Did you know you can drive a new car without a key? More finely, without the fob that has replaced the key you used to use to unlock the door and start the engine?
The fob not only makes it possible. It makes it easy.
But is this good?
Here’s a story that might help you decide.
Yesterday, the press fleet management company that handles the deliveries – and pick-ups – of the new cars I test drive came to pick up the ’25 Mini Cooper I recently wrote about (here, if interested) and dropped off a ’25 Nissan Murano. About 30 minutes after the Murano was dropped off, I jumped in it to drive down to the gym. I found the engine was running, which can sometimes happen with new cars because they all have automatic stop-start (ASS) “technology” now and so when you stop the car – because you’re parking it – the engine will automatically shut off before you push the button to turn it off. Then you push the button to turn it off – out of habit, because that’s what we’re used to doing when we’re parking and getting ready to leave the car – and the engine comes back on.
But you don’t notice it, get out and leave the car with the engine running.
I figured that’s what happened. In his haste to park/leave the Murano, the delivery driver didn’t notice the engine had come back on when he pushed the button to turn it off. The engines in new cars are generally very quiet, so it’s easy to not notice it’s still on when you thought you just shut it off.
Anyhow, that’s what I figured. I grabbed the fob the delivery driver had left on top of the center console, put it in my pocket and headed down to the gym. When I got there, I pushed the button to shut the Murano’s engine off and made sure it was off – because I didn’t want to find an empty parking spot after my workout.
So the Murano was still parked where I’d left it when I finished working out. I got in, pushed the button – but the engine wouldn’t start! The dash displayed a message to place the fob near the button – in order to close the transmitting distance in the event the battery in the fob was weak. That’s something else that sometimes happens with fobs.
This did nothing. I looked at the fob – but not closely enough. It looked like it had been through the wash; it was scratched and some of the silver coating had rubbed off. Odd, given that this is a brand-new car (and so, presumably, a brand-new fob).
Well, maybe it had been through the wash – and maybe the battery was dead. So I got my lifting buddy Jeff to give me a ride down to the car parts place that’s around the corner to get a new battery. It made no difference. Then I thought to try the field expedient of removing the emergency key from the fob.
Some fobs have these for just such emergencies. You pop them out of the fob and then find the hidden slot (it’s sometimes under a trim cover near the floor shifter) that allows you to insert the emergency key and start the engine that way in the event of Fob Failure.
No dice, either – because the 2025 Murano apparently does not have an emergency physical key or a slot to put it in.
Defeat sinking in, I called the press fleet management company, figuring the Murano or its fob had glitched and the no-start Nissan would need to be towed. I snapped some pics of what I was seeing – the message in the Murano’s main gauge cluster plus a close-up shot of me holding the fob near the button – when at last I saw something.
More finely, something finally registered.
The fob I was trying to use to start the Nissan had a Hyundai badge. Awareness dawned. The driver had inadvertently left the fob for his personal Hyundai in the Nissan press vehicle and left the Nissan’s engine running, the latter causing me to assume the fob I put in my pocket was for the Nissan when I jumped in to drive the thing down to the gym.
Of course, the Hyundai fob could not be used to start the Murano’s engine anymore than holding a rock near the start button would have done the trick. So the driver who’d left the wrong fob had to drive three hours back to where I was stuck with the parked Murano to give me the right fob (and get his fob back).
It wasn’t a huge big deal; I ended up doing some shopping to burn off the hours waiting – but it also got me thinking. About whether these fobs are worth the “convenience.” Put another way, was it really such an inconvenience to insert a key into an ignition switch and turn it to start the engine? As opposed to keeping a fob in your pocket and pushing a “start” button? The key never needs a battery and can be inadvertently run through the wash without harming it. A new one can be made for $10. Have you priced what it costs to replace a fob? 
Then there’s the law of unintended – and compounding – consequences.
It is difficult – unless you’re senile – to forget to turn off the engine in a car without ASS that has an ignition key rather than a start button. Because for one the engine will be obviously still running when you put the transmission in Park and for another, you can’t take your keys with you unless you turn the engine off by turning the key to do that, in order to remove the key from the lock so you can put the key in your pocket (or purse).
And it is impossible for someone to drive away in your car without the key to start the engine – unless they hot-wire it.
But when you have a fob – and ASS – it is easy to lose track of whether you turned the engine off or the ASS turned it off. And it is easy to take (or leave) the wrong fob with you, assuming it’s the right one because the engine’s on when you get in the thing. It is easy to see how this could happen in a household with multiple fob-start cars equipped with ASS rather than cars that are started with keys and only start if someone turns the key in the ignition lock.
Maybe having keys rather than fobs – and engines that only shut off when you shut them off – wasn’t such a bad thing after all.
. . .
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I try to avoid ragging on the cars on review articles for Eric’s job, so I’ll do so here: It’s called a MORON! It’s funny that it’s not idiot proof.
You left off a zero when pricing a replacement key for anything made in the last 20+ years!
Push Button Start has a huge advantage over a key ignition… if you lost your right arm.
Welp, here I am. “Late to the party”, as usual. lol But yeah, yet another make-work “solution” to a NON-EXISTENT problem, which ends up creating REAL problems. And not to mention, more moolah for the dealers, since the fobs (and the programming device/procedure/etc.) are ALL proprietary. Whenever tried-and-true technology has to be “quietly supplanted” (because there was not a SINGLE demand for its replacement, as far as I can remember), there is ALWAYS a malicious intent.
And that acronym for “auto-stop-start” was DEFINITELY NOT a coincidence!
My main 3 vehicles all have push button starts. Which is all about less parts for the assembly plants saving money. Less parts, less money. My hunch is we will never see key start in new vehicles again. I’m waiting for WiFi brakes to cut down on parts. Throttle by wire has been around on cars, trucks and motorcycles less parts.
RE: “I’m waiting for WiFi brakes to cut down on parts.”
Man, the jokes just keep writing themselves.? Don’t they?
…That sinking feeling when there’s a hole in the brake line, you mash the pedal to the floor, the pedal stays there, nothing happens, you’re going downhill, maybe pulling a heavy trailer, you mash the brake pedal again, nothing happens, you say, “Oh Shit!”.
Yeah, that’s what I thought of when you wrote, “WiFi brakes” and, “to cut down on parts”. I heard it all in an, ‘Idiocracy’ accent. [Not you saying it that way. Some developer, or advertiser, or some hyped up on espresso buyer of said car telling you how good it is.]
I was arguing this same point — that keys were foolproof, fobs are not — on the Corvette Forum ten years ago. The comebacks in defense of the electronic gadgetry were lame at best. I’ve had keys that were so worn they almost looked smooth, yet they still worked (had a lot of keys; I’ll be 75 this summer).
In 2021 my ’07 Vette would not start three times over a period of some months, there was some glitch somewhere. Three times to the Chevy dealer, and then once to a super-geek friend and mechanic. Nobody could duplicate the problem so it remains a mystery still today. It’s been flawless for three seasons now but so what? It could glitch out any time.
ERIC: I wish you could make your podcasts downloadable. I would probably listen to most or all of them; as it is now I probably only grab one per month. I thought the whole idea of podcasts, 25 or so years ago when they came out, was so that you could “take it with you,” and listen to it anywhere at one’s convenience.
Preach it, Bruce!
I have never had an old-school key “glitch.” It is not possible and so it doesn’t happen. What is the great advantage of replacing a simple, effective and inexpensive key with a complicated, glitch-prone and expensive fob? So that all one has to do is push the “start” button? As opposed to turning a key? If this is not a metric of a dying culture I do not know what is.
On the podcasts: I am working the problem!
“So that all one has to do is push the “start” button?”
And mash the brake pedal. Because, “saaaaaaafety”. But hey, at least your freshly manicured nails aren’t broken! lol
THANKS for working on the podcasts. That would be great!
I bought a ’62 Chevy II back in the ’60s, a junker, before I could afford a nice car. As it turns out, the previous owner was a half-century ahead of his time.
There was a hardware-store toggle switch under the dash, above my right knee, that turned the current on to the coil, and huge red Emergency Stop
button where the ignition switch normally was in the dash, that activated the starting circuit. Never glitched out once!
Bruce
ERIC: I remember one of my criticisms of the push-button ignition that I’d posted on the Corvette Forum.
From memory: “If you’re too weak to turn a key, maybe you should be in a nursing home instead of driving a 400+ h.p. sports car.”
Another issue from here: I’ve posted here for several years, but very rarely because I’ve never been notified even once via email that someone replied to my post (I have that option checked) so my post, and the entire page, gets forgotten about. 🙁
My friend and I borrowed his dad’s push button start pickup truck back about 1977 .
My friend and I went and got in the truck and I said where’s the key ? My friend said there is no key . I could find no way to start the truck .I had to go back inside to ask his dad how to start the truck . His dad said just push the button . I asked his dad where is the button ! ? !
The button was on the right of the gas pedal in the floorboard , it was a 1953 Chevy truck .
My friend was clueless because he could not drive a straight shift and had never drove his dad’s truck but since I had drove a three on a tree many times that put me behind the wheel looking for clues to start a 1953 Chevy truck , LOL .
I got flummoxed by one of those too. They had a lot of issues with electrical shorts and mistakes with the hi/lo headlight beam switch too. Probably why they stopped that particular system.
What’s old is new again. Buddy’s ‘50 Ford also push button start, nice chrome button on the dash. You did need a key to turn on the ignition, then the button engaged the starter. Key lock was so worn he found a Ford key in a parking lot worked easily in his ‘50.
Momsie’s ‘58 Buick even easier – key in and on, then gently push the gas pedal which engaged the starter. Starter stopped by a vacuum switch.
I keep my FOB in my pocket and itz on a chain attached to my belt loop.
I always turn the ASS off as soon as I start the car. One time after I parked the car in the garage I forgot to turn the engine off. The buzzer started ringing. This could be dangerous if your garage is attached to the house. The cars are so quit itz difficult ti tell if the engine is running,
Can I make an OT rant regarding ASS? Appropriate acronym BTW. My ’17 MB Metris has a fob, thankfully it must be inserted into a receptacle and turned like a real key and has a real key as well. All good there.
On start up from the second day I have defeated ASS with the provided button. Ass is a useless compliance “feature”. How much fuel could I possibly be saving by my engine shutting off while sitting at a light. At what cost in starters, batteries and ring gears.
Eventually I noticed it no longer necessary to disable ASS. First thought was the thing gave up in defeat. When checking codes one time there was a code for some silly compliance oil pressure reducing valve that was active at idle. Apparently there to save another immeasurable amount of fuel.
Why in hell do I want my oil pressure low? I always thought that to be bad. Anyway, one compliance “feature” defeated by another.
Thanks for the indulgence.
The 2018 Grand Cherokee has the off button for A S S too. Problem is, it resets for each restart. You can buy an aftermarket gizmo to keep resetting to off on each start, $200 if I recall. The V6 has the dual oil pressure also, switches at about 3k RPM
At first I thought the article would be about what happens when one is in a hurry, jumps in the fobboidmobile and tries to start the fobboidmobile and nothing happens but a cryptic message on the (fake) instrument panel saying something to the effect that: “identity incorrect”. This happens apparently when one has two (2) fobbs and lets then stay close together when not in use. Seems to happen a lot to Nissans. Nissan “dealership” can’t figure it out either, but charges arm & leg anyway, and “suggests” a new fobb… $$$…. such a deal!
In the “for what it’s worth” category, I seem to recall that “keyless” cars were supposed to put an end to “security” problems for people that didn’t pay attention to where they parked their cars, and paid even less attention when returning to said car, like at night, and fumbled all over the place for the keys, totally engrossed in fumbling and totally unaware of the parasite approaching for a “score”. One more not so well thought out Joan Claybrookism.
My first thought, Nike, when I read your comment, is that nowadays, all cars look the same: Same three or four colours, which he touched up on recently. No snazzy, stand-out looking vehicles. They all look nearly the same in that regards. If one does not pay attention to where they are parked, and then are fumbling for a key fob, I would say they are in a lot of trouble. And, like with my friend, better hope your key fob opens up the right vehicle! Sigh, I miss the “one key for the ignition, one key for the trunk” days. You could never screw up when the one end was square, and the other round.
My lovely AND smart wife has that “jellybean” problem occasionally as well; a black 2012 ES350…….. I think you know exactly what I’m saying.. ;-))))))
Wonder whether tanks and armored personnel carriers have stupid fobs? Anyhow, it’s not gonna help this predicament:
‘According to DeepStateMAP.live, run by Ukrainian military bloggers, their country’s forces in Kursk are nearly cleaved in two, with roughly three-quarters of Ukraine’s forces in Russia almost entirely surrounded on Friday. Their last connection between the two forces was a kilometer long and under 500 meters wide at its thinnest section.
Black Bird Group military analyst Pasi Paroinen summed up the state of affairs for Reuters:
“The situation [for Ukraine in Kursk] is very bad. Now there is not much left until Ukrainian forces will either be encircled or forced to withdraw. And withdrawal would mean running a dangerous gauntlet, where the forces would be constantly threatened by Russian drones and artillery.”
https://tinyurl.com/y4sjf2cj
“We remain fully committed to Ukraine’s victory,” Secretary of State Antony Blinken said in Kyiv on Sep 11, 2024. F*cktard.
You could easily earn $500 from this even if you have never worked online.
Kindly check it out on the relevant website. I said this first. Assess your abilities, interests, and pastimes first. Find out what you have a passion for or abilities that you can sell. click on profile
You could easily earn $500 from this even if you have never worked online.
Kindly check it out on the relevant website. I said this first. Assess your abilities, interests, and pastimes first., Find out what you have a passion for or abilities that you can sell. click on profile
If I recall, “police package” versions of cars also still have physical keys…At least the Ford
Taurus and Dodge Charger did…you know, for “officer safety.”
Unrelated:
Hit a patch of something on a curve & went into an unexpected rear wheel skid in the fast lane on Lake Shore drive (lanes are VERY narrow), while pinned in between the concrete lane divider on my left & a car on my right.
Recovered it instinctively, only went very slightly sideways for a fraction of a second, & did not so much as scratch anyone’s paint.
Quite a moment, somewhere between @oh shit” & exhilarating.
But what I mean today is, skills matter. They matter a lot. And they can keep you out of a lot of trouble.
Also a note.
This is NOT he time to be fighting “lane keep assist” (which thankfully I don’t have) over control of the steering wheel!
I have no idea what the computer would have done in this situation but I have very little doubt it would have made things worse, not better. The safety envelope in this kind of situation is really quite small.
I have a ‘16, the fob is a “topper” for the regular key.
Well the fob started acting screwy, based on age I figured I’d replace the battery, that didn’t fix it.
And when I took it to Honda they didn’t even have the necessary part. So I’ve just been using it the old-fashioned way for now. Fine. Except tgeres only one keyhole! Nothing in the passenger side, nothing on the trunk! They have basically made it as annoying as possible to use it without the darned fob.
And, if you are out on a date, so much for being a gentleman & opening the passenger door so your lady friend can get in (at least until I get it fixed).
Oh yes, I had the dealership turn the saaaafety crap off in my newer vehicle. I do not need that, nor the bells and whistles interrupting my driving, or the good music, for that matter! We got a smatter of new snow the other day, and per usual Winter routine, everyone drives where the roads are clear, the lines be damned, including the State Troopers & local police. I can only imagine how annoying it would be to have to fight a lane/keep assist when trying to avoid ice, a block of snow, or even worse, someone who just pulled out in front of you!
Had a similar experience. Pulled into a parking space at Costco, car went into ASS stop mode and assumed I must have stopped the engine. Got out and went in the store, came out to find a car engine running and doors unlocked. Learned that the Merc doesn’t let one lock the doors if the car is in ASS stop mode. Also, fyi, Merc fob only needs to be near to start, not drive. Drive away from the fob and car beeps at you like a seatbelt warning.
Merc had an issue with key fobs decades ago. One of mine contained a transistor or IC that was temp sensitive. If left in sunlight the fob would heat up and LOCK the car up tight. Not so fine if its inside the car.
Even on a 2000 merc the PAT system is literally the backbone of all things electronic and therefore not worth removing and bypassing.
Worse story…took family 30 miles away for lunch, thought wife had fob for car, as she started vehicle. She thought I had it…we stopped, I turned off engine, said lock it up, she goes what? You have fob…nope…can’t restart it either!!! Had to call friends to get the fob from our house and run it to us, just to start damn car. Bought lunch for them, too. And this is a ’19 car, no more new vehicles for us!!! Could’ve been a lot worse!!! Could’ve drove it several hundred miles before we realized the error!!!
It makes me glad I have an old fashioned key to start my vehicle, Eric. And none of the stop/start crap, either. I have a friend who has a brand new Subaru Forester, complete with FOB and push button ignition (yuck). One day she went out to unlock her car in a parking lot, when out-of-nowhere, it not only unlocked her vehicle, but the Forester parked next to her. Gotta love technology, ‘eh?
Amen and ditto, Shadow!
I begin to revere my unexceptional ’02 pick-up because it has a key, does not have a touchscreen and has no “advanced assistance” technology or ASS, either. Because it is now exceptional to find a vehicle without those things.
“ to revere my unexceptional ’02 pick-up “
Well, these days what was average IS now exceptional! And priceless.
Finally got the ‘91 Silverado out of the snow & ran errands with the daughter all day, road trip to a town about 110 miles away. Ran perfect, totally comfortable cloth bench seat no console so room to roam (man spread) for me. 34 year old ball joints and A arm bushings still tracks better than the 2018 Grand Cherokee. That trip in the G C would have been torture, 45 minutes in those POS seats you’re ready for a break. Two hours in the truck not an issue. Cruising at 75 – 80 in the truck with the finger tip power steering was just blissful. And the cruise control and AC worked just fine.
Daughters comment “sure glad we took the truck today, I hate that Jeep!”
Hi Eric,
I thought with these fob cars the engine would shut off if you got far enough away from it with the fob in your pocket, as in parking in a distant spot in a Home Depot lot or such. Maybe the ASS programming screws that up? Yet another reason to hope I can keep my key operated cars running until I croak.
I recall an article from (I think Car and Driver) about 20 years ago when the remote keys began to roll out. As the story was told, the writer/reviewer dropped off his wife at a fast food restaurant with the intent for her to run in and grab some take out while he went down the street to get gas while she waited.
Turns out the key was with the wife, so when the writer stopped for fuel and turned off the ignition – it obviously wouldn’t turn back on.
The story explained how the wife had to walk like a mile or two down the road with the greasy bags of food in her hand to the gas station – with a very disgusted look on her face.
Hi Mike!
Nope. I drove the 30-something miles into town with now key and the key (fob) was during this time with the delivery driver who was driving back to the DC area, 230 miles down the road.
Are there really no physical keys anymore? My 2020 Ford had the option for both keyed and keyless and I of course choose keyed.
The few times I drove a keyless car I would have the fob in my pocket and when I stopped and ran into a store with the engine running (which I do often) the car would give me a start by honking at me when I walked away! I hated that!
I don’t like the key fob/push button ignition system, but it’s pretty much ubiquitous.
Every company car & every rental I’ve gotten has had that fie several years now.
As with all, or most tech, fobs take more time to use. Much faster and easier to use a key. I always have to look at the damn thing for the right button to push and often push the wrong one. Tech makes everything more complex and unnecessarily so.
Of course humans despise nanny tech. Duh. . .Psychopathy LOVES only how much we hate the crap it shits on us. It feeds on this frustration but can never feel satisfaction. By now its ploy is obvious.
I miss physical keys. But I’m old and curmudgeonly.
In the beamer, the first thing I do is mash the button to turn the ASS off. Thankfully there’s an option to override it. I try to think positively –if there was a way I could adjust the timeout period maybe it wouldn’t be so bad. Of course, I’d rather not have it at all.
Your time-out period, Mike, reminds me of my same friend with the new Forester. It came with a pre-installed auto start. Nice, right? Until she figured out she can only start it twice, and it only runs for ten minutes each time, and then it will not work any longer. Ugh, at -40 below a ten minute run is going to barely warm the cabin up, never mind if there is ice & snow on the windshield. I told her to go to the Auto Trim place and get a real one installed, that is not going to nanny her to death on one more “saaafety” issue.
Without a FOB there is no remote start. Don’t you want your car at the correct temp before you get in? Only real benefit I can come up with.
Have not really had problems with our FOB for the last 15 years, but have paid far more attention to them than keys, no question.
My fob has remote start and physical key that pops out like a switchblade. Best of both worlds.
How many dozen coin batteries to fuel the stoke on yr neeew mountain bike eh. . .
Interesting article, Eric! That makes me wonder whose idea it was to replace keys for starting (and shutting off) an automobile with a fob. Was it just someone who had the idea to replace something physical that has worked forever with fancy schmancy technology for the sake of fancy schmancy technology, or was it something more sinister like many electric companies that, over the past 15 years or so, have been replacing analog meters that have worked for DECADES with digital smart meters that can be used to SPY on people.
I honestly dont get this key fob thing myself, and actually find it a pain. One of my cars has a fob and the other a key – the number of times me or the Mrs goes off without the key (specifically when swapping cars)…. And yes it nags me about not having a key – but it nags me about so many pointless things I dont listen anymore …… till about the 3rd time it comes up with the red warning when im already a couple miles down the road !
I heard you twice the first time.
I said ‘no’ the first time, you just don’t listen.
When you say ‘no’, it has consequences.
I recently took a ride in an ASS vehicle. First time for the guy driving it too. He was freaked out as the engine stopped. Thought we were having car troubles until we realized it was the ASS.
At least it had an actual key.
Fobs are kewl.
Don’t you want to be kewl?
Seriously, though, keys have a distinct lack of patent potential, and patents are the life blood of an engineering career anymore. I speak from experience.
I’m glad I’m old … well, except when the employers play age discrimination games at work.
How many proprietary bs monikers has auto industry shat to avoid licensing fees for good ol controller area network ? Its so nice to retire and leave engineering to the ladies.
‘the delivery driver didn’t notice the engine had come back on when he pushed the button to turn it off.’ — eric
This is an example of a poorly designed User Interface — one button performs two different functions (on or off) depending on the current state of the system. But the current state can be non-obvious, particularly with ASS intruding (‘ASS seen on TeeVee’ — sorry; kidding).
Examples of Band-Aids to fix this sorry situation: 1. An LED in or above the start/stop button which glows green when the system is on, but goes out when it the system is off (nearly every cheap-ass household electronic device has this feature — duhhhhh!). 2. A rising-pitch chime when the button turns the system on; a falling-pitch chime when the system is turned off. 3. Or both, for absent-minded geezers.
A keyed ignition doesn’t need these Band-Aids, because the key can only be removed in the ‘off’ position. (If it ain’t broke, don’t ‘fix’ it.)
A $40,000 vehicle with such an amateurish user interface is an abomination.
Where’s the, ‘Like’ button for this article? Learned things I didn’t want to know, but glad I know now. Wow. No fob for me, thank you very much.
Are people who own cars which require a fob, all called, fobbers?
Or, fob’ers?
‘HANDS ORF, COBBER!’ screeched the British tabloids when an Ozzie prime minister touched the queen in 1992.
“Cobber” is an informal Australian and New Zealand term for a close friend or “mate”.
Now you can yell ‘HANDS ORF, FOBBER!’ at the kid with the black box fob cloner who’s driving away in your ride.
Technology making life bettahhhhhhh!! 🙂
The only fob I need is my stupid brain.
Don’t have any idea how smart it is.
What would you rather be, smart enough to be dumb enough or dumb enough to be smart enough?
Get a clue.
A key is the key.
I know, it is cryptic.
Thinking is planning in advance, the plan, Stan.
have to start someplace.
Not only is the possibility of a missing fob or dead fob battery a concern, these keys are always transmitting a frequency – for possible duplication by thieves.
Wiith the proper software, fobs can be cloned and a copy made remotely from a slight distance. Then a thief can just grab your car at a time and location convenient for them.
So now to be secure, you’ll need to store the fob in a Faraday bag and/or turn the fob off (not certain of other makes, but a Toyota fob can be turned off using a sequence of button pushing) to avoid signal capture.
Also, a real key can‘t be „stolen“ from your house simply by using a nearby notebook outside…. And once you are in the car, i stopped counting how often I had to search for the damned thing when I got out. A key is always where it belongs. Anyways I dumbed down my 2018 C class because behind the fancy „start“ button is the ignition lock where I can still use the keyish fob the car comes withso I removed the button.
Hi Eric,
If the goal of this article was to persuade me from buying a vehicle that does not come with a key you have succeeded. Not to brag, but we have so many keys for cars that we have a key hanger in the kitchen to keep track of them all. 😉
Morning, RG!
Hey, that and it was good fodder for a story!
Bonus points for having 50 keys for cars you sold or scrapped years ago! I know I have a problem because I had to make a huge key board.