000 lb. it weighs 40% less.

    EV
    What test drivers are actually getting driving in the real world driving EV’s is they are getting 2.4 miles of range for every kwh
    They are using 41.66 kwh to go 100 miles. (.4166 kwh per mile) = 83 mpg
    ATTENTION: 83 mpg is based on electricity just coming out of a wall plug,
    in reality 4.80 gallons of fuel or 43 lb of coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station = 20.8 mpg.
    These EV’s are getting real 20.8 mpg
    So to go 100 miles the EV burns 43 lb of coal

    VW diesel 100 mile fuel consumption = 1.36 gallons @ $4.00 gallon = $5.44
    EV 100 mile fuel consumption = 41.66 kwh @ $0.40 kwh = $16.64

    So to end up with 41.66 kwh of electricity which is equivalent to 1.20 gallons of gas to push the EV 100 miles down the road 4.80 gallons of fuel or 43 lb of coal were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station, remember net 25% efficiency. 100 miles using 4.80 gallons = 20.8 mpg,

    New EV’s are over 4000 lb, that is why they get bad fuel economy. The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel weighs 40% less, helping it to get far greater fuel economy.

    In the real world the EV with the large 90 kwh battery (some EV batteries are smaller) had only 216 mile range.
    the 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel has a 971 mile range.

    Energy density:
    In order to go 200 miles the EV had to carry around a 1000 lb battery (some tesla batteries weigh 1800 lb, the hummer battery is 3000 lb.)

    In order to go 200 miles the 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel had to only carry 9.52 lb of fuel.

    There is the big difference the diesel ice car only had to carry 9.52 lb of fuel to go 200 miles the EV had to carry a 1000 lb battery, this has a huge effect on fuel economy

    The 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion costs $24,355 U.S., EV’s start at about $45,000
    there is a $20,000 incentive to buy the Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion…lol

    20.8 mpg….lol…..these EV’s use more fuel so pollute more then ice vehicles

    most new gas or diesel ice cars get better fuel economy, cost way less, use far fewer resources to manufacture, don’t have lithium fire bomb batteries, last three times as long as EV’s….

    NOTE:
    Thermal efficiency of power plants using coal, petroleum, natural gas or nuclear fuel and converting it to electricity are around 33% efficiency, natural gas is around 40%. Then there is average 6% loss in transmission, then there is a 5% loss in the charger, another 5% loss in the inverter, the electric motor is 90% efficient so another 10% loss before turning the electricity into mechanical power at the wheels.

    33% – 6% – 5% – 5% – 10% = 25% efficiency for EV’s. In very cold weather EV’s are 12% efficient

    a gallon of gas retains 100% of its chemical-kinetic-electrical energy potential throughout the entirety of its supply chain. This is extraordinarily effective when compared to electricity in either transmitted or battery-stored forms – which does not retain its potential and can lose from 15 to 45% of the generated kilowatt hours of electricity during the delivery and battery-charging/depletion/use processes.
    ……… instead of 26% loss (during delivery and use) this says it is up to a 45% loss

    33% – 45% = 15% efficiency for EV’s. Then in very cold weather EV’s are 8% efficient..another 50% loss….
    EV’s are looking pretty useless, they are being pushed on people through lying….

    An EV just sitting loses:
    tesla says a daily 3%-5% stationary range consumption.” (just parked)
    So Tesla says it’s normal to fully discharge itself in under 3 weeks. Keep this in mind when parking it somewhere 90kwh @ $0.40 per kwh = another $36.00 per week loss just parked…lol

    Plus the cost of the battery, which is huge, you have to store the electricity in the very, very expensive battery, that is the killer for EV’s right there, the expensive, rapidly wearing out battery.
    the tesla $22,000 battery is used up, worn out in 100,000 miles.
    ATTENTION: this works out to $22.00 per 100 miles it is costing you for the battery.

    greens say burning 43 lb of coal to power their stupid EV is cleaner then burning 1.36 gallons of diesel in an ultra clean .0000001% emission ice diesel engine….lol….they have lied to everybody and got away with it….lol

    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15118719/2014-volkswagen-golf-bluemotion-photos-and-info-auto-shows/

  9. I sometimes ask myself. Is it that people are actually too dumb to ask a few questions and do a little middle school arithmetic? Or is it just an excuse to glom on to the newest shiny box or fad and attempt to sit at the “cool kids” table. I think the answer is yes.
    This has been going on for good a while. Long before evs were a thing I knew plenty of people who would drop 20-40k for a newer more fuel efficient car instead of just keeping a paid for less efficient older model. Many people just can’t math, or imagine driving the latest payment-with-interest-shiny-box so strangers who don’t know or care bout them will be impressed with their appearance of wealth or virtue.
    The public indoctrination camps and media/advertising blitz would make make Goebbles envious.

    • Hi Sicilian,

      I think you’re on to something there. If I still lived in Northern Virginia, I’d be regarded as a “hick” for driving a 20-year-old truck. There are neighborhoods up there that prohibit parking old trucks (and cars) in the neighborhood, for they “blight” the neighborhood.

      • Amazing that those in “NOVA” that fancy themselves as “enlightened”, “free-thinking”,”progressive”, and “tolerant” can be the worst control freaks and tryants, especially when they get a bit of “power”, such as being on the HOA board. There’s actually an LDS scripture that perfectly describes them, penned by ol’ Joe Smith some 183 years ago:

        “39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

        40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.

        41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

        42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—

        43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy..”

        (Doctrine and Covenants, Section 121, verses 39-43)

        BTW, ran across this on “Me Toob” (YouTube), posted by some Aussie:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Tpi3fsOdU

        Who cares what mileage it gets, its about FUN. Or is that no longer ALLOWED?

        • Rusty and the other 14 in the COB need to do some readin’ of ole Joe’s missive. They actually have I’m sure. They are ripe for an Abinadi to come around and explain to them the scriptures they don’t understand.

  10. Thanks for posting this article chock full of common sense. My frugal coworker and I would have these discussions shaking our heads at others “saving money” by getting a new car with better mileage every time gas prices went up. Really an excuse for another shiny new bauble. Not new for long out in the company parking lot rotting away in the constant wet northwest weather day after day.

    Sales tax and license fees are north of 10% here in WA, that’s thousands you’ll never see again. Just that wasted money buys many fixes for the old rig! About 12 years ago our 1991 Silverado got a rebuilt trans, intake gaskets and a rear main seal assembly. That was the last major work the bill was $3800, spread over 12 years pretty darn reasonable. Old mainstream vehicles parts are still readily available.

    Take reasonable care of the interior and exterior, keep up on maintenance your initial investment can serve you well for decades. Our “old” truck looks nice, runs and drives great, no leaks – on paper not worth much but it’s priceless to me. I shudder to think what it would cost to replace with even a used one.

    When possible keep them out of the weather, garage great but a carport keeps them dry and pretty much out of the sun.

  11. My 2012 Focus is paid for and has 144,000 trouble free miles since new. A 2.0 non-turbo engine that gets 36 mpg average and a manual transmission. A well known YouTube Ford mechanic states that the 2.0 is extremely reliable and “an engine you can beat the hell out of” and still goes on. I drive normally not abusing it but absolutely no “clover” habits on my end. I’ve had at least 2 people wanting me to sell it to them and the answer is no. That car is worth its weight in gold to me considering the crappy economy we have. They can keep their EV’s and the overpriced automatic only cars with the tiny turbo engines. That money (what little is left after groceries, housing expenses,etc.) is better in my pocket! Oops, I had better shut up least the government sends armed IRS thugs to my house to turn over my sofa cushions looking for change and confiscating my change jars (you got receipts for that?).

  12. Yeah: Another consideration is between engine choices. A screaming four cylinder that has to have a higher final drive gearing vs a bigger engine with lower overall gearing. I had an 02 S10 w/2.2L, 5 speed that got about 25mpg. The 4.3L V6 with the same trans gets about 22. My truck died with 300k, but it was on its 3rd engine. The 4.3L sixes are legendary for their longevity

    • I had ‘91 S-10 years ago with the 4.3 engine. You are correct on the engine longevity and the drive train was excellent as well. The big problem was everything else turned into a rust bucket.

  13. “What gets measured gets managed.”

    The managerial class has become obsessed with statistics and metrics. It is an attempt to map the world. ESG is nothing more than quantifying corporate behavior, like a kindergarden teacher grading Suzy on how well she shares and doesn’t fuss during nap time. Total cost of ownership (TCO) doesn’t matter. Bad products don’t matter, the company’s marketing plan is what counts (literally an “A for effort”). And mangers get stock options, which are a great way to get them focused on whatever metric is of interest to big institutional traders. Today it’s ESG. Not because that’s so important, but because it is a metric that is tradable. Every big company has figured out how to game everything else, so you can’t trade on EPS or new product announcements, all that’s been priced in an assumed already.

    • Just because you can measure it, doesn’t mean you can control it.

      Also doesn’t mean it’s relevant to any particular goal.

  14. Eric,

    While your points are well taken; while I came to the same conclusion WRT keeping my car; you’re wrong about EVs depreciating. Go to Carvana, and look at Tesla Model 3s on there; then, go to Tesla’s website to price a new one. The used Model 3s cost as much, if not more, than the new ones do! I don’t know about other EVs like the Nissan Leaf, but when it comes to depreciation, Teslas hold their value better than anything else does; it’s as if their cars don’t suffer depreciation.

    WRT keeping one’s present vehicle, you’re 100% right. I looked at a few over the last year or so, but in every case, I opted to keep my Focus. One, I like the Focus; few other cars combine practicality, economy, and fun like it does! Two, even if I replaced my Focus with a newer car, I’d still have to cough up $8K-$10K, if not more, to buy it. Sure, you can get a record price for your car, but any replacement vehicle will have a record price too. Even at today’s inflated gas prices $8K will buy a lot of fuel. Three, I know my car. Four, staying vigilant about maintenance will save money.

  15. I’m still waiting for the EV nazis to figure out the:

    -electric 18 wheeler
    -electric garbage truck
    -electric combine
    -electric tractor
    -electric bulldozer
    -electric roadgrader
    -electric front end loaders
    -electric skidders
    -electric feller bunchers
    -electric etc. Lest they meet the fate of Ohio’s Big Muskie dragline shovel.

  16. MSRP

    Tesla model 3 = $46,990

    Toyota Camry LE = $25,945

    $46,990 – $25,945 = $21,045

    $21,045 will buy a lot of gasoline
    Plus you get a bigger car with the Camry.
    with much higher reliability,
    and lower car insurance costs.

    • Preach it, Richard!

      The disparity grows even wider when you factor in the fact that a new Camry will likely go 15 years and 250,000-plus miles without needing a major repair while an EeeeeeVeee will almost certainly need a new battery pack years (and miles) before then.

    • I defy you to find EITHER at MSRP these days. Odds are, IF you can get that new Camry, it’ll cost you upwards of 35 grand. Would STILL be a better deal than the Telsa Model 3 even if the “virtue-signal mobile” isn’t marked up.

      Find a clean, GARAGED 2008 or so vintage Camry that some old bat bought new and has less than 50K miles on it. It won’t have a warranty, but even at today’s inflated prices for used (up) cars, (expect to pay 10 to 12 grand for it), you’ll get the same mileage, and after you’ve put an oil and antifreeze change, and probably a new serpentine belt and a few new hoses on it, which will probably run about $300 if you DIY, or about $800 if you have a shop do it, you should have years of relatively problem-free driving. Check Toyota stuff with YT personality Scotty Kilmer, he knows ’em in and out.

  17. Its funny – met a cousin of the wife yesterday – he works for the new Chinese MG out here in London. Now he’s not a car guy, infact he lived in and around London so never even drove till he joined MG and started getting cars as a perk. Interestingly, he told me that he used to get electrics (you know green and all) – but now avoids them because he couldnt deal with the hassle of making sure its charged, then finding an empty, working charge point, and waiting.

    What I found most interesting is a completely non-car guy like him, came to the same conclusion we car guys have been discussing for ages !

    • Hi Nasir

      Terminating ice cars will cause huge problems, a lot of EV buyers hate them and want to switch back to ice.

      Why do they hate them?
      long charging times, no chargers available, expensive fast chargers, electricity rates increasing monthly, going way up, broken chargers, charger lineups, frequent tire replacement with expensive tires, very high purchase price, $22, 000 battery replacement bills, high maintenace costs, short vehicle lifespan, very dangerous lithium batteries, many EV fires, a huge safety issue, increasing awareness of the massive EMF EV’s give off harming your health, tesla self driving crashes scaring people off EV’s, very short range, 50% worse in cold weather, no towing capacity range, range anxiety, can’t take long trips because of very short real range, getting the EV towed because of dead battery,

      Ev’s make up less than 3% of vehicle sales after 13 years on the market and
      80+% of former ev owners say they will not buy one again……that tells you the product has failed, people don’t want it….but the government will ram them down your throat…

      20% of the first EV buyers have switched back to ice vehicles.

      I know one myself, he had an ice Porsche and bought a Taycan EV, he didn’t like it, when cornering you can feel the huge weight, these huge over weight EV’s don’t like corners, it is like a 5 ton truck. He sold it and bought an ice Porsche Cayman, almost 50% less weight.

  18. ‘make people think that buying an electric car will “save them money.”’ — eric

    Besides the guilt-trip climate angle (which motivates only a minority of buyers), saving money on energy by purchasing electrons instead of gasoline is the pragmatic pitch for EeeVees.

    How long will that savings last? Cast your eyes (if you dare) on our German comrades. As of last Friday, their contracts for wholesale electric power to be delivered next year reached almost $1.00 per kWh — seven times the average US retail price of 13.7 cents per kWh in 2021. Hockey-stick chart of the catastrophic German power price melt-up:

    https://ibb.co/PN11x24

    If you’re a German EeeVee fashion victim, you aren’t saving jack shit, even versus $6.50 a gallon gasoline.

    But that sweet old US 13.72-cent power tariff of 2021 has long since receded in the rearview mirror. US power prices are ripping higher at a double-digit rate in 2022. And those hikes happen with a lag, since state regulatory approval is needed to change base rates. In other words, there’s plenty more pain in the pipeline. A 70% runup in US natural gas since July 1 guarantees it.

    Bottom line, the ‘save money on gas’ pitch for EeeVees is a cynical scam comparable to ‘95% efficacy vaccines will stop covid in its tracks’ (Fauci-Mengele, 2021) or ‘ending gold convertibility won’t change the purchasing power of your dollars’ (Nixon, 1971).

    We dwell in a deceptive world of pervasive official lies. Every damned thing ‘they’ seek to shove down our throats is wrong, dangerous and harmful, including EeeeeVeeeeeeeees.

    • Hi Jim

      Why are they pushing EV’s that get 20.8 mpg when there is a fuel shortage? An EV costs 7 X more to run then the ice diesel Golf

      Should be still selling these:

      the all-new 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel, capable of a claimed 88.3 mpg imperial, or 73.5 mpg U.S….. 100 mile fuel consumption = 1.36 gallons

      An Ev is 25% efficient in turning original source of energy, petroleum in this example into mechanical energy to push the car down the road.

      Most electricity is generated burning hydrocarbons, how green is that?

      90% of electricity is generated by burning coal, gas and oil, 5% is nuclear, solar and wind turbines are a joke, there is a small amount of geothermal and hydro, depending on the location. In U.S. 40% is coal.
      Thermal efficiency of power plants using coal, petroleum, natural gas or nuclear fuel and converting it to electricity are around 33% efficiency, natural gas is around 40%. Then there is average 6% loss in transmission, then there is a 5% loss in the charger, another 5% loss in the inverter, the electric motor is 90% efficient so another 10% loss before turning the electricity into mechanical power at the wheels.
      33% – 6% – 5% – 5% – 10% = 25% efficiency for EV’s.
      (under not ideal conditions it might be 12% efficient).

      NOTE: a diesel is 50% efficient….lol…

      What test drivers are actually getting driving EV’s in the real world is they are getting 2.4 miles of range for every kwh used or using 41.66 kwh to go 100 miles. EV trucks are way worse.

      So to end up with 41.66 kwh of electricity which is equivalent to 1.20 gallons of gas to push the EV 100 miles down the road 4.80 gallons of fuel were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station, remember net 25% efficiency.
      100 miles using 4.80 gallons = real 20.8 mpg, EV’s are getting a real 20.8 mpg…lol

      VW diesel 100 mile fuel consumption = 1.36 gallons @ $4.00 gallon = $5.44
      EV 100 mile fuel consumption = 41.66 kwh @ $0.40 = $16.64

      The $16.64 isn’t the only cost…….the tesla $22,000 battery is used up, worn out in 100,000 miles.
      ATTENTION: this works out to $22.00 per 100 miles it is costing you for the battery. Add the $22.00 to the $16.64 = $38.64

      This means the EV costs 7 X more to run then the ice diesel Golf

      so this VW diesel gets 3.5 X better fuel economy then the 20.8 mpg EV
      and the EV costs 7 times more to run….so what do they do?….they ban the diesel and force you to buy the EV…..why?

      Emissions CO2 per km. …. the ice Golf is cleaner then an EV

      The Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion has emissions of 85g CO2 per km. it is even cleaner (less emissions) than a Toyota Prius or an EV….

      A current-model large EV car with a battery produced and charged in an average European Union country emits about 88 grams of CO2 per kilometer,

      This means the government should be forcing EV owners to buy the cleaner ice diesel Golf…lol

      https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15118719/2014-volkswagen-golf-bluemotion-photos-and-info-auto-shows/

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