The High Cost of Electronic Cars

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EVs are likely to be shorter-lived cars, this being a function of the fact that they are electronic cars. And because of that, they are even more expensive cars than they cost to buy.

Here’s why:

While it is true that an electric motor, as such, is a very simple thing (and one of the things often touted as an advantage electric cars have vs. a car with an engine, which has many moving parts) the electronics that control the motor (in an EV) are not simple. It is a foundational mistake to equate the electric motor in an electric car with the electric motor that spins a small appliance, such as a power drill. The latter has simple electronics; a speed controller – and that’s about all, besides the motor. An EV’s motor requires a computer controller which governs a myriad of operating parameters as well as the overall operation of the car, itself – and all of its myriad electronically controlled related and secondary systems, such as the drive-by-wire system, battery cooling (and heating) system as well as its charging system.

Modern combustion-engined cars have similar electronic systems, of course, that govern their myriad systems. But that is precisely why modern combustion-engined cars have become less reliable over time than the less-electronicized cars of the past and more disposable, as they age, because of the cost of replacing critical electronic controls without which the vehicle or vital systems will not operate relative to the depreciating value of the vehicle, itself.

EVs double down on that problem – by electronicizing everything. Even the heater (for the people).

And then there is the EV’s electric battery, itself – a hugely complex thing made of hundreds/thousands of individual cells, all of them a potential failure point (and fire source) and the whole thing certain to degrade in function over time the more it is used and thus the faster it will wear out, in term of its capacity to receive and retain full charge.

An analogy that works is a battery-powered electronic device such as an iPod. Anyone who has owned one of these things is aware that, after about 2-3 years of regular use, the iPod’s battery doesn’t hold as much charge as it did when it was new. And the iPod’s battery doesn’t have to move the iPod. This latter is not analogous – as regards the battery pack in an EV – which is massive precisely because it does have to move the thing, which places a massive load on the thing.

One of the great disingenuousnesses of the way EVs have been “covered” by the Poodle Press that pimps for EVs because that is what it is paid to do – or rather, because its “reporters” know they will not be paid or even hired in the first place if they don’t shill for “electrification” – is the equation of small electronic devices such as iPods with electric cars.

The Poodle Press will “report” on the advances made in powering these small devices, implying that similar advances are on the cusp of being made – soon! – as regards powering two-ton devices like electric cars. This “reporting” utterly ignores the fact that the battery packs in the latter have to move – not merely “power” – those two-ton devices. Up hills. At speed. For hours on end.

It is also comparatively inexpensive to replace a small electronic device’s waning battery – precisely because it is small.

An EV’s batter pack is not.

Which is precisely why it is so expensive. The proper analogy, vis-a-vis the batteries that power small electronic devices such as iPods is to imagine paying to replace thousands of them – in order for that one iPod to be capable of playing your music, again.

Even if you can afford to spend thousands on a new battery pack to power the waning one in your electronic car, the cost of doing so represents a massive increase in the total ownership cost of such a car, vis-a-vis a combustion-engined car.

You pay at least 30-40 percent more up front, for the electric car, itself. And then you pay a sum equivalent to 20-30 percent of its original sales price when it was new, when its battery pack gets old, for a new one. The total increase in cost is at least 50 percent more than the cost of owning a non-electronic car over the same 10-12 year period. And that doesn’t factor in the savings that can be had by continuing to own (and drive) the non-electric car for another 5 or even ten years longer, which is realistically feasible for non-electric cars because they last much longer than electric cars.

The average (non-electric) car currently in service is nearly twelve years old. These cars remain in service precisely because they are affordable to keep in service. It is true that every now and then they will need this or that. But they will never need the one thing all electric cars will inevitably need – that thing being a battery pack that costs 20-30 percent of the cost of the car, itself, when it was new when the electric car, itself, is only worth 20-30 percent of what it sold for, new.

Such a deal!

. . .

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39 COMMENTS

  1. So EVs are expensive? Well, let them cost even more:

    ‘GM is set to reveal later this summer a prototype of the car, named the Celestiq. The company has said the sedan will be Cadillac’s premier offering and custom-built at its engineering center near Detroit.

    ‘The auto maker intends to build fewer than 500 Celestiqs annually as a way to showcase its technology and generate buzz for Cadillac, the people said. Elements will include customized wood trim in the cabin and the latest version of GM’s hands-free assisted-driving system, called Ultra Cruise.

    ‘The Celestiq price tag could run well beyond $300,000 depending on features. The car is scheduled to go into production by late 2023, the people said.’

    Celestiq rhymes eerily with the Cadillac V-16, introduced in 1930 as the 1920s boom was already headed over the waterfall into Depression.

    Only the rich could afford V-16s (and Celestiqs). But the sales volume just isn’t enough to make up for collapsing sales of plebemobiles.

    Nice try, GM. And perfect timing too! /sarc

  2. A diesel engine converted to burn hydrogen makes more sense the electric motors….

    Cummins hydrogen engine offers more capability, lower cost over all-electric, way quicker refueling, twice the range……

    A Cummins diesel converted to burn hydrogen, burning hydrogen is zero emission, the waste left over from combustion is just water.

    Forget electric motors just use this engine. 10 minute refueling, 500 mile range. 500 hp.

    Compared to EV trucks:
    The latest Freightliner EV truck the eCascadia offers roughly 230 miles of range while Volvo’s newest VNR Electric EV truck provides up to 275 miles. Average charge times for either of those trucks from virtually dead to full charge will easily exceed an hour with more time needed for larger batteries. probably several hours for a full charge….
    these heavy EV trucks eat up batteries, so there will be an enormous battery replacement cost in no time, making the cost per mile driven far higher….

    Producing hydrogen is greener then using electricity from the 90% hydro carbon burning gas, coal, oil, burning power plants in the world where your green….hahaha…electricity comes from………

    https://www.ccjdigital.com/alternative-power/article/15292318/cummins-hydrogen-engine-offers-advantages-over-allelectric?fbclid=IwAR1o5KrzWXgAaCz_krYTQCzHNJ380EHFrF8gB1HRiv4qlrCM6dxON6DCajE

  3. Why are they pushing EV’s that get 20.8 mpg when there is a fuel shortage?

    Should be still selling these:

    the 2014 Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion diesel, is capable of a claimed 88.3 mpg imperial, or 73.5 mpg U.S….. 100 mile fuel consumption = 1.36 gallons

    An Ev is 25% efficient in turning original source of energy, petroleum in this example into mechanical energy to push the car down the road. (under not ideal conditions, like in very cold weather, it might be 12% efficient).

    Most electricity is generated burning hydrocarbons, how green is that?

    90% of electricity is generated by burning coal, gas and oil, 5% is nuclear, solar and wind turbines are a joke, there is a small amount of geothermal and hydro, depending on the location. In U.S. 40% is coal.
    Thermal efficiency of power plants using coal, petroleum, natural gas or nuclear fuel and converting it to electricity are around 33% efficiency, natural gas is around 40%. Then there is average 6% loss in transmission, then there is a 5% loss in the charger, another 5% loss in the inverter, the electric motor is 90% efficient so another 10% loss before turning the electricity into mechanical power at the wheels.
    33% – 6% – 5% – 5% – 10% = 25% efficiency for EV’s.
    (under not ideal conditions, like in very cold weather, it might be 12% efficient).

    NOTE: a diesel is 50% efficient….lol…

    34.7 kwh of electricity is equivalent to 1.02 gallons of gas

    what they hoped for:
    The target fuel economy EV manufacturers are trying to get is to get 3.6 mile range for every kwh used or using 27.77 kwh to go 100 miles

    So to end up with 27.77 kwh of electricity which is equivalent to .80 gallons of gas to push the EV 100 miles down the road 3.20 gallons of fuel were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station, remember net 25% efficiency. 100 miles using 3.20 gallons = 31.25 mpg,
    so their target is to get 31.25 mpg, that as pathetic and they will lie and say it is 120 mpg, because electricity comes out of a wall plug, not 1000 miles away at a coal powered power plant.

    what they are getting in the real world:
    What test drivers are actually getting driving EV’s in the real world is they are getting 2.4 miles of range for every kwh used or using 41.66 kwh to go 100 miles.

    So to end up with 41.66 kwh of electricity which is equivalent to 1.20 gallons of gas to push the EV 100 miles down the road 4.80 gallons of fuel were burnt to generate the electricity in the power station, remember net 25% efficiency. 100 miles using 4.80 gallons = 20.8 mpg,
    what they are actually getting is 20.8 mpg, but they will lie and say it is 120 mpg.

    VW diesel 100 mile fuel consumption = 1.36 gallons
    EV 100 mile fuel consumption = 4.80 gallons (back at the power station)

    so this VW diesel gets 3.5 X better fuel economy then the 20.8 mpg EV….so what do they do?….they ban the diesel and force you to buy the EV…..why?

    the double-speak involved is intensely characteristic of the reversal of reality practiced by satanists…..black is white….. up is down….bad is good….
    ice cars are bad….EV’s are good
    Demons invert/reverse all that they touch. The psychopath uses the same trick.

    • The globalists/leftists are pushing EV’s 24/7 through their bought and paid for bribed media, spending billions of dollars jamming EV’s down people’s throats, the lies are 20 feet deep, all disinformation/misinformation, it takes time and effort to dig through the bs and figure out the reality of the ice vehicle vs EV comparison. they are lying to everybody, typical leftists…..

  4. Hydrogen vs Battery comparison.

    Toyota was more interested in hydrogen fuel cell/electric tech (the advantage…. refuel in 3 minutes just like an ice vehicle, also no up to 1800 lb batteries like in a tesla, so makes more sense, it is the only electric technology that will work on big trucks), the problem is very few refueling stations yet.
    Toyota had a lease for their Mirai for $600.00 per month which included all the fuel, a great deal.

    Their new offering includes free fuel for 6 years, when they ban gas and diesel and electricity costs go up 10 or 20 times current rates, this might be a good backup…..free fuel.

    this is better than a battery EV, 3 minute refueling, no up to 1800 lb of batteries, free fuel (a friend has a tesla who uses a super charger at a mall, it costs almost as much as fueling an ice vehicle), if you charge at home the cost will keep increasing with electrical grid issues, no long charging waits, won’t burn your house down when recharging, no $22,000 battery dead after 10 years so car is worth zero after 10 years like a tesla.

    At the core of Mirai, hydrogen from the fuel tank and air entering from the intake grille meet in the Fuel Cell Stack. There, a chemical reaction involving the oxygen in the air and hydrogen creates electricity—powering Mirai. (electricity made in the car) In the end, the only by-product is water. zero emission.

    With a tesla the electricity is made (burning coal in some places) then transmitted 1000’s of miles at times, then you wait for hours to recharge, battery EV’s don’t work, they knew that 100 years ago.

    Tesla battery after 9 years 135,000 miles? battery dead can’t be used. replacement cost $22,000. residual value of car = zero

    Fuel cell lasts 5000 hr. x 40 mph = 200,000 miles, even then has lost only 30% of efficiency, so still can be used, as a used car. car still has residual value, plus it is a toyota.

    At end of life Toyota takes the fuel cell and recycles it, the up to 1800 lb lithium fire bomb tesla battery goes into the landfill, probably.

    Hydrogen fuel cells make more sense then battery EV’s, gas powered ice is way better, diesel powered ice is best.

    Hydrogen can be produced using a number of different processes. Thermochemical processes use heat and chemical reactions to release hydrogen from organic materials, such as fossil fuels and biomass, or from materials like water. Water (H2O) can also be split into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) using electrolysis or solar energy. Microorganisms such as bacteria and algae can produce hydrogen through biological processes.

    https://www.toyota.com/mirai/Toyota

  5. Hydrogen vs Battery comparison.

    Toyota was more interested in hydrogen fuel cell/electric tech (the advantage…. refuel in 3 minutes just like an ice vehicle, also no up to 1800 lb batteries like in a tesla, so makes more sense, it is the only electric technology that will work on big trucks), the problem is very few refueling stations yet.
    Toyota had a lease for their Mirai for $600.00 per month which included all the fuel, a great deal.

    Their new offering includes free fuel for 6 years, when they ban gas and diesel and electricity costs go up 10 or 20 times current rates, this might be a good backup…..free fuel.

    this is better than a battery EV, 3 minute refueling, no up to 1800 lb of batteries, free fuel (a friend has a tesla who uses a super charger at a mall, it costs almost as much as fueling an ice vehicle), if you charge at home the cost will keep increasing with electrical grid issues, no long charging waits, won’t burn your house down when recharging, no $22,000 battery dead after 10 years so car is worth zero after 10 years like a tesla.

    At the core of Mirai, hydrogen from the fuel tank and air entering from the intake grille meet in the Fuel Cell Stack. There, a chemical reaction involving the oxygen in the air and hydrogen creates electricity—powering Mirai. (electricity made in the car) In the end, the only by-product is water. zero emission.

    With a tesla the electricity is made (burning coal in some places) then transmitted 1000’s of miles at times, then you wait for hours to recharge, battery EV’s don’t work, they knew that 100 years ago.

    Tesla battery after 9 years 135,000 miles? battery dead can’t be used. replacement cost $22,000. residual value of car = zero

    Fuel cell lasts 5000 hr. x 40 mph = 200,000 miles, even then has lost only 30% of efficiency, so still can be used, as a used car. car still has residual value, plus it is a toyota.

    At end of life Toyota takes the fuel cell and recycles it, the up to 1800 lb lithium fire bomb tesla battery goes into the landfill, probably.

    Hydrogen fuel cells make more sense then battery EV’s, gas powered ice is way better, diesel powered ice is best.

    Hydrogen can be produced using a number of different processes. Thermochemical processes use heat and chemical reactions to release hydrogen from organic materials, such as fossil fuels and biomass, or from materials like water. Water (H2O) can also be split into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) using electrolysis or solar energy. Microorganisms such as bacteria and algae can produce hydrogen through biological processes.

    https://www.toyota.com/mirai/Toyota

  6. Hydrogen vs Battery comparison.

    Toyota was more interested in hydrogen fuel cell/electric tech (the advantage…. refuel in 3 minutes just like an ice vehicle, also no up to 1800 lb batteries like in a tesla, so makes more sense, it is the only electric technology that will work on big trucks), the problem is very few refueling stations yet.
    Toyota had a lease for their Mirai for $600.00 per month which included all the fuel, a great deal.

    Their new offering includes free fuel for 6 years, when they ban gas and diesel and electricity costs go up 10 or 20 times current rates, this might be a good backup…..free fuel.

    this is better than a battery EV, 3 minute refueling, no up to 1800 lb of batteries, free fuel (a friend has a tesla who uses a super charger at a mall, it costs almost as much as fueling an ice vehicle), if you charge at home the cost will keep increasing with electrical grid issues, no long charging waits, won’t burn your house down when recharging, no $22,000 battery dead after 10 years so car is worth zero after 10 years like a tesla.

    At the core of Mirai, hydrogen from the fuel tank and air entering from the intake grille meet in the Fuel Cell Stack. There, a chemical reaction involving the oxygen in the air and hydrogen creates electricity—powering Mirai. (electricity made in the car) In the end, the only by-product is water. zero emission.

    With a tesla the electricity is made (burning coal in some places) then transmitted 1000’s of miles at times, then you wait for hours to recharge, battery EV’s don’t work, they knew that 100 years ago.

    Tesla battery after 9 years 135,000 miles? battery dead can’t be used. replacement cost $22,000. residual value of car = zero

    Fuel cell lasts 5000 hr. x 40 mph = 200,000 miles, even then has lost only 30% of efficiency, so still can be used, as a used car. car still has residual value, plus it is a toyota.

    At end of life Toyota takes the fuel cell and recycles it, the up to 1800 lb lithium fire bomb tesla battery goes into the landfill, probably.

    Hydrogen fuel cells make more sense then battery EV’s, gas powered ice is way better, diesel powered ice is best.

    Hydrogen can be produced using a number of different processes. Thermochemical processes use heat and chemical reactions to release hydrogen from organic materials, such as fossil fuels and biomass, or from materials like water. Water (H2O) can also be split into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) using electrolysis or solar energy. Microorganisms such as bacteria and algae can produce hydrogen through biological processes.

    https://www.toyota.com/mirai/Toyota

  7. Ev’s with batteries is stupid………

    Hydrogen vs Battery comparison.

    Toyota was more interested in hydrogen fuel cell/electric tech (the advantage…. refuel in 3 minutes just like an ice vehicle, also no up to 1800 lb batteries like in a tesla, so makes more sense, it is the only electric technology that will work on big trucks), the problem is very few refueling stations yet.
    Toyota had a lease for their Mirai for $600.00 per month which included all the fuel, a great deal.

    Their new offering includes free fuel for 6 years, when they ban gas and diesel and electricity costs go up 10 or 20 times current rates, this might be a good backup…..free fuel.

    this is better than a battery EV, 3 minute refueling, no up to 1800 lb of batteries, free fuel (a friend has a tesla who uses a super charger at a mall, it costs almost as much as fueling an ice vehicle), if you charge at home the cost will keep increasing with electrical grid issues, no long charging waits, won’t burn your house down when recharging, no $22,000 battery dead after 10 years so car is worth zero after 10 years like a tesla.

    At the core of Mirai, hydrogen from the fuel tank and air entering from the intake grille meet in the Fuel Cell Stack. There, a chemical reaction involving the oxygen in the air and hydrogen creates electricity—powering Mirai. (electricity made in the car) In the end, the only by-product is water. zero emission.

    With a tesla the electricity is made (burning coal in some places) then transmitted 1000’s of miles at times, then you wait for hours to recharge, battery EV’s don’t work, they knew that 100 years ago.

    Tesla battery after 9 years 135,000 miles? battery dead can’t be used. replacement cost $22,000. residual value of car = zero

    Fuel cell lasts 5000 hr. x 40 mph = 200,000 miles, even then has lost only 30% of efficiency, so still can be used, as a used car. car still has residual value, plus it is a toyota.

    At end of life Toyota takes the fuel cell and recycles it, the up to 1800 lb lithium fire bomb tesla battery goes into the landfill, probably.

    Hydrogen fuel cells make more sense then battery EV’s, gas powered ice is way better, diesel powered ice is best.

    Hydrogen can be produced using a number of different processes. Thermochemical processes use heat and chemical reactions to release hydrogen from organic materials, such as fossil fuels and biomass, or from materials like water. Water (H2O) can also be split into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) using electrolysis or solar energy. Microorganisms such as bacteria and algae can produce hydrogen through biological processes.

    https://www.toyota.com/mirai/Toyota

  8. EVs other than Teslas might well be disposable if the battery pack can’t be replaced at a reasonable price.

    Of course, one never knows what 3rd parties might come up with…you can get a refurbished Prius battery installed for around $1,500.

  9. Have a heart, Eric is appreciative of those who donate, with an income of 15,000 dollars each month, your sister’s buddy could easily donate about 2,000 dollars to keep Eric’s website alive.

    Please be so kind and do so as soon as you can, like now. Do the right thing and don’t take advantage of others and their good will.

    Send a grand from your 9500 bucks, you can do it, since you are able to cite such success, share it, the least you can do.

    Don’t you tire of being so stupid?

  10. How many of those older first-generation Honda hybrids do you see running around? I think I’ve seen more Austin Healy 3000’s than those on the road.

    I’ve heard the older generation Toyota Pruis if the generator goes out, it is a tear down job to get access to replace. Big money on labor to repair. We’ll see those going off the road shortly.

    • Hans,
      From what I understand the original honda IMA system is pretty reliable. Unfortunately all the original hybrid batteries died years before the current car bubble so they weren’t worth replacing and got sent to the junker. I keep an eye out locally for a first gen insight in need of a battery for cheap since they can easily hit 60 or 70 MPG and have a full aluminum body. They might perform even better with a modern LFP battery.
      You’re right about the toyota hybrid transaxle though. The motor/generators in those are necessary to make the eCVT function. If the windings or inverter burn out the car doesn’t go on gas or electric or doesn’t charge. I don’t know about the 1st gen prius but i know cabbies swear by the later years, easily racking up half a million trouble free miles. If you drive a ton a toyota or honda hybrid is a really good investment. If your car sits or does short trips might as well stay with a basic IC vehicle.

  11. ‘One of the great disingenuousnesses of the way EVs have been “covered” by the Poodle Press.’ — eric

    Case in point, the Gannett network consisting of flagship USA Today and dozens of local papers, all using an identical, dysfunctional website format, and all afflicted with an identical, gay liberal Democrat editorial slant.

    Automotive articles all convey that EVs are the coming thing, and ICEs are headed for sunsetting. This is a political statement, now that all mainstream journalism is advocacy journalism.

    One Gannett automotive writer clearly doesn’t know the difference between volts and kilowatts, when it comes to charging stations.

    But boy, does he have an EV deal for you!

    As ol’ P T Barnum used to say, “This way to the egress, folks!

  12. Cars are targeted for polluting but are only a very small percentage of the problem

    19:19 in video, dirty solar and wind power

    He says car enthusiasts aren’t militant so get pushed around.
    Climate change activists are militant.

    dirty ev’s are discussed

    The lowest carbon footprint car? Get a five year old ice car and drive it till it dies, save the planet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sytWLB4-W-M

    • Militant activists (used to, anyway) get arrested and sent to jail. For being militant.

      Most people outgrow the “do what I want or I’ll break your toys” phase.

  13. Electric cars have to cost less and not self-immolate, you won’t ever feel safe in one, imo.

    Thermal runaways in EV’s have been disastrous.

    I drove 100 miles, used 6 gallons of gasoline. 17.5 miles per gallon, close enough. 29 USD cost to drive one hundred miles. When premium is in the tank, it is 21 mpg, use premium gas, it does cost more, there is no alcohol in the gas, better mileage will save in the long run. 2.4 gallons of gas used to travel 50 miles. 5 x 5.50 USD is 27.50 USD, you spend less using premium.

    The farmhouse is not as active, water is on and livable, the garden is more than 50 percent planted. It is impossible to just plant seed in the ground and expect desired results, doesn’t work like that. You seed in a greenhouse, the seedlings grow to transplant size, voila, instant garden. Carrots, cucumbers, bunching onions, green beans are seeded as well as the zucchini.
    Seeded some sweet corn this year, best eating sweet corn is mid-September. I listened to a sweet corn grower talk about how many different herbicides used on the corn, you probably wouldn’t eat it. In the past, sweet corn in the garden meant pheasant going in the patch and munching on sweet corn. If raccoons are around, set a live trap and leave a raccoon to starve, kind of works to keep raccoons at bay. If raccoons trap a dog in water, the dog might not make it out alive. Raccoons are ruthless, have no mercy, they have none.

    There is electricity provided by giant batteries called power plants, coal is stored energy from the sun, it has uses, can heat your home, coal can be used to generate electricity. Coal is the original solar battery, all it really is. Gotta haul some ashes, no big deal. There are trace elements in coal, one trace element in coal is uranium, which is used to harness energy, one is uranium, nuclear power is purdy darn cool, cleanest electricity there is. Coal is a uraniferous solid, contains uranium. The Carboniferous Period formed trillions of tons of coal. Solar activity makes for an existence on earth, simple stuff.

    Tore down and burned an old useless building, burned it all to a pile of ashes. Haul them away, you gotta shovel the ashes from the pickup bed, unfortunately, that’s what happens. You spray water on the fire to control the burn.

    Hauling ash is like hauling manure, ash and manure don’t move on their own, you have to make them move by shoveling it. Lifted a grain box full of sheep manure one time 40 years ago, didn’t slide off the floor of the box. It was a long four hours of shoveling 300 bushels of sheep manure. Best thing to do is to drink some beer. The worst thing you can do on a hot day when working the farm is to eat a heavy meal of mashed potatoes, roast pork, and pumpkin pie for dessert. Advice from an old country doctor from way back when, priceless.

    You need fuel vaporized inside cylinders in the engine of the truck. The ignition starts in the center of the chamber, lots of power. The truck will just go, even with copious amounts of sheep manure.

    An electric truck is not going to haul 15,000 pounds of sheep manure anywhere. Don’t need to be a rocket surgeon to know that.

  14. Your government is pushing EV’s? Why?

    China has infiltrated all levels of governments, taken control, (check out the leftist/communist takeover), your politicians bought off, paid to push the EV agenda.

    Anybody pushing EV’s is a paid ccp shill.

    Who benefits the most from the EV vehicle conversion? china does.

    All the most important components in the new EV’s are all made in china. Then you are dependent on china for replacement parts, etc., in effect they take over the whole vehicle supply chain. Vehicle production then centralized in China.

    in this video they talk about the chinese taking over the electric car market, they are starting to export their EV’s worldwide, their EV’s are supposed to be advanced and cheap

    …… in another video a lawyer says the chinese are taking over the german car manufacturers,

    at this rate everyone will be driving a chinese car soon, a lot of electronics in your car made there already…….

    no wonder tesla moved a lot of production to china…

    the chinese make most of the chips, maybe the shortage was to help their EV launch….

    Solar panels:
    It is just sinking in in Brussels (and the US) that solar panels –besides being very un-green to make– are made in China; which is where most rare earths are processed; and most of the mineral supply-chains for electric vehicles lead there, with existing supply sewn up.

    chinese shill pushing solar panels too……

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jclSYJb8oa0

  15. Lots of problems with EV’s

    Worldwide 80% of electricity is produced by oil, gas and coal. electric cars aren’t zero emission they are remote emission. In China most teslas are coal powered. In the U.S. 40% are coal powered.

    The new gas powered cars run so clean they have very very low emissions, very close to zero like .00001% contaminants. The exhaust coming out of a modern diesel is cleaner then the air in a big city.

    The emissions at the power plant are far higher then what comes out of the exhaust pipe of a modern ics vehicle. ICE engines will be banned because they are not zero emission, .00001% contaminants is too high, this is insanity.

    EV’s pollute more
    NOTE: The biggest pollutant emitted from new cars because they have so low emissions are from tires wearing out while driving, tire particles.
    ATTENTION: Electric cars weigh 30% more than gas powered cars so have higher tire wear, so EV’s pollute more.

    Below 90% charge EV performance keeps dropping, at 10% charge it is down quite a bit. ICE cars on a quarter tank are quicker because they got lighter.

    EV highway driving consumption
    The advertised range that many manufacturers brag about is the average or city driving figure. However, the highway range is much smaller, sometimes up to 50 percent less.

    operating Li-ion batteries outside the safety zone (i.e. 20%–80%) state of charge, a loss in conductivity can be observed
    You can only use 60% of the advertised range, in cold weather subtract up to 50% more, so what is the real world range?

    ATTENTION: Only 5% of electric car lithium fire bomb batteries are recycled, a huge pollution problem.

    Green EV? The only sort of green electric cars, are the ones that use lead acid batteries, 98% of lead acid batteries are recycled, only 5% of lithium batteries are recycled. One small business converted small pickup trucks to electric power using lead acid batteries, backyard mechanics would convert ice cars with broken engines to electric power, if a 60 mile range was adequate they worked.

    In their entire life cycle including manufacturing, electric cars in total pollute far more than gas powered cars, people don’t seem to understand that the vast majority of a car’s carbon footprint is made during manufacture and scrapping. Running the car, not so much. EV’s pollute far more,

    Most electric cars are designed as performance cars so they use far more energy and resources than they should. (the government regulations don’t allow the manufacture of small light electric cars which would make more sense, china does).

    Recharging costs:
    The grid can’t handle large numbers of electric cars recharging, if all cars are electric the grid capacity has to be increased 500%. There is already power shortages, blackouts in many countries with electricity costs rapidly rising, when electricity prices go up 400% your old ice vehicle will look cheap to run.

    Open pit lithium mining for battery manufacture, often done with child slave labour, is worse then tar sands mining.

    The biggest problem…….EV fires:
    Enormous amounts of water are required: tactically, this may mean using a master stream, 2½-inch or multiple 1¾-inch fire lines, to suppress and cool the fire. Vehicle fires don’t typically call for surround-and-drown tactics, but these are not typical vehicle fires. so you need multiple fire trucks to put out the fire, this is insanity.

    One example: the flames on the Tesla were extinguished, it reignited again. Firefighters began hosing it down with copious amounts of water, up to 200 gallons per minute, but “that did not extinguish the flames,” according to the NTSB. At approximately 9:13 p.m., nearly three hours after the first alarm was received, firefighters had to pour out more than 600 gallons of water per minute. In the end the agency used 20,000 gallons of water. these should be banned from the road…..

    Then the fire still isn’t put out……..Batteries can be expected to reignite after being put out because they still have stored energy. 15 hours later it catches fire again…
    “Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish”….. the vehicle must be parked under “quarantine” for 48 hours, so that no new fire can break out.
    Batteries are difficult to extinguish, and they can burst into flames again several hours later –ATTENTION: in some cases, right up to a week later

    ATTENTION: EV’s can’t replace ICV’s because………global capacity for the materials for EV batteries can’t replace even 3% of fossil fuel vehicles.

    Electric cars are expensive, they are only for the rich, but they are heavily subsidized by the government with taxpayer’s money, including taxes from the poor, the poor subsidizing the rich. the poor can walk. electric cars, toys for the rich.

    NOTE: The first people to buy electric cars were the most sold on the idea, the biggest believers, 20% of them are switching back to ice powered cars because of the inconvenience factor, the charging time hassle.

    Another problem EV shares with new ice powered vehicles: Electronic components have a limited life, even if you do not use them. It’s the nature of the P-N junction that forms a transistor.

    During the first three months of ownership, EVs were 2.3 times as expensive to service as gasoline-powered cars. At the 12-month mark, repair costs were about 1.6 times what owners of gas-powered cars paid.
    It’s Not Parts. It’s Labor

    Electric cars depreciate over two times faster than their internal combustion engine counterparts, a serious black mark when it comes to tallying up your actual yearly cost to run your vehicle!

    So the new electric vehicles like the new computerized ice vehicles will have a limited lifespan, when these electronics fail the car will be scrap, too expensive to fix, more recycling and waste. Only buy cars with no computers.

    A 1913 Bugatti type 22 is 108 years old and daily driven. A Tesla is scrap after 10 years.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVl3cEkSSo0

    But mechanical systems, like Jay Leno’s 1832 steam engine can last for centuries, get a steam powered car, they run on wood.
    Steam powered cars have the same advantage as electric cars, instant torque.
    A new steam engine is over 50% efficient, an EV is 25% efficient, if it is very cold out it is 12% efficient.

    • Hydrogen vs Battery comparison.

      Toyota was more interested in hydrogen fuel cell/electric tech (the advantage…. refuel in 3 minutes just like an ice vehicle, also no up to 1800 lb batteries like in a tesla, so makes more sense, it is the only electric technology that will work on big trucks), the problem is very few refueling stations yet.
      Toyota had a lease for their Mirai for $600.00 per month which included all the fuel, a great deal.

      Their new offering includes free fuel for 6 years, when they ban gas and diesel and electricity costs go up 10 or 20 times current rates, this might be a good backup…..free fuel.

      this is better than a battery EV, 3 minute refueling, no up to 1800 lb of batteries, free fuel (a friend has a tesla who uses a super charger at a mall, it costs almost as much as fueling an ice vehicle), if you charge at home the cost will keep increasing with electrical grid issues, no long charging waits, won’t burn your house down when recharging, no $22,000 battery dead after 10 years so car is worth zero after 10 years like a tesla.

      At the core of Mirai, hydrogen from the fuel tank and air entering from the intake grille meet in the Fuel Cell Stack. There, a chemical reaction involving the oxygen in the air and hydrogen creates electricity—powering Mirai. (electricity made in the car) In the end, the only by-product is water. zero emission.

      With a tesla the electricity is made (burning coal in some places) then transmitted 1000’s of miles at times, then you wait for hours to recharge, battery EV’s don’t work, they knew that 100 years ago.

      Tesla battery after 9 years 135,000 miles? battery dead can’t be used. replacement cost $22,000. residual value of car = zero

      Fuel cell lasts 5000 hr. x 40 mph = 200,000 miles, even then has lost only 30% of efficiency, so still can be used, as a used car. car still has residual value, plus it is a toyota.

      At end of life Toyota takes the fuel cell and recycles it, the up to 1800 lb lithium fire bomb tesla battery goes into the landfill, probably.

      Hydrogen fuel cells make more sense then battery EV’s, gas powered ice is way better, diesel powered ice is best.

      Hydrogen can be produced using a number of different processes. Thermochemical processes use heat and chemical reactions to release hydrogen from organic materials, such as fossil fuels and biomass, or from materials like water. Water (H2O) can also be split into hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) using electrolysis or solar energy. Microorganisms such as bacteria and algae can produce hydrogen through biological processes.

      https://www.toyota.com/mirai/Toyota

  16. Just think, if it weren’t for uncle scam you could buy a brand new car like the (Maruti) Suzuki Alto for around $4,000! 51MPG, 5 speed manual trans, abs, driver and passenger airbags. Granted it’s basically a kei car but I’d love to have one as a dirt cheap runabout when I don’t need the truck. Hell, it gets just about as good gas mileage and sells for LESS than what I bought my Suzuki MOTORCYCLE for. I bet maintenance and tires pencil out cheaper than the motorcycle as well. F*ck you and the bag of dicks you suck government. Thanks for keeping us all on this absurd hampster wheel. It can’t crash and burn soon enough.

  17. The buying of the “media,” (more like propagandists) has been the most sickening spectacle of this entire debacle. There’s no way that anyone who knew the facts would support supplanting the perfectly reliable and awesome ICE for one of those glorified, soulless golf carts.

    I’ve said that I believe the EV push is designed to get people to give up cars, because no middle-class person can afford these shitboxes and there’s no way the grid, which is getting overworked during a normal, seasonal heat wave, could handle all of these cars charging nightly.

    As I’ve said before, our betters want us packed into awful, diverse, crime-ridden cities and distracted with video games, porn and sportsball eating bugs and drinking soy milk while they live it up eating beef and flying around on their private jets.

    We’ve got an anti-President who wasn’t elected, but ushered into his office by a disconnected wave of fraud in major metros.

    We’ve got an antipope in charge of the Catholic Church because the conclave that put him on the throne of St. Peter was illegitimate since since Pope Benedict didn’t properly resign the Petrine office.

    Our pop “music” is done on software called ProTools and autotune allows the most tuneless trollops to become multi-millionaires and later yacht girl plaything whores for Saudi princes.

    Our movies are filled with CGI hocus pocus and jam the cultural marxist narrative of civilization-destroying lunacy into every narrative.

    Now we’re going to have fake cars that need 30 minutes to “rapid” charge, have a range half that of a real ICE car and wear out after 10 years of use.

  18. Electrolytic capacitors dry out and short out. Then the smoke comes out.

    Push too much current through a transformor or motor winding and the insulation will break down. Then the smoke comes out.

    Accidentally short across battery terminals leads to impromptu welding and then the smoke comes out.

    Corrosion on a high current cable or connector will raise resistance and produce heat. Heat will break down insulation and can melt solder. Then the smoke comes out.

    People think solid state means nothing moves. There are moving elecromagnetic fields. Oh they aren’t like a driveshaft, but those angry pixies that make the car go plaid can really screw things up if they’re not properly tamed. Even after repairing/replacing the failed part, the rest of the circuit might be compromised.

    • By design I’m afraid. ReadyKilowatt is correct. We sell high end variable speed equipment that use capacitors and the average life of ‘average’ units is 7-10 years. Of course our brand goes 15-20 yrs. But capacitors are consumable. Hell, everything is consumable, and “then the smoke comes out” Made me laugh RK.

      • Chris I’ll bet you don’t run your ESCs in 95ºF with the Sun beating down, over our nation’s potholed highways, for 4 hours non stop… then plug in a 400A DC charging cable and do the same thing for another 4 hours.

        • Nope, your right on again. inside HVAC controlled rooms or enclosures. Sometime we run them at ambient which could be 95 degrees, but that’s maybe 5% of their life. zero vibration, incoming power is always fairly stable.
          I’ve said before, but I think the tipping moment for a lot of believers is going to be the EV Truck. Coming very soon.

        • I like that. Partial ME here (half biz, half ME stuff), we didn’t hang out with the much smarter EE’s, plus you guys were always studying. 🙂

  19. Those few who can afford to put a 20k$ replacement battery into an older electric car just won’t.

    Full stop.

    Another awful thing are these electric mountain bikes now tearing up the trails around here. Good news is I’ve see a few fail in catastrophic fashion and more than a few just…. stop. The maintenance on these rigs subject to vibration, direct impact from crashes, submersion, mud, dust, and just general abuse after a few thousand miles will be very interesting. I haven’t seen any catch fire yet… Waiting for that one eagerly.

    • Your not kidding David. e-bikes are raging. We’ll see what happens, but my guess is a lot are going to learn what proprietary and non-proprietary means. Pretty sure they are all or most are proprietary at this time, but not positive, haven’t looked into it.
      Probably smart to ‘shop’ replacement battery cost up-front before one buys their $3-7K E-bike.

      • Chris,

        As I said below, I’ve built a couple e-bikes from kits. You can have a whole 1000W bike for about $600-700 if you’re a little resourceful. The battery can be $200-$300 or so, depending on range, and should last many years, if care is taken.

    • Hey David,

      I’ve ridden electric bikes and can’t wait to build my next one. They’re lots of fun and require much less maintenance and produce less vibration, smoke and noise than the comparable other option, which is the little 2-cycle engine kits people also put on bikes. (I have a broken one of those also sitting in my yard)

      Cars are, of course, a different matter.

      • Hi BaDnOn,

        I’ve ridden a few electric scooters; they’re not bad for urban-suburban use and in some ways, very good. It’s handy to be able to stop (and park one) practically anywhere, without needing to look for a spot. The range is also usually adequate for knocking around town and they can generally handle road speeds – keep up comfortably with traffic – up to about 45 MPH. Step-throughs are also easier to operate than motorcycles, which opens up this option to people who may not want to or be comfortable handling a motorcycle.

        • Eric,

          Yes, those scooters look like a blast, and also look very convenient, though I’ve yet to try one.

          I sent my dad a 1000W bicycle kit for his birthday, and he’s loving it now. Great for running his dog, as well as practical uses, such as riding back from the auto shop after he’s dropped of his car (is a Nissan Cube a car?).

          • I agree E-bikes are very cool and it gets us out-of-shape people out and doing good things.
            I used to go mountain biking w friends who were all very good (but I beat them on a dirtbike, hehe), and I thought I was going to have a heart attack many times during the climbs. I have been considering getting one, but haven’t yet. At least I should be able to hang with them and dial assist down as/if I get better?

      • BaDnOn,
        I’ve “built” a few friction drive kits. The type with the rack over the rear wheel that pushes a knurled roller onto the tire. I used japanese 2 and 4 stroke 40cc motors on them. Very little vibes and not very loud compared to the china girl kits. Very reliable too. They’re range limited to how sore your ass gets if you carry a quart of extra fuel. They’re dead simple to install and care for, highly recommended if you want some cheap backup transportation on standby. A 5 gallon can of gas will last you damn near forever on a 40cc 4 stroke.

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