Killer Teslas

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Why is it that “speed” (and “guns”) “kill” but Teslas don’t?

Even though Teslas actually do.

No gun ever killed anyone. It took a person to do that. Speed never did, either. Rather, it was the impact with the deceased that did, caused by the loss-of-control of the vehicle – which can and does happen at any speed.

But Teslas actually do kill people. Two of them, just recently. In just one month. The first on July 7. The second a couple of weeks later, on the 24th. Both were motorcyclists. Each was struck from behind by a marauding Tesla driven by itself. Its driver asleep at the wheel – because that’s what Tesla’s “self-driving” technology encourages them to do. If you can’t fall asleep at the wheel in a “self-driving” car, why bother with a “self-driving car”? That would be like buying a boat that’s not safe to float.

Well, the two bikers are now asleep, too. Permanently.

If Teslas were guns, there would be calls to ban them. And these calls would be justified, since – unlike guns – Teslas not only have killed but will kill, again. How many is the only debatable point.

It is an inevitability of the technology – and the psychology.

The technology is fallible, first of all. Teslas use cameras to “see” the road ahead and programming to interpret what they see. The car then “auto-pilots” accordingly. But the cameras sometimes don’t see things – like motorcycles (as well as other things) – and the programming doesn’t interpret the scene accurately. When that happens, the car “auto-pilots” itself into things, such as motorcycles – and other things that happen to be in its path.

Of course, human eyes – and “programming” – are fallible, too. But humans have two things “self-driving” technology lacks. One is judgment – as opposed to programming. The difference is important. Programming is nothing more than a limited set of parameters built into a system. When programming encounters a scenario it wasn’t programmed to deal with – or which flummoxes its programming – you get what happened to the two now-dead motorcyclists.

Judgment, on the other hand, is essentially limitless. There is interpretive intelligence behind a pair of human eyes. The capacity to not merely see what’s ahead but to adjust to what’s ahead – to new variables – in a way that transcends mere programming.

The other is moral agency – i.e., personal responsibility for what they (us humans) do. Such as driving their cars into things – and other people. It operates as an incentive to humans – most of them – to avoid driving into things (and other humans).

But Teslas facilitate the evaporation-dissipation of moral agency. It is the whole point of this “self-driving” business. Which is to not be responsible for driving the car. Tesla plays on this desire by styling its technology as “auto-pilot.” It is not styled “pilot-assistance” – or some such (as many other car manufacturers do style their systems). The appeal – as regards Teslas – is not having to “pilot” (that is, drive) the car. To be able to go to sleep behind the wheel – which numerous Tesla “pilots” have been video-recorded doing. At the very least, to be able to not have to watch the road as a driver would.

Of course, Tesla (and other manufacturers) legalese their way around this liability problem by advising “pilots” to always be “ready to intervene.” But this is deliberately fatuous, for the reasons already elaborated. Either the car “self drives” – or you are responsible driving it.

At all times. 

Tesla puts the “pilot” in the lose-lose position of all-but-telling them that the car “self drives” and then absolving itself of legal liability when its cars “self-drive” themselves into things – and people, like the two now-dead motorcyclists.


“All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, your car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigating urban streets, complex intersections and freeways.”

Sounds like an invitation to take a nap.

Interestingly, “self-driving” technology could be safer – i.e., less likely to “pilot” itself into things. The problem is that such technology – LIDAR rather than cameras – is expensive. And Tesla’s “self-driving” EeeeeeeeeeVeeeeees are already very expensive. The Model 3 which killed one of the bikers is a $50,000 car already. EeeeeeeeeVeeeee or not, there is an inherently limited market for such cars, because there are only so many people who can afford to buy a $50,000 car. It’s why there are only so many BMW 5-Series and Mercedes E-Class cars on the road. And even fewer BMW 7-Series and Mercedes S-Class cars on the road.

But Tesla wants to sell as many EeeeeeeeVeeeees as possible, so it cuts costs where possible. As by using a camera-based rather than LIDAR-based system. And – very interestingly – getting rid of the radar sensors it used to use as part of its “self-driving” technology. These were capable of detecting objects in the vehicle’s path – and slowing (or stopping) the car, so as to avoid “self-driving” into them. But the problem with radar is that it cannot distinguish between something that warrants slowing or stopping – such as an object in the road – and something adjacent to or above the road, such as an overpass.

Result? With the “pilot” asleep at the wheel, the car decides to slow – or stop – for no good reason, waking up the driver and possibly causing the pilot of the car behind the “self-driving” (and suddenly braking) Tesla to drive into the Tesla.

So, radar had to go. And LIDAR never went.

This speaks to Tesla’s motives- which are to sell cars and make as much money doing so as possible.

No matter how many things – and people – “self-driving” Teslas run into.

. . .

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  1. The roads will get more dangerous…..

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration on Thursday finalized a rule that will allow cars devoid of a steering wheel and pedals to meet safety standards.

    The rule updates the occupant protection Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards to account for fully automated vehicles, paving the way for companies to sell or offer as a service vehicles without manual controls.

    Meanwhile………..tesla self driving tech…

    A cheap, make shift, cobbled together, binder twine and duct tape solution…lol

    They took a sensor package designed for lane correction and expanded it,
    ATTENTION: against the advice of the company that provided the sensor package, to full automated driving.

    The AI is not yet good enough to handle all the random scenarios.
    We’re a long way off from FSD that Tesla is luring people in with.

    How to get legal deniability…

    tesla self driving

    Tesla has to recall 830,000 cars after a NHTSA investigation.

    ATTENTION: Tesla is still under investigation for a small programming bit whereby the auto pilot is turned off a second before any impact.

    This apparently gives them legal deniability that said impacts were the result of auto drive feature.

    from the comments section

    Utter reckless purchased government insanity. There are pilots in jet passenger aircraft for a common sense reason even with all the advanced computer flight capability.
    More leftist legislation toward insanity.

  2. California’s Department of Motor Vehicles has had it up to here with Tesla’s “full self-driving” claims. In fact, the DMV is so fed up that the company may no longer be allowed to sell its cars within the state.

    tesla fits in with their CO2 fake science narrative so any problems will be ignored…lol

    On July 28, the DMV’s chief of industry services Ailene Short filed a complaint against Tesla, alleging that the company deliberately used misleading language in marketing Tesla’s “Full Self-Driving” and “Autopilot” features. The complaint points to the names of the features themselves, as well as the descriptions of what the features should enable Tesla cars to do, as “untrue or misleading, and not based on facts.”

  3. 25 Problems With Tesla Nobody Talks About

    insurance premiums are high for these vehicles.

    Tesla recommends drivers invest in their maintenance plans that include a thorough inspection of the vehicle every 12,000 miles. The prices vary based on the year and model of the car, as well as which specific plan the driver chooses, but standalone inspections range anywhere from $475 to $750 per visit (not including repairs). A four-year maintenance plan is around $2,500.

    A few new Tesla owners have experienced problems with the steering wheel locking up while turning

    There is a defect in their partial self driving system, sometimes they just lock the brakes up because the system thought it saw something.

    Tesla’s can sometimes be uncharted territory for mechanics—this is a relatively new technology, after all—so it may take several days, and sometimes even weeks, before owners get to see their cars again. What’s worse is that many of these technical difficulties aren’t fully resolved during the first visit

    the emergency handle is near where a door handle normally would be, but if it’s pulled too often it can and will crack the window.

    owners have been extremely let down to find that their overpriced electric vehicle has scratches all over their car and bulges in the windshield.

    the price to insure a Tesla tends to be more than the average vehicle.

    Someone drove one at 10 tenths on the race track, on the straights the abs worked, when it went over a bump the brakes locked up and it crashed backwards off the track and it used 80 miles of range in 8 miles, what happens if you drive fast?
    You need someone like Colin Chapman, who was an English design engineer, inventor, and builder in the automotive industry, to build cars, Musk studied ecomomics and was into software, Tesla is all about trick software..

    Another problem with teslas, they are poorly engineered, there is a very unsettling verticle movement when driving down the road at speed where there is bumps, this gives people motion sickness, they should come with aircraft type barf bags.

    Another problem, they are unstable, all over the road at high speed and the brakes are horrible. The residual value of a tesla after 10 years is zero, because that battery is dead .

    Tesla’s autopilot cannot detect stationary vehicles, so if you rely heavily on this feature then you may be in for a rude awakening. You could yourself slamming into a non-moving vehicle.

    Tesla has been accused of having a fatality rate that’s more than triple what you see in luxury vehicles.

    As you may now well know, Tesla drivers are much more likely to get into an accident than other vehicles. Though Elon Musk doesn’t want you to know about this little fact,

    There’s a common problem with Teslas experiencing rattling in several areas of the cars. Owners have taken their cars to service centers numerous times for this issue but a very rare few have seen the annoyance resolved

  4. EV’s with lithium fire bomb batteries are very dangerous…..

    Lithium-ion batteries may suffer thermal runaway and cell rupture if overheated or overcharged, and in extreme cases this can lead to combustion. When handled improperly, or if manufactured defectively, some rechargeable batteries can experience thermal runaway resulting in overheating.

    Sealed cells will sometimes explode violently if safety vents are overwhelmed or nonfunctional.

    The difference with EV car fires is the use of high voltage lithium-ion batteries which can short and break down and spontaneously combust, and also that lithium-ion fires are difficult to extinguish and produce toxic smoke

    Reports of exploding cellphones have been published in newspapers. In 2006, batteries from Apple, HP, Toshiba, Lenovo, Dell and other notebook manufacturers were recalled because of fire and explosions.

    EV fires
    a fire broke out on the vehicle deck of the MS Pearl of Scandinavia on its way from Oslo to Copenhagen.
    It was determined that the cause of the fire was a short circuit in the plug of an extension cord used to charge a rebuilt Nissan Qashqai, converted into a battery electric vehicle

    A Zotye M300 EV operating as a taxicab caught fire in Hangzhou, China, in April 2011.
    Due to the incident, the city authorities decided to halt all electric taxis on safety concerns,
    The city’s official investigation team found the cause of the fire was the car’s defective battery pack due to lack of quality control during manufacturing.

    Electrek had compiled a list of 18 battery-related Chevrolet Bolt fires, and one possible-battery related fire.[31] The frequent fires resulted in a recall of about 110,000 Chevrolet Bolt and Bolt EUV EVs from the 2017 through 2022 model years.[32]
    the company has started buying back some Bolts. Moreover, GM recommended that Bolt owners park their cars outside and at least 50 feet away from other vehicles.

    Chevrolet Volt
    As a result of a crash-tested Chevrolet Volt that caught fire in June 2011 three weeks after the testing, two of the three tests resulted in thermal events, including fire.

    Fisker Karma
    Fisker Karma plug-in hybrid.
    In December 2011, Fisker Automotive recalled the first 239 Karmas delivered to the U.S. due to a risk of battery fire caused by coolant leak….
    a Fisker Karma was involved in a home fire that also burnt two other cars in Fort Bend County, Texas. The chief fire investigator said the Karma was the origin of the fire that spread to the house
    A second fire incident took place in August 2012 when a Karma caught fire while stopped at a parking lot

    BYD e6
    In May 2012, after a Nissan GTR crashed into a BYD e6 taxi in Shenzhen, China, the electric car caught fire after hitting a tree killing all three occupants

    a ByteDance’s automotive media in China, performed a crash test of BYD Han EV versus Arcfox Alpha-S.
    NOTE: Having been parked for 48 hours after the test, only the Han EV caught fire and burned to the ground.

    On June 15, 2022, a BYD Han EV caught fire on a road in Xaysetha district, Vientiane, Laos

    a BYD Tang DM-i (plug-in hybrid) caught fire on a flatbed tow truck, on a road in mainland China

    a BYD Qin Pro EV caught fire at a charging station in Shenzhen, China

    Dodge Ram 1500 Plug-in Hybrid demonstrator
    In September 2012 Chrysler temporarily suspended a demonstration program that was conducting with 109 Dodge Ram 1500 Plug-in Hybrids and 23 Chrysler Town & Country plug-in hybrids. All units deployed in the program were recalled due to damage sustained by three separate pickup trucks when their 12.9 kWh battery packs overheated.

    EV caught fire under water
    during the storm and flooding caused by Hurricane Sandy on the night of October 29, 2012, one Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid and 16 Fisker Karmas caught fire while being parked at Port Newark-Elizabeth Marine Terminal. The vehicles were partially submerged by flash floods caused by the hurricane…an EV under water can carch fire…..
    ice cars under water don’t catch fire …

    The lithium-ion battery of an i-MiEV caught fire at the Mizushima battery pack assembly plant…….In May 2019 an Outlander caught fire after immersion in salt water

    There have been at least thirty deaths involving incidents of Tesla car fires
    A Tesla Model S caught fire after the vehicle hit debris on a highway……
    a fire broke out in an Irvine, California garage where a Tesla Model S was plugged in and charging….etc..etc..

    a Nissan Leaf caught fire and was destroyed on a road

    a VW ID.3 caught fire while travelling

    a VW e-Golf caught fire in Triangel, Germany.

    a Panamera E-Hybrid that was plugged into a household outlet for charging in Thailand burst into flames.

    a Porsche Taycan burned while parked in a residential garage in Florida

    a fully electric Hyundai Ioniq caught fire in Sehnde-Müllingen, Germany

    a Kona Electric was parked in a residential garage . The owner reported that the car was not plugged in at the time. An unprovoked fire began, and this triggered an explosion that projected the garage door across the street and caused damage to the attached structure.

    an Audi E-Tron Sportback caught fire near a car dealership in Munich, Germany,

    a BMW i3 caught fire in Vorendaal, Netherlands, while conntected to a charging station

    a Renault Zoe EV caught fire in Karmøy, Norway.

    a Fiat 500e crashed into a tree near Schmogrow-Fehrow, Germany, and caught fire.

    a Jaguar I-Pace crashed into a tree and caught fire in Oslo, Norway

    Electric ships
    The Norwegian ferry MF Ytterøyningen operated by Norled was delivered in 2006 and is equipped with a Corvus Orca Energy storage system (ESS) with 1989 kWh capacity. A small fire was reported on October 10, 2019 in the battery room

    a StreetScooter caught fire in a workshop in Trier, Germany,

    • EV caught fire under water

      during the storm and flooding caused by Hurricane Sandy on the night of October 29, 2012, one Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid and 16 Fisker Karmas caught fire while being parked at Port Newark-Elizabeth Marine Terminal. The vehicles were partially submerged by flash floods caused by the hurricane…an EV under water can catch fire…..
      ice cars under water don’t catch fire …

    • I can’t for the life of me remember where it was, but I remember a local news story about an “E bike” battery exploding and taking several units of an apartment complex with it. Hell, when my wife’s phone exploded while charging it was violent enough to embed glass into a white oak dresser 6 feet away….can’t imagine one of these death-mobile batteries.

      • E-bike left on charge blamed after fire engulfs Sydney home

        A fire that engulfed a three-level house in Sydney on Friday was started by an e-bike that was “left on to charge overnight”, according to firefighters.

        More than 20 firefighters were sent to the Darlinghurst terrace to put out the blaze, which threatened seven people and burned through three storeys. Photos released by New South Wales Fire and Rescue showed a charred e-bike.

        A bedroom in the fire-hit home

        In a statement, the fire service said firefighters had arrived on the scene at 6am and found “a three-level terrace well alight”.

        “Fire investigators have deemed the cause of the fire to be an e-bike that was left on charge overnight,” the fire service said. “Thankfully the occupants had a working smoke alarm which alerted them to the fire.”

        Seven people were home at the time, and all were rescued, with two taken to hospital with non-life threatening injuries.

        “Seven residents were home at the time of the incident, four occupants managed to safely self evacuate and two occupants taking refuge on the balcony with one still inside the home,” firefighters said. “Firefighters managed to rescue the remaining three residents from inside the home and extinguish the fire just before 8am.”

        Four people were treated on the scene by paramedics, with two among them taken to hospital for further treatment.

        The fire service has warned the community to be aware of faulty e-bike chargers, damaged battery packs, and said bikes should be charged away from areas where people sleep.

        “Only charge with the genuine manufacturer’s charger, if battery pack is damaged get it repaired by an authorised repairer [and] when possible charge bike away from habitable areas of the home,” it said. “Ensure you always have a working smoke alarm.”

      • Many EV and ebike fires, huge fire danger everywhere now

        lithium fire bomb batteries in ebikes and EV’s are safety nightmare

        Huge cover up of EV fires…..they are trying to push EV’s so they are hiding all the safety problems…

        From another site…..

        Just try talking to the city of toronto about EV fires…….6 have already burnt , the city of sudbury etc . Just because fire fighters , police ,insurance companies ,towing companies and media have gag orders to hide the dangers does not make them safer.

        Consumer Reports found there had been 75 e-bike fires in New York City in 2021 alone, resulting in 72 injuries and three deaths, while the U.K.’s Evening Standard reports there were at least 130 similar battery fires in London last year.

        lower-quality equipment from non-reputable manufacturers or bikes using a mishmash of components are likely culprits.

        “What I’m very concerned about is when a bike comes into this shop for repairs and we can’t ID whose wires they are, whose battery it is, whose motor it is or any of that stuff, and there’s some component on the bike that’s running hot,” he said.

        “You see wires getting raw and just a lot of real problems with them. We’ve actually gotten to a point with some bikes where we’ve just refused services, like that’s not staying in the shop overnight.”

        Portable battery explodes on Ryanair flight – Aug 1, 2018

  5. It doesn’t have to catch fire to kill you….

    Tesla Blames User Error For Car Sealing Off Windows, Suffocating Owner Alive


    “I Need To Get The F*ck Out Of This Car”: Two Separate Teslas Ignite Last Week, One Trapping Driver, One Burning Child’s Car Seat

    Solar flares? The alignment of the planets? Just plain old terrible production quality? What possible explanation could their be for two separate Teslas catching fire within a couple days of each other this weekend?

    In fact, the incidents in question took place so close to each other, that we couldn’t even finish writing about one of the stories before the other one broke – we so combined them into one piece.

    First, it was reported late last week that a blaze in California had been started by a 2019 Tesla Model 3.

    Owner Ediel Ruiz said that after taking a trip in the vehicle, he was greeted with a notification on his phone that his car’s alarm was going off. When he looked outside at the car, it was filled with smoke and flames.

    Ruiz said the first thing to melt was his 4-month-old’s car seat, according to KBAK.

    Then, on Monday morning, it was reported by electrek that an almost brand new Model Y caught fire after powering down while driving. The incident happened last Friday, when the owner was says the car “pushed an error notification and then powered down” before the cabin began filling with smoke.

    He told the fire department: “I had to smash the window to get out of the car. I kicked through the window. Everything stops. The power didn’t work. The door didn’t open. The windows didn’t go down so I’m thinking I need to get the f*ck out of this car so I kicked through.”

    “Oh f*ck there’s the fire,” you can hear someone on the video say. “I swear to God, all of a sudden my car just shut down, it just said ‘error, error, error’, and then all of a sudden the battery started smoking…”

    “It’s going to be interesting to see the results of this investigation,” electrek wrote. To which we ask, what investigation?

    The self-immolation failure mode of Lithium Ion batteries has been known since their very beginning. The intense heat causes the battery to generate its own oxygen so trying to smother the fire doesn’t work.

    nobody will answer this……..What happens when 200 Ev’s are parked in underground parking at an apartment block or office tower and they catch fire? You can’t take propane into underground parking, but you can take a fire bomb lithium battery car underground.

    from zh comments:

    Wait until the fascists force automakers to only make electric vehicles.

    How many people will die when entire apartment buildings are set ablaze at 7,000 degrees?

    instead of blue screen of death you get blue flames of death.

    Tesla’s advertising is all wrong…they need to promote the car itself as well as the money-saving crematoria features of the vehicle…(you really aren’t going to live that much longer, don’t kid yourself).
    Hey! They could give you a free Tesla after your 8th clot shot!

  6. Bring out your dead!

    A comedy of errors that are not that funny.

    The word ‘deadly’ has to be in front of the word ‘killer’, like deadly killer bees or maybe even murder hornets, Murder Teslas, that works too.

    Teslas are deadly, they do kill. Deadly Killer Teslas has more impact, you see just what they are.

    Elon is granted indulgences. Most should be good with that, a few deaths are a tragedy, more than a few, a statistic.

    You are the victim, you need some enhanced interrogation.

    Why were you riding a motorcycle on the highway? The Grand Inquisitor asks the questions, a night in an Iron Maiden will convince you as to who is the boss.

    It is just too bad the self-driving holier-than-thou Tesla EV ran over your sorry worthless hide and you died. Too bad, so sad. You should have known from the get go that you’re in the way, it’s your fault you didn’t know the Tesla was running wild. Real life Mad Max, so there you go.

    You need to be charged with negligent driving and fined, you are riding a motorcycle, which is probably a crime, no wheels for you. Again, it is going to be your fault.

    If you aren’t dead, it will be 90 days in jail, if you make it that far.

    Pharaoh Elon will make the final judgment. Has the solution.

    Deadly Killer Teslas are not the problem, you are, stay off the road and you’ll solve the problem.

    All your fault that Teslas kill.

  7. Wow! Just came here and saw the leading headline article. Just saw a video on YT that covered this same issue just 5 minutes ago. There are now 3 of these deaths, a recent one occurring in Fla.

    • Hi t05,

      Yup. And it’s more than that, actually. The “media” just isn’t reporting it all. NHTSA has received at least a dozen that I am aware of. Some might say that’s not very many. How many exploding Pinto deaths did it take to prompt a massive national recall? But Elon gets a pass because he serves the agenda…

      • Hi Eric

        How to get legal deniability…

        tesla self driving

        Tesla has to recall 830,000 cars after a NHTSA investigation.

        Tesla is still under investigation for a small programming bit whereby the auto pilot is turned off a second before any impact. This apparently gives them legal deniability that said impacts were the result of auto drive feature.

      • Hi Eric

        tesla self driving tech…

        A cheap, make shift, cobbled togerther, binder twine and duct tape solution…lol

        They took a sensor package designed for lane correction and expanded it, against the advice of the company that provided the sensor package, to full automated driving.

        The AI is not yet good enough to handle all the random scenarios.
        We’re a long way off from FSD that Tesla is luring people in with.

  8. Huge cover up of EV fires…..they are trying to push EV’s so they are hiding all the safety problems…

    From another site…..

    Just try talking to the city of toronto about EV fires…….6 have already burnt , the city of sudbury etc . Just because fire fighters , police ,insurance companies ,towing companies and media have gag orders to hide the dangers does not make them safer.

    Ev’s with these lithium fire bomb batteries are high risk to drive around in, higher insurance rates coming…..

    At least you have 3 seconds to get out after the crash…lol
    If you have children strapped into car seats you won’t have time to remove them in an EV crash fire.

    Battery Cars and what you don’t yet know (quoting an engineer):
    As a retired motor industry multi-skilled engineer, consumer consultant to the public and manufacturers, , engine specialist repairer, expert witness for the Courts, I am very well connected. So none of this is guesswork.

    The most common accident is often regarded as the T-Bone collision. Where a vehicle is struck amidships on the “B” pillar, by a vehicle travelling perpendicular to the struck car. That’s why it’s called a “T-Bone” collision. The impact on a petrol and diesel car punches in the door/s, punches in the B pillar, often deforms the roof and….buckles the floor pan.

    In a battery car the main traction battery is usually under that floor. Impacting the battery in such a t-bone collision can fracture the traction battery casing, If the impact, (and bear in mind the battery car is MUCH heavier than an ICE car, so it does not want to be deflected by the side impact), fractures the traction battery AND exposes any Lithium that the battery is constructed from,

    NOTE: and its been raining, you may have as little as three seconds to evacuate the car, before it becomes a high temperature fireball.

    If you have kids in car seats in the back, or the impact deforms the passenger side door/s, you will not save anyone.

    There will be no post-accident “Cutting the roof off” to extract passengers.

    Crash testing? Crash Testing historically has frequently NOT shown up issues that happen in the real world. You are in effect sitting on top of what may be an 800 volt, mattress sized barbeque.

    ATTENTION: Far higher insurance rates coming for EV’s with their lithium fire bomb batteries…
    Insurers are becoming increasing aware of the financial disaster from such an accident, so will be preparing premiums on battery cars as necessary.

    this is another great way to stop mobility….EV fires and other safety issues will make insurance so expensive only the billionaires will drive……..

    Plus, minor accidents that in the past would have been fixed with a pair of doors, new B pillar, floor and roof repair etc, may now involve potential damage to the traction battery that often CANNOT BE SEEN, and the replacement of the battery also may mean that a repairable car becomes a financial catastrophe. Battery replacement costs are from about $22,000 to $30,000. There is a rumored $4500 recycling fee.

    I’m not kidding. You’ll see.
    Battery cars have been chosen out of ignorance and the gullibility of car buyers putting faith in manufacturers that cannot be trusted.
    Actually it is being fueled by the billions of tax payers dollars being thrown at forcing EV’s into the market, a huge windfall for the money grabbers involved. NOTE: 80% of all key EV parts and batteries come from china, why are chinese products being pushed? bribed ccp controlled politicians?

    Lithium fire bomb batteries:

    a battery fire tragically killed two teens in 2018; though they survived the car crash but the teens were killed when the battery caught fire, burning to death in the wrecked vehicle… can’t get out

    Those deaths, despite occurring about four years ago, are relevant because the suit over their deaths just ended, with a Florida court finding Tesla at fault, as NBC News reported,

    A federal jury in Florida has found Tesla negligent in a 2018 crash that killed two teens and found one of the teens 90% responsible for his role in the collision.

    The jury awarded $10.5 million in damages. It was not immediately clear how much of that amount Tesla will be required to pay based on the assignment of responsibility for the crash.

    • Anon1,
      The model s (and possibly other teslas) have electronic door handles inside and out. There is a small hidden manual release handle inside similar to the latches in car trunks. Good luck being dazed by an accident and finding that puny emergency release latch when your electric door handles fritz and the cabin fills with toxic smoke. A literal death trap! Tesla deserves to be sued into oblivion. Gross negligence and callousness.

      • Tesla driver kicks out window to escape car fire

        80% of these batteries come from china = low quality, catch fire….

        Firefighters are investigating the cause of a dangerous fire that briefly trapped a Vancouver-area man inside a Tesla.

        Jamil Jutha said he was driving towards Mountain Highway in North Vancouver at 10 a.m. Friday when the 2021 Model Y that he purchased just eight months ago suddenly shut down and lost power to all the electronic components.

        “The doors wouldn’t open. The windows wouldn’t go down,” Jutha said.

        With toxic smoke beginning to fill the cabin through the air vents, Jutha began to panic and quickly made the decision to break his way out of the car.

        “Of course, there’s always going to be panic in a moment when you feel trapped,” he said. “I kicked through the window, climbed out and called 911 right away.”

        Once safely outside, he asked some construction workers from a nearby job site to help him direct traffic around the burning car because he feared the battery might explode.

        The fire eventually made its way into the interior of the car with visible flames shooting up in the air as the fire department arrived to put it out.

        “We’re very fortunate that this individual had the wherewithal and the strength to kick the window out,” said Chief Brian Hutchinson, with the District of North Vancouver Fire and Rescue Services.

        Fire investigators are set to examine the vehicle on Tuesday to try to determine a cause before handing the wreck over to ICBC.

        Under normal circumstances, the doors on a Tesla Model Y open electronically with the touch of a button.

        There is a mechanical release available for use in an emergency but Jutha said it is not entirely intuitive and can be difficult to figure out in an urgent situation.

        The entire section of the door which has the window control switches on it is actually a lever that lifts up to open the door in situations where the car has lost power.

        Jutha hopes his experience will encourage other Tesla owners to familiarize themselves with the feature before they find themselves in a situation where they really need it.

        Jutha’s car is likely a write-off and he says another Tesla is not on his shortlist as he shops for a replacement.

  9. I have a couple cars that have auto-cruise-control, in that they try and maintain the set speed, just like regular cruise control, but the auto version can slow (and even stop) for cars in front of it, then when the car in front is gone, it accels back to set speed. Pretty good, but what it is not good at is when following a slower car, and you want to pass, you pull out left, and it takes forever to get to the accel part. This is not a problem in low density roads, but is almost unusable in high density roads which is where you want to use it. So your brain starts to figure out the coding/programming, and now when I see a slower car in front I have to attempt to pass way before the computer starts to slow the car.
    I’m wondering if/when more cars are auto-pilot if we mere mortals start to figure out their programing and can use it to our advantage?
    Gonna be fun to figure out, as long as it’s not on a motorcycle!?
    So now if I’m on a bike I’m gonna be very Leary of Tesla’s coming from behind, like stay the hell away from them. We’ll, reality is, when on a bike I instinctively ride slightly faster than all traffic, and now this solidifies that instinct.
    Thanks Eric for educating us once again!

  10. People who ride motorcycles assume extra risk.

    Not saying the Tesla shouldn’t have hit another vehicle, but if you get on a motorcycle then you should expect at some point to assume room temperature.

    No fenders, no protection, so be it.

    Like George Carlin said, “Didn’t your mother tell you to keep your toys in the yard?”

    Sucks that this happened to these motorbike guys, but damn, how about going about your business in a safe way?

    • That’s like saying somebody shouldn’t go for a walk or drive anything but the largest vehicle on the road.
      “Sorry you weren’t able to afford a 10,000 lb hummer EV, you deserved to get creamed.”

    • Hi James,

      No question that riding a bike entails assuming risk. That said, it does not confer license to run over bikers, as these Teslas did. That was (my view) a case of outright criminal negligence – on both Tesla and the “driver’s” part. Acts of god, actual accidents are a different matter.

      • No question. I’m guessing the largest percentage of car to motorcycle accidents is the car turning left in front of the bike. Hard to counter it’s so fast. Second is probably self-inflicted, failing to navigate a corner correctly (too fast, poor skills, etc…).
        But a allowing a computer to hurt/main/kill a motorcyclist is tantamount to extreme negligence, and potential manslaughter (if died).

    • James,
      In this case, the only “extra risk” taken was not noticing they were sharing the road with a Tesla. Having already assumed the “ordinary risk” of being severely outweighed by cars, and allowing for it.

  11. Even if I were on the Tesla bandwagon (as an aside, I thought Tesla the band sucked hard as well), I would never trust the “autopilot” feature as far as I could throw the thing based on the behavior of my wife’s Roomba. I expend more calories rescuing the damn thing from the clutches of furniture (or my shoelaces) than I would vacuuming the house manually (honestly it’s only redeeming quality is watching it terrorize the cat). Either the one she bought is an idiot, or the techno-dweebs haven’t quite perfected the system….wonder which one it is?

  12. Eric, this is a good one that needs your attention, lol.

    “A Canadian Tesla owner claims that after the battery on his $140,000 car died, the automaker told him a replacement would cost $26,000 and locked him out of the vehicle until he pays for a new one.”

    lolrofl “locked him out of “his” car. Whose car? His car. LOL

    “Fox Business reports that Mario Zelaya, a Canadian Tesla owner, posted a video to TikTok recently stating that his “piece of trash” car died and that the car is locked, stopping him from even entering the vehicle”

    My $500 Geo Metro never locks me out.

  13. I wonder if charging the company with accessory to murder would work. They claim it works and advertises it as such and as Elon is the head of the company and spokesman he should be charged. He makes the money so maybe he should do the time.

    • Boeing got sued for their lousy MCAS anti-stall device when it was found to be the culprit that caused two fatal crashes. There was a poorly designed sensor that forced the aircraft into a nosedive because the MCAS thought the aircraft was about to enter a stall. The scenereo is a little different because the aircraft became uncontrollable once the MCAS started taking action but I could see Tesla owners forming a class action against the company since even my 2016 Jeep smart cruise control sees motorcycles. If nothing else the NHTSA (what the hell are we paying taxes for after all?) should issue a recall and force Tesla to deactiviate the autopilot until it can be proven safe.

    • You might be interested in the book “The Singularity Is Near”, by Ray Kurzweil. I had to slug through the first, 1/4 of the book. But, the rest got real interesting. Kurzweil firmly believed man could and would merge with machines in the not-to-distant future, and live forever. He did bring up the interesting, unanswered question of what happens to ones soul and spirit with such a transformation. The book is quite an interesting read, and gives you insight as to what these people are thinking.

      • Kurziel has a lot of disciples in the Davos crowd. And why not? A lot of them are tuned into tech and silly-con valley, so they are going to be open to the idea. And they all read William Gibson so they can imagine a not-so-distant future where someone can backup their soul into an Amazon S3 Glacier. Now that I remember that, it is that’s likely why they called it the Glacier, because in Neuromancer the protagonist had part of his brain “put on ice” so he could courier more data.

  14. I am amazed that Tesla continues to get a pass from the saaaaaafety cult. They’ve probably killed more people than the Ford Pinto with its exploding gas tank yet Ford got pilloried and Tesla skates. Hopefully someday soon Eloon’s teflon will wear off and he’ll be held accountable for his weaseling. Not holding my breath.

    • Safety wasn’t invented until the late 1960s, by the usual suspects, for the usual reasons.

      It’s not about safety, it’s about furthering an agenda. As usual.

      Seen through that lens, it’s no surprise at all.

      • The “Environment” was also invented at about the same time, by the same people, for the same reasons.

        It’s just another club, to beat you over the head with.

  15. “advising “pilots” to always be “ready to intervene.”
    One cannot be ready to “intervene” unless they are engaged in the same diligence required to actually drive the car. May not have to keep their hands on the wheel, but must keep them quite close to it, and keep their heads on a swivel, just like a real driver. It’s a convenience, not a substitute. Tesla be damned for implying otherwise.
    Sometimes I think the EV charade might not be a control mechanism, but a part of the de-population mechanism. Maybe both? Given centralized control, one with a poor social credit score could find their “autopilot” car going far too fast, and running into a massive stationary object.

  16. I’m one of the lead engineers at a big company’s self driving division, but I’d rather not say which one right now. I see comments here about programming or cameras being insufficient or computers being binary logic and not thinking. That’s not the main issue with safety problems, those will eventually be fixed. The main issue is that people intentionally overlook problems and ship products powered by wishful thinking.

    Cameras today aren’t as good as human eyes. They can see more “pixels”, so have sharper vision, but they’re not as good at contrast and are very sensitive to things like dust on the lens or glare. Radar sees in all conditions, but very inaccurately, though it is good at measuring relative speed to things. Lidar is very precise, and provides direct measurement of distances to things in the world. The cars that I work on have all three of these sensor types. What the computer has, as input, is video streams from multiple cameras, radar readings to nearby targets, and lidar point clouds to everything within range.

    The problem the programming must now solve is to figure out meaning from all these signals. Camera feeds are pictures, and you need to run perception algorithms on them to extract meaning. Lidar point clouds need to be correlated against the pictures, and radar is used to identify imminent danger that the other two missed, which is rare, but possible. Between these three sensor types, we’re not going to crash, but we may panic brake when we don’t need to. Lidar and Radar directly measure distance and relative speed to objects, even motorcyclists.

    Tesla has chosen to use video, and nothing else. Their cars have no direct way of measuring the distance and relative speed to objects around them, so the must infer it from video. This is the fundamental problem; video based perception is still a research problem, it’s not entirely solved and not ready for a safety critical system. Tesla has chosen to ship it anyway, thinking they’ll keep making it better over time.

    Perception is done via neural networks these days, which are often called AI or machine learning. The way you train a neural network is that you feed it millions of scenarios which are known (like, here’s a video frame with a motorcycle, pedestrians, cars) and reward it for correctly figuring out the scenario. You feed it scenarios which were labeled by humans, but you only have so many of those since humans had to make them, and you generate billions or trillions of synthetic scenarios which are also used to teach it. Once this process is done, you hope that it has generalized correctly, but you can never prove it. Furthermore, a neural network is only as good as the data used to teach it. If you didn’t teach it that a flatbed can be used to transport stop signs, for example, it will go bonkers driving behind one, like this:

    We need to figure out how to teach neural networks like living beings learn, in that we have multi layered intelligence, not some giant neural net which is trained on trillions of scenarios. Tesla is actually using their customers’ interventions into their autopilot’s mistakes to train it!

    • OppositeLock that’s very interesting. I wonder if you’ve seen the Skydio 2 drone? It uses a six camera vision system to avoid obstacles. The preflight checklist includes a step to wipe down all the cameras. Every time, every takeoff. It will only fly in daylight, and even civil twilight is probably not going to be enough. I can attest it is pretty amazing how well it will dodge and weave around just about anything. But along wires and bare tree branches the vision system breaks down. First question I asked was will it avoid birds… of course not. As incredible as it is, you still have to manually fly the drone out of many situations.

      The “Enterprise” software will do things like reduce the safety bubble around the aircraft from 1 meter to about 5 CM, and open up different automated tasks. Some of the tasks will allow it to fly very close to iron and steel structures, something most drones can’t do because they use electronic compasses and GPS for positioning, while Skydio only relies on the vision system to determine location. The Skydio claims to be able to return to home based on vision only, but it is often off by a foot or more from the takeoff point. Not a big deal (and it can detect a home point symbol on the case once a landing is initiated), but not as absolutely accurate as the traditional GPS based waypoint logging.

    • How to get legal deniability…

      tesla self driving

      Tesla has to recall 830,000 cars after a NHTSA investigation.

      ATTENTION: Tesla is still under investigation for a small programming bit whereby the auto pilot is turned off a second before any impact.

      This apparently gives them legal deniability that said impacts were the result of auto drive feature.

  17. The term “autopilot” comes from aviation of course. Planes “fly themselves,” except they don’t. They are able to do most of the tasks that involve flight, in a big, uncrowded and micromanaged airspace. They can fly themselves because the mission is tightly focused and controlled. Pilots must file flight plans with the FAA tha take into account weather, anticipate mechanical problems, and fuel consumption. Take off from airport A using runway 10 L. Climb (at an exact rate and speed) to cruise altitude. Follow defined airways, following long ago mapped out naviads (beacons). Land at airport B, again using a well-defined glide slope on runways that are tightly monitored and controlled. At any point the ATC system can override the flightplan (as can the pilot, if it is determined to be necessary, and might have to answer to FSDO after landing).

    And even then, there’s a human being in the loop. The Pilot in Command is responsible for the aircraft. Not the autopilot manufacturer, not the avonics tech, not Boeing, not the airline. The PIC. It is the pilot’s duty to take over if the autopilot is acting oddly. Pilots are trained to maintain situational awareness and flight management, even when bored.

    The majority of people don’t know how to drive. Hell, most people can’t understand that you don’t have to scream into the phone. Add to that the fact that most people DON’T WANT TO DRIVE, they want the freedom to travel inexpensively and personally, which means by automobile. With freedom comes responsibility, something that the general population seems to have forgotten, or never learned. People should be trained to drive in a way that would be more in line with the task at hand. This isn’t impossible but it does mean that there will be people who won’t ever be able to drive. That’s OK, as long as there are alternatives. But cars are more than transportation, they encapsulate the wants and desires of egalitarian societies. So the more people driving, the better it is for society. At least that’s how it has been for the last 150 years or so.

    • Aircraft autopilot these days very sophisticated, when all is well it greatly reduces pilot workload and is able to maintain a very stable flight at cruising speed. Our commercial pilot friend had the autopilot “act up” mid flight, had to fly manual mode for about two hours, constant inputs to stay on track, he was not thrilled.

      My current motorcycle has automotive type cruise, it works great and once set I like that it’s one less thing to concentrate on, my attention is fully on the road and possible threats since I’m not glancing at the speedo and working the throttle constantly.

      Same pilot friend has a Tesla, he was showing me auto drive, we had a good laugh as we headed west into the sun – it had just rained and the road surface glare totally hosed the auto drive, it started darting left and right he quickly turned it off.

    • One touch on the controls of a Boeing aircraft told the pilot all he needed to know about the mechanical/electronic condition of the aircraft.

      All systems in working order. No need to worry.

      Elrey Jeppesen is the pilot who developed the system, the ‘little black box.’

      The Jeppesen Terminal at DIA has a display that features Jeppesen’s accomplishments.

      You have had to be there to know.

  18. ‘Teslas facilitate the evaporation-dissipation of moral agency.’ — eric

    An entire generation of Silicon Valley startups was defined by Mark Zuckerberg’s quip, “move fast and break things.” Plenty of articles by earnest scribblers earnestly inform us that this Wild West era is over. But obviously, in Musk’s case, it is not.

    Musk takes an extremely casual view of regulatory constraints, assuming he can mold them to his will. If Tesla gets busted and faces liability, it’s the corporation that pays, not Musk himself.

    Does this sound hubristic? Ask Zuck — META (formerly Facebook) stock is down 60 percent from 12 months ago.

    TSLA has fared better, off only 26 percent from its 12-month high, purportedly leaving Musk still the world’s richest lifeform. But the auto market is cruising for a bruising, as recession looms and discretionary buyers hunker down. Even gov-sponsored and subsidized EeeVees will feel the pressure.

    Ultimately, EeeVee-pimping central planners will smack the wall, hard, because they just aren’t smart enough to foresee all the downstream consequences of attempting to replace semi-free trade in autos with top-down mandates: buyers that don’t want and can’t afford them; lithium mines without enough capacity; electric grids without enough capacity; and on and on.

    As the Great Obama might have said, “You couldn’t build that.

    • Ultra-low interest rates cause R&D to dry up in favor of stock market games. The amount of money that went into “web 2.0” unicorns since 2008 has been staggering, but the ideas were mostly pretty terrible. Uber is a great example. Uber knew they were going to lose money as long as they had to pay employees. So they didn’t, they just called it “ride sharing” and made everyone an independent contractor. Then Uber convinced everyone that self-driving vehicles are less than 5 years away, and kept burning money. When drivers started gaming the system (actually playing along), they brought out the lobbyists and greased the palms and did whatever they had to in order to destroy the taxi service industry. But they didn’t innovate, they just skirted the existing regulatory envoiroment with a loophole. That loophole is closing as regulations are introduced at the local level. Same thing is now happening with Air BNB, local ordinances are starting to limit numbers and charge room taxes. Only a matter of time before any advantage these 2.0 companies had is gone, or likely made worse.

      • You raise an interesting point.

        Since 2008, there has been an explosion of, for lack of a better word, tech companies that don’t really make or sell technology.

        Now there are actual tech companies like Microsoft, IBM, Dell, Apple, Intel, Adobe, and others that make and sell actual hardware and/or software. But “tech” companies like Uber, AirBNB, Doordash, and Amazon basically moved what are lousy, low-paying jobs, like driving a cab, delivering pizza, working in mailrooms, and stocking goods in warehouses to a technology platform, namely an app, and thus call themselves “tech companies.”

        The tough job market of the last 10 years meant that people resorted to being “gig economy workers” on these platforms. What’s more, many of these “tech companies” have yet to earn dollar one.

        But with interest rates rising and a tight labor market due a lot to structural demographics, their business models might not work…

    • You’re correct that “buyers don’t want and can’t afford” EeeeeVeeees (unlike real cars; I just read that the final run, for 2023, of 2200 Chrysler 300c v8 Hemis sold out in half a day- of course, they’ll axe it anyway) . But I seriously doubt that’s going to stop the regulators. What wall are they going to hit? There aren’t any consequences, to them, for their actions. How is it going to effect Pete bootybootygaygay, for instance, other than to give him something to brag about at whatever fudge packing parties he goes to?
      Let the peons eat cake (and drive teslas)!

  19. Computers work on on/off, yes/no binary status.

    They do not “interpret”, they do not “think”.

    They only do what they have been told.

    The idea of AI as a thinking human substitute is cool sci-fi, but not how it really works.

    Never give your responsibilities to a computer.


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