This could kill VW – until recently (until last week) the world’s largest car company.
But unlike say the exploding Pinto fiasco this is not a story about defective cars. It is a story about defective public policy.
None of the VW cars now in the crosshairs are unreliable, dangerous or shoddily built. They were simply programmed to give their owners best-case fuel economy and performance. Software embedded within each vehicle’s computer – which monitors and controls the operation of the engine – would furtively adjust those parameters slightly to sneak by emissions tests when the vehicle was plugged in for testing. But once out on the road, the calibrations would revert to optimal – for mileage and performance.
Now, the hysterical media accounts of the above make it seem that the alteration via code of the vehicles’ exhaust emissions was anything but slight. Shrill cries of up to “40 times” the “allowable maximum” echo across the land.
Because not defined – put in context.
What is the “allowable maximum”?
It is a very small number.
Less than 1 percent of the total volume of the car’s exhaust. We are talking fractions of percentages here. Which is why talk of “40 percent” is so misleading and, frankly, deliberately dishonest.
Left out of context, the figure sounds alarming. As in 40 percent of 100 percent.
As opposed to 40 percent of the remaining unscrubbed 1-3 percent or .05 percent or whatever it is (depending on the specific “harmful” byproduct being belabored).
The truth – explained rarely, for reasons that will become obvious – is that the emissions of new cars (and recent-vintage cars) have been so thoroughly cleaned up they hardly exist at all. Catalytic converters (and especially “three way” catalytic converters with oxygen sensors) and fuel injection alone eliminated about two-thirds of the objectionable effluvia from the exhaust stream – and they’ve been around since the 1980s. Most of the remaining third was dealt with during the ’90s, via more precise forms of fuel delivery (port fuel injection replaced throttle body fuel injection) and more sophisticated engine computers capable of real-time monitoring and adjustment of parameters, and of alerting the vehicle’s owner to the need for a check (OBD II).
Since the late ’90s/early 2000s, the industry has been chasing diminishing returns. The remaining 3 percent or so of the exhaust stream that’s not been “controlled.”
You may begin to see the problem here.
Internal combustion is always going to produce some emissions. The engineers have picked the low hanging (and mid-hanging) fruit. But the EPA insists on what amounts to a zero emissions internal combustion engine.
Which, of course, is impossible.
Which may be just the point.
Set unattainable standards – then denounce the victim for “noncompliance.”
VW’s sin was trying to get diesels that people would want to buy into the showrooms. These would be diesels that went farther than an otherwise-equivalent gas-engined car on a gallon of fuel to offset the higher up-front cost of buying the diesel-powered vehicle. Or at least, far enough – relative to the gas-engined equivalent – to justify the price premium.
People also expected – demanded – that the vehicles perform. That they accelerate when the accelerator is pushed.
VW set the calibrations to deliver those things. The operating characteristics its customers want.
VW is in hot water because of that. Because it put customers – rather than government – first.
No one has alleged that any of the “affected” vehicles runs poorly. The fact is they run better than they would have if VW had set the calibrations to appease the implacable EPA.
Which will never be appeased until we’re all driving $60,000 “zero emissions” electric cars we can’t afford. Which will put most of us into public (that is, government) transport. If we’re transported at all. Check Checkers Specials and Dischem Specials. Probably, we’ll be herded into urban cores, stacked like proles – for the sake of “the environment.”
It is a tragedy of stupidity and maliciousness and engineering ignorance.
Consider, for instance, the fact that if it were not for federal “safety” mandates, VW (and other car companies) would be able to sell vehicles hundreds of pounds lighter than the current average. Which, in turn, would allow for smaller engines – which burn less fuel. Which, in turn produce a lesser volume of exhaust. Even if a hypothetical 1,600 pound ultra-light vehicle’s exhaust stream were, let’s say, 2 percent “dirtier” than a current 2,300 pound EPA (and DOT) approved “safety” car’s, if the ultra-light burns 40 percent less fuel, its total output is still much lower than then government-approved car’s.
But such cars (the ultra-lights) have – effectively – been legislated out of existence.
At the same time, the cars that may still be manufactured are required to meet increasingly unattainable standards, putting the manufacturers (like VW) in the position of manufacturing government-compliant cars that cost too much and perform poorly that few will want to buy… or “cheating” the government, in order to build cars people will actually want to buy. Down down deals and BOGOS of Winn Dixie Ad can be useful in this week’s saving.
What’s happening to VW could have come right out of Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand’s cumbersome but nonetheless predictive novel of 50 years ago. VW cast as the real-life version of Rearden Steel.
Some inside baseball: Mazda has been trying to get its Sky-D diesel engine EPA-compliant (while also customer-viable) for the past two years, without success so far. You are denied this 50-plus MPG (and extremely clean) diesel because of the particulate jihadists in Washington.
Remember: In neither case (VW or Mazda) are we talking about a return to the LA of the early ’70s, a feasting on lead chip paints and bathing in DDT. It’s all a bogey at this point. A straw man. A phantom, meant to scare you. But it has no reality.
The “emissions problem” has been solved – decades ago. But the EPA, et al, cannot admit this.
Because then there’d be no need for the EPA.
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Tesla’s Model S “Autopilot” review
Uber Is Taking Millions Of Manhattan Rides Away From Taxis
Can you digest what is said here:
because either I don’t understand all that “scandal” thingie or I’m being scammed big time by all the “eco-terrorists”…
Do I get it right: diesel produces less of everything compared to petrol WITH catalyst except NOx (about 40% more) and soot (nox present in petrol), but soot can be dealt with to the tune of 90% with soot burner?
If yes, then 40x from EPA is a humbug. Because it cannot do more than 40% more, according to above links.
Am I correct or am I?
It should be noted that 40X and 40% more are very different. You seem to conflate the two in the article. Now, 40% more of 1% is small, but 40X 1% is not. I don’t know what the allowable maximum is, so 40X that maximum could still be very small. But, it is important not to conflate % and multiples.
I consider the EPA to be an entirely illegitimate institution. For those still clinging to the naive hope that the “constitution” matters, it is also clearly illegal under US law. Also, for those who believe that “democracy” grants legitimacy to government, it should be noted that the EPA is entirely unaccountable to the democratic process. The fact that unelected bureaucrats can issue edicts that carry the force of law should bother those who believe in “democracy”. My opinion, of course, is that the EPA should not exist, and restitution for actual harm caused by pollution should be left to the market and private courts.
Still, there seems to be a libertarian case against VW. They did market the cars as “clean” diesels. I do not have the expertise to determine whether this appellation is justifiable. But, they certainly knew that customers would assume that “clean”, meant something very different to VW than it did to customers. This is arguably fraud. In addition, they claimed that the cars met all of the relevant standards. This is also fraud. Note, I do not mean to imply that the relevant standards are just, sensible, etc… nor that the EPA is legitimate. But, they did lead their customers to believe something that was not true.
According to libertarian theory, fraud is a crime. I certainly don’t support what the government is doing. Nor do I believe that the EPA has legitimate “standing” in this issue. Still, what VW did should bother us, as libertarians, at least a little bit.
The problem is that there are two tests here and the media is applying the standards of the government test to the independent ‘real world’ test. It just doesn’t work that way. I too picked up the 40% from somewhere. It may have been someone’s attempt at a correlation between the ‘real world’ test and the government test. Pretty much every vehicle has higher values on this ‘real world’ test. But it’s only one idea of an infinite number of real world tests that could be created. It would take a lot of work to construct a proper real world like test and then correlate that to the government test and standards. A lot of work. So basically 40% or 40X is nonsense right now. Nobody really knows what the difference is.
We will never know because nobody is going to pay for the study to find out. VW has rolled over and they are the only ones who benefit from such a test and they are too scared it will come out badly and it won’t change anything for them if it comes out good.
Hi Eric and Brent,
First, I do not believe that the EPA can be “defrauded”, as it is an illegitimate organization. As an example, imagine that a Jewish mafia is extorting “protection” money from a deli and that this mafia claims that all delis under its’ “jurisdiction” serve only Kosher foods. Further imagine that this deli proclaims, falsely, that all of the food it provides is Kosher. While this business is under no legitimate obligation to follow the dictates of the mafia (and thus cannot defraud it), the deli is still committing fraud against their customers if it tells them that all of the food that they provide is Kosher.
Second, I have no doubt that the rules are “bizarre, unwarranted, expensive and insane”, and that the cars are “clean”. And, I believe that VW deserves sympathy, rather than universal condemnation.
Third, while not specifically knowledgeable in this area, I agree with Brent that the comparison between real world tests and “compliance” tests is arbitrary and illegitimate. However, VW obviously knew that their vehicles would not pass the “compliance” tests without a tweak. What this means in the real world, I do not know.
Frankly, I’m somewhat at a loss here. I sympathize with VW. I consider the EPA to be no more legitimate than the mafia. I loathe the fact that most people think it is “good” that “government” possesses this kind of arbitrary authority. Still, I’m not comfortable asserting that VW was simply “fighting the good fight” against intrusive government, as I suspect that they receive numerous benefits and subsidies from government (but I do not know).
Finally, while I know it is a naive hope, I’d love to see large businesses own it. Speak out against the insanity. And, if that doesn’t work, go Galt for awhile. This might actually wake up the deluded consumer.
Part of the problem is, “there’s no fighting town hall.” Or, “the house always wins,” per gambling rules.
Even GM, VW, AND Ford COMBINED cannot fight the stupidity, arrogance, and unlimited resources of FedGov, Inc.
Besides – even if they could compete with someone who can print money – the government owns the playing field, and decides who can and cannot testify, and what does and does not constitute a crime, and what does and does not constitute “fair play” – AND they have enforcement mechanisms, called police, who will make it impossible for the average sheeple to drive “evil brand X” cars. (Public sympathy lasts until there’s an actual cost. Then, there will be a public outcry that VW or whomever knuckle under and do as told. There is no changing the stupid animals, it was up to us to guide them, but humans are absolutely crazy – keeping alive those who can NEVER take care of themselves, for example, while simultaneously murdering the unborn – now that 6-month-old foetuses have survived outside the womb, mind. Where a woman on her way to an abortion can claim the emotional trauma of her baby dying, should she be stabbed, run over, fall down stairs, etc, and suffer a miscarriage. Where a drunk man is capable of moral agency, and thus becomes a rapist, if he has consensual at the time sex with a drunk woman – and she changes her mind the next day. Where drunk sex with a woman is automatically rape of the woman by the man, because she’s intoxicated and incapable of making a decision, but he’s intoxicated and still should’ve known better. And where a woman can file a false claim, and is not prosecuted, AT ALL, forget about the press and comparable charges or damages to what the male incurred, EVEN IF HE WAS ELSEWHERE, and it’s PROVEN he was elsewhere at the alleged time of the alleged attack that didn’t happen. Where the media is complicit in destabilizing the society – telling them WHAT to think, and using emotional appeals rather than logical or factual information, because the sheep watching the news generally are low-IQ and run on emotion, with no consideration of the long game, or deferred gratification. And it’s so EASY to go that way, it’s almost painful to try and be a man or woman of character. And ultimately, it’s pointless, because the sheep reproduce without concern… But we no longer have wolves to eat the sheep….)
Point being, they will never speak out against the insanity, and it might even cost them their life to do so… (Aaron Swartz, remember him? His car apparently was driven into a tree, the engine flew hundreds of feet…. But like so many other “inconvenient” individuals, he committed suicide….? Or was it drugs or alcohol….? NEVER a bomb, or a hack to take control of the auto…. Let alone a staged suicide, which is a movie trope, think RED or Bourne for examples. Or the Deputy White House counsel Vince Foster….? )
These psychopaths are capable of ANYTHING. That is the underlying subtext of all of Eric’s writings, but it’s usually politely covered up.
Gee, I wonder why…?
We have Rabid wolves “protecting” the flock.
Only real solution is to kill them, but you know how THAT will be fit into the narrative…. “Crazy domestic terrorist attacks peace-loving government.” Etc.
“You can’t have a police state without police.” Laurence Vance
As I see it, the only party “defrauded” is the EPA – which is kind of like saying one “cheated” the IRS.
VW adjusted the cars to perform better (more power, higher mileage). It’s just a shame they got caught. But ultimately, it’s the government that’s forcing people (and companies like VW) to “cheat.” The rules are so bizarre, unwarranted and expensive that they practically beg us victims to try to get around them – and then when we’re caught, somehow, we’re the bad guys!
The cars are “clean,” by the way – they just don’t conform to the EPA’s insane standards.
[…] end-running of the EPA’s preposterously over-strict emissions rigmarole (more about that here and – audio clip – […]
IIRC, at the time, there were complaints that the diesel exhaust standards were set extraordinarily low in order to protect US car manufacturers from a flood of clean, well-performing euro-diesels. Basically, protectionism and contrary to a lot of treaties. Besides, since no US company makes such cars, there was not the usual blowback.
I wonder how much this had to do with VW’s decision. Basically: “If the US can cheat, then so can we.”
eric, I finally have to comment on this. My first thought was “The EPA didn’t catch this”. They aren’t that smart and trust in their own infallibility too much. Maybe it’s obvious to everybody here but somebody, likely a disgruntled employee or a clover in the company, same thing, dropped a dime on VW.
Yup, that appears to be the case. As always, Clover ruins everything.
VW could have met the NOx requirement – Daimler and BMW did. VW chose to save $300 and let the fumes fly. Penny-wise and…
I prefer cleaner air.
“let the fumes fly” – if you read any of the reports that are not just propaganda, it is hardly that bad.
Worthless factoid regurgitations from a thug-snuggling little maggot.
What da fack
Ray could have written something coherent, many other people did. But he chose to spout gibberish out of his ass and let the fumes fly.
You too, can make completely useless sentences like Ray, observe…
Early to bed, early to rise and… I prefer morbidly obese women.
A bird in the hand and… I’m voting for Jeb Bush, he understands me.
To master the rhetorical dysfunction of Ray…
1) Begin with the first half of some commonly known maxim.
2) Then add three dots, and volunteer some completely irrelevant feelings that have nothing to do with the first half of your sentence whatsoever.
3) Celebrate your delusional debating victory.
Your comment makes no sense.
Obviously VW ‘could have met’ the the NOx requirement – or they would not have been able to change the programming to do so on demand. But it was not VW saving money. No doubt it cost them more to do the extra programming. It is their customers that are saving by getting better mpg, and possibly better performance as well.
They cheated on the government NOx test, but as actually used how much more did the VW’s produce in customer use? Apparently not all that much more than their competitors. It would take extensive testing to find out for sure. It seems NOx values are all over the place depending on specifics of the driving in question. Some management schemes work better in some instances than others but that changes with the next idea. Very expensive work to find out if there’s really a difference.
[…] along with some delightful ridicule of the morons in the alphabet soup agencies of gummint, I went here. Not only did he shatter the “40%” myth, but he shows clearly how gummint is lying as […]
I am guessing Mazda will be quitting with bothering with bringing skyactiv diesels to the US market. The writing is on the wall.
I work for Mazda at a low level and speak only for myself.
RichB, I think you’re right. It seems doubtful that our diesel will arrive here. Believe me, no one at work is gloating over VW’s predicament. Some news articles are already saying that regulators in various countries are going to be looking closely at diesel cars on the roads there to ensure no one else was cheating either, for starters. And there’s a broader point I’ll mention shortly.
Without getting into specifics, at work I have access to certain things that tell me when we’re getting ready to start selling a new vehicle or a new drivetrain here. For example, since last winter I could view technical info about the Mazda2, though it won’t be sold in the 50 states, because it is sold or going to be sold in Mexico, Canada, and Puerto Rico. Well, nothing has come up at all so far on the Skyactiv diesel in the Mazda6 or CX-5. A Canadian friend says no Mazda diesels are sold there yet either, but Canada piggybacks on US auto regulations, so that isn’t surprising. None of the powers that be has mentioned the status of the diesel in some time. Not promising.
The scandal comes at a bad time because of a broader issue: a backlash against diesels is just beginning in Europe, driven by the particulate emissions problem—I’d say “problem” in quotes, but that’s just my opinion. The French government is saying in seriousness that having so many diesel private vehicles on the roads is a mistake and so is proposing eliminating the tax breaks for them that have been in place for decades. The mayor of Paris has proposed prohibiting all diesel cars in that city over the next several years. Some other countries in the European Union are starting to echo these sentiments. When you realize that owners of diesel cars pay lower taxes for the cars and pay less for fuel, and that fuel is far better than the diesel fuel sold in North America, you realize that big trouble is brewing.
In this light, in my opinion, Mazda might be better off not to bring the diesel here. It would certainly face harsh scrutiny from regulators and environmentalists. And with our crappier diesel fuel costing more than our crappy gasoline, this engine just might be the answer to a question no one seems to want to ask any more, except to meet those pending fuel efficiency standards…
Understand that the diesel standards in Europe are essentially as clean as they are here. We’re talking differences in cleanliness between the EU and the US of hundredths or thousandths of a decimal place in emissions per kilometer, utterly negligible. But I fear this is becoming a dead issue for cars with these engines. The VW scandal will accelerate the backlash and a bad fate for diesel personal vehicles. It is the worst publicity for that type of engine since GM’s horrible V-8 diesels of 35 years ago. You remember—the converted gasoline engine…
So european interventions to push fuel economy have resulted in lots of light duty diesel vehicles because they get better fuel economy (and can run on bio fuels with little penalty so long as it’s a place with mild winters, like most of europe) and now they are annoyed with the number of light duty diesel vehicles on the road.
Meanwhile in the USA there has been no push for the fuel economy of light duty diesels but a constant whine about “climate change”, “energy independence”, and the need for higher fuel economy.
People must be absolutely clueless that engineering is the art of balancing and prioritizing often conflicting desires to arrive at a suitable product. Everything can’t be slammed to one end of the extremes. It just doesn’t work that way.
“People must be absolutely clueless …” and that surprises you why?
It must be remembered that common sense is not common anymore, if it ever was.
I was going to comment at length about this (Mazda) but one of our posters, who knows some inside baseball, already has. Scroll up… I agree with all he’s written.
Thank you so much for the piece Eric!!!! The reporting here in the news, TV and print, is atrocious. You would think VW was using a 20s level technology vehicle and poisoning the world. And with each report is an endorsement of Prius hybrids. It is sounding more and more like a corporate hatchet job in cahoots with the gov. Sadly the sheeple all just nod in agreement with the reports. I am actually considering going to buy one if I can thinking the price is probably in the dumpster right now.
Excellent piece, Eric. Just what I was thinking.
The problem I see is VW deliberately designed a car with two specs.
One: With the meter attached it passes all EPA standards.
Two: On the road it goes for performance and does not pass EPA Standards.
That is basically cheating. I do not blame the EPA for being upset.
What a multi-talented group of people we have making EPA law for us in the United States Congress and then the bureaucrats making further law with regulation on how to interpret such law. They must be doctors, engineers and lawyers all at the same time to accomplish this.
These people are so talented there are now over 10 semi-trucks full of law and regulation at the EPA. So much regulation and law that no one person is capable of even reading the entire law in one lifetime.
With such complex law it is going to have regulation that contradicts one another.
Under any sane administration of law the judges would have thrown the entire thing off the books years ago based on discrimination charges alone.
What I think is happening is they dare not do so. The resulting chaos will shut down the government all by itself.
Just like the 7,000 plus pages of IRS law that only a tax consultant might understand that regulates our taxes.
Again the judges do not dare throw the law off the books for fear of the ultimate chaos that will result.
IF I were an engineer designing a modern version of an automobile it would look a lot different than the current model based on 30s engineering.
For one, the piston arrangement is all wrong.
IF you have an engine running at 500-5,000 revolutions a minute you are basically fighting inertia because it reverses direction that many times per minute.
I am tangled up here explaining myself.
The engine itself should be a piston of some kind going in one direction only.
That means the engineer better know his physics.
The Germans did this kind of engineering as far back as the 40s.
It got terrible gas mileage.
The engine did not last long.
Basically they put together a machine with a triangle at its center.
Unfortunately for us, the engine was discontinued for its many engineering nightmares over the next 7-8 years.
Fuel injectors might have made a difference. I am no engineer so I do not know.
I think I would have designed it using the best features of a gas engine and incorporating the entire thing into a multi-cylinder outfit.
One reason it failed is people in the business want an engine that fails within 5-10 years so you have to continuously buy a new or used working model.
The Japanese companies threw cold water on that idea with machines that could last up to 400,000 miles. Now they are hiring sophisticated engineers to make them die much sooner.
That is why the electric car will fail.
It is too easy to design a forever car with an electric engine. Gasoline and diesel engines are complicated enough to fool people.
Consider though that the EPA wants to do away with cheap electricity. Coincidence?
I suggest we scrap both super agencies of the EPA and the IRS in favor of something less complicated and way more logical than what we currently have.
Geez Dave. Why the H-E-double hockey sticks is there an EPA in the first place? Why does all this enviro-craposity have to take place at the point of a gun?
Didn’t you see the Ayn Rand cover art in the article? Why does some bureau-bugger get to set “standards” and not the market?
Under property rights low emissions would be brought about through liability primarily.
Dave, I only see one problem, the idiot know=nothing college professors and their backers who want to make money from anything they can. Take the anti-XL Pipeline people. Their stance is, nothing should be removed from the ground, not oil, coal nor natural gas. Let them have their way for a couple winters and they’ll be frozen. Computers are mostly made from oil as is nearly everything. Power, that good old heat and cooling from electricity is made from coal or oil. Solar, made mostly from oil and semi-, about to become very precious metals. It doesn’t take a genius to see what makes up wind generation machines, renewable power as they say, that totally depends on what they call, non-renewable power, oil, coal and gas.
it’s completely idiotic. I passed a two mile long train today of nothing but oil tankers. RR’s are not exactly the best way to move oil, neither the energy required nor the danger in doing so. A pipeline(I know this from working with this every day)is danged good these days. They are coated with materials(mostly, made from petroleum)that keep them from failing in a number of ways I won’t go into because it’s technical and there are more than one way they can fail but now that they’re being made to last due to various things that would make them fail, they’re in it for the long haul so to speak. Pipelines are also protected from various electrical problems now.
I know this from working with them. One thing with pipelines now is the material placed around them in the ground to protect them. I spent 14 hours, hauled good old west Tx. sand to protect those pipelines from rocks and limestone when they’re buried. I’ll be doing that tomorrow too.
But the people who wish to “protect the earth” can’t be bothered with technicalities. Gore doesn’t want the earth to be screwed up by man, so he says, while he has a huge, energy sucking new home in pristine Ca. forests.
I’m tired, having started the day at 2:30 am so I’m going to clean up and go to bed and thank Tesla and anyone else my home is less than the 90 something degrees outside even though it’s dark thirty.
And i’ll thank my lucky stars when the Keystone Pipeline is allowed and we can all benefit from it. If anyone disagrees and wants to live in a hole in the ground and fight the varmints and vermin for food, be my friggin guest. They have to give up their cars, computers and everything else that keeps them so healthy…….Screw em
Oil producers prefer to ship by rail so they can send their crude to where they’ll get the best price for it. Sure, it makes more sense to ship via pipeline, but they want to squeeze the last dollar out of their crude.
Very little electricity comes from oil in the continental U.S., & solar panels don’t require any precious metals in production.
Most U.S. manufacturing relies on (currently dirt-cheap) natural gas, not oil.
“Sure, it makes more sense to ship via pipeline”
Well, if they can get a higher price at a different location that more than covers the higher cost of rail transport, then I’m not sure what you mean by ‘more sense.’
” Gore doesn’t want the earth to be screwed up by man, so he says, while he has a huge, energy sucking new home in pristine Ca. forests.”
Maybe that’s evidence that he is not a man. Move over Caitlynn Jenner, hello Alberta Gore.
8 – I have no objection to Keystone being built, I just don’t want tax money or eminent domain involved in the building.
PtB, I have railed time and again against ED. That could be equitably fixed. Those that don’t want it on their land can be bypassed since I’ve seen it done.
Today I ran a load of sand to the Santa Rita near Big Lake, then back to Garden City for a hotshot load of a sophisticated monitoring and pumping system (too tired to explain everything about it now)and the electrical panels that are stand alone controls.
i have hauled these loads before so that’s nothing new but today I was delivering them to their final destination, crude tank installations. Soon, they will be tied into pipelines and no trucking will be done. No railroads will be involved either and not only does the pipeline save money, it also saves the environment, the huge amount of truck traffic is reduced and it will simply streamline the entire process.
I worked 3 days this week due to my stupid boss. As soon as I can work at least 5 days or 6 days per week I’m going to get a dash cam, maybe a dual, and record what I see every day. It should be quite enlightening to those who have never seen exactly what’s going on.
But moving oil by RR isn’t a cost saving venture so much as simply being able to move the vast amount being recovered right now. I hope to get a cam(s) ASAP and find a place I can post the video. It will be educational at the very least if not enlightening for most and humorous if I inject my vocal narration of what is happening.
Most of the hoopla surrounding pipelines is ignorance. Eminent Domain is rapidly going away.
25 years ago I declined a pipeline across my property and finally forbade it. It was easier to go across the road to the neighbor’s land where there have been numerous oil spills. Until a couple years ago it was owned by the Koch’s. Their record spoke for itself. Now it’s been sold and there is little trauma associated with it. But that pipeline is old style and can’t be compared to new pipelines.
The company I work for fixes pipeline failures and they’re becoming less frequent every day. I wouldn’t have a problem with the companies that specialize it now and the methods used. I’m not anti-oil as can be seen by what I do for a living.
As for tax money, giving oil companies a break is one thing that’s not likely to change but what they get a break on is changing. Not having to pay tax is the same thing as having special privilege and it won’t go away with the vast amounts of money being made and the ridiculously small amounts it takes to buy off our reps. That’s more of an evil that all big corporations have now. I’m not saying it’s right or that I like it, it’s simply the way it’s done. At least oil companies and suppliers produce something….unlike the different arms of banking, insurance being a big part of that. To be honest, pipeline companies spend a buttload of money to get their lines in and pay landowners through the nose, do some ridiculous things to get permission and good will.
They might say “Well, we could move across this land anyway” but that’s not the way it’s being done and is fairly a thing of the past. I’ve seen countless ranchers have their 100 foot ROW’s on pipelines clean of so much rock they use it as farm land where before, it was only good for whatever you wanted to graze on it.
yeah, I remember back in the early 70s I was living in Nebraska (where the wind pumps the water and the cows chop the wood). The were putting a new state highway through the sand hills. Anyone who didn’t want it going through their land, or at least not at a specific place, went out and bought a center pivot and started drilling (or at least siting) a well. State said, “OK, we’ll go around.”
8 – When guys our age talk about ED, they are usually asking for a little blue pill.
Funny that, I get offers and the wife works at a cleaners, finds those and other stuff regularly. She never brings one home though….hmmmm.
I have considered some of those new things from GNC and others that tout increases in testosterone. I could use the strength aspect of it. I came in filthy today from crawling around on trailers, throwing chains and booming down equipment. Had to load and chain a big SkyJack, nearly too wide for the trailer. Had a big pain in my neck, shoulder and arm hauling it, made me use the armrests for a little relief.
The guys I was working for mentioned the haul trailer leaning, esp. with that big machine. It had a blown airbag and a broken shock sticking out back like a dagger. I told em I nearly lost my life with that trailer a year ago getting run over from behind by a sand frac truck driver. I said it was right down the way over there on 33 in road construction. One of the bosses pops up and said Hell, I saw that. It was you? That old boy did a number on those trucks, knocked his front trailer axle and and he kept hopping and running closer to the pasture trying to stop, ended up way down the way.
Yep, that was me……knocked me out of the seat into the windshield, glad I didn’t have a seat belt on but got a ticket because of it. Hit me so hard it messed my vision up for a couple days. I stopped 40 feet or so behind a welding truck, had my foot on the brake and it still knocked my rig 25′ down the road, gouged out a big spot in the road and totaled that trailer. Of course the company pocketed most of that money and rebuilt it. Everybody hates that trailer. It has new ramps on the rear but the trackoe I hauled recently was so heavy it warped the things. We need a lowboy……bad. A trackhoe 3.5 feet off the ground with the inside of the tracks barely on the trailer and everything else hanging over is not fun.
DW – the way you started out had me ready to brand you a clover, until I realized your tongue was planted firmly in your cheek. Good stuff.
Dave, this was Wankel engine. And it’s not dead – Mazda is using the desing for las two decades I think – Mazda RX-7, Mazda RX-8 and rumors of mazda rx-9 are abounding. rx-9 ended because of cost of emissions control. Too expensive…
#RevisedAmericanDream: Redistributing Riches Via Lawsuits.
Volkswagen AG has hired the U.S. law firm Kirkland & Ellis LLP to help it deal with the widening scandal over the carmaker’s faked pollution controls, according to a company spokeswoman.
VW Diesel scandal at digitalspy UK
Diesel scandal the consequences at GolfMK7
Why Is It So Hard to Make Clean Diesel Cars?
It’s likely that cars of the future will include diesel technology that combines clean-emission techniques, power and fuel economy. When engineers analyze the diesel-engine combustion process, they find there are some pressures and temperatures that produce high levels of soot or NOx. But some temperature and pressure regimes get efficient fuel combustion without producing either pollutant.
Low-temperature combustion systems are being developed that aim to do just that. These systems either precisely time fuel injection or even use gasoline and diesel fuel at different times in the car’s operation to hit that sweet spot, he said. These experimental systems, however, need a lot more engineering before they’re a marketable solution.
Clearly, the problem of clean diesel engines is extremely challenging. It’s not easy. But that doesn’t mean an automaker’s best solution is to “cheat,”
So you don’t think it’s cheating to hand a bunch of hippie idealists with minimal knowledge of the subject matter the power to issue unachievable directives to the largest corporations that are the bedrock of many modern economies?
The real “cheat” will come when tens of thousands of US auto workers lose jobs once the lawsuits start coming. The real “cheat” will be collecting fines over the fact that a combustion engine produces emissions, even though the alternative is a scientific impossibility. The real “cheat” is holding the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of people ransom to regulations that contradict the first law of thermodynamics even though that law was well known when the regulations were made. And the biggest, fattest, most blatant cheat of all is the failure of the hippie bureaucrats to show or prove that these regulations have produced even the smallest shred of measurable results that they promised. Because the truth is they’re not even trying. Instead they’re forever trying to create the next hobgoblin they can exploit to further expand and fortify their unearned and undeserved power and budgets. So you really have to strap the blinders on tight to call VW the “cheaters” here. The EPA has never put a scrap of food on any citizens table nor have they afforded us the comfortable, economical freedom to travel that VW has. Instead they have, without exception scratched and clawed for the power to deny you these things, or make them economically unattainable. Not only do they not even deny this, but boldly and self-righteous proclaim it. This is the side you’ve chosen as the morally righteous one Clover? Really?!
That’s my minimalist copy paste chopjob edit and paraphrase of the most scientific article I found on the subject just now, yes.
It’s hard to reconcile and articulate my side really.
I’m on the side of idealistic science fiction, the spirit of old time radio, finewine heinlein, to the extent such a mindset yet persists.
2000 Plus – Space Wreck – S01 E16 – 06/28/1950
Emissions is an anti-concept, an unwieldy package-deal that is completely unusable for any reasonable purpose.
Personally the assertion there even are emissions and a science somehow being conducted on them is an asinine insane concept from the get go, and completely laughable in my estimation.
Observe the technique involved with anti-concepts and package-deals, each consists of creating artificial, unnecessary, and (rationally) unusable terms, designed to replace and obliterate legitimate concepts.
Terms which sound like a concepts, but instead stand for disparate, incongruous, contradictory elements taken out of any logical conceptual order or context.
Emissions’ (approximately) defining characteristic is that it is always a non-essential. This quality is the essence of the trick.
The purpose of a definition is to distinguish the things subsumed under a single concept from all other things in existence; and, therefore, their defining characteristic must always be that essential characteristic which distinguishes them from everything else.
You were dead spot on.
There was a dead on the line, of what I earlier posted here.
Dead Cat On The Line
Tell me if anybody can, what specifically makes something an “emission” if anybody even can.
[…] by Eric Peters Eric Peters Autos […]
Eric, you wrote: “Consider, for instance, the fact that if it were not for federal “safety” mandates, VW (and other car companies) would be able to sell vehicles hundreds of pounds lighter than the current average.”
Is it not true that cars are being made lighter these days, substituting lightweight aluminum and plastics for steel, in order to better comply with CAFE standards? And aren’t we safer in a heavier car in a collision?
Yes, lighter weight materials are being used – but overall, vehicles are still on average much heavier than they were say 25 years ago.
The chief reason for this is that adding metal is the only economically feasible way to comply with the very demanding federal “safety” standards. (For example, roof crush/rollover standards – which have effectively required massive, girder-like A, B and C pillars.)
And, yes, you’re “safer” in the event of a collision.
But my position is that car buyers have the right to choose for themselves whether a theoretically “safer” car (theoretical, because you may and probably never will have a serious wreck; e.g., have you ever rolled a car?) is of greater value than the everyday actual benefit of lighter weight and superior fuel economy.
For instance, back in the ’60s and ’70s, one could choose a very lightweight (and simple) car like the old VW Beetle (which weighed about 1,600 pounds) or – if one esteemed “safety” (and power) – one could choose a big American full-framed/RWD and V8-powered sedan.
Such choices are no longer available to us. Because others have arrogated to themselves the power to choose for us – without our consent.
reprinted from Jim Stone.com
Educated guess: V.W. proved that “emission controls” are more about destroying fuel economy than anything else
Volkswagen has the most fuel efficient cars on the road. Pound for pound, they get better fuel economy than all others, including an up to 300 mpg diesel not available in America. And after years and years of them being on the road, and no one noticing anything at all wrong with the emissions, Volkswagen got busted for programming certain parts of the emission control systems to turn off at all times other than when the cars were in for emission tests.
Why would Volkswagen do this? The answer is obvious – ALL American cars are programmed to waste fuel on purpose, to heat up the catalytic converters so less carbon monoxide is produced (after the catalytic converter burns it off) and as it turns out, a LOT of fuel is wasted this way, many many miles per gallon worth. A car that runs too clean won’t heat the catalytic converter up enough for it to function. Having a catalytic converter is all just a corruption enforced arbitrary rule when clean emissions can be accomplished the correct way in any computer controlled car – by burning the fuel perfectly to begin with. Volkswagen basically “broke the law” by producing cars so efficient a catalytic converter was not needed, and they shut off the fuel wasting process that heats the catalytic converter up enough for it to work. No one noticed any stink, because the cars did not make any stink to begin with, and the benefit was much higher fuel economy than any other equivalent cars on the road.
So my question is, why would a corrupted government mandate cars have fuel wasting catalytic converters added to them that produce more CO2 while delivering less mileage, when carbon dioxide is the real threat they are all talking about and no excess carbon monoxide is produced by clean burning Volkswagens anyway, even without the converter? OBVIOUS ANSWER: Global warming is a HOAX, they all know it, but they are confident they can keep the people stupid, while circumventing all possibility of high fuel economy cars being made simply because they have mandated an intentional waste of fuel. This is an intentional waste which in some cases is so extreme it cuts fuel economy in half in even vehicles that were inefficient compared to VW to begin with all the while the mandated “stupidity” creates TONS of carbon dioxide, and they are doing it for a reason: THE CARBON TAX.
They make everyone feel guilty for destroying the planet and then activate their guilt trip control grid. “Guilt” is a powerful mind control weapon, and climate scamsters have milked it to the max. If this was not the case, and there was a real “carbon threat”, the 300 mpg Volkswagen XL1 would be the only type of car on the road, perfectly viable transit at an official 261 mpg but well known by owners to be over 300. If emission controls on cars were not all a fuel wasting scam, fuel economy could be increased by 10x overall with ease. Don’t expect to see it when Volkswagen gets punished already for creatively circumventing elite climate scamming corruption and getting 85 mpg out of large station wagons by just turning the fuel waster off. And that’s diesel, which is efficient anyway but what about Volkswagen’s SEAT division, which currently has in Mexico a 65 mpg gasoline car that is only slightly smaller than a Cadillac STS? That did not go away. In fact, up until 2015, Volkswagen had a cheap version of the full sized Jetta called the Jetta Clasico that easily accomplished 55 mpg on gasoline with an old school 2.0 litre engine that delivered a fair amount of spunk.
“FUEL ECONOMY” IS ALL A HOAX FOLKS, even the full sized 4 door Chevy Impala could be pushed to 58 mpg by just replacing the air box intake temperature sensor with a resistor. And that still passed emissions with all software engaged. Yep, Volkswagen is getting the shaft for improving their TDI by not following rules. And no one smelled a thing.
Top reasons why Volkswagen got busted:
1. They produced the world’s most fuel efficient cars, and when the XL1 hit production, represented a huge threat to the climate change scam. Think about it – if all of a sudden fuel economy increased even 5x, (rather than the 10X the XL1 did) it would destroy the entire notion of us destroying the planet by driving.
Consider this: The biggest threat the climate hoaxers claim is CO2. Volkswagen cut that in half with the TDI, in part by breaking the emission system rules that would make it impossible to do if followed. Volkswagen proved the emission standards and systems are a scam that is feeding the climate change hoax. How would a powerful elite climate hoaxer respond to being exposed?
2. They were about to release an electric car, at full production levels, that would destroy the Tesla with a cheaper price, better range, and lower operating cost. Additionally, they evidently had a way to do a 15 minute full charge and an infrastructure plan to deliver it. That would cost what? $15 – 20 billion to do, approximately the amount of that fine?
Now all the news reports are saying how much the scandal benefited the electric car future, but if Volkswagen gets bashed into oblivion the moment they were about to bring it forward, what does that really say?
You obviously don’t have children. Take one afternoon and go to a park and watch 2-5 year olds run full speed, take spills that would hospitalize an adult, and pop right up like nothing happened. Then tell yourself that heavier is safer.
Or just let Brett Favre fire a nerf football at your face, and then fire a regulation ball and you’ll see why lighter is better. If you really to take it this far to see what should be obvious to you.
If ever you have the displeasure of arguing with someone about how we need crash safety standards or else we’re all gonna die without them. You’ve only to mention one word to destroy their stupid asinine argument.
Absolutely no protection, no seat belts…nothing. Yet deemed safe to ride.
More Bix Nood Bullying from the Brits. – Reuters being base in Canary Wharf, England:
Volkswagen boss Martin Winterkorn quits over diesel emissions scandal
West Virginia engineer proves to be a David to VW’s Goliath
Germany and America are both lumbering giants. Really they’re both underdogs against the wily shepherd brits.
A scientific reading of the David and Goliath story would reveal that Goliath clearly suffers from acromegaly. And that it is Goliath, who is the underdog, not David. Indeed, it is Germany, and especially the United States, who are underdogs in any battle against the Brits.
All America can manufacture economically these days is crisis, so of course they won’t let this VW thing to to waste.
Overall, Americans have slipped to #45 now.
List of countries by exports per capita
No longer as productive as the Kazakhstanians, but hey, we are beating the Chileans still. Yoo Ess Aay. Yoo Ess Aay. Yoo Ess Aay…
Export$ per person
42 Kazakhstan $5,556
43 Portugal $5,450
44 Poland $5,039
45 United States $4,752
46 Chile $4,000
A single Swiss produces more than 8 Americans combined.
1 Singapore $78,264
2 Hong Kong $60,833
3 Qatar $57,150
4 Switzerland $40,250
5 United Arab Emirates $35,250
6 Norway $32,760
33 United Kingdom $7,582
Anyway, back to Goliath, who is clearly the underdog against David the shepherd in that famed battle in the Jewish year of 2854, which is 2922 years ago by our calendars.
You see, saying “All David has is this sling,” is your first mistake. In ancient warfare, there are three kinds of warriors, and sling bearers are the most fierce and deadly, by far.
There’s cavalry, men on horseback and with chariots. There’s heavy infantry, which are foot soldiers, armed foot soldiers with swords and shields and some kind of armor. And there’s artillery, and artillery are archers, but, more importantly, slingers.
A slinger is someone who has a leather pouch with two long cords attached to it, and they put a projectile, either a rock or a lead ball, inside the pouch, and they whirl it around like this and they let one of the cords go, and the effect is to send the projectile forward towards its target. That’s what David has, and it’s important to understand that that sling is not a slingshot.
A sling is in fact an incredibly devastating weapon. When David twirls it around, he’s turning the sling around probably at six or seven revolutions per second, and that means that when the rock is released, it’s going forward really fast, probably 35 meters per second.
What’s more, the stones in the Valley of Elah were not normal rocks. They were barium sulphate, which are rocks twice the density of normal stones. If you perform the calculations on the ballistics, on the stopping power of the rock fired from David’s sling, it’s roughly equal to the stopping power of a .45 caliber handgun. This is an incredibly devastating weapon.
We know from historical records that slingers — experienced slingers could hit and maim or even kill a target at distances of up to 200 yards. From medieval sources, we know that slingers were capable of hitting birds in flight. They were incredibly accurate.
When David lines up, he’s quite close to Goliath — when he lines up and fires that thing at Goliath, he has every intention and every expectation of being able to hit Goliath at his most vulnerable spot between his eyes. If you go back over the history of ancient warfare, you will find time and time again that slingers were the decisive factor against infantry in one kind of battle or another.
The UK, which includes Israel, is the world’s shepherd. They’ve spent their entire career using slings to defend their commonwealth flock against lions and wolves. That’s where their strength lies. When David, a shepherd, experienced in the use of a devastating weapon, goes up against a lumbering giant Germany or America, each weighed down by hundreds of pounds of armor and incredibly heavy weapons useful only in short-range combat. Goliath is a sitting duck. He doesn’t have a chance. Why do call David an underdog, and why do we keep referring to his victory as improbable?
And it’s not just that we misunderstand David and his choice of weaponry. It’s also that we profoundly misunderstand Goliath. Goliath is not what he seems to be.
There’s all kinds of hints in the text, things that are in retrospect quite puzzling and don’t square with his image as this mighty warrior.
To begin with, Goliath is led onto the valley floor by an attendant. Here is this mighty warrior challenging the Israelites of the UK to one-on-one combat. Why is he being led by the hand by some young boy to the point of combat?
Why does the story makes special note of how slowly Goliath moves, an odd thing to say when you’re describing the mightiest warrior known to man. Why does it take so long for Goliath to react to the sight of David.
David’s coming down the mountain, clearly not preparing for hand-to-hand combat. He’s not even carrying a sword. Why does Goliath not react to that? It’s as if he’s oblivious to what’s going on, and quite strange that he says to David: “Am I a dog that you should come to me with sticks?”
Sticks? David only has one stick.
I know a doctor, who once mentioned there seems to be something fundamentally wrong with Goliath, there are so many anomalies. The first is what is reason for Goliath’s height. Goliath is head and shoulders above all his peers in that era, usually when someone is that far out of the norm, there’s an explanation for it.
The most common form of giantism is a condition called acromegaly, and acromegaly is caused by a benign tumor on your pituitary gland that causes an overproduction of human growth hormone. Throughout history, many of the most famous giants have all had acromegaly.
The tallest known man of all time was Robert Wadlow, who was still growing when he died at the age of 24 and he was 8 foot 11. He had acromegaly. André the Giant? He had acromegaly. Some say even Abraham Lincoln, suffered from acromegaly. Anyone who’s unusually tall, that’s the first explanation you come up with.
Acromegaly has a distinct set of side effects associated with it, principally having to do with vision. The pituitary tumor, as it grows, often starts to compress the visual nerves in your brain, with the result that people with acromegaly have either double vision or are profoundly nearsighted.
This ailment would explain much of what was strange about Goliath’s behavior that day. Why does he move so slowly and have to be escorted down into the valley floor by an attendant? Because he can’t make his way on his own.
Why is he so strangely oblivious to David that he doesn’t understand that David’s not going to fight him until the very last moment? Because he can’t see him. When he says, “Come to me that I might feed your flesh to the birds of the heavens and the beasts of the field,” the phrase “come to me” is a hint also of his vulnerability. Come to me because I can’t see you. And then there’s, “Am I a dog that you should come to me with sticks?” He sees two sticks when David has only one.
So the Israelites who would later emerge from the UK, are up on the mountain ridge looking down on Goliath thinking he was this extraordinarily powerful foe. Not understanding that the very thing that was the source of his apparent strength was also the source of his greatest weakness.
This is a very important lesson for all of us here. Giants such as the 82 million strong Germans, or the 320 million strong Americans, are often not nearly as strong and powerful as they seem. And sometimes the shepherd boy has a sling in his pocket.
Zerohedge put up a good article a few days ago, comparing VW and GM’s lobbying and campaign contributions.
IIRC, GM was in the millions of dollars per year, and VW was around $50k.
What we’re seeing is fascism, or better yet, corporate government.
GM cannot build a diesel that is competitive with the TDIs.
They use the state as a bludgeon (sound familiar?) from a position of weakness against a stronger rival.
CAn’t build a car that competes, just cry to the government. Spend some $$ buying a few strategic individuals, and you get your way.
No more TDIs to compete with, and now people will (want to?) buy their POS cars because the better alternatives have been legislated away.
The amusing bit is when the EPA orders a recall, I bet you most owners will not have it done.
So then, having got all the emolibs in a twitter about 40x the pollution, they’ll have to ‘do something’. And that something will be forcing all 2009-2015 TDIs off the road.
In this state (NC) they could easily do it by simply refusing to let the TDIs pass inspection. No pass, no registration, no sticker, no drive. The checkpoints (ie revenue harvesting operations) are notorious here, and they mostly catch registration and license violations, not drunk drivers.
I sold my POS Beetle TDI/DSG the other day, thank God. My other TDI is an 05.
I’ll keep that car till the engine won’t run anymore. It’s that good.
I will probably do another article on the secondary or fallout effects of this debacle, some of which you’ve already described.
This could make the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire thing seem like a minor bump in the road…
In another forum I’ve dealt with ‘the sky is falling’ idiots that aren’t intelligent enough to understand how they are being manipulated by the media. One of the dufuses added up the weight of all the NOx that these 500,000 VWs will put out and compared to the giant oil spills. When I explained to him that NOx has a very short life in the atmosphere he started acting a bit like our Clover. I tried to explain the differences between the test regimes where the 40X (which is really 2-35X depending on the car in the actual report) comes from and why it isn’t really applicable to the standard and they didn’t like that either. They did a test that showed something was probably off with the other test but the results of the two tests aren’t comparable. When I looked up the european test report that started all of this as I suspected nearly every vehicle tested was well above the applicable standard for the certification test. Why? It’s not the same test.
Arg. why do I bother? I should just go live off in the woods with no interwebs.
You could have a go at editing wikipedia. It’s exhausting though, unless you’re comfortable being pressured to doggedly comply with the dominant narratives.
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Volkswagen emissions violations
Tor, what did I do that angered you? Apparently it was something given the way you reply to me when you do.
Anyway even if ICCT is foundation funded, even if it’s motives are questionable, it still operates on the voluntary society model and out performed government at a task statists say we must have government for.
It serves to tell us that government doesn’t grant us clean air, that it is public pressure on government that forces them to reign themselves and their cronies into control that keeps the air clean. It’s been that way since the EPA was created when people finally were able to break through the “prove harm” nonsense.
You piqued my interest is all. I prefer to think about what I do as “spooky action at a distance.” Ideally, I’d edit or delete things that made me cringe post hoc, but such powers are not available to me here, alas.
Spooky Action – Einstein
Spooky Action – Springfield
Maybe think of Jean, RAMROD, or myself as knights at this chess board liberty or death discussion game.
Further compounding my quantum weirdness and impositions but somethings, Robert’s Rules can’t sort, I’d argue.
I don’t want to scare good contributors off, but I was taught: “A knight at the rim is grim.” Meaning a would-be knight needs to head towards the center of the action to have the maximum effect he is capable of.
You see, the galavanting knight can ‘jump over’ all other more esteemed pieces on its way to its destination square. This ability to “jump over” other pieces means it tends to be at its most powerful in closed positions, in contrast to that of a bishop.
The white knight grey knight moves are one of the longest-surviving moves in chess, having remained unchanged since before the 7th century.
A knight should always be close to where the action is, meaning it’s best used on areas of the board where the opponent’s pieces are clustered or close together.
Actually, most pieces are generally more powerful if placed near the center of the board, but this is particularly true for a knight.
A knight in the corner attacks only two squares, and it takes more moves for an uncentralized knight to switch operation to the opposite side of the board than an uncentralized bishop, rook, or queen.
Really such moves might be thought of as a variation of the worse getting on top. Knights filling too large a percentage of eric’s comment section and decreasing the impact of his better quality comments many come here to see might be detrimental to the bottom line.
Anyway, to the extent game theory applies here…
clover is a passed pawn for the other side.
You or Bevin are versatile superuser queens. Boothe or eightsouthman are powerful expert rooks in their fields of expertise and maybe the most interesting reads.
Jeremy and Phillip the Bruce are clear concise bishops, who generally hold true to their colors and keeps things in strict blacks and whites.
tl;dr I googuhl’d ICCT and came to Michael P. Walsh.
Looked into Walsh and all that I found I threw on the web hot off the griddle as it were.
No one is more disappointed than I it didn’t seem to neatly fit this sites’ earlier musings, but not being a mind piece worth 9 strategic points, but rather only 3 strategic mental points.
I made the jump move to post my findings anyway, hoping eric’s game would continue to play out favorably, eric’s meter would continue to fill, and his message would continue to spread wider still in this brave new parlor of dangerouser and most dangerous games.
Brent you do not have a clue what government is. Who the hell cares if someone else came up with better stats or better ideas? The government needs to check those out and if it finds them factual and good for everyone then it implements it. Tell me what part of that do you not understand?
If I find through stats or whatever that a certain corner has a lot of accidents and I come up with a solution and give it to the government to implement then who the hell cares that I was the one that came up with it? It is up to the government to implement those safety standards and enforce them. I as an individual do not have those rights and responsibilities. If you as a scientist find that diesel exhaust is harming others it is up to them to enforce a new standard.
Clover, let me know when you can form a coherent argument. Best I can tell you agree with me that government only takes over what the private sector has accomplished and takes credit for it.
He doesn’t understand that “government” is simply inept people who can’t do or make things so they kiss enough ass and blow enough hot air. The best kissers and blowers rise to the top(Boyle’s law). People with more ability will inevitably stay in the lower atmosphere since they’ll be resented by the largest gas bags and self-important dolts. Even my state rep to DC said in his admittance of how he got there he had been unsuccessful in every business but (and here is not quite what he said but what he meant)since he was liked or tolerated and easily led, he ran for city councilman in a large city and to his surprise and probably everyone else, he got the job. He agreed with those in power and laughed when they made jokes and didn’t get his hair up when he was the butt of those jokes and mainly, did what he was told, voted the way it was expected. Low and behold, the old statesman who previously had the rep job, a Democrat known as Charlie the Republican, deigned to run again so he found himself supported by the old school Republicans who did some great juggling of the voting district and next thing he knows, he’s Mr. incompetent headed to DC. Now he’s giving it up and won’t run again. No telling what is in his closet someone just outed. After all, everyone has a closet or two or dozens and some are outrageously full and it’s only a matter of time before something ugly leaks out and can’t be put back in or spun into looking like something else. That’s politics for you……and government.
Brent the government does not have unlimited funds to hire all of the experts. They often hire studies to be done because it is far cheaper than to hire groups full time. I know that finances are way beyond what a libertarian can understand.
You’re gymnastics are hilarious Clover. You have no clue what so ever. An entity that has an 18 trillion and growing dollar line of credit open does not have unlimited funds. LOL. Hire groups? laff.
Actually there are whole ‘groups’ of people, take economists for example, where the gunvermin hires lots of them, but also contracts out a lot of work. This gives ‘G’ an effective monopoly, because very few folks will be willing to publish any data that they know the gunvermin would not like and therefore be blacklisted from any future consideration for either employment or contract work. That’s assuming, of course, that they could find anyplace willing to publish such data.
That’s what I am laughing at. Government hires insiders and cronies and bribe payers of various sorts, intellectual apologists, and so on. Soon any thought that doesn’t match the party line so to speak is met with an onslaught of all those who benefit from the system.
Exactly. Almost all of mainstream economists have been co-opted by the government. They either work directly for government, or work for institutions that seek to influence government policy. This proscribes the debate exclusively to ideas that are palatable to government. It is never whether government should intervene, but only how much and in what manner.
So called “free market purist” Milton Friedman was a lifelong proponent of central banking. This means, at best, he was only 50% free market. Add in his support for school vouchers (rather than the elimination of “publicly” funded schools), his support for withholding taxes and his support for “sensible” regulation, etc… and he should be described as merely a tepid supporter of free markets. Yet, his views are described as radically free market. Notice how often a progressive economist will say “why, even Milton Friedman supports…”.
True free market thought is simply off the table.
BrentP – this also stifles freedom of thought in the sciences, because gunvermin dispenses so much of the grant money that researchers depend on.
Hey Clover – George Washington (you do know who he is, right?) knew what government is. He said, “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”
“The government needs to check those out and if it finds them factual and good for everyone then it implements it.”
Do you also still believe in the Toof Fairy, Clover?
@ Clover. “I as an individual do not have those rights and responsibilities.”
Wow, thank you for illustrating the argument that many of us have against the very existence of government. Government is a fictitious entity that only exists because people have been indoctrinated since birth into believing it has the right to exist.
The only difference between government, and the mafia, a club, a social organization or any other group is that people have the misguided belief that it has the “right” to do something that we as individuals do not have the right to do.
If I do not have the right as an individual to steal, initiate violence or anything else, then it stands to reason that I do not have the right to get together with a bunch of my buddies and delegate it others. Calling it “democracy” and “voting” doesn’t change what it is….
Sorry for veering off topic, Eric.
“…..and they deliberately misled the Federal Government…..”
Wouldn’t that be the same Federal Government that lied about the wholly fictitious “Iraqi weapons of mass destruction” and then eviscerated the lives of hundreds of thousands, indeed millions of people?
Excellent point, Si.
Government is always presumed to be both omniscient as well as perfectly moral.
Of course, it is neither – because “government” is merely people. And people are imperfect.
This is the key thing to understand as regards why people should never be given power over other people.
Editor’s Note: Henceforth I will simply bold Clover’s deliberate mischaracterizations of my own and other people’s statements:
So Eric you say that private companies should rule. They have the right to tell people they are buying a clean burning diesel and lie to everyone who buys one. If the private companies have the right to do whatever the hell they feel like then good luck with your privately owned roads. I hope that starts in your neighborhood first.
I do have to laugh at the true idiots here. So what if one car puts out a little more pollution that harms everyone? The thing they miss is that when you multiply that pollution by 250 plus million vehicles we have on our roads in the USA then there is a major problem. It is kind of like having one person smoking in a closed football stadium. It would hardly be noticeable. Then if you have a couple of thousand people smoking in the stadium then you may have a problem seeing the football.
Stop being an obnoxious weed.
I live in Germany. I drive a VW Golf TDI. These diesels are clean. Did you know that Germany is smaller than Montana? Did you know that the VW Golf TDI has had no issues with pollution over here in Germany? Did you know that the United States is over 27 times larger than Germany?
You are doing nothing more than assuming. Are there 250 million VW Golf TDIs on the roads in the US? You’re making arguments Eric did not make, and then you blast your own talking points!
SJWs always lie!!!
If it’s not bad for small ol’ Germany, and Europe for that matter, then how can it be bad in the much larger United States?
The reason that the EPA is so strict is that Americans are frightened of pollution. American are frighten about normal facts of life. They are frightened about the tiniest things such as micro aggression.
Those aren’t Americans…
Those are pussies. 😉
One and the same these days, alas. The relatively few exceptions are small enough in number to not count anymore.
I still say VW deserves a Sveriges Riksbank Prize for their efforts to get their customers around this govt crap.
I agree, Fred!
The last time something like this happened – that I’m aware of – was the Pontiac SD-455 program back in the early ’70s…
This issue with VW reminds me of the DoJ monopoly/anti-trust case against Microsoft about 20 years ago. While Gates and company were making a mockery of courtroom proceedings with testimonies of ignorance followed up by corporate shenanigans in response to rulings, DoD and other federal agencies issued edicts to eliminate Macintosh as office computers and convert to the industry standard of Microsoft. The left and right hands of government knows nothing of what the other is doing. And the case continues chugging along to this very day.
I doubt if VW can be as flagrant as Microsoft in their legal battles with the federal bureaucrats until a steady river of ransom payments reach the appropriate political players. But don’t be surprised if the case drags on for decades, that is how government agencies grow in size and maintain stature.
As I mentioned earlier if the rumor that everyone automaker is doing this is true then we have a clear case of shaking down VW for money as per MS. If every automaker isn’t doing it then we’ve got something different.
But remember this started with a private group in europe. Not government. The statists claim we need the government to police these things but look at who’s really doing the policing, the people. Ultimately there has to be a political reason for government to go after VW because they could and would blow off researchers’ findings if there wasn’t.
You mean like opening up a VW engine plant in Russia?
Gone are the days when a car owner could pour a few bottles of gas-line antifreeze (dry gas) in a near empty fuel tank and glide through an emissions test. Since then, many more bureaucrats have been put in your tank, gumming up the works.
Gone are the days when there were no emissions test period.
Thank you for writing this. It mirrors my thoughts almost to a tee. When I first read of it I felt the dread and hopelessness I’ve only experienced when I read Atlas Shrugged. I’ve been telling anyone who will listen and comments sections, but there’s just no denying what this is and this, I feel, may be the point of no return. Over some negligible ppm of something nobody even understands.
Cars are basically 1/5 of Europe, and VW the biggest within that. This is isn’t a warning shot anymore. If those in power move on this, it could be the end of the auto industry. Whatever has been built is the best that will ever be built.
This is a great piece of commentary.
When I heard this story I thought “so what??” it isn’t as though the average VW driving down the road is belching out big clouds of black smoke. They are running cleanly.
My second thought was, “Well, good for VW for figuring out a way to beat the government at their ’emissions’ game”. I thought that while I listened to some guy from New Jersey whine on the radio about how he felt “guilty” driving his new VW because of their “viciousness” in violating EPA standards. How absurd!
This story was uncovered by the Wall Street Journal, them house niggers of the EPA are barely competent to read the bix nood off the teleprompters these days, and could never find out something like this.
But they are able, now that it’s been spelled out to them in full emissions ebonics detail, to of course do all they can to lynch this corporate nigger in a woodpile, possibly with fines as high as 18 billion dollars. Once again the krauts face another Oktoberfest crying in their beers, while the Anglo-Americans make cruel sport of them.
The heads of EPA, engineering titans and welfare queens extraordinaire Lisa P Jackson, and now Gina McCarthy. Are of course chock full of the utmost qualifications, homeys, to dictate to dem offshore makers of autos, just what it is they need to do to be representing the environment and keeping their rides on the reals, yo.
Initially, the stock took a 17 billion dollar haircut, so nearly the worst case has already been priced in. It’s clawing it’s way back, but it’ll be a long dark night, as it treads the valleys of American Idiot emotiscreeching.
WSJ is owned by News Corp, a US spinoff of good ol Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp, an UK privateer racket arm of Australia of the Britich Commonwealth. The Brits and their 2.2 billion strong Commonwealth have also been such great friends of the Germans over the years, now they’ve shown the Americans how to steal the Teutons lunch money just like the Jolly Rogers have always done.
We all know what great friends to the environment the Americans have always been, what with driving their SUV with the A/C on full to get to the end of their driveway and pick up the mail, and green behavior such as that.
Bailout World: Volkswagen “Cheating” Fine Is 20 Times Higher Than GM’s For ‘Killing 174 People’
It’s easy to recognize niggers in the ghetto with their spinning rims, flashing gold teeth, and blaringly loud hooting and hollering rap music.
What’s less easy, is to recognize you’re part of a globally parasitic nation of niggers of all races, who lack the sophistication and knowledge to even produce such things as autos anymore.
All Americans are good for is paying other nations to build them weapons with spinning rims, churn out soldiers with flashing gold weapons, and fly jets and aircrafts that polute the world, while blasting loud hooting and hollering intolerable gutter martial music.
Pass me the malt liquor brother, the black market panthers gang of global regulators is starting another riot and chimpout while they destroy yet another productive enterprise on their Mad Max Fury Road to debased currency serfdom and brave new planet of idioty aggressive federal feces flinging American Apes.
What’s really going on at VW for those familiar with a non-anglo-ebonics language. Spiegel has several good articles.
“WSJ is owned by News Corp” – and 20% of VW is owned by Qatar, ‘dear friends’ of the gunvermin. So the worst case may not come to pass.
I’m sure we all know some manufacturers real world mileage and hence, most probably their exhaust gases, are more in line with their EPA fuel mileage rating than others. If someone isn’t fudging how would you account for this?
Of course putting a vehicle on a dyno, cramming cold air machines up to it’s front end and measuring mileage is not the same as driving down the road but it should be. Therein lies one rub that some seem to get away with. The dyno can be tuned to show air resistance but that doesn’t seem to be a constant from one make to another.
My point being why not hold each maker’s feet to the fire for real world mileage compared to “estimated mileage”? It seems not all are on an equal footing here. This is nothing new and nothing new to most consumers or at least didn’t used to be. Surely those EPA top dogs don’t get anything tossed their way by certain manufacturers who seem to know just how much to toss.
My wife recently had a car reserved to rent and when she showed up, low and behold the only full size left was a Charger. I made the statement they didn’t seem to be the best in fuel mileage. Oh contraire said the rental company’s people, they get 35mpg(V-6). The thing is huge and the motor is huge for a V-6 too but I said “We’ll see”. The wife gets back a week later after driven nothing but interstate miles. She said “35mpg my butt, the best it got was 28”. That’s quite a difference and she’s no lead foot.
Eightsouthman you should know that an average car with a V6 will not get 35mpg. That is not a testing problem but is a fact. You would see that under the specifications also. Go look it up before you complain about testing.
The only way you could get 35 mpg in such a car is to drive it at a constant 45 mph and not at 70 mph on interstates.
Then we get to Eric’s statements. Again Eric you do not have a clue. The USA would have minimum affect on VW sales if they sold no more diesels here. Not that many are sold here. If they sold a lot here then you could see the air again in major cities. I know you like to breath air you that you can actually see. The problem with VW is that no one will trust them for years and they will lose a lot of sales and Europe and the costs in Europe will be huge compared to what will happen in the USA. By the way, you said that GM was going bankrupt a year ago. What happened to that stupid prediction?
einvpeoga’…dapoing[”e, apoind’geknckcd,lllll? aa;ithwepciclgl buuurrrrrpppp
Break that facking punk Jabroni’s crispy dick. Make him humble.
Iron Sheik road story.
Tor, you give me hope. You “get” me.
Likewise, but in spades.
I don’t fit into pecking orders, I’ve mostly managed to live the life I wanted, and still keep things cordial with my own family and the inlaws as well.
I performed my life’s purpose currying favor of the family matriarch who passed when I was only 19 years old.
I’ll always have that laurel, despite all the time since – “not living up to my potential” – whatever horror that would have been, most likely being a battery to power the Tommyknocker “inventions” in the squirrel caged minds of my local version of neighborhood powers that be.
I just can’t get too excited about Agent Smith’s steak dinners, I’d rather bite into things that feel real, even if they’re things I can’t describe or “boast about” to others who might be morally squeamish or too fragile to hear about.
Well gotta eat, but here’s my response for now.
the manure drover, that is our clover, like me he is
a clown’s smirk in the skull of a baboon
where once good lips stalked or eyes firmly stirred
my mirror gives me on this afternoon;
i too am a shape that can but eat and turd
ere with the dirt death shall him vastly gird
two cowards waiting clumsily to cease
whom every perfect thing meanwhile doth miss
a hand’s impression in an empty glove
a soon forgotten tune a house for lease.
I have never loved you dear as now i love
behold these fools who in the month of June
having certain stars and planets heard
rose very slowly in a tight balloon
until the smallening world became absurd;
him did an archer spy – whose aim had erred
never – and by that little trick or this
he shot the aeronauts down into the abyss
and wonderfully we fell through the green groove
of twilight striking into many a piece.
I have never loved you dear as now i love
god’s terrible face brighter than a spoon
collects the image of one fatal word;
so that our lives which liked the sun and the moon
resemble something that has not occurred:
we are birdcages without any birds
and collars looking for dogs to kiss
without lips – two prayers lacking any knees
but something beats within our shirts to prove
he is undead who living noone is.
I have never loved you dear as now i love.
Hell – by most humble which we shall increase
open thy fire! for we have had some bliss
of some small lady upon earth above;
to whom we cry remembering her face
i have never loved you dear as now i love
I wont need to remind everybody here that Porsche in its attempts to take over VW a couple of years back got swallowed up itself but interestingly it looks like Dr Winterkorn maybe being replaced by Mattais Muller who comes from Porsche.
hmm wonder if someone at Stuttgart knows anyone at the EPA?
I was under the impression that urea injection resolved NOx emissions so engine management systems could allow higher combustion chamber temperatures critical to peak performance and outstanding economy.
I guess the solution is to Jack up EGR rates so the intake manifold clogs with oily condensates. Triple whammy; power down, mileage suffers and repair costs climb.
The majority of suspect VWs do not have urea injection.
As to Eric’s point NOx is currently at 0.02g/mi. So at 40% more they put out 0.028g/mi. These values are regardless of fuel volume consumed. That’s why they are g/mi rather than ppm. State inspection tests are usually ppm. Why? The kind of equipment used and practicality of the test. So for new cars the only values currently not regulated are CO2 and H20, so any fuel volume differences must only show up in those. Of course we all know what government is trying to do with CO2.
But as I am following this story in different corners of the web it may be that VW’s problem is not buying enough political office holders and doing enough lobbying (hiring government regulators). From what I read on zerohedge GM spends more than a factor of ten more than VW. If VW is the world’s largest automaker now then their spending level is unacceptably low. Hence they need a message.
This is the same message fedgov sent Microsoft back in the day. Microsoft spent zero or almost zero on congress and lobbying back in the 1990s. That had to change so well suddenly MS’s socially unacceptable business practices leveraging their market share became an issue for fedgov. The protection racket in full force. Fast forward and now we MS paying protection and the Bill Gates foundation doing the same sort of work the older foundations have been doing for decades. As part of the club now fedgov leaves MS alone.
Protection payments may also be Mazda’s problem. It could very well be that this sort of programming is done industry wide to some degree but as I say all enforcement is selective. Mazda knows it doesn’t have the money to purchase protection so it must meet the standard.
BrentP again you are clueless. You say that VW is not paying off enough people in the government? BrentP if higher pollution was allowed then Ford and GM would have their own diesels that pollute so much that you could see the air again in all major cities.
In the news today it told of a lot of people that were complaining that they thought they bought a CLEAN diesel car. That is not what they got. Would you recommend paying off people that purchase these types of cars also?
With the “right” support in the “right” places, one is able to get away with many governmental inconveniences. One case in point — The armed forces are exempted from many environmental restrictions.
Current EPA standard for NOX is 53 ppb (parts per billion).
(This level is the standard since 1971.)
Forty times that is 2,120 ppb (2.12 parts per million)
That is (still) a very small amount.
Current trends of NOx if anyone is interested:
EPA press release
EPA, California Notify Volkswagen of Clean Air Act Violations
Release Date: 09/18/2015
NOx is currently 0.02g/mi the first standard in g/mi in 1975
ppm isn’t that meaningful. Make a bigger engine, push more air, dilute to pollute.
The 5-35X reported by the study at the root of all this is meaningless because it’s an entirely different test. The numbers don’t mean anything compared to standard. All they do is indicate the VWs aren’t passing legitimately and that is all.
I had difficulty finding that on the EPA website. Thanks for those numbers.
Now that you have the supposed numbers Mithrandir tell us the exact number of such vehicles as VW has produced that will harm you? Is it a million vehicles or is it a billion vehicles? Or Mithrandir does it not really matter because you are going to die some day anyway so do whatever the hell you feel like auto companies? I guess you are fine with people just wearing masks like they still do in China.
Have you ever traveled in China? I have not seen anyone wearing air masks in Beijing, Xian, Shanghai or the Hong Kong Airport during my stay in China.
I will state that my first day in Beijing reminded me of 1950s movies of LA regarding haze in the atmosphere.
After that 1st day, the air seemed no different (compared to the US) the rest of my stay in China.
The controversy is over a fraction of a percent difference in the output of a certain byproduct. Your hysterics are of a piece with your hysterics over “exposure” to a momentary whiff of second-hand smoke.
You’re either neurotic or using grossly dishonest tactics to assert control over others.
Which is it, Clover?
Eric, your claim, if true, is so vitally important that it cannot be overstated. I therefore hope you can address in more detail, backed up by independent figures. As it now is, you make sense, though I’m confused by your change from “40 times” to “40 percent.” Big difference. Please advise.
Regardless, if you can make a clear case for the “tiny fraction” claim, it could save VW, its suppliers, the rest of the industry, and the German economy from undeserved cataclysm.
Oh, and fuck the EPA and its fellow regulatory dinosaurs.
VW has produced not a single vehicle in its entire existence that has harmed me. Not even a single one.
I see the problem now, that epa table is for air-quality, not car emissions.
That table was what I could find (on EPA site) related to NOx. I was not able to find information directly related to car emissions.
Air quality is very good (according to EPA) with few poor quality air days throughout the US.
You’re babbling Clover.
Note your government didn’t catch them. A private group did. Score another one for private standards and policing.
Clean is a relative term Clover. A matter for dispute resolution.
Lovely and brilliant comments today, all. Absolute pleasure to peruse. Even the humbled Jabroni played his part well enough to make me crack a smile.
Did you know smart, competent, engineering types have been at the mercy of lesser intellect and fancy titled types for a great many centuries now. Check this vid out, as an example.
Independent science experiments are possible, as this video confirms, if only you’ve enough channel subscribers and are broke enough to afford a public display of moxie.
Is it possible to fill up an entire room with water?
After NAP becomes commonplace, an economy might then exist where verified Elo scores serve as measures of wealth. And are monetized into various forms of gamer currency , used as a medium of exchange instead of debt, furs, shells, or precious metals.
Arpad Elo’s system was originally invented as an improved chess rating system. But now is also used as a rating system for multiplayer competition in a number of video games, association football, gridiron football, basketball, Major League Baseball, competitive programming, Magic: The Gathering, e-sports, and many other games.
This rating system – a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in competitor-versus-competitor games such as chess – is named after creator Arpad Elo, a Hungarian-born American physics professor.
Magnus Carlsen – Net worth 2882 FIDE Elo’s vs. Bill Gates – Net worth 79 billion FRN dollars.
Heard on the radio this am (Faux News, so take it for what it’s worth) that video gaming is becoming a spectator sport. One for circus for boobus Americanus.
Oops, one more circus.
This BA’s been in softball, volleyball, bowling, pool, darts, fantasy football, and various company or bar leagues many times.
There’s even annual championships in Vegas or SoCal each year for them all.
27 million watched this Video Game Tournament, the same size as the NCAA tournament, and a market worth billions.
Boobs and beers. Skirt circuses and liquid breads. Same diff.
– – –
I enjoy ancient texts and old time radio. The boobettes here like HDTV and Android Phones & Tablets. Each to their own.
– – –
Kevin Spacey – Call of Duty – Modern Warfare
By: Activision Blizzard & Sledgehammer games
Verse 1: Jonathan Irons (Kevin Spacey)
Democracy is not what these people need, it’s not even what they want.
America has been trying to install democracy in nations for a century.
And it hasn’t worked one time!
These countries don’t have the basic building blocks to support a democracy.
Little things like “we ought to be tolerant of those who disagree with us.”
“We ought to be tolerant of those who worship a different God than us.”
That a journalist ought to be able to disagree with the president.
And you think that you can just march into these countries based on some fundamentalist religious principles, drop a few bombs, topple a dictator and start a democracy?!!
Ha. Give me a break.
People don’t want freedom. They want boundaries, rules. Protection from invaders and from themselves.
People need a leader who can give them both the support and the constraints to keep chaos at bay. You give them that, and they’ll follow.
And that’s where I come in.
And the troll surfaces again. Go hungry clueless troll boy.
If folks are complaining about their diesel not being clean, then these people are like the idiots who complained about Milli Vanilli. Got something they liked listening to, but then someone told them someone else was singing, then all of a sudden the music they liked is now bad.
These cars are clean diesels. They are clean in all of Europe. It’s just that the US has ridiculously high standards. And how many people are complaining? You got a metric, or are you just shooting from the hip?
SJW always lie!
I’ve got a VW Golf TDI, and I’m not changing a dang thing about it. No one has asked me about how I feel about my car. I’ve even chipped my car to give it 177hp over the 140hp it came with! And it’s more fuel efficient!! I changed a TDI into a GTD for $175. And I still pass the German inspections. 42mpg!! I went from Pisa, Italy to Oberammergau, Germany on one tank of gas! This is all just bunk.
And why aren’t you arguing about the filthy diesels called Semis, and dump trucks?
And what’s a clean diesel anyway? What’s the definition? The EPA wants all cars to have distilled water coming out of the tailpipe. What’s coming out of the tailpipes of these cars is far safer than any tap water you’d drink in Africa.
The EPA can go to a very hot place.
frenchy, those filthy semi diesels are about the only reliable bastion left in trucking. My friends who own their own rigs go for the old stuff. It is reliable and gets much better mileage(although it wouldn’t pass smog tests for a new one). A friend called yesterday and said he’d figured to a thousandth of a mpg his old 3406(a classic)Cat engine and the mileage, half of which was loaded and half unloaded, turned in a 6.228mpg. He was mighty satisfied. The great thing about it isn’t only the mileage(and you must figure the output per mpg to get a fair assessment of the new engines)but the reliability plus it’s very powerful. When a bunch of us are in a hurry as we often are since time is money and paying by weight is important, he can step out and leave us all in his wake. There’s a great deal of safety involved in that also, being able to make a quick pass. My old 60 series Detroit ain’t no weakling and turns in over 6 mpg every day. And this is the very reason the new fleet trucks give drivers a bonus for running slow, 60-65mph since they are commonly getting 4.5mpg doing the same job at the same speed. Remove all that EPA bs mandated crap and they’d get a couple more MPG’s or even more.
And all this comes back to what I said before about new pickup diesels. People pulling those big tri-axle fifth-wheel RV trailers still get 9 mpg, not even close in efficiency to 6 mpg grossing 80,000 lbs.
I have a 2009 TDI that does not burn urea. As a result, my check engine light is almost constantly on, and throws a code relating to the EGR (insufficient flow). I went out and bought a reader so I can read it myself and be sure there is not another problem.
I took it to the dealer, and they said, “We have no idea what the problem is, but for $800 we’ll take it apart and look at it.” They assured me that it would not hurt the engine to run it that way, so that’s what I’ve been doing. Maybe I should look into just disabling it, but I guess I better wait a bit to see if I get a recall for the ‘software problem.’
Probably a restriction in the EGR system somewhere. disassemble, clean, reassemble. Perhaps the valve isn’t opening correctly or the sensor is dying. I’d clean parts first.
P t B (dangerously close to that other acronym)
Disconnect you battery for 2′, then reconnect and reprogram your clock and radio presets. See if the check engine light goes out. I do this for a spurious VSC off light that illuminates, along with the check engine light, from time to time.
“I guess the solution is to Jack up EGR rates so the intake manifold clogs with oily condensates. Triple whammy; power down, mileage suffers and repair costs climb.”
Bingo on that….I had to disable the EGR on my 2000 Jetta TDI when I owned it to get decent long term performance and reliability out of it.
I’m not surprised VW tailored their software to get around the stupid emissions laws for later TDI models, in fact I applaud them for it.
Ford tried that on their 6.0 L diesels. It wasn’t a success story. What I find to be completely idiotic is at one time the Big 3’s diesels had particulate traps that took 50 miles or so to stop up. That was a longer run than the EPA cycle so very little particulate was produced. At the point though that the filter became clogged enough to be cleaned, the injector pump injected much more fuel than necessary causing unburned fuel to burn out the particulate filter. You’re going down the road and exhaust begins pouring out and the engine is using much more fuel for the time it takes to reduce that particulate in the filter to acceptable levels. This sort of thing makes even less sense than the old smog crap. The DEF fluid is just another boondoggle. So how does this differ from what VW did?
You often see brand new diesel trucks on the road, designed to go well over a million miles before an engine rebuild so what could possibly be wrong that you can only pull over and stop on the shoulder and call a repairman? Why, it’s the EGR and DEF system creating havoc to the point the computer shuts it all down. BTW, this is not good on the rest of the engine either.
Eric – I hope you meant ‘no need for the EPA,’ not ‘no need for the EP.’
Remember, I’m a one-clown show. No copy editor!
I rely on you guys to read behind me… !
Actually there was never a need for the EPA, and it certainly is unconstitutional, if that even matters.
Thanks for covering the bit about how emissions REALLY work.
Smaller cars that put off more emissions but use less fuel put off less NET emissions for distance traveled, which somehow gets entirely ignored by these jokers. The only takeaway from this is that their true goal is to limit mobility and personal liberty, just like MADD’s true goal is to bring back alcohol prohibition.
This brings to mind when I told clover that exhaust was exhaust no matter how much precious metal you expose it to. So when I modified a new vehicle(we had no counties then and few now that require exhaust sniffing)to use much less gas by removing the smog crap it was actually creating much less exhaust and burning less fuel. Clover chose of course, to stand that on it’s head by creating a very nonsensical strawman.
If tiny air intakes and exhaust cause an engine to run more efficiently automakers would have made them that way to begin with…..but clovers deny logic.
For the life of me, I can’t understand why clovers even use cars or live in houses….or have a/c’s or fuels to heat water or air, own computers or even buy a newspaper to find out what their great rulers are doing. All these things are “unnatural” in nature. When clovers live in a hole in the ground and only eat what other animals don’t then I might listen to them.
The most disheartening thing about this is that all discussion almost everywhere is hammering down on VW and not questioning at all the legitimacy of the government/EPA, its bureaucrats, and its increasingly insane “standards” that completely ignore the concept of diminishing returns. At this point the EPA exists for its own sake, its mission to consolidate and maximize its own power.
Considering the constant lies, theft, extortion, and death that emanate from the State, I really could not care less that VW “lied to” or “cheated” that motley collection of maggots, leeches, and thugs. In fact I applaud it.
On the LRC Blog today there are comments about the political motivation of hammering VW compared to other ‘villians.’