Government, it’s said is a necessary evil. Without it, there’d be – here it comes! – anarchy! And that would be even worse than the evil that is government. Or so it’s said.
But would it be so, in fact?
Given how evil we know government is, in fact, perhaps it’s worth looking into what anarchy might be – and whether it might be less of an evil than government.
First, though, we ought to be clear about the things we’re discussing.
What doe we mean by government? It is fundamentally the sole authority that legally controls an area (and the people within that area) via coercion.
The italics are used to emphasize two important things – relative to anarchy.
Government decides the extent of its own authority. There is no other (legal) authority to counterbalance the self-described authority of government. Jefferson and Madison tried to limit government not only by attempting to restrict it to enumerated (that is, specifically described) powers but also by creating a tiered – or federalized – system that would give some appeal contra authority within the structure of the authority itself. The House would balance the Senate and both would balance the Executive. Jefferson and Madison also articulated one further appeal – also still within the system. The states could nullify what the federal government decreed by ignoring what the federal government decreed or by refusing to enforce or allow its enforcement within the boundaries of the objecting states.
There was, of course, a more effective – and final – appeal that was ended by Abraham Lincoln. That of secession. It is a word that became a dirty word – on account of the outcome of that war, the victors always determining how the war is viewed by posterity. They made “secession” synonymous with rebellion – as if that were necessarily a bad thing. It is not generally considered a bad thing with regard to what the American colonists (some of them) did with regard to Great Britain but it became a very bad thing indeed, when their descendants attempted precisely the same four score and seven years later. Since then, the idea of rebellion has carried with it an inculcated smack of unwarranted defiance; i.e., it is taken as fundamentally (always) wrong to “rebel” against the authority of the government. That is, to reject its authority as illegitimate and thus, evil.
This gets us back to anarchy.
What doe we mean by this term?
It is taken by many to by synonymous with chaos – but that is a slander as well as misunderstanding, deliberately spread by the apologists for government. The word simply means the absence of . . . government. Once this is understood, one understands why the apologists for government do their damndest to inculcate the false association of anarchy with chaos. Most everyone dislikes chaos. This dislike is used to get people corralled into accepting the necessity of government as the only alternative to . . . chaos.
But anarchy is not chaos. It is merely the diffusion of authority, which is the only effective way to ward off the evils of government. It is effective because there is no single authority, which necessarily means there is always a way to check the abuse of authority. Consider the anarchy of a neighborhood. There are many homes in this neighborhood and within each there are rules for those who live within but these rules are only binding on those who live within – and those who live within are free to come and go as they like (excepting minor children, who remain under the authority of their parents until they are adults, at which point they are also free to come and go as they like). When you agree to enter the home of another, you agree to abide by the “house rules.” But you are not forced to enter – and you may leave, if the “house rules” are not to your liking.
If the neighborhood does not suit, there is always another neighborhood. And your old neighborhood has no power to compel you to abide by its way of doing of things. This competition is similar (and similarly salutary) to the free market competition that increases more and better alternatives in the sphere of economics. It works just as well – or would – if it were applied to politics. Jefferson and his sort tried to do just that, but their efforts ultimately failed because much as they tipped the hat to the concept of diffusing authority, they nonetheless based everything they tried to build on the foundation of government rather than anarchy.
The limited government they created worked remarkably well for four score and seven years – and to no small extent, pretty well even after the four score and seven years (and the repudiation in principle of diffusing authority) but it was inevitable we’d drift inexorably to a state of unlimited, because omnipotent, authority that brooked no alternative to its unlimited omnipotence. We find ourselves now subject to a dictatorship just shy of admitting it is precisely that.
Could anarchy be any worse?
Arguably, it would be a lot better – because while you still might have to deal with little dictators, the big ones would be nonexistent. The next-door neighbor is annoying – but not only can’t he tax you, you can legally resist his attempted depredations. Try resisting the government’s depredations.
You are a “criminal” if you do.
Thins would certainly be more interesting – in a good way – in an anarchical system. There would be a variety of things – of everything – that the mindset of today’s consolidated/directed/permitted populace cannot even begin to imagine. Things would get sorted out by a million private decisions rather than by diktats issued by a handful to millions. While – of course – it would be easier to some extent for bad people to do bad things, bad people would be much less able to do truly epochal evil things – such as genocide whole populations. We are trained to recoil in horror at the thought that it’d be easier to drive a car recklessly absent speed limits and enforcement of the same but also trained to not think about the millions starved/bombed into oblivion by the organized evil that is government.
Things would be different – and that would be more than just good.
. . .
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If you live in an HOA in Florida, governed by FS 720, the annoying neighbors can actually tax you.
The law started with good intentions under Shrub’s brother Jeb!, but it has been tweaked over the years through careful additions and strike outs to be very draconian.
Unfortunately, the seat of Republican power in Florida currently rests in The Villages, the ultimate fascist homeowners association, and in places like Tampa and Pensacola, heavy late career military presence often means the annoying neighbor wears a uniform and frets about getting a tenbagger out of his/her last off-base housing allowance grift.
You will comply … or else.
@AJC (and Dave Darby) Sorry, Steve, but Trump has been bombing their homes. The Ayatollah and all the leaders Trump and the Jews assassinated were in their homes. Their families have been killed and anyone who was living in the same apartment building”
It’s about damn time! Historically, wars have targeted civilians. Finally, at long last, t’s the head of the snake that gets targeted. Look at Russia-Ukraine if you want to see old-time war with new weapons. Putin has had more than enough opportunity to send an Oreshnik after Zelensky, but instead has been using them old-school on military and infrastructure,
I was responding to someone who insisted we were bombing civilian neighborhoods. Old-school war. That seems not to be happening. There is more than enough open-source aerial recon to prove it to yourself, if you cared to.
The girl’s school was obviously a mistake, one that we don’t yet have the details about. Someone put it on the priority attack list, using data that was over a decade old. We don’t yet know how that happened, and someone needs to get some serious punishment for that, but we have not yet been permitted to know who exactly is at fault. I would probably put most of the blame on Israel — It was their LEEEEEEEEERoy Jenkins maneuver that forced the timing.
At least LEEROY JENKINS!!! attacked someone who was a legitimate target & capable of defending himself.
As opposed to, well, a building full of defenseless little girls.
I’ll back “ethical but stupid” over “fighting dirty” any day of the week.
Why do you hate so much that you refuse to consider the possibility the girl school was not intentional? So far, they have not released any information other than DIA had not updated the assessment of that building since Obama. Why? How did it get on a priority target list when they had not made any attempt to update the building’s use?
Personally, I think it’s probably “just” a major intel cockup. Particularly because there’s been nothing similar since. Maybe it was a one-off deliberate action, but I doubt it. At the very least, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt, and go with the simplest explanation.
Because I’ve heard this excuse many, many times before, going back at least as far as the Clinton administration, and by this point it’s wearing more than a little bit thin.
There was no excuse for that. Zero.
Rule #4: Know your target, and what is behind it, and above it, and below it, and beside it.
Steve, you say one thing. People respond. And then you change your comment. Civilians are being bombed. Israel has no problem bombing residential buildings. They’ve just done it egregiously in Lebanon. They are doing it all over Iran. The U.S. has bombed residential areas before: Mosul, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki. They are also bombing schools, hospitals, universities, mosques, etc. Israel has bombed a desalination plant. Israel was caught in the first days of the war trying to bomb gulf state oil and gas infrastructure. Israel is determined to destroy Iran because they cannot compete. That is why they routinely destroy Lebanon, Iraq and Syria.
You say the Iranian school was a mistake, but Trump has yet to take responsibility. U.S. and Israel have been bombing for over a month– there are not that many military targets in Iran! Every day Hegseth says “today” will be the severest strikes (he said it again today). Trump repeatedly states he’s going to obliterate Iran. Neither say obliterate everything but civilians and civilian targets. Is all of this a “mistake?”
AI: Based on reports as of early April 2026, over 16,000 residential units and thousands of civilian buildings in Iran have been impacted or destroyed by US-Israeli strikes. Reports suggest 67,414 civilian sites were struck in total, with some reports noting over 82,000 buildings damaged, including schools, hospitals, and homes across nearly all Tehran neighborhoods. Total Affected Sites: The Iranian Red Crescent reported over 67,000 civilian sites were affected. Residential Damage: Early figures indicated 16,000 residential units were affected by March 11, 2026. Widespread Impact: Attacks have been reported across at least 29 of Iran’s 31 provinces, with heavy damage in Tehran. Timeline: Since the start of the war on February 28, 2026, (TENS OF) thousands of strikes have been conducted. Scope: In addition to homes, 498 schools and 236 health facilities have been reported struck. These figures are largely based on reports from Iranian authorities and international bodies, which continue to evolve as the situation escalates.”
AI: “According to Iranian officials, including the Science Minister, over 30 universities in Iran have been directly targeted or damaged by U.S. and Israeli airstrikes since the conflict began in late February 2026. Targeted institutions, including Shahid Beheshti University and Isfahan University of Technology, are claimed to be hit as part of a campaign against Iran’s infrastructure.”
AI:”According to Iranian officials and reports from late March 2026, over 120 museums, historical buildings, and cultural sites across Iran have sustained damage from U.S. and Israeli strikes during the ongoing conflict. Damage includes major landmarks like the UNESCO-listed Golestan Palace in Tehran and the Chehel Sotoun pavilion in Isfahan.
Total Damaged Sites: At least 120 museums, historical buildings, and cultural sites across various provinces, with over 50 recorded in Tehran alone, as of late March 2026. Key Sites Damaged: Golestan Palace (Tehran): A UNESCO World Heritage site featuring Qajar-era architecture, which sustained damage to its glass-mosaic walls and structures. Naqsh-e Jahan Square (Isfahan): Multiple structures in this UNESCO site were impacted. Chehel Sotoun Pavilion (Isfahan): A 17th-century Safavid-era pavilion known for its frescoes and mosaics. Ali Qapu Palace: Located in Isfahan. Masjed-e Jame (Isfahan): Iran’s oldest Friday mosque. Saadabad Complex & Marble Palace: Located in Tehran. Khorramabad Valley: Buildings near these prehistoric sites were damaged. Context: Iran has claimed that these sites were “directly targeted”. UNESCO confirmed it verified damage to multiple Iranian cultural sites and confirmed that the coordinates of these sites were shared with all parties involved in the conflict beforehand.”
NO CASUALTY FIGURES GIVEN
From context, it should be intuitively obvious to the casual observer of the meanest intelligence that I was speaking specifically about how the US determines bombing targets. It goes without saying that other countries have different procedures, so I was intentionally leaving out Israel. And Russia. And Ukraine.
And I know Trump has not yet taken responsibility. They have not yet released the investigation of what happened, but my money is on this is yet another attempt by someone in the intel community to take down Trump. Not that I’m all rah, rah Trump, but there is a history of that in the blob.
I’m not going to look too hard at what civilian architecture got damaged until there’s more independently geo-located evidence. So far, all we have is propaganda. From both sides.
Excuse me? Trump blamed the Iranians and first Hegseth said the Army was investigating (even though the US Army had already taken responsibility) and then he started blaming Iran to agree with his boss.
https://www.facebook.com/aljazeera/videos/trump-blames-inaccurate-iran-for-girls-school-strike/26391674090426639/
You are such a zionist liar, steve. U.S. doesn’t investigate and investigate and investigate and then a year or so later dismiss the investigation and charges and say the gang sodomizers are IDF heroes and to even accuse them (even though there’s video) is a blood libel!
I posit that the cultural homogeny you cite *used* to be Christianity in the USA. One of the Founders said that our form of government, constitutional republic, can only work on a moral and righteous people. For some reason, people as individuals tend to be moral and righteous, but as a collective we are not.
Ha! In a way, I think I just made Eric’s argument…
Yes, and…
While it’s a position that got me kicked off another site, I’d add Enlightenment thought to the cultural homogeneity. Yes, France screwed that up bigly, as did Marx, so that should be a cautionary tale for those who think all morality can be derived from first principles, but there are plenty of examples of Enlightenment cultures which did not go to Reign of Terror.
Good article without government it would sort it’s self out criminals would not live long like it was before bug government protected the criminals and screwed the decent people.
I love this article. Definitely sharing😎
Thanks, Lord Jim!
Maybe we can get something rolling; I think about the how to do that constantly. I can write – and so I do that. I wish I could do more.
@AJC “Did you see the B1 traffic bridge Trump bombed because it was the highest in the world?”
Remember what has been said about pretending to know what someone else is thinking?
The official reason to bomb it is that it had no civilian purpose, or at least had not yet been opened to the public. It was instead used to move military assets between bases. Is that the real motivation? I don’t know. I can’t read minds.
But it’s certainly plausible, and has the added benefit of being the simplest explanation that fits the data. To accept your telling of events, you would have to explain why he hasn’t ordered other civilian bridges bombed.
Too many define anarchy as chaos. They see places like Somalia and call it anarchy. That is not anarchy as it’s defined, as Somalia is full of groups of warlords battling to it out to BE the government.
Government is NOT a necessary evil. It’s just plain evil. It can be a start to make it as small as possible, like some conservatives would like, but it’s like kudzu. It grows back fast and is unstoppable. Governments draw the worst of society, the lazy, the never do well, the narcissist, the busy body, the criminal just to name a few.
Since it is difficult to contain and check it, it should be banished to the dustpan of history.
We anarchists have lost the war over nomenclature, just like the word “liberal” has been subverted. What used to be “liberal” is now “classical liberal” or “libertarian”.
We need to pick a new one and stick with it; perhaps “decentralized leadership” or something like that.
Even if we don’t have full ancapistan, imagine how much better the world would be if the Federal government was weaker and left more to the states, or the next step, where instead of states we had city-states. Baby steps…
“Government” is not “Evil” at all! But NO form works w/o the most important of all: SELF-Government. With it, a very limited form at what level is necessary serves as an arbiter of honest disputes and to administer law. It’s actually the absence of LAW that’s the “anarchy”, not the “authority”. All this pontificating about “Anarchy” and “any government is ‘eee-vuhl’ ” tends to miss the point: it’s OK as long as people are (1) wanting to be left ALONE, to “sink or swim” on their own, and (2) they’re willing to LET others likewise be ALONE to “sink or swim”.
That idealism simply runs counter to Human NATURE. As the First LDS President and “Prophet, Seer, and Revealtor”, Joseph Smith, Junior, put it, “We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion” (Doctrine and Covenants, Section 121, Verse 39). Whether you believe Smith to have been a pious fraud, con man and “gold digger”, deluded fanatic, or…a prophet of God, he certainly nailed human nature as a man who’d been leading the fledgling LDS Church for almost ten years by that point could have learned!
This is why 1A and 2A were written in the order they were. The need for 1A is self-evident, but many don’t get beyond the right to shoot one’s mouth off. It also is supposed to protect the right to PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE, and, almost never mentioned, to PETITION THE GOVERNMENT…for what? A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES. If only we got to wait for “Festivus” to do that!
2A is for when the provisions of 1A aren’t working and its time to give those assholes in the Government a dose of HOT LEAD. Sadly, that’s typically what it comes down to, as it did SUCCESSFULLY from 1776 to 1781 for the United States of America, and UNSUCCESSFULLY from 1861 to 1865 for the erstwhile Confederate State of America.
For Anarchy to actually work for the common good an educated and moral population that governs their actions so as not to violate the rights of others would be a great asset. As the general populace is to a great extend neither educated nor interested in not interfering in the lives of others I can safely predict that the non interference belief had better be backed up by sufficient firepower to correct the incorrect attitudes of their fellow residents.
The Freehold book series by Michael Z. Williamson does give a few ideas on this matter.
Lot of truth there, Landru. I’d add another, though. Culturally homogeneous. That’s a much better predictor than education. Particularly what passes for education at the moment. College campuses and high schools are currently some of the major hotbeds of anti-freedom sentiment.
But like Heinlein noted, “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
“The Freehold book series by Michael Z. Williamson does give a few ideas on this matter.”
I’ve read Freehold several times by now, because it’s a great read and it gives me hope that maybe, some day, there will be a true libertarian society/planet for ‘those who just want to be left alone’ to escape to.
But, note that even in that book of fiction, the Earth government could not abide by allowing a truly free society to flourish, so they chose to militarily invade. At an ultimately shocking cost to both their own and the Freehold’s populations, but hey, it had to be done, right?
The excuses they made for the invasion could have easily come from any of today’s politicians. As the French say – the more things change, the more they stay the same.
A big part of the problem is that a lot this is coming from the clergy.
It is said that the American Revolution was preached from the pulpits. But that would never happen today.
Quite some time back a really absolutist interpretation of the thirteenth chapter of the book of Romans took hold in the seminaries. I used to hear that John McArthur guy espousing it all the time on the car radio back around 15 or 16 years ago.
To hear him tell it, all rebellion or resistance to any authority is ungodly and sinful. _All_ authorities are to be unfailingly obeyed, without exception. He condemned the American Revolution as such.
I don’t know if he even knew about the English Civil War(s) of the 1600s.
As far as I could understand him he even condemened any and all underground resistance to Hitler & Co.
He didn’t seem to realize he was sawing off the branch he was sitting on. Revolts and rebellions and revolutions sometimes _succeed_.
So, according to him, the victorious rebels/revolutionaries must now in their turn be unquestionably obeyed in all things.
There definitely are a lot of preachers spouting blasphemy. Not even Paul or Peter believed that’s what the letter to the Romans meant. Obviously. They continued to rebel against the authority of Rome until they were executed, one by crucifixion, the other by beheading.
You’ve got to find a body of believers who are not so self-evidently wrong.
Sts. Peter and Paul were imprisoned and killed at the behest of the Jewish religious leaders–just like Jesus. Jews were always turning Christians in for violating Roman Law (Jesus fled when the Jews wanted to make him a king but that’s what the Jews got Him put to death for). They didn’t want anyone teaching the truth that God is the CREATOR (not the Destroyer–that’s the devil: the thief cometh only to kill, steal and destroy. He was a liar from the beginning).
It’s funny how you all can say the ministers have the incorrect interpretation of St. Paul’s letter to the Romans–and yet you can point to no letter of St. Paul’s or any of the disciples or any of Jesus’ recorded words where they advise anyone to rebel against the Romans or their Jewish leaders or that any of them engage in any rebellious acts. The New Testament tells you how to get yourself to heaven. The first thing you have to do is obey God’s commandments which are far more stringent than any government’s: love God with your whole heart, mind and strength and love your neighbor as YOURSELF. And then at the last supper it became: Love one another as I have loved you (John 13:34 and 15:12).
Arrest (Acts 4): The Priests, the captain of the Temple guard, and the Sadducees arrested Peter and John, holding them in custody overnight until the next day because it was already evening. Reason for Arrest: The officials were “greatly disturbed” because the apostles were teaching about the resurrection of the dead through Jesus. The Beating (Acts 5): While the first arrest in Acts 4 resulted only in threats and a warning, the apostles (including Peter and John) were arrested, imprisoned, and subsequently beaten (flogged) by the Sanhedrin in Acts 5:17-40 for continuing to preach in Jesus’ name. Aftermath: Despite being beaten, they left the council rejoicing that they were worthy to suffer for the name of Jesus and continued preaching daily in the Temple and from house to house.
According to Acts 12:1-4, Peter was imprisoned by King Herod Agrippa I
during the Festival of Unleavened Bread (Passover) in Jerusalem. Following the execution of James, Herod seized Peter to please the Jewish leaders, intending to publicly try and likely execute him after the Passover, but Peter was miraculously freed by an angel.
Philippi (Acts 16): Paul was jailed for exorcising a demon from a slave girl, which deprived her owners of income from her fortune-telling, leading to accusations that he was violating Roman customs.
Jerusalem (Acts 21): Paul was arrested after a rumor spread that he brought a Gentile into the forbidden areas of the Temple, causing a riot.
Caesarea (Acts 24-26): After being transferred for his own safety from a mob in Jerusalem (who were going to stone him like they did Stephen), Paul was imprisoned for two years under governors Felix and Festus due to accusations that he was a “pestilent fellow,” an agitator, and a ringleader of the Nazarene sect.
Rome (Acts 28): Paul spent two years under house arrest in Rome for appealing to Caesar to avoid being sent back to Jerusalem for a prejudiced trial.
“Sts. Peter and Paul were imprisoned and killed at the behest of the Jewish religious leaders–just like Jesus.”
Don’t tell half-truths. They were killed by whom? I’m not absolving the Pharisees or Sadducees for their roles. Just noting that the Romans did the deed. And that Peter and Paul both ignored Roman law when it contravened God’s law. So, no, not even they believed you need to obey ALL earthly authorities.
And, no, there is no letter or directive to rebel against the Romans. Instead, as He said, “My kingdom is not of this world.”
And to put a point on it, I thought this an absurd argument when Bill Kristol made it. He insisted the US was not to blame for innocents at Gitmo. The blame instead lay with the Afghans who lied to American troops and intelligence about members of rival tribes, using US might to settle centuries-old scores.
Americans are to blame for innocents at Gitmo. Romans were to blame for the innocents punished at their hands.
Right, Steve, don’t blame the witness who gave false testimony, blame the police who arrested or jury who convicted based on the false testimony!
It is against the 10 commandments to bear false witness against your neighbor as well as a crime in the United States–and we define neighbor like Jesus Christ, not like a greedy shyster/Jewish lawyer/anti-God rabbi.
P.S. Might as well add the war crimes currently going on in Iran and the entire GWOT to your list–the lies of the Jewish State aren’t to blame: despite what Rubio and Kent said, Trump took responsibility, so it’s the Americans going to take the fall (just like ARAB terrorists took the fall for Lutnik/Epstein 911).
Same goes for the lying Jew testimony against the Nazis at Nuremberg and elsewhere. The lamp shades made out of skin (Look up the B of Buchenwald – American commander pardoned her, but then she was tried again by the Germans and convicted on the incredibly false testimony), the bars of soap, and the gas chambers. Lie Weasel was at Auschwitz. Nazis were throwing live babies into burning pits when he got there according to his testimony that U.S. students are still forced to read today. Never mentioned a gas chamber in “Night.” He wasn’t killed when he got frost bite on his foot and couldn’t work but was hospitalized and received surgery. Lie and his father, who never worked a day at Auschwitz (and wasn’t gassed to death), refugeed with the Germans to another camp rather than stay at Auschwitz and be rescued by the Russians.
Not what I said at all. Those guilty of bearing false witness are guilty of bearing false witness. That’s a tautology. Those guilty of punishing innocents are guilty of punishing innocents. Another tautology.
If you are the one imposing your “justice”, at the very least you have to make every attempt to prevent people from “gaming” the system. To a large degree, that’s what’s wrong with the out-of-control “justice” system in America. See, for example, qualified immunity. Or the weaponization of #MeToo and all the DIE crap destroying people and organizations.
The cudgel of tyranny is emblazoned with Romans 13
Yes.
Yes. That’s why the half-truths AJC was talking about must be addressed. Romans 13 is not supposed to be a blank check for tyrants. It’s not intended to support “divine right of kings.”
The major reason it’s interpreted that way is that it was beneficial to the church. In exchange for the fig leaf, monarchs gave the church land and wealth.
There you go again, Steve. What I said to you was (1) Neither Jesus Christ, St. Peter or St. Paul, or St. John the Baptist, or St. Stephen or anyone in the New Testament was a rebel against Rome–they were all spreading the Good News, Gospel of Jesus Christ.
(2) I said why quibble about one verse when nowhere in the NT do any of them rebel, plan to rebel or tell anyone to rebel against any established government. You might also see John 19:11 “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.”
But since you mention it, I thought “Divine right of Kings” came from OT. AI: “David spared Saul’s life primarily because he revered Saul as “the Lord’s anointed,” believing it was forbidden to harm a king appointed by God. Despite having opportunities to kill him, David trusted in God’s timing for his ascension, rather than taking the throne through violence, and believed vengeance belonged to God.”
Also if you weren’t a protestant you might know about 1 & 2 Maccabees which your boldly sinning ex-Priest Luther threw out of the Bible because of 1 Verse saying it was holy to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins. AI: “The Maccabees were a group of Jewish rebel warriors and priests who led a successful revolt against the Seleucid Empire in the 2nd century BCE. Led by Mattathias and his son Judas Maccabee (“the Hammer”), they fought against the suppression of Jewish religious practices, recaptured Jerusalem, and rededicated the Temple, an event celebrated in Hanukkah.”
You say “the Church” received land and wealth for upholding the divine right of kings, but look what happened to the Catholic Church in England when it refused to annul Henry VIII’s marriage: Catholic religions was banned, many priests were martyred and all monasteries, convents, lands and churches confiscated. Archbishop of Canterbury Thomas Beckett was murdered in 1170 by Henri II. 30 of 35 first popes were martyred. Other popes who were arrested by secular authorities include: Pope Pius VI (1798): Arrested by French revolutionary troops, removed from Rome, and died in captivity in France. Pope Pius VII (1809–1814): Arrested by Napoleon Bonaparte’s troops after excommunicating him and held in Savona for five years. Pope Boniface VIII (1303): Arrested and physically assaulted by agents of King Philip IV of France, contributing to his death shortly after. Pope John XXIII (1415): Arrested and imprisoned during the Council of Constance to end the Western Schism. Early/Medieval Popes: Popes like Sergius III and Benedict IX were involved in scandals and imprisoned during the chaotic 10th-11th century conflicts in Rome. Avignon Papacy (1309–1377): While not technically imprisoned, seven successive popes were under the heavy influence and “captivity” of the French crown. While the “Avignon Papacy” is considered a 70-year period of captivity, specific instances of physical imprisonment by kings occur periodically throughout the medieval and early modern periods.”
While many of you are eager for revolution/change you consistently complain that whoever gets power becomes John McCain or “meet the old boss, same as the new boss.” Maybe that’s why Church leaders tend to be more conservative/prefer to keep the devil they know than rock the boat and maybe leap from the frying pan into the fire.
I recently had a sermon by a priest about how our (the US) revolution was so different (better) from the French Revolution. Some priests fought on the side of the Revolution but many more priests and nuns were imprisoned and martyred and the Faith was banned. The sermon was about how some of the priests were imprisoned and starving but used their one crust to say mass. What the priest didn’t seem to realize was that English had forbidden a Catholic from being King in 1689 so Americans didn’t perceive the Church as upholding the King. The other thing didn’t seem to understand was that French Revolution is celebrated in France to this day as “Bastille Day” or how oppressed the French were under the extravagances of Louis XIV and subsequent kings. AI: Financial Crisis and Bankruptcy: France was in a severe financial crisis, partly due to costly wars like the Seven Years’ War and assisting in the American Revolution, causing massive debt and leading to high taxes.
Social Inequality (The Estate System): French society was divided into three estates: the Clergy (First), Nobility (Second), and Commoners (Third). The first two estates enjoyed exemptions from many taxes, while the Third Estate, which comprised over 95% of the population, bore the tax burden….Food Shortages and Famine: Consecutive bad harvests in 1788 and 1789 caused food shortages, skyrocketing bread prices, and widespread famine, leading to unrest among peasants and the urban poor.
Speaking as one who’s been a victim of government and a (small) part of it, I would humbly suggest that it isn’t a necessary evil at all. It is in fact a force of nature, a part of who we are as humans. It is like wind, tides, or fire, it matters little if we approve of them or not because they will still be there.
Destroy all government and a mob forms up with a leader and noble sounding justifications for robbing and killing you.
A rattlesnake isnt evil because it bites you, it is simply doing what comes naturally to it. Fire isnt evil because it burns you, it is simply the nature of the thing.
Evil itself isnt something that can be defeated, evil is the tar baby of the universe, if you try to attack it you end up with tar/evil all over you and the tar/evil is little affected and has in fact spread.
This doesn’t mean it cannot or should not be fought or defended against. But it requires constant thought and planning and effort to do so. You cannot fight the floodwater, but you can build a dike.
Just don’t try to stick a finger in the dike, her bull won’t appreciate it…
“ Destroy all government and a mob forms up with a leader and noble sounding justifications for robbing and killing you.”
Please stop with the low IQ 3rd grade government school propaganda.
There are plenty of places in this country that at this very moment effectively have no government. Police are hours away. There is are no useless mayors such as yourself trying to control your neighbors. There is no zoning and no code enforcement.
We are doing just fine and are not fighting off bands of roving mobs that you conjure up out of your imagination to justify your pathetic role in the forced governance of your fellow man.
What you say is so true, Anon! I live in a such a place as you describe. Essentially no local government. Call the pricks(cops), -which I don’t think anyone around these parts would be stupid enough to do, as everyone is well armed; there is virtually no actual crime; and you’d be forever labeled as some kind of traitor by your neighbors- and it may be 25 minutes before Smokey shows up IF he’s on your side of the county at the time..
I moved here from the northeast, and I can tell you that life here is 1000% better. The quality of life [Such as could not be had in the Northeast unless one is a multimillionaire], the freedom to do what you want on your own land; the absence of so much government coercion; the lack of crime, and ability of one to protect themselves, their family and property; and the more civilized atmosphere that comes from living among happier people who are not perverted as much by government, and who are still part of traditional communities with extended families living within close proximity.
It’s the closest we can come today in this country to anarchy, and it’s GREAT! And the beauty is: Most of the people who would ruin such a place are kept out by the fact that we are far from the amenities of any large cities, and the fact that you have to rely on yourself and actually live like a man, as opposed to being a weasel who manipulates and takes advantage of government systems to get what they want.
Not everyone here may be a good person, but ALL respect your fances and personal space and property, because there is nothing here preventing anyone from having the same weapons as the bad guys- so the bad guys essentially have no power. Ya can’t exercise advantage over someone unless you’re confident that you have a power advantage over them- as in cities, where the “average law-abiding citizen” is rendered defenseless by the government. “Just call the cops after you’re robbed, raped or murdered, and we’ll come out and make a report!”.
What an absolutely stupid, irrelevant attack! Pretending something is not true because it is sometimes possible to avoid the worst of it.
I have news, while you hide from the problem, it is growing. They’re surveillance all our remote areas with satellites and drones. They’ve been able to find baby footprints in coarse gravel from space, as well as listen to conversations in closed rooms from satellites, since the 1970s. They’re tracking weapon and ammo purchases, and rolling out door to door confiscations everywhere communism/statism is strong enough.
So maybe instead of spouting absolutely false rhetoric, learn something about reality. Figure out a way to fight for real liberty. Quit attacking your allies and friends.
“ So maybe instead of spouting absolutely false rhetoric, learn something about reality. ”
“They’ve been able to find baby footprints in coarse gravel from space, as well as listen to conversations in closed rooms from satellites, since the 1970s.”
Hmmm. Are you sure you’re really a mayor spouting off this nonsense? Are you really preaching about learning about reality? Seems that you may be the one not so anchored in reality.
“ Figure out a way to fight for real liberty. Quit attacking your allies and friends.”
You repeatedly write here in support of statism and your belief that you have the right to use zoning, code enforcement, and some sense of moral superiority to dictate what others can or cannot do. This is in no way fighting for real liberty or even remotely associated with libertarianism and the non aggression principle.
Let me assure you mayor Ernie, you are neither a friend nor an ally of those that love freedom and liberty.
You know nothing of vast swaths of this country that operate just fine without busy bodies like you dictating what I may or may not do with my own property.
“ I have news, while you hide from the problem, it is growing.”
You sir are the growing problem. Statism is a festering pox upon this land. You are welcome to call it hiding if you wish. I’ve intentionally chosen to disassociate with folks like you and your belief that you have a right to rule over me and my property. Please stay where you’re at. I’ll stay where I’m at. That is the least violent solution that complies with the NAP.
Oh! So well said, Anon!
This conversation is a textbook illustration of why anyone who advocates liberty/anarchy/voluntaryism/libertarianism must absolutely abstain from voting- because a politician- even a well-meaning one who holds good moral values and ethics, at even the smallest local level of government, can not help himself but to add more legislation and more legal infrastructure which ultimately destroy liberty; which only add to the size and scope of government; and which can just as easily be used for more evil once the legal infrastructure is in place, when others get into office.
Even a well meaning politician adds to the tyranny, with the premise that he is using it for good (For whose good is debatable- for every beneficiary there is also a victim) which ultimately means that he and those who voted for him are doing nothing to fight tyranny, but rather adding to it. (And the only way to fight tyranny is to lessen and destroy government).
But there’s still LAW. Given the isolated nature of where you live FREELY, comes into play not as often as where I live (a suburb of Sacramento, CA), but it’s still there.
Has there ever been actual anarchy in human history?
If it wasn’t western government it was divine monarchy, theocracy, dictatorships, tribalism. The brief flirts with democracy are tempered with slavery, all the way back to the ancient Greeks.
Allowing for the existence of slavery some of the American colonies were close for a few decades (toothless government and lacking an overarching religious societal defacto one) prior to the Revolution and the western expansion of America resembled it in some forms only because any real governing was impossible.
Even in our western expansion post 1865 it wasn’t anarchy as much as vaguely controlled chaotic free-for-all. Anarchy requires people who are willing to allow spontaneous order and mutually respect for each other. The westward manifest destiny as often as not was criminal or opportunistic raiding between settlers and tribes alike.
Ireland was an Anarchy for 1000 years, maybe 3000.
Read the Tain Bo Culainge. My Irish ancestors had a very bloody tribal history just like every other people. Cuchulain drank from the coal black vat of Ol Ngula using the skulls of his enemies. While there wasn’t an Irish state, there was a lot of competing kingdoms/tribes. Which IS as close as people get to anarchy.
A very unappreciated history.
“Has there ever been actual anarchy in human history?”Always has been. Currently, nation states are in a state of anarchy vis a vis each other. There is no governing body with authority to tell them how to relate to each other.
This administration at least said the quiet part out loud — there is no such thing as international law. Whether pulling back the curtain this far is enough for people to get it is an open question. My guess is most people will crave the comfort of imagining there is someone in charge.
Anarchy is lack of higher government but not lack of order.
There must also be some form of individual liberty amongst a voluntarily interactive society for anarchy to function.
Wouldn’t the current world status be more defined as statist tribalism or more probably some form of chaos (e.g. disorder or confusion)?
I’m not talking about the people, though there is quite a little of that, too. For example, if I go on eBay and buy something from a guy in Armenia, and the item I get is not what was advertised, there are no rulers deciding how or even whether to deal with it. He and I are in a state of anarchy with respect to each other. And, weirdly enough, there is a completely voluntary and peaceful exchange, occasionally mediated by eBay, whose only recourse is shunning.
I’m talking specifically about nation-states. Who is the authority to say US and Israel cannot attack Iran? Who enforces it? Obviously, anarchy.
That’s chaos, not anarchy.
If you lack the imposed central authority you have anarchy but would not be disorderly. You have market and social solutions in the form of arbitration or private security or simply spontaneous order based on mutual respect. You won’t have laws but you have social norms and rules. Murder is still murder, theft is still theft. These crimes are still punished by posse and the perpetrator expects this will happen by convention.
Lack of a central authority AND disorder is chaos, the wild west, Mad Max, anything goes. That’s in fact what we have now since the central authorities have no moral or ethical foundation so even if a person doesn’t acknowledge it we’re in a lawless state where those at the top are stealing whatever isn’t bolted down and literally get away with murder.
“That’s chaos, not anarchy.”
I’m assuming you are referring to the nation-state thing? Because what you describe in terms of social solutions is pretty much my eBay example.
We can quibble over definitions, but nothing I described is “chaos”. Whatever it might be, it’s hardly disordered. It is a rather orderly looting of an end-state empire. Relatively speaking.
Treaties and alliances were how states regulated relations between themselves. After WWI they set up the League of Nations followed by the United Nations. Unfortunately, Trump is an anarchist and now that he controls the treasury, the military and nukes of the U.S. he is doing as he pleases. He walked out of the JCPOA. Ignores the constitution. Murders whomever he pleases. Blows up the world’s food, oil and gas supply. Trashes whole countries, the economy, stock market and retirement fund–all while making himself billions. Wow. Got to love anarchy.
“With a little more time, we can easily OPEN THE HORMUZ STRAIT, TAKE THE OIL, & MAKE A FORTUNE. IT WOULD BE A “GUSHER” FOR THE WORLD???” President Donald J. Trump
“Remember when I gave Iran ten days to MAKE A DEAL or OPEN UP THE HORMUZ STRAIT. Time is running out – 48 hours before all Hell will reign down on them. Glory be to GOD (ME)!” – President DONALD J. TRUMP
Queue up that clip, about the mafia taking their baseball bats to the motorcycle gang who trashed their bar.
“Treaties and alliances were how states regulated relations between themselves. “
Yes! Exactly. Voluntarily entering into agreements. There was no ruler beating them over the heads if they didn’t do his bidding.
And, really, you think a man who is regarded as President of the US, and wielding the levers of a megastate is a closet anarchist? He’s closer to libertarian, because they have at least some role for the state, though no one should accuse him of being libertarian.
Just be honest. He’s a statist doing the kinds of things statists do.
I sure dont need that F² pos in my life.
What there is between nations is a BALANCE OF POWER, with alliances and factions thereof. In most situations, to respect each other’s borders, have treaties of extradition, and trade agreements works to mutual benefit.
Far be it for me to agree with a J-O-O, but Michael Weiner, Senior, aka “Michael Savage” is spot-on with his observation that the three main characteristics that define a nation are: borders, language, and CULTURE. I see no issue with any nation amassing a military force, preferably at the citizen militia level where feasible, as does Switzerland, and to a lesser extent, Isra-Hell (Israel), to protect itself. Where that goes awry is when said military doesn’t stay within its borders (aggression), or, WORSE, it’s turned inward upon the citzens its supposed to be composed of and is supposed to protect.
Nothing typifies the latter danger more than today’s LAW ENFORCEMENT in America, very often weaponized by the elites that presume to be in power against the citizens they’re supposed to “Protect and Serve”, especially armed, armored, roided, and tatted-up, ready to “Kick Ass, chew bubble gum, and be outta gum!” This is why 2A is even more important. Individually, even that wholly-unconstitutional National Firearms Act of 1934 were thrown out, and, once again, like a 1921 Ad from the Auto-Ordinance Company (depicting a rancher hosing down some would-be cattle rustlers with his “Chicago Typewriter”), we freely wielded “Tommy Guns” if we so chose (I’d prefer the M3 “Grease Gun” myself, cheaper, lighter, more reliable, and same firepower), like in that Star Trek episode “A Piece of the Action”. FWIW, one of the two *ahem* ladies that accost Bela Oxmyx’s henceman Kalo over failure to render proper “services” (the “services” the “ladies” provide seem rather obvious, even for 1967 American television), who reminds Kalo that they’ve paid their “percentages”, and when Kalo retorts to her to write Bela Oxmyx a letter (of complaint), it was sent back with “postage due”, is Dyanne Thorne, who in 1975 was the title character of “Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS”.
As a college student, I was mightily impressed by the Federalist Papers, a collection of 85 essays written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay under the pseudonym “Publius.”
‘A standing army … in the United States [would be] … twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties.’
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed46.asp
Yeah, right! Lordy, I lapped it up — this speculative, fraudulent horseshit concocted by Big Gov’s
usurpersoriginal gangsters. Now, chastened, I know better.If Pete Hegseth could be awakened from his drunken slumber, he would tell us that the Orange Messiah Donald Trump unites the three branches of government, just like the mysterious three-in-one of the Holy Trinity.
Today in little Israel, the learned elders of Zion gathered at Shabbat services to sing their favorite hymn: Onward Christian Soldiers.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
— Alfred, Lord Tennyson, The Charge of the Light Brigade
It being Easter almost, Donnie Fubar channels the Deity:
“Remember when I gave Iran ten days to MAKE A DEAL or OPEN UP THE HORMUZ STRAIT. Time is running out – 48 hours before all Hell will reign [sic] down on them. Glory be to GOD! President DONALD J. TRUMP”
Dude has completely flaked. 🙁
Lets hope the Orange Emperor doesn’t start dropping nukes if his “boots on the ground” gets lots of soldiers dead, which it absolutely will. Notice how Pete Kegsbreath has replaced all the top Generals who might refuse to commit war crimes with lackeys who will do as they are told, oath to the Constitution be damned. Be nice if Russia did the world a favor by helping their ally Iran and nuking Israhell before the whole world gets Hell rained down.
You do realize that these perfumed princes are where they are because Obama canned every flag officer who would not swear fealty to DIE and all things libtardia, right?
Obama’s been out of office 10 years…Military only serve 20.
And who is it who made the decisions about who becomes the next cadre of flag officers? The ones who swore fealty to politics over Constitution and country, right?
Who is it that makes the decisions? Elected Americans or Mossad Zionist Jews who purchase/blackmail corrupt politicians like Bush, Biden and Trump? The JCPOA protected Israel and protected the world from a nuclear threat. But Israel wants Iran destroyed. And they want U.S. troops to bleed, kill and die for greater Israel.
Also in response to your other comment, Trump is not a “statist.” He makes no treaties or alliances. He makes deals that he doesn’t even keep. He lies. He conducts foreign policy like he is the blackmailed puppet of the Stern/Lehi gang–which indeed he is (and the strain (or syphilis) has brought on senility).
Methinks we are operating under a different definition of “statist”.
I simply mean one who sees the state as the answer to the problem at hand. The degree to which one is a statist is the fraction of such problem/solution pairs one sees. Trump relies on that cudgel constantly. Whether tariffs or foreign policy or whatever, with a few exceptions, he’s constantly invoking the power of the nation-state.
Hundreds of US Marines arrived at Dubai International Airport.
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/104174
For what?
If Donnie Fubar mounts a land invasion of Iran, you will hear my deafening howls of outrage from thousands of miles away.
I pray they don’t and it’s a bargaining chip. Iran can win by not losing and kill a lot of good American boys (and now sadly, girls). And without an interceptor shield the missiles/artillery will continue to rain down.
Oh, listen to this bullshit now!
“Good American boys”?
You mean the mercenaries who who are enforcing the evil agendas of these Satanic pedo politicians and bankers, by doing their killing and destroying for them, for “Israel”; and who are ruining and tyrannizing sovereign nations,and killing innocent people- Nations and people who have done NOTHING to us, but whom we’ve been provoking, invading, and overthrowing their governments for decades.
Disgusting! Let one of these MFers bomb your house and kill your relatives and see if you still refer to them as “good boys and girls”! What are you even doing on a site like this?
No, dumb ass, I mean the neighbor’s 19 year old son who was pure of heart and innocent and bought into the bullshit. I feel sorry for him, as I do for the Iranian defenders brainwashed into fighting for a theocratic regime with expansionist ambitions.
He happens to be the same vicious mercenary you’re talking about.
I simply don’t understand the hatred and vitriol when I express an opinion. This site used to be libertarian, it is trending sharply leftist with unhinged attacks and insults.
Libertarians have arguments, when they degenerate into accusations of satanic pedophilia, fascism, or evil, without supporting argument, then they are no longer accomplishing anything useful in advancing liberty.
Might make an argument that someone fighting in Iran is not deluded in the same way because for them this is existential.
Flip the book back to 1776 and think about the Red Coats vs the American rebels. The British soldier was fighting for a paycheck and a story sold to him by King George. What skin did he really have in the game? Compare that to the Americans. There was an element of fiction sold to be true but by-and-large had we lost a lot of even high up general staff and politicians would have been penniless or hung as traitors.
What choice does the average Iranian they have? It’s real bombs wiping out their homes and towns courtesy of the USG or being shot for treason by a mullah.
“Might make an argument that someone fighting in Iran is not deluded in the same way because for them this is existential.”
I wouldn’t make that argument. It’s only existential to the extent that the Persian chap has a vested interest in keeping a theocracy cum junta in power over the people. Not your typical libertarian argument.
So they have the option to walk away and be left alone, not have their home and work bombed? The non-aggression principle only works nonviolently if the other side doesn’t continue to aggress. If they do it’s morally self defense. NAP or not, you have no obligation to turn the other cheek and keep getting punched. That’s an arbitrary imposition that some religions place and it’s noble but not realistic.
Yes, sure, the Iranian people in theory have/had the option to overthrow their government or walk away en masse from military duty. But so do American soldiers and citizens to not allow the debacle in the first place. Who was the first aggressor here? It was the British really in 1953 that kicked the hornet’s nest in Iran. It goes back further than that to long before there was an America if you draw the line based on the Torah/Bible/Koran triarchic mess.
“So they have the option to walk away and be left alone, not have their home and work bombed?”
Unless they are part of the junta, largely yes. The bombs are not targeting neighborhoods or workplaces, other than weapons industries.
Yes, they have been advised to shelter in place until the junta has been bombed into submission. That’s just prudent. No point in getting a disarmed populace machine-gunned by the Basij.
Did you see the B1 traffic bridge Trump bombed because it was the highest in the world? Have you seen the historical sites U.S. and Israel have bombed? (Iran can’t retaliate because Israel is less than 80 yrs old and has NO historical sites!) The entire city of Tehran was under a black oil cloud when Israel bombed a gas plant there — and everyone said Israel did it on purpose to affect the 10 million CIVILIANS in Iran. The number of lying posts you’re making, you must be gettin’ $7000 each from AIPAC.
Have you not been paying attention. All of of US/Israeli militaries are playing neo-Sherman battles on innocent people. Like the girls school that they triple tapped? The protests in Iran were over economics (because we crashed their economy). The violence was fomented by CIA/Mossad. The Iranian government fixed that problem by disabling Starlink. You need better news sources.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2026/01/no_author/revealed-the-cia-backed-ngos-fueling-the-iran-protests/
Exactly, 4th Anon. Defense is perfectly justified. Signing up to be in the service of evil men by joining an organization which has more than a century’s-long history of doing nothing but evil, and ultimately harming the very country and people one pretends to be defending is no different than serving Hitler or Mao or Stalin.
I’m GLAD that your neighbor’s kid got snuffed. No one who signs up to take orders from these bastards is “pure of heart”. I understood this when I was in elementary school and the Vietnam draft was on, and resolved that I would not be a part of it when came of age, no matter what the consequences. It’s what led me to see that the whole notion of “a free country” was bull, and caused me to starft formulating a libertarian philosophy.
Your neighbor’s kid is one less ‘roided-up cop to kick down doors when he would’ve come back.
Ooops. Second half of my post was obviously meant for Ernie.
“Signing up to be in the service of evil men..”
You mean the Persians? It’s “perfectly justified” to defend tyrants who infringe on the people’s rights, particularly their right to life?
Iran is more of a democracy than Israel. It’s not an apartheid state where the Army and gangs of Jews armed with M16s and Drones burn Arab homes and olive groves, steal their sheep, threaten to rape their 14 year old daughters, and murder them. Has the IRGC gang sodomized any Jews in Iran? How many Jews or other minorities (kurds, Azerbajanis) are in Iranian prisons? Have the Iranians just passed a law to hang any Jew convicted of killing an Iranian while letting Iranians murder Jews? Are Jews not allowed to vote in Iran?
“Some protesters have shouted phrases associated with violence against Arabs, including “May your village burn,” according to Israeli media reports. They have also called Aharish a “whore” and called out her 5-year-old son by name.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/far-right-mobs-have-been-targeting-a-pioneering-arab-israeli-journalist-for-encouraging-arab-israelis-to-vote/ar-AA1XehHK?ocid=msedgntp
But Iran is just so horrible the apartheid state of israel has to set free the Iranian people by bombing and destroying their whole country and roping the U.S. men to kill and die and the American people to pay so the Kushners, Adelsons, Singer, Lutnik, Witkoff, Hegseth, Bush, can get rich by stealing the Iranian people’s oil.
I’m not sure why every discussion has to involve a comparison to Israel, something for which I have very little personal knowledge.
But I do know about Iran’s proxy armies of Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthis. One would think they would deserve at least a passing mention, particularly since the Houthis were unarguably a means of making sure the Saudis were held hostage by Iran’s chokehold on the Straits by building an East-West Pipeline.
“You mean the Persians? It’s “perfectly justified” to defend tyrants who infringe on the people’s rights, particularly their right to life?”
-Steve
Are the Persians defending the their tyrants, or their families, lives and property?
Do they have a standing army when there is no conflict, in which people sign-up and are brainwashed, and give up their individual rights to be used as a blind tool of those who command them, or do they willingly, even as private citizens do what they need to do to defend themselves?
Do they have a beef with their leader or theocracy to which virtually the whole of that society subscribes [when that leader is not someone whom WE installed], or is it we who have a problem with them, because we consider the moral absolutes of their religion “oppressive” because it is not compatible with secular atheistic libtard perversions of morality?
And what business is it of ours? If we and Is-ra-hell would leave them the hell alone (Including by not funding and fortifying their enemies who are desirous of stealing their land and oil) they’d have no beef with us.
FOR ALL READING:
Seeing the views being advocated by so many here, and how much they oppose the libertarian position, even HERE, where some of the best of the best of libertarians post, does it not make you realize that there is no hope of any true shift towards actual liberty among the masses? Because if this is what is being advocated even by many among us (an already tiny minority of a tiny minority of a tiny subgroup of a small subculture), how rare are those who truly “get it” among the masses?
“Seeing the views being advocated by so many here, and how much they oppose the libertarian position…”
Wait. The libertarian position is now unquestioned support for a tyrant who executes women for failing to properly wear a beekeeper costume?
You said Iran was a tyranny. That’s why I compared Iran to Israel. Israel is the tyrant. Once again, Steve, you change your argument. You say the Persians are tyrants. I point out the Israelis are tyrants too–so why aren’t we fighting them? Saudis are just as tyrannical as the Israelis. Hezbollah arose in 1982 after Israel occupied Lebanon. Houthis arose to fight Saudi interference in Yemen. Hamas arose after Israel occupied West Bank and Gaza. All three are local militias who fight against occupation of their countries. They ally together against common enemies–in this case Israel and the U.S. which supplies Israel and is now openly attacking Iran just as it did Iraq at the behest of Israel.
In response to Steve, the libertarian position is not unquestioned support for a tyrant. The actual libertarian position is to not start aggressive wars against a country that has never attacked us. The majority of countries in the world are tyrannies. Should we go to war against all of them? If not, does this constitute unquestioned support for each of these tyrannies?
Another fundamental libertarian position is that it is wrong to commit war crimes and to target civilians and civilian infrastructure in violation of the Geneva Conventions. You seem to rationalize that this is somehow consistent with libertarian principles.
This situation is I think what tripped up Trump. He’s a mental midget generally but has no concept of military history or tactics. His ego wouldn’t allow the Joint Chiefs to explain to him why this was a bad idea. Attack Iran like this is a repeat of Vietnam and Afghanistan. When it’s a person’s home and family what’s he got to lose fighting to the last? What are the options been offered? The status quo under the theocracy or being a vassal state of Israel and bombed “back to the stone age” by a crazy orange man. What does your average Iranian see? It’s 60 years of unquestioned support to one set of the lunatics in the region while giving tacit support to the other set as long as the oil flows.
“The status quo under the theocracy or being a vassal state of Israel and bombed “back to the stone age” by a crazy orange man.”
Maybe. I’m pretty doubtful, as so far, very few such prognostications have come true. Even superstars like Napolitano’s crew have so far completely struck out. To a man, they all predicted that all the US Navy would currently be on the bottom of the ocean. And that was probably true when they served, and maybe even up until a decade or so ago.
Trump has been threatening infrastructure, yes, but you have to keep in mind that is not a “war crime” if the enemy military is also using that infrastructure. But he has not been threatening to bomb their homes.
So it’s Iran’s fault we built our military bases too close to their country? What American or U.S. civilian infrastructure has Iran bombed? I’m more afraid of the IRS and FBI than I am of IRGC on a daily, personal level.
No, it’s Iran’s fault that they are such crappy neighbors that even their “friends” want them gone.
If North Korea were to start arming the Uighurs or Nepalese or really anyone to cause trouble for the Chinese, do you think they would just sit back and take it for 47 fricken years?
Sorry, Steve, but Trump has been bombing their homes. The Ayatollah and all the leaders Trump and the Jews assassinated were in their homes. Their families have been killed and anyone who was living in the same apartment building. They are bombing universities, hospitals (21 last I heard), nuclear power plants and Israel is just waiting for Trump to give the order to bomb their power plants–and salivating for Iran to destroy the gulf states. Israel bombed a desalination plant in the 1st days of the war. Israel was using Where’s Daddy AI to murder Hamas when they went home–to murder their whole families. Sure they are using the same program in Gaza. https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
Israel did to Gaza what U.S. did to Mosul. I heard about this from DDDD–a pilot recently on the show (too lazy go find it) said he spent 6 months (his iraqi tour (?)) destroying the city by bombing it block by block. AI: “The U.S.-led coalition provided air support, intelligence, and advisory roles in the 2016–2017 Battle of Mosul, resulting in the liberation of the city from ISIS but also causing significant destruction to urban infrastructure. U.S. airstrikes helped destroy thousands of buildings, killing over 10,000 civilians during the nine-month campaign.”
The Global War OF Terrorism!
As to what I am doing on a site like this, and why I won’t just go with the flow end let lies and delusions go unanswered, because it’s part of being one of the good guy and fighting the good fight.
There are a couple newer posters who are unhinged, they act like Antifa, screeching invective and attacking dissidents. A couple are too far gone to engage with, so I generally don’t bother. Most of the rest are smart, good folks who I can disagree with and still be a friend.
Perhaps study some classics, like Sun Tzu and Aquinas and Marcus Aurelius, and learn that there is far more to philosophy than the NAP. Perhaps some history, delving into wars and why and how they happen.
Or take the easy route and call me names. I’m on the internet and can’t hurt you. The choice is always yours.
Could you make out any of the patches? They don’t look like Recon, who might travel without proper uniform. Heck, I can’t even be sure it’s the right camo pattern, but it does not look like it. Who has that crappy of a camera on his phone anymore?
Our grandkids are gonna spit on the shit if it returns. Good riddance, grind it up.
Have you read the essays of those who opposed the new government? Now called the Anti-Federalist Papers?
After filling up yesterday morning at $4.44/gal (I had a feeling …), this morning I see that both stations in town are posting $4.69.
Donnie Fubar: ‘I did that.‘
Color me berserk with rage.
Yeah, we’re up to about 3.39 in the upper Midwest. Diesel is insane at about $5.
$6.20/gal for 87 octane Chevron @ a company station ~ 2 mi. from the freeway (SR91) in ZIP code 92882 yesterday. Down $0.04/gal in the past week. Stations freeway close charge more, because they can. ARCO, Sinclair & no brand are cheaper, esp. if you pay cash.
I did not check price of 91 octane or diesel.
Dont do the fill if ya cant pay the bill. .
‘Things would be different – and that would be more than just good.’ — eric
Double-plus good, in fact — just like the increased choco ration!
The anarchism argument posited by Larkin Rose and his acolytes is certainly intriguing but ultimately untenable. There’s a reason why the structure of America’s government has always resembled that of the mother country’s. It’s also why it’s growing ever more monarchical in tone and tenor, namely that authoritarian-style government has always been a big part of white culture (it’s embedded in our cultural DNA).
If the current government collapsed, it would almost immediately be replaced by something very similar to what we have now. Besides, as we learned during the scamdemic, most Americans don’t truly appreciate freedom and will always demand some form of authoritarianism.
The crazy thing is, many people will call out authoritarianism if it’s done by a government official who’s NOT of their political party and cheer it or outright ignore it if it’s done by a government official who IS of their political party.
Absence of western style governments would lead to tribalism / clans, not real anarchy, IMHO. I don’t think most humans could live without any kind of structure. I have nothing to base that on, it’s just a thought.
That’s just it, though. Anarchism allows whatever structure you and your clan want. It would almost certainly remain pure socialism within the family unit, and lesser degrees of socialism as you enlarge the circle out into the community, county, and maybe the size of current states, and something akin to pure capitalism or warlordism as you enlarge it to continent or global scale.
There’s nothing at all antithetical to anarchism with embracing a tribal or clan structure. Just in forcing one to remain in the one he is in or was born into.