The Way It Makes Sense

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Ford has been losing billions not selling EVs – which are stacking up at dealerships all over the country. It’s not just Ford, either. The only EV maker putatively selling EVs is Tesla – emphasis on putative, because Tesla is probably selling them at cost (or a loss) having cut prices to get people to buy them again.

Tesla makes its money via the stock market – on speculative value based upon the belief that people will have to buy EVs, government having “mandated” them. And via the selling of  carbon credits – a blasé term for legal extortion.

It works like this:

The government decrees that companies reduce their “carbon footprint” – by which is meant the quantity of the inert and necessary-to-life gas carbon dioxide, which has been slandered as a “pollutant,” in order to trick the populace into regarding it as harmful by equating it with substances that foul the air and contaminate the environment and injure living things.

One way for the companies whose “carbon footprint” is larger than government allows to avoid being strong-armed by the government is to hand over money to companies like Tesla that use the government to get other companies to hand over money to them as payment for these carbon credits. The purchase of these is regarded by the government as an offset. Tesla – builder of (cough) “zero emissions” EVs – sells credits to companies that don’t make them. These companies then get “credit” for having made their “carbon footprint” smaller – and Elon Musk’s bank balance larger.

Anyhow, the point is that no one is actually making money selling EVs – and because they’re not selling, inventories are accruing. This is certain to result in even heavier losses than have already been eaten by the companies that continue to build more of these things – because the ones already built will probably have to be given away (heavily discounted) in order to clear dealer lots to make room for more EVs that will take their place.

It is only a few weeks from Fall – and just a few months from 2024. The glut of 2023 model EVs will soon be last year’s EVs – and even if they weren’t EVs, that would result in them being “sold” at fire-sale prices, not only to move them off the lot but to staunch the hemorrhage of money dealers are losing with each passing month that these soon-to-be-last-year’s-vehicles (LYVs) sit unsold on their lots.

Plus, winter is coming. And people have become hip to what happens to EVs when it gets cold – on account of what happened to EVs last winter.

But the single-biggest salient fact is that EVs are beyond the financial means of probably two-thirds of potential new car buyers – because two-thirds of potential car buyers cannot afford the roughly $15,000 more it takes to buy the typical EV (average purchase price appx. $50,000) vs. what it takes to buy the typical non-EV (average purchase price appx. $35,000).

Not counting the additional expense of  having an electrician upgrade their home’s electrical; panel so as to be able to get back on the road again in less than a day or two.

Major car companies like Ford have accounting departments.

They know most people cannot afford to spend $15k more on a vehicle just because it is (cough) “green.” Or for any other reason. Expensive things are by definition things most people can’t buy, no matter how much they might want to.

So what else do these car companies know?

Here’s what this writer suspects:

A meeting has been held – probably not in a smoke-filled room (a relic of a manlier, more forthright era) attended by all the major players. At this meeting, assurances were given by the government – by the people who operate its levers and wheels – that, not to worry about all of these losses you guys (the car companies) are incurring. This will be temporary. We will eliminate alternatives to the EVs that aren’t selling. And don’t worry about selling them, either.

Instead, you will sell people rides – which they’ll have no choice but to pay for, if they want to be taken anywhere. You will enjoy a monthly-recurrent, never-ending revenue stream that works exactly like a subscription. People will be obliged to accept paying for rides because they won’t be able to afford the car. That is how we will fix things. You will no longer have to worry about the cost of the cars making it so people can’t afford them – and you can’t sell them.

If this sounds a bit much, consider that the car companies themselves are rebranding as mobility companies that sell “transportation as a service.” It will solve the problem of what people can’t afford anymore by assuring they never have to worry about owning anymore. Whether “transportation” or anything else. Which is also something the people behind all of this have lately become rather brazenly open about.

You will own nothing and be happy!

And those who own everything – and charge you a never-ending subscription to be allowed use of it – will be very happy, indeed.

. . .

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  1. It is ironic, BJ, how such collectivist catch phrases are repeating itself in history-proof that humans never learn from history. Yeah, collectivism worked real well in Soviet Russian, and after the fall of the Romanov’s. And millions starved to death while many more were sent to the gulags for it. Oh, Stalin and his minions ate very well. But not anyone else.

  2. Killer full moon out there tonight. The Werewolves of London are at it again tonight.

    Shouldn’t the buyer of a Tesla receive the carbon credits? Why should Musk get all the credit?

    Why should Elon benefit at the buyer’s expense? Doesn’t seem fair.

    To hell it’s yours, put it back!

    Teslas are smokin’ hot!

    Be careful, don’t get burned. You could, you know.

    Purdy obvious the government doesn’t care if you do. Oh well, better luck next time.

    Shouldn’t Elon be facing manslaughter charges?

    Something should be done to stop homicidal/suicidal Teslas making life miserable for some.

  3. Eric:

    Time to cut Cashy off. He provides nothing to the conversation, other than getting everyone riled up responding to his verbiage.

    Not as obviously moronic as urthluv but a real time waster, he does get folks responding, so that may be good, however he contributes nothing constructive.

    Just my thought, Cashy, what say you?

    • Sorry, Ugg, but I disagree. Cashy should not be banned. Many on here may disagree with him/her, but cancelling someone because we may not favor what they say makes us as bad as the Elephants and Asses. He/she also helps in keeping our debating skills at top performance.

      We cannot be in constant lock step and only offer the audience one view. It becomes monotonous and stale. Opposing views and debate are good things and as long as it does not trend into slandering and mud slinging this should be a welcome site for anyone who wishes to have a valid discussion.

      Let’s give Cashy some time to read alternative views. He/she may come around in about a year. 😁

      • RG, I agree that Cashy provides provocative points, but he seems to not argue in a constructive fashion. To much ad hominem name calling and vituperation. Sometimes cashy makes a bit of sense then not. I agree not as bad as urthluv.

        However, maybe cashy will respond. He does spend a lot of time on the site.

        Like to hear his view.

        • If the host wants me to leave I will leave, it will not be necessary to ban me.

          The only reason I am here is to offer my insights on the issues being discussed with the intent to educate. I see a chance to enlighten posters to a different viewpoint.

          After all what is the point of superior intelligence if it is not used to aid one’s fellow men?

          • “the intent to educate”
            “what is the point of superior intelligence”
            Do you understand the outright arrogance of such statements?
            “I am of ‘superior intelligence’, so you should accept my thoughts as ‘education.’ ”
            Believe me, you rarely if ever demonstrate such intelligence, and the only education you provide is how arrogant you are.

          • Cashy, I kind of like having somebody like you around. You serve as a propaganda mind slave exemplar against which we can further hone pro-liberty arguments. It never hurts to revisit libertarian fundamentals every now and again. You might consider toning down the distasteful nasty comments though.

      • Morning, RG –

        That’s my attitude as well (regarding Cashy). This is a free speech zone. And you’re absolutely right about honing debate skills!

    • Hi Ugg

      In a word No. Not only no, but hell no! This forum is Eric’s. He has long since demonstrated that he actually believes in free speech. That means for EVERYONE (except bots and spam :)). If you don’t like some posters content just ignore it.

    • Oh Cashy is a man?! 🤣🤣🤣 Back in San Diego, I knew a low-life lady (tangentially because she was a hanger-on of a friend) named Cathy that everyone called “Cashy” because she was only after some man’s money. Happened to be my friend Tom’s money she was after at the time. She was unembarrassed and even called herself “Cashy”.

      I thought the Cashy person here was a female too! Kind of writes like a “Karen contrarian”, i.e., always wanting to “ya but” every point. That person and the other persona non grata on here, I just ignore.

      You have to wonder if/when absolutely nobody likes them on a forum is abundantly clear, why they hang around.

      • Hi XM,

        The really aggravating thing about Cashy is his inability to understand distinctions – including the ones he makes. He will say, as a for-instance, that so-and-so is a “freeloader” because he hasn’t “saved” enough (as per Cashy) for retirement and thus will become a “burden on society.” When it is explained to him that he is asserting a possibility rather than a fact he just ignores the fact and continues to assert harms visited upon others that have not been visited upon anyone as the justification for abusing and punishing, a priori, the supposed “freeloader.”

        When it is pointed out to him that – according to this logic – it is acceptable to punish people generally, for any asserted harm the asserted asserts will arise as a result of their doing or not doing whatever it is Cashy disapproves of – Cashy refuses to admit the logic of it.

        He also seems unable to understand that by endorsing what he endorses he endorses the authoritarian busybodyism he says he opposes.

        In fact, he does not oppose it – as such. He only opposes it when it suits. That makes him just like the Leftists he says he differs from. It is the difference between a timber rattlesnake and a sidewinder.

        • As I have pointed out numerous times it is perfectly rational to look at the possible ramifications of a situation before it occurs so as to prepare for it. Such as the case for insurance. Health insurance for example. You don’t expect to get sick or hurt but if you do you do not want to go broke covering the cost. Life insurance, you don’t expect to die young but if you do you would like your family taken care of. Auto insurance, you don’t expect to be in an accident but if it happens the costly damage can be covered. Retirement insurance, to provide for yourself when you may become too old to do it yourself.

          A failure to take these types of precautions will mean that the burden for your care falls on someone else. Often due to the cost it is the government as the last source provider. Thus one risks being a burden on the taxpayer if they do not take precautions beforehand.

          Is this not correct?

          • Cashy writes:

            “As I have pointed out numerous times it is perfectly rational to look at the possible ramifications of a situation before it occurs so as to prepare for it.”

            Who said otherwise?

            But that is not what you’ve “pointed out.” Instead, what you have said is that you believe because “x” might happen, it is justifiable to impose “y.” For example, you assume so-and-so will become a “freeloader” because they have not “saved” as much as you think they ought to for retirement. But the person is only a “freeloader” if he actually freeloads. Which he hasn’t done (in this example). So you have no basis for accusing him of “freeloading.”

            Our disagreement has never been about people being free to choose to buy insurance. It has been about people being forced to – because people like you are afraid that “society” will otherwise bear the “costs.” Even if they are never incurred by the specific individual.

            Risks are not the same as harms. You seem unable to grasp the distinction. Or to admit it. Perhaps because if you did, then you’d no longer be able to insist that people be forced to buy “coverage” for the sake of harms not caused.

            • Hi Cashy,

              Have you ever inquired why we “need” all these insurances? The insurance companies have put so much fear into the general public that they are terrified to not have them.

              I don’t have health insurance. It doesn’t mean I don’t care about my health. I would argue the fact that I take care of myself better than the average American because of this. My husband and I also sock money away each month in case something tragic happens. One can have quite a nice nest egg when $2000 isn’t sent to BCBS every 30 days, but put aside for future use. A $20k injury (or more) won’t bankrupt my family.

              We also don’t need life insurance? Why? Everything is paid for. I do have auto insurance and homeowners, but my deductibles are high and I find the price reasonable for the coverage received.

              Do you know what is now taking off? Pet insurance. When have pets ever needed to be insured? I have noticed a link. As pet insurance becomes more popular the cost of the services for the animal becomes more expensive. Why? Insurance will take care of it. An MRI for one’s German Shepherd is now $2k.

              When people feel they have to ante up very little they are prone to abuse the system. This is why Medicare and Medicaid suffer from $60 billion of fraudulent billings annually. Hospitals and doctors charge more, because the reality of getting caught is slim.

              For the first 175 years Americans did not have insurance for our assets. Are we better or worse because of it? Are people healthier, fitter, and have less disease because they do not have to pay to see a doctor or go to the hospital? I think we can agree that answer is a resounding no.

              • > As pet insurance becomes more popular the cost of the services for the animal becomes more expensive.
                Third party payment makes it appear “free” (or nearly so) to the consumer, who pays little or nothing *at* *the* *point* *of* *consumption*. But, guess what, if your employer is paying thousands per month to an insurance company on your behalf, that means less money in your pocket. Those of us who are, or have been, self employed, know this all too well. For us, there is no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny, and no Tooth Fairy.

                >This is why Medicare and Medicaid suffer from $60 billion of fraudulent billings

                And for the criminal organizations committing the fraud (better known as “hospitals”), paying the hefty fine if they are caught is just an ordinary cost of doing business.

                > the Columbia/HCA board of directors forced Rick Scott to resign as chairman and CEO amid growing evidence that the company “had kept two sets of books, one to show the government and one with actual expenses listed.”[8] Thomas Frist, a co-founder of HCA and brother of U.S. Senator Bill Frist, returned to the company as CEO in 1997[8] and called on longtime friend and colleague Jack O. Bovender, Jr. to help him turn the company around.[59]

                >The federal probe culminated in 2003 with “the government receiving a total of over $2 billion in criminal fines and civil penalties for systematically defrauding federal health care programs.”[60] Columbia/HCA pleaded guilty to 14 felonies and admitted to systematically overcharging the government.

                Rick Scott eventually received >$300 million in severance pay, and later became governor of Florida.

                When you own your own senator, many things can happen.

              • Spot on, RG –

                Also: While I don’t have health insurance either, I would probably buy a catastrophic care policy with a very high deductible (e.g., $15,000-plus). Something that only covers an extreme/unlikely event, such me being badly hurt in a car wreck, a heart attack, etc. But that “covers” nothing else. Such a policy makes sense to me – and would be inexpensive for me. But – thanks to people like Cashy – one can no longer buy stand-alone catastrophic coverage. Obamacare has made it so that I must be all sorts of “coverage” I don’t need – such as “coverage” for substance abuse and maternity care, etc.

                And: Your point re pet care costs is just as spot-on. What used to be usually inexpensive because it was pay-as-you-go is becoming just as unaffordable (without “coverage”) as human medical care… unless you have unaffordable insurance!

              • No doubt.

                ‘Beyond the NAP: Rothbard’s Full Case For Liberty’

                …”Let’s examine that system. Human liberty is a much broader topic than a focus on the non-aggression principle (NAP). Liberty is impotent when all that we consider is the political theory of the NAP; Rothbard did not and could not limit himself to this in his quest. Libertarianism is thin; the question of human liberty is not.”…


              • Indeed, Mister L!

                The fascinating thing about Cashy is that he postures as a conservative (“dissident right,” whatever that is). In other words, he gives lip service to the idea of “limited” government – and yet he demands more and more government! Then he seems baffled when we point out the logical absurdity of his arguments.

    • Ugg,
      Personally, I like to hear what people like Cashy think- but I’d never waste my time seeking out their rantings in places they frequent. We should be able to tolerate those who are the opposite of us- albeit, we don’t have to like them or agree with them- but I’d rather hear them than silence them- and who knows, coming here may actually do Cashy some good. Some people are of the wrong opinion on things merely because they are exposed to nothing but wrong ideas and false data, and have never had a chance to consider anything else.

      We should stand against censorship- not just when we are the ones being censored.

  4. This is the most important chart about the future of EVs, the interest on the national debt, is going vertical:

    What that chart means (I hope Eric reads this) is that in the near future our stupid as dog shit Congress will actually be forced to cut spending, and sure as shit the first thing to be cut will be the worthless spending, like $1,000 dollar toilet seats and EV subsidies to “Save the Earth” from “Klimate Katastrophe” (as Greta Dumberg would write).

    The climate change stuff is a 100% hoax, as is the necessity to save the earth with EVs. The only real catastrophe coming is malinvestment by climate lunatics and power hungry socialist engineers who think they know better than you. Unfortunately for these spendthrifts, a nuclear bomb went off in the credit markets today:

    News headline “Fitch downgrades US credit rating citing ‘steady deterioration’ of US governance amid frequent debt ceiling battles”

    That is really big news, folks, as the full faith and credit is wavering. Of course, the USA is already bankrupt, as is anyone who spends themselves into $32 billion into debt with no ability (and no intention) to pay it off (in constant dollars).

    Janet Yellin, our glorious Jewess Treasury Secretary went ballistic and was hysterically yellin – you can search this story and read it – but suffice to say – these lunatic spenders are starting to meet spending limit reality and they are throwing a fit like a teenager who just met their credit card limit.

    The debt downgrade (is of course) just the start of an orgy of downgrades coming down the Albert C. Pike superhighway to hell. The US Government has not balanced it’s budget for decades, and debt has gone exponential. These out of control spenders got a free ride when interest rates fell for decades, from 1980 to 2020, but now the trend has reversed, the new trend for interest rates is up, up, and away – potentially to new highs, greater than 1980 – because, after all, the financial situation is magnitudes worse than 1980.

    Now what do you think vehicle sales will be if interest on a car loan exceeds 1980 highs? The only way to buy will be cash or a lower principle, and EV sales – which are now tanking – will go to nil – and all those EV mfgs will be sitting on malinvestment of epic proportions because LIKE TOTAL DUMBASSES THEY FOLLOWED THE LEAD OF THE PEDO SNIFFER IN CHIEF!

    Are auto company CEOs the dumbest people alive?

    And if rising rates was not bad enough, foreign central banks are dumping US Treasuries – like this chart of Russia’s treasury holdings – and this was before the war (maybe the cause of war!):

    Soon all the BRICs nations, some 4 dozen now, are being encouraged to do just that. Why would China own US debt when China is at war with USA over Taiwan – and now Ukraine? So without a doubt, war making Zionists will also be meeting the reality that the rest of world doesn’t like us and now see us as a weakened giant and dump debt.

    • Thanks. This is an important and revealing article. Here’s a non-paywalled link:

      “We have a lot of choices between electrification, partial electrification and ICE … so all I am saying is you’re going to see a lot more hybrid systems from us, but don’t think of them in the traditional sense of an Escape hybrid or a Prius. The hybrids I refer to are not plug-in hybrids. They are vehicles without a plug.” — Jim Farley

      ‘John McElroy, host of the “Autoline After Hours” webcast and podcast, said, “Ford is hedging its bets. Chevrolet and Ram are going to continue building their ICE trucks. Ford’s got a pure electric, it’s building ICE and continuing with hybrids.

      “A lot of pickup buyers are not ready for an electric truck. They tow heavy loads, go long distances and an electric really isn’t for them right now. They’re going to stick with the internal combustion engine. If they can get better fuel economy by going with a hybrid … [it’s] a pretty attractive proposition for a lot of buyers.”

      To my surprise, Jim Farley seems to have woken up, realized that his job is at stake, and started furiously backpedaling from our pipe-dream, all-electric future.

      It won’t be easy, with mindless yes-man Michael Regan of EPA fecklessly trying to dictate two-thirds EeeVee market share by 2032.

      Toyota’s comment on EPA’s proposed regs pointed out how counterproductive it is to discriminate against hybrids in favor of plug-in EeeVees.

      Don’t want to get too excited, but Ford joining Toyota in pushing back against the cliiiiimate fanatics of the butt-bonk ‘Biden’ regime could be big news. Let ten thousand heterodox flowers bloom.

  5. I just put new license plates on my car this morning, we buy new ones about every two years here in Nebraska.
    “You will own nothing and be happy”

    Not a prediction, but a true statemtent of the present day conditions. If ownership is defined as control over some object of property, then we citizens of these united states do not, in fact, own anything; not even our own bodies.

    What has changed is that the 1%, or the top .5% or powers-that-be or lizard people or however you want to label the actual owners as…they don’t need us anymore. They, and their ancestors did need many millions of little people to run the machines and do the paperwork to transfer as much wealth from us to them as possible. But now, technology is letting Them get rich without much need for the labor of the masses.
    Globalization means the decoupling of capital from any particular geographic location; the Them’s can relocate their drain on wealth to any part of the globe they wish.
    I figure They really only need a few million workers…er, slaves…to do the dirty work. Technology is a wonderful thing.

    Most of the economy services us, the little people, to varying degrees. From the perspective of Them, this is a ghastly waste, and the only way to eliminate this waste without jeapardizing their own safety is to eliminate our access to resources. The They’s cannot outright just shove us into the ovens…yet…so they engineer all kinds of schemes. License plates, for one. You own nothing, now. So where is the outrage?

    I see some of you still believe in a point, or a line in the sand, where millions of average folk will…rise up? Stop complying? Revolt? … supposedly in time to, what, stop what is coming?

    Not going to happen. Never has, in human history. And certainly not now, with Their control of information, financing, transportation. What good are guns if you cant buy bullets? What do They care if the car industry tanks, or the economy tanks, why would that affect Them?

    What works in our favor are three factors:
    1. They hate and compete against each other.
    2. Hubris- They run up against reality in their schemes
    3. They die.

    Not saying these factors will change any fundamental direction, just that eventually these factors combine to create a massive calamity-i.e. world war, mass starvation, mass revolution, mass destruction of the socio-political order- which allows a reset that may unwind some of the damage.
    This is the state of humanity. Always the struggle for control by the few over the many. Never stops. Never will. No laws or any institution can prevent this. The only real defense is to restrain empire building, or break empires up into smaller political units. Unity leads directly to tyranny on a mass scale. Tyranny in bite sized portions is better than tyranny writ large.
    Life is still pretty good. The past 8 decades have been an amazing time for Westerners, and many others. Asia now appears to be the place to be, or a few spots in some Latin nations, or even a few spots here in the states.
    This situation is not the new normal. This is The Way It Always Has Been.
    Relax and stay calm. Trying to “do something” is futile. Focus on your local area. Focus on what you personally control. Be a Stoic. Everyday is a happy ending. Who cares what They do? They will do whatever they want regardless of what you want. If activism makes you happy, then do it. But accept the consequences.

    At least I live in Nebraska. Last place on Earth They will care much about. Nothing here but cornfields, the Ogallala Acquifer, deadly boredom, and the damn Cornhusker football team.

    • “What has changed is that the 1%, or the top .5% or powers-that-be or lizard people or however you want to label the actual owners as…they don’t need us anymore. They, and their ancestors did . . . The They’s cannot outright just shove us into the ovens…yet…”

      My theory is this is the purpose of COVID, both the virus and the vaccines. A way to kill off the “useless eaters” without gas chambers and ovens.

    • The lizard people have names and addresses and they bleed like any other animal. They are not gods, they are the diseased rich who have way to much money and now want to own and control everything, but they won’t when they are dead, which is why it is our job to put them in early graves.

      How much better would the world be if the top 1,000 people were dead?

      Would I be better off if Klaus Schwab was dead? Yes I would. What about Bill Gates? Yes. Or the top executives at pharma or the CDC? Yes.

      Would our nation be better off if the Biden crime family died suddenly?

      The truth is, we the people, don’t need them, they are wrenches in the machine.

    • From the video:

      ‘The second-gen Corvairs weighed 2,400 to 2,500 lbs.’

      Today, we can only dream of such spare elegance.

      The lithe girls … errr, CARS of our youth, have morphed into rotund blimps.

      And they can’t be replaced. 🙁

      • Hi Jim!

        I used to own a ’64, which I stupidly sold back in 2002. It was like a super Beetle – ha! – in that it was laid out similarly but larger, much more comfortable and with much more power (110 hp from the flat six). It could easily maintain 70 MPH – which was harder for the Beetle to do without straining. And the heat was hot!

        I miss it often.

  6. This sounds to like more O’Bama stupidity! Why don’t we just take him over to the White House and crown him king? We have emission tests on our vehicles in Texas yearly and they must meet a certain standard for you to get a license to drive your vehicle! Are we to assume this isn’t good enough. The baloney about carbon crap is just that. Quit flying all those personal jets around. They are the polluters. And a limo throws out way too much.

    • Hi Nancy,

      If this country crowns anyone King the 15 minute city, seizing of personal assets, digital coin, etc. will come true. Right now, we don’t have a dictator and everything is being run by the oligarchy. Does Uncle Joe have puppeteers pulling his strings? Yes, but there is more than one.

      Look at any communist nation. They are ruled by a single person. Kim with North Korea, Putin with Russia, Maduro with Venezuela, etc. Within an oligarchy or as the USSA likes to call a “representative government” there are too many hands in the cookie jar which creates too much infighting. Someone will believe they have been hamstringed along or victimized and will not go along with the plan. It is the same reason that the WEF will fail.

      Oligarchy governments are never successful and do not flourish for long. Athens and Attica in Ancient Greece were ruled by this government for a time (The Four Hundred). They had a dismal and very destructive end. A return to democratic government blossomed from this.

      Here’s hoping history repeats itself.

  7. I think the appearance of an absurd climate change regime choking out the automobile industry via some fake “transition” to EVs is a whipping boy to take focus off of the inflation. They would rather take the slings and arrows of the debaters and so-called deniers on that amorphous topic than have the proles understanding and banging on what they’ve done to the money. If you think about it, the only certainty is higher prices for everything. None of the other potentialities, all electric, mobility as a subscription service, has an even a remote chance of succeeding.

    • Yes: “the only certainty is higher prices for everything.” There was a very short period when actual deflation occurred and that probably lasted between 2009-2012. It was nice while it lasted, but I don’t think that can happen now. Waaaay too much money was printed.

      What we are all feeling is the elites having plundered us in 2020 by (in effect) clipping 35% of our coins. The current state of society shows the absolutely corrosive effects of these bastards inflating the money supply. The extreme examples are the DC suburbs thriving while the lowest on the rungs are pushed into homelessness. From my vantage point, the homeless population has just exploded.

      • It’s an overall pattern. Yesterday, I saw an article with some climate change regs excuse for why A/C units will be much more expensive, maybe prohibitively so, in the near future. Those durn bureaucrats. They want us to not notice how we’ve been diminished and/or re-brand that diminishment as “price appreciation” or some virtue to be signaled. And that’s what’s ahead, more diminishment.

        • Hi Funk,

          The Biden Administration wants to cut 410-A (the refrigerant used in newer AC units) by 40% beginning next year. Right now 410 averages around $150-200 a pound. If they choose to reduce the manufacturing of the refrigerant someone who needs their AC charged could be paying $500 or more per pound. Hope no ones evaporator coil has a leak!

          I believe they are going to try to push 454-B in its place but that means converting the systems over (not cheap) or purchasing brand new systems.

          Very much like cars…A/C will be for the rich.

          • This is an old crony-capitalist trick by the a/c manufacturers and the chemical companies that make the refrigerant, who must have off-patent refrigerants (i.e. more than 20 years old) outlawed. They use the captured regulatory agencies to keep everybody buying new a/c systems and the refrigerant expensive.

          • Yeah but that hasn’t happened officially yet and prices are way up. My a/c tech said new units would be up $3k as of the first of this year. And they were. No new Brandon policy in effect yet.

            I think it’s really just a matter of inflation of the money supply leading to higher nominal prices for things with intrinsic value, like cars & their components, refrigerants for a/c units, and houses/land. The regulatory excuses seems to be ex post facto to me. They’d rather have us blaming obscure Obamao or Brandon policies than the uniparty spending over the last 3 years.

            It’s not one thing, for sure, but the inflation is the 800 lb. gorilla. Anyone waiting on inflation to become deflation is going to be disappointed. Higher interest rates can’t offset the increase in the money supply..

    • Fitch downgraded the US Treasury debt to AA+ rating. That is a big deal. It is another achievement of the pedo sniffer and his relentless deficit spending.

      Technically speaking, a nation 32.5 trillion in debt, adding a trillion or more a year, is already bankrupt. Along the way, the debt is slowly downgraded at first – but then the rate of downgrade will surely accelerate unless Congress stops spending. But they won’t, which means interest rates on the debt will continue to increase with the downgrades.

      Imminent pivot (where the Fed switches from raising rates to lowering them) may not happen. Interest rates may start marching to new highs (in a cyclical fashion) like the 1970’s. This will balloon the interest on the debt, which has now shot up from $500 billion/yr to a trillion, then soon 2 trillion. That will force the rating agencies to downgrade the debt again, in a vicious self reinforcing cycle.

      At some point the spendthrifts will be forced to face reality, they will no longer be able to just spend money with no consequence. In the near future, we will look back and wonder how stupid we were to throw $200 billion away into the Ukraine shithole.

      BTW Nobel prize dumbass Paul Krugman will be the last economystic to figure this out.

      At some point, the back door bribes to get car companies to make EVs at a loss will meet hard cold reality, the economy is way bigger than government. Command and control by climate loons leads to faulty decisions which can bankrupt the whole nation, not just car manufacturers.

  8. I work with auto companies on a daily basis, and I’m not sure whether I buy into this back room conspiracy to reduce people’s mobility.

    There are several factors that can explain this behavior.

    First, regulators are stupid and focus narrowly. Some president, or other kind of fascist, tells a regulatory body that “we” must do something about emissions or CO2 or whatever, and gives them carte blanche to pass regulations. These people are not the smart ones you remember from school, they’re the nose picking, bubble-gum popping, hair twirling idiots. They have no understanding of mechanical engineering or physics, and so, they write impossible regulations.

    Next, anyone below the CEO in a car company is powerless to make decisions, and in fact, fears proposing anything which might hurt their standing in the political structure of the company. Decisions flow up, unless the CEO forces someone to make a choice on something. In this environment, it would take a CEO with balls to resist these regulations, however, this might also result in a shareholder lawsuit or his replacement. Compliance and fear are the easy path, so this is what happens. It takes the exceptional CEO to push back (people like Ghosn, or Lutz, but they’re rare).

    The rank and file, and especially middle management, are unthinking paper-pushers. If someone tells them to improve efficiency, they’ll try to make it happen, not thinking of the implications. It’s shocking, but car companies are full of people who have no passion for cars, they’re just muddling through their day job at a car plant.

    I see a combination of ridiculous regulation from a government run amok, gutless CEO’s who are beholden to boards which sing the virtues of ESG, and tons of yes-men. This is even worse than some back-room conspiracy, because conspirators can be dragged out into the street and dealt with, but when there’s just apathy and carelessness, you can’t do much. It’s the same with governments; it’s much easier to get rid of a king than a democracy.

    • ‘It’s shocking, but car companies are full of people who have no passion for cars, they’re just muddling through their day job at a car plant.’ — OppositeLock

      Nailed it. All of the US legacy auto makers were founded four to five generations ago by hands-on inventors and makers. Most of them had been superseded by the 1930s.

      During WW II, auto plants were converted to munitions manufacturing. Between 1941 and 1946, no new cars were manufactured.

      After that, ‘organization men’ took over. It was all corporatized, and still is. But Big Gov, cemented in place by the war, by the 1960s started taking ever greater liberties in micromanaging car design. CARB, our nemesis, came into being on this black day in 1967.

      Auto making now is a mature industry that is now being systematically destroyed. Innovators will be obliged to find an end run around the current regulatory stalemate, which now stifles all but EeeVee startups.

      We coulda been a contendah … 🙁

      • Much of the ‘organization men’ takeover is just natural evolution of corporations. They generally fall into three ages: startup/pioneers, big growth/heroes, investment/bean counters. The age of the startup is where legends are created. The age of growth is where millionares are created. and the age of investment is where oligarchs are created.

        All automakers are in the investment age. The company is only concerned with loss of market share and not getting fired. That means no risk, and try to make it as hard as possible for any newcomers to innovate them out of a job.

    • Hi OppositeLock

      Excellent points. Thats almost exactly how large organizations operate. Governments especially. Look at the last three years of the Plandemic. The vast majority simply went along to get along. All it took was some evil bastards to set it in motion, and nature took its course. Its the same with the Climate Cult. They are mostly useful idiots. Those ultimately behind this know its nonsense, but it advances their various agendas.
      But reality is much more complex than their models. Emergence behavior is insanely difficult to simulate. But that doesn’t prevent them from trying. They really do not care how many people die in the process. Its all for The Cause. Thats why we are very likely to see something really dire happen. They need something nasty enough to distract peoples attention from the collapse of various systems and processes.
      Then they can Build Back Better™. But always keep in mind that the carbon they most want to eliminate is you (and most of the rest of humanity if they can).

  9. “Instead, you will sell people rides – which they’ll have no choice but to pay for, if they want to be taken anywhere.”- Eric

    Then why the 15 minute city? If everything you need is within 15 minutes why own a car? If you have a job outside the limits the employer could send a car to round you up. Of course by then the majority won’t be working,,, they’ll be living off of some gov scheme for free bare survival money IF you are somewhat useful to them. Otherwise it’s free euthanasia like in Kanada or some states in the United Suckers of America.

    Slavery apples when you are not allowed to own property. We fall into that category today. We can lease-own property but must pay for the privilege called taxes. We can lease-own a car but have to title it, register it and plate it…. every year. Our homes and all land requires a ‘property tax’ set and collected by the real owners. Open a business? All sorts of permits and taxes there. Get married? A marriage license. Buy a 35,000 dollar car? Pay a couple three thousand in tax Plus title and Delivery. Buy clothes? Pay sales tax. Hell most states make you pay tax on food. The average person that actually WORKS pays a third to a half of their income to their owners,,, today called government. The rest are wards of the state with only one purpose,,, To collect more wealth and power from you.

    Slavery has been rebranded as employee. Here’s a pundit that explains it better than I and no….. its not the race baiting 1619 propaganda the NYT dishes out to the sponge Bobs and Karens out there.

    • I concur, Ken. I think what we are seeing (EV mandates; transportation as a service; absurd strangling emissions BS; absurd CAFE standards -the latter two being used to so complicate cars and make them delicate, non-durable, and hugely expensive to repair.. ) is designed to DESTROY the car industry.

      Life as most people live it today in cities and suburbs is not compatible with ‘transportation as a service’, as the typical fambly living anywhere where one is reliant upon cars would need many rides per day- which would be very expensive and time-wasting. (Hop in the car to go a mile to the store; hop in the car to pick up junior from the after-school Satanism Club, at the school 1.5 miles away; hop in the car to go see the latest profanity-strewn soft-core excuse-for-a-movie from Hollyjewood; hop in the car to meet Leighsuh-from-the-office for a cup of coffee get-together…. -What can be accomplished on a gallon or two of gas, and absorbed into the overall cost of car ownership- making the per-ride cost pretty low, suddenly turns into $100 for one evening of short round-trips- and that’s just for the little stuff- now add in going to work; going to the doctor for your weekly vaccine injection; going to the rainbow flag-flying FEMA-compliant church… It’s downright farcical- like EVs themselves, or self-driving cars…)

      Also, if the plan were transportation-as-a-service, it would greatly reduce the number of vehicles on the road, and thus the number of vehicles being sold and produced, thus canceling the economy-of-scale the manufacturers have in producing huge quantities of vehicles, which would make vehicles much more expensive to produce and sell- and ultimately, the consumer -the end user- would end up paying; so few would be able to afford to be driven everywhere.

      The future as portrayed in government schools years ago: Drive flying cars and live in colonies on the Moon. (Why would anyone even want that?)

      The reality: Live in a tiny cubicle and ride the bus or walk, while enjoying brief meaningless ‘hook-ups’ and bread & circuses; and if you end up procreating, the state will oversee the raising of your sprogs by strangers in state-approved and regulated ‘daycare facilities’. (Why would anyone want THAT?! -But most of that is here already, and people clamor for it…)

    • We can look to other countries to see what a low car ownership culture looks like. I come from northeastern Poland, near the border with Belarus. It’s really poor in that area, and most people can’t afford cars, so most people don’t own cars. Cities are built with that in mind; they’re built in large, dense clusters of housing surrounding groceries and retail, so most of your daily needs can be taken care of with a short walk, bike ride, whatever. We also have suburbs where people with money (and cars) live, and taxis are affordable enough for most people to use regularly. Public transit is ok, but not great, though much better than in the US.

      The city centers are very annoying places to own a car. Parking is hard to find, apartments are built without much regard for parking cars, so, if you do have the means to own a car, you have to make a choice based on that where you will live.

      What is different from the US is that there is a lot less regulation that makes things expensive, so people can afford those taxis and whatnot.

      It’s sad to think about the future of the US by comparing it to a place where people are poor and have found ways to cope.

      • ‘If you do have the means to own a car, you have to make a choice based on that where you will live.’ –OppositeLock

        Japan requires that car buyers prove they have an off-street parking space. It might be just a 6’x12′ niche for a microcar. But a government inspector WILL come out to check.

        ‘Compare [the US] to a place where people are poor and have found ways to cope.’

        You can see this in any developing country. The reality of limited incomes dictates necessary accommodations, and the enforcement (if any) of aspirational laws which prove unworkable and burdensome.

        Sadly, the yankee mentality is quite bloody-minded (to use a relevant British term). It assumes that impractical things can be shoved down the throats of the populace by main force. Such as EeeVees achieving a 67% vehicle market share by 2032.

        ‘Community’ is a popular buzzword in the US, since it’s gone missing in most places. Community is founded on people being able to live their preferred lives within their means, without unreasonable (or even patently insane) demands being imposed at gunpoint from above.

  10. I’m going to add a couple of observations here. Yes, they want to turn auto companies into “mobility services.” They’ve already talked about this for years; it started with leasing, and it is a small step to go from leasing to “sharing” the way a lot of cities do with those stupid urban bikes. Not to mention the widespread acceptance of services like Uber (which I personally find bizarre). But they want to do this for the proles, not for everyone.

    There is still a lot of money to be made in what the auto companies call “passion brands.” The idea is that you manufacture and market a boutique vehicle to someone who has a LOT of money to burn on a vehicle that he is passionate about and is willing to pay absolutely stupid money for (and is often willing to pay thousands over MSRP for). Examples are Broncos, some Jeeps, Shelby Mustangs, Dodge Demons and Corvettes. I was just talking to a guy who said he had been on a waitlist for two years to be able to order a new Corvette. Mind you, the waitlist was just to be able to PLACE the order. Then more waiting until it’s built.

    There ARE people who have money to burn and are willing to pay a premium for an electric car if it fulfils their fantasy of being “green.” They are mostly rich urban liberals who have a 14 MPG Toyota Sequoia stashed in the garage for ski trips to Tahoe, but they do actively seek EVs at any cost just for the satisfaction of having apparent moral superiority over the MAGA voters in their pickup trucks and for the ability to fit in with fellow shitlibs. Mind you all these people can afford to purchase “carbon credits” for their ICE vehicles if need be as a sure sign of their moral virtue.

    The point is that the auto companies are actively abandoning the business model of selling affordable vehicles to the proletarian downmarket for daily transportation, and adopting the Rolls Royce/Porsche strategy of selling smaller volume to the rich for higher profit per unit while letting the government slowly take over the proletarian transportation sector.

  11. ‘But the single-biggest salient fact is that EVs are beyond the financial means of probably two-thirds of potential new car buyers.’ — eric

    This ^^^.

    It didn’t have to be this way. China makes millions of cheap EeeVees to fit wage-earner budgets.

    But those compact little go-karts aren’t compliiiiiiiiiant with US regs, which essentially mandate costly behemoths.

    So the stars ‘n stripes empire fades, while the yellow stars empire ascends.

    Almost seems intentional, don’t it?

    • If the neocons are allowed to start a war with China, that will be the last straw. But I think their (self-) survival instinct will override their lust for blood. This time. For now anyway.

      But there is that chance of hysterical overreaction combined with believing their own bullshit.

      Sanity is not their strong suit.

  12. It’s a shame the supreme court put off reviewing the Chevron Doctrine till next year, it’d be great to buy whatever vehicle you wanted from whatever country. As Tom Luongo mentions in his videos, all these dollars going overseas as ‘aid’ get smuggled back into the country to buy off politicians and other bureaucratic scum to gum up the system with these regulatory agencies.

  13. Those WEF idiots are just plain stupid, can’t figure it out these days, they goofed.

    Farmers with three to four pickups to get around the farm and fields aren’t going to forfeit the trucks for a self-driving BEV as a subscription service. Ranchers have livestock and you need equipment, tractors, tillage equipment and a horse trailer.

    Cattle ranchers cure the manure and then use manure spreaders in the fall to spread manure on the cropland, the land is like new again. If you don’t spread manure, the land will not produce as well.

    It’s not a hobby when you are using a combine that costs 750,000 dollars.

    Coffee time is over, time to pick weeds. Too windy to pick rock.

    I’ll be happy… when Klaus is dead.

    Be like a Dancing Israeli on 911, be more like them, you know, might as well.

    • Hi drumpish,
      May have to get in line and take a number when Klaus finally bites the dust. I plan to piss on his grave, after downing a six pack (maybe of Bud Light 😆) so I’ll have a full bladder.

      • Stock sales and buybacks are not included in net earnings on income statements.

        The number of shares on that statement are only used to calculate profit per share.

        There are no stock sales included in Tesla’s net earnings.

        Stock sales are only included on an income statement, and in net earnings, if the corporation is in the business of selling stock, such as an investment bank.

        A correct statement about Tesla earnings is that their profit margin was very high, at 15% in 2022. Ford, for comparison, had a 2022 net profit margin of 1.75%.

        Tesla (15% net profit margin) and Ferrari (19% net profit margin) are the most profitable auto manufacturers in the world.

        Various automaker profit comparisons at the link below.

        46 years after earning my Finance MBA, it finally pays off by allowing me to give EP a hard time.

        Your regular fact checker / heckler

      • Tesla does not report earnings by nation in their 10K annual report document.

        They do report China’s auto market was over 30 percent of Tesla global unit sales, and over 20 percent of Tesla global sales revenue, in the first quarter of 2023.

        That means Teslas sell for lower prices in China (they are also manufactured in China).

        While Tesla earnings in China are not public information. the lower unit sales price in China, less wealthy population in China than in the US and Europe, and more competition in China from cheap EVs made by other companies in China, strongly suggests to me that net earnings from China are likely to be LESS than 20% of total Tesla global net earnings.

        Meaning that less expensive Tesla EVs sold in China may be 20% of total Tesla global sales revenue, but most likely are less than 20% of total Tesla global net earnings.

  14. While that is very likely what these lunatics are thinking, that isn’t going to work in a profitable way. First, dealerships everywhere will have to be shuttered because nobody is buying (or very few). That means car salesmen better “learn to code” and that the entire car warranty apparatus will implode as well. Car repair and service — where a great deal of money is currently made — will only cater to car manufacturing corporations which will likely have to have their own repair services for essentially every car they make forever.

    Then think about maintenance. Instead of that being pushed onto the suckers that buy their bullshit EVs, the corporations themselves are going to have to deal with it. They really want/need YOU to be holding the bag on that battery replacement!

    So then they’re all going to become some sort of ridesharing service like Uber? Or a car sharing service? They will need to employee a vast army of service people and drivers — making all that democrat minimum wage or better along with “access” to health care and pregnancy leave for men, etc.

    Basically like Ford, GM, Toyota, etc, becoming the Taco Bell of a ride-/car-sharing. That is going to be a fucken disaster.

    And OBTW, speaking of Toyota (and not-American car manufacturers) — how do they get bailed out? Are US tax dollars going to keep Toyota, Subaru, Nissan, Hyundai, etc, etc, from collapse? That’ll go down well, huh?

    These fucken people have lost their minds in their zealotry like the people that eagerly drank the Jim Jones koolaid. The death and destruction will follow just as surely as Jonestown.

    • Hi XM,

      Toyota won’t need a bailout. There is a reason that Toyota has not made an EV since the RAV4 in 1997…the public doesn’t want them.

      Toyota has always been first in technology and reliance. They brought forth the Prius and most of their current engines are hybrid.

      Auto manufacturers and government bureaucrats are morons. If these people had any brains they would have focused on hybrid technology and gave the public time to get use to the idea before immediately mandating EVs. If one’s child doesn’t eat veggies you start them with mashed potatoes before demanding they eat Brussel sprouts.

      The auto manufacturers jumped the shark and it will cost both Ford and GM their companies. Toyota is now working on a hydrogen engine. The Big 3 (like most of our Congress) are dinosaurs. They have lost their edge in creating innovative designs that the public wants. All they know how to do is rinse, recycle, repeat. They have destroyed Detroit, American jobs, and our enthusiasm for automobiles. They are in bed with Uncle Sam (whose only claim to fame is thievery) and know their time is limited. They will milk the American taxpayer like the bottom feeders they are and then be put out to dry.

      The only “Taco Bells” that will be left standing will be Toyota and Chick Fil A.

      • Hi RG! Well that actually is positive sounding. I didn’t know that about Toyota. I thought with the CEO getting axed, etc., that they were joining the suicide pact!

        Well good for them and hallelujah! I’m much more OK with hydrogen than EV.

        I can’t wait to see the American companies disaster unfold. They have earned it so bad. Good riddance.

      • Add In-n-Out to the “Taco Bell” list, but, sadly, here in Texas it is a sign of infestation of an area by Californians.

        Subaru will stick around because it is part of Fuji Heavy Industries, a small part of a very large company. They will have to lose the obnoxious saaaaafety gadgetry, which is worse than most.

      • Toyota seems to be working to develop solid state EV batteries, realizing the current lithium batteries are losers. Solid state batteries have every advantage over conventional lithium batteries except one big disadvantage: Much higher manufacturing cost — possible 4x nore currently. The last thing EVs need is a much higher price, but they have needed better batteries for over a century.

        Toyota is developing the solid-state batteries through Prime Planet Energy & Solutions Inc., a joint venture with Panasonic that started operations in April 2020… By 2027, they aim to have solid-state batteries in production cars, a timeline that has impressed many observers and caused others to claim “BS”. I’m a Toyota cCamry owner and Toyota fan, but a much better EV battery that costs a fortune to make doesn’t solve many problems with EVs.

        • Hi Richard,

          Are these the same batteries that they are trying to get a range of around 900 miles per charge out of?

          Toyota has a winner with the hybrid engines. I am also for them working on a hydrogen engine. The EVs are going nowhere.

          Exxon has now joined the “let’s find some lithium” game and are talking about building out their EV charger network. I am hoping it is all talk and Exxon is just sitting back saying one thing and doing another.

          • Where does one obtain hydrogen? Maybe I’m wrong on this, but last I checked it’s a dead weight loss since separating it from it’s molecular bond requires more energy than the hydrogen itself provides.

            • Hi ML

              Hydrogen looks good on paper until you examine some of its serious downsides. Creation, storage, distribution are just three that come to mind. I’m certain that given enough time/thought/skill/money most of those could be worked out. But why bother when ICE engines are here NOW? Their fuel creation storage and distribution are solved problems. Contrary to various doomers “Peak Oil” never seems to arrive. Just so long as the search for new sources is funded. Not to mention that ICE evolution continues. What is needed is to get the Climate Cultists and their enablers out of the way, so that human prosperity can continue and expand to ever more people.

  15. MaaS. Mobility as a Service.

    If you think the cars and gas are expensive, wait until the monthly bills start arriving to use the roads.

  16. Given the steady downfall of the US economy, what makes them think people are going to be able to afford their “subscription” fee? FedGov has a solution for that too. 15 minute cities. Which won’t bail out the car makers. Or anyone else, except the “more equal” animals, who seem to be doing quite well.

    • Have you rented a car in the last few years? It’s nuts. Renting cars is to owning cars as renting a hotel is to owning a house. Unless you’re a multimillionaire, it’s not a reasonable approach for anything beyond a short term situation.

      And that’s nowadays where ICE vehicles have made rental cars as “affordable” as they have been.

      And an Uber ride is just as expensive as a taxi in most places that I’ve been. Heck, I think taxi has been cheaper in some cases. Again, that is using the current situation “afforded” by ICE vehicles.

      All that shit is going to skyrocket. Fuck no, people won’t be able to afford that shit. It’s going to be bicycles, busses, and walking after all the used ICE vehicles finally get taken off the road (or at least out of most people’s possession).

      Which further brings out the fallacy in general. 15 minute cities? Have you been to a big city? They don’t lend themselves to easy reorganization on a whim or even a good pipe dream. Zoning and plain old steel, concrete, and asphalt doesn’t magically reshape itself because people high on climate change think it must be done.

      The other point you mentioned, steady downfall of the US economy — they can’t pick the pockets of a naked man. They’ve already shaken down everyone. With everybody broke, can’t get a real job (can’t drive!), inflation skyrocketing, all of this shit has no other place to go than absolute obliteration of life as we know it.

      If the lunatics are not stopped, the consequences are gonna be a mother fucker!

    • If you think through “15 minute cities” it turns out to be yet another fallacy that doesn’t withstand the slightest bit of scrutiny. !5 minutes travel at 25 mph (the fastest you can go in modern utopia) is 6.25 miles and that’s without traffic and assuming a straight line.

      So, if you could imagine “everything you need” to be a geometry point (i.e., occupying zero space), that would mean a city with a diameter of 12.5 miles. Obviously “everything you need” occupies non-zero space, maybe even several city blocks or even miles.

      Draw a circle (“everything you need” area) inside another circle (the extent of the 15 minute city), where everyone on the circumference is 6.25 miles at most from the farthest point away on the inner “everything you need” circle. That would necessarily reduce the outer circle from the 12.5 diameter.

      If you can’t drive, maybe an e-bike would get you those 6.25 miles in 15 minutes but the bus in no fucken scenario will. Walking at 4 mph, your “15 minutes” is 1 mile.

      The area occupied by a circle with a 12.5 mile diameter is just under 123 square miles. The area of Los Angeles is 501.55 sq miles for comparison. The Greater Los Angeles area (which most people call “L.A.”) is 33,954 sq mi or roughly 208 miles in diameter.

      The whole thing is stupid pipe dream and that’s before we even talk about how overloaded the existing “public transportation” system already is.

        • Maybe the next iteration actually is some form of “you need nothing.” You know, dressed up in something like “…that is not delivered to your cubicle by the government.”

          So then they would eliminate the “everything you need” circle to zero space point. Then the entire glorious 12.5 circumference utopia will essentially just be a large jail. You could get yard privileges if you’re a fan of keeeeeeev or high on climate change, etc.

          imagine how safe that would be! 😉

      • Hi XM,
        Excellent summation, also what happens when there’s snow and ice and it’s 20 below zero? Tough to walk even without carrying bags of groceries, the whole idea is a total crock of shit. We need to laugh in the faces of these control freaks and tell them to f*ck off.

  17. Transportation as a service sounds like it could work until you think about it.

    What happens next for example:

    You go shopping at a variety of stores; what happens when you have a stack of bags and a couple more stores to go to?

    You shoot IPSIC but need to make a couple stops afterwords including lunch?

    You made fun of the masktards on Faceslap and your social credit score drops to -787885?

    I won’t even bring up smoking or tracking your movement as your phone already does that.

    Mobility is freedom and allows you to resist coercion and maybe that’s why they want to take our cars away from us.

    • The end goal is to take ALL of our assets to finance THEIR lifestyle. Steal your stuff and then rent it back to you. Good work if you can get it, and FedGov can, through armed robbery. I woke up decades ago, the government is not your friend. I keep waiting for the rest to do so. Looks like it’s going the other direction.

      • But as Janis Joplin sang “Freedom means you’ve got nothing left to lose” and when that happens I think people are going to go totally apesh*t. Whether it will wind up looking like the European experience as told in the book “Savage Continent” I can’t say but it won’t be good if they want to turn us all into serfs (with mRNA vaxxe’s it might even be Smurfs :)).

      • Most people have already bought into the own nothing model. How many Americans own their home outright, or cars with no payments? If you have car payments, mortgage, payments on a boat or RV or whatever, then you already don’t “own” anything. Of course even if they are paid off you don’t own them anyway since you have to pay the government its property taxes, but that’s a different story. Look at your monthly budget. You’re already most of the way to a subscription model. Health insurance, cable tv, internet service, cell phone, electricity and water, a lot of software, if you need things like MS Office or Autocad, or Photoshop. Landscape and lawn mowing, HVAC maintenance, all of it goes away as soon as you stop making the monthly payments. All that other neat stuff you’ve accumulated over a lifetime? Sound systems, tv’s, fancy cutlery, cameras etc etc? Believe me, after clearing out a few estates from family members, no matter how many tens of thousands of dollars you spent to accumulate that house and garage full of junk, if you have to liquidate, you’ll be lucky to get a few hundred bucks with a garage sale. Nope, sorry kids, you already don’t own anything. I do hope you’re happy though!

        • Hi Floriduh,

          I think you’re right. Especially as regards the younger crowd, who’ve grown up with this “model.” I’m sympathetic, to a degree, for that reason. Imagine not being able to say “no” to things like health insurance at work, as a 25-year-old (and save thousands annually that way). Imagine the prospect of buying and owning a home being a distant mirage, due to exorbitant home prices, plus high inflation and interest rates. I know a kid – he’s actually a young man now in his early 20s – who is going to build a “tiny home” on a relative’s property (where he lives) because that is all he can afford. He won’t own it – or build equity. But it’s better than living in the room he grew up in….

      • I have had long-time nurse friends criticize me for not saving a dime for retirement. I figured that by the time I got around to “retiring”, Uncle Sam would steal all the money I had saved, it would be worthless due to hyper inflation, or, I would not be able to afford retirement. I figured it would be better to wisely spend the money now while I have it, rather than save it just for globalists like Bill Gates, Klaus Schwab, or the crooks in our government.

        • Hi Shadow,

          Exactly my philosophy as well. I “save” by not spending. And the money I save, I invest in things of tangible value I have physical control over. I cannot imagine pouring money into a 401k and then having it just taken away (or rendered worthless by inflation). I believe it is much sounder policy to pay off a home and own land. Then you won’t have to worry about “retirement” much because if you own a home/land you ought not to need much money to live comfortably on in “retirement.” Besides which, who does that? “Retire,” I mean. As in, stop working. Stagnation – and death – comes next. Work is good – and healthy – especially when you don’t have to.

          • you never own land! you have the loan or loans paid off yes. but property taxes ensure you never ever own it. stop paying it for a year and see who the ”owner’ is….but i agree with your thoughts on that. i am pocket poor but i have invested in me and my family and our long term needs rather then what the ‘investment bankers’ want me to invest in. the ability to be self sufficient or as much as possible in ‘Biff’s World’ the world of the Bent Ones.

        • That sounds pretty stupid. You’re going to end up being taken care of by the government you hate. Instead of being responsible for yourself and saving for a time when you will need it you’ve decided to instead risk being a burden on your fellow tax payers. Thanks a lot!

          Hopefully your current lifestyle is as poorly managed as your savings plan and you are wrecking your health so that you just keel over and die instead of needing years of convalescent care in a government home.

          • Cashy,

            You seem to believe you know best – for everyone else. Typical authoritarian control freak busybody – tinged with the sadism that often accompanies it. Viz, “Hopefully your current lifestyle is as poorly managed as your savings plan and you are wrecking your health so that you just keel over and die…”

            Despicable. What a vile person you are.

            And: How’s this for “stupid”:

            I own my house and land. I own my vehicles. I owe no one a god-damned cent. I’d be in a position to not have to work at all – for money – were it not for people like you, who shove their paws in my pants at every turn.

            I don’t need a “plan” – much less a government “plan.”

            That’s for people like you.

          • “you’ve decided to instead risk being a burden on your fellow tax payers. Thanks a lot!”

            About 40% of older Americans may be relying exclusively on Social Security for income, according to recent research.

            As a self-employed individual, generally you are required to file an annual return and pay estimated tax quarterly. Self-employed individuals generally must pay self-employment (SE) tax as well as income tax. SE tax is a Social Security and Medicare tax primarily for individuals who work for themselves.

            Social Security is a welfare program that significantly reduced old age poverty. Any criticisms must not ignore that fact.

            Investing in a home, cars, trucks motorcycles and even art can be great investments — better than stocks and bonds if you have knowledge and take care of your assets.

            “you are wrecking your health”
            That’s a low blow. EP is always bragging about lifting weights. He’s no couch potato.

            And I’ve got news for you: A nursing home can cost over $5,000 a month, so few people can afford them from their own savings.

            • My comment was not directed at EP but at Shadow who has not saved a dime for his retirement. And so many Americans would not be relying solely on SS if they had saved when younger. And SS is not completely a welfare program as you do pay into it and if the money was invested it could theoretically cover many peoples payout.

              It’s interesting that on a forum where “tax is theft” and thus the payment of food stamps to impoverished children is “stealing”, I am considered “vile” for not appreciating that someone is choosing to be a burden on the system unlike those children that do not have a choice. Save me the feigned outrage at me expressing desire for a far less cruel fate for a freeloader then you would impose on a child.

              Also stop with “authoritarian control freak busybody” accusations as nothing in that post was authoritarian, controlling, or being a busybody. You are just throwing out insults that you imagine me to be because you can’t argue my logic. Stick to the subject and spare me the emotion.

              • You make all kinds of implied assumptions about Shadow’s situation then explicitly hope for him to keel over and die based on your implied assumptions. That makes you vile.

                I had some bee-hotch scream “I hope you die” at me when I didn’t wear a face diaper at a polling place in 2020. Understand that, by your explicit words, you exhibit those same authoritarian control freak busybody tendencies. You’re not all cool and collected and on some high ground. You are that bee-hotch.

                • I didn’t “hope” for him to die. I hoped that when he died it would be quick so as to save us taxpayers a few bucks. Big difference.

                  I’m sure the person that screamed at you for not wearing a facemask was not concerned about your health, perhaps she thought you were so ugly that she hoped you would cover your face?

                  • Stop dissembling. That’s not what you said above. Your explicit words hoped for his death.

                    You’re right, though, that bee-hotch had no concern for my health. Her only concern was that I didn’t truckle sufficiently to arrogant authority on the phonied up basis of her implied assertions. Just like you have no real concern for the potential harms to impoverished children should they go without food stamps. Just hysterical authoritarian control freak tendencies that you wish to satisfy vicariously.

                    • Your reading comprehension skills are as bad as ever, I did not hope for his death, but that when he dies it is quickly. Don’t assume what is not written.

                      Why would I not have concern for starving children?

                      And it’s bee-otch, NOT bee-hotch.

                    • Cashy,

                      You are in no position to lecture about reading comprehension as you have amply demonstrated a deficit in that regard.

                      And – spare me your “concern” for starving children. You are “concerned” – that other people are forced to pay to feed them. If you were truly concerned, you’d feed them. Using your money.

                      But you’re not that “concerned,” are you?

                  • Cashy,

                    You literally used the word “hopefully,” as follows:

                    Hopefully your current lifestyle is as poorly managed as your savings plan and you are wrecking your health so that you just keel over and die

                    Italics added. It’s clear what you meant. And now you’re trying to backpedal rather than own up.

                    • you forgot the rest of the sentence: “instead of needing years of convalescent care in a government home.” Which clearly indicates an end of life situation that could be many years in the future not immediately. Obviously I don’t care when he dies just that it doesn’t cost the taxpayer a lot of money.

                    • Cashy,

                      You assume as fact rather than assertion “needing years of convalescent care in a government home.”

                      Are you truly as thick as that?

                      Shadow is probably like me in that he takes care of himself and loathes the notion of anyone else being forced to take care of him. You seem to believe everyone is a “freeloader” because some are – and so everyone should be presumed one, even if they aren’t.

              • Cashy,

                Get your facts straight. Or – at least – try to remember them when others point them out to you. Viz:

                “And SS is not completely a welfare program as you do pay into it …”

                Wrong. It is entirely a welfare program. The money people get is not the money that was taken from them. People didn’t “pay in,” either. They were forced to pay. Mark the difference.

                The fact that Shadow isn’t “saving” to your liking does not mean he is stealing from anyone. Another glaring example of your “logic.”

                How has he “freeloaded” on anyone? Please be specific. Of course, you won’t be – because you can’t be. Instead, you will say he might “freeload” at some future date. The same bullshit assertion of harm you leveled at me for daring to shun being “covered” and objecting to laws so requiring.

                More of your “logic.”

                You then say:

                “Also stop with “authoritarian control freak busybody” accusations as nothing in that post was authoritarian, controlling, or being a busybody.”

                You mean except for the part about urging I be forced to pay “fines” for “speeding” and not “buckling up” – because you fear for the “safety” of yourself and yours – and that if I don’t pay up, I be locked up? Gee, nothing busybody-ish or control-freak-like there, eh?

                You really ought to stop while you’re behind.

                • Reading comprehension issues again.

                  SS is not entirely welfare because it is paid into an account and is tracked for each person. Welfare recipients pay nothing into those programs specifically.

                  Shadow’s not saving is an issue of freeloading if he lives long enough to be a burden on the state. That is what I would object to.

                  Wanting someone to obey the laws that effect my safety is not authoritarian. I would want you jailed if you drove at a high speed lost control and killed someone. Am I now an authoritarian busybody for wanting that?

                  • Maybe Shadow has assets that are appreciating, has additional income coming in (e.g., rental property), or his parents are ultra wealthy and has a trust fund established for him.

                    We also have no idea on the amount of Social Security he has paid in over the years. If he maxxed out the Social Security cap each year and began taking it at 62 he would receive around $3200/month. He may also have no debt. So, $38,400 a year could pay for his utilities, taxes, and food.

                    The majority of people on this site hate welfare so it would be very surprising to me if they chose to sign up for it. We cannot scream hypocrisy until it truly exists.

                  • Cashew –

                    Get your facts straight (again).

                    “SS is not entirely welfare because it is paid into an account and is tracked for each person. Welfare recipients pay nothing into those programs specifically.”

                    There is no “account.” Well, there is nothing in the “account.” The money that was taken went into the general fund and has been spent. Gone. The “account” is a fiction. A contrivance to trick the stupid into believing SS is a kind of annuity. It’s not. It is a simple wealth transfer regime. The fact that welfare recipients haven’t paid – been forced to pay – SS does not obviate the fact. And they still collect, don’t they?

                    “Shadow’s not saving is an issue of freeloading if he lives long enough to be a burden on the state. That is what I would object to”

                    IF... note the IF... which you always oilily present as a fact.

                    “Wanting someone to obey the laws that effect my safety is not authoritarian.”

                    Who decides what “safety” is? How is your feeling about that morally binding upon me? Some felt mandates that demanded everyone wear that idiotic rag over their face “effected” their “safety.”

                    ” I would want you jailed if you drove at a high speed lost control and killed someone. ”

                    And I agree. But the fact is I haven’t killed or even hurt anyone. So how now, brown cow? You still want me jailed – because you fear I could “lose control” and “kill someone.” The fact that I haven’t and didn’t cuts no ice with people like you, who seem unable to understand the distinction between an actuality and an assertion.

                    I’m surprised you aren’t a fan of Greta’s. She asserts the “climate” is “changing.” And her fears require us to give up cars and single family homes and eat ze bugs.

                    You really ought to stop.

                    • Indeed, Eric. And what Cashy does not understand, is that Social Security asked, and borrowed from the Railroad Retirement twice in the 90’s to bail them out, because they were broke, and never repaid back the borrowed money to Burlington Northern. There is no “account” in my name, and Eric is right about that. It is nothing more than a cushy slush fund for greedy politicians. As for my own money situation, Cashy, that is none of your damned business. I expect and want nothing from no one, and sure as hell not from the likes of you, or people like you. Oh, by the way, when the markets crashed in ’08, I had a nurse friend that lost $300,000 out of her 401K. So much for saving for her later years. I do not need any of your pearls of wisdom, because if I followed them, I would end up shit creek without a paddle. But continue to post if you want. It makes no difference to me. I have walked out of and survived hell. I will survive the future no matter what it throws at me, and no matter what people try to verbally throw my way.

              • Cashy
                I couldn’t tell who you were respomding to so i pointed out that a lot of people live on Social Security after being forced to contribute for decades. People can survive with no personal savings.

                Very few people can save enough money for years of convalescent care in a government or private home, at $60,000 to $150,000 a year, without at least some government aid

                Are you trying to take my job here as the regular heckler?

                Social Secuity is a welfare program that takes money from working people and immediately transfers that money to non-working people. There is no real SS trust fund filled with valuable assets — just a stack of IOUs. In fact, since 2010, SS has had to borrow money from the other half of the US government, because SS taxes were not sufficient to pay all SS benefits.

                • RG: Social Secuity is a welfare program that takes money from working people and immediately transfers that money to non-working people. There is no real SS trust fund filled with valuable assets — just a stack of IOUs.///////////////

                  It’s NOT a welfare fund! Where the assets that back the account comes from is merely a bookkeeping matter.

                  The money I have in the CD at the bank is not there either. The bank is not holding $20k of my cash in a spot in their safe. They use the money elsewhere and when it’s time to pay me they take it out of their account. USGov has the cash somewhere and so far they have managed to make the payments. In a similar manner the payments each person makes is tracked. Even if it’s just transferring from one person to another that’s the way it works at every bank too.

                  And the fund is filled with valuable assets. The full faith and credit of the US gov. That doesn’t mean much to people here but in the real world that is the gold standard for debt payback. I hope it remains that way until I need to collect.

                  • Social Security is nothing like a CD. With a CD you have a right to a certain sum of money. SS is simply a tax along with a welfare program. The Supreme Court in Helvering v. Davis said “The proceeds of both the employee and employer taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like any other internal revenue generally, and are not earmarked in any way.”

                    • It’s basically the same thing. Your agreement with the bank is subject to their ability to pay, if they default you could be screwed, if the government defaults same thing. They’re both variable interest investments based on different contract conditions. SS is not welfare as you have to pay into for a time to qualify. The conditions are ridiculously generous but are there nonetheless. Welfare comes no strings attached except need.

                    • Cashy,

                      Your assertion that SS isn’t a wealth transfer payment scheme is wrong – because that’s exactly what it is. You repeat the flim-flam about “investments” and “accounts,” which are of a piece with the “contributions” people are forced to make. The welfare people receive in the form of SS is not a thing they have a right to. The courts have stated this explicitly. You have zero ownerships rights. If you die before retirement age, your heirs get nothing – no matter how much the government forced you to “contribute” over your working life. If you die later on, the payments end. Your spouse gets nothing.

                      It’s a dole. Period. All the verbal garbanzo you adduce doesn’t alter the fact.

                    • Cashy you are incredibly dense. In your mind you’re always right, even though the United States Supreme Court said almost 100 years ago that you’re wrong. Face facts. You’re an ignoramus.

                  • There are NO conventional investment assets in the SS trust fund. Just US government IOU promises to fund future SS benefits by borrowing money when an IOU is cashed in.

                    A “fund” filled with promises to borrow money and pay off IOUs is far from the traditional definition of a trust fund. The phrase “trust fund? is really propaganda for what is essentially senior citizen welfare.

                    The working person’s SS taxes are immediately transferred to SS recipients. That’s a transfer payment, aka welfare.

                    I am not complaining about SS because I get over $3,000 a month of SS benefits, so I have no right to complain.

                    Most bank deposits have FDIC insurance.

                    With SS, there were excess tax revenues after Reagan raised the tax rate. The SS tax revenues not needed for SS benefits were loaned to “the other half” of the government and spent. SS received IOUs in return.

                    Since 2010, SS benefits have exceeded SS tax revenues so some IOUs had to be “cashed in”. When the IOUs run out, there is no guarantee Congress will vote to bail out the SS Administration. And then SS benefits would be reduced.

                    • You get over 3K per month. How much did you pay in? I am guessing a boatload. 3K+ is a pretty good SS payment. Unfortunately it does not keep up with inflation. If you live a long time you will get your money back. Check out the mortality tables generated by actuaries. If you took the clot shot shot well the tables are wrong. The monkey wrench to the insurance industry, look for big increases in life insurance prices and exclusions for things like Myocarditis after getting the kill shot. I am guessing you were were smart enough not to take it.

                    • Morning, Ugg!

                      Perhaps the worst thing about SS is the way it has set the old against the young – by making the young pay for the old (with the young realizing they, in their turn, will be preying on the future young when they are old). Instead of people being responsible for themselves and dependent on their families and friends when circumstances warrant, people are habituated to being dependent upon the government.

                      The cruel irony is that, for the most part, if there were no such thing as SS and people were obliged to be be future-time oriented and prudent, most people would be much better off without SS. As a hypothetical case-in-point, imagine a man who is hard-working and prudent with money. And because 15 percent of his money has not been stolen from him via SS taxes, by the age of 40 he owns his home and is debt free. If he is not obliged to pay property taxes on his home, he has very few expenses – plus the money he “saved” by not being forced to pay those taxes. In addition to not having to pay SS. By 50, he will have accrued a substantial nest egg, not including the value of his home. He could probably cease working – on account of needing to – at this point. But he will likely continue to work because he wants to and from this point forward, he leads a financially secure and comfortable life.

                      Instead, he works like a coolie all his life and ends up with little savings and dependent upon a government check for his subsistence.

                  • Cashy,

                    Do you really not understand that a CD is your legal property – that you cannot be denied your money – whereas SS is simply a dole that you have no legal right to in that what you get is entirely at the discretion of the government?

                    As I mentioned already, there is an easy way to understand the difference:

                    If you die, your CD (or 401k) becomes the legal property of your designated heirs. Because it is your property. If you die before you reach SS age, everything you “contributed” disappears. Your heirs have no legal right to a penny – because neither did you.

          • You stupid fool. The government is not going to take care of anyone. Not me, and not your pathetic ass. I will make it in my old age one way or another whether the dollar crashes or manages to hang on or not. If you are ever so lucky the government will not resort to liquidating those deemed “too old”. On which case, all your plans just went to shit…

            • As Richard pointed out because of the high cost of elder care nearly everyone gets taken care of by the government if they live long enough. And I hope you live a long life which will be enhanced by whatever you are able to save right now. And will lessen your dependency on the government if it comes to that.

              • Cashy writes:

                “…because of the high cost of elder care nearly everyone gets taken care of by the government if they live long enough.”

                You have a habit of making these broad-brush assertions and then using these as if they were specific facts to justify your one-size-fits-all government-snuggling arguments. There are people who provide for themselves – which I admit has become much harder to do because of government snugglers such as yourself, who defend and demand policies that impoverish everyone for the sake of your beliefs about what they “ought” to do, “need” to do and also how much they “owe” random strangers, just because they have – and others lack.

                You cannot abide responsible people – because of your fear of the irresponsible. Thus, everyone (in Cashy World) must be presumed and treated as irresponsible, irrespective of the specific facts.

              • Hard to save much when FedGov confiscates nearly half of one’s income, and inflates away the value of what one may save. Add in State and local taxes and fees, and it IS half, or more, depending on the State.
                Every government is founded upon it’s assumption of authority to kill you if you disobey. They are no one’s friend, except those who profit from such authority. As in not earning said profit.

      • >The end goal is to take ALL of our assets to finance THEIR lifestyle.

        >Last month, the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) announced it had developed a new asset class and accompanying listing vehicle meant “to preserve and restore the natural assets that ultimately underpin the ability for there to be life on Earth.” Called a natural asset company, or NAC, the vehicle will allow for the formation of specialized corporations “that hold the rights to the ecosystem services produced on a given chunk of land, services like carbon sequestration or clean water.” These NACs will then maintain, manage and grow the natural assets they commodify, with the end of goal of maximizing the aspects of that natural asset that are deemed by the company to be profitable.

        >I expect that, in the long run, this will be “pay to breathe,” as well as other horrors. You think you “own your land?” Guess again.

        >Maybe so, but some Wall Street “securitized asset class” will own a) the rain that falls on it, b) the air that flows over it, c) any water, surface or subterranean, which flows through it. Welcome to hell. Because the self-appointed “Masters of he Universe” are determined to own the ENTIRE ecosystem, and we, the peasants, will be recast as “poachers” of the Masters’ “rightful assets.”

        • Hi Adi,

          The NAC is scary as hell. They are bragging to us what they are about to do. That is how confident they are that they will succeed. Americans need to pull back the curtain. This is not OZ. They are coming for us…all of us.

          I know many on here hate corporations and trusts, but if you have any assets worth protecting one needs to make it hard for them to trace them out. Skip the biography of Abraham Lincoln and pick one up on establishing a revocable trust. Get your finances in order and payoff any debt. The elite believe this will be easy to seize our assets…let’s at least make them work for it.

          • Hi, RG,
            >pick one up on establishing a revocable trust.
            Sound advice, and a path I pursued long ago.
            I haven’t owned anything of significant value for decades.
            A trust owns the assets. I am only the trustee.

            But the larger question is, “What are the assets?”
            I have already read of cases where it was “deemed” illegal for someone to collect the rain water which fell on the roof of his house. We have all read of the situation where a corporation owns the subsurface mineral rights, including the right to extract by surface mining, and therefore to kick the property “owner ” off of the property to extract the minerals.

            As I read it, the NAC is the manifestation of the intent to extend that concept to anything and everything of value which may be associated with a property. If these thieves succeed, bare legal title will mean *absolutely* *nothing*.

            And that is why, as you have said,
            >The NAC is scary as hell.

            • Hi Adi,

              I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV, but it seems to me there has got to be some type of loophole where the owner could maintain their land and seal it off from government theft.

              Something like a conservation trust. I know many of these are overseen by government or a non profit. Could the landowner set up a land trust and maintain full control of their soil? Maybe an extended family (grandma, grandpa, aunt, uncle, etc.) or a community could form such a thing and then control it.

              E.g. you have three rural neighbors who own a total of 1800 acres of land. These three neighbors setup a land trust with each neighbor being a trustee. A conservation trust would at least impede the bureaucrats from immediately claiming the property as theirs. Of course, the land trust would have to be owned by a non profit (who, surprise, surprise) would be the three rural neighbors as the Board of Directors.

              Maybe a real lawyer could chime in and see if this is even an option.

          • Why is the NAC scary? You would have to sell those rights to such a corporation, as mentioned this already happens with people that sell the mineral rights to their property.
            Just don’t sell and you will be fine.

              • I propose that everyone stay in the closet.
                Keep your politics, religion and sex life private. I was going to ask my Congressperson to sponsor a Stay in the Closet Bill, until I found out she was Dumbocrat Rachida Tlaib, my two US Senators are both Dumbocrats, Governor Witless is a Dumbocrat and so is President Bidet. I’m doomed.

                • Hi Richard,

                  Politics is only a contentious subject because of the curled lip and bared fang that accompanies it. If the government were “limited” – if it restricted itself to protecting the right of peaceful people to be left in peace – politics would be just another academic discussion; interesting in the abstract but without the implicit threat.

                  • The goal of libertarianism is to repeatedly ask why governments have so much control of our lives.

                    Why does the federal government have do this?

                    Whay can’t state governments be in charge?

                    Why do state governments have to do this?

                    Why can’t local governments be in charge?

                    Why do local governments have to do this?

                    Why can’t individuals be in charge of this issue?

                    When you ask why enough times, you realize that most of federal government authority is excessive.

                    Libertarianism means:
                    Minimum Government and Maximum Personal Freedom

              • I have virtually nothing in common with “leftists” that is just more of your name calling because you can’t or won’t understand the logic of my positions. You have an irrational view of life and politics, that somehow you should be “free” and so also free of the responsibilities you bear, not as a consequence of government as you whine, but due to the fact you are a human being living in a society with other human beings. You and many others here will be constantly frustrated by life if you don’t understand better how it works instead of fighting it for how you want it to work. I too want freedom but I also understand that it won’t be complete unless I move to a deserted island and so try to make the best of what is possible here and now. Not reach for the impossible.

                • Cashy,

                  “I have virtually nothing in common with “leftists” that is just more of your name calling…”

                  You have everything that is fundamental to Leftists in common with them. That being a fundamental reverence for authority – it’s the law! – and snarling contempt for those who do not share it and dare to defy it. Even when the law in question is stupid. Even when it is evil. Never mind. It’s the law!

                  The “logic of your positions” is tortured and absurd. For example, I have always insisted that everyone be responsible for what they do; you twist this around to everyone being “responsible” for what others do. And for what they have not even done – but might!

                  I have an “irrational view of life”?

                  The sad thing is that you don’t even realize how contradictory and absurd your “logic” is.

                  You could argue that “society” has the “right” to impose burdens on people. It would not be logical. But it would be an argument.

                  • I understand his logic perfectly. He thinks there’s such a thing as “good” government. In spite of the death and destruction they meet out.

                    • Hi John

                      But aren’t WE the government?? (wide eyed innocent look) 🙂

                      Those who have drank the civic religion Kool Aid, can’t seem to understand the basic reality at play here. Government is, and has always been, simply a organized Gang of thieves and murderers writ large. Anything that one wants “Government” to do, is done at the implied (if not overt) point of a gun. How could it be any other way? Government has nothing that it doesn’t first TAKE from either the present or the future.

                      Collectivists have warped their minds around abstracts. The “will of the People”, the “Greater Good”, The “Responsibility to Protect” etc… All cover words/phrases for do it our way or else. Only by focusing on individuals and their rights AND responsibilities can one reach a sane system of social interaction. Power corrupts. Not just people, but entire systems and civilizations. One need only to look around our current dismal situation to know that. We need MUCH less government at all levels in our lives. It has wisely been said that that government that governs least, governs best. I’d amend that to say that that government that governs not at all is better.


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