A Cold Breeze for EVs

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There’s only so much lipstick you can put on a pig. Eventually, even Stevie Wonder can tell what it is – if only by feel.

Well, some EV owners were feeling mighty cold last week. Nervous, too. About the effect of cold weather on their electric cars. Apparently, no one told them that using electrically powered accessories – like the heater – draws power from the battery which propels the electric car.

Resulting in it being propelled less far.

Nor that batteries suffer a kind of erectile dysfunction in cold weather. They become flaccid, sooner.

Less range, again.

But – for the very first time – the general press actually reported this.

CNBC headlined their story with the news that “Electric car owners have discovered cold weather saps batteries faster.” This being news right up there with the Flash bell-ringer that running the air conditioner in July will increase your power bill.

The CNBC story quotes a study done by the American Automobile Association on the effect of cold weather on electric car performance. Several models were tested, including the Tesla 3, Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt, VW eGolf and BMW i3.

AAA found that, on average, when the outside air temperature falls to 20 degrees, the advertised best-case range of these EVs fell by 41 percent.

Some by half.

Extra! Extra! Read all about it (here).

This is even worse than it sounds, actually – because EVs start out with best-case ranges that are far less than those of almost any non-electric car.

Especially the lower-cost models.

For example, the Nissan Leaf – at $30,000, it’s the lowest priced EV on the market – touts a best-case range of 150 miles.

This is already less than half the range of any non-electric car. For an economy car, it’s pitiful. The Nissan Versa – similar to the Leaf in size but about half the price  – averages 34 MPG and has a 10.8 gallon tank. Thus, it can travel about 340 miles before it runs dry – no matter how cold it is outside.

The Leaf’s range less 41 percent is about a fourth the range of almost any non-electric car.

Which is a problem compounded by the recharge problem.

An EV like the Leaf that’s had its range almost cut in half by cold weather can only recover a portion of that range at a “fast” charger – so about 80 percent of the 40-something percent. This because of the way EV batteries charge; or rather, the precautions during recharging at a “fast” charger, which are necessary to avoid damaging the battery, or shortening its useful life.

There is a rough analogy, if you’re familiar with propane gas tanks – such as used by people in the country to power house heaters and such. The tanks can only be refilled to 80 percent, too. So, a tank that could physically hold 100 gallons actually only holds 80.

The difference is the propane truck can refill the tank to 80 percent full in just a few minutes, regardless of the weather.

Recharging the electric car at a “fast” charger requires cooling your heels for at least 30-45 minutes.

In the cold, remember.

Most “fast” chargers are not located inside.

And because the charge/range of other EVs will also have been gimped by the cold, there are likely to be lines at these “fast” chargers (see my piece here about the issue of EV charging station throughput).

There are nowhere near enough “fast” chargers in existence to accommodate the number of EVs already out there under “best case” conditions. The ratio of cars needing to charge up  vs. the number of available places to charge up will increase in cold weather.

So, just think:

Your electric car – which has had its best-case range of 150 miles reduced by cold weather to 70 or 80 miles (better turn down the heat) will need to find a place to recharge 40-50 percent sooner – and when you do find it, you’ll wait at least 30-45 minutes (assuming you find a spot not already in use by another EV) to recover about 80 percent of the 70-80 miles’ cold-gimped range.

Which means you can go about 50 miles before you’ll need to plug in . . . again.

This isn’t just a hassle. It’s potentially lethal.

What if you find yourself stuck in gridlocked traffic because of weather – or an accident? It’s true EVs use less power when not moving, but the heater is an energy hog. It’s also essential to life when it’s minus 10 degrees outside. What do you do? Turn off the heat to preserve battery charge – at the expense of preserving your life?

You can use an IC car as a life preserver if you find yourself immobilized by a blizzard; even with a half-full tank, you can stay warm for a day or more. And you can also creep/crawl in gridlocked traffic for hours without worrying about the car leaving you – literally – out in the cold.

AAA found that “just turning on” an EV when the air temperature is 20 degrees reduced the range of the EVs they studied by 12 percent on average. Use of the heater – and defroster – compounded that. These cars often have heated seats, but best not to use them much, if it’s cold out. Which rather defeats the purpose of having them in the first place.

These are things people ought to be told about.

AAA’s director of automotive engineering Greg Bannon agrees. He says these inconvenient truths may “surprise” people who buy an EV without having been told about them prior to their purchase.

They may also be “surprised” to discover that hot is also a battery-range gimper. Use of the air conditioner in the summer has the same effect as using the heater in winter.

Because AC (like the heater and defroster) uses electricity in an EV. Lots of it.

Of course, you could always just do without. For most people, sweating is just miserable – not lethal.

America is being gulled into electrified Yugos – which haven’t even got the upside of being cheap to buy. And while the Yugo itself may not have worked that well, at least the heater usually did.

Still, it’s nice that the inconvenient truth about EVs – some of them at least – are finally getting a little traction in the general press.

Maybe it’s not be too late to stop this crazy train.

. . .

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    • Wait. They have another site.

      More info about the car.

      They also have a Gas vs. Electric Range/Fuel cost page

      Problem is that the extra cost to buy and more pertinent long term, the insurance. Savings on fuel will be offset by the cost of insuring a second real car. Or living with a low range, one seat ‘car’.

      And of course ‘maintenance’. No filters or plugs, sure. Just a very expensive battery that will fail one day.

      Too bad. These do make some sense as a short range commuter or city car. Just not financial sense.

      • He always seems to say exactly what I’m thinking, when it comes to cars. I like the fact that he’s not some polished “personality”…..but just a mechanic who makes vids, and doesn’t try and cultivate some image. (Although he did do TV spots years ago).

        It’s refreshing to see someone who’s not carefully crafting every word they say, or always trying to make themselves look good. But…naturally, if someone just naturally doesn’t “click” with ya……

        • I do take issue with the video he did about repairing rusted-out brake lines:


          Hard to believe an experienced mechanic would recommend this! Compression fittings are not saaaaaafffffe for brake lines! Seriously, they are not designed to take the pressures in a brake system. It might be something you can get away with if lucky but I could just see one of these popping in a panic stop. The only safe way to splice brake lines is to double-flare them and use a union. It’s not all that tough to do. (These days I prefer Ni-Copp brake line since it is so easy to work with.)

          • I am guessing that’s the same video where I wrote the guy off.

            Some people say that even using flare fittings and unions is bad. To such people I say have fun dropping fuel tanks and getting other stuff out of the way to replace whole lines. There are numerous flare fittings in the system a few more isn’t going to be an issue. Once they are tight and not leaking they stay that way until someone takes them apart.

            I have some ni-copp and it was difficult to work with but the line I made with it was a very special case. A cross over for a brembo caliper. I simply didn’t want it to rust out again. It rusted under the piece of tubing that was to protect the brake line from rubbing on the caliper casting. Completely hidden. It has bubble flares and very short with tight bends. I probably would have made it correctly in steel the first time even without buying new tubing benders to try and get it right. For more typical applications it would probably be fine. I think I simply found its limits.

            • Years ago, I made a line to replace one that went from the master cyl. to the proportioning valve on a tow truck. My first time using a flaring tool (a borrowed one, at that)- I practiced on a piece of scrap tubing first- easy enough- but bending the coils into the line…LOL – It worked fine….but it sure looked ridiculous!

            • I don’t see why unions would be bad. As you say once you have a nice tight seal they’ll just work, they won’t blow apart like a compression fitting. I’ve even seen some cars that came with unions from the factory.

              I’ve found Ni-Copp very easy to work with but haven’t done anything really tricky with it. You can easily make bends without a tubing bender and it’s very easy to double flare. (Have not needed to make bubble flares.) Also it does’nt rust. A bit more expensive than plain steel lines but worth it.

              My flaring tool of choice is the type that has individual dies which makes it easy to flare tubing in situ on the vehicle.


              (There are some fancy hydraulic flaring tools around that look great but I can’t justify the expense for my own needs.)

              • I got tired of the traditional type flaring tools so I bought an on car flaring tool and bench flaring tool from eastwood. both worked well.

            • Brent,

              What causes them to rust?

              Old fluid – from the inside or do they rust from the outside?

              A few of my friends say that a bottle of old brake fluid (that had been opened) will ruin the lines and cause them to rot inside.

              • road salt from the outside, old brake fluid from the inside. More the former than the later.

                I’ve used opened brake fluid without issue, but I reseal brake fluid bottles with aluminum tape just like they came. So only moisture that got in there was when I was using it.

                • Thanks Brent.

                  One of my buddies squeezes the bottle until the fluid comes to the to and then uses pliers to close the cap.

                  Swears DOT3 is a “liquid desiccant.” If he can’t get all the air out he will just toss it.

              • On the rust I forgot something. 20 something years ago manufacturers came up with this plastic sleeve for brake lines to protect them from chaffing like the springs on old cars did. They give steel brake lines total rust protection. On my ’97 Mustang they cover most of the lines. On my mazda in true mazda fashion the stuff is only in the minimum amount. I don’t get it. It costs more to cut and place the stuff properly than it would to cover the whole line. The stuff is like shrink tubing and difficult to remove.

                • I helped a friend repair a plastic-coated brake line that rotted out on his car. The plastic had worn off on a corner bend where the line turned to go up the firewall, permitting road salt to do its thing.

          • Thanks for posting the video, Jason!

            I know someone else had mentioned before (Probably Brent!)- and yeah….I am flabbergasted, that ANY mechanic would recommend using plumbing supplies on BRAKE lines- much less a mechanic with “50 years experience”! (I’m not even crazy about compression fittings on plumbing!).

            I’m going to go back and look at the comments on that vid, and see if anyone has called Scotty out on that one. I know, if I had a Youtube account, I sure would!

            Funny thing is: Even though I 100% believed you before watching the vid, a few seconds in, when Scotty pulls out that l’il plumbing-style tube cutter, my jaw literally dropped!

            A semi-decent half-assed mechanic wouldn’t even do that! Talk about a non-sequitur!

            • When I first saw that video my immediate thought was “You have GOT to be fucking kidding me!” Figuring it had to be a bad joke I kept waiting for a punchline that never came. Unbelievable. You have to wonder how many people have unquestioningly followed that repair “advice”.

              • Looking at the comments, I was glad to see that almost everyone seemed to know better- like 99.8% were raking Scotty over the coals.

                I wonder if the guy has actually “fixed” customer’s cars that way?! Ya think he’d be so embarrassed that he’d take down the video- but he leaves it up all these years- I guess he really believes it’s O-K!!! Darn!

                I would have thought it was a joke, too. Like, the other night, I was watching a Wranglerstar vid (Not a big fan, but I’ll watch an occasional one, depending on subject)- and the guy says “If you’re wondering about my nice Indian jacket, I got it because I donated $10K to Elizabeth Warren’s campaign…” and as he didn’t immediately indicate that he was joking, I didn’t stick around any longer to see if it indeed was a joke; I just clicked away.

                Too many of these vloggers are getting out of hand. They’re starting to make vids every day, and acting like celebs- with a bunch of stuff about their personal lives in their vids; Between that, and the Youtube censoship; deleting of channels I liked; and new al-gore-rhythm NOT recommending vids that I want to see based on the cookies they put on my computer (Why put them, if instead of using them to learn what I want, they instead ignore them and try to dictate to me?), methinks youtube will be just another “TV network” before long 🙁 -and like all the other sites that have morphed into junk or have gone away, there will likely emerge no real replacement.

                Too bad some of these interweb CEOs wouldn’t go to Scotty for some brake work!

            • Compression fittings are used in cars in some spots or can be used for some repairs. Just not brake lines.

              For instance the choke heat riser tube on my ’73 has a compression fitting. I also used a compression fitting to repair the fuel return line on my mazda. But that’s low pressure compared to brake lines. For rusted fuel line repair the hacks use rubber fuel hose and hose clamps. They’ll even do it for the supply side.

              • Carbs are usually fed at about 4-5 PSI, so compression fittings or rubber hose would work OK there. On most of them rubber hose and clamps are used on the fuel filter and to connect the fuel tank outlet to the fuel line. (Recently had to replace the latter on mine.)

    • Damn you, Nunzio, I spent HOURS watching his videos! Seriously, he’s good; I learned a lot. Even though I spent hours watching Scotty, it was time well spent. Thanks for turning me on to him… 🙂

      • HAHAhaha! Any time, Mark!

        Yeah, I dunno what it is, but I just enjoy watching the guy- and he makes sense on most things. Some of things he says, even the non-automotive things- like that he enjoys just working alone and just being a one-person shop, etc. are exactly my thoughts- and it’s rare to hear such uttered by anyone else these days.

        If you want to laugh, search “Scotty Kilmer parody” on youtube. There are quite a few people out there making parody vids- some of them are pretty funny!

  1. I think the crazy train will only stop when it runs off the rails.

    What I envision as a more likely outcome is that we’ll all be corralled into electric vehicles. I believe they should be called “electronic,” since they run entirely on battery power, but the “electric” term has already been applied; that would be like closing the corral gate after the cows have escaped.

    Back to reality. We’ll be corralled into those, then when the mass failures are experienced, the government will just say, “Oops.”

    • I agree, Travis.

      At this point, brain-dead Westerners will accept literally Anything:

      Being groped and humiliated and deprived of the most basic rights, in order to board a plane;

      Being forced to buy ICE cars, 90% of whose parts are not necessary for the operation of a vehicle, but exist because the car manufacturer must serve Uncle rather than their customers;

      They gladly live in places where they have to pay extortion to the local gov’t just to be able to live in their own home, and must buy permits and follow the wishes of others in order to do any repair or modification;

      They work for corporations where they can not even express their own opinions on even personal matters, for fear of being fired for offending a champion of some group of self-appointed victims…..

      So what’s one more little inconvenience? Hey, “gotta save the panet, ya know” and “Take one for the team”- and they certainly have become accustomed to taking it!

  2. Hahaha. I’m from MN and we just had -30 weather before wind chill with windchill it was as low as -70. There a ton of Nissan leafs for sale and the sad part is battery replacement is $7000. You are going to pay more for a battery which only last about 6 years than what you’d pay in gas for your entire life of one vehicle. The math just makes too much sense.

    • Hi Mooeing!

      I was talking with my fried Graves (GTC – a regular here) about this yesterday. Anyone genuinely “concerned” about “the environment” would never buy a disposable $40,000 appliance that entailed massive energy inputs and also those “externalities” the green (reds) love to preen about. Instead, they’d buy a used car – which being already made requires no additional energy inputs and which – not being electric – can be counted on for reliable transportation far longer than the lifespan of an EV.

      Ditto the person “concerned” about “saving money” or “reducing the cost of driving.” It is mind-numbing to hear people who buy $40,000 cars (EV or IC) talking about such things.

      Want to “save money”? Pay cash for a solid used car under $10,000 and drive the wheels off the thing.

      • The system marginalizes real environmentalists as wackos. The people who reuse everything. Maybe use their entire yard to produce food. Whatever is it real environmentalists are marginalized. Those of us who hang on to our decades old machines are derided as ‘cheap’ and worse.

        There’s noting fundamentally wrong environmentally though with regard to buying a new car _if_ you hang on to it for the long haul. 15,20 years or more. These electric cars are seemingly designed not to make it past ten if that. But even in the dark days of the 1970s a car designed to last 5 maybe 10 years (of abuse of the typical car owner) could last decades if taken care of well while today’s electrics there’s nothing you can do but throw unrealistic gobs of money at them to keep them around past their designed end of life. That’s the real difference.

        Another thing, remember when high end cars were designed to last? Mercedes diesels of the early 1980s, Rolls Royces from the early 20th century, that sort of thing? When these vehicles were taken care of they could be passed down generation after generation. Now today an expensive car is just to show off how much money you can burn.

        A true environmentalist’s car could be very expensive new but it would last 50 years with normal care.

          • Growing up where people were farmers meant not throwing things away. It’s not rocket science to leave every part of a crop that isn’t used as the product so that you fertilized the next crop.

            I recall when nobody threw away a pop bottle since it was virtually throwing away money. Then the plastic thing hit and glass bottles were hard to find. Even though the glass we have leftover in our lives isn’t worth anything to us now, we still haul it to the recycler who gives nothing for it. We so same with plastic, paper and metal cans.

            I’m about to build a waste oil heater for our home and barn since we produce quite a bit of waste oil. 20 years ago a friends family had a barn on top of a hill that drained into the Clear Fork of the Brazos River. It was one hell of an eyesore where they simply poured everything including ag chemicals and old filters on the rocky ground where it drained toward the river. I finally pointed out to him one day he was going to get nailed by the state EPA or Railroad Commission for that pollution. He hired a dozer to cover it up…..but it’s still there. He complained nobody wanted that waste oil which wasn’t true. You could give it away to companies that would collect it. I shamed him into using a 1,000 gallon tank they didn’t use to dump it in and let whatever company have it that would collect it.

            Now I have a hard time finding a recycler for batteries. Ok, I can’t find one so I have a helluva collection of batteries dating from 25 years ago. Everyone else just chunks their in the dumpster.

            • Pop bottles used to have a deposit because they were reused by the bottling company. But the cost of paying a bottle washer was more than the cost of the deposit. Not to mention it was a hassle to take bottles back to the store, the store didn’t want to warehouse them and plastic bottles were lighter. If I were a betting man I’d say odds were pretty good that some government agency decided that bottle washing plants were destroying the environment or violated some workplace rules too, and the cost of upgrading them to the new standard would be too high.

              So the industry responded first with a redesigned glass bottle that was more compact but not designed for cleaning and reuse. So just throw it away. Or just crush it up and reform it, although you can only do that a few times before the quality gets too bad, and again the cost of recycling and remanufacturing is going to be higher than just washing and reusing, but it can happen at an industrial scale that hides the cost. Then came the plastic bottle, which isn’t really recyclable at all, and led to the open loop waste dumping system we have today.

              • Using ground glass in pavement is a good use these days. It not only makes the pavement more durable but increases the light reflection. I wish all paved roads had it.

                • Yeah, ya don’t hear much about that anymore, 8.

                  I remember, 30 years ago I went to see my uncle in CA., and the highway near him utilized crushed glass.

                  What a nice road it was! And not just in comparison to the crappy roads we had in NY- but I mean, this road was about the nicest paved surface I’d ever seen- and I traveled several hundred miles on it’s northern half (Hwy. 395 IIRC).

                  Holy jit! I think that’s the only nice thing I’ve ever said about Commiefornia!

                  • Nun, it’s still used in Texas and I loved the replaced sections of the interstate and other roads where it is new. It seems to shed dirt and oil better although that may be due to plasticizers which are highly toxic.
                    When you haul hot mix these days you are supposed to avoid food and water while hauling it and use the a/c. There are a lot of safety things the truckers are bound to do when hauling it.

                    Since I have what is known as occult asthma I opt out. It normally pays a bit more than hauling other products but I’ll let the ones who don’t know better to take my place.

  3. Here is a good “realistic” article by an EV fanboy:

    One thing I haven’t heard or read about yet is all of these people sitting in their cars at fast chargers in the cold. When they’re ready to get back on the road I would assume they would need to put the defrost on full blast to unfog the windows. Or can they run the heater while recharging.

    I’m waiting for a cheap <$10K commuter vehicle to come available. EP recently mentioned the chinese cars that will be hitting the market in the next few years and may cost around $9000. I would love to see one of these manufacturers try and knock off the Elio-like design. What do you think they could sell one of those for in the US? $5K?

    • Drew, that’s cause the vast majority of EVs are sold in CA and AZ, where no one’s gonna freeze (but may melt!)….I think the minority who buy them in WI or WI or NY, if they hadn’t figured out the cold thing already….probably have this winter! Assuming they have the guts to even use the damn things in the winter. Most just probably switch to the Benz or the BMW SUV, ’cause them’s the kinda people buying the stupid EVs. I mean, I doubt anyone who works in a factory is driving one as their only car- although I’m sure the media would convince them that that is something to aspire to. Ha! Wait till reality hits them then. I’ll bet that’ll be a wake-up call about ever trusting the lefty media again!

    • Sheetz, the ubiquitous gas station/convenience store/restaurants are installing Tesla superchargers. They’re also remodeling many of their stores to include a seating area. They’re assuming you’re going to plug in the charger, order a few death dogs or sugar bombs and do a little Facebooking on the free wifi. I know there’s no place I’d rather spend an hour or more than sitting in a Sheetz!

      • Hi RK,

        It slays me. Do people not have things to do anymore? Like… work? I wish I had an hour every day to just “hang out” at the gas station waiting for my EV to recharge. But then, I have to work.. so I can pay taxes, to “help” finance EVs.

        • According to Tesla, the superchargers are meant for intercity and interstate travel; they’re meant for people on a road trip. If you’re on a road trip, the odds are that you aren’t working. The idea is that you’ll charge the car during the night while you’re sleeping.

          While traveling, you’ll stop every so often, right? When I’m on a road trip, I’ll stop every 2-4 hours; I’ll get gas if needed, go to the bathroom, stretch my legs, get something to drink, and eat if it’s meal time. Tesla placed the superchargers so their owners can charge their cars while they take care of these other things that they’d do anyway. Regardless of the kind of car someone owns (whether ICE or EV), the vast majority of people will stop every so often. Tesla’s superchargers allow their owners to kill two birds with one stone.

          In closing, the superchargers were not meant to be used on a daily basis. The idea is that, if someone owns a Tesla, then they’ll charge it at home the majority of the time. If their job has EV charging facilities, they can charge their car there also. Superchargers are only meant for those on a road trip; they were meant to ENABLE Tesla owners to take road trips. Just my $0.02…

          • Hi Mark,

            Yes, I understand that.

            And I have no issue with either the chargers or the cars – as such. My issue is with the mandates and subsidies; that these are used to benefit very affluent people (by definition; who else ca afford a $50,000 EV?) only adds to my disgust.

            • Oh, I agree; do away with the subsidies. If someone can afford a Tesla with the subsidy, they can afford it WITHOUT. Even with the the subsidy, Teslas are priced beyond the means of most car buyers. Even the Model 3 costs $44k, which is about 3x what I paid for my gently used 2015 Ford Focus that gets 30+ mpg…

          • Marky, When we make the 700 mile trip to CO a couple times a year, we stop only for gas and to pee and change drivers. We’ve got it down to a science, stopping where there is a rest area and a gas station at the same place so we don’t have to wait in line to pee. I doubt that our stopped time is much over 15 minutes total over a ~11 hour trip: 2 gas stops and a couple pee/driver change stops at the truck pull-offs. We could probably just make one gas stop but I don’t like getting under 1/2 tank (still more than total EV range!). When trying to make time I don’t worry about gas price so much as convenience so we’re stopping at little places that we can get in and out of quickly.

            It HAS to be that way, because otherwise we are leaving way, way before daylight (and driving only ~50mph in the dark because of deer on the highway) so as to get through Denver Hell before the evening rush hours (which seem to last till about midnight).

            • I understand what you’re saying, but your situation is different. You have someone else to take the wheel, so you can rest or eat. I don’t; I drive alone 99.99% of the time, which changes things. Since I can’t rest or eat while on the road and on the move, that means I have to pull off if I need to do either. If I have to pee and eat lunch, that’ll take 15-20 minutes easy. A stop at a Tesla supercharger takes 30 minutes, and you’re good to go. For me, that wouldn’t be much of an inconvenience, since the charging time is only a few minutes longer than my typical stop time. I could easily live with a Tesla full time.

              For me, the hard part would be AFFORDING a Tesla! The Model 3 that we can get STARTS @ $44k; that’s about 3X what I recently paid for a very gently used 2015 Ford Focus, which gets 30+ mpg. While I would like a Tesla, it simply doesn’t make financial sense to get one; that doesn’t include the home charger or the cost to install the thing, either. In any case, my only point is that with the superchargers, a road trip in a Tesla is doable.

              • If I have to drive long distance alone, I belt the cooler into the passenger seat and eat while I drive.

                Anyway, good luck finding a “supercharger” someplace like Kaycee Wyoming.

            • Sounds to me you need a Ranch Hand cowcatcher. They’re Quite Common on every type of vehicle in Texas now. One of the best things about them is they cover the bumper eliminating air bag deployment.

          • When I take a trip, I get up early…drive- just stopping for gas and to let the animals relieve themselves if applicable- and keep going till I get where I’m going or till I get where I’m gonna sleep.

            The idea of stopping at least twice a day (under ideal conditions- but more likely, 3 times) for an hour- and that’s assuming no line- is totally unacceptable.

            I’d go crazy!

            Best case scenario, I’d lose over 200 miles each day.

            • Hi Nunz,

              An EV with a best case range of 300 miles – and that’s pushing it – can maybe make the trip from the DC suburbs to my place n SW Virginia without having to stop for that minimum 30-45 minute recharge. Thus, a trip which would otherwise take four hours or less now takes five or more.

              And this assumes best case. If it is cold or hot and the range abbreviated by use of accessories such that two stops are necessary, you’ve now increased the travel time by 30-40 percent. The four hours or less trip in an IC car becomes a six-hour trip in the EV. That is serious time wastage. And what if the “supercharger” is occupied by another EV – and you have to wait for him to recharge before you can? Now the four hour trip is an all-day trip. Maybe book a room.

              Even if the EV makes it here on one charge, it is “empty” when it gets here – and so useless for transportation. It must be parked – and you must wait. No “supercharger” at your house? Then it’ll be 6-12 hours before the car can be used again.

              It makes my teeth ache.

              • Ah! The “efficiency” of EVs!

                Eric, what you say was amply illustrated by a Youtube video I happened across a while back. This Tesla fan-girl had to drive from Delaware to my old stomping grounds of Lawn Guyland and back. A 3 hour trip, each way, when traffic is light. Even if caught in rush-hour traffic, should be easily doable in one day- even in daylight (it was summer).

                Long story short: It took 2 days! Between finding an available, working charger….waiting…timing that with traffic; the reduced range of sitting in that traffic; running the AC, etc. etc.

                I’m sure the few bucks she may’ve “saved” on gas was more than made up for by the cost of the night’s lodging (Can’t find even a seedy dump on LI for less than $150) and lost time; additional meals out, etc.

                Yesiree bob! Efficiency!

                • It’s funny to me, too, ’cause a long-time friend of mine makes virtually that same drive at least once a week (From Jersey, right at the foot of the bridge that crosses over to DE) in his F350- and almost always towing a c.30′ trailer with 10-20K lbs of stuff on it…and almost always does it in well under 3 hours!

          • Which is fine if there’s only a couple of EV’s at a time; what happens when you have to wait for the cars ahead of you to finish charging? Going to be a heckuva lot longer wait. We’ve made a few road trips to Florida to visit family and at most rest stop fueling areas have had to wait a minute or two for a free pump-no big deal, back on the road in 10 minutes tops. That trip took 2 (12-14 hour) days; can’t imagine how long it would take in an EV.

  4. Excellent article about a real problem for EVs. It occurs to me that this entire craze reflects a current mindset which is at its root, based upon Internet communication. Science fiction used to be the province of propeller head nerds who read comics or paperbacks from the drug store racks. Smart guys (usually) who dreamed of the future. Now with the Internet, and computer graphics and animation, every moron with a cell phone (all of them) somehow believes that the “future is here.” Hence all of the knotty scientific problems are gone. “Gee, with this phone here, I could go to the moon like Neil Armstrong…”
    So the cell phone addicted public is easily persuaded that EVs are magic bullets to solve every (invented) problem. It is a sly way of affecting people’s behavior and thought. One reason why moronic Congresswoman AOC (a/k/a “Sandy” from Westchester) has a Green New Deal that entirely relies on magical thinking. Within a decade more or less, AOC claims not-here-yet “science” to replace fossil fuels and replace that with-not-yet-invented “clean energy.” The applause for her unicorn plan still rings in the mainstream media. The reality is freezing to death in an EV today in winter. But who doesn’t want an endless supply of lemonade and lollipops? Isn’t “hard science” just a Trump excuse?

  5. Dealing with Old Man Winter is something that my #2 son THOUGHT he’d had down pat when he was getting his degree in Chemical Engineering at BYU. Then he took his first job in Decatur, Illinois, working for PPG, and about a year later bought his first house about Thanksgiving of 2014. I flew out to help him move, and we jackhammered up the old driveway, which was in sorry shape (this home was decent but decidedly a ‘fixer upper’) on Turkey Day, laid out the forms on “Black Friday”, and had the Reddy-Mix come on Saturday…all in freezing weather! Sometime later, when PPG sold the plant to a Chinese company, and he took a job in Clinton, Iowa, with Archer Daniels Midland (ADM), he sold the Decatur home and bought a nicer place. In both, he made damned sure that there was place to park his Jetta and his truck INSIDE the garage. Even then, the truck, being originally sold in Illinois, has a block heater, and the Jetta, coming from “Cali(porn)ia”, got an aftermarket dipstick heater. It DOES make a DIFFERENCE, as in the latest cold snap it was getting down to minus 25° F, and he had frost on the windshield of the Jetta (since it’s an ’03, his ‘beater’) even in the garage!

    Folks not only are losing skills in dealing with winter weather, they’re just getting ‘wimpy’! Even this nonsense of watching f-u-u-u-t-b-a-a-l, now mostly in INDOOR stadia, is nothing ‘manly’! Whatever happened to going to a game in a blizzard, fortified with hot coffee (spiked with bourbon), an overcoat, knit cap, boots, jeans, and NO SHIRT, displaying the team colors all over your beer gut! It’s like a commercial for Alka-Seltzer many years ago, where three generations of likely blue-collar Buffalo Bills fans are out there in that godawful weather, cheering their Bills on with no shirts on, drunk off their assess and acting like idiots..the youngest, a fellow about 25 years old, remarks, “Ma never goes to the games…I wonder WHY?”

    • There are still plenty of ski bums who camp out in the back country looking for new powder. The older ones have nondescript camper vans that are decked out pretty nice inside, but are fixed up to look like a work truck for urban camping when necessary. The younger ones have tents. They often wake up and have to dig their way out of the tent. They call these days “good,” because that means there’s new powder to play in. Then they spend hours skinning up the side of a mountain, always worried about avalanche, in search of the ultimate line down the ultimate mountain.

    • Doug,

      Speaking of playing football inside, the Minnesota Vikings have not been the same team since they started playing inside. Back in the Bud Grant days when they played outside, they have a FORMIDABLE home field advantage because few teams could take the MN cold…

  6. Hey, I had used low mileage Yugo GVX with sunroof, ac and stereo! I paid like 1000 I think for it when I was broke and in college. It was always a decent car, a bucket of bolts to ride in, but always started and ran, got good gas mileage too.

    Eventually, I needed something safer when I relocated tooling down I95 every day. I will say you felt like you were riding a motorcycle, basically nothing between you and the car next to you.

    The only problem I ever had was the wire clutch broke once, an easy and very inexpensive fix. Everything on even a cheap car today is $500 just to start. Hard to match that today. I don’t know what I would be driving in the same financial situation. Definitely not low mileage, and then if it needed repair Id be in real trouble.

    • Modern cars are designed entirely with planned obsolescence in mind. The only virtue is that likely you’ll go, with reasonable maintenance, faithfully changing the oil and filters as needed, about 125K to 150K before you run into serious problems…which often spell the car’s ‘doom’ as the repair cost is often as much as the vehicle is worth! My 2014 Ford Focus, with 68K miles, is just about in that category, as it’s not worth a lot compared to what I paid for it, but every month that it starts and gets me to work is one less car payment. I have invested in a repair manual, and can handle a few things, but it’s amazing what, with it now FIVE model years old, one can only get parts or have work done at the “Stealership”.

    • I picked up a Yugo for scrap in the mid 90’s. It ran and drove; there was nothing wrong with it- just no internet then, and thus they were impossible to sell- I even had to charge the person to take it away, as they were so light, at the time, I wouldn’t have gotten $30 for it at the scrap yard.

      I had this guy who used to come around and buy small running 4 cylinder cars from me, for the “rollovers” [At the local race trck, they’d erect a ramp and run the cars up them…and whoever’s car flipped the most times won]- So I put the Yugo aside to see if he’d want it. He did!

      That was the last car he bought from me. Months went by, and I hadn’t seen the guy. Then one day, he comes around looking for a part for something, and I say “Wha’ happin? Ain’t ya doing the rollovers no more?”- and he tells me that when he rolled the Yugo, the seatbelt broke, and as a result he messed up his neck and back, so can’t do the rollovers anymore!

      In all my years futzing with cars, that was the only incident I had ever heard of in which a seatbelt broke! Yugo!!!

      • There was an internet then, and for a considerable time previous. Most people just didn’t know about it and access was tough to get unless you were in college, in the military, or working for a major tech firm. 🙂

        • Exactly, Jason- I just consider it Pre-internet, because for the most part, regular people didn’t use it.

          In the late 90’s it bloomed! It was used by the common person, and most of the content was created by the common person. I knew that wouldn’t last long- but it was glorious while it lasted.

          Now it’s used by everyone, but like TV, is becoming just another source of media propagation.

          RIP The real, free [free as in free speech, not free beer] internet 1998-2008.

          Bet if I had that cherry Yugo today, it’d go for $2500 on Ebay, no problemo. (I sold it for $125 + got $35 for hauling it away!)

    • Good stuff Liberal Disdain.
      My brothers and I ran 70’s vintage Civics in HS and college. I think we had 5 of them that we would fix up and trade up. I became the local honda mechanic with 5+ lined up on the road at any given time in suburbia and no one would complain cause I was fixing all their crap. The local honda dealer was a shyster. Our favorite of all of them was the first ’76? 1200 or 1300 bare bones model. We carried spares in the back in case we got stranded skiing in vermont, etc……
      Those old CVCC engines ate water pumps and blown head gaskets between cylinder 3&4.
      I had the record at a shop I worked at of 5 minutes to change a honda water pump, haha….
      I even towed our dirtbikes with them, but found out that the trans’s didn’t like that with a few blown trans’s. No problem, 2-3 hour job once I got good at it.

  7. What if rap, country, and rock music was really garbage now and the only reason people like it is that the elites keep pushing it to keep the 99% brainwashed and distracted by bread and circuses?

    Does anyone find the fact that every song is about sex instead of morals, war, debt, and tyranny to be a bit odd?

    • You know what I find odd, “Libertarian”? Your attempts to seed this site with links to some shystery “sportschannel.” I delete every single one. If you keep it up, I’ll delete you, too.

      • I have never seeded your site with anything. You are seriously confused. That said, i will not comment again, ever. Nor follow your site in Lew. Not going to be accused for something i never did. You can email directly if you choose, you got it with my post.

    • Libertarian,

      What do you mean “What if?”- that IS the way it is. Not just that, but how people have become accustomed to listening to NOISE! Harsh, glaring, dissonant, jarring sounds, which would have been viewed by any other civilization as an assault on one’s senses…..lemmings now call “music”.

      Don’t blame the elites for this one though. People gladly listen to these filthy sound-bytes because the “music” reinforces their rebellion against morality, sanity and responsibility. Idiots are “proud” and consider it a rite of passage when they send their adolescent sprog off to some “concert” in a band of long-haired demon-possessed drug-addicts make a bunch of noise while deriding every value of the child’s parents, as they evoke images of the bowels of Hell, before going backstage to gorge on an orgy of fresh meat of what gender (or maybe both) no one is quite sure.

      This is a sign of the utter moral bankruptcy of a culture. Anyone can do as many of us already did long ago, and just turn the switch off.

      We live in a society that has utterly divorced morality from every aspect of life. I mean, I rather like some of Jimi Hendrix’s music…but knowing what he was, I find it hard to listen to.

        • A bunch of low-level Jews did promote and propagate [c]rap…..but just look at the way people eat it up- even middle-aged white people. Hell, I just click on a Youtube video, and hear some [c]rap beat, and click right away from it, lest it befoul my ears. But the average person is so bereft of sense, they not only tolerate it, but consume it.

          Most other genres of music are almost as bad. It’s gotten to the point where our culture has become so debased, that this junk doesn’t even need propagation- a lot of times, it’s just a raw expression of unbridled human nature, unrestrained by any constraints of morality; the musical equivalent of Antifa or “the troops” or statist mentality of the AGWs and their supporters…. -a celebration of violence; compulsion; assault; shouting-down; shouting of orders; mantras of their code of [non]values……

            • Bah! What was I thinking! Lyor Cohen; Jerry Heller; Jimmy Iovine; et al, Jewish?! Nah!

              Oy vey!

              We all know that anyone who dares to utter one critical word against the Jews- be it for genocide, cultural warfare or any other atrocity, is just an “anti-semite” and a Hitler!

  8. Think it’s bad now? Wait for the Great Leap Forward the bartending moron from New York has in store for us. I first thought she’s certifiable and saner heads will prevail, now I’m not so sure.

    • Hi Fred,

      Yes, agreed. The “environmental” movement has done a superb job suffusing the populace with socialist ideas without using that word. But the end result will be the same. The gulf between those who want that – and those who do not – has become unbridgeable. There is no more talking about it; one side or the other is going to prevail – by force.

    • She’s a pretty face. At least prettier than Dianne Feinstein (not a high bar). She’s young, fresh meat for the grinder. Old men seem to have a tough time using their BS meters around pretty, young, aggressive women. CNBC built their network on “money honeys” who get titans of industry to talk to them. Hell, Becky Quick built her career interviewing Warren Buffett.

      Remember Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos? Who was on her board of directors?
      Let’s take a look at Theranos’ 12-person board (which is an 11-man team if you don’t include CEO and Chairwoman Elizabeth Holmes—interesting given her stated commitment to women in STEM). We have former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry, former Secretary of State George Shultz, former Senators Sam Nunn and Bill Frist (who, it should be noted, is a surgeon), former Navy Admiral Gary Roughead, former Marine Corps General James Mattis, and former CEOs Dick Kovacevich of Wells Fargo and Riley Bechtel of Bechtel. There is also one former epidemiologist—William Foege, and, in addition to Holmes, one current executive, Sunny Balwani, who is Theranos’ president and CEO.


      Old men who either want to date her, or play paternal figure to her. Probably a good mix of both, once the Viagra kicks in. They know full well that her cockamamie ideas are DOA but what’s the harm in letting her take the reigns for a few months? Everyone knows full well anything passed by the house won’t make it through the Senate or get signed off by Trump, so it’s all just posturing for 2020 anyway.

      • What the ditz needs before anyone would take her seriously is a serious good schtumping and to push out a kid or two…anyone out there willing to “Take one for the TEAM?”. Seriously, what the hell WOULD a 29 y.o. bachelorette, whose supposed “education” was only good enough, IF her life story is believed, to tend bar, know about a GODDAMNED thing? Even “Hey-Sus” (our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ) had to wait until He was THIRTY before He had ‘creds’ as a Rabbi!

      • The lying (((media))) promoted Holmes like crazy (rich, female billionaire!), which really pinged my radar. Naturally I thought she was a fraud…and she was.

    • Fred, the only saner heads these days seem to be right here on this site- and we’re the lepers who are quietly swept under the rug. Out in the majority, it’s just socialists vs. national socialists- or D’s vs. R’s; war-mongering welfare-loving leftists vs. war-mongering welfare-loving neocons; Stalin vs. Hitler. No matter which side wins, just like in Germany, we lose.

  9. I abandoned my pickup in the ditch after shoveling two hours in minus 10 degree weather with a 40mph wind refreshing me this past week. That’s during the day; the nights dropped to 30 below (ambient, not wind chill) with as much wind and it took a couple of days to get the truck out. It can be hard to stay on these rural gravel roads when the visibility is almost nil and the buried road becomes one with the surrounding snow-packed fields.

    I can’t imagine driving an electric vehicle in this area. People have this notion that freezing to death consists of shivering for a while and then falling asleep. The truth is that there’s a middle stage of cold that is quite painful before numbness sets in, somewhat like a burn. My fantasy is, like Bokonon, to flip off TPTB right at the end.

    • When the “Goimans”, in 1941, got to within sight of the Kremlin (at least standing on a high observation post, looking through binoculars) in Russia, they had to resort to keeping tank and truck engines RUNNING, which gulped a lot of fuel, else they’d freeze, even with antifreeze! A vehicle, if the engine stopped, would be ice-cold in fifteen minutes, and it was often necessary to light a fire under it to start it! The Luftwaffe scoured men to build improvised hangars out of wood and scavenged stoves from farm houses; else their planes’ engines wouldn’t even turn over! Wood fires were kept burning at latrines so that when soldiers answered the “call of nature”, their anuses or members wouldn’t freeze! One can, in researching the “Great Patriotic War”, recount the exploits of the Soviet Generals Zhukov, Konev, Chekov, and others, but the “officers” mainly responsible for stopping the once-mighty German Army in 1941 in Russia were “General Mud” and “General Winter”!

  10. Well, of course, if people freeze to death in electric cars, they’ll be proletarian “deplorables,” not important people with degrees from Yale who have dedicated themselves to saving the planet. Hillary will never freeze to death in one, nor will Kamala Harris, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Al Gore, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, or your local chief of police. Cops certainly won’t be driving them — their batteries will never run out chasing you down to write you a speeding ticket. Nor will the SWAT team roll up in an electric MRAP to kick in your door at 3 a.m.

    So… what’s the big deal?

  11. I solve the cold battery problem on my camera by putting the entire camera body in an insulated jacked with room to insert those chemical hand warmer packets you put inside gloves. I predict hand warmers the size of Costco dog food bags will be the hottest EV accessory of 2019.

  12. This is such an obvious major UNSOLVABLE problem that I’m ashamed I never thought of it. Even though I know batteries don’t work in bitter cold, Forget 50% capacity loss, try 90%. Try using a DSLR with Li batteries in subzero temps. A battery that would last an hour at 70 deg. will struggle to reach 15 minutes at -10. If moving air/wind is increasing the heat transfer rate, it will not last 10 minutes, maybe not 5.

    The Tesla battery is so big that it will retain a lot of heat compared to a camera battery, so on a subzero day you just set the thermostat in the garage to 100 (if Uncle allows it to go that high) the night before. The moment the garage door opens you floor it because more current draw = more waste heat. Presto, now the Tesla has “free” heat for the passengers.

    People should have noticed that Elon’s orbiting car could only keep the camera running for a few hours before “the batteries ran out”.

  13. As a lithium battery temperature range is 41-113 F a good chunk of juice will be used to heat the battery. They can be charged from 32 to 41 but at a much smaller rate increasing the time to charge and reducing the total charge. Plus the efficiency of the batteries goes down along with the temps so it’s all a lose, lose proposition.

    The possibility the planet is going into a cooling stage due to the Sun (which I believe is more likely than the GW BS) those batteries are going to give it up sooner and require replacement. I have no idea what that might cost but I am pretty sure it won’t be chump change.

    Nice write Eric. They may not listen but imagine the fun of saying “I told ya so!”

  14. I’m stuck on the Stevie Wonder / Pig thing.
    Anyway, ya know I recently read a story about putting lipstick on an orangoutang, but it did not work so well as a metaphor because they went right ahead and &^%* it.

  15. I just watched an interview done with Mike Sweers. Chief of all trucks–body on frame vehicles–for Toyota. Of course he gives the ‘we need to be environmentally responsible’ smegma that all of the big car companies give, but it was strikingly obvious that he knows exactly how electric cars are simply not feasible at all for most car buyers, especially in the north American market. He gives an inside look at why Toyota–in my opinion– won’t commit electric suicide like most companies are doing. He talked about the infrastructure problem for EV’s that currently exists with only around 2 percent of the market being EV’s. Every indication is that they are looking at more hybrid use. Not at fully electric.

    It’s interesting that the company with the best selling hybrid doesn’t tout plug in electric cars. This will pay dividends down the road. When the people who bought EV’s are stranded/waiting in line to charge, they will awaken their muddled minds when their neighbors cruise by in a hybrid.

    I’m in no way in favor of hybrids. I like the regular ICE engines without expensive batteries, but 20 years from now, if I needed a new pickup or medium/full size SUV and my choices were full electric F-150/Expedition or hybrid Tundra/Sequoia, it’s no contest.

    This is all hypothetical though. Uncle may very well have outlawed ICE engines by that time. That may be the only way they could bail out the big two by then, since they are all in on electric. Especially GM.

    • I had to laugh at his claim that he made his trip in the Bolt putting out “zero emissions”. I made a comment to that effect but for some strange reason, the moderators deleted it. I must be a “science denier” or something.

      • Jalopnik appears to be primarily written by and for heavily-brainwashed teens and millenials, fresh out of the government propaganda mills, who are card-carrying members of the Climate Cult and have swallowed the EV propaganda hook, line, and sinker. The only reason I go to that site periodically is that amongst the drivel they occasionally have an interesting article about old and/or obscure vehicles.

        • I can’t stomach the tone of any of those Gawker web properties. I had to stop reading Jalopnik a long time ago to keep my blood pressure in check.

          • Pretty much applies to all non-Libertarian-specific media these days- no matter how small/independent. Statism/collectivism pervades modern thought in every sphere of life- and there is virtually NOTHING or no one who does not assume that mentality pertaining to everty single sphere of endeavor.

            The more we avoid it all, the happier we are. (It seems everyone on every car forum uiniversally supports “the troops”…. Thank goodness for this site, where it isn’t so!)

            • Hi Nunz!

              I have never understood this “support the troops” business. If they were conscripts – young kids dragooned to some rice paddy or desert, against their will – I’d have sympathy for them. But why should one support people who freely choose to become tax-feeding mercenaries for the state?

              They are not fighting for our freedoms; they are fighting to take away the freedom of people in foreign countries who never did a thing to me, as far as I can tell. I am repelled by the idea that money is taken from me to support the murder and oppression of those people, with whom I have no beef.

              And “the troops” are in fact taking away my freedom – by taking my money, to support their endeavors. I don’t support that, either.

              The United States – i.e., the federal government – has fought one aggressive war after the next since 1812, the last war which seems to me to have been about defending this country.

              Every war since was about stomping some other country – or would-be country, such as the fledgling Confederacy.

              So, no – I do not “support the troops.”

              • My thoughts exactly, Eric!

                “Fighting for our freedom” my ass! They couldn’t be doing more to destroy our freedom and that of everyone else, by mindlessly serving these filthy bankers and politicians; valuing even their own freedom so little that they would essentially sign-up for voluntary servitude in which they relinquish control over their very own bodies and minds, even!

                Even if it were still involuntary, I wouldn’t give them any respect, because if someone puts a gun in your hand and says “Now you’re my servant; go and kill…” a decent person would still resist- or not cooperate; or fight his captors instead of those whom he is told to fight- no matter the cost, IF they truly believed in liberty- even if just their own.

                These were ideas I had to confront when growing up, when the Vietnam War was raging. Even in elementary school, while “the draft” was still on, I remember thinking “Suppose I am drafted when I get older?”. I didn’t have much of answer at that age, but I did resolve that I would never serve the bastards, no matter what. (Luckily, at the time, unlike today, there were many people and hippies speaking out against “the war” and protesting, and calling attention to these issues. Hmmmm- a sad commentary on our populace, that one no longer sees such!)

                Now living here in the sticks, it is even more abundantly clear how the average serf feels about serving his god- the state. You see obituaries on the front pages of local news websites- some 80 year-old geezer dies, and there’s a recent picture of him, dressed-up in his war costume- still glorying and celebrating the fun he had advancing Uncle, and killing hapless Japs or Gooks or whomever, who not only never did him nor his any harm, but whom he never would have even laid eyes on in this life, but for the Reich’s endeavors.

                Utterly disgusting, isn’t it?

                F&%$ the troops!

              • But wasn’t the war of 1812 started by aggression by fedgov?

                True it was the last war where the US was actually defended but I recall it being fedgov’s fault.

                • The only legit wars ever fought by this country, were the Revolutionary War, and The War Of Northern Aggression (Legit only if you happened to be fighting for the South).

              • I think the “support the troops” meme came into being during the Chimp’s Iraq adventure, since a lot of people did see that it was pure BS and weren’t going “support the war”. So twist it around to “support the troops” and therefore how dare you not support your neighbor’s kid who is risking his life to protect your freedom. Hah! As if we had any freedom to protect – the ragheads certainly weren’t going to take it, Uncle beat them to it. Goebels is smiling in hell.

              • Too many stories of Vietnam vets being spit on. I’m sure it happened, but probably not anywhere near as often as parroted by the media.

                During WW1 and WW2 the German U-boats were threatening to attack ships flying the US flag. They did not actually attack any until we officially entered the war. The Lusitania “incident” was telegraphed and the Germans even bought ads in US newspapers telling Americans to not travel on British ships. Wilson, the O.G. globalist, figured it was better to let a few souls perish in exchange for the New World Order version 1.0.

                I know most of us here are familiar with the true history, but it bears repeating. And needs to be recorded again and again. Wars are started by rich old men but fought by poor young boys. Back in the day we were told to pray for the president. Today we’re told to support the troops. It’s a twist or extension of what the army does, keeping the war personal to the guys fighting it.

                • Amen, RK…

                  Here’s another angle: With the caveat that the draft is loathsome, it did inadvertently act as a check on the War Bonerism of old dicks like Cheney and Kissinger, et al. There was no practical way to limit the draft to the disposable children of the Deplorables; the sons of people like Cheney and Kissinger, et al could just as easily find themselves trying to stuff their intestines back into their bellies after stepping on a mine in some god-forsaken foreign country. It brought the cost of war home.

                  Now we have the “volunteer” military – and it is no coincidence that we have been literally at war, continuously, for almost 20 years.

                  Despite the saccharine song singing at fuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttball games and the odious leg-humping of “the troops,” the obvious fact is no one really gives a damn. They volunteered, after all – and it’s no skin off my nose if the son of the unemployed truck driver down the road got his legs blown off and now spends his days playing video games waiting for his disability check to clear. My kid is off to Yale and a great job at Raytheon….

                  • It is likely the lack of a draft that has made today’s antiwar movement is so tepid. Back when the gangsters could and would just pull young men off the street and force them to die in a godforsaken jungle for no good reason there was extreme pushback. You can read the history and listen to the tales spun by olde pharts but you really had to be there.

                    • And that’s why we no longer have a draft. When enough people burned their draft cards and it became clear no one was willing to play their game the draft was done. Like someone said “I didn’t know we could do that!” and next thing you know it’s done. Then so many people were able to get deferments that we ended up with McNamara’s morons shooting their commanding officers (again “I didn’t know we could do that!”) and the war is done.
                      So now they had to sweeten the deal, and hire marketing firms, train a sales force of recruiters and trick people into joining up.

                    • I remember those ads well. “Today’s Army wants to join you!” Riiiiiight…

                      I tried to post a link to an article about those ads with samples but it is being rejected here as spam. Go to duckduckgo dot come and enter the search terms “mother jones early 70s army ads” and it should come up at the top.

                • The fedgov has been lying the nation into war after war with the same techniques. When pointing out the lies of the past that are proven lies the masses go ‘that was a long time ago’ or still claim it a “conspiracy theory”.

                  It seems pointless. The masses want to be conned.

  16. ***”Apparently, no one told them that using electrically powered accessories – like the heater – draws power from the battery which propels the electric car.”****

    I’ve noticed over the last 15-20 years that this has become a rapidly growing problem- i.e. people are absolutely clueless about how things work, even on the simplest level; especially the young. And whereas such ignorance of basic physics and mechanics may’ve once been common mainly among women, today the average males is just as likely to be clueless.

    And I mean, I’m not talking about a knowledge of complex things on an in-depth level- but just the basics which make one wonder “Why? How? Where?” and just come to some basic realities. But [Steve Martin voice] NOOoooooo! People just expect things to do what they do, magically. Press a button and something happens, and no thought is ever given as to why it happens, or where it comes from- just like entitlements or “government-funded” programs…..they never wonder where the money comes from. There’s a disconnect between the taxes they pay and the money that the government somehow has. The disconnect is even greater when it comes to their neighbors….

    Flip a switch and get nice and warm- never think of why it works.
    Sign a piece of paper and receive free money…never wonder where it came from.
    It’s all stuff that other people make happen- because most people are so disconnected from the physical realities of life today, that they just take for granted that certain things exist, or that certain things happen- but have no clue as to the physical realities which make anything happen.

    Most millenials are like a 1940’s housewife; they just know their own little sphere of existence and how to operate in it, while they need not concern themselves with anything else, because hubby takes care of all that.

    You turn the key and the car doesn’t start, you call the “garage” and they send a tow truck, and that’s that!

    • The soldier and the burger flipper with phd’s don’t need to know how the equipment works, Nunzio. They only need to know how to work the respective equipment after given instruction on its operation. Just the way their “free”, “education” for all intended it to be.

      Thinking outside the box is only for the elite. Sounds like you need to be sent to a re-education camp where you can learn to stop thinking so improperly as evidenced above.

      • Yeah, AnCap- ’cause it’s apparent that initial indoctrination camp didn’t quite “take” with me- and thanks to my avoidance of the “healthcare” system, I likely won’t be croaking too soon….

        • No doubt these things will save the planet since there’s no downside to mining lithium or any of the metals used in batteries. I have a 5 gallon bucket of dead batteries and have no place to recycle them. I’m tempted to bury them in concrete but know they’d eventually leach through.

          I don’t worry near as much about petroleum anything as I do about batteries. At least I can turn my old lead acid units into ammo.

  17. The thing is with the propane tank for home/farm/business use is that the 20% is probably so it doesn’t go over the pressure rating in hot summer weather. (an educated guess on my part) If it’s really cold and you’ll use that 20% before it gets warm again one could probably gamble and go to 100%. Or the real solution, just buy a tank that’s 20% bigger. After all it’s just a stationary tank.

    There’s generally no cramming in of more battery cells into a car so that solution is out. The rest are fundamentals of chemical batteries until some miracle breakthrough occurs. If and when a viable electric car system is created the political world will come down on them like a ton of bricks. We’ll start hearing about all the environmental issues from the materials needed for them all the way through their use and end of useful life.

    In all areas there is this political push using the excuse of the environment to create things that don’t work well and don’t last. I can only conclude there is a political reason behind it. It’s more than just inflation and lowest price. It’s bigger than restricting mobility. I can see some individual pieces but there has to be an even bigger picture that encompasses machines in general. I can’t see these machines saving enough energy and other resources to justify their short lives. Especially since they don’t work well. What is saved when dish washers and clothes washers have to be run twice to get the job done when the old one only needed to be run once?

    • I think it is pretty simple. Buying new requires TAX. The more failures and re-purchases, the more TAX.

      Governments have absolutely no interest in you only buying things once. Shoddy construction of throwaway items is good for the TAX economy.

      Buy used and maintain, buy broken and fix it. Screw the TAX thieves.

      On that, ask anyone how much tax they actually pay. Guaranteed they will have no clue as they will forget about value added tax, tax on bills, tax on gas, tax on food……. paid for with money they already paid income tax on.

  18. Heyyyyyy,
    I am in the No-A/C club and don’t mind sweating a bit with the windows down here in Houston, even during the summer. On the Xterra you get about 1-2+ MPG with the AC off. Silverado has no such gains. Once again, that pesky Climate-Change Denying ‘Nature and Physics Don’t Lie’ rears its head again…

    • AC is a requirement for me in modern cars. They aren’t set up to have proper air flow and the wind noise at speed is worse. Also the gutters for keeping water out of open windows, even a crack, perform poorly on modern cars. Cars old enough so they were designed not to have AC are much more livable without it. They’ll have vent windows to get good air flow and minimize the noise. The body will be designed to have the windows open. The gutters will work so the windows can still be opened a fair amount in the rain, etc.

      • I wish modern cars still offered vent windows! The fresh air felt great and was good for cooling off but without the noise from the road or traffic, it also directed the airflow so it didn’t blow air all over the cabin the way it does when the window is down. You’d think electric/hybrid vehicles would offer it as an alternative to using the a/c to keep from draining the battery.

        • And double that for office builsdings and skools, etc. too! Why must modern buildings have to have HVAC on 24/7 365 days a year, when merely beingc able to open windows could go a long way to significantly reducing energy useage/cost a good part of the year in many places?

          It’s absurd! They’re always bitching at us to “Conserve! Conserve! Conserve!”….but they’ve made us reliant on electronics in every aspect of life; and build buildings that require artificial ventilation even in the mildest weather!

          This will go down in history as the sickest society EVER!

            • Hmmm…sounds like that could cool the building (If the people kept going outside or jumping in a lake to dissipate the heat) but wouldn’t do much for the people 😮 !

              And no wonder people who work in these buildings are always sick! If ya can’t open the windows, where do all the farts go? Think of the thousands of farts each day that just must get recycled through the HVAC system and spread all around the building!

              I mean, ya rip one after lunch, in your cubicle on the second floor, and 20 minutes later some guy from the 13th floor comes down and pounds you, because it came through his vent, and he knew it was you, ’cause he saw you eating beans and hard-boiled eggs at lunch……

              • Nunzio,

                They use winders.

                When enough people are inside, the body heat sucks the cooler air inside with…

                Open fucking windows. The kind you can jump out of.

                And as soon as child safety seats are mandated for all children under the age of 100, in all buildings, this “new and scary” technology may be permitted in the US of A.

                Just imagine the benefits Nunzio. You’re sitting there with a 16 point safety harness, methane diverter wisking those nasty farts away to the EV charger in the parking lot, as you wait your turn for mandatory exercise in the giant gerbil cage/generator.

                Fucking Valhalla!

                (Jumping in the lake will result in a decrease of Soylent Green rations.)

                • Tuan, I don’t have to imagine it- I lived in New York City! T’was that way even in the 80’s when I lived there.

                  They’d even use your money to supply others with window bars…..I mean “guards”, so that the sprogs of the “disadvantaged” wouldn’t go spilling out of the windows (which are always painted shut) while they[sic] mama is busy making more beneficiaries and smoking crack.

                  And if the sprog ends up in the alleyway 6 stories below, then it’s the fault of dat ebil white landlord, for being so cruel and heartless as to not install windur guards in the first place, and for not coming and personally supervising that sprog so that it wouldn’t peel off and eat the layers of thick paint that the city made de ebil landlord put on the walls!

                  And if they woulda just given the mama mo’ money, so that she didn’t have to spend ALL her[your] money on crack and beauty supplies, maybe she coulda paid the lektric bill and kept the A/C running. So you see, it really be de white man’s fault!

                  • Nunzio,

                    “Tuan, I don’t have to imagine it- I lived in New York City!”

                    So you’re Snake Plisskin!

                    Looks like we’ll have to wait until the Mexican wall gets finished before they start on the Manhattan containment project.

                    I’m just waiting for the giant tsunami to come and cleanse the island.

                    • Only hope for that giant Roach Motel (Manhattan), Tuan, is to nuke the whole place- hopefully on a scale that’ll reach up to Chappaquah, Albany and CT. to get all the papa roaches who have made the place so!

                      Hmmm…seems like that may just happen, considering how we’re running rough-shod over the whole world these days and making the other big guys mad…..

                      Bet ya there will be windows that open in that wall!

                    • Nunzio,

                      “Hmmm…seems like that may just happen, considering how we’re running rough-shod over the whole world these days and making the other big guys mad…..”


                      That execution down south recently comes to mind.

                      How does the land of religious freedom deny ANYONE from having their pastor/rabbi/imam/pedophile priest at their side?

                      That’s like serving bacon cheeseburgers to a Jew on Passover.

                    • Hey Tuan, considering the way the middle-class and even lower working classes are fleeing NY, due to it’s already overt socialist policies which have driven away business and productive people, it’d be interesting to see if it can last another decade, what it will look like then. I say it’ll be the next Detroit- as will many of these liberal cities which are completely replacing their traditional population with third-worlders.

                      Even in the ‘burbs now, the average single fambly house which used to be occupied by a mama and papa and 2 kids, is now occupied by 15 or 20 legal or illegal immigrants, who deon’t seem to be harassed by the onerous laws that regulated every little aspect of what went on on the property when Americans lived there…..

                      All the good-paying jobs have gone/are going away……

                      The 6-figure civil-service pensions are going bust…

                      The already OUTRAGEOUS property and local income taxes are rising, as usual….

                      It’s gonna be interesting, to say the least- but I’m sure glad I’m not there in the midst of it. And if the looters who have feasted on this system for decades think that they are somehow going to maintain the status quo they are used to in light of the above…..they are more delusional than someone who believes that E-loon Musk[rat] is going to Mars…..

                    • Hiya Nunz!

                      In my old neighborhood, which was way out in the “sticks” of Northern Virginia, a solid hour-plus drive into the city, my old house and ones like it are now selling for around $500,000. These are very modest, appx. 1,200 sq. ft. tract homes, built in the ’70s – on 1/4 acre lots. Mediocre construction (e.g., not very straight studs on a thin concrete slab, sided with T-11). And people are paying half a million to live in them,

                      The annual property tax is around $6,000.

                      These are considered “affordable” homes in Northern Va. Move closer to the city and $500,000 might get you a townhouse.

                      Welcome to the American Dream.

                    • Mornin’ Eric!

                      Ha! Same exact scenario on Lawn Guyland (Only with double or more property taxes) and many other places these days. (Funny thing is, on LI, most homes for $400-$500K don’t even have central AC! My $12K used trailer does… )

                      It’s unsustainable. The 50 or 60 mile commutes take longer and longer- and couples having to both earn 6 figures just to stay afloat, means those half-million dollar bungalows are just places to keep their crap and sleep.

                      When the next housing bubble pops, as it should start to any day now- and already has showed signs of starting in some places, it should be interesting…. I think it’ll make the last one look like a game of tiddlywinks!

                      ‘Course N.VA. might be spared the brunt of it, since Uncle will still continue his extortion, which probabl;y accounts for 90% of the economy there, I’d imagine.

        • I’d imagine rolling the windurs down in these modern airy-dynamic turds probably doesn’t accomplish much in the way of cooling or providing a breeze (I don’t know- I’m lucky- I don’t drive the damned things).

          The young’uns (Anyone under 40) probably have no idear what a nice breeze ya used to get from vent windurs; or from rolling windurs down- especially in “square” cars.

          It was hypnotic! That glorious fresh air hitting you pleasantly, as long as you were moving. You never wanted to come to a stop, or get where you were going- much less roll up the windows for boring A/C!

          Damn, what we’ve lost!

          • I never owned a vehicle with vent windows, but they still made them for trucks when I was a kid and they were great and if I had the option to purchase that feature I would. I still roll the windows down, just not all the way. A fresh breeze is usually nicer than running the air conditioning; even when it’s too hot for anything except the a/c I still roll the windows down for a few minutes and let the heat escape from the cabin first. I can never understanding getting into a hot car, closing the windows and waiting for the a/c to cool it down while you sweat.

            • The thing is Spaz, if you’ve never ridden in an OLD car with the windows down….you’re missing 90% of the experience. It was completely different than it is with modern aerodynamic cars or even not-so aerodynamic trucks. It was almost like being in the open. It was glorious!

              Then you’d come to a stop, and it would stop for a few minutes….and it was such a let down, until ya got going again. Must be how a drug addict feels when coming down from a high.

    • I could go without AC. I did it as a child. Even my early cars had no AC.

      But then there’s the GF. She has me turn on the AC in my house so she can put on a sweater.

      • Funny how this stuff makes us soft and dependent.

        I lived my life till I was 40 years old without AC in any house I lived in- including some top-floor apartments with one window, which got sweltering in the evenings, in humid lower NY.

        Then, when I moved here to KY where, though the termps might be a little higher, the heat is a lot easier to take, since it’s normally not humid, and we’re not surrounded by cement.

        My place here has AC….I quickly got used to it. At firs just using it when it got over 85*F…..now I’m down to using it in the high 70’s, even though outside, 100+*F temps don’t bother me.

        But as a luxury, I turn the AC up to 74* (or is it down?) at night, as I like it cold when I sleep, and like sleeping with a cover. It’s one of those things that while not absolutely necessary, sure is nice to have while ya can.

        I use the AC in the house in the day, since it doesn’t cost much to do so here (Was NOT an option on Long Island!)- but the beauty is, if I didn’t have it (Like will likely be the case when I move to Thirdworldistan) I could just go outside and be happy- something that was not really an option in apartment life. (I’m outside most of the time anyway in the hot weather)

          • Guess it depends where yer from, Ancap….

            In my book, 85%!). IMO, the arid West- with it’s 15% humidity, is TOO dry.

            The way it is here in south central KY, is usually on the really hot days, the humidity will be REALLY low- like 30%.

            Then, of course, we do get short periods now and then, where it’ll be in the high 80’s or low 90’s with 80% humidity- or worse…but not all the time, like in NY.


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