The Replacement for Displacement?

51
2130
Print Friendly, PDF & Email

The Hemi V8 engine may be history – or will soon be that, tragically – but Dodge hasn’t given up on engines just yet. 

A new engine – rather than another electric motor – is coming, soon. It’s not a V8 – because V8 engines are too big, all the time, to “qualify” for legality under the anti-engine regulatory regime of the Biden Thing. Which recently “mandated” that all engines must soon approach the 50 MPG mark – else be heavily fined. As well as “comply” with “emissions” regulations that “mandate” essentially zero emissions – at the tailpipe –  of the dread gas carbon dioxide. The one that amounts to less than .01 percent of the gasses that compose the Earth’s atmosphere. We are supposed to believe that a fraction of that fraction – “emitted” by gas-burning engines – constitutes an existential threat to the “climate.”

Kind of like the “virus” that was so threatening it didn’t kill 99.8 percent of the population. 

You might be tempted to think it’s all an excuse – rather than a reason. 

Dodge understand that there’s good reason to hang on to engines, even if they can’t be V8 engines, anymore. The management  understands that a Dodge like the Charger or Challenger without an engine is like a meatless steak dinner and that probably not many people are going to order one, from them. Dodge being the one brand left that still sells unapologetically anachronistic cars that aren’t from the the “healthy choices” menu. People want what Dodge is selling precisely because no one sells anything like what they’re selling.

The same goes for the kindred brands, Ram trucks and Jeeps; Chrysler, too. 

They are the anti-electric car brands. 

But can they survive without the big V8s that define them? We’re going to find that out, soon.

The  replacement for the Hemi series of V8 engines – in 5.7, 6.2 and 6.4 liter displacements – will be an in-line six of about half that displacement, heavily turbo-boosted to make up for it.

It is the “Hurricane” 3.0 liter engine, which is an entirely different kind of engine. The Hemis were pushrod-actuated, overhead valve engines with just one camshaft operating the works. This simple – and compact – layout, with fewer parts – defines the modern V8 engine, which has been around since the mid-1950s and for good reason.

The design works.

Lots of easy power – without much expense. The design made powerful V8s common because common people could afford them. And common people loved them. These engines were continuously improved over the decades such that they got to the point – in the case of the Dodge V8s – that they were generating more than 700 horsepower (in Hellcat supercharged form) and embarrassing “modern” engines with multiple overhead cams and four rather two valves per cylinder.

But, they weren’t as “efficient” – meaning, they used a bit more gas. The people who bought them obviously weren’t worried much about that – else they wouldn’t have so eagerly bought them. This is a point never addressed when the subject of “efficiency” comes up. The government – the busybodies who have the power of government – say that without their regulatory cattle-prodding, companies such as Dodge would just continue selling “gas hogs” with big V8s.

Well, so?

Is anyone being forced to buy these “hogs”? Are there not less “hoggy” alternatives available for those who want such? If Dodge can sell its “hogs,” does it not imply that people want them? If so what gives the busybodies the right to thwart the transaction?

Since these questions haven’t been raised, the answer is this new in-line six, which does have multiple overhead cams and four valves per cylinder. Plus two turbochargers.

These are the keys not just to horsepower but compliance.

The cams and valves increase airflow. The turbos increase effective displacement. A V8 inhales a certain amount of air; a turbocharged engine is force-fed air. Negative vs. positive pressure. But – in the case of the latter – only when under boost. When not, the engine inhales less air – and burns (and emits) less gas.

And that is the key to compliance, at least on paper. Which is all that matters in these latter days, when car companies are obliged to build cars for the government first and customers second.

Dodge – and everyone else – must meet various arbitrary government standards, as set forth in regulations. As defined by government testing. Thus, a 3.0 liter six will use (and emit) less gas on government fuel-efficiency tests because the smaller/boosted engine isn’t always under boost and can be programmed to deliver a better score on the tests than a big V8 that’s always the same displacement.

The on-paper differences – in terms of the scores – are really important to Dodge, et al. In terms of the survival of Dodge, et al. According to Dodge, the littler six “emits” 13-15 precent less gas – the dread gas, C02 – than the current Hemi V8 and will use less gas, too.

Whether these differences will matter to Dodge buyers remains to be seen.

Dodge hopes to salve their sorrow over the government-mandated retirement of the Hemi V8 by offering up more power than the Hemi V8 delivered. The standard output (SO) version will reportedly ante up “more than” 400 horsepower – and 450-plus ft.-lbs. of turbo-boosted torque. The high output (HO) version will kick that up to more than 500 horsepower and 475 ft.-lbs. of torque.

The current 5.7 liter Hemi V8 that’s available-for-now in various Dodge (and Ram and Jeep) models produces about 375 horsepower and 410 ft.-lbs. of torque. So – on paper – the new in-line six looks pretty good.

But will Dodge buyers buy it?

A possible mistake being made here is to equate power with desirability. A Tesla S is a very powerful car. But it doesn’t do much, emotionally, for people who like V8s – even if they are not as powerful. There are intangibles in play.

The sound, for instance.

Sixes have their own sound and some sound very good. But none sound like a V8. They can’t.

And – more fundamentally – a six isn’t an eight. No matter how powerful. It’s just not the same – and it may well be critical in that muscle cars – which is what Dodge sells, fundamentally, are defined by the big V8s under their hoods.

Without that, they are performance cars – a different thing. And – the hard truth – also the same things as so many other performance cars already out there. If you want that steak dinner, nothing else is going to satisfy you.

Even though it may – temporarily – satisfy the government.

“The Hurricane twin-turbo is a no-compromise engine that delivers better fuel economy and an important reduction in greenhouse gases without asking our customers to give up performance,” says Micky Bly, the head honcho of Propulsion Systems (whatever happened to engineering?)

We’ll soon see what settles out.

. . .

Got a question about cars, bikes or anything else? Click on the “ask Eric” link and send ’em in! Or email me at [email protected] if the @!** “ask Eric” button doesn’t work!

If you like what you’ve found here please consider supporting EPautos. 

We depend on you to keep the wheels turning! 

Our donate button is here.

 If you prefer not to use PayPal, our mailing address is:

EPautos
721 Hummingbird Lane SE
Copper Hill, VA 24079

PS: Get an EPautos magnet or sticker or coaster in return for a $20 or more one-time donation or a $10 or more monthly recurring donation. (Please be sure to tell us you want a magnet or sticker or coaster – and also, provide an address, so we know where to mail the thing!)

My eBook about car buying (new and used) is also available for your favorite price – free! Click here.  If that fails, email me at [email protected] and I will send you a copy directly!

        

Share Button

51 COMMENTS

  1. Well, so far no PCM (Peasant Car Motor = 4 cylinder with a turbo slapped on).

    Old Chrysler ad, “no substitute for cubic inches”

  2. Funny you included a picture of BillG. I came across this gem yesterday:

    https://nypost.com/2022/03/23/bill-gates-is-turning-43m-mansion-into-bachelor-pad-nuisance/

    Why would a NWO-connected, Build Back Better, All in on Climate Change oligarch like BillG buy and rennovate beach front property when he is fully aware that it will be inundated by the sea?

    The odd thing about these times is that it is getting easier and easier to do complex machine work in a small shop. Much like the “modifications” that some people do to rifles, I could see where someone will design a block that can use off the shelf pistons and other components and can be CNC’d in a basic mill. Pretty much the same idea of the Jag V-12 being two straight sixes joined at the hip. Heck, make it modular. How many cylinders do you want today?

    Oh maybe not tomorrow, but with hardware still reasonably cheap and the recent cry for onshoring manufacturing, I think automation will make it much cheaper. Heck, there’s a company selling (leasing actually) a frycook robot for fast food now. I had a fast food job when I started out… where will the robots be in 10 years?

      • Depends on who you’re reading. The Wall St types who think bigger is better think that everything will be the same as today, big central factories with massive production lines fed subassemblies from other big, centralized factories. Extremely long supply chains. Also extremely brittle, and as we’ve seen, so inflexible that a single microchip shortage can halt the entire company.

        But imagine if smart machine tools got smaller instead? Small enough that you could put a few of them in an abandoned department store sized building? Medium sized induction furnaces for casting, a few servers and gigabit Internet service in the office. The machines can do everything the ones scaled up to the GM factory can do, just a little slower. And there’s a library of free and paid Gerber files the owner/in-house designer can choose from to make his version of The Ultimate Engine. There’s no way he could get all the people needed at the skill level necessary to hand build engines. But he doesn’t need machinsts who are perfect, just good enough to set up the CNC mill and the 3D printer. After that it’s just assembly, something most mechanics can do. Except in this case if there’s a problem putting it together, the wrench can walk over to the designer and get an answer.

        https://www.haascnc.com/machines/horizontal-mills.html

        • I look across my cluttered office at the 3 progressively larger 3d printers and the 4 axis desktop machining center, and beam with pride. It is quite possible- and you don’t need to be a 160 IQ maniacal engineer to do it anymore. Though it helped 10+ years ago…

    • > six-bedroom, 3.5-bathroom
      That is part of the problem.
      In SoCal, you haven’t “”arrived” if your bathroom to bedroom ratio is less than one.
      Twelve bathroom, six bedroom would be more desirable.
      The more toilets, the better.
      Q: How do we know rich people are full of shit?
      A: You cannot walk 10 feet in one of their houses without stumbling over a toilet.

    • Morning, RK!

      Many people are so hypnotized that they cannot see . . . Stalin, for example. That he lived in luxury, had plenty to eat and a private armed limo… but he was a “propertyless” proletariat!

      And – similarly – people today cannot see what is before their eyes… that Gates is a full-of-shit hypocrite who doesn’t eat bugs and live in a house made of recycled tires, either.

  3. Choosing a straight 6 (not a V6) means Dodge is at least going to go down swinging.

    Used to be V8s and Inline 6s. Inline 6s have a natural low end torque that will at least by feel of the pants help to give the customer base what they want.

    • They’re also inherently balanced.

      You can build an inline 6 in any displacement (including the bigger-than-a-house diesels that power container ships) without a need for balance shafts.

      • I learned to drive in a 75 Dodge Dart with a 225 cubic inch slant 6 engine that I inherited from my great grandpa. The “leaning tower of power” it was called. LOL Not quite. But it was reliable and bulletproof. I drove the hell out of that car and it never failed me until I swapped that reliable 6 for a 360 V8, which leaked fluids out of every orifice.

        • The slant 6 was a truly unappreciated piece of art. As you said, most of them remained stock and solid running (and economical) for many thousands of miles. They also had some very advanced head and manifold design and could be made to make very impressive power. The lean to clear the hood allowed some really long and effective intake runners.

        • The Slant Six was canted 30 degrees to the passenger side in order to clear the low hood profile and keep the length of the original Valiant (later Plymouth Valiant, for a few years, it was its own make, never mind that De Soto was then on its way out) down. Another space-saving feature was that the water pump is offset, to the side of #1 cylinder, cutting down a few inches more on needed length. And yes, it facilitated the design of an intake manifold that has runners more equal in length; dealing with a problem that plagued inline engines all along of poor fuel/air mix distribution. Furthermore, that block was sturdy, and rather heavy, since Mopar wanted the same casting for both aluminum and iron versions. But ca. 1960, aluminum casting technology wasn’t quite “there” for a mass-production engine (as GM would find out a decade later with the ill-fated Vega engine), so, although some performance 225 aluminum blocks were produced, they disappeared all too soon. Slant Six guru Doug Dutra wrote this piece about the Slant Six Aluminum blocks:

          https://www.slantsix.org/articles/dutra-blocks/alm-block-sl6.htm

          The six was limited by having intake and exhausts on the same side, as was the default with American inline engines until about the mid-1970s. Since it was quite durable, virtually “bulletproof” (the mains had the same size as the “B” big-blocks), performance mods like increased compression, higher-lift cams, and a four-barrel carb, all featured in the early 1960’s “Scat Pak” version, didn’t faze it. However, akin to Pontiac killing their excellent OHC Six, Chrysler didn’t want a high-performance version of the Slant Six to kill off sales of more profitable and simpler small-block V8s.

          Apparently the design basis for this Hurricane engine is a re-birth of the Slant Six, at least in concept, though I doubt anyone’s gonna be doing a valve adjustment with the valve cover off and engine IDLING, with either a drip pan or on the street, as old-timers who fiddled with a few examples of a “Leaning Tower of Power” dropped into a Dodge Dart or a D100 pickup recall.

  4. I LOVE V8’s…I dont care if a 4-6 or electric is quicker…

    Back in 1993 I had a 1974 Dodge Charger with a 318 2bbl with glass pack duel exhaust!! I couldn’t beat my buddies brothers 1987 Mazda RX-7 turbo those ran 14.5 in the 1/4 but my car sounded better and after a hard day of school and work coming home at 11pm the sound relaxed me..Plus people looked at my car when I took of normally,just driving in traffic/cruising..Not so much with the Mazda, even revved people laughed at the sewing machine sound,albeit some like it and I prefer that to electric cars!

    That’s the thing for a lot of people the V8 sound is soothing and relaxing..I drive a Tesla but it did nothing for me quick yes but boring,its a boring quick…No sounds,no feel of the engine nothing! Its like sex with 50 condoms on and you dont feel anything!!

    I own a 5.7 Hemi Challenger today and it is quick 4.8 0-60 and mid to low 13’s in the 1/4 mile I know the 392 Hemi and Hellcats destroy my car probably the same margin the Turbo RX7 did to my 2.76 rear end 318 tiny 2bbl carb on my 74 Charger base model..But the V8 sounds awesome with active exhaust and it suits me fine..I dont care who or what is quicker,my car sounds awesome and it relaxes me..Something a 4,6 or electric cant do..

    People who love electric cars cant figure out why the engine and sound of a V8 is important because they were never car people..They all say huh..you never hear a car anyways because the music is always on..SMH!!!

  5. One question on my mind, is will the future Chrysler police interceptors also abandon their V8s? If not, I’d just buy a used one when they come up at auction

    • They’ll get some military contractor like Northrop Grumman to build a police vehicle. It will cost 10X more than the Chargers the state patrol uses today, get half the fuel economy and probably have some simple design flaw that will keep a third of them in the shop all the time.

  6. …The dread gas carbon dioxide. The one that amounts to less than .01 percent of the gasses that compose the Earth’s atmosphere.”

    Correction here: The atmospheric CO2 concentration is well above 400 ppm, now, which is to say 0.04%.

    So, you know, you should be worried.

    Regarding the pictured engines: Jesus. What clusters. Hell to repair, I’m sure. Makes my truck’s 350 look like a mechanic’s Heaven on Earth.

    Lastly and most importantly: There should be some political impetus to address and reverse all of these vehicular regulations, from “saaaaaafety” to “mandatory” MPGs. The consumer can decide these things.

    But, guess what. There is NONE. Never mentioned.

    For example, ALL of the current crop of politicians here in Az are only concerned with one thing, and that is the Border. “Build the Wall!”. “Drugs and illegals are streaming in and must be stopped!”. That is ALL I see being addressed and sold. You can fix the illegal drug problem by making all drugs OTC. Most people won’t be choosing fentanyl, should that be the case. Perhaps one could obtain some ivermectin if desired, but I digress.

    I see very little effort being put into making sure the COVID “emergency” dictates can never be put into place again, which should be the very first issue being addressed. Just more pro-police-state rhetoric.

    • Toilets.
      Dishwashers.
      Washing machines.
      Furnaces.
      Light bulbs.
      Cars.
      Lawn mowers.
      House paint.
      Brake cleaner.
      Air conditioners.

      Just a few of the everyday items that have been crapified (and also more expensive) by the iron fist of government.

      Enough is enough, already. They went too far decades ago.

      • Degreasers. I got a can of 30 year old brush on Gunk at an auction a few years ago. It works so much better than the modern citrus based crap that it cannot be believed!

        And dont even get me started on chrome plating…

  7. So Dodge is the gonzo of auto manufacturers?

    “Gonzo, meaning “last man standing” in South Boston Irish slang, was first used by editor of The Boston Globe Bill Cardoso in 1970, to describe the satirical social commentary of Hunter S. Thompson.”

    gonzo

    Hunter couldn’t believe Nixon was actually going to win the election. Nixon was a drunk worse than an some drunken Mick. lol

    Ever see an Irishman leave the bar? Neither have I. A joke older than the hills.

    If you haven’t ever seen a crew from a native tribe drink whiskey by the gallon, you’re in for a treat. They’re a riot more so than the double ham-fisted drunken Irish.

    French fur traders got along well with Chippewa indian maidens. The Métis, Burton Cummings is one, can display plenty of musical talent.

    Nimble fingered Chippewa women can do jewelers work with ease.

    Got to have decent components for the MIC.

    Chrysler will continue to manufacture military vehicles sunup to sundown.

    How Jeep came into existence.

    It’s always beer time.

  8. The answer is always displacement.

    Right now the regime has displaced the V8.

    Hot air would have been greatly preferred.

    What will be displaced after that?

  9. Eric, you said it best “on paper”, “for the test” Sounds familiar what our schools are doing to our youth.
    The truth most likely for me is I will be ‘in the boost’ all the time and also most likely get worse mpg that my current v8 NA. sad times.
    Just did a 5hr round trip with 3 bikes and 3 adults in my Ram, it was working semi-hard all day, and it (and me) enjoyed it. But the unfortunate truth is the little double blown 3.0 is going the have to work way harder to do what we just did, with the little turbo’s screaming their ass off to move 7000 lbs. Still better than an EV though. I probably still would be sitting somewhere charging.

    • Hi Chris,

      Yup. This has been my experience with every turbocharged vehicle (diesels excepted) I’ve driven over the past 20 years. If you drive as if you had a Faberge egg under the accelerator then it is possible to get the advertised mileage. But put your foot down – and wick up the boost – and these things routinely slurp gas with the abandon of Dean Martin at an open bar…

      I suspect this little six is going to lead a relatively short life if used in Ram trucks, too. Boosted to the max, struggling to deliver the power a V8 could with much less stress. It might be okay in a car, though…

      • makes sense that they now want 1500’s to be throw away too (not dodge’s fault), but what about the 2500’s and up. Won’t the V8’s have to remain for people that literally work these things hard every day? I think all 3 have relatively new V8’s for that category?

        • Makes me glad I decided to move up to 2500 for my next truck.

          I don’t want to think of the hassle of driving this engine pulling a camper around.

          Now the question is will there still be good engines for them in 10 years?

      • True on that

        Owned 4 Turbo 4bangers (225 TT, 07 A4, ’16 Ecoboost Mustang, and you’ll kill me, but ’21 Bronco), and never really got good mileage as I drive like I enjoy driving rather than being all lackadaisical and never engage 6th in them all (Minus the Mustang, but the only automatic turbo I owned).

        To me, turbos are more for easy power; intercooler/downpipe/cai/spark plugs/tune and you’re making much more power than a comparable NA motor, unless its something purposely undertuned waiting for mods. Turbos were always the tuner cars; the Evos, Sti’s, Skylines, Supras, GTI’s, etc.., so seeing them now used for “efficiency” is a sad joke.

        Hopefully there are options in the future to strip away the computers of the modern cars and also engine swaps to offset the forced turbo craze.

        • Hi Zane,

          My ’76 Trans-Am’s 455 has 7.6:1 CR. Seriously. It was the ’70s! I could probably get 30 easy horses just by swapping the heads I have for some with smaller chambers to get say 9.5:1 or so . . . or, I could add a turbo. But – too much PITAS and expense. The heads are bolt-ons; done in an afternoon.

          I’d do it tomorrow if I had the money!

          • Whats better than headers?

            My old ram had shorties, basically full exhaust, cai, tb, all it needed was a tune at that point to utilize all the ungained potential

            Not everything needs turbos, would love to see if a Cyclone from an ‘11-17 Mustang could fit in my engine bay, trade boost for durability/reliability (those 3.7’s will last for a long time, or LS when the swap kits available.

            Lots you can do to her, just a matter of money and time. You mod your truck at all btw?

            • Hi Zane,

              One of the many cool things about old Pontiacs is that you can use factory cast iron headers that eliminate the leaking/fitment issues with tube headers. These cast iron jobs – the were factory installed on HO and SD V8s – flow nearly as well as tube headers and are much tougher.

              On the truck: Nothing yet. But the exhaust is about to fall off and I am considering a header, nixing the converter and a Flowmaster muffler. Probably not going to result in a yuge horsepower increase but I bet it sounds good and I will probably get a few extra MPGs out of her, too…

              • Have you considered extrude honing the factory cast iron exhaust manifolds? You get a little more power but the car is quiet until you floor it, darn that makes me sound old… My older bikes could set off car alarms and my friend knew when I was coming close to their homes.

                • Hi Landru,

                  It might be worth doing (the extrude honing) if the 455 were meant for racing and an extra 3-5 hp mattered. But it’s a street car and (currently) in mild-performance tune (the current cam is an old school non-roller and any more lift/duration would have made the thing too much for street driving).

                  If we don’t get nuked and if I ever have the money to play with it, again, the plan is to get a set of earlier (than ’76) heads that will boost the CR by 2 points or so – along with a modern roller cam. That ought to bump it up to close to 400 streetable horsepower, which is plenty for the old dinosaur!

        • The only turbo’d vehcile I owned was my beloved Audi A3 TDI (RIP). 13 gallons would get me from Grand Junction CO to Las Vegas Blvd just before the low fuel warning. Driving at cruising speed, into the wind, up and down hills, AC cranked up, whatever. I usually didn’t get the EPA rated MPG but it did spend most of its life over a mile high. The few times it was at sea level (or below, in the case of Death Valley) I never looked at the fuel gage.

      • If they insert this I6 in the heavy Jeep Grand Wagoneer (which they probably will), that will be the end of that model. Right now they NEED the 6.4 Hemi.

  10. More to like:

    ‘Every Hemi family engine currently in production is based on an iron block design, so they’re heavy. The aluminum-block I6 shaves weight.

    ‘The standard-output I6 weighs 430 pounds, Stellantis engineers told us; the high-output adds just another 11. Whereas fully dressed 5.7-liter V8s are in the 550-560-pound ballpark, and 6.4-liters close in on 600 pounds.

    ‘In practical terms, it will fit anywhere the 3.6L Pentastar V6 or Hemi fits, provided you’re talking about RWD platforms. The standard output Hurricane measures 33.4″ x 28.7″ x 32.7″. The high-output checks in at 33.9″ x 29.0″ x 33.4″.

    https://www.autoblog.com/2022/03/25/stellantis-hurricane-i6-hemi-replacement/

    Without knowing the sequence (length, width, height?), the three numbers cited above are ambiguous.

    But yes, that’s a pretty compact package. I’m waiting for a photo of the aluminum short block to see how they did it.

    An 84 mm (3.31-inch) bore times 6 makes almost 20 inches for inline cylinders alone, leaving perhaps a dozen more inches for bore spacing and water jackets. Sweet.

    But it also implies that Stellantis could make a 45-inch long straight eight … if not for the dead hand of Big Gov suppressing innovation, fun and freedom.

  11. Eric, you compare the Hemi V-8’s to having a steak dinner. You can be sure after the Hemi’s are eliminated, the Regime will also eliminate the steak dinners as well. The elitist scum can’t stomach the common man having access to such luxuries!

    • Amen, Allen –

      The mistake Dodge (Stellantis) is making is assuming that they can “comply” themselves out of this. Or rather, that they won’t be put out of business, eventually, by kow-towing to this. As with the Diapers, this has to be rejected in toto. No accommodation. No go-along to get along. It must be understood that they want everything – and it’s up to us to prevent them from taking it.

    • A few years ago, I met up with a Hellcat in traffic. The driver happened to “punch it”. Man, that thing sounded wicked and awesome!

      • Yes it would make you happy..I drive a 2016 Challenger RT and its exciting and mine has the factory active exhaust and it sounds so..so..soo good! Very quick too upper 4’s 0-60 low-mid 13’s 1/4(went to Friday night drags 4 times babied though its my daily driver)..I have the 3.07 axle ratio vs the 2.62’s axle ratio,makes a big difference..Its the perfect daily driver fast enough and sound right plus it doesn’t need premium fuel!!

        I own a few collector cars today and including a 1974 Firebird Formula 400 just picked it up a month ago,carport kept since new 1 female owner a deal at 8k..it runs/drives perfect engine is 100% interior real good paint has fade and normal dents/dings but all there and I polished it yesterday,looks great from 8ft away(we measured lol)..Will get new paint by the summer..I am a Mopar guy but like and own a few other brand of cars..Nothing beats the sound of the secondaries opening up! I owned several Firebirds&Trans Ams over the years just because they were all over the place and easy to buy and fix a bit if needed and resell,especially the 1990’s..But this one probably a keeper at least for awhile..I do like them,I like the less flash of these but that hood is a give a way lol

  12. “an important reduction in greenhouse gases”. A clear indication they are prepared to kneel.
    There are only two votes that can never be fraudulent. Your wallet and your feet. Your wallet vote is being taken away by the professional bureaucrats, and used by them on their own behalf. Is the direct assault on personal transportation an attempt to take away or feet vote as well? leaving all votes in the hands of the psychopaths that count them?

  13. One indicator of how well they will sell is how many Pony Cars were sold with 6 cylinder engines in the past. Pre crazy times lots of base engine cars were sold on just their styling, I tend to look at the straight six pony cars first when I went to car shows because so few survived or had V8’s swapped in later. But if the Mustang and Camaro are cancelled or go electric I think a gas powered Challenger even though a 6 would sell quite well as it’s competition would no longer exist and who knows maybe a V8 swap kit would become available (off road use not withstanding). Just thinking of the Jan and Dean song “409” redone with a Tesla whirring sound makes we want to vomit….

    • Hi Landru,

      It appears the Camaro will be gone after 2025, so there’s that. The Mustang is likely to lose its V8, too. All very sad – and very much unnecessary.

    • Hi Landru,

      I think the conundrum here – with regard to the Challenger/Charger, which are more muscle cars than pony cars – is that they need a V8 to be what they are. Without one, they are strange things. The whole car radiates muscle car. Massive, hulking things. Under the hood, too.

      Now imagine popping the hood and finding… an inline six that’s smaller than a Camry’s V6. Yes, I know – the Hurricanes make a lot more power. But is that the point? The defining thing?

      I think it isn’t.

      If it were, the people who bought Challengers over Teslas probably wouldn’t have…

  14. ‘the “Hurricane” 3.0 liter engine, which is an entirely different kind of engine’ — eric

    Indeed it is: unlike a straight four, a straight six is inherently balanced.

    I’ll never forget sitting in a friend’s idling Chevy pickup with a stovebolt six: it was impossible to perceive that the engine was running.

    By contrast, a Chrysler 4.7L V8 that I owned in a Jeep Grand Cherokee was rough as a cob — unforgivable.

    The 3.0L Hurricane “fits in any [longitudinal-engine] vehicle that has a V6 or V8 today,” says Stellantis.

    And that’s the mystery: how do you make a straight six as short in the longitudinal direction as a V6 or a V8, with their cylinders staggered in two banks?

    I thought geometry (length) was the main factor killing off straight sixes. Now it’s not, says Stellantis. More info please!

    Just for perspective, the 2.8L (170 cubic inch) straight six in a 1963 Ford Falcon delivered a mighty 101 horsepower. Whereas in its high output version, the 3.0L Hurricane six cranks out over 500 horsepower.

    In a normal society, increasing power density by a factor of five in 60 years — while dramatically decreasing emissions — would be celebrated as a technological achievement, rather than the last gasp of the internal combustion engine.

    Me happy! Though I still crave a straight eight, with a long, long hood to match.

    Bring it!

    • Hi Jim,

      I like in-line sixes, too – and would welcome this engine were it not the (forced) replacement for the Hemi engine. The power is stout, but how much more will it cost to make (and sell) this engine, with all the additional parts? How long will this 20-plus PSI breathed-on engine last, vs. the lazy but reliable V8?

    • The Falcon six was never evolved further than the 250cid seven main bearing version in my ’73 Maverick in the USA. However Ford of Australia did, first they solved it’s breathing problems with a proper cylinder head and intake and then they designed essentially a new generations of the engine over the years moving to overhead cam etc and so on. It full performance trim it was quite the beast before the plug was pulled in 2016 or so.

LEAVE A REPLY

Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here