The Nonconsent of the Governed

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The urban-rural problem waxes; it is like a bad marriage and the only solution is a divorce. But while the rural “man” would happily leave the marriage on reasonable terms and peaceably, the urban “woman” will never allow the “man” to leave.

It begs the question about consent of the governed – the supposed basis for legitimate government (assuming for the sake of discussion such a thing exists).

The answer to this question pretty much establishes the illegitimacy of the government.

In my home state of Virginia, for example, the rural (and geographic) majority of the state does not consent to being disarmed and criminalized by the government in Richmond – which represents Richmond and Northern Virginia.

90-plus percent of the state’s counties oppose the slew of gun confiscation/criminalization measures proposed and likely to be imposed upon them. The people of these rural counties did not consent to any of this. And they have no say in any of this – because the state government is controlled by the urban population centers, whose concentrated numbers give them a virtual lock on the state’s governing apparatus. The 90-plus percent geographic majority outside the urban hives of Richmond and Northern Virginia can vote but it’s becoming as meaningless a gesture as voting in the old Soviet Union, where there was one candidate on the ballot – and no option to say no.

But Saul Alinsky’s “rules for radicals” can work the other way, too. Use their (stated) principles against them by insisting they abide by them.

We do not consent. Yet you impose. This illegitimizes what you impose. We demand to be represented . . . by people who represent us. We will no longer accept being told what we must accept by you and the people who represent only you.

This applies just as logically – and morally – at the federal as well as the state level.

It is a mockery of the concept of representation to assert that the 15,000 residents of a rural county such as mine are “represented” by two senators elected by the millions who reside in Richmond and Northern Virginia and even more risibly by a president elected by millions of people who reside in other states and thousands of miles away.

Like sausage making, it does not bear examination.

And it all rests on the doublethinkian fiction of consent of the governed.

Have any of you reading this ever been specifically asked whether you consent to anything the government proposes to do to you? That question – if it were ever posed – would have to be based on the possibility of not consenting (without repercussion) else it is a parody of the concept of consent.

Of course, that question is never asked – and our answer is irrelevant. We are told we’ve “consented” – by dint of the fact that other persons claim to represent us – and that we have consented to what is done to us by dint of the having the opportunity to vote for or against these so-called representatives.

But – if words have meaning – representation must be specific, as in proxy power formally and freely given to do a particular agreed-upon thing. To be told you will do the opposite of what you wish to do – or wish not to do – by your “representative” is the oxymoronization of the very concept of representation. The defining essence of the thing is the reverse; the representative does as you command; he does not command you.

At least, not if you have consented to be represented by him.

Which, of course, none of us has consented to. It is implied, assumed – and imposed without our consent.

The fiction of representative government – and of consent – would be more believable if it were more local. If people in rural areas were in fact represented by the people who lived in those areas – and no one else. This goes just the same for those who live in urban areas.

They, too, have every right to be represented by those who represent their interests – freely consented to. If the people of Richmond and Northern Virginia consent to being disarmed, it is their right to disarm themselves.

But they have no right to bully people whom they manifestly do not represent solely by dint of their concentrated numbers. And their effrontery in asserting that the bullied have “consented” to this is a species of lunacy once found only in asylums for the criminally insane.

Who now “govern” us without consent and with contempt for the very idea of representation.

Why do we tolerate it?

That’s another question well worth answering.

. . .

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  1. A set of questions that authority seems ill perpared to answer:

    Was anyone born with an innate authority over another?

    Can anyone delegate an authority they don’t possess themselves?

    Then how did an authority no one had get delegated to a government?

    If the easy answer is “might is right” it contradicts the entire charters that all governments often claim to operate from: “to protect those who cannot protect themselves”.

  2. Eric, since I don’t see it yet in the comments, I recommend doing a search on Lysander Spooner and his famous treatise, No Treason. Spooner was an early 19th century lawyer and libertarian. In that essay he argues that, as the subtitle of that work says, “the Constitution of No Authority.”

    His argument is basically that as a binding contract, the US constitution and similar ones need affirmative consent of those “governed” to be valid. Very profound and well known in educated libertarian circles. Of course the counter argument, usually implied, is that these things aren’t really contracts at all. They appear to be but are in fact rules you are born into and can’t change or evade without considerable and difficult effort. As a practical matter, the plurality of citizens who select representative government leadership tell everyone else what to do. Like it or not, you learn to live with it or suffer the consequences.

    In my college ethics class, there was extensive discussion of the proper grounds for “civil disobedience.” When I argued that it should be the other way around, justifications for civil obedience (at gunpoint), this resulted in uncomfortable blank-out. This is the world we live in.

  3. “The apology, that is constantly put forth for the injustice of government, viz., that a man must consent to give up some of his rights, in order to have his other rights protected – involves a palpable absurdity, both legally and politically.”
    — Lysander Spooner

    The conversation has been going on a long time and answers are already out there. Most people simply haven’t been curious to find out.

    • See my own comment about Spooner above. You beat me to it about about 20 minutes. Nice to get bested by that, for a good cause. I was writing my comment when you posted yours.

      • Ever wonder why Lysander Spooner is not taught in the schools? I’m sure we both know. It is good to see another fan.

        The US Constitution’s First Amendment ought to have forbidden the federal government from having anything to say about education, for the same reason it forbids the government from any authority over religion and the press. Of course, the brain-dead will immediately argue that the Framers are to be forgiven for the omission because they did not anticipate the need, never having authorized the government to meddle in education in the first place. Of course, that argument was Hamilton’s argument against having the Bill of Rights (a misnomer, as I am sure you know) at all. Of course, Spooner is ultimately right: ones rights are never safe once one concedes that they may be abrogated at all.

        There are only three modes of association available to human beings: coercion, manipulation, and connection. Politics is the formalization of the first two modes, and government is the apotheosis of politics. “Limited government” is an oxymoron.

  4. Man is a sinner and everything he does, even the “good” things, is tainted by sin. The bible says the whole world lies in the grip of Satan, and that includes the United States. No human government has ever remained free of corruption and thus started the downhill slide. I tend to agree with Ken’s opinion about voting being a waste of time, since I believe both parties to be sides of the same coin; I happened across a site called Exegesis many years ago where there was an article discussing George Bush’s election (1st time), and that article referenced an article that had been written three years previously predicting Bush’s election in 2000 and the reasons behind it. That’s what told me presidential elections are pretty much fixed. I didn’t vote for him the 2nd time around. I didn’t vote democrat, either. I vote now as more of stop-gap measure than anything.

    • Kathy-

      How can this be? Unless you believe in some bizzarro world. A child has no choice or input into whether or not they are born, they are objectively neither good or bad. So how is anyone tainted, unless the father of God is Man(gasp!)? There is some set of bondage or guilt you wish to visit upon all who live and I suspect it is done to evade any responsibility for assenting to such an injustice. You were born therefore you owe, what about you?

  5. After applying for a New Mexico drivers license you are the recipient of four pages of evil titled “The Implied Consent Act.” They don’t actually hand you this document… it is embedded as part of the contract of converting the right to travel into a paid-for privilege. The Act declares the driver has waived all rights to claim and protect your saliva, breath, blood, possessions, vehicle and your body dead or alive. All of this was handed over willingly, by your consent, to the flying monkeys, when you placed that drivers license in your wallet. In New Mexico, when you receive a traffic ticket, the headline atop the document reads, “Uniform Traffic Violation.” Uniform means it’s the same company operating under the same guidelines as in every one of the 50 states. So it is highly likely you have agreed to all contents of the Implied Consent Act where ever the hell you live. Judge Napolitano, who has disappointed me greatly the past couple of years being so anti-Trump, has written something quite brilliant this morning. It regards an egregious violation of our 4th Amendment Rights which the USAPatriotAct has inflamed. One certain paragraph of the Act will expire on March 15th unless Congress votes to keep it alive. Read this…

    • Look into ‘withdrawal of deemed consent’. Send a notarized, registered letter of ‘withdrawal of consent’ specifying all the things they claim rights to. Put a date of required response on it of no more than 31 days. It will be ignored (this is good) but if it ever comes to it, it gives your lawyer something to work with.

      Because it will be ignored and not refuted, it becomes a binding contract. If they can ‘deem’ without consent, so can you.

      Again, no guarantees, but better than doing nothing. Gives more credence to a human rights or civil rights case if they ever bodily violate you.

      • Social Security form 521, withdrawal of application for benefits. While most people may have not accessed their retirement benefits the use of that number in anticipation of it is considered a benefit. How does one meaningfully exercise a legal “fuck off”?

        It started with the SS-5, thanks mom( or dad).

        If neither were either real residents of D.C. or real employees of an actual federal employer they would have commited perjury signing you on for the benefit of a credit you were never eligible for upon the taxes they signed under the penalties of perjury. You can’t ever be a US citizen, If you are black I would be infuriate.

        • Worse still it is likely they were never obligated to entertain such an arrangement. Your parents wanted a dependant credit against an income tax they were never obligated to honor. FRAUD.

        • Hi Max,

          Yes, indeed. Most of us “signed up” for SS when our parents applied for an SS number. How this imposes a binding obligation upon us mystifies me as it is even now a legal principle that a minor cannot be a party to any legally binding contract, for all the obvious and valid reasons. Yet – somehow – we are beholden to something signed by adults when we were infants and not even capable of speech, let alone comprehending what was on the table (so to speak).

          It is no different than an Indian marriage contract arranged by a kid’s parents. Few of us would say that a 14-year-old girl has a either or moral obligation to marry the unknown-to-her (or even the known-to-her) 17-year-old boy her parents and his parents decided to mate her with.

          So why, pray, are we beholden to an SS contract we could never have given our free, informed consent to – and which (as informed adults) we virulently do not consent to?

  6. There is a saying that if you don’t vote, you can’t complain. I take issue with that.

    I haven’t voted in years, since the time I realized that all I was doing was rubber stamping the system. I’ve been told numerous times that I can’t complain, but my reply is that I have the right to complain whether I vote or not.

    If I vote and the person I vote for wins, then I am at least partially responsible for what he/she does while in office. If I back a candidate who wins, then I bear some measure of responsibility for his/her actions. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. I prefer not to carry this load.

    Should I be blamed for the predicament we find ourselves in because I do not condone it? I don’t think so.
    The refusal to participate in an immoral, reprehensible system of power and control does not make me less worthy than the “good citizens” who do vote. Instead, I can sleep at night knowing that I did not take a bad situation and make it worse.

    Don’t vote, it encourages them.

    • Well said Roger, and I agree with all of it. I also have not consented to anything that does not represent me.
      I read another similar article that had a quote supposedly from Mark Twain. “If voting made a difference, they would not let us do it.”

    • My sentiments exactly, Roger!

      Someone getting to vote for which rapist gets to do the deed has as much of a true choice as the person has none, because the choice to not be raped is never an option- but if we choose the rapist, they can then say that at least it was “our choice” and therefore we “consented”.

      And you are so right about non-participation being the answer; not just as far as the political theater goes, but in life! If people would instead elect to practice their economics on the “underground market”; stop participating in schemes that require licenses/permits; stop sending their sprogs to communal government schools and colleges; stop seeking “benefits” (Farm subsidies, energy rebates, etc.)……stop calling the fuzz, etc. the government would either die of attrition, or it’s tyranny would become so obvious to the otherwise oblivious that no one but “civil servants” and their armed mercenaries would pay it any heed, and then the overlords and those who serve them would be out-numbered……

  7. I absolutely love the nexus of automobiles and politics that has begun to rear its beautiful head on this web site. Keep it up !

    Starting at the end of this article, “Why do we tolerate it ? The answer is multifactorial, but it all started on April 9, 1865 at Appomattox, not far from where Eric resides. We did NOT tolerate it, we opposed it for all we were worth, and we were invaded, killed in huge numbers, and force fed the doctrine that started with Alexander Hamilton and Henry Clay, and culminated with Adolph Lincoln. The current condition of the American government, from Richmond to DC, began on that date. It has not abated. The yankees say with great hubris that “They won”. I remind them that they did not win, WE ALL LOST ! At that point most agree with me.
    The process that began with Magna Carta, “Consent of the Governed”, has been killed by the same narcissistic personalities that cheated people who had to change their money in the ancient temple.
    HOWEVER….the ultimate reason we now tolerate our betrayal lies with us, not the aliens that have wormed their way into our culture. The explanation most clear to me is the gross lack of Moral Courage now existent. We sold out to what used to be known as Bread and Circus. Now experienced as “Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll”.
    This lack of moral courage is grounded in our addiction to women. Keeping them happy is more important than refusing the forbidden fruit. It is no coincidence that NYC portrays itself as “The Big Apple”. Same temptation, same people !
    If we cannot say “NO” to women, we will be ruled by government…

    • I’ve never heard it put in those terms before but one can certainly make correlations between giving the women the vote and liberalism rearing it’s ugly head.

    • “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right—a right which, we hope and believe, is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movement. Such minority was precisely the case of the Tories of our own Revolution. It is a quality of revolutions not to go by old lines, or old laws; but to break up both, and make new ones.”
      — Abraham Lincoln, Speech in the US House of Representatives on the War With Mexico, 1848

      “Adolph” Lincoln reveals himself to be a hypocrite.

      We did NOT sell out to “sex, drugs, and rock and roll;” we sold out to welfare, free stuff, to phony virtue signalling, and the poisonous idea that compassion effected with someone else’s money, taken by theft, without consent (slavery), is justified. Also, revolutions are messy, and come at a high price in the blood of innocents as well as that of the wicked.

      “All experience has shown that mankind is more disposed to suffer — while evils are sufferable — than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
      — Thomas Jefferson, The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, 1776

      You are right though, we used to be made of sterner stuff:

      “Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the British empire a man who more cordially loves a union with Great Britain than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the British Parliament propose; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America.”
      — Thomas Jefferson, November 9, 1775

  8. Government is not the problem…it’s the egotistical control freaks in charge that is the problem. Not in the headlines is the fact that world population will peak sometime in this century. Fertility rates are dropping all over the world, including America where we are now below the 2.1 benchmark for maintaining population. The idiots in the government who want to control populations to assuage their fears of not having enough resources are adding to the demise of human existence. Of course, this isn’t a threat at the moment, but several hundreds of years from now, none of this nonsense will matter. People are so bored with themselves they need to create something to pretend the are alive and in control. And many of these misanthropes hate the world because they hate themselves.

    • Hi Tom,

      “Government is not the problem…it’s the egotistical control freaks in charge that is the problem”.

      So, a coercive monopoly institution that attracts and rewards sociopaths (egotistical control freaks if you prefer), allows and encourages them to do things that would be unambiguously immoral and illegal if done by “us”, declares illegal any actual checks on its power, offering the cynical con of “voting” in place of them, declares itself to have a monopoly on judging its own actions relative to the law, rendering both the “control freaks” and the institutions that profit from them, effectively outside of and above the law, can change the supposed “contract” “we” have with it at will, and imprison or kill us if we do anything more substantial than casting a meaningless vote in protest, is not the problem?


  9. If you’re thinking of running, I’ll make a pitch for Kentucky. I’ve lived all over the country, currently in Lexington. I’ll assume, like me, you probably do better in a red state (though I wish we didn’t have to choose). While Lex itself is becoming infested with liberals, it’s still clean and pretty low crime. The rural areas are better, though you have to watch out for areas with a lot of druggies. Otherwise, we do have one decent senator (Rand Paul), and the Dem governor only barely squeaked in last year, so I think the hostile takeover by the left is still a ways off.

    I’m in my late 50s, and plan to retire to an RV when I can (at 62), so I’ll likely be running the rest of my life. Summers in the Rockies, winters in Florida (my daughters live there). I do pity the future generations, it’s only getting worse. One part of me would almost welcome the Bern getting elected and destroying the country so we can rebuild it, but I’m too old for that shit. I’ll have to leave that to my grandkids’ generation.

    • Right-on, Jim. I’m down near the TN border; moved here almost 19 years ago from the People’s Republik Of Nueva York….and it was truly one of the very best decisions I’ve ever made….but sadly, as the youinger generation is coming “online” I’m seeing the changes compared to when I first moved here; I see the very same things that ruined NY starting to encroach…it’s just taking a little longer- and my next step will be to leave these shores- but for the present, KY is definitely in the top two or three (Wyoming being presumably #1- if one can stand the cold!- Main difference being that KY is a little “crowded”, but there’s still a lot of emptiness in WY)

  10. Talk about the illegitimacy, absurdity and tyranny of government; even if wee-the-rural were truly represented, just which faction or individuals among us would be represented? While in the case of the 2A, it would definitely be a good thing, the usual dichotomies would still exist. The very same suspects who would help us defend the 2A, would be the same ones who would also further the goals of “law enforcement”, and the War On [some] Drugs, etc.

    Mob rule…only with a different mob. How very evil this this invention of “democracy”.

    Sadly, most voters, rather than maintaining and adhering to an actual political and philosophical ideology and then voting for someone who advocates those ideals, instead merely subscribes to the superficial practicalities and schemes of a political party which they feel most closely benefits their personal situation and beliefs, and which seeks to impose such on everyone.

    They feel that they have this “right” since they pay taxes and vote- nev er considering that their opponents do the same, nor questioning why and how one should be forced to pay taxes in what is proclaimed as a “free country”, nor what gives any group of men the authority to impose various schemes and ideals on others who have committed no aggression against others (But who will have aggressions committed against them if they fail to “comply”)- as if somehow a majority of voters has the moral right to confer the authority to govern the lives of all.

    As long as people believe in the legitimacy of government, they will easily be pacified to accept whatever the tyrants who rule them desire.

  11. A bit off topic but this corona virus thing. Does this mean all the TSA people are being repeatedly exposed? Will they get sick and die?

    Trying very hard not to smile about the thought.

    • Hi Anon,

      In re: “Does this mean all the TSA people are being repeatedly exposed? Will they get sick and die?”

      I am humming Elvis right now . . . if I can dream…

    • A bit more on the corona virus. China makes about 80% of the drugs used in America. India makes a large percentage of the rest, but sources the precursors from China. India also just shut down all exports of drugs as they figure they will need them. China production is way down and it looks like they will also stop exporting to cover their own needs.

      With IIRC 40+% of all Americans on some form of Happy Pills (Soma), and cold turkey from many of these leading to severe psychosis, this could get very interesting as the curse goes.

      If you know folks on these Happy Pills, keep an eye on them. If you know people with the need of prescription drugs to stay alive, try to convince them to stock up or find alternatives. Assuming they are people you want to survive. If they are state worshiping, three-letter-agency types, government workers, cops or cop-suckers, say nothing.

    • IDK about the gaggle of overweight she-boons usually working the TSA cordons at the airport if a mere bug can finish them off. Won’t shed a tear if that happens.

      I’m wrapping up an honest-to-“Gawd” vacation; spent most of the week in “Arid-Zona’, visiting old friends there, my “neff-few” whom put me up, and caught some Spring Training baseball. The old haunts in Tempe and Mesa have been overrun by a gaggle of “diverse-shitty”, as “whitey” has fled for Chandler, Gilbert, and Queen Creek. At least their freeways are catching up with the explosive population growth, especially that 202 South Mountain bypass.

      Before I head back to Sac town, stopped off in Vegas (Henderson, actually) to spend time with #2 son. Exercised our 2A rights at our favorite shooting range on BLM land outside of Pahrump yesterday. Can’t sing the praises enough of the boy’s Type 99 Arisaka bolt-action rifle, it’s got one sweet action (7.7 x 58 ammo is a tad expensive, though, some were re-chambered in .30-06 to match the M1 Garand). Vegas is what it is, but gradually itself being “flipped blue” and becoming another multi-cultural hell-hole. It’s yet another example of how “Demon-cracy” can ruin “paradise”, by the idiotic concept of “Majority Rule” (if the “majority” were right, would they not all be RICH?).

      When I leave “Murica” in the AM tomorrow, as I cross back into the People’s Republic of Cali(porn)ia, I wonder what will be in store at the “agricultural” checkpoint (re: Commiefornia’s version of “Checkpoint Charlie”, actually, for I-15 the Helmstedt gate would be more accurate). They’ve been all a-twitter over the overblown Coronavirus thing. I’ll see what manner of costumed AGWs are manning the place, and if anything unusual happens, let ya know.

      • Dear goodness, Doug! Those “bugs” will interbreed with cooties and remains of aborted niglets in the TSA she-boon’s cooter and produce the most virulent and deadly strain ever known to man!

        Hey, sounds like you had a “garand” time! 🙂

        Disgusting how they’re ruining all of these places though! The cancer is spreading quickly now- oozing from the coasts. Not bad enough that most of our major cities were already largely ruined by the jigs….but oh no, there aren’t enough of them, and they’re too messed up on drugs and lazy to do anything much outside of their own little areas, so what do our overlords do, to dilute the population? They flood the country with every species of third-worlder known to man- people who are functional enough to take over….but not functional enough to maintain liberty nor appreciate the better culture which they have been summoned to displace.

  12. The question of rural vs. urban representation was corrupted as a direct consequence of the Supreme Court’s decision in Reynolds v. Sims in the early 1960s.

    The Court ruled that states were required to draw the boundaries of legislative districts not by geography, but by population, and that the population of each must be roughly equal. The Court coined the phrase “one man, one vote” — which, of course, appears NOWHERE in the actual Constitution, because the country was founded as a republic of states, NOT as a “democracy.”

    Naturally, the Court-mandated redistricting favored cities and disfavored rural areas. Opponents of the decision argued that the Court had declared unconstitutional the very principle upon which the U.S. Senate was created by the Framers, but to no avail.

    50+ years later, all the Democrats need to do is flood the cities with immigrants and minorities, and they are guaranteed to win, forever, and exercise total control verthe rural areas that comprise 90% of the country.

    And they know it.

    As they say, “there are no accidents in politics.”

    • Yeah, they just slice the pie so that there is a big enough piece of some big city in each district to overwhelm the rural vote, so there is not even one rural representative.

    • The doctrine dispensed by Reynolds v Sims — that state legislative districting is subject to federal review and approval — illustrates how state sovereignty has been annihilated by the clanking Leviathan in Washington, just as anti-federalists predicted no sooner than the runaway constitutional convention in Philadelphia released its rotten blueprint for centralized Hamiltonian tyranny.

      By the way, the dictum “one man, one vote” itself has lapsed into Crimethink, as it malevolently presumes a gender — the categorically entitled and oppressive one at that. “One lifeform, one vote” is suitably non-discriminatory and even leaves room for suffrage by other species such as San Francisco liberal Democrats.

      Ultimately hulking Leviathan is more likely to be hobbled by financial collapse than by physical violence (though as the saintly Lincoln graphically demonstrated, it has no hesitation to burn cities and slaughter its subjects by the millions).

      A bipartisan consensus, having concluded that “debt doesn’t matter,” has set the sprawling fedgov on the path of exponentially increasing debt pioneered by Zimbabwe, Argentina and Weimar Germany. The wheels of debt default grind slowly but exceedingly fine.

  13. To govern is to control, and to fully control something, consenting to control negates any need for consent on their part in the first place. Can you withhold agreement to “consent of the governed”, if not, how in any meaningful way is this consent?

    Another point is the suffix “ment” as in “government”, It takes an idea or concept and firmly renders it a adjective or noun. In the dissection of the word “government”, there is the verb “govern”(control) and the suffix “ment”(for or of the mind). At this point a fair alternative might be mind control. Which is funny because in the Bill of Rights it seems one can be a catholic, protestant, scientologist, wiccan, or any other alternative or substitution under the first amendment, yet one is not allowed to be agnostic or atheist in regards to the ideology that is a government itself.

  14. Some years ago when we still lived in town, we went to a public meeting for a “proposed” new ordinance. The room was packed with people ALL vehemently opposing the new law. After about an hour of barely civil public comment, one of the council members said: “we have already voted to approve this measure; this meeting is just required by law before it takes effect.” In other words: “F*ck all you people; we are going to do whatever we want whether you like it or not.”

  15. I have yet to see the “social contract” I’m supposedly bound by. That’s because its a fairy tale. Gang rape is democracy in action. Keep the KY close by. Voting is pointless, given that the choice is which sociopath gets to command the armed forces arrayed against you. In fact, the sociopath that wins can proclaim “this many voted for me”, so better not to vote. From what would they fabricate their authority if no one voted at all? The US Constitution is a dead letter, and has been since its inception, since it leaves the fox in charge of the hen house. A good amendment could be “if you can make a good faith argument that you believe someone has violated one of your constitutionally guaranteed rights, you can shoot them”, which of course is the PURPOSE of the 2A. I’m afraid that voting with your feet is no longer an option, as the US Sociopaths In Charge have pretty much converted the entire world to tyranny. Fortunately, in a liberty sense, the global banking cartel that runs the governments of the world is on the precipice. Unfortunately, that’s going to be an economically painful process. Also unfortunately, there will likely be a spasm of absolute tyranny as they grasp at the last straws of power, which could lead to a nuclear war and instantly solve all our problems. We can govern ourselves, or be governed by monsters.

    • “From what would they fabricate their authority if no one voted at all?”

      The answer to this, sadly, is from the barrels of their guns. It has always been that way, and I think always will. Regardless how they dress it up.

  16. Just being factual here, but in the background and foreground of ‘gun control’ are jews. It is, and has been a mostly jewish push to take away guns from the people.

    • They also push for unfettered immigration here, and in Europe. By the way…communism is jewish in nature and implementation. Read Solzhenitsyn

        • You mean the Henry Ford who recanted it all before he died?

          You bigoted crackers are full of shit. There are plenty of good ol’ ordinary white folk pushing for gun control and all the rest of the crap you want to blame others for. Oh, and while we’re at it, communism is based on philosophies going back to the white ancient world. Read a history book sometime, boy.

          • The elite Jews work from the top, down. They setermine the agendas…then get the goy- from the rich and powerful, down to the plebes, to do their bidding, while few see yarmulked masters at the top.

            White people push gun-control because that is what is promulgated by the media and skools…..of which almost all goys are a product of today..

    • You are not being factual at all, numbnuts, you are either ignorant of history or just lying to justify your bigotry.

      Gun control in the U.S. has a long history. Aside from Jim Crow laws passed by white guys to forbid blacks owning, one of the earliest gun control laws was New York State’s Sullivan Act of 1911, named after its primary sponsor, a white politician named Timothy Sullivan. Subsequently other white politicians such as FDR have pushed gun control since that time. History confirms that gun control was started by and promoted by good ol’ white christians. You lose.

      • Jason-

        This politician Timothy Sullivan surely made his way promising the property of one set of people to another set of people, of course he would likely want to disarm those who would be able to resist these advances, it is a component of overcoming others. I get checking your gun if you are drinking at a saloon. Abandoning the entire concept of self-defense seems to guarantee a train of victims. Another problem to be solved, see how this works?

      • Hi JdL,

        I’ve had innumerable arguments with “conservatives” regarding the race thing and stated the inarguable fact that my fellow white men have materially oppressed me far more than say Muslims or blacks (the two usual suspects in the “conservative” pantheon of miscreants).

        Hamilton, Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Nixon . . . more recently, The Chimp. Yes, Barry. But there has only been one of him.

        Collectivism sucks, whether practiced by “your own” or otherwise.

  17. I dunno Eric: I think the lefties have made enough inroads in the rural areas such that there is *just enough* of them to tip the balance of the vote. IF the rural areas were monolithic, with 90% voting against blue candidates, then the rural population might still hold the urban population in check. However, if the rurals go even 20% blue, then that’s enough for a blue lock. Makes me wonder if the reds should abandon campaigning in the urbans and just stick to the rurals, to help swing it back to monolithic support.

    • The problem in VA’s last election is that 30 Dems ran UNOPPOSED! There was no one else to vote for; there was no GOP, no Libertarian, no nothing. In elections as in the lottery, one has to be IN it to win it…

    • Case in point, Rep. Pocan of Wisconsin. He is an open sodomite pervert who got himself elected from what one would easily assume to be a God fearing rural area.

      • Yeah, suddenly going the same way here even in KY where the majority of the poipulation is rural/small-town. Things were going relatively well….they even enacted constitutional-carry last year…. Then, they just elected a Dumbocrap governor a few months ago- and one of the first things the prick does is decree that health insurers must cover pre-existing conditions . (But of course, the so-called “conservatives” allowed it, too)

        Hmmm…will they be doing this with car insurance too?

        Every square inch of this country is going full Marxist. Plenty of lefties and libruls even here in the country- if only because they haven’t had to experience the consequences of liberalism, having lived where they’ve been largely free, thanks to the better folks around them.

        In a contest where the only choices are the right and the left….no matter who wins….all we get is more tyranny- just the verbiage is different.

  18. What really bugs me is when these doofuses (doofii?) refer to themselves as our “leaders.” No, Skippy, I only grudgingly elected you to represent me, mainly because I had to choose between bad and worse or not voting at all (I often choose Option #3), i.e. I had no choice in the matter. I sure as hell didn’t elect you to “lead” me and I never would.
    IMO, a leader is a leader by virtue of having good ideas, something meaningful to say, charisma, sets an example for others, etc. People follow leaders willingly because they respect and admire them for their own reasons.
    Some leaders may seek and win elected office, but not everyone in an elected office is a leader.

    • I like to ask “where are you going? What are you doing? That you think you need a leader?”

      Are you really unable to lead yourself to that?
      Is your leading leading you to that?

      Enforcement Question
      No, I asked where YOU are going.

  19. When you vote it is considered consent whether real or not,,, which is why I stopped voting. It is a waste of time. You yourself said there is no way the rural counties could outvote the population centers, yet you do so even knowing you won’t be represented in fact knowing ALL candidates are only interested in the population centers where the money is.
    What may help is a setup much like the national elections where the small states cannot be overrun by the populated States. Of course one can see that being dismantled after the 2016 vote where Hillary got the majority. One man, one vote is the new mantra, soon to be implemented.
    Face it, Any type of democracy does not work. There is no system of government that works. Go to Internet voting the same problems exist. The population centers will prevail. No piece of paper can protect you. Look at our Constitution for example. It was being ignored by the first President.
    One can come up with all sorts of ideas, but when you start delving into it you find the same problems. The flotsam always rises to the surface. Tyranny always wins (for a while) because the masses are too lazy and eventually too scared. They are passing laws now that can put you behind bars for just speaking out. Granted they haven’t started using them in a big way but they will. Under the NDAA you can be incarcerated and/or killed with no trial. The FBI is now incarcerating folks that said on one of the social networks that — You can’t get away with this forever —. Laws now like Cyber Stalking,,, Hate Speech et all are there to shut you up under the guise of protecting those in the “protected classes”.
    Have no clue what the answer is but for sure what we have in this world today is not it. And let me add,,, global government will be the nail in our coffin if it ever comes to be.

    • Almost every single time I have voted I voted for the winning candidate. Yet that candidate has never been allowed to take office.

  20. Eric,

    Time to vote with your feet! If you stay put, you are voting for, and CONSENTING TO the way things are NOW.

    True, Va’s affliction could potentially metastasize to any other state. But there are many states where you can still live relatively free, and contribute more effectively to the resistance.

    Strategic Relocation…’s what freedom lovers need to do, now!

      • Az is still pretty free. Yes, it’s threatened by Kalifornification, but they’re still the minority. And if more freedom lovers relocate here, we will remain the majority. Outside of the major metros, no emissions certs required . 🙂

        Texas is now kind of a purple state. It definitelyt could be reclaimed through an influx of freedom lovers from other states.

        Some parts of Idaho aren’t all that cold. Elevation of Boise is only 2700′.

        Nevada?? Wouldn’t be my first choice. But I’d rather move there than stay in one of the evil states.

        Wish I knew more about the Real South. My opinions for that region would be purely speculative.

        Good Luck!

        • Well, there is the demographics. “Certain” percentages are the highest in the US except for some urban areas. I’m sure a lot are fine people, but statistics are statistics.

        • I have lived in the Deep South for years. I lived in Alabama, North Carolina and the Florida Panhandle. Back in the early 1990’s the Florida Panhandle, Pensacola, was the most fun area by a mile. It was largely conservative, gun owning and had a very interesting mixture of people living there. Unfortunately, Pensacola has gone downhill and eroded into meth heads and drifters in the northern part of the city, which used to be largely rural in nature. Neighborhoods have declined drastically. I would characterize it as a dangerous place. Alabama was a hard place for me to adapt to. I lived there from 1994 to 1997. I spent a significant amount of time there afterwards until 2001 when I left the deep south for a spell. Their taxes and cost of living are low. Highly insular is how I would describe the people, particularly the females. It was hard to get laid and there was little to recommend it. The plus side is that it is a God fearing, gun toting area. Unfortunately, the AGWs have taken over the highways there and driving has become a hassle. I am kind of surprised by that. Alabama voters are very common sense, but I don’t trust their AGWs at all. North Carolina was a happy combination of Northern and Southern influences, although their taxes border on confiscatory. The cost of living there is not cheap. There are more AGWs on the freeways there, but they enforce the laws unevenly, giving you a shot at getting out from under their thumb. There are some amount of plea options that you can take. Housing is higher because it is more industrialized and a more desirable area altogether. The coast is an absolute blast. I was last there in 2003. I would not recommend North Carolina as a place to settle because it is too similar to Virginia. Bottom line – the Deep South is no longer the Deep South. It is marred by higher taxes, costs of living and government workers.

        • Arizona would be good, except that I keep seeing more and more incidents involving cops. And I mean VIOLENT cops. Not sure if AZ is as good a place to go as it once was.

          • It’s a constitutional carry state and the police consider everyone armed. Add to that the illegals that have flooded across the border and Phoenix and Tuscon’s proximity to the border and you have a recipe for shooting first and asking questions later.

            • Hi Jim,

              I’m very familiar with AZ as my parents lived there for about 20 years and I visited Phoenix often. It’s a beautiful state but there’s tyranny there, too. And in every state. You can dodge some of it by living in a a low population area – but it’s still there. Until there’s a general awakening and people shed the tenets of “we” (collectivism) nothing fundamental will change.

              • The tyranny level varies vastly, depending upon the county, and the cities therein. In Maricopa County, where Phoenix is located, the Mesa cops are worst in terms of killing civilians. Sadly, the city seems to back them up.

                On the other hand, Yavapai county mounties are everything you could ask of LEOs. City cops there are generally pretty decent too. There are of course, plenty of traffic citations on the most tourist heavy roads, but still below outrageous levels found in other places.

                Bottom line, stay out of Mesa and Gilbert, and Az’s cop factor is not too bad…..better than in many other states.

                Of course, Quartzite is “special.” I would never get off the I-10 for gas there.

      • Consider Charleston SC. 7:1 female to male ratio, old city charm and in a conservative state. Mild winters with daytime temps in Jan in the 60s. March is Spring here. Killer foodie joints and bars. Many Rivers and The Atlantic Ocean, beaches are lovely. Go a few miles West and it’s as rural as Green Acres “Old South” style.

        • Victoria BC has (or had when I saw the stat) 8:1 woman:man ratio.

          Unfortunately it is the retirement capitol of Canada so the average age of the women is about 70. My cut off age is 40. Unless they are exceptional, too many start to resemble post-op trans after that.

          • If only it were true. An 8:1 female/male ratio only ever existed in the Land of the Amazons. And the price of living there with a y-chromosome was you had to be a eunuch and launder their negligee. Sniffing it was an automatic death sentence.

      • Eric, my conclusion is that all the nice climate places in the US are already fokked up: too many and the wrong kinds of people. I’m sure there are still nice parts of Arizona (one of my daughters lives down there) and they supposedly have the best gun laws in the US, but the urban/rural population disparity means it could flip really bad in a hurry.

        It seems like the miserable long winters is the only thing keeping places like ND, MT, WY, and ID halfway decent in regard to traditional American freedoms.

        • Hi Anon,

          Yup. Rock meet hard (or cold) place. For me, harsh/long winters are a non-negotiable deal breaker. I can barely tolerate the four or so months of winter I have to deal with as it is. I would shoot myself if half the year was cold and dark; having to dress like a got-damned Eskimo and almost everything I like to do put on hold for . .. six months every six months. It’s like losing half your life.

          • Well, it’s nice here today: 50 degrees and 40 mph wind gusting to 60. It’s great if you can stand up outside and not slip and fall down in the mud. It’s only been winter here since Sept 30 so only a few more months to go. Is there winter in SW VA ?

      • There are NO places in the US with freedom. The entire US is slavery. Believe it or not Virgina has the best chance of starting the process to ending the Tyranny in the US. The 2A sanctuary effort, while intellectually inept, did exemplify a first effort of Virginian’s spirit of resistance.

        The biggest problem we have is that people all over the US are predominantly unintelligent. They can’t see the winning activities and strategies they need to exercise to remove the tyranny. This presents a huge problem because this means they need leaders to teach them the winning strategies which will make the leaders the target and easy pickins for the tyrants to set up and dispose of. Most people want to try to hide to minimize the threat which is ultimately a losing strategy. The winning strategies are already known but it is going to take intelligence, bravery and sacrifice beyond the tyrants ability. Mastering law and justice is the path to discovering the strategy individually without leaders teaching, organizing or centralizing targets for infiltration. The strategy and activities MUST bubble up from all directions WITHOUT organizations – in fact for those who master the law they already know that the formation of organizations is ONLY for the purpose of drawing the criminal tyrants into a trap that intentionally put criminals exactly where you want them to be.

        Make no mistakes, the tyrants are criminals, they have overthrown the gov, have unlawfully enslaved the entire population, are committing every criminal act in existence and ultimately indicting, prosecuting, convicting and executing them is REQUIRED. If people want to be free from tyranny they are going to have to master the law and exercise the process of actual lawful justice that is superior in execution to the tyrants facade of justus. This seems to be the furthest activity from people minds which exemplifies the near hopelessness of our predicament.

        As far as consent, voting, etc. Unregister to vote, formally notify them that the government has been overthrown by criminals, any paperwork you feel you must fill out or face an injury by them, get clarification from them on the record and put under duress on it.

        Master the law, begin the process of formally building evidence for the tyrants criminal prosecution, build case files and intelligence dossiers on each of them, conduct formal criminal investigations on them gaining testimonies, witnesses, evidence of motive, intent, elements of their crimes in a manner superior to the federal rules of criminal investigations. Read their training, procedures, etc. Read common law cases over the last 800 years, master the elements that make up criminal acts use that as your guide, master rules of evidence, build chain of custody for evidence. Learn exactly how they are committing capital crimes, get the evidence, seek unobstructed access to grand juries for indictments with your case files WITHOUT showing to commonwealth attorneys, advocate for grand jury presentments, with evidence openly advocate for their prosecution, conviction and execution. Start local efforts for extracating the BAR from gov -BAR Prohibition sanctuaries that prohibit local municipal funds from being paid to BAR members. Read law dictionaries over as long a time span as possible as lay out certain words to see how the BAR has criminally conspired to migrate word definitions as part of their strategy to levy war on the US.

        Build traps for them EVERYWHERE.

        Keep going, teach your children the common law, teach them the fraud, blame voters for the crimes accessories – investigate them too.

        • Have you? It is tough to find out exactly what “law” is.
          You can try
          of you can pay Luis Ewing if you the government is after you right now. But, I have been at this for twenty years and the easiest thing anyone can do is give the demons an excuse to lock you up.

          • All slavery is by consent. That type of consent is derived from fear. If you fear them then you have not abided the divine law. If you don’t abide by divine law then the tyrants will be your teachers and enslave you. If you don’t learn your lesson then you will be a slave forever. If you think a website is going to give you the information you need then you are not paying attention. The sites that had the best info were shut down long ago. The BAR conspirators are strategically altering the historical online texts and even stealing books out of libraries. The warfare being levied by the BAR conspirators is to alter definitions of words and even alter historical records or remove them all together. If you think that you can’t gain evidence of their crimes then you are incompetent. If you cower in fear then you deserve to be enslaved.

        • Nobody,

          While you’re observations regarding our predicament are spot-on, the part about “mastering the law” is…uh…I’m trying to say it in a nice way…..uhh…nonsense. [Don’t take offense, you’re a nice guy!]

          No law can tame the lawless. They ignore their own laws and exempt themselves from it; they’ll just make more laws…or “reinterpret” the old ones, so they work in their favor and against us; They control edumacation and the courts, and the media is on their side- so the jurors will crucify you for not paying your extortion, but will let them off scot-free when they murder us for no reason, as their armed goons often do.

          It’s about power. He with the biggest guns and the most people paying allegiance wins. They train the sprogs of the peons to give allegiance every day by reciting a pledge from toddlerhood; and they have all the machine guns and the nukes and the helicopters and the planes- and the pledge-sayers to man them…..

          Until enough people stop worshipping the Beast; the false god- we are screwed. The only resort for those who care is escape their jurisdiction and lay low….and wait until what they have created destroys itself…and destroy itself it will! They’re killing their own golden goose!- Filling their world with dysfunctional troglodytes- ones made at home, as well as imported ones- and driving the people who created all of the wealth and a healthy society away.

          • “It’s about power”. What has the supreme power? GOD! GOD IS LAW, THE supreme judge of ALL. “”mastering the law” is … nonsense” = GOD IS NONSENSE. Maybe you don’t know the law therefore you can’t possibly uphold the law? Have you EVER tried to uphold the law? NO! WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE IN THIS PREDICAMENT? Because in your LAWLESSNESS you ASSUMED you ‘know’ what power is and you GAVE UP, thereby consenting to be a slave to CRIMINALS!

            God is no respecter of persons. Do you have any clue what this actually means? NO! God laid down the law but have you followed and upheld the Law? NO! What happens if you uphold the law? The protections of divine law carries the grace upon you. What happens if you consent to criminals ENSLAVING YOU? You become their SLAVE. IS THIS OBVIOUS? YES!

            God told you to not be afraid and what did you do? You FEAR! You have violated the law NOT upheld it. YOU ARE THE LIABLE PARTY AND WILL RECIEVE THE PUNISHMENT DUE TO YOU. It is OBVIOUS!

          • “It’s about power”. What has the supreme power? GOD! GOD IS LAW, THE supreme judge of ALL. “”mastering the law” is … nonsense” = GOD IS NONSENSE. Maybe you don’t know the law therefore you can’t possibly uphold the law? Have you EVER tried to uphold the law? NO! WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE IN THIS PREDICAMENT? Because in your LAWLESSNESS you ASSUMED you ‘know’ what power is and you GAVE UP, thereby consenting to be a slave to CRIMINALS!

            God is no respecter of persons. Do you have any clue what this actually means? NO! God laid down the law but have you followed and upheld the Law? NO! What happens if you uphold the law? The protections of divine law carries the grace upon you. What happens if you consent to criminals ENSLAVING YOU? You become their SLAVE. IS THIS OBVIOUS? YES!

            God told you to not be afraid and what did you do? You FEAR! You have violated the law NOT upheld it. YOU ARE THE LIABLE PARTY AND WILL RECIEVE THE PUNISHMENT DUE TO YOU. It is OBVIOUS!

          • “It’s about power”. What has the supreme power? GOD! GOD IS LAW, THE supreme judge of ALL. “”mastering the law” is … nonsense” = GOD IS NONSENSE. Maybe you don’t know the law therefore you can’t possibly uphold the law? Have you EVER tried to uphold the law? NO! WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE IN THIS PREDICAMENT? Because in your LAWLESSNESS you ASSUMED you ‘know’ what power is and you GAVE UP, thereby consenting to be a slave to CRIMINALS!

            God is no respecter of persons. Do you have any clue what this actually means? NO! God laid down the law but have you followed and upheld the Law? NO! What happens if you uphold the law? The protections of divine law carries the grace upon you. What happens if you consent to criminals ENSLAVING YOU? You become their SLAVE. IS THIS OBVIOUS? YES!

            God told you to not be afraid and what did you do? You FEAR! You have violated the law NOT upheld it. YOU ARE THE LIABLE PARTY AND WILL RECIEVE THE PUNISHMENT DUE TO YOU. It is OBVIOUS!

            • You’re partly right, Nobody.

              It really comes down to whom we worship- God, or The Beast[the state].

              The state seeks to replace God; it has it’s own laws, which are antithetical to God’s laws. You can not serve God and man. All who seek to walk godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

              No fear of man- just don’t get caught-up in the worship of the Beast, nor in the punishments God uses Babylon to mete out- just as he used literal ancient Babylon to punish the rebellious Jews. Flee Babylon!

              Trying to restrain the Beast by it’s own laws, or the law of God is a waste of time, because they respect no law and no god, other than themselves- and the Bible tells us how it plays out at the end: The nations are destroyed by the brightness of His coming.

              The lawless serve the Beast; those keeping God’s law can not serve the Beast.

              “A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished. ” -Prov. 22:3

              • This God fellow. I am told he is omnipresent and omnipotent by some. Is this correct? I am assuming it is the belief.

                So, is it that he does not care that the evil are ruling us? Why is it allowed? Does he not care enough to help? Is it his will that we be oppressed?

                Or, is it that he is powerless to help?

                Seems he is either impotent, indifferent or approves of what they do, no?

                Or, possibly, does not interfere because he does not actually exist?

                • He does care. That’s why Jesus had to become a man and die on the cross. But God is not a puppet master, and man has free will to choose which path he wants to follow.

                • Anon,

                  Yours is a very common argument; On the one hand, those who make this argument want God to be a totalitarian, and forcibly control human actions so that people can do no evil; on the other hand, they scream that God is vengeful and merciless any time they observe someone reaping negative consequences for not doing things God’s way, or if they perceive any tragedy as being a punishment from God.

                  In other words, they want a god who will somehow control all human actions, but without imposing any consequences for disobedience, and while still allowing free-will.

                  The only such a scenario could exist would be if humans were to be mindless automatons. In reality, God created us so that we might become like Him- and exercise righteous character regardless of circumstances. The evcil and disobedient fit into this scenario by creating circumstances which enable us to see the disparity between God’s ways and man’s ways- and which actually help us build character- because after all, if it were a perfect world where evil was never a choice nor had to be resisted in this mere temporal life, imagine the consequences which would result in a more powerful and permanent spiritual existence!

                  This whole business of men ruling men is something that MAN chose in opposition to God- even God’s very people made such a choice, as seen in 1 Samuel chapter 8, :

                  But this arrangement will not continue much longer. Jesus Christ is returning and He will rule this world- deposing Satan, and his human minions. God has given us 6000 years to go our own way….and what we see around us is the culmination of man’s way 🙁 . If God were not to intervene, this whole world would soon be a prison, and all life would be destroyed- we are even to the point where men now possess that capability.

                  • What I (or anyone else) “want” God to do is irrelevant to the question.

                    That is an awful lot of verbiage and rationalization to avoid answering the simple question, “Is God indifferent or impotent.”

                    What you propose is a third option, that he is just a sadistic jerk who enjoys watching his creations suffer, just to build character as you suggest. That is even worse than indifferent.

                    Seriously, would rape, child molestation, abuse of any and all kinds just be considered “character building” to you? If God could prevent it and does not, what an asshole.

                    And please, referring to a book of fables that NOBODY can prove is the word of God, but certainly can prove is manipulated by man, is silly. There are dozens of versions of the bible, most of which are massively inconsistent with each other. KJV is just another, edited, fudged, and rewritten for a agenda, 1600 odd years after any “real” words of God could have been written, if they ever were.

                    • ***”What I (or anyone else) “want” God to do is irrelevant to the question.”****

                      No it is not irrelevant; it is illustrative of the fact that you desire a reality which can not exist.

                      You impugned God for letting evil exist. So what is your specific complaint?

                      You want a woirld in which all beings would be supernaturally prevented from doing any evil? Or a world in which a bolt of lightning would come down and strike someone who has done evil (Ooooppps! Then they could still do evil!). A world where there is no human responsibility or cause and effect for one’s actions, and yet no negative consequences for transgressing natural laws?

                      The desire for such a world may be a nice sentiment, but if you give it any thought, you’d see that it is no more feasible than a child’s fantasy of fairy princesses and magic.

                      Even if such could exist, it would be a reality in which the creator would be serving the created, and where sentient autonomous beings are relegated into being nothing more than automatons and Pavlovian dogs.

                      In short, the evil of which you speak is created by man, and tolerated by others who have delegated their own responsibilities.

                      God gave us a Libertarian world- but most people don’t like God nor liberty, so they created “the state” as a replacement for God- and now evil flourishes, but you blame God for that evil.

                      You are essentially arguing against Libertarianism (“Why doesn’t somebody do something?! Why are we allowed the freedom to do wrong?!”) and in favor of statism (“There aught to be a law! It shouldn’t be possible for anyone to do ____!!”).

                      That might not be your intent or understanding, but if you think about it, that is exactly the argument that you are making, irregardless of who or what you think the Creator is, or what constitutes His revelation.

                      Maybe you’ve been reading Harry Potter……

                    • Damn. Nice word salad.

                      I forgot logic, reason and comprehension were the first things the religious abandoned. Brevity too it seems.

                      Your convoluted conclusions are absolutely baffling and seem quite desperate in their efforts to NOT address what I said directly.

                    • “Word salad”? “Religion”?

                      I am positing purely realistic and logical arguments, appealing to the reality of physical existence and devoid of religious dogma.

                      YOU are the one lacking logic or even a clear statement of what you would propose that would offer some perfect justice in a temporal world full of imperfect people, and right the supposed wrongs which you attribute to whomever or whatever [is that too “religious” for you?] created this world and reality.

                      I rather think that you are being confronted with logic and reason to which you have no sound rebuttal, because it is your basic premise which is illogical and unreasonable; so instead of answering the simple questions which I posed earlier- you’d like to pretend that I am some religious zealot who is quoting Scripture and expecting you to accept such in blind faith- when clearly that is not what I am doing.

                      So let me say it another way: What practical realities would you accept, that would lead you to believe that the “who or what” that created life and the world is benevolent- while allowing for free-willed sentient beings- or should we dispense with such too, since they could rape children or fart or something?

                      Notice that you are the one here with no valid explanations or even attempts at such.

                    • Yes, Nunzio. Do you really think that we will be swayed by all of this “Thus saith the LORD” and constant quotation of bible verses?

                      Oh wait, you’re just making cogent rational points and asking relevant questions which transcend all religions and philosophies and deal with the extant realities.

                      Carry on!

                    • God is the law, the creator of all law which governs everything in existence. God is not a decider God just IS. If you want to send a probe to Jupiter you can’t just point to Jupiter and shoot the probe in that direction you must account for the intrinsic laws that govern the energy, trajectories, curvature of space time etc. You must master the governing laws that this entire reality that has been created. Just like there are laws that govern motion and space time there are also laws that govern the human perceptory system, neuronic electrical processing, polypeptide production and cellular response that generates human motor function -REAL LAW AS ESTABLISHED BY THE UNKOWN CREATOR GOD.

                      You guys are SO FAR away from comprehending what law even is that it definitely appears hopeless. You keep wanting GOD to DO something when God already created the entire framework of this existence and your ability to master this framework but ONLY if you have the will, desire, love and ACTION to do so.

                      Observing your total CONFUSION about God, law and your existence is why the ‘prophets’ could observe your confusion, others manipulation of you and derive what would actually happen. It is OBVIOUS to those who master the law that governs everything.

                    • Hi Nobody,

                      You state that “God is the law” but who is this critter, exactly? I don’t dismiss the possibility – even the probability – of a “mind” of some kind behind the curtain of nature (and nature’s laws) so to speak – but have yet to be convinced by anything I’ve read or heard that any of us have the least clue as to the nature of this “mind,” beyond the laws we can apprehend. Which may well be an elaboration of the laws of energy and matter and not “mind” at all.

                      I very much enjoy discussing what may be possible but am leery of anyone who claims to know since this appears to me purely a matter if belief and faith and conjecture; a fundamentally unknowable thing. Or at least, a thing which cannot be proved beyond sane discussion in the manner of 2+2=4.

                    • Mr. Nobody, for the sake of clarity, and to facilitate discussion, needs to clarify when he is speaking of God’s law vs. natural law, vs. man’s law.

                      Man’s law is illicit and imposed only by coercion or subterfuge (i.e. convincing people that they are morally obligated, somehow, to obey it).

                      Natural law is self-evident, and as such is a part of God’s law.

                      God’s revealed law, is by covenant, for those who desire to be citizens of God’s Kingdom and reap the blessings inherent with the keeping of that law.

                • God is law. Master it and remain free or be enslaved by those who do master it – the choice is yours and yours alone.

              • “Trying to restrain the Beast by it’s own laws, ”

                And who is the lawless? The Beast masters the law wields its power to enslave you. You don’t master the law and are enslaved by those who use THE law (how reality actually functions) to enslave you. Are they the lawless or are you? 99.9% of Americans know almost nothing about the law (not legal statutes but ACTUAL LAW), they ignore law, so forgive me if I presume that you are not in the tiny sliver of those who do not ignore the REAL law but from your comments it appears the assumption is correct.

                • Hi Nobody,

                  Men are often beastly in their conduct, no question – but whether there is a literal “beast” (i.e., a demon of some kind) is a religious speculation. I’d rather focus on beastly men!

                  Well, since I have to…

                  • I like this word law. If a nut falls from a tree, the ground will stop it falling. The nut isn’t blindly obeying or even willfully participating. The nut is, though, subject to this rule.

                    Is humanity different?

                    A bunch of ripe for the falling nuts. There doesn’t need to be a net between the tree and the ground. Unless, there is profit to be gained from collecting them.

                    You see, the natural process (if not disrupted) would yield nuts for everything and everyone. They’d reproduce themselves rapidly, and have the good health and skill to adapt to changes as needed. All while staying true to their specific nutty identity.

                    If that net is there, their very natural process becomes disrupted. All gathered together, they can’t perform their intended purpose. All collected together to serve a purpose outside their very nature. This purpose is not made clear to the nut.

                    Once trapped in the net with all the others, even the best nut can’t escape.

                    Law: nut falls to ground. Ground stops nut. Nut sprouts roots and makes more nuts. Law.

                    Against law. Net interferes. Collects all nuts. Nuts can’t do their job. Against law.

                    If nuts=people;
                    natural fall to earth=law;

                    Tell me, boys, what equals this unlawful net? You guessed it, sugar britches, the government. An entity that can’t be seen by the nut, but that interferes with the actual law that allows the nut to do its job, to thrive, to grow, and most importantly, be a good nut.

                    This example is kind of weak because the other nuts didn’t build the net. They never would have agreed to that.

                    People, though, are so bad at the law, they not only allowed, but agreed to let others build this net. Now we all have to writhe and struggle futilely. Against the actual law. Just try to get out. You’ll get your protective shell cracked by a protector of the net.. not a protector of your shell.

                    • Hi Anon,

                      I’m not disputing the existence of natural laws. That would be silly. But that is not the same as questioning whether man’s laws are legitimate; and whether there is a god/mind (whatever you’d like to call it) behind natural laws. Those questions aren’t silly.

                      Now, if you’re asserting (and if I am misapprehending, please correct me) that any of us are morally bound by man’s laws – by dint of their being “the law” – then I disagree. I also disagree with you that it is possible to not be bound by these laws as a legal matter by denying they bind you or do not apply to you – because the government (those who enforce these laws) very much disagree with us both!

                      As a practical/real-world matter, the law is whatever those who enforce it say it is. And we can argue with them till we’re blue in the face, all the way to jail.

                    • I know very little about any of this. I think I’m confused.

                      I think I got in the comment loop and maybe meant that one for a different group of comments. This site feature being less user friendly since the Chinese malware incident.

                      Law serves the government. Man obeys law. Man serves government.

                      I think I was attempting to illustrate how unnatural forced collectivism is. Man’s laws, if designed to actually protect and serve man, wouldn’t be so stifling. Natural laws, if broken, prevent man from fulfilling his purpose.

                      Most people would thrive better if allowed to follow the rules nature set. But we can’t. Man’s law has stripped us of so many freedoms and added so much unnecessary complexity. By now, thriving should be so easy for us that there should be a word for the next level. Basic survival having become the standard.

                      I need coffee. So much coffee.

                      Help me out, fellas..

                      Having a tough time getting words from my brain to the screen.

                    • Hi Anon,

                      I don’t think we disagree. I’m just trying to make the point that just because X is “the law,” it doesn’t necessarily follow that X is moral; indeed, “the law” may be profoundly immoral. Of course, that does not mean it won’t be enforced upon us; nor that we can immunize ourselves from enforcement by (as some claim) uttering magic words about who is a “person” or what “income” means, as defined by the law.

                    • Ok. I think I understand.

                      I definitely needed that simplified for some reason. Absolutely agree with that.

                      Who are these deciders? And when did we agree to let decisions be made on our behalf? I can’t and don’t believe that man is so bad at being man, that he must have every aspect of his life under such scrutiny. Everybody breaks under micromanagement. We all thrive when trusted to do what we’re here for.

                      I don’t think it used to be like this. I used to never fear law, it’s enforcers. I swear I remember a time when a regular person didn’t have to fear such dire consequences for being a regular person. Or am I dreaming?

                    • No worries, Anon!

                      The subject is both complex and simple. Most of us grow up with certain assumptions and many of us never question them. What is government? Are laws always the same as right? Can it be right to ignore the law? Etc.

                      One simple way of understanding all of this is to begin with an ancient idea that, absent evidence of harm caused to an actual human being – a victim – there can be no crime. It follows from this that no law has moral validity which prohibits conduct or punishes an action where no harm has been caused.

                      We are all subject to nature’s laws, of course.

                      But we are only morally obliged to follow man-made laws when those laws do no violate our right to be left alone unless we’ve caused harm to someone or their stuff (property).

                    • Crystal clear!

                      This notion should never have drifted so far from our species. Simple systems fall out of fashion somehow.

                      But why could humanity have cocked up such a simple, black and white, can be interpreted only one way concept?

                      I imagine a panel of super elite friends, that are probably watching us as some form of bizarre reality show. Making up the rules to their game and forcing us all to play. Like some bratty spoiled child who must have his way, else endure his violent temper tantrum. So you play to appease him, only the game doesn’t end. And the rules change with little warning. Should you retaliate, he assembles his band of other spoiled kids to take your things away. Result same for playing nice.

                      So, what is to be done?

                      Spoiled brats got smacked the shit out of in my clan. Until they played nice. They were outnumbered. They’re outnumbered still, metaphorically speaking. So when do we put a stop to it?

                    • ***”Law serves the government. Man obeys law. Man serves government.”*****

                      ^This is true- in this case, when speaking of man’s law.

                      Law is the externalized expression of it’s author’s will.

                      “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; ” -Apostle Paul

                    • ***”Who are these deciders? And when did we agree to let decisions be made on our behalf?”****

                      Exactly! This is why we are Libertarians/Anarchists!

                      Man does not have the right to rule other men. If we are all “created equal”, then what gives some the prerogative to decree what others do?

                      As long as we are not doing gratuitous violence to the persons or property of others, there is no one has any legitimate right to control our actions; and if we do commit violence to another, then that person, or those around him have the right to intervene- but the idea that certain men can be elevated to god-like status, and just invent laws according to their own pleasure and whim, which control us and our property, thus taking away the dominion which God has given to every man over their own lives and famblies and possessions, is probably the most evil concept that has ever been devised, and is responsible for much of the evil and death in this world.

  21. There is certainly a movement of rural areas to succeed from their urban control centers. Up-State NY has forever complained that they are controlled politically by NYC, same with Western MA. Now the same questions are coming from Eastern WA and Eastern OR people. Northern CA has been complaining for a while.
    VA’s latest swing to liberal control has rural VA now asking what the hell is going on.
    I really enjoyed the Governor of WV saying ‘join us, and you will be more free’.
    Whether or no anything can be accomplished remains to be seen. It will take the people to do it.

    A place I visit a lot, has what I call a constitutionalist state Rep who says ‘you get the government control you allow. And, you must get involved or you will lose control’.

    • I heard about the WVA thing. And the Eastern Oregon thing as well. It would take people doing a bit more than talking about it, but I believe it is a workable solution to a lot of it. Not everything, but a lot of it.

    • Hi Chris

      If I remember correctly Eric had a post about a person carrying a weapon being harassed by W. V. Cops.

      Even if the State next door is somewhat more gun friendly, what’s to prevent them from going down the same rabbit hole? All tyrannical and wannabee tyrannical governments will have massive gun control. The UK has gun and knife control which has not stopped the killing. It’s easy for corpgov to whip up hysteria and fear,,, look at the Corona Virus. People buying tons of toilet paper and food supplies for a disease that has a kill ratio of about the normal flu.

      And what sane intelligent person thinks weapons control is to keep them safe? We have stats that show that discrepancy but still corpgov pushes ahead,,, why?,,, because it feels unsafe.

      No,,,,,, voting and/or running to different States / Nations will not work short or long term.

      Freedom comes from the forceful will and blood of People,,, not a piece of paper or legislation.

      • I agree with you Ken. However, it seems most freedom problems seem to be coming from states that have a huge urban area that politically controls the rest of the rural parts of said states. Most coastal states. Rural people are getting sick of it.
        I disagree with you that it won’t work short term though. If you are older, say 50+, and are willing to move to say KS. For the most part, in rural states like KS, etc… the overall state population outnumbers their urban centers. 3M in KS, and only 150K in Topeka. This states rural population very much outnumbers it’s urban center. Obviously, you have to add half of Kansas city to add to that, but even total Kansas City is only 500K. So for the next say 30 years of your life, you could live in relative freedom compared to say NJ.
        Long term? I would put my hopes for my kids that if they chose to build their life in a rural state that life would be much better off for them long term.
        Just my 2 cents.
        I have spent considerable time in one of these rural states and it’s refreshing to me to see locals getting involved in things I wish people would.

        • Chris

          I think we’re going to see some movement by the federales on this issue soon, so it won’t be just a individual State issue. And it doesn’t matter which side of the same coin your political views are .

          In my State of Florida they have already confiscated over 2000 and they’re complaining it isn’t enough.

          “He also pledged support for legislative measures: Bolstering mental-health laws, ensuring the death penalty for hate crimes and mass murders and “red flag” laws.

          “We must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms and that, if they do, those firearms can be taken by rapid due process,” Trump said. “That is why I have called for red flag laws, also known as extreme risk protection orders.”

          So, it’ll be cheaper for Eric to stay where he is and hand over his weapons to our hero’s…

        • The problem is that nearly every state has at least one large urban center with the potential to turn the entire state politics blue. Just funnel enough immigrants into town, and everybody else is toast. And those immigrants just keep on coming.

          That’s what happened to Arizona. I moved here 20 years ago from a socialist hellhole because it was still a free state. Now we have a US senator who brags that she is a Prada socialist, a “Republican” governor who is pushing a pet red flag law as if it were his firstborn child, and don’t even get me started on John McCain.

          And as for the commenter who mentioned all the atrocities that have recently been laid at the feet of Arizona cops, guess what jurisdictions these cops patrol? That’s right, those big blue cities.

          Running is a great delaying action, but it won’t win this war.

          • Ain’t democracy grand? Everything is swell…until they outnumber you, forever.

            Ever since I became politically ‘woke’ not that many years ago, via Spooner and Larken Rose, the illogic of democracy becomes more and more stark.

            Government, representative or not, is truly the Most Dangerous Superstition.

            • During the 1700’s for a short period, after independence was obtained, part of the country (believe it was in the part of the country then called Kentucky if memory serves) was without government of any kind (anarchy by definition, “absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal”) during which every citizen enjoyed autonomy. From what I can find out about it, things went swimmingly. But, alas, happiness and self reliance cannot be tolerated by those seeking to rule others. That form of nongovernment met it’s demise at the hands of organized, weapons wielding, believers in oppression offering the vote.

              • It seems that any time a vacuum is created by the absence of coercion/oppression/organized crime (i.e. government)….anywhere that people are enjoying liberty and autonomy )anarchy), that that vacuum is soon filled by the violent psychopathic thugs who desire to rule their fellow man and take his stuff……

                Pretty much the theme of all human history. 🙁

    • Sounds a lot like a saying that was prevalent in Soviet Russia during the early years of the revolution: Life has become more gay (meaning, at that time, enjoyable).


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