Shrinkflation as Applied to Electrification

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Less is always more when it comes to electric vehicles.

The latest news is that doubling the voltage of commercial charging infrastructure – from 400 to 800 volts – will “reduce” the time it takes to instill a partial recharge to “only” about twice the time it takes to refuel a non-electric car to full. 

Italicized to emphasize the usual dishonesty of presentation when it comes to “news” – always glorious!  – about electric cars. In this case, the attempt to equate the time it takes to refuel most any non-electric car to full with the time it takes to put a partial charge in an electric car – using commercial  infrastructure that doesn’t exist – without explaining to the marks that if you only get a partial charge, you’ll be recharging again and soon.

That means even if 800 volt charging facilities were hey, presto’d! into existence tomorrow, reducing the time it takes to partially recharge an EV to “just” 10 minutes, it would be the equivalent of putting a perhaps a quarter-tank of gas in a non-electric car (enough to go about 100 miles) which would take less than five minutes in the non-electric car. 

And then? If you’re driving the partially charged electric car? 

You stop, again.

But it’s “only” another ten minutes!

Which makes 20, total. And these 20 aren’t at home, which means it’s more than less because you have to add in the time it takes to get to the “fast” charger – and then get home – because no homes can “fast” charge an electric car at 800 volts or even 400 as they are not set up to handle that kind of load. Neither are the neighborhoods and outlying areas, where it would be be necessary to re-wire everything to make this “work.”

And it’s not even the same 100 miles as it would be if we were talking about partially fueling a non-electric car.

Because in an electric car, it is necessary to always have sufficient reserve charge available to account for the varying range of the EV. Which may go considerably less far than the “100 miles” of hypothetical range instilled, depending on such things as the weather (very cold or very hot) which are factors that have very little effect on the range of non-electric cars – because gasoline doesn’t lose energy when it gets colder or hotter.

Batteries do.

What if the putative “100 miles” of partially charged range is only 80, in fact – because it’s 26 degrees outside and that plus running the heater has reduced it by 20 percent? This happens, commonly. But it’s not common knowledge because it’s not reported and explained to the marks being cattle-prodded into the Wonderful World of Electrification – where they will pay twice as much for an electric car that goes half as far on a full charge – and which will make them wait either much longer or much more frequently.

Italics, again, to really make the point.

Even if given he benefit of many doubts, a partial charge is not a full charge, is it? That that means you will be stopping again, sooner. Just as you would have to do if you never filled up your non-electric car’s tank to full but instead only put a quarter of a tank in at a time.

If you have to “fast” charge twice in one day, using the not-yet-hey-presto’d 800 volt commercial recharging architecture that isn’t available except in a very few industrially wired areas, then you are spending twice 10 minutes at the least – i.e., 20 minutes – to get less than what five minutes would cost you once, with a non-electric car.

And if you don’t want to stop more than once each day then you’ll be obliged to organize your day around the much longer wait it takes to instill a full charge at even the “fastest” charger, which can’t charge your battery pack to full, “fast” because of the heat and attendant fire risk. This is why “fast” charging to “full” is in fact about 80 percent full. Which means if you want 100 percent charged – and the full advertised range that’s touted by the manufacturer, you will then have to sit for considerably longer while the remaining 20 percent is slow-charged, so as to reduce (not eliminate) the possibility of damaging the battery or setting it alight.

There is also the Other People Factor to consider.

If there is someone ahead of you, plugged in for his “fast” (and partial) charge then you must add his wait to yours. This will scale in a not-happy way for EV people because the throughput problem will increase the more EVs there are in need of “fast” charging.

A gas station with six pumps can refuel (to full) six cars in about five minutes; in ten minutes, twelve cars – and so on. Throughput is not a problem because refueling non-electric cars to full is fast – and a refueled-to-full car will not need to be re-fueled, again . . . for days.

How about six “fast” chargers? Six EVs can be partially charged in about 10 ten minutes, so the wait for the next six is already twice as long as it would be refuel a gas car to full, once the gas car ahead of you is fueled.

But it is likely there will be more than just one EV in line ahead of you, waiting for its partial charge, because so many EVs were partially charged and now they need to get some more charge, again.

This assumes an 800 volt architecture which doesn’t exist.

And they ask me why I drink . . .

. . .

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88 COMMENTS

  1. Shrinkflation has returned with a vengeance anyway. If you buy a “half gallon” carton of OJ, it’s 56 oz, not 64. Candy bars getting smaller, eh, that’s happened as cocoa and/or sugar prices fluctuate. It’s been going on with cars for about 45 years; driven by CAFE, not necessarily by consumers, as smaller, fuel-efficient rides were always available. Part of the reason that ordinary passenger cars are disappearing altogether, as in your other article on the Plymouth Volare, now by size and engine (but not by weight, interestingly enough, the Volare would be a very light vehicle, and probably wouldn’t meet current S-A-A-A-A-F-T-E-E-E-E-E-E standards for crash worthiness anyway.

  2. I work in clean energy. I spoke on Friday with a distribution electrical engineer on Friday about this. He has a database of 24,000 electric distribution circuits nationally. He checked and found that 95% of them could not handle two cars charging with these 800 Volt chargers simultaneously.

    Biden’s Infrastructure Bill has billions for electric vehicles, but nothing for where it is needed; upgrading neighborhood electrical circuits so that the cars could be charged without shorting out entire neighborhoods.

    • It is all a huge lie, would never work, it is really all about terminating people’s mobility, controlling you, no freedom of speech, thought, mobility, money, you will own nothing, go nowhere and be happy. You will be totally controlled by a globalist/satanist, great fun, haha.

  3. Tesla launch control unuseable, useless.

    The only feature the Tesla has is quick 0 to 60 mph, but it is not use-able, takes too long to activate, in the real world on the street is useless. This was probably done so you don’t break the fragile drivetrain, the Porsche Taycan EV doesn’t have that problem, it can launch hard at any time, no delay and over and over, that is why you buy a Porsche.

    In regular mode the Tesla is slow compared to the other top, quick, performance cars, this is a real problem, it was marketed as the quickest 0 to 60, but you can’t use it easily.

    In the real world 0 to 30 mph, like at lights is the real battle ground, Tesla advertises 0 to 60 where it is quick, but 0 to 30 mph (launching hard), and getting nearly 5000 lb moving it is beaten by lighter cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo (3600 lb.) which launches harder then the Tesla, by 50 mph the Tesla catches and passes the 911 turbo.

    The Porsche 911 turbo S is probably the quickest car, out of the hole, through intersections of any car, the intersection king. The Tesla is supposed to be quick but at nearly 5000 lb it isn’t from a stop, you can’t get that much weight moving easily, there is no fix for this, it is overweight, you thought you bought the quickest car but it isn’t, you bought the illusion, not the reality.

    Using Tesla launch control:
    Select the Settings menu. Under Acceleration, press and hold the Ludicrous button for five seconds. As with the P90D, this prompts a warp screen of flashing lights followed by a screen that asks, “Are you sure you want to push the limits? This will cause accelerated wear of the motor, gearbox and battery.” The two buttons below are marked, “No, I want my Mommy,” and “Yes, bring it on!”

    Selecting the latter initiates a process of battery and motor conditioning, wherein the battery temperature is raised slightly and the motors are cooled using the air-conditioning system. It usually takes just a few minutes, longer in extreme ambient temperatures or after repeated runs. You should expect to wait a minimum of 10 minutes in between runs.

    The readout below the acceleration buttons will say ready when it’s all set. Then you simply hold the brake, promptly tromp the accelerator, and quickly release it to initiate launch-control mode (which is verified on the instrument cluster display). Then firmly hold the brake for a split second while you nail the go pedal.

    The Porsche Taycan EV doesn’t have that issue.
    Launch control: Using it requires enabling the sport driving mode and simply pressing both pedals with your feet. And then letting the brake go.

    The Porsche 911 Turbo is quick, watch the video………

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpC_AoSnPrQ

    If you want to beat everything, get this Audi RS3…….

    A brand new Audi RS 3 starts off at a base price of $56,200 in the USA, MSRP.

    You can buy and tune an RS 3 for less then a tesla plaid and it is quicker, this RS 3 ran an 8.4 second quarter mile. 0 to 60 mph 1.3 seconds. 3000 lb 1100 hp.

    This RS 3 is a better solution then buying a 5000 lb. tesla plaid. ice cars are better then EV’s.
    The RS 3 you can actually hear, feel and smell, the sound of this thing is wild, EV’s are dead no emotion or fun.

    https://www.hotcars.com/worlds-fastest-audi-rs3-drag-races-ken-blocks-1400-hp-mustang-hoonicorn/

  4. More EV charging/range numbers

    EV lies about range and cost per mile:

    The fake green pumpers always quote the maximum city fuel economy for EV’s, on the highway they get way worse fuel economy. EV’s are only good to drive around town, drag racing at lights and virtue signalling. never take an EV on a long trip.

    Rich people buy them as a novelty/toy as a third or fourth car, they own houses where they can charge them, non homeowners have nowhere to charge them, a huge problem.

    2021 Polestar 2 EV

    Polestar range:
    in the city, kwh used per 60 miles = 21.7 = range of 200 miles.
    (but based on 60% useable battery charge city range = 120 miles)
    on the highway, kwh used per 60 miles = 30.7 = range of 140 miles.
    (but based on 60% useable battery charge highway range = 84 miles)

    You better drive very slowly (defeating the only use for EV’s….fast 0 to 60), or you won’t get 120 miles city, or 84 miles highway.

    EV’s have to be driven very slowly or they waste even more energy, a tesla was driven at a race track at 10 tenths it used 80 miles range up in 8 miles. (so an 84 mile range becomes 8 mile range?)

    That is based on total battery capacity, you can only use 60% 0f the battery’s capacity, between 20% and 80%. under 20% you have a lot less power and can damage the battery, over 80% takes far too long to charge, has to be slow charged or battery will be damaged.

    Re: city/highway fuel economy:
    In not ideal conditions the range can drop a lot, if it is very cold range can drop 50%, if you used windshield wipers, the electric heater, the rear defroster, headlights, stereo, etc., the highway range will drop even more, instead of 140 miles now it is 60 miles or less x 60% useable battery capacity = 36 miles ?

    It can use 49.1 Kwh per 100 miles on the highway. @ $0.14 to $0.27 per kwh it will cost $6.80 to $13.20 to go 100 miles.

    Plus the cost of the battery, which is huge.
    the tesla $22,000 battery is used up, worn out in 100,000 miles. this works out to $22.00 per 100 miles it is costing you for the battery.

    Total cost to go 100 miles, $6.80 to $13.20 for the electricity plus $22.00 for the battery (battery cost per 100 miles) = $28.68 to $35.20 to go 100 miles. You better just use for short trips around town.

    travelling 100 miles in a 50 mpg diesel uses 2 gallons of fuel @ $4.00/gal. = $8.00

    The green bs’ers say $28.68 to $35.20 is less then $8.00 in their imagination.

    EV’s are very expensive to own run.

  5. Speaking of dishonesty – another interesting thing to note Eric – most commercial chargers SPLIT the current to the cars available. So for example if there is an 800 volt one which can in theory charge your car at a particular speed at the side of the road, but you pull up and there are 2 other cars plugged in – the current will be split amongst you and the other 2. Granted not all points are like this but most of the ones they’ve put into town centres and supermarket car parks or motorway rest areas are, and a number of people have told me about this – ie they expected an (almost) full charge in an hour, only to return and see the thing half charged!! And because most apps or online maps dont show this (only showing the maximum charge power at a point and calculating trip times according to that) in the real world they are absolutely pointless, and nothing more than a marketing tool !

    I wonder how it will work when (as ford tells us all) a bunch of F150 lightnings will be hauling up and down the country hauling things using nothing but (a lot of) electric power !!!

          • The 1990 movie doesn’t explicitly state it, but we assume it’s an EV, being set 94 years into the future from when the film premiered. Note that it readily bursts into flame when the dismounted “cabbie” (voiced by Robert Piccardo, the hologram “doctor” from Star Trek’s “Voyager”) is enraged at Doug Quaid (Schwarzenegger) for stiffing him of the cab fare, and tries to run him over, and crashes into a massive concrete column.

    • They won’t be towing much if at a all. Once someone tries, they will figure it out pretty quick.
      Most are estimating towing range under 100miles with a load of 4-5K lbs, and much less to whatever max. load the truck is rated too.

      • EV lies about range and cost per mile:

        You better drive very slowly or the range will be very short.

        EV’s have to be driven very slowly or they waste even more energy, a tesla was driven at a race track at 10 tenths it used 80 miles range up in 8 miles. (so an 84 mile range becomes 8 mile range?)
        Towing something using full power, the same problem, much shorter range.

        That is based on total battery capacity, you can only use 60% 0f the battery’s capacity, between 20% and 80%. under 20% you have a lot less power and can damage the battery, over 80% takes far too long to charge, has to be slow charged or battery will be damaged.

        Re: city/highway fuel economy:
        In not ideal conditions the range can drop a lot, if it is very cold range can drop 50%, if you used windshield wipers, the electric heater, the rear defroster, headlights, stereo, etc., the highway range will drop even more.

        Re: EV trucks
        What will the range be if it is very cold, you are towing something on the highway and you have the heater on? lawsuits coming?

        • Anon- this guy has done a really good video on how range drops with speed on electric cars – he took the new EQE on the autobahn, which has a 400 mile range, and recorded how much the range dropped….. as you said, at top speed on a de-restricted section the range is only about 100 miles.

          https://youtu.be/6BSdq-MpPdg?t=113

          • Interesting numbers

            The EQE350 Mercedes EV features a 90.6-kWh battery pack that’s expected to provide a driving range of more than 300 miles.

            Re test: the test driver took the new EQE on the autobahn, which has a 400 mile range, and recorded how much the range dropped….. at top speed on a de-restricted section the range is only about 100 miles.
            You better just use for short trips around town, EV’s range drops a lot on the highway.

            the EQER EV used around 90 kwh Kwh in 100 miles at top speed on the highway. @ $0.14 to $0.27 per kwh it will cost $12.60 to $24.30 for the electricity to go 100 miles.

            Plus the cost of the battery, which is huge, you have to store the electricity in the very, very expensive battery, that is the killer for EV’s right there, the expensive, rapidly wearing out battery.
            the tesla $22,000 battery is used up, worn out in 100,000 miles. this works out to $22.00 per 100 miles it is costing you for the battery.

            Total cost to go 100 miles, $12.60 to $24.30 for the electricity plus $22.00 for the battery (battery cost per 100 miles) = $34.60 to $46.30 to go 100 miles.

            travelling 100 miles in a 50 mpg diesel powered car uses 2 gallons of fuel @ $4.00/gal. = $8.00

            EV’s have to be driven very slowly or they waste even more energy, a tesla was driven at a race track at 10 tenths it used 80 miles range up in 8 miles. (so an 84 mile range becomes 8 mile range?)

            They quote range based on total battery capacity, but………you can only use 60% of the battery’s capacity, between 20% and 80%. under 20% you have a lot less power and can damage the battery, over 80% takes far too long to charge, has to be slow charged or battery will be damaged.

            Re: city/highway fuel economy:

            What if it is really cold out?
            In not ideal conditions the range can drop a lot, if it is very cold range can drop 50%, if you used windshield wipers, the electric heater, the rear defroster, headlights, stereo, etc., the highway range will drop even more then 50%, instead of 100 miles now it is 50 miles or less x 60% useable battery capacity = 30 miles ?

            • One difference is the diesel powered car doesn’t need a $22,000 battery for storage, it just has a $200 gas tank for energy storage that lasts longer then the car.

  6. 500 megawatt power plant generating electricity for 100 hours will deliver 50,000 megawatt hours of electricity to the grid system. 50,000,000 kwh, 1,000,000 EVs will be fully charged. 100 hours is 4.25 days.

    If you go with the flow, 240 volts times 20 amps equals 4800 watts. Ten hours of charging at 240 volts with a current of 20 amps will charge the battery to almost full of 50 kwh of electricity.

    10 kwh discharge per hour should have you about 100 km in distance.

    100 hours of charging 1,000,000 EV’s is going to consume electricity Conehead style, massive quantities.

    24 times 350 days of generation, downtime for maintenance, is a total of 8400 hours of generation, times 500 equals 4,200,000 megawatt hours of electricity production from one 500 megawatt power plant. 4,200,000,000,000 watt hours. 4.2 terawatt hours.

    500 megawatts times 24 equals 12,000 megawatt hours of electricity generated in one day at a 500 megawatt generating facility. The math will check.

    1,000,000 EVs with 50 kwh batteries will need 50 million kilowatts of electricity to charge the one million 50 kwh batteries. 50,000 megawatts, 50 gigawatts of electricity. 0.5 terawatt hours to charge one million EVs once to a full charge. Repeat the charging by 50 times, once a week, 2500 million kilowatt hours of electricity consumed to charge one million EVs for one year. 2.5 terawatt hours of electricity to charge one million EVs in one year’s time. 2,500,000,000,000 watt hours.

    100 times more will require 5,000,000,000,000 watt hours of electricity. Five terawatt hours, times 50 charges, 250 terawatt hours required to charge 100,000,000 EVs for one year.

    Unless the math is all wrong, it is pure lunacy to think it can actually happen. I happen to like fiddling with numbers and if they’re all wrong, so sotty.

    4.2 terawatt hours are generated and consumed in the US each year.

    You have to increase electricity generation by 60 times to keep 100,000,000 EV’s on the road for a year. Won’t be happening this century.

    Unsustainable. There won’t be anything near 100,000,000 EV’s.

    Doesn’t pencil out.

    • Correction on total generation of electricity. Got it all wrong.

      It is 4,116 billion kilowatt hours. 4,116,000,000,000,000 watt hours.

      The total terawatts is then 4,116, not 4.2 terawatts. Read the information incorrectly. My bad.

      250 terawatt hours to charge 100,000,000 EV’s, there is sufficient generation to make it happen. Still iffy on the sustainability issue.

      Going to take a lot of electricity to manufacture 100,000,000 EV’s.

  7. Be fun to see all the Teslarati (hat tip to MarkyMark) sitting along the side of the road in a grid-down situation like that Texas ice storm last year. Can’t even hoof it down to a charging station to fill up a five gallon can of kilowatts 😆

  8. The fake green pumpers always quote the maximum city fuel economy for EV’s, on the highway they get way worse fuel economy. EV’s are only good to drive around town, drag racing at lights and virtue signalling. never take an EV on a long trip.

    Rich people buy them as a novelty/toy as a third or fourth car, they own houses where they can charge them, non homeowners have nowhere to charge them, a huge problem.

    Polestar 2 2021 EV

    Polestar range:
    in the city, kwh used per 60 miles = 21.7 = range of 200 miles.
    on the highway, kwh used per 60 miles = 30.7 = range of 140 miles.

    Re: city/highway fuel economy:
    In not ideal conditions the range can drop a lot, if it is very cold range can drop 50%, if you used windshield wipers, the electric heater, the rear defroster, headlights, stereo, etc., the highway range instead of 140 miles now is 60 miles or less?

    It can use 49.1 Kwh per 100 miles on the highway. @ $0.14 to $0.27 per kwh it will cost $6.80 to $13.20 to go 100 miles.

    Plus the cost of the battery, which is huge.
    the tesla $22,000 battery is used up, worn out in 100,000 miles. this works out to $22.00 per 100 miles it is costing you for the battery.

    Total cost to go 100 miles, $6.80 to $13.20 for the electricity plus $22.00 for the battery (battery cost per 100 miles) = $28.68 to $35.20 to go 100 miles. You better just use for short trips around town.

    travelling 100 miles in a 50 mpg diesel uses 2 gallons of fuel @ $4.00/gal. = $8.00

    The green bs’ers say $28.68 to $35.20 is less thern $8.00 in their imagination.

    EV’s are very expensive to own run.

    • Hi Anon,

      The last EV I got to test drive was a VW; it delivered within 10 percent of the touted range in stop and go/low speed driving. But when I drove it “up the mountain” – an elevation gain of appx. 2000 feet over the course of about 12 miles – the range plummeted. Also when run 75-80 on the highway. These things are simply not ready for general use – and that’s why the tout how quick they are, briefly.

  9. I am noticing that the time it takes to charge electric cars is a common theme in many articles on this site. Also speed limits on roads are another issue. Time is of course important, but somethings do take time and I am sure if you are late for work or an appointment, you are time pressed. I do believe the quality of our lives would improve, if we would slow down a bit. If it take an extra fifteen minutes to charge your car verses filling a car with gas, so what? Things have improved greatly since I was a young man. We used to waite 3 days to get our pictures developed at the local drug store. You order something from amazon and in a couple days it’s sitting on your front porch. I remember waiting week for things we ordered from the Sears catalog. Just an observation and comment for consideration

    • Hi Oskar,

      In re: “I do believe the quality of our lives would improve, if we would slow down a bit. If it take an extra fifteen minutes to charge your car verses filling a car with gas, so what?”

      That’s a subjective value judgment – and as such, I have no problem with it at all. I like old Trans-Ams and don’t mind the various downsides of owning a 12 MPG bright orange muscle car. But – here’s the thing: My Trans-Am isn’t being forced on anyone else; nor is anyone else being mulcted to subsidize it.

      If you don’t mind the slowing-down/wait, that’s cool! You have as much right to wait as I have to not want to.

      The fundamental gripe – the moral problem – with EVs isn’t that they are electric or expensive or require waiting. It is that they are being forced down all of our throats.

    • “If you are late for an work or an appointment”, there is no reason to hurry. You have already insulted those waiting on you, that your time is more valuable than theirs. Hurry won’t make you on time. Whether 5 minutes or ten, late is late.

  10. Well, if you like this article, you’ll LOVE this one:

    “The Death of the Gas Station”

    https://www.vox.com/recode/23023671/ev-charging-network-gas-station-fast-charger?utm_source=pocket_discover

    One sensible point is made, however. IF there is ever the infrastructure to allow everyone to charge their EVs at home every night, that’s where the majority of “fueling” will be done. This means you will begin each day with a full “tank of gas”, even if it only gets you half as far as an actual tank of gas. Rarely would you be using the “gas” station, unless you are on a road trip.

    That said, I still see people keeping their gas powered cars as long as possible. Especially with the diminishing power of their money, most people aren’t going to buy $40k+ electric cars.

    • A whole lot of people simply cannot do that in major metropolitan areas. Sometimes, when I didn’t have a “spot” (an assigned parking space due to an apartment rental), I was lucky to park on the same freaking block as where I lived.

      I don’t think they make quarter/half mile extension cords, do they? 😀

      And when I did have a “spot” (both times) it was in a multiple unit property. I would have needed something like a 500 foot extension cable. And have you lived in a place like San Diego where, if you leave a scrap of bread outside it’ll be stolen in ten seconds flat?

      And so my wife is telling me… all those people… they get no car.

      f__k, huh? I guess that’s worth it?? Because the planet or something.

      • Yep, EM, if you live in “Multi-Family Housing”, you’re screwed. They’d have to retrofit all the parking spaces with charging units, and good luck pushing them to do that. Renters these days, especially in Phx, aren’t calling the shots. They’re lucky to just pay the rent, let alone get their landlords to install electrical infrastructure.

        Also, you might foresee code requirements for new houses wherein the garage must be somehow fireproof, so as to resist complete conflagration when EVs go up in lithium smoke. That should add many $thousands to the cost of a new house.

        • The whole point is everybody will be walking or won’t exist, satanist gates will still be driving his 959 Porsche and eating steaks, you will eat bugs sold by gates……..

  11. The price of everything is getting insane. The wife makes us ice cream from scratch w/o sugar. Its actually delicious, w/o all the crap that goes into store bought. One of the main ingredients is heavy whipping cream. The other day it was 9 bucks for a quart. Thats a double in short order from a couple months ago. At least it is still available.

    Our stores have rolling shortages of varied items all the time. Then again, most things in the store aren’t even food. Boxes of processed crap dominate 90% of everything outside the produce isle/butcher. This time of year we’re fortunate to get the majority of our produce from our own effort. From about mid may-through late September, we enjoy fruits and veggies that come from our garden/farmers market.

    These elite wannabes won’t be happy until everyone is fighting over scraps outside the local Fema center/ Wally World. Hope everyone is well provisioned for the coming unpleasantness.

    • My wife makes ice cream from scratch too. Lots of different ways. It’s great but not too often because it’ll put on the weight!

      She also makes chocolate from nibs! Uses a thing called a “melanger” to grind the nibs on a stone and then uses different sweeteners like stevia or alluluse, etc. Or just unprocessed cane sugar or whatever sometimes.

      But now the ingredients for the hard-to-do hobby/foodie things is getting pretty serious!

      I’m a home brewer. Thank god that I decided to stock up on a few hundred pounds of grain! And the hops too. Got pounds and pounds in the freezer.

      Along with the remains of a half cow share and now a new quarter share!

      I got a Kitchenaid mixer specifically for the coming zombie apocalypse. That and several pounds of different wheat flour.

      This is insane. I shouldn’t have to live like this.

        • Hey EM, Trying to eat healthy was never cheap. Now its just getting stupid. Almond flour which we use for most baking, and the stevia we use for sweetening has at least doubled.

          I don’t brew my own beer, but I made a batch of pretty decent moonshine last year. Its just like high test ever clear. Needs Hawaiian Punch or Pineapple juice to be tolerable.

          And you are 100% correct. We shouldn’t have to live like this.

            • Oh and the WEF website says we ate moving away from an animal based economy. I am betting Klaus Schwab and Bill Hates will still eat ice cream and steak tho.

            • Hi Eric, I’ve decided me and mine will continue to eat healthy/well in spite of the price. When I no longer have that choice its time to start cutting heads.

              The crap they will put on offer, once this thing goes tits up will all be corn based, glycol laced fake food. Those who didn’t prepare will be left little choice but to pony up. Just like they did for the jab.

  12. I have a very small yard, less than 8000 ft.², so I decided to try a battery powered lawnmower. It takes 2 1/2 hours to charge and, depending on how thick the grass is, may or may not cut everything. With a gas mower, it takes about 10 seconds to get enough energy to mow everything on one tank. When the battery one finally dies, I’m going back to a gas mower even though it’s sort of inconvenient for my lifestyle. I think the purveyors of electric are glorified snake oil salesmen.

    • Ha, Mike. I’ve noticed over the past year or so that there are a plethora a electric lawnmowers for sale on the local CL. I had concluded that people buy ’em, find out they are unusable, and then try to unload them. The ads stay up forever though…apparently the electric-hype marketing only works on the original purchasers 🙂 .

      Meanwhile, the price of used gas mowers has skyrocketed- even for the crappiest cheapest-when-new ones.

      I picked up an older Honda mower for $15 two years ago, because it needed a $5 part. I hate these Hondas though! Great engines…but the mowers are ridiculously heavy. I know I could sell it for $100 or more- but trouble is, it seems to be impossible to find a plain-old simple NON self-propelled big wheel mower anymore….. (Think I’ll just sell this Honda and buy a Chinky engine for my old simple very light big-wheel- loved that mower- it cost $129 when it was new 20 years ago!)

    • Why pay big money when plenty of people throw stuff out that quit working and if you’re sort of handy you can get it to work again cheap. That’s where my mower, pressure washer, wheelbarrow, garden tools, etc. came from. Replacement parts like carburetors I just order from evil bay.

      • Depends on where you are in the country. If you’re surrounded by affluent snobs you’ll likely trip over good shit at the curb. If your neighbors are rednecks or hillbillies everything gets used up and the rare freebie disappears in a flash.

        • Yes, Cletus, yes! Best of all is when we hilbilly rednecks come in from our rural shantys to go curb divin! All the good pickins I’ve saved over the years are turning into a pretty nice pile of wealth. Unfortunately, most of the customers are credit buyers and I’m not willing to barter unless they have a tasty red-headed sister of questionable judgement.

  13. EVs are great if you have an oligarch’s fleet of vehicles. That way you can pick out the one that’s best for the given task, much like shoes. “On our way to Saks… Oh I know! Let’s take the Tesla! It is ever so much fun!”

  14. Kwh rating for a tesla batteries are rated at 100-104 (per 30 second web search.) My 26 gallon diesel tank on my pickup converts to1,058 kwh. (Also per 30 second web search). This takes me in the neighborhood of minutes to pump and I can make 500-600 miles without refueling. There are a lot of variables when talking energy storage, distribution and usage but, Electric still isn’t even close on range, convenience, longevity, cost, available infrastructure.
    Currently Electric is good for quiet golf carts , light duty fork lifts, or city dwellers whose daily commute is miniscule. I log in the neighborhood of 25-35,000 miles per year just for work. As much as I’d like Evs to work they are insanely impractical from my standpoint.
    Large scale EV use won’t happen until they solve the battery/charging problem or change the laws of physics thru executive order.
    Watch the media puppets and other retards pump their fists when tesla sqeezes another 25 miles of range from $20,000.00 battery though.

  15. Wait till EV owners have to contend with consistently cold temperatures below freezing for days, weeks, and even months at a time. Batteries do not take kindly to cold temperatures and capacity is reduced tremendously.
    200 mile range on a 70 degree day will be reduced to 50 miles at 0 degrees.

    • Not to mention, what happens when you go to the charger, and the electricity is out? Oh…you’re stranded for a few hours or days? (And even if that charging infrastructure magically appears, imagine how many more outages there will be what with 400-800V equipment literally on every block?!)

      • Didn’t folks in California, during the Paradise fire-figure this one out the hard way? Fires started, so PG&E shut down the power. Whoops, guess who could not charge their vehicles, & got stranded on the side of the road? As the saying goes, “you cannot fix stupid, but you CAN sedate it”.

  16. I’m guessing Costco sees a bright future for themselves in EVs. All of the stores around me now feature supercharger stations in the parking lot, and the WA State Governor, who signed the bill outlawing non-EV sales in his state within the decade, Inslee, doesn’t use the restroom without a hall pass from Issaquah.

    $1.50 hot dogs and drinks for everyone while waiting in line.

    • Sheetz has seating now. What started out as a gas station is now a full fast food restaurant, bakery, liquor store, and oh, they sell gas too. Most of them have EV charging stations, so waiting wil be a natural fit.

      Come for the zap, stay for the gas (and heartburn)!

      • Berkshire Hathaway is moving to acquire the rest of Flying J that The Gecko doesn’t aready own. My guess is that the chain will be big into charging stations eventually, with a revamp of the stores to look similar to a Buc-ee’s in terms of both environment and scale.

      • Well, what the hell, once fully autonomous electric vehicles become reality, you’ll be able to get sloshed whilst your Virtuemobile charges, and be on your merry way. All perfectly legal, no chauffeur required.

        Looks like a growth industry, to me. Probably offer “complimentary” charging on the slow (“standard”) charger for pub patrons while they make it back, and then some, on the bar bill.

        And you thought ethanol was only for fuel tanks.

        • There’s the problem with autonomous vehicles. Who’s responsible when things go south? If you’re 3 Sheetz to the wind you’re not responsible for what happens. Is the manufacturer going to pay your hospital bill?

          And as I’ve said before, if cars become “transportation services” where you order up a ride, don’t dare look for a ride Sunday morning! All the human viscera and excretion on the interior will make the New York subway system look like an operating room run by Felix Unger!

          • Morning, RK!

            “Autonomous” vehicles = surrender of autonomy. You are no longer autonomous, able to drive whenever/wherever and however you like. You are now along for the ride, autonomously controlled by distant parties.

            It will be like riding the bus – and just as empowering.

            • Aside from the liability issues, these things are incredibly expensive. Long range LIDAR sensors cost hundreds of dollars each, and most atonomous vehicles have several, if only just for redundancy. They have enough computing power on board to run a fairly good cryptomining operation, and that takes a fair bit of electrical power. The software requires perfection to a higher degree than the aerospace industry, if only because NASA can issue temporary flight restrictions (TFR) during a launch to make sure there’s no other aircraft in the sky, not to mention the amount of stuff in the air is a fraction of what’s on the ground, especially at cruising altitude, and typically isn’t going to do random things like chase a ball out into your path.

              Yesterday morning the neighbors were enjoying an Easter egg hunt. I pulled out of the driveway and their little yappy dog ran out into the street, as it does. I saw her run in front of my car, but then lost track of her. So I stopped and waited while the neighbor grabbed her. She blended in with the road pretty well, if I didn’t know the dog I might not have noticed.

              In the big picture, the damn dog needs to be better trained or put on a leash. But imagine the kids watching as their pet was turned into a grease spot under my tires, on a happy Easter morning. And how’s that going to play out on Instagram?

              • Speaking of dogs…
                Are you the alpha male for your dogs? If so, good for you, if not, YOU are the problem.
                The problem is that many dog owners are either stupid or just ignorant and unaware of their dog’s behavior and idiosyncrasies.
                Every friend of mine that owns dogs is impervious to the smell that their houses and furniture get from having dogs living with them, not to mention the hair, urine and fecal smell that their dogs and abodes secrete. Thankfully, being exposed to such disgusting smells can be minimized.
                Some dog owners are so “brainwashed” that dogs actually control them. They put up with behavior from their dogs that they would not allow a human to do.
                Rather than the human being the “alpha male” which is the normal, proper order of things, the dog is the “alpha male” ruling the dog owner who is too stupid to see that he is being manipulated by an animal.
                Inconsiderate dog owners just laugh when their untrained, undisciplined dog “humps” the legs of visitors or begs for food by jumping on visitors, thinking that their dog’s behavior is “cute”.
                One of my pet peeves is sitting at the dinner table as a guest and having their dog bump and nuzzle, begging for food. THAT is a major irritant, in my book. If I can get away with it, a good “pop to the dog’s nose” usually stops that behavior.
                A well-trained dog should NEVER beg for food and should be restricted from areas where and when humans are eating.
                Dogs crapping everywhere is but another inconsideration that many dog owners overlook or ignore.
                I have run into many dog owners who insist that their dogs won’t bite, despite their snarling unfriendly behavior.
                Well-behaved dogs who know their place can be a pleasure, but unfortunately there are too many dogs and dog owners who need to “trade places”.

                • Re: dog owners.
                  I agree, this business with pet ownership has me wondering if the origins of the bestiality taboo wasn’t about critterfucking at all. These pet owners love and tolerate all manner of destruction and filth brought on by turning their homes into pigpens. They love these animals more than their fellow man and many times more than their spouses or children. In fact many fail to have family or friends at all and end up crazy toxoplasmo cat ladies or dog hoarders. Just another sign of societies excess and decay I reckon… Almost gives me sick pleasure thinking of the coming famine when these doggie daddies have to choose between eating fido or expiring and becoming a beggin strip. Sadly I bet most will starve because fidos family now. The devolution is complete. Stick a fork in it.

            • Hit Post too soon. My point is that even if they offer these things up for retail, they’re going to add $100K to the cost of a vehicle easily. So the only way to get the mass production they want is to “share” them. There will be people who can afford to own one outright, just like there are people who can pay a personal driver. The cost will come down over time, but I think it will be one of those things that will always be just out of reach for most of us. So we’ll get the optimized for masses version, that has hard plastic seats, rubber floors and heat that you can’t control. And constant assult from advertising, gang tags and “what’s that smell?”

  17. Having spent most of my working life using pickup trucks, the absurdity that an EV version of them, the F series, is practical is beyond delusional. If I were willing to put in the effort, I could name perhaps a hundred instances where they would utterly fail. Here’s one. You are working on a job site without line power. The temperature drops from 50f degrees to 30f degrees. Your truck is not fully charged, and now you have to run your heater. Turning your EV pickup into an enormous paper weight parked on the shoulder, with you on foot. Leaving the thousand(s) or so dollars worth of tools and material ready to be absconded with by any thief who happens upon it, in their IC pickup.

    • LOL.
      I can hardly wait for the “mandate” for 800V EV charging stations as part of temp power on construction sites. Sure. And pigs will fly, by executive order.

      Years ago, temp power was frequently very weak at the end of the temp lines on some larger sites. As in, 180 VAC measured where there is supposed to be 220, and don’t even think about the “120V” plug. I still have a transformer I used to step down the nominal 220 (180 actual) so as not to burn up my saws. A Skil 77 runs great at 150 volts. Just don’t cut your own leg off.

      800V? Times how many pickups on site?
      You’re dreaming, mate. LSD dreaming.

  18. Nobody talks about servicing the charging stations themselves. These things are not like a battery charger you plug in the wall. 400 volts or more is some serious shit. Unlike one pump going down, one charger going down will take throw your throughput out the window and introduce bottleneck!

    How many 400/800v stations will be at a single location?

    Oh and let me tell you a story about a guy named Brian Wilson — who I never met, had the same name as an old school buddy, and met a famous and tragic end at a San Diego bus stop. He dared to sit down on that metal bench at the bus stop and then his worries came to an abrupt end. You see that the huge advertising marquee thing shorted out on the bench and was live when he sat down. He had the rest of his life quick charged out of him.

    The risk of a malfunctioning gas pump killing you, though not zero, is pretty low.

    I’m not sure that I want to touch an 800v charging station. Anywhere. Ever.

    Full service please?

  19. The unavoidable fact is that EVs, and the infrastructure required, are not ready for market. So, the Psychopaths In Charge attempt to make the market ready for them. By lying to people. By stealing your money to subsidize them. By regulating the already quite marketable ICV out of the market. By convincing the gullible that we MUST switch to EVs or the world will melt down. By pretending that full conversion will work, without any infrastructure in place to supply power to a car few can afford.

    Full conversion will work, I suppose, because most of us won’t be driving anymore.

  20. 800V chargers. what is the cost? Both of the charger & getting 800V service?

    One thing I never see addressed is who pays for all this? Govt, private business, car companies?

    When one adds up all the complexities and time frames to do all the work necessary to roll out infrastructure that would make EVs a real viable alternative to IC, it is a pipe dream. It might happen, but it will not be for decades and a cost that is so prohibitive that only your tax dollars will make it work.

  21. I see people fast charging at our local Whole Foods and wonder what the heck they do to pass the time while they are charging….go shopping i guess but then what. Most of them do not sit in there car so it must really take some time! It just looks so dreary and boring…..especially when you are busy rushing past these folks thanking god you have a gas car.

  22. as more and more mainstream EV models role out, and more and more buy them, it’s going to be sooooooo much fun to watch them try and figure out their old normal travel life. hahahahha……….
    as always, there will be the 10-30% that will say ‘wow this is the best ever!’, and then the middle 30-50% that say ‘hmmmmm not working out like they said’, and the 10-30% ‘no f’n way’.

  23. Eric,

    When it comes to throughput at the gas pumps, you’re assuming that people vacate them as soon as they’re done. At the Wawa where I usually fuel, they don’t. Rather than vacate the pump when they’re done, they go in for coffee, lunch, etc. and leave their vehicles there. I can forgive a commercial truck, like a landscaper’s pickup and trailer, as there isn’t room for him to use a regular parking space. Plus, he not only has to fill up the truck; he has equipment and gas cans to fill also. What teas me off is some a’hole in a car who LEAVES it there! That’s right; even though the car owner can move to a parking space and free up a pump, they don’t. Even if you’re just talking about a straight gas station (i.e. no associated convenience store like Wawa or Sheetz), people also take time to pay and get money back when they’re done; this slows them down too. If you really want to get on and off a pump fast, you have to use a credit card. SO! I think that your throughput scenario at the gas pumps is a bit optimistic in some, if not many, instances.

    As for EVs and fast chargers, I know that Tesla is adding Supercharger bays all the time, so as to address the throughput issue. Also, all Teslas have 200+ mile range, even in the standard range versions. For example, the RWD only Model 3 has 267 miles of range; 80% of that is 214 miles. Yes, range can vary based on weather and terrain, but 200+ miles was more than enough for me on my recent FL road trip to go without stopping for a break. Ah, but you only have to use a charger on the road. If you’re in your local area, charging at home every night is usually sufficient; they don’t have to visit the pump at all. On cold rainy days, I wish I could pass up the pump! For me, the range and capability of modern EVs isn’t much of an issue.

    Let me amend that to say that that applies mostly to Teslas. Other EVs don’t have the capabilities or charging infrastructure that Teslas have. If you have an EV that isn’t a Tesla, then finding a functional fast charger can be an issue.

    What is an issue with EVs is cost; EVs cost a lot more than a comparable ICEV. Just look at the Nissan Versa compared to the Nissan Leaf. My Ford Focus cost about 1/3 of what a Tesla Model 3 costs. Now, the Teslarati would scoff at the notion of comparing my car to a Tesla Model 3, because my car isn’t a “luxury” car; it’s not marketed as such. That said, it has power windows, power door locks, cruise control, tilt/extended steering wheel, etc.; it has what were once the traditional accoutrements of luxury cars, so I don’t think it’s an inaccurate comparison. My Focus will do 75%-80% of what the Model 3 will do too, and it does so for about 1/3 the price. For me, it was a no-brainer to go with the Focus vs. the Tesla. The money I save will buy THOUSANDS of gallons of gas-even at today’s artificially inflated prices! By the time I went through all that gas, my Focus would be ready for the Great Junkyard in the Sky… 🙂

    If you want to knock EVs for safety, again, I have no problem with that. Even if the ROI/bang for the buck wasn’t an issue, safety is. My garage is integral to the house; it’s beneath my living room. If something catches fire in there, it’ll burn down the house along with it. Since Teslas have a nasty habit of spontaneously combusting (even while PARKED!), I’ll pass, TYVM. Even the EV cheering MSM organ of the Washington Post has featured articles about Teslas catching fire and burning down houses.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts…

    • Hi Mark,

      I agree – it’s a dick move to leave your car at the pump. I rarely see such dickish behavior in my area. But – even so – the point is that no one has to leave their car at the pump for for ten or 15 minutes or 45. But with an EV…

      As far as the range stuff: For city people, I agree – it’s not a huge issue. Though it is still an issue, unless you rarely or never go for longer trips. But for people who routinely drive 100 miles a day (me, check) it is most definitely is a huge one!

      The cost issue, though, is even “huger.” It is bizarre – to insane – to spend $35,000-plus to buy an EV such as a Leaf or Bolt when one can spend $15k or so on a small IC economy car that is functionally superior in ever way except quickness. And since when did “quickness” become relevant as a consideration in a (supposedly) practical/affordable car?

      • Here in Texas, at the Buc-ee’s chain of mega gas stations, the stores typically have pump wranglers reminding the customers not to leave their vehicles unattended.

        The big Buc-ee’s have 200 gas pumps, and, on a holiday weekend, every one will be full.

        One common sight at Buc-ee’s and a concern that I haven’t seen addressed is what happens when the big Ford truck starts rolling around towing trailers and the truck/trailer combo occupies two or more charging station spaces for an hour on a Saturday, say, before 4th of July.

        At Buc-ee’s, the truck/trailer is only an issue for a few minutes and the combination has to be *BIG* to occupy two pumps, but I haven’t seen as much thought put into the EV stations.

      • Eric,

        Unfortunately, I see the dick moves almost every time I fill up. In case disaster strikes, I fill up every couple of days with 3/4 tank left. I see these dick moves all the time.

      • I am way to cheap to spend 15 grand on a car..I am daily driving a 96 subaru that I paid 1000 for 10 years ago….on 100% gas it returns 32 mpg with all wheel drive…Take that tesla….

        • On a side note, years ago, gas pumps were actually approximately twice as fast as they are today.

          The pumps are definitely slower today.

    • On the off chance my preferred gas station is full, I just go to another. Or choose another day to fill up. I have that flexibility with an ICE vehicle.

    • I wouldn’t consider tesla a luxury car from an interior standpoint. I’ve been in an early model s, with the exception of a large ugly tablet in the dash the inside was spartan and bland. In fact i distinctly remember a safety “feature” that vibrated the car when you touched a line like you were rolling over a rumble strip. It was godamn annoying and virtually guaranteed to trip constantly on narrow new england roads. I really dislike working on fords but I’d take a focus as my daily before I’d step in another EV.

      • Hi Bitter,

        Yup; Teslas have a cheap, plasticky interior dominated by a large central touchscreen. That plus the cars themselves are cheaply made and cheaply put together.

      • In reviews they say the Tesla ride is bad and going over bumps it has a nasty vertical movement that will make you sea sick, buy an Audi or Mercedes EV, better engineering, and interior.

  24. Everyone knows come the long weekend the price of fuel goes up, how much you want to bet that will happen with electric charging stations also. It’s funny how they say that all vehicles sold by a certain date must be all electric but the thing is I see no signs of the massive amount of building new power plants and the rewiring of America to allow this to actually happen.

    • Yup, same here. Not seeing it. I live in a rural area where, although it’s expanding, it was built around the two-lane highway that was once sparsely populated scenario. The growing pains for anything new are very apparent. I’m thinking that the two fast chargers at the Harris Teeter ain’t gonna cut it! Or the two at the Target, etc, etc.

      And then, if you look at a major metropolitan area like San Diego (where I used to live), the streets are lined with cars that are quite a large distance from any electric outlet. Driveways in many of those densely populated neighborhoods are non-existent. It’s a freaking miracle if you can park *near* where you live in that scenario!

      This rushing in with the half-baked plans is just a pipe dream. The people doing it must be high… fully baked. And when they come down from it, it’s gonna be a nightmare. People are gonna be PISSED and it’s gonna be glorious to behold!

      • And what about apartment complexes? City where I live is mostly typical suburban SFR on ~7000-8000 sf lots, but we do have a couple of 4 story “stack-n-pack” apartment complexes on North Main.

        Of these, one has only a multistory parking garage for auto parking. Good luck wiring that so every parking space has a “fast charger” for an EV.

        Oh, right. I forgot. People who live in apartment complexes are supposed to take the bus locally, or Metrolink to Orange County. Naughty, naughty, owning your own auto.

  25. And that time is AT THE PUMP(charging). When traveling how often do you have a station on your right you can easily drive in to? This is especially true of interstate travel. Sometimes you can add 5-10 minutes of left turns, deceleration, acceleration, getting out of your vehicle, fooling around paying for your fuel, “Hey, Madge, this card reader is fubar, we gotta move.”, let alone going inside to pay with cash. Stopping 4 times to “fill” an EV vs one-time full fill stop for IC is ludicrous.

    Of course, arguing these points with EV acolytes is like arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin with members of other Religions.

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