There is a new online scam to be aware of that targets people looking for hard-to-find parts for classic cars.
As some of you reading this may know, I have been looking for an original (GM) center console for my 1976 Pontiac Trans-Am. This is a difficult to find part – in good condition – because almost all of the ones that are still in existence in good condition are in good condition Trans-Ams – and the owners of those cars aren’t interested in selling their car’s console. So finding a good one that’s for sale is something of a challenge.
One way to find parts like this is to post on owner/enthusiast forums dedicated to your particular make/model car. I’m a member of a couple such forums that are dedicated to classic Pontiacs. These forums are great resources as well as great places to get in touch with others who are as enthusiastic about your old car as you are. They are also, I have discovered, a great place for scammers.
Look out! – as OJ used to say.
I posted on one of the forums I’m a member of asking whether any of the members had a console for sale or maybe knew a good place to look. Almost all of these were helpful/commiserating replies from other Firebird/Trans-Am owners. But there was one that immediately caught my attention, probably because it seemed too good to be true. And indeed, so it turned out to be.
I got a reply from a guy who claimed he was a mechanic and had what I needed – and for $250. Both of those things ought to have signaled red alert but at first I was too excited to pay attention to my more rational impulses. I asked for pictures and he sent them. He appeared to have a very good condition original GM console and he only wanted $250 for it – Including shipping!
Yes, I know. It’s obvious in retrospect that something was very wrong with this picture. First, because “mechanic” sounds sketchy. Most people who have parts for sale for 50-year-old cars aren’t mechanics. They deal in classic car parts, used and new old stock – and generally represent themselves that way. A mechanic might have some parts for a modern car; that makes sense as mechanics work on cars. They also work on 50-year-old cars, but if they do, they are not generally in the business of selling the parts of them.
And $250? Including the cost of shipping? A good condition original center console for a ’70s-era Trans-Am is a rare piece and so an expensive piece. The going rate is around $800 – not including shipping. The center console is a bulky item that requires an oversized box and special packaging plus insurance (in case it gets lost or damaged in transit). Shipping something like that – that way – will typically cost $50.
So I ought to have known something wasn’t right with this picture. (There literally was something wrong with this picture, about which more follows below.)
But I tamped down my suspicions and tried to make arrangements to buy the console and that is what saved me, ultimately, from being fleeced to the tune of $250. The “mechanic” did not accept credit cards. Nor personal checks. What he wanted me to do was wire-transfer him the $250 directly from my bank. This also didn’t smell right. What mechanic – what shop – doesn’t accept payment via credit cards? Luckily, the scammer gave me obviously sketchy sounding information to wire-transfer him the money. It was an email with a foreign-sounding handle. Then he gave me a different one. My Spider Sense was tingling by this time. I asked the scammer to give me his address and he balked at first. Then I got an address. Not of a business, but of some apartment in Texas.
It was enough.
My tech-not-hipness is what ultimately saved me. I do not do the wire-transfer thing; the buying stuff using phone apps and such. Credit cards have one great benefit, that being you have some recourse via the credit card company when a transaction goes stinky. You have essentially no recourse when you send someone money directly from your bank. It’s gone the moment it’s sent and the person you sent it to is as well. Your texts and emails will suddenly go unanswered. And you will never get the part you thought you bought.
Later on, I was scrolling through the eBay Motors ads and found a guy selling a manual Trans-Am console. The picture showed the same console the scammer had sent me. It was not same guy (i.e., the scammer) who posted the eBay ad. The scammer had used the eBay ad’s picture to try to sell what he didn’t actually have.
Ah yes, my little chickadee!
I used to think the old car forums were safe spaces; that the people there were people like me; i.e., car people. Mostly this is true. I have found out that there scammer people cruise these boards, too – looking for potential marks. Don’t be one. Listen to your Spider Sense – and never forget the dictum that warns, if something sounds too good to be true then it almost certainly is.
. . .
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I almost got had too. My scammer was on a Facebook car group. I was looking for a certain intake. I was contacted by a dude who said he had one for sale and sent me several pictures and a great price (about half of the price of a new one).
The red flags started popping up as he also asked for Paypal “friends and family”. Looking into this, I found out that if you buy something through the friends and family setting, Paypal takes less of a cut, but the buyer has no fraud protections.
To test this dude further, I countered his offer with a ridiculously lowball offer and he said “sure” without negotiation.
That was the end of the transaction.
Watch the scammers they are a willey bunch. My story, convoluted as it is:
I received a call in my office of the small business I operate in FL. The person calling was from a merchant services company wanting to verify some information on the application I had applied for a credit card acceptance account with his company in AZ. Hmm, that’s funny, I already had an account with my bank.
Rather than contacting the person on the application directly he used the Googs and called me directly. I was sent everything he received after the application was denied. Two accounts were successfully opened and I received nearly $300k in chargebacks. Many more attempted.
They were damn slick. A Google earth picture of my shop. An FL DL with my info and an Asian face on it (Swedish decent here). The local sheriff’s office did their investigation, such as it was.
The scammers opened the accounts, charged stolen credit cards random amounts mostly in four figures and as soon as the money hit the bank account they opened on another’s stolen ID they transferred it to eastern Europe someplace. Brilliant. Fortunately for me I was out no cash, only the headache of cleaning up after the useless fu#$&^%. Sadly that $300k cost all of us.
Try to find the right people to talk to about this situation on the “press one for” phone screener. Its like it has never happened before. They could not understand me being a victim of ID theft.
May they rot in hell.
Ross
Morning, Ross –
Crucifixion is too gentle for such people. Only pederasts are lower.
Ordinarily I’m against “Power Projection” against other nations that legitimately pursue their own interests. But those that allow these “scam centers” to operate, via telemarketing or the Internet, because obviously they’re being bribed, need a few Hellfire missiles or even a low-yield (less than 5 kT) nuclear weapon to send the MESSAGE.
Reverse image search is good thing to use.
The scammers have been doing this for years on facebook and in forums. Forums are usually good for one scam victim per handle/ISP. The forums usually police their for sale areas and scammers get banned. They steal photos from someone with the part (or whole car) for sale and then post their trap.
Eric’s near disaster and other comments with issues even when dealing with an actual business – – –
NEVER ever ever ever wire money or use a debit card! Credit card, you’re using the banks money not yours! Transaction off the rails, no or inadequate response, time for a chargeback. Make sure you’ve got the backup info and fill out your chargeback accurately. For BOA it’s pretty straight forward. That charge is held pending the investigation and vendor response. Usually gets a lazy vendor to step it up and fix the problem, if they fail to respond to the bank investigation then they don’t get paid and you don’t get charged.
I know many/most probably know all this but I thought it was worth posting if it helps someone, anyone.
Good advice. Using a CC saved me when a once good company hit money flow issues. Not unusual for a small company to get overextended but what makes a good one from a bad one is how they handle it. Most enthusiast companies are run by enthusiasts who might not have the best business sense. The usual M.O. is start to shuffle money from current orders to buy stock and a hiccup catches them short. Legality aside they originally started the company to sell Firebird parts not do the books, not hard to see the problem.
Anyway, when a promised 2 week lead turned to a month to 3 months then rumors of bankruptcy swirl in the forums. You want to empathize. These are people you probably see at annual gatherings and events, maybe see at club meetings. They might even be friends. But money is money. Alerting your CC for a charge back and getting them and their lawyers involved as a creditor is wise.
The center console is a bulky item that requires an oversized box and special packaging plus insurance (in case it gets lost or damaged in transit). Shipping something like that – that way – will typically cost $50.
Haven’t shipped anything lately eh?
I’m thinking about double, oversize box ouch.
Cripes! Turds in the soup. That put me off my Campbell’s Condensed.
So here’s what it’s come down to, for sellers of quasi-legal, kratom-derived pills:
‘Effective immediately, all missing product claims must include an unedited unboxing video.
‘For Tabs:
-Start with sealed shipping box (top and bottom) in frame
-Cut tape on camera
-Show entire contents
-Tabs must be counted on video’
But if you already opened the box and found a shortage, it’s a bit too late to go back and make that unedited unboxing video. Arrow of time, etc. Sheesh!
Beware of the naked man selling you, his shirt.
Eric, This isn’t exactly a scam, but you will appreciate the stupidity of the world we live in. Last year I ordered two gas tank straps from an online parts place in Chicago. When they arrived one was missing from the flimsiest box I have ever seen held together by one piece of tape. I took pictures and contacted the company. I swear, the list of instructions I was supposed to follow was to send them a picture of the part I didn’t get. They didn’t deserve their one star rating.
Amazon gave me similar instruction when the sent me an EMPTY box.
Then were going to charge me because I didn’t send it back.
Glad you had the sensibility to recognize the bs. “If it’s too good to be true, it probably is” is time tested wisdom.
Thankfully in my hit-n-miss engine hobby, there’s a gaggle of suppliers / vendors / private folks who have established trust among collectors.
Be sure to report them to the site’s admin account. These online forums that allow private sales need to keep their reputation intact.
And it’s not just “scammers”.
My recent experience with Parts Geek (what was I thinking ordering something from a company with such an infantile name?) makes me question EVERY online transaction. After weeks of fighting them to return the wrong part they admittedly sent, I got restitution. But, the time and hassle involved more that covered the ~$100 parts I ordered.
The really odd thing happened next.
We had a problem with our router and called our internet provider to resolve the issue. The tech they sent out was cheerful and efficient. She had the problem resolved in minutes. While she was leaving she noticed the automotive paraphernalia in my office and asked if I knew anything about cars. It seems she had a last-gen Camero and was having difficulty finding an EGR tube. She’d ordered one but it was wrong and could not get it resolved.
From whom did she purchase this item?
If you said Parts Geek, go to the head of the class (h/t Walter E. Williams)
I’ve bought several things through Parts Geek. It seems to be a middleman that connects buyers to wholesale warehouses. In my case it’s almost always Aisin or Denso parts for an old Toyota for which I have either or both the original Toyota part number or the aftermarket part number. Their search works with either, it’s actually very convenient.
I usually check Parts Geek and Rock Auto then place the order with the one who has the better price. Rock Auto has their own warehouses and based on the shipping manifest I suspect sometimes Parts Geek orders are fulfilled out of them.
Bottom line is Parts Geek isn’t a total scam with the caveat you have to be sure you know exactly what you want. It’s razor thin margins I assume. So not full service, there’s not much customer service, no holding your hand.
But their prices are pretty dang good, $10 for an Aisin thermostat and $9 for a Sankei temperature sender, both made in Japan actual OEM parts for my 1981 Celica 22R. Toyota wanted $40 for the thermostat in their box and the sender was no longer available at any price from them.
I ordered a set of engine mounts for a Mazda Protege5 with manual trans. I phoned the order and got verbal confirmation that it was for a manual. They sent a set for an automatic. They twice acknowledged they sent the wrong parts. They demanded I photo all parts and provide the vin after admitting they sent the wrong parts.
Any legit business would be apologizing and sending call tags immediately. Not them. It took nearly a month to get them to settle.
Caveat emptor.
I’ve only ever ordered through the website and that has always been to the part number. So far what was sent was exactly what I ordered.
Your experience does not surprise me at all. Their business model is fulfillment at the cheapest price. The whole flow is one way to get junk out the door. Going backwards is a monkey wrench to the operation.
They might sell themselves as a parts counter but you’re not getting a grizzled semi-retired mechanic like you might at NAPA who’ll understand and probably anticipate what you’re asking.
It’s probably a minimum wage drone in a call center or likely now an A.I. agent one minute selling auto parts, the next shampoo and the next hard drives.
Caveat emptor is spot on. Or another trite saying, you get what you pay for.
If you know what you need and want to pay the absolutely smallest mark up they seem to fit the bill.
It’s completely understandable one may need to pay what it costs to employ someone who truly cares about helping and is knowledgeable.
All I am saying is in my experience it’s a legitimate business in that they aren’t stealing money and never sending products.
Eric: “Later on, I was scrolling through the eBay Motors ads and found a guy selling a manual Trans-Am console. The picture showed the same console the scammer had sent me.”
So how much was the console off of eBay?
As for being scammed; decades ago I bought what was listed as an NOS trim piece. It’s around 5 feet long in stainless steel in the original GM paper wrapping, it was shipped wrapped in cardboard and that’s it. By the time I received it was only fit for scrap unless you knew how to straighten stainless. I was covered by the insurance though. I’ve still got that piece though. It’s always painful when you own old stuff and need quality replacement parts.
I really enjoyed this tale, not out of shard-end-froid, but because the same sort of thing happened to me and my boyhood transistor radio. A Sobell. A beautiful, slim, three wave-band, poppy red portable radio. I loved it. I could tape it to my bike, and listen to the Christy Minstrels as I biked along the lonely lanes of east Essex.
And then in 2010, I lost the on/off knob. So I did what you do; went to an Audio-phile site and posted a request. One came back instantly. Yes, they had the knob. Send money. Where are you, I asked? St. Albans. St Albans is just a few miles from where I live, and I know the town well. It has 2 train stations.
No, let’s not risk the post, I say. I will come to St. Albans with the cash and pick up your knob in person.
Sorry, no can do this week, comes the swift reply. I am away in Manchester all week. OK, says I, I will wait till you return. Well, I’ll be away on holiday for two weeks. Where to, asks I (hoping this is all true.)
Wales. Wales??? Are you for real, or are you just pulling my plonker, you ass-hole.
No reply to that one.
I’m not bitter.
Hi Stephen!
That’s a great one – in the sense that you didn’t get taken. I’m glad to hear it. I’ve generally had good luck buying parts online; most sellers are reputable. Many are fine people who so their best to help you with finding what you need. But there are a few turds in the soup – and you’ve got to watch out for them.