I test-drive new cars each week in order to convey to you, the potential new car buyer, what it is like to drive the new cars I get to test-drive. I’d like to convey to you what it is like to live with an electric car, since most of you likely haven’t had any direct experience of the experience.
So as to warn you about what life will be like in the electrified future.
When I get an electric car to test drive, which is infrequently, it arrives via truck – which is why I don’t get sent electric cars to test drive very often.
A truck is necessary to ship the EV to me – because otherwise, the press fleet driver would have to stop at least once along the way for a lengthy recharge session – because it is some 240 miles from where the press fleet for my region is located in the Washington, DC area to my area in rural southwest Virginia.
Most electric cars available can’t quite make it that far – and the few that can will be unable to make it much farther once they’re delivered.
I’d have to plug the thing in, first.
And for hours, at the least – since my home, like almost all private homes cannot “fast” charge an electric car. You have probably not been told about this, notwithstanding the inconvenience of this. Most private homes have 100-200 amp service panels, which can accommodate a couple of doubled-up (240 volt) three-prong outlets as for electric stoves and such.
The “fastest” charging you’ll be doing on 240 volts from a 100-200 amp home service is 4-6 hours.
Which means you’ll be waiting at home at least that long before you can drive the thing again. In the meanwhile, I could have driven up to DC to pick up the EV – and had an hour or so to spare for sight-seeing.
Which is why the press fleets truck the things to me – since they’re not sending the EV to me to look at it. Or to wait for it. My job is to test drive it. This is hard to do when you cannot drive it.
When a non-electric car arrives at my place, it is ready to go. Fully fueled (EVs only partially charge when they are “fast” charged, which means you’ll be “fast” charging again, soon) because there’s a gas station five miles down the road. The driver stops there for the less than five minutes it takes to gas up the car to full before dropping it off at my place, ready to go – and taking off in the car he brought to my place the week before, to test drive. Which is also ready to go – even if I left it nearly empty. Because he can fill it to full in less than five minutes, five minutes down the road.
He swaps cars – and heads back to the press fleet depot in DC.
If it’s an electric car, they send the truck down to haul it back up to DC. The driver of the truck must load the EV, cinch it down and then he can head back up to DC – using, by the way, a great deal more fuel both ways since a rollback uses about as much of that as a pair of Hellcat Challengers. It also takes him about 20 minutes (twice, at my place and back at the press pool) to do what doesn’t have to be done at all with a non-electric press car.
Anyhow, they truck the EV to me so that it is at least ready to drive when it arrives.
Which won’t be the case if you buy an EV.
Which will never be fully charged when you arrive home, unless you just waited someplace else, just down the road, to recharge it. Do you enjoy hanging out at Sheets for 30-45 minutes before heading home?
Once home, you will need to remember to plug it in – to your 120V or 240V outlet outlet. It is a small thing, but it is another thing. No more just putting it in park and heading inside for supper and sofa.
Hopefully you have a garage, so you won’t have to do this in the rain – or snow. 
If you forget to plug it in, you may be staying home in the morning. Or waiting, again, at Sheets.
Plugging in is important for another reason, too. Unlike a non-electric car, an electric car burns power while it is sitting. The battery pack must always be kept within certain temperature parameters, to prevent it from being damaged by getting too hot – and to prevent it from getting so cold it can’t be recharged.
That takes energy – which means electricity.
Whatever range it had when you parked it the evening before will be less come the morning, if you forgot to plug it in. Especially if you left it outside, where it gets colder.
You do have garage space, don’t you? Hopefully, one detached from your home – in case the EV catches fire while it is charging. (I run a cord to outside, far away from my garage and my house.)
You will, of course, have to unplug it in the morning, too – another thing to do that you didn’t used to have to do. These small chores add up to time, over time. Kind of like the time you’ll be budgeting for recharging.
If you have two electric cars, you will need two 240V outlets close enough to where you park to for the cords – plural – to reach from outlet to car. Few homes have a pair of 240V outlets in the garage . .. you do have a garage, right? So you’ll need to hire an electrician to run the wiring.
He will probably expect you to pay him for this service.
If your home only has a 100 amp panel, you may discover you are close to capacity plugging in your stove, AC – and car – all at once. Time for an upgraded panel.
Because of all this waiting around, it is necessary to plan around.
I live about 35 miles from anything, so getting to where everything is – and back – entails a round trip of about 70 miles. In a lower-tier EV such as the Nissan Leaf (my review is here) this is about half the thing’s stated maximum range, which sounds like an adequate margin.
But it’s actually less than that – if I need to go anywhere else – since I cannot just go there, spur of the moment. I have to think about where (and when) I will recharge, if I run too low on charge. This is a thing none of us have ever had to think about much, before – because gas is everywhere and it doesn’t take much time to get it.
Have you ever given much thought to running the heater in the winter? It is something you will want to think about, before you buy into an EV. The same goes for the AC. They both use charge, which means less range the more you use them.
You will, in short, be planning your day around your car – as opposed to the car giving you the freedom to not have to think about planning for anything.
Isn’t it grand? Like being pushed to get Jabbed with a “vaccine” that is so effective you have to take another one . . . and then another one . . . and then wear a “mask,” too.
We’d be much better off not taking anything, at all.
. . .
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anon 1
Wood powered cars have advantages over gas, diesel or electric vehicles. The worst choice is electric vehicles. There is lots of free wood some places, you can drive around the world with a saw and an axe. When they cut off our gas or diesel we can use these.
Of course steam powered vehicles are even better, they can use many types of fuels.
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html
anon 1
Tesla Recalling Nearly 200,000 Vehicles In China Hours After Recalling 475,000 Vehicles In The U.S.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/tesla-recalling-nearly-200000-vehicles-china-hours-after-recalling-475000-vehicles-us
they should recall them because they are an incendiary bomb on wheels, too big a fire hazard to be sold. the new pinto x 100 (fire bomb). fire bugs might love them…….
Anyone considering an electric vehicle needs to spend and hour or two on the Internet searching for “LiPo Fire” and “Lipo Battery fire Box”.
You’ll find what amounts to little lithium batteries used to power small toy model cars/trucks/drones catching fire and what smart model enthusiasts do when charging them to prevent burning their houses down. I’ve built a little cinder block and tile house for mine which exists 10′ away from any flammable material in my concrete basement.
Now extrapolate the explosions you’ll see for a several hundred pound Lithium battery parked inside your garage.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WR-Rw0PLgpA
You’re welcome.
anon 1
The biggest problem with EV’s is the batteries in EV’s are very dangerous, a fire hazard:
Lithium-ion batteries have a tendency to overheat and can be damaged at high voltages leading to thermal runaway and combustion. like driving around sitting on top of a huge bomb, make sure you don’t hit anything or get hit while driving one of these abortions.
EV fires are very hard to put out the only way is with the application of huge amounts of water.
Tactically, this may mean using a master stream, 2½-inch or multiple 1¾-inch fire lines, to suppress and cool the fire. Vehicle fires don’t typically call for surround-and-drown tactics, but these are not typical vehicle fires. so you need multiple fire trucks to put out the fire, this is insanity, they should ban these things.
One example: the flames on the Tesla were extinguished, it reignited again. Firefighters began hosing it down with copious amounts of water, up to 200 gallons per minute, but “that did not extinguish the flames,” according to the NTSB. At approximately 9:13 p.m., nearly three hours after the first alarm was received, firefighters had to pour out more than 600 gallons of water per minute. In the end the agency used 20,000 gallons of water. these should bsa banned from the road…..
Then the fire still isn’t put out……..Batteries can be expected to reignite after being put out because they still have stored energy. 15 hours later it catches fire again…
“Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish”….. the vehicle must be parked under “quarantine” for 48 hours, so that no new fire can break out.
Batteries are difficult to extinguish, and they can burst into flames again several hours later –ATTENTION: in some cases, right up to a week later
……… and they allow people to buy these abortions.
– these things are so dangerous they shouldn’t be sold…..remember the leftist government says 24/7 safe and effective, all lies.
The greater the amount of energy the electric vehicle may contain, the greater the fire risk of electric vehicle fires.
So they want to increase the range but that means bigger batteries which are far more dangerous, tesla is the worst they have 2000 lb of batteries, a huge fire on wheels going somewhere to happen.
The big hidden problem:
they can’t increase the range because the huge batteries are too dangerous, and get more dangerous with increased size, capacity, so EV’s will never have ice vehicle range, so they are too dangerous and useless.
Tiny little electric vehicles with tiny batteries would have been safer, cheaper would have made more sense, these huge EV’s are exactly the wrong solution, but the government is stupid, corrupt, insane.
Here is the biggest problem nobody talks about……
31% of fire departments don’t train for electric vehicle fires. 50% of fire departments say they don’t have special protocols in place to handle electric vehicles after an accident. These EV’s shouldn’t be sold the fire departments can’t even put out the fires, these things endanger everyone.
Remember this while driving your EV:
Drive down the road in your EV, hit some debris, a high bump, a huge pothole (the cities don’t fix the roads anymore, so don’t buy an EV), a raised manhole cover or drive into the ditch, puncture the battery and the battery catches fire.
In addition to crashes, some of the earlier fires involving Teslas were reportedly caused by debris in the roadway puncturing and gouging the undercarriage of the lithium-ion battery pack.
The damaged battery pack exposed the lithium, causing an exothermal reaction and subsequent fire. This hazard was thought to have been solved with the installation of a titanium cover encasing the battery pack, giving the undercarriage more resistance to severe damage. looks like they don’t work too well, remember this while driving your EV.
Most electric vehicle fires are caused by the thermal runaway of a damaged battery. Thermal runaway is the rapid and extreme rise in temperature and when it initiates the same reaction in adjacent cells it is known as ‘thermal runaway propagation. When thermal runaway happens, it can produce smoke, fire and even explosions.
Fires while the electric vehicle is stationary (an EV can catch fire even while parked, don’t sleep in it), this can happen from:
Extreme temperatures, both extreme heat and cold
High humidity
Flooding
Internal cell failure
ATTENTION: Overcharging or problems with the charging station (the EV can catch fire), don’t charge it in your garage, what if something goes wrong while charging?
Is that why so many charging stations are out of order? the software shuts them down over any little issue because they can cause fires.
why do they even allow these on the road? the leftist government is pushing these because they are morons and insane,
Fires in gas powered vehicles is far easier to put out compared to an EV and doesn’t take 24 hours to put out. (it is very very difficult for a diesel powered vehicle to catch fire, they are by far the safest)
they soon will ban far safer gas powered vehicles and the best and the safest by far diesel powered vehicles, throw a match in diesel, it won’t even catch fire……..
After 10 years the battery in your EV is near dead, useless, the car is scrap now, no residual value: Lithium-ion batteries are subject to aging, losing capacity and fail frequently after a number of years.
A bigger worry is being cremated in the thing.
Electric car batteries are catching fire and that could be a big turnoff to buyers.
BMW initiated a recall in the United States of 10 different BMW and Mini plug-in hybrid models because of a risk of fire caused by debris that may have gotten into battery cells during manufacturing.
Then, in early October, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened an investigation into reports of apparently spontaneous battery fires in Chevrolet Bolt EVs.
A few days later, Hyundai announced that it was recalling 6,700 Kona Electric SUVs in the United States, among about 75,000 of that model to be recalled worldwide, after it had received numerous reports of vehicles catching fire while parked.
Tesla faced problems this last year after multiple highly publicized battery fires.
The leftist government is pushing these EV’s like crazy, all they say is safe and effective 24/7 like their mrna vaccine, same thing, pure lies. You are not allowed to know about the safety of vaccines or EV’s.
Container puts out inextinguishable fires in electric cars
https://cfpa-e.eu/container-puts-out-inextinguishable-fires-in-electric-cars/
My beef is with the climate change argument used to push the EVs, and hence the robbing of Peter to buy Paul and EV. My source of information on this is from 2 places. First, there’s Tony Heller on Rumble (because youtube censors the truth) and second from Patrick Moore, a bonafide ecologist.
First don’t the climate alarmists understand that co2 is plant food? If they were truly greenies, they would appreciate that the world is getting greener because of the slight increase in CO2 over the last century. And remember, the co2 is 4 parts in 10,000. Imagine 9 billiard tables full of mostly green and light blue balls, 1100 on each table. Now add 4 cue balls, and OMG, the change from 3 last century to now just 4 is destroying the planet?
Also, do the greenies know that the greenhouse effect is from the glass in a greenhouse and that growers can double their growth by using 1100 ppm (that would be 11 billiard balls out of 10,000 instead of just 4). They would likely use even more except they have to buy the CO2.
And then there’s where in the world is all the electricity going to come from? Today, and EV is a coal-guzzler, esp. in places like China. But if the greenies were truly against CO2, then why the demonization of the safest and cleanest form of power, nuclear. It’s really that these greenies want to reduce the world’s human population. And when they shut down fossil fuels, we’re back to 1800s again, because we can’t survive on just electricity, especially with only hydro (the greenies don’t like that either), and sun and wind.
I’m with George Carlin, who said he didn’t believe anything the government tells him, and it’s not the planet that’s in trouble, its the humans who are f….d up.
Hi ET,
Someone said – and I agree with him – that Covid hysteria and “climate change” hysteria are symptoms of the same sickness: Generalized anxiety/isolation/meaninglessness. These “crisis” focus the anxiety – provide a “reason” for it – and “meaning.” It’s the psychological mechanism being used to control desperate people.
That was the conclusion of one of the psychologists in that last video Eric. Far too many in the modern world have little personal meaning in their lives. That void is
filled and manipulated by these types of evil psych ops. The historical role of
religion has been replaced by the State and its Ministry of Truth (mass/social media). We see the results all around us.
Both organized religion and government are belief systems. Both have a long history of being used to control the general population. Religion is best
kept on the personal level. Beyond that, it tends to become a method of
control.
anon 1
Oil and Debt: Why Our Financial System Is Unsustainable
by charles hugh smith
How much energy, water and food will the “money” created out of thin air in the future buy?
Here it is: all debt is borrowed against future supplies of affordable hydrocarbons (oil, coal and natural gas). Since global economic activity is ultimately dependent on a continued abundance of affordable energy, it follows that all money borrowed against future income is actually being borrowed against future supplies of affordable energy.
Many people believe that alternative “green” energy will soon replace most or all hydrocarbon energy sources, but the chart below shows why this belief is not realistic: all the “renewable” energy sources are about 3% of all energy consumed, with hydropower providing another few percent.
There are unavoidable headwinds to this appealing fantasy:
1. All “renewable” energy is actually “replaceable” energy, per analyst Nate Hagens: every 15-25 years (or less) much or all of the alt-energy systems and structures have to be replaced, and little of the necessary mining, manufacturing and transport can be performed with the “renewable” electricity these sources generate. Virtually all the heavy lifting of these processes require hydrocarbons and especially oil.
2. Wind and solar “renewable” energy is intermittent and therefore requires changes in behavior (no clothes dryers or electric ovens used after dark, etc.) or battery storage on a scale that isn’t practical in terms of the materials required.
3. Batteries are also “replaceable” and don’t last very long. The percentage of lithium-ion batteries being recycled globally is near-zero, so all batteries end up as costly, toxic landfill.
4. Battery technologies are limited by the physics of energy storage and materials. Moving whiz-bang exotic technologies from the lab to global scales of production is non-trivial.
5. The material and energy resources required to build alt-energy sources that replace hydrocarbon energy and replace all the alt-energy which has broken down or reached the end of its life exceeds the affordable reserves of materials and energy available on the planet.
6. Externalized costs of alt-energy are not being included in the cost. Nobody’s adding the immense cost of the environmental damage caused by lithium mines to the price of the lithium batteries. Once the full external costs are included, the cost is no longer as affordable as promoters claim.
7. None of the so-called “green” “replaceable” energy has actually replaced hydrocarbons; all the alt-energy has done is increase total energy consumption. This is Jevons Paradox: every increase in efficiency or energy production only increases consumption.
Setting aside the impracticalities of replacing most or all hydrocarbons with “replaceable” energy, the real issue is all debt service / repayment is ultimately funded by future energy.
On the face of it, future income is used to pay back borrowed money, but all future income is nothing more than a claim on future energy.
“Money” without access to affordable energy is worthless.
Imagine being air-dropped into the Sahara desert with a backpack of gold and $100 bills. You’re wealthy in terms of “money” but if there’s no water, food and transport to buy with your money, you’ll die. The point is that “money” is only valuable if the essentials of life are available at affordable prices.
But what happens if inflation increases the cost of oil but wages continue stagnating? What happens to the economy if it takes one hour of labor to buy a gallon of gasoline instead of 7 minutes?
Economics claims that cheaper substitutes will appear to replace whatever is expensive, so cheap electricity will replace costly oil, or transport will switch to cheap natural gas, etc.
But these proposed transitions are not cost-free. The cost of replacing 100 million internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles is non-trivial, as is building the “replaceable” energy infrastructure needed to power all these vehicles.
The true costs of “replaceable” energy have been fudged by not counting external costs or replacement costs; the full lifecycle costs of “replaceable” energy are much higher than promoters are claiming.
There are supply constraints that are also not included. For example, all the plastic in the world is still derived from oil, not electricity. (Note that each electric vehicle contains hundreds of pounds of plastic.)
As I explained in a previous post, energy in any form is not magically pliable. Just as we can’t turn electricity into jet fuel, we can’t turn a barrel of oil into only diesel fuel. Coal can be turned into liquid fuel but the process is non-trivial.
All of which is to say that the cost of energy in hours of labor is likely to increase, possibly by more than the global economy can afford.
There may also be supply constraints, situations where the energy people want and need is not available in sufficient quantities to meet demand at any price.
Analyst Gail Tverberg has done an excellent job of explaining that it’s not just the availability of energy that matters, it’s the affordability of that energy to the bottom 90% of consumers. 2021: More troubles likely.
“Money” is nothing but a claim on future energy, because energy is the foundation of the global economy. Without energy, we’re all stranded in the desert and all our “money” is worthless because it can no longer buy what we need to live.
Central banks can print infinite amounts of currency but they can’t print energy, and so all central banks can do is add zeroes to the currency. They can’t make energy more affordable, or guarantee that a day’s labor will buy more than a fraction of the energy that labor can buy today.
The global financial system has played a game in which “money” is either printed or borrowed into existence, on the theory that energy will be more abundant and more affordable in the future. If this theory turns out to be incorrect, the “money” used in the future to pay back debts incurred today will have near-zero value.
The question is: how much energy, water and food will the “money” created out of thin air in the future buy?
If the lender can only buy a tiny sliver of the energy, water and food that the “money” could have bought at the time the “money” was borrowed, then it won’t really matter how many zeroes the “money” will have. What matters is how much purchasing power of essentials the “money” retains.
Borrowing trillions of dollars euros, yen and yuan every year expands the claims on future energy at a rate that far exceeds the actual expansion of energy in any form.
This has created an illusion that we can always create money out of thin air and it will magically hold its current purchasing power for ever greater amounts of energy, food and water.
co2 bs = insanity
Hello, Anonymous, thanks for you post. I remember taking a chemistry class years ago, and it seemed more like an environmental class than anything else. Being up north (“The Last Frontier”, the professor talked about how screwed we are when it comes to alternate sources of energy, especially during the Winter months. Solar? Um, not with three hours of daylight right now. Wind? Um, no wind in many areas, which is why said areas are always getting dinged by the beloved (cough, cough) EPA for bad air quality. The professor’s opinion (probably banned some 20 years later), was that we should drill for oil in ANWR, but to hell with the west coast and California, we should keep it for ourselves, due to such. Also, though, I have to wonder: At some point, will not even gold and silver not be worth anything, either? I know the dollar is going to crash at some point. The Federal Reserve cannot keep printing money like this (Q-E Infinity). As you point out, people are going to want real, tangible assets: Batteries that work for their flashlights. Fuel for their generators, food, etc. Although gold & silver might be a good hedge against inflation in the short-term, I cannot help but wonder if, in the long-run, it will be thrown on the streets as worthless? What are your thoughts?
anon 1
gold and silver are the hardest currencies……but there is a new opinion now…….bitcoin is the hardest currency.
fiat currency goes to zero value in 100 years.
gold and silver have always been considered the hardest currency (store of value), it is low tech so easier to trade with, but it has storage and transport issues..
gold and not so much even rarer silver can also lose value because of new found supplies,
bitcoin is a fixed amount, only a limited number will be produced, so difficult for it to lose value some people figure bitcoin is the hardest currency now. the problem is it is dependent on technology. it is the easiest way to move money around. bitcoin is considered digital gold.
bitcoin: one of the main purposes was to escape central bank printing.
if things get really bad, food, energy and water are more valuable then money, as in no offer, none for sale.
anon 1
It is impossible to replace ICV with EV’s because of this…………..global capacity for the materials for EV batteries can’t replace even 3% of fossil fuel vehicles. that is the whole point of getting rid of ICV’s, (green agenda haha, see they lied to you again) a few very rich will drive EV’s, gates will still drive his 959 Porsche, the surviving 500 million useless eaters will walk………
You will own nothing and you will be happy… or you will get the hose.
klaus Schwab: “We will own EVERYTHING and be extremely happy.”
The only cord my vehicles will have is one for the head bolt heater. Location, location, location does not just apply to buying real estate. Only nincompoops think one size fits all… I’m talking to you federal nannies.
This article is just more FUD. Don’t get me wrong – I’m a Car Guy. Love all kinds. Have worked on almost all of them. Engines fascinate me.
My first EV was a 14 Leaf. Great car. Yes, range was an issue for longer trips. But in a metro area (lived in Tempe, AZ), it was not a biggie. Just plug it in whenever you get home! Minor modification in a habit. Was never stranded once.
Eventually I put a large solar system on the house. Could then charge from the sunlight. I’m sure someone will bitch about getting free fuel from the sun!
Now have a 20 Bolt. Love it and the longer range is great as we now live in a small town in the S.C. midlands. Can go pretty much anywhere we need.
The extremely unlikely event of a fire does not worry me. ICE cars are many times more likely to catch fire. More FUD! Doubt me – research it! Too many people have nothing to do but bitch, complain and throw stones.
As to the charging – almost houses have 240 volt supply. And almost all have a 240v electric dryer, HVAC, water heater, range etc. Many times, a dryer 240v outlet is close to the garage / carport. Very simple to use that circuit for Level 2 charging. Charging overnight is a no-brainer.
If you travel 100- 200 miles most days, then plug in whenever you get home. Anybody that can’t do that likely can’t fill their own gas tank either!
A good accessory to buy is a combo 120v / 240v charger. It’s small and lightweight. Toss it in the back. Can be used on an 120v outlet for charging at 12 amps (1440w). OR on any 240v outlet (with adaptors), for charging at 16 amps (3840w). Also carry 25-40 foot extension cords, one for 120v 20 amps, and one for 240v 20 amps.
The one I use is a TurboCord by AV. No worry about being stranded. Besides, don’t you have towing on your car insurance or AAA membership? Have used mine many times for my ICE cars.
So, Stop with the FUD! If you like to go on long trips use an ICE car. Most all households have 2-4 cars. So don’t even rag on me about this! If have only one car and must drive long distances, then buy an ICE or get a hybrid – though I don’t recommend it the hybrid – too much complexity. And too short EV range to be truly useful.
You can also learn to slow down and enjoy LIFE. Why the rush? It’s not so much the destination as it is about the journey.
A wise person once said – You are as happy as you want to be. It’s your choice!
Hi D. Smith,
You write: “You can also learn to slow down and enjoy LIFE.”
Well, that’s fine. If you have that luxury. If retired. If you don’t need to get somewhere, quickly. If you don’t mind “slowing down.”
The crux of the matter is that EVs are being forced on us. And why is that necessary? It’s precisely because of all the problems with EVs referenced in the article. You spent appx. $35k for your Bolt – a subcompact-sized car with a maybe 250 mile range that’s as expensive as a well-equipped mid-sized sedan such as a Camry, for instance – that can travel 600 miles on a full tank and be refueled to full in less than five minutes, anywhere. That will last 15-20 years, probably, before it needs any major/expensive repairs – unlike an EV, which will need a new battery pack well before then – and which also requires expense mods to your house in order to live with it.
You could have bought a subcompact Nissan Versa or similar non-EV subcompact economy car for less than half the price of your Bolt. Yes, the Bolt is quicker. How is that any measure of more practical? As for more “economical” … well, is it really necessary to elaborate?
Many – probably most – private homes do not have a 240V outlet in the garage. Even if they do, it’s hours to recover any meaningful charge. As opposed to minutes, with a non-EV.
So much for “FUD.”
Facts, certainty . . .
I understand you like your EV – and that’s fine. I have no issue with people liking things, or buying what they like. The issue I’ve got is with the forced regression of personal mobility the EV represents.
As Klaus Schwab said, “You will own nothing and be happy”. Thier goal – eventually ALL private vehicles will be banned, unless you are part of the ruling elite. The rest of us will be renting a bicycle. I see the Chinese have trashed millions. May be a gold mine there, but I digress.
ICE or EV is NOT the issue. For now, you have a choice.
If our concern is about elites taking away our freedoms, then let’s focus on that. Not on our individual choice of a vehicle. Or it’s pros/cons.
Hi D. Smith –
Yes, indeed – and that is just the point I’ve been trying to make; viz – that the EV push is taking away our choices.
Have you had an ev in the heat or cold? What percentage of range can you expect hooning an ev with the AC maxed out? How many hours can I slug through a snowstorm with the heater keeping my family comfy? What tempatures can it hit before the range plummets or the battery freezes? Any wierd computer glitches in cold or hot weather? Why do I never see teslas speeding? Thanks. I drive forklifts so, I know that evs are great for all day low speed driving in a flat area thats between 40F and 100F and I know that plugging them isnt a big deal, an ev would be ideal for 90% of my driving and save lots of money. But can it handle the 10%?
Whatever the suitability of an EV to your motoring needs/wants, that should be entirely your FREE (market) decision. Furthermore, said market should not be biased by Government subsidies and/or tax incentives that unfairly promote one product over another.
temperatures are everything.. ! Over the weekend I pulled into a convenience store in Whislter B.C. A family inside, shivering, while their Tesla charged outside, in minus -17c (it is a ski resort after-all), from a standard 120v plug. We went nordic skiing, and came back that way 2.5 hours later… family still there, because it’s now warmed to -14c, and they have to drive back to Metro Vancouver, about 125km. Which is nothing, except if you’re in an electric car. You know, saving the planet, subsidized by the tax-payer, one sucker at a time. Cheers
You are correct. EVs are NOT good for everyone in every situation! Never said they were. I’m giving the reality as I have experienced it.
FUD about a product is only clickbait.
I am not a fan of Elon, quite the opposite. The only thing he did right is to bring the EV technology to the fore. Choices are good, don’t you think so?
EVs are not good for the environment in the long run. But very few things truly are. Don’t get me started on our useless recycling programs.
Want to look at wasted taxes? OMG where to start?
Hi D. Smith –
Saying “FUD” is not an argument. It is the sort of thing people say when they have no argument. This isn’t about “fear” – or “uncertainty.” It’s about facts. These include the fact that EVs are being forced onto the market (by regulations and “mandates”). The fact that these “mandates” (and also subsidies) are necessary – to shove people into EVs or to pay them off, to buy them – is proof that EVs cannot compete on the merits. The fact that EVs increase the cost of driving – and decrease the flexibility of driving.
If you have factual arguments in rebuttal, I’ll happily entertain them.
But please – stop it with the “FUD.”
Censorship:
There is no such thing as free speech, that is pretty funny.
The two main subjects that are censored right now are climate change (including EV’s) and viruses/diseases.
The leftists control all communications, only their narrative is allowed.
Use one word outside their narrative on climate change (including their lies about EV’s) and you will be mocked, banned, deplatformed, demonized. A climate nazi will jump out of the bushes and attack…….EV’s are wonderful haha…..
Use one word (or do or not anything) outside their narrative on viruses/diseases and you will be mocked, banned, deplatformed, demonized and soon jailed, you are a biosecurity terrorist. Banning speech on this narrative goes way back, it has been banned since 1933, say one word and a germ nazi will jump out of the bushes and attack…..
The infection theories were only established as a global dogma through the concrete policies and eugenics of the Third Reich. Before 1933, scientists dared to contradict this theory; after 1933, these critical scientists were silenced.” There is a good reason, it is the most profitable business in history, plus population control and controlling the useless eaters.
you are only allowed to talk about meaningless things like cat videos.
Eric, without government mandates and subsidies EV’s would be dead in the water. They are vastly too expensive for most people. They have limited use cases, and the hundreds of billions involved in their development would have been better spent on something that the market actually wants. But we are in late stage crony capitalism. Corruption is everywhere, and everyone is attempting to live at everyone else’s expense. Or so it seems some times.
EV’s “sustainable power”, Political Correctness, and Identity politics are just symptoms of the attack on the West. Those behind this seek nothing less than the total destruction of the West, its traditions, culture and people. Unless one is fond of eternally playing wack a mole, it would make more sense to target the source, rather than the symptoms.
Hi BJ,
I know – and it astounds me – especially as regards these EVs. Are people this stupid? Minimum cost – almost $30k (for the base Nissan Leaf) which gets you maybe 150 miles of travel range… as opposed to a $15k Versa that goes twice that far and which will likely last twice as long…
Gee, it’s almost as if you’re arguing points that nobody cares about. From where I’m sitting a Leaf or a Bolt are completely retarded cars and neither suits my lifestyle even if they were powered by magic unicorn farts.
So stop with the strawman arguments. Or just admit, you’re here to argue the points nobody cares about.
Lookup ICE cars catching on fire? Again, nobody said they don’t or can’t, after 56 years and too many cars to count — even cars that got hit on the road by idiots — none of them have caught fire. Certainly, not sitting at home unused.
And ICE cars that do catch fire, if you have a handy fire extinguisher, that will work fine. Hopefully you also have 10 tons of water handy and a pump trump in the “unlikely” event your cars catch fire overnight when you’re sleeping.
Lastly, “the journey”, is what I’m in a hurry to get to. Sitting at a “quick charge” station is not “the journey”, it’s “the wait to get back on the journey”.
So stop with the strawman arguments.
You obviously have you mind set in stone – good for you!
Why yes, yes I do. And thank you for the well wishes! I hope you’re doing well and have a great New Year.
Now, as Columbo would say, “just one more thing.” When you come onto a group and accuse people of “fear” (FUD), you come off sounding like an unhinged liberal. You may as well have came here and accused everybody that doesn’t like EVs of being electrophobic.
And that is certain to go over like a Led Zeppelin.
Cheers!
I assure you I’m not a leftist, liberal, demonrat, socialist!
FJB, Schwab, Gates, Soros, etal!
Not everyone that likes the idea of electric vehicles is a moronic leftist! Just because a person likes EVs does NOT mean we are requiring you to get one. Remember, I stated I love ICE cars.
The term FUD is my comment about the article’s author only focusing on the Fear – will it car catch on fire, Uncertainty – can I make it to my destination – Doubt, How can I charge it quickly enough?
Is that not the very definition of FUD? Or do I need to look it up in the Ministry Of Truth?
Now, I would be a leftist if I were to say “it’s racist”. Notice, I did NOT say that.
I’m about choices. This article made comments that are in fact, not entirely accurate. And/or very biased. How it that “accusing everyone of being electrophobic”? I did not accuse anyone. However, I’m being accused of a lot!
Am I not entitled to my own opinion based on my own experience and knowledge?
Am I not allowed freedom? Or is this a closed-minded forum?
Hi D,
Again – you characterize my factual observations regarding range anxiety, charging issues and so on as peddling “fear” and “uncertainty” (“FUD”) which is both insulting as well as wrong – on the facts.
The range/recharge (and cost) issues are real.
By all means, if spending $35k-plus on a subcompact that is twice as expensive as an IC subcompact that goes twice as far and takes a fraction of the time to be ready to go far, again, appeals to you then be my guest.
But very few people have the means – or the sire – to own such a vehicle.
Eric, EV’s are turning into a type of Holy Crusade. One is either a Member of the Crusade, or one of the Vile Heretics who want the entire world to be destroyed.
With very little ground in between them.
Personally, I find the entire Climate Change cult
to be alarmist and out right misleading. Not to mention some of their policies are neither practical, nor even physically possible. They have debased
science in the pursuit of their ideological agenda,
and have wasted trillions in their mad rush towards
a future that is very far from what their stated
goals are.
That having been said, I’m very interested in
the technology involved in EV’s. Super/Ultra
capacitors might be one way forward to deal
with some of the problems with current battery
technology. But those should be privately funded,
without government intervention or subsidy.
Eric, by the way. I’ve just found this on the WordPress engine site. It may be of use to you.
“Spacing and Line Break Errors in WordPress
Earlier, we talked about spacing and line break errors that might occur when you’re copying content over to WordPress from a third-party editor. These are fairly common, and are expected when migrating content between different apps and programs.
While you could head into the Text editor and delete any instances you find manually, there’s a faster method. Here are the steps you’ll need to take:
Click on the visual editor’s Toolbar Toggle button, to display additional formatting options.
Highlight all of your content (or at least the content with spacing and line break errors if you can spot them).
Click on the Clear Formatting button (which looks like an eraser).
This will remove rogue tags, and should also clear our any spacing and line break issues. However, it sometimes doesn’t detect every instance, so it’s worth taking another look within the Text editor to ensure that everything looks right.”
https://wpengine.com/resources/wordpress-formatting-issues/
anon 1
focusing on the Fear – will the car catch on fire, FUD…..do you work for musk? that is tesla’s response to any EV negative discussion.
musk has spent a lot of time and money on banning, demonizing, mocking any and all discussion of EV fires because it is a huge problem that could kill EV’s, this discussion is not allowed and has to be crushed, plus the lawsuits could bankrupt you. the new pinto but 10 x worse.
EV fires:
Enormous amounts of water are required: tactically, this may mean using a master stream, 2½-inch or multiple 1¾-inch fire lines, to suppress and cool the fire. Vehicle fires don’t typically call for surround-and-drown tactics, but these are not typical vehicle fires. so you need multiple fire trucks to put out the fire, this is insanity.
One example: the flames on the Tesla were extinguished, it reignited again. Firefighters began hosing it down with copious amounts of water, up to 200 gallons per minute, but “that did not extinguish the flames,” according to the NTSB. At approximately 9:13 p.m., nearly three hours after the first alarm was received, firefighters had to pour out more than 600 gallons of water per minute. In the end the agency used 20,000 gallons of water. these should be banned from the road…..
Then the fire still isn’t put out……..Batteries can be expected to reignite after being put out because they still have stored energy. 15 hours later it catches fire again…
“Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish”….. the vehicle must be parked under “quarantine” for 48 hours, so that no new fire can break out.
Batteries are difficult to extinguish, and they can burst into flames again several hours later –ATTENTION: in some cases, right up to a week later
……… and they allow people to buy these abortions.
Somehow your account doesn’t spell slow down and enjoy life, not to a guy who’s owned the same set of jumper cables since 1984.
I look at how many extra hours of your life it cost the average family as a gauge of slowing down and enjoying life, anything that increases that number does the opposite unless it makes up for it in convenience, your own account is enough to convince me it’s not terribly convenient to own one, I already know it’s not saving them money.
And I shudder to think what this will all eventually do to the used car market, if they do become mandatory, that’s when battery packs will end up costing far more than the used cars themselves are worth, further reducing our options when it comes to cheap transportation.
The real problem with electronic vehicles is that the gov, via the car maker, has total control over the vehicle. Post on a forum criticizing the forced depopulation measure known as conjob19 vaccine, and the gov can shut off your car, or better yet, direct that car to take you to the nearest police station. And the amount of driving you do can be rationed, along with where you can take the car. I will leave it to the dear readers to decide what the gov can do to you after these 2 items. The EV will be used in conjunction with the remotely controlled smart meter to modify your behaviour into what the controllers want. Like in Thomas the tank. Think the gov and corporation can’t do this? Look how many people have gotten the stab on the urging of these 2 groups. You know, the depopulation tool the elites have been planning for decades. I will not go into the further elitist tool of cashless society, digitally controlled by the banks and the govs.
anon 1
Electric cars are good for one thing: virtue signalling for leftists who imagine they are greener.
ICE cars are greener then EV’s so what’s with the virtue signalling = delusion.
EV’s pollute more than ICE cars while running and produce twice as much scrap at end of life because they last half as long, are scrapped sooner. Then there is the battery disposal problem, only 5% of the batteries are recycled.
EV’s are wasterfull, they weigh twice as much as an ice vehicle so use twice as much resources to build them. EV’s cost twice as much as an ICE vehicle = an unnecessary waste of money.
EV’s depreciate more rapidly then ice cars, depreciation is the biggest cost of ownership except in collectable cars, that should be the best reason not to buy EV’s
They are more inconvenient, because of long charging times, 20% of EV buyers who were the first to buy EV’s are switching back to ice cars because of that.
EV’s trap you in bed with the government: the only source of the huge voltage they require to recharge is only available from a government controlled utility, the access to which will be dependent on your social credit score….very soon..
What a snarky reply. You are obviously more well off than most people. How about….MANY people don’t live in a house. They live in apartments. Many people don’t have a garage or even a laundry room…..thus laundromats. Your argument that owning an EV is no big deal is FALSE. If you want one, fine. But the plan is to FORCE us all into one. There are five drivers living in my house. What, oh wise one, do you propose we do about that??????
Mel, you know the response from our Over Lords; Comply or die.
They really don’t care which it is. They have their Vision™ and they
have the support of the the enforcer class. What more do they need?
EV’s in their current state are an edge case. They work well for
some people. But for the vast majority, they are not a good choice.
They are far too expensive, limited and unreliable over the long term.
But our would be masters do not care. They are on a crusade to save
the world. Or so they deceive themselves. At its base, its the eternal
quest for power. They will not allow anything or anyone to get in their way.
They do not care about the consequences. They believe themselves to be above such things. Only time will tell if they are right.
Life with an EV: more like life with a stone round one’s neck.
Just before Christmas, I was walking around my complex in the cold and spotted a shiny, new, fancy vehicle, the like I had never seen before. It was sitting there all alone so I walked by to check it out. It was a Rivian…half car and half pick-up. I don’t think I had heard of this car before, but thought maybe it was an EV.
I checked it out online and sure enough it was. They are listed for around $70,000 give or take a few grand depending on the model and for the max battery pack, add another $10K for an “extra” 70-80 miles or so. I figured if I wanted one, it might cost around $85-90K for the bigger battery and taxes thrown in. Not to mention the higher insurance and an enormous new battery bill in maybe 7-10 years.
I’ll admit, it’s a spiffy looking thing. But for that money, I can buy likely buy at least 3-4 fairly nice used gas fueled vehicles over a 30-40 year span. Dollars to donuts, EV’s make little sense unless you have gobs of money to spend, have extra time to waste on these things, or are feeling righteous about saving the planet…well pretending to save a planet that doesn’t need saving.
Won’t much matter because we have the great rest coming by 2030 where we will own nothing, do nothing and be happy according to the WEF elitists. That is, for those of us who haven’t been offed by the mRNA injections.
High-end Teslas are not practical for ordinary people, but they make nice toys for the rich. I have ridden in a rich acquaintance’s Tesla Plaid, and it is one amazing piece of technology! 0-60 in 2 seconds without making a sound, independent power to each wheel, and an onboard computer to send the proper amount of power to each wheel to get out of a sideways skid, for example. Corners like a racecar. He only drives it around his hometown and surounding areas, so its 400 mile range is plenty. He plugs it in while it’s in the garage. But it was pricey, plus he had to spend some money to get the 220 volt hookup. Plus he has a gas-burning pickup truck.
Hi Doug,
in re: ” . . .he has a gas-burning pickup truck.” Of course. I also know a rich couple with a Tesla S. They have a Benz G-Class for when they don’t have time to wait – or need to go far, without waiting.
Speaking of which: Your friend’s “400 mile” Tesla may travel that far, if you don’t make use of the 2 seconds to 60 capability often. And don’t use the accessories much. And it’s not too cold outside…
Greetings from the “other” Doug…or Douglas from NorCal…and Merry ‘Effin Christmas and likewise New Year (if you get either reference, you’re probably getting old like me…).
Yes, EVs like the Teslas are indeed playthings of the affluent, both to have the latest “technie” toy and to virtue-signal. Which, as long as it’s a vehicle FREELY developed to bring to market, purchased by folks making a FREE MARKET decision, I have no issue with. But it’s anything BUT a “free market” product…oh no. Rather, these EVs are SUBSIDIZED by the “Gubmint” for…well, what the hell indeed are they SUPPOSED to accomplish? They’re by no means affordable, not only b/c the subsidies don’t promote cost-effective engineering decisions, but also b/c they’re as subject to the mandates for “saving da ‘Oith” and “S-A-A-A-A-F-T-E-E-E” as their fossil-fueled cousins. What’s more galling is the same self-righteous politicians that profess to have the interests of the “poor” and the “Children” at heart, have enacted tax legislation that make the tax credits more valuable to those that COULD likely afford these EV playthings on their own. Of course, most of these “wealthy wokesters” have no compunctions about, in effect, taking taxpayers funds best spent, if they couldn’t already have been left in the hands of the hard-working taxpayers, more on those for whom an expensive EV toy would be well out of their financial reach.
North Maine.
Minus 20F.
5:30 AM.
Headed to Boston (360 miles) today to fly out on a cheap flight to Vegas.
DANG!!
I forgot to plug in the engine heater on the 03 Jetta Wagon TDI.
Plugged in for 1 hour, that little diesel fired off with a cloud of gray smoke and took a minute or two before it cleared up.
Let run 15 minutes to warm up and launched down Interstate 95 at a high rate of speed (Somewhere around 80 MPH).
The tank is full of good winter blend fuel, and the little car’s normally 49 MPG drops to about 40 MPG withe lower energy with that blend, but thank goodness, no fuel problems.
5 hours later, 9 gallons of good old dirty diesel @ $3.50/gallon we arrive @BOS for $31.50.
Everything about this scenario puts an EV to shame.
Everything.
Hi Handy.
Indeed. And it explains a lot. About why VW was hammered so badly over the “cheating” thing, which was a purely bureaucratic affront to the regulatory apparat. The difference is “emissions” was trivial; had no meaningful effect on air quality. Not one “victim” of VW’s “cheating” was ever produced. But those TDI’s had to go – because a 50-plus MPG car one could buy for $22k that could travel 600 miles on a tank and which would last for 20-plus years would render any EV absurd in comparison.
anon 1
I had a 2000 VW Jetta diesel 5 spd., it was a great car. Get the stage 1 tune (higher ones available), I got the one by Malone tuning, it gives 25% more power and 20% better fuel economy.
It is 26 below zero right now outside my door. The battery power to drive the starter is reduced when the battery is cold. I removed the battery and have it inside to stay warm.
Have to clean the posts and the cables, general maintenance helps the battery stay strong. A weak battery is going to cause the vehicle’s engine to stall, no oomph in the electricity from the battery. Install a good battery, they don’t last forever. 12 volts with 650 cranking amps trumps the big important 75 kwh battery by a country mile. Harump!
A cold dead start is taxing on an engine, the oil is heated with one of those flat heating devices that attaches to the bottom of the oil pan.
An EV is going to need a warm battery to operate at optimal capacity. A cold battery can be dangerous. Why isn’t there a circuit breaker to disable the battery when there is a dead short? Or is it like solid rocket fuel, once it ignites, it burns until it’s gone.
26 below zero will have zero effect on the efficiency of gasoline to ignite inside a combustion chamber and a piston to compress the ignited fuel. Gets lots of power instantaneously without much worry.
That is what is going to sell.
With EVs, selling the sizzle means it combusts all on its own without any warning.
It ain’t funny. You’ll hate it when it happens to you.
Good one Eric.
Hi Eric –
Have you seen this video of a Finnish guy who had a lot of issues with his 2013 Tesla Model S? When the battery needed to be replaced at a cost of $22,000 he decided to call up his buddies who are explosive experts and fly in Elon Musk to take out his frustrations. Give it a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_9aVzf5fC4
Hi Lux,
Indeed I did! You may have missed this… https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2021/12/23/the-blowup/
I can’t see myself ever owning one but I do see a small niche for EV’s for an urban runabout, with regenerative braking, short runs here and there it might actually make sense in very limited situations. In a free market it would find its place. In a coerced market the whole concept is idiotic.
UK Inches Closer to Eliminating Private Car ownership:
https://autos.yahoo.com/autos/uk-inches-closer-eliminating-private-180000325.html
…says “Trudy”…
Life with a horse:
Buy horse and ride home. Horse will be tired once home. Will have to tie horse to a pole before and after using it if pasture isn’t available. Will also need a barn, detached from the home to provide room for recharging and keeping warm enough to work the next morning.
While it does take some time to recharge, horses don’t require nuclear, hydro, coal, or any other form of combustion to recharge. Their emissions are bio degradable. Horses live longer than battery packs. Horses are made by other horses, not mined by child slave labor.
Hey Mark,
I bought a pristine 2013 1st gen Volt almost 3 years ago. I traded in a beat 2012 Pious. List on the Volt was $6950.00 and I got $6,000.00 for the Pious. The Volt is a great car and it’s actually fun to drive, it has a normal, floor mounted shifter (just like old school automatics), L on the shifter activates regen and it feels just like downshifting a manual tranny. The torque makes it feel quicker than it really is and it handles well.
Since returning from a road trip (no need to plan around charging stations) I’ve driven 480 miles and used 1.6 gallons of gas. Plugging in at home is nearly effortless and is far more convenient than filling up at the station. The engine will kick on occasionally if you rarely exceed the range to keep the engine and fuel ok. It also kicks on in very cold weather for battery maintenance. It is likely that the battery will last far longer than pure EV’s because it cannot go into deep discharge and never needs fast charging (the main cause of battery degradation). To my knowledge, no Volt has spontaneously combusted either.
Anyway, I never thought I’d own an EV, but I love my Volt. It is by far the best car I’ve ever owned. But, I don’t plan to ever get rid of my 2002 Dakota.
Cheers,
Jeremy
anon 1
I prefer the BMW i3, their small electric car had a range extending engine same as the Volt.
https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/bmw-i3-electric-car-range-extended-195-miles/
anon 1
the engine in the i3 and the volt doesn’t charge the batteries, it is connected to a generator that powers the electric motor only.
anon 1
these are the only electric cars to buy, you can’t get stranded, if you run out of gas too, carry a gas can to the gas station, redundancy is important, pure electric is a nightmare.
Anon there is always the diesel powered tow truck to rescue your EV.
Hi Anon,
The engine in the Volt can charge the batteries. In “hold” mode, the ICE will generate electricity for the motor and enough to maintain whatever charge level existed when “hold” was activated. In “mountain” mode, the ICE will generate electricity for the motor and enough to bring the charge level to 45% of usable capacity, then hold it there. Also, unlike the BMW, the engine in the Volt is powerful enough to keep the car moving, at full capability, indefinitely (as long as there’s gas in the tank).
Cheers,
Jeremy
anon 1
the design must have changed from volt gen. 1, re: partial charge….
unlike the BMW, the engine in the Volt is powerful enough to keep the car moving,….that is not true……the BMW engine powering the generator that powers the electric motor makes the car drive normally until the gas is used up, it is a smaller engine then in the volt so more fuel efficient…win to the BMW…..
whatever……..the gas engines won’t “recharge” the batteries, as in an ice car to fully recharge the battery you have to put the battery on a battery charger to get 100% charge, good to do once a year…..
GM quality?…..i will take the BMW, probably less depreciation too……
Hi anon,
I assumed the small (31HP, I think) engine in the BMW was not powerful enough for full capability, cool that it is. But, it appears to have only 81 miles of “gas” powered range, which would make the car impractical for long road trips. My Volt will go 275 to 350 miles on a tank of gas.
I have a gen1 Volt and it will charge the batteries, but not to a full charge as you say.
The BMW is probably higher quality (and cool) but depreciation worked great for me buying used. I paid $950.00 out of pocket for a pristine Volt.
Cheers,
Jeremy
anon 1
BMW fuel economy 134 mpg, Volt fuel economy 118 mpg
BMW i3 range electricity only 97 miles, another reason to buy it compared to volt.
Volt range electricity only 53 miles (probably the the reason they quit making them) , will be using gas engine more often = higher cost to run.
Hi anon,
I’m not dissing on the BMW, I think it’s cool. But, for my needs it is significantly less practical than the Volt. I almost never exceed its EV only range in daily driving, so the extra range of the BMW is meaningless to me. However, the very limited gas only range of the BMW is meaningful to me as I do take long road trips a couple times a year.
Cheers,
Jeremy
anon 1
BMW i3 range electricity only 97 miles,
Volt range electricity only 53 miles
it appears they made the volt to run most of the time on gas, like a regular hybrid, the BMW looks to be more of an electric car most of the time.
both are better then pure EV…
Hi Anon,
“it appears they made the volt to run most of the time on gas, like a regular hybrid”
It was designed to be mostly an EV, but they didn’t market it well. The idea was to give it enough range for most daily driving needs, but also to operate (practically) the same way as an ICE for long distance trips, or daily trips that exceed the range.
I’ve been told that most Volt owners drive most of their miles in EV mode, showing that the limited EV range was adequate for most daily driving needs. Stupidly, GM claimed this was a reason to abandon the Volt in favor of the Bolt, which is absurd. If you only need 20 to 40 miles of range for daily driving needs, having 250 miles of range does not help you. The Bolt cannot take you on a cross country road trip without planning and a lot of downtime, the Volt can. So, the Bolt provides little practical advantage for daily driving needs and all of the disadvantages of an EV for distance travel.
Since my last fill up, I have driven 480 miles and used only 1.6 gallons of gas.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy,
With my retired driving habits, the Volt would be PERFECT for me! I seldom drive more than 15-20 miles in a day, and most of that is done going from one cat colony to another.
Hi Mark,
If I still lived in the ‘burbs – and my daily drive was less than 30 miles – I’d consider an EV . .. if it cost less than $10k. The problem is they all cost three times-plus that, which renders them absurd as economical devices. One can buy a sound used IC economy car for well under $10k and no EV will “save you money” relative to such a car. And it will cost you the hassle of plugging in (and out) and keeping constant track of the state of charge…
anon 1
BMW i3 is quicker then the volt, BMW i3 0 to 60 mph = 7.4 secs., volt 0 to 60 mph = 8.4 secs
BMW i3 has higher top speed, is 500 lb. lighter, more fun to drive.
BMW fuel economy 134 mpg, Volt fuel economy 106 mpg
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/auta_cmp2.php
Hi anon,
I think the BMW is cool, Volt is just better suited for me. A couple times a year I drive to Texas (660 miles each way), I only need to fill up once on the way. Seems like I would need to fill up 5 times with the BMW.
Cheers,
Jeremy
anon 1
the BMW i3 needs a bigger gas tank for sure, it has shorter total range, but small tank = 1.5 min. to fill, still better then an all electric car 1 to 4 hour wait charging, plus maybe another hour waiting for the charger, if you can find one in time.
The BMW range extender 600 cc engine is one of their jewel motor cycle engines, probably will out live the whole car.
I do like the volt and i3 more than an EV, redundancy…
Hey anon,
I think pure EV’s are absurd, especially “long range”, high performance EV’s. They are not “green”, and will become less so as more people adopt them because the current infrastructure is inadequate to support them. If, overnight, 10% of the cars became electric, the grid would collapse in many areas. They are not zero emission vehicles, they are remote emission vehicles (as you point out; I have been calling them REV’s for years). In order to provide anything near the long distance driving practicality of an ICE, massive changes to the infrastructure will be necessary. Additional generating capacity, a new, redundant nationwide network of charging stations and significant changes to residential and commercial infrastructure will all be required for a pure EV “future”. These costs, environmental and financial, are always left out of the analysis when done by greenies and other EV pushers.
That being said, I think a small, lightweight and inexpensive pure EV does make sense for many suburban driving needs and, if available in the US, would probably find a natural market.
If the BMW had a 300 mile or so gas only range, it would be great for me, and probably for many others. As it is, the short time required to fill up does not make up for the many extra stops I would need to make on a long distance trip compared to the Volt.
Cheers,
Jeremy
anon 1
I agree I don’t like EV’s for those reasons.. At least the volt and i3 don’t depreciate to zero like an EV after 10 years because the very very expensive battery is near dead, useless, just scrap the whole car it is worthless now. The i3 and volt can keep driving with partly worn out batteries using the gas engine till it breaks at a normal 200,000 miles.
anon 1
you got a good deal it looks like. A 2017 BMW i3 is around $15,000? A 2017 Volt is $17,000?
Hi anon,
Yes, I got a great deal, $6950 for the Volt minus $6000.00 for a beat Pious, only $950.00 out of pocket. Luckily, I bought it before Covid hysteria drove prices through the roof. However, I would never have bought one new, the fatal flaw of the Volt, and EV’s in general, is the absurd new price tag. I’m just glad that other people paid that and I go to take advantage of depreciation.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Thanks, Jeremy! I was seriously looking at a Volt, but a decent, low mileage Volt is $15K-$20K now…
anon 1
You can build your own electric car, you get a car from the junk yard or from any source that has a broken engine, you could get them for $100, then you get a used electric motor and a controller, plus maybe 12, 12 volt car batteries, you can do this for maybe $2000 or less, get the lightest car you can find for conversion, then you get more range, performance. Maybe a baja beetle, dune buggy, sandrail, or a small pickup so you can go offroad.
The range might be 60 miles? If you live within 10 to 15 miles from work (another bonus plug it in at work = free electricity….maybe), you could commute with it, or it might work for someone if they just drive around town, or door dash for one 4 hr. shift
I have seen them for sale for $3500.
Jay Leno says the best cars are the homemade cars.
Someone built one of these, they had solar panels on their roof, they said they got enough energy from the solar panels to offset the energy used charging the batteries. One of these setups with solar panels or a generator powered by a stream would be a good backup if (when) they cut us off gas for our cars.
Another problem with the new electric cars (except the ones in China that are small, light, cheap), are they are far too heavy (tesla 5000 lb, the batteries alone are 2000 lb.) and because of that use far too much energy, are difficult and expensive to recharge = another control mechanism, a huge waste of energy, (they should have built 1200 lb. electric cars). the whole thing is a cluster f….u ..kkkk
why pay $40,000 for an EV?
If I built my own battery EV I would live with the extra attention it takes because after all I built it myself on the cheap. While the already made BEVs don’t have as much hassle as a cheap home build they have too much hassle for what they cost.
I’ve noticed that all government and the various cartels do is add time sucks to my life. Where a free market still tries to make my life easier, except for most software.
anon 1
they are far too heavy (tesla 5000 lb, the batteries alone are 2000 lb.) and because of that use far too much energy, are very difficult and expensive to recharge
you need 1 million volts to recharge it, what a joke, looks like another control mechanism, you can’t get that type of voltage in the bush, only from a government controlled utility, so you are screwed….build you own EV for $2000……….
anon 1
this looks like the biggest problem with an EV……
you need 1 million volts to recharge it, what a joke, looks like another control mechanism, you can’t get that type of voltage in the bush, only from a government controlled utility, which they can turn off in 1 second….social credit score….. so you are screwed…
you can make your own fuel for a gas or diesel powered vehicle, a steam powered vehicle is even better just burn wood…..
If these “homebrew” EVs or even hybrids (I can well imagine a setup with a small two or three-cylinder diesel that exclusively powers a generator, which is also its starter motor, the circuitry being “dirt simple”, and also drives a motor/generator (available on decel or going downhill, which also becomes a braking assist) that powers the rear wheels. Get something like an old Chevy Chevette or Plymouth Cricket (which was a captive import for Mopar in the early 70s, being made, I believe, by SEAT in Spain) and have at it), the more “woke” state governments and likely the Feds will simply legislate them off the roads. Again, in the name of “savin’ da ‘Oith” (ala Bugs Bunny) or S-A-A-A-A-A-F-T-E-E-E-E.
Likewise even if you forego such a homebrew “Kluge” and just find an old Dodge Dart, Ford Falcon, or VW Beetle from the 60s that’s easily maintained with a modest complement of tools, a timing light, and a dwell/tach, outfits like California’s ironically-named CARB (California Air Resources Board) will, if they get wind that you’re “defiant”, use their bureaucratic nicompoopery against you. Naughty, naughty…
Eric,
While I understand your other gripes, I don’t get the one about plugging in when you come home, and unplugging when you leave. Isn’t that grasping at straws? How much time does that take, a few seconds? The thing about charging at home is that you NEVER have to refuel when driving locally! Sure, it takes only 5 minutes to refuel, but what about getting to the gas station? Even if I go to the closest one, that’s another 5-10 minutes in addition to refueling once I get there. SO! That’s 10-15 minutes at least once a week. That amount of time will allow you to plug and unplug your EV for months! Oh, and what about having to refuel on a bad weather day, say rainy, blustery, and 40s outside? Be honest: there are days that you’d rather not get out of the car to gas it up; I know that’s the case for me. So yeah, I get the other gripes, but plugging in and unplugging only takes a few seconds; that’s grasping at straws.
It is a bit of a stretch perhaps but does speak to how inflexible EVs are for a world and nation of normative individuals, each with desires and needs. For example the need to plug and unplug is not a problem for me living where half the year failing to do so means you won’t move your car again until the spring thaw. But I’m not fueling my truck with electricity. Rather its purpose is preventing the fluids and batteries from becoming solid.
Hi Mark,
Having to plug in – and out – every single damned day… is another one of those small little daily hassles that adds to the hassle of life. It is also symptomatic of the serial problems with EVs, which make life more of a hassle rather than less. They represent a regression. More expensive, shorter-lived, longer-“refueling” times… and now you have to think about that fat cord laying around in the garage. Two if you have more than one EV. And if you don’t have a garage, now you have to stand there in the cold/rain/snow plugging and unplugging and stowing the cord multiple times every day… as opposed to the once a week 5 minute fill-up.
And: You don’t generally have to make a special trip to gas up. You just stop on the way to wherever you’re headed when low or when you need a top-off, which can be done at your convenience practically anywhere and anytime in almost no time at all.
Unlike recharging an EV
So – no – I don’t think I’m grasping at straws!
Eric,
Point taken abour refueling when you want, as I normally do. Because I like a full tank, I normally refill when I get down to 3/4; I never let it go past 1/2 before refueling. I like to have extra, particularly during winter-just in case I get stuck and need to heat the car. I also like to have enough to evacuate, if necessary, and to be able to go 150-200 miles, since fuel availablilty may be non-existent. Plus, a full tank lessens condensation, cools the fuel pump, etc.
That said, sooner or later, I HAVE to get my butt to the gas station, and I need to refuel! Refueling takes time; it may not take that much, but it takes time nonetheless. It takes time to refuel, and it takes time to get to a location where one can refuel. Unless you have a business that’s fuel intensive (e.g. a funeral home), a refueling point won’t be on your property. That means going elsewhere to refuel; even if it’s close, you still have to go somewhere else to refuel. That too takes time-additional time besides that needed for refueling.
OTOH, plugging in and unplugging is easy. Whenever you’re not using the car, you’re charging it. When you pull in to the garage, you plug in; when you leave, you unplug. It only takes a few seconds each time. It takes no more time to plug or unplug than it does to toss something in the garbage, which is also in the garage. If your driving is mainly local, then you don’t have refuel at all! You don’t have to go anywhere, stop along the way, etc.; you just charge at home. I can see why EV owners would like that. I’d find it convenient.
As for the cable, riddle me this: if you’re going to the trouble of having a Level 2 charger installed in your garage, wouldn’t you also make sure that the cable doesn’t get in the way? Did you know that chargers have a space where you can hang the cable when it’s not in use? Wouldn’t you locate it so it’s most convenient and easy for you? I know I would.
Let me put it another way: you charge your phone and/or laptop, don’t you? Don’t you have to plug those in? If it’s no problem to plug those in, then why is it a problem to plug aand unplug the car-especially since it has a much bigger plug? SO! You’re still grasping for straws when it comes to plugging and unplugging a car. Again, I’d find that nice and convenient; I’d LOVE never having to go gas up again-especially on a nasty day when my tank is low!
As for your other points, I won’t dispute them; I can’t. Though the vast majority of my driving is local (mainly to feed homeless cats in my area), I occasionally like to go out of town; I like the flexibility of being able to go hundreds of miles, make a brief stop, then go hundreds more. I like not having to deal with range anxiety; one doesn’t have that with an ICEV.
EVs cost a hell of a lot more than an ICEV does; in fact, that’s one of the main things holding me back from getting one. While composing this, I ran the numbers of getting a Tesla 3; i figured out how much I’d get for my car, plus the extra $$ to pay the difference. Even if gas went to $8/gallon, it would take me NINE YEARS to recoup the $$$ I’d have to spend to acquire the car! Even if I got a Chevy Volt, which would be perfect for my lifestyle and driving habits, it would still take 3.5-4 years at $8/gallon to recoup the money I’d have to spend. If gas doesn’t go to $8/gallon, then the time to recoup my investment increases. From where I sit, it just makes more sense to use my Focus until it dies.
The other reservation I have is the tendency for Li-Ion batteries to catch fire on occasion. Even if it’s as Elon says; even if EV fires are blown out of proportion as he says; even if the odds are only 1/10,000 that it’ll happen to my EV; it TOTALLY SUCKS if you’re the 1/10,000! Even if the odds of a battery fire are low, the consequences (destruction of my house-at minimum) are so severe that I’d just as soon not take the risk. My garage is not only attached to my house; it’s integral to it. SO! If an EV catches fire in my garage, my house is going up-end of story. Until that problem is solved, I won’t be getting an EV; I won’t even think about it.
In closing, even though you have legitimate gripes about EV ownership, plugging in and unplugging isn’t one of them. Yes, range anxiety is a thing. Yes, recharge times away from home are a thing. And yes, safety is definitely a thing. However, plugging in and unplugging is easy peasy; it only takes a few seconds. It’s no different than taking a piece of trash from your car, and tossing it in to the garbage can. You’re still grasping at straws! With that, I need to go make my rounds, and check on the homeless cats before it gets dark…
I very often forget to plug things in to recharge them. For that reason most of my battery equipped things, shaver, laptop, etc that can run plugged in I use as corded devices. Batteries need to be managed and I just don’t need more batteries in my life. And then one craps out or I forgot to charge it. well now i’m SOL. My gas can runs out? Well it sucks that I forgot to get more gas but there’s a station in easy walking distance. (but I drive there since I don’t want to carry 5gal of gas back with me) I’m not stuck waiting for hours to use my lawn mower again. For the cordless drill, well that’s why I still must have a backup corded drill among other reasons. I even have air powered drills and have used those too as backups when the batteries are charging.
Sure maybe for the car there may someday be a fast charging station the same distance away. But it’s not a minor inconvenience because I forgot, it’s a 45 minute time suck.
Good comments, but let me just snark for a moment about your feeding homeless cats. Those critters destroy wildlife, especially birds, by the billion. Meadowlarks in my area are becoming scarce for several reasons, one of which is cats that prey on them (meadowlarks nest on the ground). Wild cats are a human-caused problem for nature; feeding them makes the problem even worse.
Thank you for your comments! Seems to be a general hate of EVs in this thread. Guess people gotta hate on something!
Hi D. Smith,
No! It’s not hate of EVs. It is hate of the forcing of them; of the obnoxious posturing regarding them.
Yeah….having our freedoms forcibly taken from us by our lessors really isn’t worth griping about. We should just watch Netflix and not worry about it. 🙄
Yeah….having our freedoms forcibly taken from us by our lessors really isn’t worth griping about. We should just watch Netflix and not worry about it. 🙄
Hi Eric,
You’ve been pointing out for a long time now the fundamental absurdity of electric cars, at least as they’re being designed now by companies like Tesla. And yet there are so many people who actually believe that Tesla style electric cars are the wave of the future, despite the lack of charging infrastructure, electrical generating capacity, unsuitability in hot and cold weather climates, impracticality for people without garages, etc.
At today’s closing price, Tesla has a market cap of 1.09 trillion dollars and trades at a P/E of 355. Has the world gone completely mad?
Yes
Hi Martin,
The reason for Tesla’s increase in value can be explained by two words – rent seeking.
The government, via regulations, has created a “market” for EVs. When people are presented with the choice – buy (or rent) an EV or walk – what choice will they have?
Do you recall the movie, Demolition Man? In the future portrayed, Taco Bell is the last – the only – fast food place left. And it has become a rare treat to eat there.
Ah, the 1993 film “Demolition Man”…unappreciated in its day, since a “cult classic”.
The depiction of Taco Bell as the lone survivor of the purported “Franchise Wars” is supposed to be a commentary on then recent crass commercialism, like the “Cola Wars” of the mid-1980s. More hype than reality, as likely the only “loser” of said beverage battles was Shasta Beverages. But we also got the famed Jolt Cola…just further proof that a free market will come up with innovative if not zany solutions. Yes, to the revived Officer John Spartan’s surprise, Taco Bell is actually a very haute cuisine, upscale restaurant, which only the haughty, wealthy denizens of San Angeles can dine at. Not only are there no ordinary Taco Bell outlets that we’d be familiar with, we see NONE of the “unwashed” going about their business in Dr. Cocateau’s paradise. We do see the “Scraps”, led by Edgar Friendly (Dennis Leary), that eke out their existence in the netherworld of San Angeles, making occasional forays to the surface for supplies, but they manage to get by, even affording a few “luxuries” such as a “hamburger” stand that serves cold, bottled beer and “burgers”, hot off the grill. Just don’t be picky about what meat the burger was ground from (“Este carne es de rata”).
Oh yeah! I’m glad you reminded me of that. I loved the thing about Taco Bell and that was when Sandra Bullock was smokin’ hot and before we had to hate Swazzenegger (IIRC).
But the best part about that movie does totally 100% relate to what’s going on today, not just with EVs, but with “medicine” and all things saaafety!
I had to look it up and thought I’d share the quote:
Edgar Friendly: That’s right. You see, according to Cocteau’s plan, I’m the enemy. Because I like to think, I like to read. I’m into freedom of speech, freedom of choice. I’m the kind of guy who would sit in the greasy spoon and think “Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the big rack of Barbecued spare ribs with the side order of gravy fries?” I WANT high cholesterol. I want to eat bacon, butter and buckets of cheese alright? I want to smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinatti in a non-smoking section. I wanna run around naked with green jell-o all over my body reading a Playboy magazine. Why? Because maybe I feel the need to okay pal? I’ve SEEN the future, you know what it is. It’s made by a 47 year-old virgin in gray pajamas soaking in a bubble bath, drinking a broccoli milkshake and thinking “I’m an Oscar-Meyer Wiener”. You wanna live on top, you gotta live Cocteau’s way. What he wants, when he wants, how he wants. Your other option: come down here, maybe starve to death.
IDK if this was at the time “Ahh-Nuld”, “Sly”, and Bruce Willis were doing their joint restaurant/club venture, but just as DM gave reference to a 61st Amendment (gee, somehow there was a breakthrough in getting Amendments cranked out, OTOH, it indicates that at least nominally the USA is still going in the DM ‘verse) that enables Schwarzenegger, otherwise not native-born, to be eligible to serve as POTUS. In Arnold’s 1993 movie, which, like DM, was overshadowed by the first installment of “Jurassic Park”, called “The Last Action Hero”, when his movie cop character takes the 12 y.o. kid that somehow is transported into the movie’s realm, he goes to a video rental store (remember them?), which is staffed by an inexplicably smoking hot clerk (Angie Everhart, hubba, hubba), which has a display showing STALLONE as the star of “Terminator 2”, which the cop sez is “his best picture yet”.
Put me back in the “Fridge”…
It is ironic, Douglas. For also in that movie, procreation is also only done in a lab. “…there is no other way”, according to Lenina Huxley (Sandra Bullock). Funny (or not-so-funny) how these COVID jabs may be making the younger generations sterile.
Hi Eric,
Very true! Without the rent seeking, Tesla would not exist as a company. As I recall you pointing out, Tesla loses money on every car it sells. All of its profits come from selling “carbon credits”, despite the fact that its cars generate plenty of CO2, just not at the tailpipe.
But despite this, its valuation is absurd. Below is a comparison to the other major car companies:
Ford —— P/E = 28.8
GM ——- P/E = 7.7
Toyota — P/E = 9.4
Tesla —– P/E = 354.7
For Tesla to reach the P/E of Ford, its earnings would have to increase by 12x. For it to reach the P/E of Toyota, its earning would have to increase by 38x! There is no way that this can ever happen, unless the government just grants billions of dollars in subsidies to Tesla forever. Tesla will most likely always lose money on actually selling cars.
I have to wonder, Eric: What does all this “plugging in” of ones electric vehicle do to your electric bill? Hell, mine has gone straight up, and even more since Joe and the Hoe were installed as our “dear leaders”. How much more would one pay if you had to plug in a vehicle? Also, for the one who had a cold battery? That is why we folks up north have battery blankets and oil pan heaters. In addition to the standard, engine block heaters, of course It beats the old days of having to remove the battery, and bring it into the house every night.
Hi Shadow,
As Palin used to say, you betcha! People think it’ll be “free” – or “low cost” – to charge an EV because it’s not as easy to see how much it costs… yet. When you plug in, there’s no equivalent of a gas pump readout showing you how much it’s costing. The car just charges. Magic! But keeping an EV hooked up to your house will probably turn out to be similar to running a high-draw appliance (or several) regularly – and that doesn’t factor in the certainty that utility costs will go up to pay for the necessary increase in capacity.
“Free” is always expensive.
Eric, you just have to “believe”. “Free” health care for everyone!
“Free” education and “Free” day care! Then the ultimate “Free”
UBI (Universal Basic Income). Not even counting all of the
“Free” money for corporate bail outs. All of this “Free” stuff
is how we ended up with an almost 30 Trillion dollar national
debt.
The sad part of this is, most of the people who are proposing
these things, are totally ignorant of even the most basic
principles of economics. They have never run a business.
They have never had to make payroll, and deal with
endless regulations and taxes. Their magical “thinking”
results in policies that have pretty much destroyed
small and medium sized businesses inside the Empire.
Then of course there are the Keynesian’s… I feel a rant
coming on, lets not go there.
That was interesting. Its a width problem. I used a return
and started a new line 5 characters from the border.
When it was processed it added spaces to the line and another return, which caused the saw tooth formatting.
Its consistent. Lets try letting it add its own break and start a new line. I’ve seen this in various editors in the past. Its usually an indication that something in the config file is corrupted or badly set. I’ve heard rumors about how old the wordpress engine is, but I’ve never really looked in to it.
Just…plug…in…to WHAT? Charging off standard household AC (110V, 60 Hz, single-phase) is woefully inefficient, so it doesn’t help with that “greenery”. And if more and more motorists have these contraptions, just imagine the PEAK DEMAND which will hit any grid about 6 pm local time, with EVs being hooked up to charge along with running appliances, turning on the AC, and so on that folks normally do once they get home. It’d help IF the charging ran off at least the 220 volt that powers your range, dryer, and HVAC, but in most cases, that’s already sized for those purposes and there’s little room in either the 220 side or overall, as you still have to power all the 110 volt outlets. It’d be a LOT more efficient to have a 480, 4-wire 3-phase connection, but that requires, for all practical purposes, a separate connection to the utility and breaker switch…Ka-CHING!
Of course, as electricity costs have greatly risen, many utilities are imposing peak demand pricing, so even if there’s capacity to service your “woke” ride, it’ll drive your electricity bill through the roof, save that you put the contraption on a timer to wait until peak demand is over…say, 10 pm to 6 am. Which, if you WANT to be idle, works out, but it IS a limitation.
It’s quite obvious that an EV, never mind the moral and political implications of having others subsidize your good feelings for what would, in practicality, be a secondary vehicle, intended for local use, is only practical for those with considerable means. The rest of us, which is MOST of us, have neither the means, or even if we have, the DESIRE to indulge in such frivolity. You’re welcome to attempt to SELL me on the supposed virtues of an EV, but whether I buy into it or not should be my CHOICE. And that’s the crux of it…my choice is being taken away in the name of a nefarious political and social agenda which I and likely most freedom-loving folks strenuously object it.
EV’s make great forklifts where exhaust emissions in a building is a problem maybe, golf carts, somebody who has a commute less than 30 miles one way, possibly.
I know to upgrade a panel from 100 to 200 amp is generally going to be $2000.00 to $4,000.00 in my area, not to mention the cost of rapid charging station and wiring for it. If you need to go to a 400 amp service… Well, too bad. 400 amp meter bases are currently on backorder 25-to 40 weeks nationwide. Many heavier commercial and industrial grade circuit breakers are on back order for 12-30 weeks. Can’t source the parts even IF you have the money!!
Current manufacturing and power grid capacities cannot always keep up with demand for new homes and retrofit work. There is no chance EV’s will be anything more than a niche/novelty car in the next ten years.
Yeah, upgrade to 200A, IF your local Arcs and Sparks (electric company) has the available capacity on your transformer and distribution grid. For lots of places with services installed in the 1960’s, say, the distro transformers and lines were sized for average loads of that day, with some margin, assuming 100A service at the residences. Now, almost double that average demand of the 1960’s with lots of folks plugging in EV’s to charge at ~1700 daily, and watch the breakers in the substation start doing a load shed fandango! I have a suspicion Arcs and Sparks will tell you “NO!” if they start seeing too many of your neighbors upgrading to 200A service…or, charge some rather large fee to upgrade the distribution side. Then, distribution substations, transmission lines, transmission substations…it never ends.
anon 1
maybe that is how they will finance upgrading the grid, get everyone in EV’s then boost power rates up 500% or more, no escape and road tax on top of that, no gas tax anymore…only the very rich will be driving, that was their goal, on foot you can’t get far/escape the matrix…..
I would love to upgrade my panel and have 240v in the garage! But for an electric home brewery not an EV, though it could be cross purposed. Right now, I brew on propane burners — takes about 4 – 5 hours for a 5 gal batch. Gotta keep the garage door open, no matter what’s going on outside, if I wanna stay alive. There’s actually a lot of positives for electric brewing over propane.
But the geniuses that built my house did the most counter-intuitive, least smart thing for expansion. They put the panel downstairs on the other side of the house from the garage.
So many walls, so many things, would have to be taken apart and repaired for that to happen. The cost is staggering even for the thing that I love to do for my hobby.
I wonder… and do you know? Can they put a second panel on a house?
Hi EM,
Yes, you can add a second panel – I’ve done it! I added two, actually – one for my shed and one for my “guest house.” Each 100 amp service, drawing from the main house feed. I have a 240 in the shed for running a welder or whatever. You can do all the grunt work yourself – if you’re willing. It’s not hard, technically – just physical work. I did everything but the actual final connecting/powering up, which I had an electrician check for me and ok before he turned the works on!
Hi Mike,
“Are there any net positives to EVs?”
Of course there are, just not for the type of EV’s being pushed. It is beyond absurd to push the idea that EV’s should replace ICE’s for all types of driving. EV’s are ideally suited for suburban (not urban) driving needs. Many suburban homes have a wired garage or a carport and suburban drivers rarely drive more than 30 – 40 miles a day. If relatively low range (60 miles or so), lightweight and inexpensive EV’s were available, they would be a net positive for many suburban drivers. Such vehicles do not need new wiring or extra capacity. They can be fully charged overnight on standard equipment. They also do not need a nationwide, redundant network of charging stations because nobody would use them for long trips.
In this environment, EV’s are more practical and require less planning than an ICE, it is really nice to simply plug in at home and never have to deal with filling up at a gas station. Unfortunately, long range and high performance EV’s are being pushed, which make no sense, other than as expensive toys for rich people. Such vehicles will never be as practical as ICE’s for long distance driving and provide no “benefit for the environment” (the ostensible reason for them).
The other type of EV that creates a “net positive” in many circumstances is a series hybrid design (like the Chevy Volt). This type provides the advantages of a low range EV for short daily driving needs and allows long distance driving without needing to plan a trip around available charging stations.
Cheers,
Jeremy
I could probably use one as a commuter, if I had 240 run out to the garage.
It would be a supplement to, not a replacement for, my conventional ICE sedan.
There is a practicality argument there. But, I could also get a small truck like a Tacoma or an S10. I wouldn’t need/use it nearly as often, but I might enjoy it more.
A thing Eric hasn’t addressed, at least to my knowledge. What if you accidently cut your finger off, and your EV isn’t ready to go? Call an ambulance? What if your wife goes into labor and your EV isn’t ready to go? Call an ambulance? And wait for the ambulance to make a round trip instead of a one way trip your ICV would need? I keep looking for an upside, and I can’t find one. Unless you count a Thunberg smile.
I’m not sure Saint Greta smiles, Mr. Kable.
Emergencies, yeah indeed. Also having a reliable means of transportation ready to go immediately upon evacuation notice is not a hypothetical if you live in a place prone to wildfires. It’s especially important to have a fully fueled vehicle, too, if you live some distance away and get detoured a great distance or caught in traffic due to fire lines.
What if your battery runs low and the car dies side of the road? The EV will absolutely, 100% need to be towed.
If you run out of gas, you can get a ride to the gas station, get a can of gas, and start the car. Or bum a gallon from someone nearby.
If you EV runs out on the side of the road, what are you going to do — knock on the nearest door and ask if you can borrow a 100-foot extension cord and plug into their house for four hours?
Eric sums up the fundamental problem of EVs (with even the best range):
“You will, in short, be planning your day around your car – as opposed to the car giving you the freedom to not have to think about planning for anything.”
I’m not interested in serving a car’s unreasonable needs when this problem was solved more than 80 years ago.
This is what is so stupifying about the whole EV fraud. Automobiles were were purpose-built to increase the efficiency, productivity, versatility, and accessibility of society. Now the opposite is in play. The automobile is intentionally being turned into a liability, financially, economically, and any other way imaginable. This is the result of minority rule for the “good” of the majority, which is essentially totalitarian bull shit.
The more fundamental “problem” is that the Government has insinuated itself into the decision of what types of vehicles are available to the public. In a truly free market, respected by a government that fears the people and respects the rule of law, the individual motorist makes that decision for himself, based on what he can buy…or build.
Article doesn’t consider a few things.
What about students living in dorms? Where is a concentration of 20,000+/- people living in dorms supposed to charge? My University was nearly 500 miles from home (Florida is a loooong state). Charge twice on the way so I won’t have to compete with those tens of thousands of other students?
Now consider Mom & Dad handing down their EV to son or daughter as they start their new life after graduation. How can anyone expect someone just starting out to have a place to charge?
EVs have a niche. I wouldn’t have minded having one near the end of my career. Anyone who wants one has my blessings. Just don’t ask me to help pay for it, or regulate me into buying one.
anon 1
the great reset……….. everybody left after the cull lives in little soviet style apartments in cities, if you own/rent a house you can charge an EV, maybe, if you live in an apartment forget it.
The overall agenda (21?) is that, IAW the desire of “urban planners” for several generations, to “get Americans OUT of their cars” and getting about via mass transit. These control freaks lament not only the perceived inefficiency of private vehicle ownership (never mind that one’s private finances dictate how “efficient” said mode of transportation is), but that people live WHERE they WANT…and, more important, usually well OUTSIDE the big cities, which the supposedly “cultural” advantages and “diversity” seem to, if anything, drive the PRODUCTIVE folks far AWAY.
The navigation systems in EVs will route you based on where a charging station is located. So even if there is a more direct route, it won’t take it.
I’ve been following EV development since the 1990s. Back then you bought a small Japanese pickup and loaded up the bed with lead acid telecom batteries. And you spent as much time shoring up the rear leaf springs as you did installing the electric motor. If you were lucky and drove with an egg under the throttle you got about 100 miles of range. 120 Volt house charging only. Nearly 30 years later and only a 150 mile improvement, even with purpose built vehicles and billions of dollars spent in research?
Be assured it’s a boondoggle. There have been advancements in battery technology, more for the market purposes of consumer electronics than EV development. But even THOSE “advances” have not been w/o “glitches”. Remember about 12 years ago and the infamous Samsung 7, about the same time that cell phone makers started the non-removal battery thing, that’d suddenly burst into flames? It got so bad that when flying Southwest, for example, you had to show the gate attendant your phone, as they would NOT allow this dodgy phone aboard, for OBVIOUS reason.
The technology being an electric car is actually rather simple, the most famed historical example being the Riker, which had a grand TWENTY-mile range and cost about twice what the closest gasoline-powered equivalent did (but less than the famed Stanley Steamer)…which was first sold…in 1898! There’s a reason electric cars fell out of favor with the motoring public, to be relegated to specialty vehicles like golf carts.
“. .. you do have a garage, right?”
Actually, no, I don’t. I live in an apartment. So no garage, and no accessible 240v outlet either.
To be honest, I’d never be caught dead in an EV or have one near my home. I’d be afraid of it bursting into flames. That’s why I always have an escape route planned whenever I pull up next to a Tesla at a stoplight.
anon 1
GM told the bolt owners not to charge them in a garage, because the bolts catch on fire, go up in flames, GM quality….haha
Eric, is there some reason the time-stamp on the comments is still on Eastern Daylight Slaving Time?
‘You do have garage space, don’t you?’ — eric
Erm, no. A garage wasn’t thought necessary for a weekend cabin when it was built.
And I’m sensitive about it:
Well he’s a friend of that eco-nut climate-change Biden fag
I bet you he’s even got a rainbow flag
Tacked up on the wall inside of his garage
And I jumped up and said Now just wait a minute Jim
You know he’s lyin’, I been livin’ here all of my life
I’m a faithful follower of brother John Birch
And I belong to the Rim Country Cowboy Church
And I ain’t even got a garage, you can call home and ask my wife!
— Charlie Daniels, Uneasy Rider
Electric cars are not “green”, in fact they are worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17xh_VRrnMU
The only fault I can find in this presentation is that they neglect to mention that a non-electric vehicle has between a 20-30 serviceable lifetime, whereas an electric vehicle will need a complete “fuel cell” replacement within 5-10 years, easily 1/3 of it’s cost new, and at a price greater than the original, for certain.
Taxpayer subsidy of the “green-energy” farce puts the “energy savings” so far into the red, it makes the 1980’s auto industry bailout look like chump change.
U.S. Railroads have abandoned 90% of their electric locomotive and infrastructure because it was no longer cost-effective decades ago, and they have the advantage of economy of large-scale, which no consumer will have, ever.
Railroads are an outstanding example of trying to eek out every efficiency and what was their solution? Hybrids. Diesel-electric of course but jumping straight from ICE to EV is missing a critical step and probably the one step that would benefit just about everyone.
I think only the most thick skulled person wants pollution (e.g. coal rollers, just stupid). No one wants to live with smog. But an EV only displaces emissions, does not eliminate it and in fact by moving the power creation introduces additional inefficiencies. Nevermind the many practical downsides. So why hybrids are not marketed heavily or even seem popular I’ll never understand. They solve just about every real problem except the made-up arbitrary MPG regulations. I know why the gubermint wants to jump straight to EV but I think the auto makers and consumers missed a big opportunity to drive the market if they/we would have pushed for them as an intermediate or parallel step to full EVs (which do maybe have a useful niche for city commuting).
If you’ve ever seen an old steam locomotive, one of the tricks they do in going from a dead stop is to, when they’ve stopped. leave some “slack” in the connections from the locomotive back through the railcars. The locomotive actually BACKS UP and slams into the car behind it, often the coal tender, and pushes some of the cars back, hence why you hear that banging and slamming. Then it pulls forward, and you’d hear further banging…that way, the locomotive is not pulling all the cars, which otherwise even the torque generated by the locomotive’s steam wouldn’t suffice. A diesel-electric can generate even greater peak torque at startup, so its need to perform that startup maneuver is lessen.
Trains are very useful for moving vast amounts of material (and troops) around the country. But they have to be properly designed, maintained and operated. Couple that with an effective use of trucks, and you have a very useful transport system. Some of the new train technology is much more effective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja8roL7mLgw&ab_channel=Science%26TechnologyUI
But that misses the point of limiting the mobility of the general population. You need to think like a tyrant to understand what their agenda is.
anon 1
ICE cars are greener than EV’s
EV pushers are lying to us……
EV’s pollute more
NOTE: The biggest pollutant emitted from new cars because they have so low emissions are from tires wearing out while driving, tire particles polluting the air.
ATTENTION: Electric cars weigh 50% more than gas powered cars so have higher tire wear, so EV’s pollute the air more.
ATTENTION: Only 5% of electric car batteries are recycled, a huge pollution problem.
In their entire life cycle including manufacturing, electric cars in total pollute more than gas powered cars.
Some scenarios / questions –
1) How long will the battery charge last while stuck in stop-n-go traffic?
a) with the heater or A/C running?
2) How many people trying to squeeze out a few extra miles from the battery during the morning commute and running out of juice will it take to reliably shut down traffic?
3) What happens when you suddenly have a few hundred cars out of power during rush hour traffic on a hot or cold day? It will be quite the tow truck bonanza and will likely take several hours to clear.
4) A sudden storm pops up – can you make the trip home when traffic drops to 10 MPH and you are running the defroster on high to keep the windshield clear? How long will the heater run when you slide off into the ditch and wreckers are not allowed on the roads?
5) Does the charging software prevent charging the battery once the ambient temperature gets below a certain point?
6) How much is the range decreased during extreme ambient temperatures such as above 100 F and below zero F?
7) Are you able to get the doors open when the battery short circuits due to a puncture in an accident or due to a defect?
8) How many power plants will we need to build to supply energy for the batteries? California and Texas can barely keep the lights on now as it is. Also, think about fuel for the power plants, timeline to permit and build new power plants; transmission lines to move the power to the charging system and upgrades to the distribution system in your neighborhood.
9) Are we just exporting our pollution? How much slave/child labor is used to obtain the raw materials and make the battery?
a) What is the true cost of the battery if we used USA requirements for i) employment and working conditions and ii) environmental / permitting?
Many more questions, but I think you get my drift.
Anon
The Texas power outage last February left nearly all EV owners completely stranded. One guy had a new Prius, which he NEVER put any gasoline in, trying to be “100% Green on Electricity”. He had to get his sister to take them both to their mother’s house that had a wood-stove, because she had enough brains to keep her new Prius full of gasoline, lol!
Texas, especially in the relatively “blue” cities of Dallas and Houston, is being evermore INFECTED by those woke morons.
anon 1
Lots of problems with EV’s
Worldwide 80% of electricity is produced by oil, gas and coal. electric cars aren’t zero emission they are remote emission.
The new gas powered cars run so clean they have very very low emissions, very close to zero like .00001% contaminants. The exhaust coming out of a modern diesel is cleaner then the air in a big city. ICE engines will be banned because they are not zero emission, .00001% contaminants is too high, this is leftist insanity.
EV’s pollute more
NOTE: The biggest pollutant emitted from new cars because they have so low emissions are from tires wearing out while driving, tire particles.
ATTENTION: Electric cars weigh 50% more than gas powered cars so have higher tire wear, so EV’s pollute more.
ATTENTION: Only 5% of electric car batteries are recycled, a huge pollution problem.
In their entire life cycle including manufacturing, electric cars in total pollute more than gas powered cars. Most electric cars are designed as performance cars so they use far more energy and resources than they should. (the government regulations don’t allow the manufacture of small light electric cars which would make more sense, china does).
The grid can’t handle large numbers of electric cars charging, if all cars are electric the grid capacity has to be increased 500%.
Open pit lithium mining for battery manufacture, often done with child slave labour, is as bad as tar sands mining.
Electric cars are expensive, they are only for the rich, but they are heavily subsidized by the government with taxpayer’s money, including taxes from the poor, the poor subsidizing the rich. the poor can walk. electric cars, toys for the rich.
NOTE: The first people to buy electric cars were the most sold on the idea, the biggest believers, 20% of them are switching back to ice powered cars because of the inconvenience factor, the charging time hassle.
Another problem EV shares with new ice powered vehicles: Electronic components have a limited life, even if you do not use them. It’s the nature of the P-N junction that forms a transistor.
So the new electric vehicles like the new computerized ice vehicles will have a limited lifespan, when these electronics fail the car will be scrap, too expensive to fix, more recycling and waste. Only buy cars with no computers.
A 1913 Bugatti type 22 is 108 years old and daily driven. A Tesla is scrap after 10 years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVl3cEkSSo0
But mechanical systems, like Jay Leno’s 1832 steam engine can last for centuries, get a steam powered car, they run on wood.
Steam powered cars have the same advantage as electric cars, instant torque.
As a follow-up to my comments above:
“Never Seen Anything Like It” – Drivers Trapped On Virginia Interstate Since Monday
Tyler Durden’s Photo
BY TYLER DURDEN
TUESDAY, JAN 04, 2022 – 10:32 AM
Hundreds of motorists have been stranded on Interstate 95 in northern Virginia for at least 15 hours after the region was hammered with a major snowstorm on Monday, according to local news WTOP.
Traffic on I-95 came to a standstill Monday between Ruther Glen, Virginia, in Caroline County and exit 152 in Dumfries, Prince William County, the Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT) said.
https://www.zerohedge.com/weather/never-seen-anything-it-drivers-trapped-virginia-interstate-monday
And this is how people die.
I am amazed at the utter lack of sense that the majority of Americans seem to suffer from.
I am from this area and know it well. Currently, the whole region is under a Mad Max scenario. I drove into work this morning only to find out there is no electricity. I gathered the files I needed and headed back home. No cops, snow plows, tow trucks, emergency vehicles, or utility crews to be seen. Not that they aren’t out there, there just isn’t enough of them. The roads (even major highways) are untreated. No one is coming to save anybody. People have to learn to accept this. Government isn’t your savior and they really don’t care if you are unprepared, sitting in a car with no food or water, and very little gas for 15 hours.
The news media has been playing a barrage of calls into their station requesting help and status updates from people stranded on 95, as well as, the influx of roads off of 95 such as 301, 17, and 3. They are trying to find someone to blame for their ineptitude. Nature strikes. We all have Google maps. One cannot check traffic or look outside and see 7” of snow on the ground?
I hate to sound so harsh, but until we realize that help is a privilege and not a right and we are responsible for our own survival we will continue to remain the dumbest animal on Earth.
Has Glen Youngkin been sworn in as Governor of VA yet?
Out here in the once-“Golden” State of Cali(porn)ia, it seems every time there’s a winter storm, CalTrans is overwhelmed to keep the roads open. I’ve had this happen to me two years ago, attempted to return home to NorCal after visiting my son, who then lived in the Las Vegas area, as not only “58” going through Tehachapi, but also the Grapevine (I-5) and “33” through Ojai were completely blocked off by snow. Possibly the busiest thoroughfares in the state, and the uber-high gasoline taxes I pay couldn’t keep them open.
The same thing happened to my daughter who recently attempted to come out from Utah while on holiday break to visit; she had to turn back after two frustrating days waiting on the roads to clear.
Hi Doug,
Nope, Governor Blackface is still in charge. Glenn doesn’t take the oath of office until the 15th. Virginia was unprepared for this and it shows. It isn’t unprecedented, because snow in January shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. It is called winter for a reason.
They do not have the man power or up to date equipment to be able to handle the influx of new roads and people. It will only get worse.
World wide it appears that governments are standing down with regard to what was once SOP to prepare for the weather. Then they blame the results on severe weather from ‘climate change’. Never mind they figured out handle this stuff properly decades and decades ago.
Hi Brent,
I agree with you, but government has always be incompetent so I never understood why many look at them as their keeper.
Was Virginia prepared for what happened? Hell no, but where is personal responsibility?
We would have no need for government if people would hold themselves accountable for their actions.
Does one really need Governor Northam or any other authority figure to tell them to stay off the roads in the midst of a snowstorm or to evacuate before a Cat 4 hurricane?
Seen this on the web: https://www.motorious.com/articles/features-3/uk-eliminating-car-ownership/
What will they do with our preexisting cars? I own collector cars I’ve spent a lot of money on. Pretty much garage queens but fun to light up the tires. I’m just waiting for electric plow trucks, heck my wood guy is using a truck from the seventies still. I get the feeling they hate us and want to control us. If I wasn’t sure before the last couple years have convinced me now.
As one guy was quoted on Zero Hedge saying:
I ain’t got no problem with Vlad Putin.
Never did my family no wrong.
He told us to hold onto our guns.
It’s people here who speak English and wear 3 piece suits I watch out for.
The same article is on Yahoo, of all places! David Knight was talking about it during his show this morning.
anon 1
I want to get rid of my ice cars, collector cars before you can’t drive them, they are banned, etc., aren’t worth anything, can’t be sold, it scares me a bit, have to get the selling timing right, same as trading stocks, options, any moron can buy, it is the selling timing that is all important.
anon 1
banning private car ownership, the end of collector cars (that should crash the market), very sad, who knew it would collapse so soon.
In just two years it went from the kings and queens in the suburbs talking 24/7 about their million dollar house and flying all over the world on vacations, (it was probably a setup), to agenda 2021……… 7 billion useless eaters standing in line (voluntarily…..so far), to get culled. it is like the thanksgiving turkey on thanksgiving, suddenly everything went horribly wrong.
anon 1
the kings and queens in the suburbs talking 24/7 about their million dollar house and flying all over the world on vacations
these are the morons who want everything to go back to the old normal like in 2019, so they want to get the government to force inject the extermination injection on everyone, wearing masks, lockdowns, pushing for mandates, testing, lining up for lethal injections, hunting down and killing the unvaxxed, so they can go back to 2019, but it won’t work…it is into the gas chamber…..(extermination injection) for you….
But didn’t they say to not charge in the garage because you’ll burn the house down? Heck, it wasn’t that long ago, somebody charged in the driveway… and burnt the house down!
Good luck putting that fire out! Hope people don’t burn down the neighbors’ house(s) too! Talk about a ride to the cleaners! Woof.
And OBTW, in my house that I built in 2014, due to whatever communist saaaafety regulations, they have these new-fangled breakers that trip if you look at ’em sideways.
But I’m sure (so sure) having somebody pull apart my freaking house — to the tune of probably $10K or more — to put 2 x 240V will be no worries! 🙄
This is really sounding like how everybody knew Joe Xiden’s “plan” to “shutdown the virus” was a complete crock of shit before it started. You know… the “conspiracy theorists”!
But just think of all the money you can save after you rewire your house, build an enclosed and sealed fire proof charging bunker and pay double the price for half the car. Oh, well maybe not…
Are there any net positives to EVs? I can’t think of any. Maybe it helps young men get laid by saying they drive a prius. Dunno.
No, woman is banging a guy for his Prius or his EV. If he owns a Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti, a 1963 Corvette, 1970 Chevelle….maybe. A practical woman sees the benefit of a man with a pick up truck.
You sound like MY kind of woman! Your husband is a lucky guy… 🙂
I tell him that every night, Mark. He just rolls his eyes. 🙂
Hi Mike,
My response to you should have been here.
“Are there any net positives to EVs?”
Of course there are, just not for the type of EV’s being pushed. It is beyond absurd to push the idea that EV’s should replace ICE’s for all types of driving. EV’s are ideally suited for suburban (not urban) driving needs. Many suburban homes have a wired garage or a carport and suburban drivers rarely drive more than 30 – 40 miles a day. If relatively low range (60 miles or so), lightweight and inexpensive EV’s were available, they would be a net positive for many suburban drivers. Such vehicles do not need new wiring or extra capacity. They can be fully charged overnight on standard equipment. They also do not need a nationwide, redundant network of charging stations because nobody would use them for long trips.
In this environment, EV’s are more practical and require less planning than an ICE, it is really nice to simply plug in at home and never have to deal with filling up at a gas station. Unfortunately, long range and high performance EV’s are being pushed, which make no sense, other than as expensive toys for rich people. Such vehicles will never be as practical as ICE’s for long distance driving and provide no “benefit for the environment” (the ostensible reason for them).
The other type of EV that creates a “net positive” in many circumstances is a series hybrid design (like the Chevy Volt). This type provides the advantages of a low range EV for short daily driving needs and allows long distance driving without needing to plan a trip around available charging stations.
Cheers,
Jeremy
I was thinking of trading my Focus in on a 2nd gen Volt, because the vast majority of my driving is local; I could run EV only for weeks or months, so I’d need fuel stabilizer in the gas.
That’s not why I didn’t pull the trigger though. No, that was due to more practical concerns: cost. Even if I got max value out of my car, I’d still need to come up with $10K-$15K to purchase a decent, low mileage, 2nd gen Volt. Well, depending on the cost of gas I could drive my Focus for 7+ years! It’ll be about 12 years old then. Even if gas went up to $8/gallon, I could still go 4-5 years for the money I’d have to spend to get the Volt. SO! I’ll just keep my Focus for now…