Having to buy car insurance – motorcycle insurance, in the case at hand – is bad enough. No one ought to be forced to buy anything. The fact that you get something in return – never mindĀ whether you wanted the thing – doesn’t change the coercive nature of the transaction.
Ironically, as regards forcing people who own and want to be allowed to legally operate a vehicle on what are not the public’s roads (if they were, then the public would be free to use the public roads without being obliged to obtain permission from the government to do so) the coercion that is used to make people buy insurance is based on the idea that if people were free to choose to buy insurance, the result would be harms caused to innocent others.
Consider the moral absurdity of this idea.
The person who is coerced to buy insurance is innocent. He has not harmed others. But on the supposition that he might harm others – and might not be able or willing to bear financial responsibility for such hypothetical harms – it is justifiable to actually harm him. He is made to hand over a large sum of money every six months or once annually that is not refundable even if he does not cause any harm.
Some don’t consider coercing people to hand over money for a service or product to be a harm. This is the squeegee man argument. Or rather, it is a defense of the actions of those homeless mafiosi who implicitly threaten motorists – their vehicles – at busy city intersections with harm if they do not hand over money in exchange for the services of the squeegee man, who smears the car’s windshield with his greasy, Aqualung rag.
The insurance mafia is more organized. It is also more threatening because it has the backing of the government. You are free to not “tip” the squeegee man, if you’re willing to run the risk he might hock a loogie on your windshield. More fundamentally, you are free to avoid the squeegee man, as by finding a route to work that isn’t plagued by squeegee men.
You are not free to avoid the insurance squeegee man. More to the point, if you do avoid him – and the government finds out you did – then the government will harm you. It will cancel your vehicle’s registration and demand you take off/return the stamped steel ear tags all vehicles are obliged to display in order to be allowed on what are not the public roads. It will also often impose financial harm on the victim who hasn’t victimized anyone – by socking him with what are insouciantly styled “fines,” as if the victim did something (to someone) to justify being “fined.”
But what does the government do when the insurance mafia summarily decides to cease providing the service its victim is strong-armed into paying for?
Interestingly little, as it turns out.
I’ve been handing over money to the Markel America family for more than 20 years, for motorcycle insurance I’ve never once needed to use. About $300 annually for three bikes – which may not seem a lot to some. (I always ask such people whether they’d mind being threatened with harm if they didn’t hand over even $20 once a year to a curbside squeegee man. I’ve yet to find anyone who doesn’t mind that. Yet most people defend what amounts to the same and much worse when it comes to the insurance squeegee man.)
Well, about two weeks ago I received a letter from Markel informing me that the family had decided to stop providing the services it uses the government to coerce me into paying for. Not me, specifically. Everyone who lives in my state – Virginia – who was coerced into doing “business” with Markel. No particular reason was given in the letter – and I was unable to get one from Markel, when I called to try to find out why.
But I think I can guess why.
Markel did the math and decided there was not enough profit in coercing people to buy its services in my state.Ā Perhaps because of state-defined limits upon what the mafia could coerce victims to hand over who’ve never been responsible for causing harm to anyone and who have “clean” records; i.e., records free of trumped-up excuses to coerce the victim to pay more money for Markel’s services.
But what’s most interesting is the incongruity.
The mafia enjoys the right to decline to do business with those who are coerced into doing business with the mafia – in order to make more money. But I am not free (and neither are you) to try to save money, as by doing the math and arriving at the reasonable conclusion that the very real cost of insurance is too high relative to the hypothetical benefits. We are only free to make appeal to another branch of the family, in the hope of getting a better deal. Which is kind of like a picked-on kid trying to find a nicer bully to hand over his lunch money to.
And – in this case – under pressure to make the “deal” fast.
Markel’s letter arrived three weeks before the expiration date of my policy with them, leaving me not much time to make successful supplication (just the right word; if you were customer, you’d have the power to say no – which is just the power that’s been taken away from us) to another of the Five Families before the expiration date of my “deal” with the Markel Family.
If I fail to make a “deal” by the expiration date, there will be immediate repercussions for me. Because the deal is that the second my expiration date arrives, the Markel Mafia will let the government know it has – and then the government will demand to know (and require me to substantiate) that I have handed over money to one of the other Families.
No quarter for me, in other words. Or for you. For anyone. The mafia, on the other hand, is free to use threats to coerce payments, squeegee man-style and free to do the math we’re not allowed to do.
Because, of course, that’s what mafias do.
And they’re able to do it without the taint of the regular mafia. And without the honest criminality of the squeegee man.
It gets tiring. I’ve already decided that if the “deals” available from the other families mean paying substantially more than I’ve been paying (been coerced into paying) then I won’t be paying anymore.
Motorcycles? What motorcycles? I sold those months ago.
A point comes, eventually, when it’s not enough to just want to be left in peace – if you want to be left in peace. We will not comply our way out of the corporatist, technocratic, managerial system that’s pillaging and enserfing us.
We must tell it to go to Hell. And that might best be done by just ignoring it and driving – and riding – on.
To those who draw back in umbrage – how dare you! – I ask that you consider the concept of not endorsing the use of coercion against people who’ve not caused you or anyone else any harm. Hold them responsible, by all means, if they do cause harm – for that is moral and so justifiable.
But there is no justice in making anyone hand over money to pay for harms that haven’t occurred on the theory that this is necessary to assure the harms he hasn’t caused will be paid for.
Just a thought.
. . .
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Since I work like a dog for every penny, IOW I do not want to waste my hard earned money on car insurance since I have never filed a claim. So after decades of paying I just stopped carrying insurance and made my own “proof of insurance” card.
Being a back yard mechanic and making hundreds of trips to wrecking yards, I collect insurance cars from the wrecks. I then studied them and using my computer and printer fabricated my own – printed them out – then cut along the dotted lines just like a real card.
And since I am a joker I called my insurance company USSA which is similar to USAA – the military insurance company. I had to show it to cops a couple of times and it passed. All the cop does is check to see if you have insurance. I showed him “proof of insurance” as requested. My card had a 1-800 fake phone number. Everything else looked legit.
I now live in Oregun and they don’t even ask for proof anymore. Many illegal Mexicans drive with no licenses – Amerika is well on it’s way to third world ghetto status – you don’t need no stinkin’ badges. In Orygun you can be illegal and drive a stolen car with no license – no problemo – and if you got drugs – no problemo – because drugs are legal here.
BTW if you like growing pot it is legal to do so for your own use.
BTW you can also get a universal drivers license and drive anywhere in the world.
My son has a fleet of work trucks and he pays a flat fee that insures them all, for one low price. The agency that issues his insurance has a P.O Box address – it is a private individual.
‘I called my insurance company USSA’
That’s hilarious, Jack.
‘My card had a 1-800 fake phone number.’
Hell, make it a real number, connecting to a $5 a minute cam girl chat line. š
‘since I am a joker’ — Yukon Jack
Check out how some joker hijacked the gefilte fish for Passover:
https://twitter.com/JonathanTurley/status/1775971606906515846
Hi Jack,
This is supern and just what I needed to wake up to, today – love it! In my state, it wouldn’t work, though – because the mafia immediately tells the state (DMV) when your “coverage” hasn’t been renewed and then you get a threat letter demanding that you provide proof within “x” days that you have bought a policy and if you do not do this, then they cancel your vehicle’s registration and now you’re an outlaw. I could probably continue to drive without hassle for some time because I live in a rural area and there are fewer cops around. But they are around – and some have automatic plate readers. Even so, the time is coming when “obeying the law” will be a fool’s errand. That time is already at hand, arguably.
“Even so, the time is coming when āobeying the lawā will be a foolās errand. That time is already at hand, arguably.”
I agree. What is happening is Amerika is going down the drain and becoming a third world tinpot shithole. 50 million Mexicans came in the last decade or two and they know how to resist.
Here is Southern Oregon you could NOT set up a roadside fruit stand and hock strawberries and oranges – but now they are everywhere because the Mexicans persisted and the Libtard Gov. Tiny Kotex is a bleeding heart for them for votes LOL.
So now Oregon roadside fruit is a thing and the state has allowed it – which means it will never go away. The same thing happened with pot, the pot growers just kept on growing until the state decided to regulate it. Oregon also led the world with organic certified farms.
Persistent hippies forged the way. Something to learn about how to manifest your own reality.
I think you should seriously consider moving out here and experience some real freedom. When a state is overbearing as yours is, I would get the hell out now before they get big on WW3 draft.
The Libertarian “says do what you want provided you don’t harm others.” But who gets to define “harm” then? What is the Libertarian to do when others have a very low bar to what constitutes harm?
Gil,
Who gets to define “harm”? Objective reality. The facts. If I have not caused physical injury or damage to the property of another person, then I have not harmed them. “Harm” presupposes a victim, who has suffered a tangible loss. Not a possible one. Not the worry about a possible one. The only objective (and for that reason, inarguable) way to define “harm” is in term of loss/injury caused by the actions of another.
In the context of this discussion, I harm no one if I do not pay the insurance mafia. I simply avoid being harmed – by the mafia. The reply is often that I have a moral obligation to indemnify others against the possibility I might cause them harm. There are many valid objections to this. One is the presumption that I will not be responsible for harms I cause (assuming I actually cause them). This is immensely obnoxious. It presumes I’m the kind of person who leaves other people holding the bag for harms I cause. I resent the assertion, because it’s false. It’s also hypothetical – in that I haven’t caused anyone harm. Yet I am treated as if I had – and will.
Even though I have not. And that’s the key thing. I have not caused harm. Until I have, others have an obligation to leave me alone.
My position is that everyone is responsible for what they do – but not for what others worry they might do. My position is based on moral and practical considerations. I consider it obviously wrong to presume anyone has caused (or will cause) harm who has not caused harm. And I consider it dangerous to allow any such precedent to be set because it will inevitably be expanded.
For example, if it is legitimate to require that everyone who owns a motor vehicle purchase insurance in order to be allowed to operate the vehicle on public roads, then by inference it is also legitimate to require a person who carries a firearm in public to buy insurance as a condition of being allowed to carry the firearm in public. And you may agree it is legitimate.
But where does it end? The answer ought to be obvious. It ends with everything we used to have a right to do becoming a conditional privilege we’re allowed to do (maybe) under certain terms and conditions.
Some people – I call them Clovers – thinks that’s grand. I don’t.
That reminds me of when it comes to self-defense: it’s what law says it is and not what felt emotionally right at the heat of the moment. If your self-defense sees you looking at years in prison then it wasn’t self-defense but in your imagination.
Gil,
I’m not following. Granted, I’ve had a bad cold for the past several days and so my thinking may be cloudy. But perhaps you will explain how what a person feels about something has anything to do with whether a harm has been visited upon someone? I understand people (me among them) sometimes do not like what other people are doing. But “like” is subjective and my feelings about it do not constitute a harm done to me. Just the same, I have not caused you or anyone else a harm solely because your feelings are affronted in some way. Because you don’t like or worry about what I’m doing (or not doing).
I don’t give a flip, by the way, what “the law” says. That’s for people who don’t think much. I care about whether an action is right or wrong – the determination being made based on whether anyone has been harmed as a result of the action in question.
A true Libertarian is a Monarch? It’s your land, your rules and outsiders enter your land at their own risk? Libertarians romance being tried by international laws because they’re toothless? Laws that aren’t backed with credible force are mere suggestions. Hence many countries have have horrid human rights abuses but are fine if they don’t provoke war. By the same token if someone tries to accuse you of “harm” in Libertarian society what are supposed to do? Hope there can be enough social ostracism that you’ll change your ways? If not, tough?
Gil,
I’m not sure what the problem is here; whether it’s my failure to communicate or yours to comprehend. I have never said that the owner of private property has a right to harm others on his property, by dint of it being private property. That is absurd. I have said that if I have not harmed another person by my actions then I have a right not to be harmed.
Is the concept that difficult to understand?
It’s back to who defines “harm” again? Few go out of their way “harm” others. Hence if it were up to accused to define “harm” no one could be convicted. Most seem to define “self-defense” as “the other person had it coming so they deserved to get hurt and I shouldn’t face any charges.” You say you don’t want to obey some laws yet act surprised judges and juries don’t agree.
Gil,
Are you an imbecile? I truly don’t mean to be rude. But I’m cranky because I’ve got a bad cold and I just don’t have the patience for idiocy today.
You are harmed if your person or property have been damaged in some materially definable way. If you cannot adduce tangible harm then you have not been harmed – and you have no right to harm someone else. I cause no one any harm merely by failing to buy insurance (as per the context of this discussion). Your fear that I might cause harm does not justify harming me – by demanding I pay money to an insurance mafia.
Is it that goddamned hard to understand?
This sounds like a personal preference and not what will necessarily hold up in a court. It reminds of some people talking about their definition of self-defense: what they want to do in a tricky situation may earn them prison time and a criminal record instead of a hero’s parade.
I can agree, for example, I don’t get the notion of squatters’ “rights” but it has some sort of legal precedence as even old shows set in the Old West complained about squatters.
Gil,
“Personal preference” has nothing to do with whether a person has been harmed. “Harm” in the context we’ve been discussing constitutes an objective loss incurred by the actions of someone else, such as the driver of another car hitting your car. You have been harmed by him. There is a presumptive element of victimhood in relation to the concept of “harm” that must also be addressed to deal with the non sequiturs posited by such as yourself; e.g., it is true that if I shoot a home invader I have “harmed” him. But it is justified because I am acting in self defense against someone bent upon harming me. But I harm no one by – per this discussion – not handing over money to an insurance mafia. Rather, I am threatened with harm – financial loss, possible jail, etc. – if I do not hand over the money for harms I have not caused, that are entirely speculative possibilities.
It makes my teeth ache trying to explain this to you over and over and over again.
And? Some people have the problem of getting into a collision with some guy who doesn’t have insurance so the victims are left out of pocket as the crook doesn’t have means to pay for damages.
By the same token, you talk as though the harm is obvious. Yet rape has been traditionally nebulous: some Muslim countries will execute the woman, wives used to have no recourse against their husbands in West, then there’s who say rape is “forcible” hence there’s no such thing as date rape.
Gil,
” Some people have the problem of getting into a collision with some guy who doesnāt have insurance so the victims are left out of pocket as the crook doesnāt have means to pay for damages.”
God almighty. Again?
I have pointed out numerous times that this presumes harm that hasn’t in fact occurred. You might shit your pants in a public place and cause harm to others thereby; ergo, you must buy Pants Shit Insurance. Do you grasp this? Try to follow: If I haven’t caused an accident then I have not caused any damage; ergo, I am not responsible for “damages” – because there aren’t any. The fact that there might be does not justify harming me – by forcing me to pay for harms I have not caused. Do you get it? I owe you nothing until I incur a debt to you – as by causing you or your property harm. If I have not harmed you, then you owe me something people such as yourself seem utterly unable to comprehend. Which is – leave me the fuck alone.
“Rape is nebulous”?
And they ask me why I drink.
Once again Libertarians know more than everyone else regarding the law I guess.
Gil,
I am trying to communicate with you; clearly I am failing. It is not “the law” that is at issue. It is whether someone has been harmed or not. I don’t give a damn what “the law” says, as such. I care whether someone has been harmed. If so, then “the law” is right to require accountability. But if no one has been harmed, then “the law” has no business harming people who’ve not caused harm.
Are you unable to understand this? Or are you just being a troll?
‘The Law Is Dead’
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/03/ct-rossi/the-law-is-dead/
So only the “law” defines reality? A thing conjured up by people with no moral foundation? That without the threat to kill you if you disobey means nothing?
Yes, exactly.
Gil: Just like some people think that words or even silence is violence? Give me a break.
And when there’s a dispute, judges, juries and arbitrators determine harm all the time.
@ Gil
ā. . .who gets to decide harm?ā
Actually, this is a very good question, and a complex one. Nonetheless, it seems to me that you may be implying — Iām not inside your head so I have no way of knowing — that since it is impossible to determine the definition of harm 100% of the time, we must conclude that the libertarianās assertion of ālive and let liveā is invalidated and must be discarded. And, therefore, it is imperative that we continue to search for a more effective solution to the issue of “harm,” which requires thorough research and a clear definition until all uncertainty is eliminated.
This type of thinking is utopian. And as the great libertarian thinker Robert J Ringer has suggested, libertarians recognize that because weāre dealing with humans here, and their inherent nature, āutopia is not an option,ā a reference to Thomas Moreās book, Utopia, circa 1516. Us nutty libertarians understand that there is no perfect solution to most problems, so we come to rely on solutions that are morally and ethically sound, and are effective most of the time while also being compatible with human nature.
So if one seeks a Utopian society, donāt bother asking libertarians for directions.
Here’s a brief description of harm, and what isn’t. It does NOT include hurting another’s feeling’s. Only direct and obvious physical damage. Not whatever one may conjure up in their mind.
For the record Folks.. this is probably a CIA āHoney pot ā accumulation site š¤..
ep touches on too many grievances faced by ordinary middle class typesā¦
To witā¦ my bud in central FL asked me about
Checking out Puerto Rico for a potential bailout locale ā¦.
After his house sustained 14k in damage from hurricane š Ianā¦.
AND INSURANCE SENT HIM A CHECK FOR $742!!!
R Desantis said ātake it or leave it āā¦
So Iām down here getting my cherry busted on my 1st āUS Territory āā¦..to check out the.. lay of the land so to speakā¦
This place is waaaay too ādomesticated by Uncle Samā to be the āRoad Rules Frei Dominican Republic āā¦.āwho dares wins ā Libertarian type free wheeler ā!š
Texting on iPhone..so who knows what transmitsā¦
Onward through the fogā¦
Also the Ag is far more extensive in
The Dominican Republic is INCREDIBLY FERTILE AGRICULTURALLY SPEAKINGā¦
The āFull Boat āPR reconnaissance is under way with a Mitsubishi outlander sportā¦ Annoying Free Proximity’ beeper š”Includedā¦.
Half way through island circumnavigationā¦
Shit !!
So far DR Wins!!!ā¦. PR can you score the east coast back stretch?ā¦
Why??
Reciprocal CC lawā¦.US property lawā¦Si Si gringo INSURANCE!!! ..
all things consideredā¦ the place is ok ..
Oh well.. nothings perfect
Fuck ’em! Register your Bikes in another State. You have two Residencies. How is the armed Revenuer going to know?
The problem in the US (and, it seems, other English speaking Countries) is the Government shares your Private Information (including Traffic Tickets) with Private Industry. I have Friends who were shocked to find out, if one is written up for a Traffic Ticket in the US, his Insurance Company is notified.
In Mexico, the Vehicle gets the Ticket so there is no problem with one’s Insurance going up.
Germany has strict Privacy Laws and one’s Traffic Tickets are not allowed to be reported to the Insurance Company. In fact, one can purchase extra Insurance so if he has a Claim which was his fault, his Insurance Premium will not go up. Also, his Insurance Percentage Cost Rate is required to go down periodically if he has no Claims.
Being a Victim of an Unisured Motorist, I have no problem with requiring Car Insurance. I have a problem with a lying fucking Government working Hand-In-Hand with lying fucking Insurance Companies to squeeze every God Damned Penny out of me.
I hear that Doug.
I do have a problem with mandatory insurance. IN the old days, prior to mandatory insurance, you could buy uninsured motorists coverage. The rate was comporable to what exists today.
mandatory insurance has allowed the insurance companies to price fix and engage in external political activity. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is one of the largest political lobbies in the United States. Their “work” in collision testing is as well known as their lobbying the National Highway Traffic Safety administration for ever stricter Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. It is the latest round of FMVSS affecting side impact and rollover collisions that have made cars, crossovers and trucks homogeneous in design. They are the reasons for ever growing mandates. The hapless and retarded auto industry works hand in hand with the government as well, waiting to polish the knob of NHTSA.
I’m against paying any premiums to the current criminals, however, I do at this point.
Regarding illegals, they do get away with causing harm on the highways with no repercussions. I dislike that they get away with it and we as taxpaying citizens do not. Or do I? Im glad someone can drive around without a care. It’s better than nobody being able to do it. I am just pissed that anyone has to pay into this shit system.
Hi Doug,
I agree with all you’ve said, but I despise being presumed an irresponsible cretin. I’m not. I pay my debts. I take care of what I’m responsible for and always have. It really gets my back up to be told I must buy insurance because someone else worries I might not pay for damages I cause. Which I have not actually caused. And which – if I did – I’d take care of – as I always have when it comes to such things. I may be irritable. I may be antisocial. But I pay my way and pay for the things I break. That ought to be enough.
It’s enough to make one irritable and antisocial, when “society” is constantly attacking you, using the force of the state to do so. I don’t know how, but we have to find a way to disconnect the two,
I just recently finished reading a book not too long ago (Girl With No Name). The girl was not-quite 5 when she was kidnaped from her front yard, and dumped into a jungle (Columbia). She spent (they can only guess based on hair growth) approximately 5 years in the jungle, growing completely feral, and growing up with a family of monkeys she came across-after wandering lost in the jungle. After people found her years later (a man/woman couple), I concluded she was better off with the monkeys, and the author stated she missed them terribly after encountering people. The monkeys were more of a family, and were far nicer than people, which I thought was sad. Those of us who avoid people unless we have to work with them, and or who only need a few close friends, are seen as “anti-social”. Hell, maybe we just want to be left alone. Solitude does not equal depression or being lonely. Many of us often have very good reasons for being that way. The others will simply not understand, do not care to understand, and will demonize us by attaching toxic labels to us, not realizing they are projecting instead of prophesying.
ā Solitude does not equal depression or being lonely ā
I have a few close friends and The Commander (wife) thatās it. My widower buddy has been on Wife Quest for about 8 years – I donāt get it myself. I frankly prefer alone time & shudder and recoil at the idea of finding another mate if I end up a widower. Nope, Iāve never been lonely but different strokes for others. My daughter is convinced Iām somewhere on the Aspergerās syndrome scale she may be correct.
I get the eye roll from both – āI have me, why would I need anyone else?ā
Well, there are those that are terrified to be alone. So much so, that they are willing to be with anyone-and I mean anyone-to avoid being by themselves. For if they were by themselves, they might have to hear themselves think. And for some, that would mean having to actually sit down and deal with their own crap that they have been too busy running from their whole life. For some, it would terrify the living hell out of them if they had to be alone in a room somewhere for any length of time. That is why those who are at peace with being alone have generally dealt with their sh**, made peace with it, got rid of a lot of it, and do not mind the alone-ness. I dealt with the demons from my past. The ones hurling labels my way? No, they are still running.
I am with you, Sparkey. I have the hubby, the kiddos, my parents, and my sisters. If someone asked me who is your best friend the answer would be hubby. He is funny, smart, can fix anything, always has a full wallet, and comes with some tantalizing parts. Why do I need a bunch of girl friends?
I like my privacy and am at peace hanging out with myself. I actually take myself out to lunch a lot. I love trying new restaurants so I go and people watch or read. It is my quiet time. I am not a person who feels awkward in silence or feels a conversation has to continually be on going. I also donāt need to surround myself with people. I donāt like most of them.
Agree with that Sparkey,
Nirvana for me is sitting in a comfy chair reading a good book with a cat on my lap, classical music on the stereo, and a glass of wine on the side table. Peace and solitude is great.
Used to be here in WA you werenāt required to carry cycle insurance. That loose thread got sewn back down of course, same rules as cars & trucks now.
I see more and more expired license tags, I joined the scofflaws last year with the bike. I also got a collector plate for the truck no more yearly tags for it. Expired tags no longer a primary offense and the cops around here have given up on traffic enforcement anyway. Too much political heat from the gimmigrants advocacy groups so the fuzz has really backed off.
Not much here makes any sense. To ālegally ā ride a motorcycle you have to get a driver license endorsement via passing a riding skills test. Your risk to others is minimal on a bike – yet any cataract riddled cognitive impaired Jerry Attrick can go buy a class A motor home, no endorsement required, and head on down the highway. Out on the Harley I stay well clear of them.
“Your mask.”
“Your vaccine.”
“Your coverage.”
In 2000 after a dispute with USAA Casualty and Insurance, I dropped coverage and went with “Progressive” since they offered me a low rate over the phone. When I got my bill, it was 3x what I was expecting to pay. I thought at the time they were billing quarterly. No. They billed me monthly because they claimed that I didn’t disclose the three tickets that were on my record at the time. (I did). After locating another insurance company, I canceled them as well.
As a result, they ratted me out to the state of North Carolina. I found it unbelievable that they were able to do that. In any case, I had to trot over to the DMV, wait in line and get them to accept the fact that I already had insurance on the day in question. After about 1 hour spent there, I was in “compliance.”
It was at that point that I fully understood that insurance and government is a life- threatening mafia.
I have had State Farm insurance for house and vehicles for probably 20 years now. I have been tempted to send a letter demanding the total dollar amount I’ve paid in over those 20 years, compared to the total amount that they’ve paid out.
As an experiment, I drove around for several years without renewing my tag on my daily driver Dodge Stratus. Never hassled.
Then I finally renewed it when my daughter turned 16 and started using it. Didn’t want her to get hassled.
When I retire, I might do it again. Maybe even drive without a plate.
And insurance… hah! Nope.
In CA, if my insurance ever lapses, I get a letter from the state that my registration will be suspended in 30 days. That happened once when the insurance company made a typo in my VIN number when updating something. It doesn’t matter that the registration was paid up for a year, and included property tax.
It gets better, though. I need to pay for an uninsured motorist policy because a lot of people from various South American countries drive around here without insurance. They drive on expired registrations, often without licenses. I can’t do that, because for me, driving without a license is a crime which would cause all kinds of legal trouble that’s more onerous to deal with than paying all this protection money. For them, if they’re here illegally, there are no repercussions. I face jail time.
You may also have read that insurance companies are leaving CA in droves. I’m no fan of the mafia, however, the mafia isn’t allowed to price risk into your policy here, so if you have a house in the mountains, like I do, nobody will insure you. I am, however, required to have insurance by the bank holding my mortgage, so my only choice is the state run FAIR plan. The FAIR plan isn’t subject to the same rules as private insurance and costs several times more.
My car insurance has been going up 20-30% per years, despite driving old cars, because in CA, your insurance is based on the prices and repair costs of cars in your area, they’re not allowed to charge you for your specific cars, so as my neighbors by Lucids and Rivians, my insurance goes up to cover them.
Has your vehicle insurance increased because of the EV push?
Yes. CA defines “zones” for insurance rates, and all rates within a zone are computed the same way, based on the average car. As the average gets more expensive to fix, the prices go up for people with below-average cars.
It’s not directly because of the EV push, but combined with insurance regulation, indirectly.
OL,
If you have a sufficiently old and inexpensive car, couldn’t you simply go with liability only coverage? Liability only covers damage you cause someone else; it doesn’t cover repairs. Therefore, you’d be exempted from having to pay for repairs to your neighbors’ Rivians and Teslas, no?
The Kentucky Farm Bureau mafia recently informed me that my vehicle insurance would be going up another $150/6 months. So, I decided it was time to shop around. I received a rude awakening, though. Turns out that I CAN’T switch insurance since my house has fuses and not breakers. Doesn’t matter that I have had an electrician look at it and say there isn’t any need at all to put in breakers, no insurance company will even consider writing a policy! And I would lose my vehicle “discount” if I just dropped vehicles from KFB. Nice lady said that everyone is drastically raising vehicle insurance premiums anyway, so I probably couldn’t save much if I did switch.
The three biggest grifts used against us are Banking, law, and insurance. These three grifts make our untenable political situation possible. Insurance is the weak sister among them. Easy to destroy if enough people pulled the pin, starting with no auto insurance, what would they do? They cant lock us all up. Problem is lots of good Germans still support this type of forced transaction. I’d even bet there are a few on EPAutos who’d say we cant do that. ‘What if I had an accident?’ ‘But, but, Muh protection.’
I’ve read where some companies now want to cherry pick, dumping certain lines of insurance (mostly homeowners) to help their bottom line. Thats outrageous. How about doing a better job with the actuarial data. Most of these companies spread the risk evenly, which is bullshit. Why should responsible people who never had a claim pay the same as someone who burned down their house down, or filed multiple claims? Never mind people who were loyal customers for decades with no claims now having no viable options to replace coverage on their houses. If a company pulls this crap with their homeowner/fire coverage they shouldn’t be able to do any other business in that state, ever again until they reform.
As you say Eric, we cant comply our way out of this, We also cant vote or complain our way out. Rolling dirty, as kids used to say is the only way. Assuming we could get a critical mass of people to do it. Its a start. You don’t think any of these Illegal Aliens have car insurance, do you?
We don’t need a majority of people to revolt; a determined minority is all that’s needed. Look at Bolshevik Russia. What % of people were Bolsheviks committed to The Cause? Perhaps 10% at most?
An area farmer was killed in an automobile accident 44 years ago. The estate was taxed by the IRS, the family of the farmer had to sue the insurance company of the driver who caused the accident to settle the amount owed to the IRS.
The IRS sends you a bill when you die in an auto accident.
You might be piloting a cargo ship and it hits a bridge, you need Lloyd’s of London then. It wasn’t me, the bridge is at fault for being there.
I hope the Jews have money to help out the Palestinians after all of the damage they have done. Always someone else’s fault, you’re the victim, still your fault. You will pay, a pound of flesh is extracted at times too.
100 million drivers/car owners that pay 250 dollars per month for auto insurance are paying 25 billion dollars per month in premiums.
Times 12 months, 300 billion dollars for the insurance providers just for full coverage auto insurance. Then there is your dwelling and your health, have to insure those.
You’re in good hands with Allstate.
Your money is gone, not in your hands anymore, theirs.
When you have 30,000 plus highway deaths each year, insuring automobiles that are the cause of accidents is what you do. Never anybody’s fault, just yours.
A high school classmate had a job that required road travel. One night he dreamed that he was in a whiteout on the highway. He purchased a 250,000 life insurance policy. Two weeks later he was killed in an auto accident. The year was 1976 IIRC.
Apparently Virginia allows self-insurance and surety bonds. Maryland allows surety bonds but not self-insurance. I don’t know the details but it looks like you have to have a whole lot of cash in a pile that you can’t touch for self-insurance — if the amount goes below the minimum then you “policy” has lapsed and then your uninsured. Surety bonds have a guarantor but they want you to *spend* a percentage of the total coverage amount which varies state by state. Again, I don’t know the details.
I guess they say that people with too many tickets, DUI(s), or more than 25 vehicles have to do something like that. Sounds like the insurance mafia has made sure these alternatives are mostly unreachable for most people.
https://www.policygenius.com/auto-insurance/can-you-use-a-surety-bond-for-auto-insurance/
https://www.policygenius.com/auto-insurance/what-is-self-insured-car-insurance/
Hi XM,
I deeply resent being forced to buy insurance – on principle. But it’s especially galling with regard to the bikes I own, which are occasional-use-only. I don’t ride any of them more than 1,000 miles annually and they all sit in the garage from (roughly) late November through right about now, so about half the year. Yet I must maintain “coverage” all year long, even though there is literally almost no risk of me causing anyone else harm for roughly half the year.
And the fact is I haven’t caused anyone any harm.
I bristle at the arbitrariness of it. How many actions might result in harm caused to someone else? The list is almost literally endless. Yet no one is made to buy – as an example – fist insurance, on the theory that the owner of the fist might punch some innocent person in the mouth and cause him to lose his teefus.
Why not?
And, of course, many of the people who think it’s legitimate to force people to buy car/bike insurance fail to see that – having accepted the principle underlying it – there is no reason why they couldn’t be forced to buy other forms of insurance, too. (The gun-grabbers do realize this and it is why they want to require people who own guns to buy insurance, which of course will be exorbitantly expensive and thus serve to get people to give up their guns.)
Big corporations can self insure….maybe the super rich too?….
Big corporations can self insure…they are classified as financially responsible….if it is a trucking company for example….they don’t get insurance like the poor slaves do…if there is an accident they just pay cash to cover the costs/liability…it is probably cheaper in the long run….then paying for insurance….
Rich folks actually only own LLCs. The LLCs own everything. Silo up all their assets so when their spoiled brat kid wrecks into someone the ambulance chasers can’t go after the family wealth, only whatever the LLC has.
Also makes it nice for real estate transactions since your name won’t be associated with property. I see it all the in the Aspen paper, 123 Mainstreet LLC selling property to 123 Aspendream, LLC.
Some people put all their assets in a trust fund, then if they are sued, they have nothing.
LLC’s
The slave owners own and control the world through limited companies….all law is corporate law……
Politicians register their name as a limited company……
By registering your name as a Limited company…like John Smith Ltd. it becomes an expressed company with you as the director….then you leave the company dormant…you can also trademark the name….take back control…..
A citizen…like John Smith…..is an implied company of a parent company…the country….like Japan Inc…all countries are registered as limited companies.
This is an informative video…….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPA0eGCQgPE
100% Off Topic: Biden DOE Slaps Energy Efficiency Regulations On Key Power Grid Components
Can the smart EE types here ‘splain the ramifications of yet another federal fiat? One ZH commenter said if it was good for the utility providers, they’d have already one it.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/biden-doe-slaps-energy-efficiency-regulations-key-power-grid-components
The stick is what’s known as “SR-22” insurance. It’s not insurance per se, it’s an add-on that costs thousands of dollars per year. Most people get it after a DUI or getting caught without insurance. Once you’re convicted you have to beg for your driving privileges back, and SR-22 is often a requirement. For whatever reason, most carriers won’t touch it so it’s one of those businesses that prey on the poor and weak, like bail bondsmen and Korean liquor stores in Watts. But because it’s insurance, and usually only necessary because someone broke the law, there’s no lobby shouting how it’s unfair to black and brown people (even though I imagine they’re the usual buyers).
Where’s all our liberal voices of the poor (Bernie? Pocahontas?) complaining about this? Oh, that’s right, Bill Clinton signed the law turning a 0.08 BAC into a DUI, so that means it’s OK. Besides, putting the poor on bicycles means more room for the motorcade.
“We must tell it to go to Hell.”
The list of those who need to go to hell and/or go fuck themselves has become nearly overwhelming.
Government enablers and their patrons –pharmaceuticals, insurance mafia, israeli lobby, climate hoaxers, ambulance chasers, etc.
Amen, Mike –
As you can probably tell, I’m cranky today. I tire of these people. It’s no longer an occasional annoyance, here and there. It is becoming constant – and aggressive. I’ve damned near had my fill of it.
And of them.
When I get that same tiring feeling, I think about when I finally leave this mortal coil and the first thing I will rejoice in is that I will never have to deal with the Caesars of this world or pay a bill or use Caesar’s money ever again. Another plus is that where I hope I am going there will be no more lies or lying. Truly Heaven.
Yup. This life is a test. It’s only a test… The demons who roam this earth are going to throw the kitchen sink at you to try to turn you into a monster.
I’ve been given a glimpse of what’s in store for me if I live my life right. Lord give me the strength to slay my enemies with words, not weapons.
Romley Stewart with his unlicensed and unregistered motorcycle and the legal issues….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFpdKzLGbT0
Hi Anon,
I applaud the sentiment expressed by this man. The catch – the thing they use to ensnare us – is that they have the power to take things away from us. Such as our car (or bike) if an armed government worker catches us on “public” roads without insurance. The vehicle can be seized/impounded and ourselves arrested. But maybe the time is at hand or almost here for us to be willing to risk losing things, in order to recover things even more important. If enough of us just refused to play the game, then the game would end. Prohibition is good example of the way this can work. But it will take a significant portion of the population – probably about 30 percent – to make this work.
The how to get that going is the point that bedevils me.
Now ya got me to thinking about what ‘really’ ended Prohibition.
….Wanted to post a link about that, but I got things to do.
Hi Eric
Yes…. Romley is a brave one…..
He says now he has backed off talking about the control group because….
….. most of the people…slaves… today depend on the existence of this control group…foreign fraud occupation. As the elite control group say, they are the useful idiots, being the most dangerous of all people.
In all societies, the stupid are the most dangerous. The stupid are the ones that became dependent on the foreign occupation slave owners… without question and in order to maintain their beneficial standing within such a foreign criminal slave owner system, they, the stupid, will defend it to their death because they know nothing else, they will never survive without it.
In the past he made a number of videos….
https://www.youtube.com/@JustinianDeception/videos
Z Plates, Unregulated License Plates
I wouldn’t recommend this….but…this is very interesting….
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=b43qTmBiCSw
David Wynn Miller…a strange story….
He was a high level freemason so knew a lot of things….he was 1st Nation…indigenous so was untouchable compared to white boy….
They say he died of a heart attack….but he looked young and healthy….
He was a high level freemason….but talked too much about the system?…….
https://yewtu.be/channel/UCIQv2kvxhZD5SzoL7BbDGUQ?sort_by=popular
These guys who think they can say some secret incantation and the government will leave them alone… THE GOVERNMENT IS FORCE. Nothing more. Incantations of some obscure law are not going to get the government to point their guns in another direction. In fact, they will focus more of their unlimited resources on you!
Right…..
A lot of the stuff he talked about was interesting…on an intellectual level…but had no real practical value to the average slave….probably ignorance is bliss…..knowing nothing…the preferred state the slave owners want the slaves to be in….
‘those who are coerced into doing business with the mafia’ — eric
Bend over, here it comes again:
‘Thursday morning, the Department of Energy said that new distribution transformer regulations would help accelerate the green agenda as part of the administration’s “commitment to tackling the climate crisis.”
‘Energy efficiency gains will be achieved with 75% of the transformers on the market being manufactured using grain-oriented electrical steel (GOES) and another 25% being manufactured with amorphous alloy, a lesser-used electric steel core material. Manufacturers will be given five years to ensure total compliance with the regulations.
‘GOES accounts for more than 95% of the domestic distribution transformer market. Amorphous steel relies on foreign materials, while there’s just one small producer in the US.’
https://tinyurl.com/5n7e68f3
“Biden’s” red guards (idiot bitch Jenny Granholm, in this case) are going hog wild in a last-ditch bid to Stalinize the economy before getting booted from office. It is to laugh — except the joke’s on us. š
The easy efficiency gains are done. Now they need to start removing bone.
They’re so addicted to wringing every last watt out of the system that they ignore the obvious elephant in the room, increasing generating capacity. Make it impossible to build new baseload power, add a bunch of uncertainty into the grid in the form of weather dependent supply. Watch the spot prices swing wildly with demand. Then blame the “wasteful” user for the shortfall.
Genius in a sick James Bond villain sort of way.
My parent’s house, built around 1960, has no insulation in the walls, and a few inches of fiberglass batt in the attic. They pay hundreds of dollars a month for gas heat. My house was built in the late ’90s. It has plenty of insulation in the walls and attic. I pay less than $100/month for heat, although I keep the house cool and have a reasonably efficient boiler. Both houses are hot water gas baseboard, mine is smaller and in a state with much lower rates, but I’m sure the insulation adds a lot of savings too.
Thing is, that’s about all you’ll get, even with a “high efficiency” boiler. The difference between a 94% efficiency boiler such as mine and a 98% one is probably about $5/month, but the up front cost is almost double. Worse is the heat pump, which has a massive upfront cost and costly repairs should they be necessary (not for the average home gamers for sure), and uses expensive electricity instead of cheap gas. Oh but it’s darned efficient!
So do they plan on replacing all the existing transformers as well? Couldnāt really tell from reading the article. Good luck getting enough of them, when I retired most of the pole top transformers came from S. Korea, Hyundai Industries I think. After a major storm there were very few left to replace the ones that came crashing down onto the street, the ones that werenāt too badly damaged were sent out for repair but they always had trouble keeping enough in stock.
Love how our overlords think like King Canute they can make stuff happen by decree.
As RK mentioned what good is it having maximum efficiency if there isnāt enough base load generation to feed all those transformers; windmills and solar panels arenāt going to cut it so itās obvious their intent is to cripple the economy for the average serf.
‘Motorcycles? What motorcycles? I sold those months ago.’ — eric
Yeah … just like that tragic boating accident, where muh gold bars sank to the bottom of Lake Mead. š
Vendors offer ‘novelty’ motorcycle plates which look quite realistic:
https://tinyurl.com/39v8bnfy
Though it’s probably felonious, a scofflaw could order one with the legitimate plate number of another ‘compliant’ motorcycle — even a police motorcycle, if so inclined.
Unfortunately, there’s no such thing as a ‘farm motorcycle.’
On my bike I just go with the lowest coverage possible. No theft or collision. It’s still a rip off.
Hi Landru,
I do too and I increase the deductible to some astronomical amount. Basically, I use insurance as “catastrophic” events only. When our basement flooded due to the sump pump breaking in the middle of the night hubby and I did not make a call to insurance. One, it was unlikely, they were going to cover it, but I didn’t even want it registered. Hubby and I took the day off work and tore out the floors and drywall bought a few dehumidifiers and replaced everything ourselves over a matter of months.
I see the amounts that some of my clients pay for homeowner’s insurance…thousands of dollars annually just for “prevention”. It is ridiculous.
Two good moves, keep it to yourselves and then do the work yourself. Most likely a better end result than the non handy homeowner who turns it over to insurance and their recommended contractor. That contractor under the gun for staying inside the allowed $$ amount rather than doing the best job.
Wish your HVAC hubby was here in Central WA. The neighbors AC and gas furnace replacement last year went fine and theyāre happy with the equipment. I looked over the installation quality it was fine so I used the same outfit and equipment. Ha! Well, lots of pickups post install. Gas line sediment trap installed wrong (straight no 90 bend) ran the 3ā white exhaust stack straight up thru the roof right where Iād see it from the front entry, insulation seams coming apart, whistle at an air leak base of furnace, blower out of balance, ac unit outside not leveled. All fixed and after tearing apart the new furnace came to the same conclusion re: the blower is out of balance. The shake felt by hand on the case didnāt convince them. Weāre nearing amateur hour for what used to be professional contracting. Gee Sparkey what do you expect for $18650?
Oh, man, Sparkey, that is a brutal price! I hope you at least got a 5 ton furnace installed for that cost….and it should have been a workable one. The techs sound like apprentices. That is pretty shoddy workmanship. Did something get sucked up into the blower or was it actually installed that way? It also sounds like they did not seal anything either.
My hubby actually works on commercial equipment, mainly restaurants. Some HVAC, a lot of refrigeration (ice machines, walk ins, etc.). He will do repairs/installs for friends and neighbors, but residential is pretty brutal especially when dealing with attics and crawl spaces (with all kinds of nature’s furry and not furry creatures). š
I am sorry to hear about your experience. It sounds like you are in for a myriad of issues. Hopefully, they will warranty their work and repair it the way it should have been rightfully installed.
The good: the electrical crew were top notch, all new air conditioner power disconnect box outside with added surge suppressor, new supply box on the furnace inside with clean wire conduit routing, much better than the work from 2004. The bad: mixed feelings on the crew, all hard working they were here about 11 hours morning to after dark last month but they need supervision or a work task list of doās and donāts. I didnāt see the exhaust stack till the following day when I went out for the mail. I commented on the shaky shake when they first lit off the furnace but no techs that day just the install crew. Yesterday the tech guy pulled out the blower assy no debris no loose mounts.
Long days of hard awkward work Iāve been there/done that years ago installing material handling equipment so Iām empathetic to some point.
The ugly: that @#*&$ exhaust pipe that they moved the next week to the rear side of the roof pitch where I donāt see it – no argument which suprised me.
Here in WA contractors pay thru the nose for L&I insurance. Add in the B&O (business and occupation) tax on GROSS receipts not profit and all the environmental rules for handling a/c gasses the overhead $$$ is eye watering. Plus as my daughter calls it, āFUā pricing since the trades are swamped with work there are no bargains. My system would have been around $21,000 without the Daikin $1400 incentive and an āearly birdā $1000 discount from the contractor. I lucked out on timing since weāre just past heating season and not into a/c quite yet.
Hear, hear! And good luck, Eric.