More Than Just Your Papers, Please . . .

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

Do we live in a police state?fingerprint lead

What other state forces non-criminals to submit to fingerprinting in order to obtain permission to drive?

Or merely to exist?

The state of Texas does. So do the states of California, Georgia and Colorado. Soon, the entire UnitedState (singular usage, in the interests of editorial accuracy)  is likely to require it. Indeed, already does – under the auspices of the REAL ID Act, passed back in ’05 by the Heimatsicherheitsdeinst.

That’s Homeland Security, in English.

But it amounts to the same thing. heimat pic

Like Clover overtaking a garden, this business is spreading across the land. It’s been pruned here and there – for the moment – but the general trend is depressingly clear. Within a decade, at most, it will probably be impossible – legally – for any person in this country to avoid being fingerprinted. Perhaps also retina scanned and DNA swabbed, for good measure.

Under the USA Patriot Act (gag me – and hopefully gag you, too) the state of Michigan (and other states) requires over-the-road truckers not merely to be fingerprinted but also that they submit to a background check once every four years, if they wish to be able to transport “hazardous” materials. That is, to be able to work. See here.

How does all this make you feel?papers, please


The state will – does – claim that forcing people to queue up like cons and submit to being “inked” is merely (here it comes) for their own good. To protect them against identity fraud and so on. But what has this to do with driving?

Oh. I forget. We do not have a right to drive. That is, to freely travel. We are allowed the conditional privilege to operate motor vehicles which we’re similarly allowed to possess – for awhile – provided we abide by various conditions (and continue to pay the requisite fees). If we wish to travel by motor vehicle, we must accept the state’s terms and conditions. That is the reasoning.

It’s silly reasoning, of course. As well as vicious reasoning.

Vicious, because being (legally) unable to travel freely is a denial of a very basic human right. How is it possible that anyone not entirely asleep at the switch can entertain the idea that he’s a free man if he’s not free to come and go as he pleases, without the state’s permission?SS pic

Silly, because being able to travel via motor vehicle has become a de facto necessity, courtesy of the state. And even if one elects not to drive, one cannot function in this society without a driver’s license. Without an ID – which is what a (cough) “driver’s license” has effectively become. Can you open a bank account without a government-issued ID? Obtain employment (other than as a migrant tomato picker)? Rent an apartment? Buy cold medicine?

You are aware, of course, what will likely happen to you if you get caught walking without ID?

So, this idea that one can opt-out of being fingerprinted by electing not to get the state’s permission to drive is preposterous. It is akin to demanding that people either submit to fingerprinting in order to use a computer (or a telephone) or give up using computers or telephones. No, it’s worse than that. Because it is feasible – though difficult – to live without a computer or a phone. It is not feasible to live without a government ID . . . if you wish to avoid living in a state facility (i.e., jail or prison).Americard pic

Where, of course, you will be issued – and must accept – ID.

And why – and when – did it become the government’s business to “protect” anyone’s identity? Wouldn’t we be better protected if government didn’t force us all to carry ID tags like two-legged cattle? Isn’t it government that has made identity theft not only possible but a ubiquitous problem by forcing everyone on the feed lot to have a number that is tied to everything we are and do? If it were possible to exist and function without one number in particular – the infamous Social Security number (which, some heretics may recall, was “never to be used for purposes of identification”) we’re now forced to present at almost every turn – it would be a whole lot harder to steal anyone’s identity.

It’s quite true that Smith could very easily decide to call himself Jones, if he wished. But it would be less easy for Smith to access Jones’ online bank accounts, because these would not be tied to some number tied around Jones’ neck that, once discovered, would enable Smith to vacuum out Jones’ accounts.

And in any case, we’re not little children . . . are we? If we’re not – if we’re adults – free men and women – our “ID” is no one’s business but ours.

The novelist Robert Heinlein once wrote that a sensible man who values his liberty knows it’s time to move on whenever authorities begin demanding that people carry ID.

One wonders what he’d think about societies that demand citizens submit to fingerprinting in order to be allowed to drive.

Throw it in the Woods?

We depend on you to keep the wheels turning.  If you value alternatives to the MSM, please support independent mediaOur donate button is here.

For those not Pay Pal-inclined, you can mail us at the following:

721 Hummingbird Lane SE
Copper Hill, VA 24079

Share Button


  1. re: Baptists and censorship.

    One concern for voluntarists, is how will we successfully separate the statist impulse from religion? And to what degree and in what way is such a thing possible?

    Shouldn’t the Baptists respect the property rights of television studios. Why do they not hold themselves responsible to creating their own television programming they find appropriate.

    What is it that make them infringe on the property rights of others, while sects like the Amish do not act in this way. Is it merely a case of co-opted leadership, which might easily be remedied by removal of trespassing statist Baptist leaders?

    And how do we get the hands of the statists out of the lives of the Baptists. There are all manner of state impositions into Baptist congregations day to day life that they would seek to be free of, if only they knew how.

    SC Baptist Courier – Supreme Court examines TV nudity, profanity

  2. We’re gonna break out the hats and hooters. When Josie comes home. We’re gonna rev up the motor scooters. When Josie comes home to stay. We’re gonna park in the street. Sleep on the beach and make it. Throw down the jam till the girls say when. Lay down the law and break it. When Josie comes home. – Steely Dan

    Josie’s rape whistle is louder than yours…

    Josie and Dad on Father’s Day

    Wolverines! Josie in the SHTF future Red Dawn

    Josie at Jackalope Freedom Fest

    Josie armed and dangerous

    Josie doppelgänger?: Margaery Tyrell – GOT

  3. Having served 23 years in the military and having a secret security clearance, this kind anal exam was to be expected. My finger prints, DNA and gods knows what is on file with DOD etc. It is what it is. It’s one of the prices I paid to be part of todays military and having served through three war with squabbles in between that.
    No regrets here but don’t like the idea of our elected politicians sending our men and women in harms way while back home the politicians are destroying America brick by brick. Makes one ask whom is the real enemy?

    • Exactly, Matt.

      I wish more Americans would ask themselves who’s assaulting “their freedoms.” Is it OBL, et al? Or the politicians and bureaucrats who constantly croon about how “free” we are while systematically rendering us less free with the passage of each year?

    • I like some of Matt’s take, how-freaking-ever; RE: “No regrets here”

      I wonder why that is? No regrets? None? …Really?

      I have a number of old friends who walked down the same path Matt did.
      I almost did the same.
      My hope is, they have a Ton of regrets. Regrets which turn into a realization of the better kind.

      If it were me who did 23 years in the military, and know what I know now – Whew – I’d have a shit-ton of regrets. Especially after a person considers the answer to the question: “Makes one ask whom is the real enemy?”.

      For those military sorts of fellas, I’d think that smacking your hand onto your forehead once certain realizations were made (an, ‘ah-ha!’ moment) would be known as a General Smedley Butler moment?

  4. I can’t think of anything nice to say about the traitorous normative ethics gruel I see being served here regarding 85 year old Irwin Schiff.

    If you’re in your 80’s and no one is depending on you, then HELL YEAH give them the Schiff. Absolutely give it to the fuckers every bit as hard and as deep as you still can!

    Of course anyone who is of a certain level of wealth, responsibility, or social status is of course excused. And to be left the heck alone already.

    But I’m guessing a lot of you don’t have that much to lose. Stop barking at the messengers, proprietors, and top dogs, take an inventory, and then puzzle out what’s best for yourself.

    9th Circuit Circus Ringleaders decide to continue to keep 85 year old Alt Tax Theorist Schiff in their Circus Cage

    Also, unless you’re userid is Gil, you Aussies should heed Bill Hicks warning: corporatist American shills can’t be trusted. Every thing they say (and sincerely believe) is suspect.

    Revolution keep revolutin. Backer Inners keep backin. The knee jerk fear reflexes are near impossible to unlearn. The mere thought of the mallet striking them where they’re vulnerable. The fear of the unknown multitudes of cages and whips and mantamers. To be dishonorable. To be a crim. Sometimes it takes a few generations.

    The fearmongerer’s Deadly Games. Josie Outlaw.

    • Bill may be the only, ok, Is the only person to make me consider feeling guilty for my beer drinking but not enough to quit. I suspect if he put in days like I do, beer might be his only salvation too. Even the pot smokers I work with(and I’d be one too if I weren’t always subject to getting tested by the Nazi highwaymen of the DOT and the like)need their beer too and I suspect, if it came down to one or the other, they’d go for the strong stuff……beer.

    • Mang. That Josie Outlaw chick is one of the hottest chicks in The World! Could you imagine that video being played in a Jr. High or High School classroom?

      The lights are dimmed. The oxygen is sparse. The scent of glue from new textbooks wayfing through the air…. oh wait, they don;t use textbooks anymore, do they?

      But still,… could you imagine a classroom being shown this video?
      Why, the coed-prision, ‘er I mean, students, might actually learn something and take notice?

      …But, who am I kidding, that ain’t Never gonna happen. Got-damn People Like It when there’s a military boot on their face. …?

      • You seem to be one of the few that truly gets it, Helot. Most here are considering shuffling their preferred group identities around.

        The old cars used to be part of this basket of attributes. The new cars breakdown into these new, usually inferior baskets of attributes.

        I was a republican. Then I was a libertarian. Then I was a minarchist. Then I was an anarcho-capitalist.

        There’s nothing wrong with this. And it is an improvement. I commend them for making it.

        But they never see individuals. Just group identities. They don’t see themselves clearly and distinctly. Instead of knowing themselves, and working on specific aspects. They wish they lived in a different country. They wish they were in a different class. Wish they had a better job identity. A more impressive wealth identity.

        Maybe they’d say that’s whats called having manners. They act this way and treat others this way, because avoiding specifics is a type of courtesy. I don’t know. I like how Stef Molyneux and Larken Rose just speak from their own mind, and don’t waste words agonizing over what groupings everyone and every concept belongs in.
        – – –

        How I lost my girlfriend by not being libertarian

        Adam Kokesh turns to Josie the Outlaw for serious advice, but is interrupted by Christopher Cantwell talking about masturbation.

        • I tried getting through that video, I really did, but I just couldn’t. Cantwell really ruined that discussion halfway through. I’ll be honest that it was somewhat humorous, but it was ridiculous. What could have been a good conversation just had to be ultra-sexualized and filled with tons of foul language just like everything else in this sick society.

          I don’t know. I was raised more conservative*. And while I’ve gotten used to it in some ways, I don’t enjoy hearing a swearword or a sexual reference every ten minutes. I know some people do, and that’s up to them, its not my business. But personally its kind of a pet peeve of mine. I stopped watching about halfway through.

          *Talking about personal morals here NOT political conservatism, which I was raised in but have rejected.

          • Meant 10 SECONDS, not 10 MINUTES, either way sort of works but considering the length of the video “seconds” makes more sense.

          • Hey David,
            I posted that just because Josie Outlaw is in it. I could care less about Adam Kokesh. He sometimes acts courageously, but he never says anything especially memorable.

            Not sure what Cantwell brings to the vid either. Whatever awkward sexual angle he was pursuing, I just ignored, it also wasn’t memorable for me.

            I made a decision that pursuing truth and knowledge sometimes means soldiering thru some fairly unpleasant things. I’m not onboard with any of these new agendas they’re trying to force on everybody, but I have to pursue the sources of new ideas and theories, regardless of the baggage and unwanted side shows they engage in.

            I consider it minarchistic weakness, to require censorship and prohibition to function. There’s a cost benefit to tolerance of course. Attaining knowledge may come at the cost of a corrupted conscience or a tendency to devolve into cognitive dissonance.

            I have my limits as well. If watching the latest Josie Outlaw video included seeing her torturing somebody, I wouldn’t watch. Your threshold for not watching things may differ from mine, and I fully respect that and consider it an instance of YMMV.

            I find Josie interesting to listen to and engaging. Generally women’s brains function differently than mens. For my money, whatever part of individual libertarianism she grasps and can competently discuss, is the part that is real and will be passed on throughout our culture.

            For the most part, men come up with new ideas, and women then choose which ideas are the winners that will be implemented and integrated by them into society. This is just basic mammalian biology at work here.

          • That last paragraph was too funny, and oh so true, Tor.

            At least, in my experience it is.

            “For the most part, men come up with new ideas, and women then choose which ideas are the winners that will be implemented and integrated by them into society. This is just basic mammalian biology at work here.”

          • @Tor- I definitely don’t advocate censorship of any kind. Cantwell and Kokesh have every right to mess around and discuss sexual matters on youtube, I just found it annoying and so stopped watching it.

  5. Jbirdhj:
    If you look closely, it says (body cooperate) which means the car is registered to a company. Vic roads are cracking down on people trying to get out of demerit points by putting it under a company name. Now they just fine absurd amounts with no demerit points, so either the company pays up or they allocate it to a person sending the correct fine with the demerit points

    f4rcical: (aussie clover scum)

    Damn, that is clever. I know plenty of scumbags ranting about fines and I’d love to see them realise that there’s no way out.


    I live near there. Every time I go past it’s like a bloody Christmas tree. Constantly flashing.


    Welcome to Victoria, where morons think that they’re above the law and then complain when they get fined for breaking it.


    Yeah, because mindlessly accepting artificially low set speed limits and driving with your eyes on a speedometer makes you a fantastic driver.

    City of Melbourne, Aus to refund 35,000 parking fines wrongly administered

    $2592 speeding fine on Warrigal Rd near Holmesglen Tafe

    Free classifieds Melbourne

    Wolverine using Melbourne public transport

  6. Kerguelen Island looks to be a French Overseas Territory. Bring enough weapons to defend against the French military(insert joke here) there are a few on the island.

    Population: around 70 in winter, and around 110 in summer. No permanent population; merely a group of military personnel, scientists, officials and support staff.

    Currency: Euro. Calling code +262

    Internet TLD .tf (top level domain)
    [Free State French Southern and Antarctic Lands?]

    10 places with a TLD but almost no people

    It’s about half the size of Connecticut. About 11% larger than Delaware.

    Agricultural activities there are limited to raising sheep (approximately 3,500 Bizet sheep) on Longue Island for consumption by the occupants of the base, as well as small quantities of vegetables in a greenhouse within the immediate vicinity of the main French base.

    There are also feral rabbits and sheep that can be hunted, as well as wild birds.

    There are also some fishing boats and vessels, owned by fishermen on Réunion Island (a department of France approximately 3,500 km/2,300 miles to the north who are licensed to fish within the archipelago’s Exclusive Economic Zone.

    Kerguelen’s climate is considered to be a tundra climate, in which the warmest month averages below 50 °F. Comparable climates include those of Chilean Patagonia or Iceland, as well as the Crozet or Falkland islands.

    The main indigenous animals are insects along with large populations of ocean-going seabirds, seals and penguins.

    The wildlife is particularly vulnerable to introduced species and one problem has been cats. The main island is the home of a well-established feral cat population, descended from ships’ cats. They survive on sea birds and the feral rabbits.

    TAAF – Préfet: Pascal Bolot

    Capital – Port-aux-Françaisçais

    Party at Port-aux-Français

    Kerguelen Islands Vid

    Bravehart freedom speech

    • Tor, I checked out your link. Kergulean Island sounds good on the face of it. Then I put the pencil to it and it wouldn’t fly for me. I don’t think I could cover the cost of a private brewery with necessary ingredients for a year or two.

      Probably the little woman would kill me in that time frame just cause and “just cause” is what she’d probably have since I can argue a point into the ground although I’m better at not doing that now but I’m not sure it helps in the long run.

      My wife is pretty logical as women go, much more than most but still, it’s that two-holer syndrome of wanting to do or not to do something mainly because you hold the opposite view.

      She says I can take a young senorita with me as long as she cleans and cooks but eventually I’d be ganged up on.

      I have serious doubts of being able to have internet there so I’d be bored to death unless I became a seal hunter and that’s not really appealing to me. Oh, kill a few seals you eat and skin for their pelts but I’m not into that thing on a regular basis. Fishing, now we’re talking but I’d need a decently calm bay since the seas there are overtly rough or so it said per your link. Cold, damp weather and I couldn’t eat enough Glucosamine and Chondroitin to hold up.

      Got any other places in mind? I can do warm or even hot all the time. And I can do seasons but not like Alaska where you need the 4 inch suits. I hear taking a leak from one is sorta tough for most and I’d be no exception.

      I have read the Tierra del Fuegoans slept on the ground in zero weather in their birthday suits but I haven’t figure that out yet. Not sure I could convince my body to not freeze as they somehow do(did?).

      Anyway, got any places in mind with a bit nicer climes?

      • I did tell people they would need to bring their own support network if they wanted to try using Kerguelen Island, e.g. a clan. Rough waters are not really a problem there, at the right parts within the peninsulas and archipelagoes, as those provide a great deal of shelter from the genuinely rough conditions in the nearby open ocean. If dodging the (very small) guard force at the French scientific base is too much of a problem even on the more distant parts or the associated islands, try the smaller and more separated but otherwise similar Crozet Islands a lot further west, as those don’t have any permanent base. There are other compromise possibilities available that have slightly better climate and worse independence than those, mostly remote British and French islands or island groups, e.g. inhabited Tristan da Cunha and its uninhabited archipelago, Amsterdam Island with a French base and St. Paul’s Island without one but still monitored and visited from nearby Amsterdam Island. And if a cold climate really is the most important problem, you could try Bir Tawil, which is unclaimed at the moment though it might be at any time.

  7. Funny you should mention In Hoc Signo Vinces. In catlick skewl the football coach, referred to as “the Yedi” smoked Pall Malls non-stop throughout the day. He was like 6’7″ and if you got out of line, you got a smack to the head, whether you were a boy, girl, in a wheelchair and on a respirator, it didn’t matter.

    The slogan on a pack of Pall malls used to be In Hoc Signo Vinces. Not sure if that’s still the case. Glad I escaped the hard icy fists of the Yedi and no longer have to care.

    Pall Mall Slogan

    “Here’s the news: I am going to sue the Brown & Williamson Tobacco Company, manufacturers of Pall Mall cigarettes, for a billion bucks! Starting when I was only twelve years old, I have never chain-smoked anything but unfiltered Pall Malls. And for many years now, right on the package, Brown & Williamson have promised to kill me.
    But I am eighty-two. Thanks a lot, you dirty rats. The last thing I ever wanted was to be alive when the three most powerful people on the whole planet would be named Bush, Dick and Colon.” – Kurt Vonnegut

  8. “Render unto Caesar” is from the synoptic gospels.

    The gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke are referred to as the Synoptic Gospels because they include many of the same stories, often in a similar sequence and in similar wording. The term synoptic comes from the Greek syn, meaning “together”, and optic, meaning “seen”.

    I’ve started my own ministry. I call it the triple tradition. Triplers only profess and adhere to whatever is identically present in all three synoptic gospels. Three heads are better than one.

    Our defining credo?

    Tria sunt meliora quam unum
    Three are better than one

    If you would like to support my ministry, please send your contributions directly to Eric and this website. He is my founding patriarch.

    My most hated rivals and mortal enemies, are the doublers, proponents of the double tradition.

    I am especially enraged by the following apostasy found in doublers doctrines:

    In contrast to the triple tradition, the double tradition material is very differently arranged in the two gospels. Matthew’s lengthy Sermon on the Mount, for example, is paralleled by Luke’s shorter Sermon on the Plain, with the remainder of its content scattered throughout Luke.

    Doesn’t this make your blood boil to even contemplate?

    The war cry during religious wars against the doublers is

    Duo, in infernis arderet! Burn in hell, two!

    The phrase “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” has become a widely quoted summary of the relationship between Christianity and secular authority.

    The original message, came in response to a question of whether it was lawful for Jews to pay taxes to Caesar. It gives rise to multiple possible interpretations about the circumstances under which it is desirable for the Christian to submit to earthly authority.

    What was called for, was responding to the Pharisees tax question trap like a fox. As Machiavelli taught, a prince must learn to act like both the fox and the lion: he must learn, like the fox, how to frighten off wolves and, like the lion, how to recognize the traps.

    Telling the Pharisees to Render unto Caesar was an example of how to recognize a trap, and how to respond like a fox.

    For those who remain bogged down in this history, and are unwilling to imagine how one can render unto others what is due to them in a similar vein, I do not know how to respond. Perhaps: “Just humor me.” It’s easy if you try.

    Imagine – Song by John Lennon (the non-synoptic Beatle)

    If were a Christian comedian, I might say John Lennon sure had a poor imagination didn’t he. And expand from something like that to find more humor.

    Trying to dogmatically tie a bunch of scriptural texts to his song he sold for millions to his record label is just going to put everyone to sleep.

    I mean why couldn’t John imagine his own stuff. Why was he only able to imagine problems with things that already existed. Is prolonged use of drugs really that damaging to the imagination?

  9. Who is most libertarian, adherent to NAP, and self owner?

    1) The self sufficient hermit, or hermit family enclave. He works the land, hunts, gathers, engages in animal husbandry. Builds his own shelter, and such. He is 0% burden. He is 0% interfering. And leaves everyone else 100% alone.

    2) The Amish are currently the most libertarian group in America.

    They don’t contribute much if any revenue to the state. They don’t acknowledge the authority of the state. They don’t recognize the right of the state to exist.

    They mind their own business. They live their own lives and seek to have as little contact as possible with other groups.

    3) Individuals and communes who do the best they can to live outside the state. They sometimes end up contributing to the maintenance of the state for economic reasons. They work towards, but have not yet reach complete state separation and independence.

  10. I can definitely relate to John Oliver:

    Lots of things can be considered emasculating for men in relationships: being forced to watch The Notebook, attending Celine Dion concerts, or taking ballroom dance lessons ala Dancing with the Stars. But for The Daily Show correspondent John Oliver, his chosen form was a bit more meaningful. “It’s the most emasculating thing I could possibly do to go out with someone who has actually done something valuable with their life,” Oliver told People, referring to Kate Norley’s time spent in Iraq as an army medic.

    It obviously hasn’t deterred Oliver too much—now, two years after first meeting at the 2008 Republican National Convention, the twosome is set to walk down the aisle. (Oliver was covering the convention for Jon Stewart, while Norley was there representing the Vets for Freedom organization. A match made in the red states, indeed!)

    The setting for Oliver’s proposal was St. Thomas, The Emmy-winning comedian shared the news saying they never would have moved past the friendship stage had Norley not “seduced” him into a relationship. “I finally made a move,” Norley joked back.

    John Oliver marries Iraq veteran medic Kate Norley

    John Oliver’s Australia & Gun Control’s Aftermath

    Last Week Tonight – with John Oliver

    John Oliver latest at the Guardian

    The decline of the American Empire – CBC

    John Oliver – hard truths comedian

  11. Did anyone see this on the safeguards given for the US military’s nuclear warheads?

    Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Nuclear Weapons (HBO)

    I about laughed my arse off?

  12. Overheard at the Bunkbeds of Buchenwald:
    CaptiveGuy1-who are you voting for in camp guard election

    CaptiveGuy2-Heinrich Pauli

    CaptiveGuy1-Really, I liked his father Reinhard, but I’m not sure about his son Heinrich, I don’t think he has as good of values

    CaptiveGuy2-I hear you but I still believe in the alternate final solution can be better for us than the final solution

    CaptiveGuy1-Reinhard is more complicated, I’ll give you that. I don’t think its so much that he’s a “sellout” as it is that he’s actually a conservative with a few libertarian leanings, not actually a libertarian. I think there’s a lot to like about Reinhard’s alternate final solution, but some things to hate because they’re similar to the final solution.

    CaptiveGuy2-I’ll most likely be in dentures and fillings collection division at the time of the election, and the fact that it this is one of the best positions in the camp means I’m really taking a big chance backing Reinhard, but I consider myself a man of great principles.

    nation state – a PC name for your local holocaust outfit

    What are the official titles and names of your major perpetrators? What’s in you holocaust?

    • I’m not one to scream “Godwin’s Law” every time a comparison to Nazi Germany is made, but I don’t think its applicable here.

      Look, I get the principle of the thing. That freedom is an absolute, and that if you have any ruler at all that you’re “really” a slave. And thus, that you’ve “sold out” or whatever, if you even bother to vote or support someone for political office. I’m even sympathetic. But I think this approach simply ignores reality.

      To paraphrase Murray Rothbard, imagine you are a slave on a plantation. Your master gives you all a choice. Overseer A is a harsh man who will beat you and your children for the slightest of infractions, will work you sixteen hours a day, and will only feed you two meals a day, and only gruel. Overseer B is a gentler man who is not as thrilled with the idea of slavery, though he considers it a “necessary evil.” He requires all his slaves to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. He allows his slaves to do as they wish when they are not working. He provides beds to sleep in and all the food you want*. He does not ever beat his slaves, preferring to punish transgressions with weekend work hours when required. Your master tells you, vote for one of these men to be your overseer, and if you do not, I will pick for you.

      To me, it would be foolish not to vote for B. No, a vote for B is not a vote for freedom, in an absolute sense. But in a relative sense, you are freer under B. You get some free time each weekday, and the entire weekend, rather than having to essentially work, eat, and sleep under the first guy. And you don’t get beaten either. It would be absurd to suggest that a slave who “pulls the lever for B” is actually condoning slavery. Of course total freedom, and as far as I’m concerned the death of the master and both overseers while we’re at it, is ideal. But not being given the choice of total freedom, it is completely sane and rational to choose the second guy, and to do that is not to endorse him or to say that anything but total freedom is ideal.

      Rand (in an analogous sort of way) is kind of like that second guy. Ron strikes me as more the type that is secretly opposed to slavery entirely and is secretly plotting behind the master’s back to help his slaves escape (and even if Ron is really a minarchist, I would say that pure minarchy is “close enough”.)

      *Keep in mind that a slave has his needs provided for him by his master or he doesn’t get them. He cannot earn wages. So, I’m not intending to endorse government welfare through this analogy.

      • I’ve read something similar by Murray in his arguments for what he called the “White Market” and his reasoning for not buying into Agorism and Sam Konklin.

        Konkin on libertarian strategy – M. Rothbard

        “Konkin’s fallacious and unlibertarian rejection of wage labor, however, allows him to do several things.

        It allows him to present a wildly optimistic view of the potential scope of the black market. It also accounts for his curious neglect of the “white market,” and his dismissal of it as unimportant.

        In point of fact, even though the black market is indeed important in Russia, Italy, etc., it is enormously dwarfed in importance by the legal, white market. So the Konkinian vision of black-market institutions growing, defending themselves, and thus becoming the free-market anarchist society of the future collapses on this ground alone.”

        – It’s fine to discuss Konkin and Rothbard. And to pick a winner and give your reasoning.

        But if that’s all you do, I think you’re a failure. This isn’t a political game, or a football game we walk away from and pick a team jersey and buy popcorn and watch a show with athletic performers.

        This is a bloody battle for our lives where one side is pure evil and wants to holocaust all manner of market things I consider necessary to enjoying life.

        The other “team”, “team politics” wants to
        1 eradicate anonymity.
        2 end all anonymous money you hold in your hand.
        3 eliminate whole sectors including tobacco, small arms, and “child trafficking” worldwide ASAP

        – I question your concern for my issues(and all us lovers of laissez faire) and your affection and protectiveness for the free market.

        You (appear to) care mainly for your own theological game to the near total exclusion of all other concerns.

  13. Dear Eric,
    Paper-showing is not going to provide security for the citizens of the Unitedstate, while we have this caliber of military leadership.

    • Hi Linda!

      This whole notion of “providing security” must be rejected in toto. It’s the opening warble of the Tyranny Opera.

      “Security” is the passive voice synonym-in-practice for control.

      And who provides this control?

  14. Who would you has authority in this situation, the female singers? The controlling music cartel? The men playing the instruments in the background?

    I prefer women to be seen. To be scalar. I prefer men to be vectors. To be unseen.

    Babymetal – Catch Me if You Can & Headbanger at Inazuma Rock Festival (turn off sound to better observe)

    I will venture few African females have contributed to any of this. Yet they do many other wonderful things that aren’t this.

    Think of all the men in authority.
    Men built the stage. Design and build instruments, sound system, light system. Men grow crops to feed all in attendance. Men maintain the grounds. Men keep the event secure.

    Both genders made the clothes everyone wears. I don’t know who writes the lyrics and composes the musical harmonies and driving rhythms.

    What of the men who built homes for all you see here at Inazuma? Both genders maintain these homes. Adminster the lives and care for the families who live in these homes. Earn money in the economy to help pay the bills of these homes.

    Who built the transportation devices. And transportation networks to get them here and back to this event. And to everywhere else in their day to day lives?

    How about all the men who wrote the code for this social video sharing platform? And the recording device that capture the footage and sound.

    There are countless good men. That make all these things possible. That make our lives so rich and rewarding.

    Sure there are horrible demons who predate on everyone. Who dictate how things are done and threaten horrible consequences should you disobey them. But these creatures are utterly unimportant.

    They are no more a part of the men, either good or bad, than are the parasites in our digestive tract who outnumber us 10 to 1 on the basis of cell count.

    Perhaps one day I will succumb to all the nameless and unknown micro-organisms who are all around and within me and wish only to take from me, to use me, and to even do lethal harm to me if need be. I pay them no mind.

    They are definitely not in authority, despite the titles they give themselves. Parasites of the body. Parasites of human race. They don’t even rise to the level of a positive existence, as far as I’m concerned.

    – It takes an Agora

  15. DRUNKENNESS (Heb. שִׁכָּרוֹן, shikkaron). – JVL

    references make it clear that, far from being condemned, the use of alcoholic beverages was regarded by Jews and others as a necessary (Ecclus. 39:26; Pritchard, Texts, 598, line 89; 602, line 32) and distinctive (Ps. 104:15; Pritchard, Texts, 77c, line 12ff.) feature of human life. A feast was inconceivable without wine, and Proverbs 9:1ff. speaks of Wisdom personified offering food and wine. Indeed, complete abstinence was associated with a turning away from civilization (Jer. 35; see *Rechabites). Likewise, the *Nazirite avoidance of alcohol is of a piece with their refraining from cutting the hair and from participating in the burial of the dead, two other hallmarks of civilization (Numbers 6). *Wine was valued for bringing joy and banishing sorrow (Judg. 9:13; Ps. 104:15; cf. Pritchard, loc. cit., line 21; Prov. 31:6–7; Eccles. 10:19; Ecclus. 31:27–28; 40:20) and was used cultically in libations (Ex. 30:40–41) and the festive sacral meal (Deut. 14:26).

    Intoxication, however, was deprecated
    (cf. Ecclus. 31:25–31; 39:27), both in the cult – in keeping with the biblical rejection of the Dionysiac element of other ancient religions (Lev. 10:8–11; I Sam. 1:13–16; Ezek. 44:21) – and in daily life.

    Wisdom literature warns that drunkenness brings poverty, woes, quarrels, wounds, strange visions, etc. (Prov. 20:1; 21:17; 23:19–21:29–35; 31:4–5; cf. I Esd. 3:19–24) and causes kings to err in judgment (Prov. 31:4–5; cf. Lev. 10:8–11 (priests); Isa. 28:7 (priest and prophet)).

    Several narratives depict the disgrace and sometimes death of drunkards (Noah, Gen. 9:20–27; Lot, Gen. 19:31–38; Nabal, I Sam. 25:36; Amnon, II Sam. 13:28–29; Elah, I Kings 16:9; Ben-Hadad, I Kings 20:16; Ahasuerus, Esth. 1:10; cf. Holofernes, Judith 13:2)

    In the Talmud

    Basing himself on the fact that the death of Nadab and Abihu is followed by the injunction against priests drinking wine or strong drink when officiating, R. Simeon attributes their death to the fact that they entered the sanctuary while in a state of intoxication (Lev. R. 12:1).

    Judges must not render decisions after drinking wine (Er. 64a). As a result, judges were forbidden to eat dates because of their possible intoxicating effects (Ket. 10b). The judges of the *Sanhedrin had to abstain from wine during the entire hearing of a capital case (Sanh. 5:1; Sanh. 42a). The criterion for drunkenness is whether the person affected is capable of addressing himself properly to a king.

    Modern Times

    Interest in contemporary drinking among Jews stems from the mystery of drinking not being a problem. Writers in many countries during recent centuries have commented on the comparative sobriety of the Jews.

    Multinational statistics of arrests for drunkenness, incidences of alcoholic psychosis, and alcoholic admissions to hospitals have consistently revealed a marked underrepresentation of Jews.

    There was some evidence of greater alcoholic indulgence by Oriental-born Jews in Israel (but not in those of Oriental descent). Asian and African-born male Jews had twice the rate of first admission for alcoholism to mental hospitals than European-born men did.

    Israel-born Jews, of whatever descent, had only a third of the rate of the European-born. The rates in women of all origin groups were negligible. Thus there were no signs at the time of serious alcohol problems developing in Israel.

    However, with the development of a “pub” and “disco” culture among Israeli youth through the 1980s and 1990s and the influx of immigrants from the former Soviet Union with its more marked drinking tradition, not to mention growing disaffection in the economic underbelly of Israeli society, drinking has come to be perceived as more of a problem, though still not reaching the proportions characteristic of other societies.

  16. The ancient Hebrew elite deportees had a lot of nerve smack talking the Babylonians who were kind hosts and providers for them during their captivity. (note: I was raised with Jewish understanding that religious chronicles are living documents open to interpretation and argument)

    It was the Imperial Chaldeans who they had a beef with. This biting of the Babylonian Agora hand that fed them came home to roost when the kind hosts and provider Germans were turned against them by a charismatic puppet of the Bank of International Settlements named Adolf Hitler.

    The Babylonian Exile (597 – 538 BC)

    The Chaldeans, following standard Mesopotamian practice, deported the Jews after they had conquered Jerusalem in 597 BC. The deportations were large, but certainly didn’t involve the entire nation.

    Somewhere around 10,000 people were forced to relocate to the city of Babylon, the capital of the Chaldean empire. In 586 BC, Judah itself ceased to be an independent kingdom, and the earlier deportees found themselves without a homeland, without a state, and without a nation.

    This period, which actually begins in 597 but is traditionally dated at 586, is called the Exile in Jewish history; it ends with an accident in 538 when the Persians overthrow the Chaldeans.

    Some people were better off; when Nebuchadnezzar deported the wealthy citizens, he redistributed the land among the poor. So some people were better off. In addition, there were rivalries between the two groups of Jews. It is clear that the wealthy and professional Jews in Babylon regarded themselves as the true Jewish people.

    The salient feature of the exile, however, was that the Jews were settled in a single place by Nebuchadnezzar. While the Assyrian deportation of Israelites in 722 BC resulted in the complete disappearance of the Israelites, the deported Jews formed their own community in Babylon and retained their religion, practices, and philosophies. Some, it would seem, adopted the Chaldean religion.

    Within the crucible of despair and hopelessness, the Babylonian exiles forged a new national identity and a new religion. The exile was unexplainable; Hebrew history was built on the promise of Yahweh to protect the Hebrews and use them for his purposes in human history. Their defeat and the loss of the land promised to them by Yahweh seemed to imply that their faith in this promise was misplaced.

    From texts such as Lamentations, and Job, written after the exile, as well as many of the Psalms, Hebrew literature takes on a despairing quality.

    The subject of Job is human suffering itself. Undeserving of suffering, Job, an upright man, is made to suffer the worst series of calamities possible because of an arbitrary test.

    When he finally despairs that there is no cosmic justice, the only answer he receives is that humans shouldn’t question God’s will. Many of the psalms written in this period betray an equal hopelessness.

    As the exiles looked back to their Mosaic origins in an effort to revive their original religion. It is most likely that the Torah took its final shape during this period, and that it became the central text of the Jewish faith at this time as well.

    This fervent revival of religious tradition was aided by another accident in history: when Cyrus the Persian conquered Mesopotamia, he allowed the Jews to return home. This was no ordinary event, though. Cyrus sent them home specifically to worship Yahweh—what was once only a kingdom would become a nation of Yahweh.

  17. Rand Paul is #6 most likely person to be selected to win the presidency in 2016.
    Marco Rubio is #2 most likely

    So I drop Rand Paul to the 2nd anarcho candidate and put Marco as 1st.

    These odds are based on money bets, on the market

    I submit you know nothing at all about Rand Paul that is permanent and real.

    He is a political actor, who might tomorrow be packaged as the Green candidate, Communist candidate, Anarchist candidate, or something new, if that’s what the money men and the machine wants him to be.

    Look at how Reagan flip-flopped thru the years. It was all an act. As is every political actor who is allowed to be on the ballot these days.

    The Prince – quotes analyzed

    At this point one may note that men must be either pampered or annihilated.

    People are by nature changeable. It is easy to persuade them about some particular matter, but it is hard to hold them to that persuasion. Hence it is necessary to provide that when they no longer believe, they can be forced to believe.

    A prince must have no other objective, no other thought, nor take up any profession but that of war, its methods and its discipline, for that is the only art expected of a ruler.

    Here a question arises: whether it is better to be loved than feared, or the reverse. The answer is, of course, that it would be best to be both loved and feared. Greater security is found in being feared than in being loved. . . . Love endures by a bond which men, being scoundrels, may break; fear is supported by the dread of pain, which is ever present.

      • “…there is power in self-sacrifice.”
        ― Veronica Roth, Divergent

        “If you stay, I’ll do whatever you want. I’ll quit the band, go with you to New York. But if you need me to go away, I’ll do that, too. I can lose you like that if I don’t lose you today. I’ll let you go. If you stay.”
        ― Gayle Forman, If I Stay

        mainstream mostly statist/poison quotes on dying for another

        If I Stay – Official Trailer

        But generally, love is not self-sacrifice. Love is not about giving up oneself, but expanding oneself. Trade, the exchange of value for value, voluntarily and to mutual benefit, should be the guiding principle of all one’s relationships. This applies to commercial exchange, but also to the trade of non-material values involved in friendship and love.

        Self-sacrifice (which is self-destruction) is inimical to trade and to any benevolent relationship among people. It is part of a nauseating moral attitude that loves death and admires most the martyr.

        better quote (but adapt to your needs) on dying for others

        • Dear Tor,

          “…there is power in self-sacrifice.”
          ― Veronica Roth, Divergent

          The Veronica Roth quote must be understood in context. It does not represent what Roth believes.

          It was spoken by a naive character in her novel, before the character wised up and realized the notion was foolish and mistaken. It was meant to be ironic.

          Roth meant the quote as a “before” instance in the character’s “before” and “after” transformation.

          The film Divergent is an anti-NWO film — as far as I can determine.

          • Dear Bevin

            I read all three books, and enjoyed them. They are important works, that didn’t end any where near as strong as they started. But still wow. She sold them at age 21 while still a student at Northwestern, so far she’s sold 25 million copies.

            That 7 billion people of the earth could all be reclassed as part of a Faction, or Factionless. Is a powerful high concept epistemic device worthy of further development.

            How the book ended up portrayed on the screen is a different matter it appears. The market has spoken and taken away from the film what what it willed from the book.

            I thought with the film being filmed on location in Chicago. That it was really going to be a billion dollar breakthru thing. But it wasn’t, it was 275 million. The subtle concession to make Dauntless even temporarily Heroes That Keep Us Safe was a stinging betrayal as well.

            Veronica is a hardcore self-converted Christian Liberationist. Granddaughter of two Holocaust survivors. Her team that brought her to the screen was a bit too PG-13 for my taste.

            Her writing is freedom lit that can take one’s whole family on a ride that’s quite philosophically deep and well worth the journey. The film, tho very good, but not of the highest caliber which I expected it to be.

            Akiva Goldman is rewriting part 2 for March 2015. He adapted A Beautiful Mind, which I thought was really good. So I remain hopeful.

            Veronica Roth’s ‘Four’ adds up

          • Dear Tor,

            I have not read Roth’s books, yet. I will though. I’ve yet to start reading the Game of Thrones novels, which I bought recently. So it may be a while.

            I can’t speak about Roth’s novel as a whole. But that particular quote, presented on that particular webpage as if it were Roth’s personal conviction, was seriously out of context and highly misleading.

            That of course has nothing to do with you, only with the author of the webpage.

            Glad to hear a superior screenwriter is doing the screen adaptation of Divergent Part 2. Goldsman is a real pro. Party 1 was a pretty decent film that deserves respectful treatment.

            I would venture to say that Divergent is not quite as good as The Hunger Games. But its heart is the right place, and it is good that young people are being exposed to these stories.

            I’ve read all of the novels in The Hunger Games series, and can testify that it is NOT NWO “predictive programming.” It is a classic cautionary tale, a la Brave New World.

            The anti-NWO website Vigilante Citizen does a good job of exposing Illuminati conspiracies. But many readers there have a simplistic understanding of “predictive programming.” They look at any dystopian story, and immediately leap to the conclusion “Aha! More predictive programming!”

            They can’t seem to get it through their heads that “predictive programming” isn’t the only kind of story that depicts dystopian futures.

            Cautionary tales obviously must depict a negative scenario for the future as well. That hardly means it was intended as self-fulfilling prophecy! They must depict a negative outcome in order to warn what might be coming, and prevent it from doing so.

    • I think TOR needs a translator. Intelligence mixed with gibberish mixed with total stupidity.

      Rand Paul is nowhere near an anarchist, I have said as much repeatedly. I think its possible that he could be the next Reagan (Good rhetoric and crappy policy.) I’m not putting my hope in Rand, and I’ve been quite open about having issues with him. I’m just saying I think he’s better than the other options, and that I’ll probably vote for him in the general. At worst its more of the same, at best things get a bit better. I’m not expecting a lot.

      But… Marco? Marco Rubio?

      The man is a complete and total statist.

      Rand is at least advocating restratined statism. Rubio is the next GWB. Which would be even worse than the next Reagan.

      • Things statists repeat ad nauseum:
        1 I’m putting my faith in a politician.
        2 I want a market prohibition instituted in a place where I make no $ transactions, nor perform any related actions like help driving traffic. I make thousands of low-content submissions about my feelings and subjective impressions. I want my team (team Jesus) to win using political means.

        From personal experience: Rand and Marco are the ONLY names women know and recognize as anti-establishment names.

        I read tons of news, and know nearly nothing about Rubio. When the time comes, if they want him they’ll make him sound Libertarian/Anarcho-Capitalist and attractive. Just like Obama came out of nowhere and sounded like a bipartisan visionary democrat/socially liberal.

        Before he was elected, I assumed Obama was a democratic maverick who’d be better than McCain. (though I’m not some deluded captive plantation laborer who votes and thinks picking my next master is going to change my life)

        Futures markets where handicappers place odds related to large segments of the betting public have always outperformed all so called experts.

        Rubio & Rand = “anti-establishment Tea Party senators” says Reason.

        Reason is the #1 most visited libertarian website per Alexa. #1,600 most visited site in US overall. Lewrockwell is #2,200 most visited. Eric’s recent #28,000 is his personal best lately.

        If you want to come here and shill for Jesus, I’m all for it. Just stop appealing to authority and dragging Eric’s name into it. And do it in a way that understands market principles, not in a way that claims expert status and argues from intimidation. And is overly concerned with rigged political horse races.

        The death of Intrade

        If you’ve heard of Intrade, you probably know about the site’s impressive record predicting the outcome of the last several U.S. presidential elections.

        In November 2012, traders at the online prediction market correctly called every state except Florida and Virginia.

        – I’m all for you making a positive impact here and helping free markets and free minds. Otherwise I wouldn’t spend my time poking a Hornet who I believe can still become a carpenter Ant, a honey producing Bee, or otherwise productive member of order Apocrita. Cheers to you and yours.

          • Not any? Then I pity you.

            Try this out.

            Anarcho-capitalism is also know as market anarchism.

            This means both marketism and anarchism.

            Try confining yourself only to marketism until you’ve mastered that.

            Marketism means dealing with your fellow men as you would at a market. You sell them things they want. With those proceeds, you buy things they have that you want.

            What are you selling that any of us are buying? What value do you bring to Eric’s blog. This means things of real economic value.

            Why not become an expert in online forum value production and bring that to this forum. Bring the quid before you ask for the quo.

            Maybe you teach yourself photoshop. You go thru Eric’s articles and comments, and based on them, you create images that include text over pictures.

            You claim to be some kind of expert on Ron Paul. Put this in a single image, a picture worth a thousand words. Over this picture include a caption with a million dollar insight. One you’ve found somewhere. Or one of your own.

            Show us the money. Show us things you think the patrons here would enjoy, willingly see, and happily consume. After you show your wares, watch the others responses, if any, and judge your success or failure accordingly.

            Refrain from any behavior that is not marketism. Marketizing. Marketophile. Marketan.

            If you think I have problems. If you think I am lacking in something or violating something.
            Look how lenient and forgiving Eric is towards me.

            Consider what it means that you are the one being told your past behavior is sometimes unwelcome.

            Consider what I’m allowed to do here. And what you are not. I’d say it’s because I bring a lot of market here. I provide all manner of wares some good and some poor for any to partake in.

            Become a master of the market. This is a valuable message.

            In the market, it matters not who is offering the goods. Only that the goods are wanted and well priced. Only that the goods are considered to have value.

  18. Cool story tionico. Here’s a cooler version.

    Years ago some I learned of some guys who got a ten foot diameter weather balloon, electrolised tap water and collected the hydrogen, then filled the balloon with aluminum foil chaff. They then inflated it with the hydrogen, and attached a length of slow fuse. It was then released. Why they did any of this is none of anyone’s got damn business of course.

    This happened to be near some Serial Killer Clowns who performed at nearby National Security Circus nobody really wanted to exist, but the Clowns were heavily armed and organized bloodthirsty murderers so what could you do.

    The balloon went quite high, such that the burning fuse was no longer visible. Thinking it had extinguished, the guys turned to go about their individual lives and then heard a deep far away WHUMP and caught the large flash as they turned back.

    The mischef-maker psycopath killer clowns at the circus scrambled a handful of F4 jets to investigate the large bogey appearing out of nowhere on their Big Brother monitoring screens.

    This all was at night, of course…. the buzzcut butchers found nothing…. until morning when they did preflight inspections of the jets and noticed shards of the aluminium foil in the blades of the jet engines.

    Seems one of the freemen heard about it from an acquaintance who was one of the assbandit pilots who were scrambled.

    No clue what had happened…… oh well, I suppose the tyrannyboys did appreciate the change from the typical circlejerkings and assrapings with various sodomy devices while watching their collection of third world children snuff porn in HD. 1080p 6 channel dolby of sweet women and children being blown into millions of pieces by dildoinhaling drone operators thousands of miles away from the murder. And milliions of miles away from humanity.

    These flygayboys are an example of supply side tyrannical false economics in action. The junk is invented, put into the war machines, then forced down everyones throats and up their asses. Any dissenters are culled until the only consumers still living and not in cages think they are OK.

    Besides try and find a country to live in without these Chaos Clowns. We’re forced to buy them, and hire personnel, and pay outrageous premium for them and watch them make balloon animals from the dismember limbs of foreigners in spite of their better judgment. Or wish to be left in peace by the warmongering jackbooted thugs.

  19. I used to have a HazMat endorsement on my commercial driving license. Then the stinking feds came along and decided we all had to get a background check to keep it. I’ve got a CPL, and can buy guns with no problem, so my BGC is clean. But the stupid Feds wanted ninety bucks and six weeks to do it. Their check isn’t even as thorough as the NICS check for gun purchases. What gives? Idiots!!! When I buy a gun, it takes a two minute phone call to get cleared through the FBI. but the feds want six weeks, and ninety bucks? I’ll wait till it looks like I’ll NEED the bloody thing. I ain’t payin that sort of bribe. If work requires the HazMat endorsement again, my employer can buy it.

  20. Rand Paul isn’t anarcho-anything. And I’m probably more sympathetic to Rand than most people here. Ron wasn’t even really an anarcho-capitalist unless he was secretly one.

    • You’re so right about Rand Paul, David. I’ve always liked what Ron’s said over the years- even if he’s not a Ana-Cap Lib- but I always wondered how someone who embodies such principles could work/survive in the filthy corrupt system. The fact is, one can’t. Much like Ronald Reagan, who made great speeches, but who did just the opposite of what he said that he stood for, so too I’m afraid many of Ron’s words are just that: words. Rand is nowhere near even as good as Ron; He’s a complete sell-out. The fact is, no one who embodies the principles of individual freedom and who seeks to neuter the tyrannical welfare/police state, could survive within the bowels of the engine of that state; and sadly (and here’s the real problem) they couldn’t even get there/stay there if they spoke the truth and upheld that truth, because the truth is antithetical to the majority of voters./American citizens (and voting non-citizens!). It’s our people who need to change first- and that’s not going to happen- as the Bible shows, Babylon will not fall until the end, when God smites it. Flee Babylon!

      • I think Ron is the real deal, even if he is a minarchist. Nobody’s perfect. And we’d be way more free in a minarchy than we are today.

        Rand is more complicated. I don’t think its so much that he’s a “sellout” as it is that he’s actually a conservative with a few libertarian leanings, not actually a libertarian. I think there’s a lot to like about Rand, but some things to hate to.

        When I’m talking to Republicans, I’m usually positive toward Rand because he is the best likely candidate in the GOP. If one is going to support a Republican, I would say that Rand is a FAR better choice than Cruz or the obvious establishment types. I’d even say that Rand is probably closer to Ron than he is to Ted Cruz. I want those people to be supporting Rand so they won’t be supporting someone else.

        IN the libertarian echo chamber, I’m more harsh on Rand, I feel that some otherwise solid people have given Rand too much slack regarding some of the bad things he’s said. I’d guess Rand is probably about 80% good but there’s some really bad stuff in the other 20%.

        I may or may not vote for him if he’s the GOP nominee. I’ll most likely be in college in Virginia at the time, and the fact that it will be a swing state is a motivation for me to consider backing Rand.

  21. The thing about anarcho christians, is they’re probably a part of a majority in the US if there was an honest system in place where every single thing was up for a vote and there were no politician middleman. And where no one can vote for things that initiate force against another without consent.

    If you can get Rand Paul or Andrew Napolitano in power, and bring about anarcho-christianity, I will happily pay you the same protection money I now pay, in exchange for being otherwise left alone except for murder and abortion, which you’ve made clear you intend to address in some manner of archy or other.

    The minarchists and archists christians could designate liberal and tory/conservative districts thru local zoning and thru regional census designations.

    Were America to go anarcho-christian here is what Paradise NV* might look like in the near future:

    Gays, Heroin, Brothels, all that stuff would be catered to in one major casino or another. And a whole host of other things not to be talked about where mixed ears are present.

    Once in this enclave, anything does go in principle, but probably not in actual practice for everyone.

    I think tourists from anarcho christian, theocratic muslim, liberal, conservative, and other enclaves would be part of some kind of biometric or physical identification scheme.

    So when you drive into New Vegas, you are technically able to do all kinds of hedonistic things not allowed elsewhere. Only no one will serve you if you came up on facial recognition, retinal scan, thumbprint, or other identification system as a citizen of some enclave with a memo of understanding with the Paradise Tourist District.

    New Vegas Babylon Agora Mall

    New Vegas Fountains of Youth Hyperoxygenated Zero Free Radical 300 Year Lifespan Club

    New Vegas No Names No Consequences Nudist Colony

    Say David and his family are on vacation from New Jerusalem and they book some rooms with a casino.

    The terms of the memo of understanding agreement of New Jerusalem and Paradise might be as follows.

    While in the adult tourist district, no anonymous roaming allowed. When in morality free zones, citizens of these enclaves must carry ID at all times.
    Brothel usage permitted for unmarried adults with no minor children.
    Unlimited gambling, smoking, drinking allowed.
    Attendance of all events rated R, X, XX, XXX, and XXXX allowed. 5X thru 10X performances are off limits.
    Marijuana and hard drugs not allowed for anyone still considered likely to become parents and have children who may suffer genetic damaged.
    Abortions, gender alteration, cybernetic, and species changing procedures permitted only as prescribed by a licensed physician of New Jerusalem in good standing.

    *Las Vegas municipal only includes the downtown casinos. All the major casinos are located in Paradise NV.,_Nevada

  22. For far too many, “your papers please” means justify your actions and existence in accordance with the scriptures or else.

    If you say “women can’t teach at your private pulpit, that’s your business.”

    When you say “women can’t teach at any public podium”, now you’re verbally threatening the NAP. Now an investigation is called for. The questions are:

    Are you going to act ethically, taking only permitted steps to discourage women teaching. Only act within your rightful sphere of community property and enclave, but not using aggressive violence against any not in your group.

    If you intend to stop all women from doing this? How do you propose to do so? There doesn’t seem to be any way allowable under natural law and the NAP.

    If you’re going to advocate or discuss means of physical restraint against female strangers who want nothing to do with you, it would seem you are gravely in violation of NAP and therefore not welcome among those who expect you to adhere to the NAP.

    Turkish women defy tyrant with laughter

    40 Principal Doctrines – Epicurus (born 341 BC)

    Epicurus is perhaps the earliest Western/JudeoChristianMuslim proponent of the NAP. Perhaps better referred to as a proto-NAP.

    A blessed and indestructible being has no trouble himself and brings no trouble upon any other being; so he is free from anger and partiality, for all such things imply weakness.

    It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and honorably and justly, and it is impossible to live wisely and honorably and justly without living pleasantly. Whenever any one of these is lacking, when, for instance, the man is not able to live wisely, though he lives honorably and justly, it is impossible for him to live a pleasant life.

    In order to obtain protection from other men, any means for attaining this end is a natural good.

    Protection from other men, secured to some extent by the power to expel and by material prosperity, in its purest form comes from a quiet life withdrawn from the multitude.

    He who understands the limits of life knows that it is easy to obtain that which removes the pain of want and makes the whole of life complete and perfect. Thus he has no longer any need of things which involve struggle.

    Natural justice is a pledge of reciprocal benefit, to prevent one man from harming or being harmed by another.

    The man who best knows how to meet external threats makes into one family all the creatures he can; and those he can not, he at any rate does not treat as aliens; and where he finds even this impossible, he avoids all dealings, and, so far as is advantageous, excludes them from his life.

    Those who possess the power to defend themselves against threats by their neighbors, being thus in possession of the surest guarantee of security, live the most pleasant life with one another; and their enjoyment of the fullest intimacy is such that if one of them dies prematurely, the others do not lament his death as though it called for pity.

    • Nah, Tor, I am clearly speaking of women within the context of a voluntary/private assembly. It’s kind of like abortion: I believe abortion is wrong; none under my sphere of dominion would ever have one, but in the world (public) I think anyone who wants one, should have one. I would encourage them to have one (Just don’t take my shekels to pay for ’em!). You know these groups that picket abortion clinics? I think I’m going to go to the projects or bars or wherever else low-lifes congregate, and walk around with a sign saying “Please have an abortion!”. Let unbelievers do what they want and reap the consequences thereof. I’d rather live in a free society where we can all live our consciences before God (even in the case of men whose god is their own mind) than in a theocracy ruled by men, which is no different than what we have now- just with different men and different rules. There is coming a day when God Himself will rule this Earth…until then, let us be as free as possible, so that in the end, we can all say that we lived our consciences- be we right or wrong- and that our actions were our own, and not in service to/in fear of the false god of the state.

      • Thanks Mole,
        I hate bringing this kind of stuff up, and I fully agree we’re all having a state religion shoved down our throats whether we like it or not.

        It’s a work in progress learning to tread more lightly and intelligently, though continuing to carry a big schtick.

        I don’t mean any of this as a bone of contention among anyone who considers themselves freedom folk.

        I wouldn’t dream of evaluating your beliefs and practices, whatever they are. Even if in great contrast to my own. Like say cutting the tip of the tongue off any woman who willfully and with malice aforethought broke this established societal taboo.

        So long as the woman in question wasn’t imprisoned in your enclave against her will, and knew in advance how things worked. Your customs and culture are your concerns, period.

        I also don’t mean to mock scriptures or make any kind of comment on their content or validity. Only to communicate their being limited in effect to those who voluntarily accept their authority or live in enclaves by those who command their authority.

        As an adherent of natural law, my personal belief is the creator’s word is already omnipresent in every molecule, being, and principle of his creation.

        This entity that I perceive to exist, doesn’t speak with the tongues of men. He speaks through atoms, cells, and universal principles.

        He has placed no mere physical written object or artificial social institution as as an intermediary I must answer to. I am governed by the operation and purpose of his created physical universe that is all around me and even within me.

        Herr Pastor Neil Degrasse Tyson – Deeper Deeper Deeper Still

        The Sacred Water bears – Tardigrades. Survivor of 5 extinction events, see Ursa Aqua Minor, Ursa Aqua Major, Polaris, North Star Axis.

        • Tor,

          I don’t know about “Natural Law”- because in essence, if one followed it to it’s logical conclusion, it could justify murder and theft and force. I tend to come to a similar conclusion as the Founders of the US: That God has given us certain inalienable rights. While God keeps a covenantal law relationship with His people (be they Ancient Israel [NOT modern Isra-hell!] or modern Gentile believers), He takes a libertarian approach with the world at large. He may not be pleased with what the world does; and as a result, does not offer them the reward that believer/practitioners of His law will receive- but He does let them be- as opposed to forcing them to behave a certain way or raining down fire on them, etc.

          I get so sick of hearing 99.8% of Christian preachers say that “God is the author of the state”! Men are the authors of the state, because they reject the libertarianism God offers them presently; and even His own people rejected His direct rule, and preferred to have men rule over them “like the nations” (1 Samuel, chap. 8)

          But I think despite our differences, we can agree that it would be preferable to be free to practice our beliefs, than to have others impose some quasi belief-system upon us- because in the end, call it secular or religious or whatever, it all amounts to the same thing. I’d rather have no law and the ability to defend myself and my property, than a law which may prevent me from doing so and even punish me for the same.


          Glad we can agree on a lot!

          Think about the subject of abortion for the heathen though: God even says that He will destroy the children of the wicked/”rip-up the woman with child”- so what if the wicked do it themselves? Would you really want someone who would kill their own child to be forced to be a parent? (Or for the welfare state to be perpetuated, to support all those unwanted kids, who would be abandoned/or whose dysfunctional parent could not care for them? Or to have to deal with the crimes that the children of such people invariably commit when they get older?

          Think: God never set forth any law to deal with the care/destruction of one’s own children. Sure, it is wrong and evil- but hwere has God ever decreed that we have a right to intervene for what a parent does? Just like drunkeness is wrong, but God never gave us the right to punish people for getting drunk. Some things- like an evil person ripping the baby from their own womb, are just not for us to meddle with, even though they are wrong- and living in this police-state USA, I now see why- because sometimes you have to tolerate certain evils, in order to uphold the freedom of the good. (I know of a certain half-breed Kenyan whose white mother would have been doing us all a favor by having an abortion! :D)

          • I have a lot of common ground mixed with serious disagreement with your post. I’m going to take this one step at a time and hopefully have an interesting debate.

            First of all, and hear me out here, I would say that there is a sense in which God ordains the State. Not because the State itself is good (it is most certainly not, your 1 Samuel 8 reference is an excellent one to prove this, Deuteronomy 17:14-20 forbids statism as well since it holds kings to God’s law, and the State is a monopoly on crime). But because I believe God ordains everything that occurs, not that he causes evil, but that he actively chooses not to restrain certain evils in order to fulfill some purpose. And, in cultural context, I think this is the purpose of Romans 13:1. The recipients of that letter knew the Roman State was evil and felt crushed by its oppression. Paul was encouraging the believers by telling them that the oppression they suffered was part of God’s plan and that God would work it together for good. I understand that this isn’t the “face value” reading of the text, but I think the preceeeding verses in Romans 12, combined with the fact that Paul couldn’t openly say “The Romans are evil and corrupt” without getting himself and everyone in the church arrested, support this interpretation.

            Next I’ll tackle abortion, and I know its complicated. I’m not going to debate this with the entire site here because we’ve done it before. I’m going to focus specifically on what you are saying here, which seems to be that abortion should be permitted despite the fact that human life begins at conception. In other words, I’m going to assume for the sake of this discussion that killing a child in the womb is in fact murder. You seem like you would agree with this.

            First of all, you say that there is no Biblical law against killing one’s child. This is blatantly untrue. The Old Testament makes death the penalty for murder. Now, I want to be clear here: I’m not a theonomic reconstructionist. I think the Old Testament penal law was made strictly for Israel alone. So, I am certainly not advocating the Old Testament laws regarding homosexuality, adultery, or witchcraft being brought back. But, I have two things to say about murder:

            First of all, unlike homosexuality, adultery, or witchcraft (I know there are other examples, but I picked three to make a point) murder includes a victim against which physical violence has been used. And second of all, the death penalty against murder didn’t originate with Moses, it originated with Noah. So, that tells me that that law was meant for all humanity. Now, I understand that the US Justice System cannot be trusted, and that anti-abortion laws could easily be used to create a police state. So I’m not implementing doing a full 180 and making abortion a capital offense NOW. But, I think we need to understand abortion for what it really is. Its not a victimless crime like drug use or prostitution.

            I do want to add one other bit here: the government is NOT netural on abortion. If the government was neutral, not only would it refuse to fund abortions, but it would refuse to use its cops to protect abortion doctors. Scott Roeder is in jail right now for exercising vigilante justice (I refuse to call it “murder”, because it wasn’t) against the murderous scumbag George Tiller. Now, I’m not advocating shooting abortion doctors, but Tiller was not an innocent man. If the government was truly neutral on this matter, it would have allowed Roeder to avenge those that Tiller killed just as much as it allowed Tiller to kill. It did not. The government gave Tiller a license to kill, and protected him when someone tried to put a stop to it. This is not neutrality.

            Regarding welfare… two things. First of all, if our economy was free market, everyone would be a lot wealthier. So, those who are really doing it because they think they are too poor to be able to raise a child would be rarer. Second of all, adoption is an option for couples considering abortion, so its not as simple as “force them to be a parent.”

            And… do you think infanticide should be “legal”? Do you think it should be legal for my parents to kill my 12 year old brother? Should parents who starve their kids be legally liable? (I say yes, and I think Rothbard’s “no” answer was an awful black spot on an otherwise excellent philosopher.)

            So, I think the whole “I’m pro-choice on everything” line really misses the mark. Its great when we’re talking about buying a machine gun, shooting heroin, having gay sex, or any number of millions of other controversial activities where the only supposed victim is “society.” But when we’re talking about abortion, I think we have a very real victim and that victim isn’t “society.”

            Now, I’ll respond to your assertion that it would have been better off had Obama been aborted. I disagree. I certainly believe that he’s a mass murderer who deserves death, and I don’t see how any libertarian could disagree with that statement unless they just plain believe the death penalty is wrong period. But, when Obama was in the womb, it was impossible for anyone but God to know what his life would ultimately turn out as. Pre-emptive action against someone because they might do something bad in the future is always wrong, whether its having 4th amendment violating street checkpoints to check for drunk drivers, confiscating guns because the person might potentially shoot people in the future, or aborting a child in the womb because they just might be the next Adolf Hitler.

            I have a lot of bones to pick with the “religious right.” I want nothing to do with their big government agenda. In fact, I don’t want “government” in the traditional sense at all. But, I do believe in law. Not like the “law and order” crowd, but actual laws, enforced on the free market, against NAP violations. All NAP violations. Including murdering one’s own child in the womb.

            The last comment I wanted to make was the comparison between abortion and drunkenness, and I just want to drive this point home: Drunkenness has no victim per say. Now, obviously, drunkenness CAN result in activities with real victims, but it doesn’t have to. Abortion is a murderous act that ALWAYS has a victim. A better comparison would be abortion VS beating your child (and no, I’m not talking about “spanking”, I’m talking about actually beating your child with a whip, or something like that). THat’s an action that always has a victim. If you’re watching something like that happen, you have a right to stop it, and if you’re aware of it, you have the right to call the police (although, obviously, US cops can’t be trusted, so I recommend caution when it comes to actually doing so) just like you would if someone assaulted you.

          • Moleman,
            Your posts always make me smile. A lot of them were laugh out loud funny.

            Your writing style ticks all the boxes and when your message ended for me, and you began addressing David, I didn’t feel the need to read further.

            I understand you and am on board with your response to this new American reality of “moral diversity” or whatever term one wants to give the former melting pot now being morphed into a pressure cooker.

            I trust you and am comfortable with your beliefs being different. Should they even be so.

            You seem to advocate class theory from an objective standard of moral wealth and moral poverty.

            You want to be left alone to live among peers who likewise consider themselves to be of high moral character and blessed with spiritual wealth.

            And you hope to prosper and your numbers increase.

            Those you consider spiritually impoverished, you wish not to made to associate with, nor be forced to assist.

            You feel that those who fail morally, in general, also fail financially as well. The more their numbers decrease, the better it is for you all things being equal.

            That completely makes sense to me, and seems eminently reasonable and rational.

            In todays America, who one perceives as one’s moral peers may be the most important personal attribute of all.

          • David wrote on August 1, 2014 at 1:15 am:-

            First of all, unlike homosexuality, adultery, or witchcraft (I know there are other examples, but I picked three to make a point) murder includes a victim against which physical violence has been used.

            Actually, under the understanding of the day, witchcraft did have victims; Bertrand Russell actually brings this out in one of his essays, pointing out that if you genuinely believe that someone is using mysterious powers to ruin crops, maim cattle, cause miscarriages and so on, then it is perfectly rational to treat that person as a public enemy – the failure of reasoning lay elsewhere. Likewise adultery was a threat to the heirs of inherited property, and (for Jews, at least) homosexuality both came under the same public health area as mixing foods that didn’t go together and under the bans on pagan religions which had it in their practices, e.g. the “pay of a dog” for male temple prostitution (so it was related to the general threat from pagans, and also to witchcraft – see above).

            And second of all, the death penalty against murder didn’t originate with Moses, it originated with Noah. So, that tells me that that law was meant for all humanity.

            Ah, but the Jews read that as only making the Noahide Law universal, not the Mosaic Law (google it). Indeed, some rabbinical authorities believe that it is wrong for gentiles to follow certain parts of the Mosaic Law. You cannot take the death penalty rules from the Mosaic Law and read it as universal because of Noah, you can only take what is prescribed for that from the Noahide Law – and that is far less detailed and explicit than, say, the Ten Commandments and the passages of law relating to that.

      • I think I agree with you a lot more than not. I’m an anarcho-capitalist/voluntarist as I expect you are.

        In general I have a “let unbelievers do what they’re going to do” attitude just like you do. If an unbeliever wants to hire a prostitute, or shoot heroin, or get into a gay relationship, its not my business even though I believe all of these activities are harmful.

        I think abortion is somewhat different because there’s an innocent victim. George Tiller was a lot more similar to Adolf Hitler than to a heroin junkie who minds his own business.

        I don’t think murder should be legal, although, as I said, I think ultimately law enforcement should be provided by the free market and not the State.

  23. I’m sorry to hear about your eyes Jean. I’m not sorry no one has trained you to be a cold blooded killer for hire.

    What about joining a 1% MC club. There’s lots of other opportunities to be a bad ass I think. They mainly work in low quality methamphetamines I believe. Or be a mule or a mule supervisor and help the cartels move all that weight. Get your own poppies from Amazon. Plant them and start your own opium business.

    Be a hard money lender, personally collect on bad debts by any means necessary. Be a bail bondsmen. Find some abandoned property. Break in and be a squatter. Then start your own fight club there.

    Start in the mortuary business at the bottom. Of borrow some money and buy your way in.

    Work in a slaughterhouse. Work on a ranch. Get an AR 15 with a sound suppressor and become a wildcat subsistence hunter. Move to Alaska. Work in seafood processing on a boat or land. Move to the Dakotas. Be a roughneck.

    Move to Colorado, there’s legal weed now, the use of force might be in flux there as well. Or move to Washington, there just beginning the experiment with legal weed.

    Work in sewage treatment. Garbage collection and processing.

    Get a high quality rod and reel and go fishing at government asset depots. You see them everywhere, hundreds of buses and other trinkets of the state. Surrounded by a fence. Catch something with your rod, reel it up to the fence and then pull it over.

    Make a few friends at Home Depot, and start your own burglary and other small crimes outfit. Make sure to rob the state and those who work for the state. Cut a few corners on the NAP and be a Robin Hood.

    I know the feeling of rage piled on top of rage. And maybe there is an effective way to respond and take action on it, I’m not an authority on anything by any means.

    Inside Black Bloc Activities

  24. Raised in a home where obedience was beat into me it is difficult even at 57 to disobey a “lawful order”. The other day I used a shortcut from my apartment complex to go to a CVS. Up beside me drove a Tampa cop. He asked if I was coming from said complex and wanted my particulars. After supplying him my name, etc. he told me that there are a lot of wanted felons living at the apartment complex as well as some criminal activities. I have no criminal history. It was an automatic reaction to answer his questions. I am terrified to say no to a cop because of their “power”. I wonder how many other people in the US understand what cops can and cannot do but are frightened to stand up to them. Keep educating us Mr. Peters!

    • G’day Hapless. About 5 years ago I would have done the identical thing. Submit and obey. Now that I know more about common law and that Statutes are always subservient to it, my fear has subsided markedly.

      This in part may be due to me living in Oz, where cops rarely pull a gun. In any case, jump onto youtube and watch Bill Turner’s videos on rights. Although he’s a Kiwi (New Zealander), what he teaches is applicable to all common law countries, such as Oz, NZ, Canada, US etc. I’ll list them here so they’re easier to find:

      The Law And You
      Banking Demystified
      Stamp Duty
      Who Am I
      What’s In A Name
      Born Identity
      Invisible Chains
      Breaking The Invisible Chains
      Know Your Rights
      Don’t Get Court
      Breaking Presumptions
      Courtroom Procedures
      Courtroom Procedures 2
      Tricks Of The Trade

      The info in these vids is invaluable. Notably, your Bill of Rights and Constitutional amendments make it far easier for you to uphold your rights, contrary to Oz where our Bill of Rights from 1688 is buried in the murk of time, inheritance from England and not directly connected to our Constitution, but is still valid nonetheless.

      Enjoy this site. Eric attracts the company of those suffering the blight of a higher IQ than most.. 🙂

      • The problem here in the U.S. is that the thugs do not obey their own laws and regulations, let alone recognize the common law.

        Cops are pretty much hopeless, any such battle has to be fought in the courts. Plusbig problem is that the laughably-misnamed “justice” system operates for its own benefit and to protect the State. Your rights may be given lip service but in the end will not be an impediment to the King’s Men having their sport with the peasants.

        I’ve seen time and time again for myself judges ignoring the law to protect their irretrievably entrenched and corrupt system — even to the extent of a judge blatantly stating that “The Constitution is not a defense in this courtroom.”

        The only place you have any real power is on the jury, where one person can bring the entire massive, crushing machinery of the State to a grinding halt. I would love to be a juror on a case where I could stick it to the persecutors by simply kicking back and saying “I’m not convinced of the defendant’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.”

        • Dear Jason,

          “The problem here in the U.S. is that the thugs do not obey their own laws and regulations, let alone recognize the common law. ”

          A very modest claim. A very true claim.

          In fact, this is a universal problem. A current Democratic Progressive Party presidential candidate for 2016, is a woman named Tsai Ing-wen.

          When she was Vice Premier, she arranged for government (taxpayer) subsidies for the biochemical industry. Several months after she stepped down, she became the head of her family’s biochemical industry firm, and raked in the massive subsidies she pre-positioned for herself while she was Vice Premier. All “legal.” Can’t be prosecuted for it. Conforms strictly to the letter of the law.

          Basically, yet another case of “I’m allowed to rob you.”

          There simply is no alternative. The myth of authority must be utterly discredited and repudiated. Otherwise ordinary people will never be free.

          • The prospect of Hillary is chilling. I believe that – unlike Obama, who is just an opportunistic empty suit – Hillary, like The Chimp, is a clinical psychopath. Cue the Emperor from Star Wars: You can feel her anger… her coldness… her almost-sexual lust to control and dominate.

            As such, she is extremely dangerous.

        • Jason;

          “The Constitution is not a defense in this courtroom.”

          Same problem all over the world, where Statute tries to rule over Constitution and common law. Bill Turner’s vids show how to get around that and bash it up their arse. I’ve had magistrates openly lie to me and everyone in court, where I called them out on it:

          “Your honour, with all due respect, is that a lie?”

          (aghast) “No.”

          “Again your honour, with all due respect, is that another one?”

          “No! I warn your Mr. XXX, you’re disrupting the court. Any further disruption and I will have you removed.”

          “In that case your honour, section 72 states precisely opposite of your claim. I have a copy here for anyone’s perusal..”

          Naturally, the case was quickly dismissed. I use the same tactic on cops. Once they’re caught deep in several of their lies, I note to them that they’re being recorded. Often they can’t say “get out of here” fast enough.

  25. How do we defeat the state? Here’s how: simple, just walk away.

    “Erik Garcés writes, What protesting is, or any other collective action, is ultimately an act of insanity. Because as Einstein described it, repeating a task and expecting a different result each time is an act of insanity. History has proven conclusively that each and every method which has been tried against the State, and by extension the money power elite who own the world, has FAILED.”

      • Dear Joe,

        I’m pretty sure “walk away” is a figure of speech.

        Fred can correct me if I misread his intent. But since he cited Wendy McElroy, a high profile voluntaryist, I take it he means “repudiate the myth of authority altogether.”

        In any event, that is the only real solution.

        Revolutions merely replace one authority for another. Whether revolutionaries are aware of it or not, revolutions are predicated on a false premise. That premise is that the new authority will be better than the old one.

        But the real problem is the belief in authority per se. That belief leads to “Throw out the old rascals, bring in the new rascals. Then everything will be better.” That insane belief in Obamanian “change you can believe in” is what must be rejected at the outset.

        That requires the conversion of a critical mass of society to the total freedom of voluntaryism. That requires an internal change in thinking, not an external change in regimes.

        This prescription makes self-styled “men of action” unhappy. They are eager to “do something.” But promulgating a change in thinking is the only something they can do that will lead to real change. Sorry guys.

        • Agreed Bevin;

          That insane belief in Obamanian “change you can believe in”

          I require evidence before I foster a belief. If Knobummer can foist “belief” in people simply by using a slogan that makes no sense, it stands as testament to his voter’s (mouth breathers) lack of IQ.

          I can only hope for all your sakes that your country never makes the same mistake again. Although with this turd, it’s already been done twice.

          • ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N ,

            The left foot kicks, the right foot kicks… It’s been done more than twice. The difference now is that we have a critical mass of a class of voters that are motivated enough to vote for their next paycheck but not motivated enough to get a job.

            – Joe

        • Hello Bevin,

          I’m reasonably certain Fred meant to remove his consent. I’ve been enough places to have seen that humanity is not ready for the change of thinking you are describing and may never be. But the reality of the situation is there is nowhere to go, only to stand and fight when fate decrees. A revolution is at it’s best a reset, a short reprieve that is drenched in blood from its conception until well after it’s ending. I harbor no illusions about the outcome. The best I hope for is that if there is a revolution that I and the ones I hold dear come out the other side whole and in good health.

          I’ll depart to sleep with an old phrase I was just reminded of:
          There are old soldiers and bold soldiers. But no old, bold soldiers.

          – Joe

          • Joe,
            Half tongue-in-cheek, and with the caveat I couldn’t enlist (Medical reasons – eyes): Who wants to live to be old… feeble…. Trying desperately to make it to the toilet before you soil yourself?

            I guess I have the right mindset for military life, as I’ve got a soft spot for military mottos.
            “The only easy day – Was yesterday.” (Marines, IIRC)
            “Incoming fire has the right of way.” -Murphy’s laws of combat
            “Most dangerous things in the military: […] 2nd Lieutenant saying, “Follow me.” ” (Closely followed by a Sergeant saying, “Trust me.” )

            As you note, Old soldiers, Bold soldiers; no Old & Bold soldiers. No guts, no glory. Glory often comes at cost of life and limb. Accept it and move on (not a personal comment, just in general.) After all, faint heart never won fair lady. 😉

            The dangerous thing is the old-ish soldier who’s learned his trade well, and is still young enough to be bold when required. 😉
            He’s learned his way around. Much of American film is predicated on this, notably the Rambo series and a personal favorite, “Soldier” with Kurt Douglas. soldier, notably, followed similar concepts from Vietnam (and any insurgency-fighting aprroach.)

            I believe that’s where we are. We need to be insurgents, and leave (have) no trace at the same time. Whether we are talking open actions, or passive support, or just educating (to create the former two) is irrelevant.
            The problem is, we’re getting people who wish to remain part of the herd – an old farm parable (there’s Animal Farm, but also one about the farmer not defending the sheep – and when the sheep dare defend themselves, the farmer kills those who would protect the flock. But all the sheep knew that things were worse on the other farms…)
            Human animals find it “safest” to be part of the herd/flock/school. The idea of it (in predation terms) is that the school scatters, and the predator can’t get EVERYONE – and might in fact get no one, because everyone’s moving differently, erratically, etc.
            It ensures the SPECIES survives – which most people see as, “This ensures _I_ survive!” Somehow, their feeble simian brain cannot comprehend that the HERD’s survival is not the same as the INDIVIDUAL’s survival. The school survives the shark attack because the shark got enough to eat…. But Tom, Dick, Harry, Sue, Sally, Mary, Eunice, Maria, Chuck, Tony, and Honey Boo-boo are all eaten… The School Survives. (stiff upper lip now….)

            I’d rather not live to complain (more) about what’s aching and creaking and popping and groaning and tight and bruised (etc) this morning.
            I didn’t do anything in my younger years, I was taught to be a shadow, a ghost (learned helplessness, essentially.) Never stick out = never get beaten. But it went to even avoiding sports, avoiding exhibition (E.G., acting)…
            I’d like to do something with my life while I still can.

            And since we all gotta die sometime, I might as well try to die with some meaning.
            Dying old and broken is no better than dying in combat – and may be worse. My take, anyway.

            That doesn’t mean I’m in a hurry to get there! 😉

  26. Wikipedia describes how, when in 1950 Clarence Henry Willcock objected to British National Identity Cards being continued even after the wartime emergency, the judge lambasted it even though he had to uphold it:-

    This Act was passed for security purposes, and not for the purposes for which, apparently, it is now sought to be used. To use Acts of Parliament, passed for particular purposes during war, in times when the war is past, except that technically a state of war exists, tends to turn law-abiding subjects into lawbreakers, which is a most undesirable state of affairs. Further, in this country we have always prided ourselves on the good feeling that exists between the police and the public and such action tends to make the people resentful of the acts of the police and inclines them to obstruct the police instead of to assist them.

    That blowback helped get rid of it, helped by it’s not being something people had grown used to but rather something they still associated with European police states:-

    On 21 February 1952 the Minister for Health, Harry Crookshank, announced in the House of Commons that national identity cards were to be scrapped. This was a popular move, adopted against the wishes of the police and the security services.

    That last sentence is unsurprising.

    • Hi PM,

      Isn’t it incredible that, in the space of a generation or so, the Western nations have become in a very real way more oppressive than the “police states” of the Axis?

      Yet, most people do not see it because because the leaders of the Western nations are not screaming hysterics but soft-looking men (and women) who speak in platitudes and because the racial element is absent.

      But the essentials are there – from the idea of exceptionalism imposed at bayonet point to Mussolini’s elaboration of the individual’s relationship to the state:

      “Against individualism, the Fascist conception is for the State; and it is for the individual in so far as he coincides with the State, which is the conscience and universal will of man in his historical existence. It is opposed to classical Liberalism, which arose form the necessity of reacting against absolutism, and which brought its historical purpose to an end when the State was transformed into the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the interests of the particular individual; Fascism reaffirms the State as the true reality of the individual. And if liberty is to be the attribute of the real man, and not of that abstract puppet envisaged by individualistic Liberalism, Fascism is for liberty. And for the only liberty which can be a real thing, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State. Therefore, for the Fascist, everything is in the State, and nothing human or spiritual exists, much less has value, outside the State. In this sense Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State, the synthesis and unity of all values, interprets, develops and gives strength to the whole life of the people.”

      If Clover’s IQ were above 85, he might have written that himself.

      • Dear Eric,

        So true.

        One contributing factor is that too many people are sheeple who prefer to trust labels rather than subject dubious phenomenon to their own critical judgment.

        These are people who would wax poetic about vinegar if it was poured out of a bottle with a Chateau Lafitte Rothschild label.

        “America is the greatest and freest nation on earth.” “Our president is the leader of the free world.” “America is the world’s champion of human rights.”

        These propositions may even have been true at one time in man’s history. But it sure ain’t true today, when America’s prison population outnumbers that of four times more populous “Communist China,” not just per capita, but in absolute numbers.

        • Bevin;

          “These are people who would wax poetic about vinegar if it was poured out of a bottle with a Chateau Lafitte Rothschild label.”

          That’s just so succinctly beautiful it should be immortalised among quotes such as:

          “Pure as the driven snow”

          “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both” (paraphrased version)

          “When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic”

          While the USSA’s going to hell in a handbasket, the MSM’s busy entertaining these gagging fops with buckets of ice water, endless yak about Robin Williams and what some poofter celeb’s been wearing lately. I believe this diversionary tactic was developed by a Roman emperor.

          • Dear Rev,

            Thanks! Glad you liked it!

            While the USSA’s going to hell in a handbasket, the MSM’s busy entertaining these gagging fops with buckets of ice water, endless yak about Robin Williams and what some poofter celeb’s been wearing lately. I believe this diversionary tactic was developed by a Roman emperor.

            The Hunger Games satirized that whole subculture so well with its airhead commentary and wretched excess. Stanley Tucci’s over the top turn as a “reality show” host was priceless!

          • @Bevin, @Revolution:
            A Rare Bargain

            Two travellers stopped for a meal at a restaurant.
            On the menu, two items of note:
            Finest Sake, $10 / cup
            Finest vinegar, $20/cup

            The travellers ordered their drinks (sake) and set to order their meal.
            When the drinks arrived, the first took a sip and spat it out, excaliming, “They have brought us vinegar by mistake!”
            “Be silent!” said the second, “or they shall charge uis twice as much.”

            Sheeple and the State.
            The State cannot make a mistake – it will simply charge you for what it beleives you should pay.
            For the sheep, well – stay silent or it will cost you even more.

            Idiot and Pussy are too polite….

      • eric, I don’t remember if I said anything about my legal troubles from last week but if not, drop me a line and i’ll spill my guts on what happened and how it relates to everybody. BTW, when it began, I was merely the victim of another bad driver but it soon progressed to me being criminally liable since me and big rigs seat belts don’t mix. Maybe I should wait till after my lawyer and I speak.

  27. Jews found their religion subject to periodic gross indignities, Roman soldiers exposing themselves in the Temple on one occasion, and burning a Torah scroll on another.

    Ultimately, the combination of financial exploitation, Rome’s unbridled contempt for Judaism, and the unabashed favoritism that the Romans extended to gentiles living in Israel brought about a revolt.

    In the year 66, the last Roman procurator, stole vast quantities of silver from the Temple. The outraged Jewish masses rioted and wiped out the small Roman garrison stationed in Jerusalem.

    The Roman ruler in neighboring Syria, sent in a large force of soldiers. But the Jewish insurgents routed them as well.

    This was a heartening victory that had a terrible consequence: Many Jews suddenly became convinced that they could defeat Rome, and the Zealots’ ranks grew geometrically. Never again, however, did the Jews achieve so decisive a victory.

    When the Romans returned, they had 60,000 heavily armed and highly professional troops. They launched their first attack against the Jewish state’s most radicalized area, the Galilee in the north. The Romans vanquished the Galilee, and an estimated 100,000 Jews were killed or sold into slavery.

    Throughout the Roman conquest of this territory, the Jewish leadership in Jerusalem did almost nothing to help their beleaguered brothers.

    The highly embittered refugees who succeeded in escaping the Galilean massacres fled to the last major Jewish stronghold—Jerusalem.

    There, they killed anyone in the Jewish leadership who was not as radical as they. Thus, all the more moderate Jewish leaders who headed the Jewish government at the revolt’s beginning in 66 were dead by 68—and not one died at the hands of a Roman. All were killed by fellow Jews.

    The scene was now set for the revolt’s final catastrophe. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in civil war.

    While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened victory and immensely increased the casualties.

    In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem’s Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this “security blanket” would compel everyone to participate in the revolt.

    The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted.

    During the summer of 70, the Romans breached the walls of Jerusalem, and initiated an orgy of violence and destruction. Shortly thereafter, they destroyed the Second Temple. This was the final and most devastating Roman blow against Judea.

    It is estimated that as many as one million Jews died in the Great Revolt against Rome. When people today speak of the almost two-thousand-year span of Jewish homelessness and exile, they are dating it from the failure of the revolt and the destruction of the Temple.

    Indeed, the Great Revolt of 66-70, followed some sixty years later by the Bar Kokhba revolt, were the greatest calamities in Jewish history prior to the Holocaust.

    In addition to the more than one million Jews killed, these failed rebellions led to the total loss of Jewish political authority in Israel until 1948.

    This loss in itself exacerbated the magnitude of later Jewish catastrophes, since it precluded Israel from being used as a refuge for the large numbers of Jews fleeing persecutions elsewhere.

    The Great Revolt (66 – 70 AD)

    In the case of the client kingdom, Judea, Herod’s rule and Herod’s forces would have been the political entity. But everyone knew that Rome was the power behind the throne. Everyone knew that Rome was the source of both the wealth and also the source of some of the problems that occurred in the Jewish state.

    Herod the Great was probably one of the greatest kings of the post-Biblical period in Israel, but you wouldn’t want your daughter to date him. He was ambitious, brutal, extremely successful; he brooked no opposition, either with family or with politics. He was … a genius of [a] self-made man.

    Thanks to the political connections of his father, he was able to marry into the ruling family in Judea. And it was under his kingship that post-Biblical Israel really rose to its political and material heights in the early days of the Roman Empire.

    Herod was a successful client king, which meant that as long as he paid tribute to Rome and was on the correct side of any kind of Roman fracas, he protected the political independence and liberty of Jews in Israel.

    The spiraling tension between Jews and Rome erupted in two revolts that deepened the rift between Jews and Christians.

    • Pardon me, Brian. It’s late. I wrote far too much. [The bruise on my shoulder looks like the state of Ohio but hurts less than yesterday]. What do you mean by, “good ol’ Smith and Jones”?


  28. Dear Eric,

    “Within a decade, at most, it will probably be impossible – legally – for any person in this country to avoid being fingerprinted. Perhaps also retina scanned and DNA swabbed, for good measure.”

    Agree. But don’t forget about mandatory tracking chip implants, for “national security.” This will probably be justified by the next big false flag event.

    Remember, any insane goonvermin “policy” will invariably be implemented in the most extreme manner imaginable, according the insane “logic” of power.

    • I’m not the type which is easily scared.

      The vision of the future you all are painting here seems scary.

      …And, All too possible.

      I saw a film this evening, based on something the writer of, ‘The Godfather’ produced. A key line which stuck with me… There was a guy in the film trying to give money he stole from the rich chronys to, “The People” in order for “The People” to buy Land.

      The Robbin Hood in the film thought “The People” wanted land.

      “The People” often agitated to get land. But, they were reluctant and put off by the show of force and power of their local rulers.

      It was written in, “the law” (in Italy/Sicily, supposedly) after the end of WWII that, “The People” should get some land from their former Fascist overlords.
      IF, they would just take it.
      But, they didn’t.

      What the Robbin Hood of the film didn’t understand (something the gangster type in the background did understand) was that, “The People” didn’t really want ‘Land’.
      What they wanted: was bread.

      A Very Clovearian outlook, eh?

      I kind of equated that to the liberty movement.

      The Liberty movement wants to deliver a message about how to achieve Liberty,… Only, all “The People” want: is bread.

      …And circuses.

      That whole: “can lead a horse to water”, bit?

      [Pardon me, i can’t recall the name of the film.]

      The vision of the future you all are painting here, leads to bread.

    • Morning, Bevin!

      If (when?) it happens, I’m going to the mattresses. Much as I cling to my stuff – my house, my classic car, bikes… not to mention indoor plumbing and so on… I will head into The Woods rather than submit to being “chipped.”

      • eric I live in the boonies but we’re very much easily found. esp. now with Guuhgle maps, etc. The problem is you are identified in so many ways you can go virtually anywhere, any place to buy anything, and they’ll be able to pinpoint you just by your phone number. Ok, delete the land line and there’ll be that many more ways to track you. You have a post office ID, so that’s enough. If you EVER figure a way to live and not be identified, as in a dwelling, please let me know. Sure, we could go to ground, live in a hole…..for some time but not indefinitely unless it was such rugged country and you stayed hidden all the time, someone would figure out that you existed in some local. You might get someone to not say they knew where you were or that you existed but even the people with the best intentions would mention their squatters on their place way out in nowhere and then some more people would know. I’ve studied this problem for decades. Before computers and everyone being ID’d, I had some friends who owned land(there you go, on record at the tax level, courthouse, land office)that was really remote, even no power. This friend and his wife lived in a tent for years(wanta talk about tough?). They made some of the best beer from Hill Country water I ever had. They finally broke from the strain and from getting into things they were sought for, nothing bad, but still, sought after by curious law shits. In desperation the guy blew himself up trying to make speed and then later, blew himself up again in a very similar accident(he was never the same after the first time). So his wife simply goes away to some place it seems only women can go and hide out(with someone to support them). I don’t fall into any of those categories and don’t wish to.

        Earlier today my friends in my private forum spoke of not being fingerprinted, as Tor, I think it was, posted the article about DPS fingerprinting in Tx.

        Ever gone into a store and asked about something and they ask if there’s a phone number they can contact you and when you give them one, they quote every damned thing there is to know about you.

        The cat’s out of the bag and disappearing is nigh onto impossible. But if you figure out a way, let me know.

        OTOH, we spoke of our great grandfather who worked for Charles Goodnight and Oliver Gooding. Well those days are gone unfortunately. I might have been happy being a cowboy but not for my entire life and then it’s tough to be anonymous.

        The spirit exists and the soul is willing but the flesh ain’t up to it. I can still wrangle a big rig every day but herding cattle a thousand miles is probably(no guessing, no probably)more than I could do. Anyway, you’ve have to cut hundreds of fences to herd cattle and battle all sorts of evil forces of various govt’s. so disappearing is really not an option. Yep, there’s a guy in N Tx. who is holed up and has been for many years the local sheriff doesn’t want to take on cause he’s highly armed and I suspect the sheriff has some sympathy for the guy. Still, he and his family have to live under the gun of the feds night and day year after year. His network is dying off, playing out so things look bleak and the feds hope to nab him and his with no media coverage someday. The state will outlast him naturally since the pay increases for doing that work and all the LEO’s nowdays seem to love wet work. Where to go? Damned if I know.

        • Where to go? Damned if I know.

          On other threads, I’ve previously suggested Kerguelen Island for this. It’s much like Iceland but with more ice and about the size of Wales, at 50 degrees south, 70 degrees east (roughly – it and its associated smaller islands are big enough to spread a bit more than that). You would have to steer clear of the French scientific base, but apart from that it’s as far from disturbance as you can get and well within the survivability of ancient Scottish and Irish life styles (so you would need to bring a clan, seeds and livestock as well as a starter stock of tools and short term supplies).

  29. My wife had to be fingerprinted to file electronically as a paid preparer of income tax forms. People who apply for concealed carry generally must be fingerprinted, as well as anyone who is ever arrested on any charge, no matter if later dismissed. As for SSN, I’ve even been refused emergency medical care for refusing to divulge my SSN. I used to volunteer for the county until some busybody decided that the police needed more protection from us dangerous volunteers, in the form of annual background checks via SSN. Resistance is futile. We are all being absorbed. I resist anyway.

    • I have a list of the SSNs of dead celebrities that I use when going to a doctor, dentist, etc. (As long as you are not applying for any kind of government “benefit” or “license” it’s not a problem.) You can find them online pretty easily. Here is a list of some that I’ve used:

      567-68-0515 (Richard Nixon)
      409-52-2002 (Elvis Presley)
      562-05-1177 (William Frawley – aka Fred Mertz)
      062-36-0749 (Barry Goldwater)
      567-48-8307 (Lenny Bruce)

      Thus far no one has checked the number for validity as recently as several months ago when I went to an urgent care facility for an injury. I suppose, though, it is just a matter of time until you need to provide a valid SSN just to buy food at the supermarket. Ultimately as the noose is tightened, freedom-minded people may need to gather in more-or-less self-sufficient communities like the Amish or the old hippie communes of the 1960s such as “The Farm” in Tennessee.

          • I never give out real identifying information to anyone unless there’s no way out of doing so (such as in a traffic stop). In the instance I mentioned of going to a medical facility, I did not show any identification and gave completely bogus name and address. I have a cheap anonymous “pay as you go” cell phone to use as a phone contact in such situations. My prescriptions were also obtained using this phony information.

            I simply told the staff that I no longer drove due to an eye condition and thus did not have a driver’s license or other identification, and that if their concern was being paid I would put up cash up front. No problem, the issue was taken care of, and no medical record in my name to send off to the feds.

            Today I spent the day in Manhattan visiting relatives and carried no identification at all, it’s an amazingly free feeling to simply walk down the street of a busy city without being encumbered by government “papers.” All I had on my person was some cash and my lawyer’s “rights card.” I would have no problem telling any cop demanding ID from me for no good reason to go f*ck him or herself.

      • I wanna be Fred Mertz! [Thinks of old Opie & Anthony routine, where they were doing Fred Mertz, saying “Hey Rick, whadduyah say we smoke some pot and pick up some wh*res?”] 😀

      • Jason, many thanks. I’ll be using these I’m sure. I’ve been to the ER twice recently and both times they wanted my DL. I wasn’t sure how to not give it to them since both instances had something to do with being a professional driver. Anybody have any ideas if this happens again in my line of work? As Ross would say “I’m all ears”.

        • What I would probably do in the ER is start screaming in pain and saying repeatedly you don’t have any ID on you, and are they going to just let you just die there because your papers are not in order. (Don’t get into whether you actually have any ID elsewhere, just scream in pain some more if they ask.) Make a lot of noise, attract a lot of attention.

  30. “Stop and identify” statutes are laws in the United States that authorize police to detain persons and request such persons to identify themselves, and arrest them if they do not.

    Nevada statute 171.123  Temporary detention by peace officer of person suspected of criminal behavior or of violating conditions of parole or probation: Limitations.

    1.  Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.

    2.  Any peace officer may detain any person the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has violated or is violating the conditions of the person’s parole or probation.

    3.  The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain the person’s identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding the person’s presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself or herself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.

    4.  A person must not be detained longer than is reasonably necessary to effect the purposes of this section, and in no event longer than 60 minutes. The detention must not extend beyond the place or the immediate vicinity of the place where the detention was first effected, unless the person is arrested.

    Texas DPS no longer trying its hand at fingerprint processing

    Vegas school police issuing jaywalking tickets

    • Dear Tor,

      It’s so interesting to contrast how I now react to statutory law compared to how I reacted in the past.

      Even though I considered myself a libertarian, I was still a minarchist. I still believed in “constitutionalism and the rule of law.” In other words, I was still unwittingly under the sway of the Myth of Authority.

      Since transitioning from minarchism to anarchism however, I think back and wonder, “How the hell could I ever have believe that bullshit???”

      The best example of course, is Larkin Rose’s video.

      I’m Allowed to Rob You!


      • Yes, I would love to see all kinds of works Larkenized.
        Those who have been bitten by the state, like Larken, are often its strongest and most effective critics, I think.

        Maybe Eric builds some puppets and films himself and a robot pig and a robot clover watching the latest police brutality videos and making hilarious snarky comments.

        I really like the recent interviews. I wonder what a libertarian_car_guy article would be like if it was recited with moving images and sound as enhancements.

        Security Theater 3000 he could call it.

        That way Eric remains out of frame, yet his voice, humor, and wisdom is still there, and the brain receives more stimuli than just the visual cortex, it might be kind of awesome.

        • Thanks, Tor!

          These videos are a work-in-progress. I just kind of go out and do them, unscripted and off the top of mah head. Stream of consciousness.

          My background is in print media – the written word – where one has the luxury of time, to be able to work a sentence before “uttering” it.

          But I can see the complementary benefit that the spoken word adds to this site – hence my working on that side of the equation!

          • woah this thing is sweet

            your own teleprompter

            I just copied and pasted your response

            And then pushed start and then space bar, and it started scrolling at the right speed to read out loud in my browser.

            Maybe some clover cammer could try reading a short article using this teleprompter site and post it?

            maybe this could be premium content?

            make clovercam have a paywall. move a bunch of archived stuff behind the wall. make it so every 20th article or whatever is partially premium?

            It seems like Stef Molyneux just recorded himself in the car in the beginning.

            here this ron paul premium article just kind of cuts off after the first few paragraphs. it has the premium box in the upper right.


            just make sure your premium content isnt where some leecher like me can get to. I wouldn’t spread it to others, but I’d watch whatever was available.

            you could post a teaser portion on the main page, then put the full article in the forum section, which very few are using right now it seems. (I forget my login info so I’d have to pay to view there)

            I am full of work for other people to engage in. Maybe I’m turning clover. It actually seems like things are still on the steady uptick, this is not meant to imply any kind of urgency or anything.

      • Maybe I’m too accomodating because I agree with you on principle, but I often argue the constitution anyway because I know the person in question simply could not understand anarcho-capitalism in any way that I could explain it. I know so many conservatives who don’t even agree with the constitution they think they believe in.

        I want absolute freedom. But in the meantime, I want more freedom. Incremental steps are good, so long as they are actual incremental steps and not just smaller steps backward.

        • If you were my kid, I wouldn’t trust you. It’s commendable the way you’ve educated yourself. And the way you seek to teach others what you’ve learned.

          But you don’t earn trust by doing the things that feel right and are rewarding. How can I believe you’ll really be there when it counts?

          Are you starting your own guerilla ministry based on the Zero Aggression Axiom and Voluntarist Anarchy? Jesus stood in opposition to the world as it then existed, and even against the creator of the world on certain firmly held principles.

          You only attain Jesus level by forming and popularizing your own commandments. He wasn’t just some scripture spouting robot zealot, he made his own individual way and braved the consequences. Jesus never used force on anyone personally nor by proxy.

          Should the poop hit the fan, I question whether you’re going to be there. You’ll mostly likely be asleep or bedazzled by the flashing lights of authority. Just like the disciples were when Pontius Pilate served his warrant.

          “Hey guys, Jesus is in jail. I guess he’s some kind of criminal and he’s been manipulating us the whole time,” David said enthusiastically.

          I’m going to his trial, and I”ll give him the benefit of the doubt, but it looks pretty bad. He’s been breaking the law for a long time,” David said in an disheartened and serious tone.

          Fosters s02e07 The Longest Day

          I know that 320 million Americans are doomed just by watching this show. Artistic Imagination, Humanitarianism and Scripture are no longer a defense against the all powerful Leviathan state.

          If I had a son, I’d expect him to understand the real message to take away from this sappy sitcom. The truth and the way transcends finite points of good and evil, and has to do with sustaining free will and freedom to act. Ideally, I’d love to hear you offer an better lesson than the one I’m offering, I’m not the be all end all by any means.

          In a previous episode, a 16 year old boy was drunk and had sex with his step dad’s adult girlfriend. In a police state, even TV shows must comply with the state narratives. In this case it’s “See Something Say Something.”

          Not surprisingly, there was a little drama where a secret was kept, but in the end, state justice is served.

          “What Dani did was illegal, we have to do something.” At the end of the episode, the police are shown knocking at her door and take her away.

          Here is your commandment for dealing with Leviathan:

          See Nothing Say Nothing Hear Nothing Do Nothing

          The unseen Devil, should he exist, pales in comparison to the evil and power of the known and seen evil of the Leviathan State.

          Show me how you’ll lend a hand to help your fellow man survive and cope with Leviathan’s assault, then I might be interested in your views on the Devil and other peripheral issues.

          • Meh, distrust of me seems to be a common theme around this parts. Bevin has questioned my committment to the NAP as well.

            Two questions:

            First of all, we’re in a relatively annonymous environment here, I use my first name but its still relatively annonymous, so what incentive do I have to lie?

            Second of all, if I were going to lie on the internet, why would I lie by representing unpopular positions that may well get me labeled a “terrorist” by the government someday?

            This is just silly and absurd. Not only am I an ancap, but I’m the only one I know and I don’t know anybody who can argue logic the same way I can. Which makes defending libertarianism difficult at times. Most people just don’t get it.

            • Hi David,

              I take your support for the NAP at face value. You’ve given me no reason to suspect you of hypocrisy. I admit that like some others here, I am a little skeeved out by your religiosity. But then, there are no doubt things about me that would skeeve out others, too.

              So long as we’re all agreed to keep our eccentricities to ourselves – or at least, to not impose them on unwilling others – then everything’s cool.

          • Well, you’ve stated that you’re increasingly uncomfortable with the idea of meat-eating. I trust you that you won’t use that discomfort to force anyone else not to eat meat.

            I’ll be honest here and admit that Christianity is not without its problems in my mind. I don’t have any issues at all with the core doctrines and am wholly in agreement with them. But, the fact that most Christians (like most other people, Christians are not exceptional here) are militaristic, pro-cop, and pro-government control really bugs me and definitely makes me feel alienated at times. I know you’ve expressed the same issues from outside the church and I’m with you on those issues. For what its worth (Just something to counter-balance that reality) has a religion subforum and, all the theological debates aside, the people who post there, as an average, I would say are even more anti-state than the average person on the forums in general. And its already a relatively anti-statist bunch (I’d estimate around 40% ancaps, 30% minarchists, 20% constitutionalists/classical liberals, and 10% moderates, with a handful of liberals and trolls mixed in for the general forum). And there are some very good blogs on the internet by anti-state Christians as well, and its also worth noting that Laurence Vance from LRC is a fundamentalist evangelical.

            So, there are a lot of people who are on our side in the church, and I’m grateful for that, but the majority of the church is still blind and brainwashed. I’m personally ready to separate from the militaristic “god and country” people, and as a general group (I know there’s a lot of variance) I don’t consider them Christians as a pure default. And it definitely pains me that most people in the church support aggression and don’t think anything of it. It wouldn’t bother me as much* if somebody supported aggression in a select few situations, and was actually aware that they were supporting aggression, but most people aren’t even aware of it at all, and thus they support A LOT of violence, again, without even knowing it. On the one hand, I recognize that I was once the same. But on the other hand, when it was pointed out to me (by a number of people, including you, actually) it bothered me and I began the process of changing my views and becomming more consistent. Most people don’t even try, and its aggravating.

            • Agreed, David.

              What Ghandi once reportedly said comes to mind: I like your Christ, but not your Christians.

              If I were to analyze the situation, I’d say Christ – and his doctrines – have been co-opted by the state, to further the interests of the state. As I understand it, early Christians were not coercive and certainly not militaristic. But along came Constantine and his Council of Nicaea. In Hoc Signo Vinces and all that cal.

              Since then – and especially since the advent of the “catholic” church (small “c”) – the whole thing has been a system for profit and control, another authoritarian shibboleth.

              It’s interesting that the Gnostics, Cathars and other “heretics” were systematically exterminated – or at least, the effort was made – by the established church.

              Ol’ JC himself seemed like maybe a not-bad dude.

              Son of God is going a bit far… especially if one insists on monotheism at the same time.

              But from what I’ve read about him, he seems to have been unobjectionable as a man.

              Of course, I’m a fan of Utnapishtim, too. Jesus, Mark I.

          • From Jesus Christ directly, you get only one line, to my knowledge, that directly deals with the State. “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.) The text gives us no real information about what actually belongs to Caesar. As far as I understand, if everything belongs to God, than nothing can belong to Caesar. Everyone assumes that passage means “pay your taxes” but I feel that this is unwarranted.

            Of course, you also get a ton of indirect references to tax collectors in the same category as prostitutes. Jesus made the Pharisees angry by eating with these people, but he did not eat with them because he condoned their behavior. Rather, he did so in order to seek their repentance. Every evangelical realizes this is the case with the prostitute, but they seem to completely forget about it (or explain it away) for the tax collector.

            I think some patience with regards to the earliest Reformers (Luther, Calvin, etc.) is justified. They took HUGE strides in the right direction by challenging the pope and the unconditional power of the Catholic Church (which in practice was HUGELY connected to government power.) Yes, they were stuck in many of the traditions of their day, even killing heretics at times as was common in their day, but they also laid the foundation for classical liberalism. Similar to how I was saying awhile back that I admire George Washington for having the guts to stand up to the British and for having the self-control to reject unlimited power for himself, even though like all Presidents he abused his own power to some degree.

            Unfortunately, modern American Christians (predominately), instead of continuing to move in the right direction, simply think that “the right kind” of governmental control is the answer.

            But, where I think Gandhi makes his mistake, and where I suspect you make the mistake as well, is judging Christianity as a religion by its adherents. The fact that Gandhi saw so many Christians who were hypocrites and didn’t actually follow the Bible was not a valid excuse to reject Christianity. And, there will always be remnant who worships God and not the State.

  31. I concluded some time ago that the world is effectively a “police state”. The German National Socialists of the 1930’s and early 40’s would be aghast at what has been achieved after they lost their war. Having lived in both Germany and the The solution for me was to study and then choose my battles to be fought when and where I choose. It is not easy but nothing changes until people make a stand.

    Most bureaucrats, cops, lawyers and judges are as ignorant as a new born baby but they know “their law”. I know their law and the foundation of their law. Big difference. The challenge is to put them in a spot where they just don’t want to deal with you. They have many easy targets. I intend to be a difficult, hardened, moving target as long as I live.

    • Sorry, “lived in Germany and the United States of America”, the perpetual Union there is little difference. Except that my German friends have better beer.

  32. Arguing a national ID is over from a real world perspective and I must say I agree. Don’t beat me up till I explain! People do not change and never will. If I had a dollar for every criminal that I arrested or person that I summonsed that gave false ID I could be a wealthy man. How many times I would go to court scratching my head bewildered about a case cause the name is unfamiliar only to find out by the district attorney they gave me a false name (prints never lie). Same applies to traffic court as people would show up stating they received a subpoena in the mail for a violation that never occurred. Identity theft is spiraling out of control and will continue to do so as long as there are THOUSANDS of different agencies issuing their own IDs.

    The IDs as of today are a sad joke and misused by both the government and the people. What’s the solution?……a national ID, not unlike a passport but credit card sized. Unlike a drivers license or other “government” IDs it does not expire and is never to be used as a leash (ball-n-chain).

    I would laugh when someone produced “ID” from various unfamiliar sources. Who is trained and has the equipment to detect fakes?

    It may suck but having your identity stolen or having been robbed by someone who “vanished” sucks even more!

    • The crime as I see it is “identity rape.”

      This crime was perpetrated by officials and my birth parents.

      I did not and do not consent to being measured and cataloged by asshole strangers who are members of the Govt Mafia.

      I do not consent to these Govfathers keeping any records about me or passing along any information to any third parties.

      These so called Govts are known mass murderers, who as of late kill 160 million people per 100 years.

      I not only hope someone steals your “clover identity” you hold so dear.

      I intend to lend material support and help plan the theft of entire network of Anglosphere nation’s “identity” and credit.

      I hope Central and Southern Americans break thru the Southern Front and pick you and your every family member completely clean such and leave you barren of property such that you are utterly destitute.

      And then they run up a huge tab in your name. And then burn up all the records. Magnetize all the computers. Such that even your very language is annihilated. And every data point of your verminous exploits is lost to the good and rich earth.

      I hope this happens soon, you psychopathic card carrying member of child rapist terrorists who deserve every possible measure of retribution and cultural destruction that is surely coming your way.

        • Consider this:

          I imagine you’re fairly proud of your career and what you’ve accomplished.

          And you’ve proven yourself a stand-up guy here willing to endure the kitchen heat of those who cast the first stones of statist accusation at you, while conveniently blanking out in regard to their own statisms and daily predations.

          Can you even imagine how much more you might have accomplished if you had provided similar services to customers and free riders who voluntarily desired your services.

          How much richer you life would have been. As well as how much more those who experienced your years of public service might have accomplished without all the idiotic Simon Says Games of Life and Death?

          There two possibilities for the most part. The number of Machiavellian Princes keeps multiplying and gaining power over all. Or a few of us find a way in the woods less taken where we ignore and avoid the state, and finally start living again.

          We all recall the good, and bury the bad. But there might have been so much more good. There can be so much more for our children and their children. Let’s roll.

          What Might Have Been – The NAP Self Owner’s Notebook Short Film – Lyrics by Little Texas

          We can sit and talk about this all night long. And wonder why the united State didn’t last. Yes, they might be the best days we will ever know. But we’ll have to leave them in the past.

          So try not to think about what once has been. Cause that was then, And we must take a different road. We can’t go back again. There’s no use giving in. And there’s no way to know. What might have been.

          – This is my internet persona. There are many like it. But this one is mine. I wish you and yours doubleplus Govspeed JoePA.

          • National ID regardless of how identification is made, DNA, Retina, prints or whatever is coming regardless who wins this freedom battle. It will be a necessary evil even for true die-hard Libertarians. Your enemy is never truly defeated, they just change their perception to you. In a tiny community no-ID might work but even then only until strangers show up.

            • Hi Joe,

              A “necessary” evil… ?

              If you accept that it’s ok to do evil things for what you or some other person (or group) decrees to be “necessary” (which is a subjective value judgment, don’t forget) reasons then how, pray, will you limit the spread of evil?

              A thing is either right – or it’s not.

              And if it’s not, then don’t do it.

          • A market anarchist society could of course have private communities that require ID.

            That is not a problem even for hardline libertarians.

            Other private communities would not. Individuals would decide which they wanted to belong to.

            But if one is talking about conventional monopolistic government, nothing is “necessary.” Least of all anything evil.

    • Sorry, Officer, it is none of your business who I am, where I came from, where I am going, or what I am doing. When not driving I carry no identification.

    • Joe,
      There are in the works national biometric ID databases. Based on fingerprints and retinal scans, and taken at birth.
      Don’t know the update plans, but I’d point out we’re all of a hemisemidemiquaver from injecting RFID tags into infants, “For their own protection.”
      And if it’s done without public knowledge, in the 15 or so vaccinations?

      That’s where National ID goes to.
      Make less reason for identity to matter, punish those who are violent and harm others, but leave the peaceful alone – or we have no reason to BE peaceful.
      Monsters like me were MADE, not born.

      And BTW, we’re robbed EVERY F*CKING DAY by people who “vanished” behind the facade of “government.” This means Police, DMV, IRS, BATFE, FBI, CIA, NSA, Mayors, Alderman, etc, etc, etc.
      It’s like trying to survive with a thousand tapeworms in your small intestine. You’re being bled to death itnernally, and no matter how much you eat, your body is dying.

        • Jean – I seem to recall a woman named Kelo losing her land to a private developer in New London in an “eminent domain” case, since “economic development” (i.e. increased tax revenue) was more important to the community than Ms. Kelo’s property rights. Now, once “they” have everyone, ID’d, chipped and in the DNA database, it wouldn’t be a stretch to extend that to concept to transplantable human body parts. Let’s say the prez or some very wealthy insider needs a kidney or a heart. Guess what? They’ll know who the perfect match is. In the case of a high gun-vermin “official” they could exercise a form of “eminent domain” on that kidney of yours, since that “official” is so much more important to the operation of the country than you are. In the case of a very wealthy insider, with access to the “completely private, totally secure” gun-vermin database, you might just simply disappear like Jimmy Hoffa did.

          If anyone thinks that’s a stretch, you sorely underestimate the level of depravity humans will stoop to when they are desperate to survive. And those that have wealth and power, as history proves, are often the very worst of the worst. JoePA, are you still real sure a comprehensive national database for every man, woman and child in this country is such a good idea? You better think long and hard about this critically, not just on the anecdotal evidence of your limited life experience. As Tor pointed out above, government and their cronies are the biggest abusers of individual privacy, identities, rights and even life itself. “Legitimate” criminals can’t hold a candle to what the state does daily and on an almost incomprehensibly grand scale to boot. Just sayin’…

        • Crims are immensely useful to the state. They plant fear in the populace, and the authorithy use this to enact more laws and control over the people. That is why governments allow crims so many privileges. Clovers love crims, despite what they say. Because crims are allowed to circulate freely, it allows clovers to full bloom their personalities. It allows clovers to add more gov’t that then removes rights for no valid reason, other than to appeal to clovers and to further gov’t control over people.

          • Dear to5,


            Richie: INS, FBI, IRS – I can’t get anything out of them. Nothing on his travel, his bank accounts, property holdings – nothing.

            Toback: That’s because they all think you’re on the take and you think they are.

            Richie: They don’t want this to stop. It employs too many people. Cops, lawyers, judges, probation officers, prison guards. The day dope stops coming into this country, a hundred thousand people lose their jobs.

            From “American Gangster” 2007, a true life account of how in 1970s America, federal agent Richie Roberts works to bring down the drug empire of Frank Lucas, a heroin kingpin from Manhattan, who is smuggling the drug into the country from the Far East.

            NB: obviously I am not advocating “drug wars.” I am merely pointing out how clover drug wars provide a rationale for expansion of state power.

        • If you’re interested in becoming an expert in violent response, why not join the military. You can be well trained in all manner of lethal force.

          Or work in the private sector for Academi or some other Defense Contractor.

          I had a cousin who was an expert marksman. They trained him as a sniper. I’m sure that skill set could go a long way towards making the praetorians more fearful of the mundanes.

          Once you have your training and experience, go AWOL. Then go rogue. Go Rambo. Easy Peasy.

          Those of us who want to be left alone are all at the top of a tree and there’s millions of growling animals waiting for us down below.

          There is no evidence supporting the idea that you must fight violence only with violence. You have to bring more, and differentiate yourself from the oppressors as well.

          If you want to deal only in violence. You don’t need to hang out up here with us. Descend the tree and cry havoc.

          For those who love guns and small govt, get in your car and move, it still exists here. You want to be a vegan. Go do that. Interested in being a Christian, come on down from this tree. You are free to do these things in the USA.

          If violence against those in authority is your thing, go to it.

          There has to be more to it if its something freedom lovers should pursue, I’m not sure exactly what. I am mostly failing at this myself, but I remain hopeful, others will succeed where I do not.

          The state loves violence. They’ve been at this for ten of thousands of years, they’ve perfected it. They’ve evolved around the concept.

          Statists really are a special kind of reptilian sapien. They seem human, but they’re cold blodded. They need enslaved people to keep them warm to provide for them while they lay about on warm rocks and dream up even more ways to live off violence and predation.

          There’s certainly nothing verbotten about using violence. Go out into the woods with some gear, and wrestle a moose to the ground with only crude implements.

          Find some remote land and get some cages and take all kinds of adversaries out in no man’s land and do battle. Hell grab a couple of derelicts and take them into a soundproofed basement lair, and really hone your dormant predatory instincts.

          Defense contractors outnumber troops

          • That was freaky. So true.

            And this, it was, as they say, Spot On:

            “Those of us who want to be left alone are all at the top of a tree and there’s millions of growling animals waiting for us down below.”

            No, as a final thought for the night, That won’t give me nightmares. …The trees of Sicily. Or, something?

          • re: Enlisting: I tried that way back when, and would’ve been tossed for medical reasons…
            Can’t have certain eye conditions, period, and enlist…
            And without that background, the PMC (private military corporations for those who’ve never heard it before – E.G., Blackwater) generally aren’t interested in you.

      • Jean, I totally agree that the government has grown out of proportion and is currently abusive. This will continue to grow by the way until people simply say “no more!”. The government wants a national ID strictly for control, not unlike ranchers branding or tagging cattle. I don’t have all the answers but I have seen ID theft destroy people, families and businesses. You’ll need something to prove you are you or else kiss your assets goodbye.

    • Joe, that is ridiculous “logic”- and what I would expect from a mercenary of the state.

      The more data that is attached to a person’s identity, the more devestating ID theft will become. It will do nothing to prevent ID theft, because until and if you have the victim on the spot, and check his physical indicators, you will know nothing. Meanwhile, the ID thief will have had a field day, committing all of his virtual crimes which don’t require a retina scan or fingerprinting or personal presence.

      National ID has nothing to do with “safety” and “protection”. It has to do with Gov’t control.

      And regardless of the reasoning, to subject every citizen to invasion of privacy and compulsory participation, is not only to make all innocent people pay the price for the few criminals; but it also forces them to accept the machinations of tyranny, while in fact making them more vulnerable to criminals.

      Hey, if you’re going to be a mercenary for the state, than do it until some benevolent soul blows you away- you need not try and justify your crimes and moral short-comings by trying to pretend that what you do and approve of is “for our good”.

      • Hardly a mercenary. Without the current IDs identity theft would be at epidemic levels. So you think no IDs would help? You must be joking. I could just picture you walking into your bank to make a withdrawal only to find out “you” were just there and cleaned out your account….lol

        • Dear Joe,

          IDs will be widely used in a free market anarchist society.

          The difference is that they will be voluntary. They will be like credit card information. Even today, we willingly obtain credit card numbers and other private sector forms of ID, such as club membership cards and numbers.

          There will be no compulsory national ID card and number forcibly imposed upon one by goonvermin against one’s will.

          That’s the difference.

          • I’m willing to give anything a try because the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

          • Dear Joe,

            Clover’s main problem is his underlying dictatorial mindset.

            Clover’s secondary problem, actually, it’s probably more like a tertiary problem, is that he assumes that members of a genuinely free society would somehow sit on their asses and whimper “What are we going to do? What are we going to do?”

            As anyone familiar with the historical record knows, that is utterly contrary to the facts. People constantly solve problems in millions of ingenious ways. Goonvermin micromanagers merely stand in their way.

            The problem of private sector ID was essentially solved long ago.

        • Hi Joe,

          If my identity is merely who I tell you am – not a number – how, pray, can it be stolen?

          Sure, someone can claim to be me – and I could claim to be someone else.

          But the problem you’re talking about – the legitimate worry – is that some cretin can access your bank accounts (and so on) and clean you out. But this is invariably done anonymously, using government-issued numbers, via electronic means.

          If I, as an example, possess my money as physical gold, you would have to physically take it from me. Hacking into some electronic files would not work.

          With government numbers, all tied into the same government-corporate nexus, we have no protection.

          A “real” ID will not solve this. It will merely consolidate the corporate-government cartel’s power over us.

        • Current IDs are so useful to identity thieves because institutions, financial and otherwise, use identifying information without any other sort of backstop to prevent fraud. In addition all your personally identifiable information is contained in large databases maintained by a group of people with no interest in doing the best that they can to protect your information. A world without centrally issued IDs would mean that the entities you do business have to know you or someone in the community has to vouch for you. i.e. a return to ‘home town banking’. A bad thing? I think not.

          I would look forward to such a return but I find it highly doubtful that it would happen short of a national calamity. If it did happen I can only hope our ancestors retain some of the knowledge we have suffered for.

          • So we would want a two-factor ID system, huh?
            Something like a biometric (fingerprints, probably) followed by a challenge/response. It’s “something you have + something you know.”

            Implanted RFID? + RSA token?

            But then…. What?
            How do you keep the gatekeepers (IE, the person issuing the challenge) from in turn selling that information to some third-party?
            And if your RSA token is destroyed, lost, or replaced (IE, selling your ID to someone else – your RSA token will be replaced with a different one) – so then, how do you RECOVER from the inevitable F-up? It’s a question of WHEN, not IF.

            • The key is… voluntary participation.

              IDs are not the problem. Being forced to carry one is the problem.

              If I prefer to deal with a bit more hassle when it comes to (as an example) transacting business because I prefer not to have an ID, then that ought to be my free choice to make.

              Those who do not object to surrendering their privacy (and anonymity) in exchange for (as in the above example) being able to do a business transaction more quickly – well, bully.

              Get the coercion out of the equation and almost every major problem we face in life disappears.

              It’s so easy… yet so hard.

          • @Eric,
            Sorry I was unclear – given the context, it was to be enforced solution at government gunpoint.

            IE, a premise to get us chipped and make business more difficult. Nothing more, nothing less.
            And more money to go to “security services” (Like the 3% or so on a CC charge.) So prices go up again….

        • BTW: This comment was originally directed at Moleman. Seeing a fellow Christian write “mercenary of the State” was priceless in a good way.

      • Agreed Moleman. Here in Oz we had our grabbermint try for a national ID card back in the 80’s I think, but it was quickly scuppered. You guys already have SS cards and green cards, DL’s etc. These are already on record and any one of them can identify you in many ways. Having a national ID card just makes ruining you that much simpler.

    • Interesting.
      People do not change and never will.

      Then why do we need to catalogue them, and brand them with a permanent ID?
      These people, being people, will only dig it out, or alter their body, to hide who they actually are.
      Whereas, those who do not intend trouble, won’t bother either way.

      Bottom line, you’re cataloguing people because YOU INTEND TO USE AND ABUSE THEM.
      And the ones who change their ID methods or info and slip away?
      Cost of doing business (theft at gunpoint by government stooge.)

    • Joe, I’ll take my chances thank you. I could get struck by lightning too or hit by a meteor but all in all, I’d rather not(be identified).

  33. An indirectly related comment to what you’re discussing here, Eric:

    A couple of weeks ago, I was in church and a speaker got up and mentioned the air show that was taking place that weekend. The air show takes place at the nearby US Air Force Base. While I’m completely against military worship in church, I know that it is common. But she made a comment that just about made me jump out of my seat. The comment?

    “The sounds you hear from the base are the sounds of freedom.”

    Wow, really?

    I suspect, then, that the Air Force will be out bombing the driver’s license bureau out of existence, right? Or taking out the local police department? Or even better, taking out all of Washington D.C., right?

    I won’t hold my breath.

    “Sounds of freedom” my you-know-what…..

    • I have a similar story.
      I live in NC, in between three bases. In NC, it’s not that hard to be in that situation, but…
      The Army loves flying their multi-million dollar helicopters a couple hundred feet off the ground over residential areas “so they can train”, as I’m told. Train for what is the question of the day, but let’s not go there right now.
      I posted my annoyance with this spectacle on the Book of Face, considering they love doing it at 9:30pm and a friend gave the same reply, that it was “The sound of freedom.” I think I gave myself a concussion with the subsequent facepalm.

      • The “training” is low-level flight. It IS necessary, I’m afraid, but there MUST be better options than flying over civilian homes at 9:30 PM.
        OTOH, they’re probably prohibited from doing this over national parks or such, because it would disturb the mating habits of the spitting spotted specialised cockroach. (Sorry, I liked the alliteration….)

        Disturbing people who merely want to go to sleep for the 6 AM shift tomorrow? Who gives a f*ck about PEOPLE…

        A green laser pointer might discourage mis-use of the airspace…. Or to really f*ck with them, make a small barrage ballon: lightweight steel wire with a large helium balloon and a small weight.
        Should shred the rotors and crash teh chopper, and since it’s not anchored…. No evidence, if you pay cash and plan in advance…

        As for the injuries? Cost of doing business. Always a displeasure doign business with the cartel.

        “Damaging military property” indeed – including the soldiers on board. 🙁

        • A few years ago the good (elite) people of Aspen (Colorado) were up in arms over a plan by the Air Force to start using the national forest just south of Aspen as a low level practice area. It seems the area is a fairly good approximation of Afghanistan. The elites were going to have none of that, since it would disturb backcountry hikers and the King’s woodland creatures:

          1600 elites (and their representative) were able to get the entire Air Force to change their plans. Shows you what a little power and a ton of money can do…

          • The flyboys do fly overs in my area, too.

            I envy them a little… because I love airplanes. But my reverie is always scuttled by the intrusion of thoughts about the true nature of the spectacle… of the waste, the coercive violence behind it – and the death-dealing threat that undergirds it all.

        • years ago some I learned of some clowns got a ten foot diameter weather balloon, electrolised tap water and collected the hydrogen, then filled the ballon with aluminium foil chaff. They then inflated it with the hydrogen, and attached a length of slow fuse. It was then released….. happened to be near to a military air station (not planned, that’s where they lived). The ballon went quite high, such that the burning fuse was no longer visible. Thinking it had extinguished, the mischef-makers turned to go…. and then heard a deep far away WHUMP adn caught the large flash as they turned back. The base scrambled a handful of F 4 jets (current production at the time) to investigate the large bogey appeared out of nowhere on their radar screens. This all was at night, of course…. they found nothing…. until morning when they did preflight inspections of the jets and noticed shards of the aluminium foil in the blades of the jet engines. Seems one of the perps heard about it from an acquaintance who was one of the pilots scrambled. No clue what had happened…… oh well, I suppose the flyboys did appreciate the change from the typical boredom……

    • I feel your pain, brother.

      Every now and again in our church we get a prayer for “those who are fighting for our freedoms.” Unfortunately, those prayers weren’t directed toward people like Eric…

      • Hi David,

        One of the things that really turns me off about “mainstream” Christians I’ve encountered is their almost – no, their literally worshipful attitude toward the military. I trace this back to Ronald Reagan and his crowd, who succeeded in “branding” Jesus as a warmonger.

        • Good point Eric. My church is better than many others in this regard. There are no “god and country” services. There are no pledges to the flags in the sanctuary (unfortunately the kids program still does them, which disgusts me). There’s no special time in the service to “honor those who have served their country” in the military, police, etc. I’ve never heard a sermon telling us to “obey the law”. And although I haven’t told everyone, there are many people who are aware that I would dodge the draft if drafted on moral principle: I haven’t been thrown out yet;)

          Mind you, there are still a lot of things I dislike in our church with regards to its attitude toward the military and the government in general. As I mentioned earlier, they still pledge the flag in the kids program. We have sang “Battle Hymn of the Republic” before (though we’ve removed it from our list of songs that we sing, as far as I know.) We still have prayers from the pulpit in which people have prayed “for our military, those who are fighting for our freedoms.” We have a list of prayer requests that we use during our BIble study and prayer gatherings, which includes a section that says “Pray for President Obama and all of our elected officials, that they might follow God’s will” (This may be really nitpicky, but I don’t like calling them “our elected officials” or the assumption that they can actually legislate God’s Will in any way, shape, or form), as well as of course a section for the military, no mention whatsoever of the fact that the wars are illegitimate and that that is the reason soldiers risk their lives and are separated from their families. So, as a balanced perspective, our church isn’t exactly liberty-minded, but its not a zionist or neo-con church either.

          In my experience, though there are plenty of exceptions and a lot of margin for error, there is a strong indirect relationship between what theological beliefs one has and how one views politics. Especially eschatology. Dispensational premillennialists and pretribulational rapture people in particular tend to be much more zionist, nationalist, and big-government neocons (note that I am not saying this is ALWAYS the case, just that its a tendency that I see.) Postmillennialists can be big or small government but generally in different ways than dispensational premils, postmils tend to be more socially conservative and sometimes reconstructionist (think Rushdoony, Gary North, and the like) but many (not all, not necessarily most, but definitely a sizeable chunk) actually agree with us on foreign policy, economics, and civil liberties issues. Its worth mentioning that Rushdoony (the father of Christian reconstructionism as a modern movement) admired Ludwig Von Mises and referred to himself as a “Christian libertarian” (This label was not strictly accurate, especially in the social realm, but he did hold to a number of small government beliefs and was definitely libertarian leaning in some respects.)

          By contrast, historic premils and amils tend to either be more politically apathetic, or, if they aren’t politically apathetic, have a tendency to be more politically tolerant and not necessarily assume that there’s a direct corrolation between conservatism and Christianity. Most of the Reformed historic premils and amils I know are at least sympathetic to libertarian ideas to some degree. I don’t think I know any who I’d assign a consistency rate of 95% or higher, but they are definitely skeptical of government control, not zionist in any way (if they support Israel at all it is for secular reasons), generally don’t think of Bush as a Christian and definitely don’t have the whole attitude of his policies being “Christian” and so forth. Most of the people in this category that I know tend to like Ron and Rand Paul (I know you don’t care for Rand, which is fine, but I think there’s an obvious difference in mindset between people who like Rand and people who like Jeb Bush or Christie… whether you actually think Rand is for real or not).

          Also, in my experience Calvinists are much less quick to automatically assume government control is the answer to a social problem than Arminians are (note that I am saying “Arminian” here, which is the doctrinal belief, not “Armenian” which is the race of people, in case any of you aren’t aware of the former and think I was talking about the race… I am not). Most of the time in my experience more Calvinistic/Reformed people are more open to the idea of legalizing drugs and getting government out of marriage than more “Fundamentalist” Arminian types.

          And, I should also mention that pretty much every serious Christian I’ve encountered, no matter what their theological persuasion, tends to be pro-life. I don’t know of any, and this includes me actually, that support “abortion rights.” I’m not looking to debate this again, I’m just bringing it up for a general assessment of what people’s mindsets generally are, in my experience.

          To make a long story short, there’s definitely a ton of brainwashing all the way around, but one’s theological persuasion, in my experience, often has an effect on how open to libertarianism one is.

          • I can’t help but wonder if the synagogues of Jesus’ day proudly displayed the flag of the Roman Empire…………

            • I would not be surprised!

              And, let’s keep in mind that organized (“catholic” – small “c”) Christianity became an adjunct of the state under the emperor Constantine and has been such ever since.

          • I doubt they displayed the flag of the Roman Empire proudly. The 1st century Jews hated the Romans. Keep in mind that the Pharisees hated Jesus in part because he would even eat with tax collectors. Note, however, that Jesus was seeking their repentance. Jesus ate with prostitutes as well, for the same reason (I understand that some people are going to protest “but there’s nothing wrong with prostitution” here… so I’ll simply say that for Christians there is and leave it at that). I cannot find anything in the Bible that would imply that “tax collectors” were anything but thieves.

            And yes, Constantine made a lot of things worse. Its worth mentioning that Samuel Adams criticized the Reformers for replacing the pope with the civil magistrate…

        • Very true, Eric! As a non-mainstream Christian myself, it has always disgusted me at not only how the mainstream “christians” worship the military/state, but how they’ll gladly send their kids off to kill and be killed for the cause of Jewish bankers and the progress of evil; while the Bible makes it clear that we should not be entangled in the affairs of this present system of things, nor engage in unprovoked violence, nor become “the servants of men” [And if one joins the military today, that is just what he is- a servant/slave. Which is also why it “kills me” when they say they are “fighting for our freedom”, because slaves don’t even have their own freedom, much less can they secure ours. In reality, by serving the traitorous crooks who rule the country, they are in-fact helping to destroy our freedom.]

          • Far too true.
            Even more “funny,” the ones who come back are stripped of their right to bear arms, blocked from medical care, and left to die.

            Truly “posessions” of the government – Slaves have more worth. Which is actually something I read elsewhere WRT cubefarm slavery.
            Just because our chains are gold, does not make them any less a chain.
            Slaves were kept fed, clothed, and healthy.
            Cubefarm Plantation Slaves are forced to pay for their own clothes, food, lodging – and then when they’re all used up, they’re replaced, and their name is forgotten before they even are out the door.

        • The last time I was in a church, (baptist), they started the service by doing the pledge of allegiance. As I flashed back to grade school, I also felt a wave of disgust pass over me.

          Church separate from state? not with these would-be theocrats.

          I’m all for liberty and I love fast cars.

          Statism, religious or otherwise, is antithetical to my existence.

          • In the middle of the regular service? Yuck. I would have walked out for sure. Our church doesn’t have any nationalism during the actual service, with the exception of when someone decides to pray for the troops during a public prayer from the pulpit. Usually the military mentions are brief, and its not like the prayers are scripted either (ie. its not like we PLAN to honor the troops in a prayer, someone just decides to do it some of the time.) And, even still I don’t like that that is allowed. There should be no mention of people “fighting for our freedoms” in church because our troops are not doing so.

    • Michael, when you saw a woman get up to speak at your church, you should have walked out right then and there, because such a church is blatantly apostate. If they will not obey the Scriptures even in a most basic matter such as that…what is left? It’s no wonder that the speaker aknowledged and encouraged worshipping the Beast. Their god is the state; not the God of the Bible.

      • Was the woman teaching from the pulpit? That’s the real question. IIRC the Biblical prohibition is on TEACHING. In our church we sometimes have women speak for reasons other than teaching (whether it be to make an announcement or so forth) but we’d never have a woman preach to the entire congregation.

        I’ve never walked out in the middle of a service. I think its unlikely I would. Any service that would be bad enough that I’d have to do that would likely be a service I would refuse to attend to begin with (ie. I would never attend a “God and Country” service just on principle.)

        • David, see 1 Corinthians 14:34 -a woman should not speak in the church. Perio.

          And someone speaking, who thinks that the sound of military aircraft is “the sound of freedom” clearly has no clue, and thus no business speaking regardless of their gender- and that would sure be enough to make me get up and leave.

          • It seems to me that verse 34 is in the context of prophesying, since 26-28 seems to suggest that anyone can share a hymn, “a word of instruction”, or a tongue. In context it seems to me that these verses are talking about leading in services or being disruptive, not speaking in any context whatsoever.

            That said, I agree with you on the other bit. Anyone who thinks the military is defending our freedom is woefully deceived. I wish we could get to a point where churches universally rejected such nonsense, but unfortunately I’m not really aware of any who reject it entirely.

        • teaching… OR having authority over the church, as in, leading in some specific capacity. As this one seemed to be doing…..

          • Is it wrong Biblically for a woman to have authority over other women or children in the church?

            I tend to think no since in 2 Timothy 2:11 Paul forbids a woman “To have authority over a man.”

  34. Further:

    “…Based upon the fundamental ground that the sovereign state has the plenary control of the streets and highways in the exercise of its police power (see police power, infra.), may absolutely prohibit the use of the streets as a place for the prosecution of a private business for gain. They all recognize the fundamental distinction between the ordinary Right of the Citizen to use the streets in the usual way and the use of the streets as a place of business or a main instrumentality of business for private gain. The former is a common Right, the latter is an extraordinary use. As to the former, the legislative power is confined to regulation, as to the latter, it is plenary and extends even to absolute prohibition. Since the use of the streets by a common carrier in the prosecution of its business as such is not a right but a mere license of privilege.”

    Hadfield vs. Lundin, 98 Wash 516

    “Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them.”

    Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491

    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime.”

    Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. 486, 489

    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional Rights.”

    Snerer vs. Cullen, 481 F. 946

    “The use of the highways for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common and fundamental Right of which the public and the individual cannot be rightfully deprived.”

    Chicago Motor Coach vs. Chicago, 169 NE 22?1;
    Ligare vs. Chicago, 28 NE 934;
    Boon vs. Clark, 214 SSW 607;
    25 Am.Jur. (1st) Highways Sect.163

    “The former is the usual and ordinary right of the Citizen, a common right to all, while the latter is special, unusual, and extraordinary. This distinction, elementary and fundamental in character, is recognized by all the authorities.”

    State vs. City of Spokane, supra.

  35. Say to the pig that pulled you over: “I’m claiming my common law rights. I do not consent to anything, nor will I enter into a contract with you. Did you observe me breach the peace and am I under arrest?”

    If not, hand him this piece of paper:

    “(Police officers) have no power whatever to arrest or detain a citizen for the purpose of questioning him or of facilitating their investigations. It matters not at all whether the questioning or the investigation is for the purpose of enabling them to ascertain whether he is the person guilty of a crime known to have been committed or is for the purpose of enabling them to discover whether a crime has or has not been committed. If the police do so act in purported exercise of such a power, their conduct is not only destructive of civil liberties but it is unlawful.” – Regina v Banner (1970) VR 240 at p 249 – the Full Bench of the Northern Territory Supreme Court

    “It is an ancient principle of the Common Law that a person not under arrest has no obligation to stop for police, or answer their questions. And there is no statute that removes that right. The conferring of such a power on a police officer would be a substantial detraction from the fundamental freedoms which have been guaranteed to the citizen by the Common Law for centuries.” – Justice Stephen Kaye – Melbourne Supreme Court ruling – 25 November 2011

    “There is no common law power vested in police giving them the unfettered right to stop or detain a person and seek identification details. Nor, is s.59 of the (Road Safety) Act a statutory source of such power.” – Magistrate Duncan Reynolds – Melbourne – July 2013

    NOTE: None of the above precedents have been overturned on appeal or in the High Court.

    It’s pretty obvious now that you should be able to just drive away, unless you’re actually being paid to be behind the wheel. If they try and harass or stop you, they can be up for civil damages. Say so – it’s your right.

    Helpful reading:

    Although Mary Croft is in Canada, it’s essentially the same in all countries with common law. Don’t submit to anything, as then you’ll be consenting to Admiralty law and Statute.

    • I’m with you in principle, Rev.

      But in practice – in the UnitedState – asserting yourself this way will make no impression on the porkers (or the courts). They’ll simply ignore “the law” – and do with you as they please.

      • Eric – I got the following at (link below). The PDF they let you download will not allow you to print but you can select all, past into Word, reformat and voilà> -Larry—Assert-Rights_10-copies

        Print the following at a six point font and hand it to the copper with your license when stopped.

        Statement – If Stopped or Questioned by Police or any Government Official
        “Officer, I Assert My Fifth Amendment Rights As Stated On This Card”

        Pursuant to the law, as established by the United States Supreme Court, my lawyer has advised me not to talk to anyone and not to answer questions about any pending criminal case or any other civil, administrative, judicial, investigatory or adjudicatory matter. Following his advice, I do not wish to talk to anyone about any criminal, civil, administrative, judicial, investigatory or adjudicatory matter, without my lawyer present. I waive no legal rights, nor give any consents, nor submit to any tests or other procedures, without my lawyer present. I ask that no one question or talk to me, without my lawyer here to advise me.

        I do not wish to answer any questions. I want to see my lawyer.

        Please call my lawyer immediately.
        See: Miranda v. Arizona, 86 S.Ct. 1602, 384 U.S. 436 (1966), Maness v. Myers, 419 U.S.
        449 (1975), Hoffman v. United States, 341 U.S. 479, (1951), Lefkowitz v. Turley, 414 U.S.
        70, 77 (1973), Kastigar v. United States, 406 U.S. 441 (1972).

        • Be careful with using lawyers Larry. They’re sworn to the courts and BAR first, then you. They thrive off human misery and would prefer you plead guilty to ensure more money goes into their system.

        • That’s one way to guarantee a ticket. If he asks you anything, make some shit up. It’s not like he’s going to follow up. Play their game and you’ll likely just get a warning. Do things “by the book” and the cop will, too.

          It’s all bullshit anyway, and everyone involved knows it.

          • If it’s all bullshit anyway – why do they do it?

            Maybe if we had a PURPOSE in life…? Other than f*cking other people?

          • Thus far I have not run into a problem telling a cop that I will not answer his questions. (I have a “rights card,” similar to the one Larry describes, that I use which is provided by my attorney.)

            Any criminal defense lawyer will tell you that most people are convicted by what comes out of their own mouths. Clamming up is generally the best practice when dealing with “law enforcement” goons. I have found that if they object, politely asking “Can anything that I say be used against me in a court of law?” will put things straight. Don’t even wait for a Miranda warning, put it right up front. Don’t give them any evidence. Make them work for it.

            Q: “How are you doing this fine evening, sir?”
            A: That’s none of your business, officer.

            Q: “Where are you going?”
            A: That’s none of your business, officer.

            Q: “Do you know why I pulled you over?”
            A: I will not answer any of your questions and I will not consent to a search.


            I have not gotten a ticket in a long time, but have always gone to court any time that it happened. (If everyone did this the ticket system would collapse under the load!) My objective in doing this is not simply just to “get out of” anything but to deliberately make it as difficult and costly for them as possible by using their own rules against them.

            Municipal courts are profit centers and I aim to make their encounter with me as unprofitable as possible whether I win or lose. You haven’t lived until you walk into court with a parking ticket to demand a long list of discovery items pursuant to the court’s own rules. The look on the judge and persecutor’s faces: Priceless.


      • Of course they’ll try Eric, but they’re not immune from civil suits. Record everything, preferably to a cloud service. Get out of your car and lock it. If they want to take your phone or do a search, refuse. Switch off your phone if not using it to record.

        Patriot Act doesn’t override common law.

      • Worse yet Eric, the pork will just blow you away in the interest of “officer safety”. Our police in Australia are not so trigger happy as American pork, Yet.

      • A few years back,my Father tried to get me a job with him.He drove a truck and was getting me a job driving a Forklift in the warehouse.Should have been easy ,seeing as I was the Shipping Manager for a Chemical Company for Fifteen years,right?All that was left to do was pass a physical.At the doctors office ,much to my shock I was told I would be given DOT CDL physical.You are now required to have a CDL to drive a forklift in a warehouse.Needless to say ,I failed because of bad eyesight.This was the beginning of my awakening because of losing a GREAT paying Union job,because of nonsense from our wonderful Government.

        • Hi getch46,

          I’ve heard about that. It’s terrible.

          And – as EightSouth observes – it’s hell working as an OTR trucker these days. Essentially zero latitude for individual discretion. The “driver” is almost completely under the thumb of 24-7 monitoring and control. It makes my teeth ache to drive any distance at Clover speeds in a car. I can’t imagine doing it in a big rig, for hours on end, every day….

        • Hi Klavdy,

          We beat you to it.

          Over here – in my state – they were called “abuser” surcharges. But the outcry was immediate and – for once – they were actually rescinded.

          • You might have been granted the appearance of having one a small battle.

            But have no doubts, the war against your freedom and the free market rages on everywhere on this planet.

            The “creators” of the abuser surcharges are still active and inventing new traps and snares. Albo & Kaine were the main two architects.

            David Albo
            Virginia House of Delegates – 42nd district – Assumed office 1994

            Timothy Kaine
            “I don’t have the ability to give driving instructions to 7 1/2 million Virginians, but hopefully the prospect of stiff fines will make people drive right,” said Governor Kaine, who has been pushing for the fees since taking office.
            Now United States Senator from VA.

            There are others behind this one bill. Instead of going further, take a look at what one parasite like Albo prohibited and punitively taxed in the same year as the abuser fees: 2007

            This one parasite dictates and brutally enforces all these things to 8 million allegedly free people. It’s beyond outrageous.
            Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were a bunch of ineffective pikers.

            The market holocaust is ongoing at a fevered pitch. Take out a sheet of paper and start listing all the things you used to be able to do, that now you can’t.

            You’ll run out of paper long before you run out of casualties of the market holocaust.

    • Rev, that is beyond the comprehension of the typical cop in the USA. The police, the judges, prosecutors, etc are IME a bunch of self-serving simple minded thuggish imbeciles. Asking them to understand such finer points of law, rights of man, etc is like asking a dog to play a game of chess. Even a friendly, playful, and well meaning dog is just going to swipe his paws across the board and knock the pieces down. A mean self-serving one is going to do a lot more damage than that. Same with those that populate the system in this country.

      You might get a good cop who will give you dumb looks, laugh, and then follow procedure or you could get a mean one that will become angry and throw the book at you and possibly beat you up too.

      To successfully argue with people who man this system in the USA it has to be done on a level they understand. That you know their laws better than they do and you’re more trouble for them than its worth. That’s how I have successfully dealt with cops. Anything beyond that is above their pay grade, intelligence, and enlightenment.

      But let’s say it can work. Just to get to work I have to convince something like 9 police departments. I know the real story as do you, but what’s the practical way to deal with it for someone who doesn’t stay in region of a single police department or wealthy enough to have it taken care of by others or use a loophole like Steve Jobs*?

      *under CA law plates weren’t required for something like 6 months or other oddly long period of time, so Jobs would get a new car every few months.

      • Reason to burn out a cop when passing through town. No reason other than, you have no motive, you have no presence, and you have opportunity.

        Same with other government officials. And I’m now at the point where it’s… All of them.
        Mayor? Councilman? Alderman? Chief or Police? USPS?
        All serve Mammon….

        So when you have a trip to make – say, going to visit people in Virginia, from Boston, when driving? Stop off at the governor’s mansion in NJ and burn it to the ground. (More a gesture than anything, since the governor’s not there.)

        But you were stopped for the night at a hotel, and the cell phone proves you were there, and hey – you’re not a resident anyway! No grudge, no motive – just making the world safe for Democracy, dontcha know…. 🙁 😛

        But if we don’t start doing such things NOW, to make the point – how long before we have no opportunity to do ANYTHING?
        Do we wait until .223 is $5 per shot? Until guns are illegal to own? Until the demographics ensure no whites get elected, and/or only socialists are elected? Until the police are arrecting citizens for exercising constitutional rights?

        Because we’re up to those first two, essentially… And have been for some time. Give the enemy time to dig in, you’ll pay one HELL of a price to recover that ground.
        How many people will have to die?
        Will there even be an opportunity, when the surveillance is truly 24/7/365 with GPS and predictive crime technologies?
        When every purchase is tracked for corellation? When every account of the average citizen is monitored? When there’s no way to obtain weapons? When only the elites have any capacity to travel, due to expense, or “terror lists,” or “computer error?” (Which of course isn’t really an error – it’s meant to make you wait and submit, to accept that travel in any way is a privilege – like the serfs of medieval history?)

        Waiting until it’s necessary, waiting for a “leader,” is a recipe for disaster.
        We need to take a page from Nike, and “Just Do It.” (And I need to take my own advise.)

        • I’m not advocating peaceful disarmament. But so what. You only take what you need from the thug who would put a boot to your neck. Don’t be a chicken little. No occupying force can stand up to a nation engaged against it.

          As far as, “just do it.” Just do what get arrested without your fellow man at your back? Go off like the lone ranger? Waiting sucks but if you pay attention there’s a lot of people pissed off and who will stay pissed off. So keep waiting! The opportunity when it presents itself should be pretty damn obvious because a tyrant can’t help but be a tyrant.

          • No occupying force can stand up to a nation engaged against it.

            You mean, like the way the Britons were able to throw the English out of what became England, the way the English were able to throw the Normans out of England, the way the Greeks were able to throw the Turks out of Turkey, the Arabs and Moors were able to throw the Spanish out of Granada, and so on?

            The only way that “works” is by claiming – sometimes even thousands of years later – that it’s not over yet wherever there is still opposition, and that wherever there isn’t any opposition that means that it could still have won if it had only kept on (and never mind if it was all physically removed, as in Granada).

            • So, the solutions are either:

              A) Raise arms now and attempt to reclaim control of the government without the support of the people.

              – or –

              B) Stick our heads in the ground because we can’t change anything.

              Am I understanding you right? I’d much rather be a realist, counsel caution, against fear and look to the future with some kind of hope.

              • There is a third way, Joe.

                I have no desire to “control the government.” Because I have no interest in controlling anyone.

                Accordingly, what I seek to do is contribute to the de-legitimizing of both government and control.

                Leave people be.

                If someone’s not harming you (or someone else) then he has an absolute right to be left in peace. To build whatever structure he likes on his land; to drive whatever kind of car he wishes to drive; to buy car/health insurance – or not – according to his own risk-benefit calculation. To not be compelled to pay out money for the benefit of other people; nor to compel others to pay out money for his benefit.

                That’s the object.

                And government is the enemy.

      • “But let’s say it can work. Just to get to work I have to convince something like 9 police departments.”

        You have to pick your battles. You may be perfectly entitled under the common law to legitimately make your own plates and travel freely upon the public highway, unfettered with license, registration, or insurance. However this means constant battles with every thug in every police department that you encounter. I know people who have gone this route. Unless you are in a very rural area you’re going to be buried in constant situations of being arrested and having your vehicle confiscated. (Though I remember that George Gordon used to say many years ago that he would make it so that every time they took his $100 Chevrolet his litigation would cost them $500, and he could find more $100 Chevrolets than they could find $500 to go after him each time. After a while he was known to them and they would leave him alone. That was a long time ago though, and police are more militarized and more vicious now. For those unfamiliar with him, see for info on George Gordon.)

        So I go along with the drivers license scam. What’s funny though is that I fit the profile of the “sovereign citizen/patriot” type they look out for whose papers would not be not in order. They no doubt expect to find a long rap sheet of “violations” when they see me going down the road in a shabby old car with inflammatory bumper stickers, and hey, didn’t I just scratch my ear in their general direction with my middle finger? But they just can’t find a damned thing when they check.

        • Agreed Jason:

          “You have to pick your battles. You may be perfectly entitled under the common law to legitimately make your own plates and travel freely upon the public highway, unfettered with license, registration, or insurance. However this means constant battles with every thug in every police department that you encounter. I know people who have gone this route. Unless you are in a very rural area you’re going to be buried in constant situations of being arrested and having your vehicle confiscated.”

          Make a fee schedule that defines how much it costs the police if they pull you over, fine you, arrest you without just cause etc. Then hand it in to your local cop shop.

          If they don’t rebut it for good reason (they can’t) within your specified 10 days or so, then that’s the price they pay for harassing you. Think about it. If a lawyer’s schedule of fees seems stiff, make one even stiffer. 500 bucks an hour is reasonable. If you submit a fee schedule to them, they have to pay for everything they do.

          I read of a case where the cops were tailing some bloke and wanted to pull him over, but they quickly shut it all down and ran the other way. Likely because the sarge at the station radioed them back and told them he’d be too costly to deal with.

      • Well-said, BrentP! Just wanted to mention: A recent court caee in NY documented that in that state, they will not hire anyone to be a cop who has an IQ above 104 !!! (A guy was suing them because he passed their tests, but they refused to hire him because his IQ was above 104. The guy lost; The fuzz won)- proving that not only are we dealing with idiots when dealing with cops; but that these bastids are essentially just mercenary rabble hikred by the state to follow orders. So what you say is correct: They will not even understand…much less care. They just do what those who provide their paycheck tell them to do, without conscience or thought. To try reasoning with one, or to try and invoke appeals to morality or law, is pointless. (And juries are just as bad these days- so even if ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N thinks it worth losing his freedom to later be vindicated by a jury….that will likely not even happen) – Losing one’s basic rights is bad. Losing all rights, including one’s freedom; and having to be confined in the belly of the Beast (in a jail cell) is even worse.

        • Moleman, if they arrest or detain you without just cause, such as dragging you out of the car after you’ve clearly noted to them that you don’t consent to any arrest or anything they demand (never resist tho.. just repeat that you don’t consent), then after the false arrest you can take them to civil court for damages. That’s where common law exists. State court uses only statute law, which is where cops mostly win. It’s a bank.

          Remember to be polite, so that you retain honour, which is important in law. Let them be the bullies.

        • Just do something about it Moleman. Everyone de-register their personal conveyances and not stop for cops. End up in jail? So what. How many of us can they jail before the cells are full? How many civil suits can they handle before they collapse. Don’t pay fines, rebut them. Fill up the courts. They’ll collapse within a week.

          • I tried to get this going, Rev. Remember “Throw it in the Woods Day”? I wrote an article about a year ago urging a mass civil demonstration along these very lines. It went nowhere, because I don’t have the mass audience of a tearful Glenn Beck or a swaggering bully like Bill O’Reilly. If I did manage to ever acquire such a mass audience, I am under no illusion as to what would happen to me. I’d either suffer an unexpected heart attack or my car would mysteriously explode or I’d be the victim of a random mugging that “went bad” … and so on.

    • Last I knew, most police officers are trained to not take anything other than the required government papers (Lic, reg, DOT Card, Medical Card, Drug Test card, Muffler Sniff papers, etc. They will even ask that you take your license out of any clear plastic protector. Years ago, a Law Office, issued Motorcyclists cards that they were to hand the police, stating that they knew their rights and were not giving any of them up but police wouldn’t take them.

    • ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N , everyone who tries that sh*t ends up in jail. What makes you think that those who will not obey even the written Constitution; their own laws; legal precedent; and who don’t give a DAMN about their neighbors freedom/rights/or property, are somehow going to be bound and feel obliged to honor Common Law, just because you show them a piece of paper? You think that that is going to make the lawless cops and judges and bureaucraps suddenly abide by the law? Such naïveté!

      This is about power; nothing else. They have it; you don’t. You see that gun and taser and club that the pig is toting? That’s what it is about. If the lawless cops; soldiers; judges; and politicians were bound by any law, we would not be in this fine mess to begin with- but since we do not have the power to compel them to abide by such laws, we now have this mess- and they will only laugh at your common-law ploys, because you, nor anyone else has the power to enforce them.

      The only way not to be subject to the injustices of a police state, is to remove one’s self from said police state. Pursuing that plan of action would be far more profitable than wasting your time learning the intricacies of a law that you can not enforce.

      People who think that the common-law will save them, ironically end up being the least free, because they are always the ones arrested and jailed and fingerprinted, because they are trusting in something which can not save them, because their oppressors are lawless and rule by power; not by law.

      The common law can no more save you than could it save a Jew from Hitler. Stop wasting your time, and actually Do SOMETHING that will preserve your freedom.

      • I am. Destroying speed cameras is my favourite hobby.

        Thing is, people naturally wind up in jail because they approach the situation wrong. They either yell at the cop or say things that get them incriminated. Cops are good at sucking out information.

        Most that are jailed can’t file a civil suit because they did something as above. Plenty of vids on youboob showing how it’s done.

    • Dear Rev,

      No libertarian is ever going to be fundamentally opposed to any maneuver that can perform an end run around goonvermin meddling.

      That is not the problem.

      The problem is, as Eric and others have said, the PTB and their costumed thugs, the LEOs, have become so arrogant and complacent about their power, that they will simply ignore any laws, statutory or common, and murder you outright. Recent first degree murders committed by LEOs have become more and more frequent.

      The “rule of law” was always a Big Lie. Many of us naively believed in it. But it was always nothing more than the “rule of those who make, interpret, and enforce the laws.” As one commentator put it, “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”

      • Bevin,

        As I stated earlier, I don’t know how Rev does it other than things are different where he lives. Where I am the cops are dumb. I am talking cartoon caveman dumb. They cannot comprehend this higher order stuff. They only know their training. Most are trained animals or drones, the brighter ones have no clue these concepts even exist. They know what their bosses said the law is, they know what they were told the law is, they don’t actually know the law, it’s history, common law, magna carta, it’s beyond them.

        In the USA Rev’s tactics would get me arrested or worse. There are two effective methods. One is playing the magic word lawyer game. This is what most videos on youtube about police encounters teach. Cops know this. This game is part of their training. It takes a rogue cop to ignore it, and if he does in court later the mundane will most likely win. The other is be more trouble than its worth to him. That’s the one I usually use. I show I know the law in detail and am likely to go to court and such. If they don’t have something that the kangaroo court rubber stamps or if there is an aspect that will embarrass them they will leave me be.

        • Dear Brent,

          If and when one can get away with it, by all means.

          Just don’t try the Irwin Schiff strategy for income taxes. As we know, the courts simply ignore the legal facts concerning the tax laws and throw anyone who refuses to pay them “their money” behind bars.


Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here